Next Instance - Phoenix Freeshard

Unless some unforeseen issues arise, the instance will be opened for testing later today on Saturday. While in this testing phase the bosses will not give credit / feather but the completion counts as normal. We expect the testing phase to complete either today or tomorrow.

We will announce ingame when it opens, you will have access to it via the instance teleporter, same quest requirements as darkspire. It's possible that we will ask a group or two to test it even before that / while not accessible via the teleporter.

Please note that this is the first actual test of the instance, so far all mobs have only been tested for plausibility without really doing a full kill to adjust the time to kill, that as well as the ability strength is what will be adjusted during the test, depending on feedback some mobs may also have to be reworked ability wise.

It's also likely that we will encounter an issue or two that might require code changes and hence a restart.

As soon as the new instance opens, even for testing, these changes apply and will remain permanently while inside any instance:
- pets receive 5x more melee damage from mobs
- immunity ignoring stuns (e.g. amber, air pets, sm pet, druid pet) have no effect against raid trash mobs
- theurgists have a pet cap of 3
- animinsts have a fnf pet cap of 3
- the range of all spawn spells and the radius to count players will be at least 3000

A day or two later darkspire will get a "version increase", the leader board will only show timings of the current version.

New Mechanic: Taunting
The instance uses some mechanics that need predictable tank switching. For now we chose to implement this by literally using the /taunt command, it works on all instance mobs that show <Tauntable> under their name. Using /taunt on such a mob instantly sets you at the top of the aggro list and makes the mob attack you.

New Instance: Map
Here is an overview where to find the bosses.

[attachment=0]Halls.jpg[/attachment]

Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:59 AM by Goforit

I cant find info what this instance is about? Is it for groups or ...?

Sat 13 Jul 2019 11:01 AM by Garain

wait ? even necro pets will recieve 5x melee dmg ?

Sat 13 Jul 2019 11:16 AM by Layuth

Yikes. Point to me on the doll where the Bad Albion touched you.

Perhaps design an instance with mechanics to counter the current playing abilities of classes instead of redesigning them. When I first heard about the Phoenix server and all of it's quality of life changes I was excited as all hell to play. Lately with all the hand of God crap going on it is starting to make me sick. These planned changes to the class behavior inside DarkSpire should be thrown on the "stupid pile" right next to that planned feather change of yesteryear.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 11:21 AM by Eldoktor

good choice with less players...Let's make PVE harder to have even less new toons in rvr :d
.....

Sat 13 Jul 2019 11:27 AM by Strays

I hope there is equal nerfs to Melee characters in instances planned to equate these over the top caster nerfs.

Every single viable caster strategy in instanced PvE is being destroyed in this patch. Albion is being gutted, Hibernia is being hit hard, but Midgard is completely untouched. This is putting new players in a boat of either selecting Midgard to be able to template their toons -- or not playing dps casters entirely because they wont be viable to farm feathers with.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 11:42 AM by Ordoch

This looks like an easier fix than giving midgard a pet spamming class

Phoenix staff may want to counter these changes with granting a class in alb/hib with group celerity while in these instances.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 11:45 AM by bysfall

I do not understand at all the devs ... Daoc always has the advantage to anim, theu, Necro etc for farm ...
The server is no longer at the top level of players as at the beginning and all the changes you make only make life hard for new players who desert so very quickly ...

The nerve of the farm when all the old players are full gold ....
Now the nerf of two kingdoms for the dungeon ... For which we will still find a stratum one moment or another and you're still going nerf?

Seriously let the farm people get stuff and go to RvR ...

Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:01 PM by

gruenesschaf

When we announced the instances we said it should be somewhat challenging.

Petspam, even after the change where mobs don't have to be softened up but have huge hp pools, is still kind of trivializing it due to the very high dps, as can easily be seen by groups just stacking theurgists to the exclusion of pretty much all other classes.
A separate issue that can basically only be exploited by air pets is that you can completely stun lock most trash mobs, that was never intended.

And yes, if something else turns up that allows you to completely avoid mechanics or completely trivializes it, that will also be nerfed inside instances. The public raids are intended to be easy stick fests, the instances are not.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:02 PM by florin

LOL

Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:03 PM by Taniquetil

SuCh a ShAmE that they’re trying to make the game more interesting and challenging. /sarcasm off

Midgard tank/mixed groups are much more fun in darkspire than just animists and theurgists making it a brain-afk spam fest, this is a change that makes the game more challenging and interesting. Undeinably a good thing.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:18 PM by Rasrail

Nice, now we can spend more time in Instances.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:19 PM by Kaseylol

Hibs can still stack 12 turrets, 15 if they go 5 ani (no druid). Essentially a 25-40% nerf, where as alb took a 90%+ nerf with only 3 theurg pets.

Hib will rule speed records and farming by a large margin. Doesn't bother me but since the speed difference was less than 2 minutes it's a pretty big nerf to alb and still gives mids no chance to compete with hib in Darkspire.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:20 PM by CronU

Hi,
i just can say... THANKS alot.
It was fun discovering the advantage of animists or theurgist in those instances, while switching the realm.
But it was hard to see that Midgard had no chances against those petspamming record times of Albion and even later on from Hibernia.

I guess till today the Midgard record time of Darkspire is ~25:50, at least that was our fastest time back then.
The grp was full high realmranks (dps-wise). 3x rr8 Zerk, 1x rr7 Skald
Today, you can accomplish such a time, EASLY with 4 rr2-3 animists or in albion with 4 rr2-3 theurgists.

I guess this 'nerf' or imo 'fix' will hit albion hard, no doubt. But please dont forget that in the beginning there were strong alb grps running this instance in speedruns as well.

I'm happy to see the new instance later on and i'm happy that you still put work in something like this. Custom Instances are nice. And against the clock, at least for some of us, pure fun!

Greetz,
Clary

Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:21 PM by Shadowkill

Strays wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 11:27 AM
I hope there is equal nerfs to Melee characters in instances planned to equate these over the top caster nerfs.

Every single viable caster strategy in instanced PvE is being destroyed in this patch. Albion is being gutted, Hibernia is being hit hard, but Midgard is completely untouched. This is putting new players in a boat of either selecting Midgard to be able to template their toons -- or not playing dps casters entirely because they wont be viable to farm feathers with.

LOL hib and alb can make DS run in about 20min on AFK NO BRAIN MODE

Mid... 30min with good grp, with strats, etc.

this patch will make things more equate yes

Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:32 PM by Ceen

DS is supposed to be challenging, no one forces you to do it at all.
I did one run just out of curiousity, the benefits for my RvR progression was 0.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:54 PM by Teehehe

to fix the thuergist pet spam instance all you have to do is
A. Change the earth pets dmg type or the Necro AF debuffs
B. Fix the pets damage all most all of the pets hit for the same if not more dmg. example lvl 20 and 40 earth pets

Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:58 PM by Kwall0311

Good lord, All these people crying already before the damn thing is even out. Wow you cant get a speed run anymore from spamming pets. Im not even going to quote the idiot who said that this is gonna hurt new people pveing and gearing up, or the clown who asked for cele for alb hib because its not fair. Where was the pet spam for mids in Darkspire? Just play the new challenging content to the best of your ability, its not a race and nobody gives a Sh*t if your faster than the other guy.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:01 PM by Enyore

Cool beans - Looking forward to trying it out.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:10 PM by Layuth

Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:58 PM
its not a race and nobody gives a Sh*t if your faster than the other guy

Then why is there a leaderboard?

