HP Boost Killing BG RvR - Phoenix Freeshard

The HP boost has ruined Alb and Hib BG rvr, Please look how active the Alb BG rvr was before and after the HP boost, Now with zero relics and very unlikely to regain especially prime time. It is now a dead realm, soon the Hib realm is to follow and the server will slowly die off. Most Hib players I know have moved to Mid or planning to move, (myself included) it's impossible to play the game prime time vs Mids BG because caster realms dps vs a tank train BG is like hitting a brick wall.
I even had to start playing my mana Eld for the aoe snare and s/c debuff to try and balance the odds, sadly its still stacked against us.

Three things the server needs to address for improvement

1 HP boost
2 GTaoe
3 realm switch timer (too low)

Thu 23 Jan 2020 9:43 AM by Sepplord

Not saying you are completely wrong or don't have any point at all, that's a really complicated discussion.

but it is a bit ironic that you claim

it's impossible to play the game prime time vs Mids BG because caster realms dps vs a tank train BG is like hitting a brick wall

and your solution is to

start playing my mana Eld for the aoe snare and

If i take the first part as true, then my conclusion would be to start playing a melee not another caster.

Casters are heavily advantaged in sieges, so it makes sense that melees are advantaged in open field. A balanced setup will always beat both in a zerg-setting though imo

Thu 23 Jan 2020 10:43 AM by MacPrior

I mean, the Problem is - there are actually not enough interesting fights anymore.

Each fight is more or less - TWF-TWF--Icor-Static-wipe. Besides of that , the activity in RvR is very different in 3 realms. Just yesterday the Alb Zerg consisting of 3 groups tried to do anything against 10 groups Zerg of Mids and Hibs in the same counter.

Huge advantage of NF - a possibility to have strategic different fights on keeps is is completely destroyed by those WOW-Like RAs - you push one button and dealing half of minute strong CC and high damage in area.

On Live Server each realm was able to defend a part of keep - lord room, oil ground, one of the keep towers for very long time which was very funny for both parts - for the defender and for the invader.

Additional, the ability to climb the walls is a big love for Midgard due to 2 classes which are able to climb - Berzerk and Savage, which are in the same time the main damage dealer of the realm and most popular classes. In Albion and in Hibernia are light tanks not so common and less popular then these in Midgard.

You can't effective defend a tower anymore - the oil stage is fully light tanks and roof is full of different fields. Actually, the same situation is with Keep, where additional some seage weapons dealing unrealistic enormous AE damage.

Besides of that every Realm are different and have had specialised on own strategy. Albions main feature was a long range damage and rupt with the kiting fights is destroyed by RA abilities I called former - twf, statics, ichor. Unique Hibi thing was an ability to stun by each caster now is no more such unique midgard additional to healer stun and ae stun has access to static too.

And the ever problem of Albion - in order to be competitive and have appropriate abilities in Group - resis, damage add and haste, heal, speed, mezz - you will need 6 classes in group, if you take the pala for endu - even 7 - cleri, cleri, friar, thergi, sorc, mins, (pala) . It leaves 1 (!) room for DPs class. In Mid you will need just 4 charakters for support - helaer, healer, shami, skald, so Mids have 4 spaces for DPs, Hibs still need just 2 Druids and Bard - all other rooms (5) in a group are flexible to use.

I would highly welcome the changes of those RSa or even deactivating of them all. I hope this will offer more fun in the keep and in the open field fights again for all 3 realms.

Thu 23 Jan 2020 10:51 AM by Hector

The problem is the zerg with the most players usually wins, and its usually mid. Before, a well oiled 8v8 group could try to take on and kite out a zerg. Now you got rank 10 tank zerg blowing every active RA in the game to kill 8 players. It's as much a NF RA problem as much as it is an HP change problem.

