Buff Shadowblades - Heres Why

Started 31 Mar 2019
by ughsmash
in RvR
Hello Friends,

My goal with this post is to open the eyes of the community to the injustice that is done to the Shadowblade class on this server. Both Nightshades and Infiltrators were BUFFED on this server, while Shadowblades remain relatively untouched, and they were already in a worse place to begin with on this patch. Detailed reasoning and proposed fix below.

Class Identity:
Shadowblade - 2-Handed Weapon
Pros: Harder Perforate Artery
Cons: Slower Creeping Death, which leads to missing it more often / Slower Poison Application / Lose ability to cut defenses, which opens you up for being evaded and punished in Assassin fights

Nightshade - Casted Nuke and Instant Nuke on 20 second timer
Pros: Ranged Damage / Essentially an extra in combat hit for more total fight damage
Cons: N/A

Infiltrator - More Spec Points
Pros: More viable builds / honestly just the best Class Identity perk for Assassins
Cons: N/A

I think my breakdown is very fair here. Shadowblades actually have cons if they wanted to use a 2-Hander, while the other classes get nothing but benefits.

Armor
Mid Leather - Resistant: Thrust Neutral: Crush Weak: Slash
Hib Leather - Resistant: Slash Neutral: Thrust Weak: Crush
Alb Leather - Resistant: Thrust Neutral: Slash Weak: Crush

Armor clearly puts Shadowblades at a disadvantage, while Nightshades get the best of it. Basically if Nightshades or Infiltrators decide to go Slash, which all the top ones on the Herald do, You are going to get hit 15-20 percent harder than you hit them.

Now for the Doozy
Both Infiltrators and Nightshades were BUFFED on this server for their Slash specs. If you went Slash for either of these specs on live, you gave up the ability to evade stun.
Nightshades THIS SERVER ONLY: 21 Blades First Part Chain 4 second Evade Stun
Infiltrators THIS SERVER ONLY: 34 Slash Second Part 5 second Evade Stun / 44 Dual Wield Second Part 7 second Evade Stun

Shadowblades have the 39 Sword second part 7 second evade stun added, but we already have this with 39 Left Axe, so we gain nothing to compensate for Nightshade and Infiltrator getting a stun added to their kit where they did not have it before.

Proposed Buff
Give Shadowblades Bludgeon. It is an ability that has been specifically added before because of the resistance table/class defining trait disadvantage. On top of those issues, this server has added another problem by buffing the Slash specs for Nightshades and Infiltrators giving them access to stuns they did not have access to before.

Bludgeon - A melee damage enhancement in which the Shadowblade’s damage is Crush for the duration of the spell, regardless of which weapon he or she has equipped. 30 second duration, instant cast, 5 minute recast.

This ability would at the most make the odds fair. If you disagree please backup your statement as I tried to be as factual as possible. Shadowblade by the numbers is worse at everything than a Nightshade and Infiltrator and something should be done about it.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 10:41 AM by Forumz
what a logical and well thought out post. I hope the developers take this into serious consideration and potentially add bludgeon or hell even hammer spec to shadowblades. They are lagging very far behind their counterparts on this server and you really need the perfect scenario to play out to win an equal 1v1 fight. I think most of the high rank shadowblades would agree that this is a logical and much needed addition to the class.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 10:57 AM by Aronox
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 10:38 AM
Proposed Buff
Give Shadowblades Bludgeon. It is an ability that has been specifically added before because of the resistance table/class defining trait disadvantage. On top of those issues, this server has added another problem by buffing the Slash specs for Nightshades and Infiltrators giving them access to stuns they did not have access to before.

Bludgeon - A melee damage enhancement in which the Shadowblade’s damage is Crush for the duration of the spell, regardless of which weapon he or she has equipped. 30 second duration, instant cast, 5 minute recast.

This ability would at the most make the odds fair. If you disagree please backup your statement as I tried to be as factual as possible. Shadowblade by the numbers is worse at everything than a Nightshade and Infiltrator and something should be done about it.

THUMBS UP!!!
Sun 31 Mar 2019 11:00 AM by Loki
It will stay the same, just like Amnesia ... because people like easy wins
Sun 31 Mar 2019 12:52 PM by mordouce
yes I agree, there is really a problem of equality
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:35 PM by Mavella
Well we haven't had a 55+ page topic on this thread ready or anything....
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:40 PM by Bumbles
This is a well thought out troll attempt...If SBs are at such a disadvantage please tell me why out of the 3 Sins they are always the #1 played at all times on the server? You are delusional.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:45 PM by Forumz
Bumbles wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:40 PM
This is a well thought out troll attempt...If SBs are at such a disadvantage please tell me why out of the 3 Sins they are always the #1 played at all times on the server? You are delusional.

Maybe because Mid is the most popular realm and if you want to play a sneak there you are relegated to shadowblade or hunter. If you think for a second that if mids had the option to be a nightshade or an infiltrator and would still choose shadowblade YOU are delusional. I think the albion aesthetics are awful and I hate the camelot theme and I'm not a hippy tree loving hib. I am a mid through and through so I will play shadowblade if thats my only sneak option. You bet your ass if I had the option to be a NS or Infil on mid I would take it in an instant. It really is basic math and if it wasn't a problem bludgeon never would have been added on live. This is something that really does need to be considered here.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 2:27 PM by waffel
Yes give SBs blunt so they have even more of an advantage over archers.

Clearly we need to focus first and foremost on making sure every assassin gets buffs before touching other classes.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 2:32 PM by Luluko
Bumbles wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:40 PM
This is a well thought out troll attempt...If SBs are at such a disadvantage please tell me why out of the 3 Sins they are always the #1 played at all times on the server? You are delusional.
If there was no realmtimer you could be sure most sb players would switch over to hib, but since you cant play grp on visible in mid then on the same same day we got a problem here

and sbs are pretty underpowered in the stealther war especially if you look what blade/slash infis/ns got they can specc for 2 damage types while sb can not and also no access to legendary heat weapons or something like that
Sun 31 Mar 2019 2:47 PM by jelzinga_EU
waffel wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 2:27 PM
Yes give SBs blunt so they have even more of an advantage over archers.

Clearly we need to focus first and foremost on making sure every assassin gets buffs before touching other classes.

a) Does -10% dmg to scouts - so only rangers suffer

b) Ranger doesn't need much love against a SB. I would reckon (having played a ranger in this era) at RR6+ you're king of the hill against assassins.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 2:50 PM by Bumbles
Forumz wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:45 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:40 PM
This is a well thought out troll attempt...If SBs are at such a disadvantage please tell me why out of the 3 Sins they are always the #1 played at all times on the server? You are delusional.

Maybe because Mid is the most popular realm and if you want to play a sneak there you are relegated to shadowblade or hunter. If you think for a second that if mids had the option to be a nightshade or an infiltrator and would still choose shadowblade YOU are delusional. I think the albion aesthetics are awful and I hate the camelot theme and I'm not a hippy tree loving hib. I am a mid through and through so I will play shadowblade if thats my only sneak option. You bet your ass if I had the option to be a NS or Infil on mid I would take it in an instant. It really is basic math and if it wasn't a problem bludgeon never would have been added on live. This is something that really does need to be considered here.

So don't play the most populated realm and be one of the masses in the SB stealth zerg? You decided to play mid so you knew what you were getting, don't moan about it now and want changes...I see plenty of SBs doing just fine...
Sun 31 Mar 2019 3:00 PM by Forumz
Bumbles wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 2:50 PM
Forumz wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:45 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:40 PM
This is a well thought out troll attempt...If SBs are at such a disadvantage please tell me why out of the 3 Sins they are always the #1 played at all times on the server? You are delusional.

Maybe because Mid is the most popular realm and if you want to play a sneak there you are relegated to shadowblade or hunter. If you think for a second that if mids had the option to be a nightshade or an infiltrator and would still choose shadowblade YOU are delusional. I think the albion aesthetics are awful and I hate the camelot theme and I'm not a hippy tree loving hib. I am a mid through and through so I will play shadowblade if thats my only sneak option. You bet your ass if I had the option to be a NS or Infil on mid I would take it in an instant. It really is basic math and if it wasn't a problem bludgeon never would have been added on live. This is something that really does need to be considered here.

So don't play the most populated realm and be one of the masses in the SB stealth zerg? You decided to play mid so you knew what you were getting, don't moan about it now and want changes...I see plenty of SBs doing just fine...

Math is math, its infallible. Can a shadowblade beat a nightshade or infiltrator 1v1? Yes. Can they beat any class 1v1? Yes. You are missing the point here entirely and ignoring any of the valid and or mathematical reasons for this change to be made just to try and be argumentative. You didn't even acknowledge the fact that I think alb and hib are stupid realms and I only play mid. I am well aware of what I was getting into and I do just fine on my SB also (I don't zerg, what a stupid comment). This server isn't hardstuck to 1.62. Paladins, Friars and a slew of other classes have had MAJOR changes here. Infiltrators and Nightshades getting a better variety of style options among them. Stop ignoring hard facts to try and argue against a change that every single shadowblade will tell you should happen. Furthermore there are more rr5 and above infiltrators then shadowblades, your argument is weak sauce.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 3:16 PM by waffel
Every SB agrees they want a buff. Shocker.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 4:19 PM by Forumz
waffel wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 3:16 PM
Every SB agrees they want a buff. Shocker.

Must be nice hitting into 16-19% resists when every shadowblade you fight hits into 36-39% resist (depending on racials). Easy to make snarky comments when you are at the top of the food chain lol. If it isn't a big deal then let me wear nightshade leather armor, problem solved. I'd love to have 39% slash resist.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 5:54 PM by djegu
Just because it's impossible to fight a sb without having mid adding to the fight, no don't buff SB, they are already very very strong.
Sure they under perform vs inf or bladeshades but since 1v1 isn't a component of this server, it make no sense to buff them.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 6:10 PM by ughsmash
djegu wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 5:54 PM
Just because it's impossible to fight a sb without having mid adding to the fight, no don't buff SB, they are already very very strong.
Sure they under perform vs inf or bladeshades but since 1v1 isn't a component of this server, it make no sense to buff them.

1v1 is a component of the Assassin play-style. Currently Shadowblade is worse than both Nightshade and Infiltrator, and you admitted it, while saying don't buff Shadowblades just because... What I do not think you are giving enough weight to is the fact that both Nightshade and Infiltrator were buffed on this server.

Both Nightshade and Infiltrator were given a Stun on their Slash lines. Previously to go Slash specs they had to give up all stuns besides Creeping Death. Shadowblade was not given anything to compensate and it is devastating.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 6:57 PM by djegu
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 6:10 PM
djegu wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 5:54 PM
Just because it's impossible to fight a sb without having mid adding to the fight, no don't buff SB, they are already very very strong.
Sure they under perform vs inf or bladeshades but since 1v1 isn't a component of this server, it make no sense to buff them.

1v1 is a component of the Assassin play-style. Currently Shadowblade is worse than both Nightshade and Infiltrator, and you admitted it, while saying don't buff Shadowblades just because... What I do not think you are giving enough weight to is the fact that both Nightshade and Infiltrator were buffed on this server.

Both Nightshade and Infiltrator were given a Stun on their Slash lines. Previously to go Slash specs they had to give up all stuns besides Creeping Death. Shadowblade was not given anything to compensate and it is devastating.

1) Yep i think they are weaker but I need to precise, at lower RR, when the SB can gain RR and spec LA, it's a different story
2) SB have access to LA which is more strong than CS (IMHO)
3) blades stun is 4sc when axe stun is, 6sc (7sc stun for sword)

I understand your point but it's not because SB don't have 1 ability that they are gimped, they have others powerful tools.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:04 PM by ughsmash
djegu wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 6:57 PM
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 6:10 PM
djegu wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 5:54 PM
Just because it's impossible to fight a sb without having mid adding to the fight, no don't buff SB, they are already very very strong.
Sure they under perform vs inf or bladeshades but since 1v1 isn't a component of this server, it make no sense to buff them.

1v1 is a component of the Assassin play-style. Currently Shadowblade is worse than both Nightshade and Infiltrator, and you admitted it, while saying don't buff Shadowblades just because... What I do not think you are giving enough weight to is the fact that both Nightshade and Infiltrator were buffed on this server.

Both Nightshade and Infiltrator were given a Stun on their Slash lines. Previously to go Slash specs they had to give up all stuns besides Creeping Death. Shadowblade was not given anything to compensate and it is devastating.

1) Yep i think they are weaker but I need to precise, at lower RR, when the SB can gain RR and spec LA, it's a different story
2) SB have access to LA which is more strong than CS (IMHO)
3) blades stun is 4sc when axe stun is, 6sc (7sc stun for sword)

I understand your point but it's not because SB don't have 1 ability that they are gimped, they have others powerful tools.

There is not a scenario where Shadowblades can hit a Blade Shade or Slash Infiltrator as hard as they hit us. Currently I am hitting Nightshades for 100-140 main-hand while they are hitting me for 150-190 main-hand.

On top of that damage, they were given a stun they have never had before. You are glossing over it and it matters a great deal. They were given an extra utility they never had. Also we are just talking about Nightshade in your post. Infiltrator got a 7 SECOND STUN added to their Slash kit. That is a massive buff.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:39 PM by florin
Amazing that these threads pop up after the ez mode double frost lifebane stack is taken away. A shame that some of you got to rr8 this way though. Look there are good sbs and there are bad sbs and I only see the bad ones complaining so er go.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:40 PM by ughsmash
florin wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:39 PM
Amazing that these threads pop up after the ez mode double frost lifebane stack is taken away. A shame that some of you got to rr8 this way though. Look there are good sbs and there are bad sbs and I only see the bad ones complaining so er go.

Is there something false about my post? You could basically put my post in an excel spreadsheet and conclude Shadowblade is weaker. I am not making an opinion based argument with a complaint.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:48 PM by florin
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:40 PM
florin wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:39 PM
Amazing that these threads pop up after the ez mode double frost lifebane stack is taken away. A shame that some of you got to rr8 this way though. Look there are good sbs and there are bad sbs and I only see the bad ones complaining so er go.

Is there something false about my post? You could basically put my post in an excel spreadsheet and conclude Shadowblade is weaker. I am not making an opinion based argument with a complaint.
You simply posted no numbers on how hard a similarly ranked, specced, and buffed sb hit against infs or ns. No logs no screen shots. Go talk to some of the higher rank sbs and get some info. Cause ive 1 shorted yellow nightshades and have been 3 shotted by sbs and shades but it’s all anecdotal and not evidence of imbalance. Where does it stop? Do pierce shades and thrust infils need a boost? Do they get bludgeon too?
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:55 PM by ughsmash
florin wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:48 PM
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:40 PM
florin wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:39 PM
Amazing that these threads pop up after the ez mode double frost lifebane stack is taken away. A shame that some of you got to rr8 this way though. Look there are good sbs and there are bad sbs and I only see the bad ones complaining so er go.

Is there something false about my post? You could basically put my post in an excel spreadsheet and conclude Shadowblade is weaker. I am not making an opinion based argument with a complaint.
You simply posted no numbers on how hard a similarly ranked, specced, and buffed sb hit against infs or ns. No logs no screen shots. Go talk to some of the higher rank sbs and get some info. Cause ive 1 shorted yellow nightshades and have been 3 shotted by sbs and shades but it’s all anecdotal and not evidence of imbalance. Where does it stop? Do pierce shades and thrust infils need a boost? Do they get bludgeon too?

Actually, you have it backwards. Posting a screenshot of damage is anecdotal as it's a small sample size. So it cannot be scaled to cover all situations. My information is concrete:
    NS and Inf were gifted a stun in Slash which they never had
    NS and Inf have an armor resist table advantage
    NS and Inf have a Class Identity Perk advantage as 2-Hander is a net loss to poison application and defense penetration

Do not conflate my post with opinion. I am stating facts.

Your argument is: Some SBs are good
While I get you can outplay or out scenario the other stealthers, if you drop their kits in a pit all things being equal, SB loses every time. That is a problem. You cannot have one class flat out weaker than the other two when their play-style dictates they fight each other 1v1 all the time.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:58 PM by florin
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:55 PM
florin wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:48 PM
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:40 PM
Is there something false about my post? You could basically put my post in an excel spreadsheet and conclude Shadowblade is weaker. I am not making an opinion based argument with a complaint.
You simply posted no numbers on how hard a similarly ranked, specced, and buffed sb hit against infs or ns. No logs no screen shots. Go talk to some of the higher rank sbs and get some info. Cause ive 1 shorted yellow nightshades and have been 3 shotted by sbs and shades but it’s all anecdotal and not evidence of imbalance. Where does it stop? Do pierce shades and thrust infils need a boost? Do they get bludgeon too?

Actually, you have it backwards. Posting a screenshot of damage is anecdotal as it's a small sample size. So it cannot be scaled to cover all situations. My information is concrete:
    NS and Inf were gifted a stun in Slash which they never had
    NS and Inf have an armor resist table advantage
    NS and Inf have a Class Identity Perk advantage as 2-Hander is a net loss to poison application and defense penetration

Do not conflate my post with opinion. I am stating facts.

Your argument is: Some SBs are good
While I get you can outplay or out scenario the other stealthers, if you drop their kits in a pit all things being equal, SB loses every time. That is a problem. You cannot have one class flat out weaker than the other two when their play-style dictates they fight each other 1v1 all the time.
Who ever gets the drop should win. If you get the first hit and lose you were either outplayed or a victim of rng. This is in line with my experiences. In reality - the stuns don’t make a difference since they are purged. Hint hint get higher purge
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:00 PM by florin
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:55 PM
florin wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:48 PM
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:40 PM
Is there something false about my post? You could basically put my post in an excel spreadsheet and conclude Shadowblade is weaker. I am not making an opinion based argument with a complaint.
You simply posted no numbers on how hard a similarly ranked, specced, and buffed sb hit against infs or ns. No logs no screen shots. Go talk to some of the higher rank sbs and get some info. Cause ive 1 shorted yellow nightshades and have been 3 shotted by sbs and shades but it’s all anecdotal and not evidence of imbalance. Where does it stop? Do pierce shades and thrust infils need a boost? Do they get bludgeon too?

Actually, you have it backwards. Posting a screenshot of damage is anecdotal as it's a small sample size. So it cannot be scaled to cover all situations. My information is concrete:
    NS and Inf were gifted a stun in Slash which they never had
    NS and Inf have an armor resist table advantage
    NS and Inf have a Class Identity Perk advantage as 2-Hander is a net loss to poison application and defense penetration

Do not conflate my post with opinion. I am stating facts.

Your argument is: Some SBs are good
While I get you can outplay or out scenario the other stealthers, if you drop their kits in a pit all things being equal, SB loses every time. That is a problem. You cannot have one class flat out weaker than the other two when their play-style dictates they fight each other 1v1 all the time.

Good luck without logs
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:00 PM by Bumbles
Forumz wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 3:00 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 2:50 PM
Forumz wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:45 PM
Maybe because Mid is the most popular realm and if you want to play a sneak there you are relegated to shadowblade or hunter. If you think for a second that if mids had the option to be a nightshade or an infiltrator and would still choose shadowblade YOU are delusional. I think the albion aesthetics are awful and I hate the camelot theme and I'm not a hippy tree loving hib. I am a mid through and through so I will play shadowblade if thats my only sneak option. You bet your ass if I had the option to be a NS or Infil on mid I would take it in an instant. It really is basic math and if it wasn't a problem bludgeon never would have been added on live. This is something that really does need to be considered here.

So don't play the most populated realm and be one of the masses in the SB stealth zerg? You decided to play mid so you knew what you were getting, don't moan about it now and want changes...I see plenty of SBs doing just fine...

Math is math, its infallible. Can a shadowblade beat a nightshade or infiltrator 1v1? Yes. Can they beat any class 1v1? Yes. You are missing the point here entirely and ignoring any of the valid and or mathematical reasons for this change to be made just to try and be argumentative. You didn't even acknowledge the fact that I think alb and hib are stupid realms and I only play mid. I am well aware of what I was getting into and I do just fine on my SB also (I don't zerg, what a stupid comment). This server isn't hardstuck to 1.62. Paladins, Friars and a slew of other classes have had MAJOR changes here. Infiltrators and Nightshades getting a better variety of style options among them. Stop ignoring hard facts to try and argue against a change that every single shadowblade will tell you should happen. Furthermore there are more rr5 and above infiltrators then shadowblades, your argument is weak sauce.

Trying hard to get your class buffed by tossing around big words makes you look like a fool. SBs have Pros and Cons, they were listed. Because you CHOOSE to PA with 2H and have a higher risk of missing CD and or a defensive penalty is so foolish I can't believe a thread has been made about it. You do just fine on your SB by your own words BUT shocker you want the class buffed..amazing. Classes that have had changes were changed because THEY were under performing! Yada, yada mathematics... And of course EVERY SB will tell the GMs they should get buffed. You are adorable. Oh btw just a heads up on the whole RR argument....maybe Infs are across the board higher RR due to the fact that they do not play on the high pop realm and therefor have more targets to fight and earn RPs from...or maybe it's because when they attack someone they don't have 4-5 other mid stealth popping out to leech rps? Or they don't have multiple groups roll over fights? Take your pick. But umm yeah Math and stuff. Nerd.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:05 PM by ughsmash
florin wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:58 PM
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:55 PM
florin wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 7:48 PM
You simply posted no numbers on how hard a similarly ranked, specced, and buffed sb hit against infs or ns. No logs no screen shots. Go talk to some of the higher rank sbs and get some info. Cause ive 1 shorted yellow nightshades and have been 3 shotted by sbs and shades but it’s all anecdotal and not evidence of imbalance. Where does it stop? Do pierce shades and thrust infils need a boost? Do they get bludgeon too?

Actually, you have it backwards. Posting a screenshot of damage is anecdotal as it's a small sample size. So it cannot be scaled to cover all situations. My information is concrete:
    NS and Inf were gifted a stun in Slash which they never had
    NS and Inf have an armor resist table advantage
    NS and Inf have a Class Identity Perk advantage as 2-Hander is a net loss to poison application and defense penetration

Do not conflate my post with opinion. I am stating facts.

Your argument is: Some SBs are good
While I get you can outplay or out scenario the other stealthers, if you drop their kits in a pit all things being equal, SB loses every time. That is a problem. You cannot have one class flat out weaker than the other two when their play-style dictates they fight each other 1v1 all the time.
Who ever gets the drop should win. If you get the first hit and lose you were either outplayed or a victim of rng. This is in line with my experiences. In reality - the stuns don’t make a difference since they are purged. Hint hint get higher purge

I agree whoever gets the drop should win, but based on armor resist table alone, NS has a 20 percent damage advantage and Inf has a 10 percent damage advantage. Throw in that with these advantages they now get an extra stun they never had and you are burying Shadowblades to where even with the jump you can lose fights consistently. I know the value of purge. I have purge 3. My main-hand is averaging between 110-140 damage on Nightshades while Blade Nightshades an Slash Infiltrators are averaging 150-190+ main-hand hits on me. That is a hard hill to climb.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:14 PM by Padatoo
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 10:38 AM
Class Identity:
Shadowblade - 2-Handed Weapon
Pros: Harder Perforate Artery
Cons: Slower Creeping Death, which leads to missing it more often / Slower Poison Application / Lose ability to cut defenses, which opens you up for being evaded and punished in Assassin fights

There's no pro side to 2H.
The weapon swing delay comes AFTER the hit,and not before,and so any 2H PA does less DPS then any 1H PA:
Perforate Artery has a huge Static (which depends on CS skill lvl) dmg part in its formula,and so the faster the weapon is - the higher DPS.For example you hit for 900 with 2H weapon with a 5.3 delay and for 700 with 1H weapon with 2.4 delay >> 900/5.3 = 169 dps , 700/2.4 = 291 dps.
There's no reason to wield 2H at all,when you are a sb.


Archers do benefit greatly from slow weapons by the way (bows) ,because their swing delay comes before the hit,and not after.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:33 PM by jelzinga_EU
Bumbles wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:00 PM
Trying hard to get your class buffed by tossing around big words makes you look like a fool. SBs have Pros and Cons, they were listed. Because you CHOOSE to PA with 2H and have a higher risk of missing CD and or a defensive penalty is so foolish I can't believe a thread has been made about it. You do just fine on your SB by your own words BUT shocker you want the class buffed..amazing. Classes that have had changes were changed because THEY were under performing! Yada, yada mathematics... And of course EVERY SB will tell the GMs they should get buffed. You are adorable. Oh btw just a heads up on the whole RR argument....maybe Infs are across the board higher RR due to the fact that they do not play on the high pop realm and therefor have more targets to fight and earn RPs from...or maybe it's because when they attack someone they don't have 4-5 other mid stealth popping out to leech rps? Or they don't have multiple groups roll over fights? Take your pick. But umm yeah Math and stuff. Nerd.

I'm honestly not sure what "Pros" a SB has in the current Phoenix-state. 2H? Laughable, I would give it away in a heart-beat. LA for poison-application? Essentially useless with the Lifebane-reapplication being removed. Leaves race-selection which is a thing, but a (very) minor one.

As for SB's being balanced? No, not really to their counterparts. Don't believe me, perhaps believe a dev --> https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=44338#p44338

he even mentioned a possible solution in : https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=44579#p44579

The point about leeching and adding Mids is completely unrelated (and very far from the truth too). If you look at https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills you can see it is not a problem for SB to solo-kill. No one ever said it was, it is just looking for the right targets. It is not like Albs don't zerg (or Hibs, or Mids).

The armour-tables are stacked against SB's, the off-evade stuns are stacked against SB's ; you can pick any reason why you think they don't deserve something - but you can't say they are equal to other assassins.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:48 PM by Bumbles
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:33 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:00 PM
Trying hard to get your class buffed by tossing around big words makes you look like a fool. SBs have Pros and Cons, they were listed. Because you CHOOSE to PA with 2H and have a higher risk of missing CD and or a defensive penalty is so foolish I can't believe a thread has been made about it. You do just fine on your SB by your own words BUT shocker you want the class buffed..amazing. Classes that have had changes were changed because THEY were under performing! Yada, yada mathematics... And of course EVERY SB will tell the GMs they should get buffed. You are adorable. Oh btw just a heads up on the whole RR argument....maybe Infs are across the board higher RR due to the fact that they do not play on the high pop realm and therefor have more targets to fight and earn RPs from...or maybe it's because when they attack someone they don't have 4-5 other mid stealth popping out to leech rps? Or they don't have multiple groups roll over fights? Take your pick. But umm yeah Math and stuff. Nerd.

I'm honestly not sure what "Pros" a SB has in the current Phoenix-state. 2H? Laughable, I would give it away in a heart-beat. LA for poison-application? Essentially useless with the Lifebane-reapplication being removed. Leaves race-selection which is a thing, but a (very) minor one.

As for SB's being balanced? No, not really to their counterparts. Don't believe me, perhaps believe a dev --> https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=44338#p44338

he even mentioned a possible solution in : https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=44579#p44579

The point about leeching and adding Mids is completely unrelated (and very far from the truth too). If you look at https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills you can see it is not a problem for SB to solo-kill. No one ever said it was, it is just looking for the right targets. It is not like Albs don't zerg (or Hibs, or Mids).

The armour-tables are stacked against SB's, the off-evade stuns are stacked against SB's ; you can pick any reason why you think they don't deserve something - but you can't say they are equal to other assassins.

What part about his "Personal Opinion" do you not comprehend? This game is not created around 1v1 and harping on about well we get the shaft vs NS/Infs is just being dramatic. SBs do more than fine VS every other class in the game. Buffing a class for solo play is not balance.....
Sun 31 Mar 2019 9:02 PM by RaisingSun
Easier fix is..make their armor weak to slash and fixed.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 11:51 PM by florin
RaisingSun wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 9:02 PM
Easier fix is..make their armor weak to slash and fixed.

Normalization of leather armor similar to cloth - I would be all in favor of. This is an indirect buff to sbs as well as making all the weapon lines more viable for infs and shades.

Regarding the evade stuns - yes, shades got all the fun with a questionable side stun and a slash evade stun. Infs got beartooth and a Two style stun like sbs have.

I would not buff sbs but revisit the decision to add the styles to shades and infs.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:24 AM by noobino
At minimum I believe Midgard leather should be neutral to slash. Who else wears leather in Mid? it wouldn't affect anyone but SB's.. This would fix a lot of problems. Also give them an off-evade stun and we'll call it even. I'm cool with this.

Though, on this topic - I do believe Alb leather should be vulnerable to Hib/Mid slash due to the frair's ridiculous damage table and recent buffs. On top of that Infs have access to a psuedo-slam in Dragonfang that's virtually guaranteed to land with a 30% evade chance which forces Hib/Mid stealths to run Purge5 while Alb stealth have the luxury of not needing to have a 5 min purge timer between Dragonfang and Scout Slam. They also have access to the best end-game proc weapon with 11.3 dmg add in pierce which aligns perfectly with DF spec. Mids second with Str/Con debuff and finally Hib with Dex/Qui debuff.

If anything - Alb stealthers have it the easiest without even mentioning their ability to group with speed 6 stealthers. Maybe we should consider tweaking their output and neutralizing Mids leather to so slash and giving them an off-evade stun?

My 0.02.

(see I can play this game too)
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:38 AM by dbeattie71
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 10:38 AM
Hello Friends,

My goal with this post is to open the eyes of the community to the injustice that is done to the Shadowblade class on this server. Both Nightshades and Infiltrators were BUFFED on this server, while Shadowblades remain relatively untouched, and they were already in a worse place to begin with on this patch. Detailed reasoning and proposed fix below.

Class Identity:
Shadowblade - 2-Handed Weapon
Pros: Harder Perforate Artery
Cons: Slower Creeping Death, which leads to missing it more often / Slower Poison Application / Lose ability to cut defenses, which opens you up for being evaded and punished in Assassin fights

Nightshade - Casted Nuke and Instant Nuke on 20 second timer
Pros: Ranged Damage / Essentially an extra in combat hit for more total fight damage
Cons: N/A

Infiltrator - More Spec Points
Pros: More viable builds / honestly just the best Class Identity perk for Assassins
Cons: N/A

I think my breakdown is very fair here. Shadowblades actually have cons if they wanted to use a 2-Hander, while the other classes get nothing but benefits.

Armor
Mid Leather - Resistant: Thrust Neutral: Crush Weak: Slash
Hib Leather - Resistant: Slash Neutral: Thrust Weak: Crush
Alb Leather - Resistant: Thrust Neutral: Slash Weak: Crush

Armor clearly puts Shadowblades at a disadvantage, while Nightshades get the best of it. Basically if Nightshades or Infiltrators decide to go Slash, which all the top ones on the Herald do, You are going to get hit 15-20 percent harder than you hit them.

Now for the Doozy
Both Infiltrators and Nightshades were BUFFED on this server for their Slash specs. If you went Slash for either of these specs on live, you gave up the ability to evade stun.
Nightshades THIS SERVER ONLY: 21 Blades First Part Chain 4 second Evade Stun
Infiltrators THIS SERVER ONLY: 34 Slash Second Part 5 second Evade Stun / 44 Dual Wield Second Part 7 second Evade Stun

Shadowblades have the 39 Sword second part 7 second evade stun added, but we already have this with 39 Left Axe, so we gain nothing to compensate for Nightshade and Infiltrator getting a stun added to their kit where they did not have it before.

Proposed Buff
Give Shadowblades Bludgeon. It is an ability that has been specifically added before because of the resistance table/class defining trait disadvantage. On top of those issues, this server has added another problem by buffing the Slash specs for Nightshades and Infiltrators giving them access to stuns they did not have access to before.

Bludgeon - A melee damage enhancement in which the Shadowblade’s damage is Crush for the duration of the spell, regardless of which weapon he or she has equipped. 30 second duration, instant cast, 5 minute recast.

This ability would at the most make the odds fair. If you disagree please backup your statement as I tried to be as factual as possible. Shadowblade by the numbers is worse at everything than a Nightshade and Infiltrator and something should be done about it.

Nightshade, cons, nuke is based on str.

edit: Not landing CD is pretty common, even with a 1h.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:45 AM by dbeattie71
Forumz wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:45 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:40 PM
This is a well thought out troll attempt...If SBs are at such a disadvantage please tell me why out of the 3 Sins they are always the #1 played at all times on the server? You are delusional.

Maybe because Mid is the most popular realm and if you want to play a sneak there you are relegated to shadowblade or hunter. If you think for a second that if mids had the option to be a nightshade or an infiltrator and would still choose shadowblade YOU are delusional. I think the albion aesthetics are awful and I hate the camelot theme and I'm not a hippy tree loving hib. I am a mid through and through so I will play shadowblade if thats my only sneak option. You bet your ass if I had the option to be a NS or Infil on mid I would take it in an instant. It really is basic math and if it wasn't a problem bludgeon never would have been added on live. This is something that really does need to be considered here.

They do, they can switch realms every 12 hours.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:50 AM by dbeattie71
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 6:10 PM
djegu wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 5:54 PM
Just because it's impossible to fight a sb without having mid adding to the fight, no don't buff SB, they are already very very strong.
Sure they under perform vs inf or bladeshades but since 1v1 isn't a component of this server, it make no sense to buff them.

1v1 is a component of the Assassin play-style. Currently Shadowblade is worse than both Nightshade and Infiltrator, and you admitted it, while saying don't buff Shadowblades just because... What I do not think you are giving enough weight to is the fact that both Nightshade and Infiltrator were buffed on this server.

Both Nightshade and Infiltrator were given a Stun on their Slash lines. Previously to go Slash specs they had to give up all stuns besides Creeping Death. Shadowblade was not given anything to compensate and it is devastating.

Are you landing your crit styles and losing? Imo, if I miss my crit and lose, I deserve it.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:52 AM by Cadebrennus
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 10:38 AM
Hello Friends,

My goal with this post is to open the eyes of the community to the injustice that is done to the Shadowblade class on this server. Both Nightshades and Infiltrators were BUFFED on this server, while Shadowblades remain relatively untouched, and they were already in a worse place to begin with on this patch. Detailed reasoning and proposed fix below.

Class Identity:
Shadowblade - 2-Handed Weapon
Pros: Harder Perforate Artery
Cons: Slower Creeping Death, which leads to missing it more often / Slower Poison Application / Lose ability to cut defenses, which opens you up for being evaded and punished in Assassin fights

Nightshade - Casted Nuke and Instant Nuke on 20 second timer
Pros: Ranged Damage / Essentially an extra in combat hit for more total fight damage
Cons: N/A

Infiltrator - More Spec Points
Pros: More viable builds / honestly just the best Class Identity perk for Assassins
Cons: N/A

I think my breakdown is very fair here. Shadowblades actually have cons if they wanted to use a 2-Hander, while the other classes get nothing but benefits.

Armor
Mid Leather - Resistant: Thrust Neutral: Crush Weak: Slash
Hib Leather - Resistant: Slash Neutral: Thrust Weak: Crush
Alb Leather - Resistant: Thrust Neutral: Slash Weak: Crush

Armor clearly puts Shadowblades at a disadvantage, while Nightshades get the best of it. Basically if Nightshades or Infiltrators decide to go Slash, which all the top ones on the Herald do, You are going to get hit 15-20 percent harder than you hit them.

Now for the Doozy
Both Infiltrators and Nightshades were BUFFED on this server for their Slash specs. If you went Slash for either of these specs on live, you gave up the ability to evade stun.
Nightshades THIS SERVER ONLY: 21 Blades First Part Chain 4 second Evade Stun
Infiltrators THIS SERVER ONLY: 34 Slash Second Part 5 second Evade Stun / 44 Dual Wield Second Part 7 second Evade Stun

Shadowblades have the 39 Sword second part 7 second evade stun added, but we already have this with 39 Left Axe, so we gain nothing to compensate for Nightshade and Infiltrator getting a stun added to their kit where they did not have it before.

Proposed Buff
Give Shadowblades Bludgeon. It is an ability that has been specifically added before because of the resistance table/class defining trait disadvantage. On top of those issues, this server has added another problem by buffing the Slash specs for Nightshades and Infiltrators giving them access to stuns they did not have access to before.

Bludgeon - A melee damage enhancement in which the Shadowblade’s damage is Crush for the duration of the spell, regardless of which weapon he or she has equipped. 30 second duration, instant cast, 5 minute recast.

This ability would at the most make the odds fair. If you disagree please backup your statement as I tried to be as factual as possible. Shadowblade by the numbers is worse at everything than a Nightshade and Infiltrator and something should be done about it.

SB pro: perf with a fast weapon (trust me on this) follow up with 2h creeping death. LA always hastes MH. 100% OH swing chance for approximately 38%+ chance to land poison advantage over CD/DW.
SB con: perfing with 2h like a noob.

NS pro: insta DD usable once in a while in melee combat for a bit more damage over time.
NS con: noodle arms (20 less strength than Brit and 30 less strength than Norse). Lower melee damage and lower Weapon skill which affects defense penetration.

Before you even think about talking about armour bonuses or penalties NS start at a 33% stat deficit Vs Brits and a 43% stat deficit Vs Norse, if you're talking Blades Vs Slash Vs Axe/Swords.

You need to do all of the math if you're going to jump on the forums with a whine post
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:59 AM by ughsmash
If you want to go all the way down the rabbit hole then you give more Dex/Quick to NS which makes them harder to hit and attack faster.

