Hib is way too overpowered in the current setting (grp rvr)

Various custom changes and the mix of new(est) ra's with no rr5 ra's and classic stats make hib stronger than it has ever been on any server before (uthgard1,2,genesis,live)
The Main reason is that active Ra's and nearsight cure play a much higher role than they do or did on the live server version that had them, because there were/are alot more tools available for that ra setting on live (rr5 ra's, mls, cls)

#1 Valewalker in Tank grps
Has a disease proc,ranged snare, ranged rupt. That already makes a good char for tank grps, but what makes it extremely strong is that it has [custom det], ichor, and bedazzling aura on one character.

#2 Cure Nearsight is a major buff for Warden, why?
I know, wardens don't have cure nearsight, but nearsight was a very good tool to disable wardens on classic freeshards. It basically forced them to purge as they have no range independent spread heal like the main healers do, it reduced their healing capability by alot. Them having the new Major heal just makes this an even bigger thing. Warden is already a strong character with resists and pbt.

#3 The recent buff changes were a huge buff to hib, why?
Hib is fine with just one buff druid now, before that they needed some specs from a second druid, now they don't. That means every hib grp can now run a nature druid without compromising anything.

#4 Not having Buff shears on this server hurts albs/mids alot more than hibs, why?
Shaman/Cleric have a lot less utility than druid does, smiting as a cleric is useless, stun very situational. that's it, clerics can basically run around and wait for dmg. Every mid grp that has a caster has more than one char that can root, so shaman roots are not essential. The shaman can now run around and spam disease on everyone which is alot weaker here because disease cure has a higher range and Wardens also get it (which they didn't have in proper classic)

#5 Permanent free Endu is a huge buff for Hib,why?
First of all, it frees the bard from always playing the drum, endureg pot + lw1/tireless1 enables everyone to sprint. If tanks have good endu management(don't sprint when their target is snared etc.) and use instant endu now and then, they do not rely on bard endu at all.
So this allows the bard to just draw their weapon and freely sidesnare people.

This also means that it is not punishing for the grp at all when the bard doesn't have endu up on inc. Classic forced bard to twist songs, because the grp wants to run speed6, if there was an enemy grp inc it forced bards to be alot more defensive because they had to get endu up first before engaging. If they engaged too agressively they might have caught rupt on inc and thus not be able to get endu running which tremendously hurt the grp. Without that, bards can play alot more offensive as they do not need to worry about getting endu up on inc

#6 Animist Tanglers - completely broken, do not need to be explained further (no second range check, way too fast casting speed)

ANNOTATION ;
This elaboration stems from someone who has extensively played competitive daoc grp rvr for many years, playing on all classic freeshards and live server during classic times aswell as during New Frontiers, so please only comment/discuss if you know what you are talking about

Tue 28 May 2019 11:15 PM by t4coops

get a sorc and a thurg and a minstrel in your grp and kite alb isn't difficult

Tue 28 May 2019 11:24 PM by Symond

Also hib gets 4 caster classes that have heat damage for the debuff train.

Wed 29 May 2019 12:17 AM by dbeattie71

Yay, nerf the 4 VW’s and 6 Wardens I say!!!

Wed 29 May 2019 1:40 AM by Freedomcall

So what is it you want to change?
All the complaints and no suggestions?
That is not the thing a scholar who has doctor's degree on "How Hibs Got OP on Phoenix" should do!
Everyone can say what they think is OP and make excuses why they couldnt but lose to a hib grp, but pro DAoC gamer like you should suggest how to fix it.

And that is when this post starts to become meaningful.

Wed 29 May 2019 3:09 AM by vbt

Do you even rvr bro

Wed 29 May 2019 3:25 AM by Gweinyth

I have no solutions to the "overpowered" hibs that were suggested other than to laugh. I just need to say that I don't believe that you have ever played a bard. I played a bard on live and now on Phoenix and I have never had the chance to offensively pull out my weapon because of end pots. Bards are not a melee class. If I am not playing end, I am playing mana. If the group has a ment with pom then I keep speed up. I do not equip my weapon. Bards are also busy with cc and back up healing. There is no time to melee even if they could actually hit someone for any amount of damage.

I also have a 50 animist and there is no way I can cast a tangler before I am dead. Quick cast will let me get one tangler set but I am still dead.

Lastly, only druids can cure nearsight and it takes 6 seconds to cast. Six seconds in rvr is an eternity.

Wed 29 May 2019 3:28 AM by Gorgoroth

The OP has made some good points and so far nobody has refuted any of them. I however doubt action on the side of the devs at this point, as the Hib population is sometimes noticeably lower than on alb or mid, and nerfs, even if completely justified, may reduce the hibernian population further.

Wed 29 May 2019 3:46 AM by Gweinyth

I refuted at least two of the OP points. Are these points from experience playing hib or just because someone found they couldn't one button kill a whole group?

Wed 29 May 2019 3:54 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 3:25 AM
Lastly, only druids can cure nearsight and it takes 6 seconds to cast. Six seconds in rvr is an eternity.

40 Regrowth gets you a 3.5 second cast version.

That said, I don't agree with the OP at all. Albs have the best group set-up by far, the problem is it's very strict and difficult to pull off. Mids have the easiest compositions, but their "tank-only" mindset really hurts them in a lot of cases.

Wed 29 May 2019 4:18 AM by Luluko

3 and 4 are certainly valid points and shaman is really quite useless with that castspeed here and if you enemies spread enough its quite hard to perma rupt decent grps and cleric smite is completly useless

5 and the invi pots also favors mid a lot

and high rr vws are certainly a problem with the ra's they have but since hibs dont run them that often it should be ok

Wed 29 May 2019 8:33 AM by chewchew

Caitsenpai dropping some valid points here!
I would like to add to #6 that ichor on eld is also a problem with the tanglers.

Wed 29 May 2019 9:07 AM by Sepplord

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 3:46 AM
I refuted at least two of the OP points. Are these points from experience playing hib or just because someone found they couldn't one button kill a whole group?

You didn't refute anything. Posting wrong informations doesn't refute anything.

REgarding bards melee, your comment shows lack of understanding OPs point. Bards don't melee for damage, they melee for utility. Playing a bard doesn't give you experience with that if you never use it. Playing on the opponent side against other (some might even claim better since they use all their tools) bards gives quite a bit more experience as they face different bards...while you as a bardplayer only experience your own plays. Your claim is that bards never snare, doesn't refute anything.

Your second claim is, that animist always die on inc. Sometimes they can place one tangler. I am unaware of any function auto-killing animist on inc. There are hibgroups out there that protect their animist, or have it survive through other means. I doubt that every shroom in RvR has a dead animist behind them, and i probably gave too much attention to explaining why that claim refutes nothing.

