Vanish

Started 20 Mar 2019
by dirtyblade
in RvR
Ok, I play a stealther and I am really, really starting to hate Vanish...

Hardly anyone specced Vanish on live servers, not even in the old days. But here, almost 90% of assassins spec it and its starting to get fecking frustrating.

6/8 fights ive had tonight have used vanish.

I think personally, put Vanish on a 30 min timer, not 15 mins

or

increase it to 15 points RA's

for 5 RA's its way too powerful

Rant off... what do you guys think ????
Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:07 PM by Riac
dirtyblade wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:03 PM
Ok, I play a stealther and I am really, really starting to hate Vanish...

Hardly anyone specced Vanish on live servers, not even in the old days. But here, almost 90% of assassins spec it and its starting to get fecking frustrating.

6/8 fights ive had tonight have used vanish.

I think personally, put Vanish on a 30 min timer, not 15 mins

or

increase it to 15 points RA's

for 5 RA's its way too powerful

Rant off... what do you guys think ????

must have missed that whole thing where no one speced vanish on live
Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:12 PM by Raec
A shadow asking for a vanish nerf is like a billionaire pretending more taxes. Fake or bdsm lover.
Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:57 PM by dirtyblade
see my name and look on Herald... you will see i play infil
Thu 21 Mar 2019 12:06 AM by Raec
Than , bend down and get ready for some spanking, u little sub
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:26 AM by Spewy
I agree vanish is frustrating but at the same time I dont know how much time he saved my life.

So I will take it as a frustration, I rather to dont kill someone that to /rel
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:27 AM by inoeth
im up for a nerf

playing hunter/sb
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:50 AM by jelzinga_EU
"Way too powerful" ? The entire use of Vanish is to not die but to get away. It does not give RP's to the assassin and puts him out of the fight for 30 seconds due to the silence+disarm it gives.

I understand it is frustrating when you fight an assassin and he/she vanishes - but calling it powerful.. at best it literally counters what you tried to throw at him, so it's hardly gamebreaking. I can understand a lot of QQ about a lot of things but about Vanish the QQ is literally only about denying you RP's you think you deserved but did not get - nothing else.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 12:08 PM by dirtyblade
So, my RvR last night...

I fight 1... he vanishes... i get rolled... they get RP
I fight v 2... 1 vanishes... i get rolled... they get RP
I fight v 2... 1 vanishes... fg roll me... they get RP
I fight 1 and immediately vanishes... i get rolled by fg same realm

I fight 1 who almost dies but vanishes then 1 watching steps in and kills me... they get RP

Hense my frustration

So dont give all this crap about them not getting RP
Thu 21 Mar 2019 1:20 PM by dbeattie71
I don’t have vanish, it’s a waste of points imo. When someone vanishes on me I find them 50% of the time. I’ve fought some SBs that maybe wouldn’t of had to use vanish if they put those points elsewhere 😮.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 1:46 PM by Sepplord
dirtyblade wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 12:08 PM
So, my RvR last night...

I fight 1... he vanishes... i get rolled... they get RP
I fight v 2... 1 vanishes... i get rolled... they get RP
I fight v 2... 1 vanishes... fg roll me... they get RP
I fight 1 and immediately vanishes... i get rolled by fg same realm

I fight 1 who almost dies but vanishes then 1 watching steps in and kills me... they get RP

Hense my frustration

So dont give all this crap about them not getting RP

They would have gotten those RP if they had died too though...so, no, vanishing did not bring in any extra RP

It denied you of some, and i get that it's frustrating...i have been on the recieving end multiple times too.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 1:49 PM by phixion
Vanish is working as intended, it's frustrations are far outweighed when you are the one vanishing to get away from a zerg for example.

You are disarmed and silenced for 30 seconds upon using it, once you are found you are dead.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:01 PM by Bumbles
Vanish is terrible. I totally agree it needs to be on a 30 minute timer and cost WAY more RPs to get. Again you get to decide when and what you fight for the most part, so if you choose wrong you should't get a pass to try again.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:41 PM by phixion
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:01 PM
Vanish is terrible. I totally agree it needs to be on a 30 minute timer and cost WAY more RPs to get. Again you get to decide when and what you fight for the most part, so if you choose wrong you should't get a pass to try again.

You've obviously never played a stealther here, if you had, you'd know that opportunities to jump anyone are few and far between.

I love vanish, gets me away from those adding n00blets that like to ruin every fight. Vanish helps you get away from the zerg after winning a fight, it also lets you get away when you're losing a fight... every 15 minutes.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:50 PM by jelzinga_EU
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:01 PM
Vanish is terrible. I totally agree it needs to be on a 30 minute timer and cost WAY more RPs to get. Again you get to decide when and what you fight for the most part, so if you choose wrong you should't get a pass to try again.

Based on what makes you think "they shouldn't get a pass to try again" ? Fairness?
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:53 PM by phixion
Let's be real, the only people whining about vanish are those who either get killed and the guy vanished to get away from the mob zerg heading his way, or you are part of the mob zerg and are annoyed you cannot get revenge.

Vanish doesn't win anything, it's an escape tool, one that sometimes fails.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 4:05 PM by Yokahu
phixion wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:53 PM
Let's be real, the only people whining about vanish are those who either get killed and the guy vanished to get away from the mob zerg heading his way, or you are part of the mob zerg and are annoying you cannot get revenge.

Vanish doesn't win anything, it's an escape tool, one that sometimes fails.

I don’t know... more than half of the assassins that jump me vanish when they see I don’t go down after a PA and the stun... and this is when I solo btw.

I haven’t whine about it thou, so maybe your statement might be correct.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 4:12 PM by djegu
I don't use Vanish, sure sometimes i get rolled i wish i had vanish, but overall not having Vanish doesn't affect me that much.
For me when a stealther use Vanish against me, sure i don't get RPs but that's mean he lost his fight and decided to get away.
Sometimes i get added when i attack someone, sometimes i can kill the adders sometimes not, That's part of the game.
Having the ability to choose my fight it's already powerful as a solo class vs a visi solo class.

I understand SB using vanish because they are always the underpop stealther, they think they got that inf and paf 2-3 scout/inf show up with their mins friends.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 4:21 PM by Tritri
btw how does vanish works exactly ? You gain any immunity to cc / spells for a time ? improved stealth ? move speed ? I never played a stealther with vanish
Thu 21 Mar 2019 4:29 PM by WeaselSoup
the core problem with all of this is mastery of stealth is not an RA and is given for free. One of the main counters to this ability is essentially gone and assassins would normally have to spec higher to make this as effective as it is right now for only 5 points.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:13 PM by paul_g
dirtyblade wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:03 PM
Ok, I play a stealther and I am really, really starting to hate Vanish...

Hardly anyone specced Vanish on live servers, not even in the old days. But here, almost 90% of assassins spec it and its starting to get fecking frustrating.

6/8 fights ive had tonight have used vanish.

I think personally, put Vanish on a 30 min timer, not 15 mins

or

increase it to 15 points RA's

for 5 RA's its way too powerful

Rant off... what do you guys think ????


Keep it as is but make it to where it can't be used within 1500 units of another friendly stealth!!!!

OH WHAT A TWIST!
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:33 PM by phixion
paul_g wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:13 PM
Keep it as is but make it to where it can't be used within 1500 units of another friendly stealth!!!!

OH WHAT A TWIST!

Or, only make it usable when there's a huge zerging within X unit range, which is almost every kill.

Or, leave it alone.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:34 PM by Riac
dirtyblade wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 12:08 PM
So, my RvR last night...

I fight 1... he vanishes... i get rolled... they get RP
I fight v 2... 1 vanishes... i get rolled... they get RP
I fight v 2... 1 vanishes... fg roll me... they get RP
I fight 1 and immediately vanishes... i get rolled by fg same realm

I fight 1 who almost dies but vanishes then 1 watching steps in and kills me... they get RP

Hense my frustration

So dont give all this crap about them not getting RP

Why aren't you vanishing? and if you chose not to get it so you can pump more into combat RAs which is your choice, but i dont think you should deny me of my choice because i didnt choose the same as you.

my personal favorite is when im winning a fight and the fg rolls up and heals them and then kills me.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:39 PM by dirtyblade
Why aren't you vanishing?

my personal favorite is when im winning a fight and the fg rolls up and heals them and then kills me.
[/quote]

Because I dont spec in it???
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:40 PM by Riac
dirtyblade wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:39 PM
Why aren't you vanishing?

my personal favorite is when im winning a fight and the fg rolls up and heals them and then kills me.

Because I dont spec in it???
[/quote]

which is your choice, you decided to pump combat stats. now you are wanting to limit my choices becuase i didnt choose the same as you.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:08 PM by inoeth
Riac wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:40 PM
dirtyblade wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:39 PM
Why aren't you vanishing?

my personal favorite is when im winning a fight and the fg rolls up and heals them and then kills me.

Because I dont spec in it???

which is your choice, you decided to pump combat stats. now you are wanting to limit my choices becuase i didnt choose the same as you.
[/quote]

Your choice is trolling ppl... Cool
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:14 PM by Riac
inoeth wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:08 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:40 PM
dirtyblade wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:39 PM
Why aren't you vanishing?

my personal favorite is when im winning a fight and the fg rolls up and heals them and then kills me.

Because I dont spec in it???

which is your choice, you decided to pump combat stats. now you are wanting to limit my choices becuase i didnt choose the same as you.

Your choice is trolling ppl... Cool
[/quote]

a valid point is now trolling.... cool
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:19 PM by inoeth
Riac wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:14 PM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:08 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:40 PM
Because I dont spec in it???

which is your choice, you decided to pump combat stats. now you are wanting to limit my choices becuase i didnt choose the same as you.

Your choice is trolling ppl... Cool

a valid point is now trolling.... cool
[/quote]

Vanish is for trolling only.... At least everyone is using it for teh lulz, really annoying.

My suggestion is to remove the speedbonus on vanish, just increase superstealth with vanish lvls, or make it a single lvl ra for 14 points like of vanish but also with disarm
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:23 PM by Riac
inoeth wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:19 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:14 PM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 9:08 PM
which is your choice, you decided to pump combat stats. now you are wanting to limit my choices becuase i didnt choose the same as you.

Your choice is trolling ppl... Cool

a valid point is now trolling.... cool

Vanish is for trolling only.... At least everyone is using it for teh lulz, really annoying.

My suggestion is to remove the speedbonus on vanish, just increase superstealth with vanish lvls, or make it a single lvl ra for 14 points like of vanish but also with disarm
[/quote]

vanish for trolling only..... bold statement.

generally when i vanish its to save my chars life and preserve the gold that i have invested in my charges/buffs that i have up. i cant really think of a situation where i vanished to troll. on top of that, vanish has to be used early to even have any use. if you wait till you are almost dead and can hardly move the speed bonus isnt even going to help. its only gives a movespeed bonus, unlike sos which sets your movespeed to a certain value (i believe thats how sos works, i may be incorrect)

what do you even mean vanish is used only to troll. can you give a situation where vanish is used to troll someone?
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:23 PM by Bumbles
phixion wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:41 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:01 PM
Vanish is terrible. I totally agree it needs to be on a 30 minute timer and cost WAY more RPs to get. Again you get to decide when and what you fight for the most part, so if you choose wrong you should't get a pass to try again.

You've obviously never played a stealther here, if you had, you'd know that opportunities to jump anyone are few and far between.

I love vanish, gets me away from those adding n00blets that like to ruin every fight. Vanish helps you get away from the zerg after winning a fight, it also lets you get away when you're losing a fight... every 15 minutes.

Nope I play a Solo visi toon. If I can get the jump on people and have a bunch of 1v1s (80% vs stealthers) I know how it goes. Again you have the option to attack someone, worried about the adding n00blets and the zerg means you are not picking your fights and just attacking people saying to yourself "It's okay I have vanish up". I've fought you a few times. Sometimes you kill me sometimes I kill you and sometimes you vanish. Try playing a solo visi toon and then talk to me about how annoying vanish is.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:25 PM by Riac
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:23 PM
phixion wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:41 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:01 PM
Vanish is terrible. I totally agree it needs to be on a 30 minute timer and cost WAY more RPs to get. Again you get to decide when and what you fight for the most part, so if you choose wrong you should't get a pass to try again.

You've obviously never played a stealther here, if you had, you'd know that opportunities to jump anyone are few and far between.

I love vanish, gets me away from those adding n00blets that like to ruin every fight. Vanish helps you get away from the zerg after winning a fight, it also lets you get away when you're losing a fight... every 15 minutes.

Nope I play a Solo visi toon. If I can get the jump on people and have a bunch of 1v1s (80% vs stealthers) I know how it goes. Again you have the option to attack someone, worried about the adding n00blets and the zerg means you are not picking your fights and just attacking people saying to yourself "It's okay I have vanish up". I've fought you a few times. Sometimes you kill me sometimes I kill you and sometimes you vanish. Try playing a solo visi toon and then talk to me about how annoying vanish is.

considering stealthers vanish vs other stealthers its not a situation that is unique to visi chars only. in a since you should be glad that we are wasting 5 of our realm skill points in a clickable with no combat value. makes a fight easier for you to win.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:29 PM by Bumbles
Riac wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:25 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:23 PM
phixion wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:41 PM
You've obviously never played a stealther here, if you had, you'd know that opportunities to jump anyone are few and far between.

I love vanish, gets me away from those adding n00blets that like to ruin every fight. Vanish helps you get away from the zerg after winning a fight, it also lets you get away when you're losing a fight... every 15 minutes.

Nope I play a Solo visi toon. If I can get the jump on people and have a bunch of 1v1s (80% vs stealthers) I know how it goes. Again you have the option to attack someone, worried about the adding n00blets and the zerg means you are not picking your fights and just attacking people saying to yourself "It's okay I have vanish up". I've fought you a few times. Sometimes you kill me sometimes I kill you and sometimes you vanish. Try playing a solo visi toon and then talk to me about how annoying vanish is.

considering stealthers vanish vs other stealthers its not a situation that is unique to visi chars only. in a since you should be glad that we are wasting 5 of our realm skill points in a clickable with no combat value. makes a fight easier for you to win.

When another stealther vanishes vs a stealther you should be able to find them 75% of the time so it's a little different...
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:48 PM by Riac
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:29 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:25 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:23 PM
Nope I play a Solo visi toon. If I can get the jump on people and have a bunch of 1v1s (80% vs stealthers) I know how it goes. Again you have the option to attack someone, worried about the adding n00blets and the zerg means you are not picking your fights and just attacking people saying to yourself "It's okay I have vanish up". I've fought you a few times. Sometimes you kill me sometimes I kill you and sometimes you vanish. Try playing a solo visi toon and then talk to me about how annoying vanish is.

considering stealthers vanish vs other stealthers its not a situation that is unique to visi chars only. in a since you should be glad that we are wasting 5 of our realm skill points in a clickable with no combat value. makes a fight easier for you to win.

When another stealther vanishes vs a stealther you should be able to find them 75% of the time so it's a little different...

lol def not the case. should be is not what is actually happening.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:26 PM by Tillbeast
Vanish is pretty much fine as it is. Maybe it would need looking at how it worked if they ever bring Mastery of Stealth back as a stand alone realm ability but as it is now is pretty fine.
Assassins are suppose to be hard hitting glass cannons that are tricky to hold down. In very quick, out even quicker. Even though I think assassins are ridiculously overpowered on phoenix vanish is not really an issue as the realm ability serves a purpose that is in line with its class role. Unfortunately the kill everything from heavy tank to clothe caster seems also been in the class's role.

Look on the bright side, assassins were not given blind grenades...aoe insta stun with a speed boost instead of vanish...although even with my hatred for assassins would had been fun lol.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:47 PM by Riac
Tillbeast wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:26 PM
Vanish is pretty much fine as it is. Maybe it would need looking at how it worked if they ever bring Mastery of Stealth back as a stand alone realm ability but as it is now is pretty fine.
Assassins are suppose to be hard hitting glass cannons that are tricky to hold down. In very quick, out even quicker. Even though I think assassins are ridiculously overpowered on phoenix vanish is not really an issue as the realm ability serves a purpose that is in line with its class role. Unfortunately the kill everything from heavy tank to clothe caster seems also been in the class's role.

Look on the bright side, assassins were not given blind grenades...aoe insta stun with a speed boost instead of vanish...although even with my hatred for assassins would had been fun lol.

i'd push back on this a bit, we certainly dont kill everything. most hybrids, light tanks, and tanks are very tough when equally RR and buffed. generally to pull off somthing like this you gotta do some cute shit like garrote poison/disease and run in a circle while it ticks then reapply poison again. the only time you really get to do this is late at night because of the amount of ppl always running around, and you better have purge up 9 times out of 10 you dont survive the slam. sure casters are fucked, but w/e.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 12:09 AM by Tillbeast
Riac wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:47 PM
Tillbeast wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:26 PM
Vanish is pretty much fine as it is. Maybe it would need looking at how it worked if they ever bring Mastery of Stealth back as a stand alone realm ability but as it is now is pretty fine.
Assassins are suppose to be hard hitting glass cannons that are tricky to hold down. In very quick, out even quicker. Even though I think assassins are ridiculously overpowered on phoenix vanish is not really an issue as the realm ability serves a purpose that is in line with its class role. Unfortunately the kill everything from heavy tank to clothe caster seems also been in the class's role.

