As so often in my DAoC life I came online with my character and wanted to do some RvR. Since I favor the Savage as a main character for years, I have logged this on Phoenix. I was aware from the start that this class on Phoenix is not playable solo, for various reasons such as: no speed, no Hastenerpots or horses. Nevertheless, I went off and was killed every run of duos and groups without a chance to have a chance. Since I do not want to play a SB or Skald now, I can not do a solo RvR. Since I just want to concentrate on one class to increase the RR. As you know, not everything was good at Classic times, so Broadsword did the right thing and implemented horses. Thus, EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME has the opportunity to solo in the RvR without being able to be killed immediately on sight. For my part, the following now remains: I am forced to play a class I do not want to play because I want to stay at the Savage OR to play another game as long as my friends are not online. Unfortunately, there are only these options. Each solo player will be limited to the classes (Skald, SB, Hunter, Infi, Scout, Minstrel, Ranger, Nightshade). I have been playing since 2002 and the best thing that could happen to solo players was horses that can run away from a majority. Now I'm just waiting for the comments of the 8 players, Zerg players and Smallys to hate the horses because you can not run the solos any more, because there is no other reason not to install the horses
Soloplaying will fail because.....
Started 29 Jul 2018
by
Bigga
in
Tavern
Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:25 AM
by
aso
no horses would be ok if the rvr map would be molvik, cathal or some other bg
but not in this big maps we got right now.
but not in this big maps we got right now.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:27 AM
by
Bigga
Yes you are right. At that time the OF Map was not well covered. The NF was better (with old bridges !!!!) and Cathal is a really nice playground for EVERY type of player, as even solo savages can start and when you die, stand by again as the road is not ready
Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:31 AM
by
Der_Eisbaer
So what you are saying is, people should be banned when they do not play solo RvR?
Seriously:
In principle every char can succesfully played in solo RvR, with the possible exception of Wizard and Eldritch.
Nevertheless chosing a Savage of all things as a strict solo RvR toon in my opinion is not the wisest of choices.
In any case you have chosen to follow this path, it is your choice, and therefore it is up to you to bear the responsibility that goes along with this choice.
Seriously:
In principle every char can succesfully played in solo RvR, with the possible exception of Wizard and Eldritch.
Nevertheless chosing a Savage of all things as a strict solo RvR toon in my opinion is not the wisest of choices.
In any case you have chosen to follow this path, it is your choice, and therefore it is up to you to bear the responsibility that goes along with this choice.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:51 AM
by
aso
where did he write this?Der_Eisbaer wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:31 AMSo what you are saying is, people should be banned when they do not play solo RvR?
in principle everyone can win lotteryDer_Eisbaer wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:31 AMIn principle every char can succesfully played in solo RvR, with the possible exception of Wizard and Eldritch.
thats your opinionDer_Eisbaer wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:31 AMNevertheless chosing a Savage of all things as a strict solo RvR toon in my opinion is not the wisest of choices.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:56 AM
by
Bigga
Der_Eisbaer wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:31 AMSo what you are saying is, people should be banned when they do not play solo RvR?
Seriously:
In principle every char can succesfully played in solo RvR, with the possible exception of Wizard and Eldritch.
Nevertheless chosing a Savage of all things as a strict solo RvR toon in my opinion is not the wisest of choices.
In any case you have chosen to follow this path, it is your choice, and therefore it is up to you to bear the responsibility that goes along with this choice.
You, who is well known for being the 8th and Zergler on Uthgard, want to have a say in Solorvr? It just shows me that you have no idea. Any class can solo RvR, Yes, you're right. but only with horses. Otherwise you will be farmed.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 10:37 AM
by
Der_Eisbaer
aso wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:51 AMwhere did he write this?
Nowhere - this statement by me has been a joke, I thought that was obvious because it is so ridiculous.
aso wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:51 AMin principle everyone can win lottery
Correct, but some more than others depending on much they are willing to invest.
Actually, this very much points to the core of what I am trying to say:
Assuming that you want to achieve something that you realistically can achieve then it is up to you to make the necessary investments plus to enable yourself to withstand the inevitable failure.
If you fail to do this and thus fail to achieve - again, assuming that you want to achieve something that you realistically can achieve! - then it is nobody's fault but your own.
To me it looks like that the thread starter is not willing to do this but instead wishes somebody else to solve his problem which is something that I deem to be an inferior strategy and I do not see a reason to not point this out.
aso wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:51 AMthats your opinion
Quite precisely, that's why I have actually written it in the sentence which you quoted.
Bigga wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:56 AMYou, who is well known for being the 8th and Zergler on Uthgard, want to have a say in Solorvr?
I am afraid as long as it complies with the rules you will have to let me have a say in anything that comes across my mind, no matter what you claim me to be well known for.
Bigga wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:56 AMIt just shows me that you have no idea. Any class can solo RvR, Yes, you're right. but only with horses. Otherwise you will be farmed.
And this is where we disagree:
Nothing can prevent a soloer from being farmed, not even the fastest horses. Period.
Reason is that you can never fully account for everything that can happen in a rather free sandbox PvP environment like the one that DAoC offers.
Let's just assume for a moment that you indeed are riding away from a full group then you may run into another one, or into a Zerg or into roaming keep guards... you name it.
Which leads to the question: What's next to be implemented when the implementation of horses does not sufficiently fulfill your wish for not being farmed as a soloer?
And what comes after that?
Therefore in my opinion you rather need to prepare to die under circumstances which you desire unfair or undesirable - which, again, is your sole responsibility and cannot be in any way be done by anybody else.
One last important thing:
I am not of the opinion and am not saying that one should never ask for any improvements to the game design - quite the contrary!
I do however say that whenever one wishes for improvements then these should be chosen in a way that they better help to bear the consequences of the choices made ingame instead of asking for a removal of them.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 12:56 PM
by
Bigga
Let's just assume for a moment that you indeed are riding away from a full group then you may run into another one, or into a Zerg or into roaming keep guards... you name it.
Which leads to the question: What's next to be implemented when the implementation of horses does not sufficiently fulfill your wish for not being farmed as a soloer?
The chance will always exist that I run into another group, which can not be prevented. Still, the chance is 100% higher that I could escape this one group hunting me. It's fact, even you can not deny that there are several classes on live going solo (Friars, VW's etc.) so pretty much all the classes are in solo RvR. On Phoenix there will be individual classes as mentioned above. But that kills the charm of variety. Because I also do not want to fight against Infis / NS / Scouts ONLY.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 1:12 PM
by
Fk_
Always seemed to me the game was balanced about group play. Soloing is a niche, and if you chose to do so on a Savage, adapt.
Go to DF/marfach/Dodens, camp a MG: use terrain to your advantage etc.
What kind of speed would you like on your horse? Same as Sorc/warden? What would be the interest of those spells for those classes then, now everyone has access to the same speed as them?
Go to DF/marfach/Dodens, camp a MG: use terrain to your advantage etc.
What kind of speed would you like on your horse? Same as Sorc/warden? What would be the interest of those spells for those classes then, now everyone has access to the same speed as them?
Sun 29 Jul 2018 1:17 PM
by
Rabbitstew
Remember, if horses are implemented, Casters will need a buff of some kind for balancing purposes.
My reasoning was already laid out here: https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=882&start=40
Not saying they shouldn't be added, but rather that the staff will have a lot more to do than just "Added speed 5 Horses, GLHF".
My reasoning was already laid out here: https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=882&start=40
Not saying they shouldn't be added, but rather that the staff will have a lot more to do than just "Added speed 5 Horses, GLHF".
Sun 29 Jul 2018 1:34 PM
by
Bigga
then how about a solo area ? cathal ? pvp zone? no access for 8 mans or grp player? ^^ i know i know its shit ... cause u zerg/8man player cant farm soloers anymore. right?
cathal is totally nice for solo , how about to make a pvp arena? i mean, why not? if you rabbit say , solo is a niche .... soo why not make an pvp arena ... and i would say 20% of the community are soloers
cathal is totally nice for solo , how about to make a pvp arena? i mean, why not? if you rabbit say , solo is a niche .... soo why not make an pvp arena ... and i would say 20% of the community are soloers
Sun 29 Jul 2018 1:56 PM
by
Ceen
The people crying on Uthgard just swapped the forum it seems ^^
Sun 29 Jul 2018 2:10 PM
by
Rabbitstew
I never called solo-play niche, nor do I believe it is. I am and have been mainly a solo player for Uth1, Uth2, and probably on live here. I understand the struggles of this playstyle in this version of DAOC. I'm merely pointing out other areas of the game that will be inadvertently affected by the addition of horses, and will need adjusting for balance's sake.
As for a "solo" PvP arena of some kind, I wouldn't be against it. But how will the "solo" rules be enforced? People can still "group" up together to gank others without entering an official group. And that will be common, I have no doubt, which makes the "solo" arena not so "solo" anymore.
As for a "solo" PvP arena of some kind, I wouldn't be against it. But how will the "solo" rules be enforced? People can still "group" up together to gank others without entering an official group. And that will be common, I have no doubt, which makes the "solo" arena not so "solo" anymore.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 2:52 PM
by
Varano
OP is 100% correct
Horses do not break the game in any way because once you are attacked you drop off your horse and have to re-summon it without being interrupted, whereas other speed classes have it on pulse and don't have to stop to regain speed.
I would love to see horses here to help solo play.
Just makes sense.
Horses do not break the game in any way because once you are attacked you drop off your horse and have to re-summon it without being interrupted, whereas other speed classes have it on pulse and don't have to stop to regain speed.
I would love to see horses here to help solo play.
Just makes sense.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:16 PM
by
Quik
If you want speed then play a speed class or get a speed friend.
I am against buff bots because it removes the need for a buffing class . I would even prefer fewer or no pots honestly except in PvE. Each class has a role and its the little things that kills them.
Same for horses, they may not be optimal but they still help replace something.
I ran around on my Skald last night and quickly picked up a few others who needed speed. It was a lot of fun and I got a few RA's out of it. With horses it is just another reason to maybe not add a certain class as quick. yes I know they take time to summon and they can be a pain to use but regardless, it still has an impact.
I am all for helping soloers as I love soloing on my BD, but not at the expense of anything that replaces another class.
Horses for PvE I don't really like but meh who cares.
No horses for RvR plz.
I am against buff bots because it removes the need for a buffing class . I would even prefer fewer or no pots honestly except in PvE. Each class has a role and its the little things that kills them.
Same for horses, they may not be optimal but they still help replace something.
I ran around on my Skald last night and quickly picked up a few others who needed speed. It was a lot of fun and I got a few RA's out of it. With horses it is just another reason to maybe not add a certain class as quick. yes I know they take time to summon and they can be a pain to use but regardless, it still has an impact.
I am all for helping soloers as I love soloing on my BD, but not at the expense of anything that replaces another class.
Horses for PvE I don't really like but meh who cares.
No horses for RvR plz.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:57 PM
by
aso
soloing on bd ^^ very difficult solo classQuik wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:16 PMI am all for helping soloers as I love soloing on my BD, but not at the expense of anything that replaces another class.
and you like to get rekt 8vs1? because thats exactly what will happen ALL THE TIME
of you plan to hide somewhere with your bd? behind a tree?
Sun 29 Jul 2018 5:27 PM
by
Bigga
Quik wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:16 PMIf you want speed then play a speed class or get a speed friend.
I am against buff bots because it removes the need for a buffing class . I would even prefer fewer or no pots honestly except in PvE. Each class has a role and its the little things that kills them.
Same for horses, they may not be optimal but they still help replace something.
I ran around on my Skald last night and quickly picked up a few others who needed speed. It was a lot of fun and I got a few RA's out of it. With horses it is just another reason to maybe not add a certain class as quick. yes I know they take time to summon and they can be a pain to use but regardless, it still has an impact.
I am all for helping soloers as I love soloing on my BD, but not at the expense of anything that replaces another class.
Horses for PvE I don't really like but meh who cares.
No horses for RvR plz.
So..... WHERE does Horses replace any class on ywain at all?!? i never seen a full horse group *lol* ..... i just see solos and duos riding a horse, and thats totally ok ..... ya for sure u just see your point, cuz u run a skald .... a horse will NEVER replace a skald, in many many ways ..... but you wont understand! speedclasses are not only there for speed .... but you should know, do you?
the point is easy and everybody can understand who run solo ...... we wont have fights against some friars/armsman/palys or something else
cuz there wont be any solos who play this classes...... cuz they get killed in sight of 8mans it will be more worse when server goes live ..... when 3k player + there ....
Sun 29 Jul 2018 5:49 PM
by
Quik
Bigga wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 5:27 PMQuik wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:16 PMIf you want speed then play a speed class or get a speed friend.
I am against buff bots because it removes the need for a buffing class . I would even prefer fewer or no pots honestly except in PvE. Each class has a role and its the little things that kills them.
Same for horses, they may not be optimal but they still help replace something.
I ran around on my Skald last night and quickly picked up a few others who needed speed. It was a lot of fun and I got a few RA's out of it. With horses it is just another reason to maybe not add a certain class as quick. yes I know they take time to summon and they can be a pain to use but regardless, it still has an impact.
I am all for helping soloers as I love soloing on my BD, but not at the expense of anything that replaces another class.
Horses for PvE I don't really like but meh who cares.
No horses for RvR plz.
So..... WHERE does Horses replace any class on ywain at all?!? i never seen a full horse group *lol* ..... i just see solos and duos riding a horse, and thats totally ok ..... ya for sure u just see your point, cuz u run a skald .... a horse will NEVER replace a skald, in many many ways ..... but you wont understand! speedclasses are not only there for speed .... but you should know, do you?
the point is easy and everybody can understand who run solo ...... we wont have fights against some friars/armsman/palys or something else
I get what you are saying and I understand it...
I do NOT believe horses are the answer for RvR. 8mans are going to kill people on horses as well as not on hroses...won't make a difference either way unless you give the horses the same speed as speed classes. You really think a horse moving at blue speed will be ignored by an 8 man when they have a max speed class? Horses will make zero impact for that situation.
I do think they hurt steatlhers. I hate stealthers but I do know when I was solo on foot I got nailed a lot. When I was solo and on a horse I rarely got killed.
I do not think horses fix the issue.
Like Phoenix eggs and xp items, lets see if the Phoenix staff have a better solution.
I hope they get the small group/duo/solo group thing figured out for everyone, but IMHO horses ruined a lot of RvR fun for me. Maybe I am the only one, but I personally do not want horses.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 5:51 PM
by
Quik
aso wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:57 PMsoloing on bd ^^ very difficult solo classQuik wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:16 PMI am all for helping soloers as I love soloing on my BD, but not at the expense of anything that replaces another class.
and you like to get rekt 8vs1? because thats exactly what will happen ALL THE TIME
of you plan to hide somewhere with your bd? behind a tree?
Do I enjoy it? Nope not at all. Do I think horses should be added so I can avoid it? Nope. Do I have an answer? Nope, I just don't think horses are it. Horses ruined a lot of RvR fun for me when we had them on live.
Play a class without speed means you don't have speed. I accept it with my BD and I like it with my skald.
If you want speed then play a class with speed.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 7:36 PM
by
Varano
horses are not group-wide pulse spells, therefor they do not take the place of a skald/bard/minst
Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:29 PM
by
Magesty
I don’t know how many times this horse is going to get beaten.
Horses are not the answer to the issues with being a solo/small man player in OF. I and others have posted in the various solo/small man threads explaining some of the core problems with soloing/small manning in old frontiers and why horses aren’t the answer. Most of the names I’m seeing here have been in those same threads and have ignored those responses— instead moving to greener pastures.
Horses are a uncomfortable band aid on an issue that will take more to fix properly. They also disrupt balance in terms of melee vs ranged gameplay, in combat vs out of combat players, add unnecessary mechanics to the game, and indirectly nerf certain lower-tier speed classes. Non music speed classes need places to hide/camp and route options with cover that skirt major choke points. It isn’t a matter of speed.
Horses are not the answer to the issues with being a solo/small man player in OF. I and others have posted in the various solo/small man threads explaining some of the core problems with soloing/small manning in old frontiers and why horses aren’t the answer. Most of the names I’m seeing here have been in those same threads and have ignored those responses— instead moving to greener pastures.
Horses are a uncomfortable band aid on an issue that will take more to fix properly. They also disrupt balance in terms of melee vs ranged gameplay, in combat vs out of combat players, add unnecessary mechanics to the game, and indirectly nerf certain lower-tier speed classes. Non music speed classes need places to hide/camp and route options with cover that skirt major choke points. It isn’t a matter of speed.
Sun 29 Jul 2018 11:26 PM
by
Quik
Magesty wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:29 PMI don’t know how many times this horse is going to get beaten.
Horses are not the answer to the issues with being a solo/small man player in OF. I and others have posted in the various solo/small man threads explaining some of the core problems with soloing/small manning in old frontiers and why horses aren’t the answer. Most of the names I’m seeing here have been in those same threads and have ignored those responses— instead moving to greener pastures.
Horses are a uncomfortable band aid on an issue that will take more to fix properly. They also disrupt balance in terms of melee vs ranged gameplay, in combat vs out of combat players, add unnecessary mechanics to the game, and indirectly nerf certain lower-tier speed classes. Non music speed classes need places to hide/camp and route options with cover that skirt major choke points. It isn’t a matter of speed.
This is perfectly worded.
Horses ruined it for me before and they will again.
We need to figure out something else and I am at a loss as to what, but horses are not it.
Keep them out of the game.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 12:21 AM
by
Ganaka
Magesty wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:29 PMI don’t know how many times this horse is going to get beaten.
Horses are not the answer to the issues with being a solo/small man player in OF. I and others have posted in the various solo/small man threads explaining some of the core problems with soloing/small manning in old frontiers and why horses aren’t the answer. Most of the names I’m seeing here have been in those same threads and have ignored those responses— instead moving to greener pastures.
Horses are a uncomfortable band aid on an issue that will take more to fix properly. They also disrupt balance in terms of melee vs ranged gameplay, in combat vs out of combat players, add unnecessary mechanics to the game, and indirectly nerf certain lower-tier speed classes. Non music speed classes need places to hide/camp and route options with cover that skirt major choke points. It isn’t a matter of speed.
This! ^^
For me, the beauty of DAOC is that no class is a 'superman' and no one player can be indestructible. All classes have flaws, some more than others, but they all have areas where they do not excel. There are tons of new MMO's that have classes that are only different by the slightest margin to achieve balance. Lose this character of DAOC and I'm gone, and I'm probably not alone.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 6:57 AM
by
aso
Horses are not the answer to the issues with being a solo/small man player in OF
they are because there is no better answer, or you got one? just take a look how many solo/smallman vids are available from live where ppl BECAUSE of horses can do that.
They also disrupt balance in terms of melee vs ranged gameplay
They dont disrupt balance in terms of melee vs ranged gameplay, did you ever use a horse on live? you know that you loose the horse as soon as you get effected by SOMETHING.
Non music speed classes need places to hide/camp and route options with cover that skirt major choke points. It isn’t a matter of speed.
