NF thread - Phoenix Freeshard

What’s everyone’s thoughts so far on NF?

Mon 10 Jun 2019 5:06 PM by FingaPoppin

I already miss my toxic OF emain.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 5:09 PM by profoundtedium

I teleported to a keep, said what the fuck, read the news MOTD and quit. NF is complete bullshit.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 5:11 PM by Myllasia

Please comeback to OF....

Mon 10 Jun 2019 5:28 PM by Gorgoroth

My poinion may change, as we go along, but so far this is my opinion:

Positive:
- Great Zerg vs Zerg action if you are in a grp.
- Porting in the NF works fine. So groups can jump into the action rather quickly.
- All docks seem to be usable. That's great.

Negative:
- NF suck as a solo player. Restricted to bridges and the dock...
- Keep defence - as stealth solo - is quite bad WITHOUT Buff charges, as grouped players are very nicely buffed and Assassins in all 3 realms will have a really hard time to pick someone off.
- I am not particularly fond of Zerg vs Zerg.
- Since bridges seem to be a spot where once can find people running around, you find alb stealthers grouped up in packs there already. It feels worse than it was in OF emain.
- Guards in Keeps respawn ridiculously fast, making clearing them kinda impossible. That can lead to that one single group in a keep tower can defend against almost a Zerg. (if they play their cards right).

Possibly remedy to improve NF:
- bring buff charges back
- significantly reduce Guard respawn in keeps. (towers can stay as it is i think)
- remove NF

(i dont like it. I may be the outlier here, but OF are great, especially with the recently introduced porting functionality - which helps hibs to get to emain faster)

All in all, NF is a walking a Camping simulation. It was kinda cool on live daoc, as all were equally well buffed and so on, but here, i an dreading as a Solo player...

But we will see, i will keep an open mind and see how things go. the Staff did great improvements to DAoC. they may improve NF as well. I am hopefull.

Cheers-

Mon 10 Jun 2019 5:29 PM by Anelyn77

Actually had quite some great fun. Mind you being just the first hours of NF test, you won't see many if any 8mvs8m action or stealthers, as everyone sticks to the few places where keeps are on fire, which means Alb zerg vs Mid zerg vs Hibs zerg (we wiped Pilsz one today after getting wiped ourselves, was good fun).

What I enjoy most compared to OF, is that here you can ACTUALLY get LoS on attackers from the battlements. And nuke them, mezz em, stun em, root em, spam amnesia until they pull back because they can't cast a single spell (love it!). So - as a healer - am not forced to stay in courtyard and spam group / spreads, cure poison / disease and rezz random peeps who got killed for 30+ mins till either we go out and push or they break in and we actually get to fight.

Now it's way easier to push from inside or set up for flanks because we can finally land those CC, and mezzing 50+ peeps on one side will take a while to be demezzed, in which time we can make a move without having everyone instantly tab nuke / melee you as you go out the only gate.

As more days pass, we will see players split into stealthwars on bridges, near docks, water line near keeps with action or main ports, small men / soloers roaming, FG vs FG action, and still have great sieges for everyone else.

Given that is only a 1 week test, it's something fresh for someone like me and am really enjoying it, compared to the un-fun keep defenses I experienced yesterday.

/Bnotashamed, pac healer.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 6:35 PM by Keudar

The adventure is over for me with you. Nf is too crap .... i'm so sad ...

Mon 10 Jun 2019 6:38 PM by Sindralor

Its just a week - calm your tits everyone
give it a try atleast

Mon 10 Jun 2019 6:38 PM by Pustekuchen

its ok for me....

enough Room for Zerg, 8vs8 and 1 vs1,

Keeps .. better Keepfsfigths ... i like it

NF is OK

Mon 10 Jun 2019 6:44 PM by Tuff

Played NF today for 1 hour.
Now quit playing Phoenix for one week. I hate NF 10 years before and i hate it now.

For solo play and stealth play i have to run 20 minutes around to find a fight. Only keep Zerg in NF.
Please bring back OF earlyer. NF dont work with classic setting.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 6:58 PM by teiloh

Tuff wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 6:44 PM
Played NF today for 1 hour.
Now quit playing Phoenix for one week. I hate NF 10 years before and i hate it now.

For solo play and stealth play i have to run 20 minutes around to find a fight. Only keep Zerg in NF.
Please bring back OF earlyer. NF dont work with classic setting.

Seconded. NF is too big and open-ended.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 7:03 PM by Bumbles

You people are bananas saying NF is bad for solo fights. I think I have 30+ solo kills since NF went live today and I play a SCOUT solo...so if I can do it just fine you people must get rid of the I only want to camp MPK/APK in emain mindset....

Mon 10 Jun 2019 7:07 PM by Tuff

The only banana here is you 😂

Mon 10 Jun 2019 7:17 PM by Bumbles

Tuff wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 7:07 PM
The only banana here is you 😂

oh man classic, you really got me good!

Mon 10 Jun 2019 7:17 PM by gotwqqd

https://youtube.com/watch?v=HZHwxIL9oYo

Mon 10 Jun 2019 7:30 PM by Wushu

NF it was shit and now? it's still shit !!

Mon 10 Jun 2019 7:34 PM by Rakasha

Tested for a day, didn't like it. Please bring OF back.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 7:36 PM by Druth

NF might be bad for solo stealth, but for solo visi it's great.
So many routes and places to hide, and bridges are a fast easy place to get action if you want, but avoid if you don't want.

I hate being forced through the milegates, I know stealthers love that, but for solo visi it's horrible design.

So far I enjoy it, especially that since siege is such a big part of Phoenix, that we now have more choices.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 7:38 PM by relvinian

I think it is too big for our current population.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:03 PM by inoeth

this is giving me the feel of my best daoc time from around 2006-2010
short travel time, different areas to depending on keep situation, no bottlenecks

in addition to the buff pot changes and hunter changes this is actually perfect for me now!

hopefully all those salty OF grinders are a minority and we can keep NF

i have done about 100k today as a solo hunter!

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:05 PM by inoeth

relvinian wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 7:38 PM
I think it is too big for our current population.

its as big as OF ... i cant believe ppl actually bringing this "argument" because its just not true.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:14 PM by Myllasia

I stop Phoenix today...

Thank you to destroy my favourite server...

Im so sad...

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:15 PM by zan

Really dont like it and i just want it over with.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:20 PM by Ushysen

I stop until OF is back like all my friends on server (80/100 players)

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:21 PM by Ushysen

I stop until OF is back like all my friends on server (80/100 players)

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:25 PM by Pedro

I personally enjoy NF more than OF. Why? I'm not a soloer, I run in guild groups or alliance zergs.

I won't deny it's a change for the solo stealthers that only had go to Emain and sit in 1 of 2 mile gates or a road that leads to a milegate. Now they have to move to different bridges based on where the action is and the roads that lead to the bridges (kinda similar eh?)

The ability to port to keeps brings everyone to the action faster, and we're here to have fun, not to spend half the time porting to another zone and then running for 10mins to get to the action. And if you don't like keep porting, go take a tower to cut it!

Seems that a lot complaining are the ones that quitted live when NF released without giving it a chance, a 1h, 1 day is not a chance. There are areas that work for solo play, group play and zerg play. And lowbies will be around for the all the griefers still.

Map size is about the same, takes about the same time to run from keep to keep, there's just less obstacles and less mountains, specially for albion lands, that's why it seems bigger, but it's just more open lands. And if I remember correctly the maze towers were stealther havens as people always get lost in there.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:33 PM by inoeth

Pedro wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:25 PM
I personally enjoy NF more than OF. Why? I'm not a soloer, I run in guild groups or alliance zergs.

I won't deny it's a change for the solo stealthers that only had go to Emain and sit in 1 of 2 mile gates or a road that leads to a milegate. Now they have to move to different bridges based on where the action is and the roads that lead to the bridges (kinda similar eh?)

The ability to port to keeps brings everyone to the action faster, and we're here to have fun, not to spend half the time porting to another zone and then running for 10mins to get to the action. And if you don't like keep porting, go take a tower to cut it!

Seems that a lot complaining are the ones that quitted live when NF released without giving it a chance, a 1h, 1 day is not a chance. There are areas that work for solo play, group play and zerg play. And lowbies will be around for the all the griefers still.

Map size is about the same, takes about the same time to run from keep to keep, there's just less obstacles and less mountains, specially for albion lands, that's why it seems bigger, but it's just more open lands. And if I remember correctly the maze towers were stealther havens as people always get lost in there.

actually its also great for solo stealthers.

agree with all other points

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:40 PM by Gastero

I do not like NF

No funny !

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:40 PM by Onlinehero

I really like NF.
We should keep it

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:42 PM by Snedo

Love it. Let's keep it.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:59 PM by Enyore

Was good fun tonight EU Time.... let see how it goes for the rest of the week.

Good:
- No mid zerg blocking AMG!
- Some good group fights on EV.
- Some epic zerg fights in Hib.
- Good options for roaming and picking up groups at docks and drop points.

Bad:
- Wierd with the oil insta-gibbing everything but main tanks.
- Wierd lay of the land, with odd mob positions.
- Mids are swarming over the walls with their 25% savages, should maybe be balanced somehow.
- Little laggy on EV or was it just me?

Suggestions:
- Open up possible enemy port to Behn / Hlid / Surs, imho.
- Reduce oil damage.
- More HP to the Oil cauldron, it was too easy to kill off.

To be continued

Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:12 PM by Ele

After the first few runs I am quite content with the NF setting. The choke points like mile gates and the zone border Emain/Breifine are gone, which is a huge improvement for me as a player who prefers to roam around. Not beeing forced to sit between pk and mg and wait for enough people on your side to show up for pushing throug is, at least for me, a huge plus.
Regarding keeps: Only joined one keep fight, but it felt way better than any OF keep fight I had. We lost in the end, but we killed a lot of people and had different options to move around in the keep, use the ramparts etc.
Regarding the size of the zone: it was not really a problem that the zones are bigger, because a lot of the action was centered in Hib and you could always check if e.g. a tower next to you is on fire and check. A few times we found zergs, sometimes we found 8mans trying to draw action towards the tower.
The only downside is that some weird los issues occured, where people stand next to each other, but invisible walls/huge trees etc. obstructs casting and even styling in melee, but that can be fixed by reporting the locations that seem to be bugged I guess.

Summary: Chokepoints are gone, Keep fights got improved, roaming is just as viable as before without the need to pass the already mentioned chokepoints, some los issues. All in all I like the NF setting.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:20 PM by Stoertebecker

I love it

Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:26 PM by stormbrewer

NF is a definite no from me. I like the look of the keeps better then OF, but the size of NF makes it difficult to have fun. For zerg on zerg, I think this is fine. However for small man and solo play it just doesn't work. Bring back OF please, sooner then later.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:39 PM by keen

How can you are that you get faster to action now than before? 2/3 of the population had instant action without any traveling to Emain. Hibs got their port to blog.
Now 2/3 of the population has to take a boat to the action.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:49 PM by broalition

haemorrhaging population, must add stuff to make existing population unhappy, necro and pet patch next.

almost de ja vu.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:59 PM by relvinian

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:03 PM
this is giving me the feel of my best daoc time from around 2006-2010
short travel time, different areas to depending on keep situation, no bottlenecks

in addition to the buff pot changes and hunter changes this is actually perfect for me now!

hopefully all those salty OF grinders are a minority and we can keep NF

i have done about 100k today as a solo hunter!

Hell dude, if i had lvl 50 temped solo hunter, i would be happy too.

Between stealth and boats its a stealther paradise.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 10:05 PM by Strays

NF is a very clear cut "play the way we want you to play -- or don't play at all." game mentality.

You either zerg into other zergs, or you get zerged by them. You can't really small man with so many keep teleports, and soloing as anything that isn't invisible is basically impossible now.

It also /way/ over-incentives player-versus-door. PvD should be the lowest variant of RP income possible, up to and including receiving literally zero.. yet it's the highest RP/HR all day long today to take keeps/towers repeatedly with no contest.

Maybe I'm old fashion, but I like my RvR to be against other players.. not against keep doors.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 10:08 PM by kedelin

stormbrewer wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:26 PM
NF is a definite no from me. I like the look of the keeps better then OF, but the size of NF makes it difficult to have fun. For zerg on zerg, I think this is fine. However for small man and solo play it just doesn't work. Bring back OF please, sooner then later.

It's actuality same size as OF... seems bigger cause all OF action is forced into 3 smaller zones.... also smallman and solo action is alot better here cause you can roam enemy mazes/areas around docks not just milegates and pk

Mon 10 Jun 2019 10:09 PM by chois

point of view of stealthers : it s the worst who can happened, most stealth zerg and around nothing except at bridges so not for me

Mon 10 Jun 2019 10:41 PM by Runental

Nice pseudo QQ here, no more small men, no more solo stealth blabla.. You mean you can't farm those few solos so easy anymore like in OF when you hang out n MGs or kill those solos with your 4 man grp in HW or Odins,- cause now the solos could be everywhere but not where you expect to farm them.
NF is a great change,- first time since server release where you actually can DEFEAT a keep due the design and the possibilities to avoid a fckn TWF when its set on Lordroom in OF and kill all defenders without any chance to counter.

So much dynamic the whole noon,- small grps, Zerg, FG, solos, Towers.. no idea how any1 ever can prefer OF besides the Nostalgia.

+1 for NF

Mon 10 Jun 2019 10:48 PM by Thiccflair

Didn't like NF back in the day....still don't. Nothing new here.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 10:50 PM by Saroi

I find it good. I can do some RL stuff and twink for a week.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 10:53 PM by relvinian

There is no way we will go back to of. Sure, they will roll it back when test ends. They will make some sort of poll.

At the end of the day, we will have nf.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 10:56 PM by Luluko

Havent really played since the buff charge nerf, is there even any place you can go as a solo skald without donating to fg of stealths or zergs?

Mon 10 Jun 2019 11:12 PM by Durandal

Old frontiers with the recent port system added was very nice.

I do not like NF, I will retire from phoenix if it becomes permanent.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 11:41 PM by Deorcnes

Durandal wrote: Old frontiers with the recent port system added was very nice.

Agreed

Mon 10 Jun 2019 11:43 PM by relvinian

Get ready to retire. This is the illusion of choice.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 11:46 PM by Galandor

I'm having quite a bit of fun, idk what solo whiners you clowns are talking about. I've made around 40k today in 3 hours or so on my Scout. I intend to make more after dinner. IDC really what frontiers is the one we play in, preferably the one that people won't QQ quit, but at the very least it's good to break up the monotony of running to the MG every 5 minutes. Personally I'd be happy if they brought back NF for week long events every 3-4 months or so, but /shrug.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 11:47 PM by Exarcia

Terrible. Bring back OF. I think its the end for me if this stays. Gonna be hard to bring myself to play this week.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 11:59 PM by Galandor

Exarcia wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 11:47 PM
Terrible. Bring back OF. I think its the end for me if this stays. Gonna be hard to bring myself to play this week.

Well, we won't miss you this week. See you next /wave

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:06 AM by stormbrewer

kedelin wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 10:08 PM
stormbrewer wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:26 PM
NF is a definite no from me. I like the look of the keeps better then OF, but the size of NF makes it difficult to have fun. For zerg on zerg, I think this is fine. However for small man and solo play it just doesn't work. Bring back OF please, sooner then later.

It's actuality same size as OF... seems bigger cause all OF action is forced into 3 smaller zones.... also smallman and solo action is alot better here cause you can roam enemy mazes/areas around docks not just milegates and pk

I joined this server cause I believed it was classic DAOC with quality of life changes. Adding auto sort for buff icons, and shift-clicking to the account vault would be nice. Switching to NF is taking it too far. I'm thinking we will lose a large chunk of the current population by doing this. Keeping OF will cost nothing.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:07 AM by Galandor

stormbrewer wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:06 AM
kedelin wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 10:08 PM
stormbrewer wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:26 PM
NF is a definite no from me. I like the look of the keeps better then OF, but the size of NF makes it difficult to have fun. For zerg on zerg, I think this is fine. However for small man and solo play it just doesn't work. Bring back OF please, sooner then later.

It's actuality same size as OF... seems bigger cause all OF action is forced into 3 smaller zones.... also smallman and solo action is alot better here cause you can roam enemy mazes/areas around docks not just milegates and pk

I joined this server cause I believed it was classic DAOC with quality of life changes. Adding auto sort for buff icons, and shift-clicking to the account vault would be nice. Switching to NF is taking it too far. I'm thinking we will lose a large chunk of the current population by doing this. Keeping OF will cost nothing.

Well that's why it's a test, to see.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:12 AM by Runental

Cool story.
And who test the long term situation referring to boredom of Old Frontiers?

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:17 AM by Cotea

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 8:05 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 7:38 PM
I think it is too big for our current population.

its as big as OF ... i cant believe ppl actually bringing this "argument" because its just not true.

Technically it's 2 zones bigger (EV and Irish Sea) Buuuutttttt.... It's not as bad as having to constantly port to a different realm to go somewhere else for action....

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:34 AM by Freedomcall

It it my first time playing NF today but seems not that bad so far.
I actually dont get it when ppl whine about emain zerglings, and then say NF is too big for our population which will split action and kill the game.
Aren't those exactly opposite stands?

Anyway i'm eager to test how much NF is bad as i've been told from others

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:35 AM by Cotea

keen wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:39 PM
How can you are that you get faster to action now than before? 2/3 of the population had instant action without any traveling to Emain. Hibs got their port to blog.
Now 2/3 of the population has to take a boat to the action.

Q.Q Coz a boat takes longer than having to port back to your own realm.. To having to port back to the other realm.

NF is better than OF.. It's viable for all styles of play.... People cry coz they don't have a MG to camp....

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:38 AM by nyght999

NF was a no when first released, still a big fat no today. Refuse to take part in this terrible test. Devs need to stop lying to people, this was advertised as classic, NF isn't classic. If this stays as NF, I'll be another person not coming back. NF ruined the game for my guild back during live, it became nothing more than tower and keep humping, which is pve. I hate keeps, don't bother with them at all, prefer to fight players. If I want to be rewarded for mindless pve keep taking I'll go play one of the Failhammer private servers.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 1:12 AM by zamajoo

You guys are a bunch of babies. This is a free game. Why are so many of you guys complaining so much? If bringing NF gets rid of all the whiney cry babies then I am all for it.

I don't care if we have NF, OF, a battle ground. I just want to play what's left of this game while I can. Just get over yourselves and enjoy it while you can.

Sigh kids these days

Tue 11 Jun 2019 1:47 AM by gotwqqd

Isn’t there enough data from live to determine which is preferred ?
I thought the whole idea of this server was to give back ,above much else, old frontiers.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:39 AM by Jayrod

For a casual, I love Nf. I played it for an hour, I ran into many small mans, solos (visi and stealth) even a few 8 mans!
I'd disagree with it being 'too big' on the fact that the whole Phoenix server isn't in emain! In fact NF would be smaller as there are more things to fight over and more fires to react to!
Keep fights are more enjoyable, you can port there and defend from the start. However in OF you'd need speed 6 and an sos to stand a chance of defending a keep (if you weren't there already).
I enjoy it so much more!
Thanks devs for the trial!
P.S. THIS IS MYOPINION

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:45 AM by profoundtedium

Runental wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:12 AM
Cool story.
And who test the long term situation referring to boredom of Old Frontiers?

Who joins a freeshard with server settings they know will bore them? Most of us came here because we knew it was OF. If NF is the new norm, this server is slated for death the way Uthgard (and 2.0) ate shit.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:55 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Love it.

Returning to the shitpile that is OF will lead to stagnation and that's something I don't think anyone wants.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:05 AM by Darby

I think this test is a big mistake either way. If they keep NF, people who like OF will leave. If they go back to OF, it may be a "last straw" for people who like NF. This will not be good for population.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I wouldn't have joined the server if it was a NF server. OF and QoL improvements were the selling points.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:13 AM by Delegator

I played this server to get the classic DAOC. I originally left DAOC exactly and precisely because of NF. So...no thanks. If NF sticks around, I won't.

Not here to argue the good/bad, just stating the opinion which was requested of us. Your mileage may vary.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:17 AM by Rhox

Darby wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:05 AM
I think this test is a big mistake either way. If they keep NF, people who like OF will leave. If they go back to OF, it may be a "last straw" for people who like NF. This will not be good for population.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I wouldn't have joined the server if it was a NF server. OF and QoL improvements were the selling points.

THIS! I can see that a lot of people love it a lot. That's cool but a lot of people hate it. I hope your not right but the people that get a taste of NF might not go back and the people that hate NF might not stay.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:54 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Too many people associate NF with ToA and refuse to give NF a chance because of it.

NF and ToA have nothing to do with each other, they just came out at the same time. Actually go into this test with an open mind if you care about the server and not just your personal enjoyment. If you don't like it at the end of the week, so be it, but a lot of people I'm seeing in game and on here hate it with no reasons given other than it's when they left the original game.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:01 AM by Dacht

Early impression of NF: I did not have much fun tonight.

I'll try some more tomorrow nad see how it evolves.

But a point: I rolled on this server because I liked OF and was looking for the gameplay that came with it.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:02 AM by Joc

Its decent so far. As a soloer ive had no issue finding decent fights. I mostly solo or duo with guild SB, so no complaints so far.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:05 AM by Darby

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:54 AM
Too many people associate NF with ToA and refuse to give NF a chance because of it.

NF and ToA have nothing to do with each other, they just came out at the same time. Actually go into this test with an open mind if you care about the server and not just your personal enjoyment. If you don't like it at the end of the week, so be it, but a lot of people I'm seeing in game and on here hate it with no reasons given other than it's when they left the original game.

LOL, not sure why else I'm going to play games in my personal time.

I played plenty of NF on Ywain when I came back the first time, I'm over it.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:06 AM by relvinian

Like NF? You are enlightened and a cool kid.

Don't like NF and want OF? Cry more newb. It's a free server, if you don't like it get out.

Just a little hyperbole.

Just a little condensing the nuance of the culture.

My honest impression is i don't mind the test. Sort of interesting. I think many aspects could be fun but its too big for our population.

I think if it were necessary that we could do it and the server would be ok. I don't prefer it right now.

I would even add that the test shows a flexibility and diligence on the part of the devs that is promising for the future of the server.

Now fix shrooms in windows.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:22 AM by Lioucis

Just my 2 cents but I hate NF, if I wanted to play NF I would go to live. that said I won't quit playing just because of NF so I guess my opinion don't matter

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:25 AM by teiloh

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:54 AM
Too many people associate NF with ToA and refuse to give NF a chance because of it.

NF and ToA have nothing to do with each other, they just came out at the same time. Actually go into this test with an open mind if you care about the server and not just your personal enjoyment. If you don't like it at the end of the week, so be it, but a lot of people I'm seeing in game and on here hate it with no reasons given other than it's when they left the original game.

There was almost a year of TOA + OF, which was some of the most fun I've had in a game.

NF helped a lot of people make the decision to go WoW.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:27 AM by profoundtedium

Darby wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:05 AM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:54 AM
Too many people associate NF with ToA and refuse to give NF a chance because of it.

NF and ToA have nothing to do with each other, they just came out at the same time. Actually go into this test with an open mind if you care about the server and not just your personal enjoyment. If you don't like it at the end of the week, so be it, but a lot of people I'm seeing in game and on here hate it with no reasons given other than it's when they left the original game.

LOL, not sure why else I'm going to play games in my personal time.

I played plenty of NF on Ywain when I came back the first time, I'm over it.

I LOL'd this pretty hard too. People who SUFFERED through this on live at release don't need a test. Not everyone up and quit cold turkey with ToA, that's a fallacy. ToA killed the game, that's a fact. But a lot of us kept playing and paying, and hoping shit would get better. Some hung around longer than others. Some went back to live more times than others over-time. We all know WHEN the game went to shit, and we all know how great Classic + SI +OF is, because every time someone makes a freeshard on that premise it blows the fuck up. And then they eventually change their premise, those they baited into joining and playing lose their interest and your left with a small group of people and another dead freeshard. That's what it filters out to; that's the end game for a server that breaks away from its selling points. If the test was designed to get more people involved with the forum to voice their opinions, than to play the game as advertised, then the test is a resounding success.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:29 AM by Nachtfee

NF would have been good 2 months ago, when the player pop. was at 3000-4000 players. now with an average number of players of 900 - 1200 is OF the better choice.

for 8vs8 ( im no fan of it so .. ) maybe NF the better choice, for solo´s it ends in Bridge camping.

NF is at least with me lagging much more then OF. It´s a hard decision, what is better Keeplayouts, Tower are still great in NF, but the map ist a way to big for our Pop.

But that Day 1 maybe some player came back and the pop increase, we habe 6 day left to test.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:37 AM by brewtus23

I gave NF a test tonight and i had some good battles. However they were all at a bridge but they were fun battles. I ran around solo looking for fights and was a waste of time. NF map is just to big for the population we have now. I like many others came back to play this game on phoenix server because of the selling points of OF and Si and the QoL that the dev's added into the game. I was playing on live server before here and it just wasn't fun anymore. If i wanted to still be playing NF i would have kept playing on Live servers. I know this is the first day and i won't quit playing if NF stays however i am sure my play time will greatly be reduced because of it.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:48 AM by Stoertebecker

profoundtedium wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:27 AM
Darby wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:05 AM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:54 AM
Too many people associate NF with ToA and refuse to give NF a chance because of it.

NF and ToA have nothing to do with each other, they just came out at the same time. Actually go into this test with an open mind if you care about the server and not just your personal enjoyment. If you don't like it at the end of the week, so be it, but a lot of people I'm seeing in game and on here hate it with no reasons given other than it's when they left the original game.

LOL, not sure why else I'm going to play games in my personal time.

I played plenty of NF on Ywain when I came back the first time, I'm over it.

I LOL'd this pretty hard too. People who SUFFERED through this on live at release don't need a test. Not everyone up and quit cold turkey with ToA, that's a fallacy. ToA killed the game, that's a fact.

The release of World of Warcraft killed the game, thats a fact, ToA was the most successful addon that Mythic released, more than SI.
That was independently stated by MJ and MF, they have the numbers and should know it better than anybody else. DAoC lost 50% of its player to WoW and other games that released in 2004.

Lioucis wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:22 AM
Just my 2 cents but I hate NF, if I wanted to play NF I would go to live.

No, you would not. I`ve played last year on live and the gameplay over there has absolutly nothing to do with playing on Uthgard or Phoenix.
This here would be the better server, even with ToA.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:52 AM by Calad

I played heavily for the first 2-3 months of this server, then OF grew very stale. Most of my RvR is done solo/small man. I checked in maybe once or twice a week after that, i probably spend more time PvEing than RvR in that time. Fights became so pigeonholed, getting choked out at the PK or MG was incredibly frustrating. The constant revisions to the RvR task system did nothing to keep RvR fresh. My favorite memories of OF on original release were the epic keep battles and relic raids, their incarnation on phoenix left a lot to be desired.

I've been playing NF all day and been enjoying it. The Keep TP system is infinitely better than the domination teleporting. I feel like I have options in where I can try look for fights. Battles at keeps/towers are more fun, the design/layout just makes the fights more dynamic. I'm thrilled they did away with diving in the water, it really made fights obnoxious.

A recommendation; I would definitely reduce speed in water a bit. The bridges/chokepoints seem kinda pointless considering.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:59 AM by Darby

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:48 AM
profoundtedium wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:27 AM
Darby wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:05 AM
LOL, not sure why else I'm going to play games in my personal time.

I played plenty of NF on Ywain when I came back the first time, I'm over it.

I LOL'd this pretty hard too. People who SUFFERED through this on live at release don't need a test. Not everyone up and quit cold turkey with ToA, that's a fallacy. ToA killed the game, that's a fact.

The release of World of Warcraft killed the game, thats a fact, ToA was the most successful addon that Mythic released, more than SI.
That was independently stated by MJ and MF, they have the numbers and should know it better than anybody else. DAoC lost 50% of its player to WoW and other games that released in 2004.

TOA came out when the population was its biggest, of course it would be their best expansion financially. In an MMO, you were kind of forced to buy the expansions or else be an outcast in the game. By the time people decided they didn't like TOA (several months of playing through the content), they already had the expansion. I do agree, WoW had a lot to do with it, but I think a lot of people went to WoW because they were frustrated with DAoC.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:30 AM by REVOLTE

ill keep it simple.
if devs permaswitch to NF = i quit.

its just not for me.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:34 AM by Inkwell84

ToA killed daoc for me. I played long after it came out, but the amount of grinding it took to be able to rvr with a temp was just toxic not fun.

I came here for 1.65+QoL. To me 1.65 includes OF. I don’t mind the buff changes. Think there’s just enough pve, any more I’d quit, any less it wouldn’t be rewarding.

I remember NF being too big and open ended even for hib lance during prime time in 2004/2005.

I haven’t had a chance to play NF here yet. I’ll post my thoughts but expect to find there’s a zerg doing player vs door (not for me) and lots of stealth at Bridge (not for me) and very poor small man action because the structure of NF provides so many places to roam you hit the lottery if you actually find another small man group.

Even if NF is fun devs should, at most, just rotate OF/NF weekly so as not to lose the die-hard players committed one way or another.

NF keep in OF is the best, but pretty sure they can’t do that. I do wish they’d find a way to make relics meaningful.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:34 AM by Ushysen

We dont play on classic server to rvr on this map. It s simple

Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:46 AM by AngelRose

I quit because of OF maps. This is a great change. I will be playing more

Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:51 AM by inky2019

NF = death of server

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:11 AM by Stoertebecker

Darby wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:59 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:48 AM
profoundtedium wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:27 AM
I LOL'd this pretty hard too. People who SUFFERED through this on live at release don't need a test. Not everyone up and quit cold turkey with ToA, that's a fallacy. ToA killed the game, that's a fact.

The release of World of Warcraft killed the game, thats a fact, ToA was the most successful addon that Mythic released, more than SI.
That was independently stated by MJ and MF, they have the numbers and should know it better than anybody else. DAoC lost 50% of its player to WoW and other games that released in 2004.

TOA came out when the population was its biggest, of course it would be their best expansion financially. In an MMO, you were kind of forced to buy the expansions or else be an outcast in the game. By the time people decided they didn't like TOA (several months of playing through the content), they already had the expansion. I do agree, WoW had a lot to do with it, but I think a lot of people went to WoW because they were frustrated with DAoC.

They went to WoW because they know the stand alone games and because it`s Blizzard. WoW wasn`t the only that released end of 2003 and in 2004.
Horizons, Everquest 2, Ryzom etcetc. They all had their part in the population decline in DAoC. The very last factor was ToA itself. So stop this crap with * ToA was DAoC`s ruin, it was not.
Not to mention that Mythic made theirself another competitor, Warhammer Online, which failed horribly.

To NF on Phoenix....
It would need some tweaks to make it attractive for solo players and smallscale, mounts and/or something like speed of the hunt ( runspeed between hastener and speed classes ), even if it would harm speed classes a bit.

Btw..Live server was still playable last year with 150-200 players on each side, and we had ~2k at EU primetime yesterday ( which was more than the week before)

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:21 AM by AngelRose

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:11 AM
Darby wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:59 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:48 AM
The release of World of Warcraft killed the game, thats a fact, ToA was the most successful addon that Mythic released, more than SI.
That was independently stated by MJ and MF, they have the numbers and should know it better than anybody else. DAoC lost 50% of its player to WoW and other games that released in 2004.

TOA came out when the population was its biggest, of course it would be their best expansion financially. In an MMO, you were kind of forced to buy the expansions or else be an outcast in the game. By the time people decided they didn't like TOA (several months of playing through the content), they already had the expansion. I do agree, WoW had a lot to do with it, but I think a lot of people went to WoW because they were frustrated with DAoC.

They went to WoW because they know the stand alone games and because it`s Blizzard. WoW wasn`t the only that released end of 2003 and in 2004.
Horizons, Everquest 2, Ryzom etcetc. They all had their part in the population decline in DAoC. The very last factor was ToA itself. So stop this crap with * ToA was DAoC`s ruin, it was not.
Not to mention that Mythic made theirself another competitor, Warhammer Online, which failed horribly.

To NF on Phoenix....
It would need some tweaks to make it attractive for solo players and smallscale, mounts and/or something like speed of the hunt ( runspeed between hastener and speed classes ), even if it would harm speed classes a bit.

Btw..Live server was still playable last year with 150-200 players on each side, and we had ~2k at EU primetime yesterday ( which was more than the week before)

You can deny it all you want, but many people quit because of toa. I did....so did many friends. And they never went back. It was not the only reason the population died at that time, but it was a huge factor for many. Daoc's population would have been much stronger in the following years if TOA roll out hadnt been so terrible

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:21 AM by Kampfar

Yes to NF.
No to NF.
Gonna play whatever comes.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:38 AM by Stoertebecker

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:21 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:11 AM
Darby wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:59 AM
TOA came out when the population was its biggest, of course it would be their best expansion financially. In an MMO, you were kind of forced to buy the expansions or else be an outcast in the game. By the time people decided they didn't like TOA (several months of playing through the content), they already had the expansion. I do agree, WoW had a lot to do with it, but I think a lot of people went to WoW because they were frustrated with DAoC.

They went to WoW because they know the stand alone games and because it`s Blizzard. WoW wasn`t the only that released end of 2003 and in 2004.
Horizons, Everquest 2, Ryzom etcetc. They all had their part in the population decline in DAoC. The very last factor was ToA itself. So stop this crap with * ToA was DAoC`s ruin, it was not.
Not to mention that Mythic made theirself another competitor, Warhammer Online, which failed horribly.

To NF on Phoenix....
It would need some tweaks to make it attractive for solo players and smallscale, mounts and/or something like speed of the hunt ( runspeed between hastener and speed classes ), even if it would harm speed classes a bit.

Btw..Live server was still playable last year with 150-200 players on each side, and we had ~2k at EU primetime yesterday ( which was more than the week before)

You can deny it all you want, but many people quit because of toa. I did....so did many friends. And they never went back. It was not the only reason the population died at that time, but it was a huge factor for many. Daoc's population would have been much stronger in the following years if TOA roll out hadnt been so terrible

They`d quit anyway, with our without ToA.
There`s is noone that played for 19y without a break, but i`ve seen many with a 15y anniversary figure, which means ...15y sub.

And i deny nothing. If the former producer/ceo of the originally development studio stated that ToA did not kill DAoC, mhm...i don`t know, i think thats more reasonable for me as some random player #137575 saying * Uh....ToA killed DAoC, i hate ToA and NF*. They have the numbers, you don`t. EoD.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:42 AM by Anelyn77

Pls for the love of god fix all ranged guards shooting THROUGH walls without ever moving or checking los, makes sieges annoying as hell (even impossible at times) for attackers, as you can't drop aggro till yer dead. As a healer you will always get aggro from those from spread / grp heals, and then you can't cast at all anymore until you're dead or you take the keep (which is not easy with equal nr defenders, who don't really need the help of bugged guards and very fast respawns of brigades of them).

Ty!

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:47 AM by Arthoras

NF is for me, what daoc is for me... i love and hate nf the same as i love and hate daoc. yesterdays experience was bad for me. well but i dont do my final decission because of one bad day. i test it for the rest of the week and then i will judge about it.

but only my personal feeling:
it was a mistake to open nf - now we will have the discussion what is better, and now we have the situation that not everybody will be happy about the final decission of the devs. that will cost us population, thats the only thing that is clear now.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:47 AM by Druth

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:42 AM
Pls for the love of god fix all ranged guards shooting THROUGH walls without ever moving or checking los, makes sieges annoying as hell (even impossible at times) for attackers, as you can't drop aggro till yer dead. As a healer you will always get aggro from those from spread / grp heals, and then you can't cast at all anymore until you're dead or you take the keep (which is not easy with equal nr defenders, who don't really need the help of bugged guards and very fast respawns of brigades of them).

Ty!

Not that it's not annoying, but my thane guarded one of our healers and blocked 50% or so, which was enough to get off heals.
And using light tanks/assassins to clear walls also helps a lot.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:49 AM by birrone001

I love NF and towers plus keeps system!!!

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:03 AM by Druth

Arthoras wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:47 AM
it was a mistake to open nf

Lets call it risky

Can't call it a mistake till we see the pop. after a decision is made.

And I agree, it is a risky choice, but one that can also pay off.

NF is vastly better for solo/smallman casuals, and vastly better for PvE (keeps) zergs. You can light up a twr to get smallman/solo attention, and you can port to the action nearly instantly. And without choke-points it's easy to move to action without being camped.

NF is vastly worse for assassins, because there are almost no chokepoints/forced routes, so insanely hard to camp spots and get off PA.
And also seems to me many of the negative comments come from people mainly playing sins.
Archers can still camp, as they have a wider range of operation.
Stealth groups can control an area, and will do fine, but this is not a MG frontier, so people can easier avoid them.

Not sure about 8mans, on one hand they can shadow zergs picking off stragglers, on the other hand ports means sudden inc in an area, and without SpeedWarp they can't control a sudden influx of extra inc.

NF, and especially this version with handi-friendly ramps, is a casual (visible) friendly frontier.

But... NF is not what was promised, so unless people NOT playing here gets the information and starts playing here, the server will bleed from it.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:03 AM by inoeth

Arthoras wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:47 AM
NF is for me, what daoc is for me... i love and hate nf the same as i love and hate daoc. yesterdays experience was bad for me. well but i dont do my final decission because of one bad day. i test it for the rest of the week and then i will judge about it.

but only my personal feeling:
it was a mistake to open nf - now we will have the discussion what is better, and now we have the situation that not everybody will be happy about the final decission of the devs. that will cost us population, thats the only thing that is clear now.

i think it was the right decison, even though some players will leave now..... i say get rid of all the nostalgia ppl that ruin the game for everyone else, which i believe do not even play rvr, just complaining all the time.

most important point for NF for me is that as a mid you actually see hibbies now ;D it was such a bad design that one realm was always locked out depending on which zone was favorite atm (emain most time)

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:10 AM by Tarticus74

For stealth solo it sucks it's action on bridges but get added by Others also on the bridges.

Only played an hour or so this morning after I dropped my daughter off will give another go

But looks like many camping the bridges in stealth zergs and yes I know I can swim across and all that but with such a big space as a stealth the best place for fights is docks or bridges and they rammed with others

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:15 AM by inky2019

terrible decision

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:16 AM by Isavyr

I've never played NF until this time, and have been excited to try it out. After my first night of RvR, here are my thoughts so far:

[list=]

Too large

Tower guards are over-tuned, discouraging small-group attacks.

Mob placements can be improved along main corridors where they discourage attack. (Invisible dudes in forest, Emain, for example)

I like the experience of boats, but they don't make sense mechanically. Why not just give teleportation to keeps without a chain to serve identical purpose of quick movement, and make each individual keep reason to fight for? Also, people camping at end of boat route feels cheaply designed, even if easily avoidable through early disembark.

[/list]

A lot of the same problems exist from OF; the incentives are rather poor to attack keeps and towers, and there aren't enough objectives (only towers + keeps). However, my feeling is this is a lot better for small-man, and overall better. However, without serious changes to the way NF currently behaves, I think this will split the server irreparably.

Edit: To go deeper, the design philosophy of NF feels confused. There are towers, but they aren't supportive of taking a keep beyond teleportation. For example, they aren't in range of the keep, with higher elevation than the keep walls, providing an advantage in attacking a keep. I don't like how they are teleports, just like keeps; I'd prefer they weren't teleports at all. Instead, I'd like to see them treated differently, for example, towers somehow providing a player count of everything in the area. This makes them critical to defending the keeps, as well as helping players identify when walking-RPs are around (ergo, defensive and offensive).
Bridges are interesting way-points. I don't like that stealthers congregate there, nor do I like that they serve little purpose more than a narrow road. I would like if you could capture them, via same method as domination previously. The benefit of capturing a bridge might be to a) summon hastener beside bridge b) regenerative campfires, and maybe c) anti-stealth zones (around static campfires?). This would make them worth capturing with the benefits they provide your realm.

I think ultimately we want some type of tug of war with a wide front so many battles can be fought simultaneously. However, right now, it feels like NF won't provide the tug-of-war and greater purpose to fighting beyond counting RPs.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:18 AM by Caver89

I dont get how is OF better for solos? OF is better for stealthers but not for solos.
what about small groups? im playing on alb and did you try to run through the amg in emain? its not possible, most of my OF expierence is milegate zergs.

i like NF as a whole zone better, cause you dont have these stupid milegates. the population is still big enough for action, i saw it yesterday.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:25 AM by Silenko

I love NF, think it's a good improvement to the server, nothing against OF but keeps are too small and they give biggest zerg and specially hibs the advantage to defend or attack when they plant the shrooms.

To the ones that say that it's too big: please hit M and compare map sizes with OF, it's about the same.

To all the stealthers complaining: Some of you got rr 9+ farming bottlenecks in OF and now that you actually have to fight for your rps and look for the fights like everyone else you complain.

To the ones saying that they will leave if they keep NF: this is a test, I suppose they will make a poll after it and we'll see.

I like NF more than OF and I wish they keep the change, at the end OF is boring and PvP action / keep taking is always the same.

I'm not leaving if they don't keep the frontiers I like, I think the devs are doing overall a good job.

My vote is keeping new frontiers but obviously with such a big change not everyone will be happy.

Hopefully OF whiners will leave if the change to NF is permanent, they won't be missed and players that didn't play Phoenix because it was OF will come to play.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:33 AM by classicmusic

I do not like NF , i quit the server . Wasted time to level and template.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:43 AM by Siouxsie

teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:25 AM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:54 AM
Too many people associate NF with ToA and refuse to give NF a chance because of it.

NF and ToA have nothing to do with each other, they just came out at the same time. Actually go into this test with an open mind if you care about the server and not just your personal enjoyment. If you don't like it at the end of the week, so be it, but a lot of people I'm seeing in game and on here hate it with no reasons given other than it's when they left the original game.

There was almost a year of TOA + OF, which was some of the most fun I've had in a game.

NF helped a lot of people make the decision to go WoW.

NF helped me go to WoW. I ditched DAoC for WoW in 2004 after NF came out and I tried it a few months.
But then, I lost a huge chunk of my life and time wasted on WoW. F WoW

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:46 AM by CronU

I guess this thread shows, who can arrange situations and who can not.
90% of the OF fanatics said they would leave the server if NF stays.
Close to everyone who said NF is better then OF, which imo is the truth. Are staying and played for the past months of bad OF design.
So to all those 'leaving-caller' OF fanatics. Maybe, just maybe... give this week an every day test... and see if you really 'hate NF so much'.
Because we, that are thinking NF is better then OF. Are playing on this poor designed maps for months now. And did any of us said 'we want NF or we leave'?
I dont think so.

greetz,
Clary

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:47 AM by warblade

I dont like NF.

If i want to play NF i might as well play on live

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:49 AM by labova

I love the OF maps and the nostalgia of it, but rationally the keeps are very poorly designed, and keep warfare is basically non-existant.

NF remedies this, but for this server it feels very large. It is not an easy decision, and it clearly divides the playerbase.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:52 AM by Druth

Wish people who hate NF would actually post why, and what their playstyle (solo visi/stealth, smallman, 8man, zerg, PvE, stealth group etc...) is.

Just saying you hate (or love) something is worth next to zero in regards to feedback.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:34 AM by kvothe

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:52 AM
Wish people who hate NF would actually post why, and what their playstyle (solo visi/stealth, smallman, 8man, zerg, PvE, stealth group etc...) is.

Just saying you hate (or love) something is worth next to zero in regards to feedback.

OF I know my static hot spots (small man solo), log in and get some action (usually 1h of gameplay)
NF I need to check the map where I might find some action (might be gone when I arrive might be just a fg who knows) so I spend 30 min searching fights running into fg.
NF = log out

Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:37 AM by inoeth

kvothe wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:34 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:52 AM
Wish people who hate NF would actually post why, and what their playstyle (solo visi/stealth, smallman, 8man, zerg, PvE, stealth group etc...) is.

Just saying you hate (or love) something is worth next to zero in regards to feedback.

OF I know my static hot spots (small man solo), log in and get some action (usually 1h of gameplay)
NF I need to check the map where I might find some action (might be gone when I arrive might be just a fg who knows) so I spend 30 min searching fights running into fg.
NF = log out

if that was true, how did i manage to do about 100k yesterday?

Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:39 AM by kvothe

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:37 AM
kvothe wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:34 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:52 AM
Wish people who hate NF would actually post why, and what their playstyle (solo visi/stealth, smallman, 8man, zerg, PvE, stealth group etc...) is.

Just saying you hate (or love) something is worth next to zero in regards to feedback.

OF I know my static hot spots (small man solo), log in and get some action (usually 1h of gameplay)
NF I need to check the map where I might find some action (might be gone when I arrive might be just a fg who knows) so I spend 30 min searching fights running into fg.
NF = log out

if that was true, how did i manage to do about 100k yesterday?

You did not play for 1h obviously?

Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:01 AM by Freedomcall

I can't help thinking hybrid of OF and NF would be so cool actually^^
I kinda started to dislike watchtowers and boat system. watchtowers are rather too difficult to take, and gets worse when those are placed right next to a keep. I personally think WT should be easier to take, like being able to take within a single grp or so.
And as one of the guys above has said, the concept of boat system itself seems a bit weird. You take towers and keeps to cut TP chains, but you can still embark boats to another realm? hm... I know boats are to help players move faster, but then why dont you enable players to port? I mean, how about enabling everyone/anytime to port to EV watchtowers instead? idk I didnt think thoroughly about it but still, this could be one of the ways to make EV something like OF emain with larger map and less choke point. I looked around EV today and EV seemed to have a nice terrain for good fights. But couldnt find much action there.
I think Ppl who wants instant inc but hate mg choke point will be happy with this change. And also it will be one of the ways to make ppl think NF isn't that large, cuz if you start from EV, it feels almost like you are starting from OF pk.
Just my vague thought for now^^ but i think this is one of the options that can be considered.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:14 AM by Druth

kvothe wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:34 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:52 AM
Wish people who hate NF would actually post why, and what their playstyle (solo visi/stealth, smallman, 8man, zerg, PvE, stealth group etc...) is.

Just saying you hate (or love) something is worth next to zero in regards to feedback.

OF I know my static hot spots (small man solo), log in and get some action (usually 1h of gameplay)
NF I need to check the map where I might find some action (might be gone when I arrive might be just a fg who knows) so I spend 30 min searching fights running into fg.
NF = log out

Okay, guess I had the opposite experience. I usually get rolled fast in OF by MG campers, or fg's.

Maybe your experience from OF is a result of knowledge of where to run, and you just need to relearn that in NF?
The first hour for me yesterday felt like someone had blindfolded me and spun me around, and asked me to pin the tail.
But once the initial confusion settled I found many fun fights, and more pure solo fights (well, someone killed me after fights were done... but till then it was solo) than I found lately in OF.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:33 AM by Stoertebecker

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:03 AM
Arthoras wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:47 AM
it was a mistake to open nf

NF is vastly worse for assassins, because there are almost no chokepoints/forced routes, so insanely hard to camp spots and get off PA.

There are enough chokepoints, from my experience on live last year.
The outer keeps, beno, bled and dc, the centerkeeps and the docks. Assassins can climb walls, remember?

i know some sins that made some million rp`s this way, and i think we will see that really soon.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:39 AM by lurker

Enjoyed NF last night.

Few issues with the guards that will never drop aggro / chase into towers / etc.
But other than that. Was great.

I play mostly small man and its going to take a while to feel out where the best place to get fights / choke points are... but by and large i think its a positive for the server.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:54 AM by canzian

When 600 player left because hate NF ( me)... tell me again if u like it

Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:57 AM by sheparel

NF stands for No Fun

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:01 AM by crlmx

https://www.strawpoll.me/18146883

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:03 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

I hate it, for 8 man its okay but for solo visible it's just the worst. PLEASE don't put this through permanently it's very bad for solo. Zerging is worse than ever, can't get a clean 1 v 1 like I could in OF. Scrap it, I can't imagine another day of this let alone a entire week! Old frontiers is the way to go big time, this shouldn't last any longer than it already has it sucks. At least in Old Frontiers I would die 20 seconds after running out from APK. It takes 5 minutes to run around Beno to get hastener again if you lose it, it's awful. I want to log out and do something else it's just not what I thought I was getting into when I started playing here. You guys need to stick to the classic vision with QOL that's why people like this server, not random changes that are just sprung on us that change everything dramatically and ruin the fun. Your time goes into making the server but we spend time playing and you gotta keep things consistent. Many of us like the classic vision with QOL, so why change it to this NF crap? It was fun for 5 minutes but the charm is now gone. OF still has a charm to it, bring it back.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:09 AM by Dume

Hello,

I hate too NF, its the reason why i left live server in the past...

I was on Phoenix because of OF...

I love to play on OF, please bring me back my OF

I will stop phoenix if NF stays permanently...

I wasted my time to level and template for this NF bullshit...

Im so frustated,

If i wanted to play on NF, i would go on live server....

Phoenix OF was magic for me... Now its HELL...

Regards

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:11 AM by Freakzilla

Sweet!! I loved NF. Time to load the game back up, and get ready for the fun!!!

PS. I'm looking for a guild who isn't a bunch of 8 mam only pricks, and loves to pve and zerg.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:31 AM by LordK

Many of you are too much drama there is enough room for Zerg, 8vs8 and 1vs1

I Love NF.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:34 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

The whole appeal of this server was a classic setting with QOL, that is why people quit Uthgard cuz they wanted to play here with a nice classic setting with QOL. This is something else entirely.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:43 AM by Silenko

People that wants NF giving reasons as to why, but I don't see reasons for OF, only whining and people speaking about solo kills...

This is not a 1vs1 game, do we have to remind u that after 20 years?

DaoC was never a 1vs1 game, it never was and it never will be.

And please, it really seems that there is one person creating accounts to cry about how he will leave if OF don't come back permanently after the test.

Just leave , really. Players like that are not needed anywhere.

And for the ones that say "This is not what was promised": This is a custom server, changes are made and will be done that reflect on feedback.

OF is old for a reason and it was revamped for a reason.

NF isn't bigger and isn't going to kill anybody's playtime, it's an improvement for everyone and every play style, after some tweaks.

Get over it.

And if the way you deal with changes is leaving the server, give away all your stuff, delete your characters and close the door when you leave.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:46 AM by vadox

NF is not going to work when you have 500-600 population. Every free shard so far forgets the most important thing - population controls changes, not other way around.
This server evolves like guppies in my fish tank. You turn around and there are 100 new fry swimming around. What I did at the end is take the whole mess of them to the store or flush them down the toilet.
Please stop introducing new things every week. No free DAoC shard yet had so much 'sh**' thrown at players with such a rapid pace. This is not BETA anymore. Please put this server back to normal, stable mode.
And, staff, now you have a mess on your hands - some people wills say "I quit if OF is not back", some will say the opposite. Many in my guild, at least, quit live long time ago because of NF and TOA, pretty sure many others are thinking the same.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:47 AM by Druth

Silenko wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:43 AM
People that wants NF giving reasons as to why, but I don't see reasons for OF, only whining and people speaking about solo kills...

This is not a 1vs1 game, do we have to remind u that after 20 years?

DaoC was never a 1vs1 game, it never was and it never will be.

And please, it really seems that there is one person creating accounts to cry about how he will leave if OF don't come back permanently after the test.

Just leave , really. Players like that are not needed anywhere.

And for the ones that say "This is not what was promised": This is a custom server, changes are made and will be done that reflect on feedback.

OF is old for a reason and it was revamped for a reason.

NF isn't bigger and isn't going to kill anybody's playtime, it's an improvement for everyone and every play style, after some tweaks.

Get over it.

And if the way you deal with changes is leaving the server, give away all your stuff, delete your characters and close the door when you leave.

Think I agree with the essence, but not the presentation...

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:56 AM by Lev

NF = Speed 6 or die of boredom

I did not play NF for years, last time on Uth1. but the new mechanics (towers, keeps, teleports, boats) are easy to learn. they are not better than OF mechanics, but they would be alright even permanently. but the size of the maps: everything is just too big. even if only one one realm's NF map were accessible (e.g. hib zones), it would be too spread out.

I still like the event, knowing it's going to last one week only. :p
IMO this could be an one week event every 3 months or so.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:58 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

Silenko wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:43 AM
People that wants NF giving reasons as to why, but I don't see reasons for OF, only whining and people speaking about solo kills...

This is not a 1vs1 game, do we have to remind u that after 20 years?

DaoC was never a 1vs1 game, it never was and it never will be.

And please, it really seems that there is one person creating accounts to cry about how he will leave if OF don't come back permanently after the test.

Just leave , really. Players like that are not needed anywhere.

And for the ones that say "This is not what was promised": This is a custom server, changes are made and will be done that reflect on feedback.

OF is old for a reason and it was revamped for a reason.

NF isn't bigger and isn't going to kill anybody's playtime, it's an improvement for everyone and every play style, after some tweaks.

