New Scout Shield Style - Phoenix Freeshard

Unless feedback brings up unintended side effects / consequences, the scout (and only the scout) will receive a new shield style in the next day or two, currently the intended values are as follows:

Skill level: 45
Opener: None / anytimer
Endurance cost: Very high (30% with a typical small shield)
Damage: low - medium
To hit bonus: none
Defensive bonus: none
Effect: Slows the target by 99% for 14 seconds

In other words: a new scout only anytime shield style that will cost about 30% endurance and apply a melee root. Normal slow behavior applies: after 7 seconds (half the slow duration) the target will regain their movement speed over the remaining duration (after 10.5 seconds the target will be back at 50%), as this is a normal melee snare it won't apply immunity.

Depending on feedback it's possible that this style effect might replace the brutalize effect for scouts only or the endurance cost might be increased or decreased or the root time might be changed.

Scouts will not receive a full respec.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 1:53 PM by Sepplord

I dislike the idea of adding another CC to albion stealthgroups, especially one that doesn't even have a downside like the immunitytimer

For Soloscouts it sounds good, and they needed something. But also for them it feels wrong to have a spammable immunityfree CC.

But still worth a try, already interested to read the Feedback when people have played with/against it for a bit

Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:00 PM by Azrael

Not sure how this will work out when implemented but if you can root somebody everytime they can catch you sounds a bit strange.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:01 PM by Loki

So let's see, hib sneaks - after evade stun, side stun.
Alb sneaks - after evade, slam (scouts), and add minstrel tool kit to that.
Mid sneaks - after evade 2nd style (sb), 5sec back style (hunter spear).

I'm saying whatever you want to give scouts, basically because they whine a lot and think they should kill assassins in melee, should not be more CC. Whatever change you consider for scouts shouldn't add more tools to the already big kit that the totality of alb stealthers have.

As per usual, everyone gets instant toys and Mid gets nothing.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:07 PM by chois

We dont need a third/forth snare.... good luck to take range when u are perma garrot, it s nice to see something for scout

Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:10 PM by Loki

chois wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:07 PM
We dont need a third/forth snare.... good luck to take range when u are perma garrot, it s nice to see something for scout

Glad you admit it's assassins that frustrate you. I rest my case.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:26 PM by Bejarid

I can understand why archers, and in particular scout, want to be able to have a chance to fight back the melee stealth, it's just not fun to die without being able to fight back fairly.

But... I don't think the ranged problem against melee is one that should be fixed. It's part of the balance for me, as no class should be good in too much cases. Quite a bit even have very specific conditions to shine, and it's good as it gives diversity to the game.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:27 PM by Forlornhope

Just give them self buffs like hunter/ranger.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:32 PM by Strikejk

A melee root without immunity timer that is easily spamable? I could give you multiple scenarios where this is devastating. I fully agree that the scout needs a buff tho, desperatly, but I don't think this is the right approach.

A better approach would be to give them self-buffs and master of arcane like all other.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:49 PM by canzian

No immunity? It’ 1st April?

Thu 26 Dec 2019 3:14 PM by

gruenesschaf

canzian wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:49 PM
No immunity? It’ 1st April?

Melee snare. Melee snare has never given immunity. The difference between something like garotte and a root is one is usually around 60% the other 99%, a root is still a snare and hence all the same mechanics apply.

In practice, this will mean scouts will be engaged with the unbreakable snare poison and perma garroted making the 7 sec actual root about as effective as a 2 second root in terms of how much distance you will get away.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 3:17 PM by

gruenesschaf

Bejarid wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:26 PM
I can understand why archers, and in particular scout, want to be able to have a chance to fight back the melee stealth, it's just not fun to die without being able to fight back fairly.

But... I don't think the ranged problem against melee is one that should be fixed. It's part of the balance for me, as no class should be good in too much cases. Quite a bit even have very specific conditions to shine, and it's good as it gives diversity to the game.

Ranger are mostly fine in melee, so are hunter since the pet change, scouts needed something since basically forever, we just couldn't decide what. Buffing their ranged abilities in any way would make them better in zergs / sieges which is not where they need any help at all.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 3:23 PM by Pao

Good change let's see how it plays out. Now at least you can get some distance after slam is purged.
We still won't see scouts win a lot but now it's kind of a fight.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:10 PM by chryso

Regardless of how it works, it is good to see new ideas being thought out.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:32 PM by Forlornhope

I am curious though, is there a reason you can't or won't give them self buffs similar to the other archers? Maybe because there's no separate skill line to put it into on a scout, like beast mastery or path finding? Just want to know your guys' thoughts on it, thank you

Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:33 PM by gromet12

Loki wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:01 PM
So let's see, hib sneaks - after evade stun, side stun.
Alb sneaks - after evade, slam (scouts), and add minstrel tool kit to that.
Mid sneaks - after evade 2nd style (sb), 5sec back style (hunter spear).

I'm saying whatever you want to give scouts, basically because they whine a lot and think they should kill assassins in melee, should not be more CC. Whatever change you consider for scouts shouldn't add more tools to the already big kit that the totality of alb stealthers have.

As per usual, everyone gets instant toys and Mid gets nothing.

I dont think any archer should stand toe to toe against an assassin in straight out melee, HOWEVER the pendulum has gone way to far in favor of the sin's taking away the tool kit of archers to allow them to get openers on the sins yet sins have no trouble landing openers on archers (well you have an opportunity to that is) Bow shots take more time to line up, the bow dmg is pathetic, and its so easily interrupted.

Archers need 2 fixes and that would change everything including changing how rangers/hunters are played (which also fixes them). Buffs moved to the archer line (basically add the archery fixes into the game from live) then give access to the MOC. The other item is to allow MOS to actually increase the detection range on the archer so they can use their openings in the game, or have an opportunity. You fix that and you have a different story in the stealth game.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:39 PM by Forlornhope

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:33 PM
Loki wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:01 PM
So let's see, hib sneaks - after evade stun, side stun.
Alb sneaks - after evade, slam (scouts), and add minstrel tool kit to that.
Mid sneaks - after evade 2nd style (sb), 5sec back style (hunter spear).

I'm saying whatever you want to give scouts, basically because they whine a lot and think they should kill assassins in melee, should not be more CC. Whatever change you consider for scouts shouldn't add more tools to the already big kit that the totality of alb stealthers have.

As per usual, everyone gets instant toys and Mid gets nothing.

I dont think any archer should stand toe to toe against an assassin in straight out melee, HOWEVER the pendulum has gone way to far in favor of the sin's taking away the tool kit of archers to allow them to get openers on the sins yet sins have no trouble landing openers on archers (well you have an opportunity to that is) Bow shots take more time to line up, the bow dmg is pathetic, and its so easily interrupted.

Archers need 2 fixes and that would change everything including changing how rangers/hunters are played (which also fixes them). Buffs moved to the archer line (basically add the archery fixes into the game from live) then give access to the MOC. The other item is to allow MOS to actually increase the detection range on the archer so they can use their openings in the game, or have an opportunity. You fix that and you have a different story in the stealth game.

