Remove Animist Nerf - Phoenix Freeshard

With this new nerf, in keep fights animists became completely useless. Even when fighting close to a keep it is irritating when you get your range reduced to like 1 feet away (without having this in mind). Animists have a though time out there, with bugged wisps, only root as cc and their shrooms not targeting targest fast enough sometimes.

I don't see a real reason for this nerf, instead minstrel pet charm should be nerfed, you can easily recharm your pet to remove any cc on it at any given time (yes I know it takes some macroing but if ur getting used to it, it is easy...)

Also fix the guards of keeps shooting through walls.

Dont get the idea of nerfing a class before basic features arent working right...

Sat 20 Jul 2019 10:20 AM by Aph

Ehh... charm is working as intended. If you change basic mechanics of charm those classes will get substantially worse in all aspects of the game.

They nerfed a very specific thing; ani fnf turrets in keeps and towers. Ani is still a great class in small or 8v8 and not to
Mention pve! I don’t see any issue. Just roll a warden and get twf5 if you insist on doing the Zerg thing

Sat 20 Jul 2019 10:37 AM by Hejjin

Aph wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Jul 2019 10:20 AM
Ehh... charm is working as intended. If you change basic mechanics of charm those classes will get substantially worse in all aspects of the game.

They nerfed a very specific thing; ani fnf turrets in keeps and towers. Ani is still a great class in small or 8v8 and not to
Mention pve! I don’t see any issue. Just roll a warden and get twf5 if you insist on doing the Zerg thing

I believe the devs over-reacted with that nerf, and shortened its range too much. Whilst I have zero love for Animists in RvR, I believe the devs need to rethink and revise this latest nerf at lest somewhat.

Sat 20 Jul 2019 12:54 PM by mze

Aph wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Jul 2019 10:20 AM
Ehh... charm is working as intended. If you change basic mechanics of charm those classes will get substantially worse in all aspects of the game.

They nerfed a very specific thing; ani fnf turrets in keeps and towers. Ani is still a great class in small or 8v8 and not to
Mention pve! I don’t see any issue. Just roll a warden and get twf5 if you insist on doing the Zerg thing

the thing is, if you fight near a tower / keep and you are like 1000-1500 units away from the tower you still get the reduced range. Its really annoying in fights where you are not expecting it.

Sat 20 Jul 2019 5:17 PM by Aph

mze wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Jul 2019 12:54 PM
the thing is, if you fight near a tower / keep and you are like 1000-1500 units away from the tower you still get the reduced range. Its really annoying in fights where you are not expecting it.

This is retarded, I agree. If the nerf includes tanglers that is! Nobody uses the turrets in anything but siege so I would hope the nerf was regarding those?

Sat 20 Jul 2019 11:13 PM by mze

Aph wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Jul 2019 5:17 PM
mze wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Jul 2019 12:54 PM
the thing is, if you fight near a tower / keep and you are like 1000-1500 units away from the tower you still get the reduced range. Its really annoying in fights where you are not expecting it.

This is retarded, I agree. If the nerf includes tanglers that is! Nobody uses the turrets in anything but siege so I would hope the nerf was regarding those?

it counts for tanglers aswell... sadly... and when tanglers finally placed, wisps dont reach their target... see:
https://youtu.be/iKYr4wxgvx0

Sat 20 Jul 2019 11:31 PM by Patron

The 350 range nerf is because of live, thats where devs base their legitimation.
And we all know, everything ea did was right. Thats why the liveserver are full of players.

Long story short, make the range 500 so ani dont get mezzed when casting nearby shrooms.
Or remove this nerf completly and make it livelike, every shroom a ani placing in keeps, which is not thw height of ani gets killed instantly.

Sun 21 Jul 2019 1:53 AM by relvinian

The nerf was so severe that every single animist should be given a free level 40 toon of their choice and/or free full and ra respecs because their class was gutted like a fish.

It is too much. i would say the same if i were on alb or mid. You cannot nerf a class this bad. If animist is ur favorite rvr class then you should quit over this nerf.

Not hyperbole. 100% sincere

Sun 21 Jul 2019 3:43 AM by gotwqqd

So reducing cast distance when only near a keep is gutting the class?

