Zerks Need Some Help - Phoenix Freeshard

Let me preface this by saying I don't play a zerk (or even Midgard atm)

With the recent Friar buffs I got to thinking about what other classes could benefit from some changes and zerk was the first one that came to mind. As it stands currently there's almost no reason to run a zerk over a savage at the top level of rvr; they do less dps, they're easier to peel, their spike dmg is predictable (and thus healable), and their defense penetration has been neutered. Not only are they sub-optimal in Mid setups, they are also considerably worse than their Hib/Alb counterparts (BM/Merc) due to their lack of Slam (or any 1-part/positional stun for that matter) and Charge. As such, what should be Midgard's premier melee dps class finds itself without a home in most mid setups.

Some possible changes I'd suggest:
1. Give zerks access to the New Frontiers version of Charge. This would help them massively in the "peel war" meta-game where they are currently helpless against any shield tank worth their salt (including Mercs/BMs). Adjust the reuse timer as needed.

If that's not an option, perhaps a speed burst/cc-immunity could be added to the Berserk ability to promote more tactical use instead of strictly burst-dmg.

2. Give them access to side-stun like BM

Discuss~

Mon 25 Mar 2019 10:10 PM by moe_Jiller

Feedback on 1: NEVER give anything NF charge without Zephyr. Worst And most unfun mechanic ingame if there is nothing to counter it except BoF.

Mon 25 Mar 2019 10:41 PM by Mauriac

Option 1: bad.

Option 2: worthy of discussion. Interesting suggestion.

Not sure what else you could really do for zeros without fundamentally altering the class. Option 2 is interesting

Tue 26 Mar 2019 5:38 AM by Zzang

Charge is probably a bad idea because even as it is now with determination and stoicism tank classes already feels pretty much unstoppable with normal CC.

Side stun or side snare would put them more in line with the other two light tanks but would'nt really give them any unique touch.

How about making Vendo-mode give immunity to snare and root for the duration? This would go well in line with the class name and would also make it so that you actually had to adress and kill the Berserker instead of just poking them with a melee snare style and forget about them.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:20 AM by Ceen

There is a difference between classes that are faar behind all others and classes which perform slightly less efficient.
But yes let's address Warden and Berserker, no one invites them ever.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:52 AM by Luluko

I agree that zerk is certainly pretty weak compared to bm/merc you just have access to 2 damage types what most of mid use anyway nothing good against clerics/minstrels like svg has and sitestun would even if it is just 4 sec would help them a lot

but changes benefiting mids arent well received here

Tue 26 Mar 2019 9:27 AM by Sofely

Ceen wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:20 AM
But yes let's address Warden and Berserker, no one invites them ever.

Wat ?

Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:18 PM by Ardri

Or they could learn to play their class optimally. Quit spamming doublefrost on everything, use the back chain with a dd attached. Weapon swap to get 10-20% damage table bonus. Go max MoP like everyone else.

Exhibit A: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4596&p=28966#p28966

Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:27 PM by Amp_Phetamine

I've seen plenty of Zerkers in mid groups as well as savages.

Yes, savages have higher dps potential but they also require more focused healing to keep them alive.

1. I already created a thread discussing possible alterations to charge. Any form of charge with a CC immunity will not and should not be implemented. The devs have stated there is nothing to be altered with charge at the moment.

2. Not that bad of an idea but you're walking an incredibly rough path trying to make the Berserker more desirable compared to the Savage. This is quite synonymous to an internal arms race as Midgard is quite arguably the most efficient and popular realm. Think about it. You increase Berserker effectiveness in anyway to be on par/better than a Savage and you now have the two best light tanks in the game on the same realm. No thank you.

Also, if Mercenaries are so much better than Berserkers, and Berserkers are far less desirable than Savages, then why are Mercenaries consistently in the bottom 5 of classes played next to the VW and Champion?

Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:55 PM by kedelin

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:27 PM
I've seen plenty of Zerkers in mid groups as well as savages.

Yes, savages have higher dps potential but they also require more focused healing to keep them alive.

1. I already created a thread discussing possible alterations to charge. Any form of charge with a CC immunity will not and should not be implemented. The devs have stated there is nothing to be altered with charge at the moment.

2. Not that bad of an idea but you're walking an incredibly rough path trying to make the Berserker more desirable compared to the Savage. This is quite synonymous to an internal arms race as Midgard is quite arguably the most efficient and popular realm. Think about it. You increase Berserker effectiveness in anyway to be on par/better than a Savage and you now have the two best light tanks in the game on the same realm. No thank you.

