Keep camping - Phoenix Freeshard

I understand people camp and play their own way, but imo the keep camping is getting out of control.
Yesterday i saw a rr8 player running around his keep for over 4 hours, all he did was add on every fight he could reach or run away if out numbered.
Maybe a -90%+ rp penalty for fighting near a keep your faction controls that isn't under attack.
It may actually make people remove the training wheels and open up this vast map to new locations because atm all NF has done is force all the tk/mg campers to camp a bridge or keep instead while at the same time making the world alot bigger and taking way more patience to find decent action.
No idea how to implement it, but it has to change, it's so dull.
Yes, someone died in an RvR zone pepe

Tue 13 Aug 2019 1:25 PM by Moid

This is an example of someone who wants to force others to play his way. Ironically the very changes he wants will cause some people to stop playing, some of those “keep campers” specifically. This will result in fewer people for the poster to fight in RvR zones. Ironically, again, one of the poster’s complaints is that he doesn’t find enough action in RvR. So his “solution” to his “problem” will actually result in even fewer players in RvR zones thereby making his problem worse.

I will not be at all surprised if the developers here make more changes to discourage the “keep camping” player base. The tyrant seems to go off in random unpredictable tangents with the direction of the server frequently.

Tue 13 Aug 2019 1:44 PM by Sepplord

i really don't get how those people motivate themselves to do that day in day out....but what i also don't get is why it is so bothersome for some people that they come up with something as ridiculous as -90% RP penalties for people playing "NPC guard duty" at one of their realms keeps?

yeah it can be frustrating to "work your ass off" and get puny RPs and then /stats one of the coast guards and see they are raking in just as much or even more...but at the end of the day? no one gives a single shit about your realmrank or theirs. It's only your own concern.

Tue 13 Aug 2019 1:48 PM by Chopsticks

There's irony in the fact the action is plentiful, but popping on one to die to 3-xx amount of people isn't quality action. I realize people have the choice to play how they want and accept it. I can still farm 50k a day so as I said the action is always busy.
Just be nice to see people motivated to move away, create more random interactions in different places opening the world up and remove some of the tedium.
If it's just me who thinks this way fair enough, I'm aware you cannot force people to play in a certain way, but given the chance, if players can get progression easier than really stepping out of their comfort zone, in my experience most usually take that option.

Yeah -90% just a knee jerk suggestion, just anything to make them really want to get out into the world a bit. I personally think it would be healthy, even a +90% rps to be away from owned keeps you know.
From my own pov I wouldn't really care if everyone was stuck at rr6 and on the same playing field as quality of fights far out weighs the quantity, but that's just my personal view.

Tue 13 Aug 2019 1:58 PM by Killaloth

U solo? Try solo area.

If smallman, try smallman areas. It would be good to have a svs? (small vs small) to signal you're there.

Or get a mezzer, mezz guards and kill the guy. Doable in 2 if not too many sneaks are around

These kind of players will roam keeps or bang on doors forever, you can't change them.

You need a minimum of skill to roam as a smallman and you need not to care of being farmed by full grps. You need to enjoy losing and trying again. Devs cannot enforce these things on people I'm afraid

Tue 13 Aug 2019 2:18 PM by Chopsticks

Loosing is part and parcel of the game, that was words put into my mouth. I'd just love to see the world open up a little bit more especially now were on such a large forever changing map, yet it can get a little stale.
I think you're right though Killa there is no way to force them, which maybe a rp boost would motivate them more. More people roaming is better than just more people sitting on a bridge or in front of an owned keep all day long, surely.
I am soloing atm yes, but I've never really been into duels, it takes away the random element of surprise of when and where. At the moment i know where, roughly know when, the only factor you cannot account for is how many

Tue 13 Aug 2019 2:34 PM by ExcretusMaximus

If you don't want to deal with keep campers, don't go to a keep.