Last but not least Druids get a 3.5second NS heal at Regrowth 40. Easy factcheck, i even did it again despite being 99% sure. So you are working with wrong information about a really basic thing. The only thing that refutes is that you had any credibility to begin with

Wed 29 May 2019 9:49 AM by Pbuck

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 3:25 AM
I have no solutions to the "overpowered" hibs that were suggested other than to laugh. I just need to say that I don't believe that you have ever played a bard. I played a bard on live and now on Phoenix and I have never had the chance to offensively pull out my weapon because of end pots. Bards are not a melee class. If I am not playing end, I am playing mana. If the group has a ment with pom then I keep speed up. I do not equip my weapon. Bards are also busy with cc and back up healing. There is no time to melee even if they could actually hit someone for any amount of damage.

I also have a 50 animist and there is no way I can cast a tangler before I am dead. Quick cast will let me get one tangler set but I am still dead.

Lastly, only druids can cure nearsight and it takes 6 seconds to cast. Six seconds in rvr is an eternity.

Cait is one of the best bards out there, although that was on previous freeshards. What he is saying makes sense, and snaring people can be an effective strategy to mix with ranged rupts/cc/heals.The last two paragraphs of your "counter argument" make little sense. For example I could say " I also have a 50 theurgist and there is no way I can cast an earth pet before I am dead. Quick cast will let me get one earth pet but I am still dead. ".Then you would tell me that my statement is completely ridiculous and you would be right to do so. And why wouldn't druids spec for 3.5 sec cure NS ?.

Wed 29 May 2019 10:25 AM by Bradekes

So let me get this straight... Hib is OP because they are pidgeon holed to having one main rooting class?? And also because one of their classes is supposed to be useless but isn't because every realm has access to nearsight cure?

Also endo pots are a boost to hib??? How so when that frees up conc for mid(also mid range on Endu is so short) and allows alb to never need to gimp their group with a paladin?? (Even though paladin is a great class)

WTF lol

Also they have no custom changes to their classes that specifically boost their effectiveness beyond general buffs that every similar class got on all realms?? But yet we have custom changes for thanes-hunters-friar-paladin-wizards...

Wed 29 May 2019 10:36 AM by Krakkon

Pbuck wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 9:49 AM
Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 3:25 AM
And why wouldn't druids spec for 3.5 sec cure NS ?.

Because a 40 reg druid has blu d/q buff that is quite ridicoulus and blu resist and now charges are weaker than before. You can go 40 reg only if you play Always togheter with a nurture druid. The 40 o 39 nurt spec is more flexible.

Wed 29 May 2019 11:27 AM by Gambler

The range of shrooms are way too far AND the worst thing is the range of 2300 !!! For inst aoe amnesia , seriously 2300 ???

Wed 29 May 2019 12:18 PM by bigne88

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 11:08 PM
Various custom changes and the mix of new(est) ra's with no rr5 ra's and classic stats make hib stronger than it has ever been on any server before (uthgard1,2,genesis,live)
The Main reason is that active Ra's and nearsight cure play a much higher role than they do or did on the live server version that had them, because there were/are alot more tools available for that ra setting on live (rr5 ra's, mls, cls)

#1 Valewalker in Tank grps
Has a disease proc,ranged snare, ranged rupt. That already makes a good char for tank grps, but what makes it extremely strong is that it has [custom det], ichor, and bedazzling aura on one character.

#2 Cure Nearsight is a major buff for Warden, why?
I know, wardens don't have cure nearsight, but nearsight was a very good tool to disable wardens on classic freeshards. It basically forced them to purge as they have no range independent spread heal like the main healers do, it reduced their healing capability by alot. Them having the new Major heal just makes this an even bigger thing. Warden is already a strong character with resists and pbt.

#3 The recent buff changes were a huge buff to hib, why?
Hib is fine with just one buff druid now, before that they needed some specs from a second druid, now they don't. That means every hib grp can now run a nature druid without compromising anything.

#4 Not having Buff shears on this server hurts albs/mids alot more than hibs, why?
Shaman/Cleric have a lot less utility than druid does, smiting as a cleric is useless, stun very situational. that's it, clerics can basically run around and wait for dmg. Every mid grp that has a caster has more than one char that can root, so shaman roots are not essential. The shaman can now run around and spam disease on everyone which is alot weaker here because disease cure has a higher range and Wardens also get it (which they didn't have in proper classic)

#5 Permanent free Endu is a huge buff for Hib,why?
First of all, it frees the bard from always playing the drum, endureg pot + lw1/tireless1 enables everyone to sprint. If tanks have good endu management(don't sprint when their target is snared etc.) and use instant endu now and then, they do not rely on bard endu at all.
So this allows the bard to just draw their weapon and freely sidesnare people.

This also means that it is not punishing for the grp at all when the bard doesn't have endu up on inc. Classic forced bard to twist songs, because the grp wants to run speed6, if there was an enemy grp inc it forced bards to be alot more defensive because they had to get endu up first before engaging. If they engaged too agressively they might have caught rupt on inc and thus not be able to get endu running which tremendously hurt the grp. Without that, bards can play alot more offensive as they do not need to worry about getting endu up on inc

#6 Animist Tanglers - completely broken, do not need to be explained further (no second range check, way too fast casting speed)

ANNOTATION ;
This elaboration stems from someone who has extensively played competitive daoc grp rvr for many years, playing on all classic freeshards and live server during classic times aswell as during New Frontiers, so please only comment/discuss if you know what you are talking about

You claim that you are a "pro" player. Witch are your toons on phoenix? because, to me, you sound like a mad 'cuz bad random player or a troll.

Hib is so OP that everyone loves to play it! Oh wait ...

Listen to me: bad players joins the mid and alb zerg, good/average one rolls on hib to facemelt the zergs and fight against the odds, thats why hib looks op...just because their enemies are mutch worst of course there are few exceptions, cause both mid and alb has their really strong 8v8 groups.

1. Valewalker is strong? Of course it is! But is the hardesta class of the game to be played correctly and you need a great 8 men tank setup to make it shine. Hibs has only one group running it

2. Warden is viable i deed, as are all the other hibrids. All realms has acces to cure nearsight

3. Mids has paci, amirite? Cleric is the best supp class in game

4. Disease is useless because of improved range on cure??? I dont even know if its necessery to reply here.

5. If you would know some game mechanics, as you claim, you would know that a bard can swap to sword and deal a side snare and than swap back to instrument without loosing the song. And trust me, if a bard is indulging in a melee fight it means he is helping the enemies cuz is not doing his job.

6. Animist op eh? If you cant deal with tanglers means you are missing some basic mechanics.
Ever heard of SoS, to name one? Do you know they can be mezzed, amnesia, confuse wathever? Do you actually know how long it takes to an animist to drop a shroom?

Thanks a lot for your post OP, cause if you are a pro player it means I'm top level one.

