SB damage vs infil - Phoenix Freeshard

I do alright vs most stealthers as it can come down to who evades wins or gets to purge a stun and debuffs. Although I've noticed a trend with some sb's hitting for 130- 150 main hand without crit while at 7L9 i'm hitting them back with perfectly used dual shadows for 50 main hand and as little as 13 off hand (not ablative absorb)
So my question is, what's up with that ?

Wed 14 Aug 2019 9:53 AM by jelzinga_EU

Sounds like half damage, which is because of ablatives. You should see an ablative absorb message above the mainhand damage-report in combatlog. The offhand is listed immediately afterwards. Filtering or missing that can cause it to "look" like you're doing half damage.

Even then, 50x 2 = 100 mainhand sounds low' ish, depending on weapon-setup and speed. Are you Thrust by any chance?

Wed 14 Aug 2019 9:57 AM by Chopsticks

I instantly went though the log to check for absorbs and saw none, even if i'm hitting for 80 mh i shouldn't in return take a 150mh hit. Also noticecd with mop7 i'm seing crits for 8 dmg, while again do i rarely see myself taking such a small crit. I can't put my finger on it, it just feels different to how i remember fights going having played alot of stealthers and my mind is telling me to just play a sb because the LA/axe setup seems to be performing really well compared to infils/shades.
Yes, i'm thrust/dw/34cs

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:05 AM by Sepplord

do you have "spells" on in your combat log?

The Absorb-messages are displayed in blue color, not in the brown of melee attacks

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:10 AM by Chopsticks

Of course they are

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:20 AM by Sepplord

okay, no offense please...
sometimes obvious stuff like that really is the problem

next obvious things:

do you have your weapons/armor enchanted (aka 35% bonus on them?)

are you using buffpotions

You will probably answer these also positively, especially since you say it only happens VS some SBs but i really don't have another idea why your dmg would be THAT low. Slash would give you slightly higher values, but even with thrust it shouldn't be as low as 50mainhand. Is this issue new? Do you do anything different when fighting SBs (switching to different items/weapons which might have gotten fucked up, and now you are undressing VS SBs or something like that?)

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:22 AM by Turano

Maybe you accidently forgot to talk to the healer npc after your previous death

ops:

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:29 AM by Chopsticks

You made me laugh Sepp, yes to all those things (obv)!! :p
Only thing i change is my weaps to apply or re-apply poisons/debuffs and are all enchanted, sc'd etc. Like i said it's only against a few sb's but when you come across them you notice it. Just seems I can go from beast mode to a puny speed bump of rp's and have always competed.
I wish i was better remembering names and I could actually ask them, but as far as i'm concerned there are 3-4 sb's that make me feel like this at times, and it's heart breaking to check the log and realize you was slapping them with a wet fish

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:30 AM by Chopsticks

Turano wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:22 AM
Maybe you accidently forgot to talk to the healer npc after your previous death ops:

Behave! xD

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:42 AM by Sepplord

i guess without more information, screenshots of a combat log or names of the SBs it happens against it's hard to tell.

If they are actually doing something to make you do so few damage...i wanne know that trick to

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:44 AM by Numatic

It's likely because you were debuffed and he was not. Especially before the lowered fix to enervating. So for like 2 days, if you got hit with the debuff (which is likely on the first hit from a SB), and you swing back and your OH doesnt swing for 1-2 swings, you're gunna get hit for 150ish and you're going to hit like a wet noodle. Although 50MH is low even then, and even if u were thrust. Unless you are using a fast MH weapon (like 2.9 SPD or so). I was hitting a NS for around 80 with garrote while debuffed and he was not. I'd like to see a screenshot of this if its not an ablative. I'm not saying you are lying, but theres either a bug (that needs to be found asap) or you may have missed something or kinda exaggerating a bit (kinda like when you say "I've seen that a million times!"

.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:46 AM by Chopsticks

I wish i was better at remembering their names, Mixalis is sometimes one of them. He either destroys me or not even close, Brevis maybe Norse sb, it honestly feels like i go from being able to compete with them to nothing. Honestly i'm starting to to think with mop7 viper 4-5 aug str LA just out performs dw

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:50 AM by Chopsticks

Yeah well usually when fighting me and the opponent will both be suffering from the same debuffs, which is why purge timing is so vital and how fast you re-apply. I wish I could put my finger on it, but mindset is saying LA just out-performs DW, at least it's starting to feel that way.
Also Undacover + Morgue can be tough as hell too for the same reasons

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:57 AM by Numatic

Chopsticks wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:50 AM
Yeah well usually when fighting me and the opponent will both be suffering from the same debuffs, which is why purge timing is so vital and how fast you re-apply. I wish I could put my finger on it, but mindset is saying LA just out-performs DW, at least it's starting to feel that way.
Also Undacover + Morgue can be tough as hell too for the same reasons

You can spec much higher in DW than a SB can in LA without sacrificing something. And you always hit for 100% of your damage. While a SB only hits for a certain %. Honestly it just works out in the end. The one thing a SB does have is the poison advantage. Since the OH swings every time, it's easy to reapply poisons. On my SB I still have a tough time against slash infils.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:59 AM by Turano

It may be a combination of ws/con debuff poison and str/con debuff charge. No idea how many use them but it would surely always be the same

Wed 14 Aug 2019 11:04 AM by Chopsticks

Both fair points, and i'm keeping an eye out for the s/c debuff charge, only seen a few rangers using it over the last couple of days

Wed 14 Aug 2019 11:35 AM by REVOLTE

i liked the essay one better.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 11:48 AM by Chopsticks

Bit of downtime between add's Rev?