Tue 13 Aug 2019 3:05 PM by Chopsticks

That's an amazing out of the box thinking type suggestion, unfortunately that'll just leave me looking at the views. I know it's peoples default setting to be cynical on forums and absolute about in their opinion but c'mon dude.
I'll do 2 days worth of not going near a keep or bridge to see how it goes in the name of science, and for you.
Maybe i'm stepping on some toes here, but if you're camping a keep for your entire gaming session, you're missing out on excitement and entertainment which is what I thought were here for

Tue 13 Aug 2019 3:19 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Chopsticks wrote: ↑
Tue 13 Aug 2019 3:05 PM
That's an amazing out of the box thinking type suggestion

As opposed to shitting on dozen's of other people's entertainment in the name of your enjoyment.

Tue 13 Aug 2019 3:26 PM by Chopsticks

Absolute, cynical but a fair point. Hence maybe a rp boost to step out into the world we have to play in might be a motivation. (might be)
Each to their own, maybe i enjoy a different aspect of daoc to you and others do to me. Can't say fairer than that

Tue 13 Aug 2019 4:55 PM by Estat

The current keep tasks do encourage keep camping. I regularly go to the task keep and shoot a guard to get free rps. Last night i logged in with 4 minutes left on „defend bledmeer“. A friend in discord mentioned we might get credit by jumping off the wall and taking falling damage. So we jumped. I got credit, he didnt.

Did we have fun? No. (Ofc we did have fun later, but not while trying to get credit).

The keep tasks reward gameplay that is not fun. They should be removed and optionally replaced by a mechanic that rewards fun gameplay.

Tue 13 Aug 2019 8:25 PM by Moid

Chopsticks wrote: ↑
Tue 13 Aug 2019 3:26 PM
Absolute, cynical but a fair point. Hence maybe a rp boost to step out into the world we have to play in might be a motivation. (might be)
Each to their own, maybe i enjoy a different aspect of daoc to you and others do to me. Can't say fairer than that

I happen to be the rare freak who enjoyed just about every aspect of the game from solo roaming to keep camping. I’ve never whined or complained about others play styles and I’ve also always accepted that everyone will have a different play style.

So what I have to wonder is why your preferred play style should be rewarded with a bonus to realm points? Or why should other play styles be punished?

Both questions are actually quite disturbing to me and make me wonder about the psyche of people who request such changes.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 6:47 AM by Sepplord

there are also several problems with RP-boni away from keeps:

a) it simply bossts the RPs of people that already stay away (aka 8mans, do they really need another RP boost)

b) it might even discourage people from leaving the keep, aka "i don't want to feed even more RPs to some setgroups that i have no chance of killing anyways"

c) it makes NO sense, in DAoC to reward people MORE for fighting away from the objective

Does the current implementation create wierd situations where people do unfun things to get taskcredit? Yes. But what is the alternative? Pushing those people into the open at low-RR? Will they really do that? Or would they log off or just join the zerg?

Wed 14 Aug 2019 8:30 AM by Chopsticks

Well you make great points, problem is i love the game but don't play for realm points, i'd just love more quality fights over open, kill die. I also think the NF map deserves to have more spread out action.
I dunno, i feel like crap adding on someone, regardless if they're the biggest adder of all time. Maybe i need to adjust and just enjoy mowing people down regardless if i lower the quality of my own game, and the players i do it to.
It's a toughy, I knew NF would push towards this kind of playstyle but i also think you're taking into consideration most players, i'm talking about those who camp for hours upon hours. If i camped the same bridge for 4 hours, adding on everyones fights, i'd feel like a complete cunt, but seems others don't give af, at the end of the day i don't think that's healthy for the game. I remember when EU merged with US to become the clusters on live, and it became much more about this kind of play style.
But just another random player who brings nothing, I just want to enjoy my play style rather than spoil my own and others for the sake of a few cheap rp's.
With some retrospection I've concluded i need to care less about what others may think, just crack on, kill what i want and do what i want. Not sure it suits me and may lead me to stop playing all together, but it's a starting point.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 9:22 AM by CronU

As it already got mentioned above... there are an equal amount of playstyles as there are players. every player is enyoing diffrent thing... and therefor other things are there 'maingoals' in RvR or there understanding of RvR.
I give you an example from myself.

