The continious disadvantage of Shadowblades

Started 2 Apr 2019
by armath
in Suggestions
Not long time ago, I made a post about the already excisting disadvantages of the shadowblade, and the urge for the addition of the blunt ability - to atleast create an even playing field - even if they added the ability to all assassins.

Instead of trying to balance the assassins, they have pulled the shadowblade even further away from the other two assassins, by removing the possbility to rotate dot poisons - which also at the same time, is making it very hard for assassins to deal with some visible shield tanks.

The most noticeable impact is surely against other assassins, who already have several obvious advantages over the SB, as pointed out here: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=35948&sid=02aa69fe6a28a139b65ec5faba2ee3e0#p35948

The Dot rotation was surely the SB "trick up the sleeve", allowing for guarenteed swings of the offhand to land dot poisons as a damage add - infact I personally made a Kobold shadowblade, just for double-cycling weapons each swing, at as fast swing speed as possible. And it worked to some extend, yet still equal ranked NS still had the clear advantage.

What the dot rotation meant for the shadowblade, was the possbility to go low LA spec, and higher CS., now we're at a point where there is only one way for the shadowblade, and that is to pile everything into LA - more the higher rank you are - and hope for good evade luck.

My suggestion to balance the assassins is to:

A) Reverse this change, and allow for dot rotation, lower the viper to old values - it brings in more skill to a fight. Its a "money pit" in both weapons and poisons, so good for the economy too. > This is not even a true balance, but atleast it gives those who want to try harder to win an option to do so.

B) Add the Blunt ability to shadowblades ( or all assassins ) > this would be a true equalizer, assassin vs. assassin.

C) Remove armor damage type vulnerabilities. > this would also be a true equalizer.

D) Introduce Legendary weapons > this would also be a true equalizer., and again add even more skill based decision making in fights., what weapon to use vs. what armor type etc.

E) Give kobold shadowblades a race respec since you are adding it to the game anyhow, and since you chose to render the race 100% useless with the dot change.

No matter what - something has to be done at this point.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:22 PM by Amp_Phetamine
You understand the "dot rotation" was unintended and intentionally fixed, right?

A - See above
B - This is up to the Devs and quite frankly has been beaten beyond death
C - Literally no reason to do this
D - Quite certain the Devs have stated they will not be introducing legendary weapons (needs verification)
E - You literally created your class with the intent to exploit the poison dot tick bug.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:26 PM by armath
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:22 PM
You understand the "dot rotation" was unintended and intentionally fixed, right?

A - See above
B - This is up to the Devs and quite frankly has been beaten beyond death
C - Literally no reason to do this
D - Quite certain the Devs have stated they will not be introducing legendary weapons (needs verification)
E - You literally created your class with the intent to exploit the poison dot tick bug.

"Unintended" - you do realise that people did this on Live too right - and still do most likely, those 15 people who play there... It was never "unintended", its a completely normal function of the game, which has always been specially good on a shadowblade, since the swing is guarenteed on the offhand.

Which class do you play?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:27 PM by Amp_Phetamine
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:26 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:22 PM
You understand the "dot rotation" was unintended and intentionally fixed, right?

A - See above
B - This is up to the Devs and quite frankly has been beaten beyond death
C - Literally no reason to do this
D - Quite certain the Devs have stated they will not be introducing legendary weapons (needs verification)
E - You literally created your class with the intent to exploit the poison dot tick bug.

"Unintended" - you do realise that people did this on Live too right - and still do most likely, those 15 people who play there... It was never "unintended", its a completely normal function of the game, which has always been specially good on a shadowblade, since the swing is guarenteed on the offhand.

Which class do you play?

Do you remember when toxic venom - which did essentially the same thing you were exploiting with life bane tick - was patched?

Edit: Just because I know you don't like to hear it but if the life bane reapplication dot tick was "working as intended" ... why was it patched and "fixed"?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:28 PM by armath
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:27 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:26 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:22 PM
You understand the "dot rotation" was unintended and intentionally fixed, right?

A - See above
B - This is up to the Devs and quite frankly has been beaten beyond death
C - Literally no reason to do this
D - Quite certain the Devs have stated they will not be introducing legendary weapons (needs verification)
E - You literally created your class with the intent to exploit the poison dot tick bug.

"Unintended" - you do realise that people did this on Live too right - and still do most likely, those 15 people who play there... It was never "unintended", its a completely normal function of the game, which has always been specially good on a shadowblade, since the swing is guarenteed on the offhand.

Which class do you play?

Do you remember when toxic venom - which did essentially the same thing you were exploiting with life bane tick - was patched?

What class do you play?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:31 PM by Amp_Phetamine
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:28 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:27 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:26 PM
"Unintended" - you do realise that people did this on Live too right - and still do most likely, those 15 people who play there... It was never "unintended", its a completely normal function of the game, which has always been specially good on a shadowblade, since the swing is guarenteed on the offhand.

Which class do you play?

Do you remember when toxic venom - which did essentially the same thing you were exploiting with life bane tick - was patched?

What class do you play?

Re-read my post, also you can see my main toon in my signature. The point you're trying to make is moot, however. It's one of the weakest counter arguments in use.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:35 PM by armath
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:31 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:28 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:27 PM
Do you remember when toxic venom - which did essentially the same thing you were exploiting with life bane tick - was patched?

What class do you play?

Re-read my post, also you can see my main toon in my signature. The point you're trying to make is moot, however. It's one of the weakest counter arguments in use.

You just turned everything upside down, rather than look constructively at the issue at hand, since there obviously is an issue in balance.This makes me thing that you most likely play an infiltrator too. But no worries.

What they should do - to "unbreak" the game from your point of view, since you think dot rotation is "unintended" - is to remove the ingame switch macro's

Why take skill out, and at the same time create even more unbalance?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:50 PM by Amp_Phetamine
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:35 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:31 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:28 PM
What class do you play?

Re-read my post, also you can see my main toon in my signature. The point you're trying to make is moot, however. It's one of the weakest counter arguments in use.

You just turned everything upside down, rather than look constructively at the issue at hand, since there obviously is an issue in balance.This makes me thing that you most likely play an infiltrator too. But no worries.

What they should do - to "unbreak" the game from your point of view, since you think dot rotation is "unintended" - is to remove the ingame switch macro's

Why take skill out, and at the same time create even more unbalance?

I wouldn't have any issue with /switch being removed. It allowed for a more streamline method to abuse the tick bug. That being said, the tick dps re-application was fixed.

Looking constructively I've addressed what shadow blades should earn in your previous thread. Bludgeon would help shadow blades against there primary difficult matchup in blade nightshades; however, it would also benefit them against the other crush vulnerable classes (is this necessary I ask?).

I don't think it's possible to remove armor resistance - only adjust them and even then I'm not sure how tasking of a process that'd be.

There wasn't any "skill" in rotating lifebane weapons for the additional dps. All assassins were abusing it and it was fixed accordingly.

The main problem I have is you're perpetuating an opinion to the point of determining it as fact. The facts are two-fold: 1. Shadow blades have a poor matchup against blade specced night shades. 2. Shadow blades are otherwise not struggling to perform well in the FZ.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:55 PM by armath
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:50 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:35 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:31 PM
Re-read my post, also you can see my main toon in my signature. The point you're trying to make is moot, however. It's one of the weakest counter arguments in use.

You just turned everything upside down, rather than look constructively at the issue at hand, since there obviously is an issue in balance.This makes me thing that you most likely play an infiltrator too. But no worries.

What they should do - to "unbreak" the game from your point of view, since you think dot rotation is "unintended" - is to remove the ingame switch macro's

Why take skill out, and at the same time create even more unbalance?

I wouldn't have any issue with /switch being removed. It allowed for a more streamline method to abuse the tick bug. That being said, the tick dps re-application was fixed.

Looking constructively I've addressed what shadow blades should earn in your previous thread. Bludgeon would help shadow blades against there primary difficult matchup in blade nightshades; however, it would also benefit them against the other crush vulnerable classes (is this necessary I ask?).

I don't think it's possible to remove armor resistance - only adjust them and even then I'm not sure how tasking of a process that'd be.

There wasn't any "skill" in rotating lifebane weapons for the additional dps. All assassins were abusing it and it was fixed accordingly.

The main problem I have is you're perpetuating an opinion to the point of determining it as fact. The facts are two-fold: 1. Shadow blades have a poor matchup against blade specced night shades. 2. Shadow blades are otherwise not struggling to perform well in the FZ.

So they should give the SB blunt that works only vs. assassin classes. Or do you have a better idea? There is too much trash spam in the other topic at this point to find anything useful.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:56 PM by Amp_Phetamine
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:55 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:50 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:35 PM
You just turned everything upside down, rather than look constructively at the issue at hand, since there obviously is an issue in balance.This makes me thing that you most likely play an infiltrator too. But no worries.

What they should do - to "unbreak" the game from your point of view, since you think dot rotation is "unintended" - is to remove the ingame switch macro's

Why take skill out, and at the same time create even more unbalance?

I wouldn't have any issue with /switch being removed. It allowed for a more streamline method to abuse the tick bug. That being said, the tick dps re-application was fixed.

Looking constructively I've addressed what shadow blades should earn in your previous thread. Bludgeon would help shadow blades against there primary difficult matchup in blade nightshades; however, it would also benefit them against the other crush vulnerable classes (is this necessary I ask?).

I don't think it's possible to remove armor resistance - only adjust them and even then I'm not sure how tasking of a process that'd be.

There wasn't any "skill" in rotating lifebane weapons for the additional dps. All assassins were abusing it and it was fixed accordingly.

The main problem I have is you're perpetuating an opinion to the point of determining it as fact. The facts are two-fold: 1. Shadow blades have a poor matchup against blade specced night shades. 2. Shadow blades are otherwise not struggling to perform well in the FZ.

So they should give the SB blunt that works only vs. assassin classes. Or do you have a better idea? There is too much trash spam in the other topic at this point to find anything useful.

If they're able to code it, sure, give it a try and see how it performs.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:12 PM by Riac
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:28 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:27 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:26 PM
"Unintended" - you do realise that people did this on Live too right - and still do most likely, those 15 people who play there... It was never "unintended", its a completely normal function of the game, which has always been specially good on a shadowblade, since the swing is guarenteed on the offhand.

Which class do you play?

Do you remember when toxic venom - which did essentially the same thing you were exploiting with life bane tick - was patched?

What class do you play?

ignore this dude, youll show him stats on how sbs are at a disadvantage and hell say its just you opinion and then he will give you his opinion (but his is more than an opinion).

as for what he plays lol. he is a merc with 550k rps, 200k of those 550 came from task rp. this dude has next to no experience in rvr here and even less experience on stealthers. he will say he has played everything over the years and therefore he knows everything.... just ignore him, he doesnt know shit.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:16 PM by phixion
I'm okay with the Lifebane fix, it was dumb to start off with so I'm glad it's no longer a part of the game.

I wouldn't be a fan of adding Legendary weapons, just because it adds yet another new thing to the game and potentially causes more headaches with templates. Mid already has the best weapon proc in the game (str/con).

I just think things needs to be evened up a bit when it comes to evade stuns. Either remove evade stuns that shouldn't be in the game or even it up across the board.

Played a Stealther many years and never saw the armour resist tables to be a problem, until now!
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:19 PM by Riac
phixion wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:16 PM
I'm okay with the Lifebane fix, it was dumb to start off with so I'm glad it's no longer a part of the game.

I wouldn't be a fan of adding Legendary weapons, just because it adds yet another new thing to the game and potentially causes more headaches with templates. Mid already has the best weapon proc in the game (str/con).

I just think things needs to be evened up a bit when it comes to evade stuns. Also, played a stealther many years and never saw the armour resist tables to be a problem, until now.

so are you saying the armor resist tables arent a problem here (ppl or making it into a problem, is what i meant by that) or that the 20% spread is too much and should be moved to a 10% spread like they did on live?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:21 PM by phixion
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:19 PM
so are you saying the armor resist tables arent a problem here or that the 20% spread is too much and should be moved to a 10% spread like they did on live?

I'm saying they are a problem, I mean I can spec 50LA and still only hit for 130 whilst I'm being hit for 170+.

It seems the advantages of Left Axe always swinging has been diminished here by DW/CD hitting more often than not, and when DW/CD does hit, it hits harder than my LA.

I wasn't aware they'd changed it on Live, but maybe that would be a good place to start?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:08 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:12 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:28 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:27 PM
Do you remember when toxic venom - which did essentially the same thing you were exploiting with life bane tick - was patched?

What class do you play?

ignore this dude, youll show him stats on how sbs are at a disadvantage and hell say its just you opinion and then he will give you his opinion (but his is more than an opinion).

as for what he plays lol. he is a merc with 550k rps, 200k of those 550 came from task rp. this dude has next to no experience in rvr here and even less experience on stealthers. he will say he has played everything over the years and therefore he knows everything.... just ignore him, he doesnt know shit.

You sure can't seem to ignore me though Riac. Clearly you've been affected, sorry I don't blindly agree with everything that is stated as "facts".
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:28 PM by chryso
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
Instead of trying to balance the assassins, they have pulled the shadowblade even further away from the other two assassins, by removing the possbility to rotate dot poisons - which also at the same time, is making it very hard for assassins to deal with some visible shield tanks.

LOL, an assassin should look at a shield tank as a death sentence. An assassin having a chance even against a low RR shield tank is outrageous and should never happen.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:32 PM by Riac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:08 PM
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:12 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:28 PM
What class do you play?

ignore this dude, youll show him stats on how sbs are at a disadvantage and hell say its just you opinion and then he will give you his opinion (but his is more than an opinion).

as for what he plays lol. he is a merc with 550k rps, 200k of those 550 came from task rp. this dude has next to no experience in rvr here and even less experience on stealthers. he will say he has played everything over the years and therefore he knows everything.... just ignore him, he doesnt know shit.

You sure can't seem to ignore me though Riac. Clearly you've been affected, sorry I don't blindly agree with everything that is stated as "facts".

just trying to give these guys a heads up about who they are talking with. youve accumulated a grand total of 350k rps - minus your welfare and yet you tell ppl that have more than triple your rps they dont know what is going on or they are wrong. quite rich imo.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:37 PM by armath
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:32 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:08 PM
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:12 PM
ignore this dude, youll show him stats on how sbs are at a disadvantage and hell say its just you opinion and then he will give you his opinion (but his is more than an opinion).

as for what he plays lol. he is a merc with 550k rps, 200k of those 550 came from task rp. this dude has next to no experience in rvr here and even less experience on stealthers. he will say he has played everything over the years and therefore he knows everything.... just ignore him, he doesnt know shit.

You sure can't seem to ignore me though Riac. Clearly you've been affected, sorry I don't blindly agree with everything that is stated as "facts".

just trying to give these guys a heads up about who they are talking with. youve accumulated a grand total of 350k rps - minus your welfare and yet you tell ppl that have more than triple your rps they dont know what is going on or they are wrong. quite rich imo.

Total RPS is not how you should measure a guys input tbh. Just look at Live, they listened to a small amount of players who played a lot, and that minority absolutely demolished the server. I didnt have any high Realm Rank, but I called it out many years before it happened, even warned their devs directly through emails etc.,

The devs gotta understand the game to make qualified decisions, so as long as there is constructive dialogue or inputs, im all for it.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 12:17 AM by Cirath
Completely dissagree that high LA is the only way to spec a SB here. You couldn't be more incorrect actually. In my experience high CS will out dps high LA on THIS SERVER every time. Garrote/achilles heel combo are better dps than doublefrost spam, and have added utility of a snare and atk speed debuff to boot. The hamstring off evade chain in CS is far and away the best dps you can do. It blows LA out of the water. The only benefit to LA is frosty gaze, but the stun isn't nearly as powerful here due to short cooldown purge, and typically just gives your opponent an opportunity to purge all your debuffs and REALLY put the hammer down on your sub optimal specc'd arse.

Did you have str/con, ws/con, str and disease stacked on that bladeshade Phix? I've only been hit that hard by hamstring chain by a blades user that hasn't been debuffed.
certainly not with an anytime by a debuffed opponent. Debuffed rangers and bladeshades typically hit me for 120-140ish. About as hard as I hit them when debuffed. Remember you have 200hp more than that bladeshade as well, even at 170 to your 130 it will take him 5 full rounds of combat to catch up to your initial HP advantage.

Again I think the balance here is fine. If you want to give SB an after evade stun 1st in the chain, go for it. Isn't going to matter much either way.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 1:01 AM by Luluko
chryso wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:28 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
Instead of trying to balance the assassins, they have pulled the shadowblade even further away from the other two assassins, by removing the possbility to rotate dot poisons - which also at the same time, is making it very hard for assassins to deal with some visible shield tanks.

LOL, an assassin should look at a shield tank as a death sentence. An assassin having a chance even against a low RR shield tank is outrageous and should never happen.

thats your opinion ... one arrow can kill a knight if it hits the right spot and so can a dagger, armors have weak points which can be exploited and if we want to make it really realistic any tank should have slower movement speed as an assassin lets see how you would like that + all the poisons LOL
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:38 AM by Cadebrennus
Cirath wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 12:17 AM
Completely dissagree that high LA is the only way to spec a SB here. You couldn't be more incorrect actually. In my experience high CS will out dps high LA on THIS SERVER every time. Garrote/achilles heel combo are better dps than doublefrost spam, and have added utility of a snare and atk speed debuff to boot. The hamstring off evade chain in CS is far and away the best dps you can do. It blows LA out of the water. The only benefit to LA is frosty gaze, but the stun isn't nearly as powerful here due to short cooldown purge, and typically just gives your opponent an opportunity to purge all your debuffs and REALLY put the hammer down on your sub optimal specc'd arse.

Did you have str/con, ws/con, str and disease stacked on that bladeshade Phix? I've only been hit that hard by hamstring chain by a blades user that hasn't been debuffed.
certainly not with an anytime by a debuffed opponent. Debuffed rangers and bladeshades typically hit me for 120-140ish. About as hard as I hit them when debuffed. Remember you have 200hp more than that bladeshade as well, even at 170 to your 130 it will take him 5 full rounds of combat to catch up to your initial HP advantage.

Again I think the balance here is fine. If you want to give SB an after evade stun 1st in the chain, go for it. Isn't going to matter much either way.

How dare you Cirath. Logic isn't allowed in this forum
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:57 AM by Slarsen2
Shadowblades are the strongest of All 3 assasiens by a mile, and they get even more op after rr7 scaling Wise. If anything they need a offhand dmg nerf
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:05 AM by sabyrtuth
Slarsen2 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:57 AM
Shadowblades are the strongest of All 3 assasiens by a mile, and they get even more op after rr7 scaling Wise. If anything they need a offhand dmg nerf

Agreed.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:09 AM by Riac
sabyrtuth wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:05 AM
Slarsen2 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:57 AM
Shadowblades are the strongest of All 3 assasiens by a mile, and they get even more op after rr7 scaling Wise. If anything they need a offhand dmg nerf

Agreed.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7183&start=190
yea they need an oh dmg nerf lol

check out the screenshots vs a r4 ranger.... aka someone who cant debuff your dmg. imagine if the sbs dmg was debuffed how much of a joke it would be.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:08 AM by Riac
i see gruen and uthred reading this forum at this very moment, would love some input.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:14 AM by Onnit
Please nerf SBs they are always number 1 stealthier in terms of class played. Maybe let them only use 2Her and take away stealth spec
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:50 AM by Dindelion
Imagine asking for buffs with vanish being in its current state
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:51 AM by Riac
Dindelion wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:50 AM
Imagine asking for buffs with vanish being in its current state

imagine having to 1v1 your peers with a 20% dmg spread.... they have vanish too.
the crux of this complaint is the dmg bonus on blades vs mid leather... it has nothing to do with vanish..... nice try though, your failure to understand the main issue is pretty outstanding.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 8:10 AM by Dindelion
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:51 AM
Dindelion wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:50 AM
Imagine asking for buffs with vanish being in its current state

imagine having to 1v1 your peers with a 20% dmg spread.... they have vanish too.
the crux of this complaint is the dmg bonus on blades vs mid leather... it has nothing to do with vanish..... nice try though, your failure to understand the main issue is pretty outstanding.

Ok, I'll break it down for you then. You wonder why devs don't give you an answer. That's because they can't buff any stealther right now, no matter how good the reason is because vanish is seen as a problem by every non stealther player basically. Even if you lose against other stealthers, your class is still a problem balance wise just because of this RA. If you buff SB to be more competitive against Inf / NS, you'll buff their competitiveness against EVERY other classes too, and no stealthers need that at the moment.
Nobody cares about your 1v1 against your "mirror" classes on the other realm, do you see merc / BM / zerk whine they can't kill each other in 1v1 ?
Basically for now it's "deal with it".
Is it better now ?
Wed 3 Apr 2019 8:34 AM by Riac
Dindelion wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 8:10 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:51 AM
Dindelion wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:50 AM
Imagine asking for buffs with vanish being in its current state

imagine having to 1v1 your peers with a 20% dmg spread.... they have vanish too.
the crux of this complaint is the dmg bonus on blades vs mid leather... it has nothing to do with vanish..... nice try though, your failure to understand the main issue is pretty outstanding.