8mans will find you and kill you ALL THE TIME, you think you can hide all the time, or take a stone or tree with you? when they see you, you die. period.
Horses ruined it for me before and they will again.
haha this is the reason me and my crew couldnt stop laughing. how did the ruin the game for you as a solo player? only case i see is from the view of a 8man player who cant kill all solos smallmans on sight
For me, the beauty of DAOC is that no class is a 'superman' and no one player can be indestructible. All classes have flaws, some more than others, but they all have areas where they do not excel. There are tons of new MMO's that have classes that are only different by the slightest margin to achieve balance. Lose this character of DAOC and I'm gone, and I'm probably not alone.
you think a horse with 5-10 sec spawntime makes a class to superman? i dont care what game you think daoc is seriously. some of us just love the mechanics we dont give a f... about putting on a chain armor, growing a 15cm long beard and going to war for our realm. this will end up in a only8man, stealther, zergserver, that will force many ppl with different playstyles to quit.
they are because there is no better answer, or you got one? just take a look how many solo/smallman vids are available from live where ppl BECAUSE of horses can do that.
They also disrupt balance in terms of melee vs ranged gameplay
They dont disrupt balance in terms of melee vs ranged gameplay, did you ever use a horse on live? you know that you loose the horse as soon as you get effected by SOMETHING.
Non music speed classes need places to hide/camp and route options with cover that skirt major choke points. It isn’t a matter of speed.
8mans will find you and kill you ALL THE TIME, you think you can hide all the time, or take a stone or tree with you? when they see you, you die. period.
Horses ruined it for me before and they will again.
haha this is the reason me and my crew couldnt stop laughing. how did the ruin the game for you as a solo player? only case i see is from the view of a 8man player who cant kill all solos smallmans on sight
For me, the beauty of DAOC is that no class is a 'superman' and no one player can be indestructible. All classes have flaws, some more than others, but they all have areas where they do not excel. There are tons of new MMO's that have classes that are only different by the slightest margin to achieve balance. Lose this character of DAOC and I'm gone, and I'm probably not alone.
you think a horse with 5-10 sec spawntime makes a class to superman? i dont care what game you think daoc is seriously. some of us just love the mechanics we dont give a f... about putting on a chain armor, growing a 15cm long beard and going to war for our realm. this will end up in a only8man, stealther, zergserver, that will force many ppl with different playstyles to quit.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 8:07 AM
by
Chiki
So you want speed 5 horses and really think that dont affect the “real“ speed classes?
Mon 30 Jul 2018 8:13 AM
by
Ceen
We need labyrinth.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 2:42 PM
by
Aincrad
Allowing users to use horses in RvR DOES affect gameplay. No matter how you look at it, it will affect game play. Period. Stop saying it doesn't because it does and will.
I never 8man and always solo/small man rvr. I agree, I do NOT want horses to be usable in RvR as it will affect balance of game, even for Solo players.
I never 8man and always solo/small man rvr. I agree, I do NOT want horses to be usable in RvR as it will affect balance of game, even for Solo players.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 2:50 PM
by
Bigga
Aincrad wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 2:42 PMAllowing users to use horses in RvR DOES affect gameplay. No matter how you look at it, it will affect game play. Period. Stop saying it doesn't because it does and will.
I never 8man and always solo/small man rvr. I agree, I do NOT want horses to be usable in RvR as it will affect balance of game, even for Solo players.
Ok its simple, explain us WHY and HOW do you think it will affect the balance of the game?
Mon 30 Jul 2018 3:06 PM
by
Bigga
We generally talk about horses. This was just my first consideration because I know this from Ywain, there I saw it as a very good feature. It can be any other form that allows various classes such as Savage, Friar, etc., to go solo into the RvR without having to run very long and being immediately rewound (because that's what the groups and Zerg players do EXACTLY) I'm sure I will not waste my time and go solo with Savage. Of course, some people now call themselves soloists, but have a hunch or think it's great to run for 10 minutes into the RvR and then get kicked off to get started again. Not everyone wants to play Stealther in the Sologameplay. Would be great if it goes for all classes, because the game is very great made in its diversity. Why limit this to only individual classes. See Thanechanges, he got DET, which makes him useful in the grouprvr, why was that done? Because he is useless for a group without DET.
Would be great if someone comes up with a grandiose idea that no one has ever come up with to enable classes like Savage the solo RvR.
Would be great if someone comes up with a grandiose idea that no one has ever come up with to enable classes like Savage the solo RvR.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 3:12 PM
by
Rabbitstew
This whole "Horses don't affect gameplay/balance" argument is ridiculous, and it's being said so much while being refuted so often that I'm starting to wonder if people are intentionally trolling. I will repost my examples from the other thread:
These are simple examples, but they clearly show that horses can and will affect gameplay and the resulting balance between solo'ers or smallman groups. Add horses or don't, I'm still on the fence, but stop trolling with the "horses won't affect anything" nonsense.
Everyone needs to remember that having speed5/6 horses will change the dynamic of melee vs ranged.
Example One: Player 1 (Tank) and Player 2 (Caster) see each other across the field, at clipping range. Player 1 charges forward, covering a massive distance between the two. Player 2 casts their CC at the incoming enemy, and their spell lands with the target just a few hundred units away.
[[ RESULT: Player 1 closed the gap considerably more than before, forcing Player 2 to compensate. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
Example Two: Player 1 (Tank) and Player 2 (Caster) see each other but have a structure (bridge, wall, gate, etc.) separating them. Player 2 must play incredibly defensive, as they know that Player 1 can round a corner near-instantly to force a melee. Even a 500-800 unit distance can quickly become nothing if Player 2 blinks for too long or is otherwise distracted.
[[ RESULT: Player 2 must play more defensive and have good reaction speed to avoid a possible insta-melee with Player 1. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
Conclusion: Horses give an Advantage (buff) to melee/tanks and Disadvantage (nerf) to ranged/casters.
These are simple examples, but they clearly show that horses can and will affect gameplay and the resulting balance between solo'ers or smallman groups. Add horses or don't, I'm still on the fence, but stop trolling with the "horses won't affect anything" nonsense.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 3:17 PM
by
Aincrad
Rabbitstew wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 3:12 PMThis whole "Horses don't affect gameplay/balance" argument is ridiculous, and it's being said so much while being refuted so often that I'm starting to wonder if people are intentionally trolling. I will repost my examples from the other thread:Everyone needs to remember that having speed5/6 horses will change the dynamic of melee vs ranged.
Example One: Player 1 (Tank) and Player 2 (Caster) see each other across the field, at clipping range. Player 1 charges forward, covering a massive distance between the two. Player 2 casts their CC at the incoming enemy, and their spell lands with the target just a few hundred units away.
[[ RESULT: Player 1 closed the gap considerably more than before, forcing Player 2 to compensate. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
Example Two: Player 1 (Tank) and Player 2 (Caster) see each other but have a structure (bridge, wall, gate, etc.) separating them. Player 2 must play incredibly defensive, as they know that Player 1 can round a corner near-instantly to force a melee. Even a 500-800 unit distance can quickly become nothing if Player 2 blinks for too long or is otherwise distracted.
[[ RESULT: Player 2 must play more defensive and have good reaction speed to avoid a possible insta-melee with Player 1. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
Conclusion: Horses give an Advantage (buff) to melee/tanks and Disadvantage (nerf) to ranged/casters.
These are simple examples, but they clearly show that horses can and will affect gameplay and the resulting balance between solo'ers or smallman groups. Add horses or don't, I'm still on the fence, but stop trolling with the "horses won't affect anything" nonsense.
This ^^....Thank you Rabbit! I was trying to find your post for some examples as this has been discussed in a ton of other threads. Aside from the explanations above there are other examples with Stealthers and Speed classes.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 3:41 PM
by
heardstheword
Bigga wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 2:50 PMOk its simple, explain us WHY and HOW do you think it will affect the balance of the game?
Stealthers soloing will have higher difficulty landing Perfs as well as 'chasing' people around. I tend to follow people if they're just out of reach.
People returning to RvR/zergs by themselves will now have a slight advantage. Getting a kill in RvR will have a less impact if it takes them 90seconds to return to the fight versus the 3-5minutes. (made up numbers).
Also it would be more advantageous to release,heal rvr rez sickness, and run back to battle rather than rez+wait 5min.
Maybe unlikely, but groups will consider the option to run without speed classes. Drop minst and add an extra dps/tank/healer class for a slightly slower speed. It may or may not increase their overall effectiveness as a group to have a "free" group slot.
The level that these things are actually affected vary, but it can't be denied that adding horses does affect things.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:13 PM
by
Bigga
Stealthers soloing will have higher difficulty landing Perfs as well as 'chasing' people around. I tend to follow people if they're just out of reach.
So, you got problems to land your perf ? isnt that selfish? if you cant play assassin that good, then dont play? i never had problems to land perfs. even with horses
People returning to RvR/zergs by themselves will now have a slight advantage. Getting a kill in RvR will have a less impact if it takes them 90seconds to return to the fight versus the 3-5minutes. (made up numbers).
why is it bad to return to fight in 90 seconds insteed 3-5 minutes? you dont like fast action? u prefer roleplay ?
Maybe unlikely, but groups will consider the option to run without speed classes. Drop minst and add an extra dps/tank/healer class for a slightly slower speed. It may or may not increase their overall effectiveness as a group to have a "free" group slot.
i have NEVER seen a group on live who drop minst or skald to put extra dps or healer and this would be dumb as shit, that part of your text show me you have no clue of rvr. how u want kiting without speed? how? what healers do when they cant run away with speed, its soooooo important to have speed.... i never saw a healer in grp who use horse to kite wtf ......
So, you got problems to land your perf ? isnt that selfish? if you cant play assassin that good, then dont play? i never had problems to land perfs. even with horses
People returning to RvR/zergs by themselves will now have a slight advantage. Getting a kill in RvR will have a less impact if it takes them 90seconds to return to the fight versus the 3-5minutes. (made up numbers).
why is it bad to return to fight in 90 seconds insteed 3-5 minutes? you dont like fast action? u prefer roleplay ?
Maybe unlikely, but groups will consider the option to run without speed classes. Drop minst and add an extra dps/tank/healer class for a slightly slower speed. It may or may not increase their overall effectiveness as a group to have a "free" group slot.
i have NEVER seen a group on live who drop minst or skald to put extra dps or healer
and this would be dumb as shit, that part of your text show me you have no clue of rvr. how u want kiting without speed? how? what healers do when they cant run away with speed, its soooooo important to have speed.... i never saw a healer in grp who use horse to kite wtf ......
Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:16 PM
by
heardstheword
Well this "discussion" is clearly getting us all very far...
"Give me examples"
"Your examples are wrong, you're terrible, and I'm right"
"Give me examples"
"Your examples are wrong, you're terrible, and I'm right"
Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:20 PM
by
aso
Example One: Player 1 (Tank) and Player 2 (Caster) see each other across the field, at clipping range. Player 1 charges forward, covering a massive distance between the two. Player 2 casts their CC at the incoming enemy, and their spell lands with the target just a few hundred units away.
[[ RESULT: Player 1 closed the gap considerably more than before, forcing Player 2 to compensate. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
then remove hastener speed also, because it will cause the same problem.
Example Two: Player 1 (Tank) and Player 2 (Caster) see each other but have a structure (bridge, wall, gate, etc.) separating them. Player 2 must play incredibly defensive, as they know that Player 1 can round a corner near-instantly to force a melee. Even a 500-800 unit distance can quickly become nothing if Player 2 blinks for too long or is otherwise distracted.
[[ RESULT: Player 2 must play more defensive and have good reaction speed to avoid a possible insta-melee with Player 1. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
then remove hastener speed also, because it will cause the same problem.
[[ RESULT: Player 1 closed the gap considerably more than before, forcing Player 2 to compensate. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
then remove hastener speed also, because it will cause the same problem.
Example Two: Player 1 (Tank) and Player 2 (Caster) see each other but have a structure (bridge, wall, gate, etc.) separating them. Player 2 must play incredibly defensive, as they know that Player 1 can round a corner near-instantly to force a melee. Even a 500-800 unit distance can quickly become nothing if Player 2 blinks for too long or is otherwise distracted.
[[ RESULT: Player 2 must play more defensive and have good reaction speed to avoid a possible insta-melee with Player 1. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
then remove hastener speed also, because it will cause the same problem.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:22 PM
by
Bigga
Example One: Player 1 (Tank) and Player 2 (Caster) see each other across the field, at clipping range. Player 1 charges forward, covering a massive distance between the two. Player 2 casts their CC at the incoming enemy, and their spell lands with the target just a few hundred units away.
[[ RESULT: Player 1 closed the gap considerably more than before, forcing Player 2 to compensate. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
Player 2 face use instant debuff , both lost horses then. so both are in the same position, so your example is stupid to be honest. You only talk about theories, but which player behaves the same way as you say? Nobody! I play in a different way than you do, but you're just talking about your way of playing a tank or caster and that's not correct. What if the caster gets selfspeed (Enchanter, RM, Sorc) and the tank runs behind without speed? What if, what if, what if, we could talk about it forever, but that does not lead to results.
Example Two: Player 1 (Tank) and Player 2 (Caster) see each other but have a structure (bridge, wall, gate, etc.) separating them. Player 2 must play incredibly defensive, as they know that Player 1 can round a corner near-instantly to force a melee. Even a 500-800 unit distance can quickly become nothing if Player 2 blinks for too long or is otherwise distracted.
[[ RESULT: Player 2 must play more defensive and have good reaction speed to avoid a possible insta-melee with Player 1. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
Player 2 is stupid and shouldnt be at a place where he cant cast wtf?!?!? what kind of examples u throw in the room lol player 2 should run away in open field wtf, why should i play a caster into a close combat area?
You speak from your point of view, from your experience in the RvR. The problem is, you're putting into the room any theses that make no sense. Structures get you off the horse, see Ywain ;-) As soon as you cross a bridge, it breaks speed. Again I had to explain to an alleged solo player that it is nonsense what he tells .... and what kind of strucutres u talking about lol? there are trees and 3 walls, thats it man ... u killing me.
Also, please look at how many solo videos there are from Ywain and from Uthgard. On Ywain EVERY CLASS SOLO IS IN RVR and on Uthgard you will find the following videos on Youtube: Infi, Hunter, Skalde, Ranger, SB, NS. That's it. Please do not tell me that it is necessary to change something in this regard.
[[ RESULT: Player 1 closed the gap considerably more than before, forcing Player 2 to compensate. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
Player 2 face use instant debuff , both lost horses then. so both are in the same position, so your example is stupid to be honest. You only talk about theories, but which player behaves the same way as you say? Nobody! I play in a different way than you do, but you're just talking about your way of playing a tank or caster and that's not correct. What if the caster gets selfspeed (Enchanter, RM, Sorc) and the tank runs behind without speed? What if, what if, what if, we could talk about it forever, but that does not lead to results.
Example Two: Player 1 (Tank) and Player 2 (Caster) see each other but have a structure (bridge, wall, gate, etc.) separating them. Player 2 must play incredibly defensive, as they know that Player 1 can round a corner near-instantly to force a melee. Even a 500-800 unit distance can quickly become nothing if Player 2 blinks for too long or is otherwise distracted.
[[ RESULT: Player 2 must play more defensive and have good reaction speed to avoid a possible insta-melee with Player 1. Disadvantage: Player 2 ]]
Player 2 is stupid and shouldnt be at a place where he cant cast wtf?!?!? what kind of examples u throw in the room lol
player 2 should run away in open field wtf, why should i play a caster into a close combat area?You speak from your point of view, from your experience in the RvR. The problem is, you're putting into the room any theses that make no sense. Structures get you off the horse, see Ywain ;-) As soon as you cross a bridge, it breaks speed. Again I had to explain to an alleged solo player that it is nonsense what he tells .... and what kind of strucutres u talking about lol? there are trees and 3 walls, thats it
man ... u killing me. Also, please look at how many solo videos there are from Ywain and from Uthgard. On Ywain EVERY CLASS SOLO IS IN RVR and on Uthgard you will find the following videos on Youtube: Infi, Hunter, Skalde, Ranger, SB, NS. That's it. Please do not tell me that it is necessary to change something in this regard.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:36 PM
by
Bigga
heardstheword wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:16 PMWell this "discussion" is clearly getting us all very far...
"Give me examples"
"Your examples are wrong, you're terrible, and I'm right"
I never said that horses are THE solution. I just do not know any other solution. I saw the solution on Ywain and my and many others' opinion (solo player) advocated horses. But if there is another way, I would find it very good. Anyway, it would be great to be able to take the classes for the solo RvR almost completely, as on Ywain. Because I do not want to have only Stealther and Skalds as opponents in Solorvr.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:43 PM
by
heardstheword
Bigga wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:36 PMI never said that horses are THE solution. I just do not know any other solution. I saw the solution on Ywain and my and many others' opinion (solo player) advocated horses. But if there is another way, I would find it very good. Anyway, it would be great to be able to take the classes for the solo RvR almost completely, as on Ywain. Because I do not want to have only Stealther and Skalds as opponents in Solorvr.
That is a very valid point, and I did not think of it from that perspective.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:58 PM
by
Rabbitstew
aso wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:20 PMthen remove hastener speed also, because it will cause the same problem.
Hastener speed is nowhere close to the same level as a speed 5/6 horse. Hastener speed is limited to the Hasteners themselves, and once it's gone you can't just get it back after some 10 second cast. Just that makes it a difference of only a few engagements to now all engagements. And the difference in their actual speed of movement is massive, but that's more than obvious.
Bigga wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:22 PMPlayer 2 face use instant debuff , both lost horses then. so both are in the same position, so your example is stupid to be honest. You only talk about theories, but which player behaves the same way as you say? Nobody! I play in a different way than you do, but you're just talking about your way of playing a tank or caster and that's not correct. What if the caster gets selfspeed (Enchanter, RM, Sorc) and the tank runs behind without speed? What if, what if, what if, we could talk about it forever, but that does not lead to results.
Hopefully that insta debuff wasn't needed later in the fight, since it had to be used to de-horse the enemy. And I really hope there isn't 2 inc, because then you'd need 2 insta debuffs! Phew, good thing everyone is quick on the draw because every enemy running at speed 6 would be quite the change in challenge otherwise!
I give examples of situations, which can clearly happen and I have seen happen (but of course don't account for ALL possible situations), but to you they don't ever happen and should be ignored? How do you know this? Are you some kind of omniscient being? You asked for examples of where balance is affected, and I gave them. Balance is affected, even if to you, it is minuscule. That is and has been my entire point. How it can be said that balance isn't affected at all baffles me.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 5:01 PM
by
Bigga
heardstheword wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:43 PMBigga wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:36 PMI never said that horses are THE solution. I just do not know any other solution. I saw the solution on Ywain and my and many others' opinion (solo player) advocated horses. But if there is another way, I would find it very good. Anyway, it would be great to be able to take the classes for the solo RvR almost completely, as on Ywain. Because I do not want to have only Stealther and Skalds as opponents in Solorvr.