Look on the bright side, assassins were not given blind grenades...aoe insta stun with a speed boost instead of vanish...although even with my hatred for assassins would had been fun lol.

i'd push back on this a bit, we certainly dont kill everything. most hybrids, light tanks, and tanks are very tough when equally RR and buffed. generally to pull off somthing like this you gotta do some cute shit like garrote poison/disease and run in a circle while it ticks then reapply poison again. the only time you really get to do this is late at night because of the amount of ppl always running around, and you better have purge up 9 times out of 10 you dont survive the slam. sure casters are fucked, but w/e.

In my opinion most (not all) light tanks, most (not all) hybrids and absolutely zero tanks should find an assassin a problem. Basically any melee in chain or similar armour is going to make quick works out of an assassin. A sorcerer should have as much chance of out meleeing a shadowblade as a shadowblade outmeleeing a mercenary or blademaster. Fair enough if the assassin has double the realm ranks then it may be possible but each class has its ideal targets. Assassins have a larger variety of targets than many other classes just I think they need to be bringing into control.

Sorry to stray of topic...the original opinions about vanish being fine stands.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 12:19 AM by phixion
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:23 PM
Nope I play a Solo visi toon. If I can get the jump on people and have a bunch of 1v1s (80% vs stealthers) I know how it goes. Again you have the option to attack someone, worried about the adding n00blets and the zerg means you are not picking your fights and just attacking people saying to yourself "It's okay I have vanish up". I've fought you a few times. Sometimes you kill me sometimes I kill you and sometimes you vanish. Try playing a solo visi toon and then talk to me about how annoying vanish is.

Not sure what your point is... I mean at times it's so zergy I think "fuck it" and I jump someone knowing I have vanish. Other times I'm in a 1on1 and a group/smallman/zerg or some other soloer adds and I vanish (hopefully after killing the guy I was on to begin with).

Considering how zergy this server is, it's very hard to find places to jump soloers. I prefer getting fights in random places and not getting zerged down, but it's hard to pick a single target out of a zerg.

Vanishing is a defensive move, it doesn't win you anything. It might be annoying for you when someone vanishes on you, but it is an active skill with a 15 minute timer, just know that it's put us in danger for the next 15 minutes of killing. And vanish is used against us just as much as it's used against visibles.

And no, the visible I do have was retired when Amnesia ruined the server. Until that issue is addressed I'll stick to stealthing

What is funny, is watching entire groups or zergs divert and run over to you when they see you fighting, having vanish ready with the obligatory /rofl is priceless.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:30 AM by djegu
They need to either increase the cool down OR the points required to have that RA.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:48 AM by Riac
Tillbeast wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 12:09 AM
Riac wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:47 PM
Tillbeast wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:26 PM
Vanish is pretty much fine as it is. Maybe it would need looking at how it worked if they ever bring Mastery of Stealth back as a stand alone realm ability but as it is now is pretty fine.
Assassins are suppose to be hard hitting glass cannons that are tricky to hold down. In very quick, out even quicker. Even though I think assassins are ridiculously overpowered on phoenix vanish is not really an issue as the realm ability serves a purpose that is in line with its class role. Unfortunately the kill everything from heavy tank to clothe caster seems also been in the class's role.

Look on the bright side, assassins were not given blind grenades...aoe insta stun with a speed boost instead of vanish...although even with my hatred for assassins would had been fun lol.

i'd push back on this a bit, we certainly dont kill everything. most hybrids, light tanks, and tanks are very tough when equally RR and buffed. generally to pull off somthing like this you gotta do some cute shit like garrote poison/disease and run in a circle while it ticks then reapply poison again. the only time you really get to do this is late at night because of the amount of ppl always running around, and you better have purge up 9 times out of 10 you dont survive the slam. sure casters are fucked, but w/e.

In my opinion most (not all) light tanks, most (not all) hybrids and absolutely zero tanks should find an assassin a problem. Basically any melee in chain or similar armour is going to make quick works out of an assassin. A sorcerer should have as much chance of out meleeing a shadowblade as a shadowblade outmeleeing a mercenary or blademaster. Fair enough if the assassin has double the realm ranks then it may be possible but each class has its ideal targets. Assassins have a larger variety of targets than many other classes just I think they need to be bringing into control.

Sorry to stray of topic...the original opinions about vanish being fine stands.

thats.... just like your opinion, man lol.... either way, even if the sin outplays the tank and kites him around he should still have zero chance? seems kinda shitty.
we arent out here outmeleing these classes unless they are lower rr. i'm not popping on tanks and shit the same RR as me, thats just asking for a badtime. even if i could "out melee" them it would take too long and someone would def be running up to add before that would happen.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 3:55 AM by ughsmash
phixion wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 12:19 AM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:23 PM
Nope I play a Solo visi toon. If I can get the jump on people and have a bunch of 1v1s (80% vs stealthers) I know how it goes. Again you have the option to attack someone, worried about the adding n00blets and the zerg means you are not picking your fights and just attacking people saying to yourself "It's okay I have vanish up". I've fought you a few times. Sometimes you kill me sometimes I kill you and sometimes you vanish. Try playing a solo visi toon and then talk to me about how annoying vanish is.

Not sure what your point is... I mean at times it's so zergy I think "fuck it" and I jump someone knowing I have vanish. Other times I'm in a 1on1 and a group/smallman/zerg or some other soloer adds and I vanish (hopefully after killing the guy I was on to begin with).

Considering how zergy this server is, it's very hard to find places to jump soloers. I prefer getting fights in random places and not getting zerged down, but it's hard to pick a single target out of a zerg.

Vanishing is a defensive move, it doesn't win you anything. It might be annoying for you when someone vanishes on you, but it is an active skill with a 15 minute timer, just know that it's put us in danger for the next 15 minutes of killing. And vanish is used against us just as much as it's used against visibles.

And no, the visible I do have was retired when Amnesia ruined the server. Until that issue is addressed I'll stick to stealthing

What is funny, is watching entire groups or zergs divert and run over to you when they see you fighting, having vanish ready with the obligatory /rofl is priceless.

The problem with your "But it is an active skill with a 15 minute timer" statement, is there is a lot of 15 minute timers. None of them are a near guaranteed escape.

The issue I have with vanish is simple. I run a Skald solo all the time. More than half the time when I fight an Assassin, they vanish when they start losing. Why is this a problem? The winner gets nothing. I win, I get zero rps. They are gone, I have zero chance of finding them...

At the core, the ability at least needs a nerf to how often it can be used. I would prefer it is gone, because the excuses of, but sometimes I get zerged, literally apply to every class that wants to solo in the game, but only Assassins can peace out for free.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 4:14 AM by Riac
ughsmash wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 3:55 AM
phixion wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 12:19 AM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:23 PM
Nope I play a Solo visi toon. If I can get the jump on people and have a bunch of 1v1s (80% vs stealthers) I know how it goes. Again you have the option to attack someone, worried about the adding n00blets and the zerg means you are not picking your fights and just attacking people saying to yourself "It's okay I have vanish up". I've fought you a few times. Sometimes you kill me sometimes I kill you and sometimes you vanish. Try playing a solo visi toon and then talk to me about how annoying vanish is.

Not sure what your point is... I mean at times it's so zergy I think "fuck it" and I jump someone knowing I have vanish. Other times I'm in a 1on1 and a group/smallman/zerg or some other soloer adds and I vanish (hopefully after killing the guy I was on to begin with).

Considering how zergy this server is, it's very hard to find places to jump soloers. I prefer getting fights in random places and not getting zerged down, but it's hard to pick a single target out of a zerg.

Vanishing is a defensive move, it doesn't win you anything. It might be annoying for you when someone vanishes on you, but it is an active skill with a 15 minute timer, just know that it's put us in danger for the next 15 minutes of killing. And vanish is used against us just as much as it's used against visibles.

And no, the visible I do have was retired when Amnesia ruined the server. Until that issue is addressed I'll stick to stealthing

What is funny, is watching entire groups or zergs divert and run over to you when they see you fighting, having vanish ready with the obligatory /rofl is priceless.

The problem with your "But it is an active skill with a 15 minute timer" statement, is there is a lot of 15 minute timers. None of them are a near guaranteed escape.

The issue I have with vanish is simple. I run a Skald solo all the time. More than half the time when I fight an Assassin, they vanish when they start losing. Why is this a problem? The winner gets nothing. I win, I get zero rps. They are gone, I have zero chance of finding them...

At the core, the ability at least needs a nerf to how often it can be used. I would prefer it is gone, because the excuses of, but sometimes I get zerged, literally apply to every class that wants to solo in the game, but only Assassins can peace out for free.

chances are they arent gonna pop on you w/o vanish becuase its a risky fight. you nerf it then you just nerfed yourself out of a fight.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 4:34 AM by ughsmash
If you are telling me I nerf myself out of a fight where if I win I get nothing for winning, but a 3 minute disease on me and no RPs... then sign me up.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 5:32 AM by jelzinga_EU
ughsmash wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 3:55 AM
The issue I have with vanish is simple. I run a Skald solo all the time. More than half the time when I fight an Assassin, they vanish when they start losing. Why is this a problem? The winner gets nothing. I win, I get zero rps. They are gone, I have zero chance of finding them...

The issue I have with SoS is simple. I run a speed-less class solo all the time. More than half the time when I fight an skald, they SoS when they start losing. Why is this a problem? The winner gets nothing. I win, I get zero rps. They are gone, I have zero chance of catching them...


On a more serious note: There are stealth-lore potions in game. You can use those to drastically increase your odds of finding them again.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 11:24 AM by jhaerik



^Need I say more?
Fri 22 Mar 2019 11:31 AM by relvinian
The other issue is of you snare some hunter they can pop their get of jail free speed song, or if it is running they cannot be snared.

That seems to be the case.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 12:31 PM by Rev
phixion wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:41 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:01 PM
Vanish is terrible. I totally agree it needs to be on a 30 minute timer and cost WAY more RPs to get. Again you get to decide when and what you fight for the most part, so if you choose wrong you should't get a pass to try again.

You've obviously never played a stealther here, if you had, you'd know that opportunities to jump anyone are few and far between.

I love vanish, gets me away from those adding n00blets that like to ruin every fight. Vanish helps you get away from the zerg after winning a fight, it also lets you get away when you're losing a fight... every 15 minutes.

farm greens and blues infront vor pks isnt a good fight, i see you many many times there
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:05 PM by phixion
Rev wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 12:31 PM
phixion wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:41 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:01 PM
Vanish is terrible. I totally agree it needs to be on a 30 minute timer and cost WAY more RPs to get. Again you get to decide when and what you fight for the most part, so if you choose wrong you should't get a pass to try again.

You've obviously never played a stealther here, if you had, you'd know that opportunities to jump anyone are few and far between.

I love vanish, gets me away from those adding n00blets that like to ruin every fight. Vanish helps you get away from the zerg after winning a fight, it also lets you get away when you're losing a fight... every 15 minutes.

farm greens and blues infront vor pks isnt a good fight, i see you many many times there

Red = dead, run out in to RvR expect to die. If you weren't aware, greens and blues show as yellow until they die, so I have no way to determine what level you are.

That goes for grays too. I've had enough of them adding on my fights.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 6:31 PM by dirtyblade
phixion wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:05 PM
Rev wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 12:31 PM
phixion wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:41 PM
You've obviously never played a stealther here, if you had, you'd know that opportunities to jump anyone are few and far between.

I love vanish, gets me away from those adding n00blets that like to ruin every fight. Vanish helps you get away from the zerg after winning a fight, it also lets you get away when you're losing a fight... every 15 minutes.

farm greens and blues infront vor pks isnt a good fight, i see you many many times there

Red = dead, run out in to RvR expect to die. If you weren't aware, greens and blues show as yellow until they die, so I have no way to determine what level you are.

That goes for grays too. I've had enough of them adding on my fights.

Rubbish, it dont take a genious to work out if they're lower than 50... you can tell by the armor alone... also if they're xp'ing, you only have to look at what mobs they're killing...
Fri 22 Mar 2019 6:38 PM by Riac
dirtyblade wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 6:31 PM
phixion wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:05 PM
Rev wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 12:31 PM
farm greens and blues infront vor pks isnt a good fight, i see you many many times there

Red = dead, run out in to RvR expect to die. If you weren't aware, greens and blues show as yellow until they die, so I have no way to determine what level you are.

That goes for grays too. I've had enough of them adding on my fights.

Rubbish, it dont take a genious to work out if they're lower than 50... you can tell by the armor alone... also if they're xp'ing, you only have to look at what mobs they're killing...

youre talking about assumptions, and assumptions are not always correct. (in regards to the armor, some ppl think its funny to run around in misdyed shit that looks rog)

obv if the dude is exping you know he isnt 50. that being said, im not above killing xpers, hell tons of ppl killed me in the frontiers while i was xping (midgard)

and as far as the greys go in rvr, fuck those dudes adding on shit and begging to be killed, keeping me in combat for much longer than i need to be. the fucked up part is i want to ignore them as to not reward them with xp and rps but they also can screw me over too. the incentive for them is a bit backwards in the sense that they want to die, no one else in rvr plays like they want to die so it creates a strange dynamic.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 6:48 PM by phixion
dirtyblade wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 6:31 PM
Rubbish, it dont take a genious to work out if they're lower than 50... you can tell by the armor alone... also if they're xp'ing, you only have to look at what mobs they're killing...

Genius?

You forgot the bit where I said I don't care what you con, I get added on by grays all the time and it ends up killing me at times.

But I'm explaining to the guy that just because he is green or blue doesn't matter, he will show as yellow. Even if I was averse to killing greens or blues (which I'm not) I wouldn't know til they're dead anyway. There's plenty of 50's running around in gimp gear.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 11:23 PM by Rexoo
Dream on --- Some one put his or he's head in the sand - When it comes to Assasins. Iss not only the Vanis. But Vanis, dot dps, normal stealth lvl , The PA, the damage table and the purge. That all togeter are soooooooo - stupid.
Sat 23 Mar 2019 12:05 AM by florin
I tried a few days with out vanish - got run over more times than I care for. My ratio would look as bad as Stranded at this rate. Now - with vanish, I can walk into a fg, 2 shot a caster and poof. You know what? I would still prefer old vanish and get 2 PA
Sat 23 Mar 2019 1:10 PM by phixion
florin wrote:
Sat 23 Mar 2019 12:05 AM
My ratio would look as bad as Stranded at this rate.

OHHH SHOTS FIRED!
Sat 23 Mar 2019 2:20 PM by Tenny
Vanish is fine imo. It’s there to bounce away from droolers and deny them low effort rps. Although always try to smack one of them with a snare poison before vanish if you can. 👻 🐻
Fri 29 Mar 2019 7:55 AM by Salviati
Tenny wrote:
Sat 23 Mar 2019 2:20 PM
Vanish is fine imo. It’s there to bounce away from droolers and deny them low effort rps. Although always try to smack one of them with a snare poison before vanish if you can. 👻 🐻

I don't think it gets more low effort here than playing an assassin. Playing a savage, perhaps. Let's be real, it doesn't require a bundle of intellectual fortitude or skill to succeed as an assassin on this server. Those who think so are deluding themselves. I only see a couple who think so.

1 of 3 things need to happen.
1. Vanish and viper need to be removed from the game.
2. Vanish needs to be tripled in price and tiered out an have its efficacy reduced. It should also not dispel any status effects or dots/bleeds. Assassins should have to pay dearly for such a luxury and not be able to use it lazily. They should have to check to make sure all stealth-popping effects are off them before they use it or get popped right back out (and yes, let them use it erringly).
3. Vanish and the assassin-class-specific RAs bare minimum need to be restored to their class-specific state. All assassins should definitely not be able to choose both Viper and Vanish. Neither is okay, though. They remove ALL of the finesse it required to play them. But restoring these skills put shadowblades at a tremendous disadvantage, so obviously not the right choice.

Also, MoS needs to be an RA again and Purge cost needs to be restored. Furthermore, put an immunity timer for poison status effects and reduce disease duration significantly. There's no reason it should last 2 minutes or whatever it is now.

Do these things an assassins will be about where they should be. 75% will disappear overnight, and that's fine. The barrier to entry to such a class should be high. Stealther wars should be balanced around stealthers, and not the realms at large. They should not be killing anything they see anytime they wish with impunity and zero danger. Remove these cheesy RAs and stealthers can still play their games and put back in their place.

In any case, they need fixed. Nobody is denying these abilities are terrible crutches.