Ok, I'll break it down for you then. You wonder why devs don't give you an answer. That's because they can't buff any stealther right now, no matter how good the reason isn because vanish is seen as a problem by every non stealther player basically. Even if you lose against other stealthers, your class is still a problem balance wise just because of this RA. If you buff SB to be more competitive against Inf / NS, you'll buff their competitiveness against EVERY other classes too, and no stealthers need that at the moment.
Nobody cares about your 1v1 against your "mirror" classes on the other realm, do you see merc / BM / zerk whine they can't kill each other in 1v1 ?
Basically for now it's "deal with it".
Is it better now ?

this is just a failure to understand the issues and the proposed fixes. for instance, it has been proposed to make mid leather not vulnerable to slash and would only be vs other stealthers (proposed by a gm). heaters (only useful vs leather wearers) aka stealthers, useless vs non stealthers. this issue has nothing to do with our matchups vs non stealthers. tbh idc abouth the match ups vs non stealthers, most of the time im not going to pop on a nonstealther light tank/heavy tank/ hybrid unless i have the clear advantage despite having vanish (most of the time its used to escape the zerg/ 8 man after killing a caster or other stealther) id rather not dump it on a solo visible i dont have a good chance vs anyways (by that i mean an equal rr visible char). you dont have a very good understanding about what is being complained about in this thread. 100% of it revolves around slash/blade weapons used by other stealthers on mid leather. it has nothing to do with vanish or match ups vs visible. most light tanks/ heavy tanks/ hybrids would do very well vs us no matter if we were crush vuln or slash vuln. i personally advocate for moving mid leather to crush vuln instead of slash vuln. most lw users in hib could just swap dmg type since they have access to both. mercs will still have dirty tricks. heavy tanks will still have slam (aka death sentence w/o purge no matter what weapon type they use) this has nothing to do with vanish. vanish does not win fights, it just allows you to live to fight another fight.
to say no one cares about the 1v1 fights with our counterparts in other realms is just not true, otherwise there would not be several threads with 20+ pages and one with 50+ and i do see zerks complaining all the time about mercs and bms getting access to 8 sec slam (so your point is not true in the slightest).
Wed 3 Apr 2019 9:20 AM by Sepplord
Dindelion wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 8:10 AM
Ok, I'll break it down for you then. You wonder why devs don't give you an answer. That's because they can't buff any stealther right now, no matter how good the reason isn because vanish is seen as a problem by every non stealther player basically. Even if you lose against other stealthers, your class is still a problem balance wise just because of this RA. If you buff SB to be more competitive against Inf / NS, you'll buff their competitiveness against EVERY other classes too, and no stealthers need that at the moment.

several solutions have been presented that would not influence anyone outside of assassins hitting assassins. Gruenesschaf has brainstormed ideas that wouldn't even impact assassins VS archers, but somehow you come here and dismiss the whole topic because every change would influence fights VS visibles

And people wonder why these threads reach 50+ pages and why arguments are repeated again and again. Well, if the discussions wouldn't permanently get derailed with offtopic/ignorant comments like this one less pages would be neccessary ^^
Wed 3 Apr 2019 12:01 PM by Padatoo
Oh God,its another sb thread
Wed 3 Apr 2019 1:41 PM by jelzinga_EU
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:50 PM
I don't think it's possible to remove armor resistance - only adjust them and even then I'm not sure how tasking of a process that'd be.

What makes you say stuff like this ? As someone unfamiliar with the code-base of DoL it took me less than 5 mins to find the responsible code. Equalizing all leather would take like 30 secs.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 1:45 PM by Amp_Phetamine
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 1:41 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:50 PM
I don't think it's possible to remove armor resistance - only adjust them and even then I'm not sure how tasking of a process that'd be.

What makes you say stuff like this ? As someone unfamiliar with the code-base of DoL it took me less than 5 mins to find the responsible code. Equalizing all leather would take like 30 secs.

Ah! Very nice. I'd send that information in to the Dev's then and ask them to make the changes as soon as possible
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 PM by Cadebrennus
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 8:34 AM
Dindelion wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 8:10 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:51 AM
imagine having to 1v1 your peers with a 20% dmg spread.... they have vanish too.
the crux of this complaint is the dmg bonus on blades vs mid leather... it has nothing to do with vanish..... nice try though, your failure to understand the main issue is pretty outstanding.

Ok, I'll break it down for you then. You wonder why devs don't give you an answer. That's because they can't buff any stealther right now, no matter how good the reason isn because vanish is seen as a problem by every non stealther player basically. Even if you lose against other stealthers, your class is still a problem balance wise just because of this RA. If you buff SB to be more competitive against Inf / NS, you'll buff their competitiveness against EVERY other classes too, and no stealthers need that at the moment.
Nobody cares about your 1v1 against your "mirror" classes on the other realm, do you see merc / BM / zerk whine they can't kill each other in 1v1 ?
Basically for now it's "deal with it".
Is it better now ?

this is just a failure to understand the issues and the proposed fixes. for instance, it has been proposed to make mid leather not vulnerable to slash and would only be vs other stealthers (proposed by a gm). heaters (only useful vs leather wearers) aka stealthers, useless vs non stealthers. this issue has nothing to do with our matchups vs non stealthers. tbh idc abouth the match ups vs non stealthers, most of the time im not going to pop on a nonstealther light tank/heavy tank/ hybrid unless i have the clear advantage despite having vanish (most of the time its used to escape the zerg/ 8 man after killing a caster or other stealther) id rather not dump it on a solo visible i dont have a good chance vs anyways (by that i mean an equal rr visible char). you dont have a very good understanding about what is being complained about in this thread. 100% of it revolves around slash/blade weapons used by other stealthers on mid leather. it has nothing to do with vanish or match ups vs visible. most light tanks/ heavy tanks/ hybrids would do very well vs us no matter if we were crush vuln or slash vuln. i personally advocate for moving mid leather to crush vuln instead of slash vuln. most lw users in hib could just swap dmg type since they have access to both. mercs will still have dirty tricks. heavy tanks will still have slam (aka death sentence w/o purge no matter what weapon type they use) this has nothing to do with vanish. vanish does not win fights, it just allows you to live to fight another fight.
to say no one cares about the 1v1 fights with our counterparts in other realms is just not true, otherwise there would not be several threads with 20+ pages and one with 50+ and i do see zerks complaining all the time about mercs and bms getting access to 8 sec slam (so your point is not true in the slightest).

It's not that there are bigger issues with 1v1s across the Assassin community and therefore there are more and longer threads. It's that for the most part these classes are played by neckbearded tryhards who whine the loudest. It was the exact same scenario on live. Unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and no wheel is squeakier than an Assassin player.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:39 PM by Sepplord
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 PM
It's not that there are bigger issues with 1v1s across the Assassin community and therefore there are more and longer threads. It's that for the most part these classes are played by neckbearded tryhards who whine the loudest. It was the exact same scenario on live. Unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and no wheel is squeakier than an Assassin player.

That sounds as if it makes sense, until you look around for the Infi/NS threads and notice they are non existant.
So, do you move the goalpost now and the neckbeard tryhards all flocked to midgard? Or is there an actual explanation why there are only SBs "whining"


No matter what you do, imo, writing generalizing insults doesn't make you look reasonable and whatever argument you might be making is being undermined. It's sad (though not surprising) that such a comment gets liked by anyone
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:57 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:39 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 PM
It's not that there are bigger issues with 1v1s across the Assassin community and therefore there are more and longer threads. It's that for the most part these classes are played by neckbearded tryhards who whine the loudest. It was the exact same scenario on live. Unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and no wheel is squeakier than an Assassin player.

That sounds as if it makes sense, until you look around for the Infi/NS threads and notice they are non existant.
So, do you move the goalpost now and the neckbeard tryhards all flocked to midgard? Or is there an actual explanation why there are only SBs "whining"


No matter what you do, imo, writing generalizing insults doesn't make you look reasonable and whatever argument you might be making is being undermined. It's sad (though not surprising) that such a comment gets liked by anyone

The "liking" part of the post was the truth of the statement: "It was the exact same scenario on live". I've stated that same thing multiple times as well. Assassins tend to be the most vocal group of players for what ever the reason may be, no other class/archtype gets as much attention built around them as assassins.

What I will continue to repeat is that Shadow Blades are deserving of a minor change, most certainly an off-evade stun style if anything at all. What isn't true is that shadow blades are struggling. They're clearly quite popular and, as others have stated, if they were truly a gimp class they'd be at the bottom of the /played toons, that is not the case.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:07 PM by Riac
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 8:34 AM
Dindelion wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 8:10 AM
Ok, I'll break it down for you then. You wonder why devs don't give you an answer. That's because they can't buff any stealther right now, no matter how good the reason isn because vanish is seen as a problem by every non stealther player basically. Even if you lose against other stealthers, your class is still a problem balance wise just because of this RA. If you buff SB to be more competitive against Inf / NS, you'll buff their competitiveness against EVERY other classes too, and no stealthers need that at the moment.
Nobody cares about your 1v1 against your "mirror" classes on the other realm, do you see merc / BM / zerk whine they can't kill each other in 1v1 ?
Basically for now it's "deal with it".
Is it better now ?

this is just a failure to understand the issues and the proposed fixes. for instance, it has been proposed to make mid leather not vulnerable to slash and would only be vs other stealthers (proposed by a gm). heaters (only useful vs leather wearers) aka stealthers, useless vs non stealthers. this issue has nothing to do with our matchups vs non stealthers. tbh idc abouth the match ups vs non stealthers, most of the time im not going to pop on a nonstealther light tank/heavy tank/ hybrid unless i have the clear advantage despite having vanish (most of the time its used to escape the zerg/ 8 man after killing a caster or other stealther) id rather not dump it on a solo visible i dont have a good chance vs anyways (by that i mean an equal rr visible char). you dont have a very good understanding about what is being complained about in this thread. 100% of it revolves around slash/blade weapons used by other stealthers on mid leather. it has nothing to do with vanish or match ups vs visible. most light tanks/ heavy tanks/ hybrids would do very well vs us no matter if we were crush vuln or slash vuln. i personally advocate for moving mid leather to crush vuln instead of slash vuln. most lw users in hib could just swap dmg type since they have access to both. mercs will still have dirty tricks. heavy tanks will still have slam (aka death sentence w/o purge no matter what weapon type they use) this has nothing to do with vanish. vanish does not win fights, it just allows you to live to fight another fight.
to say no one cares about the 1v1 fights with our counterparts in other realms is just not true, otherwise there would not be several threads with 20+ pages and one with 50+ and i do see zerks complaining all the time about mercs and bms getting access to 8 sec slam (so your point is not true in the slightest).

It's not that there are bigger issues with 1v1s across the Assassin community and therefore there are more and longer threads. It's that for the most part these classes are played by neckbearded tryhards who whine the loudest. It was the exact same scenario on live. Unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and no wheel is squeakier than an Assassin player.

being called a tryhard neckbeard by this guy is pretty lmao. these guides that you have posted are the epitome of tryhard. i dont see anything wrong with trying to minmax your char and looking at the numbers but there is certainly a bit of irony there.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:09 PM by Riac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:57 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:39 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 PM
It's not that there are bigger issues with 1v1s across the Assassin community and therefore there are more and longer threads. It's that for the most part these classes are played by neckbearded tryhards who whine the loudest. It was the exact same scenario on live. Unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and no wheel is squeakier than an Assassin player.

That sounds as if it makes sense, until you look around for the Infi/NS threads and notice they are non existant.
So, do you move the goalpost now and the neckbeard tryhards all flocked to midgard? Or is there an actual explanation why there are only SBs "whining"


No matter what you do, imo, writing generalizing insults doesn't make you look reasonable and whatever argument you might be making is being undermined. It's sad (though not surprising) that such a comment gets liked by anyone

The "liking" part of the post was the truth of the statement: "It was the exact same scenario on live". I've stated that same thing multiple times as well. Assassins tend to be the most vocal group of players for what ever the reason may be, no other class/archtype gets as much attention built around them as assassins.

What I will continue to repeat is that Shadow Blades are deserving of a minor change, most certainly an off-evade stun style if anything at all. What isn't true is that shadow blades are struggling. They're clearly quite popular and, as others have stated, if they were truly a gimp class they'd be at the bottom of the /played toons, that is not the case.

they are popular because mid is popular. if you want to play a sneak on your main realm (midgard) there is only one choice, shadowblade. being pigeon holed into one choice does not make it a good choice, especially when compared to its peers (the ns and inf), it just makes it the only choice.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:28 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:09 PM
they are popular because mid is popular. if you want to play a sneak on your main realm (midgard) there is only one choice, shadowblade. being pigeon holed into one choice does not make it a good choice, especially when compared to its peers (the ns and inf), it just makes it the only choice.

/smh oh boy. I find that logic to be flawed. You're telling me that people are forcing themselves to roll shadow blades and continue to play them, even though they're supposedly "under-performing" simply because midgard is a popular realm. That's hilarious. If shadow blades were so terrible people wouldn't play them regardless of whether or not midgard was the most popular realm.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:41 PM by Riac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:28 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:09 PM
they are popular because mid is popular. if you want to play a sneak on your main realm (midgard) there is only one choice, shadowblade. being pigeon holed into one choice does not make it a good choice, especially when compared to its peers (the ns and inf), it just makes it the only choice.

/smh oh boy. I find that logic to be flawed. You're telling me that people are forcing themselves to roll shadow blades and continue to play them, even though they're supposedly "under-performing" simply because midgard is a popular realm. That's hilarious. If shadow blades were so terrible people wouldn't play them regardless of whether or not midgard was the most popular realm.

hunters..... hunters are awful and ppl still play them. if you want to play an archer on midgard you have one choice and thats the hunter and it sure as shit doesnt make hunter a good class.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:52 PM by Bradekes
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:41 PM
hunters..... hunters are awful and ppl still play them. if you want to play an archer on midgard you have one choice and thats the hunter and it sure as shit doesnt make hunter a good class.

People play hunters yes.. But they are the least played class in midgard.. Do /who sb and /who hunter.. It proves people are less likely to play gimp classes..
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:57 PM by Riac
still disproves his point. hunter is a bad class and ppl continue to play it.

at this very moment they have 24 hunters online. thats more than savages (16) and the same number of zerkers (24) online. does that mean savage and zerkers are bad?
also, only 14 heroes and 13 pallys and arms online. your previous statement about them being the least played isnt quite panning out.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:05 PM by Mavella
ANOTHER thread? This must be the Twilight Zone!
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:18 PM by Bradekes
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:57 PM
still disproves his point. hunter is a bad class and ppl continue to play it.

How does it disprove his point exactly? You're taking his point too literal if you think that people playing hunter somehow is making his point invalid.. People simply do not gravitate towards difficult or unfavorable things, it's not natural.. If there is a healthy population of SB and a decent size group of people having high RR with that class it shows that it's not a difficult class that has consistently unfavorable interactions in RvR.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:23 PM by Riac
Bradekes wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:18 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:57 PM
still disproves his point. hunter is a bad class and ppl continue to play it.

How does it disprove his point exactly? You're taking his point too literal if you think that people playing hunter somehow is making his point invalid.. People simply do not gravitate towards difficult or unfavorable things, it's not natural.. If there is a healthy population of SB and a decent size group of people having high RR with that class it shows that it's not a difficult class that has consistently unfavorable interactions in RvR.

at this very moment they have 24 hunters online. thats more than savages (16) and the same number of zerkers (24) online. does that mean savage and zerkers are bad?
also, only 14 heroes and 13 pallys and arms online. your previous statement about them being the least played isnt quite panning out. do a /serverinfo for the numbers.

if youll look at his post he said ppl wouldnt continue to play a class if it were bad, i gave the example of hunters and how they are a bad class and yet ppl still play them. then you said they are the least played and they are not. im sorry if you cant follow the logic, maybe read it a couple of times out loud or ask a friend to explain it to you.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:26 PM by Bradekes
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:23 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:18 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:57 PM
still disproves his point. hunter is a bad class and ppl continue to play it.

How does it disprove his point exactly? You're taking his point too literal if you think that people playing hunter somehow is making his point invalid.. People simply do not gravitate towards difficult or unfavorable things, it's not natural.. If there is a healthy population of SB and a decent size group of people having high RR with that class it shows that it's not a difficult class that has consistently unfavorable interactions in RvR.

at this very moment they have 24 hunters online. thats more than savages (16) and the same number of zerkers (24) online. does that mean savage and zerkers are bad?
also, only 14 heroes and 13 pallys and arms online. your previous statement about them being the least played isnt quite panning out.

if youll look at his post he said ppl wouldnt continue to play a class if it were bad, i gave the example of hunters and how they are a bad class and yet ppl still play them. then you said they are the least played and they are not. im sorry if you cant follow the logic, maybe read it a couple of times out loud or ask a friend to explain it to you.

I like how you didn't include SB population.. And visible melee are not part of the meta.. It's all about caster groups.. SB are solo character along with hunter so them not being part of meta 8 man shouldn't affect their population.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:30 PM by Riac
Bradekes wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:26 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:23 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:18 PM
How does it disprove his point exactly? You're taking his point too literal if you think that people playing hunter somehow is making his point invalid.. People simply do not gravitate towards difficult or unfavorable things, it's not natural.. If there is a healthy population of SB and a decent size group of people having high RR with that class it shows that it's not a difficult class that has consistently unfavorable interactions in RvR.

at this very moment they have 24 hunters online. thats more than savages (16) and the same number of zerkers (24) online. does that mean savage and zerkers are bad?
also, only 14 heroes and 13 pallys and arms online. your previous statement about them being the least played isnt quite panning out.

if youll look at his post he said ppl wouldnt continue to play a class if it were bad, i gave the example of hunters and how they are a bad class and yet ppl still play them. then you said they are the least played and they are not. im sorry if you cant follow the logic, maybe read it a couple of times out loud or ask a friend to explain it to you.

I like how you didn't include SB population.. And visible melee are not part of the meta.. It's all about caster groups.. SB are solo character along with hunter so them not being part of meta 8 man shouldn't affect their population.

here we go, moving the goal posts...... first off id argue there is no 8 man meta, its a zerg meta and in a zerg anything goes but a caster is going to be the most fun.

sbs are lowest sins atm sbs 44, rangers 50, scout 38, inf 56, ns 67.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:38 PM by Cadebrennus
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:07 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 8:34 AM
this is just a failure to understand the issues and the proposed fixes. for instance, it has been proposed to make mid leather not vulnerable to slash and would only be vs other stealthers (proposed by a gm). heaters (only useful vs leather wearers) aka stealthers, useless vs non stealthers. this issue has nothing to do with our matchups vs non stealthers. tbh idc abouth the match ups vs non stealthers, most of the time im not going to pop on a nonstealther light tank/heavy tank/ hybrid unless i have the clear advantage despite having vanish (most of the time its used to escape the zerg/ 8 man after killing a caster or other stealther) id rather not dump it on a solo visible i dont have a good chance vs anyways (by that i mean an equal rr visible char). you dont have a very good understanding about what is being complained about in this thread. 100% of it revolves around slash/blade weapons used by other stealthers on mid leather. it has nothing to do with vanish or match ups vs visible. most light tanks/ heavy tanks/ hybrids would do very well vs us no matter if we were crush vuln or slash vuln. i personally advocate for moving mid leather to crush vuln instead of slash vuln. most lw users in hib could just swap dmg type since they have access to both. mercs will still have dirty tricks. heavy tanks will still have slam (aka death sentence w/o purge no matter what weapon type they use) this has nothing to do with vanish. vanish does not win fights, it just allows you to live to fight another fight.
to say no one cares about the 1v1 fights with our counterparts in other realms is just not true, otherwise there would not be several threads with 20+ pages and one with 50+ and i do see zerks complaining all the time about mercs and bms getting access to 8 sec slam (so your point is not true in the slightest).

It's not that there are bigger issues with 1v1s across the Assassin community and therefore there are more and longer threads. It's that for the most part these classes are played by neckbearded tryhards who whine the loudest. It was the exact same scenario on live. Unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and no wheel is squeakier than an Assassin player.

being called a tryhard neckbeard by this guy is pretty lmao. these guides that you have posted are the epitome of tryhard. i dont see anything wrong with trying to minmax your char and looking at the numbers but there is certainly a bit of irony there.

I knew I was going to anger tryhard neckbeards. Thank you for outing yourself to the community.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:53 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Riac is just an unhappy individual who blindly believes that the Earth is flat and Shadow Blades suck, there is no convincing him otherwise
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:55 PM by Mauriac
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 9:20 AM
Dindelion wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 8:10 AM
Ok, I'll break it down for you then. You wonder why devs don't give you an answer. That's because they can't buff any stealther right now, no matter how good the reason isn because vanish is seen as a problem by every non stealther player basically. Even if you lose against other stealthers, your class is still a problem balance wise just because of this RA. If you buff SB to be more competitive against Inf / NS, you'll buff their competitiveness against EVERY other classes too, and no stealthers need that at the moment.

several solutions have been presented that would not influence anyone outside of assassins hitting assassins. Gruenesschaf has brainstormed ideas that wouldn't even impact assassins VS archers, but somehow you come here and dismiss the whole topic because every change would influence fights VS visibles

And people wonder why these threads reach 50+ pages and why arguments are repeated again and again. Well, if the discussions wouldn't permanently get derailed with offtopic/ignorant comments like this one less pages would be neccessary ^^

I'd love a solution that only impacted assassin vs assassin.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:58 PM by Riac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:53 PM
Riac is just an unhappy individual who blindly believes that the Earth is flat and Shadow Blades suck, there is no convincing him otherwise

I like how I provided the numbers that didn't quite fit the narrative bradekes was trying to push so they resort to name calling.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:03 PM by Bradekes
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:58 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:53 PM
Riac is just an unhappy individual who blindly believes that the Earth is flat and Shadow Blades suck, there is no convincing him otherwise

I like how I provided the numbers that didn't quite fit the narrative bradekes was trying to push so they resort to name calling.

It still proves a point.. Too many playing skalds/BD to want to play stealthers IMO.. Midgard has lot's of solo class options.. But it still proves the point vs hunter, hunters are not very good so they don't get played SB are still played by a good amount so theres nothing showing that there's any extreme reason to make changes
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:12 PM by Riac
Bradekes wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:03 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:58 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:53 PM
Riac is just an unhappy individual who blindly believes that the Earth is flat and Shadow Blades suck, there is no convincing him otherwise

I like how I provided the numbers that didn't quite fit the narrative bradekes was trying to push so they resort to name calling.

It still proves a point.. Too many playing skalds/BD to want to play stealthers IMO.. Midgard has lot's of solo class options.. But it still proves the point vs hunter, hunters are not very good so they don't get played SB are still played by a good amount so theres nothing showing that there's any extreme reason to make changes

if you got back and look at the original post about ppl will not play a class that is not good and yet they are playing it, im sorry its not enough for you to deem considerable but ppl are playing it. as far as the sbs go they have a problem vs blades which our peers exploit against us and leaves us no recourse, that is the point of all these threads. not about wether classes fit the meta or w/e the fuck youre trying to move the goal posts to now. tbh none of yall except for the ranger guy calling ppl neckbeards (and im assuming hes playing a blade ranger) even plays a stealther so youre experience with stealther matchups on this server is limited to say the least.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:26 PM by Mavella
Well I just perused his ranger guide and he said he doesn't even play as of a week or two ago. I also hope all the rangers on this server follow his guide and spec like his terrible recommendations because it'll make my life as an SB significantly easier.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:30 PM by dbeattie71
Mavella wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:26 PM
Well I just perused his ranger guide and he said he doesn't even play as of a week or two ago. I also hope all the rangers on this server follow his guide and spec like his terrible recommendations because it'll make my life as an SB significantly easier.