Edit. Seems you sound as an Alb player, ill toss a free tip here, to steamroll the hib casters: include a friar and a paladin in your 1337 setup and you will be gucci and since you are pro, I'm sure you will understand the reason.

Edit 2. Also Theur works like a charm

Wed 29 May 2019 12:22 PM by gian

The OP has made some good points.

also the fact that theres a post exceeding 30 pages asking to fix Hib amnesia (Since launch) still unfixed or even looked at?

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4544&hilit=amnesia

and the fact other realms get nerfed almost immediately overnight..

makes me think that HIb seems to be guarded fiercely against any kind of blatant nerfage . it s easy to see bias when its this obvious and in your face.
you can all say what you want and whine all you like, but it is what it is.. the math doesnt lie.

I mean,of all the things, that Amnesia 2300 range insta cast, for one realm only is THE biggest deal breaker.

glaring bias simple as that!

fix it please. (still)

Thanks

Wed 29 May 2019 12:48 PM by kratoxin

Hibernia isn't really that OP compared to a good Albion caster setup... Animist is easy to deal with killing the tanglers as long as you have your group kill them/mez them as u push in and counter pressure. The tanglers can be 2-3 shot np, and take longer to cast than you think...

The only good Hibernia caster setup i even seen at all is PK, but they have been playing together for YEARS.

yes i still agree with nerfing Bard amnesia to at least 1800-2k range at least. like the others.

Wed 29 May 2019 1:54 PM by jonl

i agree with you nefcait but you are wrong about #3 and #5. You could always run a nature druid in a hib group and if you didn't u weren't running a good setup, you just needed to charge 1 buff on 2 players (we did warden + nurt druid charging s/c)

#5 - if the bard did not run endu the tanks would have a problem about 30 sec into the fight

i agree hib is by the far most op in 8v8 and 8vx in this ruleset (there's a reason all the guilds that rolled hib did so) , warden is the most op class on the server by far, with bard/druid being close 2nd/3rd.

this is what happens when custom changes are made and people don't fully understand the impact of the changes

Wed 29 May 2019 3:23 PM by MyCatKevin

jonl wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 1:54 PM
i agree with you nefcait but you are wrong about #3 and #5. You could always run a nature druid in a hib group and if you didn't u weren't running a good setup, you just needed to charge 1 buff on 2 players (we did warden + nurt druid charging s/c)

#5 - if the bard did not run endu the tanks would have a problem about 30 sec into the fight

i agree hib is by the far most op in 8v8 and 8vx in this ruleset (there's a reason all the guilds that rolled hib did so) , warden is the most op class on the server by far, with bard/druid being close 2nd/3rd.

this is what happens when custom changes are made and people don't fully understand the impact of the changes

Well, that certainly is an opinion.

Wed 29 May 2019 4:09 PM by Cadebrennus

Bard WS is another factor to think about when considering the viability of them being side-snaring machines. They simply won't connect as often as a Hybrid or Tank will.

The chart shows them on a higher level than other Naturalists but I think this is incorrect.

https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Table

Wed 29 May 2019 4:10 PM by Bradekes

MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 3:23 PM
jonl wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 1:54 PM
warden is the most op class on the server by far

Well, that certainly is an opinion.

Yeah wardens are so OP they have 0 range interrupts and the same major heal every healing class in the game has.. Not to mention base buffs.. Wow it's ridiculous that all three realms have PBT and resist buffs...

Wed 29 May 2019 5:32 PM by Nefcait

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 12:18 PM
You claim that you are a "pro" player. Witch are your toons on phoenix? because, to me, you sound like a mad 'cuz bad random player or a troll.

Nfct - Runemaster if that is of any relevance to the topic or to know of my background on this server

Wed 29 May 2019 6:06 PM by bigne88

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 5:32 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 12:18 PM
You claim that you are a "pro" player. Witch are your toons on phoenix? because, to me, you sound like a mad 'cuz bad random player or a troll.
Nfct - Runemaster if that is of any relevance to the topic or to know of my background on this server

Better players will always kick ur arse, dude. Before venting so mutch, have you ever asked yourself that maybe it is you, who needs to improve, not the others that has to be nerfed.
I strongly suggest you to record your own gameplay and take some time to review it and trying to understand your mistakes, cuz I'm sure it will be plenty of. Even better, hand the record to a capable player and ask for advices.

Also get 1 week free to log on hibernia, roll a bard, an eld, a warden and an animist and play with them on thidranki to get so e familiarity with the classes you face. Gameplay will differ from actual lvl 50 8v8, but still...

To prove that mids player are overall lower on skill, compared to otger realms, is the almost complete lack of 8v8 teams on the NA tournament.
You are a runie, good. Get some skill, get an hybrid setup and improve.
Mids are stucked on the tank-train setup, witch is easy to play and effective against average pugs, but a decent caster setup will roflstomp you.

Wed 29 May 2019 6:18 PM by vbt

Ya fuk hibs vw 10kdps/sec cast lifetap do more dmg than casters can't believe wardens get resists bards have weapon too wtf geez wtf is a shaman supposed to do without buff shears idk melee???? Fuk bards 2x with endo song gotta put it up twist shamans just have shit perma buff pally insta cast wtffff plz balance plz

Wed 29 May 2019 6:38 PM by Nefcait

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 6:06 PM
I strongly suggest you to record your own gameplay and take some time to review it and trying to understand your mistakes, cuz I'm sure it will be plenty of. Even better, hand the record to a capable player and ask for advices.

You seem to be a very capable player so please review my vods of older daoc freeshards and give me advice on how to improve
https://www.youtube.com/user/ReqVids/videos

Wed 29 May 2019 7:34 PM by suicide19

OP is clearly mistaken.

Top 30 Realm Point Characters All-time:

Hib: 17
Mid: 7
Alb: 6

Completely balanced.

Wed 29 May 2019 7:39 PM by Luydor

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 6:06 PM
I strongly suggest you to record your own gameplay and take some time to review it and trying to understand your mistakes, cuz I'm sure it will be plenty of. Even better, hand the record to a capable player and ask for advices.

That start to be kinda funny. I mean seriously? it is fucking NefCait

.
I strongly suggest everyone to record your own gameplay and take some time to let NefCait review it and trying to understand his response, cuz I'm sure he will laugh about your game play plenty of times.

Wed 29 May 2019 7:59 PM by vbt

suicide19 wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 7:34 PM
OP is clearly mistaken.

Top 30 Realm Point Characters All-time:

Hib: 17
Mid: 7
Alb: 6

Completely balanced.

See!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?! hibs make more rps too wtf plz give alb boost so 17=17 mid boost 2

Wed 29 May 2019 10:01 PM by dbeattie71

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 4:10 PM
MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 3:23 PM
jonl wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 1:54 PM
warden is the most op class on the server by far

Well, that certainly is an opinion.