Also, nerf minstrels. They're the only class in the game that never has to worry about dying under any circumstances unless they make a long series of stupid mistakes.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:30 PM by Sido
Adding a condition like having killed someone (or being involved in a kill) in the previous 30s/1min to allow the use of vanish would solve most of your concerns and matches with the assassin background : still situational, still usable for the one who got the upper hand in a fight to escape from adds, not a free "try again later" or "get rolled by my mates" for trolling ppl. It supports and rewards risk-taking, toning down the meatshield-for-my-friends-role also.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:51 PM by Dominus
Sins are jumping plate and scale wearing tanks because they know "what the heck, if this doesn't go well, I'll just vanish..." leaving the tank with 3 mins of disease to deal with while the Sin waits for a realistic target (until vanish is back up)

way to OP an ability for 5 pts imo.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 7:50 PM by phixion
Dominus wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:51 PM
Sins are jumping plate and scale wearing tanks because they know "what the heck, if this doesn't go well, I'll just vanish..." leaving the tank with 3 mins of disease to deal with while the Sin waits for a realistic target (until vanish is back up)

way to OP an ability for 5 pts imo.

Vanish has nothing to do with disease timer.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:33 PM by Sharky04
I have a fair suggestion. Make Vanish only one level for 10 points. Reuse timer 30 minutes. It would be situational, instead of being usable in every fight. This will add a risk factor to playing melee stealthers and make the game more enjoyable.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 2:49 PM by Dominus
phixion wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 7:50 PM
Dominus wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:51 PM
Sins are jumping plate and scale wearing tanks because they know "what the heck, if this doesn't go well, I'll just vanish..." leaving the tank with 3 mins of disease to deal with while the Sin waits for a realistic target (until vanish is back up)

way to OP an ability for 5 pts imo.

Vanish has nothing to do with disease timer.

you missed the point. Sins jumping tanks shouldn't be happening and wouldn't if vanish wasn't around. Vanish is a get out of jail free card for bad players.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 3:36 PM by phixion
Dominus wrote:
Sat 30 Mar 2019 2:49 PM
you missed the point. Sins jumping tanks shouldn't be happening and wouldn't if vanish wasn't around. Vanish is a get out of jail free card for bad players.

No, you pretty much conflated disease and vanish hand in hand. Single target disease lasts 5 minutes from a Cabby and I had to deal with that yesterday.

Also, assassins have always jumped tanks... I know I've played em.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 5:02 PM by Tillbeast
Assassins have a lot of issues but vanish is not one of them. It does exactly as what it should do, its there escape tool. Assassins have no ranged attacks so they need to be up close and personal to be effective. Once there initial surprise and high dps off load has disappeared they are sicking ducks for nearby ranged classes and heavily armoured melees. They need to be able to kill there target then be gone. Hunters and rangers have a speed burst but they attack from range and those that choose melee spec have to accept they don't have the ways to escape the area is easily as an assassin, they have a speed burst but it is easily broken with enemy spells. Vanish also has the secondary benefit of escaping a zerg either a visible or a stealth one.

SOS is far more broken than vanish as an escape tool as it helps full groups escape plus its usual benefits but because it benefits visibles it is far more easily tolerated.
Stealthers getting the drop on heavy armour users and vanishing is not an issue with vanish its the other issues assassins have with the stupid amount of high dps benefits they have been given. If there dps was controlled better you would still get assassins jumping heavy armour to try snag them with a disease effect and then vanishing so they are easier to keep up when there backup arrives, its an old tactic for stealth groups to kill straggling heavy tanks. Prob is assassins dps has been boosted so much assassins can one on one a fight with a heavy tank with at least 50% chance of winning.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 10:33 PM by cuuchulain79
IMO Uth2 saw a lot of assassins waiting out 30 minute purge before they reinvested a round of 10 minute buffs to fight again...so ofc now it's the same story, but with more expensive buffs, and shorter cool downs for their RAs.

The whole buffing situation really produces an environment of only playing when all toys are up...especially on a class that can just go hide.

The irony is...a classic setting seems attractive for a simple game, without all the annoying abilities that came later...but here we are with the most annoying assassins to have ever existed in DAoC all leaning on vanish as much as archers did Zephyr.

IMO the fun of solo/small-man is still locked away in time...guarded on Phoenix by the trinity of custom lame changes:

10 min micromanaging expensive buffs
Custom amnesia mechanics
Custom assassin settings guaranteeing most sins that show up to a fight, will vanish

And the secret boss level to unlock solo & small man fun again:
Spee...I won't even finish typing it...this has basically turned into 'He who must not be named' on Phoenix
Sat 30 Mar 2019 11:38 PM by Emeryc
cuuchulain79 wrote:
Sat 30 Mar 2019 10:33 PM
The whole buffing situation really produces an environment of only playing when all toys are up...especially on a class that can just go hide.

The irony is...a classic setting seems attractive for a simple game, without all the annoying abilities that came later...but here we are with the most annoying assassins to have ever existed in DAoC all leaning on vanish as much as archers did Zephyr.


Totally agree. Buff pots and charges, short timers and low costs on all these abilities makes the game more complicated but less complex.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 12:44 AM by Smufr
I'm fairly certain most assassins use vanish as a way to escape after killing someone. The only time I use it is after a fight when I'm about to get rolled. 1v1 vanishing seems to really be an outlier. Definitely not enough to warrant changing the ability or significantly increasing the cost.

I run into more issues during the 'super stealth' period than anything. It seems like half the time I use it I am hit by something before anyone has time to actually target me again. It's happened several times with minstrel stuns, slams, perfs, backstabs, etc. where I am left stunned (while stealthed) with the inability to purge (silenced). I assume most of this is due to server lag, but it can be very frustrating. It also takes several seconds to 'purge' any DoTs/bleeds.

For every 'perk' that people complain about, there is a downside that can potentially end up getting the user killed just as well. I don't think it needs to be nerfed in any way.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 2:01 AM by dbeattie71
Please let them keep it, the lower RR sneaks that gimp their toons by spending points in vanish are a treat. Plus it’s an extra treat when you find a vanisher and get to club them to death disarmed.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 3:29 PM by Horus
Smufr wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 12:44 AM
I'm fairly certain most assassins use vanish as a way to escape after killing someone. The only time I use it is after a fight when I'm about to get rolled. 1v1 vanishing seems to really be an outlier. Definitely not enough to warrant changing the ability or significantly increasing the cost.

I run into more issues during the 'super stealth' period than anything. It seems like half the time I use it I am hit by something before anyone has time to actually target me again. It's happened several times with minstrel stuns, slams, perfs, backstabs, etc. where I am left stunned (while stealthed) with the inability to purge (silenced). I assume most of this is due to server lag, but it can be very frustrating. It also takes several seconds to 'purge' any DoTs/bleeds.

For every 'perk' that people complain about, there is a downside that can potentially end up getting the user killed just as well. I don't think it needs to be nerfed in any way.

I dunno, every time I see it in action it is the following scenarios..

'Sin running unstealthed, I pop a couple arrows in them at range..vanish
Fight going poorly...vanish
Attacking a weaker opponent, realm mate comes to help..vanish
Pop on a caster in the middle of a crowd,,,vanish

Just must be nice to be able to play solo with zero risk. Something no other toon can do.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 3:54 PM by Dariussdars
Horus wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 3:29 PM
Smufr wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 12:44 AM
I'm fairly certain most assassins use vanish as a way to escape after killing someone. The only time I use it is after a fight when I'm about to get rolled. 1v1 vanishing seems to really be an outlier. Definitely not enough to warrant changing the ability or significantly increasing the cost.

I run into more issues during the 'super stealth' period than anything. It seems like half the time I use it I am hit by something before anyone has time to actually target me again. It's happened several times with minstrel stuns, slams, perfs, backstabs, etc. where I am left stunned (while stealthed) with the inability to purge (silenced). I assume most of this is due to server lag, but it can be very frustrating. It also takes several seconds to 'purge' any DoTs/bleeds.

For every 'perk' that people complain about, there is a downside that can potentially end up getting the user killed just as well. I don't think it needs to be nerfed in any way.

I dunno, every time I see it in action it is the following scenarios..

'Sin running unstealthed, I pop a couple arrows in them at range..vanish
Fight going poorly...vanish
Attacking a weaker opponent, realm mate comes to help..vanish
Pop on a caster in the middle of a crowd,,,vanish

Just must be nice to be able to play solo with zero risk. Something no other toon can do.

Came up on two assasins bravely duoing down a fellow Mid. They finish off the Mid, I attack, the one I attack vanishes in a 2 on 1. Almost as laughable when a Minstrel/infil duo SoS's away in a 2 on 1.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:19 AM by qq6
Vanishhhhhhhhhh, its a great mechanic for sins, but its very very annoying to play against in its current state. Whenever i start on sins first they tend to vanish with no1 else in sight, be it just standing on a hill and shooting at one or purely jumping one in melee, it gets so frustrating sometimes, cos its such a major loss to my rp farm, but, what can you do. In a way am happy its a point sink, makes them a bit weaker, on the other hand, i would much rather prefer to actually end the fights i have with a kill or be killed. Just to give you some idea of what my fight stats are, i think i engage sins around 30%of my total kills, out of those sins i fight, i get vanished on about 80% of the time and its mostly a 1v1.

A balance mechanic i'd love to have is something along the lines of, if an ass vanishes, let his dots/debuffs clear on the other person. Having a ~2 min dis after 1 hit and vanish, is just sad.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:23 PM by Bobbahunter
Or when the fight is so close that the Assassin vanishes with just a few HPs left but you still die to because of Dots. have all his Disease/Dots vanish with him.

Or what about the 2 to 3 that will rotate vanish so one opens up gets you to half health or less, friendlies come to help and he vanishes with you low on health, Friendlies move on, Next one in his group kills you with no problems and can slip away because you were diseased and health never replenished.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:51 AM by Sepplord
Bobbahunter wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:23 PM
Or when the fight is so close that the Assassin vanishes with just a few HPs left but you still die to because of Dots. have all his Disease/Dots vanish with him.

Or what about the 2 to 3 that will rotate vanish so one opens up gets you to half health or less, friendlies come to help and he vanishes with you low on health, Friendlies move on, Next one in his group kills you with no problems and can slip away because you were diseased and health never replenished.

if each get's you to 50% individually, then them attacking you together would bring you to 0% before the first has to vanish.
I fail to see how that strategy plays out to be superior, and not happened as coincidence.

Rotating vanish as stealthzerg and letting only people with vansih ready open up sounds really annoying though, i agree
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:09 AM by inoeth
today again multiple fights where enemys vanished as soon as i hit ip with my hunter.....

man thats sucks so hard, on live servers vanish was only usefull vs. non stealth classes because of mos!
vanish is so much stronger and annoying here because there is no mos.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:27 PM by Peister
Put vanish on 30min!
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:18 PM by jelzinga_EU
Peister wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:27 PM
Put vanish on 30min!

Why ? No other RA is 30 mins as far as I know and Vanish isn't exactly I-Win, but "I-dont-lose".

You play an assassin (as do I). We do not have any other defensive ability besides speccing Vanish. I do not think nerfing the CD will stop the QQ'ing about Vanish, it will just happen (50%) less but people will still complain.

Yes, people use it in 1vs1 and that might be "lame". But how about bonedancers, necromancers, dirty tricks and what not. Gonna nerf that too? SoS ? BOF ? Purge ? Slam?

Seriously, people need to man up :-)
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:04 PM by Dariussdars
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:18 PM
Peister wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:27 PM
Put vanish on 30min!

Why ? No other RA is 30 mins as far as I know and Vanish isn't exactly I-Win, but "I-dont-lose".

You play an assassin (as do I). We do not have any other defensive ability besides speccing Vanish. I do not think nerfing the CD will stop the QQ'ing about Vanish, it will just happen (50%) less but people will still complain.

Yes, people use it in 1vs1 and that might be "lame". But how about bonedancers, necromancers, dirty tricks and what not. Gonna nerf that too? SoS ? BOF ? Purge ? Slam?

Seriously, people need to man up :-)

So 50 composite stealth isn't a defensive ability?
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:10 PM by Riac
Dariussdars wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:04 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:18 PM
Peister wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:27 PM
Put vanish on 30min!

Why ? No other RA is 30 mins as far as I know and Vanish isn't exactly I-Win, but "I-dont-lose".

You play an assassin (as do I). We do not have any other defensive ability besides speccing Vanish. I do not think nerfing the CD will stop the QQ'ing about Vanish, it will just happen (50%) less but people will still complain.

Yes, people use it in 1vs1 and that might be "lame". But how about bonedancers, necromancers, dirty tricks and what not. Gonna nerf that too? SoS ? BOF ? Purge ? Slam?

Seriously, people need to man up :-)

So 50 composite stealth isn't a defensive ability?

I'd say that's more of a class trait and not the same thing.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:04 PM by Dariussdars
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:10 PM
Dariussdars wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:04 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:18 PM
Why ? No other RA is 30 mins as far as I know and Vanish isn't exactly I-Win, but "I-dont-lose".

You play an assassin (as do I). We do not have any other defensive ability besides speccing Vanish. I do not think nerfing the CD will stop the QQ'ing about Vanish, it will just happen (50%) less but people will still complain.

Yes, people use it in 1vs1 and that might be "lame". But how about bonedancers, necromancers, dirty tricks and what not. Gonna nerf that too? SoS ? BOF ? Purge ? Slam?

Seriously, people need to man up :-)

So 50 composite stealth isn't a defensive ability?

I'd say that's more of a class trait and not the same thing.

It gives them defense against visibles seeing them, which is a lot better than a root, bladeturn, shield, that visis get.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:18 PM by Riac
Dariussdars wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:04 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:10 PM
Dariussdars wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:04 PM
So 50 composite stealth isn't a defensive ability?

I'd say that's more of a class trait and not the same thing.

It gives them defense against visibles seeing them, which is a lot better than a root, bladeturn, shield, that visis get.

Considering how good stealth lore pots are I don't think vanish is as good as it once was. Spend that gold and you have a good counter to your problem.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:33 PM by Dariussdars
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:18 PM
Dariussdars wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:04 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:10 PM
I'd say that's more of a class trait and not the same thing.

It gives them defense against visibles seeing them, which is a lot better than a root, bladeturn, shield, that visis get.

Considering how good stealth lore pots are I don't think vanish is as good as it once was. Spend that gold and you have a good counter to your problem.

Stupid question, how do you get Phoenix Claws? Googled it, nothing popped up.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:39 PM by Riac
Dariussdars wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:33 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:18 PM
Dariussdars wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:04 PM
It gives them defense against visibles seeing them, which is a lot better than a root, bladeturn, shield, that visis get.

Considering how good stealth lore pots are I don't think vanish is as good as it once was. Spend that gold and you have a good counter to your problem.

Stupid question, how do you get Phoenix Claws? Googled it, nothing popped up.

Buy them or help kill those supply caravan things, might get some for keep takes idk
Sat 6 Apr 2019 12:13 AM by dbeattie71
Don’t mind vanish anymore, loaded up on SL pots 😀
Sat 6 Apr 2019 12:40 AM by Fooj Fujiyama
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:18 PM
Peister wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:27 PM
Put vanish on 30min!

Why ? No other RA is 30 mins as far as I know and Vanish isn't exactly I-Win, but "I-dont-lose".

You play an assassin (as do I). We do not have any other defensive ability besides speccing Vanish. I do not think nerfing the CD will stop the QQ'ing about Vanish, it will just happen (50%) less but people will still complain.

Yes, people use it in 1vs1 and that might be "lame". But how about bonedancers, necromancers, dirty tricks and what not. Gonna nerf that too? SoS ? BOF ? Purge ? Slam?

Seriously, people need to man up :-)

Vanish IS an I win button, it lets you get a free kill and a free escape so that you can kill someone else 2 minutes later without any real repercussion. I aboslutely agree it should be on a 30 minute timer.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 1:04 AM by Riac
Fooj Fujiyama wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 12:40 AM
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:18 PM
Peister wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:27 PM
Put vanish on 30min!

Why ? No other RA is 30 mins as far as I know and Vanish isn't exactly I-Win, but "I-dont-lose".

You play an assassin (as do I). We do not have any other defensive ability besides speccing Vanish. I do not think nerfing the CD will stop the QQ'ing about Vanish, it will just happen (50%) less but people will still complain.

Yes, people use it in 1vs1 and that might be "lame". But how about bonedancers, necromancers, dirty tricks and what not. Gonna nerf that too? SoS ? BOF ? Purge ? Slam?

Seriously, people need to man up :-)

Vanish IS an I win button, it lets you get a free kill and a free escape so that you can kill someone else 2 minutes later without any real repercussion. I aboslutely agree it should be on a 30 minute timer.

i feel like thats a very unorthodox definition of an i win button.... more like an i live button, but as the guy above pointed out, its hardly even that w/ the current state of stealth lore pots.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:35 AM by phixion
Fooj Fujiyama wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 12:40 AM
Vanish IS an I win button, it lets you get a free kill and a free escape so that you can kill someone else 2 minutes later without any real repercussion. I aboslutely agree it should be on a 30 minute timer.

But you also want a RR reset...
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:42 AM by Sindralor
How about we get rid of Vanish and also Ignore Pain? Fair trade no?
Wait what is that? People don't want to lose IP? its too good? weird
Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:32 AM by jelzinga_EU
Fooj Fujiyama wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 12:40 AM
Vanish IS an I win button, it lets you get a free kill and a free escape so that you can kill someone else 2 minutes later without any real repercussion. I aboslutely agree it should be on a 30 minute timer.

Just trying to understand your point.