This are two of my characters:

.
They couldn't be more diffrent. But they show pretty good how you need to 'improve' you playstyle and have to step out of the box by now.
My Healer got his rps 90% out of an 8man running around, lots of 8v8, yes lots of solo or smallmen killing. And as you can see 3.6 million killrps, just 580k task rps, thats pretty solid.
On the other hand my bard.
Still more Killrps then Taskrps, but just because the hidden 350k that are missing in the calculation are all keep/tower rps.
Do i have a prefered playstyle? of course. for me it's clear 8v8. Do i have the option to do this everytime i log on? By now, def. not. you have to get the action how its coming, otherwise you will, like alot other people, lose the interest in this game. The more the population is shrinking the more you have to adapt your playstyle with it.
Is it sad? yes it is, but thats how daoc rvr works.

Chopsticks wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 8:30 AM
i love the game but don't play for realm points

This sentence is a straight out lie. Alot of people saying this... and meaning something complete diffrent.
I used to say this as well.. but in the end i'm doing every 15-30 mins a /stats ingame to check the rps i made.
By meaning something diffrent, i mean:
'If i get enough action of my favorite playstyle, i'll get enough rps neither i lose or win'
is something complete diffrent then:
'i don't play for realm points'
if you really wouldn't care for realmpoints, why exactly are you opening a thread with the intention to force people into your kind of playstyle?
If those people, camping task keeps day in and day out, have fun with it.. so be it.
I'm doing the same with my rm atm at my free time, no zerg is running. no chance to find an 8v8 grp or fight.. thats my solotime.

greez Clary/Clarix/Lorenz/Clery/Clrx/Orid/Cliar

Wed 14 Aug 2019 9:52 AM by Chopsticks

The only time i get a keep att/def bonus is when it's a bi-product of me being at that point anyway regardless if /task tells me said zone. I've also done alot of 8v8 in my time in 2 very successful hib groups, and you can't tell me what i believe is a lie, because i learnt back then fighting Nolby/Villiage Poeple/Jack Herrer and countless other great grps it wasn't if we won because the quality of the fight always out weighed the outcome and made it a joy to be part of, yes winning is a great feeling but can't enjoy a win if you never lose.
I feel the same way now, rp's are one thing, enjoying the quality of fights means more to me. So do i want to ruin some other peoples fights for the sake of rps, nope, do i want to gank someone when they're at 10%, nope you know why ? Because i get nothing from it, please don't put words into my mouth you have no idea how i'm feeling if you just put your opinion over the top of my own thoughts and beliefs.
Even when i duo i'll let my partner die to a 1v1, even fallen out with friends because of it, so please don't tell me how i feel

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:39 AM by CronU

Chopsticks wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 9:52 AM
please don't put words into my mouth you have no idea how i'm feeling if you just put your opinion over the top of my own thoughts and beliefs.

At least my post brought something diffrent for you... how others might feel about your suggestion.
Is this task system the ideal solution? hell no.
could there been something better in place? maybe, for a part of the playerbase. but the others would dislike it and the even already small playerbase would shrinken more.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 10:57 AM by Chopsticks

Yeah, i think it's impossible to change because it's not the game that would have to change, but peoples motivation to stop taking the easiest route possible. Which in most cases is human nature.
I'm still baffled by anyone who would want to run around their keep for 4 hours at such high rr's but maybe on the other hand they would think i'm just as idiotic not to do it.
Potatoes Potaters

Wed 14 Aug 2019 12:19 PM by elninost0rm

Chopsticks wrote: ↑
Tue 13 Aug 2019 3:05 PM
That's an amazing out of the box thinking type suggestion, unfortunately that'll just leave me looking at the views. I know it's peoples default setting to be cynical on forums and absolute about in their opinion but c'mon dude.
I'll do 2 days worth of not going near a keep or bridge to see how it goes in the name of science, and for you.
Maybe i'm stepping on some toes here, but if you're camping a keep for your entire gaming session,you're missing out on excitement and entertainment which is what I thought were here for

Subjective and not for you to decide.

Your main problem is that almost all of your posts are littered with some form of "I do it this way, so everyone else should too" or "I enjoy this and dislike that, and anything else is just stupid or pointless."