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:19 PM by Chaskha

Leaderboard should be per realm.

I play hib mostly but I agree it's a hard nerf on the current alb strategy to do it fast - dear staff, I hope you realize that most people have pleasure doing this quite fast and maybe the reward for it was too big ?

I also hope you took some time to figure out a good strat per realm that will work to get an instance done in around 30 to 45 minutes - again because people like speedruns vs big raid for 2 hours long. The challenge is a nice thing, very nice and try to figure out something to take over mechanics is always an awesome part of the game, getting off the road, finding a way. I hope it's just not a nerf because it was too easy with pets.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:26 PM by Kwall0311

Layuth wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:10 PM
Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:58 PM
its not a race and nobody gives a Sh*t if your faster than the other guy

Then why is there a leaderboard?

I dunno, maybe to compare your times against other groups. Guess that ones on you. But if you think anyone cares whos at the top, like really cares. Then maybe my post wasnt for you.

Man those darkspire leader boards were a hoot. Spamming all those theurgist pets was fun. challenging. so much fun.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:26 PM by florin

Layuth wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:10 PM
Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:58 PM
its not a race and nobody gives a Sh*t if your faster than the other guy

Then why is there a leaderboard?

Check mate

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:32 PM by florin

Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:26 PM
Layuth wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:10 PM
Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:58 PM
its not a race and nobody gives a Sh*t if your faster than the other guy

Then why is there a leaderboard?

I dunno, maybe to compare your times against other groups. Guess that ones on you. But if you think anyone cares whos at the top, like really cares. Then maybe my post wasnt for you.

Man those darkspire leader boards were a hoot. Spamming all those theurgist pets was fun. challenging. so much fun.

Some people get pleasure from having the highest RR, some from the fastest clear speed or finding the best combo or tactic for clearing a dungeon.

The truly depraved get pleasure from having 60k bps on their lvl 24 thid toon. Those are the ones that end up being serial killers.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:36 PM by Cruella

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:40 AM
As soon as the new instance opens, even for testing, these changes apply and will remain permanently while inside any instance:

So you just killed the fokus/pet farming in old instances..... great news /slowclap.

Everytime youre introducing something new...you break something old....

I really liked going to places like the coruscating mines with my enchanter...yeah... tnx for that!

I appreciate all your hard work you put into this project nevertheless

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:38 PM by

gruenesschaf

Cruella wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:36 PM
So you just killed the fokus farming in old instances..... great news /slowclap. What a shtshow....
Everytime youre introducing something new...you break something old....

I really liked going to places like the coruscating mines with my enchanter...yeah... tnx for that!

I appreciate all your hard work you put into this project nevertheless

Focus farming where the damage comes from the actual damage shield was never really possible in the instances due to the higher hp.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:39 PM by keen

Cruella wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:36 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:40 AM
As soon as the new instance opens, even for testing, these changes apply and will remain permanently while inside any instance:

So you just killed the fokus farming in old instances..... great news /slowclap. What a shtshow....

DS is the only instanced dungeon atm.
Classic dungeons are no instances and nothing changed for them.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:39 PM by Cruella

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:38 PM
Cruella wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:36 PM
So you just killed the fokus farming in old instances..... great news /slowclap. What a shtshow....
Everytime youre introducing something new...you break something old....

I really liked going to places like the coruscating mines with my enchanter...yeah... tnx for that!

I appreciate all your hard work you put into this project nevertheless

Focus farming where the damage comes from the actual damage shield was never really possible in the instances due to the higher hp.

Old instances... im not talking about darkspire...

*Edit*
Ok Youre right. Old Dungeons are not Instances.... im sorry.. forget what i just wrote. Please anyone delete my posts /blush

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:44 PM by Ashok

Bring a torch guys.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:49 PM by Nehm

Wouldn't the time be better spent fixing the hundreds of valid issues in the tracker? Many of them have been there for several months and take a minute each to fix.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:51 PM by florin

Nehm wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:49 PM
Wouldn't the time be better spent fixing the hundreds of valid issues in the tracker? Many of them have been there for several months and take a minute each to fix.

X100000000

Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:52 PM by Loki

Nehm wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 1:49 PM
Wouldn't the time be better spent fixing the hundreds of valid issues in the tracker? Many of them have been there for several months and take a minute each to fix.

someone hire this guy

Sat 13 Jul 2019 2:16 PM by capnfood1

So I'm willing to accept that there's a better path forward for Alb/Hib DS groups than a ridiculous amount of pet classes in every group. Maybe needing 4 animists in a DS group is not optimal.

But ahh, why are we continuously implementing changes that hurt the heavily underpopulated realms? Why is it more pressing to address DS leaderboard disparities than very large realm population imbalances? Hib had 50% underpopulation bonus last night, and the frontier has been a biiit of a mess. Yet we're nerfing animists in RvR and in PvE.....are we getting offsets to that? I don't give a damn about DS leaderboards, and honestly if you want to mess with animist RvR I don't care that much, but you need to do something to counterbalance it right? People can scream "l2p nub" and whatever else all they want -- the population numbers speak loudly and clearly on their own. It sure seems like Midgard has by far the most people, and yet the other two realms are getting nerfed....

We can complain all we want about farm speeds and times of one realm relative to another on some weird instance leaderboard -- don't the pop numbers speak more loudly than all of that? I'd just like more people to hang out with!

Sat 13 Jul 2019 2:23 PM by Waygone

Si, instead of putting class restriction in place that only allows 1 or 2 of any certain class, you COMPLETELY make them UTTERLY USELESS in instances?
Talk about pounding a thumbtack with a sledgehammer...
Just, WOW!

Sat 13 Jul 2019 2:52 PM by Armmondo

Eh, hopefully broadsword gets their shit together with EC and releases our classic server soon.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 3:06 PM by Lileo

Jeez people, the whine is real. Heaven forbid albs or hibs ever actually have to apply themselves in PVE. Excited to check this out!

Sat 13 Jul 2019 5:06 PM by

Uthred

Added a map to the first post and some infos about the new /taunt mechanic.

"New Mechanic: Taunting
The instance uses some mechanics that need predictable tank switching. For now we chose to implement this by literally using the /taunt command, it works on all instance mobs that show <Tauntable> under their name. Using /taunt on such a mob instantly sets you at the top of the aggro list and makes the mob attack you."