I'd agree with moving the the self buffs to the archery line, but I am pretty sure the archery fixes from live would be way too strong here.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:41 PM by Ardri

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 3:17 PM
Bejarid wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:26 PM
I can understand why archers, and in particular scout, want to be able to have a chance to fight back the melee stealth, it's just not fun to die without being able to fight back fairly.

But... I don't think the ranged problem against melee is one that should be fixed. It's part of the balance for me, as no class should be good in too much cases. Quite a bit even have very specific conditions to shine, and it's good as it gives diversity to the game.

Ranger are mostly fine in melee, so are hunter since the pet change, scouts needed something since basically forever, we just couldn't decide what. Buffing their ranged abilities in any way would make them better in zergs / sieges which is not where they need any help at all.

Have you or anyone on dev team actually played an archer since the HP buff? Let alone try and solo on one? This is a serious question.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:49 PM by gromet12

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:39 PM
gromet12 wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:33 PM
Loki wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:01 PM
So let's see, hib sneaks - after evade stun, side stun.
Alb sneaks - after evade, slam (scouts), and add minstrel tool kit to that.
Mid sneaks - after evade 2nd style (sb), 5sec back style (hunter spear).

I'm saying whatever you want to give scouts, basically because they whine a lot and think they should kill assassins in melee, should not be more CC. Whatever change you consider for scouts shouldn't add more tools to the already big kit that the totality of alb stealthers have.

As per usual, everyone gets instant toys and Mid gets nothing.

I dont think any archer should stand toe to toe against an assassin in straight out melee, HOWEVER the pendulum has gone way to far in favor of the sin's taking away the tool kit of archers to allow them to get openers on the sins yet sins have no trouble landing openers on archers (well you have an opportunity to that is) Bow shots take more time to line up, the bow dmg is pathetic, and its so easily interrupted.

Archers need 2 fixes and that would change everything including changing how rangers/hunters are played (which also fixes them). Buffs moved to the archer line (basically add the archery fixes into the game from live) then give access to the MOC. The other item is to allow MOS to actually increase the detection range on the archer so they can use their openings in the game, or have an opportunity. You fix that and you have a different story in the stealth game.

I'd agree with moving the the self buffs to the archery line, but I am pretty sure the archery fixes from live would be way too strong here.

But the WS debuff and viper was not?

Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:59 PM by Forlornhope

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:49 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:39 PM
gromet12 wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:33 PM
I dont think any archer should stand toe to toe against an assassin in straight out melee, HOWEVER the pendulum has gone way to far in favor of the sin's taking away the tool kit of archers to allow them to get openers on the sins yet sins have no trouble landing openers on archers (well you have an opportunity to that is) Bow shots take more time to line up, the bow dmg is pathetic, and its so easily interrupted.

Archers need 2 fixes and that would change everything including changing how rangers/hunters are played (which also fixes them). Buffs moved to the archer line (basically add the archery fixes into the game from live) then give access to the MOC. The other item is to allow MOS to actually increase the detection range on the archer so they can use their openings in the game, or have an opportunity. You fix that and you have a different story in the stealth game.

I'd agree with moving the the self buffs to the archery line, but I am pretty sure the archery fixes from live would be way too strong here.

But the WS debuff and viper was not?

Compared to power shot, pb shot, and making arrows magic damage no I don't think those are nearly as strong.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 5:14 PM by BisbyHoughton

Don't have a dog in this fight per se, but appreciate the GM taking a look at scouts since it has been an issue for a while now that a lot of players have voiced concerns over. Thanks for trying something new to spruce up the class.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 5:27 PM by Kurbsen

maybe bring back 75 str/con and d/q charges before adding a completely new style..alb stealth grps are gonna be rough now with this

edit: are scouts gonna be new 8 man meta now? A 99% snare (melee root) sounds insanely strong.. like there has to be some diminishing effects to this right? Or a scout can literally root lock tanks out?? please say im thinking about this wrong here..

Thu 26 Dec 2019 5:42 PM by Forlornhope

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 5:27 PM
maybe bring back 75 str/con and d/q charges before adding a completely new style..alb stealth grps are gonna be rough now with this

edit: are scouts gonna be new 8 man meta now? A 99% snare (melee root) sounds insanely strong.. like there has to be some diminishing effects to this right? Or a scout can literally root lock tanks out?? please say im thinking about this wrong here..

Yeah I agree this is going way too far. And rather then adding the 75 charges back I'd rather them give scouts self buffs like rangers/hunters.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 5:59 PM by Azrael

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 5:27 PM
edit: are scouts gonna be new 8 man meta now? A 99% snare (melee root) sounds insanely strong.. like there has to be some diminishing effects to this right? Or a scout can literally root lock tanks out?? please say im thinking about this wrong here..

hehe thought the same xD

Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:01 PM by Isavyr

Ardri wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:41 PM
Have you or anyone on dev team actually played an archer since the HP buff? Let alone try and solo on one? This is a serious question.

Woah, this is real? How much of a buff did they receive?

This appears to be runaway balancing that is very messy and all because of some whiny scouts that don't play particularly well? Scouts are weak vs assassins because assassins have high purge and will purge a slam. Thus, scouts should always numb. With their d/q weapon debuff, ASR, they should survive to full slam an assassin.

A little digression regarding assassin high-purge: I think high purge is bad for all assassin play, and should have been removed. Modify vanish to work anytime (in CC), and with a shorter re-engagement (15s?) and assassins would be a lot better balanced.

Back to the point, this is going to make scouts the ideal 8-man peeler, and a good scout will become melee dominant in stealth games. This may work out, because DAOC has messy balancing, but on paper this appears imprecise, and for the wrong reasons.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:05 PM by

gruenesschaf

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 5:27 PM
edit: are scouts gonna be new 8 man meta now? A 99% snare (melee root) sounds insanely strong.. like there has to be some diminishing effects to this right? Or a scout can literally root lock tanks out?? please say im thinking about this wrong here..

The high endurance cost as well as the hinted possibility of making this effect replace the 10 sec brutalize stun (50 shield after block) are both due to the potential 8v8 viability. While having scouts appear there in general due to this unique melee root is perfectly fine, if it turns out too strong in that setting it'll become the after block effect or have its endurance cost increased.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:11 PM by Isavyr

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:05 PM
The high endurance cost as well as the hinted possibility of making this effect replace the 10 sec brutalize stun (50 shield after block) are both due to the potential 8v8 viability. While having scouts appear there in general due to this unique melee root is perfectly fine, if it turns out too strong in that setting it'll become the after block effect or have its endurance cost increased.

High endurance cost is just nuclear balancing. It's really good, when it works. Otherwise it's bad. This level of RNG isn't healthy or desirable, in my opinion. It's my opinion that it's already more logical to have it replace brutalize.

As we've seen with Friars, it takes a long time for groups to adjust to the fact the class has changed and is better, so I expect a long time to see repercussions to this.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:16 PM by Lanathir

Am I wrong or were asassins not initially meant to be the nemesis of bow-classes?

Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:18 PM by Kurbsen

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:05 PM
Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 5:27 PM
edit: are scouts gonna be new 8 man meta now? A 99% snare (melee root) sounds insanely strong.. like there has to be some diminishing effects to this right? Or a scout can literally root lock tanks out?? please say im thinking about this wrong here..