That is a very valid point, and I did not think of it from that perspective.
We all love Daoc, and for my part I find the variety that the game offers unique. Each class has its own unique abilities. I think it's great to be in solo RvR with any class. At least a breath of a chance can have. This variety should not be limited to just a few classes (Skalden, Assassins, Archer).
Mon 30 Jul 2018 5:03 PM
by
Bigga
Rabbitstew wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:58 PMaso wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:20 PMthen remove hastener speed also, because it will cause the same problem.
Hastener speed is nowhere close to the same level as a speed 5/6 horse. Hastener speed is limited to the Hasteners themselves, and once it's gone you can't just get it back after some 10 second cast. Just that makes it a difference of only a few engagements to now all engagements. And the difference in their actual speed of movement is massive, but that's more than obvious.Bigga wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 4:22 PMPlayer 2 face use instant debuff , both lost horses then. so both are in the same position, so your example is stupid to be honest. You only talk about theories, but which player behaves the same way as you say? Nobody! I play in a different way than you do, but you're just talking about your way of playing a tank or caster and that's not correct. What if the caster gets selfspeed (Enchanter, RM, Sorc) and the tank runs behind without speed? What if, what if, what if, we could talk about it forever, but that does not lead to results.
Hopefully that insta debuff wasn't needed later in the fight, since it had to be used to de-horse the enemy. And I really hope there isn't 2 inc, because then you'd need 2 insta debuffs! Phew, good thing everyone is quick on the draw because every enemy running at speed 6 would be quite the change in challenge otherwise!
I give examples of situations, which can clearly happen and I have seen happen (but of course don't account for ALL possible situations), but to you they don't ever happen and should be ignored? How do you know this? Are you some kind of omniscient being? You asked for examples of where balance is affected, and I gave them. Balance is affected, even if to you, it is minuscule. That is and has been my entire point. How it can be said that balance isn't affected at all baffles me.
There is nothing to discuss with you, because you speak of stupid situations. As "
Hopefully that insta debuff is not needed later in the fight, "which debuff does not have a recast timer?" Does a debuff last only 10 seconds, or "does not matter?" I think both come on no grounds, not in the least. Horses do not have to be a solution, but you can - because you're just talking about situations that EVENTUALLY can occur, but that's the game - for one, one situation can mean death and for the other RPs, everything has pros and cons, you have to I think I totally misunderstood or do not want to understand myself, so you come up with strange comparisons (structures and players 1 and 2) Anyway, I still think, what needs to be done around also to enable other classes like Savage the Solorvr (many roads lead to Rome)
Mon 30 Jul 2018 5:16 PM
by
Rabbitstew
Bigga wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 5:03 PMThere is nothing to discuss with you, because you speak of stupid situations.
To you they are "stupid" situations, and I may agree, but they (and others similar) happen. Therefore balance is affected in some way. This was my entire point.
Now, whether this change in balance is worth the payoff or possibly warrant other balancing changes, that is the conversation that should be happening.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 5:22 PM
by
Bigga
Rabbitstew wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 5:16 PMBigga wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 5:03 PMThere is nothing to discuss with you, because you speak of stupid situations.
To you they are "stupid" situations, and I may agree, but they (and others similar) happen. Therefore balance is affected in some way. This was my entire point.
Now, whether this change in balance is worth the payoff or possibly warrant other balancing changes, that is the conversation that should be happening.
Yes, you have to consider all the points, but you have done it only from examples that do not really make much sense in my eyes. Then I could start to say: What if the PC crashes from the player 2 or or or or or or. Would be great if you find a solution that would be really great.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 6:21 PM
by
Kralin
(As a disclaimer, I have a lot of experience soloing in DAOC as a Champion back on Live in Old Frontiers so I understand how difficult it is to solo as a non-speed class.) Solo playing will not fail if there are no horses. Soloing as a non-speed/stealther class works fine without horses but you are at an inherent disadvantage and I think it should stay that way.
If you have no speed, you shouldn't try to cover such a large area or you risk being caught by larger numbers more often. The entire frontier is so large and is intended to be roamed by speed classes and groups and zergs. Soloing as a non-speed class puts you at a disadvantage in a group-oriented game like DAOC so you should not expect to get all the same benefits as classes that have speed in their spell books.
The main problem we see with soloing is that you may not always get to "choose" the fight you want to be in. Be strategic in where you want to solo and you may survive longer. I think soloing is Hadrian's and Odin's makes more sense than trying to run across all the zones of the frontiers. Set up ambushes at trees, crossroads, mile gates, and other places that have historically been good solo spots. Hide behind trees when you need to and groups might not notice you. It was this way on Live before horses were introduced and it should be this way on Phoenix. Also, since the frontiers are so large, we could declare Hadrian's and Odin's be the "unofficial" solo zones so that solo classes know to go there instead of Emain for more chances of solo fights.
If you have smaller numbers in RvR, you will always be at a disadvantage against larger numbers. You shouldn't expect to "get away" from a fight you don't want to fight. Only speed classes and CC classes should have the ability to escape from fights. That's the original design of the game and it makes sense to me to keep it that way. I did not like horses on Ywain and think they take away the edge of uniqueness that is DAOC.
If you have no speed, you shouldn't try to cover such a large area or you risk being caught by larger numbers more often. The entire frontier is so large and is intended to be roamed by speed classes and groups and zergs. Soloing as a non-speed class puts you at a disadvantage in a group-oriented game like DAOC so you should not expect to get all the same benefits as classes that have speed in their spell books.
The main problem we see with soloing is that you may not always get to "choose" the fight you want to be in. Be strategic in where you want to solo and you may survive longer. I think soloing is Hadrian's and Odin's makes more sense than trying to run across all the zones of the frontiers. Set up ambushes at trees, crossroads, mile gates, and other places that have historically been good solo spots. Hide behind trees when you need to and groups might not notice you. It was this way on Live before horses were introduced and it should be this way on Phoenix. Also, since the frontiers are so large, we could declare Hadrian's and Odin's be the "unofficial" solo zones so that solo classes know to go there instead of Emain for more chances of solo fights.
If you have smaller numbers in RvR, you will always be at a disadvantage against larger numbers. You shouldn't expect to "get away" from a fight you don't want to fight. Only speed classes and CC classes should have the ability to escape from fights. That's the original design of the game and it makes sense to me to keep it that way. I did not like horses on Ywain and think they take away the edge of uniqueness that is DAOC.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 6:24 PM
by
bamf
Its a team oriented game. Group up you bunch of anti-social buggers!! Speed solved
Mon 30 Jul 2018 6:28 PM
by
aso
uthgard was also team oriented 
Mon 30 Jul 2018 6:43 PM
by
Danaeh
Disagree on horses, there must be a different solution.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 6:49 PM
by
Kralin
I think a special arena/bg zone is the only solution. We don't want to mess up other classes' desirability in groups. If a soloer doesn't want the pain of soloing (trouble finding "fair" fights, difficulty getting away, etc.) then play a class that allows you do that: skald, minstrel, sorc, stealthers, etc. If you insist on playing Savage, Friar, Champion, then you will have a harder time but that's the way it is. And I'm speaking from experience.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 7:23 PM
by
aso
give us a grp cap 4 zone!
Mon 30 Jul 2018 8:20 PM
by
Varano
Any speed class can run circles around a non-speed class even if horses are enabled. All you have to do is de-horse the enemy and kite. Speed classes still have the advantage. Horses just make getting around faster. Have you tried running through an RvR zone without any speed? You instantly want to kill yourself.
Mon 30 Jul 2018 10:25 PM
by
sebbo
Why is there a discussion because solo play will be hard in a Massive MULTIPLAYER Online Role Play Game?
Mon 30 Jul 2018 10:49 PM
by
Kha
Varano wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 8:20 PMAny speed class can run circles around a non-speed class even if horses are enabled. All you have to do is de-horse the enemy and kite. Speed classes still have the advantage. Horses just make getting around faster. Have you tried running through an RvR zone without any speed? You instantly want to kill yourself.
Wrong, and wrong. You wan't our speed advantage away ? What do you give ?
If you give horse to druid, i want you to give buffs to minstrels.
If you give horse to zerk i want you to give 2 axes to sorcerers.
If you give horse to shaman, i want you to give bard disease spells.
If you give horse to BD, i want you to give 4 pets to chanters instead of one.
Then we'll actually enjoy a fucked up balance just like on live.
Only decent solution to don't ruin balance : BP speed gems (or feather ones) 125% speed max (less than caster speed). 10 or 15 second cast, can't cast during fight. 5-10 minutes duration
That would be the only custom acceptable change for speed in RvR area.
And hasterners already do better ... actually. Also a good way to motivate keep captures, more hasterners around (if they put some at keeps).
Tue 31 Jul 2018 1:55 AM
by
Varano
Kha wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 10:49 PMVarano wrote: ↑Mon 30 Jul 2018 8:20 PMAny speed class can run circles around a non-speed class even if horses are enabled. All you have to do is de-horse the enemy and kite. Speed classes still have the advantage. Horses just make getting around faster. Have you tried running through an RvR zone without any speed? You instantly want to kill yourself.
Wrong, and wrong. You wan't our speed advantage away ? What do you give ?
If you give horse to druid, i want you to give buffs to minstrels.
If you give horse to zerk i want you to give 2 axes to sorcerers.
If you give horse to shaman, i want you to give bard disease spells.
If you give horse to BD, i want you to give 4 pets to chanters instead of one.
Then we'll actually enjoy a fucked up balance just like on live.
Only decent solution to don't ruin balance : BP speed gems (or feather ones) 125% speed max (less than caster speed). 10 or 15 second cast, can't cast during fight. 5-10 minutes duration
That would be the only custom acceptable change for speed in RvR area.
And hasterners already do better ... actually. Also a good way to motivate keep captures, more hasterners around (if they put some at keeps).
The first part of your post is retarded. second part not so much.
and yes there are a lot of people who enjoy playing solo even in an mmo imagine that!
Tue 31 Jul 2018 2:33 AM
by
Quik
Running solo is fine as long as you don't expect special privileges just to run solo...
Tue 31 Jul 2018 7:15 AM
by
Bigga
Quik wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 2:33 AMRunning solo is fine as long as you don't expect special privileges just to run solo...
Very selfish. U will def. Have success IRL with that attitude :-)
Mmo or not. Massive Online doesn't mean u cant solo. As i said, a big part of playerbase are soloers. And Not pve roleplay pen and paper mob killing guys like u.
I want login and have very fast action and beat the shit out of players like you
no pve, no guildmeetings (looool) and crap like that. thats why i play the game , and its ok. Every1 got his playstyle.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 7:37 AM
by
aso
problem here is most posts here are clearly from only-8man-players and zergers
they dont understand the POV from solo/smallman side.
Only decent solution to don't ruin balance : BP speed gems (or feather ones) 125% speed max (less than caster speed). 10 or 15 second cast, can't cast during fight. 5-10 minutes duration
yes for you, because you can catch them on sight with your 8man
Running solo is fine as long as you don't expect special privileges just to run solo...
please just dont post trash like this, did you read some of the posts here?
Why is there a discussion because solo play will be hard in a Massive MULTIPLAYER Online Role Play Game?
clearly a zerger
they dont understand the POV from solo/smallman side.
Only decent solution to don't ruin balance : BP speed gems (or feather ones) 125% speed max (less than caster speed). 10 or 15 second cast, can't cast during fight. 5-10 minutes duration
yes for you, because you can catch them on sight with your 8man
Running solo is fine as long as you don't expect special privileges just to run solo...
please just dont post trash like this, did you read some of the posts here?
Why is there a discussion because solo play will be hard in a Massive MULTIPLAYER Online Role Play Game?
clearly a zerger
Tue 31 Jul 2018 8:55 AM
by
Frigzy
Movement speed is 1 thing, Frontier population is another.
You can run around at speed 6 all you like, if there's nobody to kill, there's no point.
IMO, the speed egg thing is reasonable. Iwould prefer 135 or something though. Call it a horse for all I care. Just a pocket speed item (for everyone, from level 1 tbh) would signifciantly help.
The other part is population. Instead of thrashtalking each other over bullshit, try to think about ways to get people soloers, smallmans and xpers (prime target for smallmans) into the frontiers. That might be a more constructive use of (y)our time.
You can run around at speed 6 all you like, if there's nobody to kill, there's no point.
IMO, the speed egg thing is reasonable. Iwould prefer 135 or something though. Call it a horse for all I care. Just a pocket speed item (for everyone, from level 1 tbh) would signifciantly help.
The other part is population. Instead of thrashtalking each other over bullshit, try to think about ways to get people soloers, smallmans and xpers (prime target for smallmans) into the frontiers. That might be a more constructive use of (y)our time.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 9:31 AM
by
Platonius
15 years... still this same old discussion and flamewar....
Most of the stuff is already implemented that people want, on the official servers, yet no one really wants to play there ??
I'm not sure there is a possible way to add something to the game that would please all soloers, 8mans and zergers without wrecking the game balance up.
Even if the devs implement the bp gem with speed for soloers, there will be new whine and flamewar that something else needs to be fixed.
"Oh, duos with a cleric/shaman/druid have a advantage as i don't get buffs as a solo...." etc, etc.
This is a MMO, that is designed as RvR, in each realm you can have groups up to 8 people to work as a team, then you have battle groups etc. thats what it is balanced for (or at least what they are trying to).
I mostly small man or 8man, rarely solo. If I solo, I know I'm at a disadvantage as the game is not balanced around it.
So if you complain that
is a valid complaint, but the game is not designed that way sadly. Why should some play style, that is NOT the intended play style get advantages over the play style that IS intended.
Feel free to flame me for my view, I don't really care as I'v seen this kind of "discussion" for at least 15 years of DAoC.
Most of the stuff is already implemented that people want, on the official servers, yet no one really wants to play there ??
I'm not sure there is a possible way to add something to the game that would please all soloers, 8mans and zergers without wrecking the game balance up.
Even if the devs implement the bp gem with speed for soloers, there will be new whine and flamewar that something else needs to be fixed.
"Oh, duos with a cleric/shaman/druid have a advantage as i don't get buffs as a solo...." etc, etc.
This is a MMO, that is designed as RvR, in each realm you can have groups up to 8 people to work as a team, then you have battle groups etc. thats what it is balanced for (or at least what they are trying to).
I mostly small man or 8man, rarely solo. If I solo, I know I'm at a disadvantage as the game is not balanced around it.
So if you complain that
problem here is most posts here are clearly from only-8man-players and zergers
they dont understand the POV from solo/smallman side.
is a valid complaint, but the game is not designed that way sadly. Why should some play style, that is NOT the intended play style get advantages over the play style that IS intended.
Feel free to flame me for my view, I don't really care as I'v seen this kind of "discussion" for at least 15 years of DAoC.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 9:49 AM
by
aso
doesnt mater how it was designed, we can do what we want now with this new opportunity.
we know where the problems are, and we can try to fix them
closing your eyes or saying, it was always like that is clearly not the best way to fixing existing problems
some problems we got are in the same time reasons ppl play
for example, most of the players are not able to win against same numbers, thats why they NEED to outnumber enemys
some ppl say this is a mmo with rvr, but in most cases its not, its a elite 8man game like a soccer tournament with different teams, team blue, frogs, blablabla..
do you think its nice in a mmo rvr game to stop fighting when an other group or some other ppl add in a fight?
rvr is just one possible playstyle in this game and so is
smallman
8man
solo
crafting
pve
roleplay
and some others
but you need to understand, that you cant force ppl what they have to like
if someone likes one of these playstyles, you cant force him to play an other one
he wont have fun, why ever
we know where the problems are, and we can try to fix them
closing your eyes or saying, it was always like that is clearly not the best way to fixing existing problems
some problems we got are in the same time reasons ppl play
for example, most of the players are not able to win against same numbers, thats why they NEED to outnumber enemys
some ppl say this is a mmo with rvr, but in most cases its not, its a elite 8man game like a soccer tournament with different teams, team blue, frogs, blablabla..
do you think its nice in a mmo rvr game to stop fighting when an other group or some other ppl add in a fight?
rvr is just one possible playstyle in this game and so is
smallman
8man
solo
crafting
pve
roleplay
and some others
but you need to understand, that you cant force ppl what they have to like
if someone likes one of these playstyles, you cant force him to play an other one
he wont have fun, why ever
Tue 31 Jul 2018 12:39 PM
by
Bigga
Find it really unbelievable how excited the Zerg / 8 players are, because many solos have the problem of not being able to play every class they want. Fuck horses, it's not about horses. I am ONLY about the possibility that I can go with a class like Savage in the solo RvR WITHOUT being killed by an 8 or Smallmen IMMEDIATELY without any CHANCE. Please do not come with such a nonsense as: Understand a tree (LOOOOL) or find a group (I do not want a group).
I know exactly why you are against it. It is in the nature of man immediately reject something if it does not suit you. I do not say they should clean horses, I just said, we can think together which way there is also this style of play (which is NOT niche) to do justice. Just because the game was designed 17 years ago to be RvR, does not that mean you have to play it, how stubborn are you ?! Be flexible, unbelievable, talk bad and say no, just because you will not be able to farm the solos so easily is incredibly selfish.
Let's think about how and if there is a way in which you could also help the solo players to get away from an overwhelming number of players. Of course, I'm aware that this may not always work, but even if I had a 30% better chance, that's still 30% more than it is now.
Say what you want, it is fact that when I go with my Savage in RvR, the following situation arises:
- Port Emain
- 3.30 minutes on the way to AMG
- Killed by 8man
- Release
- Port Emain
- Run the way up to Odin's Gate (10 minutes)
- Killed by 8man
- Release
So, now you want to tell me, it is not necessary to change anything? Why not make the game better and change something in that regard?
I know exactly why you are against it. It is in the nature of man immediately reject something if it does not suit you. I do not say they should clean horses, I just said, we can think together which way there is also this style of play (which is NOT niche) to do justice. Just because the game was designed 17 years ago to be RvR, does not that mean you have to play it, how stubborn are you ?! Be flexible, unbelievable, talk bad and say no, just because you will not be able to farm the solos so easily is incredibly selfish.
Let's think about how and if there is a way in which you could also help the solo players to get away from an overwhelming number of players. Of course, I'm aware that this may not always work, but even if I had a 30% better chance, that's still 30% more than it is now.
Say what you want, it is fact that when I go with my Savage in RvR, the following situation arises:
- Port Emain
- 3.30 minutes on the way to AMG
- Killed by 8man
- Release
- Port Emain
- Run the way up to Odin's Gate (10 minutes)
- Killed by 8man
- Release
So, now you want to tell me, it is not necessary to change anything? Why not make the game better and change something in that regard?
Tue 31 Jul 2018 1:02 PM
by
Fk_
Because players don't agree with you they are zergers. Nice attitude.
You want the game to adapt to your playstyle, and not adapt your playstyle to the game.
/thread
edit: is your savage a Dwarf with red torso?
You want the game to adapt to your playstyle, and not adapt your playstyle to the game.
