Level 50 Ranger Bow Damage - Phoenix Freeshard

Was just hoping some level 50 Rangers could tell me what their 30+ bow damage is out in RVR. Ball park estimates on the following and assuming your using the slowest bow.

When you land an opening crit shot on a caster what does it leave them at? say 25% life left? or not that good? can you kill them with a follow up shot? or is 3+ shots?

Healers, Cleric, support: when using the arrows they vuln to..... crit +3 or 4 shots?

Thanks for the info

Thu 14 Feb 2019 10:45 PM by the_sylvan

I'm *almost* done templating my ranger and he's hitting for around 690 with crit shot. Against a temp'd and buffed healer, crits are usually in the ballpark of 1/3 hp. 3-4 followup shots will put them down.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 4:38 PM by poopiedoggie

I'm RR4 temped. 35+ bow.

I usually crit a caster anywhere from 500-800. I will either 1 shot them or pretty close. Usually 1 follow up takes them down. This is assuming they either don't have BT up or I penetrate.

Against most other classes I hit for about 450-600 and it takes close to half of the HP. 3+ shots takes them down.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 4:47 PM by keen

If I compare this DMG to dmg claimed in the 24 page QQ thread...lol

Tue 19 Feb 2019 5:04 PM by Tillbeast

poopiedoggie wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 4:38 PM
I'm RR4 temped. 35+ bow.

I usually crit a caster anywhere from 500-800. I will either 1 shot them or pretty close. Usually 1 follow up takes them down. This is assuming they either don't have BT up or I penetrate.

Against most other classes I hit for about 450-600 and it takes close to half of the HP. 3+ shots takes them down.

Then rangers need a serious nerf. As a fully templated hunter with 35 bow it takes 4 or 5 shots to down a caster ( although I am normally dead before I cast 3rd due to qc spell interrupting me and gaining them initiative) . Against anything else crits are rarely above 350 and anything wearing studded equivalent or more can get into melee or run out of range before they dead. Maybe 5.4 bow speed is 200 damage difference but if it is so its a bit off balance and a big advantage for rangers. At moment I am reduced to hunting xpers for my rps as fighting anything above rr2 is suicide solo.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 1:55 PM by poopiedoggie

Are you temped? Are you buffed?

I am fully buffed and temped. The large 400-600 hits are on casters crit shot. Yes, they can get ahead of us with a well played QC which is why I'm usually making sure I'm far enough away so I can move away, restealth and re-engage. As a hunter you should have this easier, you have a pet that can interrupt a caster. So you time your pet with your CS, they QC cc on you, you purge, they are interrupted by the pet. You shoot them down, or run if that is what the situation calls for.

Regular shots are 250-400 depending on the armor/level/buffs.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 5:51 PM by semadin

Crit shots on casters miss for me 9 times out of 10 😄

It’s difficult to track numbers like this because it’s hard to tell how other people are geared.

At 40+13, usually crit in the 600s on what I think are reasonably to welll geared people (provided I pick the right arrows).

There are a lot of people running around without max resists though. Crits of 700+ and normal shots of 350 happen regularly, but that’s seeing almost no resist to the damage.

Sometimes I’ll see crits in the 500s and below. My assumption is these are people using all the available buffs in the game and having their AF maxed out this way (base and spec). My understanding is physical damage here gets wrecked by AF buffs.

Bow damage doesn’t change much past 51 composite. So you can safely aim for that and get basically max effectiveness from your bow

Thu 14 Mar 2019 6:55 PM by Emeryc

There is a lot of misleading information out there on this topic.

Yes, you can 1-shot greens with your critshot. I am fully temped, RR4, 49 (35+14) bow and I can 1-shot blue casters once in a while.

You will never 1-shot a lvl 50 caster... ever. You will never penetrate a lvl 50 caster bubble... ever. Against a well temped lvl 50 caster, if you happen to land a critshot you may hit for 500ish. You will never hit for 800 on a lvl 50 well temped caster... ever. And 1 follow up will never take them down... ever.

Against a well temped, well played caster you will lose a majority of the time. The times you don't lose, you will typically not earn a kill... the caster will escape and choose not to engage you. This is the largest problem with Archery... the balance between Archers and Casters is non-existent. Casters have an overflowing bag of tricks to defeat Archery. As the Devs have stated, it is a very difficult thing to balance, but right now Casters have a monumental advantage over Archers, certainly in a 1v1 setting.

Do not misunderstand what I'm saying... I am NOT saying Archer Classes are gimp. I'm saying ARCHERY, as a spec line, is underperforming. There are frequent posters, some even here in this very thread, who fail to differentiate between ARCHERS as an archetype class and ARCHERY as a spec line (and even others who conflate Archers, Assassins and Stealthers.)