Thu 23 Jan 2020 4:24 PM by Enyore

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Jan 2020 9:43 AM
Casters are heavily advantaged in sieges, so it makes sense that melees are advantaged in open field. A balanced setup will always beat both in a zerg-setting though imo

Actually i would semi-disagree to this otherwise obvious statement.... this is only true up until a certain point.
At least during EU prime time the zergs have gotten so big that this is no longer the case.

When it gets to higher numbers tanks will swarm the ramparts of towers and 2 x catas will close down the roof.
In keeps currently so many catapults are deployed that casters simply do not have a chance to survive on the walls for long.

Fri 24 Jan 2020 9:39 AM by Wolfir666

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Jan 2020 10:43 AM
Additional, the ability to climb the walls is a big love for Midgard due to 2 classes which are able to climb - Berzerk and Savage, which are in the same time the main damage dealer of the realm and most popular classes. In Albion and in Hibernia are light tanks not so common and less popular then these in Midgard.

Actually i disagree on that one for three simple reasons:
1) Those that prefer playing zerk, do not play savage, and those that play savage, dont play zerk. Both classes are fairly similar in their impact, so if one of them couldn't climb, there simply would be more of the other one around. That makes your statement kinda obsolete.

2) Albion also has two zerg-climber-classes, you forgot about the Minstrels.. and don't tell me, there wouldn't be enough Minstrels around to support climbing Mercs

Apart from that ofc each realm got the assassins anyways, which also climb walls in sieges, just usually outside of groups.

3) Blademasters and Mercs both can switch/slam shield, what zerk/savage can't do. And yes, Zerk/Savage-players would like to be able to do that too, but no, not for Midgard

So i highly doubt, that the other realms light-tanks are "less popular".

Hibs still need just 2 Druids and Bard - all other rooms (5) in a group are flexible to use.

You forgot about the Warden for resists too, so Hib is around the same as Mid there, 4 Spots needed, 4 spots available depending on group-layout.

Other than that, in general i anyways disagree with the main post for the sake of the header.

HP-Boost is not killing Zerg-RvR.
If that statement was true, then why not simply play more Melee-Classes in Zerging?
It's not, as if there weren't enough Melees in each realms, you know, but of course most people prefer going Caster or Wallclimber also in a Zerg. For obvious reasons.

Personally i think it really is because of the high usage of AE-RAs like TWF, Static, Ichor.
Midgard admittedly also got two AE-Skills, that others don't have, that are more useful in Zerg as well (AE-Stun, Thane-Mjollnir).
And yes, you might say "why Mjollnir", but together with Static that makes a Thane a very useful Class in Zergs, as its basically a Caster in a Chain-Armor.

Edit:

And GTAoE itself doesn't need much addressing, as it's working as it is supposed to work.
It just gets nasty with ~10++ GTAE-Casters around, where you of course can have a Groundtarget fairly spread around in Inner keeps.
On the other hand, if the other realm had around that much GTAE-Casters as well, they also could place GTAE-Targets outside the keep, near the walls, around the gate, whereever enemies are standing. Could as well use a tank to set the target, and all groundassist him.
And yes, you can also cast GTAE from inside a sieged keep, i did that often myself. There always are locations, where no groundtarget is set.

Fri 24 Jan 2020 1:43 PM by jhaerik

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Jan 2020 10:43 AM
I mean, the Problem is - there are actually not enough interesting fights anymore.

Each fight is more or less - TWF-TWF--Icor-Static-wipe. Besides of that , the activity in RvR is very different in 3 realms. Just yesterday the Alb Zerg consisting of 3 groups tried to do anything against 10 groups Zerg of Mids and Hibs in the same counter.

Huge advantage of NF - a possibility to have strategic different fights on keeps is is completely destroyed by those WOW-Like RAs - you push one button and dealing half of minute strong CC and high damage in area.

On Live Server each realm was able to defend a part of keep - lord room, oil ground, one of the keep towers for very long time which was very funny for both parts - for the defender and for the invader.

Additional, the ability to climb the walls is a big love for Midgard due to 2 classes which are able to climb - Berzerk and Savage, which are in the same time the main damage dealer of the realm and most popular classes. In Albion and in Hibernia are light tanks not so common and less popular then these in Midgard.