/thread
edit: is your savage a Dwarf with red torso?
Tue 31 Jul 2018 1:41 PM
by
Platonius
Again, I'd point out the section where I wrote, that all you (Bigga) want, is to change the game from the way it is designed to something different. There is a server where almost all the things you want are implemented. Its the official DAoC servers. But for some reason people do not want to play there.
All classes can solo there, all classes have horses, all classes can get speed buff (BP item) + many many different changes.
Only classes designed to solo in the current form are stealth classes, as they have a tool, that helps them get away from 8man or zergs, Stealth.
You wanting to solo as a non stealth class is all fine, but you kind of have to accept that you gimp yourself as it is not designed that way. Instead of adapting, you want everything else to adapt to your playing style ?
Saw this gem of a response now too...
Thank you, I'm doing VERY well with that kind of an attitude. The world does not owe me anything or has to adapt to me. I adapt and overcome the problems on my own. Entitlement is root of all evil
Like I said before, the game does not owe you anything because you choose a play style. Adapt and overcome!
All classes can solo there, all classes have horses, all classes can get speed buff (BP item) + many many different changes.
Only classes designed to solo in the current form are stealth classes, as they have a tool, that helps them get away from 8man or zergs, Stealth.
You wanting to solo as a non stealth class is all fine, but you kind of have to accept that you gimp yourself as it is not designed that way. Instead of adapting, you want everything else to adapt to your playing style ?
Bigga wrote:Quik wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 2:33 AMRunning solo is fine as long as you don't expect special privileges just to run solo...
Very selfish. U will def. Have success IRL with that attitude :-)
Mmo or not. Massive Online doesn't mean u cant solo. As i said, a big part of playerbase are soloers. And Not pve roleplay pen and paper mob killing guys like u.
I want login and have very fast action and beat the shit out of players like you
Saw this gem of a response now too...
Thank you, I'm doing VERY well with that kind of an attitude. The world does not owe me anything or has to adapt to me. I adapt and overcome the problems on my own. Entitlement is root of all evil
Like I said before, the game does not owe you anything because you choose a play style. Adapt and overcome!
Tue 31 Jul 2018 1:58 PM
by
Seigmoraig
This thread is such a massive qq/flamefest/circular discussion it's not even funny anymore
Tue 31 Jul 2018 2:17 PM
by
Uthred
Uthred
Please try to discuss in a nice manner or i will swing the .... close hammer.
Ps. that was a great rhyme.
Ps. that was a great rhyme.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 4:12 PM
by
PoisonClovers
Horses in RVR I don't agree with at all. I honestly don't think End pots should be used either. Simply because it literally removes a class from being needed.
Again my opinion but to each their own.
Again my opinion but to each their own.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 4:50 PM
by
Varano
No horses = no solos in RvR = less population
Why is changing something a bad thing? I thought that this is what this server is all about.
All you people seem like you just want solo players to leave. Guess what's going to happen next?
Please tell me how to adapt to getting run down by people moving 300% faster than me in an open field.
Why is changing something a bad thing? I thought that this is what this server is all about.
All you people seem like you just want solo players to leave. Guess what's going to happen next?
Please tell me how to adapt to getting run down by people moving 300% faster than me in an open field.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:12 PM
by
Kralin
Varano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 4:50 PMNo horses = no solos in RvR = less population
Why is changing something a bad thing? I thought that this is what this server is all about.
All you people seem like you just want solo players to leave. Guess what's going to happen next?
Please tell me how to adapt to getting run down by people moving 300% faster than me in an open field.
Simple answer: don't try to solo where there are people moving 300% faster than you in the open field. Why are you soloing in the open field? That's just asking to get picked off by more capable people.
Read what I suggested 2 pages ago . As a former soloer, you don't try to solo in zones that are popular with larger numbers. You should solo in less active zones.
Aso, Bigga, Varano: stop trying to make it seem like the 3 of you represent a huge population of "soloers" and that by not giving you horses that we will lose a mass population. I agree it would be awesome to have a strong solo presence on this server, but I do not agree that you should get horses (thus impacting other classes' desirability) or be able to survive as a solo class in a game where most people prefer to group up. Your options are simple. Go to a safer zone to solo (anything but Emain), avoid popular routes, and/or roll a class that can survive easier (speed, stealther, something else). Otherwise you are simply going to die to larger numbers.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:12 PM
by
Seigmoraig
Varano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 4:50 PMPlease tell me how to adapt to getting run down by people moving 300% faster than me in an open field.
Roll a Skald
Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:23 PM
by
Varano
Ok so I'm at a milegate waiting for someone stupid enough to go solo without speed. 8 man sees me standing there, I'm 100% dead.
Guess i'll go play literally any other MMO where mounts are STANDARD. (even daoc!)
Only solo play on this server will be Skald vs Minst. That sounds awesome!
Guess i'll go play literally any other MMO where mounts are STANDARD. (even daoc!)
Only solo play on this server will be Skald vs Minst. That sounds awesome!
Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:28 PM
by
Kralin
Varano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:23 PMOk so I'm at a milegate waiting for someone stupid enough to go solo without speed. 8 man sees me standing there, I'm 100% dead.
Guess i'll go play literally any other MMO where mounts are STANDARD. (even daoc!)
Only solo play on this server will be Skald vs Minst. That sounds awesome!
I think you are overreacting about your options. You can be at the milegate waiting for another soloer and not get caught by an 8man. Hide in the gate house, hide behind the corners. Sure it may only be a 50% chance they don't see you but there's a chance. And that chance is the risk you take for soloing without stealth or speed. Having a horse isn't a 100% chance to survive either.
Mounts are standard on Live Daoc...not on a server that tries to emulate an earlier patch era.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:31 PM
by
Throck
Mounts did not come into play until relatively late in the DAOC timeline (Darkness Rising), but plenty of people, including myself, did solo in RvR. So I really do not see anything to back up your claim.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:47 PM
by
Kha
aso wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 7:37 AMOnly decent solution to don't ruin balance : BP speed gems (or feather ones) 125% speed max (less than caster speed). 10 or 15 second cast, can't cast during fight. 5-10 minutes duration
yes for you, because you can catch them on sight with your 8man
What ?
Am mainly solo, as this may proof :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVaswx9L4U8
Also when am in 8man and drive, i don't chase solo/duos that never add.
Even sometimes loose speed by "mistake" when group insist on chasing them.
So.... Please, don't trhow random statements like you did. You don't know me, nor my "8mans."
Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:53 PM
by
Varano
Please tell me of your successful solo non-speed/stealth tactics.
Lets not implement a good idea because it came out later?
If that's the case lets take out harps/potions/hasteners/all the good ideas that made this server > uthgard
And you have about 99% more chance of getting away from an 8 man when you have the same speed as them vs when you don't.
Lets not implement a good idea because it came out later?
If that's the case lets take out harps/potions/hasteners/all the good ideas that made this server > uthgard
And you have about 99% more chance of getting away from an 8 man when you have the same speed as them vs when you don't.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:55 PM
by
Varano
You solo'd on a speed class? How remarkable!Kha wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:47 PMaso wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 7:37 AMOnly decent solution to don't ruin balance : BP speed gems (or feather ones) 125% speed max (less than caster speed). 10 or 15 second cast, can't cast during fight. 5-10 minutes duration
yes for you, because you can catch them on sight with your 8man
What ?
Am mainly solo, as this may proof :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVaswx9L4U8
Also when am in 8man and drive, i don't chase solo/duos that never add.
Even sometimes loose speed by "mistake" when group insist on chasing them.
So.... Please, don't trhow random statements like you did. You don't know me, nor my "8mans."
That's great you don't chase solos as a group, if only all the others would play by this unspoken rule.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 6:01 PM
by
Kha
Yup, chose speed and fun pets, without buff, without melee dps, without spells that 3 shot, just my speed.
I may have chosen a sneak or a caster, or a pure melee, but then i'd enjoy different strong advantages even if loosing speed....
It's game balance.
I may have chosen a sneak or a caster, or a pure melee, but then i'd enjoy different strong advantages even if loosing speed....
It's game balance.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 6:03 PM
by
Kralin
Varano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:55 PMYou solo'd on a speed class? How remarkable!
That's great you don't chase solos as a group, if only all the others would play by this unspoken rule.
They other thing that was left "unspoken" is that you are going to die in an RvR zone. If you insist on trying to PvP in THE MOST DIFFICULT WAY POSSIBLE, than you have to be able to stand the heat in kitchen. If you want to survive, then follow the many constructive options we have laid out for you.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 6:35 PM
by
Varano
Kralin wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 6:03 PMVarano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:55 PMYou solo'd on a speed class? How remarkable!
That's great you don't chase solos as a group, if only all the others would play by this unspoken rule.
They other thing that was left "unspoken" is that you are going to die in an RvR zone. If you insist on trying to PvP in THE MOST DIFFICULT WAY POSSIBLE, than you have to be able to stand the heat in kitchen. If you want to survive, then follow the many constructive options we have laid out for you.
It wont be difficult if horses are implemented.
Constructive options? hide behind a tree/in a mile gate for hours hoping to see a solo?
Tue 31 Jul 2018 6:49 PM
by
Kralin
Varano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 6:35 PMKralin wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 6:03 PMVarano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 5:55 PMYou solo'd on a speed class? How remarkable!
That's great you don't chase solos as a group, if only all the others would play by this unspoken rule.
They other thing that was left "unspoken" is that you are going to die in an RvR zone. If you insist on trying to PvP in THE MOST DIFFICULT WAY POSSIBLE, than you have to be able to stand the heat in kitchen. If you want to survive, then follow the many constructive options we have laid out for you.
It wont be difficult if horses are implemented.
Constructive options? hide behind a tree/in a mile gate for hours hoping to see a solo?
Yes if you insist on playing a solo non-speed/non-stealther class. What you're proposing is you want an option to run away from nearly every fight. I'm saying that you already have the option to avoid nearly every fight by hiding.
Hiding or running. Neither seem that fun to me in this day and age, but if you insist on playing a difficult solo class than hiding is your best option and it's already implemented on this server.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 6:58 PM
by
Varano
Kralin wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 6:49 PMVarano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 6:35 PMKralin wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 6:03 PMThey other thing that was left "unspoken" is that you are going to die in an RvR zone. If you insist on trying to PvP in THE MOST DIFFICULT WAY POSSIBLE, than you have to be able to stand the heat in kitchen. If you want to survive, then follow the many constructive options we have laid out for you.
It wont be difficult if horses are implemented.
Constructive options? hide behind a tree/in a mile gate for hours hoping to see a solo?
Yes if you insist on playing a solo non-speed/non-stealther class. What you're proposing is you want an option to run away from nearly every fight. I'm saying that you already have the option to avoid nearly every fight by hiding.
Hiding or running. Neither seem that fun to me in this day and age, but if you insist on playing a difficult solo class than hiding is your best option and it's already implemented on this server.
No, the best option would be horses.
Running away from unfair fights is what I want not running away in general.
So sit in one spot and hope to see someone eventually or don't play, that's what you're suggesting? guess which option most people will choose?
Tue 31 Jul 2018 7:00 PM
by
Kha
So, you'll answer every single post that give an opposite opinion by stating : "no, horse is the best option ?"
It isn't ... get over it ... it would ruin balance.
Stop now.
It isn't ... get over it ... it would ruin balance.
Stop now.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 7:29 PM
by
Tyton
IMHO I don't like the idea of personal mounts. As a stealther, I enjoy tracking down people (especially those I can eventually catch up to without speed). If I see someone across the way who typically has no speed, and he now has the option to just mount up and bounce right before I get to him, well, there goes dinner. Sure I can mount up too, but now I'm exposed. Def an issue and that's only one example.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 7:41 PM
by
PoisonClovers
Varano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 4:50 PMNo horses = no solos in RvR = less population
Why is changing something a bad thing? I thought that this is what this server is all about.
All you people seem like you just want solo players to leave. Guess what's going to happen next?
Please tell me how to adapt to getting run down by people moving 300% faster than me in an open field.
so a horse is going to stop a FG with speed 6 from still catching you? lol
Tue 31 Jul 2018 7:55 PM
by
Quik
Tyton wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 7:29 PMIMHO I don't like the idea of personal mounts. As a stealther, I enjoy tracking down people (especially those I can eventually catch up to without speed). If I see someone across the way who typically has no speed, and he now has the option to just mount up and bounce right before I get to him, well, there goes dinner. Sure I can mount up too, but now I'm exposed. Def an issue and that's only one example.
Again, I HATE stealthers. Just want to make that clear LOL.
If you give horses then you have taken away 6 classes being able to play optimally like they should. Yes archers would be affected to because horses can clear range fast.
I don't see how it is fair to kill off what 6 classes depend on just to help a few other classes move faster.
I am in not an 8man player or a zerger type, I play whatever is available that day. I will solo some days, I will join a small man some days, and other days I might join a zerg or an 8man.
If your argument that I don't want horses is because I am an 8man player? Try again as you're going to lose that argument before you begin.
I tend to solo quite a bit in RvR and I STILL DO NOT WANT HORSES.
I speak for just as much of the soloing players as anyone else here does.
I am all for trying to help small mans and soloers, but horses are not the answer. Try some other ideas.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 8:04 PM
by
Varano
PoisonClovers wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 7:41 PMVarano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 4:50 PMNo horses = no solos in RvR = less population
Why is changing something a bad thing? I thought that this is what this server is all about.
All you people seem like you just want solo players to leave. Guess what's going to happen next?
Please tell me how to adapt to getting run down by people moving 300% faster than me in an open field.
so a horse is going to stop a FG with speed 6 from still catching you? lol
Yes if horses are the same speed..
I won't argue any more, since no one else has come up with any valid points since my last post. You guys are just talking in circles, its up to the devs now.
Please make the right choice.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 8:08 PM
by
Aincrad
I could be wrong but I believe the devs have made comments on this already. They said no horses in RvR and IF they implement horses they will only be usable in PvE.
This is the right decision IMO
This is the right decision IMO
Tue 31 Jul 2018 8:26 PM
by
Quik
Aincrad wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 8:08 PMI could be wrong but I believe the devs have made comments on this already. They said no horses in RvR and IF they implement horses they will only be usable in PvE.
This is the right decision IMO
This would be PERFECT for everyone and be the most fair, but I haven't seen this anywhere. Any chance you got a link? Or can a dev chime in?
Tue 31 Jul 2018 8:39 PM
by
Aincrad
Quik wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 8:26 PMAincrad wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 8:08 PMI could be wrong but I believe the devs have made comments on this already. They said no horses in RvR and IF they implement horses they will only be usable in PvE.
This is the right decision IMO
This would be PERFECT for everyone and be the most fair, but I haven't seen this anywhere. Any chance you got a link? Or can a dev chime in?
Page 5 by Galahad - https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=761&start=40
Page 1 by Uthred - https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=622
There may be others as this has been discussed many times already in other threads
Tue 31 Jul 2018 8:42 PM
by
Quik
Thanx a ton =)
I am done posting on this since the dev's obviously thought this through and wanted to keep everything fair and viable for everyone.
I am done posting on this since the dev's obviously thought this through and wanted to keep everything fair and viable for everyone.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 9:29 PM
by
sebbo
Varano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 8:04 PMYes if horses are the same speed..
I won't argue any more, since no one else has come up with any valid points since my last post. You guys are just talking in circles, its up to the devs now.
Please make the right choice.
Afaik you played on Uthgard as well. They had horses on v1. It was horrible for soloers.
Tue 31 Jul 2018 9:45 PM
by
Kha
So i red everything again.
I guess the lock hammer is due.
Only 3 forum names are arguing again and again than horse is needed, they even like eachothers posts.
Come on, end this joke now, and let's focus on important stuff.
I guess the lock hammer is due.
Only 3 forum names are arguing again and again than horse is needed, they even like eachothers posts.
Come on, end this joke now, and let's focus on important stuff.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 1:12 AM
by
Shadanwolf
I'm a solo RVR player. It is my nature. Period. I play ALONGSIDE others when I choose. My 3 classes I'v chosen to play on PHOENIX : #1 RANGER ,#2 NS ,# 3 animist( I do keep takes and keep defense only). A game that forces grouping...will force ME not to play it.
My wife and i often pve xp together.That comprises the majority of my grouping on Phoenix. I was a 12 year vet of DAOC (regular game). Broadsword finally succeeded in driving me away with their endless churning of classes and non existent customer support.
My wife and i often pve xp together.That comprises the majority of my grouping on Phoenix. I was a 12 year vet of DAOC (regular game). Broadsword finally succeeded in driving me away with their endless churning of classes and non existent customer support.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 8:25 AM
by
Bigga
Kha wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 9:45 PMSo i red everything again.
I guess the lock hammer is due.
Only 3 forum names are arguing again and again than horse is needed, they even like eachothers posts.
Come on, end this joke now, and let's focus on important stuff.
this shows me that you did not take the time to read the posts. So save any comments. It has not been about horses for a long time, at least not for me.
but what can I say, the numbers speak for themselves. There is interest in this topic.
it is about a fundamental possibility to find something, which also gives the classes like Savage and Friar etc, the possibility, to be back in the fight again without being killed on groups without a hint of chance have to get away. because nobody imagines a nice evening to be constantly bursting of 8s and zerger and no I and many others just stop playing stealther and not to be forced to. would be nice if we thought together how to do it better instead of just saying NO HORSES ARE BAD, I DO NOT WANT THAT. It's not about horses, as has been said often enough. The fact is, 20% of the community are solo players and we should take them into account. Most play Stealther because they do not mind to be constantly grogged on visual range. But they would love to play other classes, but that's not possible.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 8:26 AM
by
Bigga
sebbo wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 9:29 PMVarano wrote: ↑Tue 31 Jul 2018 8:04 PMYes if horses are the same speed..
I won't argue any more, since no one else has come up with any valid points since my last post. You guys are just talking in circles, its up to the devs now.
Please make the right choice.
Afaik you played on Uthgard as well. They had horses on v1. It was horrible for soloers.
Uth 1 had no horses, they had horse trails. These were great, because you could quickly return to combat as a solo. The only problem was, the routes were camped and thus the solos were slapped from the horses ;-)
Wed 1 Aug 2018 11:26 AM
by
Fk_
We all enjoy a good popcorn show.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 12:30 PM
by
Genky
How do people simply not grasp that DAoC never was and never will/should be a solo or 1v1 game?
It's not even rocket science, look at the entire core design of class balance, RvRvR system, PvE encounters, etc.
DAoC was never designed to be a solo/1v1 game.
I mean, heck, it's a MMORPG for F's sake.
There are some MMORPGs that made solo/1v1 play a viable option and made it suit their core gameplay, DAoC is not one of them and probably your last choice if that's what you're looking for.
And going as far as suggesting enforced solo/1v1 play? Are you for real?
Play DAoC as it was intended to be played, deal with solo/1v1 play being a pain and disadvantage or find a game more suitable for your playstyle.
Those are the only 3 rational and realistic options here.
It's not even rocket science, look at the entire core design of class balance, RvRvR system, PvE encounters, etc.