Also, if Mercenaries are so much better than Berserkers, and Berserkers are far less desirable than Savages, then why are Mercenaries consistently in the bottom 5 of classes played next to the VW and Champion?

The reason mercenaries are in the bottom played class is all of alb thinks you need to run 4 casters to be successful in rvr... that is a realm problem not a class problem

Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:56 PM by Amp_Phetamine

kedelin wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:55 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:27 PM
I've seen plenty of Zerkers in mid groups as well as savages.

Yes, savages have higher dps potential but they also require more focused healing to keep them alive.

1. I already created a thread discussing possible alterations to charge. Any form of charge with a CC immunity will not and should not be implemented. The devs have stated there is nothing to be altered with charge at the moment.

2. Not that bad of an idea but you're walking an incredibly rough path trying to make the Berserker more desirable compared to the Savage. This is quite synonymous to an internal arms race as Midgard is quite arguably the most efficient and popular realm. Think about it. You increase Berserker effectiveness in anyway to be on par/better than a Savage and you now have the two best light tanks in the game on the same realm. No thank you.

Also, if Mercenaries are so much better than Berserkers, and Berserkers are far less desirable than Savages, then why are Mercenaries consistently in the bottom 5 of classes played next to the VW and Champion?

The reason mercenaries are in the bottom played class is all of alb thinks you need to run 4 casters to be successful in rvr... that is a realm problem not a class problem

Not quite the point I was trying to make but yes, that is true.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:23 PM by CLamoRR

Ardri wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:18 PM
Or they could learn to play their class optimally. Quit spamming doublefrost on everything, use the back chain with a dd attached. Weapon swap to get 10-20% damage table bonus. Go max MoP like everyone else.

Exhibit A: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4596&p=28966#p28966

that doesn't really address any of the issues i brought up. a zerk could do all of that and still not be as good as a savage for dps. especially because a savage can do the same thing (use high growth rate positionals, swap dmg type for dmg increase).

Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:38 PM by CLamoRR

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:56 PM
kedelin wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:55 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:27 PM
I've seen plenty of Zerkers in mid groups as well as savages.

Yes, savages have higher dps potential but they also require more focused healing to keep them alive.

1. I already created a thread discussing possible alterations to charge. Any form of charge with a CC immunity will not and should not be implemented. The devs have stated there is nothing to be altered with charge at the moment.

2. Not that bad of an idea but you're walking an incredibly rough path trying to make the Berserker more desirable compared to the Savage. This is quite synonymous to an internal arms race as Midgard is quite arguably the most efficient and popular realm. Think about it. You increase Berserker effectiveness in anyway to be on par/better than a Savage and you now have the two best light tanks in the game on the same realm. No thank you.

Also, if Mercenaries are so much better than Berserkers, and Berserkers are far less desirable than Savages, then why are Mercenaries consistently in the bottom 5 of classes played next to the VW and Champion?

The reason mercenaries are in the bottom played class is all of alb thinks you need to run 4 casters to be successful in rvr... that is a realm problem not a class problem

Not quite the point I was trying to make but yes, that is true.

what was your point then? I don't follow your logic about the Merc vs. Zerk given the context Kedelin provided.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:41 PM by Amp_Phetamine

CLamoRR wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:38 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:56 PM
kedelin wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:55 PM
The reason mercenaries are in the bottom played class is all of alb thinks you need to run 4 casters to be successful in rvr... that is a realm problem not a class problem

Not quite the point I was trying to make but yes, that is true.
what was your point then? I don't follow your logic about the Merc vs. Zerk given the context Kedelin provided.

Maybe it was only clear to me.

Okay, to explain:

You claim that Berserkers are inferior to Mercenaries and Bladmasters correct? You also claim that Berserkers are inferior to Savages as well. If this were true, you'd expect Berserkers to be at the bottom of classes played. This; however, is not true, and in fact, at the bottom of classes played is one of the classes you claim to be superior to the Berserker - the Mercenary.

Hope that helps explain it better.

Also, to elaborate a bit further, what Kedelin state has absolutely nothing to do with Merc vs. Zerk to begin with. He simply highlighted an internal group composition issue that exists within Albion.