Sun 21 Jul 2019 7:58 AM by Leandrys

What it that question exactly ? Do you think it doesn't matter at all for the class to have his main realm defense dps tool permanently nearsighted by 70% ?

Do you think it's a buff maybe ?

Phoenix got it all wrong with that nerf, meanwhile Bonedancers TWF overkeks, any question about these ?

Sun 21 Jul 2019 8:39 AM by Wooshh

Daoc is a better place without mushrooms on the walls. Nerf is too hard? No idea, i just remember OF. mushrooms on windows, keeps impossible to defend, i dont remember animists posts aksing to fix this , so i have no emphaty for them now and still i rlly want to make an animist when i ll be tired of albion

Sun 21 Jul 2019 8:45 AM by Leandrys

And i don't remember shrooms to be nerfed at 300 cast range in the horizontal inside structures.

But it's ok. Everything's ok on Phoenix, no problem.

Sun 21 Jul 2019 10:19 AM by Hejjin

relvinian wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 1:53 AM
The nerf was so severe that every single animist should be given a free level 40 toon of their choice and/or free full and ra respecs because their class was gutted like a fish.

Hmmm

I am not sure about that Relv, there are a lot of animists that purely use the class for PvE farming.

relvinian wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 1:53 AM
It is too much. i would say the same if i were on alb or mid. You cannot nerf a class this bad. If animist is ur favorite rvr class then you should quit over this nerf.

Not hyperbole. 100% sincere

I agree with the above,, and I certainly have no love for animists in RvR.

Sun 21 Jul 2019 4:48 PM by Moid

relvinian wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 1:53 AM
It is too much. i would say the same if i were on alb or mid. You cannot nerf a class this bad. If animist is ur favorite rvr class then you should quit over this nerf.

Refusing to play a class to get a buff only works for Albs (see Friar for details).

I bet you’re more likely to get more nerfs if you quit playing the Animist.

Sun 21 Jul 2019 5:22 PM by Druth

Moid wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 4:48 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 1:53 AM
It is too much. i would say the same if i were on alb or mid. You cannot nerf a class this bad. If animist is ur favorite rvr class then you should quit over this nerf.

Refusing to play a class to get a buff only works for Albs (see Friar for details).

I bet you’re more likely to get more nerfs if you quit playing the Animist.

/serverinfo 50
Friar 9
Animist 36

Lets not kid ourselves, the 300 nerf might be rough, but animist is still in the top 5 of popular classes.

Sun 21 Jul 2019 6:38 PM by Hejjin

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 5:22 PM
Moid wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 4:48 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 1:53 AM
It is too much. i would say the same if i were on alb or mid. You cannot nerf a class this bad. If animist is ur favorite rvr class then you should quit over this nerf.

Refusing to play a class to get a buff only works for Albs (see Friar for details).

I bet you’re more likely to get more nerfs if you quit playing the Animist.

/serverinfo 50
Friar 9
Animist 36

Lets not kid ourselves, the 300 nerf might be rough, but animist is still in the top 5 of popular classes.

and most of them are in PvE farming...

Sun 21 Jul 2019 8:36 PM by Moid

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 5:22 PM
Moid wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 4:48 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 1:53 AM
It is too much. i would say the same if i were on alb or mid. You cannot nerf a class this bad. If animist is ur favorite rvr class then you should quit over this nerf.

Refusing to play a class to get a buff only works for Albs (see Friar for details).

I bet you’re more likely to get more nerfs if you quit playing the Animist.

/serverinfo 50
Friar 9
Animist 36

Lets not kid ourselves, the 300 nerf might be rough, but animist is still in the top 5 of popular classes.

Thank you, Captain Obvious, for pointing out that the Animist is one of the best PvE farming classes in game and that the Animist nerf didn’t affect PvE.

Mon 22 Jul 2019 4:51 AM by Druth

Moid wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 8:36 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 5:22 PM
Moid wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 4:48 PM
Refusing to play a class to get a buff only works for Albs (see Friar for details).

I bet you’re more likely to get more nerfs if you quit playing the Animist.