The high endurance cost as well as the hinted possibility of making this effect replace the 10 sec brutalize stun (50 shield after block) are both due to the potential 8v8 viability. While having scouts appear there in general due to this unique melee root is perfectly fine, if it turns out too strong in that setting it'll become the after block effect or have its endurance cost increased.

insta end pot, legion end charge.. 30% is a lot yes but those two abilities can offset that easily.. maybe second wind can make an appearance finally.. I just think this change isnt thought through enough and will cause more harm then good. (guess its time for valewalkers to get their aoe melee root as well now?)

also getting rid of brutalize is also a nerf in itself.. 10 second stun is kind of a big deal for scouts while soloing.. that 1 second can mean getting 1 more shot off with bow.

edit: adding onto this again.. how about make it an ability thats given to them.. maybe usable every 3-5 mins? instead of used anytime.. that way it can be up pretty much every solo fight, and will have less impact in the 8v8 scene.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:29 PM by Isavyr

Lanathir wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:16 PM
Am I wrong or were asassins not initially meant to be the nemesis of bow-classes?

Yes. Both roles--archers, assassins--could use redesigns. They suffer from being ill-suited to visible group play, and to having few targets suitable for their abilities. I don't think that assassins should be 3v1 machines, as they once were with Dodger, nor should they be so squishy/low-utility that they cannot 8-man, reliably, as is currently the case.

Buffing scout will put opposing assassins into even more of a pinch on finding suitable targets.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:30 PM by Tyrlaan

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 5:27 PM
edit: are scouts gonna be new 8 man meta now? A 99% snare (melee root) sounds insanely strong.. like there has to be some diminishing effects to this right? Or a scout can literally root lock tanks out?? please say im thinking about this wrong here..

Archers and sins have Det on Phoenix yet never made it into the 8man meta. A root shield style may sound great on paper (as would the addition of spammable garrotte with disease and snare poisons, don´t you think) but that´s all it is, paper DAoC - that kind of 1-trick utility will never allow a low dps low hp class that dies in milliseconds to assisted damage to take an 8man peel spot. The style won´t help much vs. assassins either (7 seconds to run with at least unbreakable snare and disease applied, possibly garrotte too is like 500-1000 units and well within interrupt range).

Solo it gonna add an escape tool vs. other classes (and their pets) to restealth. It also prevents the use of DoT to augment dps.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:34 PM by Kurbsen

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:30 PM
Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 5:27 PM
edit: are scouts gonna be new 8 man meta now? A 99% snare (melee root) sounds insanely strong.. like there has to be some diminishing effects to this right? Or a scout can literally root lock tanks out?? please say im thinking about this wrong here..

Archers and sins have Det on Phoenix yet never made it into the 8man meta. A root shield style may sound great on paper (as would the addition of spammable garrotte with disease and snare poisons, don´t you think) but that´s all it is, paper DAoC - that kind of 1-trick utility will never allow a low dps low hp class that dies in milliseconds to assisted damage to take an 8man peel spot. The style won´t help much vs. assassins either (7 seconds to run with at least unbreakable snare and disease applied, possibly garrotte too is like 500-1000 units and well within interrupt range).

Solo it gonna add an escape tool vs. other classes (and their pets) to restealth. It also prevents the use of DoT to augment dps.

scout would be more viable compared to a garrote spam.. who cares about their damage when they can rapid fire supports/casters and amnesia wont do anything to it.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:44 PM by Isavyr

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:30 PM
Archers and sins have Det on Phoenix yet never made it into the 8man meta. A root shield style may sound great on paper (as would the addition of spammable garrotte with disease and snare poisons, don´t you think) but that´s all it is, paper DAoC - that kind of 1-trick utility will never allow a low dps low hp class that dies in milliseconds to assisted damage to take an 8man peel spot.

I totally agree with you!--and would love to have a separate discussion on how those classes could be included (for example, if vanish acted in CC, it would allow the assassin to escape an assist train, as in your example). However, without feedback from the dev team that they share the goal of making stealthers (somewhat?) suitable for 8-man, a discussion would be pointless.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 7:33 PM by Tyrlaan

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:34 PM
scout would be more viable compared to a garrote spam.. who cares about their damage when they can rapid fire supports/casters and amnesia wont do anything to it.

Are we still talking about the addition of a melee style? So what is it, an archer melee rooting tanks or an archer 2000 units away using rapid fire (without nearsight or a pet on him), basically the same another nearsight or amnesia caster (i.e. Cab or Sorc) could contribute, minus the debuffed DPS, other CC or pet - and breaking roots and snares with his shots left and right. Paper DAoC at its best. No, this style will not see Scouts into 8mans (in Albion, where you can´t fit half the stuff you would want into 8 slots).

Thu 26 Dec 2019 7:42 PM by Forlornhope

Give 'em self buffs please, no need to add something ridiculous like this. They don't need yet another snare that they need to spec crazy high into something to get. Is there a reason why self buffs like the ones a hunter/ranger get isn't even considered before something like this?

Thu 26 Dec 2019 8:07 PM by Pao

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:01 PM
Ardri wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:41 PM
Have you or anyone on dev team actually played an archer since the HP buff? Let alone try and solo on one? This is a serious question.

Woah, this is real? How much of a buff did they receive?

This appears to be runaway balancing that is very messy and all because of some whiny scouts that don't play particularly well? Scouts are weak vs assassins because assassins have high purge and will purge a slam. Thus, scouts should always numb. With their d/q weapon debuff, ASR, they should survive to full slam an assassin.

A little digression regarding assassin high-purge: I think high purge is bad for all assassin play, and should have been removed. Modify vanish to work anytime (in CC), and with a shorter re-engagement (15s?) and assassins would be a lot better balanced.

Back to the point, this is going to make scouts the ideal 8-man peeler, and a good scout will become melee dominant in stealth games. This may work out, because DAOC has messy balancing, but on paper this appears imprecise, and for the wrong reasons.

Scouts atm lose against almost all classes 1vs1. Bow dmg is way too low and you directly get interrupted. Melee dmg is a joke. Only chance to win when you fight against a bad player. Everyone is tempted and everyone has purge. It's not about winning against assassins it's about winning any 1vs1. Your opener is very limited almost not existent 1vs1 against an assassin because of missing MoS. You can get a slam through before you get perfted but then it's over.

8vs8 META? As a peeler great but the dmg is very low. Would be surprised if somebody would take a scout as a viable option. Rapid fire makes 100dmg melee around 90dmg. Not doing anything it would be a wasted slot.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 8:21 PM by taxigirl

I agree that although scouts do need help, this doesn't seem to be the right direction. Why is no one talking about fixing bow damage? A scout should use its bow, and should be encouraged to spec the bow line.