You obviously didn't read the whole thread.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:31 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:12 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:03 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:58 PM
I like how I provided the numbers that didn't quite fit the narrative bradekes was trying to push so they resort to name calling.

It still proves a point.. Too many playing skalds/BD to want to play stealthers IMO.. Midgard has lot's of solo class options.. But it still proves the point vs hunter, hunters are not very good so they don't get played SB are still played by a good amount so theres nothing showing that there's any extreme reason to make changes

if you got back and look at the original post about ppl will not play a class that is not good and yet they are playing it, im sorry its not enough for you to deem considerable but ppl are playing it. as far as the sbs go they have a problem vs blades which our peers exploit against us and leaves us no recourse, that is the point of all these threads. not about wether classes fit the meta or w/e the fuck youre trying to move the goal posts to now. tbh none of yall except for the ranger guy calling ppl neckbeards (and im assuming hes playing a blade ranger) even plays a stealther so youre experience with stealther matchups on this server is limited to say the least.

What about those SB's that came out stating this entire concept was being blown out of proportion? Oh, yeah, they were micro-analyzed and had their opinions dismissed because of their herald stats...
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:34 PM by Mavella
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:30 PM
You obviously didn't read the whole thread.

Don't need to read it all to see its a rehash of the same parties making the same points over and over 70+ pages from the previous 2 threads.

What it doesn't change is that guys spec recommendations suck and I don't even play a ranger.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:34 PM by dbeattie71
Mavella wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:34 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:30 PM
You obviously didn't read the whole thread.

Don't need to read it all to see its a rehash of the same parties making the same points over and over 70+ pages from the previous 2 threads.

What it doesn't change is that guys spec recommendations suck and I don't even play a ranger.

Actually, that's what does change so yeah, didn't read.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 PM by Riac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:31 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:12 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:03 PM
It still proves a point.. Too many playing skalds/BD to want to play stealthers IMO.. Midgard has lot's of solo class options.. But it still proves the point vs hunter, hunters are not very good so they don't get played SB are still played by a good amount so theres nothing showing that there's any extreme reason to make changes

if you got back and look at the original post about ppl will not play a class that is not good and yet they are playing it, im sorry its not enough for you to deem considerable but ppl are playing it. as far as the sbs go they have a problem vs blades which our peers exploit against us and leaves us no recourse, that is the point of all these threads. not about wether classes fit the meta or w/e the fuck youre trying to move the goal posts to now. tbh none of yall except for the ranger guy calling ppl neckbeards (and im assuming hes playing a blade ranger) even plays a stealther so youre experience with stealther matchups on this server is limited to say the least.

What about those SB's that came out stating this entire concept was being blown out of proportion? Oh, yeah, they were micro-analyzed and had their opinions dismissed because of their herald stats...

The most recent one was the r4 sb that recently swapped from hunter. Considering he's played for one week give him some more time. The next one I remember off the top of my head was the guy that played an sb 2-3 times a week for an hour or two or w/e he said u believe he was also low rr. They weren't the best advocates for sbs are fine. Dig up the posts and we can go over it i guess.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:43 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 PM
The most recent one was the r4 sb that recently swapped from hunter. Considering he's played for one week give him some more time. The next one I remember off the top of my head was the guy that played an sb 2-3 times a week for an hour or two or w/e he said u believe he was also low rr. They weren't the best advocates for sbs are fine. Dig up the posts and we can go over it i guess.

Micro-analyzed .
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:43 PM by Mavella
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:34 PM
Actually, that's what does change so yeah, didn't read.

Yes because it's a waste of time unless the devs decide to add any more input. Until then, this dead horse has been pulverized.

Enjoy yourselves in the echo chamber though. I'm sure with all this inane bickering you'll break that 100 page threshold soon! What fun!
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:46 PM by dbeattie71
Mavella wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:43 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:34 PM
Actually, that's what does change so yeah, didn't read.

Yes because it's a waste of time unless the devs decide to add any more input. Until then, this dead horse has been pulverized.

Enjoy yourselves in the echo chamber though. I'm sure with all this inane bickering you'll break that 100 page threshold soon! What fun!

Ok, I'm not sure what you're talking about, I'm not complaining about anything.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:56 PM by Cirath
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:31 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:12 PM
if you got back and look at the original post about ppl will not play a class that is not good and yet they are playing it, im sorry its not enough for you to deem considerable but ppl are playing it. as far as the sbs go they have a problem vs blades which our peers exploit against us and leaves us no recourse, that is the point of all these threads. not about wether classes fit the meta or w/e the fuck youre trying to move the goal posts to now. tbh none of yall except for the ranger guy calling ppl neckbeards (and im assuming hes playing a blade ranger) even plays a stealther so youre experience with stealther matchups on this server is limited to say the least.

What about those SB's that came out stating this entire concept was being blown out of proportion? Oh, yeah, they were micro-analyzed and had their opinions dismissed because of their herald stats...

The most recent one was the r4 sb that recently swapped from hunter. Considering he's played for one week give him some more time. The next one I remember off the top of my head was the guy that played an sb 2-3 times a week for an hour or two or w/e he said u believe he was also low rr. They weren't the best advocates for sbs are fine. Dig up the posts and we can go over it i guess.

That doesn't account for me. I'm RR6 and have played SB and Nightshade since launch. I think they are fine. This is one persons opinion, but don't lump me in as someone with little stealther experience.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:57 PM by Riac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:43 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 PM
The most recent one was the r4 sb that recently swapped from hunter. Considering he's played for one week give him some more time. The next one I remember off the top of my head was the guy that played an sb 2-3 times a week for an hour or two or w/e he said u believe he was also low rr. They weren't the best advocates for sbs are fine. Dig up the posts and we can go over it i guess.

Micro-analyzed .

He didnt provide anything of merit, he said he casually plays and thinks it's fine... not exactly proof of anything. Esp when ppl who play more than casually have said otherwise and provided screenshots.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:58 PM by Riac
Cirath wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:56 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:31 PM
What about those SB's that came out stating this entire concept was being blown out of proportion? Oh, yeah, they were micro-analyzed and had their opinions dismissed because of their herald stats...

The most recent one was the r4 sb that recently swapped from hunter. Considering he's played for one week give him some more time. The next one I remember off the top of my head was the guy that played an sb 2-3 times a week for an hour or two or w/e he said u believe he was also low rr. They weren't the best advocates for sbs are fine. Dig up the posts and we can go over it i guess.

That doesn't account for me. I'm RR6 and have played SB and Nightshade since launch. I think they are fine. This is one persons opinion, but don't lump me in as someone with little stealther experience.

R6 on ns and sb? Is your shade blades?
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:03 PM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:09 AM
sabyrtuth wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:05 AM
Slarsen2 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:57 AM
Shadowblades are the strongest of All 3 assasiens by a mile, and they get even more op after rr7 scaling Wise. If anything they need a offhand dmg nerf

Agreed.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7183&start=190
yea they need an oh dmg nerf lol

check out the screenshots vs a r4 ranger.... aka someone who cant debuff your dmg. imagine if the sbs dmg was debuffed how much of a joke it would be.

Beast mode!
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:05 PM by Cirath
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:58 PM
Cirath wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:56 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 PM
The most recent one was the r4 sb that recently swapped from hunter. Considering he's played for one week give him some more time. The next one I remember off the top of my head was the guy that played an sb 2-3 times a week for an hour or two or w/e he said u believe he was also low rr. They weren't the best advocates for sbs are fine. Dig up the posts and we can go over it i guess.

That doesn't account for me. I'm RR6 and have played SB and Nightshade since launch. I think they are fine. This is one persons opinion, but don't lump me in as someone with little stealther experience.

R6 on ns and sb? Is your shade blades?

RR6 on SB, RR5 on NS. Yes, shade is blades.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:15 PM by Riac
Cirath wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:05 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:58 PM
Cirath wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:56 PM
That doesn't account for me. I'm RR6 and have played SB and Nightshade since launch. I think they are fine. This is one persons opinion, but don't lump me in as someone with little stealther experience.

R6 on ns and sb? Is your shade blades?

RR6 on SB, RR5 on NS. Yes, shade is


Do you do dmg to sbs like the r4 ranger in these ss? I know the SB is hitting ri in this instance.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7183&start=190
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:15 PM by Mavella
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:46 PM
Ok, I'm not sure what you're talking about, I'm not complaining about anything.

I'm clearly not referring to you when I'm talking about the complainers, [love].

Nothing new in this thread hasn't been discussed already, its still the same.

Evade stuns
LA/DW/CD
Starting stats
Armor tables
Shard skin pots
Legendary weapons
People playing dumb ass specs.
Blah blah blah

It's all the same crap and the same like 8-10 bleeting back and forth that about the same stupid shit for over 80 pages now.

It's obvious SBs can be successful but everything has to go right for them to win vs slash/blades users if they are equal RR and know how to play. I don't feel like I've ever been completely blown out of the water in any fight unless I eat perf/cd or against a intelligently specced ranger with RAs up.

The only major change I'd like to see for SBs is 1 off evade stun to at least be an option at lower spec level than 34axe/39sword since inf/ns recieved a lot of new options with the style rework and SBs got nothing they didn't already have.

And here I am caught up in it again. Great!
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:44 PM by dbeattie71
Mavella wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:15 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:46 PM
Ok, I'm not sure what you're talking about, I'm not complaining about anything.

I'm clearly not referring to you when I'm talking about the complainers you mongoloid.

Nothing new in this thread hasn't been discussed already, its still the same.

Evade stuns
LA/DW/CD
Starting stats
Armor tables
Shard skin pots
Legendary weapons
People playing dumb ass specs.
Blah blah blah

It's all the same crap and the same like 8-10 bleeting back and forth that about the same stupid shit for over 80 pages now.

It's obvious SBs can be successful but everything has to go right for them to win vs slash/blades users if they are equal RR and know how to play. I don't feel like I've ever been completely blown out of the water in any fight unless I eat perf/cd or against a intelligently specced ranger with RAs up.

The only major change I'd like to see for SBs is 1 off evade stun to at least be an option at lower spec level than 34axe/39sword since inf/ns recieved a lot of new options with the style rework and SBs got nothing they didn't already have.

And here I am caught up in it again. Great!

No need for personal attacks but if makes you feel better, fire away.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:52 PM by Mauriac
Mavella wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:15 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:46 PM
Ok, I'm not sure what you're talking about, I'm not complaining about anything.

I'm clearly not referring to you when I'm talking about the complainers you mongoloid.

Nothing new in this thread hasn't been discussed already, its still the same.

Evade stuns
LA/DW/CD
Starting stats
Armor tables
Shard skin pots
Legendary weapons
People playing dumb ass specs.
Blah blah blah

It's all the same crap and the same like 8-10 bleeting back and forth that about the same stupid shit for over 80 pages now.

It's obvious SBs can be successful but everything has to go right for them to win vs slash/blades users if they are equal RR and know how to play. I don't feel like I've ever been completely blown out of the water in any fight unless I eat perf/cd or against a intelligently specced ranger with RAs up.

The only major change I'd like to see for SBs is 1 off evade stun to at least be an option at lower spec level than 34axe/39sword since inf/ns recieved a lot of new options with the style rework and SBs got nothing they didn't already have.

And here I am caught up in it again. Great!

Welcome back
Wed 3 Apr 2019 10:13 PM by Sepplord
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:55 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 9:20 AM
I'd love a solution that only impacted assassin vs assassin.

Someone else literally gave you ,personally, examples that had been proposed directly after you posted how it would ruin all other matchups


I Really dont feel like repearing them since you apparently only skim the Comments. Search for gruenesschaf s comments in the stealtherthread if that Interest is honest
Wed 3 Apr 2019 10:18 PM by Mauriac
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 10:13 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:55 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 9:20 AM
I'd love a solution that only impacted assassin vs assassin.

Someone else literally gave you ,personally, examples that had been proposed directly after you posted how it would ruin all other matchups


I Really dont feel like repearing them since you apparently only skim the Comments. Search for gruenesschaf s comments in the stealtherthread if that Interest is honest

If you're talking about the armor table adjustment only between assassins yes. If you're talking about the legendary weapons only for sneak fights I'd say no.

Why the vitriol? There are 4 threads on this topic at near 200 total pages combined. Maybe you can remember everything that everyone's written in all of them but I can't.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 10:28 PM by Sepplord
You made comment and someone replied in the next comment giving examples you missed...

Feels more like a taunt than honesty when you then quote me and say you would be interested in hearing solutions.

And yes, there are so many pages about this because people keep joining the discussion and "restarting" it. They see the many pages and think: "my opinion and concerns are probably new and have not yet been adressed" instead of reading what already was discussed
Wed 3 Apr 2019 10:31 PM by Mauriac
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 10:28 PM
You made comment and someone replied in the next comment giving examples you missed...

Feels more like a taunt than honesty when you then quote me and say you would be interested in hearing solutions.

And yes, there are so many pages about this because people keep joining the discussion and "restarting" it

I'm not taunting you. I agree, there are several solutions out there that I think are worth looking into. Armor tables only between sneaks being one of the least invasive for the broader game and therefore one of the better ones. I assumed you were either referring to that but there was the potential it was one I hadn't heard yet.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:46 AM by Mauriac
There is a way to equalize this out a bit without a drastic change.

Part 1: make mid leather 5% weak to slash instead of 10
Part 2: make hib leather / studded 5% resistant to slash instead of 10
Part 3: make mid leather 5% resistant to thrust instead of 10.
Part 4: give SB a 4 sec 1 part off evade stun in LA

That's my current recommendation. Bring the flames
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:39 AM by Peister
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:46 AM
There is a way to equalize this out a bit without a drastic change.

Part 1: make mid leather 5% weak to slash instead of 10
Part 2: make hib leather / studded 5% resistant to slash instead of 10
Part 3: make mid leather 5% resistant to thrust instead of 10.
Part 4: give SB a 4 sec 1 part off evade stun in LA

That's my current recommendation. Bring the flames

Actually is some good idears there, but why not make alb leather 5% too? Then you put thrust infils in the current sb spot, you need to see things in a bigger and more objective perspektive!
but be careful w going down the custom highway, things can go over Board really fast! Now lets change vanish and purge to a 30min timer shall we 😁👌
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:38 PM by jvilarova
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
Not long time ago, I made a post about the already excisting disadvantages of the shadowblade, and the urge for the addition of the blunt ability - to atleast create an even playing field - even if they added the ability to all assassins.

Instead of trying to balance the assassins, they have pulled the shadowblade even further away from the other two assassins, by removing the possbility to rotate dot poisons - which also at the same time, is making it very hard for assassins to deal with some visible shield tanks.

The most noticeable impact is surely against other assassins, who already have several obvious advantages over the SB, as pointed out here: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=35948&sid=02aa69fe6a28a139b65ec5faba2ee3e0#p35948

The Dot rotation was surely the SB "trick up the sleeve", allowing for guarenteed swings of the offhand to land dot poisons as a damage add - infact I personally made a Kobold shadowblade, just for double-cycling weapons each swing, at as fast swing speed as possible. And it worked to some extend, yet still equal ranked NS still had the clear advantage.

What the dot rotation meant for the shadowblade, was the possbility to go low LA spec, and higher CS., now we're at a point where there is only one way for the shadowblade, and that is to pile everything into LA - more the higher rank you are - and hope for good evade luck.

My suggestion to balance the assassins is to:

A) Reverse this change, and allow for dot rotation, lower the viper to old values - it brings in more skill to a fight. Its a "money pit" in both weapons and poisons, so good for the economy too. > This is not even a true balance, but atleast it gives those who want to try harder to win an option to do so.

B) Add the Blunt ability to shadowblades ( or all assassins ) > this would be a true equalizer, assassin vs. assassin.

C) Remove armor damage type vulnerabilities. > this would also be a true equalizer.

D) Introduce Legendary weapons > this would also be a true equalizer., and again add even more skill based decision making in fights., what weapon to use vs. what armor type etc.

E) Give kobold shadowblades a race respec since you are adding it to the game anyhow, and since you chose to render the race 100% useless with the dot change.

No matter what - something has to be done at this point.

Just the fact that you asked to remove armor type vulnerabilities let's me know you just want everything to be ez mode and not have to actually think in this game. I thinkyou should just take a step back and rethink your strategies when it comes to fighting assassins.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:44 PM by Amp_Phetamine
I am very much against altering armor resistances for assassins only. There is no reason I should hit an assassin for less damage with my Mercenary simply because blade nightshades are difficult for shadow blades.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:45 PM by Mauriac
Peister wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:39 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:46 AM
There is a way to equalize this out a bit without a drastic change.

Part 1: make mid leather 5% weak to slash instead of 10
Part 2: make hib leather / studded 5% resistant to slash instead of 10
Part 3: make mid leather 5% resistant to thrust instead of 10.
Part 4: give SB a 4 sec 1 part off evade stun in LA

That's my current recommendation. Bring the flames

Actually is some good idears there, but why not make alb leather 5% too? Then you put thrust infils in the current sb spot, you need to see things in a bigger and more objective perspektive!
but be careful w going down the custom highway, things can go over Board really fast! Now lets change vanish and purge to a 30min timer shall we 😁👌

Yes and no. Thrust infs would be at a 5% disadvantage against SBs under this instead of the current 10. They also have access to 6 and 9 second off evade stuns not to mention better tables vs chain wearers. Either way I think if the slash tables were gonna be modified it would need to be done for thrust too because otherwise they would be in a bad spot.

I'm all for 30 min OF purge. I'm sure every scout would love it too

Vanish I'm torn on. Double PA would be nice but instant amnesia is aids and vanish saves me from that a lot
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:47 PM by Mauriac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:44 PM
I am very much against altering armor resistances for assassins only. There is no reason I should hit an assassin for less damage with my Mercenary simply because blade nightshades are difficult for shadow blades.

I love when you jump in because you almost never fail to misinterpret stuff. The whole point of it being assassin only is that the tables I proposed would only apply between stealth users. Your slash merc and the ebola that is dirty tricks would still have the full damage advantage. You wouldn't notice a difference
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:50 PM by Peister
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:47 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:44 PM
I am very much against altering armor resistances for assassins only. There is no reason I should hit an assassin for less damage with my Mercenary simply because blade nightshades are difficult for shadow blades.

I love when you jump in because you almost never fail to misinterpret stuff. The whole point of it being assassin only is that the tables I proposed would only apply between stealth users. Your slash merc and the ebola that is dirty tricks would still have the full damage advantage. You wouldn't notice a difference

Mau you only see it from a SB point of view, you need to widen your horizon!
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:51 PM by nixxo87
30+% evade being able to 2h perf and hitting harder than my 2h scythe, just shut up already.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:52 PM by armath
jvilarova wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:38 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
Not long time ago, I made a post about the already excisting disadvantages of the shadowblade, and the urge for the addition of the blunt ability - to atleast create an even playing field - even if they added the ability to all assassins.

Instead of trying to balance the assassins, they have pulled the shadowblade even further away from the other two assassins, by removing the possbility to rotate dot poisons - which also at the same time, is making it very hard for assassins to deal with some visible shield tanks.

The most noticeable impact is surely against other assassins, who already have several obvious advantages over the SB, as pointed out here: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=35948&sid=02aa69fe6a28a139b65ec5faba2ee3e0#p35948

The Dot rotation was surely the SB "trick up the sleeve", allowing for guarenteed swings of the offhand to land dot poisons as a damage add - infact I personally made a Kobold shadowblade, just for double-cycling weapons each swing, at as fast swing speed as possible. And it worked to some extend, yet still equal ranked NS still had the clear advantage.

What the dot rotation meant for the shadowblade, was the possbility to go low LA spec, and higher CS., now we're at a point where there is only one way for the shadowblade, and that is to pile everything into LA - more the higher rank you are - and hope for good evade luck.

My suggestion to balance the assassins is to:

A) Reverse this change, and allow for dot rotation, lower the viper to old values - it brings in more skill to a fight. Its a "money pit" in both weapons and poisons, so good for the economy too. > This is not even a true balance, but atleast it gives those who want to try harder to win an option to do so.

B) Add the Blunt ability to shadowblades ( or all assassins ) > this would be a true equalizer, assassin vs. assassin.

C) Remove armor damage type vulnerabilities. > this would also be a true equalizer.

D) Introduce Legendary weapons > this would also be a true equalizer., and again add even more skill based decision making in fights., what weapon to use vs. what armor type etc.

E) Give kobold shadowblades a race respec since you are adding it to the game anyhow, and since you chose to render the race 100% useless with the dot change.

No matter what - something has to be done at this point.

Just the fact that you asked to remove armor type vulnerabilities let's me know you just want everything to be ez mode and not have to actually think in this game. I thinkyou should just take a step back and rethink your strategies when it comes to fighting assassins.


A lot of other suggestions has been made, as I ended my initial topic with - no matter what - something has to be done. I think the best suggestions so far are the ones concerning the resist tables., and as was stated, they are easy to change in the code - so its easy to test.

Do you really think that it is fine that in a fight between a shadowblade and a nightshade, that the difference in damage received is a wooping 20% ? It is litterally a free 10% melee resist (Physical Defense 5) + a base 10% dmg bonus + they are having even more benefits, like direct evade stun.

On SB you are lucky if you get the stun off when fighting inf/ns due to the followup. This is not about getting EZ mode - this is about getting an even playing field. Im also an advocate for removing the swap commands for instance.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:54 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:47 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:44 PM
I am very much against altering armor resistances for assassins only. There is no reason I should hit an assassin for less damage with my Mercenary simply because blade nightshades are difficult for shadow blades.

