gray ganking

Started 7 May 2019
by Roks
in Suggestions
EXPing in the FZ as a gray has become unrewarding again. Although 50s do not get any sort of RP for killing grays this still does not stop quite a few of them from doing so.
I would like to see something implemented that is sorta of a stackable "debuff" for a 50 that kills a gray. A bounty sort of speak. Just say per each gray kill, your total worth goes up 100 RPs. Only way to remove this debuff is to be killed in rvr combat.
This probably will not stop gray ganking, but its a trade off.
Tue 7 May 2019 5:02 PM by Wintil
I never have been ganked while XPing outside FZ.
If you don't want to get ganked, don't go in FZ.
You have a bonus reward on task while in FZ and can drop Tiderbox aswell. It's more rewarding because you can get ganked.
Tue 7 May 2019 5:06 PM by PingGuy
Wintil wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:02 PM
I never have been ganked while XPing outside FZ.
If you don't want to get ganked, don't go in FZ.
You have a bonus reward on task while in FZ and can drop Tiderbox aswell. It's more rewarding because you can get ganked.

That's great for you, that you never got ganked, plenty of people have. The difference is that getting ganked used to trigger the realm task and give some return on the risk taken. Now that the task has been shut off below level 35, getting ganked is just getting your time wasted. It's something that should be discussed, because it wasn't the intended reason for the change, just collateral damage.
Tue 7 May 2019 5:12 PM by Luluko
PingGuy wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:06 PM
Wintil wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:02 PM
I never have been ganked while XPing outside FZ.
If you don't want to get ganked, don't go in FZ.
You have a bonus reward on task while in FZ and can drop Tiderbox aswell. It's more rewarding because you can get ganked.

That's great for you, that you never got ganked, plenty of people have. The difference is that getting ganked used to trigger the realm task and give some return on the risk taken. Now that the task has been shut off below level 35, getting ganked is just getting your time wasted. It's something that should be discussed, because it wasn't the intended reason for the change, just collateral damage.

then xp in the battlegrounds there you get ganked prolly a lot more even tho those are "only" a few lvls higher
Tue 7 May 2019 5:25 PM by PingGuy
Luluko wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:12 PM
then xp in the battlegrounds there you get ganked prolly a lot more even tho those are "only" a few lvls higher

I don't need any help getting ganked, I'm REALLY good at it on my own. Although the BG's might provide some variety. In the FZ's it's like 80% Assassins, in the BG's it could potentially be lower than that, potentially...
Tue 7 May 2019 5:58 PM by Roks
PingGuy wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:06 PM
Wintil wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:02 PM
I never have been ganked while XPing outside FZ.
If you don't want to get ganked, don't go in FZ.
You have a bonus reward on task while in FZ and can drop Tiderbox aswell. It's more rewarding because you can get ganked.

That's great for you, that you never got ganked, plenty of people have. The difference is that getting ganked used to trigger the realm task and give some return on the risk taken. Now that the task has been shut off below level 35, getting ganked is just getting your time wasted. It's something that should be discussed, because it wasn't the intended reason for the change, just collateral damage.

Exactly. All Im saying is there should be a bounty for killing grays. This adds to the element of the game for 50s.
But, there is still people out there that will kill grays even if they do not count for stats or RPs, just because they want to be giant A-holes. So why dont we rewards A-holes with a buff that does not get cleared by pve deaths or log outs, only pvp deaths will clear this.
Tue 7 May 2019 5:58 PM by Roks
PingGuy wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:25 PM
Luluko wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:12 PM
then xp in the battlegrounds there you get ganked prolly a lot more even tho those are "only" a few lvls higher

I don't need any help getting ganked, I'm REALLY good at it on my own. Although the BG's might provide some variety. In the FZ's it's like 80% Assassins, in the BG's it could potentially be lower than that, potentially...

Nah now we will get ganked by Minstrels or BDs in BGs.
Tue 7 May 2019 6:10 PM by florin
I gank grays - some classes are kill on sight. Some times I don't. I love the idea of a bounty on gankers as well as on high I Remain Standing players per task period.
Tue 7 May 2019 6:19 PM by kratoxin
Roks wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:58 PM
PingGuy wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:25 PM
Luluko wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:12 PM
then xp in the battlegrounds there you get ganked prolly a lot more even tho those are "only" a few lvls higher

I don't need any help getting ganked, I'm REALLY good at it on my own. Although the BG's might provide some variety. In the FZ's it's like 80% Assassins, in the BG's it could potentially be lower than that, potentially...