Yeah wardens are so OP they have 0 range interrupts and the same major heal every healing class in the game has.. Not to mention base buffs.. Wow it's ridiculous that all three realms have PBT and resist buffs...

A Warden 234 shot me in a duel once, true story.

Wed 29 May 2019 11:36 PM by jonl

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 4:10 PM
MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 3:23 PM
jonl wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 1:54 PM
warden is the most op class on the server by far

Well, that certainly is an opinion.

Yeah wardens are so OP they have 0 range interrupts and the same major heal every healing class in the game has.. Not to mention base buffs.. Wow it's ridiculous that all three realms have PBT and resist buffs...

you don't understand daoc so there is no point explaining to you

Thu 30 May 2019 12:40 AM by MyCatKevin

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 4:10 PM
MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 3:23 PM
jonl wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 1:54 PM
warden is the most op class on the server by far

Well, that certainly is an opinion.

Yeah wardens are so OP they have 0 range interrupts and the same major heal every healing class in the game has.. Not to mention base buffs.. Wow it's ridiculous that all three realms have PBT and resist buffs...

Hey, Hey - short bow interrupts are truly game breaking!

Thu 30 May 2019 3:29 AM by Bradekes

jonl wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 11:36 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 4:10 PM
MyCatKevin wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 3:23 PM
Well, that certainly is an opinion.

Yeah wardens are so OP they have 0 range interrupts and the same major heal every healing class in the game has.. Not to mention base buffs.. Wow it's ridiculous that all three realms have PBT and resist buffs...

you don't understand daoc so there is no point explaining to you

Thanks for sparing me

Thu 30 May 2019 4:00 AM by bigne88

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 6:38 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 6:06 PM
I strongly suggest you to record your own gameplay and take some time to review it and trying to understand your mistakes, cuz I'm sure it will be plenty of. Even better, hand the record to a capable player and ask for advices.
You seem to be a very capable player so please review my vods of older daoc freeshards and give me advice on how to improve
https://www.youtube.com/user/ReqVids/videos

I never assumed or pretended to be good player, quite the opposite. Point is you sound pointless and funny when you squeal like a lurikeen about muh hib so op, and the fact that you loaded on YouTube some random gameplay vs pugs on an awfull freeshard of a dead game dosent make you look better.

Since you look pretty mad about tanglers, ill toss a random tip: pretend they are like theurg pets: you can CC them, kill them, avoid them, sos them. If in 2k19 you are still baited on a tangler...well...its just your fault, mr.progamer. cmon, everyone can improve! Even if you spent already thousands of hours on daoc and didnt learn yet how to deal with shrooms. Cmon, I belive in you.

If you dont wanna put effort on improving yourself and you dont like this server, feel free to go back to your freeshard where you were ruling like a boss.

Thu 30 May 2019 10:20 AM by Nefcait

@bigne88 You didn't get my point at all. I have played Hib for a large portion of my overall daoc time. I have played Hib with animists in grp on live/other freeshards. I have played against Animist tanglers many many times, I have mezzed,nuked,nearsighted,confused probably more than 10k Tanglers in my daoc career.

The thing is that tanglers have never been casting as fast and have never picked targets as fast on any other server, as they are doing here. On Live server people could run past tanglers before they rooted, a melee could run up to a tangler with speed 6 and attack it before it rooted anyone. On phoenix they will root 3 targets within 4 seconds, while the grp can stand behind them. Every spell that targets a Tangler is not cast on an enemy so it takes alot of pressure away from the Hib grp that uses them.

So the main Problem with tanglers is their obnoxiuos cast speed which has never ever been that fast on any other server.

I strongly suggest that YOU play AGAINST tanglers before typing stuff on your keyboard which you are absolutely clueless about

Thu 30 May 2019 10:32 AM by

gruenesschaf

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 11:08 PM
#2 Cure Nearsight is a major buff for Warden, why?
I know, wardens don't have cure nearsight, but nearsight was a very good tool to disable wardens on classic freeshards. It basically forced them to purge as they have no range independent spread heal like the main healers do, it reduced their healing capability by alot. Them having the new Major heal just makes this an even bigger thing. Warden is already a strong character with resists and pbt.

Nearsight was extremely strong and heavily affected all casting classes with primary healers being less affected, not really sure why you single out warden as being the one benefiting the most from it?
Does Cure NS affect the balance? Ofc, but I wouldn't say that it makes it worse.
Nearsight is still strong, at least when not just wasted but used to put more pressure on the healer who now also have to decide (when) to cure it. With NS cure existing it's much more like mezz: nearsighting something just because you can and not capitalizing on that but instead just letting it get cured is just a wasted immunity timer.

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 11:08 PM
#3 The recent buff changes were a huge buff to hib, why?
Hib is fine with just one buff druid now, before that they needed some specs from a second druid, now they don't. That means every hib grp can now run a nature druid without compromising anything.

Non lazy groups ran it before already, and it was the case in rule sets with buff bots too / on live. I don't think we really changed anything here.

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 11:08 PM
#4 Not having Buff shears on this server hurts albs/mids alot more than hibs, why?
Shaman/Cleric have a lot less utility than druid does, smiting as a cleric is useless, stun very situational. that's it, clerics can basically run around and wait for dmg. Every mid grp that has a caster has more than one char that can root, so shaman roots are not essential. The shaman can now run around and spam disease on everyone which is alot weaker here because disease cure has a higher range and Wardens also get it (which they didn't have in proper classic)

Clerics benefiting the most from shears is probably well known and that shaman isn't the only source for roots in most mid setups is also just the way it was and is, however I'd disagree with disease being a lot weaker, or at least I don't see it as a clear cut case.
While the range increase and more cure availability is a disease nerf, disease also became a lot stronger as single target heals are now usually the better option to heal due to the faster cast speed and being able to cast more than 6 heals in a fight. Therefore I wouldn't say that being forced to either spread or cure disease is now just a nuisance as it was when major was a lot more situational and major and greater were just slightly faster than spread. Not to mention the increased damage due to higher crit rates and other stuff which makes even the fast disease cures not really free to the point where disease doesn't matter.
I'm not really sure if it's a buff or nerf for disease in the end but I don't see disease as now being weak.

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 11:08 PM
#6 Animist Tanglers - completely broken, do not need to be explained further (no second range check, way too fast casting speed)

No second los or range check is not a bug, for cast speed find some video that conclusively shows how long the cast should take and report it as a bug if it's different from what we have here.