I love when you jump in because you almost never fail to misinterpret stuff. The whole point of it being assassin only is that the tables I proposed would only apply between stealth users. Your slash merc and the ebola that is dirty tricks would still have the full damage advantage. You wouldn't notice a difference

Good, the majority of my solo kills is against foolish sins that think they stand a chance. I want to keep it that way
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:57 PM by Mauriac
Peister wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:50 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:47 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:44 PM
I am very much against altering armor resistances for assassins only. There is no reason I should hit an assassin for less damage with my Mercenary simply because blade nightshades are difficult for shadow blades.

I love when you jump in because you almost never fail to misinterpret stuff. The whole point of it being assassin only is that the tables I proposed would only apply between stealth users. Your slash merc and the ebola that is dirty tricks would still have the full damage advantage. You wouldn't notice a difference

Mau you only see it from a SB point of view, you need to widen your horizon!

I disagree. I was always an inf main before. And I'm working on one here so I understand how this goes
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:59 PM by Mauriac
nixxo87 wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
30+% evade being able to 2h perf and hitting harder than my 2h scythe, just shut up already.

Who dis? Run buffs? Why are you here? Reading comprehension ftw?
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:03 PM by Peister
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:52 PM
jvilarova wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:38 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
Not long time ago, I made a post about the already excisting disadvantages of the shadowblade, and the urge for the addition of the blunt ability - to atleast create an even playing field - even if they added the ability to all assassins.

Instead of trying to balance the assassins, they have pulled the shadowblade even further away from the other two assassins, by removing the possbility to rotate dot poisons - which also at the same time, is making it very hard for assassins to deal with some visible shield tanks.

The most noticeable impact is surely against other assassins, who already have several obvious advantages over the SB, as pointed out here: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=35948&sid=02aa69fe6a28a139b65ec5faba2ee3e0#p35948

The Dot rotation was surely the SB "trick up the sleeve", allowing for guarenteed swings of the offhand to land dot poisons as a damage add - infact I personally made a Kobold shadowblade, just for double-cycling weapons each swing, at as fast swing speed as possible. And it worked to some extend, yet still equal ranked NS still had the clear advantage.

What the dot rotation meant for the shadowblade, was the possbility to go low LA spec, and higher CS., now we're at a point where there is only one way for the shadowblade, and that is to pile everything into LA - more the higher rank you are - and hope for good evade luck.

My suggestion to balance the assassins is to:

A) Reverse this change, and allow for dot rotation, lower the viper to old values - it brings in more skill to a fight. Its a "money pit" in both weapons and poisons, so good for the economy too. > This is not even a true balance, but atleast it gives those who want to try harder to win an option to do so.

B) Add the Blunt ability to shadowblades ( or all assassins ) > this would be a true equalizer, assassin vs. assassin.

C) Remove armor damage type vulnerabilities. > this would also be a true equalizer.

D) Introduce Legendary weapons > this would also be a true equalizer., and again add even more skill based decision making in fights., what weapon to use vs. what armor type etc.

E) Give kobold shadowblades a race respec since you are adding it to the game anyhow, and since you chose to render the race 100% useless with the dot change.

No matter what - something has to be done at this point.

Just the fact that you asked to remove armor type vulnerabilities let's me know you just want everything to be ez mode and not have to actually think in this game. I thinkyou should just take a step back and rethink your strategies when it comes to fighting assassins.


A lot of other suggestions has been made, as I ended my initial topic with - no matter what - something has to be done. I think the best suggestions so far are the ones concerning the resist tables., and as was stated, they are easy to change in the code - so its easy to test.

Do you really think that it is fine that in a fight between a shadowblade and a nightshade, that the difference in damage received is a wooping 20% ? It is litterally a free 10% melee resist (Physical Defense 5) + a base 10% dmg bonus + they are having even more benefits, like direct evade stun.

On SB you are lucky if you get the stun off when fighting inf/ns due to the followup. This is not about getting EZ mode - this is about getting an even playing field. Im also an advocate for removing the swap commands for instance.

You mix things up again, first you talk about how unfair ns 20% diff is, Then you talk about inf sb fight! Slash infi have the exact same problem as sb does VS ns, do you see a single cry post here, it is like a disease to the sb community, use the tools you are given, and No i wont tell what you are missing, play the game and go figure out! Instead of crying for easymode!
I got killed by a rr4 sb 2 times yesterday, name was dandere, mb you should ask him what you are missing 😉
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:05 PM by jvilarova
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:52 PM
jvilarova wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:38 PM
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
Not long time ago, I made a post about the already excisting disadvantages of the shadowblade, and the urge for the addition of the blunt ability - to atleast create an even playing field - even if they added the ability to all assassins.

Instead of trying to balance the assassins, they have pulled the shadowblade even further away from the other two assassins, by removing the possbility to rotate dot poisons - which also at the same time, is making it very hard for assassins to deal with some visible shield tanks.

The most noticeable impact is surely against other assassins, who already have several obvious advantages over the SB, as pointed out here: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=35948&sid=02aa69fe6a28a139b65ec5faba2ee3e0#p35948

The Dot rotation was surely the SB "trick up the sleeve", allowing for guarenteed swings of the offhand to land dot poisons as a damage add - infact I personally made a Kobold shadowblade, just for double-cycling weapons each swing, at as fast swing speed as possible. And it worked to some extend, yet still equal ranked NS still had the clear advantage.

What the dot rotation meant for the shadowblade, was the possbility to go low LA spec, and higher CS., now we're at a point where there is only one way for the shadowblade, and that is to pile everything into LA - more the higher rank you are - and hope for good evade luck.

My suggestion to balance the assassins is to:

A) Reverse this change, and allow for dot rotation, lower the viper to old values - it brings in more skill to a fight. Its a "money pit" in both weapons and poisons, so good for the economy too. > This is not even a true balance, but atleast it gives those who want to try harder to win an option to do so.

B) Add the Blunt ability to shadowblades ( or all assassins ) > this would be a true equalizer, assassin vs. assassin.

C) Remove armor damage type vulnerabilities. > this would also be a true equalizer.

D) Introduce Legendary weapons > this would also be a true equalizer., and again add even more skill based decision making in fights., what weapon to use vs. what armor type etc.

E) Give kobold shadowblades a race respec since you are adding it to the game anyhow, and since you chose to render the race 100% useless with the dot change.

No matter what - something has to be done at this point.

Just the fact that you asked to remove armor type vulnerabilities let's me know you just want everything to be ez mode and not have to actually think in this game. I thinkyou should just take a step back and rethink your strategies when it comes to fighting assassins.


A lot of other suggestions has been made, as I ended my initial topic with - no matter what - something has to be done. I think the best suggestions so far are the ones concerning the resist tables., and as was stated, they are easy to change in the code - so its easy to test.

Do you really think that it is fine that in a fight between a shadowblade and a nightshade, that the difference in damage received is a wooping 20% ? It is litterally a free 10% melee resist (Physical Defense 5) + a base 10% dmg bonus + they are having even more benefits, like direct evade stun.

On SB you are lucky if you get the stun off when fighting inf/ns due to the followup. This is not about getting EZ mode - this is about getting an even playing field. Im also an advocate for removing the swap commands for instance.

You get a 2- Handed perf, gives you an advantage impressive over any sin vs a Visi when it comes to initial burst damage. That being said, class changes should be looked at in the sense of how it affects the class vs all classes not just specififc ones. The variance between same category of classes is what makes this game fun and better than most. If your requested changes were implemented, might as well change the class name to Assasins on all realms and give them the same abilities; sounds pretty boring to me.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:14 PM by Mauriac
jvilarova wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:05 PM
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:52 PM
jvilarova wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:38 PM
Just the fact that you asked to remove armor type vulnerabilities let's me know you just want everything to be ez mode and not have to actually think in this game. I thinkyou should just take a step back and rethink your strategies when it comes to fighting assassins.


A lot of other suggestions has been made, as I ended my initial topic with - no matter what - something has to be done. I think the best suggestions so far are the ones concerning the resist tables., and as was stated, they are easy to change in the code - so its easy to test.

Do you really think that it is fine that in a fight between a shadowblade and a nightshade, that the difference in damage received is a wooping 20% ? It is litterally a free 10% melee resist (Physical Defense 5) + a base 10% dmg bonus + they are having even more benefits, like direct evade stun.

On SB you are lucky if you get the stun off when fighting inf/ns due to the followup. This is not about getting EZ mode - this is about getting an even playing field. Im also an advocate for removing the swap commands for instance.

You get a 2- Handed perf, gives you an advantage impressive over any sin vs a Visi when it comes to initial burst damage. That being said, class changes should be looked at in the sense of how it affects the class vs all classes not just specififc ones. The variance between same category of classes is what makes this game fun and better than most. If your requested changes were implemented, might as well change the class name to Assasins on all realms and give them the same abilities; sounds pretty boring to me.

You clearly don't play a sin. No one uses 2h perf because it's terrible. The damage is barely more than using 2 weapons but your follow up comes slower than the 2nd coming of Jesus giving your opponent time to make a sandwich, go do laundry, pickup kids from school and come back before deciding what to do next
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:14 PM by armath
Peister wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:03 PM
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:52 PM
jvilarova wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:38 PM
Just the fact that you asked to remove armor type vulnerabilities let's me know you just want everything to be ez mode and not have to actually think in this game. I thinkyou should just take a step back and rethink your strategies when it comes to fighting assassins.


A lot of other suggestions has been made, as I ended my initial topic with - no matter what - something has to be done. I think the best suggestions so far are the ones concerning the resist tables., and as was stated, they are easy to change in the code - so its easy to test.

Do you really think that it is fine that in a fight between a shadowblade and a nightshade, that the difference in damage received is a wooping 20% ? It is litterally a free 10% melee resist (Physical Defense 5) + a base 10% dmg bonus + they are having even more benefits, like direct evade stun.

On SB you are lucky if you get the stun off when fighting inf/ns due to the followup. This is not about getting EZ mode - this is about getting an even playing field. Im also an advocate for removing the swap commands for instance.

You mix things up again, first you talk about how unfair ns 20% diff is, Then you talk about inf sb fight! Slash infi have the exact same problem as sb does VS ns, do you see a single cry post here, it is like a disease to the sb community, use the tools you are given, and No i wont tell what you are missing, play the game and go figure out! Instead of crying for easymode!
I got killed by a rr4 sb 2 times yesterday, name was dandere, mb you should ask him what you are missing 😉

Im not sure what topic you think you are on, but here we are discussing the SB against both infil and NS - the disadvantage of the SB in other words.

Slash infil does not have the exact same problem, as SB does vs. NS. The slash inf has way more spec points allowing for higher overall DPS. Also the infil has slash neutral armors. So lets say that the infil has maybe "half" the problem of the SB - to be realistic.

If you dont like the suggestion forums, no one asked you to be here, so just go do whatever you feel like, but dont tell me not to make suggestions to an obvious issue. As I stated my main issue has never been the SB vs. infil, but the SB vs. NS, so that you died to a low rank SB sounds like a skillgap thing between him and you.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:16 PM by armath
jvilarova wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:05 PM
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:52 PM
jvilarova wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:38 PM
Just the fact that you asked to remove armor type vulnerabilities let's me know you just want everything to be ez mode and not have to actually think in this game. I thinkyou should just take a step back and rethink your strategies when it comes to fighting assassins.


A lot of other suggestions has been made, as I ended my initial topic with - no matter what - something has to be done. I think the best suggestions so far are the ones concerning the resist tables., and as was stated, they are easy to change in the code - so its easy to test.

Do you really think that it is fine that in a fight between a shadowblade and a nightshade, that the difference in damage received is a wooping 20% ? It is litterally a free 10% melee resist (Physical Defense 5) + a base 10% dmg bonus + they are having even more benefits, like direct evade stun.

On SB you are lucky if you get the stun off when fighting inf/ns due to the followup. This is not about getting EZ mode - this is about getting an even playing field. Im also an advocate for removing the swap commands for instance.

You get a 2- Handed perf, gives you an advantage impressive over any sin vs a Visi when it comes to initial burst damage. That being said, class changes should be looked at in the sense of how it affects the class vs all classes not just specififc ones. The variance between same category of classes is what makes this game fun and better than most. If your requested changes were implemented, might as well change the class name to Assasins on all realms and give them the same abilities; sounds pretty boring to me.

SB 2-hand perf on NS hits for less, than a NS 1-h perf hits the SB...

The 2-hander is useless. Most targets I hit for around 250-350 dmg with PA on the 2h. Its not about the "big picture" its about finding out a way to balance the assassin meta. There is no reason that there is a 20% dmg difference between NS and SB - before the fight even begins.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:17 PM by Amp_Phetamine
jvilarova wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:05 PM
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:52 PM
jvilarova wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:38 PM
Just the fact that you asked to remove armor type vulnerabilities let's me know you just want everything to be ez mode and not have to actually think in this game. I thinkyou should just take a step back and rethink your strategies when it comes to fighting assassins.


A lot of other suggestions has been made, as I ended my initial topic with - no matter what - something has to be done. I think the best suggestions so far are the ones concerning the resist tables., and as was stated, they are easy to change in the code - so its easy to test.

Do you really think that it is fine that in a fight between a shadowblade and a nightshade, that the difference in damage received is a wooping 20% ? It is litterally a free 10% melee resist (Physical Defense 5) + a base 10% dmg bonus + they are having even more benefits, like direct evade stun.

On SB you are lucky if you get the stun off when fighting inf/ns due to the followup. This is not about getting EZ mode - this is about getting an even playing field. Im also an advocate for removing the swap commands for instance.

You get a 2- Handed perf, gives you an advantage impressive over any sin vs a Visi when it comes to initial burst damage. That being said, class changes should be looked at in the sense of how it affects the class vs all classes not just specififc ones. The variance between same category of classes is what makes this game fun and better than most. If your requested changes were implemented, might as well change the class name to Assasins on all realms and give them the same abilities; sounds pretty boring to me.

My hypothesis as to why the Dev's haven't really hopped into these threads much is because people have stated it quite simply. Shadow blades are not struggling in the larger picture. There is a single niche match-up that they have a disadvantage in. A single one. This match up is not causing mass genocide to shadow blades either. They can still kill blade shades, it's just more difficult. There is really no justifiable reason to make any changes to any of the assassins at the moment as they, by no means, are truly struggling in any great capacity.

Of course the ones who've died to blade shades and trembled with rage while they hit the /release button will continue their assault campaign against anyone who's opinion sides to the contrary.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:22 PM by armath
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:17 PM
jvilarova wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:05 PM
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:52 PM
A lot of other suggestions has been made, as I ended my initial topic with - no matter what - something has to be done. I think the best suggestions so far are the ones concerning the resist tables., and as was stated, they are easy to change in the code - so its easy to test.

Do you really think that it is fine that in a fight between a shadowblade and a nightshade, that the difference in damage received is a wooping 20% ? It is litterally a free 10% melee resist (Physical Defense 5) + a base 10% dmg bonus + they are having even more benefits, like direct evade stun.

On SB you are lucky if you get the stun off when fighting inf/ns due to the followup. This is not about getting EZ mode - this is about getting an even playing field. Im also an advocate for removing the swap commands for instance.

You get a 2- Handed perf, gives you an advantage impressive over any sin vs a Visi when it comes to initial burst damage. That being said, class changes should be looked at in the sense of how it affects the class vs all classes not just specififc ones. The variance between same category of classes is what makes this game fun and better than most. If your requested changes were implemented, might as well change the class name to Assasins on all realms and give them the same abilities; sounds pretty boring to me.

My hypothesis as to why the Dev's haven't really hopped into these threads much is because people have stated it quite simply. Shadow blades are not struggling in the larger picture. There is a single niche match-up that they have a disadvantage in. A single one. This match up is not causing mass genocide to shadow blades either. They can still kill blade shades, it's just more difficult. There is really no justifiable reason to make any changes to any of the assassins at the moment as they, by no means, are truly struggling in any great capacity.

Of course the ones who've died to blade shades and trembled with rage while they hit the /release button will continue their assault campaign against anyone who's opinion sides to the contrary.

If there was a meta in 8v8, where one realm could debuff for another 20% on caster nukes, and hit for 700+ on baselines without crit - I promise you there would be outrage.

NS has a 20% base dmg effectiveness against a SB - before the fight begins. That is not in any way balanced, specially when you take into account, that the stealther classes are often played solo, which it is also optimized for with stealth etc.

The twohander, is as I said, completely useless - especially against other stealthers.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:38 PM by Amp_Phetamine
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:22 PM
If there was a meta in 8v8, where one realm could debuff for another 20% on caster nukes, and hit for 700+ on baselines without crit - I promise you there would be outrage.

NS has a 20% base dmg effectiveness against a SB - before the fight begins. That is not in any way balanced, specially when you take into account, that the stealther classes are often played solo, which it is also optimized for with stealth etc.

The twohander, is as I said, completely useless - especially against other stealthers.

According to your first sentence, absolutely! But that isn't the case and is a very inaccurate analogy to what is being experienced here.

Night shades DO NOT have a 20% base damage effectiveness against shadow blades to begin. It is a combination of night shades having an armor resistance to slash in conjunction with that night shade speccing in blades.

Specifically - against blade specc'd night shades in particular is their an issue; however, this difference is obviously not destroying the shadow blade in the grand scheme of the FZ.

Armath what percentage of deaths would you say you can attribute SOLELY to dying to a blade specc'd night shade in a 1v1? Because that is the main issue being presented. It's the issues of a solo shadow blade encountering a solo blade specc'd night shade in a 1v1.

Just speaking generally from my personal experience on my Mercenary (obviously it's different because sins will try to avoid me) I run into twice as many shadow blades as I do blade specc'd night shades.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:43 PM by armath
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:38 PM
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:22 PM
If there was a meta in 8v8, where one realm could debuff for another 20% on caster nukes, and hit for 700+ on baselines without crit - I promise you there would be outrage.

NS has a 20% base dmg effectiveness against a SB - before the fight begins. That is not in any way balanced, specially when you take into account, that the stealther classes are often played solo, which it is also optimized for with stealth etc.

The twohander, is as I said, completely useless - especially against other stealthers.
Night shades DO NOT have a 20% base damage effectiveness against shadow blades to begin. It is a combination of night shades having an armor resistance to slash in conjunction with that night shade speccing in blades.

You do realize, that what you just wrote.. is that the NS have a 20% base damage effectiveness benefit against shadowblades - right? :-)
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:47 PM by Amp_Phetamine
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:43 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:38 PM
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:22 PM
If there was a meta in 8v8, where one realm could debuff for another 20% on caster nukes, and hit for 700+ on baselines without crit - I promise you there would be outrage.

NS has a 20% base dmg effectiveness against a SB - before the fight begins. That is not in any way balanced, specially when you take into account, that the stealther classes are often played solo, which it is also optimized for with stealth etc.

The twohander, is as I said, completely useless - especially against other stealthers.
Night shades DO NOT have a 20% base damage effectiveness against shadow blades to begin. It is a combination of night shades having an armor resistance to slash in conjunction with that night shade speccing in blades.

You do realize, that what you just wrote.. is that the NS have a 20% base damage effectiveness benefit against shadowblades - right? :-)

10% base. They need to spec into blades for the other 10% - It's a triviality but still important .

But like I stated before - If the Dev's want to give the SB the ability to use bludgeon and can code it to only work against infils/NS' then by all means let them go for it. I just don't see the shadow blade struggling in any capacity outside of the rare 1v1 encounter they may have against a blade shade.

Edit: Just to make a point - last Sunday I was playing and saw Phixion out and about in Emain - just for fun I /stated him - he was 35 and 10 in barely over an hour. I doubt all 10 of those deaths came from blade shade encounters too.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:56 PM by armath
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:47 PM
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:43 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:38 PM
Night shades DO NOT have a 20% base damage effectiveness against shadow blades to begin. It is a combination of night shades having an armor resistance to slash in conjunction with that night shade speccing in blades.

You do realize, that what you just wrote.. is that the NS have a 20% base damage effectiveness benefit against shadowblades - right? :-)

10% base. They need to spec into blades for the other 10% - It's a triviality but still important .

But like I stated before - If the Dev's want to give the SB the ability to use bludgeon and can code it to only work against infils/NS' then by all means let them go for it. I just don't see the shadow blade struggling in any capacity outside of the rare 1v1 encounter they may have against a blade shade.

Edit: Just to make a point - last Sunday I was playing and saw Phixion out and about in Emain - just for fun I /stated him - he was 35 and 10 in barely over an hour. I doubt all 10 of those deaths came from blade shade encounters too.

Well, when they also decided to give NS a blade spec line direct evade stun - which infact was added YEARS after blunt was added to the SB, its pretty much an obvious class buff beyond what is healthy for the assassin meta - dont you think?
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:58 PM by Amp_Phetamine
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:56 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:47 PM
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:43 PM
You do realize, that what you just wrote.. is that the NS have a 20% base damage effectiveness benefit against shadowblades - right? :-)

10% base. They need to spec into blades for the other 10% - It's a triviality but still important .

But like I stated before - If the Dev's want to give the SB the ability to use bludgeon and can code it to only work against infils/NS' then by all means let them go for it. I just don't see the shadow blade struggling in any capacity outside of the rare 1v1 encounter they may have against a blade shade.

Edit: Just to make a point - last Sunday I was playing and saw Phixion out and about in Emain - just for fun I /stated him - he was 35 and 10 in barely over an hour. I doubt all 10 of those deaths came from blade shade encounters too.

Well, when they also decided to give NS a blade spec line direct evade stun - which infact was added YEARS after blunt was added to the SB, its pretty much an obvious class buff beyond what is healthy for the assassin meta - dont you think?

Yeah, they didn't need to give blade shades the off evade stun as well, not sure why they did. They can't really go back and remove it now though, so best thing to do would be to add a similar style for the SB as well. This is one thing for sure I completely agree with.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:07 PM by dante`afk
Alright, I'll try to be really objective here:

SB is struggling a little bit until up to a certain RR. The class does not allow you mistakes, it is far more unforgiving than Infi/NS. While it has it's disadvantages, it's no way impossible to play her. Why do people play her and not NS/Infi? They might like the handicap, they might like northern mythology, they might be forever Midgard fans or have just their roots on Midgard and their friends.

While she starts to shine with higher RR, also her enemies rise in RR too, diminishing the gained equality altogether.