Get over it.

And if the way you deal with changes is leaving the server, give away all your stuff, delete your characters and close the door when you leave.

This is the same mentality that the Uthgard hold outs had and look what happened there. Pushing people away will make this server dead as disco. Better to stick to a classic vision rather than make wild changes that a ton of people already do not like.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:01 AM by Runental

Dume wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:09 AM
Hello,

I hate too NF, its the reason why i left live server in the past...

I was on Phoenix because of OF...

I love to play on OF, please bring me back my OF

I will stop phoenix if NF stays permanently...

I wasted my time to level and template for this NF bullshit...

Im so frustated,

If i wanted to play on NF, i would go on live server....

Phoenix OF was magic for me... Now its HELL...

Regards

/rofl

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:05 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

He has some good points, rofl at yourself.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:11 AM by inoeth

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:05 AM
He has some good points, rofl at yourself.

i dont see any good point just whining OF is bad, not stating why LOL

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:11 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

It makes him unhappy is that not a valid reason? It makes me unhappy too and I will gladly whine about it, it sucks. If you don't think he gives enough reasons read mine. This was supposed to be a classic server with QOL, the charm is gone with NF and it's more zergy than ever. That might appeal to live players who flocked here but to og classic daoc peeps it's terrible. They had a good thing going with OF with NF ra's to make things balanced, why take 10 steps backwards when they had a good thing going?

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:15 AM by Tokajer

Yay NF!

Stop crying!

The main "Problem" as schaf said is that alot is buggy with the new client and OF.

OF terrain is terrible for LoS (also keeps)
OF Dungeons where nice (also not in anymore )
OF Runways are much longer than in NF (boats)

NF has beautiful keeps and towers.
NF has the same map size (exept northsea and EV) so that isnt an argument.
NF brings more dynamic in keep fights and RVR. you can open a tower and see what is happen.

all kind of setup works here...

1vs1
smallmen
8vs8
zerg

The bad thing on NF was TOA. in my opinion the best setup was the "classic server" Salisbury (EU) it was a lot of fun.

I dont get your point: the if its OF i will quit playing. Its DAoC most of you ran Emain to AMG and fight there. you can do that also in NF just sit into a boat and meet in front of DC.....

suggestions:
- faster boats
- upgrade Towers (also size)
- destroyable towers and Keepwalls.

as always... go DEV's you make a great job!

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:17 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

Oh yeah I wonder how well that 1 v 1 is gonna go when you can't even get to the boat without getting zerged, oh but your idea is to boat to DC to fight 1 v 1 where the zerging is even worse? Are you serious? Not to mention that everything about NF is just another massive timesink, it takes way too long to get around. We left Uthgard because of bs time sinks. They had the QOL down with this server and OF was nice, this is not nice tho. OF was perfectly imperfect but many of us still loved it, I have nothing but hate for NF, it looks pretty and stuff but the charm wears off after 5 minutes and you are just left wishing it was OF again.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:20 AM by inoeth

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:11 AM
It makes him unhappy is that not a valid reason? It makes me unhappy too and I will gladly whine about it, it sucks. If you don't think he gives enough reasons read mine. This was supposed to be a classic server with QOL, the charm is gone with NF and it's more zergy than ever. That might appeal to live players who flocked here but to og classic daoc peeps it's terrible. They had a good thing going with OF with NF ra's to make things balanced, why take 10 steps backwards when they had a good thing going?

the thing is it was not balanced at all OF has major flaws which NF does not have.
i played more OF than NF since im playing freeshards for about 10 years now and i can see that the nostalgia is strong in you guys but believe me OF sucks when you play it a longer time, NF is soch much better in every single point.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:22 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

I love OF, screw nf... one night of it already made me want to just play other stuff, it's so bad. I am just gonna leave it at that cuz I have made my points and I know it's either a hard line stance one way or the other and I don't feel like arguing with people who will never agree with me. I just really hope the devs make the right decision here and remember why people came here.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:25 AM by inoeth

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:22 AM
I love OF, screw nf... one night of it already made me want to just play other stuff, it's so bad. I am just gonna leave it at that cuz I have made my points and I know it's either a hard line stance one way or the other and I don't feel like arguing with people who will never agree with you. I just really hope the devs make the right decision here and remember why people came here.

your only point is "i hate nf" thats not really a "point"

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:37 AM by relvinian

If they do put nf in, at some point you would need to close areas or find other ways to make the huge maps smaller.

Maybe like a destruction closed areas due to the wars.

Smaller areas more focused pvp.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:51 AM by Inkwell84

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:11 AM
Darby wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:59 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:48 AM
The release of World of Warcraft killed the game, thats a fact, ToA was the most successful addon that Mythic released, more than SI.
That was independently stated by MJ and MF, they have the numbers and should know it better than anybody else. DAoC lost 50% of its player to WoW and other games that released in 2004.

TOA came out when the population was its biggest, of course it would be their best expansion financially. In an MMO, you were kind of forced to buy the expansions or else be an outcast in the game. By the time people decided they didn't like TOA (several months of playing through the content), they already had the expansion. I do agree, WoW had a lot to do with it, but I think a lot of people went to WoW because they were frustrated with DAoC.

They went to WoW because they know the stand alone games and because it`s Blizzard. WoW wasn`t the only that released end of 2003 and in 2004.
Horizons, Everquest 2, Ryzom etcetc. They all had their part in the population decline in DAoC. The very last factor was ToA itself. So stop this crap with * ToA was DAoC`s ruin, it was not.
Not to mention that Mythic made theirself another competitor, Warhammer Online, which failed horribly.

To NF on Phoenix....
It would need some tweaks to make it attractive for solo players and smallscale, mounts and/or something like speed of the hunt ( runspeed between hastener and speed classes ), even if it would harm speed classes a bit.

Btw..Live server was still playable last year with 150-200 players on each side, and we had ~2k at EU primetime yesterday ( which was more than the week before)

I think many players, myself included, only ever left daoc because of ToA. It causes pve burnout for a rvr game.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:52 AM by inoeth

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:37 AM
If they do put nf in, at some point you would need to close areas or find other ways to make the huge maps smaller.

Maybe like a destruction closed areas due to the wars.

Smaller areas more focused pvp.

nf is not bigger than of ..... what is this stupid rumor?

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:52 AM by Druth

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:37 AM
If they do put nf in, at some point you would need to close areas or find other ways to make the huge maps smaller.

Maybe like a destruction closed areas due to the wars.

Smaller areas more focused pvp.

I am not the first to try to make you understand that there are no "huge" zones in NF, they are the same size as OF.
The difference here is that action spreads out more.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:03 PM by labova

I don't envy the devs. People will be upset no matter what choice they take. I like the siege warfare in NF, and I dont miss the milegates. However, the maps feel strange and foreign to me, but that might just be nostalgia.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:12 PM by hyshash

Most ppl think that nf is larger then of because they only roam emain mmg<->amg and sometimes in odins.
Also the of maps are made in a way, so they seem to be way smaller since you roam on the main roads like 90% of the time because mobs are placed so badly you cant realy leave the main roads without taking aggro of camps.
Actually i think the only ppl who rly want of are mids and albs who enjoy roaming between mmg and amg the whole day and having zerg standoffs at mg's with no1 dieing on eigther side for minutes.
Everyone else and it doesnt rly matter if zerger, 8man, smallman, or solo rly should have a better time in nf after getting to know the places where you can find suitable action, because nf supports every single playstyle in a great way. And btw hibs should be jumping in joy because of better port possiblities.

Had a blast roaming with a 8man yesterday, it actually felt like real daoc for the first time in weeks. Constant incs (way more then the last weeks in of) but with enough space to evade zergs while being in the same zone. And allways the possiblitys to attack bridges and kite what ever came over em. Fast action via Ports and allways an eye on the warmap to see if ports will close or where the zerg roams atm. It felt way more "tactical" then anything i expierenced in of.
I would be happy if they could implement the icons for small/middle/large battles happening btw.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:14 PM by Hartan

If i want to play NF I switch to live!

Nothing more or less!

Vote for OF!

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:16 PM by Anelyn77

Just putting it out there, NF is not bigger than OF, it's just more open space with way less choke points (if any).

If you base your opinion on NF on the very first day of testing NF where everyone obviously wanted to go where the action was - Alb zerg + Hib zerg + Mid zerg and take / defend towers & keeps, then I highly advice you to reconsider, because this is now how it will be.

Nothing will stop soloers / stealthers / small men / 8m to roam around the areas where the zerg vs zerg vs keep takes place on the outer perimeter (no zerg sieging or defending during a siege will ever leave to chase a small men or 8m that pops at edge of visibility). You can pick off peeps that died in the fight and run back (on land or by boat) to reinforce, there's still bridges, towers etc. where you can jump peeps and get your fights / rps.

Just saying that a day 1 reaction / over-reaction ain't realistic, give it time, am sure 3-4 days into the event things will shape out better.

Obviously if you hate NF because it's NF, then there's that

/Bnotashamed

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:24 PM by Numatic

I hate OF because of the emain dry humping and choke points. But NF is not going to work here with a lower pop. It sucks because I prefer NF but with a lower pop it spreads everything out too much. I have always said the frontiers are too large to begin with. But at least in OF you could find fights. Now this is coming from a solo/duo perspective. If we still had a 3k+ pop it would be great. Even roaming you could find fights. The point is to try and stay alive long enough to get in a fight or two before you die. But in NF, if you go a little out of the way, between boat rides and roaming, it can take me 20+ mins to find a fight that doesnt involve a fg or zerg. Love the keep fights but man, I really hate to say that OF might be better for the server health. Which makes me want to vomit a little. I really wanted NF but I dont think it will be a good thing here. The only time it might somewhat be fun is peak pop but then you have another 20 hours of bad RvR action.

But I will wait and see till the end how it pans out. Maybe it will change, who knows.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:25 PM by lannchilds

I enjoy it. (as a stealther)

Stealth fights are better, small man fights are better. There is more to do in regards of choosing where to fight and who to fight. OF was an assjam fest, mile gates are a joke sometimes. Running/stealthing through 3 zones to find action in OF isn't fun game play (I don't enjoy sitting on a MG or camping PK's.) I love that I can as a small guild claim towers, take towers etc. I hope NF stays. Having lots of fun.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:29 PM by Sepplord

i haven't read the whole thread (yet), just giving my 2cents:

i am a nostalgia player, i am not sure if NF is better or worse than OF but i know that my personal playtime in NF was VERY short. I was already almost done with DAoC due to TOA so i might have not given NF a huge chance, since i would have probably quit in OF too.

The thing is, regardless of better or worse....i am not playing this game to learn it new every few weeks. If i wanted to learn a new style of gameplay / travelling routes / etc... i would do so in one of the many many up2date games that are available and not on a freeshard of a 20year old game that gets reinvented.

I will give NF a chance, although it surely doesn't motivate me to log in more than before and my time this week is pretty limited anyways. I am not a person to quit suddenly without trying, but the amount of changes that constantly change how the game is played on phoenix is becoming a bit tiring for me personally. It might keep people that play 50-100hours every week entertained for longer, but i don't need huge changes in the pace they have been coming.

Tl;DR: I play daoc for nostalgia. Adapting is fine and dandy, but i personally don't play this game to relearn/adapt my gamestyle every few weeks. I can do that in plenty of much more modern and catering games than DAoC.

EDIT: towers / destructible Keeps (i know them from thidranki/Molvik freeshards) are better than OF-keeps. Even i have to admit. Finding a way to put them into OF would be awesome, but so far it seems that is not possible/feasible

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:36 PM by Siouxsie

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:29 PM
i haven't read the whole thread (yet), just giving my 2cents:

i am a nostalgia player, i am not sure if NF is better or worse than OF but i know that my personal playtime in NF was VERY short. I was already almost done with DAoC due to TOA so i might have not given NF a huge chance, since i would have probably quit in OF too.

The thing is, regardless of better or worse....i am not playing this game to learn it new every few weeks. If i wanted to learn a new style of gameplay / travelling routes / etc... i would do so in one of the many many up2date games that are available and not on a freeshard of a 20year old game that gets reinvented.

I will give NF a chance, although it surely doesn't motivate me to log in more than before and my time this week is pretty limited anyways. I am not a person to quit suddenly without trying, but the amount of changes that constantly change how the game is played on phoenix is becoming a bit tiring for me personally. It might keep people that play 50-100hours every week entertained for longer, but i don't need huge changes in the pace they have been coming.

Tl;DR: I play daoc for nostalgia. Adapting is fine and dandy, but i personally don't play this game to relearn/adapt my gamestyle every few weeks. I can do that in plenty of much more modern and catering games than DAoC.

+1

This is my experience as well!

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:38 PM by Sepplord

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:52 AM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:37 AM
If they do put nf in, at some point you would need to close areas or find other ways to make the huge maps smaller.

Maybe like a destruction closed areas due to the wars.

Smaller areas more focused pvp.

I am not the first to try to make you understand that there are no "huge" zones in NF, they are the same size as OF.
The difference here is that action spreads out more.

As much as i agree with almost all your comments and the way you argue with logic....imo this seems more like nitpicking.
Does it matter how the actual size of maps compare to each other, when the difference in median player-density is very different?

If both maps are similar sze, but in one setup the usual gameplay utilizes 20% of the size and in the other setup utilizes 80% then what he said could still be true (and technically, if we are arguing semantics anyways, he didn't even compare OF to NF, he just made a statement regarding NF maps being huge)

Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:54 PM by Durandal

Okay...It is very obvious that there is a huge split. This is something to be expected. Reading through the thread it is apparent that server population will take a hit. You are starting to see population levels dip sub 1000 at primetime, and I understand why switching things up is seen to have a positive effect. During the test there will be good action, but the real results are once everything settles and people become used to the new way things are done.

OF and NF are polar opposites. There is absolutely nothing similar between these two systems. They contrast greatly, but I see it like ying and yang. I actually think that this issue can be mitigated by merging the best of two systems. We've seen this when the old frontier keep system was overlaid with the new frontier portal system, which had great results. I've played DAoC for a significant time through both maps, through all upgrades.

The best way to go about this, where you will cater to all players is not so simple, but I think it will be effective and could be really fun...

Planetside 1 and 2 has a continent locking system, this serves the purpose to keep the scenery and gameplay changing. Esamir is very flat and open where as Amerish has lots of chokepoints and valleys. Once a victory condition is met, the winning faction is announced, and the spawn portal on the entire continent cease to function and the next continent is unlocked. In these games, continent switching is simple and the gameplay doesn't change too much between them, so you'll see them flip a few times per day. In DAoC, this is definitely not the case. They should not switch very often.

Victory conditions for OF and NF have to be different, as each map has drastic gameplay changes so it would not make sense to have the same victory condition for both.

Now these are just suggestions and may not be the best victory conditions possible, but a quick brainstorm that I have come up with.

OF Victory Condition: Realm holds 12 keeps, one relic from each realm, and has scored 10000+ kills, 300 solo kills.

NF Victory Condition: Realm holds all their keeps, has total control over EV, KM, and all it's towers, and a single enemy supply keep(beno,bled,crau), has scored 10000+ kills, 300 solo kills.

Like I said, the right conditions may be different, and could be adjusted. The winning realm could get some kind of bonus applied, and could even be given every single keep in the entire frontier map for the next time it is activated....Just some ideas, but I believe that both frontiers can be used with the right system in place.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 1:01 PM by florin

I played EU prime time and NA prime time.

Extremely different experience

Lively keep takes with zergs and 8 mans vs a couple alb groups against the horde.

One failed tower siege, one hib group camping beno docks, several stealthers on the bridges and too long between fights.

I understand the appeal of NF to a high pop time zone and perhaps as testing goes on we get better ideas of common areas to fight (nf is completely new to some), but during low pop - it feels even more dead than emain.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 1:48 PM by Leandrys

NF definitively better than OF, a lot, and should have been here day 1, OF was just a big mistake pushed by a few people who clearly biased the poll...

But... Yeah, but, problem is OF did its job and Phoenix's population now is really low cause of that, and i do not believe people will come back for NF now they're gone. Is it too late to switch to NF ? While i really enjoy it, i might be very close from thinkig it is.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 1:55 PM by Tarticus74

I take it all back made 37k in 2 hrs this morning grouped with a couple of mates who I know years....

And yes I was grouped for the first time in ages lol

For small man it's decent even though I was on a stealth but for solo I think it will be hard to solo and do well

Tue 11 Jun 2019 1:59 PM by Delegator

As already stated, I am in the "I came here for the classic DAOC, not for NF" camp. And I do understand the difference between NF and TOA.

That said, RVR in OF is far from perfect. Of late it has been PVDoor with 100+ member zergs steamrolling while the other realm hides (Pilzpower leading Hib BGs, GrumpyButt or Oadin leading Mids, etc.). Keep defense is laughably impossible because of all the issues like pets going through walls, line of sight for defenders, inability to avoid TWF, and more.

I'd have much preferred that issues like the above get fixed. As I said earlier I didn't come here to see a new came every couple of weeks. I don't have a desire to spend time learning NF -- my initial jump in felt like it was going to be way too much work for a one-week test. I don't play this game to work.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:03 PM by cere2

Well,
I will definitely be coming back to give NF a try.
I hated OF and honestly quit because of MG's. Either pray 6 stealther's aren't camping it and try to get past, or wait for a FG and hope they give a rats if you get attacked.
And since I mostly play Hib it took way too long to get back to action, which was only in emain.
Didn't try even after they introduced porting as I still didn't want to just have action in one zone...constantly.
I hope people give NF a chance. I will be giving it a shot tonight.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:14 PM by Druth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:38 PM
As much as i agree with almost all your comments and the way you argue with logic....imo this seems more like nitpicking.
Does it matter how the actual size of maps compare to each other, when the difference in median player-density is very different?

If both maps are similar sze, but in one setup the usual gameplay utilizes 20% of the size and in the other setup utilizes 80% then what he said could still be true (and technically, if we are arguing semantics anyways, he didn't even compare OF to NF, he just made a statement regarding NF maps being huge)

Stating that something is huge/small/dark/heavy/etc..., is always in comparison to something else, a 50 kg dog can be heavy and yet a 50 ton ship can be light. Stating something is 100feet is not. We might not say what we compare things to, but we always have something in mind.
And we can assume the comparison made is with OF, since that is what most compare in this discussion.

If we want to discuss NF, then we can say that the layout utilizes to much of said space, giving us a "feeling" of a huge map (compared to OF).

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:15 PM by AngelRose

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:38 AM
AngelRose wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:21 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:11 AM
They went to WoW because they know the stand alone games and because it`s Blizzard. WoW wasn`t the only that released end of 2003 and in 2004.
Horizons, Everquest 2, Ryzom etcetc. They all had their part in the population decline in DAoC. The very last factor was ToA itself. So stop this crap with * ToA was DAoC`s ruin, it was not.
Not to mention that Mythic made theirself another competitor, Warhammer Online, which failed horribly.

To NF on Phoenix....
It would need some tweaks to make it attractive for solo players and smallscale, mounts and/or something like speed of the hunt ( runspeed between hastener and speed classes ), even if it would harm speed classes a bit.

Btw..Live server was still playable last year with 150-200 players on each side, and we had ~2k at EU primetime yesterday ( which was more than the week before)

You can deny it all you want, but many people quit because of toa. I did....so did many friends. And they never went back. It was not the only reason the population died at that time, but it was a huge factor for many. Daoc's population would have been much stronger in the following years if TOA roll out hadnt been so terrible

They`d quit anyway, with our without ToA.
There`s is noone that played for 19y without a break, but i`ve seen many with a 15y anniversary figure, which means ...15y sub.

And i deny nothing. If the former producer/ceo of the originally development studio stated that ToA did not kill DAoC, mhm...i don`t know, i think thats more reasonable for me as some random player #137575 saying * Uh....ToA killed DAoC, i hate ToA and NF*. They have the numbers, you don`t. EoD.

Nothing more annoying then someone acting like you. You make pronouncements about my friends, when you have NO idea. What an arrogant piece of shit. And, you are completely wrong. Try to get this through your stupid skull. They quit because of TOA. Would they have taken breaks? Maybe, but we will never know because they hated toa and left. And that was my point. TOA caused a lot of people to quit, that hurt the population, and many never came back.

Also, yeah....there is NO reason the producer/CEO would lie to cover up their own debacle. Do you believe every lie corporations tell you?

jfc

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:19 PM by easytoremember

Inkwell84 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:34 AM
NF keep in OF is the best, but pretty sure they can’t do that. I do wish they’d find a way to make relics meaningful.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:22 PM by Salidry

NF is much more about personal action/initiative and reaction.
As a solo or smallman or group you can pull towers or even keeps to create your own actions. if you have a bit larger numbers with you you can already think about opening ports, especially when population is a bit lower. There is the so called classical triangle of RPs when for example Hib has tp for Nged, Alb for DaBehn and Mid for Bolg. The action is much more concentrated and suits solo, smallman and groups. Works on Mid and Alb side also obviously. On Ywain or french servers when we had this triple port situation, people didn´t break the ports on purpose because it created good action for everybody even when population was low.
Of course all this asks for a bit of initiative which can be interprated as negative.
Reaction because you have to look at the warmap and figure out which keep the zerg is gonna hit next, where the groups are gonna roam or where the solos are depending on which ports are open, which keeps or towers are on fire etc. It requires a bit of adaptation and i understand people being new to NF are a bit lost with this.

Old Frontiers is much more static, you just suffer the situation, you have no impact on it. Want 8v8 ? Go breifine. Want Zerg ? Go emain. You blocked at the gate ? Cool, not much to do except sos through. Its always the same.

All in all i find NF waaaaay better. I would still continue to play on OF however. As someone else said in this post the proNF players seem to be much more open and flexible ( which is at the end why they like NF more ).

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:30 PM by Sepplord

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:14 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:38 PM
As much as i agree with almost all your comments and the way you argue with logic....imo this seems more like nitpicking.
Does it matter how the actual size of maps compare to each other, when the difference in median player-density is very different?

If both maps are similar sze, but in one setup the usual gameplay utilizes 20% of the size and in the other setup utilizes 80% then what he said could still be true (and technically, if we are arguing semantics anyways, he didn't even compare OF to NF, he just made a statement regarding NF maps being huge)

Stating that something is huge/small/dark/heavy/etc..., is always in comparison to something else, a 50 kg dog can be heavy and yet a 50 ton ship can be light. Stating something is 100feet is not. We might not say what we compare things to, but we always have something in mind.
And we can assume the comparison made is with OF, since that is what most compare in this discussion.

If we want to discuss NF, then we can say that the layout utilizes to much of said space, giving us a "feeling" of a huge map (compared to OF).

The comparison factor could simply be the current and expected population. The NF-Maps are huge, for the same population that OF maps are small for. Because the spread-factor changes the feel of the mapsizes. If a 50kg dog can be heavy but a 50tonne ship can be light...then NF-Maps can be huge while OF-Maps are small, despite them being the same size. That argument actually proves my point

But this really is nitpicking semantics instead of adressing the point made.
His point is a valid concern and has nothing to do with how different or equal the maps are in units²

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:33 PM by Bumbles

I find it funny how all the pro OF players stamp their feet and proclaim they won't play anymore if NF goes live. Acting like children who didn't get a toy. I love NF and prefer it by far to OF but if they decided to keep OF I would continue doing what I do in OF because I love the GAME, not the maps/zone. And it seems by far that all the people saying they hate NF are stealthers who now have to work for kills instead of having them hand fed via APK/MPK.

And as Salidry stated above, in NF YOU can create your own action. Something that could never be done in OF. But let the chips fall as they may, we will see. At least the people who quit will have an excuse, similar to how ToA caused the game to fail which I find laughable. I loved ToA because I was ready to work harder to make my toons better, and I was a solo player even back then. The ones who quit simply didn't want to compete.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:37 PM by snayan17

Not a fan NF is to big for the server. Had enough after a few runs. Ready for OF to come back.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:38 PM by Stoertebecker

Inkwell84 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:51 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:11 AM
Darby wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:59 AM
TOA came out when the population was its biggest, of course it would be their best expansion financially. In an MMO, you were kind of forced to buy the expansions or else be an outcast in the game. By the time people decided they didn't like TOA (several months of playing through the content), they already had the expansion. I do agree, WoW had a lot to do with it, but I think a lot of people went to WoW because they were frustrated with DAoC.

They went to WoW because they know the stand alone games and because it`s Blizzard. WoW wasn`t the only that released end of 2003 and in 2004.
Horizons, Everquest 2, Ryzom etcetc. They all had their part in the population decline in DAoC. The very last factor was ToA itself. So stop this crap with * ToA was DAoC`s ruin, it was not.
Not to mention that Mythic made theirself another competitor, Warhammer Online, which failed horribly.

To NF on Phoenix....
It would need some tweaks to make it attractive for solo players and smallscale, mounts and/or something like speed of the hunt ( runspeed between hastener and speed classes ), even if it would harm speed classes a bit.

Btw..Live server was still playable last year with 150-200 players on each side, and we had ~2k at EU primetime yesterday ( which was more than the week before)

I think many players, myself included, only ever left daoc because of ToA. It causes pve burnout for a rvr game.

And they jumped over to WoW and got what....?
Raids where you`ve must been available for each raid, for several hours. If you were missing one you were out. Raidloot point systems.
Retemplating with each addon...etcetc.
That was ok and never caused a burnout? But ToA was the devil....

Btw, who called DAoC a RvR game back in those days? The average rvr participation across all servers was between 15 and 18%, no matter how many players played on each server. It was ~25% on Uthgard 2, and i don`t think that we have much more here on Phoenix. Exception was the live server with approx 50% last year.
I would call that a minority. The majority of players is sitting in pve...in a so called rvr game.

Last but not least, we`re going to get NF here...maybe, not ToA.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:40 PM by inoeth

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:15 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:38 AM
AngelRose wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:21 AM
You can deny it all you want, but many people quit because of toa. I did....so did many friends. And they never went back. It was not the only reason the population died at that time, but it was a huge factor for many. Daoc's population would have been much stronger in the following years if TOA roll out hadnt been so terrible

They`d quit anyway, with our without ToA.
There`s is noone that played for 19y without a break, but i`ve seen many with a 15y anniversary figure, which means ...15y sub.

And i deny nothing. If the former producer/ceo of the originally development studio stated that ToA did not kill DAoC, mhm...i don`t know, i think thats more reasonable for me as some random player #137575 saying * Uh....ToA killed DAoC, i hate ToA and NF*. They have the numbers, you don`t. EoD.

Nothing more annoying then someone acting like you. You make pronouncements about my friends, when you have NO idea. What an arrogant piece of shit. And, you are completely wrong. Try to get this through your stupid skull. They quit because of TOA. Would they have taken breaks? Maybe, but we will never know because they hated toa and left. And that was my point. TOA caused a lot of people to quit, that hurt the population, and many never came back.

Also, yeah....there is NO reason the producer/CEO would lie to cover up their own debacle. Do you believe every lie corporations tell you?

jfc

The earth is flat! No matter what the nasa says, do you believe every lie corporations tell you?

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:49 PM by AngelRose

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:40 PM
The earth is flat! No matter what the nasa says, do you believe every lie corporations tell you?

Is this an attempt at a joke? It is pretty hilarious. Made me laugh, but maybe not for the reasons intended.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:56 PM by Druth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:30 PM
The comparison factor could simply be the current and expected population. The NF-Maps are huge, for the same population that OF maps are small for. Because the spread-factor changes the feel of the mapsizes. If a 50kg dog can be heavy but a 50tonne ship can be light...then NF-Maps can be huge while OF-Maps are small, despite them being the same size. That argument actually proves my point

Yes, if you think someone who never saw a dog or a ship would assume them comparable, I think even a child could see they are not.
But I'm 99% certain you could put someone who never played DaoC in OF Uppland, let him play for 1 hour, then disconnect him, and when he relogged, put him in NF Uppland, and he would not notice the difference.

And again, you infuse "feel" into the comparison, which is what the poster lacked.
"Feels huge" and "is huge" is not the same, one says "I think", the other "I know".

Now I'm nit-picking!

Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:57 PM by Galandor

I prefer NF to OF, it's just plain better, but I already know they'll bring OF back as the server will take too much of a hit if they keep NF. Personally, idc which one they use. I've been saying they should do week long events like this every 3 months or so, easy way to give everyone what they want and keep things from getting stale.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:05 PM by Monkies

What we need is independent of NF or OF. What we need is stability and predictability. Certainly changing over to NF for a week is among the more dramatic changes but damn, we get a few days on one version of the game and then we get to rethink things all over. I understand the need to fix things and make tweaks but we’re well past that here.

Monkies/Dogbyte

Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:06 PM by Stoertebecker

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:15 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:38 AM
AngelRose wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:21 AM
You can deny it all you want, but many people quit because of toa. I did....so did many friends. And they never went back. It was not the only reason the population died at that time, but it was a huge factor for many. Daoc's population would have been much stronger in the following years if TOA roll out hadnt been so terrible

They`d quit anyway, with our without ToA.
There`s is noone that played for 19y without a break, but i`ve seen many with a 15y anniversary figure, which means ...15y sub.

And i deny nothing. If the former producer/ceo of the originally development studio stated that ToA did not kill DAoC, mhm...i don`t know, i think thats more reasonable for me as some random player #137575 saying * Uh....ToA killed DAoC, i hate ToA and NF*. They have the numbers, you don`t. EoD.

Nothing more annoying then someone acting like you. You make pronouncements about my friends, when you have NO idea. What an arrogant piece of shit. And, you are completely wrong. Try to get this through your stupid skull. They quit because of TOA. Would they have taken breaks? Maybe, but we will never know because they hated toa and left. And that was my point. TOA caused a lot of people to quit, that hurt the population, and many never came back.

Also, yeah....there is NO reason the producer/CEO would lie to cover up their own debacle. Do you believe every lie corporations tell you?

jfc

Well, i tend to believe the former CEO more than you if you`re speaking about friends and why they left DAoC 15y ago.

It would take too much time to explain why, more time that i`m going to invest discussing with you about ToA.
Maybe one thing, there are several interviews with him where he talks about CU, WAR and DAoC. He always said it was his fault that he sold Mythic, that Warhammer failed, he never complained about partners, coworkers and such. They were a team and if some things were fkkd up he took it on his own and said *my fault*.
That makes him a fine character. Sorry that i believe him more than user 13876 on the Phoenix forum.

And btw....we have a really great team with the Phoenix staff, we should support them more.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:18 PM by brewtus23

So honestly i am fine with either OF or NF, my thing is beta is over and can we just get some stability for awhile. I was just on the bug tracker and it seems to have alot of bugs that are still not fixed that have been reported by the population. Lets get some work done on fixing the Relic system and make it part of the game again instead of a complete and utter joke. Lets stop trying to add more stuff and change stuff and just fix the stuff that has been reported and when alot of those things get done alot of things will be better no matter what we are in OF or NF. I will keep playing regardless what frontier we finally get , i have been here since the start of Beta and tested and reported on a ton of stuff during that time. I am just looking to enjoy the game and enjoy the friends i have meet along the way.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:31 PM by Vkejai

brewtus23 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:18 PM
So honestly i am fine with either OF or NF, my thing is beta is over and can we just get some stability for awhile. I was just on the bug tracker and it seems to have alot of bugs that are still not fixed that have been reported by the population. Lets get some work done on fixing the Relic system and make it part of the game again instead of a complete and utter joke. Lets stop trying to add more stuff and change stuff and just fix the stuff that has been reported and when alot of those things get done alot of things will be better no matter what we are in OF or NF. I will keep playing regardless what frontier we finally get , i have been here since the start of Beta and tested and reported on a ton of stuff during that time. I am just looking to enjoy the game and enjoy the friends i have meet along the way.

Spot on , same as me.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:51 PM by Rhox

kvothe wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:34 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:52 AM
Wish people who hate NF would actually post why, and what their playstyle (solo visi/stealth, smallman, 8man, zerg, PvE, stealth group etc...) is.

Just saying you hate (or love) something is worth next to zero in regards to feedback.

OF I know my static hot spots (small man solo), log in and get some action (usually 1h of gameplay)
NF I need to check the map where I might find some action (might be gone when I arrive might be just a fg who knows) so I spend 30 min searching fights running into fg.
NF = log out

This nailed it to for me. I have put almost 2 million RP's across 6 toons since release of Phoenix. I know this isn't a toon but as a solo visible in most cases its a lot. I know exactly where to go to find random soloers. I know exactly where to go if the alb zerg gets to crazy in emain. I know what points to stop at or im gonna find a necro and get rolled.

NF I go to bridges and cant find anyone. I go to "hotspot" where the action is and mowed down. I try to roam and go through 3 rounds of buff pots before I find anyone and then its normally not a soloer. I can see why a lot of people like NF. Keep takes look like a lot more fun easier to find action and add to fights because of the "hotspots" but for someone who solos and likes the thrill and respect of the solo game I feel like I have wasted 31 days played.

This is not a change it back or else. This is not you guys or wrong. This is just explaining why NF breaks the game for me.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:56 PM by cere2

Rhox wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:51 PM
kvothe wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:34 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:52 AM
Wish people who hate NF would actually post why, and what their playstyle (solo visi/stealth, smallman, 8man, zerg, PvE, stealth group etc...) is.

Just saying you hate (or love) something is worth next to zero in regards to feedback.

OF I know my static hot spots (small man solo), log in and get some action (usually 1h of gameplay)
NF I need to check the map where I might find some action (might be gone when I arrive might be just a fg who knows) so I spend 30 min searching fights running into fg.
NF = log out

This nailed it to for me. I have put almost 2 million RP's across 6 toons since release of Phoenix. I know this isn't a toon but as a solo visible in most cases its a lot. I know exactly where to go to find random soloers. I know exactly where to go if the alb zerg gets to crazy in emain. I know what points to stop at or im gonna find a necro and get rolled.

NF I go to bridges and cant find anyone. I go to "hotspot" where the action is and mowed down. I try to roam and go through 3 rounds of buff pots before I find anyone and then its normally not a soloer. I can see why a lot of people like NF. Keep takes look like a lot more fun easier to find action and add to fights because of the "hotspots" but for someone who solos and likes the thrill and respect of the solo game I feel like I have wasted 31 days played.

This is not a change it back or else. This is not you guys or wrong. This is just explaining why NF breaks the game for me.

You have had 31 days played on OF, a few hours? on NF? perhaps with time you will find those area's that offer random soloers. Also, where is this place you go that offer's random soloers in OF? Or are you referring to the "bow/duel" zones in OF.....

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:00 PM by inoeth

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:49 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:40 PM
The earth is flat! No matter what the nasa says, do you believe every lie corporations tell you?

Is this an attempt at a joke? It is pretty hilarious. Made me laugh, but maybe not for the reasons intended.

congratulation you got it, its as hilarious as your post.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:03 PM by Rhox

cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:56 PM
Rhox wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 3:51 PM
kvothe wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:34 AM
OF I know my static hot spots (small man solo), log in and get some action (usually 1h of gameplay)
NF I need to check the map where I might find some action (might be gone when I arrive might be just a fg who knows) so I spend 30 min searching fights running into fg.
NF = log out

This nailed it to for me. I have put almost 2 million RP's across 6 toons since release of Phoenix. I know this isn't a toon but as a solo visible in most cases its a lot. I know exactly where to go to find random soloers. I know exactly where to go if the alb zerg gets to crazy in emain. I know what points to stop at or im gonna find a necro and get rolled.

NF I go to bridges and cant find anyone. I go to "hotspot" where the action is and mowed down. I try to roam and go through 3 rounds of buff pots before I find anyone and then its normally not a soloer. I can see why a lot of people like NF. Keep takes look like a lot more fun easier to find action and add to fights because of the "hotspots" but for someone who solos and likes the thrill and respect of the solo game I feel like I have wasted 31 days played.

This is not a change it back or else. This is not you guys or wrong. This is just explaining why NF breaks the game for me.

You have had 31 days played on OF, a few hours? on NF? perhaps with time you will find those area's that offer random soloers. Also, where is this place you go that offer's random soloers in OF? Or are you referring to the "bow/duel" zones in OF.....

No I played a good amount of NF back in the day so I have a understanding. Im sure there are spots but based on how dynamic the action is the go to spots will not be as common. I knew a good run from MPK to HPK in alb was always good for 1-2 solo fights per run lower chance of getting mowed down. Once again my view is just from a solo visible not trying to say I am right or wrong just my view.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:05 PM by Runental

For the solo QQ

Keep warfare is on a daily base. Ports are often broken. Solo reinforcements all the time between jumpponts in the river and the attacked keep.
I've been killed multiple times today between such routes,- and it was somewhere in no mans land^^
But you stay on your Chokepoints and QQ. Nice one. xD

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:32 PM by Inkwell84

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:38 PM
Inkwell84 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:51 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:11 AM
They went to WoW because they know the stand alone games and because it`s Blizzard. WoW wasn`t the only that released end of 2003 and in 2004.
Horizons, Everquest 2, Ryzom etcetc. They all had their part in the population decline in DAoC. The very last factor was ToA itself. So stop this crap with * ToA was DAoC`s ruin, it was not.
Not to mention that Mythic made theirself another competitor, Warhammer Online, which failed horribly.

To NF on Phoenix....
It would need some tweaks to make it attractive for solo players and smallscale, mounts and/or something like speed of the hunt ( runspeed between hastener and speed classes ), even if it would harm speed classes a bit.

Btw..Live server was still playable last year with 150-200 players on each side, and we had ~2k at EU primetime yesterday ( which was more than the week before)

I think many players, myself included, only ever left daoc because of ToA. It causes pve burnout for a rvr game.

And they jumped over to WoW and got what....?
Raids where you`ve must been available for each raid, for several hours. If you were missing one you were out. Raidloot point systems.
Retemplating with each addon...etcetc.
That was ok and never caused a burnout? But ToA was the devil....

Btw, who called DAoC a RvR game back in those days? The average rvr participation across all servers was between 15 and 18%, no matter how many players played on each server. It was ~25% on Uthgard 2, and i don`t think that we have much more here on Phoenix. Exception was the live server with approx 50% last year.
I would call that a minority. The majority of players is sitting in pve...in a so called rvr game.

Last but not least, we`re going to get NF here...maybe, not ToA.

Who says they all went to WoW? I sure didn’t.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:36 PM by eclipse2k

NF is superior to OF.

Whatever your choice of play style is, it's just easier to find in NF.
Want to zerg? Just follow the flames on the war map.
Want to have keep fights? They're just plain better, and last longer, in NF.
Want to have solo fights? Look out for porter routes and lurk around the porter keeps, there will always be solos coming out.
Want 8v8? Way more space now without mobs, or guards, to have fights.

I know a lot of people don't like NF, but I still think this mostly is because it came at the same time as some annoying classes (remember No-LoS Banshees at the bridges?), and shortly after ToA, which almost everyone hated.
NF itself is a ton of fun. I hope it stays.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:56 PM by Expfighter

eclipse2k wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:36 PM
NF is superior to OF.

Whatever your choice of play style is, it's just easier to find in NF.
Want to zerg? Just follow the flames on the war map.
Want to have keep fights? They're just plain better, and last longer, in NF.
Want to have solo fights? Look out for porter routes and lurk around the porter keeps, there will always be solos coming out.
Want 8v8? Way more space now without mobs, or guards, to have fights.

I know a lot of people don't like NF, but I still think this mostly is because it came at the same time as some annoying classes (remember No-LoS Banshees at the bridges?), and shortly after ToA, which almost everyone hated.
NF itself is a ton of fun. I hope it stays.

NF is garbage compared to OF!

if you love NF so much, pay your 14.95 and play it on live and help live survive! if EA/Mythic/broadsword were to open a classic SI OF, NO TOA, no Catacombs, no DR, no laby server I would pay 14.95 a month in a heartbeat!

Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:00 PM by AngelRose

Ywain sucks ass, but not because of NF. Broadsword ruined it.

This is a good change.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:23 PM by Pirhana7

I think the main problem is the devs only see the same 10% of people that want NF complaining over and over here while the other 90% who want OF aren't here saying that because they are enjoying playing in OF. So the Devs ONLY see the complainers but not those that are happy withw hat it is.
I mainly play on Phoenix for OFs, I loved the feel it gave of having to protect YOUR lands, I also like the OF relic keep system. If I wanted to play NF id go play on Broadsword.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:41 PM by Bulkatos

hello down or have your 3000 players gone? the connection stats were divided part 3 I think NF is not especially appresied and I personally expect the return of Of to replay Rvr.

Finally good that you tried not placed Fort + turn NF on OF ?

Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:45 PM by Silenko

There must be a poll I guess about NF or OF... The only problem I see is that in this server there is A LOT of people that doesn't read forums.

I wish they had a way to vote.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:00 PM by nailez

Its a no from me, retire is on the cards.

Yes I play a stealther but camping bridges or having to jump in boats with this low a population doesn't work.

Milegates were annoying for visi's as well as stealthers, if mid held a gate there was nothing at all we could do to get past effectively locked out of rvr.

Old lands just need a revamp, another door or two in milegates and climb points perhaps?

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:02 PM by Runental

Pirhana7 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:23 PM
I think the main problem is the devs only see the same 10% of people that want NF complaining over and over here while the other 90% who want OF aren't here saying that because they are enjoying playing in OF. So the Devs ONLY see the complainers but not those that are happy withw hat it is.
I mainly play on Phoenix for OFs, I loved the feel it gave of having to protect YOUR lands, I also like the OF relic keep system. If I wanted to play NF id go play on Broadsword.

90% want OF?

Made my day

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:05 PM by CsCDK

Omg its a one week test, realx and enjoy

Then just make your vote when the week is over ^^

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:26 PM by nailez

CsCDK wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:05 PM
Omg its a one week test, realx and enjoy

Then just make your vote when the week is over ^^

You act like its a choice, as others have said the vocal majority always go to forums, the minority and larger populous do not. Even if you put a vote on the launcher people would potentially ignore until its too late but that's a fairer way to gauge fuller opinion.

If the vote goes to NF then you will see a major decline in numbers though that I can assure you, as there are other avenues to play NF.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:31 PM by eclipse2k

Expfighter wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:56 PM
eclipse2k wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 4:36 PM
NF is superior to OF.

Whatever your choice of play style is, it's just easier to find in NF.
Want to zerg? Just follow the flames on the war map.
Want to have keep fights? They're just plain better, and last longer, in NF.
Want to have solo fights? Look out for porter routes and lurk around the porter keeps, there will always be solos coming out.
Want 8v8? Way more space now without mobs, or guards, to have fights.

I know a lot of people don't like NF, but I still think this mostly is because it came at the same time as some annoying classes (remember No-LoS Banshees at the bridges?), and shortly after ToA, which almost everyone hated.
NF itself is a ton of fun. I hope it stays.

NF is garbage compared to OF!

if you love NF so much, pay your 14.95 and play it on live and help live survive! if EA/Mythic/broadsword were to open a classic SI OF, NO TOA, no Catacombs, no DR, no laby server I would pay 14.95 a month in a heartbeat!

This is an unnecessarily hostile response to my post. You didn't even provide any reason as to why you think OF is better, or why NF supposedly sucks, and I think it is because you don't have any. You just like the nostalgia. I do, too. I just don't like having to burst through the mile gate zerg every time I want to play.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:53 PM by cere2

Kinda funny, the people who say they are enjoying NF are not saying that they will quit if it doesn't happen right now.
The one's saying NF sucks....after what 10 hours now? Are saying if it stays NF they will quit.
Also they say that 90% of the population hate NF...I mean, with all the stats they are providing, how could you not believe them?

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:55 PM by Iuppiter

I enjoy OF, I enjoy NF, but more importantly I enjoy playing with enough people to have fights of various sizes. Whichever map or hybrid of the maps that ends up being I'll play this server because I enjoy the dynamics of PvP in DAoC from solo to zerg and from open field to keep defense.

That being said, I understand the arguments on both sides: OF->NF feels like a bait and switch for those who joined the server because it was based on an OF patch level, and OF maps undoubtedly have their issues with milegates and keep defense. No matter the map choice not everyone will be happy, so I just hope the map chosen truly reflects the majority of the long-term server population's interests so that there are always enough people to fight

Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:56 PM by Turano

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:33 AM
There are enough chokepoints, from my experience on live last year.
The outer keeps, beno, bled and dc, the centerkeeps and the docks. Assassins can climb walls, remember?

i know some sins that made some million rp`s this way, and i think we will see that really soon.

Sure assas can climb walls. But as soon as you unstealth inside a keep you have guard aggro and the archers will kill you in seconds.
NF is all about keeps but assas are not allowed to participate in that (at least not here on phoenix where guards are riddiculous)

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:19 PM by argonautdunlop

Well. Ill just play some of my lower lvl toons til the NF test is over. I wont play NF so if NF stays Ill probably get a life instead

Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:47 PM by Dex

Pirhana7 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:23 PM
I think the main problem is the devs only see the same 10% of people that want NF complaining over and over here while the other 90% who want OF aren't here saying that because they are enjoying playing in OF. So the Devs ONLY see the complainers but not those that are happy with what it is.
I mainly play on Phoenix for OFs, I loved the feel it gave of having to protect YOUR lands, I also like the OF relic keep system. If I wanted to play NF id go play on Broadsword.

You have an important point here, but I'm not certain which side, or if neither side is over-represented on the forum. In either case, a forum poll is absolutely useless for gathering accurate data due to the sampling bias you allude to.

While I prefer NF I think, I'm personally more interested in the enduring health of the server, which may or may not have NF in its future. But the only way to determine that would be to take an accurate poll of player desires. So I would hope that they could integrate a poll in to the client to poll the entire population.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:41 PM by Stoertebecker

nailez wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 6:00 PM
Yes I play a stealther but camping bridges or having to jump in boats with this low a population doesn't work.

It works on live, with even a lower population.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:01 PM by Enyore

I don't mind either way, NF or OF - I will still play.

But i cannot be the only one who thinks that the last 2 days it has been SOOO much better for getting group fights - sure you still get jammed as there are many groups out and that's how DAOC is suppose to be, but still there are so many more groups roaming around instead of the endless OF Emain bottleneck zerging between AMG and MMG it ends up with every time.

Also - Siege fights are also so much more intense instead of the typical set up in the OF Courtyards and wait until the zerg outside either leaves for the next keep or are stupid enough to try and push into the CY bottleneck. Furthermore tanks have a much better role in sieges as postern doors offer a lot of diversity in the fights.

Understand from reading the boards it has been a bit harder for the sneaks than what they are used to, I wouldn't know as i don't play invisi-chars but NF offers much better options for visi-soloers as they don't constantly get stuck behind the mile gates.

As i said i don't mind either way, but so far it has been great fun to test NF.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:57 PM by Tarues

I love the NF map. The terrain is so much better. Being able to roam without hard ports and rebuffing is so nice.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:09 PM by Saroi

I don't know how somehow can say this is better for Solo play. I have been walking with my Paladin solo 2 days now and not even 1 1v1 fight. Going to the Docks to ride a boat or over a bridge solo is pure suicide. There are more SB camping there than in OF APK Emain.

And if I avoid going there and go somewhere else or swim just get rolled by groups.

I started twinking and had a full level group at low level, all the other 7 people started twinking too because they had the same shit experience in NF.

NF is maybe better for groupplay but surely not for solo.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:33 PM by Killaloth

As 8vs8/zerg NF is kinda ok, you know where to find fights.

Stealther paradise.

For solo visible/duos seems to be a nightmare, unless someone has suggestions on where to find visi solo action? I have tried pretty much everything with no luck, both morning and afternoon time.

Half of the 1vs1 I found gave less rps due to ppl suiciding in water >.<

Perhaps time to roll a NS if we keep NF, I have to admit it has to be fun for a stealther.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:08 PM by dreginkt

Ok my review-

New Frontiers - 3/10 - DAOC live took a huge dive with ToA and then NF, not sure why we are trying to mimic that failure
8v8- difficult, a lot of zerging out with limited spots to find 8v8 action. We avoided zergs and ran almost an hour last night with no 8v8s to include the middle island.
Solo/Duo as a skald- Impossible, fg+ everywhere or large amount of stealth at all areas where we knew we would find fights. You will pretty much always be ganked near a bridge or dock. Hibs as usual are impossible to escape due to instant amnesia with cruise missile range. You are free rps trying to run solo/duo and even small man at prime hours.
Zerg/Keep- The name of the game and hibs will be dominant due to their class builds. Difficult to do anything but this in NF successfully. Hibs will own the game while Pilzerg is on and Mids will do well with Grumpy online (plays far less than Pilz). Not sure who organizes Albs but they seem to lag when it comes to keeps due to organization rather than numbers.

Old Frontiers - 7/10 - Improvements can be made to make these frontiers better
8v8- Hardians or Breifine you can almost always find some. Emain will be heavy so be careful.
Solo/Duo Can do it in all realms easily, might get ganked around mile gates or on roads so cross mile gates when others do and dont travel on the roads but to the side.
Zerg/Keep- Generally in Emain or task keep areas. Can be avoided easily.

If NF becomes the permanent RvR method I will likely bow out all in all, it will turn into zerg only fights or stealth zerg fights with a handful of 8's until pop dies down to just the 8s then meh.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:16 PM by profoundtedium

You all know that "broadsword"/EA is planning a release of a Classic + SI server right? https://darkageofcamelot.com/article/friday-grab-bag-05242019

Why the f*** do you think it was the premise of Uthgard, Uthgard 2.0, Phoenix, and now Broadsword....
Yeah sure, you can come to the forum and claim that some developer/producer of the game back in the day claimed they had the statistics to prove WoW was the reason...
1) You're trusting the person who is accountable and believing their excuse which points to an outside entity (uncontrollable/unforeseeable) as the reason why.
2) This totally ignores the fact WoW was able to pull players away because the player base of DAoC post-TOA was PISSSSEED. There were a lot of MMO options at that time. I was in a prime gaming age of just starting college, i had over a dozen real life friends who I had played DAoC with. TOA game changes set the stage for people to be willing to drop their investment (time, characters, energy) into the property and go elsewhere.
3) Citing that someone once had statistics and numbers, which you didn't validate, or even provide, is not substantively better than random player #432324314324 voicing their experiential opinion having lived through it.

To all the NF advocates out there: why are you playing Dark Age of Camelot on a freeshard, 19 years after release? I personally have a steam account with plenty of options for other content I paid for I could be playing. Same goes with my Blizzard launcher.

Are you NF people playing here because you're in your mid to late 30s like me, and this game was an unmistakable part of your storied gaming personal-history and you chose to play this game over paid content because of nostalgia, which is a legit, bona fide reason for a 19yo game, or are you just someone who can't or refuses to pay for content and this is free, so yeah, why not? And come here to say "list your reasons so I can tell you why my opinion is better."

RELUCTANTLY, after having experienced the failure of Uthgard 2.0, I tried out this server after my friends convinced me how fucking solid the quality of life changes were, but how it was Classic + SI + OF. That's the secret recipe. Its what made me show up in the first place. Why? Because I was there in classic, and SI, and OF, that was the game I loved and its why people keep trying to replicate the experience over and over and over again.

My first post on this forum was on this thread, to voice my discontent, because that is what I was asked to do by this "Test". I didn't come to this freeshard to chat/qq/talk/complain/argue/debate on this forum about what the premise of the server is. That should have been established already, before it started. I don't always have an opportunity to play every day, and if I do, maybe an hour at most sometimes. Nostalgia players are adults now, usually with jobs and kids and commitments. Some of my friends haven't logged in in a couple months, but have every intention to (until news like this).

From the discussions on this thread, its apparent to me, that there should have been a poll/survey conducted as to whether or not we want this test, because as someone who doesn't give a fuck what the circle jerk community of cross realm chatters has to say in the forum, it was news to me.

But hey- its not the first time I wasted my time. And its not the first time a freeshard has fallen. And well, there's always Broadsword's legitimized version if you want to get those authentic "feels".

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:22 PM by AngelRose

Because NF was superior....till a few years ago. Then BS fucked it up. I am only playing this server because it is better then the current YWAIN, not because I didn't like NF a few years ago.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:32 PM by narwok

NF rules

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:33 PM by FRANGIO

NF rules!

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:38 PM by IamKaia

Very strong dislike for NF here...

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:39 PM by Snakejuice

OF whit NF keeps ?!

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:52 PM by Bumbles

profoundtedium wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:16 PM
You all know that "broadsword"/EA is planning a release of a Classic + SI server right? https://darkageofcamelot.com/article/friday-grab-bag-05242019

To all the NF advocates out there: why are you playing Dark Age of Camelot on a freeshard, 19 years after release? I personally have a steam account with plenty of options for other content I paid for I could be playing. Same goes with my Blizzard launcher.

ONLY reason I play here is because there are people to kill. Nothing more. If Live had to population this server has I would still gladly pay and support live.

Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:57 PM by Krendos

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 7:52 AM
Wish people who hate NF would actually post why, and what their playstyle (solo visi/stealth, smallman, 8man, zerg, PvE, stealth group etc...) is.