DAoC was never designed to be a solo/1v1 game.
I mean, heck, it's a MMORPG for F's sake.
There are some MMORPGs that made solo/1v1 play a viable option and made it suit their core gameplay, DAoC is not one of them and probably your last choice if that's what you're looking for.
And going as far as suggesting enforced solo/1v1 play? Are you for real?
Play DAoC as it was intended to be played, deal with solo/1v1 play being a pain and disadvantage or find a game more suitable for your playstyle.
Those are the only 3 rational and realistic options here.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 12:32 PM
by
Kaosfury
You want to go fast in rvr, get a Minstrel, Bard, skald.
I'm not for watering down any class by given any kind of movement speed.
This should be less about whining about soloing. And more about people getting out and rvring in general, you guys quit being so scared, let's engage people, let's not make this into another run around circle jerk server
Soloing is fine, as stated the game's not exactly meant for soloing, but you can do it effectively, but don't expect the game to be tailored to you
My 2 cents
I'm not for watering down any class by given any kind of movement speed.
This should be less about whining about soloing. And more about people getting out and rvring in general, you guys quit being so scared, let's engage people, let's not make this into another run around circle jerk server
Soloing is fine, as stated the game's not exactly meant for soloing, but you can do it effectively, but don't expect the game to be tailored to you
My 2 cents
Wed 1 Aug 2018 12:45 PM
by
aso
you guys talk about its a MMORPG RVR game maybe it was sold as such a game.
but it mutated to a 8v8 teamgame
where 8mans dont add, pull off and such other things, it happens ALL THE TIME
so is this mmorpg or rvr?
solo/smallman game will die, and so the action if you just close your eyes and let everything like it is.
but it mutated to a 8v8 teamgame
where 8mans dont add, pull off and such other things, it happens ALL THE TIME
so is this mmorpg or rvr?
solo/smallman game will die, and so the action if you just close your eyes and let everything like it is.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 12:55 PM
by
Kaosfury
aso wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 12:45 PMyou guys talk about its a MMORPG RVR game maybe it was sold as such a game.
but it mutated to a 8v8 teamgame
where 8mans dont add, pull off and such other things, it happens ALL THE TIME
so is this mmorpg or rvr?
solo/smallman game will die, and so the action if you just close your eyes and let everything like it is.
thats a player base issue dude. there is aHUGE difference in playing the game it was meant to be played... and the 8 man x realming meta is has become.
you want classic DAOC, take keeps, defend keeps, fight etc... thats good for every one, solo and group.
when players go back to playing the game with the spirit it was intended, then it will be glorious.
if they dont, then yea, classic 8 man server.
do i like it? no, but this is where i want to play, so i odnt comlain much and roll with the punches.
you other guys cry like doomsayers about no horse = dead DAoC.
the difference,
adults get to a place they dont like, they change it, children stay, stomp feet, screech, and flauil until they are the center of attention.
what one are you?
Wed 1 Aug 2018 2:07 PM
by
Kaosfury
Horses in every way make speed class is less important, by not needing speed..... what is a huge major draw of of having a Minstrel Bard excetera the mez's are awesome too and all the other cool stuff too, but run speed is number one.....
Adding a bunch of speedy trees, adding horses adding any of that stupid stuff draws away from the attractability of rolling one of those classes.
While we're at it let's just give Champion levels so I can heal myself to then why do I need a cleric or a Healer or a druid.
Your point is it doesn't make it that bad, my point is it shouldn't be there to begin with.
There's another version of this game that you guys are exactly talking about...... go play it. It has all the stupid fluff you want all the water down whatever you want and you can go solo and bow Duel at the bridges, cuz it sounds like you're not happy here
Don't make this that
You also failed understand, the whole reason behind the lack of transportation is so battles going to have a natural rise Crescendo and then conclusion, I don't want to go into a battle fighting somebody and the battle drags out for 10 minutes and that dude that got killed first was able to release and get back and jump in that same battle..... or at least you running on foot or get another character to run you there, I don't want to see you whipping out a horse.
That kind of combat is going to damage Dark Age of Camelot that quick release get you right back into the game five minutes later because everybody is a crybaby and can't stand to run back kind of attitude
Adding a bunch of speedy trees, adding horses adding any of that stupid stuff draws away from the attractability of rolling one of those classes.
While we're at it let's just give Champion levels so I can heal myself to then why do I need a cleric or a Healer or a druid.
Your point is it doesn't make it that bad, my point is it shouldn't be there to begin with.
There's another version of this game that you guys are exactly talking about...... go play it. It has all the stupid fluff you want all the water down whatever you want and you can go solo and bow Duel at the bridges, cuz it sounds like you're not happy here
Don't make this that
You also failed understand, the whole reason behind the lack of transportation is so battles going to have a natural rise Crescendo and then conclusion, I don't want to go into a battle fighting somebody and the battle drags out for 10 minutes and that dude that got killed first was able to release and get back and jump in that same battle..... or at least you running on foot or get another character to run you there, I don't want to see you whipping out a horse.
That kind of combat is going to damage Dark Age of Camelot that quick release get you right back into the game five minutes later because everybody is a crybaby and can't stand to run back kind of attitude
Wed 1 Aug 2018 2:13 PM
by
Tyton
Kaosfury wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 12:55 PMyou want classic DAOC, take keeps, defend keeps, fight etc... thats good for every one, solo and group.
when players go back to playing the game with the spirit it was intended, then it will be glorious.
This right here.
It comes down to us, the community, to keep the spirit alive. Make friends, make a group/BG, join a guild, start a guild, take some keeps, solo collection tasks, have fun, chill out. Personal mounts ain't gonna solve that (and will just upset balance). Despite a handful of folks, there's some really cool people here that just want to relax and play some DAoC (and there will be more come launch).
Some people would rather sit in border keep for 2 hours than roll out to XP or RvR with an average group, then when they finally do they get rolled anyway. On my way to 50 on my healer I had a bomb leave my group because we let a shadowblade in, guess what? We replaced him with a different bomb and we leveled faster than he did. Moral is just play the damn game and work together. The XP is so damned easy, just invite people and start getting it done, just look at all the bonuses ffs.
And we should be encouraging people to play, not telling them to leave. How'd that work out for Uthgard? The reason we're all here is to have fun and because we love the game, don't forget that.
As to running around frontier as a solo savage, maybe experiment with horse routes? But you know there will be endless QQ from people when they start getting perfed from their taxis. /shrug
Wed 1 Aug 2018 2:17 PM
by
aso
not everyone like to play this class, and thats the point, you force ppl to play it even if they dont like it, means very less ppl who will go out in rvr zone.Kaosfury wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 2:07 PMHorses in every way make speed class is less important, by not needing speed..... what is a huge major draw of of having a Minstrel Bard excetera the mez's are awesome too and all the other cool stuff too, but run speed is number one.....
Adding a bunch of speedy trees, adding horses adding any of that stupid stuff draws away from the attractability of rolling one of those classes.
and speed5 is "am i part of the game or not"
with champion levels i cant escape a 8man, with horse i can, noone did cry for champion levels, cant be complained with speed,Kaosfury wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 2:07 PMWhile we're at it let's just give Champion levels so I can heal myself to then why do I need a cleric or a Healer or a druid.
horse is not like native speed, and cl heal replaces a healer or druid?
just because i like one feature of live means not that i like the other 1000 stupid ones, you think to much in black and whiteKaosfury wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 2:07 PMThere's another version of this game that you guys are exactly talking about...... go play it. It has all the stupid fluff you want all the water down whatever you want and you can go solo and bow Duel at the bridges, cuz it sounds like you're not happy here
Wed 1 Aug 2018 3:36 PM
by
Brokenstring
Solo play wasn't meant for every class. You can still attempt to do it if you wish, but it'll be sub-optimal if not on a class that is tooled better for solo. A Savage is about the bottom of the list for solo, slightly above Healer.
I hate mounts, I hate their aesthetic, I hate seeing them. I just hate them. It makes the game not feel like DAoC to me, or look like DAoC to me. It makes it look like WoW.
However, if the developers decided to add in some kind of compromise to help unconventional solo classes escape from bigger entities, I wouldn't complain. It just can't be infinite and it can't be mounts, IMO.
I think speed pots would be a good compromise with a charge of 20 and duration of 20 or something like that. Although, I don't feel like it should be speed 6 as it does slightly undermine and weaken speed classes.
I hate mounts, I hate their aesthetic, I hate seeing them. I just hate them. It makes the game not feel like DAoC to me, or look like DAoC to me. It makes it look like WoW.
However, if the developers decided to add in some kind of compromise to help unconventional solo classes escape from bigger entities, I wouldn't complain. It just can't be infinite and it can't be mounts, IMO.
I think speed pots would be a good compromise with a charge of 20 and duration of 20 or something like that. Although, I don't feel like it should be speed 6 as it does slightly undermine and weaken speed classes.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 3:58 PM
by
Kha
Brokenstring wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 3:36 PMI think speed pots would be a good compromise with a charge of 20 and duration of 20 or something like that. Although, I don't feel like it should be speed 6 as it does slightly undermine and weaken speed classes.
Proposed above some kind of :
BP or Feather gem :
20 charges
125 or 135% speed (less than purple caster speed by atleast 15%)
10-15 seconds cast
Can't be cast in fight.
Duration 5-10 minutes.
This, i would buy 100% Doesn't ruin balance and help everyone, even if not in RvR (i xp infiltrator right now ... it would help !)
Maybe i should copy past it in suggestion forum... ? (Edit : https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1311&p=6578#p6578)
Speed 6 horses ? or any kind of ugly horses ? get out of here NOW.
Thanks.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 4:28 PM
by
Bigga
Kha wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 3:58 PMBrokenstring wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 3:36 PMI think speed pots would be a good compromise with a charge of 20 and duration of 20 or something like that. Although, I don't feel like it should be speed 6 as it does slightly undermine and weaken speed classes.
Proposed above some kind of :
BP or Feather gem :
20 charges
125 or 135% speed (less than purple caster speed by atleast 15%)
10-15 seconds cast
Can't be cast in fight.
Duration 5-10 minutes.
This, i would buy 100% Doesn't ruin balance and help everyone, even if not in RvR (i xp infiltrator right now ... it would help !)
Maybe i should copy past it in suggestion forum... ? (Edit : https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1311&p=6578#p6578)
Speed 6 horses ? or any kind of ugly horses ? get out of here NOW.
Thanks.
first guy in 11 pages WHO bring a idea or solution ...... i dont talk about horses since the first page of my thread. i asking if theres a other option for that problem, and its not only my problem, its a general problem for all solos who dont want play stealther or skalds.
thanks to you ! your the only guy with an idea...... this could be tested to be honest in beta ;-) if its not good, then change or remove.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 4:33 PM
by
Kha
Well i did already few pages ago. But i guess it got lost between all the argue
Now it's in suggestion forum, https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&p=6578#p6578, feel free to support so maybe admin consider it faster.
Now it's in suggestion forum, https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&p=6578#p6578, feel free to support so maybe admin consider it faster.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 5:46 PM
by
heardstheword
Kam123 wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 5:35 PMI'm completely shocked at the amount of people who think casting speed that you have to recast after being out of combat
My runemaster has to do this a lot. I figure people would rather have PBT over a deactivated speed chant during a fight.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 5:56 PM
by
Kha
Kam123 wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 5:35 PMI'm completely shocked at the amount of people who think casting speed that you have to recast after being out of combat. Is anything close to what a speed class offers........... I mean really, stunned.
Seriously give me an example i beg you. Haha
Ok, level a skald bard or minstrel with the intend to solo. Speed is probably your best advantage to chose your targets, chase them AND CATCH THEM, or avoid fishy fights.
Oh no wait ... the whinners got their horses, you have absolutely no advantage now, they run as fast as you do, you won't decide anything nor have the advantage to chase / runaway from low speed classes. Go rerolle a real melee, or a real caster. You just lost your hybrid advantage. (Same goes for casters with speed vs no speed classes)
You got your example.
No matters how long it takes to cast, if you give speed 6 to everyone. It's done, it's ruined. Am shocked you horse whinners never considered (or valued) that point.
Wed 1 Aug 2018 11:38 PM
by
MacPrior
Bigga wrote: ↑Sun 29 Jul 2018 9:20 AMAs so often in my DAoC life I came online with my character and wanted to do some RvR. Since I favor the Savage as a main character for years, I have logged this on Phoenix. I was aware from the start that this class on Phoenix is not playable solo, for various reasons such as: no speed, no Hastenerpots or horses. Nevertheless, I went off and was killed every run of duos and groups without a chance to have a chance. Since I do not want to play a SB or Skald now, I can not do a solo RvR. Since I just want to concentrate on one class to increase the RR. As you know, not everything was good at Classic times, so Broadsword did the right thing and implemented horses. Thus, EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME has the opportunity to solo in the RvR without being able to be killed immediately on sight. For my part, the following now remains: I am forced to play a class I do not want to play because I want to stay at the Savage OR to play another game as long as my friends are not online. Unfortunately, there are only these options. Each solo player will be limited to the classes (Skald, SB, Hunter, Infi, Scout, Minstrel, Ranger, Nightshade). I have been playing since 2002 and the best thing that could happen to solo players was horses that can run away from a majority. Now I'm just waiting for the comments of the 8 players, Zerg players and Smallys to hate the horses because you can not run the solos any more, because there is no other reason not to install the horses
This post is just funny. Why I can't make my soup salty using sugar?
Thu 2 Aug 2018 7:13 AM
by
Platonius
Kam123 wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 6:02 PMKha wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 5:56 PMKam123 wrote: ↑Wed 1 Aug 2018 5:35 PMI'm completely shocked at the amount of people who think casting speed that you have to recast after being out of combat. Is anything close to what a speed class offers........... I mean really, stunned.
Seriously give me an example i beg you. Haha
Ok, level a skald bard or minstrel with the intend to solo. Speed is probably your best advantage to chose your targets, chase them AND CATCH THEM, or avoid fishy fights.
Oh no wait ... the whinners got their horses, you have absolutely no advantage now, they run as fast as you do, you won't decide anything nor have the advantage to chase / runaway from low speed classes. Go rerolle a real melee, or a real caster. You just lost your hybrid advantage. (Same goes for casters with speed vs no speed classes)
You got your example.
No matters how long it takes to cast, if you give speed 6 to everyone. It's done, it's ruined. Am shocked you horse whinners never considered (or valued) that point.
How does that make these classes less useful, i think you missed the point. Not to mention live... But everyone has speed 6 and you don't always get away, but you don't always die...
Because some classes are designed to have speed and others do not. This game forces you to group if you want to have other advantages.
Need healing ??? Group with a healing class!
Need more movement speed? Group with a class who has speed!
Need buffs? Group with a class with such abilities.
When you solo, you accept that you are at a disadvantage. You don't get to run away from people with speed, you don't get to out last people with heals, etc.
All i see from the "horse" people is just whining and crying like children. This game is NOT designed for solo, but it is available if you CHOOSE to do it. Trick is, you are at a disadvantage, because you decided you don't want to group with others. Why the game balance should be changed because some people want to play differently than the game was designed for ?
I have played other pvp MMOs where all classes can do almost everything (heal, melee, range, etc) at the same time. Everyone had access to speed. In the end, all the fights where exactly the same.
Thu 2 Aug 2018 10:23 AM
by
l00ri
Endu- und Buffpots were in the Game at the target Patchlevel, Horses were not.
Buffpots is not even an argument with -80 Statpoints compared to a real Buffclass, but Speed6 Horses will make a Skald for example simply worthless.
Buffpots is not even an argument with -80 Statpoints compared to a real Buffclass, but Speed6 Horses will make a Skald for example simply worthless.
Thu 2 Aug 2018 11:04 AM
by
l00ri
Nope i don't, but if you don't need a Skald for Speed I guess there are some classes that provide more Utility for the Group, don't you think ?
And no I don't want strict 1.65, but i don't want to see classes that gets left behind, even though I play a lot of Solo myself.
I played a lot of non-Speed6 classes Solo on Live long before horses were introduced, never had a problem with that and getting catched by 8mens, it's just the way it is in this game.
And no I don't want strict 1.65, but i don't want to see classes that gets left behind, even though I play a lot of Solo myself.
I played a lot of non-Speed6 classes Solo on Live long before horses were introduced, never had a problem with that and getting catched by 8mens, it's just the way it is in this game.
Thu 2 Aug 2018 11:12 AM
by
Platonius
Kam123 wrote: ↑Thu 2 Aug 2018 10:19 AM...
Except there are buff pots and endo pots etc... But that makes the game worse...
My memory is not that good, but those where ingame at that patch level. Then again, I can be wrong. Nobody used stat buff potions on live as everyone used a second account. Thats why most don't even know that those existed too
And those do not make buffing classes inefective as you can only have 1 stat potion active. Giving speed to other classes makes Skalds/Bards/Minstreless less effective.
Skald becomes just a 2h melee class with some instas, Bard becomes a healing class with mez abilities and a Minstrel becomes a really gimp melee character with a charmable pet.
For example Bard: currently end pots make end songuseless (kind of), power song/ heal song is made useless by tinderboxes and now if you add speed gem/potion/horse you make the speed song less effective (yes, it will be faster, but still...).
On official servers the bard brings only 2 things to the table now, heals and mezz/interupts. Buffs are not needed as everyone has a bot or supremacy potions, all songs are replaced with FOP/Endu pots/horses/speed gems.
So why start down this route here and gut characters of their huge advantage in groups, so that some soloers would feel safer in a RvR zone ?
Fri 3 Aug 2018 3:21 AM
by
rubaduck
I have always loved the opportunistic solo man style, but one needs two to tango and this game is based on team work. If we straight up talk about benefits, like horses, it didn't appear in the main game until Darkness Rising, which is even after Catacombs expansion and people could solo just fine even back then. Horses is definitely a quality of life, but it is not a necessity to play solo game.
Fri 3 Aug 2018 8:24 AM
by
aso
my expiriences so far:
8man: team vs team behavior, dont add, pull off, ez rps comments when see solo/smallmans
solo: 80% of my solo enemys in email were minstrels, rest was ppl who dont move from tk away
if everything stays like it is now,
this will be a 8vs8, stealth, and in primetime zergserver with day by day less action
and im rly to tired anymore discussing with ppl who just play 8man, zerg, stealth, minstrel, skald and say solo/smallman game is fine
8man: team vs team behavior, dont add, pull off, ez rps comments when see solo/smallmans
solo: 80% of my solo enemys in email were minstrels, rest was ppl who dont move from tk away
if everything stays like it is now,
this will be a 8vs8, stealth, and in primetime zergserver with day by day less action
and im rly to tired anymore discussing with ppl who just play 8man, zerg, stealth, minstrel, skald and say solo/smallman game is fine
Fri 3 Aug 2018 8:53 AM
by
Platonius
You are really tierd of not getting your way and crying about it ? You just described the other 85% of the players playing styles just there. You do understand the consept of the majority rules? I bet, if 85% of the players would be soloers and rest 8mans... zerg etc, this server would be different. I do get your point, but I do not agree, that we should add pseed items. If you want the benefit of other classes advantages, you should adapt to either rolling a class that has that ability or make friends.aso wrote: and im rly to tired anymore discussing with ppl who just play 8man, zerg, stealth, minstrel, skald and say solo/smallman game is fine
As for the argument for stat potions and end regen potion:
a) stat potions you can only use one, that like 10% of the usefulness of a buffing class
b) endo regen or power regen pots, again, only a fraction of the effectivness of a class. (does affect pallys abit more than hibs or mids)
Now take speed, you take a MAJOR part of a speeds classes advantage.