If you look at the base of the class, both NS and Infiltrator were buffed and nobody seems to have an issue, because I'm guessing you are the ones enjoying the buff. Nobody wants to share power clearly.

If you put the same player in the same Gear/RAs/Equal opening SB will almost never win. How is this not clear?

Would you honestly take 30 strength over 20 percent more damage?
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:09 AM by Cadebrennus
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:59 AM
If you want to go all the way down the rabbit hole then you give more Dex/Quick to NS which makes them harder to hit and attack faster.

If you look at the base of the class, both NS and Infiltrator were buffed and nobody seems to have an issue, because I'm guessing you are the ones enjoying the buff. Nobody wants to share power clearly.

If you put the same player in the same Gear/RAs/Equal opening SB will almost never win. How is this not clear?

Would you honestly take 30 strength over 20 percent more damage?

40 base strength + 80 base dex / 2 = 60 base stat for Pierce which has a 10% penalty Vs Alb and Mid leather.

If you're going to post some false equivalencies at least post the right information about your false equivalencies.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:42 AM by genchaos9
There really is only one way and only one way to balance this stealth war, and nobody will like it but deep down we all know it's true.



Skalds and Bards get stealth.

(Drops mic)
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:18 AM by ughsmash
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:09 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:59 AM
If you want to go all the way down the rabbit hole then you give more Dex/Quick to NS which makes them harder to hit and attack faster.

If you look at the base of the class, both NS and Infiltrator were buffed and nobody seems to have an issue, because I'm guessing you are the ones enjoying the buff. Nobody wants to share power clearly.

If you put the same player in the same Gear/RAs/Equal opening SB will almost never win. How is this not clear?

Would you honestly take 30 strength over 20 percent more damage?

40 base strength + 80 base dex / 2 = 60 base stat for Pierce which has a 10% penalty Vs Alb and Mid leather.

If you're going to post some false equivalencies at least post the right information about your false equivalencies.

You have officially missed the boat. Nothing on my post is about Pierce. It is all about slash.

Fact of the matter is NS hit way harder. Any Assassin who plays can tell you this. On top of it they were GIVEN STUN IN A SPEC THAT DID NOT HAVE EVADE STUN. This is the crux of my post. How are you missing this? why are we talking about pierce? nobody on the high end is going pierce, because Slash crushes Shadowblades so hard nobody bothers. They are absolutely demolishing Shadowblades with Slash.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:37 AM by dbeattie71
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:18 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:09 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:59 AM
If you want to go all the way down the rabbit hole then you give more Dex/Quick to NS which makes them harder to hit and attack faster.

If you look at the base of the class, both NS and Infiltrator were buffed and nobody seems to have an issue, because I'm guessing you are the ones enjoying the buff. Nobody wants to share power clearly.

If you put the same player in the same Gear/RAs/Equal opening SB will almost never win. How is this not clear?

Would you honestly take 30 strength over 20 percent more damage?

40 base strength + 80 base dex / 2 = 60 base stat for Pierce which has a 10% penalty Vs Alb and Mid leather.

If you're going to post some false equivalencies at least post the right information about your false equivalencies.

You have officially missed the boat. Nothing on my post is about Pierce. It is all about slash.

Fact of the matter is NS hit way harder. Any Assassin who plays can tell you this. On top of it they were GIVEN STUN IN A SPEC THAT DID NOT HAVE EVADE STUN. This is the crux of my post. How are you missing this? why are we talking about pierce? nobody on the high end is going pierce, because Slash crushes Shadowblades so hard nobody bothers. They are absolutely demolishing Shadowblades with Slash.

Can’t argue with this, how much is “way” again?
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:38 AM by dbeattie71
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:18 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:09 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:59 AM
If you want to go all the way down the rabbit hole then you give more Dex/Quick to NS which makes them harder to hit and attack faster.

If you look at the base of the class, both NS and Infiltrator were buffed and nobody seems to have an issue, because I'm guessing you are the ones enjoying the buff. Nobody wants to share power clearly.

If you put the same player in the same Gear/RAs/Equal opening SB will almost never win. How is this not clear?

Would you honestly take 30 strength over 20 percent more damage?

40 base strength + 80 base dex / 2 = 60 base stat for Pierce which has a 10% penalty Vs Alb and Mid leather.

If you're going to post some false equivalencies at least post the right information about your false equivalencies.

You have officially missed the boat. Nothing on my post is about Pierce. It is all about slash.

Fact of the matter is NS hit way harder. Any Assassin who plays can tell you this. On top of it they were GIVEN STUN IN A SPEC THAT DID NOT HAVE EVADE STUN. This is the crux of my post. How are you missing this? why are we talking about pierce? nobody on the high end is going pierce, because Slash crushes Shadowblades so hard nobody bothers. They are absolutely demolishing Shadowblades with Slash.

Boomslang is pierce.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:50 AM by jelzinga_EU
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:52 AM
SB pro: perf with a fast weapon (trust me on this) follow up with 2h creeping death. LA always hastes MH. 100% OH swing chance for approximately 38%+ chance to land poison advantage over CD/DW.
SB con: perfing with 2h like a noob.

[06:21:16] You enter combat mode and target [Training Dummy Level 50]
[06:21:16] You prepare to perform a Perforate Artery!
[06:21:16] You perform your Perforate Artery perfectly! (+409)
[06:21:16] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 371 (-130) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:16] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)
[06:21:16] You are no longer hidden!
[06:21:16] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 6 damage!
[06:21:17] You prepare to perform a Creeping Death!
[06:21:18] You perform your Creeping Death perfectly! (+79, Growth Rate: 1.11, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.7846)
[06:21:18] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 127 (-44) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:18] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)
[06:21:18] Training Dummy Level 50 is stunned and cannot move!
[06:21:19] You prepare to perform a Stunning Stab!
[06:21:20] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 5 damage!
[06:21:20] You perform your Stunning Stab perfectly! (+90, Growth Rate: 1.26, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.8906)
[06:21:20] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 135 (-47) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:20] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)

4 seconds => 738 dmg = 184.5 dps (dualwielding)

[06:21:37] You perform your Perforate Artery perfectly! (+409)
[06:21:37] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 371 (-130) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:37] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)
[06:21:37] You are no longer hidden!
[06:21:37] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 6 damage!
[06:21:37] You attempt to use Dragonfury.
[06:21:37] You sheathe arcanium exceptional long sword from your right hand.
[06:21:37] Your Strength has decreased.
[06:21:37] Your Dexterity has decreased.
[06:21:37] Your Quickness has decreased.
[06:21:37] You sheathe arcanium weighted bearded axe from your left hand.
[06:21:37] Your Matter resistance has decreased.
[06:21:37] Your Dexterity has decreased.
[06:21:37] You wield Dragonfury in both hands.
[06:21:37] The magic of Dragonfury flows through you.
[06:21:37] Your Strength has increased.
[06:21:37] Your Cold resistance has increased.
[06:21:37] Your Spirit resistance has increased.
[06:21:38] You enter combat mode and target [Training Dummy Level 50]
[06:21:38] You prepare to perform a Creeping Death!
[06:21:39] You perform your Creeping Death perfectly! (+110, Growth Rate: 1.11, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.5229)
[06:21:39] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your Dragonfury and hit for 240 (-84) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:39] Training Dummy Level 50 is stunned and cannot move!
[06:21:40] You prepare to perform a Stunning Stab!
[06:21:40] Training Dummy Level 50 cannot seem to move!
[06:21:41] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 5 damage!
[06:21:43] You perform your Stunning Stab perfectly! (+125, Growth Rate: 1.26, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.5936)
[06:21:43] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your Dragonfury and hit for 251 (-88) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)

6 seconds => 897 dmg = 149.5 dps (switch to 2H after 1H perf)

Now my SB is 44 CS and 39 Sword and 24 LA, so my LA is low. Once people spec higher LA the advantage grows in 1H favour. Since at 24(+15) LA the advantage isn't there, I'm not gonna trust you about going 2H after perf; since I'm lowering my DPS and giving away block/evade penetration on the CD (enemy isn't stunned yet).

Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:52 AM
NS pro: insta DD usable once in a while in melee combat for a bit more damage over time.
NS con: noodle arms (20 less strength than Brit and 30 less strength than Norse). Lower melee damage and lower Weapon skill which affects defense penetration.

Before you even think about talking about armour bonuses or penalties NS start at a 33% stat deficit Vs Brits and a 43% stat deficit Vs Norse, if you're talking Blades Vs Slash Vs Axe/Swords.

You need to do all of the math if you're going to jump on the forums with a whine post

While 43% starter-stat deficit vs Norse sounds dramatic, in practice it is something more along the lines of:
Norse : 85 STR after char-creation, +15 from levelling (tertiary), +75 from gear, +100 from buffs (roughly) ==> 275 STR before RA's
NS: 55 STR after char-creation, +15 from levelling (tertiary), +75 from gear, +100 from buffs (roughly) ==> 245 STR before RA's
==> 11% less STR once you're levelled, buffed and templated. Add some RA's to it and it's less than 10% in a real scenario.

We could do all the math and the result is the same, why do you think there is so much posting going on about SB's and their state vs. their counterparts? Somehow all the SB's are whiners who can't template, buff up and play and don't press they Garrote-key as hard as a NS ? Or maybe it is because... and here's a shocker... there is some merit to their complaints?
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:30 AM by Cadebrennus
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:18 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:09 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:59 AM
If you want to go all the way down the rabbit hole then you give more Dex/Quick to NS which makes them harder to hit and attack faster.

If you look at the base of the class, both NS and Infiltrator were buffed and nobody seems to have an issue, because I'm guessing you are the ones enjoying the buff. Nobody wants to share power clearly.

If you put the same player in the same Gear/RAs/Equal opening SB will almost never win. How is this not clear?

Would you honestly take 30 strength over 20 percent more damage?

40 base strength + 80 base dex / 2 = 60 base stat for Pierce which has a 10% penalty Vs Alb and Mid leather.

If you're going to post some false equivalencies at least post the right information about your false equivalencies.

You have officially missed the boat. Nothing on my post is about Pierce. It is all about slash.

Fact of the matter is NS hit way harder. Any Assassin who plays can tell you this. On top of it they were GIVEN STUN IN A SPEC THAT DID NOT HAVE EVADE STUN. This is the crux of my post. How are you missing this? why are we talking about pierce? nobody on the high end is going pierce, because Slash crushes Shadowblades so hard nobody bothers. They are absolutely demolishing Shadowblades with Slash.

Because some moron "whataboutted" Str/Dex weapon NS's which are.... wait for it..... Pierce spec. You probably should have read the posts prior to mine instead of knee-jerk reacting only to my post. More comprehensive reading equals greater context.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:38 AM by Sepplord
dbeattie71 wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:38 AM
Nightshade, cons, nuke is based on str.

That's not how being a "Con" works...
How is the nuke scaling on Str a con, vs not having the nuke at all?

A con would be (for example): The NS are 5% more vulnerable to all meleedamage because of their focus on the magical studies during training that takes away from their physical training. (not saying this should happen, just as an example) That would be an actual downside.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:47 AM by Cadebrennus
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:50 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:52 AM
SB pro: perf with a fast weapon (trust me on this) follow up with 2h creeping death. LA always hastes MH. 100% OH swing chance for approximately 38%+ chance to land poison advantage over CD/DW.
SB con: perfing with 2h like a noob.

[06:21:16] You enter combat mode and target [Training Dummy Level 50]
[06:21:16] You prepare to perform a Perforate Artery!
[06:21:16] You perform your Perforate Artery perfectly! (+409)
[06:21:16] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 371 (-130) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:16] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)
[06:21:16] You are no longer hidden!
[06:21:16] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 6 damage!
[06:21:17] You prepare to perform a Creeping Death!
[06:21:18] You perform your Creeping Death perfectly! (+79, Growth Rate: 1.11, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.7846)
[06:21:18] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 127 (-44) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:18] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)
[06:21:18] Training Dummy Level 50 is stunned and cannot move!
[06:21:19] You prepare to perform a Stunning Stab!
[06:21:20] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 5 damage!
[06:21:20] You perform your Stunning Stab perfectly! (+90, Growth Rate: 1.26, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.8906)
[06:21:20] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 135 (-47) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:20] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)

4 seconds => 738 dmg = 184.5 dps (dualwielding)

[06:21:37] You perform your Perforate Artery perfectly! (+409)
[06:21:37] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 371 (-130) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:37] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)
[06:21:37] You are no longer hidden!
[06:21:37] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 6 damage!
[06:21:37] You attempt to use Dragonfury.
[06:21:37] You sheathe arcanium exceptional long sword from your right hand.
[06:21:37] Your Strength has decreased.
[06:21:37] Your Dexterity has decreased.
[06:21:37] Your Quickness has decreased.
[06:21:37] You sheathe arcanium weighted bearded axe from your left hand.
[06:21:37] Your Matter resistance has decreased.
[06:21:37] Your Dexterity has decreased.
[06:21:37] You wield Dragonfury in both hands.
[06:21:37] The magic of Dragonfury flows through you.
[06:21:37] Your Strength has increased.
[06:21:37] Your Cold resistance has increased.
[06:21:37] Your Spirit resistance has increased.
[06:21:38] You enter combat mode and target [Training Dummy Level 50]
[06:21:38] You prepare to perform a Creeping Death!
[06:21:39] You perform your Creeping Death perfectly! (+110, Growth Rate: 1.11, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.5229)
[06:21:39] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your Dragonfury and hit for 240 (-84) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:39] Training Dummy Level 50 is stunned and cannot move!
[06:21:40] You prepare to perform a Stunning Stab!
[06:21:40] Training Dummy Level 50 cannot seem to move!
[06:21:41] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 5 damage!
[06:21:43] You perform your Stunning Stab perfectly! (+125, Growth Rate: 1.26, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.5936)
[06:21:43] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your Dragonfury and hit for 251 (-88) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)

6 seconds => 897 dmg = 149.5 dps (switch to 2H after 1H perf)

Now my SB is 44 CS and 39 Sword and 24 LA, so my LA is low. Once people spec higher LA the advantage grows in 1H favour. Since at 24(+15) LA the advantage isn't there, I'm not gonna trust you about going 2H after perf; since I'm lowering my DPS and giving away block/evade penetration on the CD (enemy isn't stunned yet).

Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:52 AM
NS pro: insta DD usable once in a while in melee combat for a bit more damage over time.
NS con: noodle arms (20 less strength than Brit and 30 less strength than Norse). Lower melee damage and lower Weapon skill which affects defense penetration.

Before you even think about talking about armour bonuses or penalties NS start at a 33% stat deficit Vs Brits and a 43% stat deficit Vs Norse, if you're talking Blades Vs Slash Vs Axe/Swords.

You need to do all of the math if you're going to jump on the forums with a whine post

While 43% starter-stat deficit vs Norse sounds dramatic, in practice it is something more along the lines of:
Norse : 85 STR after char-creation, +15 from levelling (tertiary), +75 from gear, +100 from buffs (roughly) ==> 275 STR before RA's
NS: 55 STR after char-creation, +15 from levelling (tertiary), +75 from gear, +100 from buffs (roughly) ==> 245 STR before RA's
==> 11% less STR once you're levelled, buffed and templated. Add some RA's to it and it's less than 10% in a real scenario.

We could do all the math and the result is the same, why do you think there is so much posting going on about SB's and their state vs. their counterparts? Somehow all the SB's are whiners who can't template, buff up and play and don't press they Garrote-key as hard as a NS ? Or maybe it is because... and here's a shocker... there is some merit to their complaints?

That's nice and all, but Assassins were designed to go after Casters and Healers who typically have shit defense. If you're going after targets that have a greater chance of blocking/parrying/evading your Perf/CD then it's on the player, not the game. You shouldn't whine about not doing as well versus targets the class wasn't intended to neutralise.

Regarding 2h vs dual wielding for perf/CD you really should look at the styles again and re-educate yourself on how weapon speeds actually work in this game.

1. Because Phoenix isn't in batshit-crazy fast mode (no TOA bonuses to speed and only Haste not Celerity generally available to most people) weapon speed means something again. You can't hit cap speed with a 4.2 speed weapon on Phoenix.
2. It's actually weapon DELAY, not speed, if you want to get technical. Your first attack (Perf) has a weapon delay of ZERO. Your next attack regardless of what weapon it is will swing at the weapon "speed" of whatever you perfed with. For me it was important to perf with a fast weapon that got me to cap speed in order to reduce the chance of a quick casted stun or Mez from the target. This brings me to point 3.
3. Perf is an ADDITIVE style (see the description in the growth rate, it should say "special”). Your weapon speed matters much less for the Perf (and Backstab) than it does for a multiplicative style like CD or the other 99% of the styles in the game.
4. Creeping Death (CD) is multiplicative so this is where the 2hander matters. The fun part is you will still swing at the speed of the weapon you Perfed with. This is devastating. However 99.999999% of SB players play like shit so they won't even use this method and get "weak" damage meanwhile attacking targets they aren't strong against.

Take this information for what you will. You'll probably ignore it and continue with misinformation like most of the players here.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:53 AM by ughsmash
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:09 AM
40 base strength + 80 base dex / 2 = 60 base stat for Pierce which has a 10% penalty Vs Alb and Mid leather.

If you're going to post some false equivalencies at least post the right information about your false equivalencies.

You have officially missed the boat. Nothing on my post is about Pierce. It is all about slash.

Fact of the matter is NS hit way harder. Any Assassin who plays can tell you this. On top of it they were GIVEN STUN IN A SPEC THAT DID NOT HAVE EVADE STUN. This is the crux of my post. How are you missing this? why are we talking about pierce? nobody on the high end is going pierce, because Slash crushes Shadowblades so hard nobody bothers. They are absolutely demolishing Shadowblades with Slash.
[/quote]

Because some moron "whataboutted" Str/Dex weapon NS's which are.... wait for it..... Pierce spec. You probably should have read the posts prior to mine instead of knee-jerk reacting only to my post. More comprehensive reading equals greater context.
[/quote]

Why directly quote me if you are going to talk about someone elses post. Seems like the problem with reading and comprehension feel on you.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:06 AM by dbeattie71
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:50 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:52 AM
SB pro: perf with a fast weapon (trust me on this) follow up with 2h creeping death. LA always hastes MH. 100% OH swing chance for approximately 38%+ chance to land poison advantage over CD/DW.
SB con: perfing with 2h like a noob.

[06:21:16] You enter combat mode and target [Training Dummy Level 50]
[06:21:16] You prepare to perform a Perforate Artery!
[06:21:16] You perform your Perforate Artery perfectly! (+409)
[06:21:16] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 371 (-130) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:16] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)
[06:21:16] You are no longer hidden!
[06:21:16] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 6 damage!
[06:21:17] You prepare to perform a Creeping Death!
[06:21:18] You perform your Creeping Death perfectly! (+79, Growth Rate: 1.11, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.7846)
[06:21:18] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 127 (-44) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:18] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)
[06:21:18] Training Dummy Level 50 is stunned and cannot move!
[06:21:19] You prepare to perform a Stunning Stab!
[06:21:20] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 5 damage!
[06:21:20] You perform your Stunning Stab perfectly! (+90, Growth Rate: 1.26, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.8906)
[06:21:20] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 135 (-47) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:20] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)

4 seconds => 738 dmg = 184.5 dps (dualwielding)

[06:21:37] You perform your Perforate Artery perfectly! (+409)
[06:21:37] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium exceptional long sword and hit for 371 (-130) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:37] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering arcanium weighted bearded axe and hit for 35 (-12) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1019)
[06:21:37] You are no longer hidden!
[06:21:37] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 6 damage!
[06:21:37] You attempt to use Dragonfury.
[06:21:37] You sheathe arcanium exceptional long sword from your right hand.
[06:21:37] Your Strength has decreased.
[06:21:37] Your Dexterity has decreased.
[06:21:37] Your Quickness has decreased.
[06:21:37] You sheathe arcanium weighted bearded axe from your left hand.
[06:21:37] Your Matter resistance has decreased.
[06:21:37] Your Dexterity has decreased.
[06:21:37] You wield Dragonfury in both hands.
[06:21:37] The magic of Dragonfury flows through you.
[06:21:37] Your Strength has increased.
[06:21:37] Your Cold resistance has increased.
[06:21:37] Your Spirit resistance has increased.
[06:21:38] You enter combat mode and target [Training Dummy Level 50]
[06:21:38] You prepare to perform a Creeping Death!
[06:21:39] You perform your Creeping Death perfectly! (+110, Growth Rate: 1.11, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.5229)
[06:21:39] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your Dragonfury and hit for 240 (-84) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)
[06:21:39] Training Dummy Level 50 is stunned and cannot move!
[06:21:40] You prepare to perform a Stunning Stab!
[06:21:40] Training Dummy Level 50 cannot seem to move!
[06:21:41] You hit Training Dummy Level 50 for 5 damage!
[06:21:43] You perform your Stunning Stab perfectly! (+125, Growth Rate: 1.26, Effective Style Multiplier: 0.5936)
[06:21:43] You attack Training Dummy Level 50 with your Dragonfury and hit for 251 (-88) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1113)

6 seconds => 897 dmg = 149.5 dps (switch to 2H after 1H perf)

Now my SB is 44 CS and 39 Sword and 24 LA, so my LA is low. Once people spec higher LA the advantage grows in 1H favour. Since at 24(+15) LA the advantage isn't there, I'm not gonna trust you about going 2H after perf; since I'm lowering my DPS and giving away block/evade penetration on the CD (enemy isn't stunned yet).

Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:52 AM
NS pro: insta DD usable once in a while in melee combat for a bit more damage over time.
NS con: noodle arms (20 less strength than Brit and 30 less strength than Norse). Lower melee damage and lower Weapon skill which affects defense penetration.

Before you even think about talking about armour bonuses or penalties NS start at a 33% stat deficit Vs Brits and a 43% stat deficit Vs Norse, if you're talking Blades Vs Slash Vs Axe/Swords.

You need to do all of the math if you're going to jump on the forums with a whine post

While 43% starter-stat deficit vs Norse sounds dramatic, in practice it is something more along the lines of:
Norse : 85 STR after char-creation, +15 from levelling (tertiary), +75 from gear, +100 from buffs (roughly) ==> 275 STR before RA's
NS: 55 STR after char-creation, +15 from levelling (tertiary), +75 from gear, +100 from buffs (roughly) ==> 245 STR before RA's
==> 11% less STR once you're levelled, buffed and templated. Add some RA's to it and it's less than 10% in a real scenario.

We could do all the math and the result is the same, why do you think there is so much posting going on about SB's and their state vs. their counterparts? Somehow all the SB's are whiners who can't template, buff up and play and don't press they Garrote-key as hard as a NS ? Or maybe it is because... and here's a shocker... there is some merit to their complaints?

So SBs don’t get aug str? Judging from the number of SBs I fight that vanish, I’m guessing no.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:14 AM by dbeattie71
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:53 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:09 AM
40 base strength + 80 base dex / 2 = 60 base stat for Pierce which has a 10% penalty Vs Alb and Mid leather.

If you're going to post some false equivalencies at least post the right information about your false equivalencies.

You have officially missed the boat. Nothing on my post is about Pierce. It is all about slash.

Fact of the matter is NS hit way harder. Any Assassin who plays can tell you this. On top of it they were GIVEN STUN IN A SPEC THAT DID NOT HAVE EVADE STUN. This is the crux of my post. How are you missing this? why are we talking about pierce? nobody on the high end is going pierce, because Slash crushes Shadowblades so hard nobody bothers. They are absolutely demolishing Shadowblades with Slash.

Because some moron "whataboutted" Str/Dex weapon NS's which are.... wait for it..... Pierce spec. You probably should have read the posts prior to mine instead of knee-jerk reacting only to my post. More comprehensive reading equals greater context.
[/quote]

Why directly quote me if you are going to talk about someone elses post. Seems like the problem with reading and comprehension feel on you.
[/quote]

Boomslang is pierce so there goes that theory.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:23 AM by Cadebrennus
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:53 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:09 AM
40 base strength + 80 base dex / 2 = 60 base stat for Pierce which has a 10% penalty Vs Alb and Mid leather.

If you're going to post some false equivalencies at least post the right information about your false equivalencies.

You have officially missed the boat. Nothing on my post is about Pierce. It is all about slash.

Fact of the matter is NS hit way harder. Any Assassin who plays can tell you this. On top of it they were GIVEN STUN IN A SPEC THAT DID NOT HAVE EVADE STUN. This is the crux of my post. How are you missing this? why are we talking about pierce? nobody on the high end is going pierce, because Slash crushes Shadowblades so hard nobody bothers. They are absolutely demolishing Shadowblades with Slash.

Because some moron "whataboutted" Str/Dex weapon NS's which are.... wait for it..... Pierce spec. You probably should have read the posts prior to mine instead of knee-jerk reacting only to my post. More comprehensive reading equals greater context.
[/quote]

Why directly quote me if you are going to talk about someone elses post. Seems like the problem with reading and comprehension feel on you.
[/quote]

NS Slash does not hit harder than SB. They literally have 30 more strength and about 100 more weaponskill.

The armour tables aren't in your favour, but their advantage Vs you is whittled down by their noodle arms (aka low strength) and their resistance to slash is more than balanced by their lower hp pool.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:54 AM by Warlay
Wait, they have more strength then a Norse? Anyway my feeling is that I have around 60 -80 less strength then normal (I play since release). Ok I want to hear numbers. I am a sb and I have full buffed with Aug strength 6 305 strength and with 44 weapon around 1051 and with 50 in weapon 1101. What has a ns? Especially a elf bladeshade around rr6?
I would be really interested to know that
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:03 AM by Cadebrennus
Warlay wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:54 AM
Wait, they have more strength then a Norse? Anyway my feeling is that I have around 60 -80 less strength then normal (I play since release). Ok I want to hear numbers. I am a sb and I have full buffed with Aug strength 6 305 strength and with 44 weapon around 1051 and with 50 in weapon 1101. What has a ns? Especially a elf bladeshade around rr6?
I would be really interested to know that

Assuming same allocated starting points, RA's, and temps are equal an Elf or Keen has exactly 30 less str than a Norse. They will always be behind Alb and Mid when it comes to str weapons.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:24 AM by jelzinga_EU
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:47 AM
That's nice and all, but Assassins were designed to go after Casters and Healers who typically have shit defense. If you're going after targets that have a greater chance of blocking/parrying/evading your Perf/CD then it's on the player, not the game. You shouldn't whine about not doing as well versus targets the class wasn't intended to neutralise.

Regarding 2h vs dual wielding for perf/CD you really should look at the styles again and re-educate yourself on how weapon speeds actually work in this game.

1. Because Phoenix isn't in batshit-crazy fast mode (no TOA bonuses to speed and only Haste not Celerity generally available to most people) weapon speed means something again. You can't hit cap speed with a 4.2 speed weapon on Phoenix.
2. It's actually weapon DELAY, not speed, if you want to get technical. Your first attack (Perf) has a weapon delay of ZERO. Your next attack regardless of what weapon it is will swing at the weapon "speed" of whatever you perfed with. For me it was important to perf with a fast weapon that got me to cap speed in order to reduce the chance of a quick casted stun or Mez from the target. This brings me to point 3.
3. Perf is an ADDITIVE style (see the description in the growth rate, it should say "special”). Your weapon speed matters much less for the Perf (and Backstab) than it does for a multiplicative style like CD or the other 99% of the styles in the game.
4. Creeping Death (CD) is multiplicative so this is where the 2hander matters. The fun part is you will still swing at the speed of the weapon you Perfed with. This is devastating. However 99.999999% of SB players play like shit so they won't even use this method and get "weak" damage meanwhile attacking targets they aren't strong against.

Take this information for what you will. You'll probably ignore it and continue with misinformation like most of the players here.

Literally after I showed you the combat-log that going 2H after PA is NOT beneficial you continue the misinformation saying you should perf with 1H and then goto 2H for CD because "this is devastating".

Not only that, then you proceed to lecture me about DAOC-mechanics 101 and already assume "i'm going to ignore it and continue with misinformation".
It is extremely condescending and arrogant to a person (me, in this case) who took the time to login, do a few tests and post a log to show you're wrong. I back up my opinions with logs, screenshots and some (minor) calculations, not only to get told of by you, but in the mean-time you claim "i'm going to ignore it and continue with misinformation" when the fact is that YOU just did exactly that. You get confronted by a combat-log proving you wrong, you ignore it and then continue the mis-information (saying 1H PA --> 2H CD is somehow a good strategy).

Now if that was all, but it's not. What really gets me is that you (and not only you) make up additional reasoning, as you go along. Suddenly assassins should only go after low defense targets such as casters and healers, and not other assassins. Ignoring the idiocracy of such a statement for a second, if the DPS is lower on a target with literally 0 defense (the dummy in the log) how would that help your argument in any way ?

Almost all arguments against SB's needing love are nothing more than "moving the goal-posts after the shot". Some state it is because Mids "are overpopulated", "only zerg", "add on everything" and other claim the targets they pick are wrong. Those are all irrelevant if you precisely define the issue. The issue is that SB's are lacking in fights against other assassins.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:34 AM by jelzinga_EU
dbeattie71 wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:06 AM
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:50 AM
While 43% starter-stat deficit vs Norse sounds dramatic, in practice it is something more along the lines of:
Norse : 85 STR after char-creation, +15 from levelling (tertiary), +75 from gear, +100 from buffs (roughly) ==> 275 STR before RA's
NS: 55 STR after char-creation, +15 from levelling (tertiary), +75 from gear, +100 from buffs (roughly) ==> 245 STR before RA's
==> 11% less STR once you're levelled, buffed and templated. Add some RA's to it and it's less than 10% in a real scenario.

We could do all the math and the result is the same, why do you think there is so much posting going on about SB's and their state vs. their counterparts? Somehow all the SB's are whiners who can't template, buff up and play and don't press they Garrote-key as hard as a NS ? Or maybe it is because... and here's a shocker... there is some merit to their complaints?

So SBs don’t get aug str? Judging from the number of SBs I fight that vanish, I’m guessing no.

Snarly, but assuming both get equal levels of Aug STR the absolute difference stays 30 points of STR but the relative difference becomes smaller, hence why I said "after some RA's" it goes <10%.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:45 AM by Cadebrennus
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:24 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:47 AM
That's nice and all, but Assassins were designed to go after Casters and Healers who typically have shit defense. If you're going after targets that have a greater chance of blocking/parrying/evading your Perf/CD then it's on the player, not the game. You shouldn't whine about not doing as well versus targets the class wasn't intended to neutralise.

Regarding 2h vs dual wielding for perf/CD you really should look at the styles again and re-educate yourself on how weapon speeds actually work in this game.

1. Because Phoenix isn't in batshit-crazy fast mode (no TOA bonuses to speed and only Haste not Celerity generally available to most people) weapon speed means something again. You can't hit cap speed with a 4.2 speed weapon on Phoenix.
2. It's actually weapon DELAY, not speed, if you want to get technical. Your first attack (Perf) has a weapon delay of ZERO. Your next attack regardless of what weapon it is will swing at the weapon "speed" of whatever you perfed with. For me it was important to perf with a fast weapon that got me to cap speed in order to reduce the chance of a quick casted stun or Mez from the target. This brings me to point 3.
3. Perf is an ADDITIVE style (see the description in the growth rate, it should say "special”). Your weapon speed matters much less for the Perf (and Backstab) than it does for a multiplicative style like CD or the other 99% of the styles in the game.
4. Creeping Death (CD) is multiplicative so this is where the 2hander matters. The fun part is you will still swing at the speed of the weapon you Perfed with. This is devastating. However 99.999999% of SB players play like shit so they won't even use this method and get "weak" damage meanwhile attacking targets they aren't strong against.

Take this information for what you will. You'll probably ignore it and continue with misinformation like most of the players here.

Literally after I showed you the combat-log that going 2H after PA is NOT beneficial you continue the misinformation saying you should perf with 1H and then goto 2H for CD because "this is devastating".

Not only that, then you proceed to lecture me about DAOC-mechanics 101 and already assume "i'm going to ignore it and continue with misinformation".
It is extremely condescending and arrogant to a person (me, in this case) who took the time to login, do a few tests and post a log to show you're wrong. I back up my opinions with logs, screenshots and some (minor) calculations, not only to get told of by you, but in the mean-time you claim "i'm going to ignore it and continue with misinformation" when the fact is that YOU just did exactly that. You get confronted by a combat-log proving you wrong, you ignore it and then continue the mis-information (saying 1H PA --> 2H CD is somehow a good strategy).

Now if that was all, but it's not. What really gets me is that you (and not only you) make up additional reasoning, as you go along. Suddenly assassins should only go after low defense targets such as casters and healers, and not other assassins. Ignoring the idiocracy of such a statement for a second, if the DPS is lower on a target with literally 0 defense (the dummy in the log) how would that help your argument in any way ?

Almost all arguments against SB's needing love are nothing more than "moving the goal-posts after the shot". Some state it is because Mids "are overpopulated", "only zerg", "add on everything" and other claim the targets they pick are wrong. Those are all irrelevant if you precisely define the issue. The issue is that SB's are lacking in fights against other assassins.

Mon 1 Apr 2019 8:17 AM by Peister
most disillusional retarded post ive seen in awhile, thx for the laugh Ughly
Mon 1 Apr 2019 8:25 AM by Kimahri
infiltrators need more help than shadowblades imo, they can't win a fight unless the enemy's purge is down
Mon 1 Apr 2019 9:33 AM by ughsmash
Peister wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 8:17 AM
most disillusional retarded post ive seen in awhile, thx for the laugh Ughly

Thanks for backing up your statement so I know which of my facts are delusional or retarded.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 11:55 AM by dbeattie71
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 9:33 AM
Peister wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 8:17 AM
most disillusional retarded post ive seen in awhile, thx for the laugh Ughly

Thanks for backing up your statement so I know which of my facts are delusional or retarded.

How do you explain some of the high RR shades, like Boomslang, using pierce? More skilled players? I only bring it up again because you keep ignoring it.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:30 PM by aphansen
It's funny you mentioned boomslang, it's one of the high rank shades, I beat consistently on my SB.

Hansen
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:32 PM by dbeattie71
aphansen wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:30 PM
It's funny you mentioned boomslang, it's one of the high rank shades, I beat consistently on my SB.

Hansen

Interesting, so beating him consistently is ok but, allegedly, losing consistently, to blade shades isn't?

So if a shade goes pierce to have a bonus to intended targets, they should lose consistently to SBs?
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:00 PM by aphansen
dbeattie71 wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:32 PM
aphansen wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:30 PM
It's funny you mentioned boomslang, it's one of the high rank shades, I beat consistently on my SB.

Hansen

Interesting, so beating him consistently is ok but, allegedly, losing consistently, to blade shades isn't?

The fights are close. But that's not going to happen vs blade specced. When checking logs and seeing garrote hit for 100-115 (-60) vs theirs 160-170(-30). Running fully buffed, with 2x weaps of each debuff to swap with. Even when getting the jump, I still manage to lose some fights, that's how bad it is. That doesn't make sense. With the armor resist table flip flop, the fights will be close all over the line.

Hansen
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:06 PM by Padatoo
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:45 AM
some irrelevant picture

You wont get out of this with some troll pictures.How hard is it to admit to being wrong?
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:32 PM by dbeattie71
aphansen wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:00 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:32 PM
aphansen wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:30 PM
It's funny you mentioned boomslang, it's one of the high rank shades, I beat consistently on my SB.

Hansen

Interesting, so beating him consistently is ok but, allegedly, losing consistently, to blade shades isn't?

The fights are close. But that's not going to happen vs blade specced. When checking logs and seeing garrote hit for 100-115 (-60) vs theirs 160-170(-30). Running fully buffed, with 2x weaps of each debuff to swap with. Even when getting the jump, I still manage to lose some fights, that's how bad it is. That doesn't make sense. With the armor resist table flip flop, the fights will be close all over the line.

Hansen

So you're landing PA/CD or BS2 and losing fights? :O
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:54 PM by florin
dbeattie71 wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:14 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:53 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:09 AM
40 base strength + 80 base dex / 2 = 60 base stat for Pierce which has a 10% penalty Vs Alb and Mid leather.

If you're going to post some false equivalencies at least post the right information about your false equivalencies.

You have officially missed the boat. Nothing on my post is about Pierce. It is all about slash.

Fact of the matter is NS hit way harder. Any Assassin who plays can tell you this. On top of it they were GIVEN STUN IN A SPEC THAT DID NOT HAVE EVADE STUN. This is the crux of my post. How are you missing this? why are we talking about pierce? nobody on the high end is going pierce, because Slash crushes Shadowblades so hard nobody bothers. They are absolutely demolishing Shadowblades with Slash.

Because some moron "whataboutted" Str/Dex weapon NS's which are.... wait for it..... Pierce spec. You probably should have read the posts prior to mine instead of knee-jerk reacting only to my post. More comprehensive reading equals greater context.

Why directly quote me if you are going to talk about someone elses post. Seems like the problem with reading and comprehension feel on you.
[/quote]

Boomslang is pierce so there goes that theory.
[/quote]

And Boomslang is pretty terrible - I beat him with my rr4 inf when he was rr7 and he got the jump on me.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:03 PM by dbeattie71
florin wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:54 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:14 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:53 AM
You have officially missed the boat. Nothing on my post is about Pierce. It is all about slash.