Nah now we will get ganked by Minstrels or BDs in BGs.
don't forget animist camping trees ^^ LOL
Wed 8 May 2019 7:07 AM by Estat
I like the idea of a bounty if there is a leaderboard for highest bounty and realm wide messages like „Relvinian is on a rampage“ when he manages to kill 100 greyswithout dying.
Wed 8 May 2019 7:21 AM by Sepplord
yeah, i don't think such a stack would change anything for the better of the grays...
people would probably try and stack it up as high as possible

i have also been killed by grey adders quite often in DF.
I still don't initiate on them but they attack me/move to attack me -> i fight them

why should someone get more RP for killing me after greys have helped to not let me restealth?



The solution to not being ganked is easy: don't lvl in the frontier. The 20% XP bonus pales in comparison with the Mob-Type bonus anyways
Wed 8 May 2019 2:52 PM by klaggorn
Make grays worth again because red is dead. Allow the gray a 20 second window to send a tell to the person who killed you to voice your frustration and how clearly they have no business killing you.
Fri 10 May 2019 1:18 AM by Roks
kratoxin wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 6:19 PM
Roks wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:58 PM
PingGuy wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:25 PM
I don't need any help getting ganked, I'm REALLY good at it on my own. Although the BG's might provide some variety. In the FZ's it's like 80% Assassins, in the BG's it could potentially be lower than that, potentially...

Nah now we will get ganked by Minstrels or BDs in BGs.
don't forget animist camping trees ^^ LOL

Easiest RPs for assassins ever.
Fri 10 May 2019 4:33 AM by Signus
PingGuy wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:06 PM
Wintil wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:02 PM
I never have been ganked while XPing outside FZ.
If you don't want to get ganked, don't go in FZ.
You have a bonus reward on task while in FZ and can drop Tiderbox aswell. It's more rewarding because you can get ganked.

That's great for you, that you never got ganked, plenty of people have. The difference is that getting ganked used to trigger the realm task and give some return on the risk taken. Now that the task has been shut off below level 35, getting ganked is just getting your time wasted. It's something that should be discussed, because it wasn't the intended reason for the change, just collateral damage.

That's the risk vs reward of going into the frontiers. You may die. If you don't wanna risk it, go elsewhere. People were abusing the system before and leveling up just by suicide.
Fri 10 May 2019 6:19 AM by Sepplord
Roks wrote:
Fri 10 May 2019 1:18 AM
kratoxin wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 6:19 PM
Roks wrote:
Tue 7 May 2019 5:58 PM
Nah now we will get ganked by Minstrels or BDs in BGs.
don't forget animist camping trees ^^ LOL

Easiest RPs for assassins ever.

There are many targets i deem easier on my SB than animist that are sitting in/near there shroomfarm
Fri 10 May 2019 8:15 AM by Caver89
Its always the same: if you level in the fz zones or df there is always a risk getting ganked. nothing will stop peoplr killing the greys, no debuffs no bounty points.

i had some mid grps who killed only our healer so our grp wiped on mobs and lost xp. in this szenario only one grey was killed the rest will die on mobs. how do you want to adress this? you cant change people's minds.

you only talked about the innocent greys, but in my expierence a lot of grey xp groups add in 50vs50 fights. even if there is no high dmg from them they can still rupt healers/casters. how do you want to adress this?
Fri 10 May 2019 12:56 PM by PingGuy
Signus wrote:
Fri 10 May 2019 4:33 AM
That's the risk vs reward of going into the frontiers. You may die. If you don't wanna risk it, go elsewhere. People were abusing the system before and leveling up just by suicide.

Yeah, I know, that's why I never would have leveled in the FZ's without the task. So now I won't anymore, which means less targets, which means less fun for those who like to stalk levelers in the FZ's. It messes the system up for everybody involved. I was happy to present myself as a potential target because the risk was worth it under that system.

As far as your "people were abusing the system" talk, let's explore that shall we? So I played a Ranger to level 8, and then intended to ride the task wave to see how far I could get on just shooting people with arrows any chance I got. You know how much task exp you get for a 15 minute block, at level 8, slightly over 1 bubble. So that's like 4.5 bubbles an hour. That works out to 2 hours and 15 minutes to get level 9. And from there it only gets slower as you level up. So tell me, who are these elite geniuses that are abusing the system to get 1 level in 2 hours? Man, they must be owning the server. It just shows how ignorant you are being about this, leveling by task is not faster at low levels.