How is Vanish giving me "a free kill" ? It doesn't do damage, grants no RP and it disarms and silences me for 30 seconds once I use it. Then to top it off it also allows me to kill another person 2 minutes later without any real repercussion?

My Vanish is broken then - all it does for me is give me a reasonable chance to get away (not guaranteed) while the person I was hitting is getting insta-healed often so I end up without any RP's, an eager zerg is trying to find me while I'm disarmed and silenced for the next 30 seconds of it.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:16 AM by Clartiex
Sindralor wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:42 AM
How about we get rid of Vanish and also Ignore Pain? Fair trade no?
Wait what is that? People don't want to lose IP?


But throw SOS in their too. Everytime I Perf a minstrel and then creeping death. Then purge and sos.. so I dont see the difference between vanish and SOS really. I dont mind either or. Just saying why nerd one RA skill, when the other is a get away (sometimes) for speed classes. I love my vanish tho.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:21 AM by AngelRose
Vanish is OP on this server only because of how gimp the stealth detection is for archers.

Devs seem to hate archers. Took away the good ra's from OF, and gimped the good ra's from NF. Give sins ez wins. MOS is nothing but added speed. wtf
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:32 AM by TsunamiSurprise
It's a bit strange. I'm out in RvR- I see a NS fighting a Hunter. He kills the hunter and I cast 3 ice pets. He vanishes- the ice pets did 100 damage and 36% power loss from me.

Then I'm perfed and taking a dirtnap.

Dunno, doesn't feel right.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:51 AM by Riac
TsunamiSurprise wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:32 AM
It's a bit strange. I'm out in RvR- I see a NS fighting a Hunter. He kills the hunter and I cast 3 ice pets. He vanishes- the ice pets did 100 damage and 36% power loss from me.

Then I'm perfed and taking a dirtnap.

Dunno, doesn't feel right.

there is a time gap there or you were perfed by a different sin..... there is also a bug with vanish and ice pets/necro pets atm too, if you vanish while the necro or ice pet is mid cast it will stil lhit you and bring you out of stealth.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:11 AM by kvothe
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:51 AM
TsunamiSurprise wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:32 AM
It's a bit strange. I'm out in RvR- I see a NS fighting a Hunter. He kills the hunter and I cast 3 ice pets. He vanishes- the ice pets did 100 damage and 36% power loss from me.

Then I'm perfed and taking a dirtnap.

Dunno, doesn't feel right.

there is a time gap there or you were perfed by a different sin..... there is also a bug with vanish and ice pets/necro pets atm too, if you vanish while the necro or ice pet is mid cast it will stil lhit you and bring you out of stealth.
This forum is full of fake news, just like the whole internet. 2018 no one cares about facts anymore, 2019 fake news is the truth. Internet needs a restart with limited access.
Pets dont kick you out of vanish anymore you will stay stealthed even if they nuke you if you vanish too late.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:19 AM by Riac
kvothe wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:11 AM
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:51 AM
TsunamiSurprise wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:32 AM
It's a bit strange. I'm out in RvR- I see a NS fighting a Hunter. He kills the hunter and I cast 3 ice pets. He vanishes- the ice pets did 100 damage and 36% power loss from me.

Then I'm perfed and taking a dirtnap.

Dunno, doesn't feel right.

there is a time gap there or you were perfed by a different sin..... there is also a bug with vanish and ice pets/necro pets atm too, if you vanish while the necro or ice pet is mid cast it will stil lhit you and bring you out of stealth.
This forum is full of fake news, just like the whole internet. 2018 no one cares about facts anymore, 2019 fake news is the truth. Internet needs a restart with limited access.
Pets dont kick you out of vanish anymore you will stay stealthed even if they nuke you if you vanish too late.

lol you obv dont play a non alb stealther atm, this happened to my RL friend 3 days ago. it was quite lmao for me watching it happen from stealth. a necro casted on him from max range as he was trying to restealth outside of apk emain and it broke him from stealth 3 seperate times and eventually he blew vanish to stop it from happen only to kill him. it certainly happens on this server. the only "fake news" here is you saying it doesnt happen.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:22 AM by kvothe
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:19 AM
kvothe wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:11 AM
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:51 AM
there is a time gap there or you were perfed by a different sin..... there is also a bug with vanish and ice pets/necro pets atm too, if you vanish while the necro or ice pet is mid cast it will stil lhit you and bring you out of stealth.
This forum is full of fake news, just like the whole internet. 2018 no one cares about facts anymore, 2019 fake news is the truth. Internet needs a restart with limited access.
Pets dont kick you out of vanish anymore you will stay stealthed even if they nuke you if you vanish too late.

lol you obv dont play a non alb stealther atm, this happened to my RL friend 3 days ago. it was quite lmao for me watching it happen from stealth. a necro casted on him from max range as he was trying to restealth outside of apk emain and it broke him from stealth 3 seperate times and eventually he blew vanish to stop it from happen only to kill him. it certainly happens on this server. the only "fake news" here is you saying it doesnt happen.
Ah ok now it's a friend, next time someone told you etc ^^
Yes damage will get them out of normal stealth as intended.
If they use vanish damage won't pop them out of stealth.
So your new story is he stealthed and got destealthed, did this 3 times and got killed by the final nuke after vanish. That's a different story and doesnt prove your claim that pets can nuke you out of vanish to destealth someone. It's fake news.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:23 AM by Riac
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:19 AM
kvothe wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:11 AM
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:51 AM
there is a time gap there or you were perfed by a different sin..... there is also a bug with vanish and ice pets/necro pets atm too, if you vanish while the necro or ice pet is mid cast it will stil lhit you and bring you out of stealth.
This forum is full of fake news, just like the whole internet. 2018 no one cares about facts anymore, 2019 fake news is the truth. Internet needs a restart with limited access.
Pets dont kick you out of vanish anymore you will stay stealthed even if they nuke you if you vanish too late.

lol you obv dont play a non alb stealther atm, this happened to my RL friend 3 days ago. it was quite lmao for me watching it happen from stealth. a necro casted on him from max range as he was trying to restealth outside of apk emain and it broke him from stealth 3 seperate times and eventually he blew vanish to stop it from happen only to kill him. it certainly happens on this server. the only "fake news" here is you saying it doesnt happen.
i actually described it wrong it the original post, its not limited to vanish with necros, if a necro begins casting on you and you stealth before the cast is complete it will still hit you. this is as of 3 days ago, it hasnt happened to me since then, but i havent really fucked with necros since then either. i generally give them a free pass to do as they pls, for obvious reasons.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:26 AM by Riac
kvothe wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:22 AM
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:19 AM
kvothe wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:11 AM
This forum is full of fake news, just like the whole internet. 2018 no one cares about facts anymore, 2019 fake news is the truth. Internet needs a restart with limited access.
Pets dont kick you out of vanish anymore you will stay stealthed even if they nuke you if you vanish too late.

lol you obv dont play a non alb stealther atm, this happened to my RL friend 3 days ago. it was quite lmao for me watching it happen from stealth. a necro casted on him from max range as he was trying to restealth outside of apk emain and it broke him from stealth 3 seperate times and eventually he blew vanish to stop it from happen only to kill him. it certainly happens on this server. the only "fake news" here is you saying it doesnt happen.
Ah ok now it's a friend, next time someone told you etc ^^
Yes damage will get them out of normal stealth as intended.
If they use vanish damage won't pop them out of stealth.
So your new story is he stealthed and got destealthed, did this 3 times and got killed by the final nuke after vanish. That's a different story and doesnt prove your claim that pets can nuke you out of vanish to destealth someone. It's fake news.

yea it was my friend, i was watching from afar in stealth while we were in disc. its happens to me aswell, just not to the extent that it happened to him in this specific occasion, 3 times in a row is quite the event. this is a real bug, it happens all the time. if you dont believe me engage a necro at max range and bait him into casting on you then stealth, and i bet it kicks you out of stealth 100%.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:29 AM by kvothe
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:26 AM
kvothe wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:22 AM
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:19 AM
lol you obv dont play a non alb stealther atm, this happened to my RL friend 3 days ago. it was quite lmao for me watching it happen from stealth. a necro casted on him from max range as he was trying to restealth outside of apk emain and it broke him from stealth 3 seperate times and eventually he blew vanish to stop it from happen only to kill him. it certainly happens on this server. the only "fake news" here is you saying it doesnt happen.
Ah ok now it's a friend, next time someone told you etc ^^
Yes damage will get them out of normal stealth as intended.
If they use vanish damage won't pop them out of stealth.
So your new story is he stealthed and got destealthed, did this 3 times and got killed by the final nuke after vanish. That's a different story and doesnt prove your claim that pets can nuke you out of vanish to destealth someone. It's fake news.

yea it was my friend, i was watching from afar in stealth while we were in disc. its happens to me aswell, just not to the extent that it happened to him in this specific occasion, 3 times in a row is quite the event. this is a real bug, it happens all the time. if you dont believe me engage a necro at max range and bait him into casting on you then stealth, and i bet it kicks you out of stealth 100%.
Ok so you are an expert in fake news.
You simple change the topic and talk about something else nice ( vanish before normal stealth now)
As I wrote before I repeat:

If you stealth any damage will hit you out of stealth - thats what you describe now and that's absolutely working as intended.

Two posts before you were talking about vanish and as I told you damage won't get you destealthed which is also working as intended.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:33 AM by Riac
kvothe wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:29 AM
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:26 AM
kvothe wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:22 AM
Ah ok now it's a friend, next time someone told you etc ^^
Yes damage will get them out of normal stealth as intended.
If they use vanish damage won't pop them out of stealth.
So your new story is he stealthed and got destealthed, did this 3 times and got killed by the final nuke after vanish. That's a different story and doesnt prove your claim that pets can nuke you out of vanish to destealth someone. It's fake news.

yea it was my friend, i was watching from afar in stealth while we were in disc. its happens to me aswell, just not to the extent that it happened to him in this specific occasion, 3 times in a row is quite the event. this is a real bug, it happens all the time. if you dont believe me engage a necro at max range and bait him into casting on you then stealth, and i bet it kicks you out of stealth 100%.
Ok so you are an expert in fake news.
You simple change the topic and talk about something else nice ( vanish before normal stealth now)
As I wrote before I repeat:

If you stealth any damage will hit you out of stealth - thats what you describe now and that's absolutely working as intended.

Two posts before you were talking about vanish and as I told you damage won't get you destealthed which is also working as intended.

you tard lol.... it knocked him out of stealth 3 times, then he vanished and the fourth cast killed him all the same. read the post.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:47 AM by kvothe
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:33 AM
kvothe wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:29 AM
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 8:26 AM
yea it was my friend, i was watching from afar in stealth while we were in disc. its happens to me aswell, just not to the extent that it happened to him in this specific occasion, 3 times in a row is quite the event. this is a real bug, it happens all the time. if you dont believe me engage a necro at max range and bait him into casting on you then stealth, and i bet it kicks you out of stealth 100%.
Ok so you are an expert in fake news.
You simple change the topic and talk about something else nice ( vanish before normal stealth now)
As I wrote before I repeat:

If you stealth any damage will hit you out of stealth - thats what you describe now and that's absolutely working as intended.

Two posts before you were talking about vanish and as I told you damage won't get you destealthed which is also working as intended.

you tard lol.... it knocked him out of stealth 3 times, then he vanished and the fourth cast killed him all the same. read the post.
So you tell me you were talking about this from the very beginning?
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:51 AM
there is also a bug with vanish and ice pets/necro pets atm too, if you vanish while the necro or ice pet is mid cast it will stil lhit you and bring you out of stealth.
You told us from the beginng that by
"if you vanish while the necro or ice pet is mid cast it will stil lhit you and bring you out of stealth."
you meant:
"if you vanish while the necro or ice pet is mid cast it will stil lhit you and bring you out of stealth by killing you and else you will stay stealthed".
Sat 6 Apr 2019 9:41 AM by qq6
pretty sure gms confirmed it, necro pets mid cast do bring you out of stealth (if u happen to stealth during that cast, cos necro pets check for stealth before cast begins), happens sometimes, did happen to me a few times, but nothing to cry about.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:02 PM by Clartiex
AngelRose wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:21 AM
Vanish is OP on this server only because of how gimp the stealth detection is for archers.

Devs seem to hate archers. Took away the good ra's from OF, and gimped the good ra's from NF. Give sins ez wins. MOS is nothing but added speed. wtf

Buy stealth lore pots. pretty simple. They last a minute and have 5 charges.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 9:45 PM by ughsmash
I have always hated vanish. When I run around solo on my Skald, more than half of the fights I get into with an Assassin end in them vanishing and they jump me. So the argument of it only getting used when people are outnumbered is out the window.

An ability designed to give the winner of a fight zero RPs is super frustrating for the winner.

On the other side, I recently made a Shadowblade Ughly, and I love using it, so I am seeing that it is an ability that is fun to use, but an absolute pain to play against.

I would be OK if it had an increased cooldown.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 10:05 PM by dbeattie71
Clartiex wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:02 PM
AngelRose wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:21 AM
Vanish is OP on this server only because of how gimp the stealth detection is for archers.

Devs seem to hate archers. Took away the good ra's from OF, and gimped the good ra's from NF. Give sins ez wins. MOS is nothing but added speed. wtf

Buy stealth lore pots. pretty simple. They last a minute and have 5 charges.

This.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:35 AM by Dariussdars
Clartiex wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:02 PM
AngelRose wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:21 AM
Vanish is OP on this server only because of how gimp the stealth detection is for archers.

Devs seem to hate archers. Took away the good ra's from OF, and gimped the good ra's from NF. Give sins ez wins. MOS is nothing but added speed. wtf

Buy stealth lore pots. pretty simple. They last a minute and have 5 charges.

Yeah, buy something that costs more than a plat that has 5 charges. Great idea.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:43 AM by AngelRose
Dariussdars wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:35 AM
Clartiex wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:02 PM
AngelRose wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:21 AM
Vanish is OP on this server only because of how gimp the stealth detection is for archers.

Devs seem to hate archers. Took away the good ra's from OF, and gimped the good ra's from NF. Give sins ez wins. MOS is nothing but added speed. wtf

Buy stealth lore pots. pretty simple. They last a minute and have 5 charges.

Yeah, buy something that costs more than a plat that has 5 charges. Great idea.

I am already having to farm for plat just to keep up with charges and pots. Crappy blue buff pots, at that. How about a fix where archers are not free rps for sins?
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:55 AM by dbeattie71
Dariussdars wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:35 AM
Clartiex wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:02 PM
AngelRose wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:21 AM
Vanish is OP on this server only because of how gimp the stealth detection is for archers.

Devs seem to hate archers. Took away the good ra's from OF, and gimped the good ra's from NF. Give sins ez wins. MOS is nothing but added speed. wtf

Buy stealth lore pots. pretty simple. They last a minute and have 5 charges.

Yeah, buy something that costs more than a plat that has 5 charges. Great idea.

I bought a bunch for way less than a plat but a play isn’t much so I’d probably still but them. It’s worth to pop one after you’ve won a fight and the loser vanished.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:57 AM by Clartiex
Dariussdars wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:35 AM
Clartiex wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:02 PM
AngelRose wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:21 AM
Vanish is OP on this server only because of how gimp the stealth detection is for archers.

Devs seem to hate archers. Took away the good ra's from OF, and gimped the good ra's from NF. Give sins ez wins. MOS is nothing but added speed. wtf

Buy stealth lore pots. pretty simple. They last a minute and have 5 charges.

Yeah, buy something that costs more than a plat that has 5 charges. Great idea.

If you're paying for a plat for Phoenix claws, then people on your realm are overcharging you. On Mid Phoenix claws go from 10-30gold a piece. And you only need 10 to buy the potion. Or get a group and go farm caravans. Stop crying because you have to farm. Vanish was on live too, yet now it's a problem because instead of dying, we just escape so we dont lose our buffs. Same thing as SOS really, but no one complains about that.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:02 AM by AngelRose
Clartiex wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:57 AM
Dariussdars wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:35 AM
Clartiex wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:02 PM
Buy stealth lore pots. pretty simple. They last a minute and have 5 charges.

Yeah, buy something that costs more than a plat that has 5 charges. Great idea.

If you're paying for a plat for Phoenix claws, then people on your realm are overcharging you. On Mid Phoenix claws go from 10-30gold a piece. And you only need 10 to buy the potion. Or get a group and go farm caravans. Stop crying because you have to farm. Vanish was on live too, yet now it's a problem because instead of dying, we just escape so we dont lose our buffs. Same thing as SOS really, but no one complains about that.

Completely missed the point. Sins have a HUGE advantage on this server, and stealth detection is just one. I have no problem with vanish, on LIVE.

ofc, a sin thinks its great....shocking.

Edit: I actually don't have an issue with vanish here either. It has always been part of the game...just annoyed at how gimped archers are on this server. The stealth detection of archer vs sins is a joke.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:11 AM by Clartiex
AngelRose wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:02 AM
Clartiex wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:57 AM
Dariussdars wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:35 AM
Yeah, buy something that costs more than a plat that has 5 charges. Great idea.