Wed 14 Aug 2019 1:18 PM by Mavella

Comp 52 weapon?

Wed 14 Aug 2019 1:24 PM by Chopsticks

Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 1:18 PM
Comp 52 weapon?

Yes sir

Wed 14 Aug 2019 1:52 PM by Taniquetil

Really surprised to hear that low dps, even when debuffed to hell with enerv and strcon debuff (Sb's have this as a weapon proc) and str debuff I hit harder than that as a blade luri. 90-100ish a swing. Them hitting you for 150 pretty much tells me they resisted or purged your debuff. No SB hits for 150mh no crit no dmg add when debuffed.

Are you pierce spec?

Maybe screenshot and post a log next time you see it happen, and a screenshot of your debuffs or a clip would be good.

Cant think of a good reason you'd hit for 50 only excluding abla or lack of buffs or a major flaw, theres no secret sauce, and all those named SB's are very beatable.

Will send you a pm too

Wed 14 Aug 2019 2:19 PM by Chopsticks

I've started recording again just so I can have a slightly better way of showing exactly what happens, because at the end of the day I want to know so I can remedy it.
Cheers for the pm Tani, appreciate it .

Wed 14 Aug 2019 2:37 PM by Taniquetil

Np, yeah share a vid or a log when you notice it. Also if it was the other day, the enerv debuff got buffed temporarily so the debuff effect was really aggresive, dropped my MH dmg on garotte to about 80 when fully debuffed, not 50.

Thats not the case any more it got paired back to a more reasonable level so you should do more dmg again now.

But equally SB dmg was also affected if they didnt resist the enerv so that should have still been level playing field.

The str/con proc or charge arent really worth worrying about. you have your own versions of them.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 3:01 PM by Freedomcall

writing reduced dmg too will help ppl understand more correctly.
It is hard to believe that 50 was your solely 'mainhand' 'duel shadow' dmg, but if the combat log showed like 50(-29), you can assure that there was no ablative working. And if it was 50(-57), it is definately abla.

And i assume 130-150 he did was not the anytimer. I can't be perfectly sure cuz i didnt see the fight myself, but i think it mustve been reactives or positionals if required poisons were all applied.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 3:16 PM by Sepplord

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 3:01 PM
writing reduced dmg too will help ppl understand more correctly.
It is hard to believe that 50 was your solely 'mainhand' 'duel shadow' dmg, but if the combat log showed like 50(-29), you can assure that there was no ablative working. And if it was 50(-57), it is definately abla.

And i assume 130-150 he did was not the anytimer. I can't be perfectly sure cuz i didnt see the fight myself, but i think it mustve been reactives or positionals if required poisons were all applied.

Imo that would make it less transparent...the numbers in bracket are modifications to the actual dmg of the hit to the player.
Ablative shows as speellabsorb in a different color.

Mixing both together wouldn't make it more clear?

Wed 14 Aug 2019 3:55 PM by FiltyTrator

The way you worded your spec sounds like you are using thrust/DW styles? If you aren't using hamstring chain, that why your damage sucks.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 5:07 PM by Freedomcall

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 3:16 PM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 3:01 PM
writing reduced dmg too will help ppl understand more correctly.
It is hard to believe that 50 was your solely 'mainhand' 'duel shadow' dmg, but if the combat log showed like 50(-29), you can assure that there was no ablative working. And if it was 50(-57), it is definately abla.

And i assume 130-150 he did was not the anytimer. I can't be perfectly sure cuz i didnt see the fight myself, but i think it mustve been reactives or positionals if required poisons were all applied.

Imo that would make it less transparent...the numbers in bracket are modifications to the actual dmg of the hit to the player.
Ablative shows as speellabsorb in a different color.

Mixing both together wouldn't make it more clear?

Of course, writing both will make it more clear.
But i sometimes see some ppl fail to find absorbs from combat log for some reason.
Then, this becomes the most possible to way to 'interpret' what happened.
Most of the absorbs ppl use is 50% one, and considering that 50 is an uncommon dmg as a Styled-dmg, I can 'assume' that 50% dmg reduction would've worked fully on that situation.
So you can calculate using the numbers in bracket to get a more closer look when you only have limited information.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 5:28 PM by Numatic

FiltyTrator wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 3:55 PM
The way you worded your spec sounds like you are using thrust/DW styles? If you aren't using hamstring chain, that why your damage sucks.

Even if that was the case, that's not going to excuse 50dmg MH swing. An unstyled swing should hit for more than that.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 5:52 PM by Lillebror

My guess would be BD absorb buff. (The same buff you can Get from Necro) is my best bet.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 7:16 PM by Chopsticks

BD absorb buff might well be it, always assumed that came up in the log though under the same text as ablatives.
FiltyTrator : I'm 50dw so I use dual shadows as my main style backed up by beartooth or the dw evade chain

Wed 14 Aug 2019 7:30 PM by Mavella

WS debuff + str/con proc + disease + 26-28% base resist + 10% armor resist + abs buff could certainly neuter that damage down to the 50 range especially if your mainhand is on the faster side. This is also like worst case possible scenario for you unfortunately.