Why are you only seeing SB threads and people 'whining' about it and no Infi/NS threads? Well as we've figured out after 60 pages and 200+ posts; minor disadvantages. Classes should not be mirrored yes. Does the disadvantage warrant changes? Yes and no. Not necessary, but nice to have

What type of changes could be warranted?

Possibilities:
- Blunt ability
- Armor table changes
- 4s after evade stun at low spec similar to NS (nice to have, but ultimately would have no impact)

Out of context changes:
- 30 min purge timer only
- remove vanish, or make vanish only work if more than 2 enemies are around only.

Why are people demanding a change? Who are those people?

- Low RR
- Are not fully utilizing their class (not min/maxing)
- Not playing smart
- Want an easier time against their counterparts (e.g. if Infi/NS have it easy, I demand it too)
- Out of the sake of it

Who are the people who do not want the change?

- They don't like stealthers
- They get dumped too often by stealthers
- Dislike vanish
- General dislike towards stealthers
- It has no impact on them, calling it out just of the sake of it


Now, they are many match-ups that SB wins, which is SB struggling with? Slash dmg type of enemies (slash Infi/NS), Rangers (let's not talk about Friars or Reavers). If a SB wants to stand a chance against an equal RR Bladeshade/SlashInfi/Ranger, she needs to have everything up, red str/con and Dex/Quick, AF buff, ablative buff, (also possible dmg shield). She also needs to keep all debuffs up on the enemy at all times, failing to do so is a certain guarantee loss, unless the enemy is sleeping. (not counting it the silly miss/evade calculations this server has)

Would any of the above changes help?

Blunt damage - yes certainly
Armor table change - yes certainly
After evade 4s stun - no

Are the changes necessary only to help her against 3 types of enemies?

No, let her have some struggle. Right?

Is it fair towards SB, while Infi/NS/Ranger do not have those kind of disadvantages? (brings us back to the point about why people are 'whining'

No - but as we know, we do not want mirrored classes. But hey, if they have 20% dmg buff on us, why should we not too?

Patch inconsistency:
NS has been given blade spec and after evade stun here, (on live this came together with Bludgeon for SB). As customized as this server is, why do one thing and not the other?

What changes are we likely maybe to see: Either none or just the evade stun - threads would continue as the change has no effect


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ultimately, just close all the threads about it - it's tiresome as change is not going to happen. It's the same people circle jerking against each other. I bet the devs open up a beer and big bag of chips every Friday, browse together those threads while being on Discord voice and laugh
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:35 PM by Riac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:38 PM
armath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:22 PM
If there was a meta in 8v8, where one realm could debuff for another 20% on caster nukes, and hit for 700+ on baselines without crit - I promise you there would be outrage.

NS has a 20% base dmg effectiveness against a SB - before the fight begins. That is not in any way balanced, specially when you take into account, that the stealther classes are often played solo, which it is also optimized for with stealth etc.

The twohander, is as I said, completely useless - especially against other stealthers.

According to your first sentence, absolutely! But that isn't the case and is a very inaccurate analogy to what is being experienced here.

Night shades DO NOT have a 20% base damage effectiveness against shadow blades to begin. It is a combination of night shades having an armor resistance to slash in conjunction with that night shade speccing in blades.

Specifically - against blade specc'd night shades in particular is their an issue; however, this difference is obviously not destroying the shadow blade in the grand scheme of the FZ.

Armath what percentage of deaths would you say you can attribute SOLELY to dying to a blade specc'd night shade in a 1v1? Because that is the main issue being presented. It's the issues of a solo shadow blade encountering a solo blade specc'd night shade in a 1v1.

Just speaking generally from my personal experience on my Mercenary (obviously it's different because sins will try to avoid me) I run into twice as many shadow blades as I do blade specc'd night shades.

its not just the blade ns matchup, its also the slash inf matchup as well. however, unlike the ns matchup, the slash inf feels somewhat fair. what it is obvious we are at a disadvantage it can still be won if played right (sorta like the ns one, but you kinda need the ns to get lazy with poison or somthing) that is how a disadvantaged matchup should feel imo. and as far as how many deaths are attributed solely to blade NS, i personally dont have many anymore because i avoid hib areas like the plague, im not trying to fuck with blade melee rangers or blade ns much less any of the scale visis they have to offer.

also what personal experience are you drawing upon in this post? personal experience on phoenix? as ive mentioned before you have next to no personal experience in phoenix rvr 627k total (i see you finally bothered to get some more) 215k came from task rp.

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Ampradium

i believe in an earlier post you also drew upon some personal experience about 1v1 fights. you have 68 total solo kills, and i be surprised if the majority of that wasnt obtained in thid (before it was wrecked by tasks). so once again, what personal experience are you drawing upon? it surely doesnt seem like phoenix experience.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:47 PM by Ashenspire
NS do not have a 20% advantage over SBs.

Left axe mechanics do 5% more damage than CD mechanics at equal spec.

Shadowblades are on a higher HP table than Nightshades.

Shadowblades have higher strength than Nightshades.

After all is said and done it's not close to 20% unless you did something dumb like made a kobold and didn't put points into Strength at the start. Blade shades have a slight advantage. Thrust shades don't.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:49 PM by Riac
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:47 PM
NS do not have a 20% advantage over SBs.

Left axe mechanics do 5% more damage than CD mechanics at equal spec.

Shadowblades are on a higher HP table than Nightshades.

Shadowblades have higher strength than Nightshades.

After all is said and done it's not even close to 20% unless you did something dumb like made a kobold and didn't put points into Strength at the start.

lol this old shit again??? do you play a ns (blades) or an sb? take one look at the dmg difference (unfortunatly i dont have a ss to link ) and you will throw all that shit you just named right out the window.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:54 PM by Ashenspire
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:49 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:47 PM
NS do not have a 20% advantage over SBs.

Left axe mechanics do 5% more damage than CD mechanics at equal spec.

Shadowblades are on a higher HP table than Nightshades.

Shadowblades have higher strength than Nightshades.

After all is said and done it's not even close to 20% unless you did something dumb like made a kobold and didn't put points into Strength at the start.

lol this old shit again??? do you play a ns (blades) or an sb? take one look at the dmg difference (unfortunatly i dont have a ss to link ) and you will throw all that shit you just named right out the window.

I won't throw anything but your screen shot out the window. Screenshots don't prove anything. Come back with multiple logs of data that show all the factors that go into SB vs NS damage and show a 20% disparity when all things are equal and we'll talk. You won't, and can't, so you got nothing but the hope that if you wine loud enough the devs will give in to you.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:57 PM by Riac
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:54 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:49 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:47 PM
NS do not have a 20% advantage over SBs.

Left axe mechanics do 5% more damage than CD mechanics at equal spec.

Shadowblades are on a higher HP table than Nightshades.

Shadowblades have higher strength than Nightshades.

After all is said and done it's not even close to 20% unless you did something dumb like made a kobold and didn't put points into Strength at the start.

lol this old shit again??? do you play a ns (blades) or an sb? take one look at the dmg difference (unfortunatly i dont have a ss to link ) and you will throw all that shit you just named right out the window.

I won't throw anything but your screen shot out the window. Screenshots don't prove anything. Come back with multiple logs of data that show all the factors that go into SB vs NS damage and show a 20% disparity when all things are equal and we'll talk. You won't, and can't, so you got nothing but the hope that if you wine loud enough the devs will give in to you.

what do you think these screenshots are pictures of? ppl laying face down on the ground and saying "SEE?!" no its ss of the logs..... fucking rofl..... and if you wanted you could thumb through these posts and find multiple ss but ppl like you just dismiss them and say provide REAL proof.

soo once again do you play a ns or sb? hell, do you play a stealther of any kind here? and the reason i ask this is to determine if you have any sort of real understanding on how things are actually playing out in the engagements instead of reading off a spreadsheet from 2003.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:12 PM by Ashenspire
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:57 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:54 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:49 PM
lol this old shit again??? do you play a ns (blades) or an sb? take one look at the dmg difference (unfortunatly i dont have a ss to link ) and you will throw all that shit you just named right out the window.

I won't throw anything but your screen shot out the window. Screenshots don't prove anything. Come back with multiple logs of data that show all the factors that go into SB vs NS damage and show a 20% disparity when all things are equal and we'll talk. You won't, and can't, so you got nothing but the hope that if you wine loud enough the devs will give in to you.

what do you think these screenshots are pictures of? ppl laying face down on the ground and saying "SEE?!" no its ss of the logs..... fucking rofl..... and if you wanted you could thumb through these posts and find multiple ss but ppl like you just dismiss them and say provide REAL proof.

soo once again do you play a ns or sb? hell, do you play a stealther of any kind here? and the reason i ask this is to determine if you have any sort of real understanding on how things are actually playing out in the engagements instead of reading off a spreadsheet from 2003.

Screen shots of logs don't show weapon delay, buffs, debuffs, enemy stats, etc.

I could show a screen shot of the combat log of an Armsman getting perfed by a shadowblade for 1400 damage and scream nerf and completely leave out the fact that the armsman was naked, sitting down, and the shadowblade was fully buffed.

Screen shots are meaningless.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:18 PM by Cirath
dante`afk wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:07 PM
Alright, I'll try to be really objective here:

SB is struggling a little bit until up to a certain RR. The class does not allow you mistakes, it is far more unforgiving than Infi/NS. While it has it's disadvantages, it's no way impossible to play her. Why do people play her and not NS/Infi? They might like the handicap, they might like northern mythology, they might be forever Midgard fans or have just their roots on Midgard and their friends.

While she starts to shine with higher RR, also her enemies rise in RR too, diminishing the gained equality altogether.

Why are you only seeing SB threads and people 'whining' about it and no Infi/NS threads? Well as we've figured out after 60 pages and 200+ posts; minor disadvantages. Classes should not be mirrored yes. Does the disadvantage warrant changes? Yes and no. Not necessary, but nice to have

What type of changes could be warranted?

Possibilities:
- Blunt ability
- Armor table changes
- 4s after evade stun at low spec similar to NS (nice to have, but ultimately would have no impact)

Out of context changes:
- 30 min purge timer only
- remove vanish, or make vanish only work if more than 2 enemies are around only.

Why are people demanding a change? Who are those people?

- Low RR
- Are not fully utilizing their class (not min/maxing)
- Not playing smart
- Want an easier time against their counterparts (e.g. if Infi/NS have it easy, I demand it too)
- Out of the sake of it

Who are the people who do not want the change?

- They don't like stealthers
- They get dumped too often by stealthers
- Dislike vanish
- General dislike towards stealthers
- It has no impact on them, calling it out just of the sake of it


Now, they are many match-ups that SB wins, which is SB struggling with? Slash dmg type of enemies (slash Infi/NS), Rangers (let's not talk about Friars or Reavers). If a SB wants to stand a chance against an equal RR Bladeshade/SlashInfi/Ranger, she needs to have everything up, red str/con and Dex/Quick, AF buff, ablative buff, (also possible dmg shield). She also needs to keep all debuffs up on the enemy at all times, failing to do so is a certain guarantee loss, unless the enemy is sleeping. (not counting it the silly miss/evade calculations this server has)

Would any of the above changes help?

Blunt damage - yes certainly
Armor table change - yes certainly
After evade 4s stun - no

Are the changes necessary only to help her against 3 types of enemies?

No, let her have some struggle. Right?

Is it fair towards SB, while Infi/NS/Ranger do not have those kind of disadvantages? (brings us back to the point about why people are 'whining'

No - but as we know, we do not want mirrored classes. But hey, if they have 20% dmg buff on us, why should we not too?

Patch inconsistency:
NS has been given blade spec and after evade stun here, (on live this came together with Bludgeon for SB). As customized as this server is, why do one thing and not the other?

What changes are we likely maybe to see: Either none or just the evade stun - threads would continue as the change has no effect


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ultimately, just close all the threads about it - it's tiresome as change is not going to happen. It's the same people circle jerking against each other. I bet the devs open up a beer and big bag of chips every Friday, browse together those threads while being on Discord voice and laugh

Skip all of the SB threads and their hundreds of pages and read this. Excellent summation. I would add to your people who don't want a change folks who play SB and think balance is fine as is.

Every class has good and poor matchups. SB's match up well with thrust infs and NS's, less so with slash infs and bladeshades. Blade NS have classes they struggle with too because of their weapon choice, namely skalds and to a lesser extent minstrels and thrust infs.


Blade NS are very beatable if you play your shadowblade correctly. Not easy, but very doable.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:23 PM by Mauriac
Cirath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:18 PM
dante`afk wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:07 PM
Alright, I'll try to be really objective here:

SB is struggling a little bit until up to a certain RR. The class does not allow you mistakes, it is far more unforgiving than Infi/NS. While it has it's disadvantages, it's no way impossible to play her. Why do people play her and not NS/Infi? They might like the handicap, they might like northern mythology, they might be forever Midgard fans or have just their roots on Midgard and their friends.

While she starts to shine with higher RR, also her enemies rise in RR too, diminishing the gained equality altogether.

Why are you only seeing SB threads and people 'whining' about it and no Infi/NS threads? Well as we've figured out after 60 pages and 200+ posts; minor disadvantages. Classes should not be mirrored yes. Does the disadvantage warrant changes? Yes and no. Not necessary, but nice to have

What type of changes could be warranted?

Possibilities:
- Blunt ability
- Armor table changes
- 4s after evade stun at low spec similar to NS (nice to have, but ultimately would have no impact)

Out of context changes:
- 30 min purge timer only
- remove vanish, or make vanish only work if more than 2 enemies are around only.

Why are people demanding a change? Who are those people?

- Low RR
- Are not fully utilizing their class (not min/maxing)
- Not playing smart
- Want an easier time against their counterparts (e.g. if Infi/NS have it easy, I demand it too)
- Out of the sake of it

Who are the people who do not want the change?

- They don't like stealthers
- They get dumped too often by stealthers
- Dislike vanish
- General dislike towards stealthers
- It has no impact on them, calling it out just of the sake of it


Now, they are many match-ups that SB wins, which is SB struggling with? Slash dmg type of enemies (slash Infi/NS), Rangers (let's not talk about Friars or Reavers). If a SB wants to stand a chance against an equal RR Bladeshade/SlashInfi/Ranger, she needs to have everything up, red str/con and Dex/Quick, AF buff, ablative buff, (also possible dmg shield). She also needs to keep all debuffs up on the enemy at all times, failing to do so is a certain guarantee loss, unless the enemy is sleeping. (not counting it the silly miss/evade calculations this server has)

Would any of the above changes help?

Blunt damage - yes certainly
Armor table change - yes certainly
After evade 4s stun - no

Are the changes necessary only to help her against 3 types of enemies?

No, let her have some struggle. Right?

Is it fair towards SB, while Infi/NS/Ranger do not have those kind of disadvantages? (brings us back to the point about why people are 'whining'

No - but as we know, we do not want mirrored classes. But hey, if they have 20% dmg buff on us, why should we not too?

Patch inconsistency:
NS has been given blade spec and after evade stun here, (on live this came together with Bludgeon for SB). As customized as this server is, why do one thing and not the other?

What changes are we likely maybe to see: Either none or just the evade stun - threads would continue as the change has no effect


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ultimately, just close all the threads about it - it's tiresome as change is not going to happen. It's the same people circle jerking against each other. I bet the devs open up a beer and big bag of chips every Friday, browse together those threads while being on Discord voice and laugh

Skip all of the SB threads and their hundreds of pages and read this. Excellent summation. Every class has good and poor matchups. SB's match up well with thrust infs and NS's, less so with slash infs and bladeshades. Blade NS have classes they struggle with too because of their weapon choice, namely skalds and to a lesser extent minstrels and thrust infs.


Blade NS are very beatable if you play your shadowblade correctly. Not easy, but very doable.

By all means tell us what correctly is. Please let me know what else I can do beyond running max buffs and charges, tg sword, rotating ws / con, lifebane, disease, 20% lethargy, str poison and in some cases dumping a d/q debuff from my tg cloak into the fight.

I'm seriously all ears
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:39 PM by Riac
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:12 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:57 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:54 PM
I won't throw anything but your screen shot out the window. Screenshots don't prove anything. Come back with multiple logs of data that show all the factors that go into SB vs NS damage and show a 20% disparity when all things are equal and we'll talk. You won't, and can't, so you got nothing but the hope that if you wine loud enough the devs will give in to you.

what do you think these screenshots are pictures of? ppl laying face down on the ground and saying "SEE?!" no its ss of the logs..... fucking rofl..... and if you wanted you could thumb through these posts and find multiple ss but ppl like you just dismiss them and say provide REAL proof.

soo once again do you play a ns or sb? hell, do you play a stealther of any kind here? and the reason i ask this is to determine if you have any sort of real understanding on how things are actually playing out in the engagements instead of reading off a spreadsheet from 2003.

Screen shots of logs don't show weapon delay, buffs, debuffs, enemy stats, etc.

I could show a screen shot of the combat log of an Armsman getting perfed by a shadowblade for 1400 damage and scream nerf and completely leave out the fact that the armsman was naked, sitting down, and the shadowblade was fully buffed.

Screen shots are meaningless.

This is a page 3 arguement here. Clearly we are not talking about ppl not temped or buffed. I'm running fully buffed, and I assume my serious opponents are also. All else being equal, I'm getting -10% dmg and they are getting +10% dmg. And it shows in the logs, and if they're doing that dmg while being not fully buffed then it truly is a problem (I think they are fully buffed). And before you bring up "but they gotta get mo str6", well I have to get mo pain 6 and then rely on luck just to come close to their dmg all the while hoping they don't get an oh hit. And the extra 100 hp is a joke when they are pumping out their current numbers. 2h sucks, 2 weaps do almost as much on pa and allow for faster application of cd, which is the important part. If you'd go read the first 10 pages of the other thread all this is already covered.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:44 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:35 PM
its not just the blade ns matchup, its also the slash inf matchup as well. however, unlike the ns matchup, the slash inf feels somewhat fair. what it is obvious we are at a disadvantage it can still be won if played right (sorta like the ns one, but you kinda need the ns to get lazy with poison or somthing) that is how a disadvantaged matchup should feel imo. and as far as how many deaths are attributed solely to blade NS, i personally dont have many anymore because i avoid hib areas like the plague, im not trying to fuck with blade melee rangers or blade ns much less any of the scale visis they have to offer.

also what personal experience are you drawing upon in this post? personal experience on phoenix? as ive mentioned before you have next to no personal experience in phoenix rvr 627k total (i see you finally bothered to get some more) 215k came from task rp.

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Ampradium

i believe in an earlier post you also drew upon some personal experience about 1v1 fights. you have 68 total solo kills, and i be surprised if the majority of that wasnt obtained in thid (before it was wrecked by tasks). so once again, what personal experience are you drawing upon? it surely doesnt seem like phoenix experience.

Yup, 68 solo kills, probably 59-60 of them against assassins (more to come each weekend )
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:01 PM by Ashenspire
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:39 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:12 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:57 PM
what do you think these screenshots are pictures of? ppl laying face down on the ground and saying "SEE?!" no its ss of the logs..... fucking rofl..... and if you wanted you could thumb through these posts and find multiple ss but ppl like you just dismiss them and say provide REAL proof.

soo once again do you play a ns or sb? hell, do you play a stealther of any kind here? and the reason i ask this is to determine if you have any sort of real understanding on how things are actually playing out in the engagements instead of reading off a spreadsheet from 2003.

Screen shots of logs don't show weapon delay, buffs, debuffs, enemy stats, etc.

I could show a screen shot of the combat log of an Armsman getting perfed by a shadowblade for 1400 damage and scream nerf and completely leave out the fact that the armsman was naked, sitting down, and the shadowblade was fully buffed.

Screen shots are meaningless.

This is a page 3 arguement here. Clearly we are not talking about ppl not temped or buffed. I'm running fully buffed, and I assume my serious opponents are also. All else being equal, I'm getting -10% dmg and they are getting +10% dmg. And it shows in the logs, and if they're doing that dmg while being not fully buffed then it truly is a problem (I think they are fully buffed). And before you bring up "but they gotta get mo str6", well I have to get mo pain 6 and then rely on luck just to come close to their dmg all the while hoping they don't get an oh hit. And the extra 100 hp is a joke when they are pumping out their current numbers. 2h sucks, 2 weaps do almost as much on pa and allow for faster application of cd, which is the important part. If you'd go read the first 10 pages of the other thread all this is already covered.

Why read a bunch of people crying that they lost a fight and blaming it on the wrong thing? It's all been heard before, and every time it's just people that don't like losing and want to complain about it.

Why do you think mop6 matches their aug str? They're two different things.

Didn't say anything about 2h. Everyone knows 2h is a trap.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:09 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:01 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:39 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:12 PM
Screen shots of logs don't show weapon delay, buffs, debuffs, enemy stats, etc.

I could show a screen shot of the combat log of an Armsman getting perfed by a shadowblade for 1400 damage and scream nerf and completely leave out the fact that the armsman was naked, sitting down, and the shadowblade was fully buffed.

Screen shots are meaningless.

This is a page 3 arguement here. Clearly we are not talking about ppl not temped or buffed. I'm running fully buffed, and I assume my serious opponents are also. All else being equal, I'm getting -10% dmg and they are getting +10% dmg. And it shows in the logs, and if they're doing that dmg while being not fully buffed then it truly is a problem (I think they are fully buffed). And before you bring up "but they gotta get mo str6", well I have to get mo pain 6 and then rely on luck just to come close to their dmg all the while hoping they don't get an oh hit. And the extra 100 hp is a joke when they are pumping out their current numbers. 2h sucks, 2 weaps do almost as much on pa and allow for faster application of cd, which is the important part. If you'd go read the first 10 pages of the other thread all this is already covered.

Why read a bunch of people crying that they lost a fight and blaming it on the wrong thing? It's all been heard before, and every time it's just people that don't like losing and want to complain about it.

Why do you have to get mop6 to match their aug str? Makes no sense.

Didn't say anything about 2h. Everyone knows 2h is a trap.

Honestly, 2h damage is really good, shadow blades should really start using it more effectively. Swapping to 2h after stun can dish out nasty dps, especially since your target is nearly completely debuffed.