If I'm playing a scout, I don't care about winning all the time 1v1 against an assassin in melee, as we shouldn't be able to. But we should be able to kill things at range since this is our class's primary ability. Without it, the class is broken.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 9:08 PM by Cryptoinsomnia

Its great that you do changes on the scout, but what would be best in my opinion. instead of adding new things, you could try to fix the problem that Crit shot doesnt break bubbles, that is ridicilous, as if Infi couldnt PA/BS through a bubble ---- also the problem with randomly losing stealth when you pull your arrow is very annyoing.

i love the phoenix server and what you guys did in general ;D absolutly fantastic!
Cheers

Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:01 PM by Pao

Cryptoinsomnia wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 9:08 PM
Its great that you do changes on the scout, but what would be best in my opinion. instead of adding new things, you could try to fix the problem that Crit shot doesnt break bubbles, that is ridicilous, as if Infi couldnt PA/BS through a bubble ---- also the problem with randomly losing stealth when you pull your arrow is very annyoing.

i love the phoenix server and what you guys did in general ;D absolutly fantastic!
Cheers

Always loosing randomly stealth pulling the bow and bubble was never popped by a critshot. This are not bugs.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:30 PM by Niekas

Inb4 Albs start to run scouts in 8mans to peel better than a 8second stun.

Did the devs think of that?

surely not.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:41 PM by Cadebrennus

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 1:18 PM
Unless feedback brings up unintended side effects / consequences, the scout (and only the scout) will receive a new shield style in the next day or two, currently the intended values are as follows:

Skill level: 45
Opener: None / anytimer
Endurance cost: Very high (30% with a typical small shield)
Damage: low - medium
To hit bonus: none
Defensive bonus: none
Effect: Slows the target by 99% for 14 seconds

In other words: a new scout only anytime shield style that will cost about 30% endurance and apply a melee root. Normal slow behavior applies: after 7 seconds (half the slow duration) the target will regain their movement speed over the remaining duration (after 10.5 seconds the target will be back at 50%), as this is a normal melee snare it won't apply immunity.

Depending on feedback it's possible that this style effect might replace the brutalize effect for scouts only or the endurance cost might be increased or decreased or the root time might be changed.

Scouts will not receive a full respec.

Side Slicer 0.60 Beside foe L M Root 12s

Wolftooth 0.90 Ratfang M M H Hindered 100% for 12s

Wyvernfang 0.85 Tranquillize M L M Hindered 100% for 27s

And before I hear anyone complain that a side style (Slash 21) is too hard to pull off, let's not forget the horde of whiners that complain about the "so easy to pull off it might as well be an anytime" side stun at 18 Celtic Dual. And yes, 44 thrust is so good for the two-part anytime snare that my 50 DW Merc sacrificed Shield spec for it and it is 100% worth it.

The tools are already there. It's not the game, it's the players. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:44 PM by 2flare

Great let's add more CC to albion.

Just increase their bow dmg instead. They dont' need to be soloing assassins. Make them more viable against casters. Do something anything then just more CC.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:04 AM by Cadebrennus

2flare wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:44 PM
Great let's add more CC to albion. Just increase their bow dmg instead. They dont' need to be soloing assassins. Make them more viable against casters. Do something anything then just more CC.

Agree 100%. Archers were originally designed as the anti-Caster until the whiners got Archers nerfed.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 10:22 AM by Ashman

goodbye arms peeler helllooooow scoutyboy <3

Fri 27 Dec 2019 1:54 PM by Vkejai

Will this root ability work if you hit someone with it who is running with a damage shield ?

Fri 27 Dec 2019 2:21 PM by Pao

All people that think a Scout will run in a 8vs8 grp are out of their fucking mind and have no idea how gimp a Scout is.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 2:58 PM by Forlornhope

Pao wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 2:21 PM
All people that think a Scout will run in a 8vs8 grp are out of their fucking mind and have no idea how gimp a Scout is.

I just want damn self buffs for the scout man, I still don't know why that doesn't even seem to be considered as a possibility.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:18 PM by Pao

Speed shout would be great to close distance on moving targets.

A buffline would not work since there are not enough skill points.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:48 PM by Cadebrennus

Pao wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 2:21 PM
All people that think a Scout will run in a 8vs8 grp are out of their fucking mind and have no idea how gimp a Scout is.

A Scout is the best group Archer of the 3, especially when paired with a Caster

Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:54 PM by Pao

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:48 PM
Pao wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 2:21 PM
All people that think a Scout will run in a 8vs8 grp are out of their fucking mind and have no idea how gimp a Scout is.

A Scout is the best group Archer of the 3, especially when paired with a Caster

Yeah, but even with the change, it wont replace any other shield user in a 8vs8 grp

Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:57 PM by Cadebrennus

Pao wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:54 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:48 PM
Pao wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 2:21 PM
All people that think a Scout will run in a 8vs8 grp are out of their fucking mind and have no idea how gimp a Scout is.

A Scout is the best group Archer of the 3, especially when paired with a Caster

Yeah, but even with the change, it wont replace any other shield user in a 8vs8 grp

I agree with you there regarding player's mentality and the proposed Shield change. However the main difference between a Shield Tank and an Archer is a Shield Tank has nothing to do when the enemy is far away and free casting. An Archer can at least multi-task in an 8man. I did it for years.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 6:26 PM by gotwqqd

2flare wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:44 PM
Great let's add more CC to albion. Just increase their bow dmg instead. They dont' need to be soloing assassins. Make them more viable against casters. Do something anything then just more CC.

This
They are supposed to be the best “pure” archer out of the three. How about 100-150 units extra range and sole use of slowest bows for a start. Then increase bow or melee damage slightly if needed.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 6:44 PM by Forlornhope

Pao wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:18 PM
Speed shout would be great to close distance on moving targets.

A buffline would not work since there are not enough skill points.

They would have to put it into a line that already exists or give them more spec points and a separate spec line to make self buffs a thing. Or just move all archer class self buffs into bow spec line so everyone has even buffs and maybe specing into bow will actually become viable.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 9:10 PM by teiloh

IMO, if Archers are found to be wanting, buffing the Archery lines in general would be an indirect buff to Scouts.

Loki wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:01 PM
As per usual, everyone gets instant toys and Mid gets nothing.

Poor, poor Midgard, getting not a single nerf (save BD healer pets) and gets everyone else's RAs. No wonder they're underpopulated!

Fri 27 Dec 2019 9:13 PM by teiloh

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:48 PM
A Scout is the best group Archer of the 3, especially when paired with a Caster

No, it isn't. They're actually good, but Alb is already drowning in shields. A Hunter that manages its pet well would be far more of a threat.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 10:32 PM by Cadebrennus

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 9:13 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:48 PM
A Scout is the best group Archer of the 3, especially when paired with a Caster

No, it isn't. They're actually good, but Alb is already drowning in shields. A Hunter that manages its pet well would be far more of a threat.

A well played Hunter can be a monster in a Visi group, but I like the extra CC that the shield brings to the table when an Archer has to swap from ranged DPS/interrupts to defensive mode. In this case though (as far as Hunters go) the Spear line is far superior to Sword, even though I love using the Sword line on a Hunter. In a Visi group the Ranger is the weakest of the three, but still fun, and still useful if played by someone who doesn't stay stealthed the whole time, thanks to the side stun and rear snare in the CD line. The real trick though is playing well to the timing, because an Archer in a Visi group still has to know when to swap to melee ahead of time in order to utilize stuns/snares/etc. to stop incoming tanks. The Hunter excels here because they can both interrupt enemy casters as a pet class and peel at the same time. Scouts however have the Shield spec which they can use to block enemy attacks with for a groupmate, at the highest block percentage in the game. That's why they work best when they're covering/assisting a Caster.