Edit: I have to edit to also state that you guys are both focusing on the wrong part of my post. Read everything above my last statement as well please.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 5:44 PM by CLamoRR

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:41 PM
CLamoRR wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:38 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:56 PM
Not quite the point I was trying to make but yes, that is true.
what was your point then? I don't follow your logic about the Merc vs. Zerk given the context Kedelin provided.

Maybe it was only clear to me.

Okay, to explain:

You claim that Berserkers are inferior to Mercenaries and Bladmasters correct? You also claim that Berserkers are inferior to Savages as well. If this were true, you'd expect Berserkers to be at the bottom of classes played. This; however, is not true, and in fact, at the bottom of classes played is one of the classes you claim to be superior to the Berserker - the Mercenary.

Hope that helps explain it better.

Also, to elaborate a bit further, what Kedelin state has absolutely nothing to do with Merc vs. Zerk to begin with. He simply highlighted an internal group composition issue that exists within Albion.

Edit: I have to edit to also state that you guys are both focusing on the wrong part of my post. Read everything above my last statement as well please.

yes but you can't take the population of a class and leave out the context of its realm's rvr meta.

mid is a tank realm with heavily tank-oriented setups and a tank-heavy playerbase whereas (as Kedelin said) there are hardly any alb tank grps. most albs run casters and if they have tanks it's arms/pally or pally/merc(reaver). in this context it makes sense for Mercs to have a lower pop.

also, zerk IS at the bottom of mid's played. AS A TANK ON A TANK REALM WHERE TANKS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DESIRABLE:

Tue 26 Mar 2019 5:57 PM by Amp_Phetamine

CLamoRR wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 5:44 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:41 PM
CLamoRR wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:38 PM
what was your point then? I don't follow your logic about the Merc vs. Zerk given the context Kedelin provided.

Maybe it was only clear to me.

Okay, to explain:

You claim that Berserkers are inferior to Mercenaries and Bladmasters correct? You also claim that Berserkers are inferior to Savages as well. If this were true, you'd expect Berserkers to be at the bottom of classes played. This; however, is not true, and in fact, at the bottom of classes played is one of the classes you claim to be superior to the Berserker - the Mercenary.

Hope that helps explain it better.

Also, to elaborate a bit further, what Kedelin state has absolutely nothing to do with Merc vs. Zerk to begin with. He simply highlighted an internal group composition issue that exists within Albion.

Edit: I have to edit to also state that you guys are both focusing on the wrong part of my post. Read everything above my last statement as well please.

yes but you can't take the population of a class and leave out the context of its realm's rvr meta.

mid is a tank realm with heavily tank-oriented setups and a tank-heavy playerbase whereas (as Kedelin said) there are hardly any alb tank grps. most albs run casters and if they have tanks it's arms/pally or pally/merc(reaver). in this context it makes sense for Mercs to have a lower pop.

also, zerk IS at the bottom of mid's played. AS A TANK ON A TANK REALM WHERE TANKS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DESIRABLE:

Mercenaries are most definitely in need of an evaluation, more so than Berserkers, that is for sure.

But I think you're hyper focusing on the last comment I made too much.

If you were to buff Berserkers to the point that they're more or as desirable as Savages then you'd have the two best light tanks on the same server.

Berserkers aren't inherently bad, they just are not as desirable as Savages. So how do you make them more desirable without causing a potential imbalance?

Berserkers have better damage mitigation than savages. Savages have to be maintained for health loss (although for good/decent healers this isn't necessarily difficult).

It'd be quite similar to me proposing how to make Mercenaries more attractive for 8man groups in Albion? They don't actually NEED anything, just like Berserkers don't necessarily NEED anything.

Though only thing I'd currently be okay with Berserkers earning would be a side style stun (although I'd like that on Mercenaries as well, screw 42 shield spec).

Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:13 PM by erydz

They do need love!

Maybe give them immunity to CC while in vendo form!?

Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:15 PM by CLamoRR

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 5:57 PM
Berserkers have better damage mitigation than savages.

Though only thing I'd currently be okay with Berserkers earning would be a side style stun (although I'd like that on Mercenaries as well, screw 42 shield spec).

yikes.

i'll just leave it there

Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:25 PM by Amp_Phetamine

erydz wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:13 PM
They do need love!

Maybe give them immunity to CC while in vendo form!?

Negative Sir.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:26 PM by Amp_Phetamine

CLamoRR wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:15 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 5:57 PM
Berserkers have better damage mitigation than savages.