Fact of the matter is NS hit way harder. Any Assassin who plays can tell you this. On top of it they were GIVEN STUN IN A SPEC THAT DID NOT HAVE EVADE STUN. This is the crux of my post. How are you missing this? why are we talking about pierce? nobody on the high end is going pierce, because Slash crushes Shadowblades so hard nobody bothers. They are absolutely demolishing Shadowblades with Slash.

Because some moron "whataboutted" Str/Dex weapon NS's which are.... wait for it..... Pierce spec. You probably should have read the posts prior to mine instead of knee-jerk reacting only to my post. More comprehensive reading equals greater context.

Why directly quote me if you are going to talk about someone elses post. Seems like the problem with reading and comprehension feel on you.

Boomslang is pierce so there goes that theory.
[/quote]

And Boomslang is pretty terrible - I beat him with my rr4 inf when he was rr7 and he got the jump on me.
[/quote]

Right, every broblade says so and so is terrible, yet they're here whining because they lose to blade shades sometimes but wtfpwn pierce. Got it.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:05 PM by florin
dbeattie71 wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:03 PM
florin wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:54 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:14 AM
Because some moron "whataboutted" Str/Dex weapon NS's which are.... wait for it..... Pierce spec. You probably should have read the posts prior to mine instead of knee-jerk reacting only to my post. More comprehensive reading equals greater context.

Why directly quote me if you are going to talk about someone elses post. Seems like the problem with reading and comprehension feel on you.

Boomslang is pierce so there goes that theory.

And Boomslang is pretty terrible - I beat him with my rr4 inf when he was rr7 and he got the jump on me.
[/quote]

Right, every broblade says so and so is terrible, yet they're here whining because they lose to blade shades sometimes but wtfpwn pierce. Got it.
[/quote]

I'm a thrust inf so...ya, I drank ns milkshakes
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:09 PM by krisdtn
I loved it when SBs got the bludgeon ability. It definitely helped them out. I would say make the timer 10 minutes instead of 5. Shouldn't be up for every single fight.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:18 PM by Cirath
Just checking in as a SB that thinks balance between assasins is fine. I play both shadowblade and blade nightshade on this server so I can see the issue from both sides. Each has its advantages. My SB has higher str, more hp, and can stack up to 4 poisons/debuffs that reduce damage from blades users (ws/con, str/con, str, disease). My nightshade has favorable armor tables vs mid stealths, and some spell dd for added utility and dps.


People act like they never kill blade specced nightshades here, which isn't my experience at all. I kill them all the time on my SB. I think I lost one 1v1 fight vs other assassins this past weekend, and it was a pierce nightshade. Sometimes you just lose. I think adding bludgeon would make my SB terribly OP against Infs, NS, and rangers. I would destroy them with an on demand 20% damage buff. Bladeshades can choose slash because it is strong against mid stealthers, but then they give up the advantage of thrust versus their most common visible opponents, skalds and minstrels. Bludgeon would give SB TWO damage types (crush and slash),for the price of one. This would mean they would never have to face an opponent who is resistant to their damage type. How is this fair or balanced? I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion here, but not ALL shadowblades feel we are at an unfair disadvantage.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:40 PM by Mavella
I'm more surprised people actually run into Boomslang without the brehon brigade close enough to actually get a 1v1 with him to be honest.


All this crap was gone over and over again in the other thread.

1. Shard skin pots impact LA users more than their counter parts.

2. The style reworks greatly favor NS/Infil vs SB. At least slash Infs are stuck with lame ass 2 part evade stuns in slash or high DW. CD side stun is also a joke and should never have been given to NS/Ranger as it was meant to be BM only oh so long ago.

3. If all parties are actually specced intelligently the LA/DW/CD dps is about the same. Obviously RNG can make DW/CD swing every round or not at all but that's the nature of the game.


This obviously makes Armor tables and RNG the deciding factors. I know against blade/slash I have to do everything right to reduce that inherent advantage to give myself a chance even when getting the first hit.

My biggest SB related gripe is if I want to do 44 CS spec I need to keep sword at 39 if I want a stun style as I RR up. Obviously this is keeping me from raising LA which is going to lower my overall damage. It's not huge but neither NS or Inf need to make this sacrifice, especially after the style rework. The issue is only alleviated at RR9 when you can finally spec 44CS/39LA.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:40 PM by chryso
Cirath wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:18 PM
Just checking in as a SB that thinks balance between assasins is fine. I play both shadowblade and blade nightshade on this server so I can see the issue from both sides. Each has its advantages. My SB has higher str, more hp, and can stack up to 4 poisons/debuffs that reduce damage from blades users (ws/con, str/con, str, disease). My nightshade has favorable armor tables vs mid stealths, and some spell dd for added utility and dps.

This is no place for a voice of reason. Get out of here with that.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:49 PM by Cirath
Mavella wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:40 PM
My biggest SB related gripe is if I want to do 44 CS spec I need to keep sword at 39 if I want a stun style as I RR up. Obviously this is keeping me from raising LA which is going to lower my overall damage. It's not huge but neither NS or Inf need to make this sacrifice, especially after the style rework. The issue is only alleviated at RR9 when you can finally spec 44CS/39LA.

I would be fine with moving the off evade stuns in the sword and axe lines to the first style in the chain to put them on par with NS/Inf. However, I really don't see this making any difference in assasin fights. Five minute purge makes a melee stun more of a liability to the user than a benefit in those situations. I welcome being evade stunned by a NS/Inf early in a fight if my purge is up, which it usually is.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:57 PM by Mavella
Cirath wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:49 PM
I would be fine with moving the off evade stuns in the sword and axe lines to the first style in the chain to put them on par with NS/Inf. However, I really don't see this making any difference in assasin fights. Five minute purge makes a melee stun more of a liability to the user than a benefit in those situations. I welcome being evade stunned by a NS/Inf early in a fight if my purge is up, which it usually is.

And I agree with all this but I'd like to have the utility with the option to use it without having to sacrefice damage which my counterparts do not have to do.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:24 PM by Shadowblade1
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:52 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 10:38 AM
Hello Friends,

My goal with this post is to open the eyes of the community to the injustice that is done to the Shadowblade class on this server. Both Nightshades and Infiltrators were BUFFED on this server, while Shadowblades remain relatively untouched, and they were already in a worse place to begin with on this patch. Detailed reasoning and proposed fix below.

Class Identity:
Shadowblade - 2-Handed Weapon
Pros: Harder Perforate Artery
Cons: Slower Creeping Death, which leads to missing it more often / Slower Poison Application / Lose ability to cut defenses, which opens you up for being evaded and punished in Assassin fights

Nightshade - Casted Nuke and Instant Nuke on 20 second timer
Pros: Ranged Damage / Essentially an extra in combat hit for more total fight damage
Cons: N/A

Infiltrator - More Spec Points
Pros: More viable builds / honestly just the best Class Identity perk for Assassins
Cons: N/A

I think my breakdown is very fair here. Shadowblades actually have cons if they wanted to use a 2-Hander, while the other classes get nothing but benefits.

Armor
Mid Leather - Resistant: Thrust Neutral: Crush Weak: Slash
Hib Leather - Resistant: Slash Neutral: Thrust Weak: Crush
Alb Leather - Resistant: Thrust Neutral: Slash Weak: Crush

Armor clearly puts Shadowblades at a disadvantage, while Nightshades get the best of it. Basically if Nightshades or Infiltrators decide to go Slash, which all the top ones on the Herald do, You are going to get hit 15-20 percent harder than you hit them.

Now for the Doozy
Both Infiltrators and Nightshades were BUFFED on this server for their Slash specs. If you went Slash for either of these specs on live, you gave up the ability to evade stun.
Nightshades THIS SERVER ONLY: 21 Blades First Part Chain 4 second Evade Stun
Infiltrators THIS SERVER ONLY: 34 Slash Second Part 5 second Evade Stun / 44 Dual Wield Second Part 7 second Evade Stun

Shadowblades have the 39 Sword second part 7 second evade stun added, but we already have this with 39 Left Axe, so we gain nothing to compensate for Nightshade and Infiltrator getting a stun added to their kit where they did not have it before.

Proposed Buff
Give Shadowblades Bludgeon. It is an ability that has been specifically added before because of the resistance table/class defining trait disadvantage. On top of those issues, this server has added another problem by buffing the Slash specs for Nightshades and Infiltrators giving them access to stuns they did not have access to before.

Bludgeon - A melee damage enhancement in which the Shadowblade’s damage is Crush for the duration of the spell, regardless of which weapon he or she has equipped. 30 second duration, instant cast, 5 minute recast.

This ability would at the most make the odds fair. If you disagree please backup your statement as I tried to be as factual as possible. Shadowblade by the numbers is worse at everything than a Nightshade and Infiltrator and something should be done about it.

SB pro: perf with a fast weapon (trust me on this) follow up with 2h creeping death. LA always hastes MH. 100% OH swing chance for approximately 38%+ chance to land poison advantage over CD/DW.
SB con: perfing with 2h like a noob.

NS pro: insta DD usable once in a while in melee combat for a bit more damage over time.
NS con: noodle arms (20 less strength than Brit and 30 less strength than Norse). Lower melee damage and lower Weapon skill which affects defense penetration.

Before you even think about talking about armour bonuses or penalties NS start at a 33% stat deficit Vs Brits and a 43% stat deficit Vs Norse, if you're talking Blades Vs Slash Vs Axe/Swords.

You need to do all of the math if you're going to jump on the forums with a whine post

Your SB pro tip is incorrect. Maybe it should be correct. Not sure. However, you're not far off. Perfing with 2h, as you said, bad idea. But swapping to 2h before CD does not benefit the swing speed on THAT instance. The time to swap from 1h to 2h is going into stunning stab. It's instant, and seamless. My guess is, it has something to do with Perf being an opener and therfore instant, for some reason weapon speed isn't factored into the equation until Creeping Death is registered.

Just a slight correction.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:32 PM by Cadebrennus
Shadowblade1 wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:24 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:52 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 10:38 AM
Hello Friends,

My goal with this post is to open the eyes of the community to the injustice that is done to the Shadowblade class on this server. Both Nightshades and Infiltrators were BUFFED on this server, while Shadowblades remain relatively untouched, and they were already in a worse place to begin with on this patch. Detailed reasoning and proposed fix below.

Class Identity:
Shadowblade - 2-Handed Weapon
Pros: Harder Perforate Artery
Cons: Slower Creeping Death, which leads to missing it more often / Slower Poison Application / Lose ability to cut defenses, which opens you up for being evaded and punished in Assassin fights

Nightshade - Casted Nuke and Instant Nuke on 20 second timer
Pros: Ranged Damage / Essentially an extra in combat hit for more total fight damage
Cons: N/A

Infiltrator - More Spec Points
Pros: More viable builds / honestly just the best Class Identity perk for Assassins
Cons: N/A

I think my breakdown is very fair here. Shadowblades actually have cons if they wanted to use a 2-Hander, while the other classes get nothing but benefits.

Armor
Mid Leather - Resistant: Thrust Neutral: Crush Weak: Slash
Hib Leather - Resistant: Slash Neutral: Thrust Weak: Crush
Alb Leather - Resistant: Thrust Neutral: Slash Weak: Crush

Armor clearly puts Shadowblades at a disadvantage, while Nightshades get the best of it. Basically if Nightshades or Infiltrators decide to go Slash, which all the top ones on the Herald do, You are going to get hit 15-20 percent harder than you hit them.

Now for the Doozy
Both Infiltrators and Nightshades were BUFFED on this server for their Slash specs. If you went Slash for either of these specs on live, you gave up the ability to evade stun.
Nightshades THIS SERVER ONLY: 21 Blades First Part Chain 4 second Evade Stun
Infiltrators THIS SERVER ONLY: 34 Slash Second Part 5 second Evade Stun / 44 Dual Wield Second Part 7 second Evade Stun

Shadowblades have the 39 Sword second part 7 second evade stun added, but we already have this with 39 Left Axe, so we gain nothing to compensate for Nightshade and Infiltrator getting a stun added to their kit where they did not have it before.

Proposed Buff
Give Shadowblades Bludgeon. It is an ability that has been specifically added before because of the resistance table/class defining trait disadvantage. On top of those issues, this server has added another problem by buffing the Slash specs for Nightshades and Infiltrators giving them access to stuns they did not have access to before.

Bludgeon - A melee damage enhancement in which the Shadowblade’s damage is Crush for the duration of the spell, regardless of which weapon he or she has equipped. 30 second duration, instant cast, 5 minute recast.

This ability would at the most make the odds fair. If you disagree please backup your statement as I tried to be as factual as possible. Shadowblade by the numbers is worse at everything than a Nightshade and Infiltrator and something should be done about it.

SB pro: perf with a fast weapon (trust me on this) follow up with 2h creeping death. LA always hastes MH. 100% OH swing chance for approximately 38%+ chance to land poison advantage over CD/DW.
SB con: perfing with 2h like a noob.

NS pro: insta DD usable once in a while in melee combat for a bit more damage over time.
NS con: noodle arms (20 less strength than Brit and 30 less strength than Norse). Lower melee damage and lower Weapon skill which affects defense penetration.

Before you even think about talking about armour bonuses or penalties NS start at a 33% stat deficit Vs Brits and a 43% stat deficit Vs Norse, if you're talking Blades Vs Slash Vs Axe/Swords.

You need to do all of the math if you're going to jump on the forums with a whine post

Your SB pro tip is incorrect. Maybe it should be correct. Not sure. However, you're not far off. Perfing with 2h, as you said, bad idea. But swapping to 2h before CD does not benefit the swing speed on THAT instance. The time to swap from 1h to 2h is going into stunning stab. It's instant, and seamless. My guess is, it has something to do with Perf being an opener and therfore instant, for some reason weapon speed isn't factored into the equation until Creeping Death is registered.

Just a slight correction.

Depends on how high you spec CS. If you max out at 34 CS then I'm right. If you go higher into Stunning Stab then you are absolutely correct.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:35 PM by Cadebrennus
Padatoo wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:06 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:45 AM
some irrelevant picture

You wont get out of this with some troll pictures.How hard is it to admit to being wrong?

Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:37 PM by djegu
Warlay wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:54 AM
Wait, they have more strength then a Norse? Anyway my feeling is that I have around 60 -80 less strength then normal (I play since release). Ok I want to hear numbers. I am a sb and I have full buffed with Aug strength 6 305 strength and with 44 weapon around 1051 and with 50 in weapon 1101. What has a ns? Especially a elf bladeshade around rr6?
I would be really interested to know that

I have aug strenght 7 / 39+16 blades and i have 1246 Weaponskill, but you can't compare weaponskill because it's based on your race and class, so you can have people will less weaponskill and still do more dmg than me.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:58 PM by SaintRon
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 6:10 PM
djegu wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 5:54 PM
Just because it's impossible to fight a sb without having mid adding to the fight, no don't buff SB, they are already very very strong.
Sure they under perform vs inf or bladeshades but since 1v1 isn't a component of this server, it make no sense to buff them.

1v1 is a component of the Assassin play-style. Currently Shadowblade is worse than both Nightshade and Infiltrator, and you admitted it, while saying don't buff Shadowblades just because... What I do not think you are giving enough weight to is the fact that both Nightshade and Infiltrator were buffed on this server.

Both Nightshade and Infiltrator were given a Stun on their Slash lines. Previously to go Slash specs they had to give up all stuns besides Creeping Death. Shadowblade was not given anything to compensate and it is devastating.

I'd give them bludgeon only when using a 2h.

But that being said the design of the game was as an entire realm the sides would be competitive. So maybe the intent here is that you're not supposed to be equal to an infiltrator or NS?
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:02 PM by Shadowblade1
SaintRon wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 6:10 PM
djegu wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 5:54 PM
Just because it's impossible to fight a sb without having mid adding to the fight, no don't buff SB, they are already very very strong.
Sure they under perform vs inf or bladeshades but since 1v1 isn't a component of this server, it make no sense to buff them.

1v1 is a component of the Assassin play-style. Currently Shadowblade is worse than both Nightshade and Infiltrator, and you admitted it, while saying don't buff Shadowblades just because... What I do not think you are giving enough weight to is the fact that both Nightshade and Infiltrator were buffed on this server.

Both Nightshade and Infiltrator were given a Stun on their Slash lines. Previously to go Slash specs they had to give up all stuns besides Creeping Death. Shadowblade was not given anything to compensate and it is devastating.

I'd give them bludgeon only when using a 2h.

But that being said the design of the game was as an entire realm the sides would be competitive. So maybe the intent here is that you're not supposed to be equal to an infiltrator or NS?

SB here. I have been thinking something very similar. Strengthen what makes us unique vs tearing down other classes. Making 2h a real bennefit to SB is a great move. Whether its crush damage or making them better for Crit strike. Anything, really.

I'm not big on changing resist tables if thats basically how they've always been. Has it?

When I started the server and first heard NS got love, I thought it was needed. I played a shade pre- 1.65 and an Infy during/post 1.65. Especially losing the Viper edge to the rest of the assassins, I was happy for shades. But, NS seem to be real powerhouses with very little effort. A great SB may weed out a bad NS, but I can bet that the fight would be closer than it should be. Again, I am not for tearing down NSs. But there are a few tweaks I think would benefit the balance.

I think Infy is probably the most balanced Assassin class, but im sure they have their complaints also.

Anyway, most SBs will just keep playing how it is and find ways to be successful. You're always going to have those shadowzerk residuals who just won't want to let go of that monster spec of old. And maybe they're the loudest. Most of us are pretty okay and would support a little change, but otherwise, keep trucking.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:09 PM by Ashenspire
djegu wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:37 PM
Warlay wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:54 AM
Wait, they have more strength then a Norse? Anyway my feeling is that I have around 60 -80 less strength then normal (I play since release). Ok I want to hear numbers. I am a sb and I have full buffed with Aug strength 6 305 strength and with 44 weapon around 1051 and with 50 in weapon 1101. What has a ns? Especially a elf bladeshade around rr6?
I would be really interested to know that

I have aug strenght 7 / 39+16 blades and i have 1246 Weaponskill, but you can't compare weaponskill because it's based on your race and class, so you can have people will less weaponskill and still do more dmg than me.

Weaponskill is not based on your race or class (directly). It's based on your stats and the damage table your class is on. Shadowblades and Nightshades are on the same tables. The weakest (kobold) shadowblade will have 10 more strength than the either elf or lurikeen nightshade. All other things equal (spec buffs, RAs), the shadowblade will have more weaponskill than a bladeshade.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:11 PM by ughsmash
SaintRon wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 6:10 PM
djegu wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 5:54 PM
Just because it's impossible to fight a sb without having mid adding to the fight, no don't buff SB, they are already very very strong.
Sure they under perform vs inf or bladeshades but since 1v1 isn't a component of this server, it make no sense to buff them.

1v1 is a component of the Assassin play-style. Currently Shadowblade is worse than both Nightshade and Infiltrator, and you admitted it, while saying don't buff Shadowblades just because... What I do not think you are giving enough weight to is the fact that both Nightshade and Infiltrator were buffed on this server.

Both Nightshade and Infiltrator were given a Stun on their Slash lines. Previously to go Slash specs they had to give up all stuns besides Creeping Death. Shadowblade was not given anything to compensate and it is devastating.

I'd give them bludgeon only when using a 2h.

But that being said the design of the game was as an entire realm the sides would be competitive. So maybe the intent here is that you're not supposed to be equal to an infiltrator or NS?

The Assassins are supposed to be equal. They are in their own world they feed off of solos. They are not designed for group play, so their kits are created to make them able to win a 1v1 situation.

Nightshades and Infiltrators always had the option to go Slash damage and have a resist table advantage on Shadowblade. If that was the only thing, I would keep my mouth shut, because that was in the game for many years. Once the Devs on this server revamped styles so Assassins/Archers didn't have dead parry/block styles in their lines, they should have been mindful of adding Stuns to the Slash spec lines where they did not have them before.

Now the problem is two fold. Shadowblades get dunked on in the Resist table department and now Nightshade/Infiltrator get the same stun utility. Previously the one saving grace for Shadowblades, was that we were the only ones to have evade stun in the Slash damage line. Now that is taken from us with nothing added to compensate.

I have explained this point many times in different wording through the post, but people ignore it and bring up side points because this is a hard one to tackle and it is the main reason for my post. When I get hit harder and can be stunned by a class with a build that never was able to stun me before the balance gets drastically shifted, because as we know Stun is the strongest tool in the game in 1v1s and is completely game changing to just add to a kit.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:37 PM by florin
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:11 PM
SaintRon wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 6:10 PM
1v1 is a component of the Assassin play-style. Currently Shadowblade is worse than both Nightshade and Infiltrator, and you admitted it, while saying don't buff Shadowblades just because... What I do not think you are giving enough weight to is the fact that both Nightshade and Infiltrator were buffed on this server.

Both Nightshade and Infiltrator were given a Stun on their Slash lines. Previously to go Slash specs they had to give up all stuns besides Creeping Death. Shadowblade was not given anything to compensate and it is devastating.

I'd give them bludgeon only when using a 2h.

But that being said the design of the game was as an entire realm the sides would be competitive. So maybe the intent here is that you're not supposed to be equal to an infiltrator or NS?

The Assassins are supposed to be equal. They are in their own world they feed off of solos. They are not designed for group play, so their kits are created to make them able to win a 1v1 situation.

Nightshades and Infiltrators always had the option to go Slash damage and have a resist table advantage on Shadowblade. If that was the only thing, I would keep my mouth shut, because that was in the game for many years. Once the Devs on this server revamped styles so Assassins/Archers didn't have dead parry/block styles in their lines, they should have been mindful of adding Stuns to the Slash spec lines where they did not have them before.

Now the problem is two fold. Shadowblades get dunked on in the Resist table department and now Nightshade/Infiltrator get the same stun utility. Previously the one saving grace for Shadowblades, was that we were the only ones to have evade stun in the Slash damage line. Now that is taken from us with nothing added to compensate.

I have explained this point many times in different wording through the post, but people ignore it and bring up side points because this is a hard one to tackle and it is the main reason for my post. When I get hit harder and can be stunned by a class with a build that never was able to stun me before the balance gets drastically shifted, because as we know Stun is the strongest tool in the game in 1v1s and is completely game changing to just add to a kit.

While I agree with you, the answer is that simply the stuns dont matter much later once you are higher RR cause purge will be up every fight. You will see - RR4 is much different than rr6+
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:49 PM by SaintRon
I'm going to have to disagree that stealthers were meant to be equal. If that were the case the minstrel wouldn't have stealth.

If it's just 1 v 1 what is the Minstrel doing? "Good job ol chap looks like you've defeated that dastardly shadow blade!!!" As he claps from the sideline.

One side was given a clear advantage in stealth fights. Why do you think that advantage doesn't carry over to shadow blades themselves?

(I lost a comment I think)

PS - I think making 2h a little better and making bludgeon 2 hand only would be a solid change.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:02 PM by ughsmash
SaintRon wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:49 PM
I'm going to have to disagree that stealthers were meant to be equal. If that were the case the minstrel wouldn't have stealth.

If it's just 1 v 1 what is the Minstrel doing? "Good job ol chap looks like you've defeated that dastardly shadow blade!!!" As he claps from the sideline.

One side was given a clear advantage in stealth fights. Why do you think that advantage doesn't carry over to shadow blades themselves?

(I lost a comment I think)

PS - I think making 2h a little better and making bludgeon 2 hand only would be a solid change.

2-Hander will never be good enough to be usable. Dual wield cuts defenses by 25 percent. You would have to make 2-Hander so much better it would be imbalanced to consider using it at all.

Please do not try and lump Minstrel into my statement. You are stretching my comment pretty thin. Clearly each realm has a unique speed class that fits a different role for each. As the class providing speed there is flexibility and overlap into other Areas. This is why you don't really compare Skald/Bard/Minstrel, because they hit different role archetypes completely.

Stop trying to derail the topic. Nobody in this whole post is talking about minstrels besides you. That sir would be it's own post, only I do not know where you would be going with it in regards to ASSASSIN BALANCE, as they are not an Assassin.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:05 PM by Forumz
I personally like the idea gruenesschaf the GM brought up. Make heat legendaries craftable and only usable by assassins, they don't even need to have the debuff procs 15% bonus to leather for all 3 sin classes is enough. As heat legendaries are exclusively good vs leather It doesn't really effect any other aspect of the game and keeps all armor the way it is while somewhat equalizing the assassin vs. assassin meta.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:09 PM by Mavella
SaintRon wrote: I'm going to have to disagree that stealthers were meant to be equal. If that were the case the minstrel wouldn't have stealth.

If it's just 1 v 1 what is the Minstrel doing? "Good job ol chap looks like you've defeated that dastardly shadow blade!!!" As he claps from the sideline.

One side was given a clear advantage in stealth fights. Why do you think that advantage doesn't carry over to shadow blades themselves?

(I lost a comment I think)

PS - I think making 2h a little better and making bludgeon 2 hand only would be a solid change.

Minst doesn't fit into this topic because Mythic in all their wisdom decides to do a rogue-speed, fighter speed, and healer-speed breakup for the realms obviously in an effort to make them different. The best minsts don't even use stealth when they can speed 6 around with purple pets of doom.

Also, If the stealthers weren't meant to be hemogenized feel free to roll back the style changes and LA nerf. I think 4-5 shotting everything that moved with doublefrost was the way the game was meant to be played.

SBs got the short end of the stick from these changes by far (LA nerf was justified, of course) and were given nothing they didn't already have in return. They eventually got bludgeon which was a poorly thought out band-aid.

2h is garbage when you have access to LA anyone who says otherwise is either an idiot or being disingenuous.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:22 PM by ughsmash
Forumz wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:05 PM
I personally like the idea gruenesschaf the GM brought up. Make heat legendaries craftable and only usable by assassins, they don't even need to have the debuff procs 15% bonus to leather for all 3 sin classes is enough. As heat legendaries are exclusively good vs leather It doesn't really effect any other aspect of the game and keeps all armor the way it is while somewhat equalizing the assassin vs. assassin meta.

I wish I would have thought about that prior to making this thread. It is probably the best solution. It does not have degenerative impact on others outside of Assassins and puts us on equal footing without really buffing or nerfing any specific Assassin. The more I think of it, if this can be done, it should be done.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:31 PM by Cadebrennus
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:11 PM
SaintRon wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
ughsmash wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 6:10 PM
1v1 is a component of the Assassin play-style. Currently Shadowblade is worse than both Nightshade and Infiltrator, and you admitted it, while saying don't buff Shadowblades just because... What I do not think you are giving enough weight to is the fact that both Nightshade and Infiltrator were buffed on this server.

Both Nightshade and Infiltrator were given a Stun on their Slash lines. Previously to go Slash specs they had to give up all stuns besides Creeping Death. Shadowblade was not given anything to compensate and it is devastating.

I'd give them bludgeon only when using a 2h.

But that being said the design of the game was as an entire realm the sides would be competitive. So maybe the intent here is that you're not supposed to be equal to an infiltrator or NS?

The Assassins are supposed to be equal. They are in their own world they feed off of solos. They are not designed for group play, so their kits are created to make them able to win a 1v1 situation.

Nightshades and Infiltrators always had the option to go Slash damage and have a resist table advantage on Shadowblade. If that was the only thing, I would keep my mouth shut, because that was in the game for many years. Once the Devs on this server revamped styles so Assassins/Archers didn't have dead parry/block styles in their lines, they should have been mindful of adding Stuns to the Slash spec lines where they did not have them before.

Now the problem is two fold. Shadowblades get dunked on in the Resist table department and now Nightshade/Infiltrator get the same stun utility. Previously the one saving grace for Shadowblades, was that we were the only ones to have evade stun in the Slash damage line. Now that is taken from us with nothing added to compensate.

I have explained this point many times in different wording through the post, but people ignore it and bring up side points because this is a hard one to tackle and it is the main reason for my post. When I get hit harder and can be stunned by a class with a build that never was able to stun me before the balance gets drastically shifted, because as we know Stun is the strongest tool in the game in 1v1s and is completely game changing to just add to a kit.

Their original design was to pick off a Caster who retreated to the backline to sit for power and health. The original design of the game was all about siege. Somewhere some time a bunch of neckbeard playersdecided that Assassins need to dominate every single class 1v1 in an open roaming environment. Said neckbeards raised hell until Mythic and then Broadsword gave in. That's where we are today.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:33 PM by daoklover
I have a crazy idea. Why not just remove the custom changes to inf/NS so they don't get their slash/blades stun?

I'd would take that over bludgeon or some armor resist change. Give me bludgeon and I'll wreck bladeshades & inf's even more than I do already, but I'm probably an outlier.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 9:01 PM by ughsmash
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:31 PM
ughsmash wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:11 PM
SaintRon wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
I'd give them bludgeon only when using a 2h.

But that being said the design of the game was as an entire realm the sides would be competitive. So maybe the intent here is that you're not supposed to be equal to an infiltrator or NS?

The Assassins are supposed to be equal. They are in their own world they feed off of solos. They are not designed for group play, so their kits are created to make them able to win a 1v1 situation.

Nightshades and Infiltrators always had the option to go Slash damage and have a resist table advantage on Shadowblade. If that was the only thing, I would keep my mouth shut, because that was in the game for many years. Once the Devs on this server revamped styles so Assassins/Archers didn't have dead parry/block styles in their lines, they should have been mindful of adding Stuns to the Slash spec lines where they did not have them before.

Now the problem is two fold. Shadowblades get dunked on in the Resist table department and now Nightshade/Infiltrator get the same stun utility. Previously the one saving grace for Shadowblades, was that we were the only ones to have evade stun in the Slash damage line. Now that is taken from us with nothing added to compensate.

I have explained this point many times in different wording through the post, but people ignore it and bring up side points because this is a hard one to tackle and it is the main reason for my post. When I get hit harder and can be stunned by a class with a build that never was able to stun me before the balance gets drastically shifted, because as we know Stun is the strongest tool in the game in 1v1s and is completely game changing to just add to a kit.

Their original design was to pick off a Caster who retreated to the backline to sit for power and health. The original design of the game was all about siege. Somewhere some time a bunch of neckbeard playersdecided that Assassins need to dominate every single class 1v1 in an open roaming environment. Said neckbeards raised hell until Mythic and then Broadsword gave in. That's where we are today.

This is getting a bit off topic again, but to humor you, you are wrong. Their kit tells you you are wrong. You do not give a class high evade if they are made to deal with casters. You do not give them a bunch of evade based reactionary styles in their actual Critical line if it is just for casters. Their role is to scout and give intel and be able to pick off solo players. Not only in Meta, but in their actual kit.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 9:45 PM by Maggot
I really don't understand the amount of whining coming from a few shadowblades here. I play my shadowblade every now and then, and granted I absolutely suck at playing this type of class, I never feel like I'm weak vs the other stealthers. If my purge is up (which it almost always is with purge 4) I win more often vs infilitrators than lose vs them (at least the thrust specced ones). Would I get the bludgeon ability, my win-rate vs thrust infiltrators would be over the top. Nightshades feel more difficult, even the pierce specced ones. Yes, bladeshades are a harder matchup, but in no way is it a chanceless matchup (of course if I fight a RR8 bladeshade on my RR 4 shadowblade I'm probably going to lose, but I don't feel bad about that).

Most shadowblades use the str/con debuff sword and if it hits, a bladeshade is going to get debuffed pretty hard (on top of the WS debuff). Combined with the fact they have 30 less strength to begin with compared to a norse SB, I feel the whining here of a few shadowblades is way over the top.

I feel 1v1 fights between assassins are mostly RNG anyway, who gets the first evade/who gets more evades > so can use their off evade styles.

I really don't feel my shadowblade needs something dramatic like a 'bludgeon' ability, it would completely make him overpowered to be able to switch between slash/crush at will with 1 single spec line, as some1 mentioned before.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 10:14 PM by ughsmash
Maggot wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 9:45 PM
I really don't understand the amount of whining coming from a few shadowblades here. I play my shadowblade every now and then, and granted I absolutely suck at playing this type of class, I never feel like I'm weak vs the other stealthers. If my purge is up (which it almost always is with purge 4) I win more often vs infilitrators than lose vs them (at least the thrust specced ones). Would I get the bludgeon ability, my win-rate vs thrust infiltrators would be over the top. Nightshades feel more difficult, even the pierce specced ones. Yes, bladeshades are a harder matchup, but in no way is it a chanceless matchup (of course if I fight a RR8 bladeshade on my RR 4 shadowblade I'm probably going to lose, but I don't feel bad about that).

Most shadowblades use the str/con debuff sword and if it hits, a bladeshade is going to get debuffed pretty hard (on top of the WS debuff). Combined with the fact they have 30 less strength to begin with compared to a norse SB, I feel the whining here of a few shadowblades is way over the top.

I feel 1v1 fights between assassins are mostly RNG anyway, who gets the first evade/who gets more evades > so can use their off evade styles.

I really don't feel my shadowblade needs something dramatic like a 'bludgeon' ability, it would completely make him overpowered to be able to switch between slash/crush at will with 1 single spec line, as some1 mentioned before.

You are putting a lot of references to feelings, maybes, and opinion in the post. A Dev admitted and Shadowblades are in a bad spot. It is actually linked to in this thread already early on. They specifically pick out the facts of what puts us behind.

Maybe bludgeon isn't the answer, but there has to be something and there was some great examples of a buff, that wouldn't target Shadowblades specifically.

Heat weapons for Assassins is a great example as it would not bleed over into being good against other classes. Heat is good against leather only. Assassins and Friars are the only classes wearing leather and Friars have Heat resist buff. This would not give any assassins an edge against each-other, but would bring them all in line without a Nerf or a Direct buff. I seriously wish I had thought about it before making my post, but a Dev is the one who brought it up.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 11:09 PM by Leandrys
There are multiple problems, SB might be just a little bit behind other assassins (although nightshades are the worst possible example you'd pick to demonstrate they are in a bad spot), but how do you come to buff a midgard class on a server where Midgard is allready overpopulated without breaking even more the balance between realms ?

Midgard allready has a huge spam of Skalds (attracting a lot of casual players whyo want a simple and efficient class to solo), BDs for easy farm and a bit of solo romaing, if DEVs try to touch anything to the SB like Bludgeon (terrible idea imo), we might have double the SBs on the server the next day, you know how FOTM work.

There are classes much worse than SB on Phoenix, Friar was one of them and it's been fixed, now if we want to give a look into SBs, i'm pretty sure nobody wants to end with 100+ FOTM SBs on the server at the same time, and this is what can happen easily with any bad move from devs.

I have no idea of how giving them that very little "bump" they need, but Bludgeon, nop, let's be serious.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 11:49 PM by djegu
Ashenspire wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:09 PM
djegu wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:37 PM
Warlay wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:54 AM
Wait, they have more strength then a Norse? Anyway my feeling is that I have around 60 -80 less strength then normal (I play since release). Ok I want to hear numbers. I am a sb and I have full buffed with Aug strength 6 305 strength and with 44 weapon around 1051 and with 50 in weapon 1101. What has a ns? Especially a elf bladeshade around rr6?
I would be really interested to know that

I have aug strenght 7 / 39+16 blades and i have 1246 Weaponskill, but you can't compare weaponskill because it's based on your race and class, so you can have people will less weaponskill and still do more dmg than me.

Weaponskill is not based on your race or class (directly). It's based on your stats and the damage table your class is on. Shadowblades and Nightshades are on the same tables. The weakest (kobold) shadowblade will have 10 more strength than the either elf or lurikeen nightshade. All other things equal (spec buffs, RAs), the shadowblade will have more weaponskill than a bladeshade.

Ok so there is something I don't understand then

let's take the original question

Warlay wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:54 AM
Wait, they have more strength then a Norse? Anyway my feeling is that I have around 60 -80 less strength then normal (I play since release). Ok I want to hear numbers. I am a sb and I have full buffed with Aug strength 6 305 strength and with 44 weapon around 1051 and with 50 in weapon 1101. What has a ns? Especially a elf bladeshade around rr6?
I would be really interested to know that

I have 283 str with aug str 7 (+ buffs and charge) / 39(+16) blades and my weapon skill is 1246.
Warley is RR6 as well with 305 str and 44(+16) weapon he hit 1101 weapon skill.
You're sure SB and NS are on the same table dmg ? I always thought comparing two weapon skill from different realm/class were wrong.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:04 AM by Bumbles
You are just a bunch of spoiled kids who want everything. Your parents did you a disservice letting you take home the participation trophy. SBs are fine. Stop using "The GMs said" no A GM gave his/her PERSONAL opinion on a class which in the long run means NOTHING.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:04 AM by inchaii
1301 WS with 35+17 Sword and aug str6

RR7L6 SB
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:09 AM by Riac
Bumbles wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:04 AM
You are just a bunch of spoiled kids who want everything. Your parents did you a disservice letting you take home the participation trophy. SBs are fine. Stop using "The GMs said" no A GM gave his/her PERSONAL opinion on a class which in the long run means NOTHING.

all of this is your personal opinion.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:10 AM by ughsmash
Bumbles wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:04 AM
You are just a bunch of spoiled kids who want everything. Your parents did you a disservice letting you take home the participation trophy. SBs are fine. Stop using "The GMs said" no A GM gave his/her PERSONAL opinion on a class which in the long run means NOTHING.

There is a difference between opinions and evidence, but I feel I would be wasting my time to explain it further to you.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:58 AM by Dariussdars
Bumbles wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:04 AM
You are just a bunch of spoiled kids who want everything. Your parents did you a disservice letting you take home the participation trophy. SBs are fine. Stop using "The GMs said" no A GM gave his/her PERSONAL opinion on a class which in the long run means NOTHING.