Just saying you hate (or love) something is worth next to zero in regards to feedback.

Honestly as a mostly visi solo player, (who does run with a buddy or two very rarely) getting out to the action is part of why I don't like NF. Now you have up to full groups, (visibles and non visibles) camping docks that you have to use to get places. 1 in 10 times two days in a row I made it to the action, only to be ganked as I got dropped off by the boat. I know there is a learning curve to it all, (disembark early blah blah) but honestly I would rather run from Druim Legion to emain with no speed than deal with a couple docks per map that are perma camped and end in me being free ARPEES.

For me, the fun was just sucked from the fun half the game entirely. I can see where 8 mans or even smaller groups of folks would find this a hoot, but my vote will be no at the end of me not doing any RVR this week, if logging in at all. Not trying to say I will leave if it's implemented or anything like that, even though I am leaning that way. This is their server and they can do what they think is best for it and the folks that are here, that's what makes these things awesome, or the reason they die. That is great and the time that I have played here has been fantastic, absolutely loved what they have done with this game and support their decisions even if I don't continue to play. No biggy either way.

There are a million other things I can do with my time, I just loved this in its two days ago iteration, now, not so much. Opinions are just that and do vary, I know my experience isn't more important than anyone elses, that is just simply my opinion.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:04 AM by Bumbles

Saroi wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:09 PM
I don't know how somehow can say this is better for Solo play. I have been walking with my Paladin solo 2 days now and not even 1 1v1 fight. Going to the Docks to ride a boat or over a bridge solo is pure suicide. There are more SB camping there than in OF APK Emain.

And if I avoid going there and go somewhere else or swim just get rolled by groups.

I started twinking and had a full level group at low level, all the other 7 people started twinking too because they had the same shit experience in NF.

NF is maybe better for groupplay but surely not for solo.

You realize there are 4 docks in each realm right? Having a hard time at Beno? Go to Bold? issues there go to Hurb/Ren..problem solved. When other realms ports are broken go to those same docks in other realms to get fights. I play a Scout, possibly one of the WORST classes as it currently stands yet I am in the top 20 of ALL people for solo kills over the last 48 hours right in there with Inf/NS/SBs/Minnys (Shout out to the 2 Hunters in the top 20)etc. You have ZERO excuses on why you can't get solo fights other than you enjoy the OF Emain battleground. Hearing peoples complaints just makes me realize that 90% have no clue about NF and how it actually works.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:09 AM by florin

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:04 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:09 PM
I don't know how somehow can say this is better for Solo play. I have been walking with my Paladin solo 2 days now and not even 1 1v1 fight. Going to the Docks to ride a boat or over a bridge solo is pure suicide. There are more SB camping there than in OF APK Emain.

And if I avoid going there and go somewhere else or swim just get rolled by groups.

I started twinking and had a full level group at low level, all the other 7 people started twinking too because they had the same shit experience in NF.

NF is maybe better for groupplay but surely not for solo.

You realize there are 4 docks in each realm right? Having a hard time at Beno? Go to Bold? issues there go to Hurb/Ren..problem solved. When other realms ports are broken go to those same docks in other realms to get fights. I play a Scout, possibly one of the WORST classes as it currently stands yet I am in the top 20 of ALL people for solo kills over the last 48 hours right in there with Inf/NS/SBs/Minnys (Shout out to the 2 Hunters in the top 20)etc. You have ZERO excuses on why you can't get solo fights other than you enjoy the OF Emain battleground. Hearing peoples complaints just makes me realize that 90% have no clue about NF and how it actually works.

Well ya - a stealth with range and shitton of towers/keeps/bridges/water of course you’re going to have lots of kills. It’s an archer heyday and you can see it reflected in who supports nf

Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:26 AM by Bumbles

florin wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:09 AM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:04 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:09 PM
I don't know how somehow can say this is better for Solo play. I have been walking with my Paladin solo 2 days now and not even 1 1v1 fight. Going to the Docks to ride a boat or over a bridge solo is pure suicide. There are more SB camping there than in OF APK Emain.

And if I avoid going there and go somewhere else or swim just get rolled by groups.

I started twinking and had a full level group at low level, all the other 7 people started twinking too because they had the same shit experience in NF.

NF is maybe better for groupplay but surely not for solo.

You realize there are 4 docks in each realm right? Having a hard time at Beno? Go to Bold? issues there go to Hurb/Ren..problem solved. When other realms ports are broken go to those same docks in other realms to get fights. I play a Scout, possibly one of the WORST classes as it currently stands yet I am in the top 20 of ALL people for solo kills over the last 48 hours right in there with Inf/NS/SBs/Minnys (Shout out to the 2 Hunters in the top 20)etc. You have ZERO excuses on why you can't get solo fights other than you enjoy the OF Emain battleground. Hearing peoples complaints just makes me realize that 90% have no clue about NF and how it actually works.

Well ya - a stealth with range and shitton of towers/keeps/bridges/water of course you’re going to have lots of kills. It’s an archer heyday and you can see it reflected in who supports nf

And assassins want OF because they are hand delivered green/blue/casters in a steady stream out of APK/MPK.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:39 AM by Campjr

NF has shown me to be a better platform for a solo stealthier. Finding 1v1 and can get out using bridge tactics and a lot less downtime running around...

Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:52 AM by Saroi

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:04 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:09 PM
I don't know how somehow can say this is better for Solo play. I have been walking with my Paladin solo 2 days now and not even 1 1v1 fight. Going to the Docks to ride a boat or over a bridge solo is pure suicide. There are more SB camping there than in OF APK Emain.

And if I avoid going there and go somewhere else or swim just get rolled by groups.

I started twinking and had a full level group at low level, all the other 7 people started twinking too because they had the same shit experience in NF.

NF is maybe better for groupplay but surely not for solo.

You realize there are 4 docks in each realm right? Having a hard time at Beno? Go to Bold? issues there go to Hurb/Ren..problem solved. When other realms ports are broken go to those same docks in other realms to get fights. I play a Scout, possibly one of the WORST classes as it currently stands yet I am in the top 20 of ALL people for solo kills over the last 48 hours right in there with Inf/NS/SBs/Minnys (Shout out to the 2 Hunters in the top 20)etc. You have ZERO excuses on why you can't get solo fights other than you enjoy the OF Emain battleground. Hearing peoples complaints just makes me realize that 90% have no clue about NF and how it actually works.

I was not at Beno I have been roaming around all over Mid and Hib land too. It is not that easy if you play a Paladin to roam around there without getting zerged down. I do not have stealth to pick my targets and avoiding the groups.
And in OF I have not been in Emain because I was mostly in Hadrian for better solo action and it was a lot better than this NF here. Your only thing about OF is this Emain camping but not everyone does it. There was enough action outside for 1v1.

You are allowed to like NF but stop trying to flame people who dislike NF.

Funny how people like you trying to defend NF with don't have success there? Go there and then there and then there.

I could say the same to you. Have trouble in OF Emain? Go Hadrian. Issues there? Go Odin, problem solved.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:47 AM by Bumbles

I have zero issues in OF finding fights. I have a plethora of SB sitting outside of APK to fight. Odins action is pretty dead now and you would know this, Hadrians always has 8man/small mans but good fights are still possible. OF is just camping mile gates. Server lost a ton of people due to the mile gate chokepoints. Feel free to go back through the forum to find the 30+ pages of mile gate camping threads and all the people who left because of it. OF players say “I’ll quit if it switches to NF” pro NF plays say “ I prefer NF but I’ll play either”. Facts.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:25 AM by florin

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:26 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:09 AM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:04 AM
You realize there are 4 docks in each realm right? Having a hard time at Beno? Go to Bold? issues there go to Hurb/Ren..problem solved. When other realms ports are broken go to those same docks in other realms to get fights. I play a Scout, possibly one of the WORST classes as it currently stands yet I am in the top 20 of ALL people for solo kills over the last 48 hours right in there with Inf/NS/SBs/Minnys (Shout out to the 2 Hunters in the top 20)etc. You have ZERO excuses on why you can't get solo fights other than you enjoy the OF Emain battleground. Hearing peoples complaints just makes me realize that 90% have no clue about NF and how it actually works.

Well ya - a stealth with range and shitton of towers/keeps/bridges/water of course you’re going to have lots of kills. It’s an archer heyday and you can see it reflected in who supports nf

And assassins want OF because they are hand delivered green/blue/casters in a steady stream out of APK/MPK.

No doubt but there are just as many rangers and hunters at OF APK.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:00 AM by nyght999

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:47 AM
I have zero issues in OF finding fights. I have a plethora of SB sitting outside of APK to fight. Odins action is pretty dead now and you would know this, Hadrians always has 8man/small mans but good fights are still possible. OF is just camping mile gates. Server lost a ton of people due to the mile gate chokepoints. Feel free to go back through the forum to find the 30+ pages of mile gate camping threads and all the people who left because of it. OF players say “I’ll quit if it switches to NF” pro NF plays say “ I prefer NF but I’ll play either”. Facts.

What exactly is a pro NF play? The term professional or pro came about as someone being paid for a profession. There are no pro NF players here, nobody is getting paid. Care to try again? This time without trying to flame someone?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:03 AM by relvinian

Pro.

LOL

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:27 AM by Joc

relvinian wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:03 AM
Pro.

LOL

Haha right! Nobody here is pro anything...

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:29 AM by Boltman

Pro as opposed to Con, meaning someone who is in favor of New Frontiers, which I am by the way. It's so nice to have multiple ways to get around, instead of funneled through a milegate.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:50 AM by Loki

Pro is a Latin preposition that means "for" , not to be mistaken with the short from professional. Run, Americans are hijacking this thread !

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:06 AM by tena6ous

I'm so happy with NF right now, this is great. There is so many things to do no matter your group size from solo to full group.
I was leaving the server because I wouldn't enjoy OF as much as I wished, passed the nostalgia thing, I was bored playing in OF because zones are not that good, and keepraid was too easy which was a total non-sense.

NF has a really great potential, and with little adjustment it'll be perfect to me !

100% pro.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:26 AM by Thaelion

I'm right here with you, tena6ous. In Of you always have LOS problems, the keep fights are just boring. I absolutely can't understand the people who make NF so bad. NF is the true DAOC with its battles and solo you can also play it super.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:58 AM by MacPrior

I mean, OF was very good, but OF still the first trial in a new world of RvR MMORPG. Yes, we had fun there for years. But NF was a huge step to more actions, more possibilities for all kind of game play style.
Each Zerg in NF has a possiblity to choose to evoid a stronger enemy zerg and raid keeps or looking for aktiv fight with enemy.
Stealther and other solos on Agramon Bridge and arrond the main Keeps just celebrated NF.
Lot of Smallmen can choose roaming in deep FZ or active participate the fights around porter Keeps.
Keep Fights are way more qualitative in NF - you have more tactics for defend the keep or to invide them.
And finally 8 vs 8 fraction has a possibility make the arena-like somewhere besides of big Zerging.

NF was a successful result of years of the analysis and was very carefully qualitative developed.

I cann't see any point why OF should be better or even comparable with NF. Mostly Its just "I like it, because I like it".

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:02 AM by Tacos

Salidry wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:22 PM
NF is much more about personal action/initiative and reaction.
As a solo or smallman or group you can pull towers or even keeps to create your own actions. if you have a bit larger numbers with you you can already think about opening ports, especially when population is a bit lower. There is the so called classical triangle of RPs when for example Hib has tp for Nged, Alb for DaBehn and Mid for Bolg. The action is much more concentrated and suits solo, smallman and groups. Works on Mid and Alb side also obviously. On Ywain or french servers when we had this triple port situation, people didn´t break the ports on purpose because it created good action for everybody even when population was low.
Of course all this asks for a bit of initiative which can be interprated as negative.
Reaction because you have to look at the warmap and figure out which keep the zerg is gonna hit next, where the groups are gonna roam or where the solos are depending on which ports are open, which keeps or towers are on fire etc. It requires a bit of adaptation and i understand people being new to NF are a bit lost with this.

Old Frontiers is much more static, you just suffer the situation, you have no impact on it. Want 8v8 ? Go breifine. Want Zerg ? Go emain. You blocked at the gate ? Cool, not much to do except sos through. Its always the same.

All in all i find NF waaaaay better. I would still continue to play on OF however. As someone else said in this post the proNF players seem to be much more open and flexible ( which is at the end why they like NF more ).

Thread.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:10 AM by labra

I don't mind whether it's OF or NF that ends up on Phoenix.

But I strongly believe there is more action, diversity and dynamic on NF.

Let bet honest, OF is mostly Emain. That means a short zone with bottlenecks, gate camping, fast action for 2/3 of realms.
Last introduction (port in keeps) tried to help people getting into action, wich is good but this was still emain and basta...

Since NF test began, I've seen many more action than previously.
My point a view is biased, I didn't played 8v8 (I don't do at all) and I haven't done that much solo either.
But I've seen zergs, people fighting in plain sight, in keeps, trying to attack/defend keeps/towers. I felt people enjoying what they were doibg more than on OF.

Some tweaks are still needed, some bugs needs for be fixed but still, I feel NF is better for Phoenix pop.

Devs might correct me if I'm wrong but maybe NF is easier to setup than OF with recent client changes.
If so, that frees them to work elsewhere.
And play.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:49 AM by pollojack

I've been enjoying NF. Don't have to wait hours for the trail of albs to die down so I can perf without an add. Granted adds still occur but mostly it is from people that simply play like that, stealth duos/trios, and friars/necros that add everything as few want to fight them.

You can step back if there is too many people in an area. If you go somewhere else, there will still be people. OF, I could sit outside pks in alb/mid for thirty minute chunks and not see a soul. Alternatively, there might be a solo here and there but a smallman would gobble them up too quickly. In NF smallmans are more likely to find other groups to fight which gives me breathing room on solo fights.

Again, one bridge is busy go some where else. OF if AMG was packed with mini/friar duos camping AMG it was simply time to play PlanetSide 2 as they would not stop adding, if you didn't have vanish up you likely weren't getting over the gate without an inf poping and then friar/mini adding.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:50 AM by Sepplord

Tacos wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:02 AM
Salidry wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 2:22 PM
NF is much more about personal action/initiative and reaction.
As a solo or smallman or group you can pull towers or even keeps to create your own actions. if you have a bit larger numbers with you you can already think about opening ports, especially when population is a bit lower. There is the so called classical triangle of RPs when for example Hib has tp for Nged, Alb for DaBehn and Mid for Bolg. The action is much more concentrated and suits solo, smallman and groups. Works on Mid and Alb side also obviously. On Ywain or french servers when we had this triple port situation, people didn´t break the ports on purpose because it created good action for everybody even when population was low.
Of course all this asks for a bit of initiative which can be interprated as negative.
Reaction because you have to look at the warmap and figure out which keep the zerg is gonna hit next, where the groups are gonna roam or where the solos are depending on which ports are open, which keeps or towers are on fire etc. It requires a bit of adaptation and i understand people being new to NF are a bit lost with this.

Old Frontiers is much more static, you just suffer the situation, you have no impact on it. Want 8v8 ? Go breifine. Want Zerg ? Go emain. You blocked at the gate ? Cool, not much to do except sos through. Its always the same.

All in all i find NF waaaaay better. I would still continue to play on OF however. As someone else said in this post the proNF players seem to be much more open and flexible ( which is at the end why they like NF more ).

Thread.

The thing is...assuming this is true (which i doubt because generalizations are often wrong), then the conclusion is to not implement NF and to go back to OF, because that would retain the higher population. The people making this argument seem to gloat with the smart remarks making them feel superior since they are so flexible...but fail to realise that that argument seals the deal AGAINST NF if it was taken as truth by the devs.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:38 AM by Arthoras

Second day impression:

The graphics and the whole scenary is a lot better in NF - sure its the newer map... so it must be more beautiful than OF. What i really dont like - there are really a lot of PVE Camps and the camps are really big sometimes. i was wandering throw pennine mountains and there are so much agro camps (funny slalom through giant wolfs and giant lizards). Sure that is only a problem because i am used to OF maps and just know where the mobs are in OF and in NF its all new and i must simply learn the new route.

I really found solo fights yesterday... not so many, but 3 or 4 over 2 hours. thats worse then in OF, but its better then the first day. I think that NF needs time to settle down and the people need time to adapt to the routes, like myself need time to learn the map (i get lost sooo often yesterday). What is clearly a downgrade for me personal is, that the hastener speed is not long enough to manage the boattrip and the walk (its so much walking...) to my aim. Perhaps the duration can be upgrade to 15 minutes? The Devs said a lot of times that we cannot have Hastener charges or horses... so perhaps a little buff to the duration is possible?

But I can say: that are all things that i can learn... but I am old and a very slow learning person - I dont know if I can learn it in a week. but whatever. yesterday was not that worse - I think today I will test the midgard map and do some sightseeing

My conclusion is - I try to make the best of the test. I try to see as much of the map as I could and enjoy the sceneray and map itself. The fights will come with that... or I go to a bridge and try to kill the 100 sneaks there, thats fun too. I will find my fun in that week. Not easy so far... but trying is better then not trying.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:44 AM by Wooshh

Sorry but too zergy. To find 8 vs 8 yesterday was very very hard,the only positive thing was that zerg stays on keeps and you dont get zerged but also from 16 to 17.30 just 2 incs. Maybe unluckhy i ll try again. Maybe we all need time to understand where to go. Water movement is too fast, is nonesense to move on bridges when you can swim. Boats are super boring can they be faster? one of the best pointa of phoenix is to be fast ready to fight with teleport, boats are one step back

Wed 12 Jun 2019 9:42 AM by Anelyn77

Come to middle island for 8v8 am even going to propose to devs to use this location for new arena event since the landscape is fantastic for action (plenty of open space with slopes and trees / small buildings - artifacts for LoS). We'll be running 8m through there daily till AS BG forms (which is about 12:00pm CeT when grumpy gets home hehe).

Don't worry about zergs, they may pass through there, but they will always go for keeps / towers, so the chances of being interrupted / added on are slim.

/Bnotashamed R4L3 pac healer

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:03 AM by keen

Wooshh wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:44 AM
Sorry but too zergy. To find 8 vs 8 yesterday was very very hard

It is much easier to find 8v8 with NF, go EV?!

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:31 AM by tena6ous

Wooshh wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:44 AM
Sorry but too zergy. To find 8 vs 8 yesterday was very very hard,the only positive thing was that zerg stays on keeps and you dont get zerged but also from 16 to 17.30 just 2 incs. Maybe unluckhy i ll try again. Maybe we all need time to understand where to go. Water movement is too fast, is nonesense to move on bridges when you can swim. Boats are super boring can they be faster? one of the best pointa of phoenix is to be fast ready to fight with teleport, boats are one step back

Well actually 2 days are not enough for groups to set up routine for roaming.
Also you can think strategy, if you start fire on a tower in a calm zone and roam around it you should see groups coming one by one, while zerg will concentrate on much larger targets it would allow you to have some nice 8v8 encounters.

That's where NF has all his power, you start a fire and then can take advantage of it. Basic roaming is not the only solution !

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:01 AM by Ele

Day two review: We had a good time!
Still encountered the earlier mentioned los-issues on the same places as before, but that is not a surprise, as I did not open a bug report.
We were mostly roaming and found several 8vs8 fights, two on EV, some others in Hadrians and Jamtland. Not comparable to an evening in OF OG when you know that other groups looking for 8vs8 are there, but given that all fights emerged from roaming, there was a lot of 8man-action.
In addition to this we attempted to defend Nott. Didn't work because we were the only group defending, but we got several kills while Pilzpowers zerg opened the inner door. After it was opened we rushed the ramparts and slaughtered through a ton of rangers, animists and people who didn't get the inner door was open and noone was inside, which caused the best laugh we had the whole evening.
As the action was centered in mid while we ran, action was easy and fast to have for us due to teleporting. Its easy to figure out the main routes from the porter keeps to the action, so oftentimes action found us on the way from Glen/Blend towards Bled/EV Area. Despite for one inc, we only encountered hibs in mid and albs only in EV/Hadrians, so I guess for them it was not this kind of near instant action. Running over EV was ok. Boats could be a little faster for my taste, still faster than running, but boring because you dont have the possibility of inc, except the dropoff point.

Summary:
Had a good time, lots of 8man-action, keep defends and a few tower attacks were fun, boat speed increase would be nice. I still like NF!

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:12 AM by tena6ous

dreginkt wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:08 PM
Ok my review-

New Frontiers - 3/10 - DAOC live took a huge dive with ToA and then NF, not sure why we are trying to mimic that failure
8v8- difficult, a lot of zerging out with limited spots to find 8v8 action. We avoided zergs and ran almost an hour last night with no 8v8s to include the middle island.
Solo/Duo as a skald- Impossible, fg+ everywhere or large amount of stealth at all areas where we knew we would find fights. You will pretty much always be ganked near a bridge or dock. Hibs as usual are impossible to escape due to instant amnesia with cruise missile range. You are free rps trying to run solo/duo and even small man at prime hours.
Zerg/Keep- The name of the game and hibs will be dominant due to their class builds. Difficult to do anything but this in NF successfully. Hibs will own the game while Pilzerg is on and Mids will do well with Grumpy online (plays far less than Pilz). Not sure who organizes Albs but they seem to lag when it comes to keeps due to organization rather than numbers.

Old Frontiers - 7/10 - Improvements can be made to make these frontiers better
8v8- Hardians or Breifine you can almost always find some. Emain will be heavy so be careful.
Solo/Duo Can do it in all realms easily, might get ganked around mile gates or on roads so cross mile gates when others do and dont travel on the roads but to the side.
Zerg/Keep- Generally in Emain or task keep areas. Can be avoided easily.

If NF becomes the permanent RvR method I will likely bow out all in all, it will turn into zerg only fights or stealth zerg fights with a handful of 8's until pop dies down to just the 8s then meh.

ToA and NF didn't killed DAoC. DAoC took a dive in pop because of WoW which reach way more people with its content, even if WoW was hardcore.. Don't forget the fact that DAoC has always gathered niche players... People always say that players had gone to WoW because of ToA/NF and never actually considered the fact that WoW simply overcomed DAoC with much richer contents and a well known universe that players were enjoying. So please end this false statment that we're here replicating a old mythic failure, this is just false.
As a casual player that would only play few hours a week, I took me 2 years to have all my ML artifacts and whatsoever. And I've been enjoying this even with this level of difficulty ! ToA despite is difficulty was a great expansion to me. And so was NF which enabled me to solo play in RvR with a theurgist, which was merely impossible in OF.

You said that duo skald in NF is impossible ? Whew...
I played last evening prime time an alb duo (minstrel/reaver) and we've enjoying this pretty much roaming on Emain. We had to be careful of avoiding roaming groups but we've manage to roam and have some fights, even using crauchon bridges...
Solo/duo can be difficult for any class that has no bard/skald/minst speed. But seeing you complaining while playing skald is a bit ridiculous to me

Skald has everything you need for solo/duo !
How could you manage to solo/duo in OF and not beeing able to do it in NF ?

Of course we took instant amnesias too, but whatever, this shit happen in OF too, so I don't get why you would say this is due to NF..

It's funny how you end up explaining how to avoid problem in OF. You're basically saying that you had the same problems on OF and knew the solutions. Have you even tried to find solutions for NF ?
I think with some time you could get used to NF and find how to play it, NF is easier, but it's different, so you have to find new way to work with it !

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:14 AM by Gorgoroth

Update on my original impressions (which were mostly negative) from an Assassins point of view:

Positive:

- Possibly just pure luck on my side, but I mostly avoided the Alb or Hib stealth Zerg unintentionally as a solo SB. Fights VS other Stealthers were mostly 1v1 or 1v2, which is better than in the OF.
- Action is easily predictable with the /rw map.
- Zerg vs Zerg Action happens frequently. Even as a solo Assassin, its easy to pick off some positional outliers of other realms.
- I was able to remain alive for very long stretches of time, due to less adds in NF / compared to OF. I also had to use vanish much less than in old Emain to avoid the typical add group.
- I think earning Feathers through RVR is easier in NF compared to OF.

Negative:

- Keep defenses or attacks as solo Assassin are quite bad (at least that’s my impression so far), as Grouped players are Spec Buffed much better than you are with a buff pot. Hence picking off people who position themselves poorly is VERY hard to pull off.
- Action is restricted to bridges and Docks mostly. Which makes the NF smaller in terms of actual Action area compared to the OF. Add the travel distance in NF to those Action areas and you spend more of your time with Travel to a smaller field of interest, as it was in OF.
- Even though I was not personally affected by this yet, I could read in /region and Ally chat, that alb stealthers (of course… who else…) were massively stealth zerging in certain locations. (why do alb stealther rarely run solo is still a mystery to me, but that’s off topic)
- Keep battles are dominated by the keep owning faction, if there are some defenders present, as keep Guards respawn way to fast still. This allows a well playing group to defend successfully with much lower numbers.

Conclusion (for me)
- I want OF back still, though I am not as negative with NF as I was the first day when it launched. I think the server crew does a great job, so I am optimistic that we will see great RVR on this server, being it in OF or NF.
- I still want OF back…

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:28 AM by tena6ous

Gorgoroth wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:14 AM
- Keep battles are dominated by the keep owning faction, if there are some defenders present, as keep Guards respawn way to fast still. This allows a well playing group to defend successfully with much lower numbers.

This actually has beeing changed has respawning time has be doubled yesterday !
Don't forget that NF is subject to a lot of adjustment before we'll have something balanced !

On the other hand, OF wouldn't allow much keep defense, as keeps were falling so quickly you won't be able to come and defend in time. OF was way too easy for attack.
I think again it's a matter of balance because for now there is not enough sieges weapons, which would be helpful for attackers in NF as you're supposed to be able to break keep walls and take advantages of many entrances ! This could evolve as devs are looking forward to balance everything.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:30 AM by Dume

Runental wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:01 AM
Dume wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:09 AM
Hello,

I hate too NF, its the reason why i left live server in the past...

I was on Phoenix because of OF...

I love to play on OF, please bring me back my OF

I will stop phoenix if NF stays permanently...

I wasted my time to level and template for this NF bullshit...

Im so frustated,

If i wanted to play on NF, i would go on live server....

Phoenix OF was magic for me... Now its HELL...

Regards

/rofl

Dear Runental,

I know you, we played together on uthgard years ago on midgard,,

I do not understand why you are laughing of my distress and my sadness ...

It was just my feeling...

I did not think you were so haughty and arrogant ...

We are in discussion with my guild and friends of other guilds to move on another classic server, about 60 people, in case of NF would continue on Phoenix Server...

You have to understand that we played on Phoenix because of OF...

Playing on NF, its a nonsense for us, and we have no fun now...

Regards

Dume

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:35 AM by eiman

OF but with NF keeps

Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:12 PM by Freedomcall

What do you guys think about NF keeps?
I'm not that sure, but it seems like it is too hard to siege a keep that is defended.
Or maybe zergs prefer to take WTs only instead cuz sieging keep isn't worthy compared to towers.
I've only seen few keeps fell since yesterday.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:13 PM by Runental

Dear Dume. I apologize for that, but your post was like 80%, of the people who have their problems with NF.
Full of wining, and not one single argument to explain your opinion.

Regards

Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:43 PM by Ushysen

Re: Kick NF before the end of the week. #20
by Uthred
The test will last for one week. We will not end it earlier as announced.
Building your world since 2017

Look like staff dont care about communuty advice...

Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:50 PM by inoeth

Ushysen wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:43 PM
Re: Kick NF before the end of the week. #20
by Uthred
The test will last for one week. We will not end it earlier as announced.
Building your world since 2017

Look like staff dont care about communuty advice...

"advice"

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:09 PM by Dominus

I've logged in 2x since NF and didn't stay in game more than 20 min. Curious to see how population has gone up/down during this "test".

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:09 PM by Sepplord

Ushysen wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:43 PM
Re: Kick NF before the end of the week. #20
by Uthred
The test will last for one week. We will not end it earlier as announced.
Building your world since 2017

Look like staff dont care about communuty advice...

...

ops:

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:13 PM by PingGuy

Ushysen wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:43 PM
Re: Kick NF before the end of the week. #20
by Uthred
The test will last for one week. We will not end it earlier as announced.
Building your world since 2017

Look like staff dont care about communuty advice...

Maybe they really wanted this test to show them something, and stopping it early would reduce the amount of input they get.
Maybe since this is all just volunteer work, they don't have time set aside to switch things over before the end of the week.
Maybe one small thread about stopping the test pales in comparison to this large thread with lots of input and opinions.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:13 PM by kratoxin

since march population has been dropping, sitting around 1600-1800 at max now, while march had well over 3k players. dropped a total of 1200 players in 3 months... NF wont fix this i'm afraid.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:14 PM by Stoertebecker

Ever thought about that the staff has no other option than going NF or pulling the plug?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:17 PM by kratoxin

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:14 PM
Ever thought about that the staff has no other option than going NF or pulling the plug?

This was created as a classic server not a live server, did classic have NF? no.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:20 PM by Bumbles

nyght999 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:00 AM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:47 AM
I have zero issues in OF finding fights. I have a plethora of SB sitting outside of APK to fight. Odins action is pretty dead now and you would know this, Hadrians always has 8man/small mans but good fights are still possible. OF is just camping mile gates. Server lost a ton of people due to the mile gate chokepoints. Feel free to go back through the forum to find the 30+ pages of mile gate camping threads and all the people who left because of it. OF players say “I’ll quit if it switches to NF” pro NF plays say “ I prefer NF but I’ll play either”. Facts.

What exactly is a pro NF play? The term professional or pro came about as someone being paid for a profession. There are no pro NF players here, nobody is getting paid. Care to try again? This time without trying to flame someone?

Pro as in “for” you dumb twat.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:24 PM by Stoertebecker

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:17 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:14 PM
Ever thought about that the staff has no other option than going NF or pulling the plug?

This was created as a classic server not a live server, did classic have NF? no.

Reread what i wrote.

The whole DOL server concept is based on that the player grabs the official client and has to be downgraded from the staff to the patchlevel they want.
If the official client isn`t containing or providing any OF related stuff anymore, and you`re not allowed to manipulate the game client...you`ll run into some serious problems.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:36 PM by nyght999

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:20 PM
nyght999 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:00 AM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:47 AM
I have zero issues in OF finding fights. I have a plethora of SB sitting outside of APK to fight. Odins action is pretty dead now and you would know this, Hadrians always has 8man/small mans but good fights are still possible. OF is just camping mile gates. Server lost a ton of people due to the mile gate chokepoints. Feel free to go back through the forum to find the 30+ pages of mile gate camping threads and all the people who left because of it. OF players say “I’ll quit if it switches to NF” pro NF plays say “ I prefer NF but I’ll play either”. Facts.

What exactly is a pro NF play? The term professional or pro came about as someone being paid for a profession. There are no pro NF players here, nobody is getting paid. Care to try again? This time without trying to flame someone?

Pro as in “for” you dumb twat.

Several posts of you being an asshole for what? Is this how you act with everyone on a daily basis? By being a complete ass? I'd hate to have that mentality, you have some serious issues.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:38 PM by Dume

Runental wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:13 PM
Dear Dume. I apologize for that, but your post was like 80%, of the people who have their problems with NF.
Full of wining, and not one single argument to explain your opinion.

Regards

Dear Runental,

Thanks for your comprehension, i knew you are a good guy,

NF is like an earthquake for me

I hope i will see you soon on another server,

Regards

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:41 PM by Runental

Btw, how does Uthgard manage that so called client problem?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:45 PM by

gruenesschaf

Runental wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:41 PM
Btw, how does Uthgard manage that so called client problem?

Via client files distributed in their patcher / installer.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:48 PM by PedrotheButcher

I like NF alot

I'm a solo NS, ppl saying not finding solo fights r wrong, i find more solo fights in NF.

I can believe the switch to NF is hard , but imo NF is just about reading the /rw map and adapting all the time,

the zergfights r nice,
the towerfights r nice
and even camping docks/bridges sometimes can be nice, at low pop houres

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:55 PM by Runental

http://www.strawpoll.me/18146883/r

Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:59 PM by Turano

To me OF is like a fine restaurant while NF is McDonalds. All you get is instant action without tactics or strategy.
You check the warmap, figure out where people can spawn and what way they might take to the nearest action. Then you teleport or sail there, try to dodge the various ganking squads, may it be smallman, stealthers or 8man, on the way. Once you are there you try to get a kill, possibly without getting added (who am i kidding, you will get added most of the time and just die) and repeat that until you get sent back home. I don't thing I ever had to rebuff more than once ever in a Single run so the death frequency is much higher.
Sure I made my RP's on first testing day, and not too few. But it Was just not fun playing that way, for me at least.
Yesterday I didn't really bother testing more, but i was home from work after midnight so that may have been a reason as well

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:09 PM by Runental

Turano wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:59 PM
To me OF is like a fine restaurant while NF is McDonalds. All you get is instant action without tactics or strategy.

May i ask you what strategy and tactic OF can offer?
Actually it's NF who offers more dynamic and strategy due ports, flame baits and reinforcemt routes.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:10 PM by Aenect

So far I'm actually enjoying the zerg/large group fights around towers and keeps much more than I did in OF. Past two nights were 30k+ rps each, but more importantly some of the most fun in RvR I've had since joining the server. We had some epic tower defenses and keep takes - like long, epic battles. This is what DAoC is all about. It was hard to get this with OF keep design. The visibility in OF keeps makes it fairly one dimensional for taking/defending. In NF running on my assassin with the realm, infiltrating keeps and towers was much more fun than in OF because it's much easier to pick off people due to the structure of the keeps in NF (if guards are pulled) So for people complaining about solo play in NF, that's been the solution I've found.

Also going to more remote keeps so far I've gotten a lot of solo kills.

Overall NF is:
Better for zerg
Better for 8 man
Better for keep take/defense
Solo/small man: you need to be more creative to find fights (like going to more remote places from Port keep dock)

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:27 PM by labova

Reluctantly, the head says NF...the heart says OF. I guess it is nostalgia that tugs the heart, but realistically I find NF a lot better, especially for sieges. Good luck to the devs in making a decision.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:32 PM by Turano

Aenect wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:10 PM
In NF running on my assassin with the realm, infiltrating keeps and towers was much more fun than in OF because it's much easier to pick off people due to the structure of the keeps in NF (if guards are pulled) So for people complaining about solo play in NF, that's been the solution I've found.

So your solution for solo assas is to go and raid keeps with the zerg?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:35 PM by gotwqqd

Have they implemented mobs for those wanting to level in NF? Along with all the mobs for the turn in drops?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:35 PM by Smilo

Turano wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:59 PM
To me OF is like a fine restaurant while NF is McDonalds. All you get is instant action without tactics or strategy.
You check the warmap, figure out where people can spawn and what way they might take to the nearest action. Then you teleport or sail there, try to dodge the various ganking squads, may it be smallman, stealthers or 8man, on the way. Once you are there you try to get a kill, possibly without getting added (who am i kidding, you will get added most of the time and just die) and repeat that until you get sent back home.

Thats already more complex, challenging and fun than what OF has to offer.
OF: port (run if you're a Hib) to Emain, roam between walls, inc, win or die, release, port again.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:38 PM by Joc

NF has far more strategy involved than OF ever did.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:40 PM by Turano

Runental wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:09 PM
Turano wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:59 PM
To me OF is like a fine restaurant while NF is McDonalds. All you get is instant action without tactics or strategy.

May i ask you what strategy and tactic OF can offer?
Actually it's NF who offers more dynamic and strategy due ports, flame baits and reinforcemt routes.

OF has way more to offer than ATK>AMG in Emain.
HW and Odin's always offer some fights to those with patience.
2-3 months ago snowdonia had good action, especially in times of Alb invasion. Playing cat and mouse with the guys trying to hunt me down there was fun.
The new keep tasks bring more people to formerly almost dead regions of the frontier and getting kills in attack on a taskkeep with many people sitting there waiting with knifes between their teeth and waiting to jump on anything red is challenging

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:42 PM by Turano

Smilo wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:35 PM
Thats already more complex, challenging and fun than what OF has to offer.
OF: port to Emain, roam between walls, inc, win or die, release, port again.

So you already choose fastfood in OF. Is it the frontiers fault or yours?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:44 PM by Smilo

Turano wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:42 PM
So you already choose fastfood in OF. Is it the frontiers fault or yours?

Its yours for pretending a few good fights in Snowdonia THREE MONTHS AGO is a good argument for keeping OF.
NF simply offers more things to do. But its NEW and we need to get used to it.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:52 PM by Turano

Smilo wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:44 PM
Turano wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:42 PM
So you already choose fastfood in OF. Is it the frontiers fault or yours?

Its yours for pretending a few good fights in Snowdonia THREE MONTHS AGO is a good argument for keeping OF.
NF simply offers more things to do. But its NEW and we need to get used to it.

Good that you read all i wrote and then picked out the one zone that had sadly died down a bit.
But what else can i expect from an emain zergling

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:55 PM by Smilo

Turano wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:52 PM
Good that you read all i wrote and then picked out the one zone that had sadly died down a bit.
But what else can i expect from an emain zergling

Ad hominem attack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Looks like you're short on arguments.

FYI i dont zerg, i dont even group much because i AFK too much to be in a group, but even if i did that shouldnt be a concern for you.
You're here to play, not to dictate how everyone else should play.
"Zerglings" as you call them are populating the server and keeping it alive just like every other player.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:10 PM by Bumbles

nyght999 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:36 PM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:20 PM
nyght999 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:00 AM
What exactly is a pro NF play? The term professional or pro came about as someone being paid for a profession. There are no pro NF players here, nobody is getting paid. Care to try again? This time without trying to flame someone?

Pro as in “for” you dumb twat.

Several posts of you being an asshole for what? Is this how you act with everyone on a daily basis? By being a complete ass? I'd hate to have that mentality, you have some serious issues.

Only to those who deserve it. Your hyper passive aggressive comments deemed you worthy. Had I use a capital P in Pro that would have referenced Professional as in someone’s title. But your basic reading skills seem lack and you decided to try and be a smart ass. Life lesson for today.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:14 PM by Turano

Smilo wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:55 PM
Turano wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:52 PM
Good that you read all i wrote and then picked out the one zone that had sadly died down a bit.
But what else can i expect from an emain zergling

Ad hominem attack.
Looks like you're short on arguments.
FYI i dont zerg, but even if i did that shouldnt be a concern for you.
You're here to play, not to dictate how everyone else should play.

I am short of arguments? I brought you more then enough actuall ones and the only one you jump on is the one I already stated was a good zone in the past.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:17 PM by Smilo

Turano wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:14 PM
I am short of arguments? I brought you more then enough actuall ones and the only one you jump on is the one I already stated was a good zone in the past.

Yeah keep saying that to yourself... it will make it true!!!

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:33 PM by Thiccflair

So glad we tested NF, now this small community can be even more divided and kill the population quicker no matter how it goes.... /slowclap

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:35 PM by Smilo

Thiccflair wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:33 PM
So glad we tested NF, now this small community can be even more divided and kill the population quicker no matter how it goes.... /slowclap

Yeah, dumb players thinking the world is spinning around them threatening to quit isnt helping much either... (not talking about you, just ranting while slightly drunk).

I like NF better but if they kept OF i wouldnt leave the game.
And if i did it would be quietly, not crying a river about it.
We're not 11 years old anymore.

We got to the point we are complaining the staff is so active they are actually TESTING stuff.
Beyond crazyness.

If anything, maybe the beta phase should have lasted longer, but then we would have complained the beta was lasting forever.

And guys keep in mind one thing: if you want to play DAOC its either LIVE, an empty server or this one. And this one is BY FAR the best option.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:45 PM by Druth

Turano wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:40 PM
HW and Odin's always offer some fights to those with patience.

I camped, visi solo, the boat drop around surs when hibs were attacking around Boldiam.
It took patience, skill in dodging and I fought with nail and claw because dying meant having to boat back.
And I had a trio chase me into the maze, I managed to jump over some wall parts which only one succeeded at, and almost killed that bard, but then he got healed and I died. But it had potential, potential to win a fight that should be unwinnable.

I don't like your restaurant story, because it's clearly subjective painted by how you feel.
But I appreciate that it actually seems like you've given it thought.

Anyway, there is no way you'll ever enjoy NF if you don't want to. But believe me, believe me, there are very much material for playing with brains, skill and have fun without ever touching a siege.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:49 PM by kvothe

Today I adjusted my game play and had tons of fun, screw my old comments, NF is uwesome!

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:50 PM by Smilo

kvothe wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:49 PM
Today I adjusted my game play and had tons of fun, screw my old comments, NF is uwesome!

And you're awesome for being objective and able to change your mind. Only smart people can do that.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:07 PM by Wushu

If you want to play with NF, go play on Daoc live.
Remove NF plizz !!!!

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:10 PM by Freedomcall

Turano wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:32 PM
Aenect wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:10 PM
In NF running on my assassin with the realm, infiltrating keeps and towers was much more fun than in OF because it's much easier to pick off people due to the structure of the keeps in NF (if guards are pulled) So for people complaining about solo play in NF, that's been the solution I've found.
So your solution for solo assas is to go and raid keeps with the zerg?

I've been playing solo NS since NF test started, and mostly didn't follow zerg.
I can find enough actions at bridges and docks.
Some say there are too many adds, but that's already what happened in amg and mmg in emain in OF.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:19 PM by tommccartney

I personally don’t mind NF, although I wouldn’t say it was amazing by any means.

What concerns me is the amount of players who are threatening to leave if it stays.

Those who are FOR NF need to ask themselves if it would be worth trading off a heavy percentage of the server population in exchange for NF ?

The server population is such a fragile thing. My advice to the DEVS would to be stop treating the server like it’s still in BETA. A lot of my friends quit after the buff charge changes. Then there was the Non-RoG drop nerf. Also, the daily raids are now non existent due to DS feathers, meaning those needing merchant credit to even buy end game gear are left further behind. And now NF is here ..

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:22 PM by Galandor

tommccartney wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:19 PM
I personally don’t mind NF, although I wouldn’t say it was amazing by any means.

What concerns me is the amount of players who are threatening to leave if it stays.

Those who are FOR NF need to ask themselves if it would be worth trading off a heavy percentage of the server population in exchange for NF ?

The server population is such a fragile thing. My advice to the DEVS would to be stop treating the server like it’s still in BETA. A lot of my friends quit after the buff charge changes. Then there was the Non-RoG drop nerf. Also, the daily raids are now non existent due to DS feathers, meaning those needing merchant credit to even buy end game gear are left further behind. And now NF is here ..

The buff charges was a good thing, 0 issues with that as it levels the playing field. The biggest blunder has been the DS runs effectively removing the need for raids outside of needing credit. Preferably I'd have them remove the DS raid entirely, but they seem to like that stuff so /shrug.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:22 PM by Xoonaka

NF is a real refresh for the players. The map is much more diverse, there are more goals for those wishing to play the side "wargame" and there are many more 8v8 than on OF, where the maps are condensed. In my circle of players, we are all satisfied with this change which is remoting us to stay on the server.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:23 PM by Galandor

Wushu wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:07 PM
If you want to play with NF, go play on Daoc live.
Remove NF plizz !!!!

Why when we could just play it here?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:24 PM by bigne88

Aestetically and tactically NF is way better than OF.
For Zerg vs Zerg is mutch better, for sure.
Small and 8v8? Not sure. Agramon should be in, not that crazy thing there is in the middle of the map.
For sure with some time and practice 8v8 parties would adapt, but at the moment is an awfull shitshow where you roam around cluessly for 30 minutes.

Sooo, not sure if most of players are willing to accept the changes. If Agramon would be implemented, I might like the NF.

But looking at the comments, people prefers to camp gates and zerg emain...go figure out.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:27 PM by tommccartney

Galandor wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:22 PM
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:19 PM
I personally don’t mind NF, although I wouldn’t say it was amazing by any means.

What concerns me is the amount of players who are threatening to leave if it stays.

Those who are FOR NF need to ask themselves if it would be worth trading off a heavy percentage of the server population in exchange for NF ?

The server population is such a fragile thing. My advice to the DEVS would to be stop treating the server like it’s still in BETA. A lot of my friends quit after the buff charge changes. Then there was the Non-RoG drop nerf. Also, the daily raids are now non existent due to DS feathers, meaning those needing merchant credit to even buy end game gear are left further behind. And now NF is here ..

The buff charges was a good thing, 0 issues with that as it levels the playing field. The biggest blunder has been the DS runs effectively removing the need for raids outside of needing credit. Preferably I'd have them remove the DS raid entirely, but they seem to like that stuff so /shrug.

Maybe not remove DS, but remove the feather rewards entirely, but keep it for good RoG drop ? Off topic here I know haha

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:30 PM by Ashenspire

Never should've been OF from the get go. If people want to threaten to leave, let them threaten to leave.

People blame ToA and NF for killing the game, even though that was the period where the game had more subscribers than ever. NF revitalized the game and made it better. The only people that disliked NF were the ones mad they couldn't just camp a mile gate in Emain anymore

There was a reason OF was kicked to the curb. It was boring, and it was imbalanced. It is inferior in EVERY WAY to NF.

People just need to readjust. The solo community will find where they can hang out, and it'll be fine (as they seem to be the ones crying the loudest).

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:34 PM by Runental

Galandor wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:22 PM
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:19 PM
I personally don’t mind NF, although I wouldn’t say it was amazing by any means.

What concerns me is the amount of players who are threatening to leave if it stays.

Those who are FOR NF need to ask themselves if it would be worth trading off a heavy percentage of the server population in exchange for NF ?

The server population is such a fragile thing. My advice to the DEVS would to be stop treating the server like it’s still in BETA. A lot of my friends quit after the buff charge changes. Then there was the Non-RoG drop nerf. Also, the daily raids are now non existent due to DS feathers, meaning those needing merchant credit to even buy end game gear are left further behind. And now NF is here ..

The buff charges was a good thing, 0 issues with that as it levels the playing field. The biggest blunder has been the DS runs effectively removing the need for raids outside of needing credit. Preferably I'd have them remove the DS raid entirely, but they seem to like that stuff so /shrug.

Well, I opened a bug report 3 months ago for the loottables of Dragon and SI encounters.

https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/58b838ae-5598-4949-9f4a-69965bcefe81

The droprates are wrong and created a feather economy only.
Feathers were a good alternative to get items, but the chance getting a drop on a regular Dragonraid is/was almost not possible, cause the MP stuff simply not drop, or at least very very rare.
We also did a 3 FG SI raid 2 months ago, and the time you need for the named mobs is in no relation to the rewards you get.
Therefore, a DS run is the most efficient way to get the item u need...
We had always a lot of Fun killing the Dragon with a maximum of 19 people, but it was simply not wort it.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:35 PM by Niix

I understand why people like NF, the keeps are much more engaging to fight in and around against large numbers and there are no pure mile gate choke points that people abused to no end.

However, there is many issues with NF that people don't understand that I have strong fears will only cause population do dip compounding the problem. Off hours (not EU prime time) NF becomes way too big of zone without a sufficient population and the statistics show a steady decline in overall population. I firmly believe this stunt will do nothing but harm that population trend further as you have now given NF lovers a taste of the possibility and will be enraged to go back but if you keep NF you will lose people who joined this game to play OF.

The biggest difficulty with DAOC sustainability has always been population, large population and the game flourishes... as that population dips it drastically increases the time you spend running around not finding anything to fight. I think a move to NF is ignoring the FACT that the population will dwindle and potentially collapse in August when WOW vanilla is released. Please do not take this decision lightly, you cannot simply select the rvr platform based on a vote, 90% of the people that play this game will selfishly ignore these concerns because its more fun to fight in keeps ... yet it will kill the server and maybe they don't care... but I do.

I would like to suggest alternatives to the task system be made to avoid mile gate camping/zerging which seems to be the biggest hate for OF. Personally I enjoy OF keep battles more than NF, the unique layouts per realm and small stature are a plus to me. Anyway task change suggestion:

Revert the Task credits anywhere in frontier for group sizes above 4 people, this should discourage zerg players from zerging emain and camping mile gates and adjust keep/relic rewards to encourage keep warfare
This should let solo/small mans get credit without having to get zerged in task zone and provide incentive for full groups and multiples to play in the puddle of task zone.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:35 PM by Raunz

NF without speedwarps is meh and EV is not agramon...bring back the PvP zone from beta!

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:36 PM by Draygon

After further playing in NF I cant help but hope that the Devs keep it in.

I think those that dont like NF and want OF back are not understanding that in NF you have options, you have options on how to play. There are no set choke points, and if there is a choke point set up, you can go around it. I have heard people saying that they cant find people....which I think is pretty sad. There are plenty out and about you just have to actually move in NF and not just sit in one spot. OF had way too many choke points and it forced you to have to play a certain way, and there are those that loved that way but from what Im seeing the majority did not like it.

Again in NF you have options to play, if you want to zerg you can zerg, if you want smallman/8man there is that, and if you want solo/stealth there is that. There is no specific play style that you have to be locked into. In OF on this server, based on the Devs tasks, it is zerg zerg zerg and many couldnt stand that. I think after having the freedom of NF, going back to OF is not going to be possible.

Also, the Devs should not worry a bout players threatening to leave or not....there is no where else for them to go so assuming NF stays they just have to adapt and realize that such is life and you dont always get your way. NF is the best thing that has happened to the server in a long time.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:38 PM by BaldEagle

NF makes the most sense for the longevity of the server.

OF is basically a battleground of Emain and Breifine. If that is what people want, I'm sure a BG can be created.

Even though there is an NF test going on and people refuse to play on it, there are only 35 people on Uthgard as I type this. Sure, this isn't exactly primetime, but that isn't showing a massive protest in favor of OF. There won't be enough players on Uthgard to support it if Phoenix stay NF and they will be forced to play here if they want to continue playing the game.

On the other side of it, it will attract the people on live who love NF as that is really Phoenix's only competition.

It just makes the most sense. I can go on and on and NF being better because of this, and OF being better because of this, but in reality it just makes the most sense to have it as NF.

I think the next step is trying to advertise this game more and trying to get new people to come to Phoenix. People who will certainly be more attracted to NF than OF.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:41 PM by chois

NF without bonus toa and ml is not the same, a little bit boring for all, it s just my point of view

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:44 PM by Tarticus74

I remember many moons ago when agramon bridge was where people went to solo and have solo fights.

Was often a couple of visible solo there bowing and clapping and stuff waiting for fights same as stealth fights no one used to add.

Ok used to get the odd 8 man who used to kill everything but that was rare and people were left to there own devices.

Shame this couldn't happen again but the server is such a red is dead zerg fest and I get this and understand why people play like this

I add on fights on my SB why because simple I get added on all the time some 1 Vs 1 I respect but they are rare to find

As for NF I will admit I like OF better but if they stick with NF then NF it is I had some good fights back in NF and it's great when people take a few keeps and the stealthers can attack people coming into the keeps on main routes and the bridges.

I guess I'm not bothered either way but did find OF easier for beginners to get there head around

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:52 PM by Zergcaptain

Just logged in to a horrible Scenario in NF. All ports in Albion destroyed and only option is to port Hurbury which is super camped but leaves me with some options.

1) i can scout the area and try to win some fights (if i win the opponent will have a long long long travel back, so i won't be seing that guy for a rematch anytime soon)
2) I can wait for albs to rush out to the boat as a collective force (similar to APK camped scenario) and catch a boat to somewhere
3) I can join a group and do something, maybe retake towers to reestablish ports

#1 and #2 is okay, but with another issue. Where do i go to find a guaranteed fight?

NF brings alot of options. Some might be good and rewarding some times and some times they end up with no action at all. No action for more than 10 mins is a game killer for me personally. The amount of options is simply a bad thing for me.
OF gives me guaranteed action and convenience. I know the places i can find guaranteed fights fast.

Family man here, with very limited time to play. I simply can't invest the time in retaking ports and i simply won't take the risk of getting no action. And I am pretty social as well so fellow dads and I need to have the convenience of immediate action before one of our kids needs a diaper change or wake up crying.

This is 2019 - Convenience and quality in casual gaming is king - At least for me ;-)

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:56 PM by Catkain

I did not make a nostalgic comeback to DAOC for NF. I will most likely either stop playing daoc or go back to Uthgard if NF stays.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:57 PM by kalafonte

NF is great so far. Went out and did a few runs, reconfirmed my hatred, and now i have a week to Pve and level toons i have been wanting to make. GG

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:58 PM by inoeth

Zergcaptain wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:52 PM
Just logged in to a horrible Scenario in NF. All ports in Albion destroyed and only option is to port Hurbury which is super camped but leaves me with some options.

1) i can scout the area and try to win some fights (if i win the opponent will have a long long long travel back, so i won't be seing that guy for a rematch anytime soon)
2) I can wait for albs to rush out to the boat as a collective force (similar to APK camped scenario) and catch a boat to somewhere
3) I can join a group and do something, maybe retake towers to reestablish ports

#1 and #2 is okay, but with another issue. Where do i go to find a guaranteed fight?