Though only thing I'd currently be okay with Berserkers earning would be a side style stun (although I'd like that on Mercenaries as well, screw 42 shield spec).

yikes.

i'll just leave it there

If you're trying to make a point by clipping a segment of my post you aren't doing a very good job

.

Your entire claim to have Berserkers buffed is because Savages are more sought after.

How is that any form of viable reasoning?

Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:34 PM by Ashenspire

Zerks do better sustained DPS than savages, they just don't have the positional stuns. They require others to keep their targets in place/from getting away. Good thing this is a team game.

Their steroid is a giant "murder me" button that could be addressed.

Other than that, Zerkers that don't just spam Doublefrost are completely viable.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:47 PM by Levi

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:26 PM
CLamoRR wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:15 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 5:57 PM
Berserkers have better damage mitigation than savages.

Though only thing I'd currently be okay with Berserkers earning would be a side style stun (although I'd like that on Mercenaries as well, screw 42 shield spec).

yikes.

i'll just leave it there

If you're trying to make a point by clipping a segment of my post you aren't doing a very good job .

Your entire claim to have Berserkers buffed is because Savages are more sought after.

How is that any form of viable reasoning?

He probably quoted a segment of your post because you stated berserkers have more damage mitigation than savages due to the HP requirement on savage buffs of all things. I can say with all honesty I've never seen anyone even attempt to make that argument. Nevermind savages having perma evade buff and 21-25% melee resists depending on spec available at all times . You then followed this up by saying you'd prefer to have a sidestun on your merc than access to anytime slam + guard.

Also, the entire discussion of class balance revolves around how classes perform relative to each other. It's the most viable reasoning there is.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:56 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Levi wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:47 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:26 PM
CLamoRR wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:15 PM
yikes.

i'll just leave it there

If you're trying to make a point by clipping a segment of my post you aren't doing a very good job .

Your entire claim to have Berserkers buffed is because Savages are more sought after.

How is that any form of viable reasoning?
He probably quoted a segment of your post because you stated berserkers have more damage mitigation than savages due to the HP requirement on savage buffs of all things. I can say with all honesty I've never seen anyone even attempt to make that argument. Nevermind savages having perma evade buff and 21-25% melee resists depending on spec available at all times . You then followed this up by saying you'd prefer to have a sidestun on your merc than access to anytime slam + guard.

Also, the entire discussion of class balance revolves around how classes perform relative to each other. It's the most viable reasoning there is.

Second part was my personal opinion. I've never been a fan of BM's/Merc's having access to 9s slams.

Yeah, if savages continually run all of their defensive buffs every rotation they're very difficult to damage but you have to constantly maintain them as a healer.

As far as how classes perform relative to each other, is this in terms of within realm or relative to archtypes? I can't stand when people try to get classes changed because their counterpart in the other two realms has X and Y and they only have Z. It's the main reason why the classes are so F'd up on Live. I hope this doesn't occur here.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:39 PM by Ardri

CLamoRR wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:23 PM
Ardri wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:18 PM
Or they could learn to play their class optimally. Quit spamming doublefrost on everything, use the back chain with a dd attached. Weapon swap to get 10-20% damage table bonus. Go max MoP like everyone else.

Exhibit A: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4596&p=28966#p28966

that doesn't really address any of the issues i brought up. a zerk could do all of that and still not be as good as a savage for dps. especially because a savage can do the same thing (use high growth rate positionals, swap dmg type for dmg increase).

My point is 95% of people playing a zerker refuse to do the things i posted in the link. They're just garbage players. A properly played zerker is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. They do less spike dps than a savage, but it's much more controlled dps with controlled vendo burst. Also, you can't sleep on their ability to backsnare people out of the fight. Also, zerk dual wield doesn't get completely shut down by a guard/dd like savage h2h (2h swing). The problem is hardly anyone plays to counter the savage by following him around with guard.

Instead of buffing a class that is pretty well balanced, maybe the solution is to nerf savages :O

Tue 26 Mar 2019 9:24 PM by cuuchulain79

The old 14 pt PF was also substantially better than the free PF here...which is a factor in zerker playstyle,

Honestly, saying zerkers need to always use the back chain isn't good advice. Yes, it's more DMG than DF, but there's also a 40 second bleed...people get healed...people get peeled...it's not always the right time for the back chain.