Sat 28 Dec 2019 5:13 AM by Daoc_1

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 1:18 PM
Unless feedback brings up unintended side effects / consequences, the scout (and only the scout) will receive a new shield style in the next day or two, currently the intended values are as follows:

Skill level: 45
Opener: None / anytimer
Endurance cost: Very high (30% with a typical small shield)
Damage: low - medium
To hit bonus: none
Defensive bonus: none
Effect: Slows the target by 99% for 14 seconds

In other words: a new scout only anytime shield style that will cost about 30% endurance and apply a melee root. Normal slow behavior applies: after 7 seconds (half the slow duration) the target will regain their movement speed over the remaining duration (after 10.5 seconds the target will be back at 50%), as this is a normal melee snare it won't apply immunity.

Depending on feedback it's possible that this style effect might replace the brutalize effect for scouts only or the endurance cost might be increased or decreased or the root time might be changed.

Scouts will not receive a full respec.

Can you make this a Shot instead of shield .. we already have slam... Im a FULL SNIPER ... so it helps us snipes out if it were shots instead of Shields.. just a thought

Sat 28 Dec 2019 1:24 PM by Wolfir666

Daoc_1 wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 5:13 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 1:18 PM
Unless feedback brings up unintended side effects / consequences, the scout (and only the scout) will receive a new shield style in the next day or two, currently the intended values are as follows:

Skill level: 45
Opener: None / anytimer
Endurance cost: Very high (30% with a typical small shield)
Damage: low - medium
To hit bonus: none
Defensive bonus: none
Effect: Slows the target by 99% for 14 seconds

In other words: a new scout only anytime shield style that will cost about 30% endurance and apply a melee root. Normal slow behavior applies: after 7 seconds (half the slow duration) the target will regain their movement speed over the remaining duration (after 10.5 seconds the target will be back at 50%), as this is a normal melee snare it won't apply immunity.

Depending on feedback it's possible that this style effect might replace the brutalize effect for scouts only or the endurance cost might be increased or decreased or the root time might be changed.

Scouts will not receive a full respec.

Can you make this a Shot instead of shield .. we already have slam... Im a FULL SNIPER ... so it helps us snipes out if it were shots instead of Shields.. just a thought

Yes ofc, a shot that snares, unique to scouts.. that's what DAoC really needs :p

Sat 28 Dec 2019 2:09 PM by gromet12

[quote=Daoc_1 post_id=93091 time=1577510010 user]

Can you make this a Shot instead of shield .. we already have slam... Im a FULL SNIPER ... so it helps us snipes out if it were shots instead of Shields.. just a thought
[/quote]

I enjoy archers except for this server; it’s just not a fun experience as you are basically a weaker version of a Sin with ip compared to having viper/debuffs/vanish

Anyway you don't think a bow style root that does 99% snare is about as OP as you can get? Imagine a casters dmg snare not given immunity and having a 99% snare vs 60

Sat 28 Dec 2019 3:06 PM by Smoover

feels bad after 6 pages of ppl playing archer and knowing there flaws and pro´s . yet u decide to bring this . just dissapointment somhow u ignore theese realy goodfacts stated beforehand . how could u do such a change lol lol . just revert the beta changes . obviosuly there was 1 fcking scout rocking with it and it was me . consider the imense gameplay i put into this at all . POt changes espicial loose d/q charge and enemy gains healcharge , and also the plain dmg reduce u madefeels sowrong with all the other OP/pimped classes arround . i will post the video again here . doubt s1 care but thrust me i put alot work into the scout play i showed there - if u read that Thread and are dissapointed aswell , here have a short 30 min of scouts actualy Beeing a valid class .

https://youtu.be/5-FqU9QZ9XQ

also consider i play soloclasses only. and i was the the scout having 500 solokills at end of beta why 2nd had 50? . plz consider my words or ignore like the others . have a good day .

Sat 28 Dec 2019 3:35 PM by Pao

Main reason is they care more about 8vs8 than solo play. Archer with normal damage would have an impact if they add a 8vs8, now they just a minor inconvenience.

Sat 28 Dec 2019 6:29 PM by Llaw

A change that makes more people play and participate in the legendary isolationist Phoenix stealth zergs?!

Yes, please!

Sat 28 Dec 2019 7:27 PM by Smoover

i think the main reason is to buff them for single/smallplay basicly , yet i dont understand after all that nerfs( some of them obviously where needed and i reported 90% of scout problems? ) to bring such a solution ...

Sat 28 Dec 2019 7:29 PM by gotwqqd

Great idea....a skill that requires lowering bow spec of the supposed “pure” archer class

Sat 28 Dec 2019 8:42 PM by Cadebrennus

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 7:29 PM
Great idea....a skill that requires lowering bow spec of the supposed “pure” archer class

Good point. Gruen should put this in the Archery line.

Sat 28 Dec 2019 8:43 PM by Forlornhope

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 8:42 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 7:29 PM
Great idea....a skill that requires lowering bow spec of the supposed “pure” archer class

Good point. Gruen should put this in the Archery line.

They should move all self buffs to the archer line on all archer classes and call it a fucking day lol

Sat 28 Dec 2019 8:59 PM by Cadebrennus

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 8:43 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 8:42 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 7:29 PM
Great idea....a skill that requires lowering bow spec of the supposed “pure” archer class

Good point. Gruen should put this in the Archery line.

They should move all self buffs to the archer line on all archer classes and call it a fucking day lol

Even better, give all three Archer classes the Pathfinding spec line that they have to spec in if they want self buffs.

Sat 28 Dec 2019 9:50 PM by gotwqqd

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 8:42 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 7:29 PM
Great idea....a skill that requires lowering bow spec of the supposed “pure” archer class

Good point. Gruen should put this in the Archery line.

Even with one in shield it would be nice place for the skill
Though miss rate may hurt

Sun 29 Dec 2019 3:19 AM by Eckso

At first I thought this suggestion was ridiculous, but after reading the comments and thinking it over, I actually like the change.

Hunters have pets and two hand melee lines, and speed song from Beastcraft as well. Helps to round out their kit.
Rangers have self buffs, including a hefty self damage add, and speed song to round out their kit.

Scouts have slam. A speccable line, to be sure, and which can be augmented with MoBlocking, and some snares in melee trees, but thats it.

Grun said if the changes are too drastic, they can always be reverted.

Let's see where this goes!

My last fight with Skaipa, he used purge and Ip, I used nothing, and I killed the scout with 60% health left. (The numb bait doesnt work, just fyi ). Just one fight, but I think illustrative that scouts may at least need a little something.

See you on the battlefield, Scouts!!!

-Exo

Sun 29 Dec 2019 5:38 AM by Riac

Eckso wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 3:19 AM
At first I thought this suggestion was ridiculous, but after reading the comments and thinking it over, I actually like the change.