Literally the definition of narrow.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 12:43 PM by Chopsticks

I've never said anything like that but if i do not put my point across then fair enough. Never been well spoken in any forum. I just think it would be good for the game to open up a bit, but people go straight to almost hate most of the time.
So from now on when i see someone who's farmed 2.9m rp's and runs around a keep for 4 hours adding, i'll not only embrace their style, I will accept it. Cos clearly wishing for more from a vast map is self serving and all about me.
Can take the player out of thid, but can't take thid out of the player.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 12:52 PM by Chopsticks

Also as a side note, i'd love to know what camping a keep for 4 or so hours adding on ever fight possible actually brings to the game for you to so vehemently go for me other than it's their choice. Wouldn't you want more as well ?
You said my posts are full of I do this so should others, yet that assumption means you're glossing over the facts i'm trying to ram home. I could assume you run around small manning soloers all day long and potentially being like PK, but I do not. Just think it's silly we got NF to open up to a larger area with less chokes, and end up with pretty much the same thing just instead of stuffing we have a bit of gravy instead.
I stated everyone gets to chose how to play, regardless of it if baffles me or not and wanting to see some motivation so some players actually move away from a keep into the vast world we have to play in.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 1:44 PM by Sleepwell

Chopsticks wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 12:52 PM
Also as a side note, i'd love to know what camping a keep for 4 or so hours adding on ever fight possible actually brings to the game for you to so vehemently go for me other than it's their choice. Wouldn't you want more as well ?
You said my posts are full of I do this so should others, yet that assumption means you're glossing over the facts i'm trying to ram home. I could assume you run around small manning soloers all day long and potentially being like PK, but I do not. Just think it's silly we got NF to open up to a larger area with less chokes, and end up with pretty much the same thing just instead of stuffing we have a bit of gravy instead.
I stated everyone gets to chose how to play, regardless of it if baffles me or not and wanting to see some motivation so some players actually move away from a keep into the vast world we have to play in.

Personally i enjoy keep camping. Moreso on my stealther, whether its a defend or attack keep, then the design itself basically lends to this happening. Its the DAoC version of chumming the water and wondering why all the sharks show up. Its simple, thats where the action is. I can give "my persepective and my opinion on why i keep camp". Maybe that will help you understand it from my perspective. While it may differ from yours, your original statement was that you do not understand why people do it... where here goes:

1. I personally voted OF over NF. My reasoning was that i came from Live, and while i knew the platform and the maps and such, i also knew that changing from OF to NF was just moving the camp spots. It was going to move from camping milegates to camping keeps. At least with milegates, you had to move between x, to y, to z. Now with open port you can simply port to a keep to defend it.. which works out wonderfully for me.
2. If i choose to solo, it is not going to be on a speed class. Mainly its going to be on a stealther. Again... if i am a shark, why would i want to leave the feeding area? If i was a stat chaser who wanted 15k solo kills i could go camp an xp spot and pad my numbers.
3. I i choose to small man, i'm at a slight disadvantage. There are the elite groups (we all know who they are, who had the time and patience to play specific toons for a good long time and have thus padded their rr and abilities. Why would i want to drag my small man out time after time and feed them more rps? You may have ideas on how to avoid that, but so i do I. I put my back against a friendly wall and run screaming when i see those groups, hoping to take one of them with me even if i die, but if i cannot, i hope to annoy the piss out of them by hoping back into my friendly keep with 1% life remaining.

Today's DAoC is a lot different that it was for me 17 years ago. 17 years ago, i wasnt working nearly as much as i am now, i wasnt a father of two, i had WAY more time to effectively go out and roam and do more hunting. Fast forward to today. I play maybe 2 hours a night, i afk a lot if the kids need me, or even if they want dad to come watch a show with them. Gaming is not even secondary anymore... its waaaaay down the list.

So theres "my" reason. Its easy. I won't get farmed nearly as much. The gm's promote it via the bonus system. Instant action. I'm sincerely apologetic if it doesnt suit your playstyle, but i'm fine with you playing your style. Without knowledge of how it actually is. Would i like it? who knows. I may despise it, but i'd never try to keep you from playing it. Its hard enough keeping the population we have now... enjoy and play on!