Of course SBs are fine, despite those that actually play them saying they aren't fine.

You are the "get off my lawn!" guy everyone puts on /ignore.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:16 AM by Freudinio
I propose we remove stealthers all together.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:08 AM by Bumbles
ughsmash wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:10 AM
Bumbles wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:04 AM
You are just a bunch of spoiled kids who want everything. Your parents did you a disservice letting you take home the participation trophy. SBs are fine. Stop using "The GMs said" no A GM gave his/her PERSONAL opinion on a class which in the long run means NOTHING.

There is a difference between opinions and evidence, but I feel I would be wasting my time to explain it further to you.

Go read what HE/SHE wrote, he prefaced it by saying OPINION. Genius.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:13 AM by Leandrys
Freudinio wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:16 AM
I propose we remove stealthers all together.

I must confess i've dreamt of that multiple times in the past.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:20 AM by genchaos9
Actually I changed my mind about Skalds and Bards getting stealth.

Stealthers who are grouped up should be able to see each other and Skalds and Bards get stealth.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:30 AM by Ashenspire
djegu wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 11:49 PM
I have 283 str with aug str 7 (+ buffs and charge) / 39(+16) blades and my weapon skill is 1246.
Warley is RR6 as well with 305 str and 44(+16) weapon he hit 1101 weapon skill.
You're sure SB and NS are on the same table dmg ? I always thought comparing two weapon skill from different realm/class were wrong.

One of you is a liar. Simple as that.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:36 AM by Riac
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:30 AM
djegu wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 11:49 PM
I have 283 str with aug str 7 (+ buffs and charge) / 39(+16) blades and my weapon skill is 1246.
Warley is RR6 as well with 305 str and 44(+16) weapon he hit 1101 weapon skill.
You're sure SB and NS are on the same table dmg ? I always thought comparing two weapon skill from different realm/class were wrong.

One of you is a liar. Simple as that.

rr6 sb
283 str, 1246 weap skill, 36+16 weap , aug str 3 combined forces and s/c charge
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:51 AM by ughsmash
Bumbles wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:08 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:10 AM
Bumbles wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:04 AM
You are just a bunch of spoiled kids who want everything. Your parents did you a disservice letting you take home the participation trophy. SBs are fine. Stop using "The GMs said" no A GM gave his/her PERSONAL opinion on a class which in the long run means NOTHING.

There is a difference between opinions and evidence, but I feel I would be wasting my time to explain it further to you.

Go read what HE/SHE wrote, he prefaced it by saying OPINION. Genius.
I will paste his exact post here so you can understand where opinion stops and evidence begins because you do not know what evidence means
gruenesschafs post:
Quote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal opinion:

The matchup between the 3 assassins is obviously not fair. You basically have the SB higher hp vs ns magic vs inf higher spec points, then you have the mechanic difference / slight LA advantage which is pretty much entirely negated by damage shield. Then it's the possible damage types vs armor types where hib has the advantage as they can get + against sb/hunter and neutral against alb while sb is forced to have a malus against ns and neutral against alb with alb having the choice of malus against hib and bonus against mid or malus against mid and neutral against hib and finally no 1st reactionary stun for the sb.

As for the suggested blunt ability, I'm not really sure if basically adding banespike to SB is the right choice. Legendary weapons would be a great solution for this, however not class restricting them would affect normal group play.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Quote

Definition of Opinion: A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
Definition of Evidence: The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
So his personal opinion is this line: The match-up between the 3 assassins is obviously not fair.
This is opinion because the degree to which something is obvious is subjective. Like in our case. I think it is obvious and you think Shadowblades are fine and we are whiners.

This part is Evidence: You basically have the SB higher hp vs ns magic vs inf higher spec points, then you have the mechanic difference / slight LA advantage which is pretty much entirely negated by damage shield. Then it's the possible damage types vs armor types where hib has the advantage as they can get + against sb/hunter and neutral against alb while sb is forced to have a malus against ns and neutral against alb with alb having the choice of malus against hib and bonus against mid or malus against mid and neutral against hib and finally no 1st reactionary stun for the sb.

It is evidence because it uses facts to support a point. The statement on armor resist tables, effect of shard skin on an offhand that always swings for low damage, and no options for first reactionary stun for SB is a collection of facts. Facts are not opinion.

Implementation based on facts is opinion: As for the suggested blunt ability, I'm not really sure if basically adding banespike to SB is the right choice. Legendary weapons would be a great solution for this, however not class restricting them would affect normal group play.

So while yes he does have opinion in his posts, because any proposed fix is going to be an opinion, the facts are in the post which do remain to my claim of an evidence based post.

You are only looking to say whether it is opinion or not and disregard the FACTUAL information in the post and it shows me you don't have a good grasp on the state of Assassin play. You are not understanding the issue, because you are ignoring the problems.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:11 AM by Bumbles
ughsmash wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:51 AM
Bumbles wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:08 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:10 AM
There is a difference between opinions and evidence, but I feel I would be wasting my time to explain it further to you.

Go read what HE/SHE wrote, he prefaced it by saying OPINION. Genius.
I will paste his exact post here so you can understand where opinion stops and evidence begins because you do not know what evidence means
gruenesschafs post:
Quote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal opinion:

The matchup between the 3 assassins is obviously not fair. You basically have the SB higher hp vs ns magic vs inf higher spec points, then you have the mechanic difference / slight LA advantage which is pretty much entirely negated by damage shield. Then it's the possible damage types vs armor types where hib has the advantage as they can get + against sb/hunter and neutral against alb while sb is forced to have a malus against ns and neutral against alb with alb having the choice of malus against hib and bonus against mid or malus against mid and neutral against hib and finally no 1st reactionary stun for the sb.

As for the suggested blunt ability, I'm not really sure if basically adding banespike to SB is the right choice. Legendary weapons would be a great solution for this, however not class restricting them would affect normal group play.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Quote

Definition of Opinion: A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
Definition of Evidence: The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
So his personal opinion is this line: The match-up between the 3 assassins is obviously not fair.
This is opinion because the degree to which something is obvious is subjective. Like in our case. I think it is obvious and you think Shadowblades are fine and we are whiners.

This part is Evidence: You basically have the SB higher hp vs ns magic vs inf higher spec points, then you have the mechanic difference / slight LA advantage which is pretty much entirely negated by damage shield. Then it's the possible damage types vs armor types where hib has the advantage as they can get + against sb/hunter and neutral against alb while sb is forced to have a malus against ns and neutral against alb with alb having the choice of malus against hib and bonus against mid or malus against mid and neutral against hib and finally no 1st reactionary stun for the sb.

It is evidence because it uses facts to support a point. The statement on armor resist tables, effect of shard skin on an offhand that always swings for low damage, and no options for first reactionary stun for SB is a collection of facts. Facts are not opinion.

Implementation based on facts is opinion: As for the suggested blunt ability, I'm not really sure if basically adding banespike to SB is the right choice. Legendary weapons would be a great solution for this, however not class restricting them would affect normal group play.

So while yes he does have opinion in his posts, because any proposed fix is going to be an opinion, the facts are in the post which do remain to my claim of an evidence based post.

You are only looking to say whether it is opinion or not and disregard the FACTUAL information in the post and it shows me you don't have a good grasp on the state of Assassin play. You are not understanding the issue, because you are ignoring the problems.

You really are dense. Evidence is not something that helps make your dumb case. You bring up LA as being factual evidence that SBs are in a worse off place!?!?! SO DON"T SPEC LA if it means that much to you and is causing you to lose fights due to a damage shield. REALLY damage shield is part of your EVIDENCE as to why SBs need to be buffed. You Bring up Armor, SO DON'T FIGHT INFs/NS and just pick off the 100's of solo players roaming to task zones! That's like a Friar saying they need to be buffed because they can't kill MoB9 shield tanks.....I'm done with you, you are willfully ignorant.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:14 AM by Riac
Bumbles wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:11 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:51 AM
Bumbles wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:08 AM
Go read what HE/SHE wrote, he prefaced it by saying OPINION. Genius.
I will paste his exact post here so you can understand where opinion stops and evidence begins because you do not know what evidence means
gruenesschafs post:
Quote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal opinion:

The matchup between the 3 assassins is obviously not fair. You basically have the SB higher hp vs ns magic vs inf higher spec points, then you have the mechanic difference / slight LA advantage which is pretty much entirely negated by damage shield. Then it's the possible damage types vs armor types where hib has the advantage as they can get + against sb/hunter and neutral against alb while sb is forced to have a malus against ns and neutral against alb with alb having the choice of malus against hib and bonus against mid or malus against mid and neutral against hib and finally no 1st reactionary stun for the sb.

As for the suggested blunt ability, I'm not really sure if basically adding banespike to SB is the right choice. Legendary weapons would be a great solution for this, however not class restricting them would affect normal group play.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Quote

Definition of Opinion: A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
Definition of Evidence: The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
So his personal opinion is this line: The match-up between the 3 assassins is obviously not fair.
This is opinion because the degree to which something is obvious is subjective. Like in our case. I think it is obvious and you think Shadowblades are fine and we are whiners.

This part is Evidence: You basically have the SB higher hp vs ns magic vs inf higher spec points, then you have the mechanic difference / slight LA advantage which is pretty much entirely negated by damage shield. Then it's the possible damage types vs armor types where hib has the advantage as they can get + against sb/hunter and neutral against alb while sb is forced to have a malus against ns and neutral against alb with alb having the choice of malus against hib and bonus against mid or malus against mid and neutral against hib and finally no 1st reactionary stun for the sb.

It is evidence because it uses facts to support a point. The statement on armor resist tables, effect of shard skin on an offhand that always swings for low damage, and no options for first reactionary stun for SB is a collection of facts. Facts are not opinion.

Implementation based on facts is opinion: As for the suggested blunt ability, I'm not really sure if basically adding banespike to SB is the right choice. Legendary weapons would be a great solution for this, however not class restricting them would affect normal group play.

So while yes he does have opinion in his posts, because any proposed fix is going to be an opinion, the facts are in the post which do remain to my claim of an evidence based post.

You are only looking to say whether it is opinion or not and disregard the FACTUAL information in the post and it shows me you don't have a good grasp on the state of Assassin play. You are not understanding the issue, because you are ignoring the problems.

You really are dense. Evidence is not something that helps make your dumb case. You bring up LA as being factual evidence that SBs are in a worse off place!?!?! SO DON"T SPEC LA if it means that much to you and is causing you to lose fights due to a damage shield. REALLY damage shield is part of your EVIDENCE as to why SBs need to be buffed. You Bring up Armor, SO DON'T FIGHT INFs/NS and just pick off the 100's of solo players roaming to task zones! That's like a Friar saying they need to be buffed because they can't kill MoB9 shield tanks.....I'm done with you, you are willfully ignorant.

tbh you seem to be the one that is willfully ignorant. your suggestion is not to spec LA? you didnt even rebut anythign in this post. dont fight infs and NS???? how are we supposed to avoid them when they hunt in the same areas we do..... really hoping that when you said "im done with you" what you really meant is you wont be posting in here anymore. you wont be missed and please dont come back. also, the parallel you tried to make with the friar and the mob9 tank is fucking awful, it doesnt translate to this scenario. where the real issue is the 20% dmg spread on the armors.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:18 AM by Cadebrennus
Seriously, if you guys want to play in godmode with dueltown bullshit then just pack it up and go to live. Your kind will be welcome there.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:22 AM by Riac
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:18 AM
Seriously, if you guys want to play in godmode with dueltown bullshit then just pack it up and go to live. Your kind will be welcome there.

i just dont want to be on the shitty end of a 20% dmg spread by my counterparts..... on live didnt they make it so it was only a 10% spread for vuln vs resistant armor tables. 10% seems a lot more reasonable than 20%
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:09 AM by Warlay
inchaii wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:04 AM
1301 WS with 35+17 Sword and aug str6

RR7L6 SB

ok now i understand nothing anymore im nearly rr7 too, how much str do you have?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:12 AM by Warlay
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:36 AM
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:30 AM
djegu wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 11:49 PM
I have 283 str with aug str 7 (+ buffs and charge) / 39(+16) blades and my weapon skill is 1246.
Warley is RR6 as well with 305 str and 44(+16) weapon he hit 1101 weapon skill.
You're sure SB and NS are on the same table dmg ? I always thought comparing two weapon skill from different realm/class were wrong.

One of you is a liar. Simple as that.

rr6 sb
283 str, 1246 weap skill, 36+16 weap , aug str 3 combined forces and s/c charge

ok 2 sbs proof here that they have more weapon skill then me with less str and weaponspec, whats up??????

ok i just checked it out, i dont understand... they changed something? i didnt lie to you and im not a bad player or say wrong things on purpose. but now i have WS 1368 whereas im 100% sure that i had 1051...
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:20 AM by RioterControl
WTF is this shit? SBs are fine...they have always been fine. It takes maybe 20 min of researching if you never played this game to figure out what to do....are people just that stupid now? I play my SB maybe 2-3 times a week for 1-2 hours and have not had ANY issues vs other realms assassins. Just play the damn game with less whining.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:21 AM by jelzinga_EU
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:36 AM
rr6 sb
283 str, 1246 weap skill, 36+16 weap , aug str 3 combined forces and s/c charge

My SB (RR5) has 271 STR, 39+15 Weapon, 1226 WS with no aug str, only combined forces and s/c charge.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:38 AM by jelzinga_EU
When I read some of these posts I start to wonder why people, who obviously do not play a shadowblade, nor show any serious stealther solo-experience in their replies, come in this topic and make up absolute nonsense ?

There are a lot of opinions in this topic, and some facts. While I can understand you argue about opinions, it makes literally zero sense to argue about facts, and dismissing them with completely unrelated opinions just shows off that you're not really understanding what this is about.

Initially I thought Bludgeon would be a good solution, but in the other topic I was convinced by another person that it is not a good solution. That is an example of an opinion which can be changed based on arguments.

What you can't change, as a player, is facts. It is a fact both NS and INF can spec a weapon-type the SB his armour is weak to (Slash/Blades). It's a fact SB's can't spec a weapon other than Slash (Axe/Sword) where none of his counterparts are weak to. It is a fact SB can't spec for an instant off-evade stun like their counterparts can.

You can argue about if they need it. But please bring some rational arguments to the table. Not speccing/using Left-Axe, or using a 2H just shows you have no idea about stealther-matchups and their game-mechanics. That is fine, not everyone can know everything about everything. But please don't pretend you do - it only makes you look bad.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:46 AM by RioterControl
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:38 AM
When I read some of these posts I start to wonder why people, who obviously do not play a shadowblade, nor show any serious stealther solo-experience in their replies, come in this topic and make up absolute nonsense ?

There are a lot of opinions in this topic, and some facts. While I can understand you argue about opinions, it makes literally zero sense to argue about facts, and dismissing them with completely unrelated opinions just shows off that you're not really understanding what this is about.

Initially I thought Bludgeon would be a good solution, but in the other topic I was convinced by another person that it is not a good solution. That is an example of an opinion which can be changed based on arguments.

What you can't change, as a player, is facts. It is a fact both NS and INF can spec a weapon-type the SB his armour is weak to (Slash/Blades). It's a fact SB's can't spec a weapon other than Slash (Axe/Sword) where none of his counterparts are weak to. It is a fact SB can't spec for an instant off-evade stun like their counterparts can.

You can argue about if they need it. But please bring some rational arguments to the table. Not speccing/using Left-Axe, or using a 2H just shows you have no idea about stealther-matchups and their game-mechanics. That is fine, not everyone can know everything about everything. But please don't pretend you do - it only makes you look bad.


So what...you gain RR so fast in this shard it doesn't matter. SBs "suck"(i haven't had a problem so far) vs other assassins sub rr6. After rr 6 if you have half a brain, SB are pretty damn sick ESPECIALLY with NS not having avoid pain. Try playing a SB when NSs had avoid pain and viper then you can complain. This server is easymode for SBs.

Armor dmg types have been an argument for 20 years...hasn't stopped good SBs from doing well.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:58 AM by dbeattie71
I don’t see what the problem is, from my experience SBs don’t fight shades or rangers, they vanish and run like Forest. Not all, there are a few good SBs.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:03 AM by jelzinga_EU
RioterControl wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:46 AM
So what...you gain RR so fast in this shard it doesn't matter. SBs "suck"(i haven't had a problem so far) vs other assassins sub rr6. After rr 6 if you have half a brain, SB are pretty damn sick ESPECIALLY with NS not having avoid pain. Try playing a SB when NSs had avoid pain and viper then you can complain. This server is easymode for SBs.

Armor dmg types have been an argument for 20 years...hasn't stopped good SBs from doing well.

Well it's an opinion, but I wonder why a SB would get (relatively) better at RR6 compared to other assassins? SB get the same RA's. If anything, it is worse for SB's due to the necessity to keep Blades at 39+ if you want to keep the off-evade stun-chain as a CS-orientated SB. For LA/5-spec they get the exact same benefits as NS/INF do, so why would a SB get any better at RR6+ compared to NS/INF ?

The armor dmg types aren't a problem for 20 years - legendaries where added in 1.66 approx. 2 years after launch (TOA). Furthermore, SB's got Bludgeon eons ago too, so the problem is worked-around for the last 15+ years.

I'm not a big fan of legendaries - and I don't think it is the way forward for Phoenix due to all kinds of complications (mostly due to how AoM will just devaluate them to a point where mundane weapons will be better (again), causing the same problem as now), same with Bludgeon. So an armour-fix for Mid Leather is the least intrusive way to fix it, essentially make Mid leather weak to crush, resistant to thrust (or slash) and neutral to slash (or thrust). Another approach could be to change the resistant/weak tables to 10%/-5% to make the step a bit smaller (5%). Finally, an off-evade instant-stun would be welcome in our weapon-specs, just as INF/NS have (smth like <30 weapon and 4-5 sec duration).

This would make SB more on par with our counterparts in their current state. If you think it would make a SB overpowered, then you have to wonder if you think NS/INF are overpowered too. If they are, perhaps tone them down to current SB levels ?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:52 AM by Sepplord
i kind of dislike the solution of heat legendaries. It would be an overall beneficial change for the SB but i am unsure if it would be an overall good change for the stealthwar because it would reduce the TTK quite a bit, giving "getting the jump" even more importance.
It would also force all of us into crafting new weapons, and that's a lot of plats to be spent. After already spending loads of plats/feathers to get our current weapons (gruenes has already confirmed they could make the dmg type craftable without forcing us into the stats of legendary weapons back then, so at least temps wouldn't have to be redone)

I agree though that bludgeon would probably be a bit over the top, since it would let us get the best of both worlds if we can change our dmg type on demand in combat/stealth.

Simply neutralizing the armortypes when assassins hit assassins would probably be the easiest fix that doesn't require new equipments etc. and doesn't decrease TTK accross the board. Would be a bit unintuitive though and an outlier to the rest of the game, so maybe its unwanted just cause
Tue 2 Apr 2019 9:12 AM by jelzinga_EU
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:52 AM
i kind of dislike the solution of heat legendaries. It would be an overall beneficial change for the SB but i am unsure if it would be an overall good change for the stealthwar because it would reduce the TTK quite a bit, giving "getting the jump" even more importance.
It would also force all of us into crafting new weapons, and that's a lot of plats to be spent. After already spending loads of plats/feathers to get our current weapons (gruenes has already confirmed they could make the dmg type craftable without forcing us into the stats of legendary weapons back then, so at least temps wouldn't have to be redone)

I agree though that bludgeon would probably be a bit over the top, since it would let us get the best of both worlds if we can change our dmg type on demand in combat/stealth.

Simply neutralizing the armortypes when assassins hit assassins would probably be the easiest fix that doesn't require new equipments etc. and doesn't decrease TTK accross the board. Would be a bit unintuitive though and an outlier to the rest of the game, so maybe its unwanted just cause

The problem with legendaries is even larger than that, I think. When you start adding those - you complicate your combat-mechanics balancing by the fact suddenly Avoidance of Magic is also reducing Shadowblade damage. For a NS speccing AoM becomes a non-brainer as nobody will use Slash on them if they have a choice (SB don't) so ramping up AoM is another method to reduce SB-damage. SB can ramp up AoM too, but then NS goes back to using normal Blades and we're back at square 1.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 9:32 AM by Padatoo
Legendaries wouldnt provide a simple or even acceptable solution:

How would legendary dmg type work out on practice - would armor absorb and/or AF affect it as well?
- If yes, then it would do less netto dmg after the resist.
- If no,then it would provide a huge DPS increase vs chain/plate.
- If yes and elemental armor resist table added - it complicates the balance again,by giving SB's increased resists to both Cold and Body (NS's will cry a river).
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:13 PM by Saroi
I am playing all 3 Sneaks on this Server, with SB being the highest. I don't see any problems with SB, that they need to be buffed(or not that much). If you have trouble against other Assassins, then just go higher LA. I tried 44CS and later 34 CS. It is good to kill of casters or take out others by surprise but for dueling it is not that good. I went 10 CS and 50 LA now and for 1v1 against other melees it is way better. Even vs. Bladeshades I had good fights and sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Shadowzerk has always been the solution to deal with the other Assassins.

Yes, Inf and NS got stuns in their Blade/Slash speccs, but with the new RA system on this server and people running high purge (So the purge timer is like 5-10min instead of 30 min), the stun will be purged most of the time. THis is also a huge nerf to Inf's, since Dragonfang was very OP with a 30 min Purge timer. With my Assassins I don't even use my stun most of the time, because it will just be purged and that also means all my poisons will be gone. And having your poisons be purged is a big deal in my opinion.

Also don't just say SB has got nothing in return. SB got a stun in 34 axe added, which especially helps you at higher RR to drop weapon below 39 and if you go Critblade.

Everything has it ups and downs and is in my opinion balanced. I read here on Forum that some SB are crying over Blade Shade, while in same instance people tell how free kills pierce NS are. SB is vulnerable to Slash but resistant to Thrust. Blade NS is the way to go against other Assassins, but you lose the benefit vs Chain. And there are a ton of Skalds and Minstrels out there and you also lose the pierce bonus vs Scouts. So as a Blade NS you take sacrafices.

That is why Bludgeon should not be implemented because you get 2 different damage types at once. Also having crush doesn't just give you more damage vs. the other Assassins, it also gets you benefit vs. other classes like Friar, or the plate/Hib studded.

And don't just bring your disadvantages in the game. Look at your advantages too.

- Higher life pool
- Hitting with both weapons all the time for more procs and easier poison. Dragonmight dot, crafted LA with Alchemy dot + Lifebane and you have 3 dots ticking on enemy for a big amount of damage.
- LA styles, especially Doublefrost are one of the best in game and the 50 LA procc hits for a huge amount of extra damage. Most CD styles, especially anytimer are a joke. DW has a decent "any"timer but at the cost of speccing 50 into it.
- Sexy Female Norse
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:34 PM by Ashenspire
Padatoo wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 9:32 AM
Legendaries wouldnt provide a simple or even acceptable solution:

How would legendary dmg type work out on practice - would armor absorb and/or AF affect it as well?
- If yes, then it would do less netto dmg after the resist.
- If no,then it would provide a huge DPS increase vs chain/plate.
- If yes and elemental armor resist table added - it complicates the balance again,by giving SB's increased resists to both Cold and Body (NS's will cry a river).

Give assassins Heat legendaries only. That way they can rip each other apart and deal the same or less damage to everyone else.

The elemental armor table already exists. It just doesn't affect spells. ONLY legendary weapons, which aren't in the game, so SBs won't have increased resistances to poisons or NS spells.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:45 PM by Mauriac
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:34 PM
Padatoo wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 9:32 AM
Legendaries wouldnt provide a simple or even acceptable solution:

How would legendary dmg type work out on practice - would armor absorb and/or AF affect it as well?
- If yes, then it would do less netto dmg after the resist.
- If no,then it would provide a huge DPS increase vs chain/plate.
- If yes and elemental armor resist table added - it complicates the balance again,by giving SB's increased resists to both Cold and Body (NS's will cry a river).

Give assassins Heat legendaries only. That way they can rip each other apart and deal the same or less damage to everyone else.

The elemental armor table already exists. It just doesn't affect spells. ONLY legendary weapons, which aren't in the game, so SBs won't have increased resistances to poisons or NS spells.

hurray another thing to craft and template

or we could just normalize leather across the realms
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:51 PM by Forumz
RioterControl wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:20 AM
WTF is this shit? SBs are fine...they have always been fine. It takes maybe 20 min of researching if you never played this game to figure out what to do....are people just that stupid now? I play my SB maybe 2-3 times a week for 1-2 hours and have not had ANY issues vs other realms assassins. Just play the damn game with less whining.

Setup some fights with the better bladeshades on the server, I guarantee they obliterate you 9/10 times. Fuck I'll bet you 20 plat right now you can't win more then 1/10 fights against them.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:56 PM by djegu
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:45 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:34 PM
Padatoo wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 9:32 AM
Legendaries wouldnt provide a simple or even acceptable solution:

How would legendary dmg type work out on practice - would armor absorb and/or AF affect it as well?
- If yes, then it would do less netto dmg after the resist.
- If no,then it would provide a huge DPS increase vs chain/plate.
- If yes and elemental armor resist table added - it complicates the balance again,by giving SB's increased resists to both Cold and Body (NS's will cry a river).

Give assassins Heat legendaries only. That way they can rip each other apart and deal the same or less damage to everyone else.

The elemental armor table already exists. It just doesn't affect spells. ONLY legendary weapons, which aren't in the game, so SBs won't have increased resistances to poisons or NS spells.

hurray another thing to craft and template

or we could just normalize leather across the realms

then normalize the weaponskill across the realms, so i don't need to put aug str 7/8 to get the same weapon skill as a SB ??
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:16 PM by Padatoo
djegu wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:56 PM
then normalize the weaponskill across the realms, so i don't need to put aug str 7/8 to get the same weapon skill as a SB ??
all sins are already on the same DMG table
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:21 PM by SaintRon
Forumz wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
RioterControl wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:20 AM
WTF is this shit? SBs are fine...they have always been fine. It takes maybe 20 min of researching if you never played this game to figure out what to do....are people just that stupid now? I play my SB maybe 2-3 times a week for 1-2 hours and have not had ANY issues vs other realms assassins. Just play the damn game with less whining.

Setup some fights with the better bladeshades on the server, I guarantee they obliterate you 9/10 times. Fuck I'll bet you 20 plat right now you can't win more then 1/10 fights against them.

This depends heavily on the spec of a sb. I've seen personally sbs beat ns 1 on 1. I know because I was trying to add.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:30 PM by sabyrtuth
The megathreads of this non issue are getting ridiculous. You have plenty of successful sb in here and the other threads stating the facts.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:53 PM by Sepplord
sabyrtuth wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:30 PM
The megathreads of this non issue are getting ridiculous. You have plenty of successful sb in here and the other threads stating the facts.

How do you gauge succesfullness of an SB?

Do you believe that overall the SB-population has more crybabies than the NS and Inf populations? (because that is the implication when only 1of3 has these megathreads and you claim that there is nothing wrong)


It's ironic you mention facts....because the facts show a clear disadvantage. The SBs mentioning doing fine have stated their opinion, just like everyone else. Having SBs that can overcome disadvantages doesn't mean the disadvantage isn't there. It might be percieved less since they simply outskill most opponents so hard that it matters less.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:01 PM by daoklover
Forumz wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
RioterControl wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:20 AM
WTF is this shit? SBs are fine...they have always been fine. It takes maybe 20 min of researching if you never played this game to figure out what to do....are people just that stupid now? I play my SB maybe 2-3 times a week for 1-2 hours and have not had ANY issues vs other realms assassins. Just play the damn game with less whining.

Setup some fights with the better bladeshades on the server, I guarantee they obliterate you 9/10 times. Fuck I'll bet you 20 plat right now you can't win more then 1/10 fights against them.


I will take that bet. Easiest 20 plat I’ll ever make. Choose any bladeshade on the server and I’ll destroy them in front of you for 20 plat, and I’ll do it multiple times.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:17 PM by Ashenspire
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:45 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:34 PM
Padatoo wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 9:32 AM
Legendaries wouldnt provide a simple or even acceptable solution:

How would legendary dmg type work out on practice - would armor absorb and/or AF affect it as well?
- If yes, then it would do less netto dmg after the resist.
- If no,then it would provide a huge DPS increase vs chain/plate.
- If yes and elemental armor resist table added - it complicates the balance again,by giving SB's increased resists to both Cold and Body (NS's will cry a river).

Give assassins Heat legendaries only. That way they can rip each other apart and deal the same or less damage to everyone else.

The elemental armor table already exists. It just doesn't affect spells. ONLY legendary weapons, which aren't in the game, so SBs won't have increased resistances to poisons or NS spells.

hurray another thing to craft and template

or we could just normalize leather across the realms

But good assassins don't template for weapons. So I think we've found your problem.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:18 PM by Mauriac
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:17 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:45 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:34 PM
Give assassins Heat legendaries only. That way they can rip each other apart and deal the same or less damage to everyone else.

The elemental armor table already exists. It just doesn't affect spells. ONLY legendary weapons, which aren't in the game, so SBs won't have increased resistances to poisons or NS spells.

hurray another thing to craft and template

or we could just normalize leather across the realms

But good assassins don't template for weapons. So I think we've found your problem.

I have a MH free temp. Try again
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:21 PM by Sepplord
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:17 PM
But good assassins don't template for weapons. So I think we've found your problem.

Rich assassins do...

What'S wrong with having a MH-free only set, or utilizing a few stats from the feather-weapon of your choice?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:21 PM by Mauriac
daoklover wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:01 PM
Forumz wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
RioterControl wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:20 AM
WTF is this shit? SBs are fine...they have always been fine. It takes maybe 20 min of researching if you never played this game to figure out what to do....are people just that stupid now? I play my SB maybe 2-3 times a week for 1-2 hours and have not had ANY issues vs other realms assassins. Just play the damn game with less whining.

Setup some fights with the better bladeshades on the server, I guarantee they obliterate you 9/10 times. Fuck I'll bet you 20 plat right now you can't win more then 1/10 fights against them.


I will take that bet. Easiest 20 plat I’ll ever make. Choose any bladeshade on the server and I’ll destroy them in front of you for 20 plat, and I’ll do it multiple times.

I'd love to see that cause I don't buy it for one second. I fought an RR4 Shar blade ranger yesterday as an RR5 SB. I had to vanish after I realized I was hitting him for 102 MH and he was hitting me for 198. I took screenshots of the log and will post them later when I'm off work for the non believers out there. There is no way to outskill a scenario where someone can do almost 100% more damage than me. And that wasn't even factoring in his offhand or his "side" aka anytime stun.

Even the devs at mythic realized it was a massive problem which is why the crappy bandaid that was bludgeon came about. But right now I'd take anything because it's become absurd. I try to avoid hibs because I'm at such a disadvantage across the board.

Also, that fight was with me running s/c, d/q, and AF charges along with combined forced pot, endo, 17%haste and dmg shield. I assume he was running the same. I also applied ws/con debuff, lifebane, disease and 20% lethargy poison which is my standard rotation for a melee fight. Also using a TG skald sword for the debuff. Still got destroyed. His damage went down from 198 to 170 at which point I just said wow this is dumb and threw ninja dust.

It IS a problem.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:22 PM by Mauriac
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:21 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:17 PM
But good assassins don't template for weapons. So I think we've found your problem.

Rich assassins do...

What'S wrong with having a MH-free only set, or utilizing a few stats from the feather-weapon of your choice?

Ashenspire thinks good and rich are synonyms
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:26 PM by Ashenspire
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:21 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:17 PM
But good assassins don't template for weapons. So I think we've found your problem.

Rich assassins do...

What'S wrong with having a MH-free only set, or utilizing a few stats from the feather-weapon of your choice?

Nothing wrong with that at all.

Just don't confuse your lack of desire to completely optimize your class with the class being inherently flawed against others that choose to do so.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:27 PM by Ashenspire
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:18 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:17 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:45 PM
hurray another thing to craft and template

or we could just normalize leather across the realms

But good assassins don't template for weapons. So I think we've found your problem.

I have a MH free temp. Try again

So you want to normalize the leathers, which they already are in one aspect, but you're against heat legendaries because you'd have to make a new template for it, but good assassins don't make templates with specific weapons, but you have a mh weaponless template, so ultimately you have no reason to be against adding heat legendaries to assassins only that would give all assassins access to damage that would have a bonus against other realms assassins and have no gameplay affect against any of their other targets.

Gotcha.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:34 PM by Padatoo
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:21 PM
I'd love to see that cause I don't buy it for one second. I fought an RR4 Shar blade ranger yesterday as an RR5 SB. I had to vanish after I realized I was hitting him for 102 MH and he was hitting me for 198.

I also got my ass handed to me by some Melee-Tanky rangers as well,but the reason was their triple healing (charge/potion/IP) + amount of heal procs that went off during that prolonged fight - DMG difference had nothing to do with it,bad random rolls sure had (like both swings get evaded with 17% chance). Our DMG was on par,and you should check the logs again - 102 MH sounds like an unstyled hit.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:40 PM by djegu
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:27 PM
So you want to normalize the leathers, which they already are in one aspect, but you're against heat legendaries because you'd have to make a new template for it, but good assassins don't make templates with specific weapons, but you have a mh weaponless template, so ultimately you have no reason to be against adding heat legendaries to assassins only that would give all assassins access to damage that would have a bonus against other realms assassins and have no gameplay affect against any of their other targets.

Gotcha.

Where did he say he was against it ?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:50 PM by Ashenspire
When he made the comment about another thing to craft and template, then rolling his eyes.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:55 PM by Mauriac
Padatoo wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:34 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:21 PM
I'd love to see that cause I don't buy it for one second. I fought an RR4 Shar blade ranger yesterday as an RR5 SB. I had to vanish after I realized I was hitting him for 102 MH and he was hitting me for 198.

I also got my ass handed to me by some Melee-Tanky rangers as well,but the reason was their triple healing (charge/potion/IP) + amount of heal procs that went off during that prolonged fight - DMG difference had nothing to do with it,bad random rolls sure had (like both swings get evaded with 17% chance). Our DMG was on par,and you should check the logs again - 102 MH sounds like an unstyled hit.

It was double frost backing up off evade styles.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:13 PM by jelzinga_EU
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:27 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:18 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:17 PM
But good assassins don't template for weapons. So I think we've found your problem.

I have a MH free temp. Try again

So you want to normalize the leathers, which they already are in one aspect, but you're against heat legendaries because you'd have to make a new template for it, but good assassins don't make templates with specific weapons, but you have a mh weaponless template, so ultimately you have no reason to be against adding heat legendaries to assassins only that would give all assassins access to damage that would have a bonus against other realms assassins and have no gameplay affect against any of their other targets.

Gotcha.

a) There is currently no reason to go "real weapon-independent" here on Phoenix. There is only a handful weapons available as SB which are worth using. Take the common denominator of those weapons and use that in your template to avoid spending more money than necessary. The problem is as SB you get the option to do slash-damage or.. slash-damage. Has nothing to do with mainhand-independent - it's just a lack of spec-options there, NS/INF can spec for an armour SB is weak to, SB can't return favor. Easy to understand - and while it is "fun" to just reply get-gut the problem isn't the template or weapon-choices. It is the lack of weapon-spec choice.

b) Legendaries isn't a very good idea as it just means people get AoM to counter legendaries. When that happens SB can spec for AoM too but then NS/INF once again got the option to hit slash-weak armour with mundane slashers --> nothing changes at high RR when people get higher AoM compared to current situation.
(with that being said, it is an option, just not the best one to tackle this specific problem)

c) Leathers are normalized in one aspect? In what, AF and absorb? Duh.. But not in resists which is what the entire crux is. Leathers currently across realms simply follow the general scheme of Alb-leather but if that conflicts with normal realm-rules those overrule it:
Alb-leather : Weak to crush, neutral to slash, resistant to thrust
Hib-leather : normal Hib-rule neutral to all thrust, meaning slash and thrust gets reversed compared to Albion
Mid-leather: normal Mid-rule neutral to all crush, meaning slash and crush gets reversed compared to Albion
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:16 PM by Padatoo
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:55 PM
It was double frost backing up off evade styles.

keep in mind that Rangers also got 19% abs and spec AF
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:39 PM by Ashenspire
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:13 PM
b) Legendaries isn't a very good idea as it just means people get AoM to counter legendaries. When that happens SB can spec for AoM too but then NS/INF once again got the option to hit slash-weak armour with mundane slashers --> nothing changes at high RR when people get higher AoM compared to current situation.
(with that being said, it is an option, just not the best one to tackle this specific problem)

c) Leathers are normalized in one aspect? In what, AF and absorb? Duh.. But not in resists which is what the entire crux is. Leathers currently across realms simply follow the general scheme of Alb-leather but if that conflicts with normal realm-rules those overrule it:
Alb-leather : Weak to crush, neutral to slash, resistant to thrust
Hib-leather : normal Hib-rule neutral to all thrust, meaning slash and thrust gets reversed compared to Albion
Mid-leather: normal Mid-rule neutral to all crush, meaning slash and crush gets reversed compared to Albion

Legendaries don't do spell damage, they do melee damage using heat/cold/etc instead of slash/thrust/crush. AoM doesn't affect legendary weapon damage.