If you're paying for a plat for Phoenix claws, then people on your realm are overcharging you. On Mid Phoenix claws go from 10-30gold a piece. And you only need 10 to buy the potion. Or get a group and go farm caravans. Stop crying because you have to farm. Vanish was on live too, yet now it's a problem because instead of dying, we just escape so we dont lose our buffs. Same thing as SOS really, but no one complains about that.

Completely missed the point. Sins have a HUGE advantage on this server, and stealth detection is just one. I have no problem with vanish, on LIVE.

ofc, a sin thinks its great....shocking.

Edit: I actually don't have an issue with vanish here either. It has always been part of the game...just annoyed at how gimped archers are on this server. The stealth detection of archer vs sins is a joke.

I dont think archers have a problem. I think it's the players honestly. Lollipop straight pwns me anytime we fight. And if I'm running out of mpk unstealthed, vanish is down, I usually get critted for 700-900. Then dropped in the next 2-3 arrows. So Idk.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:14 AM by AngelRose
Clartiex wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:11 AM
AngelRose wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:02 AM
Clartiex wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:57 AM
If you're paying for a plat for Phoenix claws, then people on your realm are overcharging you. On Mid Phoenix claws go from 10-30gold a piece. And you only need 10 to buy the potion. Or get a group and go farm caravans. Stop crying because you have to farm. Vanish was on live too, yet now it's a problem because instead of dying, we just escape so we dont lose our buffs. Same thing as SOS really, but no one complains about that.

Completely missed the point. Sins have a HUGE advantage on this server, and stealth detection is just one. I have no problem with vanish, on LIVE.

ofc, a sin thinks its great....shocking.

Edit: I actually don't have an issue with vanish here either. It has always been part of the game...just annoyed at how gimped archers are on this server. The stealth detection of archer vs sins is a joke.

I dont think archers have a problem. I think it's the players honestly. Lollipop straight pwns me anytime we fight. And if I'm running out of mpk unstealthed, vanish is down, I usually get critted for 700-900. Then dropped in the next 2-3 arrows. So Idk.

Hunters are the weakest. Combat is meh and pet is useless. Neither archery or BC are any good, spec wise

and - here is an interesting link. Please note how many sins vs archers are in teh top 50 in solo kills. Sins are def OP compared to archers. Try playing an archer for a week, the let me know what you think

https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills?time-frame=this-week&filter=all
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:22 AM by Riac
AngelRose wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:14 AM
Clartiex wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:11 AM
AngelRose wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:02 AM
Completely missed the point. Sins have a HUGE advantage on this server, and stealth detection is just one. I have no problem with vanish, on LIVE.

ofc, a sin thinks its great....shocking.

Edit: I actually don't have an issue with vanish here either. It has always been part of the game...just annoyed at how gimped archers are on this server. The stealth detection of archer vs sins is a joke.

I dont think archers have a problem. I think it's the players honestly. Lollipop straight pwns me anytime we fight. And if I'm running out of mpk unstealthed, vanish is down, I usually get critted for 700-900. Then dropped in the next 2-3 arrows. So Idk.

Hunters are the weakest. Combat is meh and pet is useless. Neither archery or BC are any good, spec wise

and - here is an interesting link. Please note how many sins vs archers are in teh top 50 in solo kills. Sins are def OP compared to archers. Try playing an archer for a week, the let me know what you think

https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills?time-frame=this-week&filter=all

comparing solo kills sins vs archers isnt exactly fair imo. the only stealther that should be on that list are rangers most likely. hunters just kinda suck (and always have tbh), scouts have always zerged but they certainly dont have problems w/ bow dmg. this is a bit like comparing the solo kills of tanks vs sins, just not an apples to apples comparison.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:30 AM by AngelRose
Riac wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:22 AM
AngelRose wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:14 AM
Clartiex wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:11 AM
I dont think archers have a problem. I think it's the players honestly. Lollipop straight pwns me anytime we fight. And if I'm running out of mpk unstealthed, vanish is down, I usually get critted for 700-900. Then dropped in the next 2-3 arrows. So Idk.

Hunters are the weakest. Combat is meh and pet is useless. Neither archery or BC are any good, spec wise

and - here is an interesting link. Please note how many sins vs archers are in teh top 50 in solo kills. Sins are def OP compared to archers. Try playing an archer for a week, the let me know what you think

https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills?time-frame=this-week&filter=all

comparing solo kills sins vs archers isnt exactly fair imo. the only stealther that should be on that list are rangers most likely. hunters just kinda suck (and always have tbh), scouts have always zerged but they certainly dont have problems w/ bow dmg. this is a bit like comparing the solo kills of tanks vs sins, just not an apples to apples comparison.

No - it is a very good comparison. It just shows that its just not fun to try to solo on this server on an Archer. Anyone who tries soon realizes that and changes to sins, or groups up. And Hunters have been fine on Live for years, especially against sins. Archers have been viable as solo classes for years on live. except scouts. Scouts have been gimped on live for years, so yes, they didn't solo as much. But that just supports my point - if a class is just too under powered, people won't solo on them. Archers are gimped on this server, especially the hunter. I have seen you post this type of thing in the past. For some reason, you seem to think sins should be the only stealthers that should solo. On this server, that is true..but only because of class unbalance between the archer vs sins.

Seriously - level an hunter and play it in frontiers for a week, then get back to me.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:43 AM by Riac
AngelRose wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:30 AM
Riac wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:22 AM
AngelRose wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:14 AM
Hunters are the weakest. Combat is meh and pet is useless. Neither archery or BC are any good, spec wise

and - here is an interesting link. Please note how many sins vs archers are in teh top 50 in solo kills. Sins are def OP compared to archers. Try playing an archer for a week, the let me know what you think

https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills?time-frame=this-week&filter=all

comparing solo kills sins vs archers isnt exactly fair imo. the only stealther that should be on that list are rangers most likely. hunters just kinda suck (and always have tbh), scouts have always zerged but they certainly dont have problems w/ bow dmg. this is a bit like comparing the solo kills of tanks vs sins, just not an apples to apples comparison.

No - it is a very good comparison. It just shows that its just not fun to try to solo on this server on an Archer. Anyone who tries soon realizes that and changes to sins, or groups up. And Hunters have been fine on Live for years, especially against sins. Archers have been viable as solo classes for years on live. except scouts. Scouts have been gimped on live for years, so yes, they didn't solo as much. But that just supports my point - if a class is just too under powered, people won't solo on them. Archers are gimped on this server, especially the hunter. I have seen you post this type of thing in the past. For some reason, you seem to think sins should be the only stealthers that should solo. On this server, that is true..but only because of class unbalance between the archer vs sins.

Seriously - level an hunter and play it in frontiers for a week, then get back to me.

why would i play a hunter when i know the class sucked at this patch lvl, im not asking for a bad time. im already playing an sb and wish i would have rolled any other realm, but im too invested now.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 7:14 AM by Ceen
Riac wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:43 AM
AngelRose wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:30 AM
Riac wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:22 AM
comparing solo kills sins vs archers isnt exactly fair imo. the only stealther that should be on that list are rangers most likely. hunters just kinda suck (and always have tbh), scouts have always zerged but they certainly dont have problems w/ bow dmg. this is a bit like comparing the solo kills of tanks vs sins, just not an apples to apples comparison.

No - it is a very good comparison. It just shows that its just not fun to try to solo on this server on an Archer. Anyone who tries soon realizes that and changes to sins, or groups up. And Hunters have been fine on Live for years, especially against sins. Archers have been viable as solo classes for years on live. except scouts. Scouts have been gimped on live for years, so yes, they didn't solo as much. But that just supports my point - if a class is just too under powered, people won't solo on them. Archers are gimped on this server, especially the hunter. I have seen you post this type of thing in the past. For some reason, you seem to think sins should be the only stealthers that should solo. On this server, that is true..but only because of class unbalance between the archer vs sins.

Seriously - level an hunter and play it in frontiers for a week, then get back to me.

why would i play a hunter when i know the class sucked at this patch lvl, im not asking for a bad time. im already playing an sb and wish i would have rolled any other realm, but im too invested now.
Archers would be top tier in stealth wars. The custom stealth mechanic with no MoS as RA is what turns them into sheeps
Sun 7 Apr 2019 3:43 PM by Dariussdars
Clartiex wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:11 AM
AngelRose wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:02 AM
Clartiex wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:57 AM
If you're paying for a plat for Phoenix claws, then people on your realm are overcharging you. On Mid Phoenix claws go from 10-30gold a piece. And you only need 10 to buy the potion. Or get a group and go farm caravans. Stop crying because you have to farm. Vanish was on live too, yet now it's a problem because instead of dying, we just escape so we dont lose our buffs. Same thing as SOS really, but no one complains about that.

Completely missed the point. Sins have a HUGE advantage on this server, and stealth detection is just one. I have no problem with vanish, on LIVE.

ofc, a sin thinks its great....shocking.

Edit: I actually don't have an issue with vanish here either. It has always been part of the game...just annoyed at how gimped archers are on this server. The stealth detection of archer vs sins is a joke.

I dont think archers have a problem. I think it's the players honestly. Lollipop straight pwns me anytime we fight. And if I'm running out of mpk unstealthed, vanish is down, I usually get critted for 700-900. Then dropped in the next 2-3 arrows. So Idk.

So you run unstealthed, get crit shot, and die because you aren't running stealthed like you should be? No wonder you think archers are fine, because you run out like a visible. Great logic.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 10:33 PM by Acidbath88
Just wanted to add my own experiences. Playing a wizz I cant understand why vanish removes roots and dots? Surely that would be the downside of vanish, if any. But it does work just like an instant free life button.

Vanish needs to have a drawback other than being silenced, or just remove it and give them another toy to use. Playing a stealth should be difficult and require paitence and planning. Vanish removes the need for that.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 11:08 PM by Riac
Acidbath88 wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 10:33 PM
Just wanted to add my own experiences. Playing a wizz I cant understand why vanish removes roots and dots? Surely that would be the downside of vanish, if any. But it does work just like an instant free life button.

Vanish needs to have a drawback other than being silenced, or just remove it and give them another toy to use. Playing a stealth should be difficult and require paitence and planning. Vanish removes the need for that.

it still does requite patience and planning, even with vanish, esp on this server where and 8 man or a stream of solos is always just over the hill.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 12:26 AM by Clartiex
Dariussdars wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 3:43 PM
Clartiex wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:11 AM
AngelRose wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 6:02 AM
Completely missed the point. Sins have a HUGE advantage on this server, and stealth detection is just one. I have no problem with vanish, on LIVE.

ofc, a sin thinks its great....shocking.

Edit: I actually don't have an issue with vanish here either. It has always been part of the game...just annoyed at how gimped archers are on this server. The stealth detection of archer vs sins is a joke.

I dont think archers have a problem. I think it's the players honestly. Lollipop straight pwns me anytime we fight. And if I'm running out of mpk unstealthed, vanish is down, I usually get critted for 700-900. Then dropped in the next 2-3 arrows. So Idk.

So you run unstealthed, get crit shot, and die because you aren't running stealthed like you should be? No wonder you think archers are fine, because you run out like a visible. Great logic.


I Also end up having to fight rangers a lot. And most of them hit like a truck. Especially RR6+. So me running unstealth and getting shot is my own fault. I think their dmg is fine. Even when i fight them when I'm stealthed.
This is the same arguement people have about SB's. But I dont see Lollipop on here complaining his ranger needs buffed. Just throwing that out there. Or Nightstalker saying his hunter needs buffed.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 1:13 AM by AngelRose
Right - because one or two people play a class solo...means its not broken.


good logic. Totally ignore the amount of sins vs archers on the solo list this week.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 2:17 AM by qq6
Hi, this thread was about vanish, so i really didnt want to change course and go on about my bow damage here, there is a separate thread about archers i think. I also feel like complaining is moot in a way. I can give my opinion again, though i have said a few times i think bow damage is ok'ish, and there are other ways to "fix" archers.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 2:30 AM by AngelRose
bow damage is fine. It is the stealth detection that is unfair.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 2:37 AM by Riac
so why is the archer complaining about stealth detection in the thread complaining about vanish?
just killed a scout standing in the mouth of the mg , i bet he probably thinks the detection is fucked up too.... honestly though if youre gonna position in these dumbass areas you deserve to get PAed.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 2:45 AM by AngelRose
Your melee and poisons an ez win against archers. Why do you also need the added stealth detection?
Mon 8 Apr 2019 2:46 AM by Riac
AngelRose wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 2:45 AM
Your melee and poisons an ez win against archers. Why do you also need the added stealth detection?

get stealth lore pots and no one will ever get a vanish on you again.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 3:03 AM by AngelRose
Riac wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 2:46 AM
AngelRose wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 2:45 AM
Your melee and poisons an ez win against archers. Why do you also need the added stealth detection?

get stealth lore pots and no one will ever get a vanish on you again.

I guess you realize that doesn't answer my question?
Mon 8 Apr 2019 8:12 AM by Fooj Fujiyama
mhm it should be a 30 minute ability, it's too much of a game changer to be 15 minutes
Wed 10 Apr 2019 4:39 AM by dansari
There are several arguments and a couple of viewpoints in this thread that have merit:

From the assassin point of view:
1. Vanish is the only "defensive" active RA assassins get, besides Purge.
2. Vanish isn't an "I Win" button, it's an "I don't want to die here" button.
3. Vanish is the counter to 8mans adding

From a non-assassin point of view:
1. Vanish is too cheap to obtain and pointless after level 1, making it incredibly cost effective
2. Vanish is frustrating to play against because of things like disease.
3. Vanish is too strong in the hands of a class that can already choose its fights better than any other class, given MoS changes in regard to archers, and this plays out like: "oops, you're too strong/I made a mistake in initiating this fight.. /Vanish"

How I see it:

- Vanish needs to remain. It's base cooldown should not be increased, as this doesn't address the core issues of the ability, it simply makes the activation less frequent. It needs to be given some sort of reasonable scaling system like Purge so that investing just 5 points feels weak but investing 10-30 feels incrementally stronger. What that looks like, I'm not sure, possibly a 5s delay in using Vanish 1 and a reduction in cooldown with levels just like Purge has, or perhaps a penalty for using it (besides the disarm) that scales back as you invest more in it.
- Assassin disease needs to have its duration reduced. If it's done on its own, then that's great. If it's not, Vanish should pbaoe cure disease from all enemies upon activation.
- Vanish needs to award rps to the opponent as if the assassin died based on missing hp of the user at the time of activation. This would simply make it less frustrating to have an assassin Vanish on you because you would be rewarded with the win, albeit possibly not the kill itself.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 4:54 AM by dbeattie71
Make sure SOS is changed too, I have the same problem with Minstrels, gonna lose = SOS.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 4:58 AM by dansari
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 4:54 AM
Make sure SOS is changed too, I have the same problem with Minstrils, gonna lose = SOS.

Changing SoS has a direct impact on group play, though, and while valid, isn't really the point of this thread.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:27 AM by Riac
dansari wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 4:54 AM
Make sure SOS is changed too, I have the same problem with Minstrils, gonna lose = SOS.

Changing SoS has a direct impact on group play, though, and while valid, isn't really the point of this thread.

ooooo its not the point of thread, point dismissed......stealth lore pots are a thing, there is next to no legitimate complaint about vanish when stealth lore pots exist in the game. they are so good that stealthers are using them against other stealthers.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:35 AM by dansari
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:27 AM
ooooo its not the point of thread, point dismissed......stealth lore pots are a thing, there is next to no legitimate complaint about vanish when stealth lore pots exist in the game. they are so good that stealthers are using them against other stealthers.

"Next to no legitimate complaint"

>13th page of legitimate complaints

There are very clear frustrations, especially voiced by visible classes, which I summarized above. You may disagree, but that doesn't make them less legitimate, unless you put forth valid points with evidence as to why they're illegitimate. Saying "just buy stealth lore pots" doesn't address the core issues of the ability itself. I could repeat myself, but the points are literally a mousewheel/finger flick away.

Edit: damnit, this is the 14th page, so you have to click once AND THEN mousewheel/flicka da wrist to view the valid points I summarized. So much work, I know.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:41 AM by Riac
dansari wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:35 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:27 AM
ooooo its not the point of thread, point dismissed......stealth lore pots are a thing, there is next to no legitimate complaint about vanish when stealth lore pots exist in the game. they are so good that stealthers are using them against other stealthers.

"Next to no legitimate complaint"

>13th page of legitimate complaints

There are very clear frustrations, especially voiced by visible classes, which I summarized above. You may disagree, but that doesn't make them less legitimate, unless you put forth valid points with evidence as to why they're illegitimate. Saying "just buy stealth lore pots" doesn't address the core issues of the ability itself. I could repeat myself, but the points are literally a mousewheel/finger flick away.

Edit: damnit, this is the 14th page, so you have to click once AND THEN mousewheel/flicka da wrist to view the valid points I summarized. So much work, I know.