Wed 14 Aug 2019 1:46 PM by elninost0rm

Sleepwell wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 1:44 PM
Chopsticks wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 12:52 PM
Also as a side note, i'd love to know what camping a keep for 4 or so hours adding on ever fight possible actually brings to the game for you to so vehemently go for me other than it's their choice. Wouldn't you want more as well ?
You said my posts are full of I do this so should others, yet that assumption means you're glossing over the facts i'm trying to ram home. I could assume you run around small manning soloers all day long and potentially being like PK, but I do not. Just think it's silly we got NF to open up to a larger area with less chokes, and end up with pretty much the same thing just instead of stuffing we have a bit of gravy instead.
I stated everyone gets to chose how to play, regardless of it if baffles me or not and wanting to see some motivation so some players actually move away from a keep into the vast world we have to play in.

Personally i enjoy keep camping. Moreso on my stealther, whether its a defend or attack keep, then the design itself basically lends to this happening. Its the DAoC version of chumming the water and wondering why all the sharks show up. Its simple, thats where the action is. I can give "my persepective and my opinion on why i keep camp". Maybe that will help you understand it from my perspective. While it may differ from yours, your original statement was that you do not understand why people do it... where here goes:

1. I personally voted OF over NF. My reasoning was that i came from Live, and while i knew the platform and the maps and such, i also knew that changing from OF to NF was just moving the camp spots. It was going to move from camping milegates to camping keeps. At least with milegates, you had to move between x, to y, to z. Now with open port you can simply port to a keep to defend it.. which works out wonderfully for me.
2. If i choose to solo, it is not going to be on a speed class. Mainly its going to be on a stealther. Again... if i am a shark, why would i want to leave the feeding area? If i was a stat chaser who wanted 15k solo kills i could go camp an xp spot and pad my numbers.
3. I i choose to small man, i'm at a slight disadvantage. There are the elite groups (we all know who they are, who had the time and patience to play specific toons for a good long time and have thus padded their rr and abilities. Why would i want to drag my small man out time after time and feed them more rps? You may have ideas on how to avoid that, but so i do I. I put my back against a friendly wall and run screaming when i see those groups, hoping to take one of them with me even if i die, but if i cannot, i hope to annoy the piss out of them by hoping back into my friendly keep with 1% life remaining.

Today's DAoC is a lot different that it was for me 17 years ago. 17 years ago, i wasnt working nearly as much as i am now, i wasnt a father of two, i had WAY more time to effectively go out and roam and do more hunting. Fast forward to today. I play maybe 2 hours a night, i afk a lot if the kids need me, or even if they want dad to come watch a show with them. Gaming is not even secondary anymore... its waaaaay down the list.

So theres "my" reason. Its easy. I won't get farmed nearly as much. The gm's promote it via the bonus system. Instant action. I'm sincerely apologetic if it doesnt suit your playstyle, but i'm fine with you playing your style. Without knowledge of how it actually is. Would i like it? who knows. I may despise it, but i'd never try to keep you from playing it. Its hard enough keeping the population we have now... enjoy and play on!

Just read this guy's reply if you want some insight on why people enjoy different things than you.

I disagree with almost everything he said since it's not how *I* prefer to play the game, but that's not really that important since we don't need to alter the game around my personal vision.

You have a tendency to poison the well with passive aggression under the guise of "just asking questions," and if you can't see that, sorry.

NOTE: Directed at Chopsticks.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 2:16 PM by Chopsticks

Sleep you're bang on, it's hard to see it but you're right and have explained peoples thought process. If i were to be cynical I would still say people take the easier route given the option but there's no denying your input is spot on.
Elnin sorry you think that way, I'm not trying to force anything, just help motivate people but not all want to test themselves and their characters the same way i do because that's what i get out of this type of game clearly others do not want the same thing out of it and chose to take a different path.
I still don't see any real bonus's for camping so hard and adding on everything, but at least now I can see a few varying reasons as to why people would want to and have to accept it.
I did mention i do not put my best self forward in this kind of forum, and trying to be objective for not just my own sake but other players too. I still believe regardless of anything opening the map up expanding where we fight would be amazing, but just some kind of deluded vision of a utopian server i guess