You can't effective defend a tower anymore - the oil stage is fully light tanks and roof is full of different fields. Actually, the same situation is with Keep, where additional some seage weapons dealing unrealistic enormous AE damage.

Besides of that every Realm are different and have had specialised on own strategy. Albions main feature was a long range damage and rupt with the kiting fights is destroyed by RA abilities I called former - twf, statics, ichor. Unique Hibi thing was an ability to stun by each caster now is no more such unique midgard additional to healer stun and ae stun has access to static too.

And the ever problem of Albion - in order to be competitive and have appropriate abilities in Group - resis, damage add and haste, heal, speed, mezz - you will need 6 classes in group, if you take the pala for endu - even 7 - cleri, cleri, friar, thergi, sorc, mins, (pala) . It leaves 1 (!) room for DPs class. In Mid you will need just 4 charakters for support - helaer, healer, shami, skald, so Mids have 4 spaces for DPs, Hibs still need just 2 Druids and Bard - all other rooms (5) in a group are flexible to use.

I would highly welcome the changes of those RSa or even deactivating of them all. I hope this will offer more fun in the keep and in the open field fights again for all 3 realms.

From my experience with Albion you end up with less players simply because you refuses to run any other group comps. So all the people that want to run Reavers/Paladins/Mercs/Arms/Necros/Wizards ect just reroll over to Mid and play Thanes/Savages/Zerks//Warriors/Bone Dancers/Runies. Meanwhile people in Alb do nothing but complain about being outnumbered... See the problem? Albion has ALWAYS had this mind set where they refuse to run anything other than Body Debuff LT spamming kiters. There is nothing stopping you from running melee comps, and don't give me that crap about Mini's... just because they are too lazy to both keep their OP pet and speed going.

Also you guys seems hard focuses on 8mans.. and seem to miss that you can run multiple groups.... and there only needs to be a single sorc for Mez in that entire mix. You CAN run melee groups... you just choose not to... you you purposely alienate a large part of the player base, and wonder why people reroll.

Fri 24 Jan 2020 2:50 PM by Tigin

personally my humble idea to boost HP s for every class for an additional 50% ....

we always want to do our stuff use our class abilities .... after a point in the past ; game fights become like jetfights last way short that noone can fully use their abilities on field ... after that, game become like a RP earning job, not a playing realistic middle/dark age game .

Fri 24 Jan 2020 9:35 PM by Wolfir666

Tigin wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jan 2020 2:50 PM
personally my humble idea to boost HP s for every class for an additional 50% ....

we always want to do our stuff use our class abilities .... after a point in the past ; game fights become like jetfights last way short that noone can fully use their abilities on field ... after that, game become like a RP earning job, not a playing realistic middle/dark age game .

uhm.. you realize, that every %-increase will make the gap between high-hp and low-hp-classes larger, yes?
So %-increases in general lead to tanks that get more fat in hp, while casters hp doesnt change all too much by itself.

Of course it really might be funny, to sometime in future watch "realistic middle/dark age" action, where you only see melees battling each other for 10-15min, while most casters would just reroll melees as well... but uhm.. no, let's make an event for that (that actually even might be fun!!), but other than that, just no. ^^

Sat 25 Jan 2020 3:43 PM by Tigin

please do not miss the point and get drowned in details ....
point is having more fight time then running buffing looking for enemy ....
casters can still kill melee with less hit than melee kills casters .... (this is just my impression and can be discussed. we need some certain test data that others cannot speculate )

also a hp boost for every class ( can be different amount for different classes) ppl will survive longer on battle field so they can fight longer that is my point .. i dont care if classes get % to hp or straight a certain amount HP ....