Sat 13 Jul 2019 6:57 PM by DustwalkerTM

Thx for the Content, but i realy would prefer if you desing around the class and game mechanics we all love for so many years instead of trying to "fix" stuff so it works into ur ideas :/

Sat 13 Jul 2019 7:59 PM by jackatom74

Please stop adding instances. This is mindless feather farming. Add something for these folks to farm feathers out in rvr lands and spur battles and conflict.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 8:55 PM by Woodspryte

Darkspire needed updated with some fixes. The changes to stunlocking the trash and outranging the boss call outs are good fixes. These other fixes however are just lazy and generally clueless to the problems with the instance.

As it is, if there is a class that is head over heels better than alternative classes... it will be taken. In the case of Albion, Theurgists were the best DPS and best Tank for the dungeon, so I ran 5 of them since nothing was better at their respective role. Gutting the class is NOT the answer it is just the lazy fix that basically guarantees that class will not get a spot after the changes go live. How about implementing a limit to 2 of each base class per group to enter the dungeon? This would prevent any kind of stacking since with the proposed changes all you are doing is changing which class will get stacked.

Another issue is there are classes that arent even considered for the dungeon... how about a +%PvE Damage bonus for all class types similiar to the XP social bonus. Maybe having all different class types grants a noticeable damage increase that makes it a viable option.

If the main problems arent fixed, the new instance will face the same issues.

Sat 13 Jul 2019 9:00 PM by Freudinio

Uthgard 2.0

Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:27 PM by Lumarin

The content and intent of these changes are great - however, they're too little too late. The unfortunate reality is people that power farmed DS are already so much farther ahead of the casual playerbase that these changes will not affect them. These changes will have an impact on the feather economy and the ability for newer and more casual players to gear themselves up and reach gear/template equity with established players.

This is counter-intuitive to the future of the server and the health of the population. New players and casual players need subsidizing and not to be alienated from PVE further.

It's my belief that we should be more focused on helping players that don't have the time, connections, or ability to do DS raids on top of other encounter credit raids to gear themselves up for rvr. Perhaps a "casual setting" DS raid or difficulty tiers so that it's more accessible to pugs and casuals? I've noticed a toxic attitude among albs (I can't speak on other realms) that favor people that know the ins and outs of DS and put tension on players new to it - this seems directly related to people's desire to do it as fast as they can. Adding more obstacles and having these raids last longer now will only exacerbate these issues.

Cheers and thanks for the hard work

Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:35 PM by cere2

Lumarin wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:27 PM
The content and intent of these changes are great - however, they're too little too late. The unfortunate reality is people that power farmed DS are already so much farther ahead of the casual playerbase that these changes will not affect them. These changes will have an impact on the feather economy and the ability for newer and more casual players to gear themselves up and reach gear/template equity with established players.

This is counter-intuitive to the future of the server and the health of the population. New players and casual players need subsidizing and not to be alienated from PVE further.

It's my belief that we should be more focused on helping players that don't have the time, connections, or ability to do DS raids on top of other encounter credit raids to gear themselves up for rvr. Perhaps a "casual setting" DS raid or difficulty tiers so that it's more accessible to pugs and casuals? I've noticed a toxic attitude among albs (I can't speak on other realms) that favor people that know the ins and outs of DS and put tension on players new to it - this seems directly related to people's desire to do it as fast as they can. Adding more obstacles and having these raids last longer now will only exacerbate these issues.

Cheers and thanks for the hard work

This.
It's unfortunate that right now it seems any players that are new or do not have the time or social relationships in game are penalized.
Live IMO died due to having to do PvE to be competitive in RvR. They later tried to fix this by having these turn into instances that could be done solo/duo etc, but a little too late.
I have been in RvR over the last 2 weeks trying to get enough feathers to get some gear for alts. So far I have enough for 1 piece....
I understand many people enjoy the 8 man group aspect but there are a lot of players that don't have access to such a playstyle and those will suffer even more.
Here is to hoping they come up with something that people can do solo, even if it takes twice as long for same rewards etc...

Sat 13 Jul 2019 11:10 PM by Pops999

Why are feathers being throttled? Why are you limiting feathers? Why aren't they given out for every kill, like eggs?

What the hell happened to QOL?

Sun 14 Jul 2019 12:23 AM by Rexdale

This is pretty lazy, and quite frankly an embarrassing change.
I'm still surprised sever the tether wasn't given to some mobs or bosses.
Then the time spent trying to figure out how to nerf the classes that made this dungeon trivial, that time could have been better spent fixing the things that matter.

Perhaps a list should be provided for all the classes that are allowed to enter into these dungeons.
and a set of allowed skills and specs we can use, then we could better play this game the way it's "intended".

I'm still not going to take a Minstrel into that dungeon though.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 1:58 AM by Lasrael_Hellblade

Pops999 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 11:10 PM
Why are feathers being throttled? Why are you limiting feathers? Why aren't they given out for every kill, like eggs?

What the hell happened to QOL?

Sun 14 Jul 2019 8:51 AM by Jeninii

We did HOH today and tried 2 different setups. We tried first 2 healers. 1 aug sham, 2 thanes, 1 warrior and 1 savage and 1 cave sham.. The cave sham dotted and had to kite the mobs while tanks smashed.. It worked fine until we go to the 2nd boss.. Then we started over with different setup. We used 2 healers, aug sham, 3 warriors, 1 savage and cave sham for dots and back up heals. Even tried a PBT runie instead of cave shaman..I noticed after we got decided to break that it prob would have been a lot easier if we had a skald with anger of the gods. Will try that setup later on.. Either way it was super challenging and fun I thought. The feathers could be increased some I agree but either way it was fun to plan out what we would do and how to do it

Sun 14 Jul 2019 9:23 AM by MacPrior

Lumarin wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:27 PM
...
This is counter-intuitive to the future of the server and the health of the population. New players and casual players need subsidizing and not to be alienated from PVE further.

It's my belief that we should be more focused on helping players that don't have the time, connections, or ability to do DS raids on top of other encounter credit raids to gear themselves up for rvr. ...

This!
Learn from Live Server former. Live Server got huge amount of new and returning players as soon they made it much easier to get access to gear for RvR, to rich the Lvl 50 and to buy/become seldom items.
And the population was significant reduced again as soon they focused again on a harder PvE content.

Just a very small part of DAoC Community (and seems to be at least a some one or a part of Phoenix Team, unfortunately, too) enjoying PvE in DAoC.
Sometimes PVE - yes, just for variety. But not as any kind of hard core content.

The advantage of DAoC is, was and will be for ever the RvR-Part! Dont waste the time and the man power for the challenge in PvE. Challenge in DAoC - the RVR: fight other player, protect your realm, invide in enemy Realm, conquer the enemy Relics and so on.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 9:36 AM by Ceen

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 9:23 AM
Lumarin wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:27 PM
...
This is counter-intuitive to the future of the server and the health of the population. New players and casual players need subsidizing and not to be alienated from PVE further.

It's my belief that we should be more focused on helping players that don't have the time, connections, or ability to do DS raids on top of other encounter credit raids to gear themselves up for rvr. ...