Hunters have pets and two hand melee lines, and speed song from Beastcraft as well. Helps to round out their kit.
Rangers have self buffs, including a hefty self damage add, and speed song to round out their kit.

Scouts have slam. A speccable line, to be sure, and which can be augmented with MoBlocking, and some snares in melee trees, but thats it.

Grun said if the changes are too drastic, they can always be reverted.

Let's see where this goes!

My last fight with Skaipa, he used purge and Ip, I used nothing, and I killed the scout with 60% health left. (The numb bait doesnt work, just fyi ). Just one fight, but I think illustrative that scouts may at least need a little something.

See you on the battlefield, Scouts!!!

-Exo

isnt skaipa a melee scout? this wouldnt be a very good example of a scout snaring you and then getting a shitload of distance to finish unloading on you.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 6:21 AM by Toobad

Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 5:38 AM
Eckso wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 3:19 AM
At first I thought this suggestion was ridiculous, but after reading the comments and thinking it over, I actually like the change.

Hunters have pets and two hand melee lines, and speed song from Beastcraft as well. Helps to round out their kit.
Rangers have self buffs, including a hefty self damage add, and speed song to round out their kit.

Scouts have slam. A speccable line, to be sure, and which can be augmented with MoBlocking, and some snares in melee trees, but thats it.

Grun said if the changes are too drastic, they can always be reverted.

Let's see where this goes!

My last fight with Skaipa, he used purge and Ip, I used nothing, and I killed the scout with 60% health left. (The numb bait doesnt work, just fyi ). Just one fight, but I think illustrative that scouts may at least need a little something.

See you on the battlefield, Scouts!!!

-Exo

isnt skaipa a melee scout? this wouldnt be a very good example of a scout snaring you and then getting a shitload of distance to finish unloading on you.

Problem is, as Gruen said, the actual amount of time gained is around 2 seconds due to Garrote. So there won't be a "shitload" of distance. This ability really won't be viable against assasins due to this. Not to say, it won't help against others, but not as overpowered as many are claiming. Also, groups aren't going to replace an Armsman with a Scout because of this ability. Let's see how it plays out, but Scouts are still hurting, as are all archers.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 6:58 AM by lrgreen82

After playing on my SB for the first day of this roll-out. I can now say that anytime I meet a scout 1v1, I will die. I get shield slammed, the scout moves back and hits me with his bow several times before it wears off. This used to be nearly maddening on it's own. But now, even if I purge the shield stun, I can now get hit with this God-like root/snare for 7-14 seconds. The only chance I have after blowing purge is to vanish and hope he doesn't pop me immediately because now I'm disarmed for 30 seconds. God forbid that purge is down and I somehow survive the initial shield stun/pluckfest and get within melee range again only to be rooted in place with nothing but a 7 second throwing axe to possibly interrupt the next onslaught of arrows. This idea needs to be trashed, otherwise the entire stealth community will just be wandering around on their alb scouts wondering where are the Hib/Mid stealthers went.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 7:06 AM by Riac

Toobad wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 6:21 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 5:38 AM
Eckso wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 3:19 AM
At first I thought this suggestion was ridiculous, but after reading the comments and thinking it over, I actually like the change.

Hunters have pets and two hand melee lines, and speed song from Beastcraft as well. Helps to round out their kit.
Rangers have self buffs, including a hefty self damage add, and speed song to round out their kit.

Scouts have slam. A speccable line, to be sure, and which can be augmented with MoBlocking, and some snares in melee trees, but thats it.

Grun said if the changes are too drastic, they can always be reverted.

Let's see where this goes!

My last fight with Skaipa, he used purge and Ip, I used nothing, and I killed the scout with 60% health left. (The numb bait doesnt work, just fyi ). Just one fight, but I think illustrative that scouts may at least need a little something.

See you on the battlefield, Scouts!!!

-Exo

isnt skaipa a melee scout? this wouldnt be a very good example of a scout snaring you and then getting a shitload of distance to finish unloading on you.

Problem is, as Gruen said, the actual amount of time gained is around 2 seconds due to Garrote. So there won't be a "shitload" of distance. This ability really won't be viable against assasins due to this. Not to say, it won't help against others, but not as overpowered as many are claiming. Also, groups aren't going to replace an Armsman with a Scout because of this ability. Let's see how it plays out, but Scouts are still hurting, as are all archers.

assuming you land a garrote. a lot of SBs are high LA spec and dont use garrote that much. as for the snare poison, that assumes you get far enough into your poison rotation to apply it w/o getting slammed.
it is pretty ridic to have two forms of CC that are easily applied. you pretty much cant purge or itll just be wasted.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 7:49 AM by Pao

lrgreen82 wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 6:58 AM
After playing on my SB for the first day of this roll-out. I can now say that anytime I meet a scout 1v1, I will die. I get shield slammed, the scout moves back and hits me with his bow several times before it wears off. This used to be nearly maddening on it's own. But now, even if I purge the shield stun, I can now get hit with this God-like root/snare for 7-14 seconds. The only chance I have after blowing purge is to vanish and hope he doesn't pop me immediately because now I'm disarmed for 30 seconds. God forbid that purge is down and I somehow survive the initial shield stun/pluckfest and get within melee range again only to be rooted in place with nothing but a 7 second throwing axe to possibly interrupt the next onslaught of arrows. This idea needs to be trashed, otherwise the entire stealth community will just be wandering around on their alb scouts wondering where are the Hib/Mid stealthers went.

Thats so laughable, if you have purge you still win. Just through axes after root and you are good. The new style is hart to land and get evaded most of the time until then every braindead sb can apply weapon snare or snare poison.

Now at least scouts can have a fight and not just wait until there is a fight to add.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 9:30 AM by Smoover

ppl will not realise how rediculous strong this is till i go out and rip evry1 and make em mad . beware Au aa will be out to ruin ur days just like staff did with mine . cu out there

Sun 29 Dec 2019 12:40 PM by Cryptoinsomnia

Pao wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:01 PM
Cryptoinsomnia wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 9:08 PM
Its great that you do changes on the scout, but what would be best in my opinion. instead of adding new things, you could try to fix the problem that Crit shot doesnt break bubbles, that is ridicilous, as if Infi couldnt PA/BS through a bubble ---- also the problem with randomly losing stealth when you pull your arrow is very annyoing.

i love the phoenix server and what you guys did in general ;D absolutly fantastic!
Cheers

Always loosing randomly stealth pulling the bow and bubble was never popped by a critshot. This are not bugs.

hm ill be honest i cant say for sure if bubble was popped or not back in the days, i thought it did, back when u needed to be stealthed for the crit shot to work. and randomly losing stealth is normal? could be, same there i cant clearly remember how it used to be, but cant remember that happening on my ranger back in the days

Sun 29 Dec 2019 12:52 PM by Pao

Cryptoinsomnia wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 12:40 PM
Pao wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:01 PM
Cryptoinsomnia wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 9:08 PM
Its great that you do changes on the scout, but what would be best in my opinion. instead of adding new things, you could try to fix the problem that Crit shot doesnt break bubbles, that is ridicilous, as if Infi couldnt PA/BS through a bubble ---- also the problem with randomly losing stealth when you pull your arrow is very annyoing.

i love the phoenix server and what you guys did in general ;D absolutly fantastic!
Cheers

Always loosing randomly stealth pulling the bow and bubble was never popped by a critshot. This are not bugs.

hm ill be honest i cant say for sure if bubble was popped or not back in the days, i thought it did, back when u needed to be stealthed for the crit shot to work. and randomly losing stealth is normal? could be, same there i cant clearly remember how it used to be, but cant remember that happening on my ranger back in the days

I played a gimp hunter during classic, even before the pet became instant. There was always a chance you get kicked out of stealth doing a critshot and selfcasted bubble was unbreakable. Penetrating arrow works only on pulsing BT.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 1:55 PM by Tyrlaan

Pao wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 12:52 PM
I played a gimp hunter during classic, even before the pet became instant. There was always a chance you get kicked out of stealth doing a critshot and selfcasted bubble was unbreakable. Penetrating arrow works only on pulsing BT.