/serverinfo 50
Friar 9
Animist 36

Lets not kid ourselves, the 300 nerf might be rough, but animist is still in the top 5 of popular classes.
Thank you, Captain Obvious, for pointing out that the Animist is one of the best PvE farming classes in game and that the Animist nerf didn’t affect PvE.

Why are you then comparing one of the least popular, all round, classes to one that is at the very least very popular in PvE?
I mean, if you really think friars got undeserved buffs, why are they not more popular?

Mon 22 Jul 2019 11:36 AM by Luriella

There should be an compensation for the range of 350 units. Let the Main Shromm walk as other pets ...

Mon 22 Jul 2019 12:37 PM by Sleepwell

i mentioned this in one of the other post regarding the animist nerf. Remove the restriction. Make a statement that abusing the current mechanics of an animist is a bann-able offense. Warning given. Then swing the hell out of the ban hammer if the mechanics are abused. Expected results? 300 bans in a short period. Server rules are openly displayed and we continue to see 15-20 more accounts banned weekly. So what if another 300 failed to follow the rules.

Mon 22 Jul 2019 12:51 PM by Leandrys

No you don't need that, just limit the vertical ascending to 300 just like what has been done on Live and no more shrooms in dangerous places for Wizzard Earth/caba matter/shaman n° 6546543543574387 and it's ok.

Mon 22 Jul 2019 3:56 PM by Horus

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2019 3:43 AM
So reducing cast distance when only near a keep is gutting the class?

Well it kinda is given the current game play state. Animists (while a nice farming class) really is not a terribly effective open field fighter. It is most suited for keep take/defense...and they are an important piece of the over all RvR keep take defense balance formula.

So if I prefer to RvR and rolled/geared my class accordingly..and then a change was made that more or less prevents me from effectively RvRing, I would feel my class was "gutted".

And not just the class. You've nerfed an entire realm by knocking out one of the key legs of its keep offense/defense. A pretty drastic change of which there was no evidence was needed.

Mon 22 Jul 2019 4:40 PM by Hejjin

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 3:56 PM
snip...
A pretty drastic change of which there was no evidence was needed.

Whilst I agree with the rest of your post, I cannot agree with the above, there has been plenty of evidence of the problems that animists caused in sieges. That being said, I believe the nerf was a knee-jerk over-reaction.

Mon 22 Jul 2019 9:04 PM by bgall

I will accept that the animist nerf was needed when controlled pets are tethered to the same distance. Until you do that, don't hose just one realm, and the most underpopulated one at that.

Tue 23 Jul 2019 4:26 AM by Isavyr

Patron wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Jul 2019 11:31 PM
The 350 range nerf is because of live, thats where devs base their legitimation.
And we all know, everything ea did was right. Thats why the liveserver are full of players.

Long story short, make the range 500 so ani dont get mezzed when casting nearby shrooms.
Or remove this nerf completly and make it livelike, every shroom a ani placing in keeps, which is not thw height of ani gets killed instantly.

I agree with your sentiment opposing using EA buffs as legitimizing changes. I do, however, support the animist nerf (and I have a RR5+ animist!). I think animists really hurt RvR when they can setup dangerous clusters of shrooms from total safety. You can still setup these dangerous clusters, but you have to be a little more intelligent about setting them up in order to mitigate the potentially large risk you face. But really, I don't see this as a problem. No caster will stand in a window and expect safety. I think the animist is still doing wonderfully, all things considered.

Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:03 AM by Leandrys

Lol, ok.

Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:07 AM by gotwqqd

bgall wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 9:04 PM
I will accept that the animist nerf was needed when controlled pets are tethered to the same distance. Until you do that, don't hose just one realm, and the most underpopulated one at that.

You compare one pet that can be engaged or nullified to a dozen that can be scattered about with equal(not sure, but total damage output is greater) damage each than that of a single type pet?

Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:07 AM by Leandrys

Just one necro pet walking for free inside an enemy tower can wreck havock with facilis dolor you know.