NF brings alot of options. Some might be good and rewarding some times and some times they end up with no action at all. No action for more than 10 mins is a game killer for me personally. The amount of options is simply a bad thing for me.
OF gives me guaranteed action and convenience. I know the places i can find guaranteed fights fast.

Family man here, with very limited time to play. I simply can't invest the time in retaking ports and i simply won't take the risk of getting no action. And I am pretty social as well so fellow dads and I need to have the convenience of immediate action before one of our kids needs a diaper change or wake up crying.

This is 2019 - Convenience and quality in casual gaming is king - At least for me ;-)

just take another dock?
youre a very selfish guys arent you? think of all the hibs in OF have to run for 10 min then get zerged...
also: if you dont have port option, go get it!

Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:59 PM by inoeth

Catkain wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:56 PM
I did not make a nostalgic comeback to DAOC for NF. I will most likely either stop playing daoc or go back to Uthgard if NF stays.

have fun in empty zones there and dont forget to /rude abydos for me

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:01 PM by BaldEagle

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:58 PM
Zergcaptain wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:52 PM
Just logged in to a horrible Scenario in NF. All ports in Albion destroyed and only option is to port Hurbury which is super camped but leaves me with some options.

1) i can scout the area and try to win some fights (if i win the opponent will have a long long long travel back, so i won't be seing that guy for a rematch anytime soon)
2) I can wait for albs to rush out to the boat as a collective force (similar to APK camped scenario) and catch a boat to somewhere
3) I can join a group and do something, maybe retake towers to reestablish ports

#1 and #2 is okay, but with another issue. Where do i go to find a guaranteed fight?

NF brings alot of options. Some might be good and rewarding some times and some times they end up with no action at all. No action for more than 10 mins is a game killer for me personally. The amount of options is simply a bad thing for me.
OF gives me guaranteed action and convenience. I know the places i can find guaranteed fights fast.

Family man here, with very limited time to play. I simply can't invest the time in retaking ports and i simply won't take the risk of getting no action. And I am pretty social as well so fellow dads and I need to have the convenience of immediate action before one of our kids needs a diaper change or wake up crying.

This is 2019 - Convenience and quality in casual gaming is king - At least for me ;-)

just take another dock?
youre a very selfish guys arent you? think of all the hibs in OF have to run for 10 min then get zerged...
also: if you dont have port option, go get it!

Exactly. I don't think you being temporarily unable to port to Beno because of a single tower is a deal breaker.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:02 PM by Synda

Really enjoying NF, easy to find fights and usually something going on, most our guild like it and having fun. Even late night when not usually much action there was plenty with NF. Hope it stays.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:06 PM by Pops999

Why not both.jpg

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:08 PM by Draygon

Catkain wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:56 PM
I did not make a nostalgic comeback to DAOC for NF. I will most likely either stop playing daoc or go back to Uthgard if NF stays.

ok, bye

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:09 PM by Draygon

BaldEagle wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:01 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:58 PM
Zergcaptain wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 4:52 PM
Just logged in to a horrible Scenario in NF. All ports in Albion destroyed and only option is to port Hurbury which is super camped but leaves me with some options.

1) i can scout the area and try to win some fights (if i win the opponent will have a long long long travel back, so i won't be seing that guy for a rematch anytime soon)
2) I can wait for albs to rush out to the boat as a collective force (similar to APK camped scenario) and catch a boat to somewhere
3) I can join a group and do something, maybe retake towers to reestablish ports

#1 and #2 is okay, but with another issue. Where do i go to find a guaranteed fight?

NF brings alot of options. Some might be good and rewarding some times and some times they end up with no action at all. No action for more than 10 mins is a game killer for me personally. The amount of options is simply a bad thing for me.
OF gives me guaranteed action and convenience. I know the places i can find guaranteed fights fast.

Family man here, with very limited time to play. I simply can't invest the time in retaking ports and i simply won't take the risk of getting no action. And I am pretty social as well so fellow dads and I need to have the convenience of immediate action before one of our kids needs a diaper change or wake up crying.

This is 2019 - Convenience and quality in casual gaming is king - At least for me ;-)

just take another dock?
youre a very selfish guys arent you? think of all the hibs in OF have to run for 10 min then get zerged...
also: if you dont have port option, go get it!

Exactly. I don't think you being temporarily unable to port to Beno because of a single tower is a deal breaker.

NF gives options...OF, forced to play one way, no options. Simple as that. Dont have a port, go take it back dont assume someone else is going to do it for you .

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:11 PM by cere2

Well just as I suspected, NF has me back...I missed it more than I knew.
I am sorry to hear about people that will quit if they keep NF, there's always Uth....

I quit myself because I hated playing in OF period, after having NF with Live for years and years, I guess I felt like OF just was too sub-par.
I think everyone knows that either way not everyone will be happy, but that's gaming life regardless of what game you play/make etc.
Vanilla WoW coming back so we will inevitably lose some population to that stink-pot of a game too.
Either way I personally hope NF will become permanent, as after this week I think I will be back off the game unless I hear NF will become permanent.
Unlike others here, I do love Daoc, but OF is just too old for me to stay interested.

I must add however that Guards kicked my arse like I have never seen before...and they were yellow con...what the what?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:23 PM by mikeusnret

Absolutely HATE NF. The main reason I came to Phoenix was because it offered OF. I am sure that there are so many more things that could have been done with the server as it was instead of puking up the same content that already is available on the Broadsword Server. If NF stays, which it probably will, after this so-called test, many more people will be off to other things. Although some may disagree, but server population has already shown a drop since Monday and more will be on the way out.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:25 PM by cere2

mikeusnret wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:23 PM
Absolutely HATE NF. The main reason I came to Phoenix was because it offered OF. I am sure that there are so many more things that could have been done with the server as it was instead of puking up the same content that already is available on the Broadsword Server. If NF stays, which it probably will, after this so-called test, many more people will be off to other things. Although some may disagree, but server population has already shown a drop since Monday and more will be on the way out.

Thing is, it's not like the others. There is no TOA, no CL's, etc. It's still a custom server, but with updated graphics and maps.
You love your old flip phone, fine.
I'll take the Galaxy10x
Thanks!

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:27 PM by Draygon

mikeusnret wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:23 PM
Absolutely HATE NF. The main reason I came to Phoenix was because it offered OF. I am sure that there are so many more things that could have been done with the server as it was instead of puking up the same content that already is available on the Broadsword Server. If NF stays, which it probably will, after this so-called test, many more people will be off to other things. Although some may disagree, but server population has already shown a drop since Monday and more will be on the way out.

ok, bye....theres always Uth to go back to. And no all that was tried just created more zergs, and less options. All these people that are threatening to leave or quit are rather funny to me.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:30 PM by Smilo

There's a server with OF. It has 40 ppl playing in primetime. Feel free to re-populate it.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:38 PM by Gweinyth

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:17 AM
Oh yeah I wonder how well that 1 v 1 is gonna go when you can't even get to the boat without getting zerged, oh but your idea is to boat to DC to fight 1 v 1 where the zerging is even worse? Are you serious? Not to mention that everything about NF is just another massive timesink, it takes way too long to get around. We left Uthgard because of bs time sinks. They had the QOL down with this server and OF was nice, this is not nice tho. OF was perfectly imperfect but many of us still loved it, I have nothing but hate for NF, it looks pretty and stuff but the charm wears off after 5 minutes and you are just left wishing it was OF again.

Oh you mean like getting zerged by stealthers at every mg? It is almost impossible for a solo player to run through the mg's. At least now I can port somewhere to get to the action rather than hold my breath and wait for others to go through the mg's with me.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:44 PM by Gweinyth

hyshash wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 12:12 PM
Most ppl think that nf is larger then of because they only roam emain mmg<->amg and sometimes in odins.
Also the of maps are made in a way, so they seem to be way smaller since you roam on the main roads like 90% of the time because mobs are placed so badly you cant realy leave the main roads without taking aggro of camps.
Actually i think the only ppl who rly want of are mids and albs who enjoy roaming between mmg and amg the whole day and having zerg standoffs at mg's with no1 dieing on eigther side for minutes.
Everyone else and it doesnt rly matter if zerger, 8man, smallman, or solo rly should have a better time in nf after getting to know the places where you can find suitable action, because nf supports every single playstyle in a great way. And btw hibs should be jumping in joy because of better port possiblities.

Had a blast roaming with a 8man yesterday, it actually felt like real daoc for the first time in weeks. Constant incs (way more then the last weeks in of) but with enough space to evade zergs while being in the same zone. And allways the possiblitys to attack bridges and kite what ever came over em. Fast action via Ports and allways an eye on the warmap to see if ports will close or where the zerg roams atm. It felt way more "tactical" then anything i expierenced in of.
I would be happy if they could implement the icons for small/middle/large battles happening btw.

I play hib and yes the possibilities of getting to and fighting somewhere other than emain are very gratifying. I played for a long time yesterday and there was more action pretty much every where I went than I have seen in a long time with OF. I also like that I no longer have to run the gauntlet out of DL or Cain hoping not to get killed by the stealthers who camp there.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:55 PM by Ashenspire

"NF is too big"

All zones are 65535x65535. OF and NF are exactly the same size.

It's not that NF is too big. You just want to stay in the corridor between AMG and MMG in Emain. Say what you mean.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:07 PM by Galandor

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 5:55 PM
"NF is too big"

All zones are 65535x65535. OF and NF are exactly the same size.

It's not that NF is too big. You just want to stay in the corridor between AMG and MMG in Emain. Say what you mean.

This, so much this.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:08 PM by Halcyon702

I decided to pickup DAOC again after more than a decade off because Phoenix offered a "Classic/SI" server with OF and some QoL changes that I was initially unsure about. Thankfully the QoL changes were fine tuned and well thought out, allowing the building of a solid community with an reasonable rate of progression, allowing people to create alts, find groups, and get ready for RvR in a acceptable amount of time accounting for life's other commitments.

People have invested their time into the server based on those expectations laid out in the initial statement detailing the server status.

Given that, would changing to NF meet these expectations?
Would suddenly bringing in ToA / Cata / Labs meet expectations?
Would removing existing QoL changes meet expectations?

People don't want to be drawn in and then have the rug suddenly pulled out from under them. If Phoenix were announced as a NF server I would not have joined, and if it is becomes our only option I will take my leave.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:08 PM by Galandor

I prefer whatever causes the least drama in the long run.

Do I prefer the layout of NF to OF? Yes.

Am I willing to play in NF at the cost of 30% of the server? No.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:10 PM by Smilo

Galandor wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:08 PM
I prefer whatever causes the least drama in the long run.

Do I prefer the layout of NF to OF? Yes.

Am I willing to play in NF at the cost of 30% of the server? No.

Fine. Are you willing to play OF at the cost of 30% of the server?
A lot of players are already bored of OF Emain.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:12 PM by Galandor

Smilo wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:10 PM
Galandor wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:08 PM
I prefer whatever causes the least drama in the long run.

Do I prefer the layout of NF to OF? Yes.

Am I willing to play in NF at the cost of 30% of the server? No.

Fine. Are you willing to play OF at the cost of 30% of the server?

At that point there is no benefit in playing in either frontier so I'll pick the one that suites me best, what kind of question is that? Think with your brain.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:13 PM by alusnova415

Why not add most of the NF features to OF , they already added the ability to port to keeps. What other feature NF has that can be added? Is it even possible but if it can be done then you have the best of both worlds.

Now OF has a HUGE problem...the milegates , can they be removed altogether? If they can't can you add a set of stairs to both sides so there is a chance to break a chokepoint.

Also recommend a safe port to breifine for hibs.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:17 PM by Smilo

Galandor wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:12 PM
At that point there is no benefit in playing in either frontier so I'll pick the one that suites me best, what kind of question is that? Think with your brain.

Well first you are "not willing to play NF at the cost..." then you are going to "pick the one that suites you best".

You're not even agreeing with yourself.

I wonder who needs to think with his brain here...

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:26 PM by Myllasia

Galandor wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:08 PM
I prefer whatever causes the least drama in the long run.

Do I prefer the layout of NF to OF? Yes.

Am I willing to play in NF at the cost of 30% of the server? No.

The problem is if 30 % of the server will leave because of OF, others will leave too because of lack of enemies... NF needs an huge population to be viable...

Its better to have a good population on OF or a small population on NF ?

Think about that

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:29 PM by phixion

Halcyon702 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:08 PM
People don't want to be drawn in and then have the rug suddenly pulled out from under them. If Phoenix were announced as a NF server I would not have joined, and if it is becomes our only option I will take my leave.

Rug has been well and truly pulled already, too many custom changes and the Charge nerf.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:32 PM by cere2

Myllasia wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:26 PM
Galandor wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:08 PM
I prefer whatever causes the least drama in the long run.

Do I prefer the layout of NF to OF? Yes.

Am I willing to play in NF at the cost of 30% of the server? No.

The problem is if 30 % of the server will leave because of OF, others will leave too because of lack of enemies... NF needs an huge population to be viable...

Its better to have a good population on OF or a small population on NF ?

Think about that

Hogwash. NF performed excellent for years and years on Live with much less population than this by far.
People saying 30% will leave is like me saying 94% will stay, who really knows. No one.....
What we know for a fact is that NF is better graphically and tactically.
OF is a dead horse that continues to be kicked by people wishing they can remove MG's or add NF Keeps to OF etc.
They can't, and they won't. With OF you get what we have....and that just simply isn't enough for some people.
Game's evolve or they die. No game makes everyone happy.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:42 PM by Gweinyth

florin wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:09 AM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:04 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 10:09 PM
I don't know how somehow can say this is better for Solo play. I have been walking with my Paladin solo 2 days now and not even 1 1v1 fight. Going to the Docks to ride a boat or over a bridge solo is pure suicide. There are more SB camping there than in OF APK Emain.

And if I avoid going there and go somewhere else or swim just get rolled by groups.

I started twinking and had a full level group at low level, all the other 7 people started twinking too because they had the same shit experience in NF.

NF is maybe better for groupplay but surely not for solo.

You realize there are 4 docks in each realm right? Having a hard time at Beno? Go to Bold? issues there go to Hurb/Ren..problem solved. When other realms ports are broken go to those same docks in other realms to get fights. I play a Scout, possibly one of the WORST classes as it currently stands yet I am in the top 20 of ALL people for solo kills over the last 48 hours right in there with Inf/NS/SBs/Minnys (Shout out to the 2 Hunters in the top 20)etc. You have ZERO excuses on why you can't get solo fights other than you enjoy the OF Emain battleground. Hearing peoples complaints just makes me realize that 90% have no clue about NF and how it actually works.

Well ya - a stealth with range and shitton of towers/keeps/bridges/water of course you’re going to have lots of kills. It’s an archer heyday and you can see it reflected in who supports nf

99% of the time I play a bard. The other 1% is divided between my druid and casters. Yes I have a lvl 50 ranger who I played to get to 50 and have logged on for a hour since then. I still find NF easier to play with my visible characters but this is just my experience.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:44 PM by Myllasia

cere2 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:32 PM
Myllasia wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:26 PM
Galandor wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:08 PM
I prefer whatever causes the least drama in the long run.

Do I prefer the layout of NF to OF? Yes.

Am I willing to play in NF at the cost of 30% of the server? No.

The problem is if 30 % of the server will leave because of OF, others will leave too because of lack of enemies... NF needs an huge population to be viable...

Its better to have a good population on OF or a small population on NF ?

Think about that

Hogwash. NF performed excellent for years and years on Live with much less population than this by far.
People saying 30% will leave is like me saying 94% will stay, who really knows. No one.....
What we know for a fact is that NF is better graphically and tactically.
OF is a dead horse that continues to be kicked by people wishing they can remove MG's or add NF Keeps to OF etc.
They can't, and they won't. With OF you get what we have....and that just simply isn't enough for some people.
Game's evolve or they die. No game makes everyone happy.

Maybe yes, maybe not,

Im waiting for the end of the test to see the gamemasters choice.

For my part, i will stop and my friends too... we are thinking to move on other freeshard or game.

I dont play this week to express my displeasure...

The good point is that situation makes my wife very happy

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:51 PM by Galandor

Smilo wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:17 PM
Galandor wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:12 PM
At that point there is no benefit in playing in either frontier so I'll pick the one that suites me best, what kind of question is that? Think with your brain.

Well first you are "not willing to play NF at the cost..." then you are going to "pick the one that suites you best".

You're not even agreeing with yourself.

I wonder who needs to think with his brain here...

It's almost like you can't think. I said I won't sacrifice 30% of the server for NF. You then shoot back like a moron would I sacrifice 30% of the server for OF. The answer to that is obviously no as well. Why would I sacrifice 30% for either? However, if I'm forced to lose 30% either way, and there is no existential benefit to choosing either, obviously I'll choose the one that suites ME best then.

Did I dumb it down enough for you?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:52 PM by Tree

Well these last weeks Hibs ran keepzerg almost nonstop. In OF it was super boring most of the time. In NF there were lots of interesting fights and situations, a lot more dynamic RvR. So for me NF is probably more fun.

On the other hand the design style of OF is much better, the zones look distinct, they had fitting artwork and nice XP spots.
NF zones are functional, but bland and feel kinda generic (yep even compared to OF)

If it were my choice, keep the dynamic of NF, but if you can try to rework some of the design. Can you customize textures, models (Id like some OF keeps for nostalgia) and mob spawns?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:55 PM by Smilo

Galandor wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:51 PM
Did I dumb it down enough for you?

No but you're way too dumb to speak with me.

You're right, happy now?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:58 PM by cere2

Myllasia wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:44 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:32 PM
Myllasia wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:26 PM
The problem is if 30 % of the server will leave because of OF, others will leave too because of lack of enemies... NF needs an huge population to be viable...

Its better to have a good population on OF or a small population on NF ?

Think about that

Hogwash. NF performed excellent for years and years on Live with much less population than this by far.
People saying 30% will leave is like me saying 94% will stay, who really knows. No one.....
What we know for a fact is that NF is better graphically and tactically.
OF is a dead horse that continues to be kicked by people wishing they can remove MG's or add NF Keeps to OF etc.
They can't, and they won't. With OF you get what we have....and that just simply isn't enough for some people.
Game's evolve or they die. No game makes everyone happy.

Maybe yes, maybe not,

Im waiting for the end of the test to see the gamemasters choice.

For my part, i will stop and my friends too... we are thinking to move on other freeshard or game.

I dont play this week to express my displeasure...

The good point is that situation makes my wife very happy

Sorry to hear that as I think you are missing out on some really good gameplay.
I notice even in this thread, quite a few people changing their minds after playing in NF for more than one hour. Perhaps you should give it a shot too.
At least I tried OF for about 2.5 months before deciding it wasn't for me...

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:03 PM by Pie172

I guess I am not really surprised by the backlash in this thread after just 2 days. It’s a bit sad and hilarious.

Anyways, for context, I spent the first 2 months of Phoenix in Albion, then switched over to Hib because I had never played Hib on live and wanted to play a BM.

For OF, the Emain loop on alb was just so boring. Run to amg -> push mids to mpk -> mids reorganize and push albs to apk -> regroup and push mids to amg -> oh look a Hib group! Maybe once in awhile organize and go retake albland or midland but both involved mostly PvDoor. Neat.

OF on Hib, group up at DL -> 5/7 min run to emain -> thimble -> mmg -> amg -> get rolled by a Zerg and do it again. PvDoor in albland/midland and setup bomb groups but due to keep designs a single twf basically destroyed most defense.

Switch to NF, what a blast it has been the last 2 nights. Tons of good battles against mids and albs (8v8 and zergs), more easily available fights due to porting, and siege is simply more engaging and interesting.

Taking a tower next to a keep allows for a defensible position to fall back to. While trying to take a keep last night, we fought against defenders within the keep and others incoming from behind. Melee can guard posterns / defenders can use posterns. Just a more interesting and engaging system overall. Albland isn’t the most obnoxious place to traverse anymore.

There’s still tweaking to be done (for instance, keep/tower guards are outrageous and pathing is a bit wonky, as a keep guard and run straight through tower doors if aggroed), also I think the task needs to be adjusted in such a way that plays itself to NF (just like during the early stages of the task in OF, different ideas were tried).

Overall, I think NF would be great for the server and with tweaking can far exceed any rvr that OF could provide.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:05 PM by Malg

A friend and I started playing on Phoenix a month or two back, we have a couple 50s, and a variety of in progress toons. Once we got to 50, we quickly realized OF is just not for us and our playstyle (small man) as visible classes. Our interest was waning quickly, but the Molvik event a couple weeks back was amazing. And now this week of NF is everything we could have asked for.

NF offers so many more options for all types of play. The realm war map is a guide to where you can find action, what routes may have traffic, and other useful info. There is always stuff going on around Bled/Beno/Crauch bridges, and there are ways to get places somewhat safely if you are willing to be smart about it (as opposed to milegate or bust).

As others have stated, some people hate NF because of the classes that originally came with it, or because it was linked with ToA, but right now without those things - NF is no where near the terrible thing they describe or remember.

I really hope NF stays, as it a superior play experience in all aspects, especially with keeps/towers, for almost everybody.

Can't wait to vote NF!

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:06 PM by stormbrewer

I thought of an idea that could make everyone happy, I think. Give the people that like OF a level 50 BG, and keep NF. Then the players that like OF can have somewhere to go and rvr, and the players that like NF can go there to rvr. Watcha guys think of this idea?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:09 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

A bg is not the solution, the off task zones in OF were perfect for solo/small man I had fights there regularly. It's nothing but zerging in NF. Which only fits one type of players play style. They said themselves this server is supposed to appeal to everybody and their play styles and OF did that, you just can't camp AMG in OF and expect a 1 v 1 or wahtever which seems to be the main gripe by people who are for NF and against OF. If you like NF so much why not just go play live, and why try to emulate live server when classic style was where the charm is.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:13 PM by Draygon

Myllasia wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:44 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:32 PM
Myllasia wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 6:26 PM
The problem is if 30 % of the server will leave because of OF, others will leave too because of lack of enemies... NF needs an huge population to be viable...

Its better to have a good population on OF or a small population on NF ?

Think about that

Hogwash. NF performed excellent for years and years on Live with much less population than this by far.
People saying 30% will leave is like me saying 94% will stay, who really knows. No one.....
What we know for a fact is that NF is better graphically and tactically.
OF is a dead horse that continues to be kicked by people wishing they can remove MG's or add NF Keeps to OF etc.
They can't, and they won't. With OF you get what we have....and that just simply isn't enough for some people.
Game's evolve or they die. No game makes everyone happy.

Maybe yes, maybe not,

Im waiting for the end of the test to see the gamemasters choice.

For my part, i will stop and my friends too... we are thinking to move on other freeshard or game.

I dont play this week to express my displeasure...

The good point is that situation makes my wife very happy

Not playing this week does nothing for you or the server, it just shows tha tyou are unwilling to try and play what may be best for the server. Your inability to adapt is what brings servers down.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:14 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

People want things to be consistent, not have a hardcore change every two weeks. Any big decision like this should have been sorted out in the beta, it's crappy to just pull the rug out from under the people who came here from Uthgard expecting a classic server with QOL. NF as a event once in awhile would be okay but if it becomes permanent I predict a severe nose dive in terms of player numbers.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:30 PM by Tokajer

The only thing what the server destroys are the qq and mimimi guys and girls around here.

It's not about OF or NF it's about DAoC and DAoC is the community. It's base is a rocking solid stable server (Phoenix) and not a f...ing map. It's about fun and competition with other people.

If you love DAoC you play on a server where you get updates and fixes and where's a great community.

OF is about running APK/MPK -> amg/mmg or zerg for keeps.

NF can handle all playstyles. Just get a boat to a "fixed" location 4 example DC southeast bridge an do what you do at amg 🤔
On NF you can react faster on situations because of the boats and teleports. And don't have to run for 30mins through 3 maps to get to a border keep or get to some level spot.

Please we are not 15 anymore. You can QQ or MiMiMi as much you can but think about the fun you can have, if the server has a solid population and rvr health.

And NF and OF has the same Zerg because that's what the game shouldnbe. ----> MMORPG!!

Just my 2 cents.

Keep the good work @DEVs

If we have a solid rvr base we can all have great hours months or years here

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:33 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

You know kissing their butts just cuz they added NF for a week doesn't guarantee that the changes will be permanent. All I see out of these NF fan bois is insulting people who like OF even though that is what we all literally started playing here for. So you think it's okay just to change server vision out of nowhere after people put many many hours into this expecting a proper classic vision with QOL? I think it's wrong to do that. NF peeps insulting OF peeps meanwhile OF players are just complaining about NF and not blaming the players. So one side of this is the one being immature and calling peopel cry babies. Why not go play live if you enjoy zerging so much. And it's a lie to say NF is better for solo. You guys were just too lazy to go to the off task zones if you were seriously expecting a solo fight.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:33 PM by Tokajer

stormbrewer wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:06 PM
I thought of an idea that could make everyone happy, I think. Give the people that like OF a level 50 BG, and keep NF. Then the players that like OF can have somewhere to go and rvr, and the players that like NF can go there to rvr. Watcha guys think of this idea?

There is a map ! EV 😅 there they can run in circles from one milegate to the next milegate 😂😂

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:39 PM by labova

Does it have to be one or the other? Could it be possible to alternate as a compromise? Or is that just too confusing?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:43 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

The compromise IMO would be NF like twice a year as an event or 3 days every few months.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:43 PM by Draygon

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:33 PM
You know kissing their butts just cuz they added NF for a week doesn't guarantee that the changes will be permanent. All I see out of these NF fan bois is insulting people who like OF even though that is what we all literally started playing here for. So you think it's okay just to change server vision out of nowhere after people put many many hours into this expecting a proper classic vision with QOL? I think it's wrong to do that. NF peeps insulting OF peeps meanwhile OF players are just complaining about NF and not blaming the players. So one side of this is the one being immature and calling peopel cry babies. Why not go play live if you enjoy zerging so much. And it's a lie to say NF is better for solo. You guys were just too lazy to go to the off task zones if you were seriously expecting a solo fight.

NF is far better for solo, be it visi or stealther.

Also, there are plenty of OF "fan bois" as you lamely put it, that are insulting those of us that like NF. The thing is if you take a step back and really look at it, you get everything in NF that you got in OF, minus the choke points. That is the problem with most OF people is they want the chokepoints for easy RPs. NF makes you work a bit for them and that is the problem people are having, they got used to easy mode and are having a hissyfit about it.

To say you arent going to play just because there is a change made, is also immature to do. There have been many changes made to this server that I havent liked or agreed with but I havent quit because well...there is only one other option and we all know how terrible that is/was, so this is what we have no, like it or not. If there is a change you dont like you learn to adapt and go with it.

Your "proper classic" version was dead as soon as beta was over and they decided to put NF RAs in, btw.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:46 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

I have gotten like 1 solo fight so far, been completely perma zerged since NF came out so anyone saying it's good for a solo visible must have had some incredible luck or they went far out of the way to get one so yeah nice big fat time sinks, the very thing that made uthgard complete rubbish. So far all I can tell is people for NF = zergers so don't go around saying it's good for solo visible, the only way you can do anything as a visible is if you are tower humping which is still essentially zerging, or to play a speed 6 character.

WHY not just add a NF style BG like cathal valley? We can funnel the zergers into there and have OF for 8 mans/smallman and solo.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:52 PM by Draygon

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:46 PM
I have gotten like 1 solo fight so far, been completely perma zerged since NF came out so anyone saying it's good for a solo visible must have had some incredible luck or they went far out of the way to get one so yeah nice big fat time sinks, the very thing that made uthgard complete rubbish. So far all I can tell is people for NF = zergers so don't go around saying it's good for solo visible, the only way you can do anything as a visible is if you are tower humping which is still essentially zerging, or to play a speed 6 character.

Funny cause Ive been out in the frontiers for most of the time Ive played since it was set to NF. I have been killed a total of 6 times while I was xping on my Theurg and not actively looking for RvR action. On the other hand when I have gone out and played on my Friar I have found action anytime I have wanted as long as you are paying attention to the map and knowing where the zergs are. Its all about situational awareness.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:52 PM by Ashenspire

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:46 PM
I have gotten like 1 solo fight so far, been completely perma zerged since NF came out so anyone saying it's good for a solo visible must have had some incredible luck or they went far out of the way to get one so yeah nice big fat time sinks, the very thing that made uthgard complete rubbish. So far all I can tell is people for NF = zergers so don't go around saying it's good for solo visible, the only way you can do anything as a visible is if you are tower humping which is still essentially zerging, or to play a speed 6 character.

So absolutely no different than what OF was? Turns out solo still isn't a thing in this game for non speed/stealth classes, just like it's always been when the frontiers are actually populated.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:57 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

If you can read back a few posts I explained that you actually can solo in OF, you would go to an off task zone. I had amazing 1 v 1s regularly in the off task zones with some awesome players, you know who you are! Anyways running to amg in emain seems to be the only thing people equate to soloing which you would be completely wrong. Btw there are some fantastic spots to solo in emain, you hide in bushes in spots where assassins travel etc and the fact is that OF isn't that bad of a time sink with keep porting. They had it down with keep porting before this bizarre change to NF.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:02 PM by cere2

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:46 PM
I have gotten like 1 solo fight so far, been completely perma zerged since NF came out so anyone saying it's good for a solo visible must have had some incredible luck or they went far out of the way to get one so yeah nice big fat time sinks, the very thing that made uthgard complete rubbish. So far all I can tell is people for NF = zergers so don't go around saying it's good for solo visible, the only way you can do anything as a visible is if you are tower humping which is still essentially zerging, or to play a speed 6 character.

WHY not just add a NF style BG like cathal valley? We can funnel the zergers into there and have OF for 8 mans/smallman and solo.

I think you are cutting a fat one here. The zerg is known in NF, everyone knows where they are at pretty much at all times. That is what is nice about the /RW.
Saying you got zerged all day is quite difficult to believe unless you either

A. Ported to a keep under attack by another zerg.
or
B. Were in a group trying to peel some off the zerg and got caught.

Otherwise you have to actually head to where the zerg is to accomplish that.
If you are referring to being run over by fg's in NF and not getting run over by fg's in OF, then obviously you went to the bow/duel sections of OF.
And that would also be a thing in NF given time.
For those that solo and want to have more places to solo than in between apk and amg, NF seems to be a better fit. The off-task zones you refer to are essentially the same 10-15 people bow/duel zone. I'll pass on that.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:03 PM by nyght999

Draygon wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:43 PM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:33 PM
You know kissing their butts just cuz they added NF for a week doesn't guarantee that the changes will be permanent. All I see out of these NF fan bois is insulting people who like OF even though that is what we all literally started playing here for. So you think it's okay just to change server vision out of nowhere after people put many many hours into this expecting a proper classic vision with QOL? I think it's wrong to do that. NF peeps insulting OF peeps meanwhile OF players are just complaining about NF and not blaming the players. So one side of this is the one being immature and calling peopel cry babies. Why not go play live if you enjoy zerging so much. And it's a lie to say NF is better for solo. You guys were just too lazy to go to the off task zones if you were seriously expecting a solo fight.

NF is far better for solo, be it visi or stealther.

Also, there are plenty of OF "fan bois" as you lamely put it, that are insulting those of us that like NF. The thing is if you take a step back and really look at it, you get everything in NF that you got in OF, minus the choke points. That is the problem with most OF people is they want the chokepoints for easy RPs. NF makes you work a bit for them and that is the problem people are having, they got used to easy mode and are having a hissyfit about it.

To say you arent going to play just because there is a change made, is also immature to do. There have been many changes made to this server that I havent liked or agreed with but I havent quit because well...there is only one other option and we all know how terrible that is/was, so this is what we have no, like it or not. If there is a change you dont like you learn to adapt and go with it.

Your "proper classic" version was dead as soon as beta was over and they decided to put NF RAs in, btw.

Some of us don't like NF just because of what it is. Towers, no thanks. Keeps, no thanks. Boat rides that are boring as hell, no thanks. Overall look and design of the the nf zones, no thanks. I tried it back when it went live, hated it then, hate it now. There is no need to test, give it a chance, try to adapt. My answer is no, nf isn't for me. No matter how people spin it or try to come up with something else to say the answer will always be no. If they stated this was a nf server at the start, I wouldn't have even looked at it. I came here for classic OF, that is what I like, that is why I came here. Take that away, I'm out. I'll find something else. Back in 2004 I gave a detailed explanation why it shouldn't go live, it was ignored. So I immediately canceled my account and never looked back. Same as I'll do here if nf stays.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:07 PM by Galandor

nyght999 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:03 PM
Draygon wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:43 PM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:33 PM
You know kissing their butts just cuz they added NF for a week doesn't guarantee that the changes will be permanent. All I see out of these NF fan bois is insulting people who like OF even though that is what we all literally started playing here for. So you think it's okay just to change server vision out of nowhere after people put many many hours into this expecting a proper classic vision with QOL? I think it's wrong to do that. NF peeps insulting OF peeps meanwhile OF players are just complaining about NF and not blaming the players. So one side of this is the one being immature and calling peopel cry babies. Why not go play live if you enjoy zerging so much. And it's a lie to say NF is better for solo. You guys were just too lazy to go to the off task zones if you were seriously expecting a solo fight.

NF is far better for solo, be it visi or stealther.

Also, there are plenty of OF "fan bois" as you lamely put it, that are insulting those of us that like NF. The thing is if you take a step back and really look at it, you get everything in NF that you got in OF, minus the choke points. That is the problem with most OF people is they want the chokepoints for easy RPs. NF makes you work a bit for them and that is the problem people are having, they got used to easy mode and are having a hissyfit about it.

To say you arent going to play just because there is a change made, is also immature to do. There have been many changes made to this server that I havent liked or agreed with but I havent quit because well...there is only one other option and we all know how terrible that is/was, so this is what we have no, like it or not. If there is a change you dont like you learn to adapt and go with it.

Your "proper classic" version was dead as soon as beta was over and they decided to put NF RAs in, btw.

Some of us don't like NF just because of what it is. Towers, no thanks. Keeps, no thanks. Boat rides that are boring as hell, no thanks. Overall look and design of the the nf zones, no thanks. I tried it back when it went live, hated it then, hate it now. There is no need to test, give it a chance, try to adapt. My answer is no, nf isn't for me. No matter how people spin it or try to come up with something else to say the answer will always be no. If they stated this was a nf server at the start, I wouldn't have even looked at it. I came here for classic OF, that is what I like, that is why I came here. Take that away, I'm out. I'll find something else. Back in 2004 I gave a detailed explanation why it shouldn't go live, it was ignored. So I immediately canceled my account and never looked back. Same as I'll do here if nf stays.

Bye.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:10 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

You sound exactly like the hold outs that Uthgard has who told everybody to get lost because we didn't like the crappy time sinks. Guess what, Uthgard has like 3 people playing now.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:10 PM by cere2

nyght999 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:03 PM
Draygon wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:43 PM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:33 PM
You know kissing their butts just cuz they added NF for a week doesn't guarantee that the changes will be permanent. All I see out of these NF fan bois is insulting people who like OF even though that is what we all literally started playing here for. So you think it's okay just to change server vision out of nowhere after people put many many hours into this expecting a proper classic vision with QOL? I think it's wrong to do that. NF peeps insulting OF peeps meanwhile OF players are just complaining about NF and not blaming the players. So one side of this is the one being immature and calling peopel cry babies. Why not go play live if you enjoy zerging so much. And it's a lie to say NF is better for solo. You guys were just too lazy to go to the off task zones if you were seriously expecting a solo fight.

NF is far better for solo, be it visi or stealther.

Also, there are plenty of OF "fan bois" as you lamely put it, that are insulting those of us that like NF. The thing is if you take a step back and really look at it, you get everything in NF that you got in OF, minus the choke points. That is the problem with most OF people is they want the chokepoints for easy RPs. NF makes you work a bit for them and that is the problem people are having, they got used to easy mode and are having a hissyfit about it.

To say you arent going to play just because there is a change made, is also immature to do. There have been many changes made to this server that I havent liked or agreed with but I havent quit because well...there is only one other option and we all know how terrible that is/was, so this is what we have no, like it or not. If there is a change you dont like you learn to adapt and go with it.

Your "proper classic" version was dead as soon as beta was over and they decided to put NF RAs in, btw.

Some of us don't like NF just because of what it is. Towers, no thanks. Keeps, no thanks. Boat rides that are boring as hell, no thanks. Overall look and design of the the nf zones, no thanks. I tried it back when it went live, hated it then, hate it now. There is no need to test, give it a chance, try to adapt. My answer is no, nf isn't for me. No matter how people spin it or try to come up with something else to say the answer will always be no. If they stated this was a nf server at the start, I wouldn't have even looked at it. I came here for classic OF, that is what I like, that is why I came here. Take that away, I'm out. I'll find something else. Back in 2004 I gave a detailed explanation why it shouldn't go live, it was ignored. So I immediately canceled my account and never looked back. Same as I'll do here if nf stays.

It's good to see so many people giving things a try. How many of us that used to play Live "after" NF came out, came back to try this out. I would venture quite a lot. Most of us knew OF sucked, but gave it a whirl anyhow. I compare this to my 5 year old self that hated broccoli. Now that I have matured I love it. If I had only tried it once I would still have my same 5 yr old mentality. Luckily for some, with time comes wisdom.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:11 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

I would equate NF to a turd with sprinkles on it if I was to channel my inner 5 year old.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:12 PM by cere2

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:10 PM
You sound exactly like the hold outs that Uthgard has who told everybody to get lost because we didn't like the crappy time sinks. Guess what, Uthgard has like 3 people playing now.

I heard they are sticking with OF maps...and classic server rules! I heard masses of people are about to flood their gates....

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:13 PM by dreginkt

tena6ous wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:12 AM
dreginkt wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Jun 2019 11:08 PM
Ok my review-

New Frontiers - 3/10 - DAOC live took a huge dive with ToA and then NF, not sure why we are trying to mimic that failure
8v8- difficult, a lot of zerging out with limited spots to find 8v8 action. We avoided zergs and ran almost an hour last night with no 8v8s to include the middle island.
Solo/Duo as a skald- Impossible, fg+ everywhere or large amount of stealth at all areas where we knew we would find fights. You will pretty much always be ganked near a bridge or dock. Hibs as usual are impossible to escape due to instant amnesia with cruise missile range. You are free rps trying to run solo/duo and even small man at prime hours.
Zerg/Keep- The name of the game and hibs will be dominant due to their class builds. Difficult to do anything but this in NF successfully. Hibs will own the game while Pilzerg is on and Mids will do well with Grumpy online (plays far less than Pilz). Not sure who organizes Albs but they seem to lag when it comes to keeps due to organization rather than numbers.

Old Frontiers - 7/10 - Improvements can be made to make these frontiers better
8v8- Hardians or Breifine you can almost always find some. Emain will be heavy so be careful.
Solo/Duo Can do it in all realms easily, might get ganked around mile gates or on roads so cross mile gates when others do and dont travel on the roads but to the side.
Zerg/Keep- Generally in Emain or task keep areas. Can be avoided easily.

If NF becomes the permanent RvR method I will likely bow out all in all, it will turn into zerg only fights or stealth zerg fights with a handful of 8's until pop dies down to just the 8s then meh.

ToA and NF didn't killed DAoC. DAoC took a dive in pop because of WoW which reach way more people with its content, even if WoW was hardcore.. Don't forget the fact that DAoC has always gathered niche players... People always say that players had gone to WoW because of ToA/NF and never actually considered the fact that WoW simply overcomed DAoC with much richer contents and a well known universe that players were enjoying. So please end this false statment that we're here replicating a old mythic failure, this is just false.
As a casual player that would only play few hours a week, I took me 2 years to have all my ML artifacts and whatsoever. And I've been enjoying this even with this level of difficulty ! ToA despite is difficulty was a great expansion to me. And so was NF which enabled me to solo play in RvR with a theurgist, which was merely impossible in OF.

You said that duo skald in NF is impossible ? Whew...
I played last evening prime time an alb duo (minstrel/reaver) and we've enjoying this pretty much roaming on Emain. We had to be careful of avoiding roaming groups but we've manage to roam and have some fights, even using crauchon bridges...
Solo/duo can be difficult for any class that has no bard/skald/minst speed. But seeing you complaining while playing skald is a bit ridiculous to me Skald has everything you need for solo/duo !
How could you manage to solo/duo in OF and not beeing able to do it in NF ?

Of course we took instant amnesias too, but whatever, this shit happen in OF too, so I don't get why you would say this is due to NF..

It's funny how you end up explaining how to avoid problem in OF. You're basically saying that you had the same problems on OF and knew the solutions. Have you even tried to find solutions for NF ?
I think with some time you could get used to NF and find how to play it, NF is easier, but it's different, so you have to find new way to work with it !

You somehow took my review personally and are asking for more information so sure.

WoW did contribute to player decline in DAOC, that is fact but nothing like ToA/NF did. All of the guilds I knew who ran regularly had stopped within a few months of release and consolidated until one or two guilds and then the clusters came. If you were in just the casual scene then I do not expect you to have seen the population decline in the players who were always on and talking about the state of the game. The players I knew who loved the DAOC RvR also rejected WoW because the PvP in WoW was awful at release and raiding was not what these kinds of players wanted.

Your next comment was more of a gameplay whine, this would be difficult for you to understand and difficult for me to convey without large amounts of character data to compare with OF data so I'll skip this for now.

It's unfortunate you're comfortable with being an amnesia farming cow and running out there again and again but the difference here is the terrain. In OF it was much easier to spot incoming and straight line / LOS turn the other direction to avoid the insta amnesia but here it has been much more difficult due to how the terrain is and how populated the map is with towers/keeps. I did not "basically say" I had the same problems in OF and knew solutions. There is a massive instant amnesia thread for a reason and it appears to be more difficult to face in NF than in OF and this will not be mitigated until we see a range decrease in instant amnesia or some other mechanic change.

If you don't like the review, it's fine, write your own with cons and pros just like the other people trying to provide feedback.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:14 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

I doubt anybody wants to go back to Uthgard, my point is every once popular server can fail and fail hard. I really hope this server doesn't pull a Uthgard also, they had a good thing going.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:15 PM by nyght999

cere2 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:10 PM
nyght999 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:03 PM
Draygon wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:43 PM
NF is far better for solo, be it visi or stealther.

Also, there are plenty of OF "fan bois" as you lamely put it, that are insulting those of us that like NF. The thing is if you take a step back and really look at it, you get everything in NF that you got in OF, minus the choke points. That is the problem with most OF people is they want the chokepoints for easy RPs. NF makes you work a bit for them and that is the problem people are having, they got used to easy mode and are having a hissyfit about it.

To say you arent going to play just because there is a change made, is also immature to do. There have been many changes made to this server that I havent liked or agreed with but I havent quit because well...there is only one other option and we all know how terrible that is/was, so this is what we have no, like it or not. If there is a change you dont like you learn to adapt and go with it.

Your "proper classic" version was dead as soon as beta was over and they decided to put NF RAs in, btw.

Some of us don't like NF just because of what it is. Towers, no thanks. Keeps, no thanks. Boat rides that are boring as hell, no thanks. Overall look and design of the the nf zones, no thanks. I tried it back when it went live, hated it then, hate it now. There is no need to test, give it a chance, try to adapt. My answer is no, nf isn't for me. No matter how people spin it or try to come up with something else to say the answer will always be no. If they stated this was a nf server at the start, I wouldn't have even looked at it. I came here for classic OF, that is what I like, that is why I came here. Take that away, I'm out. I'll find something else. Back in 2004 I gave a detailed explanation why it shouldn't go live, it was ignored. So I immediately canceled my account and never looked back. Same as I'll do here if nf stays.

It's good to see so many people giving things a try. How many of us that used to play Live "after" NF came out, came back to try this out. I would venture quite a lot. Most of us knew OF sucked, but gave it a whirl anyhow. I compare this to my 5 year old self that hated broccoli. Now that I have matured I love it. If I had only tried it once I would still have my same 5 yr old mentality. Luckily for some, with time comes wisdom.

I said I tried it when it went live. I gave it a chance then. It wasn't and will never be for me. Nf is just awful to me, even if its the best thing to others. I'm not going to waste any time on something I don't like.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:15 PM by Smilo

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:10 PM
You sound exactly like the hold outs that Uthgard has who told everybody to get lost because we didn't like the crappy time sinks. Guess what, Uthgard has like 3 people playing now.

They also have OF.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:16 PM by cere2

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:14 PM
I doubt anybody wants to go back to Uthgard, my point is every once popular server can fail and fail hard. I really hope this server doesn't pull a Uthgard also, they had a good thing going.

Didn't know Uthgard failed because they changed to NF. They didn't? Then tell me how you know for certain that changing to NF would ruin this server? Maybe it would for you, that I can tell, but maybe it would bring more back then those that leave...I guess only time will tell.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:17 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

This server had OF but with barely any timesinks and balanced new RA. It was soo much better than Uthgard. Saying that it's like Uthgard because of OF is silly, this place was a million times better than Uthgard was, they just need to stick to OF and keep it consistent.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:51 PM by BaldEagle

nyght999 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:03 PM
Draygon wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:43 PM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 7:33 PM
You know kissing their butts just cuz they added NF for a week doesn't guarantee that the changes will be permanent. All I see out of these NF fan bois is insulting people who like OF even though that is what we all literally started playing here for. So you think it's okay just to change server vision out of nowhere after people put many many hours into this expecting a proper classic vision with QOL? I think it's wrong to do that. NF peeps insulting OF peeps meanwhile OF players are just complaining about NF and not blaming the players. So one side of this is the one being immature and calling peopel cry babies. Why not go play live if you enjoy zerging so much. And it's a lie to say NF is better for solo. You guys were just too lazy to go to the off task zones if you were seriously expecting a solo fight.

NF is far better for solo, be it visi or stealther.

Also, there are plenty of OF "fan bois" as you lamely put it, that are insulting those of us that like NF. The thing is if you take a step back and really look at it, you get everything in NF that you got in OF, minus the choke points. That is the problem with most OF people is they want the chokepoints for easy RPs. NF makes you work a bit for them and that is the problem people are having, they got used to easy mode and are having a hissyfit about it.

To say you arent going to play just because there is a change made, is also immature to do. There have been many changes made to this server that I havent liked or agreed with but I havent quit because well...there is only one other option and we all know how terrible that is/was, so this is what we have no, like it or not. If there is a change you dont like you learn to adapt and go with it.

Your "proper classic" version was dead as soon as beta was over and they decided to put NF RAs in, btw.

Some of us don't like NF just because of what it is. Towers, no thanks. Keeps, no thanks. Boat rides that are boring as hell, no thanks. Overall look and design of the the nf zones, no thanks. I tried it back when it went live, hated it then, hate it now. There is no need to test, give it a chance, try to adapt. My answer is no, nf isn't for me. No matter how people spin it or try to come up with something else to say the answer will always be no. If they stated this was a nf server at the start, I wouldn't have even looked at it. I came here for classic OF, that is what I like, that is why I came here. Take that away, I'm out. I'll find something else. Back in 2004 I gave a detailed explanation why it shouldn't go live, it was ignored. So I immediately canceled my account and never looked back. Same as I'll do here if nf stays.

So basically you just want a battleground.

It seems the ones most adamant about OF like it because it is basically a team deathmatch in Emain. There is nothing wrong with that, but let's call it what it is. It is not that they actually like true classic daoc, because what is currently going on in Phoenix on OF, is not classic daoc rvr.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 9:30 PM by Gotmagi

As a solo visi, what I can say so far about NF is.. holy coast guard. Just like good old times on live

Wed 12 Jun 2019 9:30 PM by Deekina

You devs have dropped the ball with the strength and range of the keep guards. You get people staying close to keeps and if you engage you get hit for big damage. I took on a druid on my hunter and appeared to get one shot, then I saw the damage: two rangers hitting for 362 and two guardians for 140, even though they were all not in close proximity.

We want to fight PLAYERS, not fucking red con guards from lame campers. Sort this shit out.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:13 PM by pollojack

So, as the bridges and ports become better known the stealth zergers become more apparent, OF was still worse in this regard. A group needing SoS to get by the gate, compared to a solo that needs it just to hop over and it only lasts three seconds.

I am still getting one on one action and people are more respectful about adding. That being said, alb necros and scouts are still major adders.

I was able to stick to the outskirts of the zerg v zerg and get a kill or two, actually participate instead of OF where I had no opportunities as the action required speed to be near, all the other keeps in OF that weren't near AMG might as well have not existed to a solo NS.

The breathing room is much nicer in NF. There isn't a parade of necros, not to say they aren't there but man OF usually had one to three necros patrolling between AMG and APK to add to any fight that was happening. It was so bad I got The Empty Mind just to deal with them. Seriously considering dropping TEM since I haven't had to fight necros as often.

TL

R if you like to add, OF is the place to be. If you like less zergy fights with a little bit of honor, NF is your jam. Different people have different playstyles but that is what it comes down to. Do you hold yourself back or are you an anything to win person?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:14 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

Deekina wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 9:30 PM
You devs have dropped the ball with the strength and range of the keep guards. You get people staying close to keeps and if you engage you get hit for big damage. I took on a druid on my hunter and appeared to get one shot, then I saw the damage: two rangers hitting for 362 and two guardians for 140, even though they were all not in close proximity.

We want to fight PLAYERS, not fucking red con guards from lame campers. Sort this shit out.

Lol that was probably me, was he a firby druid with red cloak? I thought it was kinda strange that you two hunters attacked me 10 feet from the ranger guards..

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:18 PM by Anelyn77

Gotmagi wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 9:30 PM
As a solo visi, what I can say so far about NF is.. holy coast guard. Just like good old times on live

See you out there Gotmagi! I need to return that /hug (near mpk, my RR2 huntress) with my healer!

/Bnotashamed ThatYouGotMezzd

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:19 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

Another guy saying you can't 1 v 1 in OF yet referencing AMG emain, is that really the best way you can think to 1 v 1 in OF?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:27 PM by Joc

I hope NF stays. Easier to find good fights, less zergy for the most part, less choke points, and more flavor.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:33 PM by NoExit

Maybe we miss the proper Location but imo there is no smallman/duo Action (The total war on docks/bridges has nothing to do with small man for me),
even Uppland/Snow/.. has no Action beside lowbies (8 hours NF = 2 fights vs. duo´s)
Mostly we got bashed by 8man or 8+8 or some other shady gangs as soon as we enter Bled or Beno Area.
Sorry but NF seems ridiculous for me on EU Prime Time compared to OF.
With OF we could avoid the 8man stuff and we got way more good fights.

NF = -1 or -2

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:36 PM by Hector

Last night during NA time I watched a Twitch stream of a full group roaming NF mindlessly with only 1 inc. There was way too much empty space to consider leaving NF in permanently. Maybe it works during EU time, but it will kill NA very quickly.

Let's face reality here... it is summer, the "try it out" people that bounce from DAoC shard to DAoC shard have come and gone, this is normal and does not require an overreaction. In September, numbers will pick back up. So long as you maintain the vision you had during beta (which I fear you've lost recently with these impulsive changes), you will have your ~1,000 players.

It's slightly off topic (but I think it's relevant to the discussion since OF vs NF seems to be centered around population maintenance) but it's important to note that the seemingly impulsive changes are harmful to the server. You allowed people to get to rr11 within the first 3-4 months of this server launching, and then you abruptly changed the RvR tasks to make it harder for younger rr players to catch up. You are creating the exact imbalance and up-hill issue that plagued Uthgard.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:51 PM by broalition

you would think with all the revolution thats happened here, that they would have created a brand new frontier zone - stop copying of live - be original.

you call some of yourselves world buildiers, maybe you should change that to world copiers.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:53 PM by jhaerik

Hector wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:36 PM
Last night during NA time I watched a Twitch stream of a full group roaming NF mindlessly with only 1 inc. There was way too much empty space to consider leaving NF in permanently. Maybe it works during EU time, but it will kill NA very quickly.

Let's face reality here... it is summer, the "try it out" people that bounce from DAoC shard to DAoC shard have come and gone, this is normal and does not require an overreaction. In September, numbers will pick back up. So long as you maintain the vision you had during beta (which I fear you've lost recently with these impulsive changes), you will have your ~1,000 players.

It's slightly off topic (but I think it's relevant to the discussion since OF vs NF seems to be centered around population maintenance) but it's important to note that the seemingly impulsive changes are harmful to the server. You allowed people to get to rr11 within the first 3-4 months of this server launching, and then you abruptly changed the RvR tasks to make it harder for younger rr players to catch up. You are creating the exact imbalance and up-hill issue that plagued Uthgard.

Lets face it the same "it's summer" argument was used on Uthgard as well.