Thu 30 May 2019 10:39 AM by Nefcait

As People have been asking for suggestions

#1 Nearsight - Nearsight is alot stronger for hibs, than it is for other realms, why?
Simple : Instant Amnesia. How does instant Amnesia make nearsight stronger for Hibs you ask?
Because it is super easy for any decent bard to stop a healer or cleric from curing nearsight with instant amnesia, without putting themselves in danger due to its huge range, and because cure nearsight has such a long casting time. Even if an Aug Healer or Cleric is super defensive it is very easy for a bard to rupt his cure ns attempt. Hibs also have red Nearsight on the Best rvr spec for Elds - Supp Rm is really bad for rvr, Matter cab is also super weak compared to other specs that cab offers.

Solution ? Reduce Range for Instant Amnesia to bolt range instead of 2,3k. Not a huge nerf. Bards can still prevent sorcs from mezzing with instant Amnesia but it makes it harder to rupt every cure nearsight attempt of healers/clerics/friars

Other attempts to balance Hib
Remove Ichor RA from eld
Reduce tangler casting speed
Nerf the Major and Greater Heals for Warden/Shaman/Friar
Lower the value of endu reg pots and set the endu range for shaman/paladin/bard all to 1,875k locs. Forces Bard to play endu all the time, Albs are not in a bad spot so it is fine if they would have to pick a paladin as the char is not bad at all.
Remove Bedazzling Aura from valewalker - Only casters have it on other realms, doesn't make sense that a hybrid tank with det has access to it and hibs get that ra when playing a fulltank grp, they already have dashing and sob as defensive ra's with nnf. Giving them bedazzling aura too is just hilarious

Overall improvement to gameplay : Introduce Buff shears, make base and spec buff casts uninterruptable - Makes shamans and clerics more useful, makes hibs think about if it's worth to run full nature Druids

Thu 30 May 2019 11:30 AM by Taftaf

Main concern with hib is really about the tanglers, I agree with other issues but don't see them as gamebreaking. Tanglers have very little counterplay. Don't even wanna explain, just play alb or mid and go against it as a caster or a melee with confuse or without and see what happens, you will understand.

Thu 30 May 2019 11:39 AM by bigne88

Nefcait, you seem a nice guy and I apologize if I was over-aggressive; but...
Instead of venting on the RvR section, open a thread on the "suggestion" area, but instead of just raging about hib, you need to bring valid propositions, not just "nerf this, nerf that nerf what, because I say it is the right balance".
Did you even partecipated to phoenix alpha or beta? Did you actively partecipated on the server qol and class changes before the release? I doubt it, so you have no right to come here with your arrogance and randomly piss on the dev's hard work because you pretend to be a good player.
As I said already, if you don't respect the other's people hard work you can go back to your loved live or the other freeshards that you mention all the time.
If you like this server and feel like contributing to make it better, open a serious thread on the right section.

About the nearsight: do you know how hard is to coordinate an eldritch nearisghting 1 cleric and a bard rupting him with amnesia and mezzing the second cleric? Do you know about purge and cure mezz? You really have to relay on enemies bad positioning and your teamates being on the clock to put pressure, or your dear bard is fucked.

I think you should deal with the fact that hib is not op, but well tailored and super effective if given to a skilled team (witch are a smallllll minority on the server). Alb, I'm surd you know, is really hard to be played because sorcerers and cabbies has a lot of job to do and you have really small windows to focus dps. Mids are stucked on tank train, witch is easy to play and supereffective avainst average players (me included ofc), but it gets wrecked by well played casters setups.

Ah, paladin, imho, is a must on every alb setup. If you wanna have an edge abo e hib caster setup there is nothing better than an heat chant running

Thu 30 May 2019 11:45 AM by Leandrys

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Thu 30 May 2019 10:39 AM
As People have been asking for suggestions

#1 Nearsight - Nearsight is alot stronger for hibs, than it is for other realms, why?
Simple : Instant Amnesia. How does instant Amnesia make nearsight stronger for Hibs you ask?
Because it is super easy for any decent bard to stop a healer or cleric from curing nearsight with instant amnesia, without putting themselves in danger due to its huge range, and because cure nearsight has such a long casting time. Even if an Aug Healer or Cleric is super defensive it is very easy for a bard to rupt his cure ns attempt. Hibs also have red Nearsight on the Best rvr spec for Elds - Supp Rm is really bad for rvr, Matter cab is also super weak compared to other specs that cab offers.

Solution ? Reduce Range for Instant Amnesia to bolt range instead of 2,3k. Not a huge nerf. Bards can still prevent sorcs from mezzing with instant Amnesia but it makes it harder to rupt every cure nearsight attempt of healers/clerics/friars

Other attempts to balance Hib
Remove Ichor RA from eld
Reduce tangler casting speed
Nerf the Major and Greater Heals for Warden/Shaman/Friar
Lower the value of endu reg pots and set the endu range for shaman/paladin/bard all to 1,875k locs. Forces Bard to play endu all the time, Albs are not in a bad spot so it is fine if they would have to pick a paladin as the char is not bad at all.
Remove Bedazzling Aura from valewalker - Only casters have it on other realms, doesn't make sense that a hybrid tank with det has access to it and hibs get that ra when playing a fulltank grp, they already have dashing and sob as defensive ra's with nnf. Giving them bedazzling aura too is just hilarious

Overall improvement to gameplay : Introduce Buff shears, make base and spec buff casts uninterruptable - Makes shamans and clerics more useful, makes hibs think about if it's worth to run full nature Druids

Oh my God, so much cherrypicking, I've been hesitating between reporting you or answering, what the hell is this whiny thing...?

Special topkek about the VW, clearly the major number 1 threat about balance for Phoenix.

Thu 30 May 2019 2:15 PM by suicide19

Did a dev just come to this thread and say, all is fine, move on?

He is absolutely correct, just updated and it's even more balanced now:

OP is clearly mistaken.

Top 30 Realm Point Characters All-time:

Hib: 18
Mid: 7 (3 extremely group friendly shadowblades)
Alb: 5 (3 Ministrels)

Completely balanced.

Thu 30 May 2019 3:07 PM by Lollie

The hibs in the top 20 are in 3 different guilds who I dare say are hard core gamers, they could probably play any class and have them in the top 20, it doesn't make the classes over powered just mean they are very good players.

Thu 30 May 2019 3:37 PM by bigne88

Exactly. Top players on the list are the best of the server and the more long lasting and active guilds, witch actually performs great also on other realms.

Plus anyone seems to forget that lower pop realm has RP bonus.

As I said: hibs players are better than the other 2 realms, thats why it looks OP. Albs and mids can keep having their stealthers zerg going on.

Thu 30 May 2019 3:59 PM by Bjoranator

Hibs is best in defending
Mitds are best in open field
Albs are in between.

Issue is....
All improvements are for keeps and play in the hand of hibs.
We mids Could catch them on the way to keeps but now They port.
So?

In last weeks we seen hibs leave battlefield the moment open field battels took place.
We see them take empty keeps at night.....so?

Why not make owners of a keep port to their keep,for defending...the rest Can Walk.