Leather is normalized across all realms in that they're all vulnerable to heat, so no assassin would be at an advantage, which alleviates the entire problem.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:52 PM by dbeattie71
daoklover wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:01 PM
Forumz wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
RioterControl wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:20 AM
WTF is this shit? SBs are fine...they have always been fine. It takes maybe 20 min of researching if you never played this game to figure out what to do....are people just that stupid now? I play my SB maybe 2-3 times a week for 1-2 hours and have not had ANY issues vs other realms assassins. Just play the damn game with less whining.

Setup some fights with the better bladeshades on the server, I guarantee they obliterate you 9/10 times. Fuck I'll bet you 20 plat right now you can't win more then 1/10 fights against them.


I will take that bet. Easiest 20 plat I’ll ever make. Choose any bladeshade on the server and I’ll destroy them in front of you for 20 plat, and I’ll do it multiple times.

Will this be pay per view?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:00 PM by dbeattie71
Padatoo wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:55 PM
It was double frost backing up off evade styles.

keep in mind that Rangers also got 19% abs and spec AF

Also d/q, str, and dmg add.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:00 PM by Mauriac
Padatoo wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:55 PM
It was double frost backing up off evade styles.

keep in mind that Rangers also got 19% abs and spec AF

Exactly which makes it worse
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:10 PM by dbeattie71
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:21 PM
daoklover wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:01 PM
Forumz wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
Setup some fights with the better bladeshades on the server, I guarantee they obliterate you 9/10 times. Fuck I'll bet you 20 plat right now you can't win more then 1/10 fights against them.


I will take that bet. Easiest 20 plat I’ll ever make. Choose any bladeshade on the server and I’ll destroy them in front of you for 20 plat, and I’ll do it multiple times.

I'd love to see that cause I don't buy it for one second. I fought an RR4 Shar blade ranger yesterday as an RR5 SB. I had to vanish after I realized I was hitting him for 102 MH and he was hitting me for 198. I took screenshots of the log and will post them later when I'm off work for the non believers out there. There is no way to outskill a scenario where someone can do almost 100% more damage than me. And that wasn't even factoring in his offhand or his "side" aka anytime stun.

Even the devs at mythic realized it was a massive problem which is why the crappy bandaid that was bludgeon came about. But right now I'd take anything because it's become absurd. I try to avoid hibs because I'm at such a disadvantage across the board.

Also, that fight was with me running s/c, d/q, and AF charges along with combined forced pot, endo, 17%haste and dmg shield. I assume he was running the same. I also applied ws/con debuff, lifebane, disease and 20% lethargy poison which is my standard rotation for a melee fight. Also using a TG skald sword for the debuff. Still got destroyed. His damage went down from 198 to 170 at which point I just said wow this is dumb and threw ninja dust.

It IS a problem.

One way is to land a crit. Not sure if this was my Ranger or not but it’s built for one thing and shooting arrows ain’t it 😀. Some SBs are really squishy and some aren’t Haduri gives me a beat down every time, maybe she should put on a SB clinic. Also how many points is vanish? 10? Thats a lot of aug str, con, or toughness. That’s why I don’t have it on my shade, it’s a waste imo.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:16 PM by Mauriac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:10 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:21 PM
daoklover wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:01 PM
I will take that bet. Easiest 20 plat I’ll ever make. Choose any bladeshade on the server and I’ll destroy them in front of you for 20 plat, and I’ll do it multiple times.

I'd love to see that cause I don't buy it for one second. I fought an RR4 Shar blade ranger yesterday as an RR5 SB. I had to vanish after I realized I was hitting him for 102 MH and he was hitting me for 198. I took screenshots of the log and will post them later when I'm off work for the non believers out there. There is no way to outskill a scenario where someone can do almost 100% more damage than me. And that wasn't even factoring in his offhand or his "side" aka anytime stun.

Even the devs at mythic realized it was a massive problem which is why the crappy bandaid that was bludgeon came about. But right now I'd take anything because it's become absurd. I try to avoid hibs because I'm at such a disadvantage across the board.

Also, that fight was with me running s/c, d/q, and AF charges along with combined forced pot, endo, 17%haste and dmg shield. I assume he was running the same. I also applied ws/con debuff, lifebane, disease and 20% lethargy poison which is my standard rotation for a melee fight. Also using a TG skald sword for the debuff. Still got destroyed. His damage went down from 198 to 170 at which point I just said wow this is dumb and threw ninja dust.

It IS a problem.

One way is to land a crit. Not sure if this was my Ranger or not but it’s built for one thing and shooting arrows ain’t it 😀. Some SBs are really squishy and some aren’t Haduri gives me a beat down every time, maybe she should put on a SB clinic. Also how many points is vanish? 10? Thats a lot of aug str, con, or toughness. That’s why I don’t have it on my shade, it’s a waste imo.

Vanish 1. Anything else is a waste. Vanish 1 saves me a lot of time running back from adds or the aids that is hib instant amnesia
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:28 PM by Riac
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:16 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:10 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:21 PM
I'd love to see that cause I don't buy it for one second. I fought an RR4 Shar blade ranger yesterday as an RR5 SB. I had to vanish after I realized I was hitting him for 102 MH and he was hitting me for 198. I took screenshots of the log and will post them later when I'm off work for the non believers out there. There is no way to outskill a scenario where someone can do almost 100% more damage than me. And that wasn't even factoring in his offhand or his "side" aka anytime stun.

Even the devs at mythic realized it was a massive problem which is why the crappy bandaid that was bludgeon came about. But right now I'd take anything because it's become absurd. I try to avoid hibs because I'm at such a disadvantage across the board.

Also, that fight was with me running s/c, d/q, and AF charges along with combined forced pot, endo, 17%haste and dmg shield. I assume he was running the same. I also applied ws/con debuff, lifebane, disease and 20% lethargy poison which is my standard rotation for a melee fight. Also using a TG skald sword for the debuff. Still got destroyed. His damage went down from 198 to 170 at which point I just said wow this is dumb and threw ninja dust.

It IS a problem.

One way is to land a crit. Not sure if this was my Ranger or not but it’s built for one thing and shooting arrows ain’t it 😀. Some SBs are really squishy and some aren’t Haduri gives me a beat down every time, maybe she should put on a SB clinic. Also how many points is vanish? 10? Thats a lot of aug str, con, or toughness. That’s why I don’t have it on my shade, it’s a waste imo.

Vanish 1. Anything else is a waste. Vanish 1 saves me a lot of time running back from adds or the aids that is hib instant amnesia

v1 is 5 points. not that much aug str con or toughness
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:48 PM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:28 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:16 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:10 PM
One way is to land a crit. Not sure if this was my Ranger or not but it’s built for one thing and shooting arrows ain’t it 😀. Some SBs are really squishy and some aren’t Haduri gives me a beat down every time, maybe she should put on a SB clinic. Also how many points is vanish? 10? Thats a lot of aug str, con, or toughness. That’s why I don’t have it on my shade, it’s a waste imo.

Vanish 1. Anything else is a waste. Vanish 1 saves me a lot of time running back from adds or the aids that is hib instant amnesia

v1 is 5 points. not that much aug str con or toughness

Interesting, I can tell the difference between stealth’s that have 1 vs higher. I find Vanishwrs about 50% of the time, probably those with Vanish 1.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:35 PM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:48 PM
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:28 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:16 PM
Vanish 1. Anything else is a waste. Vanish 1 saves me a lot of time running back from adds or the aids that is hib instant amnesia

v1 is 5 points. not that much aug str con or toughness

Interesting, I can tell the difference between stealth’s that have 1 vs higher. I find Vanishwrs about 50% of the time, probably those with Vanish 1.

no one goes over vanish 1 and if they do, well im sure they are quite weak lol. either way vanish is not the problem. the problem is the 20% dmg spread blade shades and the the 10% spread slash infs get (tbh i dont find the 10% infs have to be that bad, they are strong but not as bad as NS. NS and the 20% spread is a blowout.)
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:47 PM by genchaos9
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:18 AM
Seriously, if you guys want to play in godmode with dueltown bullshit then just pack it up and go to live. Your kind will be welcome there.

He nailed it. It's all about that leet 1v1 which nobody really cares about except a handful of players.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:14 PM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:35 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:48 PM
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:28 PM
v1 is 5 points. not that much aug str con or toughness

Interesting, I can tell the difference between stealth’s that have 1 vs higher. I find Vanishwrs about 50% of the time, probably those with Vanish 1.

no one goes over vanish 1 and if they do, well im sure they are quite weak lol. either way vanish is not the problem. the problem is the 20% dmg spread blade shades and the the 10% spread slash infs get (tbh i dont find the 10% infs have to be that bad, they are strong but not as bad as NS. NS and the 20% spread is a blowout.)

When I played my shade and as close as things are, I didn't waste the points, remember, I have to have aug str 6 or 7 to hang with SBs.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:19 PM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:14 PM
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:35 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:48 PM
Interesting, I can tell the difference between stealth’s that have 1 vs higher. I find Vanishwrs about 50% of the time, probably those with Vanish 1.

no one goes over vanish 1 and if they do, well im sure they are quite weak lol. either way vanish is not the problem. the problem is the 20% dmg spread blade shades and the the 10% spread slash infs get (tbh i dont find the 10% infs have to be that bad, they are strong but not as bad as NS. NS and the 20% spread is a blowout.)

When I played my shade and as close as things are, I didn't waste the points, remember, I have to have aug str 6 or 7 to hang with SBs.

When did you play your shade, if it wasn't on phoenix I'd say it's not a good example? Also I have to spec mopain 6+ and hope I get crits to hang with your base mh dmg and god forbid you get an oh hit.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:27 PM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:19 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:14 PM
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:35 PM
no one goes over vanish 1 and if they do, well im sure they are quite weak lol. either way vanish is not the problem. the problem is the 20% dmg spread blade shades and the the 10% spread slash infs get (tbh i dont find the 10% infs have to be that bad, they are strong but not as bad as NS. NS and the 20% spread is a blowout.)

When I played my shade and as close as things are, I didn't waste the points, remember, I have to have aug str 6 or 7 to hang with SBs.

When did you play your shade, if it wasn't on phoenix I'd say it's not a good example? Also I have to spec mopain 6+ and hope I get crits to hang with your base mh dmg and god forbid you get an oh hit.

Aug Str > MOP
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:31 PM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:27 PM
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:19 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:14 PM
When I played my shade and as close as things are, I didn't waste the points, remember, I have to have aug str 6 or 7 to hang with SBs.

When did you play your shade, if it wasn't on phoenix I'd say it's not a good example? Also I have to spec mopain 6+ and hope I get crits to hang with your base mh dmg and god forbid you get an oh hit.

Aug Str > MOP

Idk about that. Aug str isn't going to provide me a random 30+ dmg on my swings. It's worth looking into though. I feel like in the dps race that is a sin 1v1 I need the crits, especially when the person I'm racing is getting +10% dmg and I'm getting -10% smg
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:51 PM by Mauriac
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:31 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:27 PM
Riac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:19 PM
When did you play your shade, if it wasn't on phoenix I'd say it's not a good example? Also I have to spec mopain 6+ and hope I get crits to hang with your base mh dmg and god forbid you get an oh hit.

Aug Str > MOP

Idk about that. Aug str isn't going to provide me a random 30+ dmg on my swings. It's worth looking into though. I feel like in the dps race that is a sin 1v1 I need the crits, especially when the person I'm racing is getting +10% dmg and I'm getting -10% smg

I'd love to see a mathematical breakdown of this. Maybe Mr pivot table from earlier can help out?
Tue 2 Apr 2019 8:17 PM by jelzinga_EU
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:39 PM
Legendaries don't do spell damage, they do melee damage using heat/cold/etc instead of slash/thrust/crush. AoM doesn't affect legendary weapon damage.

Leather is normalized across all realms in that they're all vulnerable to heat, so no assassin would be at an advantage, which alleviates the entire problem.

a) Wrong - they are affected by your resists, such as resists from items, resists from resist-buffs, empty mind and AoM.

b) Because of a) people can get serious levels of AoM and return to a situation where mundane weapons might potentially be better, therefore returning to a where we started out (armour-disadvantage for SB's)

Since this is a custom-rules server I don't think simply changing all leathers to Alb-leather (for example) in case it is a stealther vs stealther melee-fight would be a bad idea as gruenesschaff posted as a possible solution in the other topic. It certainly is a lot less of a sweeping change as legendaries.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 8:25 PM by jelzinga_EU
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:27 PM
Aug Str > MOP

I would like to see your reasoning and numbers behind it, as it is clear that there is a situation where MoP > Aug STR (in case you hit for cap damage Aug STR does nothing, where more crits still do something, obviously).

Rough guess, assume a 160 combat-round :
MoPain 6 adds 22% crit, a crit is 10% - 50% (avg. 30%) => 0.22 * 0.3 * 160 = 11 additional dmg / round on avg.

I don't know if 28 additional STR adds 11 dmg/round assuming you go from 270~ STR to 300~ STR, I have not tested it, but should be easy to test.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 8:31 PM by Ashenspire
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 8:17 PM
a) Wrong - they are affected by your resists, such as resists from items, resists from resist-buffs, empty mind and AoM.

b) Because of a) people can get serious levels of AoM and return to a situation where mundane weapons might potentially be better, therefore returning to a where we started out (armour-disadvantage for SB's)

Since this is a custom-rules server I don't think simply changing all leathers to Alb-leather (for example) in case it is a stealther vs stealther melee-fight would be a bad idea as gruenesschaff posted as a possible solution in the other topic. It certainly is a lot less of a sweeping change as legendaries.

When legendaries first released, AoM and SC'd resists didn't affect them at all. So unless it's a custom or later change, that's not how it would work. The only Resists that affected their damage are resist buffs and EM.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 10:06 PM by ughsmash
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 8:31 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 8:17 PM
a) Wrong - they are affected by your resists, such as resists from items, resists from resist-buffs, empty mind and AoM.

b) Because of a) people can get serious levels of AoM and return to a situation where mundane weapons might potentially be better, therefore returning to a where we started out (armour-disadvantage for SB's)

Since this is a custom-rules server I don't think simply changing all leathers to Alb-leather (for example) in case it is a stealther vs stealther melee-fight would be a bad idea as gruenesschaff posted as a possible solution in the other topic. It certainly is a lot less of a sweeping change as legendaries.

When legendaries first released, AoM and SC'd resists didn't affect them at all. So unless it's a custom or later change, that's not how it would work. The only Resists that affected their damage are resist buffs and EM.

I would absolutely agree with something like this as well. It is clear there is imbalance and no game will be perfectly balanced, but a 20 percent resist table swing is ruthless at best.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 10:43 PM by RioterControl
Forumz wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
RioterControl wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:20 AM
WTF is this shit? SBs are fine...they have always been fine. It takes maybe 20 min of researching if you never played this game to figure out what to do....are people just that stupid now? I play my SB maybe 2-3 times a week for 1-2 hours and have not had ANY issues vs other realms assassins. Just play the damn game with less whining.

Setup some fights with the better bladeshades on the server, I guarantee they obliterate you 9/10 times. Fuck I'll bet you 20 plat right now you can't win more then 1/10 fights against them.

Sure...who are they?

Haven't run into any NSs or Infs, specced blade or slash, that have come close to obliterating me unless they won PA while purge was down. So far have only been losing 1v1 fights when I don't get PA off first, purge is down, or they have heart of legion. Doesn't seem like the sky is falling scenario people paint with respect to blade shades vs SBs.

Its the same shit regurgitated for this shard that was whined about 20 years ago and on many other shards. Some how these murderous blade shades that obliterate all the SBs didnt back then, on other shards...and the same holds true here.
Tue 2 Apr 2019 10:51 PM by Mauriac
RioterControl wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 10:43 PM
Forumz wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
RioterControl wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:20 AM
WTF is this shit? SBs are fine...they have always been fine. It takes maybe 20 min of researching if you never played this game to figure out what to do....are people just that stupid now? I play my SB maybe 2-3 times a week for 1-2 hours and have not had ANY issues vs other realms assassins. Just play the damn game with less whining.

Setup some fights with the better bladeshades on the server, I guarantee they obliterate you 9/10 times. Fuck I'll bet you 20 plat right now you can't win more then 1/10 fights against them.

Sure...who are they?

Haven't run into any NSs or Infs, specced blade or slash, that have come close to obliterating me unless they won PA while purge was down. So far have only been losing 1v1 fights when I don't get PA off first, purge is down, or they have heart of legion. Doesn't seem like the sky is falling scenario people paint with respect to blade shades vs SBs.

Its the same shit regurgitated for this shard that was whined about 20 years ago and on many other shards. Some how these murderous blade shades that obliterate all the SBs didnt back then, on other shards...and the same holds true here.

I think a lack of specificity hurts this discussion. I can beat blade shades but it generally is limited to the lazy ones who only run combined forces and endo. If they're my RR or even 1 lower and running full buffs and charges like me I can tell very quickly because they chunk me like no ones business.

Furthermore, it's been said dozens of times, blade shades and Rangers have access to stuns that are custom to this patch level as do slash infs which is a significant buff. In the old version of this game they had a damage advantage but no stuns. Sb had a damage disadvantage but had a stun. On Phoenix, they have both the stun and the armor table advantages but SBs only have the stun. Seems like it's not a lot to ask to give SBs something to compensate because what used to be a slight advantage is now a pretty big one.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:01 AM by Peister
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 10:51 PM
RioterControl wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 10:43 PM
Forumz wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:51 PM
Setup some fights with the better bladeshades on the server, I guarantee they obliterate you 9/10 times. Fuck I'll bet you 20 plat right now you can't win more then 1/10 fights against them.

Sure...who are they?

Haven't run into any NSs or Infs, specced blade or slash, that have come close to obliterating me unless they won PA while purge was down. So far have only been losing 1v1 fights when I don't get PA off first, purge is down, or they have heart of legion. Doesn't seem like the sky is falling scenario people paint with respect to blade shades vs SBs.

Its the same shit regurgitated for this shard that was whined about 20 years ago and on many other shards. Some how these murderous blade shades that obliterate all the SBs didnt back then, on other shards...and the same holds true here.

I think a lack of specificity hurts this discussion. I can beat blade shades but it generally is limited to the lazy ones who only run combined forces and endo. If they're my RR or even 1 lower and running full buffs and charges like me I can tell very quickly because they chunk me like no ones business.

Furthermore, it's been said dozens of times, blade shades and Rangers have access to stuns that are custom to this patch level as do slash infs which is a significant buff. In the old version of this game they had a damage advantage but no stuns. Sb had a damage disadvantage but had a stun. On Phoenix, they have both the stun and the armor table advantages but SBs only have the stun. Seems like it's not a lot to ask to give SBs something to compensate because what used to be a slight advantage is now a pretty big one.

So remove the off evade stun for infils on slash line (which you call a significant buff), will it make your tears dissappear? let me tell you a secret, DW also has a 2 combo stun *shocker*
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:27 AM by Mauriac
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:01 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 10:51 PM
RioterControl wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 10:43 PM
Sure...who are they?

Haven't run into any NSs or Infs, specced blade or slash, that have come close to obliterating me unless they won PA while purge was down. So far have only been losing 1v1 fights when I don't get PA off first, purge is down, or they have heart of legion. Doesn't seem like the sky is falling scenario people paint with respect to blade shades vs SBs.

Its the same shit regurgitated for this shard that was whined about 20 years ago and on many other shards. Some how these murderous blade shades that obliterate all the SBs didnt back then, on other shards...and the same holds true here.

I think a lack of specificity hurts this discussion. I can beat blade shades but it generally is limited to the lazy ones who only run combined forces and endo. If they're my RR or even 1 lower and running full buffs and charges like me I can tell very quickly because they chunk me like no ones business.

Furthermore, it's been said dozens of times, blade shades and Rangers have access to stuns that are custom to this patch level as do slash infs which is a significant buff. In the old version of this game they had a damage advantage but no stuns. Sb had a damage disadvantage but had a stun. On Phoenix, they have both the stun and the armor table advantages but SBs only have the stun. Seems like it's not a lot to ask to give SBs something to compensate because what used to be a slight advantage is now a pretty big one.

So remove the off evade stun for infils on slash line (which you call a significant buff), will it make your tears dissappear? let me tell you a secret, DW also has a 2 combo stun *shocker*

Thank you for reinforcing my point rofl. This your first time playing daoc? If so welcome but let me fill you in on a little daoc history since you literally just proved my point and obviously think you were being witty. That is custom to Phoenix and didn't exist before. In 1. 65 the only stun infils had access to was dragonfang and it was 9 seconds. Infils getting stun in slash, dw and off bear tooth is custom Phoenix and was never a feature of live until after catacombs. Later on, infils got an off evade stun on dw and slash and SBs got *shocker* access to crush damage while everyone had access to legendary weapons so armor tables weren't as big of an issue. Next time you try and come into this conversation with some witty bullshit at least know the history.

Also, is there a reason you run SL pots all the time? You're R7 slash, you don't need them, you play your inf well enough as it is. And you're solo most of what I see so #respect.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:46 AM by Peister
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:27 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:01 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 10:51 PM
I think a lack of specificity hurts this discussion. I can beat blade shades but it generally is limited to the lazy ones who only run combined forces and endo. If they're my RR or even 1 lower and running full buffs and charges like me I can tell very quickly because they chunk me like no ones business.

Furthermore, it's been said dozens of times, blade shades and Rangers have access to stuns that are custom to this patch level as do slash infs which is a significant buff. In the old version of this game they had a damage advantage but no stuns. Sb had a damage disadvantage but had a stun. On Phoenix, they have both the stun and the armor table advantages but SBs only have the stun. Seems like it's not a lot to ask to give SBs something to compensate because what used to be a slight advantage is now a pretty big one.

So remove the off evade stun for infils on slash line (which you call a significant buff), will it make your tears dissappear? let me tell you a secret, DW also has a 2 combo stun *shocker*

Thank you for reinforcing my point rofl. This your first time playing daoc? If so welcome but let me fill you in on a little daoc history since you literally just proved my point and obviously think you were being witty. That is custom to Phoenix and didn't exist before. In 1. 65 the only stun infils had access to was dragonfang and it was 9 seconds. Infils getting stun in slash, dw and off bear tooth is custom Phoenix and was never a feature of live until after catacombs. Later on, infils got an off evade stun on dw and slash and SBs got *shocker* access to crush damage while everyone had access to legendary weapons so armor tables weren't as big of an issue. Next time you try and come into this conversation with some witty bullshit at least know the history.

Also, is there a reason you run SL pots all the time? You're R7 slash, you don't need them, you play your inf well enough as it is. And you're solo most of what I see so #respect.

From what i remember the hypnotic darkness lvl 44 style have always been a 7s 2combo stun..
Why is it the same on uthgard if it wasnt in 1.65 then?

and i dont run SL potions, dont know where you get that from, i just use my brain when ppl vanish, and predict their movement, but keep making up stuff lol! youre pretty good at it!
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:59 AM by ughsmash
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:46 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:27 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:01 AM
So remove the off evade stun for infils on slash line (which you call a significant buff), will it make your tears dissappear? let me tell you a secret, DW also has a 2 combo stun *shocker*

Thank you for reinforcing my point rofl. This your first time playing daoc? If so welcome but let me fill you in on a little daoc history since you literally just proved my point and obviously think you were being witty. That is custom to Phoenix and didn't exist before. In 1. 65 the only stun infils had access to was dragonfang and it was 9 seconds. Infils getting stun in slash, dw and off bear tooth is custom Phoenix and was never a feature of live until after catacombs. Later on, infils got an off evade stun on dw and slash and SBs got *shocker* access to crush damage while everyone had access to legendary weapons so armor tables weren't as big of an issue. Next time you try and come into this conversation with some witty bullshit at least know the history.

Also, is there a reason you run SL pots all the time? You're R7 slash, you don't need them, you play your inf well enough as it is. And you're solo most of what I see so #respect.

From what i remember the hypnotic darkness lvl 44 style have always been a 7s 2combo stun..
Why is it the same on uthgard if it wasnt in 1.65 then?

and i dont run SL potions, dont know where you get that from, i just use my brain when ppl vanish, and predict their movement, but keep making up stuff lol! youre pretty good at it!

That was a parry style that they converted to evade. It was always a 7s 2combo stun, but it was off parry. The only realm that had off of evade stun for Slash lines was Shadowblades that was their unique thing. This server and maybe uthgard I dont know much about that server added it. Because they just went through and converted all block and parry styles on Assassins to evade, but did not take into consideration they were messing with the balance of the classes by adding Stun on evade to both NS and Inf who never had it in those lines before.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:01 AM by Mauriac
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:46 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:27 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:01 AM
So remove the off evade stun for infils on slash line (which you call a significant buff), will it make your tears dissappear? let me tell you a secret, DW also has a 2 combo stun *shocker*

Thank you for reinforcing my point rofl. This your first time playing daoc? If so welcome but let me fill you in on a little daoc history since you literally just proved my point and obviously think you were being witty. That is custom to Phoenix and didn't exist before. In 1. 65 the only stun infils had access to was dragonfang and it was 9 seconds. Infils getting stun in slash, dw and off bear tooth is custom Phoenix and was never a feature of live until after catacombs. Later on, infils got an off evade stun on dw and slash and SBs got *shocker* access to crush damage while everyone had access to legendary weapons so armor tables weren't as big of an issue. Next time you try and come into this conversation with some witty bullshit at least know the history.

Also, is there a reason you run SL pots all the time? You're R7 slash, you don't need them, you play your inf well enough as it is. And you're solo most of what I see so #respect.

From what i remember the hypnotic darkness lvl 44 style have always been a 7s 2combo stun..
Why is it the same on uthgard if it wasnt in 1.65 then?

and i dont run SL potions, dont know where you get that from, i just use my brain when ppl vanish, and predict their movement, but keep making up stuff lol! youre pretty good at it!

Just FYI you've never caught me in a vanish so not sure what you're talking about. You're an r7 slash inf and I'm an r5 sb so I avoid you because I can't win. And from what you remember about hypnotic darkness is wrong. That change didn't happen until almost 5 years after this patch level. Hypnotic darkness was off parry, not evade at this patch level. One of us is making shit up here but it's not me. Keep trying
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:07 AM by dbeattie71
ughsmash wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:59 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:46 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:27 AM
Thank you for reinforcing my point rofl. This your first time playing daoc? If so welcome but let me fill you in on a little daoc history since you literally just proved my point and obviously think you were being witty. That is custom to Phoenix and didn't exist before. In 1. 65 the only stun infils had access to was dragonfang and it was 9 seconds. Infils getting stun in slash, dw and off bear tooth is custom Phoenix and was never a feature of live until after catacombs. Later on, infils got an off evade stun on dw and slash and SBs got *shocker* access to crush damage while everyone had access to legendary weapons so armor tables weren't as big of an issue. Next time you try and come into this conversation with some witty bullshit at least know the history.

Also, is there a reason you run SL pots all the time? You're R7 slash, you don't need them, you play your inf well enough as it is. And you're solo most of what I see so #respect.

From what i remember the hypnotic darkness lvl 44 style have always been a 7s 2combo stun..
Why is it the same on uthgard if it wasnt in 1.65 then?

and i dont run SL potions, dont know where you get that from, i just use my brain when ppl vanish, and predict their movement, but keep making up stuff lol! youre pretty good at it!

That was a parry style that they converted to evade. It was always a 7s 2combo stun, but it was off parry. The only realm that had off of evade stun for Slash lines was Shadowblades that was their unique thing. This server and maybe uthgard I dont know much about that server added it. Because they just went through and converted all block and parry styles on Assassins to evade, but did not take into consideration they were messing with the balance of the classes by adding Stun on evade to both NS and Inf who never had it in those lines before.

That’s like SBs and Infs having access to Viper...wait.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:09 AM by dbeattie71
When can we see the pics of a SB getting clubbed by a Ranger?
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:17 AM by Mauriac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:07 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:59 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:46 AM
From what i remember the hypnotic darkness lvl 44 style have always been a 7s 2combo stun..
Why is it the same on uthgard if it wasnt in 1.65 then?

and i dont run SL potions, dont know where you get that from, i just use my brain when ppl vanish, and predict their movement, but keep making up stuff lol! youre pretty good at it!

That was a parry style that they converted to evade. It was always a 7s 2combo stun, but it was off parry. The only realm that had off of evade stun for Slash lines was Shadowblades that was their unique thing. This server and maybe uthgard I dont know much about that server added it. Because they just went through and converted all block and parry styles on Assassins to evade, but did not take into consideration they were messing with the balance of the classes by adding Stun on evade to both NS and Inf who never had it in those lines before.

That’s like SBs and Infs having access to Viper...wait.

And SB and NS having access to vanish.... Wait.

Maybe everyone should just get shadowrun cause that was useful....
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:17 AM by Mauriac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:09 AM
When can we see the pics of a SB getting clubbed by a Ranger?

When I get back to my comp
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 AM by Peister
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:01 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:46 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:27 AM
Thank you for reinforcing my point rofl. This your first time playing daoc? If so welcome but let me fill you in on a little daoc history since you literally just proved my point and obviously think you were being witty. That is custom to Phoenix and didn't exist before. In 1. 65 the only stun infils had access to was dragonfang and it was 9 seconds. Infils getting stun in slash, dw and off bear tooth is custom Phoenix and was never a feature of live until after catacombs. Later on, infils got an off evade stun on dw and slash and SBs got *shocker* access to crush damage while everyone had access to legendary weapons so armor tables weren't as big of an issue. Next time you try and come into this conversation with some witty bullshit at least know the history.

Also, is there a reason you run SL pots all the time? You're R7 slash, you don't need them, you play your inf well enough as it is. And you're solo most of what I see so #respect.

From what i remember the hypnotic darkness lvl 44 style have always been a 7s 2combo stun..
Why is it the same on uthgard if it wasnt in 1.65 then?

and i dont run SL potions, dont know where you get that from, i just use my brain when ppl vanish, and predict their movement, but keep making up stuff lol! youre pretty good at it!

Just FYI you've never caught me in a vanish so not sure what you're talking about. You're an r7 slash inf and I'm an r5 sb so I avoid you because I can't win. And from what you remember about hypnotic darkness is wrong. That change didn't happen until almost 5 years after this patch level. Hypnotic darkness was off parry, not evade at this patch level. One of us is making shit up here but it's not me. Keep trying

I dont Even know Who you are, but anyway, i said i thought it was off evade, i didnt state it.. So im not making stuff up.. And for the making up stuff, you just told me i run SL pots All the time, that is not true, so it is something you made up!
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:28 AM by Mauriac
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:01 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:46 AM
From what i remember the hypnotic darkness lvl 44 style have always been a 7s 2combo stun..
Why is it the same on uthgard if it wasnt in 1.65 then?

and i dont run SL potions, dont know where you get that from, i just use my brain when ppl vanish, and predict their movement, but keep making up stuff lol! youre pretty good at it!

Just FYI you've never caught me in a vanish so not sure what you're talking about. You're an r7 slash inf and I'm an r5 sb so I avoid you because I can't win. And from what you remember about hypnotic darkness is wrong. That change didn't happen until almost 5 years after this patch level. Hypnotic darkness was off parry, not evade at this patch level. One of us is making shit up here but it's not me. Keep trying

I dont Even know Who you are, but anyway, i said i thought it was off evade, i didnt state it.. So im not making stuff up.. And for the making up stuff, you just told me i run SL pots All the time, that is not true, so it is something you made up!

It is true. All assassins with 50 comp stealth have the same detection. However, if you run an SL pot it increases your detection and reduces theirs. Funny thing is the few times I've encountered you I literally never saw you at all until you hit me which isn't true for ANY other sneak on the server that I've encountered. Others have told me the same thing fighting you. The only way that happens is SL. It doesn't make you a bad player to run them. Honestly, it's smart. If I was rich I probably would but I don't spend money on claws. Not admitting it when it's obvious is a little weird though. At any rate, Gl to you. I'll keep avoiding you because I don't like to take non winnable fights.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:41 AM by Peister
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:28 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:01 AM
Just FYI you've never caught me in a vanish so not sure what you're talking about. You're an r7 slash inf and I'm an r5 sb so I avoid you because I can't win. And from what you remember about hypnotic darkness is wrong. That change didn't happen until almost 5 years after this patch level. Hypnotic darkness was off parry, not evade at this patch level. One of us is making shit up here but it's not me. Keep trying

I dont Even know Who you are, but anyway, i said i thought it was off evade, i didnt state it.. So im not making stuff up.. And for the making up stuff, you just told me i run SL pots All the time, that is not true, so it is something you made up!

It is true. All assassins with 50 comp stealth have the same detection. However, if you run an SL pot it increases your detection and reduces theirs. Funny thing is the few times I've encountered you I literally never saw you at all until you hit me which isn't true for ANY other sneak on the server that I've encountered. Others have told me the same thing fighting you. The only way that happens is SL. It doesn't make you a bad player to run them. Honestly, it's smart. If I was rich I probably would but I don't spend money on claws. Not admitting it when it's obvious is a little weird though. At any rate, Gl to you. I'll keep avoiding you because I don't like to take non winnable fights.

So because you cant win PA against me i use SL pots? Nice logic 😂..
I can guarantee you i dont run SL pots, and I can also guarantee you that i am faster with PA than 90% of the SBs currently playing, mb phixion or trellina beats me somtimes, and for NS Xann beats me somtimes,.. But making up Lies cus youre slower at reacting is pretty damn low imo..
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:43 AM by Cadebrennus
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:28 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:01 AM
Just FYI you've never caught me in a vanish so not sure what you're talking about. You're an r7 slash inf and I'm an r5 sb so I avoid you because I can't win. And from what you remember about hypnotic darkness is wrong. That change didn't happen until almost 5 years after this patch level. Hypnotic darkness was off parry, not evade at this patch level. One of us is making shit up here but it's not me. Keep trying

I dont Even know Who you are, but anyway, i said i thought it was off evade, i didnt state it.. So im not making stuff up.. And for the making up stuff, you just told me i run SL pots All the time, that is not true, so it is something you made up!

It is true. All assassins with 50 comp stealth have the same detection. However, if you run an SL pot it increases your detection and reduces theirs. Funny thing is the few times I've encountered you I literally never saw you at all until you hit me which isn't true for ANY other sneak on the server that I've encountered. Others have told me the same thing fighting you. The only way that happens is SL. It doesn't make you a bad player to run them. Honestly, it's smart. If I was rich I probably would but I don't spend money on claws. Not admitting it when it's obvious is a little weird though. At any rate, Gl to you. I'll keep avoiding you because I don't like to take non winnable fights.

You seem to be pretty misinformed. Stealth lore pots and the RA only increase your own detection range. Neither one decreases your opponent's detection range.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:47 AM by Peister
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:43 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:28 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 AM
I dont Even know Who you are, but anyway, i said i thought it was off evade, i didnt state it.. So im not making stuff up.. And for the making up stuff, you just told me i run SL pots All the time, that is not true, so it is something you made up!

It is true. All assassins with 50 comp stealth have the same detection. However, if you run an SL pot it increases your detection and reduces theirs. Funny thing is the few times I've encountered you I literally never saw you at all until you hit me which isn't true for ANY other sneak on the server that I've encountered. Others have told me the same thing fighting you. The only way that happens is SL. It doesn't make you a bad player to run them. Honestly, it's smart. If I was rich I probably would but I don't spend money on claws. Not admitting it when it's obvious is a little weird though. At any rate, Gl to you. I'll keep avoiding you because I don't like to take non winnable fights.

You seem to be pretty misinformed. Stealth lore pots and the RA only increase your own detection range. Neither one decreases your opponent's detection range.

But if they cant beat me, i must be cheating!!!
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:49 AM by Cadebrennus
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:47 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:43 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:28 AM
It is true. All assassins with 50 comp stealth have the same detection. However, if you run an SL pot it increases your detection and reduces theirs. Funny thing is the few times I've encountered you I literally never saw you at all until you hit me which isn't true for ANY other sneak on the server that I've encountered. Others have told me the same thing fighting you. The only way that happens is SL. It doesn't make you a bad player to run them. Honestly, it's smart. If I was rich I probably would but I don't spend money on claws. Not admitting it when it's obvious is a little weird though. At any rate, Gl to you. I'll keep avoiding you because I don't like to take non winnable fights.

You seem to be pretty misinformed. Stealth lore pots and the RA only increase your own detection range. Neither one decreases your opponent's detection range.

But if they cant beat me, i must be cheating!!!

I know the feeling. I was personally responsible for the 30% physical damage nerf on live lol.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:49 AM by Mauriac
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:43 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:28 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:24 AM
I dont Even know Who you are, but anyway, i said i thought it was off evade, i didnt state it.. So im not making stuff up.. And for the making up stuff, you just told me i run SL pots All the time, that is not true, so it is something you made up!

It is true. All assassins with 50 comp stealth have the same detection. However, if you run an SL pot it increases your detection and reduces theirs. Funny thing is the few times I've encountered you I literally never saw you at all until you hit me which isn't true for ANY other sneak on the server that I've encountered. Others have told me the same thing fighting you. The only way that happens is SL. It doesn't make you a bad player to run them. Honestly, it's smart. If I was rich I probably would but I don't spend money on claws. Not admitting it when it's obvious is a little weird though. At any rate, Gl to you. I'll keep avoiding you because I don't like to take non winnable fights.