Now 30+, the task can be quite helpful to fill in a few bubbles and hit the next level so you can turn in new items. But it's still not faster than a good leveling group. 40+ you get like half a bubble per 15 minute block. That's 30 minutes per bubble, or 4 hours and 30 minutes per level. Granted, you start getting the 5/5, 10/10 task rewards but those get slower and slower and only pay out the same as a 15 minute tick.

It doesn't matter now that they shut the task off below level 35 anyway. Though I'd be happy enough if they lowered that to 20.
Fri 10 May 2019 4:44 PM by Wintil
You also get Ranked, my NS is 2L2 with MoP 5....
And he was 1L5 with MoP 3 at lvl 10... It helps....
And to get it, i rushed 4 times in guards on keep, not even on task zone, or i got killed rupting the speed on a group, because diing made me win and was worth it....

In what universe, losing is a win ?
Fri 10 May 2019 5:24 PM by PingGuy
Wintil wrote:
Fri 10 May 2019 4:44 PM
You also get Ranked, my NS is 2L2 with MoP 5....
And he was 1L5 with MoP 3 at lvl 10... It helps....
And to get it, i rushed 4 times in guards on keep, not even on task zone, or i got killed rupting the speed on a group, because diing made me win and was worth it....

In what universe, losing is a win ?

In one where you want the losers to keep showing up, even if they keep losing.
Fri 10 May 2019 5:42 PM by Bobbahunter
There should also be an XP nerf to greys that add on a 50s fight. Every fight I have with another 50 and there’s a grey around they add. Always. So do I take a chance fighting the 50 only to have the grey throw heals out or mezz my pet. Or do I one shot the grey and still fight the 50 with no worries. I’ve had plenty of fight that I had to put my pet on the grey just so I could shoot my bow and not get interrupted . So don’t come crying about getting ganged when you will 100% of the time add on my fights
Fri 10 May 2019 10:32 PM by Signus
PingGuy wrote:
Fri 10 May 2019 12:56 PM
Signus wrote:
Fri 10 May 2019 4:33 AM
That's the risk vs reward of going into the frontiers. You may die. If you don't wanna risk it, go elsewhere. People were abusing the system before and leveling up just by suicide.

Yeah, I know, that's why I never would have leveled in the FZ's without the task. So now I won't anymore, which means less targets, which means less fun for those who like to stalk levelers in the FZ's. It messes the system up for everybody involved.


Sounds like it ONLY messes up the system for people who like to grey gank, and that's not a community we need to desperately cultivate.

Because it sounds like you were ONLY in the frontier for the fast leveling, and now that the risk outweighs the reward, you're not there.

But your fast leveling bonuses are still in game, just in a different spot. And now that spot is alive and well again, improving the gameplay for the people actually playing the game.

Let the grey gankers move to Darkness Falls.

And if you think people weren't abusing the task system for free stuff, you weren't playing. Your example of a ranger taking random shots at people isn't what I was talking about. It was the droves of people just suiciding in the frontiers to get a ton of free RPs. Now that exploit is gone and people have to earn their RPs again.
Sat 11 May 2019 7:12 AM by Corpse
I gank every Grey, why? Cuz greys like to add, even if its a 10sec mezz or 5sec stun or even just interrupts they are still capable. I have been on both sides of being a grey. I have also helped a solo by landing a stun for him. I have also been constantly interrupted by greys allowing another 50 to get the kill. Greys are not harmless and most will join in on a fight if given the opportunity.

IF ITS RED IT'S DEAD!
Mon 13 May 2019 1:43 PM by PingGuy
Signus wrote:
Fri 10 May 2019 10:32 PM
Sounds like it ONLY messes up the system for people who like to grey gank, and that's not a community we need to desperately cultivate.

...

Let the grey gankers move to Darkness Falls.

It messes it up for them, and for those they gank. I was the latter many times, but have never been the former. The FZ's are dangerous, period. We can't expect people not to kill this or engage that. My point is that it's not worth the risk in time spent to run out to the FZ's to exp without the task, especially if you want to keep going back out after the first time you get ganked. The task is a good incentive to run around in the FZ's and try to level there. If you don't provide incentives to participation, then the people who die repeatedly with no success will give up and quit, because they have no chance at advancement. Maybe you don't gray gank, but the people who level in the FZ's will be found and killed eventually. What matters most is that they keep coming back.

Signus wrote:
Fri 10 May 2019 10:32 PM
Because it sounds like you were ONLY in the frontier for the fast leveling, and now that the risk outweighs the reward, you're not there.