Fri 15 Mar 2019 4:03 PM by Sepphiroth75

Emeryc wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Mar 2019 6:55 PM
There is a lot of misleading information out there on this topic.

Yes, you can 1-shot greens with your critshot. I am fully temped, RR4, 49 (35+14) bow and I can 1-shot blue casters once in a while.

You will never 1-shot a lvl 50 caster... ever. You will never penetrate a lvl 50 caster bubble... ever. Against a well temped lvl 50 caster, if you happen to land a critshot you may hit for 500ish. You will never hit for 800 on a lvl 50 well temped caster... ever. And 1 follow up will never take them down... ever.

Against a well temped, well played caster you will lose a majority of the time. The times you don't lose, you will typically not earn a kill... the caster will escape and choose not to engage you. This is the largest problem with Archery... the balance between Archers and Casters is non-existent. Casters have an overflowing bag of tricks to defeat Archery. As the Devs have stated, it is a very difficult thing to balance, but right now Casters have a monumental advantage over Archers, certainly in a 1v1 setting.

Do not misunderstand what I'm saying... I am NOT saying Archer Classes are gimp. I'm saying ARCHERY, as a spec line, is underperforming. There are frequent posters, some even here in this very thread, who fail to differentiate between ARCHERS as an archetype class and ARCHERY as a spec line (and even others who conflate Archers, Assassins and Stealthers.)

Archery over 35 is a huge waste at the moment. They need to update levels 40-45-50 to something worth while.

Fri 15 Mar 2019 5:33 PM by Leandrys

Well, it's always the same problem : archers are stealthers, it means if someone makes the mistake to boost their bow damages, you'll end up with groups or archers in /assist OS'ing people from impossible to predict positions.

Archers shouldn't have receive the same stealth than assassins, maybe they shouldn't even have received any stealth at all, instead they should have more defensive of offensive capacities, but we just can't "buff" basically archer's damages or FZ will end into an arrow's inferno.

Idk, higher 1H WS for scout and better styles, much better pet for hunter with insta buff and capacities and 2h damages bonus for spear, etc...

If we let them the stealth, we can't buff for free the ranged DPS beyond scout's actuel dps, same thing goes for burst. Maybe a rework for Penetrating arrow ?

Fri 15 Mar 2019 8:09 PM by semadin

Boosting damage above 35 doesn't sound like a good idea. Bow at mod 51 already hits hard enough. The problem comes in that due to lack of utility in handling a variety of situations with bow, there's no value in putting more than 35 points in it. You need to put those points elsewhere, or you gimp yourself for...maybe 3% more damage.

Speccing higher in bow - and thus sacrificing abilities in other lines - should result in some other benefits to counter the loss. Things like actually penetrating self casted bladeturn, getting through shields/evade, incorporating long shot / volley into higher spec, all are a way of providing value to putting your spec points there without making damage over the top.

Fri 15 Mar 2019 8:32 PM by Emeryc

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Mar 2019 5:33 PM
Well, it's always the same problem : archers are stealthers, it means if someone makes the mistake to boost their bow damages, you'll end up with groups or archers in /assist OS'ing people from impossible to predict positions.

Archers shouldn't have receive the same stealth than assassins, maybe they shouldn't even have received any stealth at all, instead they should have more defensive of offensive capacities, but we just can't "buff" basically archer's damages or FZ will end into an arrow's inferno.

Idk, higher 1H WS for scout and better styles, much better pet for hunter with insta buff and capacities and 2h damages bonus for spear, etc...

If we let them the stealth, we can't buff for free the ranged DPS beyond scout's actuel dps, same thing goes for burst. Maybe a rework for Penetrating arrow ?

I see this all the time... I agree that just buffing Archery without some thought is a mistake. But can you explain exactly why "groups of archers in /assist" shouldn't be able to kill someone? (I assume "OS'ing" means 1-shotting?) Groups of melee in /assist will DPS you down in .00004 seconds. Certainly groups of casters in /assist will DPS you down even more quickly. FFS, groups of Bards in /assist will DPS you down... why shouldn't archers be able to do this?

In every thread regarding Archery, other classes suggest buffing stealth (or nerfing stealth, as you have suggested) or buffing something unrelated to the Archery lines... this is exactly what should NOT happen. I do not advocate for Archers to be melee masters... that's what pisses people off about Assassins.