This!
Learn from Live Server former. Live Server got huge amount of new and returning players as soon they made it much easier to get access to gear for RvR, to rich the Lvl 50 and to buy/become seldom items.
And the population was significant reduced again as soon they focused again on a harder PvE content.

Just a very small part of DAoC Community (and seems to be at least a some one or a part of Phoenix Team, unfortunately, too) enjoying PvE in DAoC.
Sometimes PVE - yes, just for variety. But not as any kind of hard core content.

The advantage of DAoC is, was and will be for ever the RvR-Part! Dont waste the time and the man power for the challenge in PvE. Challenge in DAoC - the RVR: fight other player, protect your realm, invide in enemy Realm, conquer the enemy Relics and so on.

So Phoenix has almost no PvE content which forces you to PvE for longer than a few hours. Yet the majority is doing PvE on a poorly scripted freeshard.
Daoc community is PvE focused.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 9:50 AM by MacPrior

Sorry, but on every DAOC Server it was always - more hard core PvE - less population, quicker way to RvR and to the gear for RvR- more population.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 10:11 AM by Ceen

I wonder if gruenesschaf wakes up sometimes, reads the forum and thinks "I feel you Blue".
There is a whole team putting a lot of work into this project, yet the forum is flooded with QQ and plane / backdoor insults.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 12:51 PM by Eldoktor

Yeah people QQ because the only way 2 realms have to take about the same time as midgard to clean it....is with spam pet.
Because only 1 realm has the celerity, but now all 3 have spec af for example
This gives a freaking benefit for midgard because of the celerity it's pretty unbalance if you nerf the other realms because they are taking advantage of the toons they have but let the mid advantage....
So that's why people are bored of those patches....

Sun 14 Jul 2019 1:01 PM by Leandrys

Eldoktor wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 12:51 PM
Yeah people QQ because the only way 2 realms have to take about the same time as midgard to clean it....is with spam pet.
Because only 1 realm has the celerity, but now all 3 have spec af for example
This gives a freaking benefit for midgard because of the celerity it's pretty unbalance if you nerf the other realms because they are taking advantage of the toons they have but let the mid advantage....
So that's why people are bored of those patches....

I've been laughing so hard Hib and Mid received spec AF but Mid kept their beloved celerity, ha, the simple pleasures of life...

Curious to test the new instance btw.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 3:32 PM by

gruenesschaf

Equating spec af with celerity really is not the same thing. Every realm had access to spec af since the introduction of alchemy, giving it as a buff to the other two realms, with at most the level 34 one mind you (with a couple moa levels it's the same as the item charge), only kept the status quo in terms of available and used buffs while allowing buffers to fully buff the group without anyone having to use item buffs.

As for requiring pet spam to compete with celerity, the effects of the necro AF debuff are pretty similar in an alb melee group inside those instances.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 3:49 PM by Hayter

I get why something needed to be done, But making theurgists (can't speak for hib, no elfing clue) complete garbage feels very knee jerk and not well thought out.

maybe with our DA/haste buffs and 3 pets. my might get a mercy spot? doubtful.

I fully support the no chain-stunning mobs in DS that's logical. but why not but a 1-2 pet spam class limit? or some other mechanic that punished too many pets attacking the same target.

there was a problem sure, but this was a shotgun fix that needed a wrench.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 3:55 PM by MacPrior

Hayter wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 3:49 PM
I get why something needed to be done, But making theurgists (can't speak for hib, no elfing clue) complete garbage feels very knee jerk and not well thought out.

maybe with our DA/haste buffs and 3 pets. my might get a mercy spot? doubtful.

I fully support the no chain-stunning mobs in DS that's logical. but why not but a 1-2 pet spam class limit? or some other mechanic that punished too many pets attacking the same target.

there was a problem sure, but this was a shotgun fix that needed a wrench.

Thats true. the abilities of classes should be the same across the whole game. To set any limitation in a class ability just for a instanz/for other part of game is very bad idea.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 4:00 PM by keen

Hayter wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 3:49 PM
maybe with our DA/haste buffs and 3 pets. my might get a mercy spot? doubtful.

Imagine some ppl play a class that wasn't invited before and most likely won't be invited after. Did you see them whining?
There will always be classes that are better than others. Theurgist was completely out of line and will still be useful with pbt DMG and haste+3 pets.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 4:06 PM by

gruenesschaf

In the presence of pet spam, the only ways to introduce some difficulty is either making it completely impossible to do without pet spam by just needing such a huge amount of pets to have any chance at all, or you add mechanics like stt or constant small ae damage or scale add spawn based on attacker and not only players, all of those mechanics either make pets harmful (stt and add spawn count) or not really worth it.

I think most would agree that literally making absurd amounts of petspam required is stupid. That leaves mechanics, however, I really don't see how adding multiple of those abilities to basically all bosses is any better than just saying: 3 pets, that's it.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 6:45 PM by florin

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 4:06 PM
In the presence of pet spam, the only ways to introduce some difficulty is either making it completely impossible to do without pet spam by just needing such a huge amount of pets to have any chance at all, or you add mechanics like stt or constant small ae damage or scale add spawn based on attacker and not only players, all of those mechanics either make pets harmful (stt and add spawn count) or not really worth it.

I think most would agree that literally making absurd amounts of petspam required is stupid. That leaves mechanics, however, I really don't see how adding multiple of those abilities to basically all bosses is any better than just saying: 3 pets, that's it.

Cause it’s unnatural and can be seen as the lazy way out instead doing something creative. Just getting the job done is boring to people who play this out of passion.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 8:12 PM by Woodspryte

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 4:06 PM
In the presence of pet spam, the only ways to introduce some difficulty is either making it completely impossible to do without pet spam by just needing such a huge amount of pets to have any chance at all, or you add mechanics like stt or constant small ae damage or scale add spawn based on attacker and not only players, all of those mechanics either make pets harmful (stt and add spawn count) or not really worth it.

I think most would agree that literally making absurd amounts of petspam required is stupid. That leaves mechanics, however, I really don't see how adding multiple of those abilities to basically all bosses is any better than just saying: 3 pets, that's it.

This is why I, along with many others ive spoken with, feel this is a ridiculously lazy fix.

The reason Darkspire wasnt the "challenging dungeon" that you guys intended has ZERO to do with petspam. The dungeon was easy because it was designed to be done with a HueHue Hit It With Hammer mentality. Make some of the bosses have high physical resistances, make others have high magic resistance, force players to have a BALANCED setup instead of stacking 1 class. Mids are still stacking melees, Albs look to be stacking Reavers, not sure what Hibs are stacking atm... as I said in an earlier post you are simply changing what people will stack. Darkspire is still easy, all that was done is you added a couple classes to the list of those not invited, nothing was fixed.

You dont need to add anti-pet spam mechanics to all the bosses, just 1 MAYBE 2. This would still give the class a reason to be in the dungeon as they still help in other areas but due to some bosses being strong versus them there would be no reason to stack them.