>i vanish
>you pop stealth lore pot and see me from a large distance
>my vanish has been countered.

its essentially true sight for everyone, and whats even better is that you can get it with gold instead of having to spend your very limited ra points.
just go ahead and delve down to the real problem and say you dont wanna have to pay the gold in order to get the guaranteed kills on stealthers.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:47 AM by dansari
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:41 AM
>i vanish
>you pop stealth lore pot and see me from a large distance
>my vanish has been countered.

its essentially true sight for everyone, and whats even better is that you can get it with gold instead of having to spend your very limited ra points.
just go ahead and delve down to the real problem and say you dont wanna have to pay the gold in order to get the guaranteed kills on stealthers.

Umm.. or I want a balanced game which forces you to make choices, while also encouraging QoL changes to be made.

The current Vanish RA doesn't force you to make any choices, just pick up Vanish 1 like every other assassin and call it a day. Your solution doesn't fix this.

The current poison disease duration is way too long. Your solution doesn't fix this.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:49 AM by Riac
dansari wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:47 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:41 AM
>i vanish
>you pop stealth lore pot and see me from a large distance
>my vanish has been countered.

its essentially true sight for everyone, and whats even better is that you can get it with gold instead of having to spend your very limited ra points.
just go ahead and delve down to the real problem and say you dont wanna have to pay the gold in order to get the guaranteed kills on stealthers.

Umm.. or I want a balanced game which forces you to make choices, while also encouraging QoL changes to be made.

The current Vanish RA doesn't force you to make any choices, just pick up Vanish 1 like every other assassin and call it a day. Your solution doesn't fix this.

The current poison disease duration is way too long. Your solution doesn't fix this.

i agree disease poison is a bit too long, it wastes time on my charges and costs me gold but disease has nothing to do with vanish. they provided you and everyone else a counter to vanish in the form of stealth lore pots and its no one fault but your own if you dont wanna use them.

can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 6:26 AM by AngelRose
Vanish is fine. It's annoying, but fine. It is the fact sins are OP in other areas that makes vanish seem to be so bad. It is like the straw that broke the camel's back. If sins were not so OP, the cry to nerf vanish would decrease.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 7:53 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:41 AM
dansari wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:35 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:27 AM
ooooo its not the point of thread, point dismissed......stealth lore pots are a thing, there is next to no legitimate complaint about vanish when stealth lore pots exist in the game. they are so good that stealthers are using them against other stealthers.

"Next to no legitimate complaint"

>13th page of legitimate complaints

There are very clear frustrations, especially voiced by visible classes, which I summarized above. You may disagree, but that doesn't make them less legitimate, unless you put forth valid points with evidence as to why they're illegitimate. Saying "just buy stealth lore pots" doesn't address the core issues of the ability itself. I could repeat myself, but the points are literally a mousewheel/finger flick away.

Edit: damnit, this is the 14th page, so you have to click once AND THEN mousewheel/flicka da wrist to view the valid points I summarized. So much work, I know.

>i vanish
>you pop stealth lore pot and see me from a large distance
>my vanish has been countered.

its essentially true sight for everyone, and whats even better is that you can get it with gold instead of having to spend your very limited ra points.
just go ahead and delve down to the real problem and say you dont wanna have to pay the gold in order to get the guaranteed kills on stealthers.

That’s not really how they work. The range isn’t that large.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 9:50 AM by dansari
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:49 AM
dansari wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:47 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:41 AM
>i vanish
>you pop stealth lore pot and see me from a large distance
>my vanish has been countered.

its essentially true sight for everyone, and whats even better is that you can get it with gold instead of having to spend your very limited ra points.
just go ahead and delve down to the real problem and say you dont wanna have to pay the gold in order to get the guaranteed kills on stealthers.

Umm.. or I want a balanced game which forces you to make choices, while also encouraging QoL changes to be made.

The current Vanish RA doesn't force you to make any choices, just pick up Vanish 1 like every other assassin and call it a day. Your solution doesn't fix this.

The current poison disease duration is way too long. Your solution doesn't fix this.

i agree disease poison is a bit too long, it wastes time on my charges and costs me gold but disease has nothing to do with vanish. they provided you and everyone else a counter to vanish in the form of stealth lore pots and its no one fault but your own if you dont wanna use them.

can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.

It's an explicit example brought up by visibles who get vanished on. Assassins vanish a 1v1 they initiated, "I" sit with disease for 2min and get finished off by another assassin or get run over by a group. It all goes into QoL changes and it's part of the conversation in this thread, even though it has nothing to do with vanish itself.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 2:21 PM by Amp_Phetamine
phixion wrote:
Sat 30 Mar 2019 3:36 PM
Dominus wrote:
Sat 30 Mar 2019 2:49 PM
you missed the point. Sins jumping tanks shouldn't be happening and wouldn't if vanish wasn't around. Vanish is a get out of jail free card for bad players.

No, you pretty much conflated disease and vanish hand in hand. Single target disease lasts 5 minutes from a Cabby and I had to deal with that yesterday.

Also, assassins have always jumped tanks... I know I've played em.

I'm fine with Vanish as is. It does get frustrating dealing with multiple vanished targets but occasionally you get lucky and pop them anyways. Plus I'd be against anything that would reduce an assassins viability to engage me.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 2:24 PM by phixion
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 2:21 PM
I'm fine with Vanish as is. It does get frustrating dealing with multiple vanished targets but occasionally you get lucky and pop them anyways. Plus I'd be against anything that would reduce an assassins viability to engage me.

While we're complaining about vanish, what about dirty tricks and reflex attack getting a nerf? 2 of the most OP skills in the game!
Wed 10 Apr 2019 2:26 PM by Amp_Phetamine
phixion wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 2:24 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 2:21 PM
I'm fine with Vanish as is. It does get frustrating dealing with multiple vanished targets but occasionally you get lucky and pop them anyways. Plus I'd be against anything that would reduce an assassins viability to engage me.

While we're complaining about vanish, what about dirty tricks and reflex attack getting a nerf? 2 of the most OP skills in the game!

We need to delete this whole conversation if that's the case xD - EVERYTHING IS FINE! NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

Wed 10 Apr 2019 8:44 PM by Dariussdars
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 7:53 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:41 AM
dansari wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:35 AM
"Next to no legitimate complaint"

>13th page of legitimate complaints

There are very clear frustrations, especially voiced by visible classes, which I summarized above. You may disagree, but that doesn't make them less legitimate, unless you put forth valid points with evidence as to why they're illegitimate. Saying "just buy stealth lore pots" doesn't address the core issues of the ability itself. I could repeat myself, but the points are literally a mousewheel/finger flick away.

Edit: damnit, this is the 14th page, so you have to click once AND THEN mousewheel/flicka da wrist to view the valid points I summarized. So much work, I know.

>i vanish
>you pop stealth lore pot and see me from a large distance
>my vanish has been countered.

its essentially true sight for everyone, and whats even better is that you can get it with gold instead of having to spend your very limited ra points.
just go ahead and delve down to the real problem and say you dont wanna have to pay the gold in order to get the guaranteed kills on stealthers.

That’s not really how they work. The range isn’t that large.
Isn't the detect range only 250 units?
Wed 10 Apr 2019 8:47 PM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 7:53 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:41 AM
dansari wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:35 AM
"Next to no legitimate complaint"

>13th page of legitimate complaints

There are very clear frustrations, especially voiced by visible classes, which I summarized above. You may disagree, but that doesn't make them less legitimate, unless you put forth valid points with evidence as to why they're illegitimate. Saying "just buy stealth lore pots" doesn't address the core issues of the ability itself. I could repeat myself, but the points are literally a mousewheel/finger flick away.

Edit: damnit, this is the 14th page, so you have to click once AND THEN mousewheel/flicka da wrist to view the valid points I summarized. So much work, I know.

>i vanish
>you pop stealth lore pot and see me from a large distance
>my vanish has been countered.

its essentially true sight for everyone, and whats even better is that you can get it with gold instead of having to spend your very limited ra points.
just go ahead and delve down to the real problem and say you dont wanna have to pay the gold in order to get the guaranteed kills on stealthers.

That’s not really how they work. The range isn’t that large.

its certainly large enough, I use them to line up PAs on inc stealthers when i see them stealth a ways out and know they are heading my way and i see them much before they see me.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 8:47 PM by Riac
dansari wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 9:50 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:49 AM
dansari wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:47 AM
Umm.. or I want a balanced game which forces you to make choices, while also encouraging QoL changes to be made.

The current Vanish RA doesn't force you to make any choices, just pick up Vanish 1 like every other assassin and call it a day. Your solution doesn't fix this.

The current poison disease duration is way too long. Your solution doesn't fix this.

i agree disease poison is a bit too long, it wastes time on my charges and costs me gold but disease has nothing to do with vanish. they provided you and everyone else a counter to vanish in the form of stealth lore pots and its no one fault but your own if you dont wanna use them.

can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.

It's an explicit example brought up by visibles who get vanished on. Assassins vanish a 1v1 they initiated, "I" sit with disease for 2min and get finished off by another assassin or get run over by a group. It all goes into QoL changes and it's part of the conversation in this thread, even though it has nothing to do with vanish itself.

so your quarrel is with disease timers and not vanish? youre in the wrong thread then. thtat group woulda ran you over diseased or not.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 10:20 PM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 8:47 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 7:53 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:41 AM
>i vanish
>you pop stealth lore pot and see me from a large distance
>my vanish has been countered.

its essentially true sight for everyone, and whats even better is that you can get it with gold instead of having to spend your very limited ra points.
just go ahead and delve down to the real problem and say you dont wanna have to pay the gold in order to get the guaranteed kills on stealthers.

That’s not really how they work. The range isn’t that large.

its certainly large enough, I use them to line up PAs on inc stealthers when i see them stealth a ways out and know they are heading my way and i see them much before they see me.

I’ve used them and seen same level SBs 900 units and have also used them and been PAd, I think they’re buggy.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:03 AM by dansari
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 8:47 PM
dansari wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 9:50 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 5:49 AM
i agree disease poison is a bit too long, it wastes time on my charges and costs me gold but disease has nothing to do with vanish. they provided you and everyone else a counter to vanish in the form of stealth lore pots and its no one fault but your own if you dont wanna use them.

can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.

It's an explicit example brought up by visibles who get vanished on. Assassins vanish a 1v1 they initiated, "I" sit with disease for 2min and get finished off by another assassin or get run over by a group. It all goes into QoL changes and it's part of the conversation in this thread, even though it has nothing to do with vanish itself.

so your quarrel is with disease timers and not vanish? youre in the wrong thread then. thtat group woulda ran you over diseased or not.

Please don't strawman the argument. Your solution still doesn't fix Vanish being too good for 5pts and irrelevant after 5pts. I care about the RA scaling well, not throwing a gold sink at it and calling it a solution.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:37 AM by Riac
dansari wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:03 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 8:47 PM
dansari wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 9:50 AM
It's an explicit example brought up by visibles who get vanished on. Assassins vanish a 1v1 they initiated, "I" sit with disease for 2min and get finished off by another assassin or get run over by a group. It all goes into QoL changes and it's part of the conversation in this thread, even though it has nothing to do with vanish itself.

so your quarrel is with disease timers and not vanish? youre in the wrong thread then. thtat group woulda ran you over diseased or not.

Please don't strawman the argument. Your solution still doesn't fix Vanish being too good for 5pts and irrelevant after 5pts. I care about the RA scaling well, not throwing a gold sink at it and calling it a solution.

youre in a thread called vanish complaining about disease and accusing me of strawmanning..... nice
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:43 AM by AngelRose
Vanish is OP because it is partnered with a disease that lasts WAY to long. That is not creating a strawman, that is discussing all the components of the problem.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:47 AM by Riac
AngelRose wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:43 AM
Vanish is OP because it is partnered with a disease that lasts WAY to long. That is not creating a strawman, that is discussing all the components of the problem.

vanish and disease have existed in this state for literally years, im just going to quit bumping this thread arguing with yall.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:49 AM by AngelRose
Riac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:47 AM
AngelRose wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:43 AM
Vanish is OP because it is partnered with a disease that lasts WAY to long. That is not creating a strawman, that is discussing all the components of the problem.

vanish and disease have existed in this state for literally years, im just going to quit bumping this thread arguing with yall.

just curious - when did you play live last?
Thu 11 Apr 2019 7:47 AM by Riac
AngelRose wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:49 AM
Riac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:47 AM
AngelRose wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:43 AM
Vanish is OP because it is partnered with a disease that lasts WAY to long. That is not creating a strawman, that is discussing all the components of the problem.

vanish and disease have existed in this state for literally years, im just going to quit bumping this thread arguing with yall.

just curious - when did you play live last?

what difference are you disputing?
Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:19 PM by dansari
Riac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 6:37 AM
youre in a thread called vanish complaining about disease and accusing me of strawmanning..... nice

No, you dismissed the very real argument of the RA not scaling correctly (given that level 1 is what 99.9% of people will take and the .01% wastes points) by saying "stealth lore pots" and instead shifted the argument to disease, even though I clearly stated that while it had nothing to do with vanish, it's part of the conversation around assassins and them leaving 1v1 fights that they initiate (a QoL change that would go a long way for assassins and visis alike). Then you continued on the disease train because it's easier to defend than the RA not scaling correctly (which shows you do not care about a balanced game and have a weird obsession with stealth lore pots, even though it does not solve any Vanish issues and doesn't actually counter Vanish every time), which is when you created a strawman argument. A strawman fallacy is when someone creates a position and acts as if their opponent is defending said position because it's easier to attack than their actual argument, which is what you did to me regarding disease timers. You continually acted as if that was the only issue I brought up, when in fact it was one of six points in the overview that started this entire back and forth.

Again: Vanish doesn't scale in a meaningful way that forces assassins to invest points or make the choice not to invest points. Purge is a great example of an RA scaling well, imo. I believe most people also agree that poison disease timers are too long. When an assassin vanishes on you and leaves you without hp regen and slowed for 2 minutes, the game doesn't feel fun. This is why it's more a QoL issue than a balance one, but also why I brought it up initially when I submitted, what I thought, was a quick overview of both sides of the argument surrounding the scenario of Vanish in real gameplay situations.
Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:53 PM by Fateboi
dirtyblade wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:03 PM
Ok, I play a stealther and I am really, really starting to hate Vanish...

Hardly anyone specced Vanish on live servers, not even in the old days. But here, almost 90% of assassins spec it and its starting to get fecking frustrating.

6/8 fights ive had tonight have used vanish.

I think personally, put Vanish on a 30 min timer, not 15 mins

or

increase it to 15 points RA's
for 5 RA's its way too powerful
Rant off... what do you guys think ????

People vanish Live all the time m8
Wed 17 Apr 2019 7:41 AM by Sepplord
dirtyblade wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:03 PM
Ok, I play a stealther and I am really, really starting to hate Vanish...

Hardly anyone specced Vanish on live servers, not even in the old days. But here, almost 90% of assassins spec it and its starting to get fecking frustrating.

6/8 fights ive had tonight have used vanish.

I think personally, put Vanish on a 30 min timer, not 15 mins

or

increase it to 15 points RA's

for 5 RA's its way too powerful

Rant off... what do you guys think ????

how many did you find after vanish using the stealthlore pot?

and please don't tell me you don't use stealthlore pots when 75% of your fights end with the enemy vanishing
Wed 17 Apr 2019 8:00 AM by Stimmed
Just remove Vanish.

So many cry about it thinking that it will change fights who cares if you die most the time its a 5 minute run to get back unless you defend your own realm .....stuff that to long a run!.

I have not used it since rr5 and honestly yeah sometimes it would be cool to live but it has not made the game less enjoyable. At least you wont have everyone complaining vanish is OP!.
Wed 17 Apr 2019 11:45 AM by dirtyblade
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 7:41 AM
dirtyblade wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:03 PM
Ok, I play a stealther and I am really, really starting to hate Vanish...

Hardly anyone specced Vanish on live servers, not even in the old days. But here, almost 90% of assassins spec it and its starting to get fecking frustrating.

6/8 fights ive had tonight have used vanish.

I think personally, put Vanish on a 30 min timer, not 15 mins

or

increase it to 15 points RA's

for 5 RA's its way too powerful

Rant off... what do you guys think ????

how many did you find after vanish using the stealthlore pot?

and please don't tell me you don't use stealthlore pots when 75% of your fights end with the enemy vanishing

So you're assuming i have the phoenix stuff to buy them? Which I dont, so no stealth lore available
Wed 17 Apr 2019 11:50 AM by Sepplord
dirtyblade wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 11:45 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 7:41 AM
dirtyblade wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:03 PM
Ok, I play a stealther and I am really, really starting to hate Vanish...

Hardly anyone specced Vanish on live servers, not even in the old days. But here, almost 90% of assassins spec it and its starting to get fecking frustrating.

6/8 fights ive had tonight have used vanish.

I think personally, put Vanish on a 30 min timer, not 15 mins

or

increase it to 15 points RA's

for 5 RA's its way too powerful

Rant off... what do you guys think ????

how many did you find after vanish using the stealthlore pot?

and please don't tell me you don't use stealthlore pots when 75% of your fights end with the enemy vanishing

So you're assuming i have the phoenix stuff to buy them? Which I dont, so no stealth lore available

Uhh...yes i am assuming that. Otherwise your complaint falls in the same category as that unbuffed shieldtank that complained about getting killed by a PA-combo.