You seem to be pretty misinformed. Stealth lore pots and the RA only increase your own detection range. Neither one decreases your opponent's detection range.

Here's stealth lore description.

"Target has a greater chance of uncovering stealth opponents. If the target has the Stealth skill, their ability to remain hidden is greater as well."

Thanks
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:50 AM by Mauriac
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:47 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:43 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:28 AM
It is true. All assassins with 50 comp stealth have the same detection. However, if you run an SL pot it increases your detection and reduces theirs. Funny thing is the few times I've encountered you I literally never saw you at all until you hit me which isn't true for ANY other sneak on the server that I've encountered. Others have told me the same thing fighting you. The only way that happens is SL. It doesn't make you a bad player to run them. Honestly, it's smart. If I was rich I probably would but I don't spend money on claws. Not admitting it when it's obvious is a little weird though. At any rate, Gl to you. I'll keep avoiding you because I don't like to take non winnable fights.

You seem to be pretty misinformed. Stealth lore pots and the RA only increase your own detection range. Neither one decreases your opponent's detection range.

But if they cant beat me, i must be cheating!!!

Who said anything about cheating? I didn't. There you go again
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:52 AM by qq6
Hello, could you please stop vanishing all the time plz. /wave

On the topic of buffing SBs, i cannot say much, except that i have met some that are very tough to kill, and some that are less so, gl with discussion
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:52 AM by Cadebrennus
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:49 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:43 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:28 AM
It is true. All assassins with 50 comp stealth have the same detection. However, if you run an SL pot it increases your detection and reduces theirs. Funny thing is the few times I've encountered you I literally never saw you at all until you hit me which isn't true for ANY other sneak on the server that I've encountered. Others have told me the same thing fighting you. The only way that happens is SL. It doesn't make you a bad player to run them. Honestly, it's smart. If I was rich I probably would but I don't spend money on claws. Not admitting it when it's obvious is a little weird though. At any rate, Gl to you. I'll keep avoiding you because I don't like to take non winnable fights.

You seem to be pretty misinformed. Stealth lore pots and the RA only increase your own detection range. Neither one decreases your opponent's detection range.

Here's stealth lore description.

"Target has a greater chance of uncovering stealth opponents. If the target has the Stealth skill, their ability to remain hidden is greater as well."

Thanks

You can thank the shitty writing, not me. Extensive testing has been done before on stealth and it doesn't work that way.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:55 AM by dbeattie71
qq6 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:52 AM
Hello, could you please stop vanishing all the time plz. /wave

On the topic of buffing SBs, i cannot say much, except that i have met some that are very tough to kill, and some that are less so, gl with discussion

Lol, no kidding.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:58 AM by Peister
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:50 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:47 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:43 AM
You seem to be pretty misinformed. Stealth lore pots and the RA only increase your own detection range. Neither one decreases your opponent's detection range.

But if they cant beat me, i must be cheating!!!

Who said anything about cheating? I didn't. There you go again

So let me refrase myself "he must be runnin SL pots cus we cant beat him" at the end of the Day, All the crying SBs are just bad, that is the truth, keep crying nerf this nerf that, it wont make you better at the game..
i dont cry about bladeshades Who have the same advantage over me, i try to outplay Them.. Same goes for thrust infils, do you see Them crying here cus mid leather is resistent to Them?
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:03 AM by Mauriac
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:58 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:50 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:47 AM
But if they cant beat me, i must be cheating!!!

Who said anything about cheating? I didn't. There you go again

So let me refrase myself "he must be runnin SL pots cus we cant beat him" at the end of the Day, All the crying SBs are just bad, that is the truth, keep crying nerf this nerf that, it wont make you better at the game..
i dont cry about bladeshades Who have the same advantage over me, i try to outplay Them.. Same goes for thrust infils, do you see Them crying here cus mid leather is resistent to Them?

I can't beat you because you play your class well and I'm rr5 and you're rr7 and slash. All the SBs who are "crying" are not bad. They're voicing their feelings about a legitimate problem. You can ignore it or make up whatever you want or flame all you want, doesn't mean you're correct. Phixion and others have mentioned multiple times the disadvantages SBs have. It doesn't mean we can't win or never win. It means we're at a disadvantage due to custom aspects of this server that we're not a part of this patch level. If you don't know that, fine, if you're incapable of understanding that, which is starting to appear to be the case, then this discussion is basically pointless. Good luck out there
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:08 AM by Peister
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:03 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:58 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:50 AM
Who said anything about cheating? I didn't. There you go again

So let me refrase myself "he must be runnin SL pots cus we cant beat him" at the end of the Day, All the crying SBs are just bad, that is the truth, keep crying nerf this nerf that, it wont make you better at the game..
i dont cry about bladeshades Who have the same advantage over me, i try to outplay Them.. Same goes for thrust infils, do you see Them crying here cus mid leather is resistent to Them?

I can't beat you because you play your class well and I'm rr5 and you're rr7 and slash. All the SBs who are "crying" are not bad. They're voicing their feelings about a legitimate problem. You can ignore it or make up whatever you want or flame all you want, doesn't mean you're correct. Phixion and others have mentioned multiple times the disadvantages SBs have. It doesn't mean we can't win or never win. It means we're at a disadvantage due to custom aspects of this server that we're not a part of this patch level. If you don't know that, fine, if you're incapable of understanding that, which is starting to appear to be the case, then this discussion is basically pointless. Good luck out there

So now you are trying to divert from the SL Thing we were discussing? Is it that hard to admit youre whrong and are making false accusations? I guess so...
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:10 AM by Mauriac
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:08 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:03 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:58 AM
So let me refrase myself "he must be runnin SL pots cus we cant beat him" at the end of the Day, All the crying SBs are just bad, that is the truth, keep crying nerf this nerf that, it wont make you better at the game..
i dont cry about bladeshades Who have the same advantage over me, i try to outplay Them.. Same goes for thrust infils, do you see Them crying here cus mid leather is resistent to Them?

I can't beat you because you play your class well and I'm rr5 and you're rr7 and slash. All the SBs who are "crying" are not bad. They're voicing their feelings about a legitimate problem. You can ignore it or make up whatever you want or flame all you want, doesn't mean you're correct. Phixion and others have mentioned multiple times the disadvantages SBs have. It doesn't mean we can't win or never win. It means we're at a disadvantage due to custom aspects of this server that we're not a part of this patch level. If you don't know that, fine, if you're incapable of understanding that, which is starting to appear to be the case, then this discussion is basically pointless. Good luck out there

So now you are trying to divert from the SL Thing we were discussing? Is it that hard to admit youre whrong and are making false accusations? I guess so...

I'm not diverting from that. I gave an answer to your response about not being able to beat you. Either your comprehension is shit or you just jump around a lot. Whatever, again, good luck
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:11 AM by Peister
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:10 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:08 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:03 AM
I can't beat you because you play your class well and I'm rr5 and you're rr7 and slash. All the SBs who are "crying" are not bad. They're voicing their feelings about a legitimate problem. You can ignore it or make up whatever you want or flame all you want, doesn't mean you're correct. Phixion and others have mentioned multiple times the disadvantages SBs have. It doesn't mean we can't win or never win. It means we're at a disadvantage due to custom aspects of this server that we're not a part of this patch level. If you don't know that, fine, if you're incapable of understanding that, which is starting to appear to be the case, then this discussion is basically pointless. Good luck out there

So now you are trying to divert from the SL Thing we were discussing? Is it that hard to admit youre whrong and are making false accusations? I guess so...

I'm not diverting from that. I gave an answer to your response about not being able to beat you. Are you english second language?

Yes it is, and you can be rude All you want, it makes you look bad, not me..
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:14 AM by Mauriac
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:11 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:10 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:08 AM
So now you are trying to divert from the SL Thing we were discussing? Is it that hard to admit youre whrong and are making false accusations? I guess so...

I'm not diverting from that. I gave an answer to your response about not being able to beat you. Are you english second language?

Yes it is, and you can be rude All you want, it makes you look bad, not me..

I really don't care how you think it makes me look. Your opinion doesn't mean anything to me just as mine clearly means nothing to you which doesn't bother me either. Hope you keep having fun and enjoying the server as I intend to keep doing.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:17 AM by Peister
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:14 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:11 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:10 AM
I'm not diverting from that. I gave an answer to your response about not being able to beat you. Are you english second language?

Yes it is, and you can be rude All you want, it makes you look bad, not me..

I really don't care how you think it makes me look. Your opinion doesn't mean anything to me just as mine clearly means nothing to you which doesn't bother me either. Hope you keep having fun and enjoying the server as I intend to keep doing.

You dont care but yet you Edit your post, sure
Same to you, have fun, and cya on the battlefield
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:18 AM by Mauriac
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:17 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:14 AM
Peister wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:11 AM
Yes it is, and you can be rude All you want, it makes you look bad, not me..

I really don't care how you think it makes me look. Your opinion doesn't mean anything to me just as mine clearly means nothing to you which doesn't bother me either. Hope you keep having fun and enjoying the server as I intend to keep doing.

You dont care but yet you Edit your post, sure
Same to you, have fun, and cya on the battlefield

Really not sure where you're going with that but eh. You likely won't see me. As I said, if I know where you are I avoid it because unless your purge is down I won't win. Maybe someday though
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:27 AM by jelzinga_EU
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 8:31 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 8:17 PM
a) Wrong - they are affected by your resists, such as resists from items, resists from resist-buffs, empty mind and AoM.

b) Because of a) people can get serious levels of AoM and return to a situation where mundane weapons might potentially be better, therefore returning to a where we started out (armour-disadvantage for SB's)

Since this is a custom-rules server I don't think simply changing all leathers to Alb-leather (for example) in case it is a stealther vs stealther melee-fight would be a bad idea as gruenesschaff posted as a possible solution in the other topic. It certainly is a lot less of a sweeping change as legendaries.

When legendaries first released, AoM and SC'd resists didn't affect them at all. So unless it's a custom or later change, that's not how it would work. The only Resists that affected their damage are resist buffs and EM.

You got a source for this custom / later change? In their current state on live legendaries are affected by all sources of resists and I also remember how SC'ed resists (and AoM) affected them when TOA was around in Old Frontier. Obviously my memory can be wrong, but unless you can show a source of this change in a patch-note there is no reason to assume legendaries damage-behavior on resists was changed.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM by Mauriac
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

[attachment=1]part 1.jpg[/attachment]

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

[attachment=0]part 2.jpg[/attachment]

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:11 AM by Riac
these screenshots are just an opinion. sbs are fine!
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:16 AM by Sepplord
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:26 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:21 PM
Ashenspire wrote:
Tue 2 Apr 2019 3:17 PM
But good assassins don't template for weapons. So I think we've found your problem.

Rich assassins do...

What'S wrong with having a MH-free only set, or utilizing a few stats from the feather-weapon of your choice?

Nothing wrong with that at all.

Just don't confuse your lack of desire to completely optimize your class with the class being inherently flawed against others that choose to do so.

heavy assumptions there... even if my temp was completely weaponless (and it basically is so i wouldn't have to retemp to use leg weapons).
Still sucks to have 40-120k feathers invalidated because the weapons are now useless. If the change comes i have the plats and feathers to retemp 3SBs...that doesn't mean i want to spend it on that though
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:18 AM by Riac
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump. till a legitimate answer to why this is the reality everything else is a bit irrelevant.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:21 AM by dbeattie71
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

Beast mode right there, funny, people told me making a shar Ranger was dumb but I like to try dumb stuff. Like I said, built for one thing and shootin' arrows ain't one of them.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:23 AM by Riac
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:18 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump. till a legitimate answer to why this is the reality everything else is a bit irrelevant.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:24 AM by jelzinga_EU
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:11 AM
these screenshots are just an opinion. sbs are fine!

Yup - in before :

"That ranger is 50 Blades specs, he should hit hard"
"You probably had no spec-AF up wearing ROGs/naked"
"This means nothing without weapon-speed"
"The ranger probably has no haste no D/Q buff!"
"You should go 2H on him!"
"You spec sucks"

Give SB's Hammer spec for 1 week just so everyone who's not playing a Mid-sneak can see what weak to a damage-type means. Then they might understand....
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:28 AM by Forumz
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:21 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

Beast mode right there, funny, people told me making a shar Ranger was dumb but I like to try dumb stuff. Like I said, built for one thing and shootin' arrows ain't one of them.

built for one thing, so the one thing is to dumpster shadowblades because the discrepancy is pretty clear here.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:28 AM by Mauriac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:21 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

Beast mode right there, funny, people told me making a shar Ranger was dumb but I like to try dumb stuff. Like I said, built for one thing and shootin' arrows ain't one of them.

yeah man. you hit like a freight train. dont hurt me.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:29 AM by Riac
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:23 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:18 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump. till a legitimate answer to why this is the reality everything else is a bit irrelevant.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:31 AM by Mavella
PD melee rangers were god mode on Uthgard back in the day. Thank God that shit ain't here. I fear the day when most of the ranger population here actually learns how to spec them to do proper melee damage.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:32 AM by dbeattie71
Forumz wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:28 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:21 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

Beast mode right there, funny, people told me making a shar Ranger was dumb but I like to try dumb stuff. Like I said, built for one thing and shootin' arrows ain't one of them.

built for one thing, so the one thing is to dumpster shadowblades because the discrepancy is pretty clear here.

Bad ones, the good ones work me over, Inchai and Haduri might be able to give you some tips. Change armor I don't care, I'll still pummel bad SBs, well, at least when their vanish is down.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:33 AM by qq6
@post about shar rangers, do you know how many there are above rr5l1? like 6-7 total, come on, thats such a small number. Do you know how many targets in mid a blade ranger can go up against? Very very few, there are almost no hunters, vs sb its mostly a coin toss, not talking high RR vs low RR here, rest just dont go out solo, i saw, maybe 1 savage solo during all my play time. If you play a melee blade ranger (shar), yes, you kinda spec to kill assassins, but, finding them is hard enough and if you do find them, u have to land that first hit or you mostly lose even with IP and all the heals. I very rarely see sbs, top sbs i had fights against were very very close with all my cds.

You basically get to choose, to fight them or not, with greater detection and vanish. Yet you still are talking about how its unfair that such a small % of ppl can kill you, sometimes.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:36 AM by Mauriac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:32 AM
Forumz wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:28 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:21 AM
Beast mode right there, funny, people told me making a shar Ranger was dumb but I like to try dumb stuff. Like I said, built for one thing and shootin' arrows ain't one of them.

built for one thing, so the one thing is to dumpster shadowblades because the discrepancy is pretty clear here.

Bad ones, the good ones work me over, Inchai and Haduri might be able to give you some tips. Change armor I don't care, I'll still pummel bad SBs, well, at least when their vanish is down.

Yes Inchai and Haduri are good. Theyre also both RR7 and you're RR4 so no kidding they work you over. I also work over RR3 and RR2 friars, the RR4 and higher ones tear me apart.

Hopefully you're not making the mistake of confusing "good" with Realm Rank. As I said both Inchai and Haduri are good SBs, theyre also high RR. There are also plenty of people playing sneaks who are RR3 and 4 and are good players. Also plenty who are RR5+ and not very good. Just putting that one out there.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:37 AM by Riac
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump, till an answer.

also as to the ranger above, so ranger has the disadvantage of being seen first imagine the ns that have the same visions as us and yet get a 20% spread. they will be doing the same dmg the blade rangers are, only difference is they dont have ip. they still have the pot/charge/reactive heal or ablat.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:39 AM by Mauriac
qq6 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:33 AM
@post about shar rangers, do you know how many there are above rr5l1? like 6-7 total, come on, thats such a small number. Do you know how many targets in mid a blade ranger can go up against? Very very few, there are almost no hunters, vs sb its mostly a coin toss, not talking high RR vs low RR here, rest just dont go out solo, i saw, maybe 1 savage solo during all my play time. If you play a melee blade ranger (shar), yes, you kinda spec to kill assassins, but, finding them is hard enough and if you do find them, u have to land that first hit or you mostly lose even with IP and all the heals. I very rarely see sbs, top sbs i had fights against were very very close with all my cds.

You basically get to choose, to fight them or not, with greater detection and vanish. Yet you still are talking about how its unfair that such a small % of ppl can kill you, sometimes.

that post wasn't specifically about shar blade rangers dude. it's simply an example of a bigger trend SBs have to deal with. It's certainly on the top end of that example, but not far outside the norm.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:42 AM by Riac
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:37 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump, till an answer.

also as to the ranger above, so ranger has the disadvantage of being seen first imagine the ns that have the same visions as us and yet get a 20% spread. they will be doing the same dmg the blade rangers are, only difference is they dont have ip. they still have the pot/charge/reactive heal or ablat.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:49 AM by qq6
About ns blade, i very much doubt they do the same dmg as a shar, most play luris. We can test if you want to see, i dont mind.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:50 AM by dbeattie71
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:36 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:32 AM
Forumz wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:28 AM
built for one thing, so the one thing is to dumpster shadowblades because the discrepancy is pretty clear here.

Bad ones, the good ones work me over, Inchai and Haduri might be able to give you some tips. Change armor I don't care, I'll still pummel bad SBs, well, at least when their vanish is down.

Yes Inchai and Haduri are good. Theyre also both RR7 and you're RR4 so no kidding they work you over. I also work over RR3 and RR2 friars, the RR4 and higher ones tear me apart.

Hopefully you're not making the mistake of confusing "good" with Realm Rank. As I said both Inchai and Haduri are good SBs, theyre also high RR. There are also plenty of people playing sneaks who are RR3 and 4 and are good players. Also plenty who are RR5+ and not very good. Just putting that one out there.

When I played my shade I had to completely change how control the toon, at first I was a bumbling nub and actually had to practice but I wanted to be able to PA other stealths. PA'n another sin is tough but I can still land them, PAn an archer is easy. One con is I react without thinking and have PAd a few people coming up behind me leading full groups, eh, w/e, still landed it. My point is, you get 125 units on me and when that fight started, I hit you first on my shade I would have landed PA. You don't keyboard turn or something do you?
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:52 AM by Riac
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump till this is answered.
\
@ the person saying luris wont hit as hard as shar rangers
do you think the 60 str vs the 40 str is going to knock 60-100 off their mh dmg? to pretend this isnt a real issue is just disingenuous.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:54 AM by dbeattie71
You know Rangers get a spec str buff right? Buffed I have 303 str.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:57 AM by Riac
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:52 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump till this is answered.

the ns dont have much str under yours once they get mostr 6 (i get mopain 6 to keep up, so i waste as many points as they do). also i played a melee ranger on old uth when pd was a thing, i know what pf gets and i know what charges and pots give on this server.

is that 20 str going to knock 60-100 dmg off your mh?
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:58 AM by Saroi
So to the Ranger fight.

Hitting 102 damage on a Ranger. Duo to the studded resist(10% less damage), it would mean you would hit about 115 damage if the resists from armor would be neutral. Ranger hitting back for 190 damage (10% more duo to vulnerable), which would be around 170-175 damage on neutral armor. Even with Armor change, the ranger duo to his selfbuffs and all the other stuff will hit harder. (Unless he isn't a melee ranger)

A lot of people are also forgetting the LA and CD/DW mechanics, You will always hit for less damage as a SB.

It is being said, that NS/Inf got new stuns for Blades/Slash. That is true. SB also got stun in axe and sword line, which wasnormally a after block combo. You can argue about already having a Stun in LA line, but this helps to go Critblade. Especially at the beginning there were a lot of Critblades around.

Also it has been said, that NS/Ranger have easy side stun. Which is the same length has the evade from Blades on NS/Ranger. So with this Argument about side stun being "free" neglects the bonus of having a new evade stun in Blades. You can't really call that a big buff or advantage in my opinion.

SB are in a disadvantage vs. Blade Ranger/NS, a little vs Slash Inf. Not at all vs Thrust Inf or pierce NS/Ranger. So it basically is just a paper rock scissor thing.

You can find it what you want. I think it is fine. I never found myself as a SB in an hopeless/outmatched fight were I got destroyed. This game also isn't about 1v1. And even as an Assassin, most of my fights are vs visibles

To note something too. This patch is after the LA nerf from 1.62. LA styles have been mostly nerfed, while the chain from behind has been buffed. The level 50 style has been giving a Cold proc. Which at the time, was only available for Berserker. On this server, SB have it too. The cold proc does 100-130 damage + the higher damage from the styles.

SB have been giving enough stuff on this server too, that they did not have.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:03 AM by Riac
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump till answer (pg 20)

so now i have to get a 3 chain backstyle off on someone w/o having an off evade stun or them evading me or missing w/e ( and pigeon holed into speccing 50 la) to get comp dmg. garbage.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:07 AM by RioterControl
This thread is stupid. Enter my drunken post while wife sleepss....

Serisouly though...SBs though weaker up front are fine. Fine for the people that put forth the effort to maximize their char potential.

My motivation is skewed a bit though...i often w ant to try the "gimped' weakest char and see how it really performs. I have not played a NB but over live and the various shards i have played INFs and NBs to rr10+...I dont remember the details since it has been 3-4 years of actually meta gaming...but as an inf i FEARed a well played RR6+ SB more than NS and then as a SB I "feared" NS with avoid pain or viper up...nothing else.

This is all anecdotal but so far this server does not seem to be that diffent.

I loe playing original shadowblade... i really dont want to play them stroner than what they are now. Purely personal opinion but if any advantage was added to the current SB i would not really be interested in playing.

They are weaker up front but if this server holds true to the mechanics of old...SBs at high RR are the dominant assassin. Especially with avoid pain on NSs being gone. I woul d only di eto NSs with aviod pain or viper upaaaas higer rr SB andnthat should hold true here,
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:14 AM by Mauriac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:50 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:36 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:32 AM
Bad ones, the good ones work me over, Inchai and Haduri might be able to give you some tips. Change armor I don't care, I'll still pummel bad SBs, well, at least when their vanish is down.

Yes Inchai and Haduri are good. Theyre also both RR7 and you're RR4 so no kidding they work you over. I also work over RR3 and RR2 friars, the RR4 and higher ones tear me apart.

Hopefully you're not making the mistake of confusing "good" with Realm Rank. As I said both Inchai and Haduri are good SBs, theyre also high RR. There are also plenty of people playing sneaks who are RR3 and 4 and are good players. Also plenty who are RR5+ and not very good. Just putting that one out there.

When I played my shade I had to completely change how control the toon, at first I was a bumbling nub and actually had to practice but I wanted to be able to PA other stealths. PA'n another sin is tough but I can still land them, PAn an archer is easy. One con is I react without thinking and have PAd a few people coming up behind me leading full groups, eh, w/e, still landed it. My point is, you get 125 units on me and when that fight started, I hit you first on my shade I would have landed PA. You don't keyboard turn or something do you?

no dude, i don't keyboard turn. i have /face and /stick bound on mouse buttons to allow for rapid turning if i see someone in stealth close to me along with PA hot keyed to Q so its fast to hit. and yes, PAing an archer is easier than PAing another assassin because of the detection range. However, you were looking for me because I had just killed a couple casters so you were moving and turning to make it challenging to land that PA and you succeeded in not eating one. also helps that I play on cable in puerto rico which isn't exactly stellar for my ping but i manage. i was giving you props but your last couple posts have jumped to some really odd assumptions / conclusions and it's starting to make me wonder. i posted some screenshots of the fight and you've gone off on tangents about how i play my toon or whether or not i keyboard turn, things that you can't tell from a string of numbers. eventually i'll release my video of my SB and you can decide for yourself whether or not I'm any good. just kinda odd to start throwing things out there without anyway of proving/disproving them.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:16 AM by Mauriac
RioterControl wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:07 AM
This thread is stupid. Enter my drunken post while wife sleepss....

Serisouly though...SBs though weaker up front are fine. Fine for the people that put forth the effort to maximize their char potential.

My motivation is skewed a bit though...i often w ant to try the "gimped' weakest char and see how it really performs. I have not played a NB but over live and the various shards i have played INFs and NBs to rr10+...I dont remember the details since it has been 3-4 years of actually meta gaming...but as an inf i FEARed a well played RR6+ SB more than NS and then as a SB I "feared" NS with avoid pain or viper up...nothing else.

This is all anecdotal but so far this server does not seem to be that diffent.

I loe playing original shadowblade... i really dont want to play them stroner than what they are now. Purely personal opinion but if any advantage was added to the current SB i would not really be interested in playing.

They are weaker up front but if this server holds true to the mechanics of old...SBs at high RR are the dominant assassin. Especially with avoid pain on NSs being gone. I woul d only di eto NSs with aviod pain or viper upaaaas higer rr SB andnthat should hold true here,

this server doesn't hold true to the mechanics of old.

[attachment=0]invalid.jpg[/attachment]
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:21 AM by dbeattie71
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:14 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:50 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:36 AM
Yes Inchai and Haduri are good. Theyre also both RR7 and you're RR4 so no kidding they work you over. I also work over RR3 and RR2 friars, the RR4 and higher ones tear me apart.

Hopefully you're not making the mistake of confusing "good" with Realm Rank. As I said both Inchai and Haduri are good SBs, theyre also high RR. There are also plenty of people playing sneaks who are RR3 and 4 and are good players. Also plenty who are RR5+ and not very good. Just putting that one out there.

When I played my shade I had to completely change how control the toon, at first I was a bumbling nub and actually had to practice but I wanted to be able to PA other stealths. PA'n another sin is tough but I can still land them, PAn an archer is easy. One con is I react without thinking and have PAd a few people coming up behind me leading full groups, eh, w/e, still landed it. My point is, you get 125 units on me and when that fight started, I hit you first on my shade I would have landed PA. You don't keyboard turn or something do you?

no dude, i don't keyboard turn. i have /face and /stick bound on mouse buttons to allow for rapid turning if i see someone in stealth close to me along with PA hot keyed to Q so its fast to hit. and yes, PAing an archer is easier than PAing another assassin because of the detection range. However, you were looking for me because I had just killed a couple casters so you were moving and turning to make it challenging to land that PA and you succeeded in not eating one. also helps that I play on cable in puerto rico which isn't exactly stellar for my ping but i manage. i was giving you props but your last couple posts have jumped to some really asinine assumptions / conclusions and it's starting to make me wonder. i posted some screenshots of the fight and you've gone off on tangents about how i play my toon or whether or not i keyboard turn, things that you can't tell from a string of numbers. feel free to make all the assumptions you want. eventually i'll release my video of my SB and you can decide for yourself whether or not I'm any good. just kinda dumb to start throwing things out there without anyway of proving/disproving them.

/shrug, I use to kb turn and switched everything up. /stick and /face on mouse buttons is slower imo but thats me. Also, I never /stick to PA, bad stuff happens. But I'll keep what works for me to myself from now on. Will the video have the fights where you vanish?
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:22 AM by Riac
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

arguing about whether /stick or pa buttons on your mouse is irrelevant... have you seen the dmg spread in these screenshots?
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:29 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:22 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

arguing about whether /stick or pa buttons on your mouse is irrelevant... have you seen the dmg spread in these screenshots?

Yeah, beast mode. So, why can’t I hit other SBs that hard? Like Lykteman and the others I mentioned?
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:32 AM by Riac
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump till answer (pg 20)

depends on what you mean. how hard are you hitting them for? are you more towards the sbs dmg or the rangers damage? without knowing how hard you are hitting for its hard to tell.... im assuming you are blades and using a s/c charge / cf, id be willing to bet that you are hitting more twds the rangers dmg in this instance, give some ss and we shall see.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:32 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump till answer (pg 20)

depends on what you mean. how hard are you hitting them for? are you more towards the sbs dmg or the rangers damage? without knowing how hard you are hitting for its hard to tell.... im assuming you are blades and using a s/c charge / cf, id be willing to bet that you are hitting more twds the rangers dmg in this instance, give some ss and we shall see.

I guess that was rhetorical, I don’t take screens or make videos. I’d be asking those SBs though if it was me.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:39 AM by jelzinga_EU
Saroi wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 5:58 AM
SB are in a disadvantage vs. Blade Ranger/NS, a little vs Slash Inf. Not at all vs Thrust Inf or pierce NS/Ranger. So it basically is just a paper rock scissor thing.

The problem with analogies is that they often fail horribly. It is just pick like paper-rock-scissor except you know the SB can only pick paper. Don't pick scissors and you win...
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:42 AM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:32 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump till answer (pg 20)

depends on what you mean. how hard are you hitting them for? are you more towards the sbs dmg or the rangers damage? without knowing how hard you are hitting for its hard to tell.... im assuming you are blades and using a s/c charge / cf, id be willing to bet that you are hitting more twds the rangers dmg in this instance, give some ss and we shall see.

I guess that was rhetorical, I don’t take screens or make videos. I’d be asking those SBs though if it was me.

mauriac is a reputable sb and has provided ss, youre some random person that refuses to provide evidence. i think you can assume why your opinion is thrown out w/ a grain of salt.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" -Christopher Hitchens
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:50 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:42 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:32 AM
bump till answer (pg 20)

depends on what you mean. how hard are you hitting them for? are you more towards the sbs dmg or the rangers damage? without knowing how hard you are hitting for its hard to tell.... im assuming you are blades and using a s/c charge / cf, id be willing to bet that you are hitting more twds the rangers dmg in this instance, give some ss and we shall see.

I guess that was rhetorical, I don’t take screens or make videos. I’d be asking those SBs though if it was me.

mauriac is a reputable sb and has provided ss, youre some random person that refuses to provide evidence. i think you can assume why your opinion is thrown out w/ a grain of salt.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" -Christopher Hitchens

Huh, evidence of what? I listed the names of 3 SBs that easily beat me. Go fn ask them how, I don’t know. I have over 1800 hits and he chewed through them all including a insta heal and legion heart. And he didn’t land PA or BS. I know it’s impossible that they’re better players than the ones getting destroyed so let’s find another reason. Jfc, I fight win or lose and move on and try and find ways to get better.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:55 AM by Riac
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump till answer (pg 20)

considering im using an AF charge just as good as the one they are using id say youre hitting for the same amount. their leather armor is the same and their af charge is the same.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:00 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:55 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump till answer (pg 20)

considering im using an AF charge just as good as the one they are using id say youre hitting for the same amount. their leather armor is the same and their af charge is the same.

Yet I lose, weird. You could ask them but I guess it’s easier to hold your breath until you get what you want. I literally gave you 3 resources you can go ask. The one dude put out about 2k of damage on MP reinforced armor. Yeah let’s buff SBs lmao.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:05 AM by Riac
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

considering mauriac produced screenshots and you have not (and you refuse too lol), peraphs you should ask barbaz how to stomp on those 3 people. considering all you have to do is line up an evade stun with an anytime and get +20% dmg its most likely not going to be too tricky.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:09 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:05 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

considering mauriac produced screenshots and you have not (and you refuse too lol), peraphs you should ask barbaz how to stomp on those 3 people. considering all you have to do is line up an evade stun with an anytime and get +20% dmg its most likely not going to be too tricky.

Refuse? Do you have a time machine I can borrow to go back in time with and take pics of a fight I had 2 hours ago that someone wants pics of that at the time I didn’t know they wanted pics of? J F C people are dumb.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:09 AM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:32 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump till answer (pg 20)

depends on what you mean. how hard are you hitting them for? are you more towards the sbs dmg or the rangers damage? without knowing how hard you are hitting for its hard to tell.... im assuming you are blades and using a s/c charge / cf, id be willing to bet that you are hitting more twds the rangers dmg in this instance, give some ss and we shall see.

I guess that was rhetorical, I don’t take screens or make videos. I’d be asking those SBs though if it was me.

^refusal
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:11 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:09 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:32 AM
bump till answer (pg 20)

depends on what you mean. how hard are you hitting them for? are you more towards the sbs dmg or the rangers damage? without knowing how hard you are hitting for its hard to tell.... im assuming you are blades and using a s/c charge / cf, id be willing to bet that you are hitting more twds the rangers dmg in this instance, give some ss and we shall see.

I guess that was rhetorical, I don’t take screens or make videos. I’d be asking those SBs though if it was me.

^refusal

Lmao.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:12 AM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:11 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:09 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 6:38 AM
I guess that was rhetorical, I don’t take screens or make videos. I’d be asking those SBs though if it was me.

^refusal

Lmao.
Refuse? Do you have a time machine I can borrow to go back in time with and take pics of a fight I had 2 hours ago that someone wants pics of that at the time I didn’t know they wanted pics of? J F C people are dumb

jfc youre dumb
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:16 AM by dbeattie71
You got me, I refuse to post pics I don’t have nor exist. I don’t even look at logs lol, I have the window shrunk down.

“its not that i'm lazy bob its that i just don't care”
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:17 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:12 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:11 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:09 AM
^refusal

Lmao.
Refuse? Do you have a time machine I can borrow to go back in time with and take pics of a fight I had 2 hours ago that someone wants pics of that at the time I didn’t know they wanted pics of? J F C people are dumb

jfc youre dumb

Because I don’t take pics of fights? Yeah, I’m the dumb one lol. Let me guess another SB that got rolled by a nub.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:18 AM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:16 AM
You got me, I refuse to post pics I don’t have nor exist. I don’t even look at logs lol, I have the window shrunk down.

“its not that i'm lazy bob its that i just don't care”

since you dont care it would be fair to say you have no idea what is going on when the numbers are inspected in a more in depth manner? considering youre only losing to three sbs while not making any attempts to min max or pay attention to how the fights are playing out is a bit telling imo.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:22 AM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:17 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:12 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:11 AM
Lmao.
Refuse? Do you have a time machine I can borrow to go back in time with and take pics of a fight I had 2 hours ago that someone wants pics of that at the time I didn’t know they wanted pics of? J F C people are dumb

jfc youre dumb

Because I don’t take pics of fights? Yeah, I’m the dumb one lol. Let me guess another SB that got rolled by a nub.

you saying you didnt know ppl would want proof that you arent hitting these sbs as hard while coming on here and talking shit is what makes you dumb, not even mentioning the obv contradictions in your own quotes.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:29 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:18 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:16 AM
You got me, I refuse to post pics I don’t have nor exist. I don’t even look at logs lol, I have the window shrunk down.

“its not that i'm lazy bob its that i just don't care”

since you dont care it would be fair to say you have no idea what is going on when the numbers are inspected in a more in depth manner? considering youre only losing to three sbs while not making any attempts to min max or pay attention to how the fights are playing out is a bit telling imo.

I write software for a living and the last thing I want to do is analyze fn logs for a fight in a game when I get home. I made a Shar Ranger with +15 str and +10 con. It has purge 3, aug str, aug con, and toughness. Armor is all MP with epic Ablative procs and Galla BP with heal proc. Weapons are both MP with a dot and dmg proc. I destroy some SBs and Infs and I get destroyed by some SBs and Infs.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:32 AM by Riac
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

bump till answer (pg 20)

well if youre not willing to live up to the level of proof necessary and only provide anecdotes perhaps you should just stay out of it. reputable sb provides ss and you just provide anecdotes, if you dont understand why one is worth less than the other idk what to tell you.

considering all sbs have the same armor and the same af charge idk why you would hit one more than the other. if you really write software for a living youre a smart person. those are the only things that effect how much dmg a char is going to take (esp since dmg is normalized) i feel like youre being a bit disingenuous, to say the least.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:36 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:22 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:17 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:12 AM
jfc youre dumb

Because I don’t take pics of fights? Yeah, I’m the dumb one lol. Let me guess another SB that got rolled by a nub.

you saying you didnt know ppl would want proof that you arent hitting these sbs as hard while coming on here and talking shit is what makes you dumb, not even mentioning the obv contradictions in your own quotes.

Yeah, I’m saying I did not know that people would want a screen shot as proof that I’m not hitting the Shadowblades I beat as hard as the Shadowblades I lose to.

Any more questions Mr. Holmes?
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:37 AM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:36 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:22 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:17 AM
Because I don’t take pics of fights? Yeah, I’m the dumb one lol. Let me guess another SB that got rolled by a nub.

you saying you didnt know ppl would want proof that you arent hitting these sbs as hard while coming on here and talking shit is what makes you dumb, not even mentioning the obv contradictions in your own quotes.

Yeah, I’m saying I did not know that people would want a screen shot as proof that I’m not hitting the Shadowblades I beat as hard as the Shadowblades I lose to.

Any more questions Mr. Holmes?

well now you know ppl are going to want some evidence to back up the shit youve talked. ... crazy, right??? you write software for a living, youre a smart person. to assume ppl arent going to want proof of your anecdotes to be taken seriously is just disingenuous.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:45 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:37 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:36 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:22 AM
you saying you didnt know ppl would want proof that you arent hitting these sbs as hard while coming on here and talking shit is what makes you dumb, not even mentioning the obv contradictions in your own quotes.

Yeah, I’m saying I did not know that people would want a screen shot as proof that I’m not hitting the Shadowblades I beat as hard as the Shadowblades I lose to.

Any more questions Mr. Holmes?

well now you know ppl are going to want some evidence to back up the shit youve talked. ... crazy, right??? you write software for a living, youre a smart person. to assume ppl arent going to want proof of your anecdotes to be taken seriously is just disingenuous.

Ok, from now on I’ll take screens of the fights I lose to SBs to back up the shit I’ve talked. Seems backwards but okay.
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:47 AM by Riac
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

considering mauriac has gone through the trouble (as well as a number of other sbs) to provide evidence of a problem and you just brush it off as bullshit, i dont think you providing your own ss is too much to ask.... and if it is too much to ask of you then perhaps you should just stay out of it all together. especially considering you dont care anyways....
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:48 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:47 AM
Mauriac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 4:58 AM
for those asking about my SS here are a couple from a fight i had with an RR4 shar blade ranger.