With HoH being tested this would have been a PERFECT time to test out some antispam mechanics to see how they went over with the community. See which ones worked, see which ones didnt. It would have given a good idea what could be changed in Darkspire to alter setups in a positive way. Instead of involving the community and testing how to fix it, we get this "You arent playing the way we want you to" nerf.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 11:26 PM by Stoertebecker

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 9:50 AM
Sorry, but on every DAOC Server it was always - more hard core PvE - less population, quicker way to RvR and to the gear for RvR- more population.

How easy do you wanna make it to be rvr rdy as on Phoenix? Not even live now is as fast as Phoenix.

I think we a have a nice population with 1500 players at peak, and it is summer. Now it was a pve ini, next time it will be rvr related content, who knows?
It seems the staff has ideas enough for the next months

Mon 15 Jul 2019 12:19 AM by MacPrior

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 11:26 PM
MacPrior wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 9:50 AM
Sorry, but on every DAOC Server it was always - more hard core PvE - less population, quicker way to RvR and to the gear for RvR- more population.

How easy do you wanna make it to be rvr rdy as on Phoenix? Not even live now is as fast as Phoenix.

I think we a have a nice population with 1500 players at peak, and it is summer. Now it was a pve ini, next time it will be rvr related content, who knows?
It seems the staff has ideas enough for the next months

Take a look on the Figures to american prime time. The population besides the EU prime time is very low.
And I think the Team does a good job. Just thinking, to focus on PvE is a wasted time and man power and the practices to split the class abiluty - in the instanz only 3 pets, in RvR - more etc is totally a wrong way. Just small mistake and game is brocken. Dont touch the class scripts.
As I told - I think the server is very good, but I will it appreciate more players in RvR. By the way, you still play just Midi, try the Hib side, they have it more difficult to hit 50 and to equip. In Alb and Hib everything is at least double as expensive compared to Midgard. And finding a group for leveling is in Midgard a way easier then in other realms.

Mon 15 Jul 2019 1:12 AM by Moid

You guys need to stop claiming the developers have been focusing on PvE to the exclusion of RvR. They have been extremely busying nerfing the Animist in RvR so clearly they have not been only focusing on PvE.

Mon 15 Jul 2019 6:15 AM by CronU

Moid wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jul 2019 1:12 AM
You guys need to stop claiming the developers have been focusing on PvE to the exclusion of RvR. They have been extremely busying nerfing the Animist in RvR so clearly they have not been only focusing on PvE.

And by 'nerfing', you obviously mean 'fixing'. Cause the tanglers were acting wrong and now working as intend.
But sure, claiming it was a nerf is always easier. ^^

Back to the topic.
Ran the new instance multiple times now and i must say.
1h time for ~12k feathers sounds fair.
The instance feels quite empty, but if it would be full of trash mobs, the instance would take way longer, so it has to be okay like that.
The mechanics of the bosses are really fun to play.
But overall, the feeling is this instance is easier then Darkspire.
Maybe cause we all already have our bonuses or cause we are used to challenging pve now.

greetz,
Clary

Mon 15 Jul 2019 6:18 AM by gotwqqd

CronU wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jul 2019 6:15 AM
Moid wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jul 2019 1:12 AM
You guys need to stop claiming the developers have been focusing on PvE to the exclusion of RvR. They have been extremely busying nerfing the Animist in RvR so clearly they have not been only focusing on PvE.

And by 'nerfing', you obviously mean 'fixing'. Cause the tanglers were acting wrong and now working as intend.
But sure, claiming it was a nerf is always easier. ^^

Back to the topic.
Ran the new instance multiple times now and i must say.
1h time for ~12k feathers sounds fair.
The instance feels quite empty, but if it would be full of trash mobs, the instance would take way longer, so it has to be okay like that.
The mechanics of the bosses are really fun to play.
But overall, the feeling is this instance is easier then Darkspire.
Maybe cause we all already have our bonuses or cause we are used to challenging pve now.

greetz,
Clary

Considering a tg raid nets 12-14 k feathers and is well over an hour I agree

Mon 15 Jul 2019 6:39 AM by Druth

All this "3 pet max" complaints, could have been avoided by just giving all mobs "Sever the Tether" RA ability.
Somehow I think the complaints would not have been lessened though, but more fun no doubt.

Mon 15 Jul 2019 8:02 AM by Stoertebecker

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jul 2019 12:19 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 11:26 PM
MacPrior wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 9:50 AM
Sorry, but on every DAOC Server it was always - more hard core PvE - less population, quicker way to RvR and to the gear for RvR- more population.

How easy do you wanna make it to be rvr rdy as on Phoenix? Not even live now is as fast as Phoenix.

I think we a have a nice population with 1500 players at peak, and it is summer. Now it was a pve ini, next time it will be rvr related content, who knows?
It seems the staff has ideas enough for the next months

Take a look on the Figures to american prime time. The population besides the EU prime time is very low.
And I think the Team does a good job. Just thinking, to focus on PvE is a wasted time and man power and the practices to split the class abiluty - in the instanz only 3 pets, in RvR - more etc is totally a wrong way. Just small mistake and game is brocken. Dont touch the class scripts.
As I told - I think the server is very good, but I will it appreciate more players in RvR. By the way, you still play just Midi, try the Hib side, they have it more difficult to hit 50 and to equip. In Alb and Hib everything is at least double as expensive compared to Midgard. And finding a group for leveling is in Midgard a way easier then in other realms.

The playerbase in the us (or ppl playing at us time) was always smaler as in the eu, on Uthgard, here on Phoenix and even on live are/were more ppl playing at eu primetime. The Staff, whatever they do, can`t change that.
They`re not focusing only on pve, they`re trying to keep this server interesting for all players...for months and maybe more. Mythic did that with releasing addons, Broadsword did it with campaigns and unnecessary class overhauls, Uthgard 2 did nothing and....well, we know what happened.

More players in rvr. That would mean more zergs, larger zergs, more stealther. Some ppl are already complaining about zergs, sneaks etcetc...

There`s already a rvr participation in Midgard around 40-50% sometimes at peak, do you really want more? It would be more with more players.
It seems (for reasons i don`t understand) that a lot of ppl love to pve in DAoC. If i take a look on my guild i would say 50% are not so focused on rvr, and it`s the same for our ally. Focusing only on rvr would be like ignoring them, which would lead to less players.

I´ve played Hib on Gareth and last year on live, if i ever decice to switch to hib i would play a ranger or a ns. Don`t think that would change much.

And Albion? Well......... Alb sucks /monty.

Mon 15 Jul 2019 10:35 AM by inoeth

what is the purpose of the new instance? i mean why should i do it, what is the reward?

Mon 15 Jul 2019 12:09 PM by CronU

i see why there are always the same people beta testing new stuff - without any rewards.
just because 99% of the people always WANT something in return..