Do you think someone going into RvR solo without template or combinedforces can make legit complaints when he gets killed?
Just like that your complaint is not legit if you chose to ignore the available option/counter
Wed 17 Apr 2019 11:57 AM by dirtyblade
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 11:50 AM
dirtyblade wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 11:45 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 7:41 AM
how many did you find after vanish using the stealthlore pot?

and please don't tell me you don't use stealthlore pots when 75% of your fights end with the enemy vanishing

So you're assuming i have the phoenix stuff to buy them? Which I dont, so no stealth lore available

Uhh...yes i am assuming that. Otherwise your complaint falls in the same category as that unbuffed shieldtank that complained about getting killed by a PA-combo.

Do you think someone going into RvR solo without template or combinedforces can make legit complaints when he gets killed?
Just like that your complaint is not legit if you chose to ignore the available counters

How was I complaining... it was a suggestion...

I thimk theres alot pf stuff that need attention like disease length. Ive played stealther since just after Beta so I have a pretty damn good idea how the stealth wars is. From my experience, not many specced vanish due to the amount of SL that was available.

And me being able to only RvR then for 1 hour ish it was just frustrating at the time of not getting a kill and being constantly rolled... at that time it just felt like a wasted night is all.

As for stealth lore, at the time i didnt even know it existed on this server or able to get the phoenix stuff to buy.
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:03 PM by Tillbeast
Easy replace vanish with SoS. Assassins need an escape tool. If forcing assassins to spend 15 points on vanish then force other to spend 15 points on there escape tools too.

Vanish is fine as it is, it does exactly what it was designed to do. Yes even being a spiteful git is also in the abilities description, the amount of times I whacked a passing high rr solo visible tank with a diseased weapon and then vanishing.

Assassins need a way of getting out of an area as they lack the sustained dps of a visible dpser nor have the survivability of any armour beyond leather.
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:29 PM by Sepplord
dirtyblade wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 11:57 AM
How was I complaining... it was a suggestion...

Ok, I play a stealther and I am really, really starting to hate Vanish...

Hardly anyone specced Vanish on live servers, not even in the old days. But here, almost 90% of assassins spec it and its starting to get fecking frustrating.

Sounded like a complaint to me. If that was a misinterpretation i am sorry, but it didn't sound as if you were making a simple suggestion that was not based on a complaint.

I completely agree on vanish being frustrating....just as almost killing a sorc to die moc-lifetapping, almost killing a minstrel to get SOSed on (sometimes even getting kitekilled then instead of simply running away), stunning a friar just to die on RA-proccs, having a good fight and getting added, etc...
I can't think of a really satisfying way to lose a fight in DAoC (outside of 15minute long 8vs8s that just leave everyone sweating and with a DAMN THAT WAS FUN grin, no matter the otucome). An enemy using an RA is never satisfying unless they misplayed...and a misplayed vanish is one of the most satisfying thing there is. Beating up an assassin that is disarmed and silenced? Doesn't get much better than that for most people...

What separates Vanish from several I-Win RAs is that it doesn't kill your opponent, it helps ZERO concerning fighting power. And to top it off people can use a potion to counter it's effectivity. Which other RA can be countered by simply throwing gold at it?
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:34 PM by Lillebror
Tillbeast wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:03 PM
Easy replace vanish with SoS. Assassins need an escape tool. If forcing assassins to spend 15 points on vanish then force other to spend 15 points on there escape tools too.

Vanish is fine as it is, it does exactly what it was designed to do. Yes even being a spiteful git is also in the abilities description, the amount of times I whacked a passing high rr solo visible tank with a diseased weapon and then vanishing.

Assassins need a way of getting out of an area as they lack the sustained dps of a visible dpser nor have the survivability of any armour beyond leather.

If any tool at all, it should be an speed burst like Hunter and Ranger could use points to spec for.
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:35 PM by Lillebror
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:29 PM
dirtyblade wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 11:57 AM
How was I complaining... it was a suggestion...

Ok, I play a stealther and I am really, really starting to hate Vanish...

Hardly anyone specced Vanish on live servers, not even in the old days. But here, almost 90% of assassins spec it and its starting to get fecking frustrating.

Sounded like a complaint to me. If that was a misinterpretation i am sorry, but it didn't sound as if you were making a simple suggestion that was not based on a complaint.

I completely agree on vanish being frustrating....just as almost killing a sorc to die moc-lifetapping, almost killing a minstrel to get SOSed on (sometimes even getting kitekilled then instead of simply running away), stunning a friar just to die on RA-proccs, having a good fight and getting added, etc...
I can't think of a really satisfying way to lose a fight in DAoC (outside of 15minute long 8vs8s that just leave everyone sweating and with a DAMN THAT WAS FUN grin, no matter the otucome). An enemy using an RA is never satisfying unless they misplayed...and a misplayed vanish is one of the most satisfying thing there is. Beating up an assassin that is disarmed and silenced? Doesn't get much better than that for most people...

What separates Vanish from several I-Win RAs is that it doesn't kill your opponent, it helps ZERO concerning fighting power. And to top it off people can use a potion to counter it's effectivity. Which other RA can be countered by simply throwing gold at it?

Counter it??? you have 250 units range to detect the Assassin on a speed thats close to caster speed and its not until after the initial 3 seconds where they got the imba stealth
they should atleast have to spec for second Vanish to get the imba stealth first 3 seconds. Like they scaled Purge
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:47 PM by Tillbeast
Lillebror wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:34 PM
Tillbeast wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:03 PM
Easy replace vanish with SoS. Assassins need an escape tool. If forcing assassins to spend 15 points on vanish then force other to spend 15 points on there escape tools too.

Vanish is fine as it is, it does exactly what it was designed to do. Yes even being a spiteful git is also in the abilities description, the amount of times I whacked a passing high rr solo visible tank with a diseased weapon and then vanishing.

Assassins need a way of getting out of an area as they lack the sustained dps of a visible dpser nor have the survivability of any armour beyond leather.

If any tool at all, it should be an speed burst like Hunter and Ranger could use points to spec for.

Yes but the hunter/ranger speed burst is not great and its not an escape tool, its a tool to chase down fleeing prey. Also you are just going to get CC'd. Seriosly give assassins a solo non group version of SoS at less cost than what the full SoS costs so at least range dps classes have a chance of killing them.

Also Lillebror I don't know what class you play but I bet it has a 5 point ra that is designed for that class. More chances are is that RA will have a bigger effect on a battle, will earn both you and your realm mates (even ones not in your group) more rps than what vanish does and all for the cost of a 5 point ra...all vanish does is save an assassins ass and prevents someone getting rp...which is the whine about vanish....not get my rp!!!
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:56 PM by Lillebror
Tillbeast wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:47 PM
Lillebror wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:34 PM
Tillbeast wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:03 PM
Easy replace vanish with SoS. Assassins need an escape tool. If forcing assassins to spend 15 points on vanish then force other to spend 15 points on there escape tools too.

Vanish is fine as it is, it does exactly what it was designed to do. Yes even being a spiteful git is also in the abilities description, the amount of times I whacked a passing high rr solo visible tank with a diseased weapon and then vanishing.

Assassins need a way of getting out of an area as they lack the sustained dps of a visible dpser nor have the survivability of any armour beyond leather.

If any tool at all, it should be an speed burst like Hunter and Ranger could use points to spec for.

Yes but the hunter/ranger speed burst is not great and its not an escape tool, its a tool to chase down fleeing prey. Also you are just going to get CC'd. Seriosly give assassins and archers a solo non group version of SoS at less cost than what the full SoS costs so at least range dps classes have a chance of killing them.

Keep your Vanish, but Vanish 1 should not have the IMBA super stealth first 3 seconds. If your willing to invest 10 points to not run back or not give opponents rps. Im fine with that
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:01 PM by Tillbeast
Lillebror wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:56 PM
Tillbeast wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:47 PM
Lillebror wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:34 PM
If any tool at all, it should be an speed burst like Hunter and Ranger could use points to spec for.

Yes but the hunter/ranger speed burst is not great and its not an escape tool, its a tool to chase down fleeing prey. Also you are just going to get CC'd. Seriosly give assassins and archers a solo non group version of SoS at less cost than what the full SoS costs so at least range dps classes have a chance of killing them.

Keep your Vanish, but Vanish 1 should not have the IMBA super stealth first 3 seconds. If your willing to invest 10 points to not run back or not give opponents rps. Im fine with that

Then all other 5 points speciality points should cost 10....far worse and more effective 5 pt ras than vanish...if that bd wants to earn shed load of rps make twf only snare at 5 points...if he wants damage make him pay 10...you could do this for every other class
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:05 PM by Sepplord
as a reminder, stealthlore pots do not give you 250detection range, they give you ADDITIONAL detection range...otherwise they wouldn't be used by assassins at all

My other points have been layed out by tillbeast pretty well
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:13 PM by Lillebror
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:05 PM
as a reminder, stealthlore pots do not give you 250detection range, they give you ADDITIONAL detection range...otherwise they wouldn't be used by assassins at all

My other points have been layed out by tillbeast pretty well

There is only 2 classes that will manage to find you on a regular basis even with additional detection range. An Archers see you tiny bit better than a visual

3 seconds with 144% speed (opponent still on max sprint speed)

Your either a Assassin or a lucky visual if you find the vanished guy
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:22 PM by Sepplord
Lillebror wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:13 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:05 PM
as a reminder, stealthlore pots do not give you 250detection range, they give you ADDITIONAL detection range...otherwise they wouldn't be used by assassins at all

My other points have been layed out by tillbeast pretty well

There is only 2 classes that will manage to find you on a regular basis even with additional detection range. An Archers see you tiny bit better than a visual

3 seconds with 144% speed (opponent still on max sprint speed)

Your either a Assassin or a lucky visual if you find the vanished guy

why would there be a single class at all that not only reliably nullifies my 5point realmability but only nullfies the beneficial parts (i stay disarmed when someone attacks me after vanishing) simply by throwing gold into the fight?
Which other RA is reliably nullifying by using a potion on a specific class (and semi-reliably on all other classes)?
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:30 PM by Lillebror
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:22 PM
Lillebror wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:13 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:05 PM
as a reminder, stealthlore pots do not give you 250detection range, they give you ADDITIONAL detection range...otherwise they wouldn't be used by assassins at all

My other points have been layed out by tillbeast pretty well

There is only 2 classes that will manage to find you on a regular basis even with additional detection range. An Archers see you tiny bit better than a visual

3 seconds with 144% speed (opponent still on max sprint speed)

Your either a Assassin or a lucky visual if you find the vanished guy

why would there be a single class at all that not only reliably nullifies my 5point realmability but only nullfies the beneficial parts (i stay disarmed when someone attacks me after vanishing) simply by throwing gold into the fight?
Which other RA is reliably nullifying by using a potion on a specific class (and semi-reliably on all other classes)?

He cant find you the first 3 seconds even with stealthlore you move with 144% speed if not health snared. (its like Red October sub movie, he gotta be lucky to find you, he need to guess correct direction to have a chance. But you should be forced to spec into Vanish 2 to get that stealth pretection imo.
But Its even worse. for all stealth classes you can use coin to nullify a whole skill three...

Killing a Vanished Assassin feels like killing a Champion, BD, Thane XX insert hard target. I can be stealth zerged for a while if i manage to get thouse kills ^^
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:47 PM by Sepplord
You said that 2classes can regularly find a vanished target....i commented on it and now you backpedal again...

repeating that you think assassins should have to pay10 for the current effect doesn't add weight to statement. Lay out why exactly it is a problem at 5points but not at 10points? Compare it to others 5/10points RAs and how they benefit the user and change the outcomes of a fight


Would people be happier if, instead of vanishing, the assassin just wins the fight and kills its target if it was a 1vs1?
It would not let assassins escape adds anymore, and necros/friars/etc... would get attacked far less just to be vanished on.


So far i am convinced that the only problem with vanish is a psychological one. When an assassin vanishes you immediatly think "i was winning, i got cheated out of my win" while someone using ST/TWF/SOS/AM/whatever and turns around the fight "won legit". If people would go "wooh, good that assassins only have a RA that lets them run instead of turning the fight around and killing me" there wouldn't be a discussion about vanish at all
Wed 17 Apr 2019 3:25 PM by inoeth
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:22 PM
Lillebror wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:13 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 1:05 PM
as a reminder, stealthlore pots do not give you 250detection range, they give you ADDITIONAL detection range...otherwise they wouldn't be used by assassins at all

My other points have been layed out by tillbeast pretty well

There is only 2 classes that will manage to find you on a regular basis even with additional detection range. An Archers see you tiny bit better than a visual

3 seconds with 144% speed (opponent still on max sprint speed)

Your either a Assassin or a lucky visual if you find the vanished guy

why would there be a single class at all that not only reliably nullifies my 5point realmability but only nullfies the beneficial parts (i stay disarmed when someone attacks me after vanishing) simply by throwing gold into the fight?
Which other RA is reliably nullifying by using a potion on a specific class (and semi-reliably on all other classes)?

vanish exactly. everytime you hit some active ras, assassins vanish. which nullifies far more than 5 point vanish for assassins that get cought.
its still kind of unfair since these pots cost alot of money if you dont farm claws... which is not possible as a solo player.
Wed 17 Apr 2019 8:36 PM by Sepplord
If you go in with the mindset that you would kill the assassin instead of vanishing, Yeah then it feels like you wasted your actives just for them to run away...if you consider them killing you instead with an offensive active RA as the alternative then running away and you living suddenly doesnt sound as bad

Remove the superspeed/superstealth, heck make assassin auto-reveal after 3sec and put them in combat so they cant restealth, but removes the disarm/science too. No more running away with vanish. I am sure most assassins would welcome the change, but i somehow feel people would beg for us to simply run away again


Ans if you dont want to Farm money to bis pots...then deal with not having pots or advocate for cheaper pots. Its the same with all other grinds that are required for pvp, you either do them or work around being weaker than the rest

Btw. my lvl49hunter already has 9claws, Simply from joining a keepraids BG once for an hour. Not a solo activity, yes, but an activity widely available to every soloplayer
Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:19 AM by inoeth
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 8:36 PM
If you go in with the mindset that you would kill the assassin instead of vanishing, Yeah then it feels like you wasted your actives just for them to run away...if you consider them killing you instead with an offensive active RA as the alternative then running away and you living suddenly doesnt sound as bad

Remove the superspeed/superstealth, heck make assassin auto-reveal after 3sec and put them in combat so they cant restealth, but removes the disarm/science too. No more running away with vanish. I am sure most assassins would welcome the change, but i somehow feel people would beg for us to simply run away again


Ans if you dont want to Farm money to bis pots...then deal with not having pots or advocate for cheaper pots. Its the same with all other grinds that are required for pvp, you either do them or work around being weaker than the rest

Btw. my lvl49hunter already has 9claws, Simply from joining a keepraids BG once for an hour. Not a solo activity, yes, but an activity widely available to every soloplayer

Get lvl 50 try to make some rp and experiance how often enemys vanish, then come back and we can talk.
Yes you are right im always very thankful i wasted my actives because then i finally have 15 min to do some housework before getting vanished again...
Tbh are you actually believing the bs you are talking?
Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:46 AM by Sepplord
inoeth wrote:
Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:19 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 8:36 PM
If you go in with the mindset that you would kill the assassin instead of vanishing, Yeah then it feels like you wasted your actives just for them to run away...if you consider them killing you instead with an offensive active RA as the alternative then running away and you living suddenly doesnt sound as bad

Remove the superspeed/superstealth, heck make assassin auto-reveal after 3sec and put them in combat so they cant restealth, but removes the disarm/science too. No more running away with vanish. I am sure most assassins would welcome the change, but i somehow feel people would beg for us to simply run away again


Ans if you dont want to Farm money to bis pots...then deal with not having pots or advocate for cheaper pots. Its the same with all other grinds that are required for pvp, you either do them or work around being weaker than the rest

Btw. my lvl49hunter already has 9claws, Simply from joining a keepraids BG once for an hour. Not a solo activity, yes, but an activity widely available to every soloplayer

Get lvl 50 try to make some rp and experiance how often enemys vanish, then come back and we can talk.
Yes you are right im always very thankful i wasted my actives because then i finally have 15 min to do some housework before getting vanished again...
Tbh are you actually believing the bs you are talking?

you are just ignoring what i am saying...if you deem it bullshit and simply dismiss it i would advise reading what is actually standing there instead of going of off your biased assumptions. I bet you are thankful for not dieing when an assassin vanishes, instead of being dead and the assasin dancing on your dead body. Again, lets make vanish an offensive ability...tier it exactly like purge. Do you really believe the QQ would decrease when assassins start killing people instead of running away?

why do you assume that i do not have other characters?
My SB is 5L5, basically 100% solo, my warrior is RR5 (only about 3hours solo). Both have been vanished on, especially frustrating if you think you finally got one of the stealthzergers. I know that it can feel incredibly unfair, but it's a psychological problem that you think you would have won every fight against a vansihing assassin. Which is wrong. The Hunter was mentioned purely to show that even a unwanted class in groups that isn't maxlevel can get claws easily.