Truth is players that leave don't come back. Population decrease on freeshards is generally an accelerating spiral. More people leave as action dies more and more. The Phoenix team messed up pretty badly by constantly changing things that didn't need changed. They gained zero new players with their changes, but lost more and more each time a change was made. While some changes from time to time might be necessary Phoenix has been been patched like a damn seasonal MOBA with a player base that was looking for a slightly more modern take on classic DAoC. What we got was an unending beta where the entire damn game changed from week to week. People got fed up with it and left.

Personally I went back to BR games, MOBAs, and getting my PvE kick on some P1999 EQ. Also replaying some single player RPG classics.

It's really just time to accept reality on this one folks. They blew it, and DAoC has pretty much died with it. I'd recommend looking for a new game.

Also if you want to see the correct way to run a vintage freeshard... look at Project 1999 EQ. That server has been running for 10 years now. It still maintains a higher population than NA time Phoenix does. They very rarely patch, and when they do it's only to prevent major abuses, or things that upset the vast majority of the player base. Not 5 guys who won't shut the hell up on the forums. When they make a change it's months in the works and is almost unanimously loved by the player base.

They are also releasing a new server in October where they plan to progress through the patches of EQ and it's first two expansion.

Seriously. See this timeline? https://wiki.project1999.com/EverQuest_Timeline THAT is how you patch a classic server.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:02 PM by BaldEagle

Hector wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:36 PM
Last night during NA time I watched a Twitch stream of a full group roaming NF mindlessly with only 1 inc. There was way too much empty space to consider leaving NF in permanently. Maybe it works during EU time, but it will kill NA very quickly.

Let's face reality here... it is summer, the "try it out" people that bounce from DAoC shard to DAoC shard have come and gone, this is normal and does not require an overreaction. In September, numbers will pick back up. So long as you maintain the vision you had during beta (which I fear you've lost recently with these impulsive changes), you will have your ~1,000 players.

It's slightly off topic (but I think it's relevant to the discussion since OF vs NF seems to be centered around population maintenance) but it's important to note that the seemingly impulsive changes are harmful to the server. You allowed people to get to rr11 within the first 3-4 months of this server launching, and then you abruptly changed the RvR tasks to make it harder for younger rr players to catch up. You are creating the exact imbalance and up-hill issue that plagued Uthgard.

Link twitch stream. I'd love to look back and find where they were roaming.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:11 PM by Deekina

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:14 PM
Deekina wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 9:30 PM
You devs have dropped the ball with the strength and range of the keep guards. You get people staying close to keeps and if you engage you get hit for big damage. I took on a druid on my hunter and appeared to get one shot, then I saw the damage: two rangers hitting for 362 and two guardians for 140, even though they were all not in close proximity.

We want to fight PLAYERS, not fucking red con guards from lame campers. Sort this shit out.

Lol that was probably me, was he a firby druid with red cloak? I thought it was kinda strange that you two hunters attacked me 10 feet from the ranger guards..

Yes, it must have been you. There was I thinking I'd kill you then suddenly I took about 800 damage from guards. :-(

Those guards hit harder than I expected. When that first hunter engaged I expected us to kill you.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:11 PM by cere2

Hector wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:36 PM
Last night during NA time I watched a Twitch stream of a full group roaming NF mindlessly with only 1 inc. There was way too much empty space to consider leaving NF in permanently. Maybe it works during EU time, but it will kill NA very quickly.

Let's face reality here... it is summer, the "try it out" people that bounce from DAoC shard to DAoC shard have come and gone, this is normal and does not require an overreaction. In September, numbers will pick back up. So long as you maintain the vision you had during beta (which I fear you've lost recently with these impulsive changes), you will have your ~1,000 players.

It's slightly off topic (but I think it's relevant to the discussion since OF vs NF seems to be centered around population maintenance) but it's important to note that the seemingly impulsive changes are harmful to the server. You allowed people to get to rr11 within the first 3-4 months of this server launching, and then you abruptly changed the RvR tasks to make it harder for younger rr players to catch up. You are creating the exact imbalance and up-hill issue that plagued Uthgard.

How long did you watch? Because unless they were on some other server I call BS. NA prime time had a ton of action last night, I know because that's when I played. If they couldn't find anyone it was obviously on purpose. There was 8 mans smallmans solos in every realm. Hib zerg, Alb zerg, Mid zerg. Each attacking and defending keeps towers etc.

I guess I could say the same if I ran a circle just outside of Cain in OF.....
Dude, I ran around for 6 hours and only had 1 inc! Game is dead! Unbelievable....
Oh and I am happy you know the future of the server so well too, numbers will pick up in fall.....unless!!!!! You change to NF, then its dead!
Kinda funny after reading it again. Especially the EQ part....

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:12 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

Deekina wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:11 PM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:14 PM
Deekina wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 9:30 PM
You devs have dropped the ball with the strength and range of the keep guards. You get people staying close to keeps and if you engage you get hit for big damage. I took on a druid on my hunter and appeared to get one shot, then I saw the damage: two rangers hitting for 362 and two guardians for 140, even though they were all not in close proximity.

We want to fight PLAYERS, not fucking red con guards from lame campers. Sort this shit out.

Lol that was probably me, was he a firby druid with red cloak? I thought it was kinda strange that you two hunters attacked me 10 feet from the ranger guards..

Yes, it must have been you. There was I thinking I'd kill you then suddenly I took about 800 damage from guards. :-(

Those guards hit harder than I expected. When that first hunter engaged I expected us to kill you.

Lol those archer guards are op definitely, they saved me somehow 0_o

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:38 PM by cuuchulain79

Hector wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:36 PM
... You allowed people to get to rr11 within the first 3-4 months of this server launching, and then you abruptly changed the RvR tasks to make it harder for younger rr players to catch up. You are creating the exact imbalance and up-hill issue that plagued Uthgard.

I agree that RvR tasks are worth less now, but c'mon...you're going to blame Phoenix & Uthgard just b/c a minority of people have 12+ hours a day to devote to farming realm points? Every new server will have this 'plague' until one implements an evolving cap on realm rank.

The paradigm of "catching up" to people who can devote 80% of their waking life to a video game is flawed.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:43 PM by florin

cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:38 PM
Hector wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:36 PM
... You allowed people to get to rr11 within the first 3-4 months of this server launching, and then you abruptly changed the RvR tasks to make it harder for younger rr players to catch up. You are creating the exact imbalance and up-hill issue that plagued Uthgard.

I agree that RvR tasks are worth less now, but c'mon...you're going to blame Phoenix & Uthgard just b/c a minority of people have 12+ hours a day to devote to farming realm points? Every new server will have this 'plague' until one implements an evolving cap on realm rank.

The paradigm of "catching up" to people who can devote 80% of their waking life to a video game is flawed.

While you have a solid point - the suicide task system greatly accelerated this process. There are people proud to have leveled by suiciding to mediocre rank 11 sbs

Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:05 AM by

gruenesschaf

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:53 PM
Hector wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:36 PM
Last night during NA time I watched a Twitch stream of a full group roaming NF mindlessly with only 1 inc. There was way too much empty space to consider leaving NF in permanently. Maybe it works during EU time, but it will kill NA very quickly.

Let's face reality here... it is summer, the "try it out" people that bounce from DAoC shard to DAoC shard have come and gone, this is normal and does not require an overreaction. In September, numbers will pick back up. So long as you maintain the vision you had during beta (which I fear you've lost recently with these impulsive changes), you will have your ~1,000 players.

It's slightly off topic (but I think it's relevant to the discussion since OF vs NF seems to be centered around population maintenance) but it's important to note that the seemingly impulsive changes are harmful to the server. You allowed people to get to rr11 within the first 3-4 months of this server launching, and then you abruptly changed the RvR tasks to make it harder for younger rr players to catch up. You are creating the exact imbalance and up-hill issue that plagued Uthgard.

Lets face it the same "it's summer" argument was used on Uthgard as well.

Truth is players that leave don't come back. Population decrease on freeshards is generally an accelerating spiral. More people leave as action dies more and more. The Phoenix team messed up pretty badly by constantly changing things that didn't need changed. They gained zero new players with their changes, but lost more and more each time a change was made. While some changes from time to time might be necessary Phoenix has been been patched like a damn seasonal MOBA with a player base that was looking for a slightly more modern take on classic DAoC. What we got was an unending beta where the entire damn game changed from week to week. People got fed up with it and left.

Personally I went back to BR games, MOBAs, and getting my PvE kick on some P1999 EQ. Also replaying some single player RPG classics.

It's really just time to accept reality on this one folks. They blew it, and DAoC has pretty much died with it. I'd recommend looking for a new game.

Also if you want to see the correct way to run a vintage freeshard... look at Project 1999 EQ. That server has been running for 10 years now. It still maintains a higher population than NA time Phoenix does. They very rarely patch, and when they do it's only to prevent major abuses, or things that upset the vast majority of the player base. Not 5 guys who won't shut the hell up on the forums. When they make a change it's months in the works and is almost unanimously loved by the player base.

They are also releasing a new server in October where they plan to progress through the patches of EQ and it's first two expansion.

Seriously. See this timeline? https://wiki.project1999.com/EverQuest_Timeline THAT is how you patch a classic server.

You should maybe take a look at the actual stats. You can / could see with uthgard what happens when you do nothing at all when the pop starts to drop. You can see here what happens when you start doing changes when the pop drops, it's pretty much identical for the vast majority of the loss as the major reason for the initial drop after a couple month is / was exactly the same for both servers: many people were just trying it out and getting burned out / not finding what they remembered or actually remembered how it was at level 50.
Until the charge / buff change we had basically the same number of players as uthgard after the same amount of time, since that and the other changes the population loss has actually decreased slightly, is that because of those changes? Maybe for some, however, it certainly was not the dooms day change as many proclaim it to be.

Then there is wow in August, doing absolutely nothing and expecting to not drop lower in population is just wishful thinking. Is it risky in that any change might drive some people away? Absolutely, however, changes also have the potential to retain others that would have left for longer as all changes have the purpose to make it better in the end, not necessarily in the short term or completely without making someone unhappy, but still.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:13 AM by Keilli

NF is way big for our current population.

It takes way too long to find action and I have observed more folks are either not playing this week or have cut down on their playtime due to NF introduction. I think a perfect balance would be to keep OF, but allow NF keeps that allow for porting. Most people prefer to port to EMAIN, Odins or Hadrians and allowing the home team a port into those areas makes the game better and action flowing.

I am sorry but this week has been the least enjoyable week for me personally.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:17 AM by florin

The game has become quite unrewarding to play during NA late evenings. After dinner / kids asleep etc. even OF suffered but there was emain and the keep task that centralized fights.

During 3-8 pm EST - there is amazing action to the point that it needs to be spread out. So the system should be dynamic.

If we stick with NF, i recommend a daily/hourly time and population task or zone system to help during newly created off peak times. It could be as easy as opening a BG at certain times, or opening a port to EV.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:35 AM by Hector

cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:38 PM
Hector wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:36 PM
... You allowed people to get to rr11 within the first 3-4 months of this server launching, and then you abruptly changed the RvR tasks to make it harder for younger rr players to catch up. You are creating the exact imbalance and up-hill issue that plagued Uthgard.

I agree that RvR tasks are worth less now, but c'mon...you're going to blame Phoenix & Uthgard just b/c a minority of people have 12+ hours a day to devote to farming realm points? Every new server will have this 'plague' until one implements an evolving cap on realm rank.

The paradigm of "catching up" to people who can devote 80% of their waking life to a video game is flawed.

Same responses I used to hear on uthgard . Fool
Efke hit rank 11 fastest in freeshard history.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:37 AM by Durandal

Okay...It is very obvious that there is a huge split. This is something to be expected. Reading through the thread it is apparent that server population will take a hit. You are starting to see population levels dip sub 1000 at primetime, and I understand why switching things up is seen to have a positive effect. During the test there will be good action, but the real results are once everything settles and people become used to the new way things are done.

OF and NF are polar opposites. There is absolutely nothing similar between these two systems. They contrast greatly, but I see it like ying and yang. I actually think that this issue can be mitigated by merging the best of two systems. We've seen this when the old frontier keep system was overlaid with the new frontier portal system, which had great results. I've played DAoC for a significant time through both maps, through all upgrades.

The best way to go about this, where you will cater to all players is not so simple, but I think it will be effective and could be really fun...

Planetside 1 and 2 has a continent locking system, this serves the purpose to keep the scenery and gameplay changing. Esamir is very flat and open where as Amerish has lots of chokepoints and valleys. Once a victory condition is met, the winning faction is announced, and the spawn portal on the entire continent cease to function and the next continent is unlocked. In these games, continent switching is simple and the gameplay doesn't change too much between them, so you'll see them flip a few times per day. In DAoC, this is definitely not the case. They should not switch very often.

Victory conditions for OF and NF have to be different, as each map has drastic gameplay changes so it would not make sense to have the same victory condition for both.

Now these are just suggestions and may not be the best victory conditions possible, but a quick brainstorm that I have come up with.

OF Victory Condition: Realm holds 12 keeps, one relic from each realm, and has scored 10000+ kills, 300 solo kills. All conditions met simultaneously

NF Victory Condition: Realm holds all their keeps, has total control over EV, KM, and all it's towers, and a single enemy supply keep(beno,bled,crau), has scored 10000+ kills, 300 solo kills. All conditions met simultaneously

Like I said, the right conditions may be different, and could be adjusted. The winning realm could get some kind of bonus applied, and could even be given every single keep in the entire frontier map for the next time it is activated....Just some ideas, but I believe that both frontiers can be used with the right system in place.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:47 AM by vadox

This should not be NF vs OF thread and discussion. It is about constant changes that at first appeared quality of life improvements and loved by everyone and then became an endless task to adopt because QoL kept coming and changing, and no player wants to miss a boat in getting free rps, feathers, claws and what not.

Server had a great potential, and probably still does but this admin's quest to introduce shitload of things to people that wanted pre-TOA experience with some QoL but got a theme-park (something i've said before) instead...not my cup of tea. sorry.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:53 AM by kevha

I hate the nf please please bring back of 'im begging!!!!!

Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:59 AM by cuuchulain79

Hector, get as pissy as you want to at the server...but it sounds like ur jealous of the no-life-crew that can play all the time.

Dissect server settings all you want...what's the common factor between a RR10 zerker 7 months after launch, or a RR11 warden 4 months after launch? Hint: it's not a tan.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:04 AM by pollojack

Oh yeah, nerf the guards. Keep the ones after the first set of doors, pull the rangers back a bit, halve the first door hp, double the inner door hp. Make keep taking easier really, it is very static right now and being solo near one is suicide.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:10 AM by vvizard

So tired of Emain/Milegate farm style of OF, NF has my vote, Phoenix was never a Classic Server, Progression Server was my understanding and if your not Progressing your dead in the water same people that cry about NF bailed on Uthgard you see where it is now in the dumpster, would like to see a earlier Version of NF, with older bridge models and proper keep/tower placement having siege hook points and Siegecraft skill leveling, have dock trackers added or disable boats and force travel via Aggramon fulltime and relics placable in keeps again, keep PoC with Summoners Hall located inside with proper mobs inside, add epic mounts earnable , add rr5 ability and maybe a rr10 one , Add Enchanter options that allow you to enchant current armors with +to 26 cap stats and +10%Spell DMG, +10%Melee DMG, +10%Cast Speed, +10% Range, +10%Style DMG use the Spell Craft System to add these things, this way can just enchant current templates, Add new classes Mauler Warlock Banshee, Add Labyrinth and CL weapons.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:28 AM by lurker

Hector wrote:
cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 11:38 PM
Hector wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 10:36 PM
... You allowed people to get to rr11 within the first 3-4 months of this server launching, and then you abruptly changed the RvR tasks to make it harder for younger rr players to catch up. You are creating the exact imbalance and up-hill issue that plagued Uthgard.

I agree that RvR tasks are worth less now, but c'mon...you're going to blame Phoenix & Uthgard just b/c a minority of people have 12+ hours a day to devote to farming realm points? Every new server will have this 'plague' until one implements an evolving cap on realm rank.

The paradigm of "catching up" to people who can devote 80% of their waking life to a video game is flawed.

Same responses I used to hear on uthgard . Fool
Efke hit rank 11 fastest in freeshard history.

I know this is kind off-topic for the thread, sorry about that.
But thought it was interesting none the less:

Efke - RR11L0
9,029,565 RPs of which 933,549 are from tasks. 10.34% of his RPs are from tasks.

Phoneix has been running roughly for 24 weeks now. Which means that if tasks had not been in place he would and his play time continued he would bein exactly the same position in 2.4 weeks time. That said he has 0 RPs 'this week' and 'last week'. Im given to understand he has not been playing that character (or at all?) for a while now. So the likelihood is that this would have been an even lower time requirement to make up that gap. (e.g. only another 1-2 weeks play required at the point he stopped playing)

The fact of the matter is - Efke played a lot & Played a lot with an efficient group of players that maximised their RPs per hour. It had little to do with tasks.

Some other context:

Looking at the top 250 players by RP:
(https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/realmpoints)

- The average % of RPs gained by Tasks is 16.39%
- The lowest % of task RPs is held by - Hallibel Bard 10L9 <Dark Dawn> @ 7.27%
- The highest % of task RPs is held by - Sbrown Thane 8L3 <Elitest Jerkz> @ 37.77%

- There are 128 RR9+ players
- Including 46 RR10+ players
- Including 19 RR11+ players

Of the servers 19 RR11+ players the average % of Task RPs is significantly lower than the average of the 250 @ 11.58%

So it seems that the RR1 players benefited least from the task system - benefited more from their organisation - play time - skill(?) - etc. etc.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 2:18 AM by profoundtedium

vvizard wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:10 AM
So tired of Emain/Milegate farm style of OF, NF has my vote, Phoenix was never a Classic Server, Progression Server was my understanding and if your not Progressing your dead in the water same people that cry about NF bailed on Uthgard you see where it is now in the dumpster, would like to see a earlier Version of NF, with older bridge models and proper keep/tower placement having siege hook points and Siegecraft skill leveling, have dock trackers added or disable boats and force travel via Aggramon fulltime and relics placable in keeps again, keep PoC with Summoners Hall located inside with proper mobs inside, add epic mounts earnable , add rr5 ability and maybe a rr10 one , Add Enchanter options that allow you to enchant current armors with +to 26 cap stats and +10%Spell DMG, +10%Melee DMG, +10%Cast Speed, +10% Range, +10%Style DMG use the Spell Craft System to add these things, this way can just enchant current templates, Add new classes Mauler Warlock Banshee, Add Labyrinth and CL weapons.

Please point to the word Progression in the following sentence: "We have used patch 1.65 as the foundation and have made numerous class and game play adjustments, as well as, added Quality of Life features to make your playing experience much more enjoyable." In fact the words 'used', 'have made', and 'added' are past-tense, inferring it's done and settled.

What patch was NF? Oh yeah, https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.70

People bailed on Uthgard for a variety of reasons, but really, they failed because they promised SI since Uth1 and wiped people's years of progress for fucking NPC pathing, and still didn't deliver on SI. Uth1 lasted for many years before they wiped to try and make the server approachable to new players. That's the ultimate problem with the changes on Phoenix, NF included. It's not making the game approachable by those who haven't yet discovered Phoenix who would want a classic-done right throw back experience, and its unrecognizable to anyone who has started here, and will return on their own time.

This is a conservative vs. progressive issue. And I'm not talking right/left politics. There are people who want to conserve the integrity of a classic 1.65 feel, and there are those who want "progress" for the sake of "progress". Progressing the patch level of the server to the detriment of the community, and a future community that could be attracted, is self-defeating. If Old frontiers is boring to you, level a new character. Take a break. Play a different game. Don't be bored. But also don't ruin the magic of what 1.65 done right can offer, and keep on offering, to people other than yourself.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 3:09 AM by stetty

I personally like both frontier versions for different reasons. My main concern is that if you move from OF to NF, you'd might risk losing a lot of player base. However by keeping OF I don't anticipate nearly as much of a swing, if any, since people came to play OF anyway. Safer bet is to keep OF.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 3:23 AM by Krendos

cere2 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 8:10 PM
I compare this to my 5 year old self that hated broccoli. Now that I have matured I love it. If I had only tried it once I would still have my same 5 yr old mentality. Luckily for some, with time comes wisdom.

Wait, what? So you are immature if you don't like NF, yet mature and somehow don't have a 5 year old mentality if you like Broccoli?

Ok I get it now. This shit just all makes total sense.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 3:37 AM by vvizard

profoundtedium wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 2:18 AM
vvizard wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:10 AM
So tired of Emain/Milegate farm style of OF, NF has my vote, Phoenix was never a Classic Server, Progression Server was my understanding and if your not Progressing your dead in the water same people that cry about NF bailed on Uthgard you see where it is now in the dumpster, would like to see a earlier Version of NF, with older bridge models and proper keep/tower placement having siege hook points and Siegecraft skill leveling, have dock trackers added or disable boats and force travel via Aggramon fulltime and relics placable in keeps again, keep PoC with Summoners Hall located inside with proper mobs inside, add epic mounts earnable , add rr5 ability and maybe a rr10 one , Add Enchanter options that allow you to enchant current armors with +to 26 cap stats and +10%Spell DMG, +10%Melee DMG, +10%Cast Speed, +10% Range, +10%Style DMG use the Spell Craft System to add these things, this way can just enchant current templates, Add new classes Mauler Warlock Banshee, Add Labyrinth and CL weapons.

Please point to the word Progression in the following sentence: "We have used patch 1.65 as the foundation and have made numerous class and game play adjustments, as well as, added Quality of Life features to make your playing experience much more enjoyable." In fact the words 'used', 'have made', and 'added' are past-tense, inferring it's done and settled.

What patch was NF? Oh yeah, https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.70

People bailed on Uthgard for a variety of reasons, but really, they failed because they promised SI since Uth1 and wiped people's years of progress for fucking NPC pathing, and still didn't deliver on SI. Uth1 lasted for many years before they wiped to try and make the server approachable to new players. That's the ultimate problem with the changes on Phoenix, NF included. It's not making the game approachable by those who haven't yet discovered Phoenix who would want a classic-done right throw back experience, and its unrecognizable to anyone who has started here, and will return on their own time.

This is a conservative vs. progressive issue. And I'm not talking right/left politics. There are people who want to conserve the integrity of a classic 1.65 feel, and there are those who want "progress" for the sake of "progress". Progressing the patch level of the server to the detriment of the community, and a future community that could be attracted, is self-defeating. If Old frontiers is boring to you, level a new character. Take a break. Play a different game. Don't be bored. But also don't ruin the magic of what 1.65 done right can offer, and keep on offering, to people other than yourself.

We have used patch 1.65 as the foundation, Now go look up what Foundation means.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 3:58 AM by Halcyon702

NF will just relegate the playerbase to 3-4 hours of zerging and keep attempts, dropping precipitously afterwards.

OF maintains consistent population of dedicated players across most times, even NA can find group fights, solos, smalls, and the occasional 3-4 groups of late night keep flippers.

I suspect a server that only allows people to play according to the population spikes on EU prime will end quickly compared to the alternative.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 4:03 AM by pollojack

To add to that, complaining about high RR is dumb. It boils down to not wanting to fight people on an equal footing. With group sizes, class uniqueness, and starting sooner they also want to make it harder for new players to have higher RR and have more equal footing in the fight. We don't have RR5 abilities thankfully but RR5 armor/wep is significant, sooner new players have some decent RR, sooner they feel they lose because they need to get better not because it is unfair, the sooner they fully appreciate the server instead of burning out like uthgard.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 4:52 AM by labra

There is one thing I don't understand.

Many points that Uthgard was too restrictive and thay staff didn't listen to community.

Phoenix staff is actually listening and are willing to let player chose and yet you people complain...

Let NF test pass, be active on upcoming poll and let players decide if it's OF or NF.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:26 AM by inoeth

Runental wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:41 PM
Btw, how does Uthgard manage that so called client problem?

they do not use DOL

Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:30 AM by Arthoras

Ok day 3 was... I will not say fun.... but ya... it was fun.

I think I understand that strange map system now.
It is the same for solos as OF. Prevent main spot - go to sidespot. You see where the action is and go to a spot where you think the people are that are preventing that action. Example there is the greatest Zerg at Emain - so anyone ever reach the dock at DC. The Dock at NGed or the relict walls will be a good spot. That work really good for me yesterday. I was in emain on the bridges and in the near of the dock until it get to overcrowded (primetime starts) after that i went to midgard as planed yesterday to do some sightseeing.

That was really beautiful. I visited a blasted villiage and an area with wooden suspension bridge over cliffs, what was really cool. Sure there were no people, but i want to explore it. After that i went to the relic dock... that was intressting, but most of the players there were gray and i dont want to interrupt their leveling, so i went to glenlock dock. and there was a lot of fights and hide and seek games (one point for NF because hiding is much easier then in OF). Overall i found 14 or even 15 nice fights... sure not every fight was a win, there were vansih draws, adders and stupid mistakes that i did in fights, but that is not the fault of the map and happen in OF too.

Only the walking... and boating... the ways are so long... that not because of the size of map. I think this port comfort of OF had drive me lazy. But ya... I can live with it.

When I can repeat that for the rest of the test (to prove that it was not only luck), i am convinced that NF and OF are the same fun

Intresting observation: I had a really strange situation were i go overboard in the middle of nowhere and swam to land. There i found an Inf (i think it was Mcnasty), but I cant attack him and he cant attack me. So I did one emote and suddenly after that i was ported to the boattrip endpoint, as i never left the boat. Really strange.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:37 AM by cere2

profoundtedium wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 2:18 AM
vvizard wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:10 AM
So tired of Emain/Milegate farm style of OF, NF has my vote, Phoenix was never a Classic Server, Progression Server was my understanding and if your not Progressing your dead in the water same people that cry about NF bailed on Uthgard you see where it is now in the dumpster, would like to see a earlier Version of NF, with older bridge models and proper keep/tower placement having siege hook points and Siegecraft skill leveling, have dock trackers added or disable boats and force travel via Aggramon fulltime and relics placable in keeps again, keep PoC with Summoners Hall located inside with proper mobs inside, add epic mounts earnable , add rr5 ability and maybe a rr10 one , Add Enchanter options that allow you to enchant current armors with +to 26 cap stats and +10%Spell DMG, +10%Melee DMG, +10%Cast Speed, +10% Range, +10%Style DMG use the Spell Craft System to add these things, this way can just enchant current templates, Add new classes Mauler Warlock Banshee, Add Labyrinth and CL weapons.

Please point to the word Progression in the following sentence: "We have used patch 1.65 as the foundation and have made numerous class and game play adjustments, as well as, added Quality of Life features to make your playing experience much more enjoyable." In fact the words 'used', 'have made', and 'added' are past-tense, inferring it's done and settled.

What patch was NF? Oh yeah, https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.70

People bailed on Uthgard for a variety of reasons, but really, they failed because they promised SI since Uth1 and wiped people's years of progress for fucking NPC pathing, and still didn't deliver on SI. Uth1 lasted for many years before they wiped to try and make the server approachable to new players. That's the ultimate problem with the changes on Phoenix, NF included. It's not making the game approachable by those who haven't yet discovered Phoenix who would want a classic-done right throw back experience, and its unrecognizable to anyone who has started here, and will return on their own time.

This is a conservative vs. progressive issue. And I'm not talking right/left politics. There are people who want to conserve the integrity of a classic 1.65 feel, and there are those who want "progress" for the sake of "progress". Progressing the patch level of the server to the detriment of the community, and a future community that could be attracted, is self-defeating. If Old frontiers is boring to you, level a new character. Take a break. Play a different game. Don't be bored. But also don't ruin the magic of what 1.65 done right can offer, and keep on offering, to people other than yourself.

So you are saying new players cant "get" NF but they can OF? Hogwash. If anything new players should see OF as oh wow these graphics are trash lol. NF are not much better but atleast an upgrade. OF offers no strategy.

You are saying things that can be said for both OF and NF. You may think NF is a detriment to the community but it could be just the opposite for the server.

I hate OF, but atleast i tried it again for a few months. Only time will tell what helps this servers pop. But Uthgard stayed on the same patch for basically forever and you see how that is now.

Hopefully most can have an open mind for this week long test and votes should tell the story in the end. For those that must leave if NF is voted as winner there is always that classic Uthgard server they can turn to.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:46 AM by

gruenesschaf

inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:26 AM
Runental wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:41 PM
Btw, how does Uthgard manage that so called client problem?

they do not use DOL

DOL is the (base) server software, it has nothing to do with the client and Uthgard is also based on it.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:50 AM by inoeth

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:46 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:26 AM
Runental wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:41 PM
Btw, how does Uthgard manage that so called client problem?

they do not use DOL

DOL is the (base) server software, it has nothing to do with the client and Uthgard is also based on it.

maybe you are right but i remember them saying that DOL code sucks and they wanted to rewrite it completely thats also why they had to close their 1.0 server... still im not an expert on this terrain

Thu 13 Jun 2019 7:59 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

labra wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 4:52 AM
There is one thing I don't understand.

Many points that Uthgard was too restrictive and thay staff didn't listen to community.

Phoenix staff is actually listening and are willing to let player chose and yet you people complain...

Let NF test pass, be active on upcoming poll and let players decide if it's OF or NF.

They don't always listen, I made a post before about how druid pets are completely gimped and that the stun is garbage vs det tanks and lasts .001 seconds, besides that most of the builds in hib are un-viable and are just being ignored. Meanwhile alb and mid have gotten buff after buff after buff. I don't think the devs even have a hib character because it only takes like 30 minutes in hib to realize that the economy is way too expensive and everything is just more difficult than in alb and I assume mid (DS for instance) .
Btw race respec = 8 plat in alb and 40 plat in hib, everything is way more expensive in hib since Darkspire is more difficult.

Earth wiz got buffs
Friar got buffs
Savage gets stoicism and climb walls now
Hunter pet gets super speed now

Meanwhile my green nature druid pet and with 48 nature spec hits for 40 damage and stuns for .001 seconds isn't deserving of a buff for some reason, just seems like realm favoritism to me honestly. Hib in general needs some serious lovin' can't imagine a good reason not to buff some of the weaker lines in hib, maybe it's just an oversight but now it's brought to everybodies attention if that is the case! Or it's just to keep everybody as the same cookie cutter builds, who knows.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:15 AM by inoeth

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 7:59 AM
labra wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 4:52 AM
There is one thing I don't understand.

Many points that Uthgard was too restrictive and thay staff didn't listen to community.

Phoenix staff is actually listening and are willing to let player chose and yet you people complain...

Let NF test pass, be active on upcoming poll and let players decide if it's OF or NF.

They don't always listen, I made a post before about how druid pets are completely gimped and that the stun is garbage vs det tanks and lasts .001 seconds, besides that most of the builds in hib are un-viable and are just being ignored. Meanwhile alb and mid have gotten buff after buff after buff. I don't think the devs even have a hib character because it only takes like 30 minutes in hib to realize that the economy is way too expensive and everything is just more difficult than in alb and I assume mid (DS for instance) .
Btw race respec = 8 plat in alb and 40 plat in hib, everything is way more expensive in hib since Darkspire is more difficult.

Earth wiz got buffs
Friar got buffs
Savage gets stoicism and climb walls now
Hunter pet gets super speed now

Meanwhile my green nature druid pet and with 48 nature spec hits for 40 damage and stuns for .001 seconds isn't deserving of a buff for some reason, just seems like realm favoritism to me honestly. Hib in general needs some serious lovin' can't imagine a good reason not to buff some of the weaker lines in hib, maybe it's just an oversight but now it's brought to everybodies attention if that is the case! Or it's just to keep everybody as the same cookie cutter builds, who knows.

svg always had stoic lol... you ppl stop these stupid rumors svg was a hybrid!
hunter pet does not have superspeed

Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:16 AM by Runental

inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:26 AM
Runental wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 1:41 PM
Btw, how does Uthgard manage that so called client problem?

they do not use DOL

True, I forgot, they wrote their own code, thx for clarification

Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:38 AM by pax

My first experience of Daoc started this year around 4 days after this server released in Jan. I played only a Minstrel in Eu time, lunch 12-15 and after dinner 19-22; not always but in a pretty consistent way.
First day on NF i found myself leading an 8man without much success, always going around with a green\blue pet, when was good i got a yellow but else in 8man there is no time to go take a good pet for the min. That was putting my team always in disvantage because i couldn't use the pet to interrupt enemies, 2 spells and it was dying.

To be honest in the top 50 rps earn of the first 48h there was only 1 alb infiltrator and i was thinking that Albs got a disadvanga vs other realm in NF but was just an impression, maybe there were no good groups around.
Then i stayed small and there i had the time to go 10k\15k tiles away to take a templar\helly champ (dafuq is the elly hero devs? cmon implement it) and finally start to be a bit more consistent in fights. First problem i encountered is that i cant use boat because i will lose pet that way, so im limited to roam around with my speed..

My conclusion as now is that NF are a great world to live, is 300% better as graphic side and probably make the experience more durable for people who will stay here for years. The con is that every exceeding tile that have NF is a tile where there is not an enemy, so enounters will becoming further and further. With an healty population of 1k-2k players its enought to hold NF, with an avarage of 500 is better stay on OF.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:56 AM by inoeth

pax wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:38 AM
My first experience of Daoc started this year around 4 days after this server released in Jan. I played only a Minstrel in Eu time, lunch 12-15 and after dinner 19-22; not always but in a pretty consistent way.
First day on NF i found myself leading an 8man without much success, always going around with a green\blue pet, when was good i got a yellow but else in 8man there is no time to go take a good pet for the min. That was putting my team always in disvantage because i couldn't use the pet to interrupt enemies, 2 spells and it was dying.

To be honest in the top 50 rps earn of the first 48h there was only 1 alb infiltrator and i was thinking that Albs got a disadvanga vs other realm in NF but was just an impression, maybe there were no good groups around.
Then i stayed small and there i had the time to go 10k\15k tiles away to take a templar\helly champ (dafuq is the elly hero devs? cmon implement it) and finally start to be a bit more consistent in fights. First problem i encountered is that i cant use boat because i will lose pet that way, so im limited to roam around with my speed..

My conclusion as now is that NF are a great world to live, is 300% better as graphic side and probably make the experience more durable for people who will stay here for years. The con is that every exceeding tile that have NF is a tile where there is not an enemy, so enounters will becoming further and further. With an healty population of 1k-2k players its enought to hold NF, with an avarage of 500 is better stay on OF.

i played minstrel on live several years ago and back in that time it was not very common for grp minstrels to have a purple pet in grp fights at all.... also solo/stealthing minstrels did not use pets so much.... it was a very rare thing. mainly because you needed to have some RR to hold a pet, im sure you needed to be at least rr10 for a purple mob. but on live minstrels also did not need a pet so much because they had all the toa gimmicks, here i might suggest a qol to place some descent mobs around the boat arrival areas.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:43 AM by Runental

Remember that video from a French minstrel alexcoupersonyqe, farming ML encounter with a lv 85 pet? xD
Can't find the video anymore.

Edit, found it

https://youtu.be/olMB7SfAewM

Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:48 AM by relvinian

I think we can survive either OF or NF here. I think after test another, at least full week, of OF needs to be left up so we can compare.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:54 AM by relvinian

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 7:59 AM
labra wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 4:52 AM
There is one thing I don't understand.

Many points that Uthgard was too restrictive and thay staff didn't listen to community.

Phoenix staff is actually listening and are willing to let player chose and yet you people complain...

Let NF test pass, be active on upcoming poll and let players decide if it's OF or NF.

They don't always listen, I made a post before about how druid pets are completely gimped and that the stun is garbage vs det tanks and lasts .001 seconds, besides that most of the builds in hib are un-viable and are just being ignored. Meanwhile alb and mid have gotten buff after buff after buff. I don't think the devs even have a hib character because it only takes like 30 minutes in hib to realize that the economy is way too expensive and everything is just more difficult than in alb and I assume mid (DS for instance) .
Btw race respec = 8 plat in alb and 40 plat in hib, everything is way more expensive in hib since Darkspire is more difficult.

Earth wiz got buffs
Friar got buffs
Savage gets stoicism and climb walls now
Hunter pet gets super speed now

Meanwhile my green nature druid pet and with 48 nature spec hits for 40 damage and stuns for .001 seconds isn't deserving of a buff for some reason, just seems like realm favoritism to me honestly. Hib in general needs some serious lovin' can't imagine a good reason not to buff some of the weaker lines in hib, maybe it's just an oversight but now it's brought to everybodies attention if that is the case! Or it's just to keep everybody as the same cookie cutter builds, who knows.

Hunter pets hit harder than cabpets. my 44 fully buffed 45 spirit cab pet hit hunter for 65 and the hunter pet which is probably lvl 41 or 42? Hit my 50 cab for over 100.

If your green druid pet is hitting for 40 and stuns for almost nothing on det tanks, that needs to be addressed as well.

I made the comment during beta and posted a discussion about low pet dmg.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:39 AM by inoeth

Runental wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:43 AM
Remember that video from a French minstrel alexcoupersonyqe, farming ML encounter with a lv 85 pet? xD
Can't find the video anymore.

Edit, found it

https://youtu.be/olMB7SfAewM

yes i remember that, that was about the time when high lvl pets got famous

Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:41 AM by vadox

DOL is a server not a client. No one can rewrite a client. The messaging between a sever and a client was reversed engineered by original DOL team and no one modified that. Uthgard optimized the server code and so did Phoenix, except Phoenix was cleaning Genesis code and Uthgard had their own version entirely.

For whoever is interested, check out dolsever.net. Uthgard would not exist if not for that project. Abydos would run local Bingo events then instead.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 11:44 AM by opossum12

NF offers so much more than OF. I haven't read all the posts, but the general feeling I got was that solo/smallman of stealthers didn't know the people's routes to action in order to ambush and get action.

For sure NF is not as simple as OF where you can sit a mile gate and get action. However, NF has plenty of these spots for soloers.

Couple point:
- can we do something with the mazes to get some action there? On live there are the supply quests to farm BPs for CL xp. Not saying that's the way to go (feeding low rank players in free gear to R11 soloers), but you can get the idea

-can we remove climb walls from light tanks? It does make keep defense more intense with the volume of climbers, but it gets out of hand a bit. Hybrids or heavy tanks, which have a lot less population than light tanks, could be a bit more balanced.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:25 PM by gordy

Myllasia wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 5:11 PM
Please comeback to OF....

+1

Thanks.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:42 PM by Kyllikki

- Taking keeps is much more interesting,
- More strategy for zergs,
- Team can 8v8 on agra,
- Solo are not stacked at the same places everytime.

I see only advantages personally, even the time to go on another realm without tp is not excessive I think.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:26 PM by coufourier

+1 ....i is ont NF no good .... for the nostalgie of 2002 .....

Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:28 PM by Loki

NF is better in every way. The only ones qq'ing is guilds like PK or Doki Doki who made a career out of looping mmg to mpk Emain at 8 in the morning EU time when no one had a fg up.

I feel like NF motivates everyone to react when it comes to a keep or tower siege, losing a port affects everyone. Isn't that what the devs have tried since start, to make everyone join the zerg as the universal key to having fun ? Well, you made it happen.

I wanna point out how the frontiers and hot spots under attack are flooded with scouts and rangers, turns out archers didn't need some love after all, like people got out of their misrepresentation in the higher ranks of statistics. They just needed better spots to shoot from . Whodda thunk it !

Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:54 PM by Isavyr

Loki wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 1:28 PM
I wanna point out how the frontiers and hot spots under attack are flooded with scouts and rangers, turns out archers didn't need some love after all, like people got out of their misrepresentation in the higher ranks of statistics. They just needed better spots to shoot from . Whodda thunk it !

You mean, they run a FG in American prime-time?--how dare they run a group when Europeans cannot compete.

NF has many unused side-show buildings/assets, giving a lot more potential for additional objective/systems than OF. The developers, who are remiss to edit the current map files, have tons of buildings already laid out in NF that currently serve no purpose. This means that, should NF be chosen in the future, it will give the developers ways to make big boy RvR even better, with potential objectives for small-man. OF cannot do this.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 2:07 PM by gotwqqd

It’s possible that opponents of NF simply don’t want other players to have any other objectives besides direct conflict

Thu 13 Jun 2019 2:14 PM by Laec

logged in for the first time in months had a blast hope it stays otherwise im gone again OF terrain sucks and MG's restrict action too much for smallman and even a FG which is typically how i play. prefer NF because its way more fun terrain and fights in general.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 2:15 PM by stinsfire

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 2:07 PM
It’s possible that opponents of NF simply don’t want other players to have any other objectives besides direct conflict

You mean other objects than brain afk farming RPs by PvDooring keeps in 10 minutes while it is impossible to defend them? I've had much more fights and action in NF. I would almost say I had more exciting action (keepfights, stealthgroup, smallman and yesterday 8man), got zerged less, had more 1on1 without being added since monday than in the last month of OF. People constantly keepflipping and avoiding fights was just stupid.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 3:22 PM by Gweinyth

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 7:59 AM
labra wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 4:52 AM
There is one thing I don't understand.

Many points that Uthgard was too restrictive and thay staff didn't listen to community.

Phoenix staff is actually listening and are willing to let player chose and yet you people complain...

Let NF test pass, be active on upcoming poll and let players decide if it's OF or NF.

They don't always listen, I made a post before about how druid pets are completely gimped and that the stun is garbage vs det tanks and lasts .001 seconds, besides that most of the builds in hib are un-viable and are just being ignored. Meanwhile alb and mid have gotten buff after buff after buff. I don't think the devs even have a hib character because it only takes like 30 minutes in hib to realize that the economy is way too expensive and everything is just more difficult than in alb and I assume mid (DS for instance) .
Btw race respec = 8 plat in alb and 40 plat in hib, everything is way more expensive in hib since Darkspire is more difficult.

Earth wiz got buffs
Friar got buffs
Savage gets stoicism and climb walls now
Hunter pet gets super speed now

Meanwhile my green nature druid pet and with 48 nature spec hits for 40 damage and stuns for .001 seconds isn't deserving of a buff for some reason, just seems like realm favoritism to me honestly. Hib in general needs some serious lovin' can't imagine a good reason not to buff some of the weaker lines in hib, maybe it's just an oversight but now it's brought to everybodies attention if that is the case! Or it's just to keep everybody as the same cookie cutter builds, who knows.

Have you read all the nerf hib threads? On this forum I have learned that my bard which could snare people (of course I would never spec to get a snare weapon style) and ani with it's level 7 tangler are overpowered and just got nerfed. Based on the fact that a group of mids ran right through my shrooms and killed me, maybe they are correct <sarcasm>. I agree that hib needs a little buff love. I play hib because I love the classes but it can be incredibly frustrating at times. Just to be clear I am agreeing with you on these points.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 3:35 PM by Saroi

I played my stealther today(Hib) and it was better, especially camping bridges and docks gives more rp's and kills than any Milegate or PK camping in OF. Especially because all the groups and zergs are somewhere else, that means everyone who runs solo is on their own. In OF I always had to look if really no backup is coming from behind. Here I know for sure he is alone. That also happened to me on my visi, so I can say with a solo visible it is not fun for me. Maybe the ability to be able to dive would help a bit, since the terrain mostly is even so you are seen far away and even in water you can't hide. So going to swim to dodge the stealthgroups on bridges brings me nothing when I encounter fg of enemies in there.

As for Visible even if you dodge the Main Dock like DC, there are stealthers already camping other docks like nGed and Behnn. So it is not easy to be able to get on a boat to go somewhere in Mid or Alb land. Besides that I noticed that stealthers are grouping up way more now. I have seen SB here saying they are grouping up for the first time and it clearly shows for others too.

On the short term now the action is more spread out but sooner or later it will happen that one zone or area will be picked out which suits the server and most action will be there. Yesterday on EU evening I already saw that around every second kill happened in Ellan. In OF The issue never was Emain itself or the Milegates. It simply what the playerbase does.

I saw some player here saying they don't want OF because as a Hib they have to run so long. Since the porter came to OF, I have seen most Hibs in Emain now, especially APK-AMG is heavily camped by Hibstealthers. And since Pilzpower is also hard keepraiding you have the most ports available. So in OF Hibs have the least time looking for action.

Pilzpower and Gorion BG are still active but taking keeps is much more harder here, mostly the Guards can wipe a Raid and if there are a few deffers it becomes even much more harder. I fear that then those BG's will start roaming too and maybe go to Ellan were most action is and then nothing will change from the OF Emain zerging. Just like on live when each realm had 100+ BG on stick and roamed around, taking a few towers here and there and zerging down small man or solo people. And then people will complain again how zergy it is.

I could be wrong and it will work out differently but also not. For that reason I also think 1 week of testing it not really enough and should be expended. But Devs already made clear that it will be 1 week, not more or less and then there will be a vote. So we will see and have to wait how the playerbase decides. Anyways I will still if is changes to NF but I like OF more and it will have my vote. No I am not an Emain or Milegate camper. I was someone who was a lot in Hadrian and in 1 evening I had way more true 1v1 fights vs other stealthers or tanks and more fun than the 4 days now in NF.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 3:42 PM by moha

I love NF. The RvR is so much better than with OF. Please keep it!

Thu 13 Jun 2019 3:48 PM by vilcleft

Well, apologies if someone has stated this already, but this whole OF/NF thing is now reminding me of the complete screw up that the UK has put itself through with Brexit. If the question had never been asked, the uk population wouldnt have gotten completely split and lost all faith in its leaders.

3 months ago or so every question regarding NF was met with a "too much work", "cant be implemented" type of response, and apart from the occasional new thread from the odd people asking for it, people accepted that it wasnt going to happen and got on with life.

Now it seems like pandoras box has been opened.

In my humble opinion, the worst thing that the Devs can actually do now is give us a referendum on the subject. I would guess there is probably 30% of the population are hardcore OF, maybe 10% hardcore NF with 60% pretty much ambivalent, but the more the OF people whine and scream and threaten to leave, the more ambivalent people will vote NF to get rid of the whiney people. And if we end up with a 52/48 split, the entire project may end up losing another 30-40% of its population regardless of which outcome gets the 52%

Despite the fact that I am probably more Pro NF than OF, I genuinely think that NF maps, now tested should be saved for future week long events and that the basis of the server should remain OF for at least 90%+ of its future time with a weeks event of NF maybe every 3 months and maybe a couple of weekend special events every now and then.

I know you have already sort of promised the question will be asked after the test event finishes, but I genuinely think if you ask the question, you kill your server which you have clearly put a lot of time and effort into. You started this as an OF server, and whilst I have many issues with OF, in this instance I believe you should put your Dev foot down hard and just say, "Thanks for testing NF, but this is staying as an OF shard permanently, end of story!" and then add that you may use the tested maps for future events

This is not the sort of change where I feel a democratic poll of the players will be beneficial

Wyst

Thu 13 Jun 2019 3:56 PM by Ordak

I`m not a fan of NF.

With the server having every week a new setup, that`s actually what I hate the most. Stick to one stable setup and run it and fix the bugs and mistakes, that would be enough for the project.

NF is much to big, what happens in summer time? When more than 30% of the players are at holidays.
NF is laggy, the basic problems are NOT solved, the players are just spread out. The keep lords are much to hard to kill, the boats are atacked too easily and everyone is killed.
Giving everyone the same Realmabilities is not my understanding of balanced gaming.

For me it`s an easy decission - fix your bugs, you have a lot to do alone with that!
Stop introducing new things, until all the other things are fixed and run as intended.
If you keep NF, you will loose me as an frequent player.

Thanks for your efforts to run this freeshard!

Thu 13 Jun 2019 4:08 PM by BaldEagle

Ordak wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 3:56 PM
I`m not a fan of NF.

With the server having every week a new setup, that`s actually what I hate the most. Stick to one stable setup and run it and fix the bugs and mistakes, that would be enough for the project.

NF is much to big, what happens in summer time? When more than 30% of the players are at holidays.
NF is laggy, the basic problems are NOT solved, the players are just spread out. The keep lords are much to hard to kill, the boats are atacked too easily and everyone is killed.
Giving everyone the same Realmabilities is not my understanding of balanced gaming.

For me it`s an easy decission - fix your bugs, you have a lot to do alone with that!
Stop introducing new things, until all the other things are fixed and run as intended.
If you keep NF, you will loose me as an frequent player.

Thanks for your efforts to run this freeshard!

Stopped reading after the NF is too big argument again. It is the same size. The only difference is people just don't swarm to one area (emain) again and again.

If you want the battleground feel of OF, then that is fine, but stop using the too big argument.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 4:48 PM by Mavella

Not a fan of boats, bridges, and docks. Not a fan of 5+ min travel to an enemy zone to get stealth zerged. Not a fan of the bland terrain. Not a fan of people flying though water as if it isn't even there.

I have and will always prefer OF and believe it can continue to be tweaked to make keep attack/defense more attractive(add npc that can activate emergency port to keep under attack for 30sec on 15min CD, realm broadcast guard death not just to those that claimed the keep). I think the keep porting in OF was a step in the right direction.

I think you could also stand to rotate the task realm like we had previously and only give task credit in the task realm + PoC + DF to pull people out of emain.

Ultimately keeps are going to be worthless as long as relics are worthless it won't matter if it's OF or NF. I've been here since shortly after launch and I honestly couldn't tell you what the relic bonuses even are if you asked me. That's how inconsequential they are. Make relics worthwhile again and put have them all be stored in relic keeps again. Relic guards should be a deterrent and you can neuter or eliminate those guards if a realm is holding 3 of any one relic type making it so enemies can attack and recapture their relic easily if no defense shows up. Otherwise if every realm holds their own relics regular keeps need to be taken or the guards will prove a major obstacle to overcome. I know the worry is any one realm becoming too dominant. Tie relic guards to player pop as well. If one realm gets 45%+ pop with multiple relics make them easier for other realms to ninja theirs back.

Keep action was never forced back in the day and it was prompted by risk of relic loss or wanting DF access. Relic raids can/would happen organically if a lot of PvDoor was happening and there was a shot at taking a relic with the promise of getting a nice bonus and actually holding it longer than 24-48 hours.

Add back capturable points of interest on the task zones that give small bonuses and people can choose to battle each other over those or make pushes for larger objectives(relics) if the population can support it at the time.

Stop using the tasks as a way to force people how to play and instead use then to get people into all 3 frontiers on a rotating basis. You can use the task extend system if keeps keep falling in the task zone. If defending realm recaptures keeps give them a reduced timer to get the task zone to turn over sooner. If no keeps flip it just rotates on after x amount of time like it always had.

Make the sandbox better for players to play in. Stop telling them how to play in it.

And for those who hate mile gates. You're invading enemy territory of course there are going to be battlements/choke points to break through. That only makes sense. The port system helped alleviate some of that camping. I will say however it was implemented for a short while and I still saw plenty of people run to MMG in emain and die over and over when we had DC port open. Some people just can't be helped.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:02 PM by teiloh

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 7:59 AM
labra wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 4:52 AM
There is one thing I don't understand.

Many points that Uthgard was too restrictive and thay staff didn't listen to community.

Phoenix staff is actually listening and are willing to let player chose and yet you people complain...

Let NF test pass, be active on upcoming poll and let players decide if it's OF or NF.

They don't always listen, I made a post before about how druid pets are completely gimped and that the stun is garbage vs det tanks and lasts .001 seconds, besides that most of the builds in hib are un-viable and are just being ignored. Meanwhile alb and mid have gotten buff after buff after buff. I don't think the devs even have a hib character because it only takes like 30 minutes in hib to realize that the economy is way too expensive and everything is just more difficult than in alb and I assume mid (DS for instance) .
Btw race respec = 8 plat in alb and 40 plat in hib, everything is way more expensive in hib since Darkspire is more difficult.

Earth wiz got buffs
Friar got buffs
Savage gets stoicism and climb walls now
Hunter pet gets super speed now

Meanwhile my green nature druid pet and with 48 nature spec hits for 40 damage and stuns for .001 seconds isn't deserving of a buff for some reason, just seems like realm favoritism to me honestly. Hib in general needs some serious lovin' can't imagine a good reason not to buff some of the weaker lines in hib, maybe it's just an oversight but now it's brought to everybodies attention if that is the case! Or it's just to keep everybody as the same cookie cutter builds, who knows.

Reavers have been nerfed (interrupts, canceling SOS with pulse up)
Minstrels have been nerfed (20+ nerfs to charm, 10+ Minstrel specific)
Sorc pets have been nerfed
Cab pets have been nerfed. Enchanter casters are fine and SM pets were buffed.
Necros have been nerfed (power tap 15% weaker on return, power transfer 20% weaker, absorb nerfed into the ground, DoTs no longer interrupt every tick, can't 100% crit while still 100% crittable)

In exchange for some buffs to neglected/underperforming classes. Friars still have trouble fitting into groups.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:07 PM by Nildain

I can see how Albs and Mids feel like this is a downgrade but for Hibs who previously can't port into Emain it's pretty much just better in every way.

Seems better for people who like keeps (not me, admittedly) and it seems better for solos, or at the very least you get zerged about the same and it looks prettier and there's more variation in where you can go.