But your fast leveling bonuses are still in game, just in a different spot. And now that spot is alive and well again, improving the gameplay for the people actually playing the game.

I was in the frontier for a mix of reasons. The task items, the bonus exp, the campfire clickies, and also to see something different. But the task was my failsafe if things went south. It was a reason to risk the time investment of running out and dodging mobs and players again.

I'm fine with the BG's being active and people being happy about it, but the way they are setup now there is zero chance I would ever visit them. The FZ's are big and hilly, you can hide, move around, or blend in. There are more people there that could slow down or kill potential opponents. The BG's are small and filled with people mostly looking to kill me, whereas the FZ's are large and mostly filled with people who have other targets to worry about.

Signus wrote:
Fri 10 May 2019 10:32 PM
And if you think people weren't abusing the task system for free stuff, you weren't playing. Your example of a ranger taking random shots at people isn't what I was talking about. It was the droves of people just suiciding in the frontiers to get a ton of free RPs. Now that exploit is gone and people have to earn their RPs again.

How can I explain this any simpler? If the task barely gave more than a bubble at level 8 per 15 minutes, then who cares if somebody levels that way? We're talking two hours per level at level 8, when they could be level 9 in 15 minutes or less just by killing the stuff around them. Why can't you get that through your head? It scales down and gets slower as you level. In the 40's it's half a bubble, that's 20 ticks per level, 20 x 15 = 300 minutes = 5 hours. Who cares if somebody takes 5 hours to level by running around and getting killed?

Had I continued leveling to 50 from level 8 using that method, it would have taken approximately 100 hours, which is just over 4 days played, without ever missing a tick of the task. I'm already a slow leveler on this server, and taking 48 hours has had people telling me I'm doing something wrong and it shouldn't be that slow. So why does it matter if somebody wastes 2 extra days to level in a way that isn't traditional?
Tue 14 May 2019 6:22 PM by Signus
PingGuy wrote:
Mon 13 May 2019 1:43 PM
Signus wrote:
Fri 10 May 2019 10:32 PM
Sounds like it ONLY messes up the system for people who like to grey gank, and that's not a community we need to desperately cultivate.

...

Let the grey gankers move to Darkness Falls.

It messes it up for them, and for those they gank. I was the latter many times, but have never been the former. The FZ's are dangerous, period. We can't expect people not to kill this or engage that. My point is that it's not worth the risk in time spent to run out to the FZ's to exp without the task, especially if you want to keep going back out after the first time you get ganked. The task is a good incentive to run around in the FZ's and try to level there. If you don't provide incentives to participation, then the people who die repeatedly with no success will give up and quit, because they have no chance at advancement. Maybe you don't gray gank, but the people who level in the FZ's will be found and killed eventually. What matters most is that they keep coming back.

Signus wrote:
Fri 10 May 2019 10:32 PM
Because it sounds like you were ONLY in the frontier for the fast leveling, and now that the risk outweighs the reward, you're not there.

But your fast leveling bonuses are still in game, just in a different spot. And now that spot is alive and well again, improving the gameplay for the people actually playing the game.

I was in the frontier for a mix of reasons. The task items, the bonus exp, the campfire clickies, and also to see something different. But the task was my failsafe if things went south. It was a reason to risk the time investment of running out and dodging mobs and players again.

I'm fine with the BG's being active and people being happy about it, but the way they are setup now there is zero chance I would ever visit them. The FZ's are big and hilly, you can hide, move around, or blend in. There are more people there that could slow down or kill potential opponents. The BG's are small and filled with people mostly looking to kill me, whereas the FZ's are large and mostly filled with people who have other targets to worry about.

Signus wrote:
Fri 10 May 2019 10:32 PM
And if you think people weren't abusing the task system for free stuff, you weren't playing. Your example of a ranger taking random shots at people isn't what I was talking about. It was the droves of people just suiciding in the frontiers to get a ton of free RPs. Now that exploit is gone and people have to earn their RPs again.

How can I explain this any simpler? If the task barely gave more than a bubble at level 8 per 15 minutes, then who cares if somebody levels that way? We're talking two hours per level at level 8, when they could be level 9 in 15 minutes or less just by killing the stuff around them. Why can't you get that through your head? It scales down and gets slower as you level. In the 40's it's half a bubble, that's 20 ticks per level, 20 x 15 = 300 minutes = 5 hours. Who cares if somebody takes 5 hours to level by running around and getting killed?