My reason for not liking the change to give horses/speed to all classes is just to look at official servers. It made the game overall worse, as some classes just lost their edge and some classes gained huge by haveing acces to speed.
Fri 3 Aug 2018 9:41 AM
by
Frigzy
The value of ALL speedclasses will remain relatively well preserved when you add a ~130 value speed gem to the game because guess what, these classes are still faster.
Being faster lets you close the gap quicker AND decide when to engage or not.
If you want to play smallman or solo you will have to accept your place in the speed hierarchy. If you're not a speedclass, you will go by speed hastener speed OR 130. If you ARE a speedclass, you will run at 153 or 200 if you're a skald bard or minstrel.
This means that STILL most other groups and solo's will have a speed advantage over you. This is important because if they wouldn't, this valuable aspect of their kit would vanish. We don't want this!
HOWEVER
Here's the deal. As a soloer without speed, you are not meant to be able to escape everyone and pick every fight! That is part of the solo game!
If you DO want to have that ability, you HAVE to group or roll a speedclass yourself, OR roll a stealther. It's a choice you make at character selection!
If you decide to play a class that has neither of those, you should be prepared to adapt to your situation and accept the fact that in this area you are at the bottom of the hierarchy. If you can't accept that reality, that's up to you, not the server.
THE REASON WHY I THINK A SPEED GEM IS WORTH IT
is because as a visible speedless solo player you often make a lot of detours and hide from the fastest routes. You basically cover a lot more ground than you would in a group with speed. As stated above, you have to accept the fact that if you get spotted, there's a good chance you will have others decide the engagement for you.
Having a speedgem will improve the QoL in terms of getting around which is hugely important since running in the vast frontiers takes up a lot of time. You can easily run around for 5-10 minutes without finding inc. Cutting that travel time is very welcome. Hasteners already help by the way.
WHY SPEED 6 HORSES ARE BAD
Casters versus Tanks.
A non-speed tank versus a caster will now have a very significant advantage. It will completely alter the balance. Instead of only speedclasses and stealthers, you will now see only Tanks and .. well. pretty much only tanks since the original speedclasses lost a lot of their advantage as well. Dont' underestimate the impact of this!
The Value of Speedclasses!
Value of these classes will plummet. People will start ignoring them where they would normally be loved in a group. You do not want this to happen in your server.
PS: Horses are ugly as fuck.
Being faster lets you close the gap quicker AND decide when to engage or not.
If you want to play smallman or solo you will have to accept your place in the speed hierarchy. If you're not a speedclass, you will go by speed hastener speed OR 130. If you ARE a speedclass, you will run at 153 or 200 if you're a skald bard or minstrel.
This means that STILL most other groups and solo's will have a speed advantage over you. This is important because if they wouldn't, this valuable aspect of their kit would vanish. We don't want this!
HOWEVER
Here's the deal. As a soloer without speed, you are not meant to be able to escape everyone and pick every fight! That is part of the solo game!
If you DO want to have that ability, you HAVE to group or roll a speedclass yourself, OR roll a stealther. It's a choice you make at character selection!
If you decide to play a class that has neither of those, you should be prepared to adapt to your situation and accept the fact that in this area you are at the bottom of the hierarchy. If you can't accept that reality, that's up to you, not the server.
THE REASON WHY I THINK A SPEED GEM IS WORTH IT
is because as a visible speedless solo player you often make a lot of detours and hide from the fastest routes. You basically cover a lot more ground than you would in a group with speed. As stated above, you have to accept the fact that if you get spotted, there's a good chance you will have others decide the engagement for you.
Having a speedgem will improve the QoL in terms of getting around which is hugely important since running in the vast frontiers takes up a lot of time. You can easily run around for 5-10 minutes without finding inc. Cutting that travel time is very welcome. Hasteners already help by the way.
WHY SPEED 6 HORSES ARE BAD
Casters versus Tanks.
A non-speed tank versus a caster will now have a very significant advantage. It will completely alter the balance. Instead of only speedclasses and stealthers, you will now see only Tanks and .. well. pretty much only tanks since the original speedclasses lost a lot of their advantage as well. Dont' underestimate the impact of this!
The Value of Speedclasses!
Value of these classes will plummet. People will start ignoring them where they would normally be loved in a group. You do not want this to happen in your server.
PS: Horses are ugly as fuck.
Fri 3 Aug 2018 9:53 AM
by
l00ri
Platonius wrote: ↑Fri 3 Aug 2018 8:53 AMa) stat potions you can only use one, that like 10% of the usefulness of a buffing class
That is not correct. You can have like every buff that's available but the stats are a lot worse than the buffs from a real buffclass, so for running a smallmen/full group you should always invite them to be competitive, especially cleric and druid.
On the other hand if we get Speed5 on every class who would invite a Skald over a Bonedancer or another healer for example in a competitive group ?! I guess the answer is easy -> no one.
Frigzy wrote: ↑Fri 3 Aug 2018 9:41 AMThe value of ALL speedclasses will remain relatively well preserved when you add a ~130 value speed gem to the game because guess what, these classes are still faster.
I think most players won't have a problem with that, if it is like hastener and has a reasonable price. But it won't help the cryers in this thread. What they want is not donate RPs to others / die in an RvR zone, and that won't help them. I played a lot of classes solo (Stealth & non-Stealth classes) and I would be fine with or without it.
I like to Solo and the thrill of it, if you get caught you get caught, its just the way it was for almost a decade and I'm used to it.
Fri 3 Aug 2018 4:07 PM
by
Ceen
I remember very well from uthgard how horses screwed up small man / solo play rather than supporting it. The solo gang was having their nice /bow duels + rezzbot at amg and if someone would not play by the rules everyone would mount up chase him and zerg him since they had speed while the other was in combat.
No thanks
No thanks
Sun 5 Aug 2018 12:51 AM
by
Whitecrow
1v1 rvr is pointless when comes the realm war.
I would of liked see Knights camlot Albion have Island with a Romen type colosseum with Romen ghost elite guardsman.
Were people could watch 1v1 fights or 3 from each realm fight each other.
The Collsseum would be heavily guarded by missing 9th Romen legion.
You have line up register to fight and not know who you face. If no player is avaliable maybe you face members of the 9th Legion after 30 mins.
If you try run away your telported to fight by Romen ghosts when it starts not matter were you are once registered.
Maybe you face 2 players from both the other realms .
You can win money and random items taken part.
If you loose you suffer hour of 9th legion curse
Win 5 row receive bigger prizes
Telporters from 9th Legion arrive in each capital chargeing a fee to go watch or Telport to the island .
They announce when battle is about begin and offer instant telport to players in all capitals to watch a match when it about to begin.
The 9th Legion still haunt Albion and want see the 3 realms fight for glory
I would of liked see Knights camlot Albion have Island with a Romen type colosseum with Romen ghost elite guardsman.
Were people could watch 1v1 fights or 3 from each realm fight each other.
The Collsseum would be heavily guarded by missing 9th Romen legion.
You have line up register to fight and not know who you face. If no player is avaliable maybe you face members of the 9th Legion after 30 mins.
If you try run away your telported to fight by Romen ghosts when it starts not matter were you are once registered.
Maybe you face 2 players from both the other realms .
You can win money and random items taken part.
If you loose you suffer hour of 9th legion curse
Win 5 row receive bigger prizes
Telporters from 9th Legion arrive in each capital chargeing a fee to go watch or Telport to the island .
They announce when battle is about begin and offer instant telport to players in all capitals to watch a match when it about to begin.
The 9th Legion still haunt Albion and want see the 3 realms fight for glory
Fri 10 Aug 2018 9:04 AM
by
Nino
What if you get lesser Rps for killing people multiple times? For example you get zerged by smallman 8man or battlegroups as a solo player. After 3 times ur not worth any rps anymore. That might keep them from killing you again and again. There is no solution that prevents people to stop killing enemies that are weaker or in lower numbers. See gray killing. But it will make things better. The other thing that comes to my mind is to build a 3 Realm Guild that provides security to solo Players. Arranging Duel spots where you can do 1 on 1 and protect them with one or 2 groups from getting ganked.
Edit: also if more players had the balls to come out for solo with different classes then the common solo classes like skald/minstrel. There would be much more fun for everyone. But everyone wants to always win every fight they pick up. Thats the real problem for soloers. One could think about to nerve those Solo classes so they don't get played so ofte in solo encounters
PS: I really like 9th legion idea.
Edit: also if more players had the balls to come out for solo with different classes then the common solo classes like skald/minstrel. There would be much more fun for everyone. But everyone wants to always win every fight they pick up. Thats the real problem for soloers. One could think about to nerve those Solo classes so they don't get played so ofte in solo encounters
PS: I really like 9th legion idea.
Fri 10 Aug 2018 9:59 AM
by
Jaegaer
I just recently discovered this redo of my all time favorite game and thus haven't read through everything but...
The DAoC I knew and loved was a game where the (server) community mattered a lot. And that was because you hardly did anything alone. Even as a stealth class you were so much better off being grouped with other stealthers than being alone.
And that is what I loved in DAoC - it forced you to Group, to take part in the community, if you wanted any form of effectiveness.
And now a DAoC redo Comes along and People talk about how soloplay will fail as if this will be a bad Thing.
Well, yes, ofc. Very very few People did actually solo in old DAoC. Some did it at some times when their mates/guild were not on, as a funny but not entirely serious Diversion. Some stealthers did it and there it was more viable but still not good.
So, well, I very much hope that this game will let solo players "fail" (in as showing them that a Group is simply much better).
The DAoC I knew and loved was a game where the (server) community mattered a lot. And that was because you hardly did anything alone. Even as a stealth class you were so much better off being grouped with other stealthers than being alone.
And that is what I loved in DAoC - it forced you to Group, to take part in the community, if you wanted any form of effectiveness.
And now a DAoC redo Comes along and People talk about how soloplay will fail as if this will be a bad Thing.
Well, yes, ofc. Very very few People did actually solo in old DAoC. Some did it at some times when their mates/guild were not on, as a funny but not entirely serious Diversion. Some stealthers did it and there it was more viable but still not good.
So, well, I very much hope that this game will let solo players "fail" (in as showing them that a Group is simply much better).
Fri 10 Aug 2018 12:12 PM
by
Malyss
...... So, well, I very much hope that this game will let solo players "succeed" as in showing them that (although group play is simply much better) there is still room for those unable to play in this fashion as was always the case.
Regardless of the intolerant and self absorbed / selfish opinions of some.
Regardless of the intolerant and self absorbed / selfish opinions of some.
Fri 10 Aug 2018 3:38 PM
by
Bigga
edit
Fri 10 Aug 2018 3:38 PM
by
Bigga
Nino wrote: ↑Fri 10 Aug 2018 9:04 AMWhat if you get lesser Rps for killing people multiple times? For example you get zerged by smallman 8man or battlegroups as a solo player. After 3 times ur not worth any rps anymore. That might keep them from killing you again and again. There is no solution that prevents people to stop killing enemies that are weaker or in lower numbers. See gray killing. But it will make things better. The other thing that comes to my mind is to build a 3 Realm Guild that provides security to solo Players. Arranging Duel spots where you can do 1 on 1 and protect them with one or 2 groups from getting ganked.
Edit: also if more players had the balls to come out for solo with different classes then the common solo classes like skald/minstrel. There would be much more fun for everyone. But everyone wants to always win every fight they pick up. Thats the real problem for soloers. One could think about to nerve those Solo classes so they don't get played so ofte in solo encounters
PS: I really like 9th legion idea.
sounds good to me
Fri 10 Aug 2018 6:14 PM
by
Bigga
Jaegaer wrote: ↑Fri 10 Aug 2018 9:59 AMI just recently discovered this redo of my all time favorite game and thus haven't read through everything but...
The DAoC I knew and loved was a game where the (server) community mattered a lot. And that was because you hardly did anything alone. Even as a stealth class you were so much better off being grouped with other stealthers than being alone.
And that is what I loved in DAoC - it forced you to Group, to take part in the community, if you wanted any form of effectiveness.
And now a DAoC redo Comes along and People talk about how soloplay will fail as if this will be a bad Thing.
Well, yes, ofc. Very very few People did actually solo in old DAoC. Some did it at some times when their mates/guild were not on, as a funny but not entirely serious Diversion. Some stealthers did it and there it was more viable but still not good.
So, well, I very much hope that this game will let solo players "fail" (in as showing them that a Group is simply much better).
you are truly the s**m of the society .....hoping that someones playstyle fail lol .....
Fri 10 Aug 2018 6:28 PM
by
aso
Jaegaer wrote: ↑Fri 10 Aug 2018 9:59 AMSo, well, I very much hope that this game will let solo players "fail" (in as showing them that a Group is simply much better).
hahahahahaa i swear i hope you d*e
and what is very nice you cant force ppl to play like YOU WANT, so ppl with your opinion will always fail
you remember uthgard? they did try it
Sun 12 Aug 2018 10:34 PM
by
Sarerishor
Honestly, solo play dies with Minstrels who can seamlessily have an orange mob at their side at all times without having to manage that pet charm, unless I am missing something there? It doesn't seem like any Minstrel I have seen is twisting to keep a charmed pet with them. Am I wrong?
Sun 12 Aug 2018 11:06 PM
by
Varano
Sarerishor wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 10:34 PMHonestly, solo play dies with Minstrels who can seamlessily have an orange mob at their side at all times without having to manage that pet charm, unless I am missing something there? It doesn't seem like any Minstrel I have seen is twisting to keep a charmed pet with them. Am I wrong?
uhh you mean a red pet, and yea they still have to twist. But yea it's pretty dumb
Sun 12 Aug 2018 11:13 PM
by
Aincrad
Varano wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 11:06 PMSarerishor wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 10:34 PMHonestly, solo play dies with Minstrels who can seamlessily have an orange mob at their side at all times without having to manage that pet charm, unless I am missing something there? It doesn't seem like any Minstrel I have seen is twisting to keep a charmed pet with them. Am I wrong?
uhh you mean a red pet, and yea they still have to twist. But yea it's pretty dumb
Uhh you mean a purple pet....grand pooka
Sun 12 Aug 2018 11:33 PM
by
Sarerishor
Mon 13 Aug 2018 6:47 AM
by
Haruspex
For a Minstrel to maintain high level charm it requires high level instrument skill. 50 Spec + RR + 11 in equipment. It should definitely fail on purple very often. Red, less often. But to hold an OJ pet without trouble requires like RR7.
If it does not, it's not coded right.
If it does not, it's not coded right.
Mon 13 Aug 2018 8:48 AM
by
Jaegaer
@aso & @Bigga
If someone puts a word in "parantheses" that means he uses it in not exactly the common sense. DAoC was a Group game, always. It was great because of that and not despite of that. Getting a Group was always better than going solo - always.
If you are solo and a Group Comes along there is exactly zero you can do. If you are solo as a Runemaster and an Infiltrator gets the jump on you there is exactly zero you can do. If your Hunter gets jumped by a Nightshade but your Shadowblade buddy pulls you out there is exactly zero that the Nightshade can do.
And thats it. Solo Play fails because RvR is not about 1vs1 and People expecting to be able to 1vs1 because thats "fair" or whatnot will be disappointed, their solo play will "fail". And the only way you could Change that would be to Change the game itself, which I hope noone will do and thus I hope that solo playstyle will fail (as in the examples I cited above).
And thats just how DAoC is.
And maybe next time you try to understand what people say before jumping to conclusions and insulting them.
If someone puts a word in "parantheses" that means he uses it in not exactly the common sense. DAoC was a Group game, always. It was great because of that and not despite of that. Getting a Group was always better than going solo - always.
If you are solo and a Group Comes along there is exactly zero you can do. If you are solo as a Runemaster and an Infiltrator gets the jump on you there is exactly zero you can do. If your Hunter gets jumped by a Nightshade but your Shadowblade buddy pulls you out there is exactly zero that the Nightshade can do.
And thats it. Solo Play fails because RvR is not about 1vs1 and People expecting to be able to 1vs1 because thats "fair" or whatnot will be disappointed, their solo play will "fail". And the only way you could Change that would be to Change the game itself, which I hope noone will do and thus I hope that solo playstyle will fail (as in the examples I cited above).
And thats just how DAoC is.
And maybe next time you try to understand what people say before jumping to conclusions and insulting them.
Mon 13 Aug 2018 8:54 AM
by
Jaegaer
Haruspex wrote: ↑Mon 13 Aug 2018 6:47 AMFor a Minstrel to maintain high level charm it requires high level instrument skill. 50 Spec
Yes and I never saw them in my time as a Hunter back then as the drawbacks are just too massive and the whole aura twist thing is messy to execute as well.
Mon 13 Aug 2018 9:58 AM
by
Cadebrennus
Nino wrote: ↑Fri 10 Aug 2018 9:04 AMWhat if you get lesser Rps for killing people multiple times? For example you get zerged by smallman 8man or battlegroups as a solo player. After 3 times ur not worth any rps anymore. That might keep them from killing you again and again. There is no solution that prevents people to stop killing enemies that are weaker or in lower numbers. See gray killing. But it will make things better. The other thing that comes to my mind is to build a 3 Realm Guild that provides security to solo Players. Arranging Duel spots where you can do 1 on 1 and protect them with one or 2 groups from getting ganked.
Edit: also if more players had the balls to come out for solo with different classes then the common solo classes like skald/minstrel. There would be much more fun for everyone. But everyone wants to always win every fight they pick up. Thats the real problem for soloers. One could think about to nerve those Solo classes so they don't get played so ofte in solo encounters
PS: I really like 9th legion idea.
Duels were a completely toxic playstyle on live. It artificially inflated people's solo kills (such that they would constantly stroke their epeens about it on forums), would gang up on anyone without "the right spec" (and your realmmates would just stand and watch you die) and took away from frontier roaming action where real 1v1s would take place (which had the added elements of danger from roaming the frontier).
Mon 13 Aug 2018 4:59 PM
by
Cirath
Haruspex wrote: ↑Mon 13 Aug 2018 6:47 AMFor a Minstrel to maintain high level charm it requires high level instrument skill. 50 Spec + RR + 11 in equipment. It should definitely fail on purple very often. Red, less often. But to hold an OJ pet without trouble requires like RR7.
If it does not, it's not coded right.
Do ANY minstrels NOT spec 50 instruments? I have seen many RR2 minstrels running around with grand pooka pets, having no visible trouble controlling them. Seems fair.