*trap set*
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:13 PM by Riac
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:01 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:39 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:12 PM
Screen shots of logs don't show weapon delay, buffs, debuffs, enemy stats, etc.

I could show a screen shot of the combat log of an Armsman getting perfed by a shadowblade for 1400 damage and scream nerf and completely leave out the fact that the armsman was naked, sitting down, and the shadowblade was fully buffed.

Screen shots are meaningless.

This is a page 3 arguement here. Clearly we are not talking about ppl not temped or buffed. I'm running fully buffed, and I assume my serious opponents are also. All else being equal, I'm getting -10% dmg and they are getting +10% dmg. And it shows in the logs, and if they're doing that dmg while being not fully buffed then it truly is a problem (I think they are fully buffed). And before you bring up "but they gotta get mo str6", well I have to get mo pain 6 and then rely on luck just to come close to their dmg all the while hoping they don't get an oh hit. And the extra 100 hp is a joke when they are pumping out their current numbers. 2h sucks, 2 weaps do almost as much on pa and allow for faster application of cd, which is the important part. If you'd go read the first 10 pages of the other thread all this is already covered.

Why read a bunch of people crying that they lost a fight and blaming it on the wrong thing? It's all been heard before, and every time it's just people that don't like losing and want to complain about it.

Why do you have to get mop6 to match their aug str? Makes no sense.

Didn't say anything about 2h. Everyone knows 2h is a trap.

If you want to participate you should atleast be caught up and know what you're talking about instead of druging up old shit to go over once more just because you weren't paying attn. And if you really don't understand why they get aug str and we get mo pain you really should go back and read because you are clearly lacking understanding of the match up.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:20 PM by Ashenspire
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:13 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:01 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:39 PM
This is a page 3 arguement here. Clearly we are not talking about ppl not temped or buffed. I'm running fully buffed, and I assume my serious opponents are also. All else being equal, I'm getting -10% dmg and they are getting +10% dmg. And it shows in the logs, and if they're doing that dmg while being not fully buffed then it truly is a problem (I think they are fully buffed). And before you bring up "but they gotta get mo str6", well I have to get mo pain 6 and then rely on luck just to come close to their dmg all the while hoping they don't get an oh hit. And the extra 100 hp is a joke when they are pumping out their current numbers. 2h sucks, 2 weaps do almost as much on pa and allow for faster application of cd, which is the important part. If you'd go read the first 10 pages of the other thread all this is already covered.

Why read a bunch of people crying that they lost a fight and blaming it on the wrong thing? It's all been heard before, and every time it's just people that don't like losing and want to complain about it.

Why do you have to get mop6 to match their aug str? Makes no sense.

Didn't say anything about 2h. Everyone knows 2h is a trap.

If you want to participate you should atleast be caught up and know what you're talking about instead of druging up old shit to go over once more just because you weren't paying attn. And if you really don't understand why they get aug str and we get mo pain you really should go back and read because you are clearly lacking understanding of the match up.

I understand why they get Aug str. I understand why SBs get mop.

What I don't understand is why you think that's relevant to the original point that "blade shades have a 20% advantage over Shadowblades."

When comparing the two, you have to assume equal based. Equal skills, equal templates, equal RAs, equal buffs, etc.

When you do so, and look at the matchup objectively, the 20% number doesn't hold up to scrutiny. That's my point. What else is there to pay attention to? This claim is wrong, no matter how you try to swing it.

Yes, blade shades have an advantage. No one is disputing that. But they're supposed to, as they have disadvantages in other matchups, and it's STILL not 20%. End of story.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:25 PM by Cirath
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:23 PM
Cirath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:18 PM
dante`afk wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 4:07 PM
Alright, I'll try to be really objective here:

SB is struggling a little bit until up to a certain RR. The class does not allow you mistakes, it is far more unforgiving than Infi/NS. While it has it's disadvantages, it's no way impossible to play her. Why do people play her and not NS/Infi? They might like the handicap, they might like northern mythology, they might be forever Midgard fans or have just their roots on Midgard and their friends.

While she starts to shine with higher RR, also her enemies rise in RR too, diminishing the gained equality altogether.

Why are you only seeing SB threads and people 'whining' about it and no Infi/NS threads? Well as we've figured out after 60 pages and 200+ posts; minor disadvantages. Classes should not be mirrored yes. Does the disadvantage warrant changes? Yes and no. Not necessary, but nice to have

What type of changes could be warranted?

Possibilities:
- Blunt ability
- Armor table changes
- 4s after evade stun at low spec similar to NS (nice to have, but ultimately would have no impact)

Out of context changes:
- 30 min purge timer only
- remove vanish, or make vanish only work if more than 2 enemies are around only.

Why are people demanding a change? Who are those people?

- Low RR
- Are not fully utilizing their class (not min/maxing)
- Not playing smart
- Want an easier time against their counterparts (e.g. if Infi/NS have it easy, I demand it too)
- Out of the sake of it

Who are the people who do not want the change?

- They don't like stealthers
- They get dumped too often by stealthers
- Dislike vanish
- General dislike towards stealthers
- It has no impact on them, calling it out just of the sake of it


Now, they are many match-ups that SB wins, which is SB struggling with? Slash dmg type of enemies (slash Infi/NS), Rangers (let's not talk about Friars or Reavers). If a SB wants to stand a chance against an equal RR Bladeshade/SlashInfi/Ranger, she needs to have everything up, red str/con and Dex/Quick, AF buff, ablative buff, (also possible dmg shield). She also needs to keep all debuffs up on the enemy at all times, failing to do so is a certain guarantee loss, unless the enemy is sleeping. (not counting it the silly miss/evade calculations this server has)

Would any of the above changes help?

Blunt damage - yes certainly
Armor table change - yes certainly
After evade 4s stun - no

Are the changes necessary only to help her against 3 types of enemies?

No, let her have some struggle. Right?

Is it fair towards SB, while Infi/NS/Ranger do not have those kind of disadvantages? (brings us back to the point about why people are 'whining'

No - but as we know, we do not want mirrored classes. But hey, if they have 20% dmg buff on us, why should we not too?

Patch inconsistency:
NS has been given blade spec and after evade stun here, (on live this came together with Bludgeon for SB). As customized as this server is, why do one thing and not the other?

What changes are we likely maybe to see: Either none or just the evade stun - threads would continue as the change has no effect


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ultimately, just close all the threads about it - it's tiresome as change is not going to happen. It's the same people circle jerking against each other. I bet the devs open up a beer and big bag of chips every Friday, browse together those threads while being on Discord voice and laugh

Skip all of the SB threads and their hundreds of pages and read this. Excellent summation. Every class has good and poor matchups. SB's match up well with thrust infs and NS's, less so with slash infs and bladeshades. Blade NS have classes they struggle with too because of their weapon choice, namely skalds and to a lesser extent minstrels and thrust infs.


Blade NS are very beatable if you play your shadowblade correctly. Not easy, but very doable.

By all means tell us what correctly is. Please let me know what else I can do beyond running max buffs and charges, tg sword, rotating ws / con, lifebane, disease, 20% lethargy, str poison and in some cases dumping a d/q debuff from my tg cloak into the fight.

I'm seriously all ears

You do this all consistently and don't win the majority of your 1v1 fights? Don't know what to tell you then, that hasn't been my experience. What is your spec and RR/ra set up? Sometimes you just lose...
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:30 PM by Riac
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:20 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:13 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:01 PM
Why read a bunch of people crying that they lost a fight and blaming it on the wrong thing? It's all been heard before, and every time it's just people that don't like losing and want to complain about it.

Why do you have to get mop6 to match their aug str? Makes no sense.

Didn't say anything about 2h. Everyone knows 2h is a trap.

If you want to participate you should atleast be caught up and know what you're talking about instead of druging up old shit to go over once more just because you weren't paying attn. And if you really don't understand why they get aug str and we get mo pain you really should go back and read because you are clearly lacking understanding of the match up.

I understand why they get Aug str. I understand why SBs get mop.

What I don't understand is why you think that's relevant to the original point that "blade shades have a 20% advantage over Shadowblades."

When comparing the two, you have to assume equal based. Equal skills, equal templates, equal RAs, equal buffs, etc.

When you do so, and look at the matchup objectively, the 20% number doesn't hold up to scrutiny. That's my point. What else is there to pay attention to? This claim is wrong, no matter how you try to swing it.

Yes, blade shades have an advantage. No one is disputing that. But they're supposed to, as they have disadvantages in other matchups, and it's STILL not 20%. End of story.

Def not end of story.. and if you understand all this then why ask in previous post?
Those disadvantages were reduced when they got an off evade stun and we got nothing, before they had to choose between dps or evade stun, now they dont.
No other stealther match up has a 20% spread. They all have to deal with 10% spreads at the most.

And let's talk about talk about the classes I get bonuses on. Hib scale lol, I get to pick between slam or debuffs lol. You'll never find the solo warden or druid.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:34 PM by Riac
Cirath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:25 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:23 PM
Cirath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:18 PM
Skip all of the SB threads and their hundreds of pages and read this. Excellent summation. Every class has good and poor matchups. SB's match up well with thrust infs and NS's, less so with slash infs and bladeshades. Blade NS have classes they struggle with too because of their weapon choice, namely skalds and to a lesser extent minstrels and thrust infs.


Blade NS are very beatable if you play your shadowblade correctly. Not easy, but very doable.

By all means tell us what correctly is. Please let me know what else I can do beyond running max buffs and charges, tg sword, rotating ws / con, lifebane, disease, 20% lethargy, str poison and in some cases dumping a d/q debuff from my tg cloak into the fight.

I'm seriously all ears

You do this all consistently and don't win the majority of your 1v1 fights? Don't know what to tell you then, that hasn't been my experience. What is your spec and RR/ra set up? Sometimes you just lose...

What is your exp? Are you playing an sb? Also, what ns is popping on skalds? Atleast their bad matchups can't see you well in stealth.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:37 PM by Riac
Cirath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:25 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:23 PM
Cirath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 5:18 PM
Skip all of the SB threads and their hundreds of pages and read this. Excellent summation. Every class has good and poor matchups. SB's match up well with thrust infs and NS's, less so with slash infs and bladeshades. Blade NS have classes they struggle with too because of their weapon choice, namely skalds and to a lesser extent minstrels and thrust infs.


Blade NS are very beatable if you play your shadowblade correctly. Not easy, but very doable.

By all means tell us what correctly is. Please let me know what else I can do beyond running max buffs and charges, tg sword, rotating ws / con, lifebane, disease, 20% lethargy, str poison and in some cases dumping a d/q debuff from my tg cloak into the fight.

I'm seriously all ears

You do this all consistently and don't win the majority of your 1v1 fights? Don't know what to tell you then, that hasn't been my experience. What is your spec and RR/ra set up? Sometimes you just lose...

What is your exp? Are you playing an sb? Also, what ns is popping on skalds? Atleast their bad matchups can't see them well in stealth.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:50 PM by Cirath
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:34 PM
What is your exp? Are you playing an sb? Also, what ns is popping on skalds? Atleast their bad matchups can't see you well in stealth.

I've stated it in every one of these repetative threads now, so this will be the last time. Please pay attention. I play a RR6 SB and a RR5 blade NS on this server. I see this matchup from both sides of the fence.

I beat more blades nightshades 1 v 1 than I lose to when playing the SB. Probably in the neighborhood of 2-3 wins per loss 1v1 vs blades NS. In my experience the three assasins are BALANCED. Not the same, but balanced. If i had bludgeon that ratio would be considerably higher, and horribly unbalanced.

As for popping on skalds:
When you are a solo assasin, you attack other solos. For nightshades, that means alot of skalds running around. They are tough matchups, but provide good fights and are an interesting challenge. This doesn't apply if you like to run in the 3 to 8 man stealth groups that I see daily (on ALL realms btw), which is perfectly fine if you enjoy it, but really isn't my cup of tea.

Every time I think I'm done posting in these threads, I find myself drawn back in. Was always a sucker for bait...
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:59 PM by Riac
Cirath wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:50 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:34 PM
What is your exp? Are you playing an sb? Also, what ns is popping on skalds? Atleast their bad matchups can't see you well in stealth.

I've stated it in every one of these repetative threads now, so this will be the last time. Please pay attention. I play a RR6 SB and a RR5 blade NS on this server. I see this matchup from both sides of the fence.

I beat more blades nightshades 1 v 1 than I lose to when playing the SB. Probably in the neighborhood of 2-3 wins per loss 1v1 vs blades NS. In my experience the three assasins are BALANCED. Not the same, but balanced. If i had bludgeon that ratio would be considerably higher, and horribly unbalanced.

As for popping on skalds:
When you are a solo assasin, you attack other solos. For nightshades, that means alot of skalds running around. They are tough matchups, but provide good fights and are an interesting challenge. This doesn't apply if you like to run in the 3 to 8 man stealth groups that I see daily (on ALL realms btw), which is perfectly fine if you enjoy it, but really isn't my cup of tea.

Every time I think I'm done posting in these threads, I find myself drawn back in. Was always a sucker for bait...

Your either killing brehons are have the secret that no one else knows (which I doubt)
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:01 PM by Amp_Phetamine
I dunno man, maybe you guys are in the minority here Riac :/. Thinking back on it there were really only 8 or so posters that played shadow blades that also felt they didn't stand a chance against blade shades.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:04 PM by Riac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:01 PM
I dunno man, maybe you guys are in the minority here Riac :/. Thinking back on it there were really only 8 or so posters that played shadow blades that also felt they didn't stand a chance against blade shades.

Doubt it, shit loads of ppl play and don't read the forums but feel the same way. Log on to mid and talk to some of them if you'd like.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:05 PM by Cirath
Well, I'm not killing brehons solo. They usually come 2-3 at a time. Average blade nightshade I fight is RR4-RR6. And I was killing them since RR4. As I said, my experiences don't match yours.


As for logging on to mid and listening to people complain, I will agree with you there. Mids on this server complain about alot of stuff (so do hibs actually, im sure alb is the same) At any given moment someone is throwing a fit over LA damage, necros, insta amnesia, shrooms etc. etc. etc. in any of of the public channels. The sheer amount of blatently incorrect statements presented as fact in the advice channel alone is staggering. Just because people complain, doesn't make it so.....
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:06 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Yeah, that's true. I sometimes try and discuss what the Dev's could do to improve the Mercenary but there's usually only like 3 of us playing them anyways >.<
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:11 PM by Riac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:06 PM
Yeah, that's true. I sometimes try and discuss what the Dev's could do to improve the Mercenary but there's usually only like 3 of us playing them anyways >.<

Mercy seem to be a victim of the meta more than being a bad class, put them in mid or hib and they'd get invites np.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:23 PM by Riac
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:12 PM


Feel free not to read this thread or any other on the subject.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:34 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:11 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:06 PM
Yeah, that's true. I sometimes try and discuss what the Dev's could do to improve the Mercenary but there's usually only like 3 of us playing them anyways >.<

Mercy seem to be a victim of the meta more than being a bad class, put them in mid or hib and they'd get invites np.

Haha, true, I don't think Merc's need anything at all tbh, I do really well on mine, dishes out some pretty respectable DPS.

If I ever get the motivation/time I'd run a necro AF debuff assist train every single day.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:41 PM by Riac
It pretty much comes down to slash inf is a perfect example of a bad match up, a blade NS is an absurd match up.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:46 PM by Ashenspire
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:34 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:11 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 7:06 PM
Yeah, that's true. I sometimes try and discuss what the Dev's could do to improve the Mercenary but there's usually only like 3 of us playing them anyways >.<

Mercy seem to be a victim of the meta more than being a bad class, put them in mid or hib and they'd get invites np.

Haha, true, I don't think Merc's need anything at all tbh, I do really well on mine, dishes out some pretty respectable DPS.

If I ever get the motivation/time I'd run a necro AF debuff assist train every single day.

Run with a Reaver. Alb melee train should be Merc Reaver Paladin. Necro debuff might be nice but any other caster besides wizard is more beneficial to the group in terms of utility or damage.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:24 AM by Cadebrennus
http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?160659-LA-Mechanics


"...It�s interesting, and perhaps unexpected for some people, to notice that while the mainhand damage of a LA user is often considerably lower than that of a CD/DW user when styling, the fact that the offhand hits 100% of the time makes up for this perfectly over time.� In small quantities, as before, LA may perform in a superior or inferior manner to CD/DW, depending on the luck of the offhand swing � over time, that key critical component, however, all is balanced."


"...For the first time in any of our tests, we finally start to see Left Axe outdamage both Celtic Dual and Dual Wield.� While CD/DW do more damage from the mainhand on average unhasted, when counting the haste effect, this damage is actually less in the long run � the reliable haste on every swing allows a LA user to very slightly boost his DPS over that of a CD/DW user, as long as melee styles are used during this time.� Note, of course, that the actual amount this DPS varies will increase when the speed difference between the two weapons is larger, while it will decrease when the speed difference is smaller."

"...This document was written by Peter Waterman (aka Squawking Tiger or watermnp on the Pendragon boards).� This document would not exist without the extremely detailed research and discovery performed by Jay Ambrosini (aka Wyrd) on style calculations.� Equal thanks go to Niin and Kaber for some of the heavy work into proving how the current CD/DW formulas work originally, and to Melal/morphene for pinning down the formula for Left Axe.� I can�t even begin to list all the testers who spent hours and hours of their time beating on people and doors for the thousands of attacks done to verify the accuracy of the CD/DW formulas."
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:29 AM by Riac
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:24 AM
http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?160659-LA-Mechanics


"It�s interesting, and perhaps unexpected for some people, to notice that while the mainhand damage of a LA user is often considerably lower than that of a CD/DW user when styling, the fact that the offhand hits 100% of the time makes up for this perfectly over time.� In small quantities, as before, LA may perform in a superior or inferior manner to CD/DW, depending on the luck of the offhand swing � over time, that key critical component, however, all is balanced."


"
For the first time in any of our tests, we finally start to see Left Axe outdamage both Celtic Dual and Dual Wield.� While CD/DW do more damage from the mainhand on average unhasted, when counting the haste effect, this damage is actually less in the long run � the reliable haste on every swing allows a LA user to very slightly boost his DPS over that of a CD/DW user, as long as melee styles are used during this time.� Note, of course, that the actual amount this DPS varies will increase when the speed difference between the two weapons is larger, while it will decrease when the speed difference is smaller."

la doesnt hit everytime, it has a 50% miss chance on most things. swing does not equal hit, but hey keep scouring postcount for shit that does not apply here.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:34 AM by Cadebrennus
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:29 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:24 AM
http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?160659-LA-Mechanics


"It�s interesting, and perhaps unexpected for some people, to notice that while the mainhand damage of a LA user is often considerably lower than that of a CD/DW user when styling, the fact that the offhand hits 100% of the time makes up for this perfectly over time.� In small quantities, as before, LA may perform in a superior or inferior manner to CD/DW, depending on the luck of the offhand swing � over time, that key critical component, however, all is balanced."


"
For the first time in any of our tests, we finally start to see Left Axe outdamage both Celtic Dual and Dual Wield.� While CD/DW do more damage from the mainhand on average unhasted, when counting the haste effect, this damage is actually less in the long run � the reliable haste on every swing allows a LA user to very slightly boost his DPS over that of a CD/DW user, as long as melee styles are used during this time.� Note, of course, that the actual amount this DPS varies will increase when the speed difference between the two weapons is larger, while it will decrease when the speed difference is smaller."

la doesnt hit everytime, it has a 50% mist chance on most things.

Last I checked, CD/DW was also an offhand unstyled swing, which has the same chance to hit or miss as the Left Axe offhand.

So, seriously Riac, that's the only counter you have to the summary of data that I posted? Weak argument. Read the thread I posted rather than just try to one-up people with nonsense.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:35 AM by Riac
all of this assuming equal rr and buffs.

SB vs Pierce Inf
SB: neutral dmg, ok for me
Pierce Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Bad matchup overall for the Inf but thats ok. Only a 10% spread on dmg, nothing crazy.

SB vs Slash Inf
SB: neutral dmg, ok for me
Slash inf: +10% dmg, good for him
Bad matchup overall for me but thats ok. Only a 10% dmg spread, nothing crazy.

SB vs Pierce NS
pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
SB: -10% dmg, bad for me
Overall its a wash.

SB vs Blade NS
Blade NS: +10% dmg good for him
SB: -10% dmg bad for me
Absurd matchup. 20% dmg spread, this is what all the complaining is about.

Pierce NS vs Pierce Inf
Pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
Pierce Inf: nuetral dmg, ok for him
Bad matchup overall for the NS buts its ok. only a 10% dmg spread.

Pierce NS vs Slash Inf
pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
Slash Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Overall its a wash.

Blade NS vs Slash Inf
Blade NS: neutral dmg, ok for him
Slash Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Bad matchup over all for the Inf but its ok. Only a 10% dmg spread, nothing crazy.

as you can see the only matchup with a 20% dmg spread is the blade NS vs SB.... the only one, this is what all the threads and complaining is about.

this isnt non sense

they conflate swing with hit in the first sentence, why would i bother to read it when there is such an obvious error in the summary?
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:43 AM by Cadebrennus
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:35 AM
all of this assuming equal rr and buffs.

SB vs Pierce Inf
SB: neutral dmg, ok for me
Pierce Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Bad matchup overall for the Inf but thats ok. Only a 10% spread on dmg, nothing crazy.

SB vs Slash Inf
SB: neutral dmg, ok for me
Slash inf: +10% dmg, good for him
Bad matchup overall for me but thats ok. Only a 10% dmg spread, nothing crazy.

SB vs Pierce NS
pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
SB: -10% dmg, bad for me
Overall its a wash.

SB vs Blade NS
Blade NS: +10% dmg good for him
SB: -10% dmg bad for me
Absurd matchup. 20% dmg spread, this is what all the complaining is about.

Pierce NS vs Pierce Inf
Pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
Pierce Inf: nuetral dmg, ok for him
Bad matchup overall for the NS buts its ok. only a 10% dmg spread.

Pierce NS vs Slash Inf
pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
Slash Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Overall its a wash.