First part i'm going through my rotation and he purges all poisons (ws/con, disease, lifebane, lethargy, TG proc). Then he freight trains me.

part 1.jpg

I reapply ws/con debuff and he still hits like a truck.

part 2.jpg

As you can see my damage is pretty rough comparatively despite running s/c, d/q and af charges + combined forces.

edit: not sure why it double posts the images but w/e.

considering mauriac has gone through the trouble (as well as a number of other sbs) to provide evidence of a problem and you just brush it off as bullshit, i dont think you providing your own ss is too much to ask.... and if it is too much to ask of you then perhaps you should just stay out of it all together.

I’ll happily stay out of this BS whine fest. Good luck on getting your way.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:55 AM by gian
BUMP!

still unresolved!
Thu 4 Apr 2019 12:36 PM by qq6
What are we trying to resolve i got lost in all of the finger pointing between threads.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:18 PM by Jodocus_Quak
I think SBs with LA are fine. I have been playing my SB with 44 LA from the beginning. 10 + in CS is only for backstab. The dmg of backstab is not important, but the 3 sec stun, which gives me time to execute the backstyle chain from LA: Snowsquall, icy brilliance and now with RR 5 and 50 LA aurora borealis. How do I get backstab off? By letting the vicitm run through me and sticking for quick turn. The backstyle chain usually hits for 140-190 (aurora borealis between 180-190 if it lands, which happens quite a lot). After evade comback hit Hanma (RR6 infiltrator) yesterday with 179. I play around LA and not CS.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:24 PM by Peister
Jodocus_Quak wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:18 PM
I think SBs with LA are fine. I have been playing my SB with 44 LA from the beginning. 10 + in CS is only for backstab. The dmg of backstab is not important, but the 3 sec stun, which gives me time to execute the backstyle chain from LA: Snowsquall, icy brilliance and now with RR 5 and 50 LA aurora borealis. How do I get backstab off? By letting the vicitm run through me and sticking for quick turn. The backstyle chain usually hits for 140-190 (aurora borealis between 180-190 if it lands, which happens quite a lot). After evade comback hit Hanma (RR6 infiltrator) yesterday with 179. I play around LA and not CS.

Finally a SB with a brain 😂
Thu 4 Apr 2019 3:07 PM by dbeattie71
Jodocus_Quak wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:18 PM
I think SBs with LA are fine. I have been playing my SB with 44 LA from the beginning. 10 + in CS is only for backstab. The dmg of backstab is not important, but the 3 sec stun, which gives me time to execute the backstyle chain from LA: Snowsquall, icy brilliance and now with RR 5 and 50 LA aurora borealis. How do I get backstab off? By letting the vicitm run through me and sticking for quick turn. The backstyle chain usually hits for 140-190 (aurora borealis between 180-190 if it lands, which happens quite a lot). After evade comback hit Hanma (RR6 infiltrator) yesterday with 179. I play around LA and not CS.

Heres is another SB that usually beats me down.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 3:16 PM by dbeattie71
I have to say, win or lose, the cat and mouse game with the good SBs is a lot of fun. Sometimes more fun than the fighting. I don’t know what the good ones are doing different than the squishy ones but they’re tough, patient, and crafty.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:13 PM by Bumbles
The shitty ones who complain on this post are spamming anytimes and wondering why their damage is gimp.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:16 PM by Riac
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:13 PM
The shitty ones who complain on this post are spamming anytimes and wondering why their damage is gimp.

Useless generalization once again. Ty for your worthless input. Hopefully your family isn't as dismayed as the ppl on this thread everytime you open your mouth.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:42 PM by Bumbles
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:16 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:13 PM
The shitty ones who complain on this post are spamming anytimes and wondering why their damage is gimp.

Useless generalization once again. Ty for your worthless input. Hopefully your family isn't as dismayed as the ppl on this thread everytime you open your mouth.

Cry more about how your class is broken, while the real SBs are out getting RRs. Your tears are adorable.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:00 PM by Riac
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:42 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:16 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:13 PM
The shitty ones who complain on this post are spamming anytimes and wondering why their damage is gimp.

Useless generalization once again. Ty for your worthless input. Hopefully your family isn't as dismayed as the ppl on this thread everytime you open your mouth.

Cry more about how your class is broken, while the real SBs are out getting RRs. Your tears are adorable.

And your comments are worthless
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:18 PM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:00 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:42 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:16 PM
Useless generalization once again. Ty for your worthless input. Hopefully your family isn't as dismayed as the ppl on this thread everytime you open your mouth.

Cry more about how your class is broken, while the real SBs are out getting RRs. Your tears are adorable.

And your comments are worthless

Instead of doubting the SBs that do well, why don't you ask them how they're doing what they do? Heres hits hard, so does Haduri. They're SBs where I know I need all my RAs to have a chance and then there are the ones, you figure out which ones, where I don't have to worry about purge being down etc. I have to figure out which way they're gonna go when they vanish.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:43 PM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:18 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:00 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:42 PM
Cry more about how your class is broken, while the real SBs are out getting RRs. Your tears are adorable.

And your comments are worthless

Instead of doubting the SBs that do well, why don't you ask them how they're doing what they do? Heres hits hard, so does Haduri. They're SBs where I know I need all my RAs to have a chance and then there are the ones, you figure out which ones, where I don't have to worry about purge being down etc. I have to figure out which way they're gonna go when they vanish.

I think the fact that there are a select few that hit hard and yet all ns or blade rangers hit hard while spamming anytimes is telling in itself. 20% dmg spread is too much. No other stealther has to deal with this.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:57 PM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:43 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:18 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:00 PM
And your comments are worthless

Instead of doubting the SBs that do well, why don't you ask them how they're doing what they do? Heres hits hard, so does Haduri. They're SBs where I know I need all my RAs to have a chance and then there are the ones, you figure out which ones, where I don't have to worry about purge being down etc. I have to figure out which way they're gonna go when they vanish.

I think the fact that there are a select few that hit hard and yet all ns or blade rangers hit hard while spamming anytimes is telling in itself. 20% dmg spread is too much. No other stealther has to deal with this.

Don't you want to know why? I would. Heres is 5L2 so the argument that only the high RR SBs can do it is invalid.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:59 PM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:57 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:43 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:18 PM
Instead of doubting the SBs that do well, why don't you ask them how they're doing what they do? Heres hits hard, so does Haduri. They're SBs where I know I need all my RAs to have a chance and then there are the ones, you figure out which ones, where I don't have to worry about purge being down etc. I have to figure out which way they're gonna go when they vanish.

I think the fact that there are a select few that hit hard and yet all ns or blade rangers hit hard while spamming anytimes is telling in itself. 20% dmg spread is too much. No other stealther has to deal with this.

Don't you want to know why? I would. Heres is 5L2 so the argument that only the high RR SBs can do it is invalid.

Not the arguement I'm making nor has it ever been. And it's nothing more than the stuff Mauriac mentioned in this thread 2 pages ago.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:12 PM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:59 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:57 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:43 PM
I think the fact that there are a select few that hit hard and yet all ns or blade rangers hit hard while spamming anytimes is telling in itself. 20% dmg spread is too much. No other stealther has to deal with this.

Don't you want to know why? I would. Heres is 5L2 so the argument that only the high RR SBs can do it is invalid.

Not the arguement I'm making nor has it ever been. And it's nothing more than the stuff Mauriac mentioned in this thread 2 pages ago.

Then it isn't a very good argument, if the good SBs are on par with shades and Sbs get buffed because the noob ones make 50 page threads, the good ones will be monsters.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:16 PM by Bumbles
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:00 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:42 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:16 PM
Useless generalization once again. Ty for your worthless input. Hopefully your family isn't as dismayed as the ppl on this thread everytime you open your mouth.

Cry more about how your class is broken, while the real SBs are out getting RRs. Your tears are adorable.

And your comments are worthless

Why do so many good people die of Cancer everyday yet you still are lucking around in a basement someplace?
Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:20 PM by Riac
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:16 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:00 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 9:42 PM
Cry more about how your class is broken, while the real SBs are out getting RRs. Your tears are adorable.

And your comments are worthless

Why do so many good people die of Cancer everyday yet you still are lucking around in a basement someplace?

With any luck you'll be among those unfortunate good ppl.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:32 PM by Bumbles
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:20 PM
Bumbles wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:16 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:00 PM
And your comments are worthless

Why do so many good people die of Cancer everyday yet you still are lucking around in a basement someplace?

With any luck you'll be among those unfortunate good ppl.

One can only hope, but at least I won't be crying about why my SB doesn't do the damage that NS/Rangers do.
Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:40 PM by Riac
all of this assuming equal rr and buffs.

SB vs Pierce Inf
SB: neutral dmg, ok for me
Pierce Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Bad matchup overall for the Inf but thats ok. Only a 10% spread on dmg, nothing crazy.

SB vs Slash Inf
SB: neutral dmg, ok for me
Slash inf: +10% dmg, good for him
Bad matchup overall for me but thats ok. Only a 10% dmg spread, nothing crazy.

SB vs Pierce NS
pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
SB: -10% dmg, bad for me
Overall its a wash.

SB vs Blade NS
Blade NS: +10% dmg good for him
SB: -10% dmg bad for me
Absurd matchup. 20% dmg spread, this is what all the complaining is about.

Pierce NS vs Pierce Inf
Pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
Pierce Inf: nuetral dmg, ok for him
Bad matchup overall for the NS buts its ok. only a 10% dmg spread.

Pierce NS vs Slash Inf
pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
Slash Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Overall its a wash.

Blade NS vs Slash Inf
Blade NS: neutral dmg, ok for him
Slash Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Bad matchup over all for the Inf but its ok. Only a 10% dmg spread, nothing crazy.

as you can see the only matchup with a 20% dmg spread is the blade NS vs SB.... the only one, this is what all the threads and complaining is about.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 12:56 AM by Cadebrennus
dbeattie71 wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:12 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:59 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:57 PM
Don't you want to know why? I would. Heres is 5L2 so the argument that only the high RR SBs can do it is invalid.

Not the arguement I'm making nor has it ever been. And it's nothing more than the stuff Mauriac mentioned in this thread 2 pages ago.

Then it isn't a very good argument, if the good SBs are on par with shades and Sbs get buffed because the noob ones make 50 page threads, the good ones will be monsters.

Fri 5 Apr 2019 1:04 AM by Riac
Riac wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:40 PM
all of this assuming equal rr and buffs.

SB vs Pierce Inf
SB: neutral dmg, ok for me
Pierce Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Bad matchup overall for the Inf but thats ok. Only a 10% spread on dmg, nothing crazy.

SB vs Slash Inf
SB: neutral dmg, ok for me
Slash inf: +10% dmg, good for him
Bad matchup overall for me but thats ok. Only a 10% dmg spread, nothing crazy.

SB vs Pierce NS
pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
SB: -10% dmg, bad for me
Overall its a wash.

SB vs Blade NS
Blade NS: +10% dmg good for him
SB: -10% dmg bad for me
Absurd matchup. 20% dmg spread, this is what all the complaining is about.

Pierce NS vs Pierce Inf
Pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
Pierce Inf: nuetral dmg, ok for him
Bad matchup overall for the NS buts its ok. only a 10% dmg spread.

Pierce NS vs Slash Inf
pierce NS: -10% dmg, bad for him
Slash Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Overall its a wash.

Blade NS vs Slash Inf
Blade NS: neutral dmg, ok for him
Slash Inf: -10% dmg, bad for him
Bad matchup over all for the Inf but its ok. Only a 10% dmg spread, nothing crazy.

as you can see the only matchup with a 20% dmg spread is the blade NS vs SB.... the only one, this is what all the threads and complaining is about.

this is my argument.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:30 AM by ughsmash
Jodocus_Quak wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:18 PM
I think SBs with LA are fine. I have been playing my SB with 44 LA from the beginning. 10 + in CS is only for backstab. The dmg of backstab is not important, but the 3 sec stun, which gives me time to execute the backstyle chain from LA: Snowsquall, icy brilliance and now with RR 5 and 50 LA aurora borealis. How do I get backstab off? By letting the vicitm run through me and sticking for quick turn. The backstyle chain usually hits for 140-190 (aurora borealis between 180-190 if it lands, which happens quite a lot). After evade comback hit Hanma (RR6 infiltrator) yesterday with 179. I play around LA and not CS.

This is a great example of what is right with DAoC. Even with a disadvantage you can win a fight because there are a large number of combat rolls going off. Anyone can have a great fight and beat someone who seems to get evaded or miss key attacks.

Also the above example is a good scenario. I would venture to say most Assassins while in stealth aren't going to completely run through someone and let them get a backstab off before they have hit the person, so I can assume the scenario presented is an Assassin running out of stealth and you ambushed them. The perfect scenario. Most people should be winning this even with a 20 percent disadvantage, as an Assassin our opener is the most important part of combat.

If you do the simple math on what 20 percent more damage based off of resist tables means, it means that if I kill a Nightshade in 5 hits they can kill me in 4 hits. Roll the dice enough or give me the opener, and I have beaten the spread. But if you look at a large sample size, you will see the equality of the characters is not good at all.

I honestly don't think its so terrible that we couldn't survive without a change. I am saying a bump or an equalization in some way would be nice and more healthy for the server.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:02 AM by Riac
ughsmash wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:30 AM
Jodocus_Quak wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:18 PM
I think SBs with LA are fine. I have been playing my SB with 44 LA from the beginning. 10 + in CS is only for backstab. The dmg of backstab is not important, but the 3 sec stun, which gives me time to execute the backstyle chain from LA: Snowsquall, icy brilliance and now with RR 5 and 50 LA aurora borealis. How do I get backstab off? By letting the vicitm run through me and sticking for quick turn. The backstyle chain usually hits for 140-190 (aurora borealis between 180-190 if it lands, which happens quite a lot). After evade comback hit Hanma (RR6 infiltrator) yesterday with 179. I play around LA and not CS.

This is a great example of what is right with DAoC. Even with a disadvantage you can win a fight because there are a large number of combat rolls going off. Anyone can have a great fight and beat someone who seems to get evaded or miss key attacks.

Also the above example is a good scenario. I would venture to say most Assassins while in stealth aren't going to completely run through someone and let them get a backstab off before they have hit the person, so I can assume the scenario presented is an Assassin running out of stealth and you ambushed them. The perfect scenario. Most people should be winning this even with a 20 percent disadvantage, as an Assassin our opener is the most important part of combat.

If you do the simple math on what 20 percent more damage based off of resist tables means, it means that if I kill a Nightshade in 5 hits they can kill me in 4 hits. Roll the dice enough or give me the opener, and I have beaten the spread. But if you look at a large sample size, you will see the equality of the characters is not good at all.

I honestly don't think its so terrible that we couldn't survive without a change. I am saying a bump or an equalization in some way would be nice and more healthy for the server.

yea the ole run through backstab works perfectly on visibles, but its not gonna work against 2 stealthers walking at each oother in stealth.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:36 AM by Cadebrennus
http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?160659-LA-Mechanics


"...It�s interesting, and perhaps unexpected for some people, to notice that while the mainhand damage of a LA user is often considerably lower than that of a CD/DW user when styling, the fact that the offhand hits 100% of the time makes up for this perfectly over time.� In small quantities, as before, LA may perform in a superior or inferior manner to CD/DW, depending on the luck of the offhand swing � over time, that key critical component, however, all is balanced."


"...For the first time in any of our tests, we finally start to see Left Axe outdamage both Celtic Dual and Dual Wield.� While CD/DW do more damage from the mainhand on average unhasted, when counting the haste effect, this damage is actually less in the long run � the reliable haste on every swing allows a LA user to very slightly boost his DPS over that of a CD/DW user, as long as melee styles are used during this time.� Note, of course, that the actual amount this DPS varies will increase when the speed difference between the two weapons is larger, while it will decrease when the speed difference is smaller."

"...This document was written by Peter Waterman (aka Squawking Tiger or watermnp on the Pendragon boards).� This document would not exist without the extremely detailed research and discovery performed by Jay Ambrosini (aka Wyrd) on style calculations.� Equal thanks go to Niin and Kaber for some of the heavy work into proving how the current CD/DW formulas work originally, and to Melal/morphene for pinning down the formula for Left Axe.� I can�t even begin to list all the testers who spent hours and hours of their time beating on people and doors for the thousands of attacks done to verify the accuracy of the CD/DW formulas."
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:48 AM by ughsmash
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:36 AM
http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?160659-LA-Mechanics


"...It�s interesting, and perhaps unexpected for some people, to notice that while the mainhand damage of a LA user is often considerably lower than that of a CD/DW user when styling, the fact that the offhand hits 100% of the time makes up for this perfectly over time.� In small quantities, as before, LA may perform in a superior or inferior manner to CD/DW, depending on the luck of the offhand swing � over time, that key critical component, however, all is balanced."


"...For the first time in any of our tests, we finally start to see Left Axe outdamage both Celtic Dual and Dual Wield.� While CD/DW do more damage from the mainhand on average unhasted, when counting the haste effect, this damage is actually less in the long run � the reliable haste on every swing allows a LA user to very slightly boost his DPS over that of a CD/DW user, as long as melee styles are used during this time.� Note, of course, that the actual amount this DPS varies will increase when the speed difference between the two weapons is larger, while it will decrease when the speed difference is smaller."

"...This document was written by Peter Waterman (aka Squawking Tiger or watermnp on the Pendragon boards).� This document would not exist without the extremely detailed research and discovery performed by Jay Ambrosini (aka Wyrd) on style calculations.� Equal thanks go to Niin and Kaber for some of the heavy work into proving how the current CD/DW formulas work originally, and to Melal/morphene for pinning down the formula for Left Axe.� I can�t even begin to list all the testers who spent hours and hours of their time beating on people and doors for the thousands of attacks done to verify the accuracy of the CD/DW formulas."

I feel like we are going to go in a circle here, but heck why not. Also keep in mind you are taking a post from a different server and this server has its own damage numbers which are made to be close to the original, but they are not the original.

gruenesschafs post:
Quote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal opinion:

The matchup between the 3 assassins is obviously not fair. You basically have the SB higher hp vs ns magic vs inf higher spec points, then you have the mechanic difference / slight LA advantage which is pretty much entirely negated by damage shield. Then it's the possible damage types vs armor types where hib has the advantage as they can get + against sb/hunter and neutral against alb while sb is forced to have a malus against ns and neutral against alb with alb having the choice of malus against hib and bonus against mid or malus against mid and neutral against hib and finally no 1st reactionary stun for the sb.

As for the suggested blunt ability, I'm not really sure if basically adding banespike to SB is the right choice. Legendary weapons would be a great solution for this, however not class restricting them would affect normal group play.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Quote

As you can see swinging an offhand for low damage will hurt you a lot when you take Strong Elixir of Shard Skin into consideration. You are actually killing yourself faster... The damage gain from main-hand is directly countered by the fact the offhand A) hits weak and if using a fast offhand for haste effect B) Hits you back.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:51 AM by Cadebrennus
ughsmash wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:48 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:36 AM
http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?160659-LA-Mechanics


"...It�s interesting, and perhaps unexpected for some people, to notice that while the mainhand damage of a LA user is often considerably lower than that of a CD/DW user when styling, the fact that the offhand hits 100% of the time makes up for this perfectly over time.� In small quantities, as before, LA may perform in a superior or inferior manner to CD/DW, depending on the luck of the offhand swing � over time, that key critical component, however, all is balanced."


"...For the first time in any of our tests, we finally start to see Left Axe outdamage both Celtic Dual and Dual Wield.� While CD/DW do more damage from the mainhand on average unhasted, when counting the haste effect, this damage is actually less in the long run � the reliable haste on every swing allows a LA user to very slightly boost his DPS over that of a CD/DW user, as long as melee styles are used during this time.� Note, of course, that the actual amount this DPS varies will increase when the speed difference between the two weapons is larger, while it will decrease when the speed difference is smaller."

"...This document was written by Peter Waterman (aka Squawking Tiger or watermnp on the Pendragon boards).� This document would not exist without the extremely detailed research and discovery performed by Jay Ambrosini (aka Wyrd) on style calculations.� Equal thanks go to Niin and Kaber for some of the heavy work into proving how the current CD/DW formulas work originally, and to Melal/morphene for pinning down the formula for Left Axe.� I can�t even begin to list all the testers who spent hours and hours of their time beating on people and doors for the thousands of attacks done to verify the accuracy of the CD/DW formulas."

I feel like we are going to go in a circle here, but heck why not. Also keep in mind you are taking a post from a different server and this server has its own damage numbers which are made to be close to the original, but they are not the original.

gruenesschafs post:
Quote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal opinion:

The matchup between the 3 assassins is obviously not fair. You basically have the SB higher hp vs ns magic vs inf higher spec points, then you have the mechanic difference / slight LA advantage which is pretty much entirely negated by damage shield. Then it's the possible damage types vs armor types where hib has the advantage as they can get + against sb/hunter and neutral against alb while sb is forced to have a malus against ns and neutral against alb with alb having the choice of malus against hib and bonus against mid or malus against mid and neutral against hib and finally no 1st reactionary stun for the sb.

As for the suggested blunt ability, I'm not really sure if basically adding banespike to SB is the right choice. Legendary weapons would be a great solution for this, however not class restricting them would affect normal group play.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Quote

As you can see swinging an offhand for low damage will hurt you a lot when you take Strong Elixir of Shard Skin into consideration. You are actually killing yourself faster... The damage gain from main-hand is directly countered by the fact the offhand A) hits weak and if using a fast offhand for haste effect B) Hits you back.

Damage shields were just nerfed.
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7333


While it's true that Gruen and crew did some wonky shit with the physical damage numbers and even did some more wonky shit with dual wielding in general, it's all still based on the original code and data I posted above.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:54 AM by Riac
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:51 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:48 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:36 AM
http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?160659-LA-Mechanics


"...It�s interesting, and perhaps unexpected for some people, to notice that while the mainhand damage of a LA user is often considerably lower than that of a CD/DW user when styling, the fact that the offhand hits 100% of the time makes up for this perfectly over time.� In small quantities, as before, LA may perform in a superior or inferior manner to CD/DW, depending on the luck of the offhand swing � over time, that key critical component, however, all is balanced."


"...For the first time in any of our tests, we finally start to see Left Axe outdamage both Celtic Dual and Dual Wield.� While CD/DW do more damage from the mainhand on average unhasted, when counting the haste effect, this damage is actually less in the long run � the reliable haste on every swing allows a LA user to very slightly boost his DPS over that of a CD/DW user, as long as melee styles are used during this time.� Note, of course, that the actual amount this DPS varies will increase when the speed difference between the two weapons is larger, while it will decrease when the speed difference is smaller."

"...This document was written by Peter Waterman (aka Squawking Tiger or watermnp on the Pendragon boards).� This document would not exist without the extremely detailed research and discovery performed by Jay Ambrosini (aka Wyrd) on style calculations.� Equal thanks go to Niin and Kaber for some of the heavy work into proving how the current CD/DW formulas work originally, and to Melal/morphene for pinning down the formula for Left Axe.� I can�t even begin to list all the testers who spent hours and hours of their time beating on people and doors for the thousands of attacks done to verify the accuracy of the CD/DW formulas."

I feel like we are going to go in a circle here, but heck why not. Also keep in mind you are taking a post from a different server and this server has its own damage numbers which are made to be close to the original, but they are not the original.

gruenesschafs post:
Quote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal opinion:

The matchup between the 3 assassins is obviously not fair. You basically have the SB higher hp vs ns magic vs inf higher spec points, then you have the mechanic difference / slight LA advantage which is pretty much entirely negated by damage shield. Then it's the possible damage types vs armor types where hib has the advantage as they can get + against sb/hunter and neutral against alb while sb is forced to have a malus against ns and neutral against alb with alb having the choice of malus against hib and bonus against mid or malus against mid and neutral against hib and finally no 1st reactionary stun for the sb.

As for the suggested blunt ability, I'm not really sure if basically adding banespike to SB is the right choice. Legendary weapons would be a great solution for this, however not class restricting them would affect normal group play.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Quote

As you can see swinging an offhand for low damage will hurt you a lot when you take Strong Elixir of Shard Skin into consideration. You are actually killing yourself faster... The damage gain from main-hand is directly countered by the fact the offhand A) hits weak and if using a fast offhand for haste effect B) Hits you back.

Damage shields were just nerfed.
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7333


While it's true that Gruen and crew did some wonky shit with the physical damage numbers and even did some more wonky shit with dual wielding in general, it's all still based on the original code and data I posted above.

based on is not the same, especially when it comes to discrete number tests.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:56 AM by Cadebrennus
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:54 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:51 AM
ughsmash wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:48 AM
I feel like we are going to go in a circle here, but heck why not. Also keep in mind you are taking a post from a different server and this server has its own damage numbers which are made to be close to the original, but they are not the original.

gruenesschafs post:
Quote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal opinion:

The matchup between the 3 assassins is obviously not fair. You basically have the SB higher hp vs ns magic vs inf higher spec points, then you have the mechanic difference / slight LA advantage which is pretty much entirely negated by damage shield. Then it's the possible damage types vs armor types where hib has the advantage as they can get + against sb/hunter and neutral against alb while sb is forced to have a malus against ns and neutral against alb with alb having the choice of malus against hib and bonus against mid or malus against mid and neutral against hib and finally no 1st reactionary stun for the sb.

As for the suggested blunt ability, I'm not really sure if basically adding banespike to SB is the right choice. Legendary weapons would be a great solution for this, however not class restricting them would affect normal group play.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Quote

As you can see swinging an offhand for low damage will hurt you a lot when you take Strong Elixir of Shard Skin into consideration. You are actually killing yourself faster... The damage gain from main-hand is directly countered by the fact the offhand A) hits weak and if using a fast offhand for haste effect B) Hits you back.

Damage shields were just nerfed.
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7333


While it's true that Gruen and crew did some wonky shit with the physical damage numbers and even did some more wonky shit with dual wielding in general, it's all still based on the original code and data I posted above.

based on is not the same, especially when it comes to discrete number tests.


My posts = links to actual testing and data that has been verified over several years.


Your posts = "nuh uh!"
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:57 AM by Riac
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:56 AM
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:54 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:51 AM
Damage shields were just nerfed.
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7333


While it's true that Gruen and crew did some wonky shit with the physical damage numbers and even did some more wonky shit with dual wielding in general, it's all still based on the original code and data I posted above.

based on is not the same, especially when it comes to discrete number tests.


My posts = links to actual testing and data that has been verified over several years.


Your posts = "nuh uh!"

testing and data not done on this server... you just admitted they did wonky stuff and then going to claim all these numbers are the same. considering dmg is normalized here is enough to rule out all of the previous testing dont imo. while it may be based on it, it certainly is not the same.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:59 AM by Cadebrennus
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:57 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:56 AM
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:54 AM
based on is not the same, especially when it comes to discrete number tests.


My posts = links to actual testing and data that has been verified over several years.


Your posts = "nuh uh!"

testing and data not done on this server... you just admitted they did wonky stuff and then going to claim all these numbers are the same. considering dmg is normalized here is enough to rule out all of the previous testing dont imo. while it may be based on it, it certainly is not the same.

I'm done with you.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:00 AM by Riac
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:59 AM
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:57 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:56 AM
My posts = links to actual testing and data that has been verified over several years.


Your posts = "nuh uh!"

testing and data not done on this server... you just admitted they did wonky stuff and then going to claim all these numbers are the same. considering dmg is normalized here is enough to rule out all of the previous testing dont imo. while it may be based on it, it certainly is not the same.

I'm done with you.

good.... do you still play here on phoenix?
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:16 AM by dbeattie71
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:00 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:59 AM
Riac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:57 AM
testing and data not done on this server... you just admitted they did wonky stuff and then going to claim all these numbers are the same. considering dmg is normalized here is enough to rule out all of the previous testing dont imo. while it may be based on it, it certainly is not the same.

I'm done with you.

good.... do you still play here on phoenix?

Cad you can’t vanish, only SBs do that 😂
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:40 AM by jelzinga_EU
dbeattie71 wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:12 PM
Then it isn't a very good argument, if the good SBs are on par with shades and Sbs get buffed because the noob ones make 50 page threads, the good ones will be monsters.

Totally depends what buffs they get. If it's a flat-out damage buff you're definitely right - that might cause havoc. Not on NS/Rangers but on other classes. Like you said, I don't need to worry if Purge is down against certain SB's (mostly the CS ones as Hammy-chain is more favourable than Frost Cut) but against a CS-infil you still need to worry about it, especially a Thrust-specced one. He hits you 10% harder and has an instant off-evade stun available.

There are a lot of ways to make SB's more even in match-up against Rangers/NS which has no big impact on how SB's will do against all the other targets and make them roughly equal in performance to how a NS/INF would do in such a fight.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:53 AM by qq6
Damn, the more i read this thread, the more i go wtf are they on about. I cannot speak of how SBs are vs ns, but vs me, an even RR SB kinda poops on me unless i put a couple arrows in and have my cd's, or maybe open first and the sb doesnt have his cd's up. Phixion is a beast, we fight sometimes, and he chops me down pretty bloody well. Lunenoire has been pretty unlucky vs me, but thats cos i find him first lol. At the end of the day, just play the damn game. 29 pages now, and i am still confused as shit here, like 1 screenshot of dmg vs a ranger, and nothing else but cries without any kind of tests.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:32 AM by sabyrtuth
I mean the dmg shield nerf was a LA buff so there's that.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:52 AM by Mauriac
sabyrtuth wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:32 AM
I mean the dmg shield nerf was a LA buff so there's that.

Yeah that's a fair assessment
Fri 5 Apr 2019 8:16 AM by Sepplord
sabyrtuth wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:32 AM
I mean the dmg shield nerf was a LA buff so there's that.

a definitiv buff, i agree
it doesn't turn LA into an advantage though (if i understand it correctly)

LA/DW/CD are on par damage-output wise, according to gruenes

the difference is swing-rate

Higher swing rate = more offensive procs (good) and more defensive procs (bad) and more dmg-shield dmg
the proccs basically cancel each other out (at least that is the tone i have taken from all these threads so far)

which still leaves the dmg shield dmg as downside.

That downside got reduced (Which clearly is a buff) but that doesn't mean the downside is gone
Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:32 PM by djegu
since NS and SB doesn't have the same HP, can we say it's really a 20%spread ? If you want to remove the armor resist, fine but increase the hp for NS, like from 1400 fully buffed to 1750 like sbs, + more str and Also give us 30plat to re-do template.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 3:10 PM by Jodocus_Quak
ughsmash wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:30 AM
Jodocus_Quak wrote:
Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:18 PM
I think SBs with LA are fine. I have been playing my SB with 44 LA from the beginning. 10 + in CS is only for backstab. The dmg of backstab is not important, but the 3 sec stun, which gives me time to execute the backstyle chain from LA: Snowsquall, icy brilliance and now with RR 5 and 50 LA aurora borealis. How do I get backstab off? By letting the vicitm run through me and sticking for quick turn. The backstyle chain usually hits for 140-190 (aurora borealis between 180-190 if it lands, which happens quite a lot). After evade comback hit Hanma (RR6 infiltrator) yesterday with 179. I play around LA and not CS.

This is a great example of what is right with DAoC. Even with a disadvantage you can win a fight because there are a large number of combat rolls going off. Anyone can have a great fight and beat someone who seems to get evaded or miss key attacks.

Also the above example is a good scenario. I would venture to say most Assassins while in stealth aren't going to completely run through someone and let them get a backstab off before they have hit the person, so I can assume the scenario presented is an Assassin running out of stealth and you ambushed them. The perfect scenario. Most people should be winning this even with a 20 percent disadvantage, as an Assassin our opener is the most important part of combat.

If you do the simple math on what 20 percent more damage based off of resist tables means, it means that if I kill a Nightshade in 5 hits they can kill me in 4 hits. Roll the dice enough or give me the opener, and I have beaten the spread. But if you look at a large sample size, you will see the equality of the characters is not good at all.

I honestly don't think its so terrible that we couldn't survive without a change. I am saying a bump or an equalization in some way would be nice and more healthy for the server.

Of course my opener is only viable vs visibles.

From my experience a 1vs1 stealther fight is decided by the following and in that order:

1. Adds (many instances of Alb stealth grps or greys adding)
2. Purge up or down (that's why I have Purge5 and only MoP3)
3. Realm Rank (higher RR ussually means higher dmg)
4. Your own spec (I think 44 LA or 50 LA is way more competitive in a 1vs1 against a stealther than high CS spec)
5. Who gets PA first? (fast clicking is necessary)
6. Do both run buff charges? (its basically a must for any stealther to run red str/con, dex/qui and AF buffs)
7. Luck with evade/crit
8. Is Heart of Legion rdy? (a tiny window, because its the same 2 min reuse timer as the 10 mins buff charges, makes a huge difference to heal for 250 with heal pot or 500 with HoL)
9. Build in class differences.

Some ppl say point 9 is much higher, but that is not my xp.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:52 PM by Saroi
You need to choose how you want to play your SB. If you want high CS to get easy kills on casters or other squishy targets, that is your choice but you will have a downside vs. other melees/Assassins.

Speccing higher in LA means you have more base damage with Mainhand and Offhand. This really helps a lot vs other Assasins. You also don't have to worry for PA damage, just hit him straight out of stealth so he doesn't land his. You also don't have Garotte as an anytimer. Garotte gives you defense penalty, which means that your enemy hits you more often. If Achilles gets evaded or whatever, you have to hit Garotte again and have that penalty again.

NS/Inf will always hit harder with their weapons duo to the difference in the DW/CD and LA mechanics. And the Gap will always be higher with low LA. Reading some comments here about how Blade NS/Ranger are so OP and they are chanceless is kinda silly. That is not because of the armor resists. It is just because of playstyle/spec. Changing the Armor resists will not change the fight outcome in this case.

As a SB you have enough tools. For instance get a damage add charge from alchemy done. You can use it on a lv 1 MP item and use it from your backpack. The damage add gives you about 50-70 extra damage per swing(If both weapons hit). With this your damage is on pair with that from the other Assassins.

And yes sorry Riac, I know in your eyes this is garbage and that everything has to be nerfed. Just let everyone other than SB have 1 HP so that even you can kill something.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:00 PM by Shadowblade1
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:29 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:18 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:16 AM
You got me, I refuse to post pics I don’t have nor exist. I don’t even look at logs lol, I have the window shrunk down.

“its not that i'm lazy bob its that i just don't care”

since you dont care it would be fair to say you have no idea what is going on when the numbers are inspected in a more in depth manner? considering youre only losing to three sbs while not making any attempts to min max or pay attention to how the fights are playing out is a bit telling imo.

I write software for a living and the last thing I want to do is analyze fn logs for a fight in a game when I get home. I made a Shar Ranger with +15 str and +10 con. It has purge 3, aug str, aug con, and toughness. Armor is all MP with epic Ablative procs and Galla BP with heal proc. Weapons are both MP with a dot and dmg proc. I destroy some SBs and Infs and I get destroyed by some SBs and Infs.

You have said that you like to make dumb combos, or weak ones, to make them good. You said you like to tweak and get better. Its just odd you dont even look at the combat log to see what went right or went wrong.

I think thats the general point being made. You don't necessarily have to take screens. But if you made that toon for one thing, and you're not at least analyzing the combat logs when, as you say, you are throughly defeated, then that one thing must not be all that high on your priority list.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:02 PM by Mauriac
Saroi wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:52 PM
You need to choose how you want to play your SB. If you want high CS to get easy kills on casters or other squishy targets, that is your choice but you will have a downside vs. other melees/Assassins.

Speccing higher in LA means you have more base damage with Mainhand and Offhand. This really helps a lot vs other Assasins. You also don't have to worry for PA damage, just hit him straight out of stealth so he doesn't land his. You also don't have Garotte as an anytimer. Garotte gives you defense penalty, which means that your enemy hits you more often. If Achilles gets evaded or whatever, you have to hit Garotte again and have that penalty again.

NS/Inf will always hit harder with their weapons duo to the difference in the DW/CD and LA mechanics. And the Gap will always be higher with low LA. Reading some comments here about how Blade NS/Ranger are so OP and they are chanceless is kinda silly. That is not because of the armor resists. It is just because of playstyle/spec. Changing the Armor resists will not change the fight outcome in this case.

As a SB you have enough tools. For instance get a damage add charge from alchemy done. You can use it on a lv 1 MP item and use it from your backpack. The damage add gives you about 50-70 extra damage per swing(If both weapons hit). With this your damage is on pair with that from the other Assassins.

And yes sorry Riac, I know in your eyes this is garbage and that everything has to be nerfed. Just let everyone other than SB have 1 HP so that even you can kill something.

Damage add charge is 30 seconds and shares a global cool down with all other charges leaving a small window to use it in so it would rarely happen. If it was 10 minutes like other buffs that would be different but could create unforeseen issues and would be a very direct LA buff for SBs in particular
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:13 PM by dbeattie71
Shadowblade1 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:00 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:29 AM
Riac wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:18 AM
since you dont care it would be fair to say you have no idea what is going on when the numbers are inspected in a more in depth manner? considering youre only losing to three sbs while not making any attempts to min max or pay attention to how the fights are playing out is a bit telling imo.