Mon 13 Aug 2018 7:03 PM
by
Quik
Cirath wrote: ↑Mon 13 Aug 2018 4:59 PMHaruspex wrote: ↑Mon 13 Aug 2018 6:47 AMFor a Minstrel to maintain high level charm it requires high level instrument skill. 50 Spec + RR + 11 in equipment. It should definitely fail on purple very often. Red, less often. But to hold an OJ pet without trouble requires like RR7.
If it does not, it's not coded right.
Do ANY minstrels NOT spec 50 instruments? I have seen many RR2 minstrels running around with grand pooka pets, having no visible trouble controlling them. Seems fair.
This. I see that Grand Pookha pet with Minnies all the damn time.
This is stupidly OP and needs fixed. Personally IMHO no one should be able to charm a pet higher then your level...period.
Mon 13 Aug 2018 10:34 PM
by
Bigga
Quik wrote: ↑Mon 13 Aug 2018 7:03 PMCirath wrote: ↑Mon 13 Aug 2018 4:59 PMHaruspex wrote: ↑Mon 13 Aug 2018 6:47 AMFor a Minstrel to maintain high level charm it requires high level instrument skill. 50 Spec + RR + 11 in equipment. It should definitely fail on purple very often. Red, less often. But to hold an OJ pet without trouble requires like RR7.
If it does not, it's not coded right.
Do ANY minstrels NOT spec 50 instruments? I have seen many RR2 minstrels running around with grand pooka pets, having no visible trouble controlling them. Seems fair.
This. I see that Grand Pookha pet with Minnies all the damn time.
This is stupidly OP and needs fixed. Personally IMHO no one should be able to charm a pet higher then your level...period.
i dont agree at all .... its ok like it is ..... learn to handle the Minnie....
Mon 13 Aug 2018 11:52 PM
by
Haruspex
I don't have a problem with them running with red pets. Purple is too much.Quik wrote: ↑Mon 13 Aug 2018 7:03 PMCirath wrote: ↑Mon 13 Aug 2018 4:59 PMHaruspex wrote: ↑Mon 13 Aug 2018 6:47 AMFor a Minstrel to maintain high level charm it requires high level instrument skill. 50 Spec + RR + 11 in equipment. It should definitely fail on purple very often. Red, less often. But to hold an OJ pet without trouble requires like RR7.
If it does not, it's not coded right.
Do ANY minstrels NOT spec 50 instruments? I have seen many RR2 minstrels running around with grand pooka pets, having no visible trouble controlling them. Seems fair.
This. I see that Grand Pookha pet with Minnies all the damn time.
This is stupidly OP and needs fixed. Personally IMHO no one should be able to charm a pet higher then your level...period.
However, I feel that in it's current form it's not HARD enough. The resist rates on a red pet should be very high, and to even successfully charm a red pet even half of the time should be much higher. I'm talking like 67 or higher skill, like rr6/rr7 minimum, with high resist rates breaking the charm repeatedly.
I do NOT feel that Minstrels should not be able to charm above their level. Once you start removing powerful things form the game, you ruin what DAoC is. I don't play a minstrel and i do not plan to, but the game is better with things like this in it, even if you lose to them sometimes.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 7:43 AM
by
Anasth
As a solo player, both stealher and visi w/o speed (merc and infil) i believe speed is not the problem. Playing visi solo you find ways to avoid zerg when you can and learn how to calm youtself when you get hit by a train (be it 8man or stealthgroup or smallman or whatever unfair fight you get out there). The problem for me is that when you FINALLY get a 1on1 fight, you have to pop potions in order to keep your fight fair. Which in turn means that you have to farm money to buy pots or even worse lvl alchemy to craft them yourself . As a result, for a round of solo rvr you have to go spend some hours farming gold. Not to mention the various charged item buffs you have to farm.I dont have a solution in mind but imho i had a better time when i just had a buffbot... i know i am gonna get flammed for this post but thats my experience as a solo player. Thats the reason i quit uth 2.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 8:32 AM
by
aso
I think it's totally ok minst can charm purple pets
Daoc was always like that
Learn to handle it
Use the terrain, hide behind tree if you see a minstrel for example
Daoc was always like that
Learn to handle it
Use the terrain, hide behind tree if you see a minstrel for example
Wed 15 Aug 2018 3:48 PM
by
phixion
aso wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 8:32 AMI think it's totally ok minst can charm purple pets
Daoc was always like that
Learn to handle it
Use the terrain, hide behind tree if you see a minstrel for example
Minstrels should have never been allowed to charm anything over Orange. Red and Purple con should be more trouble than it's worth to keep hold of, in my opinion.
Your solution doesn't really fix the problem, you're basically telling people to avoid fighting a class that can pick and choose it's fights.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:19 PM
by
Geek
phixion wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 3:48 PMaso wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 8:32 AMI think it's totally ok minst can charm purple pets
Daoc was always like that
Learn to handle it
Use the terrain, hide behind tree if you see a minstrel for example
Minstrels should have never been allowed to charm anything over Orange. Red and Purple con should be more trouble than it's worth to keep hold of, in my opinion.
Your solution doesn't really fix the problem, you're basically telling people to avoid fighting a class that can pick and choose it's fights.
But they were allowed, and they have been allowed since the beginning. When I'm out as a stealther, I avoid lots of classes, like sorc and reaver when I play hib, pure tanks, and others. It's the nature of the game.
There is no solution. A mins is what it is. Maybe increase the resist rate for charm? Other than that, saying a minstrel can't charm above oj is against everything it's been about since the beginning.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:32 PM
by
phixion
Geek wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:19 PMBut they were allowed, and they have been allowed since the beginning. When I'm out as a stealther, I avoid lots of classes, like sorc and reaver when I play hib, pure tanks, and others. It's the nature of the game.
There is no solution. A mins is what it is. Maybe increase the resist rate for charm? Other than that, saying a minstrel can't charm above oj is against everything it's been about since the beginning.
Red and Purple con mobs should resist too much to make it worth it, the charm spell shouldn't be spammable and should have a 10-15 second cooldown to stop the Minstrel having permanent control over a Red/Purp con pet.
I believe an Orange con pet is more than enough, whether used as extra damage or a healer.
Of course we can keep it as it is, and people will cry out about how unfair it is. Or we could just nip it in the bud before the inevitable happens and limit it to something which makes sense. This server isn't just a replica of 1.65, it's adding QoL with a dollop of common sense. I think common sense tells us that Purple con pets should never have been a thing to begin with.
That is of course, unless you play a Minstrel and think it's perfectly fine.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:36 PM
by
Quik
Geek wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:19 PMphixion wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 3:48 PMaso wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 8:32 AMI think it's totally ok minst can charm purple pets
Daoc was always like that
Learn to handle it
Use the terrain, hide behind tree if you see a minstrel for example
Minstrels should have never been allowed to charm anything over Orange. Red and Purple con should be more trouble than it's worth to keep hold of, in my opinion.
Your solution doesn't really fix the problem, you're basically telling people to avoid fighting a class that can pick and choose it's fights.
But they were allowed, and they have been allowed since the beginning. When I'm out as a stealther, I avoid lots of classes, like sorc and reaver when I play hib, pure tanks, and others. It's the nature of the game.
There is no solution. A mins is what it is. Maybe increase the resist rate for charm? Other than that, saying a minstrel can't charm above oj is against everything it's been about since the beginning.
So because something that was always a little OP is even more so here...we should leave it because that's always the way it was? The point of every patch ever done in DAoC was an attempt to fix something that shouldn't be that way. They fix things later.
Correct me if I am wrong, but on live/Uth if a Minnie wanted a pet they had to use one instrument, and then if they wanted speed or another ability they had to swap instruments? Sorry its been a long time since I have played one. If this is the case, Phoenix has the harp which means no instrument switching which makes the Minnie even more over the top.
Sorry but the argument that it has always been that way doesn't fly here. Phoenix added feathers which has never been in the game before so that is a big change. They have tweaked alchemy a bit which is different than it used to be. We have account vaults which weren't in at 1.65 I don't think. Necro has some HUGE changes to make there life a lot easier, are you saying they should be reverted because it wasn't always like that?
Phoenix is changing a lot of things to try to balance things out, and Minnie needs a hard look. NO other class causes groups to run like seeing a Minnie with a Grand Pookha out killing people. Make it an OJ pet like it should and now that same Minnie can still take a group of 1-2 if it picks its fights, like it should, instead of the Grand Pookha where it can wipe groups of 3-4 or more with JUST the pet.
The argument we should leave it because it has always been that way would leave the entire gaming industry in a hole, which is why things need fixed.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:42 PM
by
Geek
phixion wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:32 PMI believe an Orange con pet is more than enough, whether used as extra damage or a healer
That's just the problem. Just because you believe something doesn't make it right. I don't play a Mins as a main, nor do I have a high-level one. But I've played this game since 2002 and know that a mins has always been allowed to have high-level pets. It's the way it's always been and only people here seem to have a problem with it. Some things devs should leave as they were. I avoid mins when I play a NS. So.... like I said, raise the resist rate on charm. It's all I can think of besides totally changing what a mins has always been able to do.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:43 PM
by
Geek
Quik wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:36 PMGeek wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:19 PMphixion wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 3:48 PMMinstrels should have never been allowed to charm anything over Orange. Red and Purple con should be more trouble than it's worth to keep hold of, in my opinion.
Your solution doesn't really fix the problem, you're basically telling people to avoid fighting a class that can pick and choose it's fights.
But they were allowed, and they have been allowed since the beginning. When I'm out as a stealther, I avoid lots of classes, like sorc and reaver when I play hib, pure tanks, and others. It's the nature of the game.
There is no solution. A mins is what it is. Maybe increase the resist rate for charm? Other than that, saying a minstrel can't charm above oj is against everything it's been about since the beginning.
So because something that was always a little OP is even more so here...we should leave it because that's always the way it was? The point of every patch ever done in DAoC was an attempt to fix something that shouldn't be that way. They fix things later.
Correct me if I am wrong, but on live/Uth if a Minnie wanted a pet they had to use one instrument, and then if they wanted speed or another ability they had to swap instruments? Sorry its been a long time since I have played one. If this is the case, Phoenix has the harp which means no instrument switching which makes the Minnie even more over the top.
Sorry but the argument that it has always been that way doesn't fly here. Phoenix added feathers which has never been in the game before so that is a big change. They have tweaked alchemy a bit which is different than it used to be. We have account vaults which weren't in at 1.65 I don't think. Necro has some HUGE changes to make there life a lot easier, are you saying they should be reverted because it wasn't always like that?
Phoenix is changing a lot of things to try to balance things out, and Minnie needs a hard look. NO other class causes groups to run like seeing a Minnie with a Grand Pookha out killing people. Make it an OJ pet like it should and now that same Minnie can still take a group of 1-2 if it picks its fights, like it should, instead of the Grand Pookha where it can wipe groups of 3-4 or more with JUST the pet.
The argument we should leave it because it has always been that way would leave the entire gaming industry in a hole, which is why things need fixed.
Then tweak it. Don't change it entirely. My solution was to raise the resist rate, not take away the pets that mins has always been able to have.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:47 PM
by
Quik
Tweaking it would be fine also, but the common reply has been to leave it alone.
I have seen you mention raise resist rates in a couple posts and that wouldn't be a bad idea. Leaving it like it is will be imbalancing to that class.
And here is the big thing, if this is what the dev's want you won't here another peep from me. From what I have heard from them though is they WANT our input on this kind of stuff so I give my input.
I have seen you mention raise resist rates in a couple posts and that wouldn't be a bad idea. Leaving it like it is will be imbalancing to that class.
And here is the big thing, if this is what the dev's want you won't here another peep from me. From what I have heard from them though is they WANT our input on this kind of stuff so I give my input.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:51 PM
by
phixion
Geek wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:42 PMThat's just the problem. Just because you believe something doesn't make it right. I don't play a Mins as a main, nor do I have a high-level one. But I've played this game since 2002 and know that a mins has always been allowed to have high-level pets. It's the way it's always been and only people here seem to have a problem with it. Some things devs should leave as they were. I avoid mins when I play a NS. So.... like I said, raise the resist rate on charm. It's all I can think of besides totally changing what a mins has always been able to do.
Isn't that the case with everything in the game though? Sure, we all have different definitions of what should happen here, which is why this forum is great to discuss such things.
I'm not sure whether you are just playing devil's advocate, but you seem to be flip flopping between arguing to leave them as they are and then saying to increase the resist rate - which is pretty much what I'm saying, only that I'd go further and just not allow Reds and Purples to be charmed at all.
When you say it's always been that way, that isn't quite true. Back in the day, there were years where you didn't see Minstrels with pets at all, and when you did start seeing them it was Orange con at most for a long time. I'm not sure whether ToA changed things with +%Spell Duration, or whether players clued on to the spammable charm trick. Point is, it wasn't always like this.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:57 PM
by
Geek
phixion wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:51 PMGeek wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:42 PMThat's just the problem. Just because you believe something doesn't make it right. I don't play a Mins as a main, nor do I have a high-level one. But I've played this game since 2002 and know that a mins has always been allowed to have high-level pets. It's the way it's always been and only people here seem to have a problem with it. Some things devs should leave as they were. I avoid mins when I play a NS. So.... like I said, raise the resist rate on charm. It's all I can think of besides totally changing what a mins has always been able to do.
Isn't that the case with everything in the game though? Sure, we all have different definitions of what should happen here, which is why this forum is great to discuss such things.
I'm not sure whether you are just playing devil's advocate, but you seem to be flip flopping between arguing to leave them as they are and then saying to increase the resist rate - which is pretty much what I'm saying, only that I'd go further and just not allow Reds and Purples to be charmed at all.
When you say it's always been that way, that isn't quite true. Back in the day, there were years where you didn't see Minstrels with pets at all, and when you did start seeing them it was Orange con at most for a long time. I'm not sure whether ToA changed things with +%Spell Duration, or whether players clued on to the spammable charm trick. Point is, it wasn't always like this.
I am playing devil's advocate. I really don't think they should be changed. But I also see why some people have a problem with it. Therefore, my only solution would be to raise the resist rate. I don't think the devs should raise it, but if it would curb the angst against minstrels, then I don't see the actual harm.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 9:29 PM
by
Valrok
Will an average minstrel player with access to a purple pet be able to kill 80%+ of the other solo classes out there in a normal 1v1? If so, this will kill the solo playing.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 10:26 PM
by
Terrorsauce
Solo play will fail because feathers.
You need to PVE to get feathers. Cant solo feathers. Cant earn Feathers in PvP.
Solo is dead.
You need to PVE to get feathers. Cant solo feathers. Cant earn Feathers in PvP.
Solo is dead.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 10:58 PM
by
Exploder
Minstrel charm just needs a 3 second cooldown slapped onto it and then it should be good to go. No way you could control a purple or even a red if it has a small cooldown on it.
Wed 15 Aug 2018 11:59 PM
by
Armsmancer
Terrorsauce wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 10:26 PMSolo play will fail because feathers.
You need to PVE to get feathers. Cant solo feathers. Cant earn Feathers in PvP.
Solo is dead.
Account vault is in you know, farm them on a class that isn't like infil but is actually desired in groups and hand to the account vault. She's trustworthy she hasn't stolen anything from me yet. Then, just like live was, you can go out with your OP stealther, solo.
The mental gymnastics some have to use to make something simple complicated to complain about it is a joke here.
Thu 16 Aug 2018 1:02 AM
by
Cirath
Valrok wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 9:29 PMWill an average minstrel player with access to a purple pet be able to kill 80%+ of the other solo classes out there in a normal 1v1? If so, this will kill the solo playing.
A 1 v 1? A minstrel should really never lose a 1 v 1 versus any class of similar or lower RR unless the minstrel makes a major mistake. Honestly they don't even need the pet to do this. A minstrel vs 2 or even 3 enemies often still favors the minstrel. Not complaining, it just is what it is. Personally I enjoy minstrel hunting on my nightshade. The challenge makes the kills sweeter.
Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:55 AM
by
Jaegaer
So 1vs1 is dead because one class is better at it than all other classes?
Cool Story.
Seriously, some comments here are beyond childish. Here is the secret: DAoC was never about solo play. If you were Patient and really good you could do it with some success but any bob in a zerg Group could match or even exceed you RP gain.
And thats just how DAoC was and it was good that way!
Why?
Because grouping is an effort that Needs to pay off. Even with all these modern tools you Need to put in something into the game. Get to know People, be nice to them because else they won't take you along any more. Build community. And that is what was so great about DAoC.
Back then I ran hardcore 8-mans AND I organised a low RR zerg to give other Player a Chance at gaining ranks. It payed off - These were the best days of my online gaming life . Oyu only get out what you put in and if you want DAoC to be a "log in, solo a bit, get same RP as someone who really build community, log off" then, no, I don't wnat that.
Cool Story.
Seriously, some comments here are beyond childish. Here is the secret: DAoC was never about solo play. If you were Patient and really good you could do it with some success but any bob in a zerg Group could match or even exceed you RP gain.
And thats just how DAoC was and it was good that way!
Why?
Because grouping is an effort that Needs to pay off. Even with all these modern tools you Need to put in something into the game. Get to know People, be nice to them because else they won't take you along any more. Build community. And that is what was so great about DAoC.
Back then I ran hardcore 8-mans AND I organised a low RR zerg to give other Player a Chance at gaining ranks. It payed off - These were the best days of my online gaming life . Oyu only get out what you put in and if you want DAoC to be a "log in, solo a bit, get same RP as someone who really build community, log off" then, no, I don't wnat that.
Thu 16 Aug 2018 7:55 PM
by
Terrorsauce
Armsmancer wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 11:59 PMTerrorsauce wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 10:26 PMSolo play will fail because feathers.
You need to PVE to get feathers. Cant solo feathers. Cant earn Feathers in PvP.
Solo is dead.
Account vault is in you know, farm them on a class that isn't like infil but is actually desired in groups and hand to the account vault. She's trustworthy she hasn't stolen anything from me yet. Then, just like live was, you can go out with your OP stealther, solo.
The mental gymnastics some have to use to make something simple complicated to complain about it is a joke here.
The only PVE i want to do is getting to 50. Why on earth should I have to spend 4 hours PVEing for feathers so I can make potions/buy gear for RvR. Raid items aside its still bad enough that if I want pots I have to have a farm character. Its not mental gymnastics at all. Its just you thinking extra time sinks and using PVE to excel in RVR is ok because you need a crutch. Its not.
Thu 16 Aug 2018 8:02 PM
by
Magesty
Terrorsauce wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 7:55 PMArmsmancer wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 11:59 PMTerrorsauce wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 10:26 PMSolo play will fail because feathers.
You need to PVE to get feathers. Cant solo feathers. Cant earn Feathers in PvP.
Solo is dead.
Account vault is in you know, farm them on a class that isn't like infil but is actually desired in groups and hand to the account vault. She's trustworthy she hasn't stolen anything from me yet. Then, just like live was, you can go out with your OP stealther, solo.