Blade NS vs Slash Inf
Blade NS: neutral dmg, ok for him
Slash Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Bad matchup over all for the Inf but its ok. Only a 10% dmg spread, nothing crazy.

as you can see the only matchup with a 20% dmg spread is the blade NS vs SB.... the only one, this is what all the threads and complaining is about.

this isnt non sense

You omitted two things;

Norse have 30 more strength than Keen/Elf. This translates into more damage and higher weaponskill (which also means better defense penetration.)

Norse have approximately 215 more hits than Keen/Elf.


When you purposely omit things from your argument it isn't exactly lying, but it's damn close.

When you omit things because you're trying to serve your own agenda, you are not arguing for the sake of balance. You are arguing and lying for a selfish purpose.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:45 AM by Riac
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:43 AM
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:35 AM
all of this assuming equal rr and buffs.

SB vs Pierce Inf
SB: neutral dmg, ok for me
Pierce Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Bad matchup overall for the Inf but thats ok. Only a 10% spread on dmg, nothing crazy.

SB vs Slash Inf
SB: neutral dmg, ok for me
Slash inf: +10% dmg, good for him
Bad matchup overall for me but thats ok. Only a 10% dmg spread, nothing crazy.

SB vs Pierce NS
pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
SB: -10% dmg, bad for me
Overall its a wash.

SB vs Blade NS
Blade NS: +10% dmg good for him
SB: -10% dmg bad for me
Absurd matchup. 20% dmg spread, this is what all the complaining is about.

Pierce NS vs Pierce Inf
Pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
Pierce Inf: nuetral dmg, ok for him
Bad matchup overall for the NS buts its ok. only a 10% dmg spread.

Pierce NS vs Slash Inf
pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
Slash Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Overall its a wash.

Blade NS vs Slash Inf
Blade NS: neutral dmg, ok for him
Slash Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Bad matchup over all for the Inf but its ok. Only a 10% dmg spread, nothing crazy.

as you can see the only matchup with a 20% dmg spread is the blade NS vs SB.... the only one, this is what all the threads and complaining is about.

this isnt non sense

You omitted two things;

Norse have 30 more strength than Keen/Elf. This translates into more damage and higher weaponskill (which also means better defense penetration.)

Norse have approximately 215 more hits than Keen/Elf.


When you purposely omit things from your argument it isn't exactly lying, but it's damn close.

When you omit things because you're trying to serve your own agenda, you are not arguing for the sake of balance. You are arguing and lying for a selfish purpose.

briton has 20 more str and they dont suffer from the same dmg tables that we do, id gladly give up my 10 str for there leather. last i heard it was 100 more hp than a keen, now its 250? i have 1758 hp w/ red s/c on.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:46 AM by Mavella
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:29 AM
la doesnt hit everytime, it has a 50% mist chance on most things.

If your LA is sufficiently high enough(i have 30+16 and have like 15.55% miss chance) it's going to have the standard 85%hit/15% miss vs a target with no defensive bonuses or penalties.

CD/DW are no different they just have a % chance to even swing based on spec obviously. It can miss or be evaded/blocked/parried just as often as LA if it even swings at all.

If your offhand has a 50% miss chance it's likely crafted and not enchanted (15% + 0% bonus vs 35% bonus armor = 50% miss chance).
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:49 AM by Riac
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:46 AM
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:29 AM
la doesnt hit everytime, it has a 50% mist chance on most things.

If your LA is sufficiently high enough(i have 30+16 and have like 15.55% miss chance) it's going to have the standard 85%hit/15% miss vs a target with no defensive bonuses or penalties.

CD/DW are no different they just have a % chance to even swing based on spec obviously. It can miss or be evaded/blocked/parried just as often as LA if it even swings at all.

If your offhand has a 50% miss chance it's likely crafted and not enchanted (15% + 0% bonus vs 35% bonus armor = 50% miss chance).

yea, youre right.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:38 AM by Fooj Fujiyama
Wow 14 pages that didn't need to exist. News flash there are plenty of classes that need buffs more than shadowblades. Assassin life so ruff on phoenix huh? QQ

Dunno how you guys even know if you are weak or not considering it's a non stop zerg with mids, even the mid stealthers constantly zerg.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:51 AM by jelzinga_EU
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:46 AM
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:29 AM
la doesnt hit everytime, it has a 50% mist chance on most things.

If your LA is sufficiently high enough(i have 30+16 and have like 15.55% miss chance) it's going to have the standard 85%hit/15% miss vs a target with no defensive bonuses or penalties.

CD/DW are no different they just have a % chance to even swing based on spec obviously. It can miss or be evaded/blocked/parried just as often as LA if it even swings at all.

If your offhand has a 50% miss chance it's likely crafted and not enchanted (15% + 0% bonus vs 35% bonus armor = 50% miss chance).

There is a small difference: CD/DW offhand takes its weaponskill (and miss) from their mainhand weapon-line. So assuming they got at least 52 composite weapon they are fine in that aspect. LA has its own WS, and as such you need 52 composite LA for the same effect. The difference isn't enormous, but at low LA it is a few % in total misses/blocks/evades/parries compared to CD/DW. Since miss/block/evade-rates are printed in combatlog, you can see it quite clearly when you go CS-spec as a SB, as your total LA is most likely <52 on a SB with such a spec. Damage-shields (which was nerfed, but the effect is still there) also hurts a LA-user a little more. In theory SB's might be better at proccing volatile procs on their OH, but they also proc more reactives due to that mechanic.

Personally I do not feel that LA-mechanics are a problem for a SB, it is the styles (no instant off-evade stun, and for LA-specifically no side-stun, no frontal-positional, no side-positionals) and how other sneaks can spec a damage-type your armour is weak to but as a SB you can't do that.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:18 AM by Joc
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:29 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:24 AM
http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?160659-LA-Mechanics


"It�s interesting, and perhaps unexpected for some people, to notice that while the mainhand damage of a LA user is often considerably lower than that of a CD/DW user when styling, the fact that the offhand hits 100% of the time makes up for this perfectly over time.� In small quantities, as before, LA may perform in a superior or inferior manner to CD/DW, depending on the luck of the offhand swing � over time, that key critical component, however, all is balanced."


"
For the first time in any of our tests, we finally start to see Left Axe outdamage both Celtic Dual and Dual Wield.� While CD/DW do more damage from the mainhand on average unhasted, when counting the haste effect, this damage is actually less in the long run � the reliable haste on every swing allows a LA user to very slightly boost his DPS over that of a CD/DW user, as long as melee styles are used during this time.� Note, of course, that the actual amount this DPS varies will increase when the speed difference between the two weapons is larger, while it will decrease when the speed difference is smaller."

la doesnt hit everytime, it has a 50% miss chance on most things. swing does not equal hit, but hey keep scouring postcount for shit that does not apply here.

The ONLY way you are getting 50% miss chance on offhand is if its not enchanted. I don't believe that for a second.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:22 AM by Riac
Joc wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:18 AM
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:29 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:24 AM
http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?160659-LA-Mechanics


"It�s interesting, and perhaps unexpected for some people, to notice that while the mainhand damage of a LA user is often considerably lower than that of a CD/DW user when styling, the fact that the offhand hits 100% of the time makes up for this perfectly over time.� In small quantities, as before, LA may perform in a superior or inferior manner to CD/DW, depending on the luck of the offhand swing � over time, that key critical component, however, all is balanced."


"
For the first time in any of our tests, we finally start to see Left Axe outdamage both Celtic Dual and Dual Wield.� While CD/DW do more damage from the mainhand on average unhasted, when counting the haste effect, this damage is actually less in the long run � the reliable haste on every swing allows a LA user to very slightly boost his DPS over that of a CD/DW user, as long as melee styles are used during this time.� Note, of course, that the actual amount this DPS varies will increase when the speed difference between the two weapons is larger, while it will decrease when the speed difference is smaller."

la doesnt hit everytime, it has a 50% miss chance on most things. swing does not equal hit, but hey keep scouring postcount for shit that does not apply here.

The ONLY way you are getting 50% miss chance on offhand is if its not enchanted. I don't believe that for a second.

if you would have continued to read the forum, i told him he was right. i made a new temp and that oh weap was not enchanted.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:54 AM by Mavella
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:51 AM
There is a small difference: CD/DW offhand takes its weaponskill (and miss) from their mainhand weapon-line. So assuming they got at least 52 composite weapon they are fine in that aspect. LA has its own WS, and as such you need 52 composite LA for the same effect. The difference isn't enormous, but at low LA it is a few % in total misses/blocks/evades/parries compared to CD/DW. Since miss/block/evade-rates are printed in combatlog, you can see it quite clearly when you go CS-spec as a SB, as your total LA is most likely <52 on a SB with such a spec. Damage-shields (which was nerfed, but the effect is still there) also hurts a LA-user a little more. In theory SB's might be better at proccing volatile procs on their OH, but they also proc more reactives due to that mechanic.

Personally I do not feel that LA-mechanics are a problem for a SB, it is the styles (no instant off-evade stun, and for LA-specifically no side-stun, no frontal-positional, no side-positionals) and how other sneaks can spec a damage-type your armour is weak to but as a SB you can't do that.

I know for straight up miss changed the difference for me from 21+15 to 30+16 was like 16.5% to 15.5% from what I remember. All using 44CS and all CS style of course. I didn't recall seeing any major differences on the main vs offhand vs passive defenses so that fits your few percent total across all checks.

I'd also like to see some of those LA changes you mentioned. I noticed they did things like swap snowsquall to 39 and FG to 29 on live. I'd be for that change so I'd at least have the option of a stun before rr9 again lol.

Looks like they also got rid of all(?) 1 part evade stuns and even the dreaded dragonfang is now a follow up style.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 7:03 AM by Mauriac
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:54 AM
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:51 AM
There is a small difference: CD/DW offhand takes its weaponskill (and miss) from their mainhand weapon-line. So assuming they got at least 52 composite weapon they are fine in that aspect. LA has its own WS, and as such you need 52 composite LA for the same effect. The difference isn't enormous, but at low LA it is a few % in total misses/blocks/evades/parries compared to CD/DW. Since miss/block/evade-rates are printed in combatlog, you can see it quite clearly when you go CS-spec as a SB, as your total LA is most likely <52 on a SB with such a spec. Damage-shields (which was nerfed, but the effect is still there) also hurts a LA-user a little more. In theory SB's might be better at proccing volatile procs on their OH, but they also proc more reactives due to that mechanic.

Personally I do not feel that LA-mechanics are a problem for a SB, it is the styles (no instant off-evade stun, and for LA-specifically no side-stun, no frontal-positional, no side-positionals) and how other sneaks can spec a damage-type your armour is weak to but as a SB you can't do that.

I know for straight up miss changed the difference for me from 21+15 to 30+16 was like 16.5% to 15.5% from what I remember. All using 44CS and all CS style of course. I didn't recall seeing any major differences on the main vs offhand vs passive defenses so that fits your few percent total across all checks.

I'd also like to see some of those LA changes you mentioned. I noticed they did things like swap snowsquall to 39 and FG to 29 on live. I'd be for that change so I'd at least have the option of a stun before rr9 again lol.

Looks like they also got rid of all(?) 1 part evade stuns and even the dreaded dragonfang is now a follow up style.

I'm ok with others having their 1 part evade stuns. I'm ok with the durations in their current form too. I would like to see a 4 sec 1 part stun for SBs or something at this point though. Damage table adjustments clearly not going to happen nor is a second damage type. Would be nice to be able to land a stun once in a while. 2 parter rarely lands.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:29 AM by Bradekes
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:54 AM
I'd also like to see some of those LA changes you mentioned. I noticed they did things like swap snowsquall to 39 and FG to 29 on live. I'd be for that change so I'd at least have the option of a stun before rr9 again lol.


You have a 6sec stun in axe at 34 and 7 sec stun in sword at 39... You don't need to be rr9 for a stun as of right now tho :p
Fri 5 Apr 2019 11:02 AM by armath
Fooj Fujiyama wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:38 AM
Wow 14 pages that didn't need to exist. News flash there are plenty of classes that need buffs more than shadowblades. Assassin life so ruff on phoenix huh? QQ

Dunno how you guys even know if you are weak or not considering it's a non stop zerg with mids, even the mid stealthers constantly zerg.

Well, hopefully people playing those other classes needing buffs, are calling it out - and hopefully getting changes that are due.

And regarding the zerging, I havent been in one single group on my shadowblade yet. 100% solo. Also I disengage as soon as I get adders from my realm., and I gotta say, not getting added is very rare. There is combined perhaps 5 people who wont add, or "finish you off" after you finish a 1v1.

I gotta say that I dont see the same amount of stealthzergs on mid, as I do from hib/alb. Its not rare to see 4-5 hib stealthers running on stick, but I hardly see more than a mid stealth duo.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 1:12 PM by Mavella
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:29 AM
You have a 6sec stun in axe at 34 and 7 sec stun in sword at 39... You don't need to be rr9 for a stun as of right now tho :p

Yes and I either have to give up a strong proc on sword
or keep sword at 39 not allowing me to train LA as high as possible for my RR as CS spec. I am forced to choose to lower my dps potential or keep access to the stun utility.

The sword proc is so good it's the only thing that allows sbs combete with strong bladeshade and blade rangers right now getting past those armor tables. If I didn't use it I know I'd lose more of those fights than I already do.

Let's look at current stun access

Infs have
6sec 1part @ 15(!) thrust (wtf?)
9sec 1 part @ 50 thrust
5sec 2 part @ 34 slash
7sec 2 part @ 44 DW (as slash Infs get to RR 7+ they can easily afford this with their extra spec points making the slash one obsolete anyway)

NS have
4sec 1 part @ 21(!)blades
5sec 1 part @ 25 pierce
4sec side stun @ 18CD which no one seems to have difficulty executing

SBs havr
7sec 2 part @ 39 sword
7sec 2 part @ 39 LA
6sec 2 part @ 34 Axe (No one should even consider using right now due to debuff stacking rules. Sorry but that's the reality)


Remind me which of my counterparts need to drop their stun utility from RR4-RR9 to maximize their damage potential again? Oh right, none.

Like I said I see they did away pretty much completely with 1 part evade stuns on live. I'd totally be in favor of every other stealthers joining us in 2 part evade stun hell!
Fri 5 Apr 2019 1:26 PM by Bradekes
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 1:12 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:29 AM
Remind me which of my counterparts need to drop their stun utility from RR4-RR9 to maximize their damage potential again? Oh right, none.

Like I said I see they did away pretty much completely with 1 part evade stuns on live. I'd totally be in favor of every other stealthers joining us in 2 part evade stun hell!

I know what every other class gets.. I'm not saying it's fair in that regard morely it seems more random than anything.. But you still don't need rr9 to have a stun and that's my point.. All assassin get a 7 second reliable stun off perf so vs other assassin it's kinda tough but doabke but vs everyone else you got a good thing if you can use your openners effectively
Fri 5 Apr 2019 1:31 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 1:12 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:29 AM
You have a 6sec stun in axe at 34 and 7 sec stun in sword at 39... You don't need to be rr9 for a stun as of right now tho :p

Yes and I either have to give up a strong proc on sword
or keep sword at 39 not allowing me to train LA as high as possible for my RR as CS spec. I am forced to choose to lower my dps potential or keep access to the stun utility.

The sword proc is so good it's the only thing that allows sbs combete with strong bladeshade and blade rangers right now getting past those armor tables. If I didn't use it I know I'd lose more of those fights than I already do.

Let's look at current stun access

Infs have
6sec 1part @ 15(!) thrust (wtf?)
9sec 1 part @ 50 thrust
5sec 2 part @ 34 slash
7sec 2 part @ 44 DW (as slash Infs get to RR 7+ they can easily afford this with their extra spec points making the slash one obsolete anyway)

NS have
4sec 1 part @ 21(!)blades
5sec 1 part @ 25 pierce
4sec side stun @ 18CD which no one seems to have difficulty executing

SBs havr
7sec 2 part @ 39 sword
7sec 2 part @ 39 LA
6sec 2 part @ 34 Axe (No one should even consider using right now due to debuff stacking rules. Sorry but that's the reality)


Remind me which of my counterparts need to drop their stun utility from RR4-RR9 to maximize their damage potential again? Oh right, none.

Like I said I see they did away pretty much completely with 1 part evade stuns on live. I'd totally be in favor of every other stealthers joining us in 2 part evade stun hell!

Yup, that last part is true. I'm 100% for either adding a 1 part evade stun within the 15-25 spec range for SB's or as you stated, equalizing all combat stuns to 2 part chains.

Given that hybrids and light tanks with shield access can spec 9s slam at 42, I'd be more in favor of the 1 part evade stuns remaining and including 1 for shadow blades.

I see no reason why reavers/thanes/mercenaries/blademasters (I would say pally too but they're cringe worthy here) have access to 9s slam. I didn't add scouts because that is their only saving grace.

But specifically to you Midgard, Thanes, /slap every one of those Odin lovers - throw around 230 dps smite DD's, 200+ 2h styles AND can 9s slam. I will eliminate all of you.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 1:51 PM by Mavella
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:29 AM
I know what every other class gets.. I'm not saying it's fair in that regard morely it seems more random than anything.. But you still don't need rr9 to have a stun and that's my point.. All assassin get a 7 second reliable stun off perf so vs other assassin it's kinda tough but doabke but vs everyone else you got a good thing if you can use your openners effectively


You're trying to compare CD to all other IN COMBAT stuns? Am I back in the twilight zone?

Should I ask adds to hold on while I get back on stealth after killing someone so I can perf and CD them?

I swear to God it's like talking to children on this board.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:07 PM by Bradekes
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
You're trying to compare CD to all other IN COMBAT stuns? Am I back in the twilight zone?

Should I ask adds to hold on while I get back on stealth after killing someone so I can perf and CD them?

I swear to God it's like talking to children on this board.

No SB are too defensive and like to speed read instead of digest the words being said to them.. I said CD is good for most classes as in it is a great move and is effectively a 1 part stun chain as Perf is 100% guaranteed to hit if performed correctly...

Otherwise I said SB do have to work for their stun in assassin vs assassin...
Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:27 PM by Mauriac
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 1:12 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:29 AM
You have a 6sec stun in axe at 34 and 7 sec stun in sword at 39... You don't need to be rr9 for a stun as of right now tho :p

Yes and I either have to give up a strong proc on sword
or keep sword at 39 not allowing me to train LA as high as possible for my RR as CS spec. I am forced to choose to lower my dps potential or keep access to the stun utility.

The sword proc is so good it's the only thing that allows sbs combete with strong bladeshade and blade rangers right now getting past those armor tables. If I didn't use it I know I'd lose more of those fights than I already do.

Let's look at current stun access

Infs have
6sec 1part @ 15(!) thrust (wtf?)
9sec 1 part @ 50 thrust
5sec 2 part @ 34 slash
7sec 2 part @ 44 DW (as slash Infs get to RR 7+ they can easily afford this with their extra spec points making the slash one obsolete anyway)

NS have
4sec 1 part @ 21(!)blades
5sec 1 part @ 25 pierce
4sec side stun @ 18CD which no one seems to have difficulty executing

SBs havr
7sec 2 part @ 39 sword
7sec 2 part @ 39 LA
6sec 2 part @ 34 Axe (No one should even consider using right now due to debuff stacking rules. Sorry but that's the reality)


Remind me which of my counterparts need to drop their stun utility from RR4-RR9 to maximize their damage potential again? Oh right, none.

Like I said I see they did away pretty much completely with 1 part evade stuns on live. I'd totally be in favor of every other stealthers joining us in 2 part evade stun hell!

Amen
Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:39 PM by Mavella
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:07 PM
No SB are too defensive and like to speed read instead of digest the words being said to them.. I said CD is good for most classes as in it is a great move and is effectively a 1 part stun chain as Perf is 100% guaranteed to hit if performed correctly...

Otherwise I said SB do have to work for their stun in assassin vs assassin...

You call the style changes "seemingly random" but they are the culmination of incremental changes throughout the ToA and Cata area. They might have made sense in a world of bludgeon, legendary weapons, artifacts, master levels, champion levels, and a completely different RA structure but they don't necessarily make sense here.

You then bring up CD which has absolutely nothing to do with my damage vs utility argument. EVERY SB must make their damage vs utility choice until high RR when they can spec 44+LA/34+CS(rr7+) or 44CS/39LA(rr9). I don't care if other the classes keep their damage and utility with no thought involved. I just want the same for SB.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:22 PM by Bradekes
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:39 PM
You call the style changes "seemingly random" but they are the culmination of incremental changes throughout the ToA and Cata area. They might have made sense in a world of bludgeon, legendary weapons, artifacts, master levels, champion levels, and a completely different RA structure but they don't necessarily make sense here.

You then bring up CD which has absolutely nothing to do with my damage vs utility argument. EVERY SB must make their damage vs utility choice until high RR when they can spec 44+LA/34+CS(rr7+) or 44CS/39LA(rr9). I don't care if other the classes keep their damage and utility with no thought involved. I just want the same for SB.

Grass is always greener on the other side.. If you get something you gotta lose something.. Especially after all the changes they've made already.. I've already stated my thoughts in the book of SB threads:
1. Remove armor table all together as it's balanced acrossed the board...
2. If SB want first part stun move stun to first style and lower duration 4-5s depending on level of style.

Both may be too much so first it should be determined if the armor table adjustment balances things out. So sorry if I don't want to keep repeating myself as these are theoretically unnecessary changes to begin with...
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:49 PM by Mavella
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:22 PM
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:39 PM
You call the style changes "seemingly random" but they are the culmination of incremental changes throughout the ToA and Cata area. They might have made sense in a world of bludgeon, legendary weapons, artifacts, master levels, champion levels, and a completely different RA structure but they don't necessarily make sense here.

You then bring up CD which has absolutely nothing to do with my damage vs utility argument. EVERY SB must make their damage vs utility choice until high RR when they can spec 44+LA/34+CS(rr7+) or 44CS/39LA(rr9). I don't care if other the classes keep their damage and utility with no thought involved. I just want the same for SB.

Grass is always greener on the other side.. If you get something you gotta lose something.. Especially after all the changes they've made already.. I've already stated my thoughts in the book of SB threads:
1. Remove armor table all together as it's balanced acrossed the board...
2. If SB want first part stun move stun to first style and lower duration 4-5s depending on level of style.