We shd check how much dmg output a caster have in a certain time against a melee and of course opposite ( how much dmg output a melee has at the same time against a caster)

giving more hp to all but keeping dmg output same can boost game fun for most.

u can /dance /rude /beg or hit some of em while kept solo to a FG , you have something u can do instead of dying in 4 sec .
dying while zoning to poc to a camped ani grp will be history prolly too ( which is kinda abuse for most players )

my2c regards

Sat 25 Jan 2020 5:36 PM by Lipsi

Tigin wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jan 2020 3:43 PM
casters can still kill melee with less hit than melee kills casters .... (this is just my impression and can be discussed. we need some certain test data that others cannot speculate )

also a hp boost for every class ( can be different amount for different classes) ppl will survive longer on battle field so they can fight longer that is my point .. i dont care if classes get % to hp or straight a certain amount HP ....

We shd check how much dmg output a caster have in a certain time against a melee and of course opposite ( how much dmg output a melee has at the same time against a caster)

Wy not speculate, we already got some feedback from the previous HP boost

1/ let's consider a melee (zerk, savage) that hits for 300 per swing (2h or dual h) who had 1800 hp before and 2300 hp after
and a caster for 260 per spell, who had 1200 hp before and 1500 after.

before hp boost it was 5 hits for the melee to kill cloth (1 for bubble + 4 for HP) and 7 nukes for the mage to kill melee and that was balanced. Both standed a chance.
after hp boost, melee will kill caster in 6 hits (1 for bubble + 5 for HP), while caster now needs 10 nukes (9+1 for the 10% spells that get totally resisted).
Put in other terms, that means relative dps of melee was nerfed by 20% while that of caster was nerfed by 40% while his bubble absorption was decreased from 20% to 16%.

2/ now, let's assume we give a flat 10.000 hp buff to both mages and melee for surviving longer in battle field (we agree that giving a boost like what we already had just increased at best the fight duration by a couple swings or nukes i.e. 2 or 3 seconds)
What will happen now with 10K hp increase for all ? (of course it is the same if you reduce that number, but that makes it more clear like that)
- ppl will survive longer in battle field (even the caster) : can take an extra 33 swings to get killed for the caster and an extra 38 nukes to get down the melee
- melee can fight longer, have more fun
BUT
- caster still get only 1 bubble, not a pulsing one every 5-6 swings he gets hit
- caster get only 1 extra QC (after the 20th melee swing = 30 seconds), so has 2 QC instead of 1
- caster still get only 1 CC (cc immunity will still run through almost the entire fight) to get away from melee range or may be get 1 extra CC if immunity fades
.. and what are doing casters when they have a melee on them, with burnt QC and CC ? nothing, certainly not dps, nor fun.
So while the melee toon will have 5x more time to unleash its dps, hence 500% damage output boost, caster will have just 1 extra nuke so just a 10% damage output boost.
Even if you give him a bubble that acts as a reactive proc with a 16-20% chance, even if you give him for free uninterruptible anytime cast (not 1 QC every now and then, but permanent MOC 100%), eventually, he will run out of mana while the tank continues to hit with endless stamina.

If the fights are made that short in DAOC it is not because it's a part of the balance but because it is the founding condition of it being balanced between melee and casters. A caster to stand a chance against a melee has to be able to kill a light tank (merc, savage, zerk) in the time it takes for that tank to get to melee range, modulo 1 CC and 1 QC and the extra odd that gives one or the other one resist/miss. It is then all about reaction time, good positionning, staying unnoticed, target choice, etc.

Since nuke range cannot be extended a lot (view and clipping distance, landscape obstacles), the only way if you want to have longer lasting fights without breaking that balance, is to reduce movement speed in combat of the same % that you increase the HP.
Or if you focus more on the delays between fights, to reduce map size and/or increase movement speed out of combat and/or increase population.

That's why OP (Nidd) is right and his move to switch to aoe snare + sc debuff totally coherent and the best attempt one could make to bring back a bit of balance.

Sat 25 Jan 2020 9:46 PM by Tigin

@Lipsi Great input mate ...