Maybe make boats a tiny bit faster to encourage more people to travel rather than to camp.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:13 PM by cere2

Mavella wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 4:48 PM
Not a fan of boats, bridges, and docks. Not a fan of 5+ min travel to an enemy zone to get stealth zerged. Not a fan of the bland terrain. Not a fan of people flying though water as if it isn't even there.

I have and will always prefer OF and believe it can continue to be tweaked to make keep attack/defense more attractive(add npc that can activate emergency port to keep under attack for 30sec on 15min CD, realm broadcast guard death not just to those that claimed the keep). I think the keep porting in OF was a step in the right direction.

I think you could also stand to rotate the task realm like we had previously and only give task credit in the task realm + PoC + DF to pull people out of emain.

Ultimately keeps are going to be worthless as long as relics are worthless it won't matter if it's OF or NF. I've been here since shortly after launch and I honestly couldn't tell you what the relic bonuses even are if you asked me. That's how inconsequential they are. Make relics worthwhile again and put have them all be stored in relic keeps again. Relic guards should be a deterrent and you can neuter or eliminate those guards if a realm is holding 3 of any one relic type making it so enemies can attack and recapture their relic easily if no defense shows up. Otherwise if every realm holds their own relics regular keeps need to be taken or the guards will prove a major obstacle to overcome. I know the worry is any one realm becoming too dominant. Tie relic guards to player pop as well. If one realm gets 45%+ pop with multiple relics make them easier for other realms to ninja theirs back.

Keep action was never forced back in the day and it was prompted by risk of relic loss or wanting DF access. Relic raids can/would happen organically if a lot of PvDoor was happening and there was a shot at taking a relic with the promise of getting a nice bonus and actually holding it longer than 24-48 hours.

Add back capturable points of interest on the task zones that give small bonuses and people can choose to battle each other over those or make pushes for larger objectives(relics) if the population can support it at the time.

Stop using the tasks as a way to force people how to play and instead use then to get people into all 3 frontiers on a rotating basis. You can use the task extend system if keeps keep falling in the task zone. If defending realm recaptures keeps give them a reduced timer to get the task zone to turn over sooner. If no keeps flip it just rotates on after x amount of time like it always had.

Make the sandbox better for players to play in. Stop telling them how to play in it.

And for those who hate mile gates. You're invading enemy territory of course there are going to be battlements/choke points to break through. That only makes sense. The port system helped alleviate some of that camping. I will say however it was implemented for a short while and I still saw plenty of people run to MMG in emain and die over and over when we had DC port open. Some people just can't be helped.

Not a fan of Portal Keeps being camped, Milegates being camped, and action in typically one area all day and night.
Keep action was never forced back in the day?
When? Keeps were generally rarely if ever taken back in the day. They didn't mean jack squat, and if they did no-one knew it!

I don't know what game you played at release but I didn't play until about 4 months after release, took me I think 3 months to get to 50 as ranger, had no clue what RvR was about, then about a month later I finally went out and we all stood on a portal to take us into Mid/Alb etc. No idea where to go, most people didn't at that time as most were still in the PvE mindset. Then I had my first encounter with roaming realm guards and died instantly. Spent the next 4 months figuring out ways to avoid roaming guards until they finally removed them.

By the time I figured most of it out, guess what....NF came.
I played in OF as I recall for just under 2 years and by that time I had 3 toons to 50, and combined between all 3 maybe had RR4.
OF was so little known and really I doubt more than 40% of the population at the time even were involved in RvR (speculation of course)

Daoc is almost an 18 year old game.
Released Oct 9, 2001.
NF released June 22, 2004. That's what 2.5 years from launch?

In all honesty I rarely remember OF as being anything more than a rarely used, rarely ventured wasteland. When NF came out, that's when I remember RvR actually becoming the endgame. And here some people are saying how great it used to be. Sorry I just can't buy into it, I lived through those days and just have no actual fond memories of the OF map. The fond memories are really the PvE with friends, and first memories of old NF.

TL/DR if OF was so good, and so sought after, don't you think they would have reverted? In an 18 year lifetime, only 2 of it was with OF. That should say something.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:21 PM by Bobbahunter

To get a solid idea where the community stands on the issue I would like to suggest 5 options for when we vote.

NF. Or I’m out
I prefer NF over OF
I don’t care either way
I prefer OF over NF
OF. Or I’m out

I really like NF but I play to kill people and have fun so in the end I want what will keep a good population.

I seen a few people complain on Monday they hate NF but last night they now like NF so thank you DEVs for allowing this trial.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:25 PM by Mavella

cere2 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:13 PM
Not a fan of Portal Keeps being camped, Milegates being camped, and action in typically one area all day and night.
Keep action was never forced back in the day?
When? Keeps were generally rarely if ever taken back in the day. They didn't mean jack squat, and if they did no-one knew it!

I don't know what game you played at release but I didn't play until about 4 months after release, took me I think 3 months to get to 50 as ranger, had no clue what RvR was about, then about a month later I finally went out and we all stood on a portal to take us into Mid/Alb etc. No idea where to go, most people didn't at that time as most were still in the PvE mindset. Then I had my first encounter with roaming realm guards and died instantly. Spent the next 4 months figuring out ways to avoid roaming guards until they finally removed them.

By the time I figured most of it out, guess what....NF came.
I played in OF as I recall for just under 2 years and by that time I had 3 toons to 50, and combined between all 3 maybe had RR4.
OF was so little known and really I doubt more than 40% of the population at the time even were involved in RvR (speculation of course)

Daoc is almost an 18 year old game.
Released Oct 9, 2001.
NF released June 22, 2004. That's what 2.5 years from launch?

In all honesty I rarely remember OF as being anything more than a rarely used, rarely ventured wasteland. When NF came out, that's when I remember RvR actually becoming the endgame. And here some people are saying how great it used to be. Sorry I just can't buy into it, I lived through those days and just have no actual fond memories of the OF map. The fond memories are really the PvE with friends, and first memories of old NF.

TL/DR if OF was so good, and so sought after, don't you think they would have reverted? In an 18 year lifetime, only 2 of it was with OF. That should say something.

I swear to God I don't know why I even reply to you.

Relic guards were directly tied to keep ownership. They were a huge obstacle if you tried to assault a relic keep without taking keeps first. People wanted relics for the 10%/20% bonus. People didn't want to lose those bonuses so they would be forced to come out if they held 3 relics and enemies were systematically taking keeps unopposed. Now relic bonuses are worthless and they are impossible to hold for any appreciable amount of time effectively making them worthless. I'm not advocating for such big bonuses like that but anything is better than what we've got.

Minor keep action was to flip DF. Swapping DF and cleaning it out used to be a decent chunk of RPs back then and people would flip it often. Due to how much easier it is to get RPs in the field here it's not really done as often.

A lot of nights it was purely emain action. The task rotation can break that up as people like their welfare rps.

I'm sorry it took you 3 years to figure the game out back then. My server was always active. Maybe you were playing on Gaheris and didn't realize?

Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:32 PM by cere2

You respond with relic guards? I'm not talking relic guards, I am talking "roaming guards"
Perhaps you weren't playing after launch? There were roaming guards that patrolled randomly the entire OF maps...
I played on Merlin and it was plenty active but like I said, OF lasted 2 years out of 18.
There's a reason why they never went back.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:45 PM by rodsta69

cere2 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:13 PM
Daoc is almost an 18 year old game.
Released Oct 9, 2001.
NF released June 22, 2004. That's what 2.5 years from launch?

You downplay how relatively short of a time OF was in the game, but guess what date patch 1.65 was released, which is the basis for this entire server? October 8, 2003. So only 2 years into the 18 year run of this game. TOA has been in the game since almost the beginning too and people hate it too and a large chunk of people are playing here explicitly because of the pre-TOA pre-NF experience. It's literally how they advertised it as being the classic 1.65 experience with QOL upgrades. 1.65 means no TOA, no NF, and yes a lot of us that played at launch played a lot of time in OF and that's where our nostalgia lies, whether the same applies to you or not.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:52 PM by cere2

rodsta69 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:45 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:13 PM
Daoc is almost an 18 year old game.
Released Oct 9, 2001.
NF released June 22, 2004. That's what 2.5 years from launch?

You downplay how relatively short of a time OF was in the game, but guess what date patch 1.65 was released, which is the basis for this entire server? October 8, 2003. So only 2 years into the 18 year run of this game. TOA has been in the game since almost the beginning too and people hate it too and a large chunk of people are playing here explicitly because of the pre-TOA pre-NF experience. It's literally how they advertised it as being the classic 1.65 experience with QOL upgrades. 1.65 means no TOA, no NF, and yes a lot of us that played at launch played a lot of time in OF and that's where our nostalgia lies, whether the same applies to you or not.

What do you mean I downplay how relatively short of a time OF was in the game?
I'm not downplaying anything, I am giving you the facts. Sorry if that upsets you.

Foundation definition: From Webster's dictionary
"Something (such as an idea, a principle, or a fact) that provides support for something."
"A body or ground upon which something is built up or overlaid."

1.65 was used as a foundation. Not the end all be all of Phoenix. That is just something that you projected.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:03 PM by Mavella

cere2 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:32 PM
You respond with relic guards? I'm not talking relic guards, I am talking "roaming guards"
Perhaps you weren't playing after launch? There were roaming guards that patrolled randomly the entire OF maps...
I played on Merlin and it was plenty active but like I said, OF lasted 2 years out of 18.
There's a reason why they never went back.

Oh my god stop quoting live for being the end all be all of the daoc experience. It's having been run by a skeleton crew with zero active development for OVER a decade. If live is so grand and you want the NNF go fuck off back there then. This server was advertised at 1.65 and OF with QoL. OF can certainly be improved with QoL just like the base game has been. I'm 100% for making OF better not the zerg keep/tower humpfest that N/NF promotes.

Ultimately my point is there's no overall goal besides and RP farm circle jerk because relics are worthless. That's what's broken about the server.

Also I'm talking about relic guards because that's a big factor in relic defense. I don't give a shit about patrols and them being gone is good for QoL. Not even sure why you're talking about them.

Edit- Also look how fast the live devs scrambled to announce a new classic server after the apparent initial success of this one. Don't even try and say that wasn't reactionary to Phoenix launch. Theres obviously a demand for it but ultimately you're not going to find a big subscriber base for it. They couldn't even hold on to over half the population here because people get bored and move on. No one's going to pay $15/mo to play what's already free.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:05 PM by rodsta69

cere2 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:52 PM
1.65 was used as a foundation. Not the end all be all of Phoenix. That is just something that you projected.

What would be the point of calling out 1.65 as the foundation of the server and then implementing all the stuff that came after so it isn't even recognizable as 1.65 anymore? So we could all relive the experience of slowly growing disdain for the game as more and more things we didn't like got implemented? That's some nostalgia I could live without.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:10 PM by cere2

Mavella wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:03 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:32 PM
You respond with relic guards? I'm not talking relic guards, I am talking "roaming guards"
Perhaps you weren't playing after launch? There were roaming guards that patrolled randomly the entire OF maps...
I played on Merlin and it was plenty active but like I said, OF lasted 2 years out of 18.
There's a reason why they never went back.

Oh my god stop quoting live for being the end all be all of the daoc experience. It's having been run by a skeleton crew with zero active development for OVER a decade. If live is so grand and you want the NNF go fuck off back there then. This server was advertised at 1.65 and OF with QoL. OF can certainly be improved with QoL just like the base game has been. I'm 100% for making OF better not the zerg keep/tower humpfest that N/NF promotes.

Ultimately my point is there's no overall goal besides and RP farm circle jerk because relics are worthless. That's what's broken about the server.

Also I'm talking about relic guards because that's a big factor in relic defense. I don't give a shit about patrols and them being gone is good for QoL. Not even sure why you're talking about them.

You are obviously having issues reading then. Live was good until about 1.5 years ago, sorry you couldn't adjust...and apparently still can't.

I'll just quote the front page of Phoenix to give you a reminder...hopefully you can read this and understand...please show me where they say anything about OF?
Or is that just you projecting that nothing would change from a foundation?

Also, telling me to "F" off only shows your lack of patience, and perhaps intellect.

"We have used patch 1.65 as the foundation and have made numerous class and game play adjustments, as well as, added Quality of Life features to make your playing experience much more enjoyable."

Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:19 PM by Mavella

"Good" is entirely subjective and doesn't change the fact the live game has been dead in the water for over a decade. The only reason live is still open is because of a small loyal population that amazingly still pay a $15/mo sub all these years later. Once that dries up EA is going bury that turd for good.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 6:42 PM by BaldEagle

Took me 3 mins from Glen to Beno FYI for those who say boats take too long. Perfect time to take a leak and crack a beer or fill up your water cup.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:03 PM by Zoric

The thing I like about NF is Hibs aren't getting free unearned realm ranks cause of bots like Pilzburypvdoorboy. A pvdoor bot like him should NEVER enable the realm to get twice as many rps for kills. He is all but forgotten now because he can't wack on doors without defenders. This would hurt garbo guilds like Philosopher Kings who have earned most of their RRs jumping solos and getting rps worth while for it cause of keep bonus. They even brag about it in their stream like baddies. You can see that the realm points "earned" by PKs this week drastically plummeted. Its not a coincidence that hib doesn't have all keeps like they usually do in OF and its harder for them to jump solos. NF would probably make them quit and that is great for solos/duos/small mans cause that's all they fight. This is reason enough to switch to NF for me because I can't stand baddie 8mans who run around looking for solos. Why even play this game? That's not fun or challenging at all.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:15 PM by Turano

Zoric wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:03 PM
The thing I like about NF is Hibs aren't getting free unearned realm ranks cause of bots like Pilzburypvdoorboy.

1. Pilzpower is definitely not a bot. He unites all the cassual players under his banner and gives them some purpose for his realm instead of being mindlessly farmed like so many albs in emain
2. Albs and mids have by far the fastest way to make rp's in of: emain. As a hib you had to walk at least 7 minutes before even getting there before the keep teleport update. And even after that you will have to wait 2 minutes before being allowed to port again. In that time the average alb/mid already had 1-2 fights in emain.
3. You may not like keepraiding or the rp boni it provides for the realm but nobody stops you or any other alb/mid from taking keeps as well

Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:01 PM by Kemoauc

My impressions so far:

I understand that there are a lot of people that like raiding keeps/towers and do it as their main activity in rvr. However, I don't like how much more this playstyle impacts mine in NF than in OF. In OF I can/could basically just ignore it/switch realms and everyone could do what they wanted to. In contrast, NF forces me to participate in tower defense/raiding or go do pve.

Today at one point we had lost at least one tower of every keep without losing an actual keep due to some imbalances in population and some stronger hibgrps being out during that time of the day. There was literally nothing albs could have done to prevent it as the necessary numbers were not there. I don't think it was the intention of whoever designed NF that the realm that is pushed in has to jump from their own still closed relict walls because there was no other way to the docks anymore. The relict walls turn into way way worse chokepoints than amg or mmg in emain ever was this way because you have to take like 40% dmg while travelling through it and because it's a chockepoint for any kind of rvr - no way around it and no port to some other place possible. I think NF carries a high risk that maybe in the future some underpopulated realm is completely screwed because it is completely locked out of any type of rvr and can't do anything about it either.

Maybe a change to the porting system only being dependent on holding the keep and not the towers could alleviate that. I also felt I was being forced to participate in reclaiming these towers because running from the starting village to the closest dock and then travelling by ship to another realm takes forever compared to starting from the borderkeeps.

Other than that I don't see much of a difference between the two maps. The current keep task system makes it so that the action is concentrated to a small region in NF - 1 rotating keep. For a lot of people the task rewards are probably half or more of the hourly rps and now those keeps/rps are more accessible than before so nobody is going to just not go there probably. I saw loads of people suciding into Beno today... Maybe changing the keep task to something a bit wider again would alleviate that a bit.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:14 PM by Saroi

Zoric wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:03 PM
The thing I like about NF is Hibs aren't getting free unearned realm ranks cause of bots like Pilzburypvdoorboy. A pvdoor bot like him should NEVER enable the realm to get twice as many rps for kills. He is all but forgotten now because he can't wack on doors without defenders. This would hurt garbo guilds like Philosopher Kings who have earned most of their RRs jumping solos and getting rps worth while for it cause of keep bonus. They even brag about it in their stream like baddies. You can see that the realm points "earned" by PKs this week drastically plummeted. Its not a coincidence that hib doesn't have all keeps like they usually do in OF and its harder for them to jump solos. NF would probably make them quit and that is great for solos/duos/small mans cause that's all they fight. This is reason enough to switch to NF for me because I can't stand baddie 8mans who run around looking for solos. Why even play this game? That's not fun or challenging at all.

Most of the time Albs and especially Mids outnumber Hibs. Sometimes Mids outnumber the other 2 realms by around 100. I already said it before. It is not the fault of Pilzpower or Hibernia, that they can farm Keeps. It is the fault of the other 2 realms that they do not encounter the Raid most of the time, especially Mids are chickens.

Gorion has had a BG on Albion for the past few days/weeks. I have been there with my Paladin and we sometimes went to kill the Pilzpower BG and succeeded while they were on a keep.

And as you can see, on NF not much has changed. Pilzpower is still having his BG and going for towers etc. So there is no difference in OF because now they have more objectives to take.

As for play this game. DAoC is a MMORPG, which is meant for group action. I solo too and it sucks getting run over by groups, but is even more annoying when it is the Alb stealthzerg, which you do not encounter since you are an Inf. It is easier to dodge normal groups as a stealther than groups of stealthers, especially now since Scouts see other Assassins at a bigger range.

And about PK: If you look Herald you can see only 4 of them are active atm, so they are not their usual full group.

And talking about not getting free rp's. Just look at Stunbot. He has currently made 360k rp's in 12 hours (He is online atm, so /stats player stunbot ). 52k rp's are from kills. Which means he made over 300k rp's from tasks or other stuff. Yep, NF you definitely have to work hard for you rp's!

Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:17 PM by BaldEagle

Saroi wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:14 PM
Zoric wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:03 PM
The thing I like about NF is Hibs aren't getting free unearned realm ranks cause of bots like Pilzburypvdoorboy. A pvdoor bot like him should NEVER enable the realm to get twice as many rps for kills. He is all but forgotten now because he can't wack on doors without defenders. This would hurt garbo guilds like Philosopher Kings who have earned most of their RRs jumping solos and getting rps worth while for it cause of keep bonus. They even brag about it in their stream like baddies. You can see that the realm points "earned" by PKs this week drastically plummeted. Its not a coincidence that hib doesn't have all keeps like they usually do in OF and its harder for them to jump solos. NF would probably make them quit and that is great for solos/duos/small mans cause that's all they fight. This is reason enough to switch to NF for me because I can't stand baddie 8mans who run around looking for solos. Why even play this game? That's not fun or challenging at all.

Most of the time Albs and especially Mids outnumber Hibs. Sometimes Mids outnumber the other 2 realms by around 100. I already said it before. It is not the fault of Pilzpower or Hibernia, that they can farm Keeps. It is the fault of the other 2 realms that they do not encounter the Raid most of the time, especially Mids are chickens.

Gorion has had a BG on Albion for the past few days/weeks. I have been there with my Paladin and we sometimes went to kill the Pilzpower BG and succeeded while they were on a keep.

And as you can see, on NF not much has changed. Pilzpower is still having his BG and going for towers etc. So there is no difference in OF because now they have more objectives to take.

As for play this game. DAoC is a MMORPG, which is meant for group action. I solo too and it sucks getting run over by groups, but is even more annoying when it is the Alb stealthzerg, which you do not encounter since you are an Inf. It is easier to dodge normal groups as a stealther than groups of stealthers, especially now since Scouts see other Assassins at a bigger range.

And about PK: If you look Herald you can see only 4 of them are active atm, so they are not their usual full group.

And talking about not getting free rp's. Just look at Stunbot. He has currently made 360k rp's in 12 hours (He is online atm, so /stats player stunbot ). 52k rp's are from kills. Which means he made over 300k rp's from tasks or other stuff. Yep, NF you definitely have to work hard for you rp's!

They don't encounter them because OF is horrible and the keeps are awful to attack and defend. You are already seeing the difference this week with NF.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:36 PM by Azrael

The action is in zones like odin,hw and emain. All people circle around docks and the keep. I had one equal / clean fight as a duo since event started. In OF I had at least one per evening. You usually zerg and add fights or get zerged and get added. I just wonder where and when people roam who claim NF offers better opportunities for differents playstyles. (duo/smallman/8man) Zones like cg/upp/snow are usually empty.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:53 PM by profoundtedium

cere2 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:52 PM
rodsta69 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:45 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:13 PM
Daoc is almost an 18 year old game.
Released Oct 9, 2001.
NF released June 22, 2004. That's what 2.5 years from launch?

You downplay how relatively short of a time OF was in the game, but guess what date patch 1.65 was released, which is the basis for this entire server? October 8, 2003. So only 2 years into the 18 year run of this game. TOA has been in the game since almost the beginning too and people hate it too and a large chunk of people are playing here explicitly because of the pre-TOA pre-NF experience. It's literally how they advertised it as being the classic 1.65 experience with QOL upgrades. 1.65 means no TOA, no NF, and yes a lot of us that played at launch played a lot of time in OF and that's where our nostalgia lies, whether the same applies to you or not.

What do you mean I downplay how relatively short of a time OF was in the game?
I'm not downplaying anything, I am giving you the facts. Sorry if that upsets you.

Foundation definition: From Webster's dictionary
"Something (such as an idea, a principle, or a fact) that provides support for something."
"A body or ground upon which something is built up or overlaid."

1.65 was used as a foundation. Not the end all be all of Phoenix. That is just something that you projected.

Wasn't the magic word "progress" before "foundation". But lets be clear. The patch level # referenced is fucking pointless with your type of interpretation. The foundation is Dark Age of Camelot. 1.65 makes a point to specify a specific point in time. Not 1.67, not 1.68, not 1.7. 1.65.

"Building on the foundation of 1.65' is qualitatively different than "We decided to use 1.7 as a foundation". That is the CONTENT level. NF is CONTENT. You don't build CONTENT on top of an 'antiquated' patch level. You do build quality of life changes on top of content levels, that's craftqueues and account vaults and campfires.

Darkness Falls was the original answer to "why the hell should we take keeps?" When relic raids were often too difficult to pull off successfully.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:04 PM by cere2

profoundtedium wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:53 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:52 PM
rodsta69 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:45 PM
You downplay how relatively short of a time OF was in the game, but guess what date patch 1.65 was released, which is the basis for this entire server? October 8, 2003. So only 2 years into the 18 year run of this game. TOA has been in the game since almost the beginning too and people hate it too and a large chunk of people are playing here explicitly because of the pre-TOA pre-NF experience. It's literally how they advertised it as being the classic 1.65 experience with QOL upgrades. 1.65 means no TOA, no NF, and yes a lot of us that played at launch played a lot of time in OF and that's where our nostalgia lies, whether the same applies to you or not.

What do you mean I downplay how relatively short of a time OF was in the game?
I'm not downplaying anything, I am giving you the facts. Sorry if that upsets you.

Foundation definition: From Webster's dictionary
"Something (such as an idea, a principle, or a fact) that provides support for something."
"A body or ground upon which something is built up or overlaid."

1.65 was used as a foundation. Not the end all be all of Phoenix. That is just something that you projected.

Wasn't the magic word "progress" before "foundation". But lets be clear. The patch level # referenced is fucking pointless with your type of interpretation. The foundation is Dark Age of Camelot. 1.65 makes a point to specify a specific point in time. Not 1.67, not 1.68, not 1.7. 1.65.

"Building on the foundation of 1.65' is qualitatively different than "We decided to use 1.7 as a foundation". That is the CONTENT level. NF is CONTENT. You don't build CONTENT on top of an 'antiquated' patch level. You do build quality of life changes on top of content levels, that's craftqueues and account vaults and campfires.

Darkness Falls was the original answer to "why the hell should we take keeps?" When relic raids were often too difficult to pull off successfully.

Someone's interpretation of something is always up for debate, but I just stated what was posted on the site.
Building on a foundation is just a starting point, your interpretation of that may have been that they would never move past 1.65 but you could be wrong.
Perhaps they never will and I could be wrong too. But I think that anything that has a chance to survive has to change/adapt/incentive. But that's just my opinion.
Though I will say not adapting is kinda where Uthgard is at...so who knows.

Just to add, this is a "custom" server. So you argue that NF is not part of 1.65 foundation, but I could argue that NF RA's are not part of 1.65 either so how does that fit in to the point you were making....

Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:11 PM by Pops999

With Live planning on releasing Endless Conquest and possibly a classic progressive server, Phoenix may have no choice but to implement NF.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:25 PM by BaldEagle

Azrael wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:36 PM
The action is in zones like odin,hw and emain. All people circle around docks and the keep. I had one equal / clean fight as a duo since event started. In OF I had at least one per evening. You usually zerg and add fights or get zerged and get added. I just wonder where and when people roam who claim NF offers better opportunities for differents playstyles. (duo/smallman/8man) Zones like cg/upp/snow are usually empty.

I dunno man. There was some action down in Surs and I took an surs boat from bled and got some pretty good action camping in the terrain outside bold.

Just because theres people who don't know where to go, doesn't mean that is the only location. Some of us know, others don't.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:54 PM by profoundtedium

cere2 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:04 PM
profoundtedium wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:53 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 5:52 PM
What do you mean I downplay how relatively short of a time OF was in the game?
I'm not downplaying anything, I am giving you the facts. Sorry if that upsets you.

Foundation definition: From Webster's dictionary
"Something (such as an idea, a principle, or a fact) that provides support for something."
"A body or ground upon which something is built up or overlaid."

1.65 was used as a foundation. Not the end all be all of Phoenix. That is just something that you projected.

Wasn't the magic word "progress" before "foundation". But lets be clear. The patch level # referenced is fucking pointless with your type of interpretation. The foundation is Dark Age of Camelot. 1.65 makes a point to specify a specific point in time. Not 1.67, not 1.68, not 1.7. 1.65.

"Building on the foundation of 1.65' is qualitatively different than "We decided to use 1.7 as a foundation". That is the CONTENT level. NF is CONTENT. You don't build CONTENT on top of an 'antiquated' patch level. You do build quality of life changes on top of content levels, that's craftqueues and account vaults and campfires.

Darkness Falls was the original answer to "why the hell should we take keeps?" When relic raids were often too difficult to pull off successfully.

Someone's interpretation of something is always up for debate, but I just stated what was posted on the site.
Building on a foundation is just a starting point, your interpretation of that may have been that they would never move past 1.65 but you could be wrong.
Perhaps they never will and I could be wrong too. But I think that anything that has a chance to survive has to change/adapt/incentive. But that's just my opinion.
Though I will say not adapting is kinda where Uthgard is at...so who knows.

Just to add, this is a "custom" server. So you argue that NF is not part of 1.65 foundation, but I could argue that NF RA's are not part of 1.65 either so how does that fit in to the point you were making....

OF didn't kill Uthgard, Uthgard killed Uthgard. And for a freeshard I was playing on in 2007 up until 1.0 wipe, and 5 months of 2.0, I can say, look at Uthgard as a comparison all you want, they had years of success, driven by a 1.65 mindset. Phoenix has a long way to go, and this decision to change to a 1.7 foundation will make or break the population, and you can be in denial all you want about that.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 11:01 PM by stinsfire

BaldEagle wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:25 PM
Azrael wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:36 PM
The action is in zones like odin,hw and emain. All people circle around docks and the keep. I had one equal / clean fight as a duo since event started. In OF I had at least one per evening. You usually zerg and add fights or get zerged and get added. I just wonder where and when people roam who claim NF offers better opportunities for differents playstyles. (duo/smallman/8man) Zones like cg/upp/snow are usually empty.

I dunno man. There was some action down in Surs and I took an surs boat from bled and got some pretty good action camping in the terrain outside bold.

Just because theres people who don't know where to go, doesn't mean that is the only location. Some of us know, others don't.

Yep, if you start raiding keeps you usually want to cut off teleport routes so Zergs or groups go for keeps who are deeper into enemy territory first. I had fights deep into the "second" zone but not a single fight in Sauvage or Cruachan George, but that doesnt matter to me. Will probably only really happen when people are raiding relics. but to be honest. It was no different in OF except Uppland because we mids heavily used FZ for XP. The areas around Castle Sauvage and Druim Ligen were basically never camped by Groups... now and then a few stealthers or a duo/trio.

And does it really matter... having 1 or 0 clean fights while playing for hours? Game is just not made for duo playstyle and encourages attacking en masse. But yesterday I was roaming with 3 guild buddies. We couldnt find supps to build a grp. So we were Skald, Thane, Thane, Warrior. Mids attacked a hib keep and we just cleverly roamed the routes from the next teleport keep and farmed a lot of RPs on people heading (we basically attacked everything up to our grp size) there to defend. Not clean fights but I never made that much RP as a smallman with such a subpar setup in OF. It just wasn't possible because noone was ever trying to get to the keeps under attack since you could not use backdoors or hide in a tower that you still own and then jump out and sandwich them when the defenders in the keep decided to push out.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 1:44 AM by Azrael

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 11:01 PM
BaldEagle wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:25 PM
Azrael wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 9:36 PM
The action is in zones like odin,hw and emain. All people circle around docks and the keep. I had one equal / clean fight as a duo since event started. In OF I had at least one per evening. You usually zerg and add fights or get zerged and get added. I just wonder where and when people roam who claim NF offers better opportunities for differents playstyles. (duo/smallman/8man) Zones like cg/upp/snow are usually empty.

I dunno man. There was some action down in Surs and I took an surs boat from bled and got some pretty good action camping in the terrain outside bold.

Just because theres people who don't know where to go, doesn't mean that is the only location. Some of us know, others don't.

Yep, if you start raiding keeps you usually want to cut off teleport routes so Zergs or groups go for keeps who are deeper into enemy territory first. I had fights deep into the "second" zone but not a single fight in Sauvage or Cruachan George, but that doesnt matter to me. Will probably only really happen when people are raiding relics. but to be honest. It was no different in OF except Uppland because we mids heavily used FZ for XP. The areas around Castle Sauvage and Druim Ligen were basically never camped by Groups... now and then a few stealthers or a duo/trio.

And does it really matter... having 1 or 0 clean fights while playing for hours? Game is just not made for duo playstyle and encourages attacking en masse. But yesterday I was roaming with 3 guild buddies. We couldnt find supps to build a grp. So we were Skald, Thane, Thane, Warrior. Mids attacked a hib keep and we just cleverly roamed the routes from the next teleport keep and farmed a lot of RPs on people heading (we basically attacked everything up to our grp size) there to defend. Not clean fights but I never made that much RP as a smallman with such a subpar setup in OF. It just wasn't possible because noone was ever trying to get to the keeps under attack since you could not use backdoors or hide in a tower that you still own and then jump out and sandwich them when the defenders in the keep decided to push out.

I know it is not designed for duo or smallman but for me it is worth if I roam just to get my thrilling fight.

I can have fun in groups too, farming ppl or doing siege warfare but thats not the main reason I play this game.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 1:58 AM by beatrix

O - M - G ! Can we please get rid of New Frontiers! This is NOT live. Many of us came to play on Phoenix because of classic DAoC. All these changes especially with NF is just turning people away from the server.

Since playing in new frontiers, it's hard to find enemies and it takes so long to get to the action! The maps are too big for the current population. I'm sorry to say Phoenix, but the numbers have really gone down since launch and it's going to keep going down with all these custom changes.

Please, I repeat PLEASE do not consider picking new frontiers over old frontiers... it will be the biggest mistake for Phoenix.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:01 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

^ upvote

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:08 AM by Lacyn HowboutDah

Its pretty simple you roll out NF you lose a good chunk of your pop and kill your server. I won't play NF, and ill wait to see what you guys do. Later.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:38 AM by Bumbles

Lacyn HowboutDah wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:08 AM
Its pretty simple you roll out NF you lose a good chunk of your pop and kill your server. I won't play NF, and ill wait to see what you guys do. Later.

See ya, can I have your stuff?

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:56 AM by Lacyn HowboutDah

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:38 AM
Lacyn HowboutDah wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:08 AM
Its pretty simple you roll out NF you lose a good chunk of your pop and kill your server. I won't play NF, and ill wait to see what you guys do. Later.

See ya, can I have your stuff?

Yeah hold your breath

Fri 14 Jun 2019 3:52 AM by easytoremember

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:38 AM
See ya, can I have your stuff?

It seems like every time I see this posted the peak population drops another 10 players

Fri 14 Jun 2019 5:52 AM by Thaelion

I like NF very much but there are just too few players for NF and if it should go live I fear that there will be even fewer players.
The weeks were in the evening max. 1600 players online according to the main page and not everyone is on the road in RvR. For NF this is simply too little...

Fri 14 Jun 2019 6:46 AM by Stoertebecker

Thaelion wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 5:52 AM
I like NF very much but there are just too few players for NF and if it should go live I fear that there will be even fewer players.
The weeks were in the evening max. 1600 players online according to the main page and not everyone is on the road in RvR. For NF this is simply too little...

I´ve played the last year on live/hib and i can tell you that it`s working with only 200 players on each side at primetime. (but only on primetime)
Is that a satisfying gaming experience? No, it is not. And such a server would be already shut down by Mythic back in those days.

Most action was on Agramon, around DC, Bledmeer and Benowyc, and sometimes around nGed, Glenlock and Boldiam.
Wouldn`t be different here once the players know how to play the map

There are just some differences between live and Phoenix.
They have a average rvr participation at primetime on live at 50% and more.
They have no realmswitchtimer on live.
Each class has at least access to speed 5 (speed of the hunt + permasprint).

I know what i would do in a responsible position, if i have no other option than going NF.
I would lower the timer to 1-2h and give all classes the ability to roam around with speed 5. More solo, duo and smallscale action = more ppl in rvr.

But....i`m not responsible for this server.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 7:35 AM by Sms

good way to have a community remove all the negative post ppl make @devs @gm's.

this NF thing was/is very smart to do with this population,

think if you did this when there was actually more ppl playing the server.

yes i know this will be removed too, since only positive things are allowed on the forum i guess. to make it look like everyone loves the changes you make.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 7:47 AM by ESR211

Was talking with some friends, and we came up with a decent solution to boats and content in NF.

Take the furthest two keeps in every realms NF zone and give 1 to each opposing realm permanently with all towers destroyed but teleport available.

So for Alb Berk and Beno would go to Hibs and Mids with towers destroyed but teleport active. Do this for all 3 realms.
This gets rid of the boat nonsense and allows realms to have near instant action for small man content, and gives the zergs and 8mans plenty of space to roam with nice new keep models.

DF remains unchanged because all realms still have the same number of keeps and towers default.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 8:01 AM by inoeth

ESR211 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 7:47 AM
Was talking with some friends, and we came up with a decent solution to boats and content in NF.

Take the furthest two keeps in every realms NF zone and give 1 to each opposing realm permanently with all towers destroyed but teleport available.

So for Alb Berk and Beno would go to Hibs and Mids with towers destroyed but teleport active. Do this for all 3 realms.
This gets rid of the boat nonsense and allows realms to have near instant action for small man content, and gives the zergs and 8mans plenty of space to roam with nice new keep models.

DF remains unchanged because all realms still have the same number of keeps and towers default.

no thx

Fri 14 Jun 2019 8:41 AM by Druth

ESR211 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 7:47 AM
Was talking with some friends, and we came up with a decent solution to boats and content in NF.

Take the furthest two keeps in every realms NF zone and give 1 to each opposing realm permanently with all towers destroyed but teleport available.

So for Alb Berk and Beno would go to Hibs and Mids with towers destroyed but teleport active. Do this for all 3 realms.
This gets rid of the boat nonsense and allows realms to have near instant action for small man content, and gives the zergs and 8mans plenty of space to roam with nice new keep models.

DF remains unchanged because all realms still have the same number of keeps and towers default.

You just need to cut porting to Coast keeps in your own realm (apart from DC/Bled/Beno of course), so opening port would be much easier.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 9:02 AM by jhaerik

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:05 AM
You should maybe take a look at the actual stats. You can / could see with uthgard what happens when you do nothing at all when the pop starts to drop. You can see here what happens when you start doing changes when the pop drops, it's pretty much identical for the vast majority of the loss as the major reason for the initial drop after a couple month is / was exactly the same for both servers: many people were just trying it out and getting burned out / not finding what they remembered or actually remembered how it was at level 50.
Until the charge / buff change we had basically the same number of players as uthgard after the same amount of time, since that and the other changes the population loss has actually decreased slightly, is that because of those changes? Maybe for some, however, it certainly was not the dooms day change as many proclaim it to be.

Then there is wow in August, doing absolutely nothing and expecting to not drop lower in population is just wishful thinking. Is it risky in that any change might drive some people away? Absolutely, however, changes also have the potential to retain others that would have left for longer as all changes have the purpose to make it better in the end, not necessarily in the short term or completely without making someone unhappy, but still.

My point is you wouldn't have seen the population drop to this extent if it wasn't for some of the less favorable changes. Uthgard lost players due to no changes. The changes that were needed were mainly numbers tweaks on things they they both had incorrect and people had evidence to prove so. The biggest of these was a spell resist rate that was sitting around 40% vs yellow/low OJ mobs. Casters felt downright terrible to play on Uthgard and you'd often OoM in a fight just from a large number of resists without killing anything. It felt like RNG hell.

Phoenix however went the opposite direction. To differentiate itself from Uthgard you guys made changes. LOTs of changes. In fact it felt like playing a patch notes sim. Every day we'd logged in it seems liked we had a page of patch notes to read. The task system reworks were badly handled. They caused different abborant gameplay patterns to emerge to farm RP as fast as possible for the least effort. They caused the AFK at flag and suicide to guard RP farming issues. They killed low level grouping and they killed BG's. That even in itself cost you a LOT of players.

They you folks started in on the class changes. Buffing friars did nothing to get them into groups but absolutely ruined small man gameplay. Suddenly Friar+Mini+Reaver was an utter nightmare to run into. Also there were the PvE nerfs that just absolutely ruined the game for people that enjoyed focus based pet PvE. Those were unneeded and badly thought out.

Then you had all the wonderful BD nerfs. and banning BD's for afk farming which has been a part of DAoC since they were added. Seriously. Just scroll through your ban list to see where all your active players when. You guys banned hundreds of players for doing things that would have been 100% acceptable in real DAoC. You guys celebrated banning people, and now you are running short on players. Go figure.

With things like Classic WoW coming out in 2 months, and a new P1999 server in October I just don't see much of a point in investing any more time into this server with this prime time pop dipping under 1k and it's NA pop basically dead.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 9:25 AM by inoeth

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 9:02 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 12:05 AM
You should maybe take a look at the actual stats. You can / could see with uthgard what happens when you do nothing at all when the pop starts to drop. You can see here what happens when you start doing changes when the pop drops, it's pretty much identical for the vast majority of the loss as the major reason for the initial drop after a couple month is / was exactly the same for both servers: many people were just trying it out and getting burned out / not finding what they remembered or actually remembered how it was at level 50.
Until the charge / buff change we had basically the same number of players as uthgard after the same amount of time, since that and the other changes the population loss has actually decreased slightly, is that because of those changes? Maybe for some, however, it certainly was not the dooms day change as many proclaim it to be.

Then there is wow in August, doing absolutely nothing and expecting to not drop lower in population is just wishful thinking. Is it risky in that any change might drive some people away? Absolutely, however, changes also have the potential to retain others that would have left for longer as all changes have the purpose to make it better in the end, not necessarily in the short term or completely without making someone unhappy, but still.

My point is you wouldn't have seen the population drop to this extent if it wasn't for some of the less favorable changes. Uthgard lost players due to no changes. The changes that were needed were mainly numbers tweaks on things they they both had incorrect and people had evidence to prove so. The biggest of these was a spell resist rate that was sitting around 40% vs yellow/low OJ mobs. Casters felt downright terrible to play on Uthgard and you'd often OoM in a fight just from a large number of resists without killing anything. It felt like RNG hell.

Phoenix however went the opposite direction. To differentiate itself from Uthgard you guys made changes. LOTs of changes. In fact it felt like playing a patch notes sim. Every day we'd logged in it seems liked we had a page of patch notes to read. The task system reworks were badly handled. They caused different abborant gameplay patterns to emerge to farm RP as fast as possible for the least effort. They caused the AFK at flag and suicide to guard RP farming issues. They killed low level grouping and they killed BG's. That even in itself cost you a LOT of players.

They you folks started in on the class changes. Buffing friars did nothing to get them into groups but absolutely ruined small man gameplay. Suddenly Friar+Mini+Reaver was an utter nightmare to run into. Also there were the PvE nerfs that just absolutely ruined the game for people that enjoyed focus based pet PvE. Those were unneeded and badly thought out.

Then you had all the wonderful BD nerfs. and banning BD's for afk farming which has been a part of DAoC since they were added. Seriously. Just scroll through your ban list to see where all your active players when. You guys banned hundreds of players for doing things that would have been 100% acceptable in real DAoC. You guys celebrated banning people, and now you are running short on players. Go figure.

With things like Classic WoW coming out in 2 months, and a new P1999 server in October I just don't see much of a point in investing any more time into this server with this prime time pop dipping under 1k and it's NA pop basically dead.

can i have your stuff?
seriously, uthgard 1 survied years with 1k pop so that is nothing bad.... imo the upside of this is less zerg, but yeah it should not fall under 1k too much.
all the changes you mentioned were nessecary, but maybe turned out to ne not optimal... its not like you change something and suddenly its perfect, sometimes its try and error, especially with several thousand players you can not forecast how changes turn out. and btw that was also the case on live servers, but there the distance betwene one change and its correction was way longer (remember totally overpowered WL, and how long it took to nerf it?) you should be glad that there are many changes. ofc sometimes they turn out bad, but then its not for long and if you watch it from afar, the server constantly gets better and more balanced....

now all the ney-sayers will disagree with me here but i really dont care about them, they can not even explain why they dont like this or that, why even bother with them?

@dev team: great work so far, even though i had some arguements with schaf, but in the end it was worth it and i really like your server /kiss

Fri 14 Jun 2019 10:04 AM by Stoertebecker

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 8:41 AM
ESR211 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 7:47 AM
Was talking with some friends, and we came up with a decent solution to boats and content in NF.

Take the furthest two keeps in every realms NF zone and give 1 to each opposing realm permanently with all towers destroyed but teleport available.

So for Alb Berk and Beno would go to Hibs and Mids with towers destroyed but teleport active. Do this for all 3 realms.
This gets rid of the boat nonsense and allows realms to have near instant action for small man content, and gives the zergs and 8mans plenty of space to roam with nice new keep models.

DF remains unchanged because all realms still have the same number of keeps and towers default.

You just need to cut porting to Coast keeps in your own realm (apart from DC/Bled/Beno of course), so opening port would be much easier.

That`s the way it was and still is on live. Each realm has only 4 portable keeps.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 12:34 PM by relvinian

What annoys me is the illusion of choice.

They have a poll and it goes the way you want, you are happy. I guess. It goes the other way, you are not happy.

But how many players even go to the forums and how many will take this poll?

You can make statistics say anything.

This is what SHOULD happen, imo.

1. Go back to OF.
2. Play OF for a week or so.
3. Then put a motd when you login to go to the forum and vote.
4. Tie the votes to account names, one vote per account.
5. Then post the results.
6. Then decide what we will do based on poll.

If it is close, no matter what, it should remain old frontier.

If new frontier blows it out, then switch to new frontier.

Do it once a month and if and when people want NF, then switch.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 1:20 PM by Saroi

In NF the RvR tasks needs to be removed.

People complained about twf farming in OF and here it is even more ridiculous. Stunbot running up to keeps to suicide to lay twf or camping at Beno and getting a lot of bonus rp's from your efforts have not been forgotten. Last time I checked yesterday 450k rp made, 60k from kills. So almost 400k extra rp just from the Task.

People saying you have to work for your rp's in NF and that is why people want OF back to camp Emain/Milegates again. It is clearly the opposite. NF rewards all those campers that are lazy to go to different zones and just camp their Main keep bridges and docs and let the action come to them for easy rp's.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 1:27 PM by Bobbahunter

I think we should have one more week of rotation. OF for a week then NF for another week. To many people are just figuring out NF to expect them to make a game changing decision. This way those who just got into NF can have one more chance to let everything sink in. Heck last night someone just realized they could port to bled and not have to take a boat there.

And no it was not me!

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:00 PM by cere2

Bobbahunter wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 1:27 PM
I think we should have one more week of rotation. OF for a week then NF for another week. To many people are just figuring out NF to expect them to make a game changing decision. This way those who just got into NF can have one more chance to let everything sink in. Heck last night someone just realized they could port to bled and not have to take a boat there.

And no it was not me!

I would be ok with this, as I have already had 3 months of OF...I'll just take a week long break.
To have NF for another week after that gives me another week to play!

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:03 PM by Krendos

Bobbahunter wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 1:27 PM
I think we should have one more week of rotation. OF for a week then NF for another week. To many people are just figuring out NF to expect them to make a game changing decision. This way those who just got into NF can have one more chance to let everything sink in. Heck last night someone just realized they could port to bled and not have to take a boat there.

And no it was not me!

I actually think this is legit. I started out not enjoying my time in NF as a visi player, figured I would take a walk on the stealther side, (just to learn and check out mechanics without getting perma ganked) switched realms played my scout for a night and had fun. I did figure a bunch of little things out in that process and will go back and play my visi players on the other side this weekend and see how it feels. Right now I am still up in the air, but warming up to it. I know when I played back in the day I liked NF, just hated ToA so wasn't really sure why I didn't like NF now, I reckon its that learning curve.

I do understand now why stealthers like it so much in general. It was funny playing by a bridge last night and when the action would roll one way, all the stealthers would start to move that direction. I saw 8 stealthers in view at one point and just laughed. These folks weren't in a group, (kept seeing them in fights in different spots afterwards) unless it was 2s here and there, but those 8 were just in my stealth bubble, I could only imagine how many others were about. Seems like a stealth and grouped up paradise right now.

People saying this is friendly for a solo visi player are just pulling strings right now too, rarely see any solo folks out there, but they are there, it's just not real viable unless you are roaming a long ways from the action, docks or bridges.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:08 PM by jhaerik

I'll say this much.

At this point the best solution might be to just include a rotation of NF and OF. Maybe 2 weeks of each per month.

If nothing else this would give both NF fans and OF fans something to look forward to.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:28 PM by cere2

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:08 PM
I'll say this much.

At this point the best solution might be to just include a rotation of NF and OF. Maybe 2 weeks of each per month.

If nothing else this would give both NF fans and OF fans something to look forward to.

As a permanent thing I would not be on board with that.
I can see extending the test to maybe a month of switching for a week each, but to have that switch permanent?
I'd rather just be hit with what the map will be and leave it there. Some will leave either way, but this server was never going to hold 3K population longer than it did.
Nostalgia wears off for most people and they move on....
Let's let the vote make the decision. At least then we both would know what the majority of players want.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:30 PM by Gweinyth

Bobbahunter wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 1:27 PM
I think we should have one more week of rotation. OF for a week then NF for another week. To many people are just figuring out NF to expect them to make a game changing decision. This way those who just got into NF can have one more chance to let everything sink in. Heck last night someone just realized they could port to bled and not have to take a boat there.

And no it was not me!

I agree. I was surprised by the number of people who have logged in the last two days to ask what happened to the frontier. And then ask how do I do xxx. I think it will take longer than one week for people to learn how to navigate and play in NF.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:47 PM by Payback-UC

Pls stop the NF. I came here for the old daoc Feeling and NF is one of the things that killed daoc in the past.
As i beginn playing on this Server there are more than 2500 Players online and now there are 700 on a Friday !
The last changes in the past went imho terrible wrong (Af Nerf, Salvage Nerf, NF fuc…..). Ask your self is this the way you will go for ya Server ?
Please Stop it.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:51 PM by Stoertebecker

Krendos wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:03 PM
Bobbahunter wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 1:27 PM
I think we should have one more week of rotation. OF for a week then NF for another week. To many people are just figuring out NF to expect them to make a game changing decision. This way those who just got into NF can have one more chance to let everything sink in. Heck last night someone just realized they could port to bled and not have to take a boat there.

And no it was not me!
People saying this is friendly for a solo visi player are just pulling strings right now too, rarely see any solo folks out there, but they are there, it's just not real viable unless you are roaming a long ways from the action, docks or bridges.

Because most of the classes don`t have any form of speed, no way to escape, no chance to kite. So they roam their own keeps.
That will change instantly if all have access to, mhm...casterspeed or what is was on live. (176% on live, breaks on damage, amnesie and such)

Maybe worth to think about, maybe not. I`m not sure as it has some effect on speed classes.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 3:03 PM by

Uthred

Sms wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 7:35 AM
good way to have a community remove all the negative post ppl make @devs @gm's.

this NF thing was/is very smart to do with this population,

think if you did this when there was actually more ppl playing the server.

yes i know this will be removed too, since only positive things are allowed on the forum i guess. to make it look like everyone loves the changes you make.

"Yikes you devs, are beyond stupid."

Thats why your post got deleted. If we would really delete every post that is negative about NF, then this thread would only have 24 pages instead of 48 pages.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 3:12 PM by vadox

some more suggestions:

1. In UO we had runes that you could use to teleport to a previously saved location. If we can buy this type of object for BPs let's say, we can use them to teleport to specific locations on the map. Maybe each port should cost 5 BPs as well.
2. Mining for materials - introduce Mining craft. We already have pick looking axe, let people travel around rvr zones and collect raw material.
3. Phishing - since so much water in NF, introduce Phishing profession. Players who are holding phishing poles should be immune to attacks from other players unless you cast 'un-stealth' and see that it's not really a phishing pole but something else.
4. Casting spells should use reagents that have to be picked up by traveling, trading (x-realming allowed).
5. Increase max level to 100 from 50. Lots of options here on what to give as you progress.

thoughts?

Fri 14 Jun 2019 3:13 PM by jackatom74

I want OF back too and I will patiently wait. I believe if I wanted NF when I came out of retirement I would have went back to live. I think OF with some new content would be a good mix. I will not lie I did enjoy the molvik event with the NF keep. I believe this is because it put all the action close, much like, win or lose I can always find a fight at the emain milegate. The porting that was added into OF recently was a big step in the right direction I will admit.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 3:19 PM by PingGuy

I might be leaning slightly towards NF so far, but really I'm not one who would quit the server over either one. With that said, if they hadn't recently changed the teleports in OF then it might be a different story. My least favorite things about OF were the run from DL/DC to anywhere, and dying to assassins 2 out of any 3 times I left any kind of keep.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 3:39 PM by Inkwell84

I think they needed to ride out and continue tweaking OF with teleport system.

Also NF keeps are impossible to take during NA prime time

Why not just give each realm one permanent keep in OF. Milegate congestion solved.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 4:11 PM by Stoertebecker

vadox wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 3:12 PM
some more suggestions:

1. In UO we had runes that you could use to teleport to a previously saved location. If we can buy this type of object for BPs let's say, we can use them to teleport to specific locations on the map. Maybe each port should cost 5 BPs as well.
2. Mining for materials - introduce Mining craft. We already have pick looking axe, let people travel around rvr zones and collect raw material.
3. Phishing - since so much water in NF, introduce Phishing profession. Players who are holding phishing poles should be immune to attacks from other players unless you cast 'un-stealth' and see that it's not really a phishing pole but something else.
4. Casting spells should use reagents that have to be picked up by traveling, trading (x-realming allowed).
5. Increase max level to 100 from 50. Lots of options here on what to give as you progress.

thoughts?

Noone after Mythic bailed out of DAoC invented really new stuff. Not EA, not Broadsword, noone. All what Broadsword did was copy+paste some stuff together, thats all.
I`d say points 2-5 are not possible, and point 5 must be a joke.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 4:18 PM by Azuell

relvinian wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 12:34 PM
What annoys me is the illusion of choice.

They have a poll and it goes the way you want, you are happy. I guess. It goes the other way, you are not happy.

But how many players even go to the forums and how many will take this poll?

You can make statistics say anything.

This is what SHOULD happen, imo.

1. Go back to OF.
2. Play OF for a week or so.
3. Then put a motd when you login to go to the forum and vote.
4. Tie the votes to account names, one vote per account.
5. Then post the results.
6. Then decide what we will do based on poll.

If it is close, no matter what, it should remain old frontier.

If new frontier blows it out, then switch to new frontier.

Do it once a month and if and when people want NF, then switch.

I agree that a poll on the forums isn't the best way to get the most statistically accurate results, but I'm not sure a message in game saying to go vote on the forum is gonna help much.

I think the best option would be to have an in game poll if that is even possible. My only idea is to have NPCs added with tokens for each voting option. You pick the token with the vote you want to cast and give it back to the NPC. If there is a way to track how many tokens of each type the merchant has received, this would work.