Wed 14 Aug 2019 4:00 PM by Sleepwell

Chopsticks wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Aug 2019 2:16 PM
Sleep you're bang on, it's hard to see it but you're right and have explained peoples thought process. If i were to be cynical I would still say people take the easier route given the option but there's no denying your input is spot on.
Elnin sorry you think that way, I'm not trying to force anything, just help motivate people but not all want to test themselves and their characters the same way i do because that's what i get out of this type of game clearly others do not want the same thing out of it and chose to take a different path.
I still don't see any real bonus's for camping so hard and adding on everything, but at least now I can see a few varying reasons as to why people would want to and have to accept it.
I did mention i do not put my best self forward in this kind of forum, and trying to be objective for not just my own sake but other players too. I still believe regardless of anything opening the map up expanding where we fight would be amazing, but just some kind of deluded vision of a utopian server i guess

Maybe some do agree with me. I don't like to think i've explained anyones thought process other than my own. As stated previously, some disagree with my playstyle, but understand it and carry on with theirs.

To respond to this exchange. If you were cynical, you could do just as you've suggested, but again, until you've walked a mile in someones shoes, its really hard to understand their rationale for playing the way others play.

At one time, i could agree with you more. When this server first started. When there were 4,000 active accounts (and players for that matter). I think your perspective could be a lot more agreeable. Since the server has lost @ 60-70% of its population, then things changed rapidly. Land mass didnt change though. So you have close to 70% fewer people and for me at least, its much easier to get my game on by not roaming and looking for that action. Today's other games promote that as well.. the instant gratification.

You mention that you still don't see real bonus's for camping so hard and adding everything. I will give this perspective. Those elite players, or even the not so elite players who have accumulated realm rank, experience, a good solid group, etc. That isnt your audience when you talk about camping. Not in my own perspective anyway. Its the new players, the low rr players who may be trying a new character, class, etc. Its the solo, duo, trio, (insert number here) who may have tried to roam and failed miserably for several reason. Class setup, group setup, realm rank, or take a dozen variations of all combined. Maybe they did try and were just overwhelmed with how far behind they were. People who tried to template early, had a benefit. More raids, more gold/plat, easier to farm, etc. Things have gotten much tougher. Raids are virtually non-existent anymore (DS and HOH have helped a little). Realm ranks cannot be overlooked. I can't tell you how many times i've seen the higher realm rank Alb and Hib groups banging on Bled island farming hundreds of solos, duos, trios, groups, mutliple groups etc.

You're still asking for a community change, but this is too imbedded in multiple playstyles to ever take effect. To get those (me included) to roam out and fight set 8 man groups.. not gonna happen. To fight groups who are 7 realm ranks ahead of me with all the benefits, not gonna happen. The reasoning behind adding everythign i see on bled island? A) its easy. B) They keep coming back. C) I don't have the luxury of not hitting everything i can while i can, because in 20 seconds, ill probably be hit by the rr10 group of albs, or the rr11 group of hibs and sent packing. I don't worry too much about who i am hitting there, because they, like me, came to the chum filled, shark infested waters for a reason. Instant action. If DC, Bled and Beno are dead... i typically log, because that means the action is so slow that i can probably be more entertained by watching youtube.

I wish it was different Chop. But unless some magic wand is waved and population hits 3-4k again, im afraid you're only gonna see it get worse.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 7:02 PM by Eakor

I think a lot of the keep campers have to afk a lot. I do not have a lot of time to find a group then go roam with that group only to leave 10 minutes later because my family needs me or I want to take a break. I am not lazy, I am just busy. I play a lot more because this is an option. At least I am on the game and you have the opportunity to kill me. Use some strategy set up traps, if I am a keep camper probably not gonna use a buff pot right away I am sometimes a easy kill if caught off guard.

Wed 14 Aug 2019 7:12 PM by Chopsticks

Sleep I appreciate you taking the time to really hammer home all the other variables I didn't take into consideration, I'll give myself a kick up the ass and just get over it.
Funnily enough once I put it out of my I head I managed to have one of the best days in terms of nice clean fights and people respecting them enough to let them finish. it's either blind luck or because I'm trying to have a different view of it all so cheers again.