Sun 26 Jan 2020 12:16 AM by Riac

with any luck itll kill the zerg all together

Sun 26 Jan 2020 12:47 AM by Lipsi

Tigin wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jan 2020 9:46 PM
@Lipsi Great input mate ...

Thanks, last thing i could say, if your concern was initially to get enough time to use all your toys (tools, RAs, etc), may be use them to get an advantage even tho it isn't absolutely required and the perfect timing, after all; better die with all RAs down in 5 seconds, than die in 4 seconds and be sorry that you didn't use them ^^

Tho i like your vision of the ratio of time spent between fights(looking for fights) and the actual fight duration, but instead of breaking all game with a HP boost, may be just reduce travel time (more porters, more hasteners, faster out of combat speed) and may be reset RA timers when you /release (because many people want to go to fight with all their RA up and waiting AFK 15 minutes at TP or keep doors doesn't help to meet active opponents either).

Sun 26 Jan 2020 2:39 AM by kedelin

The game is not broken with more hps... actually made it playable... no I don't zerg but before any three casters from any realm would 1 round all but heavy tanks... the problem is in there is no rig in dmg table like live has is set at average

Sun 26 Jan 2020 9:08 AM by Lipsi

kedelin wrote: ↑
Sun 26 Jan 2020 2:39 AM
The game is not broken with more hps... actually made it playable... no I don't zerg but before any three casters from any realm would 1 round all but heavy tanks... the problem is in there is no rig in dmg table like live has is set at average

You mean you could deal 1600+ with a single nuke with any caster ? sorry but this is just totally false and misleading.
The figures that i threw are real figures, of RR5 toons templated and buffed with combined forces potion.
Where i can agree is on 3 assisting casters together with good resist debuff could certainly 1 round a caster and 2 round all but heavy tanks, as well as 3 melee dps would 1 or 2 round any cloth character. more hp actually didn't change the unbalance when you are 3v1 and there is no reason it would have))

Sun 26 Jan 2020 12:53 PM by Tritri

Wolfir666 wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jan 2020 9:39 AM
Actually i disagree on that one for three simple reasons:
1) Those that prefer playing zerk, do not play savage, and those that play savage, dont play zerk. Both classes are fairly similar in their impact, so if one of them couldn't climb, there simply would be more of the other one around. That makes your statement kinda obsolete.

2) Albion also has two zerg-climber-classes, you forgot about the Minstrels.. and don't tell me, there wouldn't be enough Minstrels around to support climbing Mercs
Apart from that ofc each realm got the assassins anyways, which also climb walls in sieges, just usually outside of groups.

3) Blademasters and Mercs both can switch/slam shield, what zerk/savage can't do. And yes, Zerk/Savage-players would like to be able to do that too, but no, not for Midgard So i highly doubt, that the other realms light-tanks are "less popular".

Hibs still need just 2 Druids and Bard - all other rooms (5) in a group are flexible to use.

You forgot about the Warden for resists too, so Hib is around the same as Mid there, 4 Spots needed, 4 spots available depending on group-layout.

Other than that, in general i anyways disagree with the main post for the sake of the header.

HP-Boost is not killing Zerg-RvR.
If that statement was true, then why not simply play more Melee-Classes in Zerging?
It's not, as if there weren't enough Melees in each realms, you know, but of course most people prefer going Caster or Wallclimber also in a Zerg. For obvious reasons.

Personally i think it really is because of the high usage of AE-RAs like TWF, Static, Ichor.
Midgard admittedly also got two AE-Skills, that others don't have, that are more useful in Zerg as well (AE-Stun, Thane-Mjollnir).
And yes, you might say "why Mjollnir", but together with Static that makes a Thane a very useful Class in Zergs, as its basically a Caster in a Chain-Armor.

Edit:

And GTAoE itself doesn't need much addressing, as it's working as it is supposed to work.
It just gets nasty with ~10++ GTAE-Casters around, where you of course can have a Groundtarget fairly spread around in Inner keeps.
On the other hand, if the other realm had around that much GTAE-Casters as well, they also could place GTAE-Targets outside the keep, near the walls, around the gate, whereever enemies are standing. Could as well use a tank to set the target, and all groundassist him.
And yes, you can also cast GTAE from inside a sieged keep, i did that often myself. There always are locations, where no groundtarget is set.