Poetins killed loads of old action in daoc...havent They learned a thing?

Thu 30 May 2019 4:20 PM by Rewin

question: is it possible to enter keeps infight? if yes, pls change

Thu 30 May 2019 4:23 PM by RiffRaff

[attachment=0]LK2.jpg[/attachment]

Thu 30 May 2019 10:26 PM by Tool73

can only agree to this post, but u will not change some more hib well minded GM`s in their love for only this one realm. If there is something to do good for hib, they do it quickly, while me is waiting since 5 months on repair the fucking movement bug of pet 3 and 4 from bd train. most of the time those are miles behind the bd, cant do anything. Well, nerf of the dark bd pet damage took 5 days after first post in forum.....

Thu 30 May 2019 11:05 PM by REVOLTE

i gotta say, the new task system + port changes were a huuuuuge boon for hibs.
exactly what they needed really.

now, that theres hibgrps all over the place, can we finally talk about nerfing bard amnesia?
or implement NF charge - either is fine ♥

Thu 30 May 2019 11:38 PM by Keelia

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Thu 30 May 2019 10:39 AM
As People have been asking for suggestions

#1 Nearsight - Nearsight is alot stronger for hibs, than it is for other realms, why?
Simple : Instant Amnesia. How does instant Amnesia make nearsight stronger for Hibs you ask?
Because it is super easy for any decent bard to stop a healer or cleric from curing nearsight with instant amnesia, without putting themselves in danger due to its huge range, and because cure nearsight has such a long casting time. Even if an Aug Healer or Cleric is super defensive it is very easy for a bard to rupt his cure ns attempt. Hibs also have red Nearsight on the Best rvr spec for Elds - Supp Rm is really bad for rvr, Matter cab is also super weak compared to other specs that cab offers.

Solution ? Reduce Range for Instant Amnesia to bolt range instead of 2,3k. Not a huge nerf. Bards can still prevent sorcs from mezzing with instant Amnesia but it makes it harder to rupt every cure nearsight attempt of healers/clerics/friars

Other attempts to balance Hib
Remove Ichor RA from eld
Reduce tangler casting speed
Nerf the Major and Greater Heals for Warden/Shaman/Friar
Lower the value of endu reg pots and set the endu range for shaman/paladin/bard all to 1,875k locs. Forces Bard to play endu all the time, Albs are not in a bad spot so it is fine if they would have to pick a paladin as the char is not bad at all.
Remove Bedazzling Aura from valewalker - Only casters have it on other realms, doesn't make sense that a hybrid tank with det has access to it and hibs get that ra when playing a fulltank grp, they already have dashing and sob as defensive ra's with nnf. Giving them bedazzling aura too is just hilarious

Overall improvement to gameplay : Introduce Buff shears, make base and spec buff casts uninterruptable - Makes shamans and clerics more useful, makes hibs think about if it's worth to run full nature Druids

Insta amnesia? Dude sorcs and healers can sit at 2300 and spam it nonstop, not seeing how bards 2 instas is so op.

Thu 30 May 2019 11:52 PM by Bradekes

Tool73 wrote: ↑
Thu 30 May 2019 10:26 PM
can only agree to this post, but u will not change some more hib well minded GM`s in their love for only this one realm. If there is something to do good for hib, they do it quickly, while me is waiting since 5 months on repair the fucking movement bug of pet 3 and 4 from bd train. most of the time those are miles behind the bd, cant do anything. Well, nerf of the dark bd pet damage took 5 days after first post in forum.....

How do GM favor Hib exactly?? Hib has had absolutely 0 class buffs.. The only changes to hib classes have been the general class changes every realm has had..

But Alb has had buffs to paladin and wizard also a huge amount of buffs to friars (minus a RA tweak)

Mid has had buffs to thanes and hunters..

I'm not saying the changes they've made are unwarranted but come on there's no show of favoritism to hibs trust me. Just animist nerfs every other patch

Fri 31 May 2019 1:17 PM by gian

fix hib amnesia pls!

Fri 31 May 2019 1:43 PM by Bumbles

Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 30 May 2019 11:38 PM
Nefcait wrote: ↑
Thu 30 May 2019 10:39 AM
As People have been asking for suggestions

#1 Nearsight - Nearsight is alot stronger for hibs, than it is for other realms, why?
Simple : Instant Amnesia. How does instant Amnesia make nearsight stronger for Hibs you ask?
Because it is super easy for any decent bard to stop a healer or cleric from curing nearsight with instant amnesia, without putting themselves in danger due to its huge range, and because cure nearsight has such a long casting time. Even if an Aug Healer or Cleric is super defensive it is very easy for a bard to rupt his cure ns attempt. Hibs also have red Nearsight on the Best rvr spec for Elds - Supp Rm is really bad for rvr, Matter cab is also super weak compared to other specs that cab offers.

Solution ? Reduce Range for Instant Amnesia to bolt range instead of 2,3k. Not a huge nerf. Bards can still prevent sorcs from mezzing with instant Amnesia but it makes it harder to rupt every cure nearsight attempt of healers/clerics/friars

Other attempts to balance Hib
Remove Ichor RA from eld
Reduce tangler casting speed
Nerf the Major and Greater Heals for Warden/Shaman/Friar
Lower the value of endu reg pots and set the endu range for shaman/paladin/bard all to 1,875k locs. Forces Bard to play endu all the time, Albs are not in a bad spot so it is fine if they would have to pick a paladin as the char is not bad at all.
Remove Bedazzling Aura from valewalker - Only casters have it on other realms, doesn't make sense that a hybrid tank with det has access to it and hibs get that ra when playing a fulltank grp, they already have dashing and sob as defensive ra's with nnf. Giving them bedazzling aura too is just hilarious

Overall improvement to gameplay : Introduce Buff shears, make base and spec buff casts uninterruptable - Makes shamans and clerics more useful, makes hibs think about if it's worth to run full nature Druids

Insta amnesia? Dude sorcs and healers can sit at 2300 and spam it nonstop, not seeing how bards 2 instas is so op.

Then you are willfully ignorant and taking the time to explain it will be lost on you.

Fri 31 May 2019 6:22 PM by suicide19

Lollie wrote: ↑
Thu 30 May 2019 3:07 PM
The hibs in the top 20 are in 3 different guilds who I dare say are hard core gamers, they could probably play any class and have them in the top 20, it doesn't make the classes over powered just mean they are very good players.

Totally agree it just so happens that all the 'casuals' joined alb/mid while the real hardcore daoc gamers joined HIB. Totally factually supported, I agree.

The part where PK has all the top Hib players, but none of their Mids are in top 30 is just simply because they were so 'casual' when they played Mid, and just 'turned it on' after joining HIb.