Had I continued leveling to 50 from level 8 using that method, it would have taken approximately 100 hours, which is just over 4 days played, without ever missing a tick of the task. I'm already a slow leveler on this server, and taking 48 hours has had people telling me I'm doing something wrong and it shouldn't be that slow. So why does it matter if somebody wastes 2 extra days to level in a way that isn't traditional?


"My point is that it's not worth the risk in time spent to run out to the FZ's to exp without the task, especially if you want to keep going back out after the first time you get ganked. The task is a good incentive to run around in the FZ's and try to level there. "

Yes, I understand that. Now it's not worth it to go out there. Unless you're in love with that particular zone, you as the person being ganked have lost nothing by having your xp bonuses moved to a different realm. Unless you just enjoyed getting free realm points, in which case, I have no sympathy. Realm points should be earned. If you're worried that you may have to risk death for a high xp bonus... that's how risk vs reward works. At least this death you risk you actually have the ability to defend yourself.

The only people that potentially lost something, are grey gankers. And they could still do that in Darkness Falls if they wanted.

"How can I explain this any simpler? If the task barely gave more than a bubble at level 8 per 15 minutes, then who cares if somebody levels that way? We're talking two hours per level at level 8, when they could be level 9 in 15 minutes or less just by killing the stuff around them. Why can't you get that through your head? It scales down and gets slower as you level."

How can I explain any simpler? The concern is free realm points and a dead Battlegrounds. Both of which were the consequence of the broken task system that is now fixed. Either you misread my post or you're being willfully ignorant.
Tue 14 May 2019 6:50 PM by PingGuy
Signus wrote:
Tue 14 May 2019 6:22 PM
"My point is that it's not worth the risk in time spent to run out to the FZ's to exp without the task, especially if you want to keep going back out after the first time you get ganked. The task is a good incentive to run around in the FZ's and try to level there. "

Yes, I understand that. Now it's not worth it to go out there. Unless you're in love with that particular zone, you as the person being ganked have lost nothing by having your xp bonuses moved to a different realm. Unless you just enjoyed getting free realm points, in which case, I have no sympathy. Realm points should be earned. If you're worried that you may have to risk death for a high xp bonus... that's how risk vs reward works. At least this death you risk you actually have the ability to defend yourself.

The only people that potentially lost something, are grey gankers. And they could still do that in Darkness Falls if they wanted.

Old way: Run to FZ, get killed, get stuff, consider running back.
New way: Run to BG, get killed, get nothing, never go back.

You keep saying the bonuses were moved, but that's not what happened. One mechanic was removed from the FZs and another was added to the BGs. And yes, I liked the RP's from the task, up until about 2L8 the task was greatly rewarding. Yes, yes, I know, you are hardcore and walked uphill in the snow both ways to get your RP's. We'll be sure to put that on your gravestone... The point is that the task rewards are an incentive to participation, which keeps the FZ's active. Whether you liked it or not, they worked.

Signus wrote:
Tue 14 May 2019 6:22 PM
"How can I explain this any simpler? If the task barely gave more than a bubble at level 8 per 15 minutes, then who cares if somebody levels that way? We're talking two hours per level at level 8, when they could be level 9 in 15 minutes or less just by killing the stuff around them. Why can't you get that through your head? It scales down and gets slower as you level."

How can I explain any simpler? The concern is free realm points and a dead Battlegrounds. Both of which were the consequence of the broken task system that is now fixed. Either you misread my post or you're being willfully ignorant.

Not broken, just not focused on what you care about (the BG's). I was never against getting more people in the BG's, but I wasn't willing to lose the task to do it. Yes, yes, the free RP's again. This is our greatest disagreement, you think it matters, I don't. In fact, without the benefits of the task during the leveling process, I'd have been gone from this server after about two weeks. I like to level characters and see how I feel about them, I like some RA's to speed the process along and fill out the character. This drives some people absolutely insane that even one person got 1L2 without having to win a battle against another player. It's asinine, everybody has access to this, who cares?
Thu 23 May 2019 12:33 PM by Dadoo
Don't want to be killed ? Easy as hell : Don't XP in FZ !!!

It's WAR in this area, just remember it.
Fri 24 May 2019 6:54 AM by Gorgoroth
While I understand the frustration of being ganked can cause, there should be no penalty imposed on the ganker.

Leveling in the frontier zones has benefits, like better exp and getting tinders, but that should have possible downsides too.

That said, i think most grey gankers are alb stealthers (especially grouped ones), which says a lot about them. No honor yo be found in them.

It used to be a rule of thumb, that you should only kill grey ones, if they add on you in a fight. I still stick to that. But thats just me.
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