Ouch.... so.... few things

There are more zerk and savage than blademaster and mercenaries... merc is like the fifth least played class of the server lol (you can check regularly use /serverinfo btw)
right now there is 18 zerk + 10 savage against 18 bm and 11 mercenaries (and it's level up time at this time of the day)
Also that's an other point : people don't reroll too much bm / mercenaries because they are quite hard to lvl up and need 5L before being a bit usefull, so it's a huge investment for someone that isn't necessary fond of melee class, because people that are fond of these classes usually go mid

And hib don't need warden, at all... it's nice to have one, but it's quite a rare class and hib can play without it with no issues.
Saying you need warden for resist is like saying alb need friar for resist

Mon 27 Jan 2020 11:40 AM by jhaerik

Lipsi wrote: ↑
Sun 26 Jan 2020 9:08 AM
kedelin wrote: ↑
Sun 26 Jan 2020 2:39 AM
The game is not broken with more hps... actually made it playable... no I don't zerg but before any three casters from any realm would 1 round all but heavy tanks... the problem is in there is no rig in dmg table like live has is set at average

You mean you could deal 1600+ with a single nuke with any caster ? sorry but this is just totally false and misleading.
The figures that i threw are real figures, of RR5 toons templated and buffed with combined forces potion.
Where i can agree is on 3 assisting casters together with good resist debuff could certainly 1 round a caster and 2 round all but heavy tanks, as well as 3 melee dps would 1 or 2 round any cloth character. more hp actually didn't change the unbalance when you are 3v1 and there is no reason it would have))

Except DAoC has always had an issue where organized caster debuff groups are just bullshit to fight. With some peels and CC even through Det they can drop a melee to the ground every 1.5-2 seconds or so.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 9:02 AM by lolmatron

Nidd wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jan 2020 10:32 PM
The HP boost has ruined Alb and Hib BG rvr

lets all reroll mid and join the train. strength in numbers! or: when in doubt send in the marines

solution is simple: hib and alb just needs to run 2-3grps fully optimized for walls and pushing. 3-4support (depending on RR ofc) and 3-4climbers 1heavy tank. Just like them mids do.. troll bus assist will melt anything in seconds.. and if you have 2-3 of those trains rushing in it will be hard to counter. no matter HP...

example for hib: bard drood warden hero bm bm bm/drood NS(disease on target)
example of alb: friar cleric minstrel pala/reaver merc merc merc merc/cleric
pretty much copies the push grps of mid, less utility due to healer+shaman - which are OP due to class-skills combined with RAs.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 9:31 AM by Razur Ur

Debuff Caster need nerf on this Server, this caster Meta is to strong and the hp buff was not alone the solution.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 11:57 AM by opossum12

If the issue is that Mids are running more tanks than alb and hib, why doesn't hib and alb run more tanks to compensate?

A hib tank oriented group is way stronger than a mid tank group, and alb tanks aren't bad either. Reavers with twf and their spells are pretty decent in BGs, arms are tough, pallys are sokid aswell.

The hp health pool changed that non-debuffing caster trains can't drop tanks as easily as before, but you still need a bit of coordination to rapidly kill things, whoch should be a good thing, no?

Fri 31 Jan 2020 12:34 PM by Freedomcall

People all whine about number of the mid zerg, and this is also true, but you know what?
Many mid zerg use public discord. Giosakis uses it, Grumpybutt uses it.
They encourages ppl to join discord and leaders always make urgent calls by voice.
So lots of mids actually join the discord, cuz it is hard to follow him without 'listening'.