The mental gymnastics some have to use to make something simple complicated to complain about it is a joke here.
The only PVE i want to do is getting to 50. Why on earth should I have to spend 4 hours PVEing for feathers so I can make potions/buy gear for RvR. Raid items aside its still bad enough that if I want pots I have to have a farm character. Its not mental gymnastics at all. Its just you thinking extra time sinks and using PVE to excel in RVR is ok because you need a crutch. Its not.
It's how DAoC has always worked...? It is going to be easier here than on any other version of DAoC I've seen that isn't instant 50.
You have to farm to get the items you want. It is how the game is designed. The feather system is meant to make it easier so you don't have to accrue a ton of plat or win a contested roll to get sought after items. You'll still have to spend a little bit of time raiding or farming to get elite items or afford a PC/SC'd template. Welcome to DAoC.
What version of the game did you play where this wasn't the case?
***I agree that buff potions shouldn't exist
Thu 16 Aug 2018 8:08 PM
by
phixion
I don’t mind the grind as long as my stealther can get groups to farm feathers with.
If I’m required to level a farming character just to compete I’ll be sad.
If I’m required to level a farming character just to compete I’ll be sad.
Thu 16 Aug 2018 8:43 PM
by
Armsmancer
Terrorsauce wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 7:55 PMArmsmancer wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 11:59 PMTerrorsauce wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 10:26 PMSolo play will fail because feathers.
You need to PVE to get feathers. Cant solo feathers. Cant earn Feathers in PvP.
Solo is dead.
Account vault is in you know, farm them on a class that isn't like infil but is actually desired in groups and hand to the account vault. She's trustworthy she hasn't stolen anything from me yet. Then, just like live was, you can go out with your OP stealther, solo.
The mental gymnastics some have to use to make something simple complicated to complain about it is a joke here.
The only PVE i want to do is getting to 50. Why on earth should I have to spend 4 hours PVEing for feathers so I can make potions/buy gear for RvR. Raid items aside its still bad enough that if I want pots I have to have a farm character. Its not mental gymnastics at all. Its just you thinking extra time sinks and using PVE to excel in RVR is ok because you need a crutch. Its not.
I don't know how else to say this but DAOC is both PVE and RVR and they both benefit each other so do them both if you want to excel.
DAOC has always been both a PVE and RVR game since it's launch in 2001.
Seriously, all these cake and eat it too people, if you invest you get more how hard is it to understand.
This isn't a bethesda game where the world will level to your current power level.
Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:49 PM
by
Vkejai
It is all 8 man stuff atm , no zergs at all, hardly any BGs going except for PvE raids , so I don't think horses or even a helicopter will help visable soloers unless they are a class that are renowned to do well solo, unfortunately sometimes we have to adapt , maybe try another class ?
Thu 16 Aug 2018 10:15 PM
by
aso
daoc was made for 8man and zerg, you should group or dont play.
nothing should be changed what helps to play solo or smallman because this is a mmo RVR game
nothing should be changed what helps to play solo or smallman because this is a mmo RVR game
Thu 16 Aug 2018 10:16 PM
by
Woodspryte
I see a lot of people refer to soloing and then mention 1v1 in the same breath... soloing is NOT 1v1, soloing is 1vX where you pick your fights regardless of the numbers or you beat the odds in the fights that pick you.
If people want 1v1 then you can always /duel at the border keep and not be interrupted by anyone.
If people want actual soloing to be more of a thing then a rotating RP bonus needs to be given. Weekend 1 RP bonus of X% given in Odins for parties less than 3members. To not favor any particular playstyle, on the same weekend have RP bonus of X% in Emain for groups of 6+. In Hadrians have an RP bonus for group of 3-5. Weekend 2 have a bonus to RPs for Keep taking + RP bonus for any group size within X range of a keep to entice more people into defending keeps instead of keep swapping.
As someone who has predominately solo'd you will never stop being ganked by greater numbers. Its how it is, solo is a niche style in a game built around armies fighting armies. You either adapt and " get gud " or you roll over and die crying its impossible to solo.
If people want 1v1 then you can always /duel at the border keep and not be interrupted by anyone.
If people want actual soloing to be more of a thing then a rotating RP bonus needs to be given. Weekend 1 RP bonus of X% given in Odins for parties less than 3members. To not favor any particular playstyle, on the same weekend have RP bonus of X% in Emain for groups of 6+. In Hadrians have an RP bonus for group of 3-5. Weekend 2 have a bonus to RPs for Keep taking + RP bonus for any group size within X range of a keep to entice more people into defending keeps instead of keep swapping.
As someone who has predominately solo'd you will never stop being ganked by greater numbers. Its how it is, solo is a niche style in a game built around armies fighting armies. You either adapt and " get gud " or you roll over and die crying its impossible to solo.
Thu 16 Aug 2018 11:04 PM
by
relvinian
Solo is speed or stealth or taking a ganking.
Or you can choose defense toons like bolt wizards or animists or play in bgs.
XP off and RP off work.
Would be nice if bgs went to 44
Or you can choose defense toons like bolt wizards or animists or play in bgs.
XP off and RP off work.
Would be nice if bgs went to 44
Thu 16 Aug 2018 11:33 PM
by
Armsmancer
Thu 16 Aug 2018 11:52 PM
by
Haruspex
I like your post. I agree with the mindset of 'Just because it existed on live doesn't mean it should exist here.'. However, I do think that you should also have "Just because it existed on live does not mean is CANT exist here.'Quik wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:36 PMGeek wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:19 PMphixion wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 3:48 PMMinstrels should have never been allowed to charm anything over Orange. Red and Purple con should be more trouble than it's worth to keep hold of, in my opinion.
Your solution doesn't really fix the problem, you're basically telling people to avoid fighting a class that can pick and choose it's fights.
But they were allowed, and they have been allowed since the beginning. When I'm out as a stealther, I avoid lots of classes, like sorc and reaver when I play hib, pure tanks, and others. It's the nature of the game.
There is no solution. A mins is what it is. Maybe increase the resist rate for charm? Other than that, saying a minstrel can't charm above oj is against everything it's been about since the beginning.
So because something that was always a little OP is even more so here...we should leave it because that's always the way it was? The point of every patch ever done in DAoC was an attempt to fix something that shouldn't be that way. They fix things later.
Correct me if I am wrong, but on live/Uth if a Minnie wanted a pet they had to use one instrument, and then if they wanted speed or another ability they had to swap instruments? Sorry its been a long time since I have played one. If this is the case, Phoenix has the harp which means no instrument switching which makes the Minnie even more over the top.
Sorry but the argument that it has always been that way doesn't fly here. Phoenix added feathers which has never been in the game before so that is a big change. They have tweaked alchemy a bit which is different than it used to be. We have account vaults which weren't in at 1.65 I don't think. Necro has some HUGE changes to make there life a lot easier, are you saying they should be reverted because it wasn't always like that?
Phoenix is changing a lot of things to try to balance things out, and Minnie needs a hard look. NO other class causes groups to run like seeing a Minnie with a Grand Pookha out killing people. Make it an OJ pet like it should and now that same Minnie can still take a group of 1-2 if it picks its fights, like it should, instead of the Grand Pookha where it can wipe groups of 3-4 or more with JUST the pet.
The argument we should leave it because it has always been that way would leave the entire gaming industry in a hole, which is why things need fixed.
I think things should be considered. I do think purple is too strong. I do think red is too strong but if someone wants to invest heavily, get the Instrument skill up high enough and deal with constant charm resists and charm breaking, then fine. Orange I agree is fine.
Overall, like I said. Good post. Don't agree with ALL Of it, but it shows that you're actually thinking about things which is more than what a lot of people do.
Thu 16 Aug 2018 11:53 PM
by
Haruspex
aso wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 10:15 PMdaoc was made for 8man and zerg, you should group or dont play.
nothing should be changed what helps to play solo or smallman because this is a mmo RVR game
This is patently false and stated by Mythic to not be true. They encourage all types of play.
You are obviously confusing Soloing with Dueling or 1v1. Soloing is about taking on the world, most of the time being You vs Multiple other people. It is a healthy playstyle and needs to be considered in balance decisions which was something Mythic did right until the end.
Your elitist opinion is not valued here.
Fri 17 Aug 2018 12:12 AM
by
Armsmancer
Just stop liking what he doesn't like, it's that simple
Fri 17 Aug 2018 12:42 AM
by
aso
Haruspex wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 11:53 PMaso wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 10:15 PMdaoc was made for 8man and zerg, you should group or dont play.
nothing should be changed what helps to play solo or smallman because this is a mmo RVR game
This is patently false and stated by Mythic to not be true. They encourage all types of play.
You are obviously confusing Soloing with Dueling or 1v1. Soloing is about taking on the world, most of the time being You vs Multiple other people. It is a healthy playstyle and needs to be considered in balance decisions which was something Mythic did right until the end.
Your elitist opinion is not valued here.
not true
Fri 17 Aug 2018 2:40 AM
by
Haruspex
aso wrote: ↑Fri 17 Aug 2018 12:42 AMHaruspex wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 11:53 PMaso wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 10:15 PMdaoc was made for 8man and zerg, you should group or dont play.
nothing should be changed what helps to play solo or smallman because this is a mmo RVR game
This is patently false and stated by Mythic to not be true. They encourage all types of play.
You are obviously confusing Soloing with Dueling or 1v1. Soloing is about taking on the world, most of the time being You vs Multiple other people. It is a healthy playstyle and needs to be considered in balance decisions which was something Mythic did right until the end.
Your elitist opinion is not valued here.
not true
Now you're being ridiculous. It's completely true, and if there are people here who have been playing as long as I have (late 2001) they will be able to verify that Mythic has repeatedly stated they considered all playstyles in their balance decisions.
You simply do not want to admit the truth because you are biased against a certain playstyle.
Go away. You are not contributing to this discussion and are spreading false information deliberately. Continue and I will be forced to report you to the staff.
Fri 17 Aug 2018 7:24 AM
by
ShutenGlooten
DAOC isn't revolved around zergs, 8man, smallman, or solo. Its revolved around whatever the hell you want it to be. That's what makes DAOC... well... DAOC. And that's the beauty of it.
Sure solo is always going to be a little more challenging when it comes to gaining RPS. Because YOU'RE SOLOING YA DUMB BITCH. You have everyone coming at you at EVERY angle with pretty much GAURANTEED + numbers. That's what makes soloing fun.
You take all that away and you're a <something something - curtesy Galahad>.
That's just my 2 cents.
Sure solo is always going to be a little more challenging when it comes to gaining RPS. Because YOU'RE SOLOING YA DUMB BITCH. You have everyone coming at you at EVERY angle with pretty much GAURANTEED + numbers. That's what makes soloing fun.
You take all that away and you're a <something something - curtesy Galahad
>. That's just my 2 cents.
Fri 17 Aug 2018 11:50 AM
by
Ambron
well you could implement a 1v1 arena for all those soloers out there but this wont happen i think.
It always have been like that in daoc that the soloers getting ganked by duos up to 8man. There are just some hours of the week and only some places in the world of daoc where you can do some 1v1 without getting ganked and added the whole time. That was always like that and it will be.
In RvR there is war. When you go out alone into war you have to deal with the consequences.
On Phoenix i heared the sentence "Red is dead" often yet. I havent heared that ever before on any other server ^^
It always have been like that in daoc that the soloers getting ganked by duos up to 8man. There are just some hours of the week and only some places in the world of daoc where you can do some 1v1 without getting ganked and added the whole time. That was always like that and it will be.
In RvR there is war. When you go out alone into war you have to deal with the consequences.
On Phoenix i heared the sentence "Red is dead" often yet. I havent heared that ever before on any other server ^^
Fri 17 Aug 2018 12:21 PM
by
heardstheword
Ambron wrote: ↑Fri 17 Aug 2018 11:50 AMOn Phoenix i heared the sentence "Red is dead" often yet. I havent heared that ever before on any other server ^^
I don't know if this is a Phoenix thing or I've just never noticed, but any enemy that cons to me (green, blue or yellow) will appear yellow to me until I kill them. THen they swap to their actual con.
This happened in DF yesterday. I killed an animist that appeared as a Yellow Sylvan, but right after my perf the Sylvan name swapped to green really quick.
So it seems they're either yellow or grey. If you con to me, you will be hit.
Greys seems to be left alone by most, though there were some albs that seemed to love farming greys since that's all they could kill in DF I suppose.
Fri 17 Aug 2018 12:33 PM
by
Ambron
heardstheword wrote: ↑Fri 17 Aug 2018 12:21 PMAmbron wrote: ↑Fri 17 Aug 2018 11:50 AMOn Phoenix i heared the sentence "Red is dead" often yet. I havent heared that ever before on any other server ^^
I don't know if this is a Phoenix thing or I've just never noticed, but any enemy that cons to me (green, blue or yellow) will appear yellow to me until I kill them. THen they swap to their actual con.
This happened in DF yesterday. I killed an animist that appeared as a Yellow Sylvan, but right after my perf the Sylvan name swapped to green really quick.
So it seems they're either yellow or grey. If you con to me, you will be hit.
Greys seems to be left alone by most, though there were some albs that seemed to love farming greys since that's all they could kill in DF I suppose.
It is about the color of the name
Fri 17 Aug 2018 12:35 PM
by
Anasth
Red is dead is a moto that s even on daoc loading screens...it has to do with realm pride and it is not bad. It refers to the name tag of enemy realm players not con. Soloers know...or at least should, that most of the times they are gonna get ganged but we are stubborn and like the thrill of that one time out of ten when we manage to solo 2 or 3 opponents in a run....that s priceless for me...or sometimes even outsmart zergs etc. Solo is a play style accept it good or bad that s it and i thinj this thread has been burnt out. Minstrels arent going to kill solo imho like they didnt in the past...they are tough yes but killable...more killable than an 8 man train hitting you. So if you dont lije getting ganged by enemies stronger than you, dont solo imo. If you are a soloer you have to accept that 8 out of 10 runs you will be overran. Btw i think solo bds are way worse than minstrels but i m not qqing. Accept ut and move forward imo.
Fri 17 Aug 2018 12:53 PM
by
heardstheword
Right, right. I know if you stand near them the name above their head is red.
But I always feel bad killing a green. A green animist doesn't stand much of a chance against a lvl 50 SB.
Plus it would make me more likely to prioritize my targets better if I jump a small group that's being PL'd (which is what happened at the time)
Fri 17 Aug 2018 1:47 PM
by
aso
red is dead
8vs1 is fine, daoc was always a Realm vs Realm game
and thats how phoenix will be, it will be realm vs realm
not team vs team
not 8vs8
we dont need horses, they just destroy the ballance between tanks and casters
8vs1 is fine, daoc was always a Realm vs Realm game
and thats how phoenix will be, it will be realm vs realm
not team vs team
not 8vs8
we dont need horses, they just destroy the ballance between tanks and casters
Fri 17 Aug 2018 2:03 PM
by
Varano
aso wrote: ↑Fri 17 Aug 2018 1:47 PMred is dead
8vs1 is fine, daoc was always a Realm vs Realm game
and thats how phoenix will be, it will be realm vs realm
not team vs team
not 8vs8
we dont need horses, they just destroy the ballance between tanks and casters
So just have no solos, that will fix all the problems.
Casters already have a considerable leg up on tanks, so what if they get a few steps closer before CC?
Using active sighting and sneak attacks are what the best players do and no amount of speed will counter good game play.
Sat 18 Aug 2018 2:06 PM
by
Kakuzui
Consider adding a Battleground for lvl 50.
Smallmen and solo, 8 man and zerg, they all could be happy inside there. Oh and player's like me, the casual ones with limited playtime in the evenings could get some action as well. Many games have endlvl bg. Why not on DAoC too. Just my opinion don't steamroll me
Smallmen and solo, 8 man and zerg, they all could be happy inside there. Oh and player's like me, the casual ones with limited playtime in the evenings could get some action as well. Many games have endlvl bg. Why not on DAoC too. Just my opinion don't steamroll me
Sat 18 Aug 2018 2:48 PM
by
aso
Kakuzui wrote: ↑Sat 18 Aug 2018 2:06 PMConsider adding a Battleground for lvl 50.
Smallmen and solo, 8 man and zerg, they all could be happy inside there. Oh and player's like me, the casual ones with limited playtime in the evenings could get some action as well. Many games have endlvl bg. Why not on DAoC too. Just my opinion don't steamroll me
please not
daoc was always a realm vs realm game
imagine it would be a team vs team game...
Sat 18 Aug 2018 3:28 PM
by
Kakuzui
aso wrote: ↑Sat 18 Aug 2018 2:48 PMKakuzui wrote: ↑Sat 18 Aug 2018 2:06 PMConsider adding a Battleground for lvl 50.
Smallmen and solo, 8 man and zerg, they all could be happy inside there. Oh and player's like me, the casual ones with limited playtime in the evenings could get some action as well. Many games have endlvl bg. Why not on DAoC too. Just my opinion don't steamroll me
please not
daoc was always a realm vs realm game
imagine it would be a team vs team game...
It would be like what is happening in Caledonia now. For me this is rvr too just on a smaller scale. And the upcoming bg event thing ist just a good example too. Everyone is excited about that. Everyone can jump right into the action. Why not permanently an isle or bg for players who have no or limited access to 8vs8 rvr in the frontiers?
Sat 18 Aug 2018 5:56 PM
by
Nooblet
Didn't read the whole thread but people ran solo without speed classes before horses/hastener on classic daoc, nothing is stopping you now.
If you are good, you'll find a way to be successful on any class solo.
If you are good, you'll find a way to be successful on any class solo.
Sat 18 Aug 2018 6:33 PM
by
phixion
Nooblet wrote: ↑Sat 18 Aug 2018 5:56 PMDidn't read the whole thread but people ran solo without speed classes before horses/hastener on classic daoc, nothing is stopping you now.
If you are good, you'll find a way to be successful on any class solo.
Yup. You just have to accept that the days of groups leaving soloers to fight is long gone. You will almost certainly get steamrolled, it's just about how many RPs you can get before that happens.
Sat 18 Aug 2018 8:49 PM
by
aso
Nooblet wrote: ↑Sat 18 Aug 2018 5:56 PMDidn't read the whole thread but people ran solo without speed classes before horses/hastener on classic daoc, nothing is stopping you now.
If you are good, you'll find a way to be successful on any class solo.
yeah and you can hide behind trees, use the terain to avoid 1vs8
Sat 18 Aug 2018 11:41 PM
by
Cadebrennus
The main thing that made me stop playing my solo Merc in RvR on live was the prevalence of radar. It was so bad I created a stealther and would purposely blip in and out of visibility while behind walls/trees just to watch so called elite groups make immediate u-turns for me. Radar was never truly fixed (still prevalent on live today) which is why I've stuck with the stealther for solo action.
Sun 19 Aug 2018 5:53 PM
by
Ganaka
IMO the best way to keep soloing in RVR viable is to not allow sprinting to stack with speed buffs. Perma-sprinting and speed buffs will make the RVR zones feel smaller since those groups are even faster.
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