I wouldn't mind seeing an additional buff to Archers abilities based on high bow spec, such as increased stealth/movement speed when speccing 40/45/50 in stealth. Something like this would:
a) not increase bow damage, so no caster whines
b) increase archer survivability WITHOUT increasing killing power in the "stealth wars." (I don't really care about this part, but others do.)
c) give archers more mobility in larger RvR encounters, thus providing them more utility in a group setting WITHOUT increasing DPS
d) most importantly, it will not increase the overall efficacy of melee specced Rangers and Hunters as it simply wouldn't be available to those characters without sacrificing speccing highly in the melee lines.

Fri 15 Mar 2019 9:31 PM by Leandrys

Simple : they are stealth and ranged. R A N G E D.

A pure melee as you note have to come at close range, even 10 melee or 100, they'll have to come at close range. Give an important bump in DPS to scouts and you'll have multiple of them instakilling you at 2200 units, not 120, not, 2200. You'll never be able to play solo visible again in FZ. It's that simple : never. Remember archers when casters didn't have PB on Daoc ? : Unplayable. "Oh look, there, a clothy, everybody presses 1 touch !!!" *clothy insta dies for the 100th time in 1 hour*.

So an archer using his bow is a caster in daoc, nothing else. It has to remain weak, there's nothing else to understand, you cannot have stealthed powerful casters, it's not possible.

Stealth is the problem, it will always be the problem, they will always have it, there's no solution to bow's damages, it has to be weak or overpowered, and weak is much better for the game than OP, there's no balance possible because of Mythic's original faulty design with stealth and archers.

You know, now we've reached the end of daoc's day, let's be honnest, Mythic had no idea at all of what they were doing with game's balance, and archers are one of the best examples we have.

So i'll tell you what is going to come, Hunters will have several tweaks and buffs because it's just poopy in its current state (yeah, yeah, we all know that one guy who'se hunter is decent in RVR, but let's be honnest, 95% of them are just RP's bags), scout (aka : "if you're purge is up i die after miserable minutes of hopeless fight behind my weak shield"

just two of them and ranger will remain the same, or almost so, that's all, there can't be miracle, Phoenix's team can not re-createb the game from scratch.

Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:00 PM by waffel

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Mar 2019 9:31 PM
Simple : they are stealth and ranged. R A N G E D.

A pure melee as you note have to come at close range, even 10 melee or 100, they'll have to come at close range. Give an important bump in DPS to scouts and you'll have multiple of them instakilling you at 2200 units, not 120, not, 2200. You'll never be able to play solo visible again in FZ. It's that simple : never. Remember archers when casters didn't have PB on Daoc ? : Unplayable. "Oh look, there, a clothy, everybody presses 1 touch !!!" *clothy insta dies for the 100th time in 1 hour*.

So an archer using his bow is a caster in daoc, nothing else. It has to remain weak, there's nothing else to understand, you cannot have stealthed powerful casters, it's not possible.

Stealth is the problem, it will always be the problem, they will always have it, there's no solution to bow's damages, it has to be weak or overpowered, and weak is much better for the game than OP, there's no balance possible because of Mythic's original faulty design with stealth and archers.

You know, now we've reached the end of daoc's day, let's be honnest, Mythic had no idea at all of what they were doing with game's balance, and archers are one of the best examples we have.

So i'll tell you what is going to come, Hunters will have several tweaks and buffs because it's just poopy in its current state (yeah, yeah, we all know that one guy who'se hunter is decent in RVR, but let's be honnest, 95% of them are just RP's bags), scout (aka : "if you're purge is up i die after miserable minutes of hopeless fight behind my weak shield" just two of them and ranger will remain the same, or almost so, that's all, there can't be miracle, Phoenix's team can not re-createb the game from scratch.

What RR is your archer on Phoenix? A non answer and I’m assuming you don’t have one.

Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:30 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

People say 35 bow is good but your weapon skill will be lower, I am at 43 bow and I think it's absolutely the sweet spot in terms of a sniper build. People can evade/block shots and whatnot so it's worth taking into consideration having some extra weapon skill. Also my advice to people who are doing a sniper spec is to stack bow speed ra's, very fast bow speed == gg. I am at 2.8 second normal shots with mastery of archery 9 and aug quick 6 and if I can freely shoot at people they get rekt.