I definitely want them to get the best feel possible for what the whole population wants. I prefer NF but won't leave it they keep OF. I just don't want them to switch and then have half the server leave.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 4:32 PM by cere2

I definitely want them to get the best feel possible for what the whole population wants. I prefer NF but won't leave it they keep OF. I just don't want them to switch and then have half the server leave.
[/quote]

I think those numbers are a complete over-estimate on people that will leave if it goes either way.
There will certainly be some that leave, but don't discount those like myself who would come back.
I was unable to play last night due to RL, but the other days I did play I had a blast.
I just don't like the current system in OF, action is in Emain 90% just like Uthgard. Had enough of that there...

For me NF opens up areas that are rarely used, even if only for a time...like another realm trying to get port set up etc.
Relic raids required taking bled/glen/fens keeps just to open the gates, having another realms relic meant something. OF zergs just walk to it and take it. Then its taken back an hour later with no defense there either....
In my opinion NF just has so much more potential for the Dev's to make things awesome.
I also enjoy the non-los factors of NF and...the graphics are at least somewhat better.
OF feels like atari, NF feels like super-nintendo graphically speaking.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 4:40 PM by Turano

The problem i had with NF the last das was that when everyone has their own keeps and towers it is nothing else but zerging bridge and docks at dc/beno/bled.
If towers/keeps are taken you get oportunities to find some solo guys trying to get to the action

Fri 14 Jun 2019 4:47 PM by cere2

Turano wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 4:40 PM
The problem i had with NF the last das was that when everyone has their own keeps and towers it is nothing else but zerging bridge and docks at dc/beno/bled.
If towers/keeps are taken you get oportunities to find some solo guys trying to get to the action

I agree with this, and I think once guards are brought down to a level that you don't get insta-blapped trying to take a tower etc, more action will ensue.
I know some people hate zergs, but I have learned over the years that they are a necessary evil that create action wherever they go.
When zergs battle and attempt keep takes/portal cuts etc they create a better gaming environment for the rest of us.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 5:04 PM by Vkejai

To much tactics on towers just to break porting gets boring. Just get rid of towers and you then got a porting system like you currently have in OF. If you can get rid of towers that is.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 5:55 PM by inky2019

NF is not suitable for the current population maybe at the beginning yes but not now. I was drawn to this server because it did not have NF that was its appeal not the other leveling and rvr perks.

Either way alot of players will quit no matter which frontiers design prevails. I for one will leave if NF stays.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 6:07 PM by Arthoras

So... resumee of day 4 and 5:

best days in pvp ever. ever! wow i am having a blast. sure the first two days were bad. really bad. but after i do some work in learning the map and adapting to the new situation, i only can agree with the people who say that NF is a lot better for solo... so: i am sorry. i was wrong. NF is a lot of fun and it would be pleasure for me to play it more then this week.

so for me the test is over. no more resumee posts

Fri 14 Jun 2019 6:34 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

The only nice thing I can say about NF is that it's been a good week for PVE lawl

Fri 14 Jun 2019 6:37 PM by Gweinyth

Payback-UC wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:47 PM
Pls stop the NF. I came here for the old daoc Feeling and NF is one of the things that killed daoc in the past.
As i beginn playing on this Server there are more than 2500 Players online and now there are 700 on a Friday !
The last changes in the past went imho terrible wrong (Af Nerf, Salvage Nerf, NF fuc…..). Ask your self is this the way you will go for ya Server ?
Please Stop it.

Not sure where you are getting only 700. I just did serverinfo and there are over 1200 right now.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 6:37 PM by Jaxx

+1 no NF, i temporary no play but its sure i never play with NF, i have stop DAoC with NF...

Go Official for NF .. !

Fri 14 Jun 2019 6:37 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

During NA times its like 500-600 people, so that is many people who are gonna suffer with NF whereas OF worked in NA times even with less people. If the pop goes down even more with permanent NF it's just gonna get worse.
OF works for everybody even if you don't like milegates, if you don't like milegates I have a solution for you.

My solution is to allow porting to a keep you own in the main frontier zones Dun Crauchon/Bled/Beno even if it is a keep that is not in your realm frontier zone. So if albs own DC they can port to DC bypassing the milegate, this would solve the entire argument of NF people who are complaining about the milegates. That way the zerg lovers can band together to take a keep so that they can be able to get past the milegate via porting, it also gives them a reason to defend that keep.

With this change all time zones will not be disregarded by the choice of if they make NF permanent. All play styles and players should be welcome and NF does the opposite. Come up with a clever solution to make OF better for the haters, I just gave you a great one.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 6:58 PM by Saroi

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 6:37 PM
Payback-UC wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 2:47 PM
Pls stop the NF. I came here for the old daoc Feeling and NF is one of the things that killed daoc in the past.
As i beginn playing on this Server there are more than 2500 Players online and now there are 700 on a Friday !
The last changes in the past went imho terrible wrong (Af Nerf, Salvage Nerf, NF fuc…..). Ask your self is this the way you will go for ya Server ?
Please Stop it.

Not sure where you are getting only 700. I just did serverinfo and there are over 1200 right now.

His reply was 4 hours ago.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 7:38 PM by Word

inky2019 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 5:55 PM
NF is not suitable for the current population maybe at the beginning yes but not now. I was drawn to this server because it did not have NF that was its appeal not the other leveling and rvr perks.

Either way alot of players will quit no matter which frontiers design prevails. I for one will leave if NF stays.

Totally agree. It was great right after clustering when you had 3K plus playing but with 1200ish max on, the action is too spread out. NF = No Fun.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 8:00 PM by Anelyn77

Word wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 7:38 PM
inky2019 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 5:55 PM
NF is not suitable for the current population maybe at the beginning yes but not now. I was drawn to this server because it did not have NF that was its appeal not the other leveling and rvr perks.

Either way alot of players will quit no matter which frontiers design prevails. I for one will leave if NF stays.

Totally agree. It was great right after clustering when you had 3K plus playing but with 1200ish max on, the action is too spread out. NF = No Fun.

Am sorry what do you mean by that? You do realize that DaoC is old as it is, and even 150 vs 150 is a slug fest with effects turned off, no cloaks, no player names. If you get 500 vs 500 in an area, it will most likely crash the server.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 8:04 PM by Word

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 8:00 PM
Word wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 7:38 PM
inky2019 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 5:55 PM
NF is not suitable for the current population maybe at the beginning yes but not now. I was drawn to this server because it did not have NF that was its appeal not the other leveling and rvr perks.

Either way alot of players will quit no matter which frontiers design prevails. I for one will leave if NF stays.

Totally agree. It was great right after clustering when you had 3K plus playing but with 1200ish max on, the action is too spread out. NF = No Fun.

Am sorry what do you mean by that? You do realize that DaoC is old as it is, and even 150 vs 150 is a slug fest with effects turned off, no cloaks, no player names. If you get 500 vs 500 in an area, it will most likely crash the server.

I mean that NF was super fun just after the original clustering of the servers. At that time there was population to support the massive area that is NF. I do not mean there were 500 v 500 but there was literally action everywhere. It didn't last long but it was glorious. The current population of Phoenix is not large enough to support NF IMHO. Sorry if offended somehow.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 8:29 PM by Anelyn77

Not offended at all mate, just saying that game is old and has trouble with so many peeps on screen doing stuff at same time

/Bnotashamed 4L5 Healer

Fri 14 Jun 2019 9:09 PM by alusnova415

My 2c

Keep OF with NF like features:

- Keep porting
- /rw map with hotspots
- system wide message when a keep is being attacked (actual dmg to the door) thus people can react to defend.
- keeps level up and each level the rp reward increases and have a defender tick too.
- keeps should not be takeable by 8 man, make it 16-24 minimum for a lv1 keep.
- Each realm should have 1 permanent keep to port into (Briefine, Pennine and Jamtland) this prevents milegate blockade also helps hibs.
- Milegates - can you add stairs to both sides?
- Task System is good but people will still flock to emain. To help rotate the realms maybe institute a penalty to rps in a non active realm, rps should yield normal rps in an active task realm however if you pvp in a non active zone then is 20 or 25% less rps.

It would look like this :

-Participate in RvR (invade Albion)
-Take a keep in Albion ( keep xxxx)

And with a permanent port keep in a central zone with insta kill guards to protect the players , the defenders of that realm can get to the action and attempt to defend their realm.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 9:51 PM by cere2

How can anyone support the old keep system after playing NF is beyond me. OF keeps are just garbage. There is no changing them, no adding this or that, just stuck with what they are. Can implement porting to them yes...but a turd is still a turd

Fri 14 Jun 2019 10:01 PM by Mavella

Who gives the fuck about keeps when they literally mean nothing on this server?? Relics are worthless therefore keeps are worthless. The keep task multipler is just abusable as demonstrated by Stunbot. People want to pvp not pvdoor. Pvdoor could spur pvp if relics were threatened but that doesn't matter here. Incentivizing pvdoor with tasks and multipliers was a mistake.

NF vs OF doesn't change that fact. One thing that is clear this server does not have the population to support spread out action in NF. It'll kill NA action and then the server will be empty after 8EST and it'll be a repeat of Uthgard1 back when I played. Even emain was empty after a certain hour back then. I also dealt with the same shit on RoR for years.

It's. Not. Fun.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 10:20 PM by mhenfhis

Mavella wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 10:01 PM
Who gives the fuck about keeps when they literally mean nothing on this server?? Relics are worthless therefore keeps are worthless. The keep task multipler is just abusable as demonstrated by Stunbot. People want to pvp not pvdoor. Pvdoor could spur pvp if relics were threatened but that doesn't matter here. Incentivizing pvdoor with tasks and multipliers was a mistake.

NF vs OF doesn't change that fact. One thing that is clear this server does not have the population to support spread out action in NF. It'll kill NA action and then the server will be empty after 8EST and it'll be a repeat of Uthgard1 back when I played. Even emain was empty after a certain hour back then. I also dealt with the same shit on RoR for years.

It's. Not. Fun.

Some kind of quest or obelisk like live has to direct action to certains zones maybe will help a bit.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 10:34 PM by Leandrys

Phoenix now pays the bill for the original OF choice, 65% of the initial population is gone now and for the most of them won't come back. Great choice, great vote during beta (100% not biaised by a few guilds calling their mates to vote OF, and even so they couldn't go further than 50% for OF), great result.

So what are we doing now ? Back to the Old Crap thing which will acheive Phoenix in 9 months or stay with NF which is much better but lacks population now most of it is gone ?

The original sin, Daoc version, deal with choices from the past and their actual consequences, good luck.

PS : at this point, i'd say yes for permanent Molvik Event, OF is uber trash and there's no point in coming back to that useless map, if we can't sustain enough players for NF, there's no point coming back to OF, give us a real arena and be it, Phoenix allready missed its own point, there won't be any come back.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 11:09 PM by Halcyon702

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 10:34 PM
Phoenix now pays the bill for the original OF choice, 65% of the initial population is gone now and for the most of them won't come back. Great choice, great vote during beta (100% not biaised by a few guilds calling their mates to vote OF, and even so they couldn't go further than 50% for OF), great result.

So what are we doing now ? Back to the Old Crap thing which will acheive Phoenix in 9 months or stay with NF which is much better but lacks population now most of it is gone ?

The original sin, Daoc version, deal with choices from the past and their actual consequences, good luck.

PS : at this point, i'd say yes for permanent Molvik Event, OF is uber trash and there's no point in coming back to that useless map, if we can't sustain enough players for NF, there's no point coming back to OF, give us a real arena and be it, Phoenix allready missed its own point, there won't be any come back.

Molvik will arrive soon enough, when the pop is so low its the only thing people can do.

Fri 14 Jun 2019 11:17 PM by Mavella

This NF test also didn't prompt some mass exodus back to the server. If you people think that 3000-4000 pop was going to sustain I'll have some of what you're smoking. I'm sure for most it was fun to try for nostalgia/old times sake again and they were going to move on either way. A core of 1000-1500 is what I expected the server to settle in and that's what it's been at for weeks. Sticking to NF is only going to alienate more people that came back for the classic experience and shrink the pop further. Making more massive changes that no one asked for post launch is going continue to eat away at that core(how many people started playing again after charge nerf vs quit??) . When it's totally dead during NA we can call this pig uthgard with a different shade of lipstick.

Fix some of the flaws of OF to make it more approachable. (This was being worked ok before this Ill advised "test"

. Make note that a some of the more vocal proponents of NF weren't even playing here the past few weeks/months. They aren't your core and they will be gone again before long no matter the outcome of this debate. Stop making keeps into RP dispensers whether they are occupied or not. Give RvR some actual meaning besides wacking on each other to make RPs fall out (relics and worthwhile bonuses to strive for/defend).

Fri 14 Jun 2019 11:39 PM by gotwqqd

What if mjlegate stairs had doors that only the defending realm could access and get on the wall

Sat 15 Jun 2019 1:48 AM by Fugax

I've enjoyed NF since release. I enjoy seeing the zerg fights not zerg near me, and the small mans being able to run around. I also like the idea of having mult areas to go too to gank if needed. I have noticed that many stealth feel the need to zerg even more so now with NF, and i've not been able to put my finger on that...

PPL have been ranting about the classic feel of things due to NF. Yet, I have not seen a soul bitch about the free RPS you make every 30 min when you rvr. Pretty sure this wasn't classic like...

IT has also been a nice change of pace as we are not camping/being camped at a damn Mile gate, and then running to ones PK. How on earth dose anyone find that shit fun, day in and day out?

Over all I personally have enjoyed NF, and found OF to be too small for the amount of ppl at time. Mostly euro prime time.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 2:24 AM by Halcyon702

Well groups are done, cant find a single fight to break 5k per/h

Thankfully our Reaver bud Stunbot has figured out the way forward and has kindly demonstrated the new format of RvR

RIP server, was nice while it lasted

Sat 15 Jun 2019 3:21 AM by cere2

Mavella wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 10:01 PM
Who gives the fuck about keeps when they literally mean nothing on this server?? Relics are worthless therefore keeps are worthless. The keep task multipler is just abusable as demonstrated by Stunbot. People want to pvp not pvdoor. Pvdoor could spur pvp if relics were threatened but that doesn't matter here. Incentivizing pvdoor with tasks and multipliers was a mistake.

NF vs OF doesn't change that fact. One thing that is clear this server does not have the population to support spread out action in NF. It'll kill NA action and then the server will be empty after 8EST and it'll be a repeat of Uthgard1 back when I played. Even emain was empty after a certain hour back then. I also dealt with the same shit on RoR for years.

It's. Not. Fun.

Yeah ok, this week during the test relics don't mean anything. They do mean something if we go NF, and what they actually mean can be adjusted by the dev's. Can copy what Live did with them or something entirely different to make them even more important. Keeps are what kept Live going for 18 years, so if you think they are meaningless perhaps you only play one style on daoc. Pvdoor is the description of OF.

Either way the pop will decide via a vote and we shall see what most people enjoyed more. Looking forward to that

Sat 15 Jun 2019 3:38 AM by Mavella

cere2 wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 3:21 AM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 10:01 PM
Who gives the fuck about keeps when they literally mean nothing on this server?? Relics are worthless therefore keeps are worthless. The keep task multipler is just abusable as demonstrated by Stunbot. People want to pvp not pvdoor. Pvdoor could spur pvp if relics were threatened but that doesn't matter here. Incentivizing pvdoor with tasks and multipliers was a mistake.

NF vs OF doesn't change that fact. One thing that is clear this server does not have the population to support spread out action in NF. It'll kill NA action and then the server will be empty after 8EST and it'll be a repeat of Uthgard1 back when I played. Even emain was empty after a certain hour back then. I also dealt with the same shit on RoR for years.

It's. Not. Fun.

Yeah ok, this week during the test relics don't mean anything. They do mean something if we go NF, and what they actually mean can be adjusted by the dev's. Can copy what Live did with them or something entirely different to make them even more important. Keeps are what kept Live going for 18 years, so if you think they are meaningless perhaps you only play one style on daoc. Pvdoor is the description of OF.

Either way the pop will decide via a vote and we shall see what most people enjoyed more. Looking forward to that

Log in right now and ask ANYONE what the current implementation of relic bonuses have been the last 6 months. Most won't be able to tell you. Getting and keeping those bonuses were the main driver behind a lot of keep action the first few years of the game. Maybe if it didn't take you 3+ years to "figure out the game" you'd understand that. Devs have purposely made them worthless and impossible to hold for an appreciable amount of time effectively breaking that part of the game. Instead they turned keeps/towers into RP piñatas that are open to abuse as demonstrated by the screenshots about Stunbot.

Also, I was on at 5EST this morning and its pilz zerg mowing down alb towers unopposed so the entire map is dotted green. Please don't act like this any different than OF was. It's just a larger map thats not any more conducive to actual PvP just more PvDoor. It's just on towers now not actual keeps.

It's a joke.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 4:45 AM by MacPrior

Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 3:38 AM
Also, I was on at 5EST this morning and its pilz zerg mowing down alb towers unopposed so the entire map is dotted green. Please don't act like this any different than OF was. It's just a larger map thats not any more conducive to actual PvP just more PvDoor. It's just on towers now not actual keeps.

It's a joke.

NF Keep fights are very interesting. There are different tactics possible and every realm seems to enjoy it. Thats way Pv Doors, as you said.
I like it very much. Its even possible to defend a part of keep against Zerg just bunkered in a part of keep wall. Its just great!

Sat 15 Jun 2019 4:59 AM by Loki

Halcyon702 wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 2:24 AM
Well groups are done, cant find a single fight to break 5k per/h

Thankfully our Reaver bud Stunbot has figured out the way forward and has kindly demonstrated the new format of RvR

RIP server, was nice while it lasted

He suicides and TWFs Bledmeer or Crauchon gates, killing afkers in the process and getting keep bonuses. But ye, RIP server cus you can't find fights.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 5:53 AM by DasBier

Yeah devs have to read this and to do something against it. Stunbot is using this Feature the whole week and gets 2,5 Million realmpoints.
Thats totaly gamebreaking.

Implement a cap of task/bonus rps u can get in one day.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:18 AM by kvothe

DasBier wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 5:53 AM
Yeah devs have to read this and to do something against it. Stunbot is using this Feature the whole week and gets 2,5 Million realmpoints.
Thats totaly gamebreaking.

Implement a cap of task/bonus rps u can get in one day.

Well atm the system favours 10h++ per day players massively since you need that time to acquire the x10 multiplier.
Still not Stunbots fault pointing that out.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:40 AM by Halcyon702

Mavella wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 10:01 PM
Who gives the fuck about keeps when they literally mean nothing on this server?? Relics are worthless therefore keeps are worthless. The keep task multipler is just abusable as demonstrated by Stunbot. People want to pvp not pvdoor. Pvdoor could spur pvp if relics were threatened but that doesn't matter here. Incentivizing pvdoor with tasks and multipliers was a mistake. b

NF vs OF doesn't change that fact. One thing that is clear this server does not have the population to support spread out action in NF. It'll kill NA action and then the server will be empty after 8EST and it'll be a repeat of Uthgard1 back when I played. Even emain was empty after a certain hour back then. I also dealt with the same shit on RoR for years.

It's. Not. Fun.

Yep exactly, since relics are POINTLESS people just focus on RP, ranking up to go out and find action and be a stronger presence on the field.

Since Task Credit requirements were removed, now applying to all RvR zones people have chosen the most efficient method to gain RP, Emain.

People want to Rank Up, they want action, they want to be able to feel like part of a team/community. Since the keeps are tuned to only incentivize said purpose (RP bonus), the two playstyles begin to build off each other- people will rank up doing keeps and tasks, and after some time they can field a strong team and go out Hunting.
Consider for a moment the Pilz zerg. He isn't taking keeps for any purpose other than fun and RP for the Hib community, closest equivalent we have to doing something "for the realm". He does this to help lower RR players, and folks who cant find a group go out and try to rank up off the keeps and defenders, he could accomplish this with 10+ down to 2-3 groups in the slower times, and now notice the comparative drop in his success and participation since NF.
Whereas before, Pilz & crew would flip many keeps each day, defenders or not, they could accomplish the goal and this is no longer the case. Now people are just randomly zerging with no direction or hope of achieving anything except mindless zerging because aside from solo Reaver twf bombing doors there is no clear path forward. It is bad for the people he was building up, it is bad for what they hoped and worked for moving forward.

An addendum, and digression on The Hunt, and how it may apply to pvp.

Humans have a deeply ingrained response to hunting, and catching prey. It is the reason a 4yr old child might feel excitement if they catch a butterfly out of the air with their hands, or some other critter they've been chasing. For the ancient humans, if the hunter caught their prey, it meant they got to eat! Which also meant the family/tribe/people would survive a little longer as well.

How this applies to games or DAoC is as follows, you're roaming around the frontiers, solo, duo, small, 8, zerg. You are hunting the prey/enemy realm. You spot the target, instantly you feel that spark the ancient humans felt spotting a prey animal. You assess the situation and any threats, you quickly choose disengage/reposition or fight. Win, and you bring in the hypothetical meat for your team, your realm, and thus becoming better at it comes with its own feeling of additional satisfaction.

One thing people will quickly get tired of is hard diminishing returns for this aspect of things, being pigeonholed or forced into a type of welfare situation where exploiting the new system becomes the best way to advance. Because what does it advance towards? More counter intuitive farming circumstances? That's where things are now, you fight for scraps on the keep zerg, or you do not advance.

If there is to be a steady, dedicated group of players out having fun at all times of day, these are my suggestions to keep the action hot, the RPs moving, and the community interested.

Return us to Task rotation with alb/hib/mid frontier requirement. Continue to allow Keep teleports. Open Molvik each weekend.

You cover all your bases in terms of what various players like to do, it doesn't go back on any initial impressions, and you don't alienate half of the community to the point of exodus.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 7:30 AM by Jaxx

Halcyon702 wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 2:24 AM
Well groups are done, cant find a single fight to break 5k per/h

Thankfully our Reaver bud Stunbot has figured out the way forward and has kindly demonstrated the new format of RvR

RIP server, was nice while it lasted

Yes...... now is just a big deception :/

Sat 15 Jun 2019 7:35 AM by Druth

Yesterday at 4pm CET, I ran around; solo, non-speed, visi, on my thane around Renaris Docks, Hibs had broken pretty much all ports.
Didn't attack xp'ers (only found a grey...), killed some 8-10 people in roughly 1hour, and ended at around 12-15k rps, despite getting vanished on twice.

Logged out in the area at the end, and logged in today only to find someone xp'ing on green mobs, so let him live (guessing he was lvl 37 or so).
And cided out.

Point is, you don't have to coast guard/zerg to get rps, but you do have to put a little more effort in it than run PK-MG.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:18 AM by tena6ous

inky2019 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 5:55 PM
NF is not suitable for the current population maybe at the beginning yes but not now. I was drawn to this server because it did not have NF that was its appeal not the other leveling and rvr perks.

Either way alot of players will quit no matter which frontiers design prevails. I for one will leave if NF stays.

NF not suitable for current population ? Dunno where you get that from cause current population is actively playing NF and there is action everywhere on the maps.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 10:59 AM by Lateigne

Its ok for me

Sat 15 Jun 2019 12:18 PM by Saroi

I don't understand how anyone can say you need to put more effort in NF.

All the people camping their Docks and bridges at the last keep make 20-25k rp's per hour. They do not move a bit, let the action come to them and zerg them down. I made my BD 50 now and camped Bled and it was heaven for rp's with absolutely 0 effort but not fun at all for me. NF has been way more zergy than OF ever been. And the zergs still avoid eachother.

5-6 Hib groups were around Arv, some Mids wrote in Channel and tried to defend but noone gave a fuck. You had 3-4 Midgroups just roaming around DC like usual. Guess Emain is just some sort of Mid sickness. There was a huge Albzerg and they were camping Beno for a bit, like usual Albs just sit in front of Beno till some enemies come. Guess that also never changes and brings back memories of Live, when barely 100 Albs were just camping Alb tower. And in the morning with less action Pilzpower is taking his keeps again.

Same as people saying NF get respected 1v1. That is also bullshit, adding and zerging is all the same. It is not that people change their mentality just because there is a different zone, it is player based. And everyone just sees rp's. And seeing how much some rp's people can do, everyone just see more rp's rp's rp's to heavily farm out what this week can give you.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 1:13 PM by MacPrior

Saroi wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 12:18 PM
I don't understand how anyone can say you need to put more effort in NF.

All the people camping their Docks and bridges at the last keep make 20-25k rp's per hour. They do not move a bit, let the action come to them and zerg them down. I made my BD 50 now and camped Bled and it was heaven for rp's with absolutely 0 effort but not fun at all for me. NF has been way more zergy than OF ever been. And the zergs still avoid eachother.

5-6 Hib groups were around Arv, some Mids wrote in Channel and tried to defend but noone gave a fuck. You had 3-4 Midgroups just roaming around DC like usual. Guess Emain is just some sort of Mid sickness. There was a huge Albzerg and they were camping Beno for a bit, like usual Albs just sit in front of Beno till some enemies come. Guess that also never changes and brings back memories of Live, when barely 100 Albs were just camping Alb tower. And in the morning with less action Pilzpower is taking his keeps again.

Same as people saying NF get respected 1v1. That is also bullshit, adding and zerging is all the same. It is not that people change their mentality just because there is a different zone, it is player based. And everyone just sees rp's. And seeing how much some rp's people can do, everyone just see more rp's rp's rp's to heavily farm out what this week can give you.

The post is just funny. In what world you live?

You did plenty of RPs, had tonne of action and it was no fun for you... what a pitty... why dont you go somewhere else, instead of the farming a doc?

Second. People saying, NF respected 1Vs1. ... Why it should? Nobody has to respect 1 vs 1. Or 8 vs 8 . But , if you have fun on solo or 8er, just do it and enjoy the game. The only thing - NF provides to 1vs1 or small vs small or 8 vs 8 more possiblility to do this. That`s all.

And be sure, lot of people keep playing daoc not because of RPs. They would like to have actions, differend kind of them, And NF is superior to OF in that question.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 1:57 PM by gotwqqd

Set rp “multiplier” @ 5x right off the bat so casuals aren’t left in dust.
Then have multiplier cap at x2 after 10 hours session

Sat 15 Jun 2019 2:16 PM by OptimusPolak

I love it.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 2:31 PM by Shamissa

At this point , i also think going back to OF gonna suck ass with the old looking of everything. Keep NF , bring Molvik battleground, speed of hunter and we will be fine. Thank you

Sat 15 Jun 2019 2:37 PM by Beren

If NF became the permanent frontier system for phoenix, some playstyles will come to an end,
mostly due to the teleport-instant-action feature of NF:

Solo and solo stealther game:
After some days of playing clearly people have realized, that soloing is no viable option at the hot spots anymore.
Soloing basically stopped one or two days ago, with swarms of small men, stealthgrps and fg roaming arround the portal keep areas,
bridges and dropoffs with speed 5-6.
There are only very few occassions, when you can camp a travelling route, that is not being roamed by those gank squads totally and permanently.

Keepzergs:
Keeps are easy to defend in NF. Players can just port into the attacked keep. The Keeps have strong guards and can be defended due to a very good keep structure from within by the players. In OF Keeps the limited Structure prevented players from doing this, because they faced the walls and jumping onto them in order to cast at or shoot the attackers was an invitation to be killed.
While it is a very nice strategic mechanism to fight for porting routes and possibilities, the daily Keepzerg BGs, that many loved as a playstyle in OF,
will eventually come to an end with NF. With the recent nerfs to earning rps via keeptaking and fighting this playstyle will have much too little reward to be carried on.

Tasking:
Tasking now is so boring, having to go to either one of the enemy porterkeeps,
i wonder how long players will be able to stand it. I hate it already.

Furthermore it has to be said, that in my opinion NF structures and Terrain are quite beautifully done, but they lack the "Soul", that OF has.
The uniqueness of each realm and zone gets lost as well.
OF maps with NF-ish Keeps, that would ideally be a little bit smaller, which i know might not be doable, that would be in my opinion the optimum for this game.

But if NF-Keeps can't be implemented into OF, then i'd clearly prefer to have the worse keeps of OF,
in order to keep OF.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 3:17 PM by Horus

I was a naysayer....but i have to admit, after getting the feel for things, I like it.

I withdraw my opinion to keep OF.

Although it will be tricky for new players leveling up trying to find exp mobs in the frontier using the old wiki...but i guess a new challenge is not that bad.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 3:56 PM by Delegator

Overall, after playing for a week as I could (not hard core, but probably 10 hours logged in NF), I am not as negative on it as I was but I also don't see why anybody thinks it is such a good thing as some fanbois do.

Camping milegates and PKs has turned into camping docks and dropoff points
Hibs & Albs at SF has turned into Hibs & Albs at Bled
The porting still makes it difficult for a stealther to find targets aside from the above camping spots
Stealth zergs work bridges instead of roads
Keep takes are replaced mostly by tower takes

Basically, those who claim that there is more 8-man action and less zerging...wake up! You could have been doing this in OF instead of zerging emain. It was always possible, particularly with the porting available...you just didn't do it!

Now, it is difficult to judge without relics what effect that will have, and the short-term MOB population will likely change, so that's hard to judge.

Mostly, the event was really frustrating to people like me (and I've heard from others in guild about this as well) who never played NF before. It would really have benefited from there being a guide for things like how boats work (you can stealth before getting in but not while riding, how to disembark, etc.), where you are likely to find action of various types, dealing with drop zones, and so on.

Also, the increase to 45 minutes for realm tasks was not a help. It made it less possible to switch characters ("Oh shoot, I just got a kill near Bledmeer, but the defend task still has 40 minutes to run so I guess I have to stay on this character"

. All in all, the constant tinkering with the task system is getting tiresome.

Anyway, this "one week test" never felt like it was a legitimate test at all. I never had the feeling that there was a real chance that the original frontiers would be retained no matter what, due to the changes in the patcher and such. All in all I don't expect this to help, but to the extent that it is unapproachable without help for people who haven't experienced NF before, it could hurt.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 5:31 PM by Druth

Beren wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 2:37 PM
After some days of playing clearly people have realized, that soloing is no viable option at the hot spots anymore.

I am sorry, but I really don't understand, when was solo ever a viable option in hot spots?

Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:01 PM by Beren

Druth wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 5:31 PM
Beren wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 2:37 PM
After some days of playing clearly people have realized, that soloing is no viable option at the hot spots anymore.

I am sorry, but I really don't understand, when was solo ever a viable option in hot spots?

Your question is valid.
It is rather the absence of any other spots, other than the hot spots, that is the problem.
You just don't find good action elsewhere. Period.

In OF you could just go to Hadrian's Wall or OG and there were some travelling routes instead of porting,
that one could camp without being zerged 100% surely. Ofc the devs could create those opportunities also in NF,
but in this version they don't exist.

You could have easily interpreted my sentence in that way,
but i think attacking the unwanted opinion was the true intent, so you ask a hypocritical question.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:22 PM by Delegator

Beren wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:01 PM
In OF you could just go to Hadrian's Wall or OG and there were some travelling routes instead of porting,
that one could camp without being zerged 100% surely. Ofc the devs could create those opportunities also in NF,
but in this version they don't exist.

I agree with this completely. But, I think it wasn't so much a consequence of NF, but of adding the /rw porting directly to keeps. There is no reason to run down a road now, just port to a keep to defend. The closest analog is the drop-off points for boats, but those are not the same as choke points like milegates, or roads that people would take. NF has definitely made it harder for solo (or even duo) stealthers.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:39 PM by Beren

Delegator wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:22 PM
Beren wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:01 PM
In OF you could just go to Hadrian's Wall or OG and there were some travelling routes instead of porting,
that one could camp without being zerged 100% surely. Ofc the devs could create those opportunities also in NF,
but in this version they don't exist.

I agree with this completely. But, I think it wasn't so much a consequence of NF, but of adding the /rw porting directly to keeps. There is no reason to run down a road now, just port to a keep to defend. The closest analog is the drop-off points for boats, but those are not the same as choke points like milegates, or roads that people would take. NF has definitely made it harder for solo (or even duo) stealthers.

Yes, i agree, it is the Map + porting opportunity.
It allows anyone, any 8man to port to the fight in a very short time.
Before they didn't know about the fight and couldn't get there fast.
Now it is good to port and farm ppl, zerging occurs, frustrating for the other playstyles impacted by this. Everywhere.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:00 PM by stormbrewer

After playing NF for nearly a week now, it is obvious to me that NF caters to larger guilds and hardcore players. For the smaller guilds and casual players there is not much fun to be had. Unless there is a keep take BG going, good luck finding a group. I do prefer sieging in NF better than OF, but I can only take so much mindless zerg on zerg rvr. I don't hate NF but I do prefer OF, and I think the large guilds will all vote for NF so its probably here to stay. If the devs could consider giving us Molvik or Cathal Valley for level 50 battleground with no RR cap, I would be ok with NF sticking around.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:13 PM by Uncontrollololable

I personally prefer Of compared to Nf I was just getting used to Of and how everything was set up but now I can run around for a while and never see anyone most times.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:24 PM by CancunLoon

stormbrewer wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:00 PM
After playing NF for nearly a week now, it is obvious to me that NF caters to larger guilds and hardcore players. For the smaller guilds and casual players there is not much fun to be had. Unless there is a keep take BG going, good luck finding a group. I do prefer sieging in NF better than OF, but I can only take so much mindless zerg on zerg rvr. I don't hate NF but I do prefer OF, and I think the large guilds will all vote for NF so its probably here to stay. If the devs could consider giving us Molvik or Cathal Valley for level 50 battleground with no RR cap, I would be ok with NF sticking around.

right......... NF is nonsense..... IMHO

Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:34 PM by cere2

Beren wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:39 PM
Delegator wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:22 PM
Beren wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:01 PM
In OF you could just go to Hadrian's Wall or OG and there were some travelling routes instead of porting,
that one could camp without being zerged 100% surely. Ofc the devs could create those opportunities also in NF,
but in this version they don't exist.

I agree with this completely. But, I think it wasn't so much a consequence of NF, but of adding the /rw porting directly to keeps. There is no reason to run down a road now, just port to a keep to defend. The closest analog is the drop-off points for boats, but those are not the same as choke points like milegates, or roads that people would take. NF has definitely made it harder for solo (or even duo) stealthers.

Yes, i agree, it is the Map + porting opportunity.
It allows anyone, any 8man to port to the fight in a very short time.
Before they didn't know about the fight and couldn't get there fast.
Now it is good to port and farm ppl, zerging occurs, frustrating for the other playstyles impacted by this. Everywhere.

Since this is only a test, I think some adjustments could be made if we are to keep NF.

#1. Guards, they have been adjusted today so no chance to test the damage they do now since that change. However, I think assassin's should be able to be inside some of these ports and be able to kill inside keep without being insta-killed by guards. Guards should definitely do some damage to them, but they should be able to get to a rampart of something to get out of trouble in time etc. This would also help attacking realms clear some casters etc from walls.

#2. Porting. Hate to say copy what Live did, but....should probably copy what Live did. No ports except to relic keeps, central keep and cruach, bled, beno.
This allows for realms attacking to have a better shot of opening ports etc. And keeps a zerg from instant porting to coastal keeps thus killing any possible action they tried to create.
In addition this will help out with solo/small/8man due to it creating paths that defenders must take to get to coastal keeps under attack.

#3. Boats...not sure if I like being able to use other realms dockmasters or not....but kind of odd to see some group being chased just bailing out at Cruachon dock, and taking a boat to Crim....maybe it is a good thing....I'm undecided on this atm.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 9:40 PM by cuuchulain79

It's a shame that the population will take a hit no matter what...

I really don't think 6 months into a servers life is the time to start "trying out NF to end speculation" I think that's more of a beta thing....? Or just let speculation be speculation?

Anyway, it's always been a bummer to see the 6 OF relic keeps be under utilized here. They're fun to attack, fun to defend...

Anyway good luck! I hope the population loss is worth "ending speculation."

Sat 15 Jun 2019 9:54 PM by Sindralor

Fought and seen alot of Hibs I've never had the pleasure with, definately prefer it like this

Sat 15 Jun 2019 10:27 PM by gotwqqd

Get rid of BG’s except for the chat

Sat 15 Jun 2019 10:39 PM by ulf

Hi

On Nf, you have 2 bg hib et alb taking keeps and towers .. empty

and you have 2 or 3 fg of each realm camping their keep : crauchon, bled, beno.

Elann vannin and the other zones are empty.

Yes doing a travel between Amg and Mmg its not very funny on old frontier, but i do more rps, and i dont need to search some targets

I prefer Old frontier.

Sat 15 Jun 2019 11:21 PM by Tarticus74

After giving it a week and many hours played in NF I have a mixed bag.

One day it's awesome next it's complete junk and I mean junk one day I did 30 solo kills killing albs from there relic gate as they couldn't port anywhere that was like 14:00hrs UK time till about 16:00 was amazing fun.

Then other days I have struggles to get a fight or the zerg has been too much maybe I'm missing sometjing. I know I can camp the docs and had some decent action but all in all I think I would go OF

Sat 15 Jun 2019 11:36 PM by cere2

cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 9:40 PM
It's a shame that the population will take a hit no matter what...

I really don't think 6 months into a servers life is the time to start "trying out NF to end speculation" I think that's more of a beta thing....? Or just let speculation be speculation?

Anyway, it's always been a bummer to see the 6 OF relic keeps be under utilized here. They're fun to attack, fun to defend...

Anyway good luck! I hope the population loss is worth "ending speculation."

When is/has any OF keep fun to defend or attack? I mean I understand you enjoy OF more, but at least make a good comparison of why OF would be better, because any keeps in OF are trash and everyone knows it.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 12:09 AM by cuuchulain79

Hi cere2, read the post again...

I talk about the under utilized _______ keeps of OF.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 12:44 AM by cere2

cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 12:09 AM
Hi cere2, read the post again...

I talk about the under utilized _______ keeps of OF.

Cuuch, what you said after that, is that they are fun to attack, fun to defend.
I was saying all keeps in OF, utilized or not are not fun to attack or defend.
They simply have terrible builds, up on hills, terrible los issues, terrible inner keeps, terrible walls.
Just overall trash. Even Mythic knew they were junk and that's why they put so much time into building new keeps after just 1 year of OF.
Took them almost a year to get NF complete and then implemented.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 12:54 AM by cuuchulain79

All i'm saying is the relic keeps in OF are fun & that it's a shame they were never really made a part of the Phoenix RvR task scene.

It's pretty obvious you've got a raging pants-tent for NF...

Players who disagree with you, should NF come to Phoenix, will simply leave...you can't sit here and convince them NF is "better."

Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:03 AM by MacPrior

ulf wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 10:39 PM
On Nf, you have 2 bg hib et alb taking keeps and towers .. empty

and you have 2 or 3 fg of each realm camping their keep : crauchon, bled, beno.

Elann vannin and the other zones are empty.

Yes doing a travel between Amg and Mmg its not very funny on old frontier, but i do more rps, and i dont need to search some targets

I am very sorry, but in Elann Vanin is plenty of 8 vs 8 groups now, doing a clean group-RvR.
Since NF Test begann, I made all kind of RvR - Zerging, SmallGroup, 8er Group and was running solo. It was each time funny.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:16 AM by knarfknarf

It’s quite funny that the handful of NF fan girls that are extremely vocal on the forums, only think that their opinions are the ones that matter. You say oh just quit blah blah blah etc. , yet you can’t understand that if they implement NF a good chunk of people will stop playing. And then all it will take is wow classic for the final nail in the coffin.. no point trying to give our input of things, most of you already “know” NF is the best and the right direction for the server.. all of the hate that has been created from this potential change is coming from the NF’ets side, not the other way around.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:20 AM by teiloh

cere2 wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 11:36 PM
cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 9:40 PM
It's a shame that the population will take a hit no matter what...

I really don't think 6 months into a servers life is the time to start "trying out NF to end speculation" I think that's more of a beta thing....? Or just let speculation be speculation?

Anyway, it's always been a bummer to see the 6 OF relic keeps be under utilized here. They're fun to attack, fun to defend...

Anyway good luck! I hope the population loss is worth "ending speculation."

When is/has any OF keep fun to defend or attack? I mean I understand you enjoy OF more, but at least make a good comparison of why OF would be better, because any keeps in OF are trash and everyone knows it.

Neither are fun but at least the OF keeps go down faster

Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:26 AM by cere2

knarfknarf wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:16 AM
It’s quite funny that the handful of NF fan girls that are extremely vocal on the forums, only think that their opinions are the ones that matter. You say oh just quit blah blah blah etc. , yet you can’t understand that if they implement NF a good chunk of people will stop playing. And then all it will take is wow classic for the final nail in the coffin.. no point trying to give our input of things, most of you already “know” NF is the best and the right direction for the server.. all of the hate that has been created from this potential change is coming from the NF’ets side, not the other way around.

Odd that you think it is only a handful that think NF is more enjoyable.
I think on forums its pretty close to like/dislike.
The problem I see if the OF fan girls always threaten that if it's changed they will leave etc.
Most of what you call NF fan girls are saying it would be great if NF is implemented but I will still play for now either way.
So who can we then infer are the doomsdayers of this thread atm?

Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:29 AM by cere2

cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 12:54 AM
All i'm saying is the relic keeps in OF are fun & that it's a shame they were never really made a part of the Phoenix RvR task scene.

It's pretty obvious you've got a raging pants-tent for NF...

Players who disagree with you, should NF come to Phoenix, will simply leave...you can't sit here and convince them NF is "better."

And perhaps some will come back, those like myself. Because you also cant convince me that OF is "better"
So perhaps it will offset. No matter what with WoW vanilla garbage coming soon, I am sure there will be more lost to that than anything happening now.
Oh and I highly doubt all the players who disagree with NF will all leave, might be some but definitely not all.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:52 AM by cuuchulain79

One thing about freeshards...the "people will come back if we change x" 99% of the time doesn't work.

Relying on, "Sure some will leave....but others will come back...." Yikes. 6 months into the server and that's the population strategy....?

All this to "end speculation?"

I just don't get it....they made a nice server....but so eager to change things...and for some reason the staff feel threatened by Blizzard?

Sun 16 Jun 2019 2:38 AM by cere2

History has a way of repeating itself sometimes.
After NF was released, Daoc had its highest recorded population, 5 months later, 3 mmorpg's were released including WoW and there was a massive population dip.
Those are facts. Some say it was because of ToA, some say it was because of NF, but evidence points otherwise.
I wouldn't say they are scared, they just have intuition.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 3:08 AM by cuuchulain79

Intuition or hubris....

This is a teeny freeshard of a niche old game...

Yip...Blizzard is cashing in on Vanilla WoW...

Apparently DAoC freeshards need to do....?...in anticipation of this monumental event?

Sun 16 Jun 2019 7:21 AM by Druth

Beren wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 6:01 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 5:31 PM
Beren wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 2:37 PM
After some days of playing clearly people have realized, that soloing is no viable option at the hot spots anymore.

I am sorry, but I really don't understand, when was solo ever a viable option in hot spots?

Your question is valid.
It is rather the absence of any other spots, other than the hot spots, that is the problem.
You just don't find good action elsewhere. Period.

In OF you could just go to Hadrian's Wall or OG and there were some travelling routes instead of porting,
that one could camp without being zerged 100% surely. Ofc the devs could create those opportunities also in NF,
but in this version they don't exist.

You could have easily interpreted my sentence in that way,
but i think attacking the unwanted opinion was the true intent, so you ask a hypocritical question.

Don't say hot spots then...
And don't say "period", because I do fine solo away from hot spots, so it can't be period. That YOU fail to do so might be partly due to NF, but if some manage, then part also lies with you. Period.
I had problems finding solo visi action in OF, but I understand I am to blame as well, that is why I did not make posts while doing OF blaming that for something that is also my own failure.

I see from your posts that you play mostly, or at least some, stealther. And I can see solo as that not being a problem in OF, but for visi you had chokepoints to camp near, and through those came fg's or stealth groups. And in general, stealthers slow down action due to people not stopping to fight.

Just now I could solo around bled bridge and a hib smallman and alb smallman didn't attack me, and I could get a solo fight vs. a stealther.
And I've also found many fights near ruins, or docks.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 7:37 AM by Gotmagi

I think both maps could work but honestly NF made things fresh 😊 What it all comes down to is learning to play the map in accordance with your playstyle, solo players need to know where other solo players are roaming etc.

I’m fine with either option.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:07 AM by Leandrys

Had more 1vs1 in 6 days than in all of my Phoenix's OF experience.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:25 AM by Saroi

cere2 wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:26 AM
knarfknarf wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:16 AM
It’s quite funny that the handful of NF fan girls that are extremely vocal on the forums, only think that their opinions are the ones that matter. You say oh just quit blah blah blah etc. , yet you can’t understand that if they implement NF a good chunk of people will stop playing. And then all it will take is wow classic for the final nail in the coffin.. no point trying to give our input of things, most of you already “know” NF is the best and the right direction for the server.. all of the hate that has been created from this potential change is coming from the NF’ets side, not the other way around.

Odd that you think it is only a handful that think NF is more enjoyable.
I think on forums its pretty close to like/dislike.
The problem I see if the OF fan girls always threaten that if it's changed they will leave etc.
Most of what you call NF fan girls are saying it would be great if NF is implemented but I will still play for now either way.
So who can we then infer are the doomsdayers of this thread atm?

You say you see a problem about people saying they will leave if NF comes. How is that much different then from you or some other players who left and say they only come back when it changes to NF because you refuse to play OF. You already quit because of OF and try to flame people who threaten to quit because of NF which you like. That is just being a hypocrit.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 10:09 AM by Druth

Saroi wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:25 AM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:26 AM
knarfknarf wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:16 AM
It’s quite funny that the handful of NF fan girls that are extremely vocal on the forums, only think that their opinions are the ones that matter. You say oh just quit blah blah blah etc. , yet you can’t understand that if they implement NF a good chunk of people will stop playing. And then all it will take is wow classic for the final nail in the coffin.. no point trying to give our input of things, most of you already “know” NF is the best and the right direction for the server.. all of the hate that has been created from this potential change is coming from the NF’ets side, not the other way around.

Odd that you think it is only a handful that think NF is more enjoyable.
I think on forums its pretty close to like/dislike.
The problem I see if the OF fan girls always threaten that if it's changed they will leave etc.
Most of what you call NF fan girls are saying it would be great if NF is implemented but I will still play for now either way.
So who can we then infer are the doomsdayers of this thread atm?

You say you see a problem about people saying they will leave if NF comes. How is that much different then from you or some other players who left and say they only come back when it changes to NF because you refuse to play OF. You already quit because of OF and try to flame people who threaten to quit because of NF which you like. That is just being a hypocrit.

Come on! He responded to someone saying those who want NF are a bunch of girls, and you decide to call him out???
Look at the first 20 pages of the thread, it's all about "I hate NF", with no reason as to why. And it's a weeks test!

Sun 16 Jun 2019 10:40 AM by Saroi

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 10:09 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:25 AM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:26 AM
Odd that you think it is only a handful that think NF is more enjoyable.
I think on forums its pretty close to like/dislike.
The problem I see if the OF fan girls always threaten that if it's changed they will leave etc.
Most of what you call NF fan girls are saying it would be great if NF is implemented but I will still play for now either way.
So who can we then infer are the doomsdayers of this thread atm?

You say you see a problem about people saying they will leave if NF comes. How is that much different then from you or some other players who left and say they only come back when it changes to NF because you refuse to play OF. You already quit because of OF and try to flame people who threaten to quit because of NF which you like. That is just being a hypocrit.

Come on! He responded to someone saying those who want NF are a bunch of girls, and you decide to call him out???
Look at the first 20 pages of the thread, it's all about "I hate NF", with no reason as to why. And it's a weeks test!

I read a lot on this thread and what he wrote. This was not just this reply.

He made fun of people saying they are about to quit and their friends too , here is one of his quotes from Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:22 pm:

cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 6:22 PM
LOL.
This is a classic post.

Let me re-phrase OP's post.

"I hate NF, so myself and 50 of my friends all agree NF sucks and we are leaving."

"I myself alone, am threatening to go to Uthgard, but in reality I'm hoping no one calls my bluff."

Fixed.

And I am the one calling him unfair out now? Please. Fact is he wrote he quit and is willing to come back to NF because he does not like OF. There is nothing wrong with that. But if you write stupid stuff to people that do not like NF and are willing to quit because of that, that is not fair.

Also he replies to people who refuses to test NF on this server because they didn't like it on live that they should just test it etc. and how he ended up liking broccoli now which he didn't as a 5 year old and with that mentality not trying it again he would stay like a 5 year old. Yet he wrote he refuses to test the porter system in OF.

This is not about people liking NF or people liking OF. I respect opinions, that is all cool. I respect him in a way that he is active here because he likes NF and he his fighting for it. What I do not find cool are the reasons I just wrote above. I cannot say something bad or make weird "fix quotes" of people when he already left because of basically the same reason. There is no difference in not liking OF and leave or not liking NF and then leave. And he cannot tell people they should test NF now while he refuses to test changes in OF.

You see my point?

Sun 16 Jun 2019 11:41 AM by Druth

Saroi wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 10:40 AM
You see my point?

Yes, and thank you for keeping it polite.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 2:58 PM by cere2

Saroi wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 10:40 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 10:09 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:25 AM
You say you see a problem about people saying they will leave if NF comes. How is that much different then from you or some other players who left and say they only come back when it changes to NF because you refuse to play OF. You already quit because of OF and try to flame people who threaten to quit because of NF which you like. That is just being a hypocrit.

Come on! He responded to someone saying those who want NF are a bunch of girls, and you decide to call him out???
Look at the first 20 pages of the thread, it's all about "I hate NF", with no reason as to why. And it's a weeks test!

I read a lot on this thread and what he wrote. This was not just this reply.

He made fun of people saying they are about to quit and their friends too , here is one of his quotes from Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:22 pm:

cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 6:22 PM
LOL.
This is a classic post.

Let me re-phrase OP's post.

"I hate NF, so myself and 50 of my friends all agree NF sucks and we are leaving."

"I myself alone, am threatening to go to Uthgard, but in reality I'm hoping no one calls my bluff."

Fixed.

And I am the one calling him unfair out now? Please. Fact is he wrote he quit and is willing to come back to NF because he does not like OF. There is nothing wrong with that. But if you write stupid stuff to people that do not like NF and are willing to quit because of that, that is not fair.

Also he replies to people who refuses to test NF on this server because they didn't like it on live that they should just test it etc. and how he ended up liking broccoli now which he didn't as a 5 year old and with that mentality not trying it again he would stay like a 5 year old. Yet he wrote he refuses to test the porter system in OF.

This is not about people liking NF or people liking OF. I respect opinions, that is all cool. I respect him in a way that he is active here because he likes NF and he his fighting for it. What I do not find cool are the reasons I just wrote above. I cannot say something bad or make weird "fix quotes" of people when he already left because of basically the same reason. There is no difference in not liking OF and leave or not liking NF and then leave. And he cannot tell people they should test NF now while he refuses to test changes in OF.

You see my point?

And yet you fail to put the original quote to what I replied in context.
Guy said him and all his friends are leaving. I called BS. It's one thing to say you hate NF and quite another to say that all your friends also agree and will all be leaving if there is NF.
I have stated I quit already, on many occasions and that the NF has brought me back...if nothing else at least for a week. At least I tried OF for a few months. Most here after 1 day of NF are threatening the death of the server, all of us are leaving, devs keep making huge mistakes blah blah blah.
Yes, I called the guy on his bluff...had he just said he himself was leaving I wouldn't have replied. But to infer that a mass exodus will leave if they have NF is just a wild ass guess. And I called him out on it.
Also, when I left I didn't make a post about how I am taking all my friends with me etc. It's like the people that have said there was a mass exodus due to the buff changes. Population drops and raises on the daily. Unless you post specific proof, I will probably call you out on it.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 3:56 PM by Feanira

not really following the thread since its super large.. but since the GMs will look in here looking for feedback to nf - i freaking love it as a solo player.

OF is cool aswell but i would prefer that nf stays

cheers

Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:18 PM by florin

Last night was the most epic three way keep siege at Bolg. Both hibs and mids took turns routing each other while albs defended and kept both back. Finally at 4am - hibs overwhelmed us and took the keep. There were fights up and down stair wells, in nooks and crannies. There was twf and malestroms, shrooms, rams, and death everywhere. The siege culminated with a 15 minute fight in the lords room.

Kudos alb defenders, you sold me on NF!

Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:37 PM by Vindicator

Yeah too much to read to be honest. Only reason I'm posting is because devs said they would keep an eye on thread also.

I don't see a poll up yet but assume that will come from tomorrow morning or else I can't see the thread on open community votes.

So far I enjoy NF but because it's different. A change from the norm is good as it keeps things fresh. It's like the events they run, they are fun to try. Unfortunately I think that is where alot of the NF love is from. It's new but in 2 months time will everyone still feel like that?