The reward so far.. while the instance is atm in open beta:
good rogs (like in ds)
~12k Feathers for a fullclear without underpop Featherbonus.
well and discovering new bosses, selfmade bossmechanics ect.

So if you WANT something, wait for the full release of the instance, then you will get a titel as well i guess. so you get more out of your invested time.

Mon 15 Jul 2019 1:55 PM by joy

To pretty much every single Albion complaint here.
Theurgists is not the only way to do DarkSpire!

Before the theur meta really blossomed there were teams without a single theur doing the dungeon in less then 30 minutes!
Just get creative. With what you have at your disposal you can still break 30 minutes with ease.

The complaint is that Midgard got it easy, they were not touched, and they got their precious celerity!
Let us be real here.
If we take a look at the leaderboard for the same day.
Albion time was from 20 min to 28 min.
Midgard time was from 32 min to 47 min.
(The Albion leaderboard also had more 'unique' names.)

I was on Albion, in a complete /lfg pug, with only one guy having somewhat idea of the tactics. We still finished our second run in 25 minutes!
When I was on Midgard in a similar form of /lfg pug, but with a few more who knew what to do, our second run was only 46 minutes!

People forget how trivial the theur meta is compared to the rest.
You still got a lot higher chance of wiping in Mid, and Hib, compared to Alb.

This is a custom instance, so if they feel like they have to make custom restrictions to it, they are in their right to do so.
Just because people have gotten lazy, and spoiled with pug runs being over 20 min quicker compared to another realm, shouldn't give them a right to complain this much.

A pug run in Albion can often be quicker then the perfect, and so far quickest run ever ran on Midgard!

(Note: This change actually butchers me more then most, since my only level 50 albion character is a Theurgist, but that doesn't mean I can't see the merit in the changes.)

Mon 15 Jul 2019 2:28 PM by Sepplord

joy wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jul 2019 1:55 PM
To pretty much every single Albion complaint here.
Theurgists is not the only way to do DarkSpire!

Before the theur meta really blossomed there were teams without a single theur doing the dungeon in less then 30 minutes!
Just get creative. With what you have at your disposal you can still break 30 minutes with ease.

The complaint is that Midgard got it easy, they were not touched, and they got their precious celerity!
Let us be real here.
If we take a look at the leaderboard for the same day.
Albion time was from 20 min to 28 min.
Midgard time was from 32 min to 47 min.
(The Albion leaderboard also had more 'unique' names.)

I was on Albion, in a complete /lfg pug, with only one guy having somewhat idea of the tactics. We still finished our second run in 25 minutes!
When I was on Midgard in a similar form of /lfg pug, but with a few more who knew what to do, our second run was only 46 minutes!

People forget how trivial the theur meta is compared to the rest.
You still got a lot higher chance of wiping in Mid, and Hib, compared to Alb.

This is a custom instance, so if they feel like they have to make custom restrictions to it, they are in their right to do so.
Just because people have gotten lazy, and spoiled with pug runs being over 20 min quicker compared to another realm, shouldn't give them a right to complain this much.

A pug run in Albion can often be quicker then the perfect, and so far quickest run ever ran on Midgard!

(Note: This change actually butchers me more then most, since my only level 50 albion character is a Theurgist, but that doesn't mean I can't see the merit in the changes.)

Good post, it's always sad to see how many people here are in "some realms Team" and make everything into a realm-thing instead of looking at the overall balance.

Midgard being the worst realm to run DS is fine, but when a patch comes along nerfing stuff (here petspam) that made content completely trivial for months in alb/hib then that is somehow proof again of the devs favoring midgard

People need to care more about overall benefits instead of just looking that "their team/party/whatever" gets shafted the least. Some of the posters here would probably gladly take another 10minute nerf to their realms average completion times, if it only came with a change of midgards time of +15minutes.

PS: there are similar people in midgard too, in this thread it's overly anti-midgard bias so i commented on that. I have seen similar conspiracy theorists in all realms though

Mon 15 Jul 2019 9:42 PM by Numatic

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jul 2019 2:28 PM
joy wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jul 2019 1:55 PM
To pretty much every single Albion complaint here.
Theurgists is not the only way to do DarkSpire!

Before the theur meta really blossomed there were teams without a single theur doing the dungeon in less then 30 minutes!
Just get creative. With what you have at your disposal you can still break 30 minutes with ease.

The complaint is that Midgard got it easy, they were not touched, and they got their precious celerity!
Let us be real here.
If we take a look at the leaderboard for the same day.
Albion time was from 20 min to 28 min.
Midgard time was from 32 min to 47 min.
(The Albion leaderboard also had more 'unique' names.)

I was on Albion, in a complete /lfg pug, with only one guy having somewhat idea of the tactics. We still finished our second run in 25 minutes!
When I was on Midgard in a similar form of /lfg pug, but with a few more who knew what to do, our second run was only 46 minutes!

People forget how trivial the theur meta is compared to the rest.
You still got a lot higher chance of wiping in Mid, and Hib, compared to Alb.

This is a custom instance, so if they feel like they have to make custom restrictions to it, they are in their right to do so.
Just because people have gotten lazy, and spoiled with pug runs being over 20 min quicker compared to another realm, shouldn't give them a right to complain this much.

A pug run in Albion can often be quicker then the perfect, and so far quickest run ever ran on Midgard!

(Note: This change actually butchers me more then most, since my only level 50 albion character is a Theurgist, but that doesn't mean I can't see the merit in the changes.)

Good post, it's always sad to see how many people here are in "some realms Team" and make everything into a realm-thing instead of looking at the overall balance.

Midgard being the worst realm to run DS is fine, but when a patch comes along nerfing stuff (here petspam) that made content completely trivial for months in alb/hib then that is somehow proof again of the devs favoring midgard People need to care more about overall benefits instead of just looking that "their team/party/whatever" gets shafted the least. Some of the posters here would probably gladly take another 10minute nerf to their realms average completion times, if it only came with a change of midgards time of +15minutes.

PS: there are similar people in midgard too, in this thread it's overly anti-midgard bias so i commented on that. I have seen similar conspiracy theorists in all realms though

I dont think its necessarily that they want to trivialize content. Just that they dont like being nerfed as a fix. The entire classes are based around pet spam.

I think a damage reduction per pet would be better. That way you could still spam pets, and arguably out damage a melee/caster, but not trivialize the content.

Tue 16 Jul 2019 3:21 PM by Lasrael_Hellblade

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 11:26 PM
MacPrior wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 9:50 AM
Sorry, but on every DAOC Server it was always - more hard core PvE - less population, quicker way to RvR and to the gear for RvR- more population.

How easy do you wanna make it to be rvr rdy as on Phoenix? Not even live now is as fast as Phoenix.