No free perma nearsight on that one, you know. :wink:

Sun 28 Jul 2019 6:42 PM by bgall

I was just coming in to mention issues with the necro. Today in a tower defense a necro was able to have his pet freely attacking folks with aoe poison in the tower. It was hitting top to bottom and was cast fast enough to where neither the druid in our group nor me as warden could get a heal off much less try to remove poison from one of the party members. I was there. I was continuously hit by the aoe poison all up and down the tower.

The fact that the devs nerfed the least populated realm. Guess what, there are more albs out there and you will hear more complaints about the shrooms just due to population. The necro is, IMHO, much more in need to balancing than shrooms. Things like TWF affect all 3 realms equally so altering them alters the balance across all 3 realms. Nerfs like what was done to the animists (note how few there are our in PVP now) was a very bad call.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 9:24 PM by Isavyr

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 3:56 PM
And not just the class. You've nerfed an entire realm by knocking out one of the key legs of its keep offense/defense. A pretty drastic change of which there was no evidence was needed.

Many of us played Hibernia before animists. No, they aren't integral or crucial and, left unmitigated from the classic era, are actually overpowering and hurt Hib itself because nobody wants to attack Hib keeps because of the animist cancer.

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 3:56 PM
Well it kinda is given the current game play state. Animists (while a nice farming class) really is not a terribly effective open field fighter. It is most suited for keep

Yeah, this is unfortunate. For this reason, I've always felt the animist needs something in exchange. Now that they've nerfed them appropriately, I think they need to consider giving a 2.5s cast of their "controllable" shroom, as well as all their support shrooms (resists, ablation), as they are too slow to cast to ever be worth casting.

They need to be a little more viable open-field, imo, and incremental changes are rather easy to make.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:02 PM by Moid

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 9:24 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jul 2019 3:56 PM
And not just the class. You've nerfed an entire realm by knocking out one of the key legs of its keep offense/defense. A pretty drastic change of which there was no evidence was needed.

Many of us played Hibernia before animists. No, they aren't integral or crucial and, left unmitigated from the classic era, are actually overpowering and hurt Hib itself because nobody wants to attack Hib keeps because of the animist cancer.

When I played Hib before Animists there were no Necros, Reavers, Savages or Bondancers. So yeah before all those additions the Animist wasn’t an integral or crucial part of keep defense/assault. Those additional classes to Mid and Alb changed the balance equation so yes, Animists are now crucial and integral.

Mon 29 Jul 2019 12:09 AM by Isavyr

Moid wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:02 PM
When I played Hib before Animists there were no Necros, Reavers, Savages or Bondancers. So yeah before all those additions the Animist wasn’t an integral or crucial part of keep defense/assault. Those additional classes to Mid and Alb changed the balance equation so yes, Animists are now crucial and integral.

Uh huh. Would love to hear how they accomplished this, exactly, because most of the above classes weren't particularly relevant or used in keep warfare.

Mon 29 Jul 2019 1:16 AM by Moid

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jul 2019 12:09 AM
Moid wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:02 PM
When I played Hib before Animists there were no Necros, Reavers, Savages or Bondancers. So yeah before all those additions the Animist wasn’t an integral or crucial part of keep defense/assault. Those additional classes to Mid and Alb changed the balance equation so yes, Animists are now crucial and integral.

Uh huh. Would love to hear how they accomplished this, exactly, because most of the above classes weren't particularly relevant or used in keep warfare.

Really, do you even play the game? Seriously.

How about the most painfully obvious class which changes keep warfare balance. The Necro with his shade form can put his pet on stay inside the keep while moving outside the keep to see exactly what the enemy is doing.

There are more complaints about pets in keep warfare on this forum than any other topic. Which class has pets? Oh yeah, the Bonedancer who is a caster? Since when are casters not relevant in keep warfare. A caster who’s pets run through closed doors and has healer pets to boot.

You must have just began playing yesterday.

Mon 29 Jul 2019 4:36 AM by Isavyr

Moid wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jul 2019 1:16 AM
The Necro with his shade form can put his pet on stay inside the keep while moving outside the keep to see exactly what the enemy is doing.

I'm amused to say the least that you consider that a real game changer. Did you know that all keeps come with windows and they've been in since day 1? I've never even heard of intel being an issue at besieged keeps.