Sat 16 Mar 2019 4:21 AM by noflex

I used to be 40 bow

Just respec to 35 and tested both on dummies with normal shots

With 35 bow spec I shoot exactly 8dmg less per shot with 5.2 speed galla bow on hib.. this is with 48path red d/q self buff and combined pot

Using a 4.5 speed bow it’s only 6 dmg less per shot from 40 to 35 spec

And 4.0 speed bow is 5 dmg per shot less

So I assume having 45 spec bow would just double the numbers I got from testing.. 50 bow spec triple the numbers

It’s absolutely not worth going higher than 35 IMO

... also crit shot dmg loss ranged from 10-30 depending on speed of bow I tested (4.0, 4.5, 5.2)

Sat 16 Mar 2019 6:52 AM by Emeryc

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Mar 2019 9:31 PM
Simple : they are stealth and ranged. R A N G E D.

A pure melee as you note have to come at close range, even 10 melee or 100, they'll have to come at close range. Give an important bump in DPS to scouts and you'll have multiple of them instakilling you at 2200 units, not 120, not, 2200. You'll never be able to play solo visible again in FZ. It's that simple : never. Remember archers when casters didn't have PB on Daoc ? : Unplayable. "Oh look, there, a clothy, everybody presses 1 touch !!!" *clothy insta dies for the 100th time in 1 hour*.

So much crap here, it's hard to sift through it all.
1) You are complaining that a solo dies to a group... seriously? Somehow, the fact that the group is stealthed makes it worse? Solos should expect to die to multiples... it's that simple.
2) I do remember when casters didn't have BT... it was before casters learned to run with a shield tank with /guard, use /face and quickcast (in fact, it may have been before /face was live), and before the general player base learned a thousand other things about the game. This was one of Mythic's biggest mistakes, imo: they massively overcorrected and made Casters unkillable by Archers.

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Mar 2019 9:31 PM
So an archer using his bow is a caster in daoc, nothing else. It has to remain weak, there's nothing else to understand, you cannot have stealthed powerful casters, it's not possible.

Glad you brought this up. Let's see how that whole "archer using his bow is a caster" thing works...
Things Casters have that Archers don't:
-Bubbles
-Quickcast and MoC
-Instas
-Easily reachable cast speed cap of 1.5 seconds with NO LOSS OF DPS on a per cast basis.
-Utility in the form of Mezzes, Stuns, Roots, Snares, Nearsight, AoE, PBAoE, Debuffs, Speed (in some cases), Disease, DoTs, and myriad other things
Things Archers have the Casters don't:
-Slightly longer range
-Stealth
-The ability to have their "spells" blocked, evaded, missed and fumbled
-No way to break the interrupt cycle once it's started
-Severe loss of DPS when using RF, which is the only way to approach cap speed with bow. Additionally, this requires 35 spec in the bowline.
-Reinforced/Studded Armor

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Mar 2019 9:31 PM
Stealth is the problem, it will always be the problem, they will always have it, there's no solution to bow's damages, it has to be weak or overpowered, and weak is much better for the game than OP, there's no balance possible because of Mythic's original faulty design with stealth and archers.

You know, now we've reached the end of daoc's day, let's be honnest, Mythic had no idea at all of what they were doing with game's balance, and archers are one of the best examples we have.

So i'll tell you what is going to come, Hunters will have several tweaks and buffs because it's just poopy in its current state (yeah, yeah, we all know that one guy who'se hunter is decent in RVR, but let's be honnest, 95% of them are just RP's bags), scout (aka : "if you're purge is up i die after miserable minutes of hopeless fight behind my weak shield" just two of them and ranger will remain the same, or almost so, that's all, there can't be miracle, Phoenix's team can not re-createb the game from scratch.

Just to be clear here... you are admitting you believe Archers are crap, yet you don't want them buffed. Interesting... this is exactly what most of the other complaints about archers sound like.

Sat 16 Mar 2019 6:18 PM by semadin

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:30 PM
People say 35 bow is good but your weapon skill will be lower, I am at 43 bow and I think it's absolutely the sweet spot in terms of a sniper build. People can evade/block shots and whatnot so it's worth taking into consideration having some extra weapon skill. Also my advice to people who are doing a sniper spec is to stack bow speed ra's, very fast bow speed == gg. I am at 2.8 second normal shots with mastery of archery 9 and aug quick 6 and if I can freely shoot at people they get rekt.

I believe weaponskill has always shown a minimal impact on defense penetration, so I think it's highly likely you aren't getting the benefit you think you are.

http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/weaponskill_defense_piercing.html

I know on live it's irrelevant (and while archery mechanics are different it can still be blocked/evaded).

As a side not, you might consider weighing your RAs more towards aug quick. Somewhere on the forums someone tested showing that speed improvements from mastery and quick are about equal, and quick also improves your evade and melee attack speed.