It's pretty funny that that means they're refusing to play how Ardri demands they do though

Tue 26 Mar 2019 9:33 PM by Jingo NZ

If they need help... a gentle salute to Berzerkers could be a self endo buff.
Make vendo give some endo.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 10:37 PM by SaintRon

Ceen wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:20 AM
There is a difference between classes that are faar behind all others and classes which perform slightly less efficient.
But yes let's address Warden and Berserker, no one invites them ever.

I play a Battle Warden and I got invites without asking. I pretty much just sit there.

I do think they need 2 spec points and shield spec though.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:20 PM by Ardri

cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 9:24 PM
The old 14 pt PF was also substantially better than the free PF here...which is a factor in zerker playstyle,

Honestly, saying zerkers need to always use the back chain isn't good advice. Yes, it's more DMG than DF, but there's also a 40 second bleed...people get healed...people get peeled...it's not always the right time for the back chain.

It's pretty funny that that means they're refusing to play how Ardri demands they do though

Did you miss the part where i said back snare people out of the fight? Otherwise yes, you prioritize the 3x backchain for the 1.25GR styles with 95dd attached to it.

But by all means keep being garbage and spamming your doublefrost 24/7

Wed 27 Mar 2019 6:00 PM by cuuchulain79

Yeah...cause I said spam DF 24/7...

I'm only saying zerks shouldn't always go for back chain unless they're confident they can drop the target...you know...like all good zerks have always done...

I think this concept is beyond Mel Gibson's comprehension.

Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:30 AM by Hedien

Ceen wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:20 AM
But yes let's address Warden and Berserker, no one invites them ever.

I always wonder how people can say that without having a previous look at the herald.
Efke, first rr of the server, is a warden. He is part of a top rvr group. No, warden do not need further buffing.

Zerk, on the other hand, needs buffing when compared with savage.
Sav dps > Zerk dps or burst.
Sav dps + evade / parry buff = much harder to peel. If Zerk beavermode, very easy to peel.
So less dps/avoidance and nothing else to show for.

I agree, either nerf sav or buff zerk. But I feel that sav damage should be lower than zerk due to its avoidance benefits.
Slightly reducing savage dps and/or increasing zerk damage, without modifying abilities would be simpler in my opinion.

Saturday

Tue 9 Feb 2021 10:11 PM by ulf

+1

Wed 10 Feb 2021 10:33 AM by byron

I've reached RR6L5 on my zerk with a lot of efforts (and deaths

) , playing only in small or 8vs8. I don't want to criticize any playstyle but for sure zerging with a tank is very boring for me, I prefer watching Netflix

I choose Midgard and a Zerk since it was my main char when I played on old live servers (so I'm quite nostalgic) and I love dual wield warrorrs in the fantasy word. During Toa a Zerk was quite powerfull : assist, charge, vendo mode and he was able to deal quite a lot of damage, on Phoenix I found that the situation is the opposite : average damage (a part of the last style on the back chain styles tanks to the DD) , a lot of casters as opponents than can perma sprint forever, chain snared forever without any defense on it, a lot of defensive RAs to take to try to survive to the debuff assist train, etc...
I think that the Zerk is not broken but there are some game mechanisms in this server that penalize light tanks, especially in Midgard (I wrote them in the class balance #4 thread). The result is that the people I play with started to ask me to roll another class and now my zerk is sadly quite retired.

Fri 12 Feb 2021 5:12 PM by Nephamael

1. Give zerks access to the New Frontiers version of Charge. This would help them massively in the "peel war" meta-game where they are currently helpless against any shield tank worth their salt (including Mercs/BMs). Adjust the reuse timer as needed.

If that's not an option, perhaps a speed burst/cc-immunity could be added to the Berserk ability to promote more tactical use instead of strictly burst-dmg.

The current pbt peel meta is difficult for all offtanks, that were used to be extremely glued to their targets.

I completely disagree with charge ofc.

I think it would be interesting to give veno snare/root immunity, but only if 3ple wield get's something similar. And defnitely no speed burst.

Remember, Zerker is the most sticky of all melees - highest weaponskill of all offtanks - longest snares of all offtanks.

Fri 12 Feb 2021 5:33 PM by Nephamael

I always wonder how people can say that without having a previous look at the herald.
Efke, first rr of the server, is a warden. He is part of a top rvr group. No, warden do not need further buffing.

Just to make sure noone gets a wrong impression about the facts.