Do you play a pet class here? Pets are a complete PITA to use effectively in keep fights. They'll often run down the walls, to the front door, through it, then out to engage the enemy. They will often not cast in place on top the wall, and it's a huge frustration.

Mon 29 Jul 2019 5:54 AM by Moid

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jul 2019 4:36 AM
Moid wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jul 2019 1:16 AM
The Necro with his shade form can put his pet on stay inside the keep while moving outside the keep to see exactly what the enemy is doing.

I'm amused to say the least that you consider that a real game changer. Did you know that all keeps come with windows and they've been in since day 1? I've never even heard of intel being an issue at besieged keeps.

Do you play a pet class here? Pets are a complete PITA to use effectively in keep fights. They'll often run down the walls, to the front door, through it, then out to engage the enemy. They will often not cast in place on top the wall, and it's a huge frustration.

I suspected you’d dismiss everything the Alb and Mid classes add to keep battles. I’m not going to argue the value of an invulnerable Necro providing intel vs. a vulnerable player standing in a window who can be stun/nuked/nuked, we all can see the obvious advantage. Nor am I going to be drawn off on a silly tangent debating pets classes as it’s painfully obvious that ranged classes like the BD dominate keep battles and the only ranged caster who has a built in healer is the BD.

The fact is that SI added pet classes and non-pet classes to each and every realm and that changed the balance equation. You’re set in your opinion and you’re wrong. Clearly nothing I say will change that so I’ll stop wasting my time.

Mon 29 Jul 2019 8:27 AM by Druth

Moid wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jul 2019 5:54 AM
I suspected you’d dismiss everything the Alb and Mid classes add to keep battles. I’m not going to argue the value of an invulnerable Necro providing intel vs. a vulnerable player standing in a window who can be stun/nuked/nuked, we all can see the obvious advantage.

Yeah, that intel is at least, or arguably better, than putting shrooms in oil area and on top of inner keep.
I mean, I once read a book that intel in war is waaaaaay more important than troops on the ground.

Alone the amount of time hibs have to spend trying to nuke the inconnu shade. Think some hibs likely spend an entire siege trying to nuke immune shades.

Mon 29 Jul 2019 2:11 PM by Isavyr

Druth wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jul 2019 8:27 AM
Yeah, that intel is at least, or arguably better, than putting shrooms in oil area and on top of inner keep.

We were comparing pre-nerf Animists to the other classes. He was making the point that necros were equivalent to Animists who had no shroom cap and could literally cover entire keeps with shrooms.

Mon 29 Jul 2019 2:56 PM by florin

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jul 2019 2:11 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jul 2019 8:27 AM
Yeah, that intel is at least, or arguably better, than putting shrooms in oil area and on top of inner keep.

We were comparing pre-nerf Animists to the other classes. He was making the point that necros were equivalent to Animists who had no shroom cap and could literally cover entire keeps with shrooms.

he was grasping at straws from the get go

Mon 29 Jul 2019 3:33 PM by Jatar

I always cursed Animists in Thidranki and now I miss them! We rarely ever see them here anymore and it was much more fun when they were here! I'd prefer they were back the way they were, at least for Thid!

Mon 29 Jul 2019 5:49 PM by Chaskha

What about they leave the nerfs (except this awful 300 range next to keeps) but to compensate, the cast time is halved or something funny is added like a shroomshield which can proc on hit and pop a shroom of your level at groundset 0?

Tue 30 Jul 2019 1:57 AM by gotwqqd

How about making the nerf as such

Distance FromWall + (Elevation-ElevationGT) + 300 = cast distance

Wed 31 Jul 2019 2:13 PM by Chaskha

Just each time the wheel is used to elevate the target, reduce the 1000 with the 2 x elevation.
That would solve the main issue of rempart shrooming and still let live the animists who don't try to use all possible advantages (because in attack, good luck to shroom rempart enough without getting killed but hey let's beat the class we love to hate, right ?)

Thu 1 Aug 2019 6:48 AM by Raunz

Never look at anything daoc live that after like 2010 as it's not the same game even but fk animist, the class is either busted too strong or garbage there is no in between with how the class works, then again you can say sorc is busted too but who cares none can play it good.