Sat 1 Jun 2019 7:17 AM by teiloh

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Thu 30 May 2019 11:52 PM
How do GM favor Hib exactly?? Hib has had absolutely 0 class buffs.. The only changes to hib classes have been the general class changes every realm has had..

But Alb has had buffs to paladin and wizard also a huge amount of buffs to friars (minus a RA tweak)

Mid has had buffs to thanes and hunters..

I'm not saying the changes they've made are unwarranted but come on there's no show of favoritism to hibs trust me. Just animist nerfs every other patch

Sorcs were nerfed - almost all charmed pets were gutted in damage, absorb, abilities
Necros were nerfed and given QOL changes - take much more melee damage and DoTs do not interrupt every tick
Cabalists were nerfed - Emerald, Sapphire, Amber sim do not cast at the frequency/range they should and emerald DoT does not rupt every tick
Minstrels were nerfed - Minstrel charm was stripped of the standard damage bonus you get when a higher level creature hits a lower level one, and all charmed pets were nerfed. Cap on charm pulses per second, cap on pet level.
Reavers were nerfed - Abs/DPS debuff used to interrupt but NOT break mez. You used to be able to have a pulse on while SoS'd
Theurgists were nerfed - Air pets don't stun at range and there's a 16 pet limit now
Clerics were nerfed - Spec AF doesn't affect pets
All of Alb was nerfed - homogenized RAs, and no RR5s which made up for class weaknesses after the big homogenization

Alb is by far the most massively nerfed realm in the game and this isn't counting dozens of other bugs and inconsistencies. Giving the least played classes a few little buffs absolutely does not make up for how badly the realm was gutted.

Sat 1 Jun 2019 11:45 AM by Nefcait

Alb is still in a decent spot though, Mid is alot worse for grp rvr.
-Bd commander dies from 2 non spec nukes or 3 lighttank hits while all other summoned pets are 3x as tanky. Sure, bd is still super strong for soloing or smallmen but for grp rvr it's pretty weak due to how easily the pets are killed
-Zerker was the biggest looser of the custom lighttank block penetration nerf because it doesn't have slam as the other two do.
-Valewalker is BY FAR the strongest Hybrid - Ichor, bedazzling aura, disease proc and ranged rupt on a det tank are ridiculously overpowered
Other factors that make hib op have already been mentioned

Sat 1 Jun 2019 12:01 PM by Siouxsie

When hibs complain.. things get changed fast.
When mids or albs complain.. with 30-50 pages on forum... *crickets*

Yep, we know who the Phoenix devs love: Hib

And if you criticize how hib is overpowered, a whole bunch of "astroturfed" HIb posters yell at you saying: "It's fine! It's balanced! Nothing to see here!"
or you get idiots saying "You don't know how daoc works"

Well, we know how daoc works *here* at Phoenix

Sat 1 Jun 2019 12:56 PM by dstrmberg

gian wrote: ↑
Fri 31 May 2019 1:17 PM
fix hib amnesia pls!

This is a legit complaint. The other stuff mentioned in the thread can easily be countered by a 4 BD grp (which noone is currently running?)

Sat 1 Jun 2019 1:42 PM by Bradekes

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 12:01 PM
When hibs complain.. things get changed fast.
When mids or albs complain.. with 30-50 pages on forum... *crickets*

So when all the wardens complained about sucking in melee at the same time friars were complaining they didn't have utility, friars got buffs.

Also where's atleast one example of this being the case?? You're just saying shit... atleast teiloh gives examples I can respect that..

Sat 1 Jun 2019 1:59 PM by Bradekes

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 7:17 AM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Thu 30 May 2019 11:52 PM
How do GM favor Hib exactly?? Hib has had absolutely 0 class buffs.. The only changes to hib classes have been the general class changes every realm has had..

But Alb has had buffs to paladin and wizard also a huge amount of buffs to friars (minus a RA tweak)

Mid has had buffs to thanes and hunters..

I'm not saying the changes they've made are unwarranted but come on there's no show of favoritism to hibs trust me. Just animist nerfs every other patch

Sorcs were nerfed - almost all charmed pets were gutted in damage, absorb, abilities
Necros were nerfed and given QOL changes - take much more melee damage and DoTs do not interrupt every tick
Cabalists were nerfed - Emerald, Sapphire, Amber sim do not cast at the frequency/range they should and emerald DoT does not rupt every tick
Minstrels were nerfed - Minstrel charm was stripped of the standard damage bonus you get when a higher level creature hits a lower level one, and all charmed pets were nerfed. Cap on charm pulses per second, cap on pet level.
Reavers were nerfed - Abs/DPS debuff used to interrupt but NOT break mez. You used to be able to have a pulse on while SoS'd
Theurgists were nerfed - Air pets don't stun at range and there's a 16 pet limit now
Clerics were nerfed - Spec AF doesn't affect pets
All of Alb was nerfed - homogenized RAs, and no RR5s which made up for class weaknesses after the big homogenization

Alb is by far the most massively nerfed realm in the game and this isn't counting dozens of other bugs and inconsistencies. Giving the least played classes a few little buffs absolutely does not make up for how badly the realm was gutted.

If 80% of your complaints were actually towards class skills and abilities vs charmed/summoned pets I'd see your point.. But your complaints affect all realms, as well as hib has minstrel type charm as well.

Your complaint about necro is semi valid but necro were too strong beforehand..

Theurgist are under same constraints as animist which is fair - maybe the stun needs looked into further but isn't gamebreaking or realm balance breaking vs the buffs your classes have received.

Sat 1 Jun 2019 2:11 PM by teiloh

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 1:59 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 7:17 AM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Thu 30 May 2019 11:52 PM
How do GM favor Hib exactly?? Hib has had absolutely 0 class buffs.. The only changes to hib classes have been the general class changes every realm has had..

But Alb has had buffs to paladin and wizard also a huge amount of buffs to friars (minus a RA tweak)

Mid has had buffs to thanes and hunters..

I'm not saying the changes they've made are unwarranted but come on there's no show of favoritism to hibs trust me. Just animist nerfs every other patch

Sorcs were nerfed - almost all charmed pets were gutted in damage, absorb, abilities
Necros were nerfed and given QOL changes - take much more melee damage and DoTs do not interrupt every tick
Cabalists were nerfed - Emerald, Sapphire, Amber sim do not cast at the frequency/range they should and emerald DoT does not rupt every tick
Minstrels were nerfed - Minstrel charm was stripped of the standard damage bonus you get when a higher level creature hits a lower level one, and all charmed pets were nerfed. Cap on charm pulses per second, cap on pet level.
Reavers were nerfed - Abs/DPS debuff used to interrupt but NOT break mez. You used to be able to have a pulse on while SoS'd
Theurgists were nerfed - Air pets don't stun at range and there's a 16 pet limit now
Clerics were nerfed - Spec AF doesn't affect pets
All of Alb was nerfed - homogenized RAs, and no RR5s which made up for class weaknesses after the big homogenization

Alb is by far the most massively nerfed realm in the game and this isn't counting dozens of other bugs and inconsistencies. Giving the least played classes a few little buffs absolutely does not make up for how badly the realm was gutted.