Yeah the chance to unstealth on critshot was always there. And it didn´t penetrate self BT (Penetrating Arrow only helps with BT cast by another class).

However at that time Scouts also had: Assist critshots (nerfed on Phoenix). The slam-critshot combo (nerfed on Phoenix). And better range than the other archers so better archery for crappy melee abilities (I´m sure Rangers and Hunters enjoyed their Scout bow range).

This style is to help Scouts specifically (i.e. in a line no other archer class gets) and it has a precedent in the Valkyrie Shield style Pin. I would love to see other Shield styles to heavy tanks as well btw. (Shield Swipe ect).

And no, this style will not see Scouts into 8mans, just like they never included assassins for their anytime snares (the spam garrotte, unbreakable snare and disease poison combo is much more devastating). Way too susceptible to CC, counter-peeling or just being blown up. Melee Rangers or Shadowzerks may work as a filler but get dropped the second a BM or Zerk logs on.

Putting this style somewhere where hardly anyone will spec it (whereas all Rangers and Hunters spec their buff line, get their instant speed ect) would make this change pretty non-existent btw.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 3:21 PM by Parole

New style is great. It will not make a scout win all of his/her fights but it will make it more difficult for all of those high RR assassins to destroy you. Let’s face it, everyone on this server has purge, and timers reset quickly. 99% of all battles my 1v1 target purges my “l33t”scout ability immediately. I think the change is great and definitely makes scout more fun.

Easy counter is to throw axes for SBs and NS to cast spells. It won’t kill me, but it’ll probably keep me from killing you.

See you out there.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 7:27 PM by lrgreen82

Pao wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 7:49 AM
lrgreen82 wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 6:58 AM
After playing on my SB for the first day of this roll-out. I can now say that anytime I meet a scout 1v1, I will die. I get shield slammed, the scout moves back and hits me with his bow several times before it wears off. This used to be nearly maddening on it's own. But now, even if I purge the shield stun, I can now get hit with this God-like root/snare for 7-14 seconds. The only chance I have after blowing purge is to vanish and hope he doesn't pop me immediately because now I'm disarmed for 30 seconds. God forbid that purge is down and I somehow survive the initial shield stun/pluckfest and get within melee range again only to be rooted in place with nothing but a 7 second throwing axe to possibly interrupt the next onslaught of arrows. This idea needs to be trashed, otherwise the entire stealth community will just be wandering around on their alb scouts wondering where are the Hib/Mid stealthers went.

Thats so laughable, if you have purge you still win. Just through axes after root and you are good. The new style is hart to land and get evaded most of the time until then every braindead sb can apply weapon snare or snare poison.

Now at least scouts can have a fight and not just wait until there is a fight to add.

If it's laughable, I challenge you to try it. You tell me how doable it is. Even braindead SBs know that snare poison + Garrote isn't as effective as the scout's 99% 14 second snare. There should be no reason why any ranged stealther should be able to go toe to toe with a strictly melee stealther class. Their strength is their range. Play to strengths. Don't make everything even across the board, otherwise there's no point to having different classes.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 8:53 PM by Tyrlaan

lrgreen82 wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 7:27 PM
Pao wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 7:49 AM
lrgreen82 wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 6:58 AM
After playing on my SB for the first day of this roll-out. I can now say that anytime I meet a scout 1v1, I will die. I get shield slammed, the scout moves back and hits me with his bow several times before it wears off. This used to be nearly maddening on it's own. But now, even if I purge the shield stun, I can now get hit with this God-like root/snare for 7-14 seconds. The only chance I have after blowing purge is to vanish and hope he doesn't pop me immediately because now I'm disarmed for 30 seconds. God forbid that purge is down and I somehow survive the initial shield stun/pluckfest and get within melee range again only to be rooted in place with nothing but a 7 second throwing axe to possibly interrupt the next onslaught of arrows. This idea needs to be trashed, otherwise the entire stealth community will just be wandering around on their alb scouts wondering where are the Hib/Mid stealthers went.

Thats so laughable, if you have purge you still win. Just through axes after root and you are good. The new style is hart to land and get evaded most of the time until then every braindead sb can apply weapon snare or snare poison.

Now at least scouts can have a fight and not just wait until there is a fight to add.

If it's laughable, I challenge you to try it. You tell me how doable it is. Even braindead SBs know that snare poison + Garrote isn't as effective as the scout's 99% 14 second snare. There should be no reason why any ranged stealther should be able to go toe to toe with a strictly melee stealther class. Their strength is their range. Play to strengths. Don't make everything even across the board, otherwise there's no point to having different classes.

Uhh so you´re implying it´s Scouts who would go toe to toe with assassins? To snare (and get wrecked and counter-snared, your braindead SB forgot disease btw) so they can get some range again - and play to their strength? Weird concept, or shall I say... you didn´t think this through before you posted. In fact it´s not so much "there should be no reason" but "there is no reason" yet somehow assassins always try to force into melee (despite not being "strictly melee", friendly hint)... a Scout using a better snare than assassins get to gain some range *is* trying to play to their strength. And yes, I´m making a joke out of you.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 10:05 PM by Pao

If range would be their strength. It's a peashooter.

All fights against half ass decent assassins ended with me dead. You don't get much range snared and it's so easy to interrupt you.

It's not about beating sins its about being able to win a 1vs1. We have mincer, champs, SM, Thanes, buffed friar bds and necros. How a low bow dmg scout can excist in such a world?

It's laughable to hear a sb cry about one simple skill scouts got...

Sun 29 Dec 2019 10:54 PM by gromet12

lrgreen82 wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 7:27 PM
If it's laughable, I challenge you to try it. You tell me how doable it is. Even braindead SBs know that snare poison + Garrote isn't as effective as the scout's 99% 14 second snare. There should be no reason why any ranged stealther should be able to go toe to toe with a strictly melee stealther class. Their strength is their range. Play to strengths. Don't make everything even across the board, otherwise there's no point to having different classes.