Both may be too much so first it should be determined if the armor table adjustment balances things out. So sorry if I don't want to keep repeating myself as these are theoretically unnecessary changes to begin with...


What did inf/ns/rangers lose exactly?
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:14 PM by Bradekes
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:49 PM
What did inf/ns/rangers lose exactly?

They gained exactly what SB gained evade styles vs block/parry styles... They gained nothing more than SB
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:17 PM by Riac
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:22 PM
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:39 PM
You call the style changes "seemingly random" but they are the culmination of incremental changes throughout the ToA and Cata area. They might have made sense in a world of bludgeon, legendary weapons, artifacts, master levels, champion levels, and a completely different RA structure but they don't necessarily make sense here.

You then bring up CD which has absolutely nothing to do with my damage vs utility argument. EVERY SB must make their damage vs utility choice until high RR when they can spec 44+LA/34+CS(rr7+) or 44CS/39LA(rr9). I don't care if other the classes keep their damage and utility with no thought involved. I just want the same for SB.

Grass is always greener on the other side.. If you get something you gotta lose something.. Especially after all the changes they've made already.. I've already stated my thoughts in the book of SB threads:
1. Remove armor table all together as it's balanced acrossed the board...
2. If SB want first part stun move stun to first style and lower duration 4-5s depending on level of style.

Both may be too much so first it should be determined if the armor table adjustment balances things out. So sorry if I don't want to keep repeating myself as these are theoretically unnecessary changes to begin with...

This is actually a new position for bradekes, not more a week or two ago he was saying there is no proof that sbs need ant buffs.... im assuming the word buffs is synonymous with changes in the context of these threads.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:22 PM by Bradekes
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:17 PM
This is actually a new position for bradekes, not more a week or two ago he was saying there is no proof that sbs need ant buffs.... im assuming the word buffs is synonymous with changes in the context of these threads.

I'm still being consistent... There is no data, but I think people would enjoy the game more if all armor table resists were removed.. If that happens everyones damage becomes normalized.. SB will always find a reason to feel inadequate however
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:57 PM by dbeattie71
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:22 PM
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:17 PM
This is actually a new position for bradekes, not more a week or two ago he was saying there is no proof that sbs need ant buffs.... im assuming the word buffs is synonymous with changes in the context of these threads.

I'm still being consistent... There is no data, but I think people would enjoy the game more if all armor table resists were removed.. If that happens everyones damage becomes normalized.. SB will always find a reason to feel inadequate however

If that happens Mid will have 300 more than hib in prime times versus 200. Heck I’d move to Mid and join the other 100+ Skalds, Shaman, BDs, and SBs.

Today 1.5 times Skalds than Bards, then I realized. Omg, I haven’t run speed 6 here yet 😮
Fri 5 Apr 2019 7:17 PM by Bradekes
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:57 PM
If that happens Mid will have 300 more than hib in prime times versus 200. Heck I’d move to Mid and join the other 100+ Skalds, Shaman, BDs, and SBs.

Today 1.5 times Skalds than Bards, then I realized. Omg, I haven’t run speed 6 here yet 😮

How would this benefit mid more than anyone else?
Fri 5 Apr 2019 7:27 PM by dbeattie71
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 7:17 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:57 PM
If that happens Mid will have 300 more than hib in prime times versus 200. Heck I’d move to Mid and join the other 100+ Skalds, Shaman, BDs, and SBs.

Today 1.5 times Skalds than Bards, then I realized. Omg, I haven’t run speed 6 here yet 😮

How would this benefit mid more than anyone else?

The non noobcake SBs would be unbeatable.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 7:35 PM by Bradekes
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 7:27 PM
The non noobcake SBs would be unbeatable.

No way.. Thrust inf, pierce NS would still be able to compete with higher WS
Fri 5 Apr 2019 8:11 PM by Mavella
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:14 PM
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:49 PM
What did inf/ns/rangers lose exactly?

They gained exactly what SB gained evade styles vs block/parry styles... They gained nothing more than SB

You say the "Grass always seems greener" and SBs got what inf/ns got then immediately concede that SBs SHOULD be given what inf/NS got. These mental gymnastics are astounding.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 9:05 PM by Bradekes
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 8:11 PM
You say the "Grass always seems greener" and SBs got what inf/ns got then immediately concede that SBs SHOULD be given what inf/NS got. These mental gymnastics are astounding.

I am saying you think NS and Inf have it so easy... And yes SB got exactly what NS and INF got, they got their non-evade reactionary changed to evade. Their styles are different but that is just how it is, they didn't edit any of the effects of the styles just the reactionary. I also said that if SB were given anything it should be after an adjustment to armor tables, like every armor every realm being neutral.. If for some reason there is some discrepancy in SB win/lose ratio after that then consider adjusting the evade chain to first style evade, but not on LA only on Sword and Axe because NS and Inf only have reactionary stuns from their main weapon line.

After explaining everything again... I still do not believe there is anything wrong with SB as a class balance wise in any scope... But these are the changes I would be okay with seeings they are pretty much null and balanced..
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:52 PM by Mauriac
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 9:05 PM
Mavella wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 8:11 PM
You say the "Grass always seems greener" and SBs got what inf/ns got then immediately concede that SBs SHOULD be given what inf/NS got. These mental gymnastics are astounding.

I am saying you think NS and Inf have it so easy... And yes SB got exactly what NS and INF got, they got their non-evade reactionary changed to evade. Their styles are different but that is just how it is, they didn't edit any of the effects of the styles just the reactionary. I also said that if SB were given anything it should be after an adjustment to armor tables, like every armor every realm being neutral.. If for some reason there is some discrepancy in SB win/lose ratio after that then consider adjusting the evade chain to first style evade, but not on LA only on Sword and Axe because NS and Inf only have reactionary stuns from their main weapon line.

After explaining everything again... I still do not believe there is anything wrong with SB as a class balance wise in any scope... But these are the changes I would be okay with seeings they are pretty much null and balanced..

Except that both inf and NS have 1 part evade stuns at sub 30 spec for thrust AND slash and sb has.... Nothing. Just another 2 part at 39 sword and 34 axe. Cmon man.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 11:02 PM by Bradekes
Mauriac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:52 PM
Except that both inf and NS have 1 part evade stuns at sub 30 spec for thrust AND slash and sb has.... Nothing. Just another 2 part at 39 sword and 34 axe. Cmon man.

The only valid complaint is INF level 15 style being 6 seconds. The others follow suit... You also have to keep in mind alb has always been stun heavy. You don't hear anyone complaining about a level 15 second part any time style from crush being OP because Alb is literally the only realm with access to that... You keep repeating yourself, and I will not be doing that... Saying it more than once isn't emphasizing it for me, maybe for you...

What other weapon line in Mid has such a long stun after a reaction? SB just follow that trend... and so does their leather armor type with crush being neutral on all mid armor... You just want SB to have all these custom changes that just isn't the way Midgard was built...
Sat 6 Apr 2019 12:21 AM by dbeattie71
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 11:02 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:52 PM
Except that both inf and NS have 1 part evade stuns at sub 30 spec for thrust AND slash and sb has.... Nothing. Just another 2 part at 39 sword and 34 axe. Cmon man.

The only valid complaint is INF level 15 style being 6 seconds. The others follow suit... You also have to keep in mind alb has always been stun heavy. You don't hear anyone complaining about a level 15 second part any time style from crush being OP because Alb is literally the only realm with access to that... You keep repeating yourself, and I will not be doing that... Saying it more than once isn't emphasizing it for me, maybe for you...

What other weapon line in Mid has such a long stun after a reaction? SB just follow that trend... and so does their leather armor type with crush being neutral on all mid armor... You just want SB to have all these custom changes that just isn't the way Midgard was built...

Mid doesn’t need longer duration stuns, by the time the short ones wear off 2 fgs have added to the 1 fg helping the 2 SBs and 3 hunters kill the lone Shade. 😂
Sat 6 Apr 2019 12:23 AM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 12:21 AM
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 11:02 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:52 PM
Except that both inf and NS have 1 part evade stuns at sub 30 spec for thrust AND slash and sb has.... Nothing. Just another 2 part at 39 sword and 34 axe. Cmon man.

The only valid complaint is INF level 15 style being 6 seconds. The others follow suit... You also have to keep in mind alb has always been stun heavy. You don't hear anyone complaining about a level 15 second part any time style from crush being OP because Alb is literally the only realm with access to that... You keep repeating yourself, and I will not be doing that... Saying it more than once isn't emphasizing it for me, maybe for you...

What other weapon line in Mid has such a long stun after a reaction? SB just follow that trend... and so does their leather armor type with crush being neutral on all mid armor... You just want SB to have all these custom changes that just isn't the way Midgard was built...

Mid doesn’t need longer duration stuns, by the time the short ones wear off 2 fgs have added to the 1 fg helping the 2 SBs and 3 hunters kill the lone Shade. 😂

just side stun them
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:08 AM by Mauriac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 12:21 AM
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 11:02 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:52 PM
Except that both inf and NS have 1 part evade stuns at sub 30 spec for thrust AND slash and sb has.... Nothing. Just another 2 part at 39 sword and 34 axe. Cmon man.

The only valid complaint is INF level 15 style being 6 seconds. The others follow suit... You also have to keep in mind alb has always been stun heavy. You don't hear anyone complaining about a level 15 second part any time style from crush being OP because Alb is literally the only realm with access to that... You keep repeating yourself, and I will not be doing that... Saying it more than once isn't emphasizing it for me, maybe for you...

What other weapon line in Mid has such a long stun after a reaction? SB just follow that trend... and so does their leather armor type with crush being neutral on all mid armor... You just want SB to have all these custom changes that just isn't the way Midgard was built...

Mid doesn’t need longer duration stuns, by the time the short ones wear off 2 fgs have added to the 1 fg helping the 2 SBs and 3 hunters kill the lone Shade. 😂

The one in 20 times that stun lands
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:12 AM by Mauriac
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 11:02 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:52 PM
Except that both inf and NS have 1 part evade stuns at sub 30 spec for thrust AND slash and sb has.... Nothing. Just another 2 part at 39 sword and 34 axe. Cmon man.

The only valid complaint is INF level 15 style being 6 seconds. The others follow suit... You also have to keep in mind alb has always been stun heavy. You don't hear anyone complaining about a level 15 second part any time style from crush being OP because Alb is literally the only realm with access to that... You keep repeating yourself, and I will not be doing that... Saying it more than once isn't emphasizing it for me, maybe for you...

What other weapon line in Mid has such a long stun after a reaction? SB just follow that trend... and so does their leather armor type with crush being neutral on all mid armor... You just want SB to have all these custom changes that just isn't the way Midgard was built...

What do you mean keep repeating myself? Your argument makes exactly zero sense. We've already discussed ad nauseum that infs and NS have favorable style changes they didn't have at this patch level. Custom. Also, all of us should have dodger at this patch level but we don't. Custom. Also, we should have 50 percent defense pen but here it's 25. Custom.

Seriously, base your argument against this on how we shouldn't have more custom shit because that's not how Midgard was built.... This entire shard is heavily custom. Don't defend something because "that's not how it was built" unless you're going to argue to revert all the style changes and give me envenom swap back because guess what, "that's how this game was built"
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:25 AM by Bradekes
Mauriac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:12 AM
What do you mean keep repeating myself? Your argument makes exactly zero sense. We've already discussed ad nauseum that infs and NS have favorable style changes they didn't have at this patch level.

SB also have favorable class changes they didn't have at this patch level so I'm not understanding your point.... Frost cut was a block style, along with valkyries shield.... These are your openners to your stuns so maybe get off your high horse... No matter how you slice it SB got the same changes...

But I'm done talking with you because all you want to hear is someone agreeing with you though you're points may be true it doesn't mean there's something wrong.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:30 AM by Riac
Bradekes wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:25 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:12 AM
What do you mean keep repeating myself? Your argument makes exactly zero sense. We've already discussed ad nauseum that infs and NS have favorable style changes they didn't have at this patch level.

SB also have favorable class changes they didn't have at this patch level so I'm not understanding your point.... Frost cut was a block style, along with valkyries shield.... These are your openners to your stuns so maybe get off your high horse... No matter how you slice it SB got the same changes...

But I'm done talking with you because all you want to hear is someone agreeing with you though you're points may be true it doesn't mean there's something wrong.

the sword stun was always evade based, im not sure of the name, it is frost cut right? but critblades always went sword for the stun. thats not custom to here.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:49 AM by Mavella
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:30 AM
Bradekes wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:25 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:12 AM
What do you mean keep repeating myself? Your argument makes exactly zero sense. We've already discussed ad nauseum that infs and NS have favorable style changes they didn't have at this patch level.

SB also have favorable class changes they didn't have at this patch level so I'm not understanding your point.... Frost cut was a block style, along with valkyries shield.... These are your openners to your stuns so maybe get off your high horse... No matter how you slice it SB got the same changes...

But I'm done talking with you because all you want to hear is someone agreeing with you though you're points may be true it doesn't mean there's something wrong.

the sword stun was always evade based, im not sure of the name, it is frost cut right? but critblades always went sword for the stun. thats not custom to here.

It was a change made well after the 1.65 patch I had mentioned in a previous post. I looked through old patch notes and there was no 1 defenitive style rework patch Mythic seemingly did them piecemeal over time.

Ultimately inf/ns make out like gangbusters giving them utility they didn't have with certain specs with these changes and SBs got the equivalent to a hot wet fart to the face.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:51 AM by Riac
Mavella wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:49 AM
Riac wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:30 AM
Bradekes wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:25 AM
SB also have favorable class changes they didn't have at this patch level so I'm not understanding your point.... Frost cut was a block style, along with valkyries shield.... These are your openners to your stuns so maybe get off your high horse... No matter how you slice it SB got the same changes...

But I'm done talking with you because all you want to hear is someone agreeing with you though you're points may be true it doesn't mean there's something wrong.

the sword stun was always evade based, im not sure of the name, it is frost cut right? but critblades always went sword for the stun. thats not custom to here.

It was a change made well after the 1.65 patch I had mentioned in a previous post. I looked through old patch notes and there was no 1 defenitive style rework patch Mythic seemingly did them piecemeal over time.

Ultimately inf/ns make out like gangbusters giving them utility they didn't have with certain specs with these changes and SBs got the equivalent to a hot wet fart to the face.

i looked through patch notes one night. bludgeon came in 1.82 (just as a frame of reference), and the stuns for blades came in 1.89. i dont have the dates of release but it should be easy to find for anyone that cares w/ the numbers.
Sat 6 Apr 2019 4:07 AM by dante`afk
An example, that if you debuff properly a RR8 Slashranger will not hit you hard. (going throug the log after the fight)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/406859090

My stats:
Highest MH swing: 123
Highest LH swing: 45

His stats:
Highest MH swing: 139
Highest OH swing: 75

So he had lifebane, 47 debuff, 17 debuff, 50str/con debuff from weapon proc, lethargy, weariness, disease on him, reapplied these after he purged too. Stil lost
Sat 6 Apr 2019 12:50 PM by Bradekes
dante`afk wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 4:07 AM
So he had lifebane, 47 debuff, 17 debuff, 50str/con debuff from weapon proc, lethargy, weariness, disease on him, reapplied these after he purged too. Stil lost

Now this fight was very close at a certain point.. I think if you applied disease on him right after his purge you would of won, his heals would have been halved... But I can see the frustration a bit, problem is he is 2 RR higher than you and you missed perf.. 3 possible ways to of changed the outcome of that fight though you are pretty on point with your styles and swapping
Sat 6 Apr 2019 7:35 PM by Padatoo
dante`afk wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 4:07 AM
You pretty much brought him to 10-15% hp twice ,and he had to use all 3 heals +he had luck with heal proc.As Bradekes just said applying decease on time would turn the table even despite the unlucky procs.Btw changing to 2.4 Hand Axe would add 3% dps for the sake of minmaxing (the offhand 3% haste gives just like 1% dps total).

Bradekes wrote:
dante`afk wrote:
Sat 6 Apr 2019 4:07 AM
So he had lifebane, 47 debuff, 17 debuff, 50str/con debuff from weapon proc, lethargy, weariness, disease on him, reapplied these after he purged too. Stil lost

Now this fight was very close at a certain point.. I think if you applied disease on him right after his purge you would of won, his heals would have been halved... But I can see the frustration a bit, problem is he is 2 RR higher than you and you missed perf.. 3 possible ways to of changed the outcome of that fight though you are pretty on point with your styles and swapping
you mean he needs to upgrade and stop swapping with mouse clicks?
Sun 7 Apr 2019 1:29 AM by dante`afk
Considered swapping to 2.4 offhand, but there's no 16.5dps 2.4.s offhand afaik?


12 of my weapons are macrobound swap, the 4 you see in the inventory are manually and last resort, the fight did not last long enough to go through all of them. I carry 18 weapons with me. Swap was on point.

To reiterate again, not complaining here - it was a good fight, just showing what's going on.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 7:31 AM by Steelhead23rus
armath wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:26 PM
"Unintended" - you do realise that people did this on Live too right - and still do most likely, those 15 people who play there... It was never "unintended", its a completely normal function of the game, which has always been specially good on a shadowblade, since the swing is guarenteed on the offhand.

Which class do you play?

People cannot do it on live since poisones system was totally reworked. Tbh..
Sun 7 Apr 2019 7:41 AM by Steelhead23rus
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:09 AM
sabyrtuth wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:05 AM
Slarsen2 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:57 AM
Shadowblades are the strongest of All 3 assasiens by a mile, and they get even more op after rr7 scaling Wise. If anything they need a offhand dmg nerf

Agreed.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7183&start=190
yea they need an oh dmg nerf lol

check out the screenshots vs a r4 ranger.... aka someone who cant debuff your dmg. imagine if the sbs dmg was debuffed how much of a joke it would be.

Just curious, what else did you expected from a slash resistant class ?
Sun 7 Apr 2019 7:46 AM by Riac
Steelhead23rus wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 7:41 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:09 AM
sabyrtuth wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:05 AM
Agreed.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7183&start=190
yea they need an oh dmg nerf lol

check out the screenshots vs a r4 ranger.... aka someone who cant debuff your dmg. imagine if the sbs dmg was debuffed how much of a joke it would be.

Just curious, what else did you expected from a slash resistant class ?

you must be new here. id expect to not have a 20% dmg spread between their resist and my vulnerability.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 2:20 PM by Padatoo
dante`afk wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 1:29 AM
Considered swapping to 2.4 offhand, but there's no 16.5dps 2.4.s offhand

lvl51 rogs
Mon 8 Apr 2019 1:16 AM by Mauriac
Padatoo wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 2:20 PM
dante`afk wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 1:29 AM
Considered swapping to 2.4 offhand, but there's no 16.5dps 2.4.s offhand

lvl51 rogs

Dunno why 2.4 can't just be craftable....
Mon 8 Apr 2019 2:18 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Good fights the other night @Phixion. Didn't see your name the first time I added on you until I scrolled up to see the emote xD
Wed 10 Apr 2019 1:11 AM by Mauriac
there are a host of off evade styles in sword in the 20s that have followups later. is there no reason we cant get a 3 second stun off something? i'd take a 3 second stun at this point for something.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 1:28 PM by Sepplord
just a heads-up for anyone wondering: there is probably a change coming, as i have finally bought several dragon-shadow swords.

With my luck they should get obsolete soon
Wed 10 Apr 2019 2:32 PM by Mauriac
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 1:28 PM
just a heads-up for anyone wondering: there is probably a change coming, as i have finally bought several dragon-shadow swords.

With my luck they should get obsolete soon

Well my luck is similar to yours so that means we're all screwed
Wed 10 Apr 2019 6:07 PM by dante`afk
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 1:28 PM
just a heads-up for anyone wondering: there is probably a change coming, as i have finally bought several dragon-shadow swords.

With my luck they should get obsolete soon

Nah, I have 12 of them, No change (leg weapons, blunt spec line) coming
Wed 10 Apr 2019 7:05 PM by Mauriac
dante`afk wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 6:07 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 10 Apr 2019 1:28 PM
just a heads-up for anyone wondering: there is probably a change coming, as i have finally bought several dragon-shadow swords.

With my luck they should get obsolete soon

Nah, I have 12 of them, No change (leg weapons, blunt spec line) coming

Good God I hope they don't do leg weapons. Fml those are dumb....
Thu 11 Apr 2019 5:24 AM by Saosin
Slarsen2 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:57 AM
Shadowblades are the strongest of All 3 assasiens by a mile, and they get even more op after rr7 scaling Wise. If anything they need a offhand dmg nerf
Thu 11 Apr 2019 5:32 AM by Riac
Saosin wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 5:24 AM
Slarsen2 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:57 AM
Shadowblades are the strongest of All 3 assasiens by a mile, and they get even more op after rr7 scaling Wise. If anything they need a offhand dmg nerf

rofl im almost r7 i cant wait to see this opness, nerf that oh 40 pls fucken god!!!!!!
***edit**** was just hitting these dudes for 44 oh
Sat 13 Apr 2019 2:53 PM by Mauriac
gotta love those 40 dmg OH hits..... OP af. 1 type of dmg type, only can get off 2nd in chain, so OP.
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:25 PM by Amp_Phetamine
These threads haven't been locked yet?
Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:06 PM by Mauriac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:25 PM
These threads haven't been locked yet?

No, why would they?
Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:32 PM by daoklover
Please, please give me bludgeon... 🙏😈
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:53 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Mauriac wrote:
Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:06 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:25 PM
These threads haven't been locked yet?

No, why would they?

*reviews last 19 pages*

No idea.
Tue 16 Apr 2019 1:30 PM by Mauriac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:53 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:06 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:25 PM
These threads haven't been locked yet?

No, why would they?

*reviews last 19 pages*

No idea.

Please tell me you actually reviewed the last 19 pages
Tue 16 Apr 2019 1:36 PM by Fk_
MUH SNEAKY BULLY ISNT BULLYING AS MUCH AS ENEMY BULLIES~
Tue 16 Apr 2019 1:47 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 16 Apr 2019 1:30 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:53 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Mon 15 Apr 2019 8:06 PM
No, why would they?

*reviews last 19 pages*

No idea.

Please tell me you actually reviewed the last 19 pages

No chance man, I read them once, not doing it again
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