I write software for a living and the last thing I want to do is analyze fn logs for a fight in a game when I get home. I made a Shar Ranger with +15 str and +10 con. It has purge 3, aug str, aug con, and toughness. Armor is all MP with epic Ablative procs and Galla BP with heal proc. Weapons are both MP with a dot and dmg proc. I destroy some SBs and Infs and I get destroyed by some SBs and Infs.

You have said that you like to make dumb combos, or weak ones, to make them good. You said you like to tweak and get better. Its just odd you dont even look at the combat log to see what went right or went wrong.

I think thats the general point being made. You don't necessarily have to take screens. But if you made that toon for one thing, and you're not at least analyzing the combat logs when, as you say, you are throughly defeated, then that one thing must not be all that high on your priority list.

I glance at them sometimes but I don't break them down likes its NFL Live. Numbers are usually all over the board and mostly useless because you don't know how the other toon is setup, etc. Haduri just smoked me again, noob SBs should be getting tips from that source.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:14 PM by Saroi
Mauriac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:02 PM
Saroi wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:52 PM
You need to choose how you want to play your SB. If you want high CS to get easy kills on casters or other squishy targets, that is your choice but you will have a downside vs. other melees/Assassins.

Speccing higher in LA means you have more base damage with Mainhand and Offhand. This really helps a lot vs other Assasins. You also don't have to worry for PA damage, just hit him straight out of stealth so he doesn't land his. You also don't have Garotte as an anytimer. Garotte gives you defense penalty, which means that your enemy hits you more often. If Achilles gets evaded or whatever, you have to hit Garotte again and have that penalty again.

NS/Inf will always hit harder with their weapons duo to the difference in the DW/CD and LA mechanics. And the Gap will always be higher with low LA. Reading some comments here about how Blade NS/Ranger are so OP and they are chanceless is kinda silly. That is not because of the armor resists. It is just because of playstyle/spec. Changing the Armor resists will not change the fight outcome in this case.

As a SB you have enough tools. For instance get a damage add charge from alchemy done. You can use it on a lv 1 MP item and use it from your backpack. The damage add gives you about 50-70 extra damage per swing(If both weapons hit). With this your damage is on pair with that from the other Assassins.

And yes sorry Riac, I know in your eyes this is garbage and that everything has to be nerfed. Just let everyone other than SB have 1 HP so that even you can kill something.

Damage add charge is 30 seconds and shares a global cool down with all other charges leaving a small window to use it in so it would rarely happen. If it was 10 minutes like other buffs that would be different but could create unforeseen issues and would be a very direct LA buff for SBs in particular

You can use it in fight and 30 seconds is enough for it. I don't use d/q charge because of that reason. The benefit from Damage add is way more than from the d/q. Like I said you have to choose how you want to play and if you think it has more benefits. And in my opinion the damage add charge is very op and needed.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:41 PM by Mauriac
Saroi wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:14 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:02 PM
Saroi wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:52 PM
You need to choose how you want to play your SB. If you want high CS to get easy kills on casters or other squishy targets, that is your choice but you will have a downside vs. other melees/Assassins.

Speccing higher in LA means you have more base damage with Mainhand and Offhand. This really helps a lot vs other Assasins. You also don't have to worry for PA damage, just hit him straight out of stealth so he doesn't land his. You also don't have Garotte as an anytimer. Garotte gives you defense penalty, which means that your enemy hits you more often. If Achilles gets evaded or whatever, you have to hit Garotte again and have that penalty again.

NS/Inf will always hit harder with their weapons duo to the difference in the DW/CD and LA mechanics. And the Gap will always be higher with low LA. Reading some comments here about how Blade NS/Ranger are so OP and they are chanceless is kinda silly. That is not because of the armor resists. It is just because of playstyle/spec. Changing the Armor resists will not change the fight outcome in this case.

As a SB you have enough tools. For instance get a damage add charge from alchemy done. You can use it on a lv 1 MP item and use it from your backpack. The damage add gives you about 50-70 extra damage per swing(If both weapons hit). With this your damage is on pair with that from the other Assassins.

And yes sorry Riac, I know in your eyes this is garbage and that everything has to be nerfed. Just let everyone other than SB have 1 HP so that even you can kill something.

Damage add charge is 30 seconds and shares a global cool down with all other charges leaving a small window to use it in so it would rarely happen. If it was 10 minutes like other buffs that would be different but could create unforeseen issues and would be a very direct LA buff for SBs in particular

You can use it in fight and 30 seconds is enough for it. I don't use d/q charge because of that reason. The benefit from Damage add is way more than from the d/q. Like I said you have to choose how you want to play and if you think it has more benefits. And in my opinion the damage add charge is very op and needed.

I don't disagree that it's very powerful. However, I'm not convinced it is more damage than d/q. Your swing speed will be a lot slower without d/q and that will reduce your chances of landing reactives because if your opponent is swinging near cap they're going to swing at nearly two to one to you. I'd be interested to see a numbers comparison. Yesterday I fought an rr5 NS named Vampyra who likes to throw down a d/q debuff every fight and it noticeably reduces my damage. Coincidently, she's also one of the toughest rr5 NS I've seen
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:58 PM by Shadowblade1
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:13 PM
Shadowblade1 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:00 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:29 AM
I write software for a living and the last thing I want to do is analyze fn logs for a fight in a game when I get home. I made a Shar Ranger with +15 str and +10 con. It has purge 3, aug str, aug con, and toughness. Armor is all MP with epic Ablative procs and Galla BP with heal proc. Weapons are both MP with a dot and dmg proc. I destroy some SBs and Infs and I get destroyed by some SBs and Infs.

You have said that you like to make dumb combos, or weak ones, to make them good. You said you like to tweak and get better. Its just odd you dont even look at the combat log to see what went right or went wrong.

I think thats the general point being made. You don't necessarily have to take screens. But if you made that toon for one thing, and you're not at least analyzing the combat logs when, as you say, you are throughly defeated, then that one thing must not be all that high on your priority list.

I glance at them sometimes but I don't break them down likes its NFL Live. Numbers are usually all over the board and mostly useless because you don't know how the other toon is setup, etc. Haduri just smoked me again, noob SBs should be getting tips from that source.
Hell, I don't blame you for not wanting to statcast everything, but it just seemed in your earlier posts you prided yourself on being different and being successful. And theres nothing at all wrong with that. I too share your enthusiasm for digging in and finding new ways to be successful. Even now I'm flying in the face of conventional wisdom and I'm a crit blade and I even use a 2h with some success. I got stuff I'm testing to make our one unique aspect somehow worthwhile.

So hearing you on one hand being happy being different and in the same breath telling me(us) to fall in line with three or four successful SBs, seems counter intuitive to your own play style and frankly, mine.

I advocate for some change to SB. But on the whole, I just keep playing and trying stuff. After all, where would you be had you just made another Lurikeen ranger?
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:07 PM by dbeattie71
Shadowblade1 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:58 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:13 PM
Shadowblade1 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:00 PM
You have said that you like to make dumb combos, or weak ones, to make them good. You said you like to tweak and get better. Its just odd you dont even look at the combat log to see what went right or went wrong.

I think thats the general point being made. You don't necessarily have to take screens. But if you made that toon for one thing, and you're not at least analyzing the combat logs when, as you say, you are throughly defeated, then that one thing must not be all that high on your priority list.

I glance at them sometimes but I don't break them down likes its NFL Live. Numbers are usually all over the board and mostly useless because you don't know how the other toon is setup, etc. Haduri just smoked me again, noob SBs should be getting tips from that source.
Hell, I don't blame you for not wanting to statcast everything, but it just seemed in your earlier posts you prided yourself on being different and being successful. And theres nothing at all wrong with that. I too share your enthusiasm for digging in and finding new ways to be successful. Even now I'm flying in the face of conventional wisdom and I'm a crit blade and I even use a 2h with some success. I got stuff I'm testing to make our one unique aspect somehow worthwhile.

So hearing you on one hand being happy being different and in the same breath telling me(us) to fall in line with three or four successful SBs, seems counter intuitive to your own play style and frankly, mine.

I advocate for some change to SB. But on the whole, I just keep playing and trying stuff. After all, where would you be had you just made another Lurikeen ranger?

I never said to fall in line, I said ask them what they're doing. Is it uncool to ask people for advice or something?
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:16 PM by Saroi
Mauriac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:41 PM
Saroi wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:14 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:02 PM
Damage add charge is 30 seconds and shares a global cool down with all other charges leaving a small window to use it in so it would rarely happen. If it was 10 minutes like other buffs that would be different but could create unforeseen issues and would be a very direct LA buff for SBs in particular

You can use it in fight and 30 seconds is enough for it. I don't use d/q charge because of that reason. The benefit from Damage add is way more than from the d/q. Like I said you have to choose how you want to play and if you think it has more benefits. And in my opinion the damage add charge is very op and needed.

I don't disagree that it's very powerful. However, I'm not convinced it is more damage than d/q. Your swing speed will be a lot slower without d/q and that will reduce your chances of landing reactives because if your opponent is swinging near cap they're going to swing at nearly two to one to you. I'd be interested to see a numbers comparison. Yesterday I fought an rr5 NS named Vampyra who likes to throw down a d/q debuff every fight and it noticeably reduces my damage. Coincidently, she's also one of the toughest rr5 NS I've seen

The difference in charge to normal buff is 26. That is not a big deal and isn't "a lot slower". Also With LA mechanics, both your hands add up to your speed. So having a faster offhand helps you to swing faster. Depending on weapon from NS, most open up with a 4.2 and then switch to something around 3.3. No NS/Inf has ever swinged faster than me. It is about the same.

If this was about INf or NS, I would agree that d/q would be better than damage add, since you do not always hit with your offhand. But as a SB it is more powerful since you hit with both weapons. And since you are hitting for less damage compared to the same NS/Inf swings you need to use stuff that helps up bringing your damage.

According to Swing calculator the 26 quickness gives me 0,15 seconds on swinging. So I would need around 13 swings to get an extra swing off but I am doing around 50-70 extra damage thanks to the damage add.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 7:13 PM by Shadowblade1
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:07 PM
Shadowblade1 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:58 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:13 PM
I glance at them sometimes but I don't break them down likes its NFL Live. Numbers are usually all over the board and mostly useless because you don't know how the other toon is setup, etc. Haduri just smoked me again, noob SBs should be getting tips from that source.
Hell, I don't blame you for not wanting to statcast everything, but it just seemed in your earlier posts you prided yourself on being different and being successful. And theres nothing at all wrong with that. I too share your enthusiasm for digging in and finding new ways to be successful. Even now I'm flying in the face of conventional wisdom and I'm a crit blade and I even use a 2h with some success. I got stuff I'm testing to make our one unique aspect somehow worthwhile.

So hearing you on one hand being happy being different and in the same breath telling me(us) to fall in line with three or four successful SBs, seems counter intuitive to your own play style and frankly, mine.

I advocate for some change to SB. But on the whole, I just keep playing and trying stuff. After all, where would you be had you just made another Lurikeen ranger?

I never said to fall in line, I said ask them what they're doing. Is it uncool to ask people for advice or something?

Course not. I'd ask if I needed it. But the answers that come back where we differ can only be spec. Which brings us back to square one. I'm a firm believer that there should be more than one way to skin a cat and that should apply to any class. Sounds like you are too.
I promise you won't hear me complain about SB. But I don't mind expressing where I think we could be improved. And I don't believe NS or Infy should suffer for it. Nerfing them isn't the answer.

Nightshades had their tool kit improved. And, imo, it was needed. Acuity as dex may have been a touch much but that's changed, and I haven't heard much in the way of complaints on their end or our end. Infiltrator's, I think are the most balanced, and played well, are just very cool as a class. To me, infy is the standard of what the other two assassins should be brought into line with.

My personal opinion, and I know you didn't ask, make 2h worth it. Whether its a bonus to CS growth rates, or blunt damage, something to bring our original toolkit up to par.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 7:29 PM by dbeattie71
Saroi wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:16 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:41 PM
Saroi wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:14 PM
You can use it in fight and 30 seconds is enough for it. I don't use d/q charge because of that reason. The benefit from Damage add is way more than from the d/q. Like I said you have to choose how you want to play and if you think it has more benefits. And in my opinion the damage add charge is very op and needed.

I don't disagree that it's very powerful. However, I'm not convinced it is more damage than d/q. Your swing speed will be a lot slower without d/q and that will reduce your chances of landing reactives because if your opponent is swinging near cap they're going to swing at nearly two to one to you. I'd be interested to see a numbers comparison. Yesterday I fought an rr5 NS named Vampyra who likes to throw down a d/q debuff every fight and it noticeably reduces my damage. Coincidently, she's also one of the toughest rr5 NS I've seen

The difference in charge to normal buff is 26. That is not a big deal and isn't "a lot slower". Also With LA mechanics, both your hands add up to your speed. So having a faster offhand helps you to swing faster. Depending on weapon from NS, most open up with a 4.2 and then switch to something around 3.3. No NS/Inf has ever swinged faster than me. It is about the same.

If this was about INf or NS, I would agree that d/q would be better than damage add, since you do not always hit with your offhand. But as a SB it is more powerful since you hit with both weapons. And since you are hitting for less damage compared to the same NS/Inf swings you need to use stuff that helps up bringing your damage.

According to Swing calculator the 26 quickness gives me 0,15 seconds on swinging. So I would need around 13 swings to get an extra swing off but I am doing around 50-70 extra damage thanks to the damage add.

Also more chances for off hand to proc.
Fri 5 Apr 2019 10:45 PM by Mauriac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 7:29 PM
Saroi wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 6:16 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:41 PM
I don't disagree that it's very powerful. However, I'm not convinced it is more damage than d/q. Your swing speed will be a lot slower without d/q and that will reduce your chances of landing reactives because if your opponent is swinging near cap they're going to swing at nearly two to one to you. I'd be interested to see a numbers comparison. Yesterday I fought an rr5 NS named Vampyra who likes to throw down a d/q debuff every fight and it noticeably reduces my damage. Coincidently, she's also one of the toughest rr5 NS I've seen

The difference in charge to normal buff is 26. That is not a big deal and isn't "a lot slower". Also With LA mechanics, both your hands add up to your speed. So having a faster offhand helps you to swing faster. Depending on weapon from NS, most open up with a 4.2 and then switch to something around 3.3. No NS/Inf has ever swinged faster than me. It is about the same.

If this was about INf or NS, I would agree that d/q would be better than damage add, since you do not always hit with your offhand. But as a SB it is more powerful since you hit with both weapons. And since you are hitting for less damage compared to the same NS/Inf swings you need to use stuff that helps up bringing your damage.

According to Swing calculator the 26 quickness gives me 0,15 seconds on swinging. So I would need around 13 swings to get an extra swing off but I am doing around 50-70 extra damage thanks to the damage add.

Also more chances for off hand to proc.

Also more chanced got enemy armor to proc. Proc rates basically nullify each other. It's the haste effect itself that is important.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:12 AM by Stimmed
Didn't read this whollleee post but just wanted to add this from my perspective.

The toughest fights on here are SB's. There was only 1 NS that played constantly before I stopped a month back that was very tough Shurtugal(also Silentblade but have not seen him in months). But there was at least 4-5 SB's that were always extremely tough/hard fights. You change to much on SB's and they will be absolutely wrecking every assassin.

I talk to a few of the tougher SBS and they even say they don't find fights vs Inf's/NS's that hard they win most. So imo its coming down to who's on the class. I just came back after a bit of time off lets see if that holds up I guess!.

Cyas all out there look forward to the fights.

P.S When I talk about very tough I mean fights I knew will go either way. You can always lose to someone randomly and not happen that often but theres some players its just a tough ass fight every time.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 2:25 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Stimmed wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:12 AM
Didn't read this whollleee post but just wanted to add this from my perspective.

The toughest fights on here are SB's. There was only 1 NS that played constantly before I stopped a month back that was very tough Shurtugal(also Silentblade but have not seen him in months). But there was at least 4-5 SB's that were always extremely tough/hard fights. You change to much on SB's and they will be absolutely wrecking every assassin.

I talk to a few of the tougher SBS and they even say they don't find fights vs Inf's/NS's that hard they win most. So imo its coming down to who's on the class. I just came back after a bit of time off lets see if that holds up I guess!.

Cyas all out there look forward to the fights.

P.S When I talk about very tough I mean fights I knew will go either way. You can always lose to someone randomly and not happen that often but theres some players its just a tough ass fight every time.

There are really only 4-5 posters here that supply the majority of the "SB's need boofed" posts. 99% of those post's are centered around the extremely specific encounter of shadow blades versus blade specc'd night shades (occasionally blade ranges get thrown around but there was really only 1 guy who was performing well on it) due to the "20% damage" differential.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 7:42 PM by Mauriac
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 2:25 PM
Stimmed wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:12 AM
Didn't read this whollleee post but just wanted to add this from my perspective.

The toughest fights on here are SB's. There was only 1 NS that played constantly before I stopped a month back that was very tough Shurtugal(also Silentblade but have not seen him in months). But there was at least 4-5 SB's that were always extremely tough/hard fights. You change to much on SB's and they will be absolutely wrecking every assassin.

I talk to a few of the tougher SBS and they even say they don't find fights vs Inf's/NS's that hard they win most. So imo its coming down to who's on the class. I just came back after a bit of time off lets see if that holds up I guess!.

Cyas all out there look forward to the fights.

P.S When I talk about very tough I mean fights I knew will go either way. You can always lose to someone randomly and not happen that often but theres some players its just a tough ass fight every time.

There are really only 4-5 posters here that supply the majority of the "SB's need boofed" posts. 99% of those post's are centered around the extremely specific encounter of shadow blades versus blade specc'd night shades (occasionally blade ranges get thrown around but there was really only 1 guy who was performing well on it) due to the "20% damage" differential.

That's not exactly the case. We also only have one damage type and are the only sneak without a 1part off evade stun. Hibs can even get what basically amounts to an anytime stun in CD. There are plenty of other classes who shitmix SBs. Friars, reavers, heroes, necros, mercs, armsman (if buffed), blademasters all come to mind. Not saying we should be able to destroy all those classes but simply pointing out that SBs are not "destroying everyone but bladeshades and blade Rangers". We're also the only sneak who faces a 20% damage spread. No one else faces worse than 10%.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:13 PM by Saroi
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 7:42 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 2:25 PM
Stimmed wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:12 AM
Didn't read this whollleee post but just wanted to add this from my perspective.

The toughest fights on here are SB's. There was only 1 NS that played constantly before I stopped a month back that was very tough Shurtugal(also Silentblade but have not seen him in months). But there was at least 4-5 SB's that were always extremely tough/hard fights. You change to much on SB's and they will be absolutely wrecking every assassin.

I talk to a few of the tougher SBS and they even say they don't find fights vs Inf's/NS's that hard they win most. So imo its coming down to who's on the class. I just came back after a bit of time off lets see if that holds up I guess!.

Cyas all out there look forward to the fights.

P.S When I talk about very tough I mean fights I knew will go either way. You can always lose to someone randomly and not happen that often but theres some players its just a tough ass fight every time.

There are really only 4-5 posters here that supply the majority of the "SB's need boofed" posts. 99% of those post's are centered around the extremely specific encounter of shadow blades versus blade specc'd night shades (occasionally blade ranges get thrown around but there was really only 1 guy who was performing well on it) due to the "20% damage" differential.

That's not exactly the case. We also only have one damage type and are the only sneak without a 1part off evade stun. Hibs can even get what basically amounts to an anytime stun in CD. There are plenty of other classes who shitmix SBs. Friars, reavers, heroes, necros, mercs, armsman (if buffed), blademasters all come to mind. Not saying we should be able to destroy all those classes but simply pointing out that SBs are not "destroying everyone but bladeshades and blade Rangers". We're also the only sneak who faces a 20% damage spread. No one else faces worse than 10%.

I don't know what you are doing. I had 1v1 vs Necros and Reavers, even rr8+ like Relvinian or Ivi and I won 1v1. Sure it is not always the case but you have enough tools to win and I like to fight those classes, especially Necro's are always a fun fight that requires some luck but can go either way. SB is more than fine here. Even with the 20% damage spread you can do the same damage or even more. I have never been outdamaged by a NS or Ranger and I fought some high ones here too. I Usually hit with Doublefrost for around 150 and Evade chain/Backchain goes up to 170 - 210 Mainhand.

The only thing I would like as a SB would be sidestun. It would make it worth grp to have a chance vs. Hib/Alb stealthzerg since they all have easy access to stuns. Either HIb Sidestun or Minstrel stun.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:54 PM by Mauriac
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:13 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 7:42 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 2:25 PM
There are really only 4-5 posters here that supply the majority of the "SB's need boofed" posts. 99% of those post's are centered around the extremely specific encounter of shadow blades versus blade specc'd night shades (occasionally blade ranges get thrown around but there was really only 1 guy who was performing well on it) due to the "20% damage" differential.

That's not exactly the case. We also only have one damage type and are the only sneak without a 1part off evade stun. Hibs can even get what basically amounts to an anytime stun in CD. There are plenty of other classes who shitmix SBs. Friars, reavers, heroes, necros, mercs, armsman (if buffed), blademasters all come to mind. Not saying we should be able to destroy all those classes but simply pointing out that SBs are not "destroying everyone but bladeshades and blade Rangers". We're also the only sneak who faces a 20% damage spread. No one else faces worse than 10%.

I don't know what you are doing. I had 1v1 vs Necros and Reavers, even rr8+ like Relvinian or Ivi and I won 1v1. Sure it is not always the case but you have enough tools to win and I like to fight those classes, especially Necro's are always a fun fight that requires some luck but can go either way. SB is more than fine here. Even with the 20% damage spread you can do the same damage or even more. I have never been outdamaged by a NS or Ranger and I fought some high ones here too. I Usually hit with Doublefrost for around 150 and Evade chain/Backchain goes up to 170 - 210 Mainhand.

The only thing I would like as a SB would be sidestun. It would make it worth grp to have a chance vs. Hib/Alb stealthzerg since they all have easy access to stuns. Either HIb Sidestun or Minstrel stun.

I'd really like to see that. Even full buffs and charges at rr6 I'm not seeing double frost over 110 or 115 with 44 LA. My frosty glaze might break 150 MH depending on the armor type.

I also can beat low RR necros. The r5+ ones, particularly ones running the zombie pet, are borderline unkillable in 1v1 for a melee. I venture to guess those times of breaking 170 with doublefrost are the exception, not the rule unless you're talking combined MH + OH or against unbuffed or CF pot only targets
Thu 11 Apr 2019 9:36 PM by Jodocus_Quak
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:54 PM
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:13 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 7:42 PM
That's not exactly the case. We also only have one damage type and are the only sneak without a 1part off evade stun. Hibs can even get what basically amounts to an anytime stun in CD. There are plenty of other classes who shitmix SBs. Friars, reavers, heroes, necros, mercs, armsman (if buffed), blademasters all come to mind. Not saying we should be able to destroy all those classes but simply pointing out that SBs are not "destroying everyone but bladeshades and blade Rangers". We're also the only sneak who faces a 20% damage spread. No one else faces worse than 10%.

I don't know what you are doing. I had 1v1 vs Necros and Reavers, even rr8+ like Relvinian or Ivi and I won 1v1. Sure it is not always the case but you have enough tools to win and I like to fight those classes, especially Necro's are always a fun fight that requires some luck but can go either way. SB is more than fine here. Even with the 20% damage spread you can do the same damage or even more. I have never been outdamaged by a NS or Ranger and I fought some high ones here too. I Usually hit with Doublefrost for around 150 and Evade chain/Backchain goes up to 170 - 210 Mainhand.

The only thing I would like as a SB would be sidestun. It would make it worth grp to have a chance vs. Hib/Alb stealthzerg since they all have easy access to stuns. Either HIb Sidestun or Minstrel stun.

I'd really like to see that. Even full buffs and charges at rr6 I'm not seeing double frost over 110 or 115 with 44 LA. My frosty glaze might break 150 MH depending on the armor type.

I also can beat low RR necros. The r5+ ones, particularly ones running the zombie pet, are borderline unkillable in 1v1 for a melee. I venture to guess those times of breaking 170 with doublefrost are the exception, not the rule unless you're talking combined MH + OH or against unbuffed or CF pot only targets

My doublefrost, afterevade and backstyle chains hit for the same amount. Aurora borealis really hurts (I am 50 LA). I have the same xp against those classes (Fians, Champs, Blademasters etc). Only one class I would not jump and test my luck: Friars.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 9:54 PM by Saroi
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:54 PM
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:13 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 7:42 PM
That's not exactly the case. We also only have one damage type and are the only sneak without a 1part off evade stun. Hibs can even get what basically amounts to an anytime stun in CD. There are plenty of other classes who shitmix SBs. Friars, reavers, heroes, necros, mercs, armsman (if buffed), blademasters all come to mind. Not saying we should be able to destroy all those classes but simply pointing out that SBs are not "destroying everyone but bladeshades and blade Rangers". We're also the only sneak who faces a 20% damage spread. No one else faces worse than 10%.

I don't know what you are doing. I had 1v1 vs Necros and Reavers, even rr8+ like Relvinian or Ivi and I won 1v1. Sure it is not always the case but you have enough tools to win and I like to fight those classes, especially Necro's are always a fun fight that requires some luck but can go either way. SB is more than fine here. Even with the 20% damage spread you can do the same damage or even more. I have never been outdamaged by a NS or Ranger and I fought some high ones here too. I Usually hit with Doublefrost for around 150 and Evade chain/Backchain goes up to 170 - 210 Mainhand.

The only thing I would like as a SB would be sidestun. It would make it worth grp to have a chance vs. Hib/Alb stealthzerg since they all have easy access to stuns. Either HIb Sidestun or Minstrel stun.

I'd really like to see that. Even full buffs and charges at rr6 I'm not seeing double frost over 110 or 115 with 44 LA. My frosty glaze might break 150 MH depending on the armor type.

I also can beat low RR necros. The r5+ ones, particularly ones running the zombie pet, are borderline unkillable in 1v1 for a melee. I venture to guess those times of breaking 170 with doublefrost are the exception, not the rule unless you're talking combined MH + OH or against unbuffed or CF pot only targets

I am a noob when it comes to uploading. I hope it works. Was hit on Boomslang.

https://imgur.com/a/9qdw9yj
Thu 11 Apr 2019 9:58 PM by Saroi
Jodocus_Quak wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 9:36 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:54 PM
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:13 PM
I don't know what you are doing. I had 1v1 vs Necros and Reavers, even rr8+ like Relvinian or Ivi and I won 1v1. Sure it is not always the case but you have enough tools to win and I like to fight those classes, especially Necro's are always a fun fight that requires some luck but can go either way. SB is more than fine here. Even with the 20% damage spread you can do the same damage or even more. I have never been outdamaged by a NS or Ranger and I fought some high ones here too. I Usually hit with Doublefrost for around 150 and Evade chain/Backchain goes up to 170 - 210 Mainhand.

The only thing I would like as a SB would be sidestun. It would make it worth grp to have a chance vs. Hib/Alb stealthzerg since they all have easy access to stuns. Either HIb Sidestun or Minstrel stun.

I'd really like to see that. Even full buffs and charges at rr6 I'm not seeing double frost over 110 or 115 with 44 LA. My frosty glaze might break 150 MH depending on the armor type.

I also can beat low RR necros. The r5+ ones, particularly ones running the zombie pet, are borderline unkillable in 1v1 for a melee. I venture to guess those times of breaking 170 with doublefrost are the exception, not the rule unless you're talking combined MH + OH or against unbuffed or CF pot only targets

My doublefrost, afterevade and backstyle chains hit for the same amount. Aurora borealis really hurts (I am 50 LA). I have the same xp against those classes (Fians, Champs, Blademasters etc). Only one class I would not jump and test my luck: Friars.

Exactly. I try my luck on friars if I don't know him or I know I can win. But there are some Friars that are too tough with RA's up.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:08 PM by Riac
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 9:54 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:54 PM
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:13 PM
I don't know what you are doing. I had 1v1 vs Necros and Reavers, even rr8+ like Relvinian or Ivi and I won 1v1. Sure it is not always the case but you have enough tools to win and I like to fight those classes, especially Necro's are always a fun fight that requires some luck but can go either way. SB is more than fine here. Even with the 20% damage spread you can do the same damage or even more. I have never been outdamaged by a NS or Ranger and I fought some high ones here too. I Usually hit with Doublefrost for around 150 and Evade chain/Backchain goes up to 170 - 210 Mainhand.

The only thing I would like as a SB would be sidestun. It would make it worth grp to have a chance vs. Hib/Alb stealthzerg since they all have easy access to stuns. Either HIb Sidestun or Minstrel stun.

I'd really like to see that. Even full buffs and charges at rr6 I'm not seeing double frost over 110 or 115 with 44 LA. My frosty glaze might break 150 MH depending on the armor type.

I also can beat low RR necros. The r5+ ones, particularly ones running the zombie pet, are borderline unkillable in 1v1 for a melee. I venture to guess those times of breaking 170 with doublefrost are the exception, not the rule unless you're talking combined MH + OH or against unbuffed or CF pot only targets

I am a noob when it comes to uploading. I hope it works. Was hit on Boomslang.

https://imgur.com/a/9qdw9yj

isnt boomslang pierce? so he is getting -10% dmg on you.
this isnt one of those examples of a blade user on mid leather.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:14 PM by Saroi
Riac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:08 PM
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 9:54 PM
Mauriac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 8:54 PM
I'd really like to see that. Even full buffs and charges at rr6 I'm not seeing double frost over 110 or 115 with 44 LA. My frosty glaze might break 150 MH depending on the armor type.

I also can beat low RR necros. The r5+ ones, particularly ones running the zombie pet, are borderline unkillable in 1v1 for a melee. I venture to guess those times of breaking 170 with doublefrost are the exception, not the rule unless you're talking combined MH + OH or against unbuffed or CF pot only targets

I am a noob when it comes to uploading. I hope it works. Was hit on Boomslang.

https://imgur.com/a/9qdw9yj

isnt boomslang pierce? so he is getting -10% dmg on you.
this isnt one of those examples of a blade user on mid leather.

I don't know what he his. But Mauriac is saying he is only hitting for 110 Doublefrost. And as you can see you can hit for 150 doublefrost on an NS when you have 10% less damage duo to Armor resist.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:15 PM by Riac
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:14 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:08 PM
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 9:54 PM
I am a noob when it comes to uploading. I hope it works. Was hit on Boomslang.

https://imgur.com/a/9qdw9yj

isnt boomslang pierce? so he is getting -10% dmg on you.
this isnt one of those examples of a blade user on mid leather.

I don't know what he his. But Mauriac is saying he is only hitting for 110 Doublefrost. And as you can see you can hit for 150 doublefrost on an NS when you have 10% less damage duo to Armor resist.

what RAs do you have?
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:17 PM by Saroi
Riac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:15 PM
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:14 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:08 PM
isnt boomslang pierce? so he is getting -10% dmg on you.
this isnt one of those examples of a blade user on mid leather.

I don't know what he his. But Mauriac is saying he is only hitting for 110 Doublefrost. And as you can see you can hit for 150 doublefrost on an NS when you have 10% less damage duo to Armor resist.

what RAs do you have?

Atm I have Aug Str. 6, Purge 5 and Toughness 2 and vanish because of the event to somehow survive all the adders.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:23 PM by Mavella
Pics of damage prior to being enervated and diseased isn't exactly representative of what your typical sin vs sin damage really is. Just sayin.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:35 PM by Saroi
Mavella wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:23 PM
Pics of damage prior to being enervated and diseased isn't exactly representative of what your typical sin vs sin damage really is. Just sayin.

THis is after poison. I ran in a grp of 5-6 HIbstealther and already took a few hits before I hit. That is why I left the top out.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:54 PM by daoklover
Don’t know what it is but Boomslang feels more like fighting a RR3 Brehon. He respected to blades so he prob does more damage now.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:55 PM by Saroi
daoklover wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:54 PM
Don’t know what it is but Boomslang feels more like fighting a RR3 Brehon. He respected to blades so he prob does more damage now.

When did he respec to Blades? Because that fight happened today before I uploaded it.
Thu 11 Apr 2019 11:07 PM by Mavella
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:35 PM
Mavella wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:23 PM
Pics of damage prior to being enervated and diseased isn't exactly representative of what your typical sin vs sin damage really is. Just sayin.

THis is after poison. I ran in a grp of 5-6 HIbstealther and already took a few hits before I hit. That is why I left the top out.

Gotcha I should have figured it wouldn't be a 1v1 with that clown.

Edit: Well when I look again you can where the enervate debuff is initially applied. Repeat applications from multiple attackers don't give that same message do they? I'm still thinking that's pre-enervate damage from your initial hits but obviously can't see the whole fight.
Fri 12 Apr 2019 12:03 AM by Saroi
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:13 PM
Shadowblade1 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:00 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Wed 3 Apr 2019 7:29 AM
I write software for a living and the last thing I want to do is analyze fn logs for a fight in a game when I get home. I made a Shar Ranger with +15 str and +10 con. It has purge 3, aug str, aug con, and toughness. Armor is all MP with epic Ablative procs and Galla BP with heal proc. Weapons are both MP with a dot and dmg proc. I destroy some SBs and Infs and I get destroyed by some SBs and Infs.

You have said that you like to make dumb combos, or weak ones, to make them good. You said you like to tweak and get better. Its just odd you dont even look at the combat log to see what went right or went wrong.

I think thats the general point being made. You don't necessarily have to take screens. But if you made that toon for one thing, and you're not at least analyzing the combat logs when, as you say, you are throughly defeated, then that one thing must not be all that high on your priority list.

I glance at them sometimes but I don't break them down likes its NFL Live. Numbers are usually all over the board and mostly useless because you don't know how the other toon is setup, etc. Haduri just smoked me again, noob SBs should be getting tips from that source.

I finally got to fight you at hmg
Fri 12 Apr 2019 12:04 AM by Saroi
Mavella wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 11:07 PM
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:35 PM
Mavella wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:23 PM
Pics of damage prior to being enervated and diseased isn't exactly representative of what your typical sin vs sin damage really is. Just sayin.

THis is after poison. I ran in a grp of 5-6 HIbstealther and already took a few hits before I hit. That is why I left the top out.

Gotcha I should have figured it wouldn't be a 1v1 with that clown.

Edit: Well when I look again you can where the enervate debuff is initially applied. Repeat applications from multiple attackers don't give that same message do they? I'm still thinking that's pre-enervate damage from your initial hits but obviously can't see the whole fight.

You mean the one with seem weaker and const lost? No that is not poison. The poison also adds you weaponskill got lowered.
So what you see is a debuff from weapon.
Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:13 AM by dbeattie71
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:14 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:08 PM
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 9:54 PM
I am a noob when it comes to uploading. I hope it works. Was hit on Boomslang.

https://imgur.com/a/9qdw9yj

isnt boomslang pierce? so he is getting -10% dmg on you.
this isnt one of those examples of a blade user on mid leather.

I don't know what he his. But Mauriac is saying he is only hitting for 110 Doublefrost. And as you can see you can hit for 150 doublefrost on an NS when you have 10% less damage duo to Armor resist.

Maybe because he has mop instead of aug str.
Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:23 AM by dbeattie71
Saroi wrote:
Fri 12 Apr 2019 12:03 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:13 PM
Shadowblade1 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:00 PM
You have said that you like to make dumb combos, or weak ones, to make them good. You said you like to tweak and get better. Its just odd you dont even look at the combat log to see what went right or went wrong.

I think thats the general point being made. You don't necessarily have to take screens. But if you made that toon for one thing, and you're not at least analyzing the combat logs when, as you say, you are throughly defeated, then that one thing must not be all that high on your priority list.

I glance at them sometimes but I don't break them down likes its NFL Live. Numbers are usually all over the board and mostly useless because you don't know how the other toon is setup, etc. Haduri just smoked me again, noob SBs should be getting tips from that source.

I finally got to fight you at hmg

Yeah, I got rolled.
Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:32 AM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:13 AM
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:14 PM
Riac wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:08 PM
isnt boomslang pierce? so he is getting -10% dmg on you.
this isnt one of those examples of a blade user on mid leather.

I don't know what he his. But Mauriac is saying he is only hitting for 110 Doublefrost. And as you can see you can hit for 150 doublefrost on an NS when you have 10% less damage duo to Armor resist.

Maybe because he has mop instead of aug str.

he only has one more aug str than i do and im not hitting liek that, by im 44cs
Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:54 AM by Saroi
Riac wrote:
Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:32 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:13 AM
Saroi wrote:
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:14 PM
I don't know what he his. But Mauriac is saying he is only hitting for 110 Doublefrost. And as you can see you can hit for 150 doublefrost on an NS when you have 10% less damage duo to Armor resist.

Maybe because he has mop instead of aug str.

he only has one more aug str than i do and im not hitting liek that, by im 44cs

But I have 50 LA
Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:55 AM by Saroi
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 12 Apr 2019 1:23 AM
Saroi wrote:
Fri 12 Apr 2019 12:03 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 5 Apr 2019 5:13 PM
I glance at them sometimes but I don't break them down likes its NFL Live. Numbers are usually all over the board and mostly useless because you don't know how the other toon is setup, etc. Haduri just smoked me again, noob SBs should be getting tips from that source.

I finally got to fight you at hmg

Yeah, I got rolled.

Still one of the best Rangers I met so far.
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