I think we a have a nice population with 1500 players at peak, and it is summer. Now it was a pve ini, next time it will be rvr related content, who knows?
It seems the staff has ideas enough for the next months

I respectfully disagree. Live is much faster. I had 2 characters to 50, fully templated, and all champ/ML levels done in a week. And I was playing at a clip above what I'd consider casual. I been playing here since April and Albion for a couple months now. I still don't have enough feathers to get the gear I need due to availability of raids like sidi. POC and Dragon never seem to happen. While I love this server and love the QOL changes they have made, I feel things like throttling feathers, rog nerfs, and things of that nature hurt a larger core of the player base.

Tue 16 Jul 2019 3:40 PM by Stoertebecker

Lasrael_Hellblade wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 3:21 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 11:26 PM
MacPrior wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 9:50 AM
Sorry, but on every DAOC Server it was always - more hard core PvE - less population, quicker way to RvR and to the gear for RvR- more population.

How easy do you wanna make it to be rvr rdy as on Phoenix? Not even live now is as fast as Phoenix.

I think we a have a nice population with 1500 players at peak, and it is summer. Now it was a pve ini, next time it will be rvr related content, who knows?
It seems the staff has ideas enough for the next months

I respectfully disagree. Live is much faster.

I´m talking about rvr ready toons, with a competive template. That includes all needed cursed/ow and season items like Gem of the Harbinger. + CL and ML stuff
Without getting help you`ll have a hard time on Live. Last stand that i know is that you can craft those items via bountycraft with 350k-450k bp per item.

You´ll get rvr rdy here much faster. lvl 50 under 20h depending on class and 2-5 tg/ds runs, depending on how many items you`ve build in.
Not to mention that you can hit rr3-rr4 long before 50 here on Phoenix.

Tue 6 Aug 2019 2:45 AM by cere2

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 3:40 PM
Lasrael_Hellblade wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 3:21 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 11:26 PM
How easy do you wanna make it to be rvr rdy as on Phoenix? Not even live now is as fast as Phoenix.

I think we a have a nice population with 1500 players at peak, and it is summer. Now it was a pve ini, next time it will be rvr related content, who knows?
It seems the staff has ideas enough for the next months

I respectfully disagree. Live is much faster.

I´m talking about rvr ready toons, with a competive template. That includes all needed cursed/ow and season items like Gem of the Harbinger. + CL and ML stuff
Without getting help you`ll have a hard time on Live. Last stand that i know is that you can craft those items via bountycraft with 350k-450k bp per item.

You´ll get rvr rdy here much faster. lvl 50 under 20h depending on class and 2-5 tg/ds runs, depending on how many items you`ve build in.
Not to mention that you can hit rr3-rr4 long before 50 here on Phoenix.

I have to disagree with this as well. Live, even starting from scratch I can get fully temped and ready so much faster than here. You gain CL's/ML's with the repetitive quests that put you out in harm's way. But farming BP's is much easier than trying to start from scratch here.
Get to 50, then pray for someone to accept you in a DS raid or you are forced to farm plats to trade for feathers.
Pray you didn't make a stealther to start, since you can't farm worth a piss with them....and have almost zero chance for DS.
I made a Hero just to attempt to get in a DS group for the few hours of playtime I have a few nights a week. Guess what...they want a templated Hero...
Give me tasks out in RvR that reward feathers and I'd be ok with it. As it stands now, unless you have plenty of time or have a great social group you might as well just farm for plats.

Tue 6 Aug 2019 5:36 AM by gotwqqd

Turn on eggs at 50
Only receive eggs from fro tier mobs(we want rvr encounters)
Turn in eggs at a 5 or 10 to one basis for feathers
This is a small amount and can at least allow for things like potions to be made

Tue 6 Aug 2019 8:50 AM by Stoertebecker

cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Aug 2019 2:45 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 3:40 PM
Lasrael_Hellblade wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 3:21 PM
I respectfully disagree. Live is much faster.

I´m talking about rvr ready toons, with a competive template. That includes all needed cursed/ow and season items like Gem of the Harbinger. + CL and ML stuff
Without getting help you`ll have a hard time on Live. Last stand that i know is that you can craft those items via bountycraft with 350k-450k bp per item.

You´ll get rvr rdy here much faster. lvl 50 under 20h depending on class and 2-5 tg/ds runs, depending on how many items you`ve build in.
Not to mention that you can hit rr3-rr4 long before 50 here on Phoenix.

I have to disagree with this as well. Live, even starting from scratch I can get fully temped and ready so much faster than here. You gain CL's/ML's with the repetitive quests that put you out in harm's way. But farming BP's is much easier than trying to start from scratch here.
Get to 50, then pray for someone to accept you in a DS raid or you are forced to farm plats to trade for feathers.
Pray you didn't make a stealther to start, since you can't farm worth a piss with them....and have almost zero chance for DS.
I made a Hero just to attempt to get in a DS group for the few hours of playtime I have a few nights a week. Guess what...they want a templated Hero...
Give me tasks out in RvR that reward feathers and I'd be ok with it. As it stands now, unless you have plenty of time or have a great social group you might as well just farm for plats.

All you have written is limited to yourself.
You declined making a farm toon, you took a break several times, you decided to start with a stealther/ranger.
We don`t have the number of players anymore to to Gala/Tg/Dragon raids each day.
It´s all about the invested time, if you don`t play or just a few hours a week you`ll get to nowhere fast.

How to build a competive template (stealther as an example) on live without cursed gloves, gem of harbinger and such? As i left live those 2 items alone were 900k bountypoints or 800p min.

Tue 6 Aug 2019 11:50 AM by elninost0rm

The main issue is that you're pigeonholed into very specific setups, especially on Hib, because of lazy instance design. There are some creative mechanics used throughout the instance, but the overarching theme is bland, uninspired DPS checks. That's a WoW thing and, IMO, has never really been fun or engaging. It just makes casuals LFG on whatever toon they might have and get completely ignored unless they specifically have what the leader is looking for.

Keep in mind that this is from a borderline sweaty player that deliberately rolled 2 more of the "meta" classes to get consistent DS groups and I still think it's silly.

You can look at it as a "nerf" if you want, but communication and strategy should be far more important than group composition in a PvE setting. As of now, at least on Hib, that is not true whatsoever.

Tue 6 Aug 2019 5:08 PM by cere2

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Aug 2019 8:50 AM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Aug 2019 2:45 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jul 2019 3:40 PM
I´m talking about rvr ready toons, with a competive template. That includes all needed cursed/ow and season items like Gem of the Harbinger. + CL and ML stuff
Without getting help you`ll have a hard time on Live. Last stand that i know is that you can craft those items via bountycraft with 350k-450k bp per item.

You´ll get rvr rdy here much faster. lvl 50 under 20h depending on class and 2-5 tg/ds runs, depending on how many items you`ve build in.
Not to mention that you can hit rr3-rr4 long before 50 here on Phoenix.