Warden is the weakest and most undesireable to play class in the game, next to Friar.
If Hib groups could group theurgs or rms for pbt they would do it 10 out of 10 times, if they could group aug healers for body resist they would do it 10 out of 10 times - if Albs could group Shamans or Druids for heat/cold/matter resists they would do it just the same.

Main reason is both classes lack any kind of ranged cast rupt and or cc and the utility they bring besides resists is ridiculously low.

The Phoenix team tried to address this by adding nearsight cure, but so far that's all and surely not enough.

While shamy is in a super awesome state now, having: Specuffs, single and aoe ranged rupt and cc, ichor, resists, disease and nearsight cure!!! And all can be obtained at once with the 42 enhance 20 heal 27 cave spec.

Compare it to what Friar brings:

Resist, Basebuffs, ns cure, long sidesnare

Warden:

Resist, Pbt, Basebuffs, ns cure, short sidesnare

all3 classes can single heal, the friar has some grp heal power.

What can we do about this? We can make friar and warden true melee threats working on high dps with high style spec or we have to give both classes ranged cc/rupt.

--------------------------------------------

Zerk, on the other hand, needs buffing when compared with savage.
Sav dps > Zerk dps or burst.
Sav dps + evade / parry buff = much harder to peel. If Zerk beavermode, very easy to peel.
So less dps/avoidance and nothing else to show for.

I agree, either nerf sav or buff zerk. But I feel that sav damage should be lower than zerk due to its avoidance benefits.
Slightly reducing savage dps and/or increasing zerk damage, without modifying abilities would be simpler in my opinion.

Savage only does high dps on unguarded targets (svg has abyssmal weaponskill and zerk has the highest offtank weaponskill ingame + defense penetration).

Savage is easier to blow up when stunned or by casters, as he drains his own HP constantly.

Savage dmg gets dramatically reduced as soon as you face him and backpaddle instead of running away giving him perfect positionals.
If the enemy players play bad, that doesnt make a class op, lol.

Savage if h2h spec has no stickiness on target, 1 peel and he can never catch up again.

If you play in a high peel meta zerk is surely the better choice to keep someone on target, just got to use your snares bro.
And in a high guard meta zerk is the one hitting thru defense to still kill a target, not svg.

Fri 12 Feb 2021 6:16 PM by kraz333

The thing live did to really ruin the game was give very off tank/tank the same thing. thats the class you dont like it play a savage but dont change the class it has many unique things that separate it. Maybe give them the damage they deserve but giving them snares isnt the answer, you want a side snare to merc or a bm. also they have a side snare in hammer

Sun 14 Feb 2021 3:45 AM by Nephamael

The thing live did to really ruin the game was give very off tank/tank the same thing. thats the class you dont like it play a savage but dont change the class it has many unique things that separate it. Maybe give them the damage they deserve but giving them snares isnt the answer, you want a side snare to merc or a bm. also they have a side snare in hammer

just spec hammer and have the best backsnare in the game with the highest growthrate too, lol + a sidesnare followup with 0.69

BM back 0.65

Merc back 0.65

Mid Hammer: back: 0.74!!! at 23s snare !!! that's 1s short of double snare duration vs the other 2 realms

Sat 20 Feb 2021 3:07 AM by themaskofkoro

Would be interesting to see the light tank charge get a speed bonus without the cc immunity.

Thu 25 Feb 2021 3:26 PM by ulf

berserker need the stun side like other realms

Fri 26 Feb 2021 7:42 AM by Rov

ulf wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Feb 2021 3:26 PM
berserker need the stun side like other realms

Hibernia only has side stun though

But i agree a 4-5 second side stun and a 2 part chain for aurora borealis would change ALOT for zerkers.

Fri 26 Feb 2021 8:36 AM by byron

Light tanks (and not only Zerkers) are damage dealer, they don't bring nothing to the group a part of damage but the damage is not so high (debuff train hits a lot harder) and they have problem to stay near the target since they are the target of many form of CCs (casted and melee). To try to mitigate this, they need to use snare styles as well and be a bad copy of a peeler. In addition specific for the Zerk : he is forced to use hammer styles since LA styles don't have any form of snare so often they can't use his LA styles, especially the back styles chain that is the only one that do some damage (the last style of the three, thanks to the proc).
I don't want to be pessimist but I think nothing will be done for light tanks and specific for Zerk that now probably is the worst of the three. Nerfing back AoM but not PD is a way to see the direction of this server.