As for hib, Pilz/Vincenzo sometimes ask ppl to join discord, but 90% of hibs don't join, which is quite shame.
Because only by listening to leader's call by voice enables better and faster reaction.
I once was in a Umbrella's BG(but more like a fgh-2fgh cuz everyone left), but still was able to have great fun against lots of mids.
We were moving in and out using postern doors doing guerrilla stuffs and sometimes even survived our way out when keep fell.
This was all because we used discord. I can't say this was outstanding performance, but still more tactics/strategies were enabled due to discord.
Without voice? All you can do is to just sit in lord's room, eat all the st, twf, etc when door is down, and wipe without doing anything.

On the other hand, I personally don't remember alb BG using a discord.
Of course Harder and Barachan are also great leaders, too, but...
I always felt alb bg was missing some strategic points whenever they were outnumbered.
Let's face it. Reading chat in a chaotic fights ain't easy thing and lots of ppl don't read.

I personally hope lot more zergs also use some public discord.
I know, I'm not saying this will bring dramatically magical stuffs and change everything,
but being outnumbered while having bad reaction time and less strategic points makes it even worse you know.

Just saying

And I'm expecting some good influence Polemo will bring to Alb.
He'll be quite frustrated to see all the albs abandon rvr bg whenever there is a sidi raid(lolz), but....
I believe he'll show some persistence in alb as he showed in mid, and hopefully alb players will change as well.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 12:44 PM by Razur Ur

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 11:57 AM
If the issue is that Mids are running more tanks than alb and hib, why doesn't hib and alb run more tanks to compensate?

A hib tank oriented group is way stronger than a mid tank group, and alb tanks aren't bad either. Reavers with twf and their spells are pretty decent in BGs, arms are tough, pallys are sokid aswell.

The hp health pool changed that non-debuffing caster trains can't drop tanks as easily as before, but you still need a bit of coordination to rapidly kill things, whoch should be a good thing, no?

Problem ist the Alb Caster Groups which is with debuff assist rly hardcore + many pets for rupt. A group hib or mid must be playing very very good for winning vs
a kite alb group with 4 Caster debuff Assist.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 12:58 PM by inoeth

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 11:57 AM
If the issue is that Mids are running more tanks than alb and hib, why doesn't hib and alb run more tanks to compensate?

A hib tank oriented group is way stronger than a mid tank group, and alb tanks aren't bad either. Reavers with twf and their spells are pretty decent in BGs, arms are tough, pallys are sokid aswell.

The hp health pool changed that non-debuffing caster trains can't drop tanks as easily as before, but you still need a bit of coordination to rapidly kill things, whoch should be a good thing, no?

there are hib tanker grps and yes alb tanks are strong but for an effective alb grp you need at least 4 classes which are not tanks instead of 3 in the other realms, so alb tank grp is always a bit in a disadvantage here. also the sorc slot is pretty useless and only needed for ae mezz.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 3:35 PM by opossum12

Aren't we talking about BG RvR in this thread? Group comp isn't really a big deal on a BG setting.

Historically, Albs really love their casters and usually run really caster heavy BGs, which tend to flop miserably. Mids usually run tank heavy BGs, so anytime you get in a siege/keep fight mids will always destroy the albs.

Once you get a minstrel, a cleric and a 2nd healer, the rest is FFA on alb in a BG setting. Nothing prevents you from running 5 tanks in an alb group.

This is BG we are talking about, not rocket science.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 10:21 PM by Razur Ur

Alb Tank Group easy;

Cleric Cleric Friar Minstrel Minstrel Arms Pala Merc!!

Sun 2 Feb 2020 4:32 PM by jhaerik

While Albs are complaining about group setups.... half those mids groups in those BG's look like Shaman/Shaman/Skald/Skald/Shadowblade/Hunter/Thane/Savage.

Sat 4 Apr 2020 2:36 AM by Tsol

And I'm expecting some good influence Polemo will bring to Alb.
He'll be quite frustrated to see all the albs abandon rvr bg whenever there is a sidi raid(lolz), but....
I believe he'll show some persistence in alb as he showed in mid, and hopefully alb players will change as well.
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U have no idea!!