I have to disagree with this as well. Live, even starting from scratch I can get fully temped and ready so much faster than here. You gain CL's/ML's with the repetitive quests that put you out in harm's way. But farming BP's is much easier than trying to start from scratch here.
Get to 50, then pray for someone to accept you in a DS raid or you are forced to farm plats to trade for feathers.
Pray you didn't make a stealther to start, since you can't farm worth a piss with them....and have almost zero chance for DS.
I made a Hero just to attempt to get in a DS group for the few hours of playtime I have a few nights a week. Guess what...they want a templated Hero...
Give me tasks out in RvR that reward feathers and I'd be ok with it. As it stands now, unless you have plenty of time or have a great social group you might as well just farm for plats.

All you have written is limited to yourself.
You declined making a farm toon, you took a break several times, you decided to start with a stealther/ranger.
We don`t have the number of players anymore to to Gala/Tg/Dragon raids each day.
It´s all about the invested time, if you don`t play or just a few hours a week you`ll get to nowhere fast.

How to build a competive template (stealther as an example) on live without cursed gloves, gem of harbinger and such? As i left live those 2 items alone were 900k bountypoints or 800p min.

This isn't just limited to myself. I made an animist to farm with, but back when I started here raids were daily thing, feathers were easy to aquire. Not anymore.
Also, I can guarantee I am not the only person who started a stealther rather than a farm toon. So definately not limited to myself....
And yeah 900k bounty points for just those 2 items, is correct. But you gain bounty points so much faster than you do wit feathers here. When I left Live I could e get 5-600k bps in like 4 hours of doing the repetitive quests. That = to one item per 4h farming. Can I farm 20k feathers here in a day with no raids/DS? No chance.
Yes for some classes its easier than others, like bards...or healers etc. But overall I still think getting fully templated is easier on live then here.

Tue 6 Aug 2019 6:28 PM by Stoertebecker

cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Aug 2019 5:08 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Aug 2019 8:50 AM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Aug 2019 2:45 AM
I have to disagree with this as well. Live, even starting from scratch I can get fully temped and ready so much faster than here. You gain CL's/ML's with the repetitive quests that put you out in harm's way. But farming BP's is much easier than trying to start from scratch here.
Get to 50, then pray for someone to accept you in a DS raid or you are forced to farm plats to trade for feathers.
Pray you didn't make a stealther to start, since you can't farm worth a piss with them....and have almost zero chance for DS.
I made a Hero just to attempt to get in a DS group for the few hours of playtime I have a few nights a week. Guess what...they want a templated Hero...
Give me tasks out in RvR that reward feathers and I'd be ok with it. As it stands now, unless you have plenty of time or have a great social group you might as well just farm for plats.

All you have written is limited to yourself.
You declined making a farm toon, you took a break several times, you decided to start with a stealther/ranger.
We don`t have the number of players anymore to to Gala/Tg/Dragon raids each day.
It´s all about the invested time, if you don`t play or just a few hours a week you`ll get to nowhere fast.

How to build a competive template (stealther as an example) on live without cursed gloves, gem of harbinger and such? As i left live those 2 items alone were 900k bountypoints or 800p min.
But you gain bounty points so much faster than you do wit feathers here. When I left Live I could e get 5-600k bps in like 4 hours of doing the repetitive quests. That = to one item per 4h farming. Can I farm 20k feathers here in a day with no raids/DS? No chance.

As i left you need 3-4 weeks for 450k bp. Not to mention that live is wasteland now, you can do the collect this-collect that quests with rr1 visible toons and have no inc on ev/maze. You think that would work with 1500 players at primetime? Surely not.
Live is done, and even if they release EQ they gain only returning players back, which will serve as cannon fodder for the rest of the playing ppl.

It may be difficult for you and others to gain feathers, for me it`s easy if i want. But i have already 8 templated toons, so most of the time i give them away for free once i made 15-20k with rvr.

Tue 6 Aug 2019 10:15 PM by Killaloth

New guy to Phoenix Hib:

1) level an animist to lvl 50: 1 (nerdy) day thanks to DS grp bonus that you're likely to find - easy to find grps with combined bonus over 100% nowadays

2) level any char to 50: 1 day or 2 depending on class thanks to turn in items farmed previously with animist

3) first DS run with animist gives you 16k feathers in 30mins thanks to 1st time bonus. Run DS a couple more times to sell feathers and finish template.

4) go rvr and reach RR6 in one week thanks to good rvr bonuses for low realm ranks (no pvdoor - check maevw on herald)

All of this is only possible on Phoenix.

Once you're RR6 you can face any 8 man grp and win regardless of RR if your grp has better players.

GG thanks so much Phoenix!

Wed 7 Aug 2019 7:08 AM by Ceen

Killaloth wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Aug 2019 10:15 PM
New guy to Phoenix Hib:

1) level an animist to lvl 50: 1 (nerdy) day thanks to DS grp bonus that you're likely to find - easy to find grps with combined bonus over 100% nowadays

2) level any char to 50: 1 day or 2 depending on class thanks to turn in items farmed previously with animist

3) first DS run with animist gives you 16k feathers in 30mins thanks to 1st time bonus. Run DS a couple more times to sell feathers and finish template.

4) go rvr and reach RR6 in one week thanks to good rvr bonuses for low realm ranks (no pvdoor - check maevw on herald)

All of this is only possible on Phoenix.

Once you're RR6 you can face any 8 man grp and win regardless of RR if your grp has better players.

GG thanks so much Phoenix!

Yeah if you play all day you lose the sight how the rest of the world plays this game without 6 h windows of pure gaming.

Wed 7 Aug 2019 7:56 AM by Killaloth

Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Aug 2019 7:08 AM
Killaloth wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Aug 2019 10:15 PM
New guy to Phoenix Hib:

1) level an animist to lvl 50: 1 (nerdy) day thanks to DS grp bonus that you're likely to find - easy to find grps with combined bonus over 100% nowadays

2) level any char to 50: 1 day or 2 depending on class thanks to turn in items farmed previously with animist

3) first DS run with animist gives you 16k feathers in 30mins thanks to 1st time bonus. Run DS a couple more times to sell feathers and finish template.

4) go rvr and reach RR6 in one week thanks to good rvr bonuses for low realm ranks (no pvdoor - check maevw on herald)

All of this is only possible on Phoenix.

Once you're RR6 you can face any 8 man grp and win regardless of RR if your grp has better players.

GG thanks so much Phoenix!
Yeah if you play all day you lose the sight how the rest of the world plays this game without 6 h windows of pure gaming.

Double the time or more for a causal player, the point is that Phoenix offers better chances of progress from 0 than any other DAOC server for both exp and rps.

Thu 15 Aug 2019 5:19 AM by Kemoauc

I played through the new dungeon yesterday for the first time with a group of people that had done it before.

I liked that the group was consisting of more than 4 classes, and was not fully optimized. I think this dungeon could be run in many different "suboptimal" compositions as long as people understand what they are doing.
I liked the boss mechanics. Challenging and not just dps checks. I like the /taunt bosses.
20k feathers reward in about 1 hour.

Good job everyone involved in the creation of it. I enjoyed the content and it was a welcome break from the daily RvR routine.