We agree on that...Can archers then get the tools back they lost here with no detection bonus on MOS which allowed them to use range? The fix is simple, give archers range detection bonus on MOS and if you want to fix bow dmg give archers the archery fix patch

I’ve seen a few crazy ideas for fixes, the overwhelming is to give back detection bonus so the archer can use his ranged weapon in the most common fights he will encounter. If I start a fight in pure melee to a sin, I should lose that fight. I have less defense, no debuffs, no dots, etc etc....However that changes if I land my openers, then it becomes more of a fight. I would think sins would welcome a good challenge, however a lot seem to just camp relic docks to kill lowbies

Sun 29 Dec 2019 11:13 PM by Riac

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 10:54 PM
lrgreen82 wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 7:27 PM
If it's laughable, I challenge you to try it. You tell me how doable it is. Even braindead SBs know that snare poison + Garrote isn't as effective as the scout's 99% 14 second snare. There should be no reason why any ranged stealther should be able to go toe to toe with a strictly melee stealther class. Their strength is their range. Play to strengths. Don't make everything even across the board, otherwise there's no point to having different classes.

We agree on that...Can archers then get the tools back they lost here with no detection bonus on MOS which allowed them to use range? The fix is simple, give archers range detection bonus on MOS and if you want to fix bow dmg give archers the archery fix patch

I’ve seen a few crazy ideas for fixes, the overwhelming is to give back detection bonus so the archer can use his ranged weapon in the most common fights he will encounter. If I start a fight in pure melee to a sin, I should lose that fight. I have less defense, no debuffs, no dots, etc etc....However that changes if I land my openers, then it becomes more of a fight. I would think sins would welcome a good challenge, however a lot seem to just camp relic docks to kill lowbies

so what you are saying is that the archer should get the opportunity of first strike on the sin? the sin has a whole spec line, and is specced heavily into, that is almost entirely focused on first strike. sounds crazy to me.

i think ppl should just understand what they are getting into when they decide to play a class based around archery.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 11:20 PM by Riac

its a ranged class, much in the way that casters are ranged classes. when they fuck up their ranged and get too close to melee, they lose. MOC lifetap is just dumb though, i think disease should effect lifetaps (weapon procs too).

Mon 30 Dec 2019 9:29 AM by inoeth

@riac

why do you want some classes to be unplayable gimp? its not about scouts killing assassins, its about scouts killing any class. and yes its a ranged class and therefore needs range. the new shield style fits perfectly into this. you mentioned casters, casters have quick cast and moc, scouts had nothing. the scout was in fact bound to camping keeps or heavily grp up to kill a solo LOL.

imo you and your fellow "scout need to be easy rp class" are just mean, that scout now actually have a chance to kill someone.

as i said many times before, after all this is a game which purpose is to be fun, scout was no fun at all.
i really apreciate this well thought through change which is giving the scout his unique playstyle being the archer he has always been.
btw cant understand the "make everything even" point ... its obvious that rangers/hunters are very different

Mon 30 Dec 2019 8:22 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Dec 2019 9:29 AM
@riac

why do you want some classes to be unplayable gimp? its not about scouts killing assassins, its about scouts killing any class. and yes its a ranged class and therefore needs range. the new shield style fits perfectly into this. you mentioned casters, casters have quick cast and moc, scouts had nothing. the scout was in fact bound to camping keeps or heavily grp up to kill a solo LOL.

imo you and your fellow "scout need to be easy rp class" are just mean, that scout now actually have a chance to kill someone.

as i said many times before, after all this is a game which purpose is to be fun, scout was no fun at all.
i really apreciate this well thought through change which is giving the scout his unique playstyle being the archer he has always been.
btw cant understand the "make everything even" point ... its obvious that rangers/hunters are very different

Yes. Rangers and Hunters already have snare styles in their melee lines... and Scouts don't?

Mon 30 Dec 2019 8:46 PM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Dec 2019 8:22 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Dec 2019 9:29 AM
@riac

why do you want some classes to be unplayable gimp? its not about scouts killing assassins, its about scouts killing any class. and yes its a ranged class and therefore needs range. the new shield style fits perfectly into this. you mentioned casters, casters have quick cast and moc, scouts had nothing. the scout was in fact bound to camping keeps or heavily grp up to kill a solo LOL.

imo you and your fellow "scout need to be easy rp class" are just mean, that scout now actually have a chance to kill someone.

as i said many times before, after all this is a game which purpose is to be fun, scout was no fun at all.
i really apreciate this well thought through change which is giving the scout his unique playstyle being the archer he has always been.
btw cant understand the "make everything even" point ... its obvious that rangers/hunters are very different

Yes. Rangers and Hunters already have snare styles in their melee lines... and Scouts don't?

?

Mon 30 Dec 2019 9:11 PM by Riac

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Dec 2019 9:29 AM
imo you and your fellow "scout need to be easy rp class" are just mean, that scout now actually have a chance to kill someone.

i dont think they should be relegated to easy rps, i think scout should straight up not be a class. archery is a lame mechanic in this game. just lame ass ppl who add on anything they see.
ppl that play archers have to be some of the WORST dac players ive ever seen. the amount of times ive engaged a ranger and they wont even swap to melee weapons until the fight is damn near over (i dont think they even know what their keybind is lol) just to have them pop IP anyways lol. it makes me smile everytime.

Tue 31 Dec 2019 8:25 AM by inoeth

Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Dec 2019 9:11 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Dec 2019 9:29 AM
imo you and your fellow "scout need to be easy rp class" are just mean, that scout now actually have a chance to kill someone.

i dont think they should be relegated to easy rps, i think scout should straight up not be a class. archery is a lame mechanic in this game. just lame ass ppl who add on anything they see.
ppl that play archers have to be some of the WORST dac players ive ever seen. the amount of times ive engaged a ranger and they wont even swap to melee weapons until the fight is damn near over (i dont think they even know what their keybind is lol) just to have them pop IP anyways lol. it makes me smile everytime.

i invite you to meet my archers, but be sure to order a coffin before

Tue 31 Dec 2019 2:17 PM by protege

Parole wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 3:21 PM
New style is great. It will not make a scout win all of his/her fights but it will make it more difficult for all of those high RR assassins to destroy you. Let’s face it, everyone on this server has purge, and timers reset quickly. 99% of all battles my 1v1 target purges my “l33t”scout ability immediately. I think the change is great and definitely makes scout more fun.

Easy counter is to throw axes for SBs and NS to cast spells. It won’t kill me, but it’ll probably keep me from killing you.

See you out there.

It’ll keep you from killing them, but what about your 4 butt buddies you run with every night?

Tue 31 Dec 2019 10:27 PM by Riac

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Dec 2019 8:25 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Dec 2019 9:11 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Dec 2019 9:29 AM
imo you and your fellow "scout need to be easy rp class" are just mean, that scout now actually have a chance to kill someone.

i dont think they should be relegated to easy rps, i think scout should straight up not be a class. archery is a lame mechanic in this game. just lame ass ppl who add on anything they see.
ppl that play archers have to be some of the WORST dac players ive ever seen. the amount of times ive engaged a ranger and they wont even swap to melee weapons until the fight is damn near over (i dont think they even know what their keybind is lol) just to have them pop IP anyways lol. it makes me smile everytime.

i invite you to meet my archers, but be sure to order a coffin before

whats your scouts name?