Just my two cents but I think they should rotate OF and NF every month. Relics and keeps obviously reset.

I'd love to see something that makes it a competition kind of like seasons in the current meta. Each keep has 3 lives. Once captured the 4th time it becomes permanent until the end of the month. A real realm war. Relic bonuses upped so they are worth while capping but can only be captured when all 7 keeps have been capped 3 times.

No one realm can have an advantage for more than 4 weeks and basically it's a realm goal so you can jump in whenever you want, if you only have 2 session's to log in one week or you are a daily player. Keeping some form of record each month on winning realm and most helpful guild to their realm, Realm Heroes who swung battles or organised their realms BG for example etc.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:39 PM by teiloh

Saroi wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:25 AM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:26 AM
knarfknarf wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:16 AM
It’s quite funny that the handful of NF fan girls that are extremely vocal on the forums, only think that their opinions are the ones that matter. You say oh just quit blah blah blah etc. , yet you can’t understand that if they implement NF a good chunk of people will stop playing. And then all it will take is wow classic for the final nail in the coffin.. no point trying to give our input of things, most of you already “know” NF is the best and the right direction for the server.. all of the hate that has been created from this potential change is coming from the NF’ets side, not the other way around.

Odd that you think it is only a handful that think NF is more enjoyable.
I think on forums its pretty close to like/dislike.
The problem I see if the OF fan girls always threaten that if it's changed they will leave etc.
Most of what you call NF fan girls are saying it would be great if NF is implemented but I will still play for now either way.
So who can we then infer are the doomsdayers of this thread atm?

You say you see a problem about people saying they will leave if NF comes. How is that much different then from you or some other players who left and say they only come back when it changes to NF because you refuse to play OF. You already quit because of OF and try to flame people who threaten to quit because of NF which you like. That is just being a hypocrit.

1600 peak pop.

Still waiting for these people to "come back"

Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:48 PM by cuuchulain79

cere2 wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 2:58 PM
...Population drops and raises on the daily. Unless you post specific proof, I will probably call you out on it.

From day to day yes, there's an ebb and flow of players. But you can see an obvious trend of losing population week to week. It's just the nature of free shards...the best you can ever really hope for is a steady plateau....and very very rarely a slight increase in stable population.

Every major change to Phoenix has basically had zero impact on the steady loss of population....almost identical to what Uth2 saw in the months after its launch.

I don't see why you've got such an axe to grind with players & friends of those players who will leave if NF is permanent. It's a teething stage freeshard with steady loss in population....

Every long standing freeshard has a project goal that can be summarized in one sentence. Phoenix isn't there yet....their project goal feels more like Steve Carrell carrying around a hand-grenade in Anchorman and yelling, "Ahhhhhhh!!!!!" Somebody needs to start driving this ship, and develop a project goal to start building that population core with.

Personally, I'd like to know how they want the server to look by this winter, when the population realistically is peaking at 1k EU, and 300 NA.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 5:00 PM by Saroi

cere2 wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 2:58 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 10:40 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 10:09 AM
Come on! He responded to someone saying those who want NF are a bunch of girls, and you decide to call him out???
Look at the first 20 pages of the thread, it's all about "I hate NF", with no reason as to why. And it's a weeks test!

I read a lot on this thread and what he wrote. This was not just this reply.

He made fun of people saying they are about to quit and their friends too , here is one of his quotes from Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:22 pm:

cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 6:22 PM
LOL.
This is a classic post.

Let me re-phrase OP's post.

"I hate NF, so myself and 50 of my friends all agree NF sucks and we are leaving."

"I myself alone, am threatening to go to Uthgard, but in reality I'm hoping no one calls my bluff."

Fixed.

And I am the one calling him unfair out now? Please. Fact is he wrote he quit and is willing to come back to NF because he does not like OF. There is nothing wrong with that. But if you write stupid stuff to people that do not like NF and are willing to quit because of that, that is not fair.

Also he replies to people who refuses to test NF on this server because they didn't like it on live that they should just test it etc. and how he ended up liking broccoli now which he didn't as a 5 year old and with that mentality not trying it again he would stay like a 5 year old. Yet he wrote he refuses to test the porter system in OF.

This is not about people liking NF or people liking OF. I respect opinions, that is all cool. I respect him in a way that he is active here because he likes NF and he his fighting for it. What I do not find cool are the reasons I just wrote above. I cannot say something bad or make weird "fix quotes" of people when he already left because of basically the same reason. There is no difference in not liking OF and leave or not liking NF and then leave. And he cannot tell people they should test NF now while he refuses to test changes in OF.

You see my point?

And yet you fail to put the original quote to what I replied in context.
Guy said him and all his friends are leaving. I called BS. It's one thing to say you hate NF and quite another to say that all your friends also agree and will all be leaving if there is NF.
I have stated I quit already, on many occasions and that the NF has brought me back...if nothing else at least for a week. At least I tried OF for a few months. Most here after 1 day of NF are threatening the death of the server, all of us are leaving, devs keep making huge mistakes blah blah blah.
Yes, I called the guy on his bluff...had he just said he himself was leaving I wouldn't have replied. But to infer that a mass exodus will leave if they have NF is just a wild ass guess. And I called him out on it.
Also, when I left I didn't make a post about how I am taking all my friends with me etc. It's like the people that have said there was a mass exodus due to the buff changes. Population drops and raises on the daily. Unless you post specific proof, I will probably call you out on it.

Calling his bluff. You don't know if he his bluffing or not. He did not say anything about mass exodus will leave. He was looking for a different server to play with friends. Yes he used the term lot friends which is exaggerated but you do not know if he plays with some friends. Some play together and leave together. Seeing that some people are not happy with NF here makes me not to doubt that they are saying the truth. I have started to twink because I do not enjoy NF and found some people who are doing the same and waiting for OF to come back. Yes others like you are returning and enjoying NF, which is good for you, bad for others. At the end the vote will decide and then everyone has to decide if he wants to play like this.

About the buff changes. Gruenesschaf has written somewhere that there was a population drop, it wasn't as big as the people doomed it but there was one. Don't know if that is specific proof enough for you.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 6:04 PM by cere2

Calling his bluff. You don't know if he his bluffing or not. He did not say anything about mass exodus will leave. He was looking for a different server to play with friends. Yes he used the term lot friends which is exaggerated but you do not know if he plays with some friends. Some play together and leave together. Seeing that some people are not happy with NF here makes me not to doubt that they are saying the truth. I have started to twink because I do not enjoy NF and found some people who are doing the same and waiting for OF to come back. Yes others like you are returning and enjoying NF, which is good for you, bad for others. At the end the vote will decide and then everyone has to decide if he wants to play like this.

About the buff changes. Gruenesschaf has written somewhere that there was a population drop, it wasn't as big as the people doomed it but there was one. Don't know if that is specific proof enough for you.
[/quote]

Fine Cuuch if you actually bought that post as something he was really looking for rather than a BS whine post then ok. For myself I read that as a whine post of if NF stays me and all my friends are out! I believe he may leave but him and all his friends?

I'm calling his bluff about all his "friends" leaving with him.

But perhaps some people buy oceanfront property in Arizona. A simple google search would have saved him all that time, but perhaps he doesn't know google exists either.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 6:08 PM by Turano

If you wanna know what happens if you say "can i have your stuff" too often to people that say they will leave because they are unhappy with how things are just look at uthgard.
Oh how they laughed at people wanting some QoL stuff, I don't think they are still laughing though

Sun 16 Jun 2019 7:29 PM by cuuchulain79

I sincerely hope the staff back up for a second, no matter what the results of the poll, and think...

Is it really worth losing players who have stuck it out this whole time.

In an attempt to regain an unknown amount of players who have already quit?

Sun 16 Jun 2019 7:57 PM by shintacki

People will quit either way. OF comes back permanently and there will be people that quit. NF wins the poll and people will quit. But I agree that an unknown quantity of people that may come back for either OF or NF shouldn’t be considered. Gotta go with concrete numbers you can see and those will come with the poll I think.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 8:11 PM by Zoric

cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 9:51 PM
How can anyone support the old keep system after playing NF is beyond me. OF keeps are just garbage. There is no changing them, no adding this or that, just stuck with what they are. Can implement porting to them yes...but a turd is still a turd

Let be honest, its not the keeps you like about NF. Its the ability for you to add in people's fights easily for RPs or uncover them in front of other hibs. Just because you aren't grouped with people, doesn't make players like you solo. OF > NF for soloers. NF > OF for noob adders trying to get some free RPs. Do not get me wrong, this isn't actually a terrible thing as u can get solo fights in NF its just more rare. This helps low RRs such as yourself climb the RRs so they might actually be able to 1v1 one day. If they make NF a weekly event or maybe only a few days from time to time but keep OF during most of the year, I think that would make everybody happy. The transition seemed to be quite seamless this week.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 8:12 PM by cuuchulain79

I'm not so sure it's that simple. The players who vote NF, have also played the whole time here, and not quit yet.

Players' devotion to the server should be considered. If you weight the poll evenly, and NF comes out on top, you'll be placing the same weight on players who haven't quit, and those that have....

The real question is, at 6 months, is it time to start relying on "players returning" as a strategy to keep the server healthy?

I'd say no. Come up with a Project Goal, work towards it, accept that populations drop & hopefully even out...and stop dropping bombs on your player-base just to "end speculation."

Sun 16 Jun 2019 8:15 PM by cere2

Zoric wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 8:11 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 9:51 PM
How can anyone support the old keep system after playing NF is beyond me. OF keeps are just garbage. There is no changing them, no adding this or that, just stuck with what they are. Can implement porting to them yes...but a turd is still a turd

Let be honest, its not the keeps you like about NF. Its the ability for you to add in people's fights easily for RPs or uncover them in front of other hibs. Just because you aren't grouped with people, doesn't make players like you solo. OF > NF for soloers. NF > OF for noob adders trying to get some free RPs. Do not get me wrong, this isn't actually a terrible thing as u can get solo fights in NF its just more rare. This helps low RRs such as yourself climb the RRs so they might actually be able to 1v1 one day. If they make NF a weekly event or maybe only a few days from time to time but keep OF during most of the year, I think that would make everybody happy. The transition seemed to be quite seamless this week.

LOL, so I popped you with an arrow, you tried to run, I ran after you you turned to fight and a champ added. What did you want me to /sit for you? Like it's your first time dying to an add...jesus. Yep I am low RR atm mostly because I don't care for OF, grats man you did. But quit cryin about being added on like it's any different than OF adds.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 8:19 PM by cuuchulain79

Zoric wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 8:11 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Jun 2019 9:51 PM
How can anyone support the old keep system after playing NF is beyond me. OF keeps are just garbage. There is no changing them, no adding this or that, just stuck with what they are. Can implement porting to them yes...but a turd is still a turd

Let be honest, its not the keeps you like about NF. Its the ability for you to add in people's fights easily for RPs or uncover them in front of other hibs. Just because you aren't grouped with people, doesn't make players like you solo. OF > NF for soloers. NF > OF for noob adders trying to get some free RPs. Do not get me wrong, this isn't actually a terrible thing as u can get solo fights in NF its just more rare. This helps low RRs such as yourself climb the RRs so they might actually be able to 1v1 one day. If they make NF a weekly event or maybe only a few days from time to time but keep OF during most of the year, I think that would make everybody happy. The transition seemed to be quite seamless this week.

IMO, people with signatures like this:
Ceremon - 50 Luri Ranger - Shelved
Cerebeboned - 50 BD Farm
Cereberunnin - Skald - On hold
Cerebeblades - 50 Shar Ranger
Cerebeblind - Scout - made you use purge! HA!

And convince themselves there's something wrong with the game, such as that they can't succeed (I need NF! OF is poo!) just really haven't come to grips with the fact that they're PVE players who just like to make toons...and will always find PvP too frustrating b/c it's harder than killing mobs.

Sry to get punchy =) Cere2 is just a great example of a modern MMO player always wanting to have the world catered to them....players like that come out of the woodwork in the first few months of every freeshard, until their own mediocrity is revealed again...and in the process they usually clog up forums with as much rubbish as possible.

Keep posting buddy! I'm sure you will aspire to making pwny videos someday.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 8:36 PM by cere2

Awesome post man, so not even knowing me you think I must suck as Daoc.
The reason is, my sig.
Obviously you haven't played Live in quite some time or you probably wouldn't have made such a post.

I would have no problem having sucess in OF if I really enjoyed playing there. I just don't. I don't enjoy the maps, I don't enjoy the layout.
Am I biased? No doubt. I have been spoiled with NF for the last 10 years and grew to enjoy its playstyle more than I did with OF.
At least I can say I tried OF again, gave it a couple months and decided just wasn't for me.
With NF as a test I came back and for myself I enjoy the game again. I'm not asking for the world to be catered to me, but I do enjoy NF more than OF and will defend my reasons why.
If that upsets you to the point where you must attack my charecter then good on ya.

Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:09 PM by teiloh

cere2 wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 8:36 PM
Awesome post man, so not even knowing me you think I must suck as Daoc.
The reason is, my sig.
Obviously you haven't played Live in quite some time or you probably wouldn't have made such a post.

Could you explain why NF pop bled to nothing even before BS took over?

Sun 16 Jun 2019 11:08 PM by Turt

PLEASE BRING NF BACK

Sun 16 Jun 2019 11:41 PM by Stoertebecker

knarfknarf wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 1:16 AM
It’s quite funny that the handful of NF fan girls that are extremely vocal on the forums, only think that their opinions are the ones that matter. You say oh just quit blah blah blah etc. , yet you can’t understand that if they implement NF a good chunk of people will stop playing. And then all it will take is wow classic for the final nail in the coffin.. no point trying to give our input of things, most of you already “know” NF is the best and the right direction for the server.. all of the hate that has been created from this potential change is coming from the NF’ets side, not the other way around.

So you say ppl will leave because NF and jump on the hypetrain for wow classic with its *amazing* rvr experience?

DAoC was/is wellknown for its RvR for 19 years now, only 4 years were with OF ( only 3,5 in the EU). Both, OF and NF have their pros and cons.
Never heared in 15 years that the WoW PvP (or whatever they called it) was/is in any form better than in DAoC, not with NF, not with OF.

The ppl saying that they`ll quit playing on phoenix if the staff sticks with NF and play wow instead will quit anyway, even if the staff sticks with OF.

Leaving DAoC for Warcrafts amazing pvp experience....brillant idea if you`re looking for a rvr centered game. /clap

Mon 17 Jun 2019 12:20 AM by Jeninii

I miss NF.. great tower and keep fights

Mon 17 Jun 2019 1:33 AM by Inkwell84

I think at most they should do a 1-2 week roatatuom between OF and NF, there are too many people on either side of the scale. WE cannot afford to lose all the OF diehards. We want this server pop to be as high as possible. Rotation is best solution to please the most people. Everyone on both sides of the debate will be somewhat unhappy, which is the sign of successful mediation.

Me personally, I’ve enjoyed some time in NF and really disliked other time in NF. There are pro’s and cons to each.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:31 AM by ExcretusMaximus

I sUrE aM gLaD wE'Re bAcK tO OF!

BeInG fOrCeD tO fIgHt ZerGs oR nOtHiNg iS AwEsOmE!

Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:49 AM by Tacos

I just logged in pumped to small man in NF and then found out it was back to OF. Sadface =(

Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:01 AM by Myllasia

what a beautiful day ! Thanks my God !

Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:17 AM by Druth

Even spammers can see this thread is childish.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:18 AM by Kampfar

Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:32 AM by Enyore

Simple conclusion - was awesome, thanks for the test

Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:40 AM by Ixnay

NF week was great, had most fun on Phoenix so far during his test week and the most 8v8 fights too. Although the hibs and Pilz generally ruined ports for most realms on a daily basis and forced painful runs from relic gates, would take that any day over the mile gate choke points of OF and getting steam rolled by multiple enemy groups/zergs without much of a chance of getting away.
If people could embrace insta port of NF and as a community kept insta port open to create action, it would work so much better, only think there was a brief period this week all 3 realms could port to a ‘close location’ at anyone point. NF requires some sense and cohesion to create insta action but would be the superior solution.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:53 AM by Quathan

This was the first time I've really played New Frontier. I've played live when classic+SI was there and later on Uth1+Genesis+Uth2 and Ive heard many others has done this as well. And because Uth staff failed their community in many ways they moved here because you gave them a better alternative. "We have used patch 1.65 as the foundation" is what you wrote and I think you should remember some people are here because of that... I can make threats like some has done already saying "MAKE IT OLD FRONTIER OR IM GOING BACK TO UTH" but we all know it won't happen. But I would ask you to remember that this might be the last classic server there is before you make your decision.

NF:
Seems very big and with much unnecessary space as there are travel mechanics bringing you straight to the battlefield.

Boats:
They brought instant action as everyone could take them directly to each other dropoff points. This seemed like it was too easy .. I mean if action is supposed to be that fast I think we should just add Molvik event in a permanent part of the game and let the clusterfuck begin.

Towers:
Too many of them IMO. The towers close to the keeps was fun enough as it made a natural gathering spot/base for invaders. So if NF is going to be a part of the future here on Phoenix I would suggest to cut down on them(if possible) and have 1 tower for each keep.

Keeps:
Too many guards even after the respawn nerf. 2 groups could barely take a keep.

Siege equipment:
Oil was stupid powerful I've managed to make almost 40k RPs within 15min. I know there is much to prevent it etc. but for me, it's a flaw that it's even there.
Siege weapons IMO should take time being build.. people popping that kind of things makes it too easy in some situations without any effort.
Siege ballistics being able to still shoot people in stealth was also a great bug people too much advantage of.
Yeah, I guess I just don't like siege equipment - Keep the rams tho but rest is out!

OF:

With the port you have going right now the actions seem to flow pretty good you have also managed to make people roam around with your great task system with people did much more than with NF system.
If people really liked the instant action with boats etc I think you should move the portal chain even further out so people can port to their final frontier keep(Beno, Bleed, and Crauch) instead.

--
My vote goes for Old Frontier

Mon 17 Jun 2019 8:07 AM by Hife

Great week of rvr, will definitely be voting for NF.

8v8 action was far superior to OF, towers fights are great fun, zergs seemed to be running around with more purpose and siege on keeps was more engaging. Only been on phoenix for a short while but from what I've experienced, a lot of keep fights in OF consist of zergs running around knocking down doors without being challenged by defenders - that didn't seem to be the case this week.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:18 AM by Lev

i don't know. lots of things not to like about NF while somethings are better or at least newer to me.

playing as a mid, I found soloing as a visible even worse, zerg vs. zerg at a keep was better though, although mids were often unorganised even at euro prime time, which was a novelty as well. I liked travel (boats and ports).
if NF was permanent, I would level a stealther or join some 3vs1 gank group.

I still would like it if NF was a regular event (like 1 week every two months). /shrug

Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:31 AM by falcon

Thx to dev for testing, before I would probably choose OF (I like gates <3) then I discover NF in molvik and spent a very good time (if OF win, we absolutely need molvik event every weekend at least !)
Once tested its impossible to go back, walk 10mn to reach beno, cant move from keep to keep need to suicide, a nightmare...
Of course NF is not perfect (solo is almost impossible if your zerg not near ^^) very boring when all action is on another realm and no tower or zerg to participate... but the battle are so fantastic in tower or keep, I can't imagine the game without it anymore ! (to be perfect we need 1 catapult on a keep/tower, 10 = abuse but 0 its sad... and perm event for solo : BG OF for 50 ?)

Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:33 AM by jandersen88

Personally i thought it was fine. I can live with Nf just like i can do OF.. What i however am getting sick of is all the spoiled curling kids in here crying cause 1 !!!! week of NF testing... Also its a test u tools.. Give them time to gather intel and correct stuff before u act out like a baby whos just lost its pacifyer.. Jeeesus guys.. get real! most of u are supposed to be adults xD!

but.. lets get to the feedback.

Pros:
* A lot more interresting to keep/tower siege as it actually takes effort here.. (guess thats why zerging babies are crying cause they dunno wtf to do when they actually have to work for it xD!). (Like we had a guy claiming u need 100+ players to take a keep.. 5mins later albs took crim from us with 37.. A crybaby was exposed!)
* Porting works great! Quick action is amazing! Unfortuanetly we had zergleaders deliberatly trying to cut ports, avoid action and effectively making the runs rather slow sometimes (THIS IS THE ZERG LEADERS FAULT!!!)
* Ships are a nice alternative.. Once they got fixed from being able to be attacked etc they were great! Maybe up speed on them tho...
* You (Phoenix staff) havent even utalized half of the options there is in NF.. EV could be Solo/smallman HEAVEN! Add safeports, add quests/reasons to go there for smaller grps and make it pointless for 8mans or more to go there.. Then u have solo/smallman HEAVEN!!! - If only the OF-loving stealthers would be open to listen to stuff, instead of just qq like kids.. This can be AMAZING!
* (Joke) Maybe if we keep NF we will loose the lemmings who /stick zerg and dont know wtf their class or char is all about :b (my god u crybabies are loud xD!)

Cons:
* Nothing atm that seperates solo/smallmans from 8man/zergs - Give seperate quests for differentsize grps... Again.. EV is made for this!
* Tweaking: By this is mean guards shooting through walls etc.. This is seriously an issue that can cause anger and frustration but this isnt nesecarily a NF issue, but more an AI issue.. can be fixed - needs to be fixed!
* Not being able to use the water is horrible! Only thing people use water for in NF/thid atm is suiciding to avoid giving rps to other factions (what a coward move btw!)

Conclussion:
NF has great potential, but OF zerg-riding lemmings wont realize it yet.. Add some insentive for solo/smallmans to roam EV and give zergaholics a reason to zerg keeps etc...
FIX! the guards.. They shoot through walls which really is an issue when they shoot for 300dmg :b About spawntimer i dont think its an issue but thats just me ^^
Now, keep OF for a month or so then in that meantime u read all this feedback u get.. then when a month has passed, try another week with NF and the added changes... (please give solo/small man some love on EV) and i bet u the whine will be minimal next time u ask

!
*** Finally, Ty for the effort, Pheonix staff! Really appriciate it! ***

Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:20 AM by Turano

Sure have the smallman and solos walk all the way to ev, at least then the speed 6 grps know where to wait for them

Everyone that is not intetested in keep taking is screwed in NF because that is all NF is about.

In OF you know the stealtherzerg will most likely be at the Mike gate, if you avoid these you have no problem. In NF the stealther zerg can be everywhere. On every bridge, at every dock.
And if It's not them then the skald+BD duos will add in every fight you might have.

Yes NF is such big fun for everyone, wonder why there are such stupid kids that start on a server that advertizes with OF and are now upset about the godsent that is NF. Heathens!

Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:33 AM by Stoertebecker

Turano wrote: In OF you know the stealtherzerg will most likely be at the Mike gate, if you avoid these you have no problem.

Thats cool stuff, albs and mids avoid the milegates in emain, and the hibs don`t even bother running their own frontier like the albs do with their frontier. Sounds like lotsa fun

Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:41 AM by Turano

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:33 AM
Turano wrote: In OF you know the stealtherzerg will most likely be at the Mike gate, if you avoid these you have no problem.

Thats cool stuff, albs and mids avoid the milegates in emain, and the hibs don`t even bother running their own frontier like the albs do with their frontier. Sounds like lotsa fun

You can always get though a mile gate when you wait for a group
Have done that for years when i was playing Alb.
But sure, whining is way easier

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:00 AM by Volbeat

If i want NF...why would i leave live servers ? And if you make NF, make sure the guards and timers on em dont suit a ToA bonus group/player/zerg. For me the early hours of gameplay was completely ruined with NF. As a group you cant take a tower/keep. We even got run over by guards with 4 groups in bledmeer…..wtf ?
Besides that, I love the action against other players i had all time of the day on my Ranger. I even saw alb stealthers who figure out how to solo /applaud lol

OF is fun, but i believe the timer after death is a bit high

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:01 AM by Hector

NF realm map with OF RAs would be cool.... you'd strip the zerg of their ability to blow all their toys and give full groups a chance to fight vs large numbers. This is especially interesting because the keep multiplier (and previously the task system) rewarded so many RPs for such superficial involvement in RvR, that you pretty much gave the zerg way too many abilities to use in RvR.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:02 AM by CronU

Turano wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:20 AM
Yes NF is such big fun for everyone, wonder why there are such stupid kids that start on a server that advertizes with OF and are now upset about the godsent that is NF. Heathens!

Sorry mate, but this sentence is complete bs.
There never was the choice of OF or NF before, since Uthgard 1 went back to OF.
There are some small servers that are running NF, but with way more stuff that is influating the game in a way most people dislike.

Phoenix is for almost a decade the first big private server that is trying to ask their community if they prefer OF or NF.
For me OF was never the criteria why i joined this server. The expected high player counts and the patchlevel (that btw has nothing to do with OF or NF, more with the balance of classes) were the big points why i joined here and started playing.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:02 AM by zarawer

Opinions are subjective. No matter what side of the debate you fall on, your reasoning is ancedotal in the end.

I enjoyed both variations, as there still is no other game to give the 3 realm experiance in pvp like DAoC. To hard line, "I quit"; if your vote doesn't make it through is childish and there are other reasons one will quit, and it's mostly burn out.

There is something for everybody in DAoC.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:10 AM by zan

Glad its over.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:13 AM by Turano

CronU wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:02 AM
Sorry mate, but this sentence is complete bs.

It is not complete bs. I started uthgard 1 when they anmounced their switch to OF and I would never have started here if the premisse was NF to begin with.
And I surely am not the only one

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:19 AM by LordK

When I logged in here for the first time I didn't even know if this server had on OF or NF... I simply don't care about. As Iwrote before I prefer NF but I will not make a drama if remains OF.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:46 AM by inoeth

Turano wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:20 AM
Sure have the smallman and solos walk all the way to ev, at least then the speed 6 grps know where to wait for them
Everyone that is not intetested in keep taking is screwed in NF because that is all NF is about.

In OF you know the stealtherzerg will most likely be at the Mike gate, if you avoid these you have no problem. In NF the stealther zerg can be everywhere. On every bridge, at every dock.
And if It's not them then the skald+BD duos will add in every fight you might have.

Yes NF is such big fun for everyone, wonder why there are such stupid kids that start on a server that advertizes with OF and are now upset about the godsent that is NF. Heathens!

how can you avoid stealth zerg when they are at mile gates? yes in NF they can be everywhere but you also can dodge them easily.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:47 AM by Stoertebecker

Turano wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:41 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:33 AM
Turano wrote: In OF you know the stealtherzerg will most likely be at the Mike gate, if you avoid these you have no problem.

Thats cool stuff, albs and mids avoid the milegates in emain, and the hibs don`t even bother running their own frontier like the albs do with their frontier. Sounds like lotsa fun
You can always get though a mile gate when you wait for a group
Have done that for years when i was playing Alb.
But sure, whining is way easier

Yeah sure, since we spend 50% of the time in rvr running around we can spend another 35% with waiting

And that a ALB never leaves his Pk or Milegate before his group of 32 is full isn`t a secret. Any more news?

Dark Age of Waitalot

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:47 AM by inoeth

Turano wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:41 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:33 AM
Turano wrote: In OF you know the stealtherzerg will most likely be at the Mike gate, if you avoid these you have no problem.

Thats cool stuff, albs and mids avoid the milegates in emain, and the hibs don`t even bother running their own frontier like the albs do with their frontier. Sounds like lotsa fun
You can always get though a mile gate when you wait for a group
Have done that for years when i was playing Alb.
But sure, whining is way easier

sounds like lots of fun... stand around waiting ;D

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:54 AM by Stoertebecker

Volbeat wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:00 AM
If i want NF...why would i leave live servers ?

Mhm, did you play on live within the last 4-5 years, or at least the last 2-3y?

I could name you a few things why NF here isn`t NF on live. But the most important point could be ... they have ToA on live. Doh...surprised?
Another point could be.. 15$/month.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 12:09 PM by Turano

I actually liked toa, the artefacts were great, planing SC temps was a challenge and the master abilities gave every char more tools to work with.
What I didn't like was NF and all the addons that followed

PS: darkness rising wasn't too bad

Mon 17 Jun 2019 12:09 PM by kratoxin

OF or peace out boy scout

Mon 17 Jun 2019 1:17 PM by Bumbles

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 12:09 PM
OF or peace out boy scout

don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:53 PM by Krendos

cere2 wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 2:38 AM
History has a way of repeating itself sometimes.
After NF was released, Daoc had its highest recorded population, 5 months later, 3 mmorpg's were released including WoW and there was a massive population dip.
Those are facts. Some say it was because of ToA, some say it was because of NF, but evidence points otherwise.
I wouldn't say they are scared, they just have intuition.

I love this argument. It's just a matter of there was nothing else out at the time really. Would people have stayed if they were happy? Yep. They left cause they were frustrated with the game, (there just weren't many other decent MMO options) when those options landed, mass exodus. Those are actually the facts. Lots of folks were unhappy with ToA and that was more of a factor than WoW landing, but those other MMO's landing just gave folks other outs.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:01 PM by cere2

Was a good week for me, I am glad I still perused the forums or I would not have had any idea they were going to test out NF.
I enjoyed the keep fights, the towers need the doors toned down a bit, and not upgrade so fast. Allows too much time for zerg to show up while 2-3 fg's still waiting on door to go down etc. All in all fun for me like I used to have on Live, thanks dev's for at least one week of good times.
I enjoyed being able to port near to action, and if I got stealth zerged I could be back at it in no time. Then the test ended, and I figured I would try OF again, because they put in porting.....

So first time using ports in hib in OF was last night. I was able to port to Briefine.
But I still did not find the walk/run to Emain very enjoyable. Did see a couple fg's of mids/albs out and about in Brief which was new. I would gather most likely since they made the ability to port there, they were there looking to gank the runners.
Luckily for me I had stealth. Didn't encounter a solo or smallman until passing into Emain near AMG.
Got popped by the tower across from AMG and died to about 8 arrows in 3 seconds.
All in all I spend approx 8 mins getting there and 3 seconds dying to stealth group.
OF, even with port to Brief is still just not my cup o tea. Just takes too long for Hib to get into action.

Also, not having r/w just drives me banana's!

Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:05 PM by inky2019

I think my biggest issue here with the OF/NF thing is that this server was suppose to be the classic style. That is what brought everyone here to it. NF is not that.

It doesn't matter what one wins the vote the developers are going to do what they choose to do based on their decisions not the communities.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:07 PM by cere2

Krendos wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:53 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Jun 2019 2:38 AM
History has a way of repeating itself sometimes.
After NF was released, Daoc had its highest recorded population, 5 months later, 3 mmorpg's were released including WoW and there was a massive population dip.
Those are facts. Some say it was because of ToA, some say it was because of NF, but evidence points otherwise.
I wouldn't say they are scared, they just have intuition.

I love this argument. It's just a matter of there was nothing else out at the time really. Would people have stayed if they were happy? Yep. They left cause they were frustrated with the game, (there just weren't many other decent MMO options) when those options landed, mass exodus. Those are actually the facts. Lots of folks were unhappy with ToA and that was more of a factor than WoW landing, but those other MMO's landing just gave folks other outs.

Evidence points elsewhere. You can check the dates of the realeases and population of servers at those times on google, if you would like the actual stats. If it was TOA then why didn't pop just drop off after that? Population dropped specifically when WoW came out, I won't disagree that some people were not happy the direction they took, but overall population did not decline when ToA came out. It improved...same with NF.
New shiny games back then were all the rave. WoW was new and graphically superior to daoc by far.
People get bored easily. I wouldn't say they were all unhappy, some were no doubt, but I would wager more were just bored or burnt out by then.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:09 PM by Gorgoroth

inky2019 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:05 PM
I think my biggest issue here with the OF/NF thing is that this server was suppose to be the classic style. That is what brought everyone here to it. NF is not that.

It doesn't matter what one wins the vote the developers are going to do what they choose to do based on their decisions not the communities.

This is objectively wrong. The devs could just go ahead and do whatever they please, but they said this is a test weekend and stuck to their word. They will open a vote and make a decision based on that. That is actually amazing I have to say, as they own the server and could decide not to ask the community, which often enough presents itself to be quite toxic and insulting towards the staff.

I assume being a little grateful for this and for their consideration is too much to ask for from you, correct?

Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:13 PM by Ashenspire

People left because one of the biggest IPs in gaming came out with a new MMO that looked and played better than any of the other ones. Simple as that. While you may disagree with that in an individual level, the entire industry disagrees with you.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:18 PM by jackatom74

You can play nf with a live account.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:19 PM by cere2

jackatom74 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:18 PM
You can play nf with a live account.

And you can play OF with Uthgard.
What's you point?

Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:36 PM by thirian24

It's funny, there was action everywhere in NF during that week. Last night OF, 99% spam was coming from emain. That's just miserable if you're not alb/mid.

There was fast and easily accessible action in NF for all realms. OF is not like that at all. I was hesitant about NF because I don't like change and I didn't remember much about NF but after a week playing and seeing how much better the action was for hibs because we didn't have the long run to email where albs/mids stay, I was sold.

I really hope NF comes back and stays.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:28 PM by Nildain

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:36 PM
It's funny, there was action everywhere in NF during that week. Last night OF, 99% spam was coming from emain. That's just miserable if you're not alb/mid.

There was fast and easily accessible action in NF for all realms. OF is not like that at all. I was hesitant about NF because I don't like change and I didn't remember much about NF but after a week playing and seeing how much better the action was for hibs because we didn't have the long run to email where albs/mids stay, I was sold.

I really hope NF comes back and stays.

This sums it up for me. I'm sure there are plenty of hibs who like or even prefer OF even taking this into account, but man it's a night and day difference for me. Call me impatient but the time it takes me to find action correlates heavily with whether or not I'll bother logging in. Especially when you talk about the psychological impact of spending 10 minutes to get to where action might be and getting run over by some overwhelming odds. Who enjoys that?

I played both OF and NF back in the day, so nostalgia doesn't really swing either way for me, I just want what feels best in practice and that's NF for me.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:21 PM by Rhox

The bottom line is everyone play style dictates which they enjoy more. I don't think anyone can make a winning argument for one or the other. I can see people loving the movement of action, the keep takes / keep defense and other things. I can also see people enjoying hanging out at bridges and assjaming 1v1. I can also see groups enjoying running over soloers heading toward the docks. I see the argument for NF if that's your play style. Im not going to say your wrong.

What I can tell you is I got a lot more good 1vs1 1vs2 fights in my 2 hours last night then I did in 20 hours of NF.

It is easier to find action in NF then OF but its not the action your always looking for.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:25 PM by cere2

I would counter that I found much more 1 v 1 in NF than last night in OF, because I found none. Though I will say I did only make 3 runs so there is that.
Even after my 8 minute walk from the closest port...

Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:30 PM by Rhox

cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:25 PM
I would counter that I found much more 1 v 1 in NF than last night in OF, because I found none. Though I will say I did only make 3 runs so there is that.
Even after my 8 minute walk from the closest port...

If you play late night EST time port alb and run to Mid MG you should always find action.

Be mindful it might be me ;-)

Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:43 PM by cere2

Rhox wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:30 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:25 PM
I would counter that I found much more 1 v 1 in NF than last night in OF, because I found none. Though I will say I did only make 3 runs so there is that.
Even after my 8 minute walk from the closest port...

If you play late night EST time port alb and run to Mid MG you should always find action.

Be mindful it might be me ;-)

So don't take too much offense to this but even doing that, would drive me bonkers. You know how long it takes to get there in stealth?
Perhaps if I played a speed visi toon this wouldn't seem bad...but for me it's just not worth the time. Especially after doing such, trying to walk through MG and getting ganked by a duo or trio or...you get my drift.

It would be different if I played something that had SoS or something to get away etc.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:48 PM by Rhox

cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:43 PM
Rhox wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:30 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:25 PM
I would counter that I found much more 1 v 1 in NF than last night in OF, because I found none. Though I will say I did only make 3 runs so there is that.
Even after my 8 minute walk from the closest port...

If you play late night EST time port alb and run to Mid MG you should always find action.

Be mindful it might be me ;-)

So don't take too much offense to this but even doing that, would drive me bonkers. You know how long it takes to get there in stealth?
Perhaps if I played a speed visi toon this wouldn't seem bad...but for me it's just not worth the time. Especially after doing such, trying to walk through MG and getting ganked by a duo or trio or...you get my drift.

It would be different if I played something that had SoS or something to get away etc.

No I get it. I currently playing a no speed no SOS class. I see a lot of stealthers that run visible and stealth when they get in clip range before I attack them. It would be a rough trip full stealth.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:01 PM by Lugt

Hi,

My vote is for Old frontiers.

With the changes of old frontiers so we can port a bit around make it so much more fun

I play this game stille because it reminds me of something back in the days.

If NF gets here the game wont be the same for me. There is way to many towers, boats and so on.. Its a new game for me. By that i mean if i want something new i would pick another game

Happy killing ingame

Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:04 PM by thirian24

The last night of NF I was on roughly an hour before I lost power due to a storm. I was sitting at 11k rps solo stealther.

Last night the in OF I made 3k Rps I think? I had 1 solo fight against Zoric. So me and a buddy decided to run around in Alb and hang at the MMG. Zero people through there. Ran towards Pennine and had a 2v2. I played for 2 hours last night.

I see both sides, but mainly it's albs/mids that would like to keep OF because they can just stay in emain 24/7 with tons of action. No issues for them.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:11 PM by Rhox

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:04 PM
The last night of NF I was on roughly an hour before I lost power due to a storm. I was sitting at 11k rps solo stealther.

Last night the in OF I made 3k Rps I think? I had 1 solo fight against Zoric. So me and a buddy decided to run around in Alb and hang at the MMG. Zero people through there. Ran towards Pennine and had a 2v2. I played for 2 hours last night.

I see both sides, but mainly it's albs/mids that would like to keep OF because they can just stay in emain 24/7 with tons of action. No issues for them.

I see your side of things because for you game style you could include the word magic word stealther. That means you can pick and choose your battles in NF. As a solo visible I get what I run into. That full group you has to make sure doesn't run directly over you mows me down.

I also realize this game is not based around solo play so that's why I say I see other peoples point of view.

My go to is always Alb because you can always find action all though sometimes I have to camp between HPK and HMG. Its very rarely I go 5 minutes without some for of action unless a mid or alb is camping PK.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:12 PM by lurker

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:04 PM
The last night of NF I was on roughly an hour before I lost power due to a storm. I was sitting at 11k rps solo stealther.

Last night the in OF I made 3k Rps I think? I had 1 solo fight against Zoric. So me and a buddy decided to run around in Alb and hang at the MMG. Zero people through there. Ran towards Pennine and had a 2v2. I played for 2 hours last night.

I see both sides, but mainly it's albs/mids that would like to keep OF because they can just stay in emain 24/7 with tons of action. No issues for them.

A lot of albs mids avoid emain because they are not interested in zerg v zerg mayhem.
(me included)

Whats positive about OF is that the zerg tends to focus there rather than just splurge everywhere. I think i only had one small man fight in NF that wasnt added on/rolled over by a fg+ no matter which primary zone i was in (og,hz,emain). The other zones were pretty dead (including ev) and just a lot of running around to not find much action.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:19 PM by teiloh

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:36 PM
It's funny, there was action everywhere in NF during that week. Last night OF, 99% spam was coming from emain. That's just miserable if you're not alb/mid.

I was in the top rps earned/hr during those times and there definitely was not action everywhere. We spent 20-30 minutes looking for a decent fight every time. Keep ticks made the difference though.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:25 PM by Ceen

teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:19 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:36 PM
It's funny, there was action everywhere in NF during that week. Last night OF, 99% spam was coming from emain. That's just miserable if you're not alb/mid.

I was in the top rps earned/hr during those times and there definitely was not action everywhere. We spent 20-30 minutes looking for a decent fight every time. Keep ticks made the difference though.

Yeah NF with keep multiplier cap will result in Uthgard like RP/h rates, glad I made it to the top during OF so I can just have nice fights every now and thenwithout bothering too much about RR gain if the tide turns to NF

Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:40 PM by Mavella

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:04 PM
The last night of NF I was on roughly an hour before I lost power due to a storm. I was sitting at 11k rps solo stealther.

Last night the in OF I made 3k Rps I think? I had 1 solo fight against Zoric. So me and a buddy decided to run around in Alb and hang at the MMG. Zero people through there. Ran towards Pennine and had a 2v2. I played for 2 hours last night.

I see both sides, but mainly it's albs/mids that would like to keep OF because they can just stay in emain 24/7 with tons of action. No issues for them.

Interesting, on my SB I can easily pull 10-12k(more with underpop and some luck) an hour entirely solo in emain in OF.

I struggled to break 10k pretty much every time I attempted to play NF and it was filled with excruciatingly boring periods of either no enemies or boat rides after getting zerged down because the only place I can reliably find people to jump is near a dock or bridge.

I did have some luck camping da behn dock Saturday night but of course once you lose hastener it's unfeasible to try and walk anywhere to reposition so you may as well sacrifice yourself to the guards or the river and port/boat back because for some reason that's the better alternative. Generally you'll just die to the 2-3 you killed because they just port back immediately wait for you to unstealth and zerg you down.

NF literally feels like camping boat drops/docks/bridges. With water being totally inconsequential people don't even bother with the bridges most of the time. The terrain has zero natural choke points and no obvious roads/travel paths besides bee lining for a dock and then /disembarking along either very very long coast line to get to whatever tower or keep is being pvdoored at the time.

I also tried to get involved in a keep siege but of course multiple red guards with no heals is just a recipie for a quick /rel.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:51 PM by Breathaan

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:13 PM
People left because one of the biggest IPs in gaming came out with a new MMO that looked and played better than any of the other ones. Simple as that. While you may disagree with that in an individual level, the entire industry disagrees with you.

I don't disagree, but for me, it was Warhammer Online that pulled most of my guild/friends, not WoW. That and the whole RL timing of 5 years turning a bunch of college and mid-twentysomethings becoming late twentysomethings and early thirtysomethings with careers and spouses/kids and mortgages, not jobs and exams and roommates.

The really special part of Dark Age for me was the people that I played with daily, chatted with on Ventrilo (later TeamSpeak), and actually considered friends.
When my friends weren't playing anymore, playing wasn't fun anymore. I don't blame TOA or NF or Champ levels, or Laby, or w/e....life goes on.
We are lucky enough to get a chance to recapture some of that wonderful part of our youth and reconnect with old friends, which is FAR more important than which map we pretend to be wizards and kobolds and assassins to pretend to kill pretend monsters and other people pretending to be druids and iconnu and mushroomer makers with pretend swords and spells for pretend realm ranks and pretend gold.

That being said, NF is superior. TOA was a massive timesink and powercreep. The minor issues with NF being setup for a slightly higher power level can easily be tweaked by guard lvl/respawns/etc. The end of the week was much better than day one for small man tower action, that could be further refined. But quitting over OF/NF seems rather petty and petulant from my perspective.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:02 PM by Nildain

Mavella wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:40 PM
Interesting, on my SB I can easily pull 10-12k(more with underpop and some luck) an hour entirely solo in emain in OF.

Yeah, but you can port into emain. If you were a hib you'd have a completely different experience. That's what people don't seem to be taking into account, or they just don't care because it doesn't affect them.

I'd be fine with OF if they made the access to action balanced for the realms. Ultimately I don't care whether it's OF or NF but currently at least one third of the population is disadvantaged and that's not great for the server in the long run.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:24 PM by gotwqqd

What if Hibs(or anyone from other realm) was allowed to port into any of their controlled forts in their own realm once per hour(or whatever seems to work)?

Instead of feeding the other realms at the mile gates or pk’s Let some of the conflict move to the keeps.

Also what if the milegates had doors only the realm who’s pk separates can use. And no climbing walls of milegate

Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:35 PM by Mavella

Nildain wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:02 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:40 PM
Interesting, on my SB I can easily pull 10-12k(more with underpop and some luck) an hour entirely solo in emain in OF.

Yeah, but you can port into emain. If you were a hib you'd have a completely different experience. That's what people don't seem to be taking into account, or they just don't care because it doesn't affect them.

I'd be fine with OF if they made the access to action balanced for the realms. Ultimately I don't care whether it's OF or NF but currently at least one third of the population is disadvantaged and that's not great for the server in the long run.

It WAS a disadvantage but you can port in OF now and I'm seeing consideraly more hib stealth crews in emain which isn't a bad thing(until I get 5v1ed then it sucks :lol

. I think it was unfortunately rolled out without much fanfare and a large portion of the player population isn't even aware of it. Having to use the RW map is a bit confusing at first but I don't think the learning curve is that bad.

I honestly think if OF wins the vote they need to revert to the older task system that rotates the task zone and add smaller objectives to the interior zones to spread the action again. I also feel they should go so far as to disable/severely reduce rps in non task zones and only make them earnable in task realm/DF/PoC.

I have no qualms about forcing the action out of emain and it gives the home team a reprieve from having to get through a mile gate for the duration of their task.

I think they could add a points system to keep holding/open field objective holding/kills for task victory condition. If they keep relics worthless it might be worth turning the task system into something far greater than it is now to promote variety.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:50 PM by eclipse2k

In NF I can escape the zerg, if I want. In OF, the zerg can camp the mile gates, forcing me to zerg fight. Yes, I can port to other zones, but often, 90% of the action is in emain, forcing all of us into a all-or-nothing scenario.
NF evens all of this out.

Go with NF, people who complain over lack of action there mostly just need to adjust to other routes, and other places of where to find action. The only people really hurt by NF are those who gank solos with their group, because OF makes them easy to find. For approaching-fair fights, NF is superior.

I won't quit the server anyway, I'm not a drama queen. I just feel like NF gives players more choices, more than OF anyway. You can find whatever you want in NF. In OF, people can force you to play a certain way, and they'll be annoyed if that changes, but they really shouldn't be considered the voice of reason, because they're not.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:25 PM by Cruz

New is always better

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:41 PM by Nildain

Mavella wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:35 PM
It WAS a disadvantage but you can port in OF now and I'm seeing consideraly more hib stealth crews in emain which isn't a bad thing(until I get 5v1ed then it sucks :lol . I think it was unfortunately rolled out without much fanfare and a large portion of the player population isn't even aware of it. Having to use the RW map is a bit confusing at first but I don't think the learning curve is that bad.

Being able to port to breifine (If we have the keeps mind you) is an improvement, but OF is still very limiting in playstyle. It's basically stealth or zerg. NF is nice because all levels of the food chain were running around, and I think that's actually what most people like whether they realize it or not.

When you make it impossible for solo/smallman you actually kill the action for everyone sooner or later. The smallmans wanna gank solos, the fgs wanna gank the smallmans/solos, the good 8 mans wanna gank the shitty 8 mans who just want to gank the smallmans.

Because of the way the OFs are built they just don't facilitate varied RVR. I'm not talking about my opinion here. It's obvious why Emain is where everyone goes and it's obvious why RVR turns into what it turns into in Emain. They could try to get people to go places that aren't Emain but it's all pretty contrived.

Camping a milegate or a pk as a stealther isn't really different than camping a bridge. I dunno what's cool about OF other than you can insta port emain (as a non hib) instead of riding a boat. Seems arbitrary and a little biased.

But in all honesty I think the server will continue to drain population no matter what. That seems to just be how things go on private servers.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:56 PM by Isavyr

lurker wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:12 PM
Whats positive about OF is that the zerg tends to focus there rather than just splurge everywhere. I think i only had one small man fight in NF that wasnt added on/rolled over by a fg+ no matter which primary zone i was in (og,hz,emain). The other zones were pretty dead (including ev) and just a lot of running around to not find much action.

NF is designed to diffuse action, but it doesn't have to be that way. OF Emain is on one extreme of the spectrum where its only choke-points, and NF zones are on the other where there are almost no choke-points. I imagine somewhere in the middle would be best, and perhaps removing boats would accomplish this easiest. In addition, perhaps add and subtract mobs to create/remove corridors as necessary.

Basically my feeling is that NF has a lot of potential more potential than OF, but they're both bad in their current state.

Nildain wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:41 PM
..I wrote many things above Isavyr..

I agree with your post, very well thought out, and a nice break from the first 30 pages of the thread.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:28 AM by Sepplord

Nildain wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:02 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:40 PM
Interesting, on my SB I can easily pull 10-12k(more with underpop and some luck) an hour entirely solo in emain in OF.

Yeah, but you can port into emain. If you were a hib you'd have a completely different experience. That's what people don't seem to be taking into account, or they just don't care because it doesn't affect them.

I'd be fine with OF if they made the access to action balanced for the realms. Ultimately I don't care whether it's OF or NF but currently at least one third of the population is disadvantaged and that's not great for the server in the long run.

plenty of soloers / smallmen don't go to emain, there are quite a few people preferring NF because it is NOT the meatgrinder that emain is

those playstyle players have an advantage if they are hibs

Tue 18 Jun 2019 11:14 AM by Nildain

plenty of soloers / smallmen don't go to emain, there are quite a few people preferring NF because it is NOT the meatgrinder that emain is

those playstyle players have an advantage if they are hibs

I wish this were more true. I am one of those players and I can't tell you the number of times I've run through Hadrian's or Odin's and seen exactly 0 people. EST american time there end up being no one anywhere but Emain. This happened just last night. There were basically 3fgs of mids running around ganking solos and nobody else.

Honestly, the realm timer needs adjusting, especially for times when the population is low due to what time it is and everyone is stuck on one realm that. Hib had under 40 people last night while mids had over 80. It's kind of ridiculous.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 11:30 AM by Sepplord

Nildain wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 11:14 AM
plenty of soloers / smallmen don't go to emain, there are quite a few people preferring NF because it is NOT the meatgrinder that emain is

those playstyle players have an advantage if they are hibs

I wish this were more true. I am one of those players and I can't tell you the number of times I've run through Hadrian's or Odin's and seen exactly 0 people. EST american time there end up being no one anywhere but Emain. This happened just last night. There were basically 3fgs of mids running around ganking solos and nobody else.

Honestly, the realm timer needs adjusting, especially for times when the population is low due to what time it is and everyone is stuck on one realm that. Hib had under 40 people last night while mids had over 80. It's kind of ridiculous.

Yes, i have heard bad things about US prime too....but in the case you described, what would better access to Emain bring, if there are only 3FG zerging around anyways? Realmswitchtimer is a different topic and not relevant to NF/OF discussion imo

Tue 18 Jun 2019 11:41 AM by tena6ous

Nildain wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:41 PM
[...] but OF is still very limiting in playstyle. It's basically stealth or zerg. NF is nice because all levels of the food chain were running around, and I think that's actually what most people like whether they realize it or not.

You could entirely conclude the thread with this.
The variety of scenarios possible on NF is large, and actually grants everyone the possibility to enjoy its own playstyle. In contrary to OF, you actually will never be stuck on NF as you can adapt the locations of your roams depending on how many people are playing at a moment and what actually happen on the maps.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 7:43 PM by Rhox

tena6ous wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 11:41 AM
Nildain wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:41 PM
[...] but OF is still very limiting in playstyle. It's basically stealth or zerg. NF is nice because all levels of the food chain were running around, and I think that's actually what most people like whether they realize it or not.

You could entirely conclude the thread with this.
The variety of scenarios possible on NF is large, and actually grants MOSTLY everyone the possibility to enjoy its own playstyle. In contrary to OF, you actually will never be stuck on NF as you can adapt the locations of your roams depending on how many people are playing at a moment and what actually happen on the maps.

This is incorrect solo visible cannot enjoy there play style remotely the same as OF.

Also please not I am no longer trying to agrue my side of this as I know I am the 5% and ill play whatever they force down my throat. However, just want to provide guidance to your post.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 8:41 PM by Nildain

This is incorrect solo visible cannot enjoy there play style remotely the same as OF.

Also please not I am no longer trying to agrue my side of this as I know I am the 5% and ill play whatever they force down my throat. However, just want to provide guidance to your post.

I'm not saying our experiences didn't differ, but my experience as a solo visible in NF was way better than OF, and I have a lot of experience soloing in OF on this server.

I'd believe OF might be better for non-hibs, but that's not helping me any. I also wonder if people who had trouble soloing in NF might just not be great at going to the right places, but that's just speculation.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:33 PM by Siouxsie

Nildain wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 11:14 AM
plenty of soloers / smallmen don't go to emain, there are quite a few people preferring NF because it is NOT the meatgrinder that emain is

those playstyle players have an advantage if they are hibs

I wish this were more true. I am one of those players and I can't tell you the number of times I've run through Hadrian's or Odin's and seen exactly 0 people. EST american time there end up being no one anywhere but Emain. This happened just last night. There were basically 3fgs of mids running around ganking solos and nobody else.

Honestly, the realm timer needs adjusting, especially for times when the population is low due to what time it is and everyone is stuck on one realm that. Hib had under 40 people last night while mids had over 80. It's kind of ridiculous.

Nildain - Move to Europe and you too can be part of the mindless PilzVsDoor zerg that spends all day every day taking keeps and running away from fights.