People like you, that like to attack a persons characters instead of the argument are the reason why i don't have my chars in my signature. I'll take it as a sign that you don't really have any argument to make, that's why you need to make up things and dismiss me because i "need to get a level 50". Pathetic
(it's kind of sad that someone reads such a low effort comment and feels it deserves a like )
Thu 18 Apr 2019 8:45 AM by inoeth
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:46 AM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:19 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 17 Apr 2019 8:36 PM
If you go in with the mindset that you would kill the assassin instead of vanishing, Yeah then it feels like you wasted your actives just for them to run away...if you consider them killing you instead with an offensive active RA as the alternative then running away and you living suddenly doesnt sound as bad

Remove the superspeed/superstealth, heck make assassin auto-reveal after 3sec and put them in combat so they cant restealth, but removes the disarm/science too. No more running away with vanish. I am sure most assassins would welcome the change, but i somehow feel people would beg for us to simply run away again


Ans if you dont want to Farm money to bis pots...then deal with not having pots or advocate for cheaper pots. Its the same with all other grinds that are required for pvp, you either do them or work around being weaker than the rest

Btw. my lvl49hunter already has 9claws, Simply from joining a keepraids BG once for an hour. Not a solo activity, yes, but an activity widely available to every soloplayer

Get lvl 50 try to make some rp and experiance how often enemys vanish, then come back and we can talk.
Yes you are right im always very thankful i wasted my actives because then i finally have 15 min to do some housework before getting vanished again...
Tbh are you actually believing the bs you are talking?

you are just ignoring what i am saying...if you deem it bullshit and simply dismiss it i would advise reading what is actually standing there instead of going of off your biased assumptions. I bet you are thankful for not dieing when an assassin vanishes, instead of being dead and the assasin dancing on your dead body. Again, lets make vanish an offensive ability...tier it exactly like purge. Do you really believe the QQ would decrease when assassins start killing people instead of running away?

why do you assume that i do not have other characters?
My SB is 5L5, basically 100% solo, my warrior is RR5 (only about 3hours solo). Both have been vanished on, especially frustrating if you think you finally got one of the stealthzergers. I know that it can feel incredibly unfair, but it's a psychological problem that you think you would have won every fight against a vansihing assassin. Which is wrong. The Hunter was mentioned purely to show that even a unwanted class in groups that isn't maxlevel can get claws easily.


People like you, that like to attack a persons characters instead of the argument are the reason why i don't have my chars in my signature. I'll take it as a sign that you don't really have any argument to make, that's why you need to make up things and dismiss me because i "need to get a level 50". Pathetic
(it's kind of sad that someone reads such a low effort comment and feels it deserves a like )

id rathe be dead than wait 15 min for my actives to be up again. again... get your hunter to 50 play it and then we can talk again. its just stupid to claim that a class that has to rely on ip and purge can so easily be trolled by a 5 point ra, should be glad to not be dead after fireing actives and then get vanished..... vanish is just for teh lulz of assassins nothing more.

"People like you, that like to attack a persons characters instead of the argument are the reason why i don't have my chars in my signature. I'll take it as a sign that you don't really have any argument to make, that's why you need to make up things and dismiss me because i "need to get a level 50". Pathetic
(it's kind of sad that someone reads such a low effort comment and feels it deserves a like )" --> where did i attack you? do you mean when i said to tell BS? well if someone tells BS it must be allowed to say that it is BS... get over it and ask yourself why someone thinks your are telling BS. do me a favor and google "ad hominem". also claiming things you actually cant know because you dont even have a lvl 50 hunter yet, is just stupid.


btw to all you vanishclowns ---> die like men!
Thu 18 Apr 2019 9:03 AM by Sepplord
inoeth wrote:
Thu 18 Apr 2019 8:45 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:46 AM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 18 Apr 2019 7:19 AM
Get lvl 50 try to make some rp and experiance how often enemys vanish, then come back and we can talk.
Yes you are right im always very thankful i wasted my actives because then i finally have 15 min to do some housework before getting vanished again...
Tbh are you actually believing the bs you are talking?

you are just ignoring what i am saying...if you deem it bullshit and simply dismiss it i would advise reading what is actually standing there instead of going of off your biased assumptions. I bet you are thankful for not dieing when an assassin vanishes, instead of being dead and the assasin dancing on your dead body. Again, lets make vanish an offensive ability...tier it exactly like purge. Do you really believe the QQ would decrease when assassins start killing people instead of running away?

why do you assume that i do not have other characters?
My SB is 5L5, basically 100% solo, my warrior is RR5 (only about 3hours solo). Both have been vanished on, especially frustrating if you think you finally got one of the stealthzergers. I know that it can feel incredibly unfair, but it's a psychological problem that you think you would have won every fight against a vansihing assassin. Which is wrong. The Hunter was mentioned purely to show that even a unwanted class in groups that isn't maxlevel can get claws easily.


People like you, that like to attack a persons characters instead of the argument are the reason why i don't have my chars in my signature. I'll take it as a sign that you don't really have any argument to make, that's why you need to make up things and dismiss me because i "need to get a level 50". Pathetic
(it's kind of sad that someone reads such a low effort comment and feels it deserves a like )

id rathe be dead than wait 15 min for my actives to be up again. again... get your hunter to 50 play it and then we can talk again. its just stupid to claim that a class that has to rely on ip and purge can so easily be trolled by a 5 point ra, should be glad to not be dead after fireing actives and then get vanished..... vanish is just for teh lulz of assassins nothing more.

"People like you, that like to attack a persons characters instead of the argument are the reason why i don't have my chars in my signature. I'll take it as a sign that you don't really have any argument to make, that's why you need to make up things and dismiss me because i "need to get a level 50". Pathetic
(it's kind of sad that someone reads such a low effort comment and feels it deserves a like )" --> where did i attack you? do you mean when i said to tell BS? well if someone tells BS it must be allowed to say that it is BS... get over it and ask yourself why someone thinks your are telling BS. do me a favor and google "ad hominem". also claiming things you actually cant know because you dont even have a lvl 50 hunter yet, is just stupid.


btw to all you vanishclowns ---> die like men!

You'd rather be dead? That can be arranged...simply sit down if drawing a fight is so horrible to you
i am sure losing the fight doesn't reset your active-RA timers, they are gone either way. You deciding that you "have to wait 15minutes" is also your decision...and it doesn't change either way that your timers are gone. The difference is simply in one case you are dead, in the other you live and the assassin runs away. Mindboggling that you actually claim you would rather be dead...and you call MY comments bullshit


Getting my hunter to 50 and playing it will not change anything at all btw. The argument stands either way, and with the spec/playstyle i am planning to do on the hunter i will probably not be able to force an assassin into vanish. But they will have to find and catch me first. If i want to melee other assassins i'll do that on my assassin. You know, the stealthclass that specialises in melee combat
Thu 18 Apr 2019 9:18 AM by Sepplord
Btw. i took your advice and looked up ad hominem, despite being quite sure i didn't misuse it, but hey i am able to question myself.

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself

whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided

not going for the argument about the alternative of vanish being replaced by a combat-beneficial RA, seems to fulfill this requirement

instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument

telling me to first get my hunter to level50 and play it (me not having a 50hunter is an attribute of my person and not part of the discussion)




Textbook ad hominem as far as i am concerned

Younger folks might call it gatekeeping too nowadays...maybe that term is more to your liking
Thu 18 Apr 2019 9:23 AM by inoeth
dude i know its mentally challenging for you but its quite simple, let me explain for you slowly:

if i knew i get vanished, i would not fire my actives and just die. in that way i can safe my actives for a fight where it actually makes a difference using them.

i know there are many ppl out there who enjoy the pain of getting trololololed, you must be one of them. i dont like it, and as far as i know, many other ppl dont like it too.
also this is only an issue because stealth was gutted here, so actually vanish is something that kind of does not really work as intended and therefore needs a change.
but also be sure i understand you, you dont want to lose your trololo button on your sb, instead you spread rumors and tell ppl they must be glad to get vanished LOL

i stop answering you here since you only seem not to be interested in an enrichting conversation

just one more thing: "Younger folks might call it gatekeeping too nowadays...maybe that term is more to your liking" --> defame me here as a "younger person" is no ad hominem is it?
Thu 18 Apr 2019 9:54 AM by Sepplord
inoeth wrote:
Thu 18 Apr 2019 9:23 AM
dude i know its mentally challenging for you but its quite simple, let me explain for you slowly:

if i knew i get vanished, i would not fire my actives and just die. in that way i can safe my actives for a fight where it actually makes a difference using them.

i know there are many ppl out there who enjoy the pain of getting trololololed, you must be one of them. i dont like it, and as far as i know, many other ppl dont like it too.
also this is only an issue because stealth was gutted here, so actually vanish is something that kind of does not really work as intended and therefore needs a change.
but also be sure i understand you, you dont want to lose your trololo button on your sb, instead you spread rumors and tell ppl they must be glad to get vanished LOL

It's not mentally challenging...it's a quite easy topic. But you are gain moving the goalpost and doging the argument.

Yes, knowing the outcome of a battle would change a lot. I guess most people would not spend active RAs if they knew they would lose. That has nothing to do with vanish, and doesn't change the scenario i gave you at all. I personally wouldn't even take a fight that i will lose. How nice would it be to know that a fight is coming up that i would lose and then dodge the area completely... What kind of argument is that?
USing a long CD is always a gamble and can always turn out to not make a difference because of several reasons. Vanish is no special case in that regard.
If an assassin had an active that kills you instead of letting the sin run away, you ALSO wouldn't know if it is up or not, and would use your actives just to die and have them wasted.



PS: do you at least agree on the argentum ad hominem proof i delivered? Or are you simply ignoring that too?
Sat 20 Apr 2019 12:44 AM by dbeattie71
4 in a row :O

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqFv2h8BBVk
Sat 20 Apr 2019 3:20 AM by qq6
lol @ that vid, i died inside a bit.
Sat 20 Apr 2019 3:41 AM by djegu
LOL
Sat 20 Apr 2019 6:21 AM by Tarticus74
Don't have vanish and refuse to spec into it. I will fight and die like a man lol.

On a serious note I hit a couple of hib stealth other day and they insta vanished what's that all about hahaha.

And don't talk about the alb stealth zerg if it gets too much for them they just vanish or if they grouped with a mincer sos away lol.
Sat 20 Apr 2019 6:13 PM by dbeattie71
Tarticus74 wrote:
Sat 20 Apr 2019 6:21 AM
Don't have vanish and refuse to spec into it. I will fight and die like a man lol.

On a serious note I hit a couple of hib stealth other day and they insta vanished what's that all about hahaha.

And don't talk about the alb stealth zerg if it gets too much for them they just vanish or if they grouped with a mincer sos away lol.

Yeah, same on my shade, I'm to cheap to not spend those 5 points somewhere else plus fighting to the death is fine with me.
Sun 21 Apr 2019 7:24 PM by Flashrob
dbeattie71 wrote:
Sat 20 Apr 2019 6:13 PM
Tarticus74 wrote:
Sat 20 Apr 2019 6:21 AM
Don't have vanish and refuse to spec into it. I will fight and die like a man lol.

On a serious note I hit a couple of hib stealth other day and they insta vanished what's that all about hahaha.

And don't talk about the alb stealth zerg if it gets too much for them they just vanish or if they grouped with a mincer sos away lol.

Yeah, same on my shade, I'm to cheap to not spend those 5 points somewhere else plus fighting to the death is fine with me.

Idk, I think for most people it is not a matter of fighting to death or running away from duels. It is getting added on for which it is useful. Usually I use it either when I get added on or I just really cant get anything solo and I will do a risky 1v2/3 attack against the caster and then make my escape.
Sun 21 Apr 2019 9:53 PM by lipfy
i
Mon 22 Apr 2019 12:29 AM by dbeattie71
Flashrob wrote:
Sun 21 Apr 2019 7:24 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Sat 20 Apr 2019 6:13 PM
Tarticus74 wrote:
Sat 20 Apr 2019 6:21 AM
Don't have vanish and refuse to spec into it. I will fight and die like a man lol.

On a serious note I hit a couple of hib stealth other day and they insta vanished what's that all about hahaha.

And don't talk about the alb stealth zerg if it gets too much for them they just vanish or if they grouped with a mincer sos away lol.

Yeah, same on my shade, I'm to cheap to not spend those 5 points somewhere else plus fighting to the death is fine with me.

Idk, I think for most people it is not a matter of fighting to death or running away from duels. It is getting added on for which it is useful. Usually I use it either when I get added on or I just really cant get anything solo and I will do a risky 1v2/3 attack against the caster and then make my escape.

Yeah but getting added on is always going to happen, having it to avoid that once in a while doesn’t seem worth it to me, I’d rather spend them elsewhere.
Mon 22 Apr 2019 1:26 AM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Mon 22 Apr 2019 12:29 AM
Flashrob wrote:
Sun 21 Apr 2019 7:24 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Sat 20 Apr 2019 6:13 PM
Yeah, same on my shade, I'm to cheap to not spend those 5 points somewhere else plus fighting to the death is fine with me.

Idk, I think for most people it is not a matter of fighting to death or running away from duels. It is getting added on for which it is useful. Usually I use it either when I get added on or I just really cant get anything solo and I will do a risky 1v2/3 attack against the caster and then make my escape.

Yeah but getting added on is always going to happen, having it to avoid that once in a while doesn’t seem worth it to me, I’d rather spend them elsewhere.

and that is your choice. just because you chose not to spec it doesnt mean every other sin shouldnt get that same choice.
Mon 22 Apr 2019 1:59 AM by alusnova415
Isn't the point of Vanish to uhhh vanish? Just like healing is supposed to heal right? Or mezz ...well you get the point. The stealther doesn't get any rp for vanishing.

Seems to me is working as intended, you know get away. I never use it vs other stealth fights but save it to avoid the zerg.

And I don't get frustrated when someone vanishes on me .
Sat 4 May 2019 9:14 AM by Cadebrennus
It's been said before but it needs saying again. Make a requirement of Vanish that you need to have killed someone within 'x' amount of seconds ago in order to use Vanish. That way it is used in the way it is intended, not as an 'oops I fucked up and now I'm getting my ass kicked' button.
Sat 4 May 2019 9:43 AM by Taftaf
Nerf this newb RA devs pls, or give it to everyone then stealthers will feel the pain
Sat 4 May 2019 12:51 PM by Sindralor
Taftaf wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 9:43 AM
Nerf this newb RA devs pls, or give it to everyone then stealthers will feel the pain

I know its crazy but we get vanished on too, its not just 'visibles' -
Almost shocking right? bet you couldn't think that far
Mon 6 May 2019 10:29 AM by Sepplord
Taftaf wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 9:43 AM
Nerf this newb RA devs pls, or give it to everyone then stealthers will feel the pain

that would be wonderful...everyone would get to experience the sensation of vanishing away to then get beat down while being silenced and disarmed ^^
Or are you implying everyone gets free-full-spec-stealth after vanish superstealth fades too?

Cadebrennus wrote: That way it is used in the way it is intended

Weren't you normaly advocating for being careful about assuming intentions? Is there anything that hints at vanish being intended to be a get away after killing something RA?
In it's original version it allowed offensive actions after being used...which wouldn't be required in the situation of getting zerged after killing someone, so that imo hints more at the opposite of what you claim.
Mon 6 May 2019 10:45 AM by Cadebrennus
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 10:29 AM
Taftaf wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 9:43 AM
Nerf this newb RA devs pls, or give it to everyone then stealthers will feel the pain

that would be wonderful...everyone would get to experience the sensation of vanishing away to then get beat down while being silenced and disarmed ^^
Or are you implying everyone gets free-full-spec-stealth after vanish superstealth fades too?

Cadebrennus wrote: That way it is used in the way it is intended

Weren't you normaly advocating for being careful about assuming intentions? Is there anything that hints at vanish being intended to be a get away after killing something RA?
In it's original version it allowed offensive actions after being used...which wouldn't be required in the situation of getting zerged after killing someone, so that imo hints more at the opposite of what you claim.

I'm just vaguely remembering how it was described in a grab bag or patch notes or something. It's intention was never to bitch out of a fight that the Assassin started. However, abilities will be used in whatever way they can by the players, regardless of original intent unless you force the intention upon them (eg. Vanish only usable if your target dies.) Case in point: Ranger Speedburst is supposed to be a getaway tool, but 99% of the time I played Ranger (including live) I used it as a crappier version of Charge.
Mon 6 May 2019 11:43 AM by Druth
No idea why it's even a discussion.

Assassins are super popular, and despite what some people might be trying to tell themselves, I personally do not believe they are popular from being hard-core to play, but the contrary.
Mon 6 May 2019 12:25 PM by Sepplord
Druth wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 11:43 AM
No idea why it's even a discussion.

Assassins are super popular, and despite what some people might be trying to tell themselves, I personally do not believe they are popular from being hard-core to play, but the contrary.

they aren't popular because they are hard to play ^^ who made that argument?


they are popular because they are the only viable solo-classes for anyone that read a bit about archers before (i don't think it is THAT bad, but it surely looks like it for anyone looking for input on the forums)
Soloing on a visible is a hurdle, even if you have speed6. But Minstrels and skalds are still superpopular for the same reason: solo-viability
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