If 80% of your complaints were actually towards class skills and abilities vs charmed/summoned pets I'd see your point.. But your complaints affect all realms, as well as hib has minstrel type charm as well.

Your complaint about necro is semi valid but necro were too strong beforehand..

Theurgist are under same constraints as animist which is fair - maybe the stun needs looked into further but isn't gamebreaking or realm balance breaking vs the buffs your classes have received.

they don't affect all realms. Enchanter pets we're only buffed because cast code was buffed. BD pets we're also buffed, doing more than double or triple their live damage. Animists pets cast faster. SM proc rates were increased by 300 percent or more and their intercept causes less pet damage. And Mentalists all have easy access to pets with strong abilities.

Emerald pet not interrupting every tick while this is a feature on live is an insane nerf. BD and Ench debuffs were fixed as known bugs on live yet they still interrupt.

And no, Theurgist constraints are not fair at all. Theurgist and animists are not in the same class of functionality. They shoehorned in a change from 5+ years after the animists pet cap "just because." Absolutely was not a tied/equivalent change. Animists had to be nerfed on live and here because of new power regen tools. Porting a 1.90 Theurg nerf for no reason is insane.

And Friars, Paladins and Wizards actually needed those buffs.

Sat 1 Jun 2019 2:29 PM by gian

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 1:59 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 7:17 AM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Thu 30 May 2019 11:52 PM
How do GM favor Hib exactly?? Hib has had absolutely 0 class buffs..

Exactly!

Good grief! you dont buff the realm which classes which are already OP to begin... do you? ;p

Sat 1 Jun 2019 2:42 PM by gotwqqd

Sounds like they are trying to fix a population problem by using a carrot instead of changing why they leave.

Sat 1 Jun 2019 5:51 PM by Azrael

It is already stated in the title that you primarily speak about grp rvr but if you would nerf hib you would affect my playstyle (just saying because they want to support all kinds of playstyles - hehehe) which is mainly duo or smallman. I am not happy about skalds det, bd pet damage , necros purge or friars snare too. woop woop
But I guess the grass is always ( or mostly) greener on the other side.
Just my 2 eurocents

Sun 2 Jun 2019 1:59 AM by Bradekes

gian wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 2:29 PM
Exactly!

Good grief! you dont buff the realm which classes which are already OP to begin... do you? ;p

Hib is not OP... Just because you aren't building counter groups on your realm doesn't mean hib is op.. Find out what shuts down a bard, use it, find out what shuts down an animist and use it... There's meta in other games for a reason... counter the meta, trying the same thing over and over and bitching "it isn't working" doesn't mean there's a balance issue, it means people focus too much on the fact they lost and not their strategy

Sun 2 Jun 2019 9:40 AM by bigne88

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 1:59 AM
gian wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 2:29 PM
Exactly!

Good grief! you dont buff the realm which classes which are already OP to begin... do you? ;p

Hib is not OP... Just because you aren't building counter groups on your realm doesn't mean hib is op.. Find out what shuts down a bard, use it, find out what shuts down an animist and use it... There's meta in other games for a reason... counter the meta, trying the same thing over and over and bitching "it isn't working" doesn't mean there's a balance issue, it means people focus too much on the fact they lost and not their strategy

Tbis is the most sense reply here.
Good and creative players in hibs found a working meta setup to deal with both mind tank train and albs.

Now it is time to the good mid players in alb and mid changing their meta.

And is not even this at all, because there are many 8v8 parties from mids and albs that zteam rolls my hib pug party and not because mid and hibs has OP classes, but just cause they have betted players than me and I'm selfcritic enough to recognize it and dont vent on the forum with stupid nonesense.

Ofc if Albs are still busy doing stealth zergs they wont adapt their meta. Same goes for mids stucked on the tank heavy party

Sun 2 Jun 2019 7:37 PM by Fribrand

The Devs on Phx have FAILED us...
They have ignored complaints that turrets, amnesia & stun.nuke.nuke were OP for some time.

Molvik was a test to see how the rules on THIS server affected RVR.
My experience from Molvik was that the Hibs dominated when ever they wanted.

The Hibs had full groups running freely through the BG attacking/killing everyone from solos all the way up to zergs 1.5x their strength.
When Hibs found a zerg too large to dominate, they dropped turrets and did a tactical retreat. Losing a few but escaping relatively unharmed.
Hibs would fall back only to draw their opponents in and then wipe them on the counter-attack before they could retreat.
They were able to attack and take (or almost take) the Alb tower multiple times, even under siege equipment bombardment.

Albs chased the Hibs back from their tower in a seesaw type fasion, sometimes all the way back to the Hib tower.
But, the Albs would mostly be wiped by the Hibs as they started their counter attack.
Albs were never able to attack the Hib (or Mid) Tower or even try at CK (while I was on).
Albs were not able to defend (and lost several times) Alb tower even with siege support against equal sized Hib attackers.
In fact, without siege equipment... Alb would likely never have been able to hold their tower at all.
Albs were able to run 8-man groups at Mids and fair somewhat well until overran by the roaming Hibs groups.

Mids were always in control of CK (when I was on).
They tangled with the Hibs at Hib tower constantly but always in range of the safety of CK.
Mids seemed most successful in adding the Alb/Hib battle from the side on the hill east of CK.
Mids were able to run 8-man groups at Albs and fair somewhat well until overran by the roaming Hibs groups.

These are my personal observations, but I was on multiple times for a large portion of the event with different alts.
People can argue that observations are biased but I can tell you they are pretty accurate.

Shortly after the event ended... I logged on to the Herald and checked the RPs earned over the last 48 hours.
The top 24 RP earners were: 17-Hib, 5-Mid & 2-Alb!!!!!
You can try and discount my observations... You can try and discount the 100+ pages of forum chat about OP Hibs...
You can NOT discount the real stats that were generated... No one can...

The Devs have failed us and the STATS speak for themselves.
I heard that this server started because those on Uthgard failed to listen to the players...
It looks like these Devs have the same problem as those on Uthgard did.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 8:26 AM by Razur Ur

Skalde, Savage and Berserker with Vendo is not OP?

Mon 3 Jun 2019 11:30 AM by Aph

God I hope the devs don't include this nonsense when making future changes... The best players on the server plays all the realms with success? Come hib and get rolled by Prime and then let us know how 2300 amn and baseline stun is so unfair. Just because you run into the best players on the server doesen't mean the realm is OP... Would be really good for these nay-sayers to see how the best players perform on their respective albs and mids!