Sat 16 Mar 2019 9:39 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

I tried both actually and mastery of archery gave me better bow speed

Btw with aug quick 9 you still barely ever evade with dumpy evade 3 so ya that's not really gonna help anyone with evade 3 ;(

Sun 17 Mar 2019 10:26 PM by Horus

311 dex 5.5 speed bow RR5, 44(+15) bow. Fully templated.

I've never come close to crit 1 shotting a level 50 caster. 3 shots minimum to take them down. I'd say a 580-700 crit shot is normal. Gotta make sure you drop the bubble 1st so really it is 4 shots at least.

Damage goes way up though as the level of your target goes does down.

Mon 18 Mar 2019 7:56 PM by cere2

So I keep hearing about upcoming changes to archery classes. Post about it back in beginning of Feb. Where they at?
Bow damage IMO is fine, problem is, cant even use it vs sin's, which is usually 50% of what we have to fight. Archers have to train bow, that's useless when your instantly put into melee combat because assassins always see you first. So how about remedy, make assassin's trained skill worthless against archers for a period. Even trade off it seems to me.
Or, get rid of added detection range for assassin's. make both 250.
Or, bring MOS back as an RA with the added detection range.
Or, give archers some way to use a bow at melee range at least once...PB Shot.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 9:03 PM by Leandrys

Emeryc wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Mar 2019 6:52 AM
Just to be clear here... you are admitting you believe Archers are crap, yet you don't want them buffed. Interesting... this is exactly what most of the other complaints about archers sound like.

Strawman, in particular this part, let's repeat myself as it's needed to be made :

Bow can't not strongly be buffed, only bow, nothing else. You do not want stealthed RM. really, you do not.

Now, can you understand that ? Need even less words ? Just tell me.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 12:49 AM by Emeryc

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 9:03 PM
Emeryc wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Mar 2019 6:52 AM
Just to be clear here... you are admitting you believe Archers are crap, yet you don't want them buffed. Interesting... this is exactly what most of the other complaints about archers sound like.

Strawman, in particular this part, let's repeat myself as it's needed to be made :

Bow can't not strongly be buffed, only bow, nothing else. You do not want stealthed RM. really, you do not.

Now, can you understand that ? Need even less words ? Just tell me.

I don't need you to use less words... I need the words you actually use to make sense.
Please refer to my previous post comparing Casters and Archers... buffing bow will in no way create a "stealthed RM." That's just silly... and, btw, THAT'S a strawman fallacy.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:18 AM by Shadowblade1

I haven't seen much said about archer RAs. MCL? Raging power? These are in the ranger and hunters portfolio. Drop the power stuff. Hell, drop wild minion from hunter. Give archers access to vanish. Why not? Rework their RAs. Something like this may go a long way.

Thu 21 Mar 2019 12:10 AM by waffel

cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 7:56 PM
So I keep hearing about upcoming changes to archery classes. Post about it back in beginning of Feb. Where they at?

Last update I saw from a dev is that they have quite a few ideas for archers. But, since they're too scared and unsure on what to try, they're taking the stance of "welp, we're not sure what to do so we 'll just do nothing. Now, lets work on assassins some more and maybe friar"

Thu 21 Mar 2019 8:02 AM by qq6

give archers % to penetrate self casted bubble, 20% would be cool... ;o

Thu 21 Mar 2019 7:19 PM by Ardri

Bow damage is fine. I can't believe how many people cry about this on the forums.

I will say this though, stealth vs stealth detection range could be tweaked to help archers. Imo leave assassins detection alone, but make archer detection 100-150 greater than assassins. That way archers have a slight chance of just moving away rather than just getting destroyed 100% of the time. You would never have an advantage against a moving assassin. BUT, if you find a lazy assassin standing still, you can get 1 crit shot off before immediately being forced into melee range.

Maybe camo would help. No to truesight as it was ridiculous. No to insane MOS detection radius as you would just get popped 100% of the time and get zerg'd down.

Sun 24 Mar 2019 2:08 PM by Eidorf

Please allow me to give you a caster perspective.

I often get hit for 750 through bubble, at a range way beyond /face, then follow-up hits for 200 every second until i'm dead. This is on my always pot buffed templated Ani out in the frontier.

IMHO archers need nothing at this point, if they expect to do this to heavier classes, no... just no.

To help them fight against assassins they should not be boosted, its assassins that should be nerfed, they are over the top in every regard.

Sun 24 Mar 2019 3:17 PM by semadin

Eidorf wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Mar 2019 2:08 PM
Please allow me to give you a caster perspective.

I often get hit for 750 through bubble, at a range way beyond /face, then follow-up hits for 200 every second until i'm dead. This is on my always pot buffed templated Ani out in the frontier.

IMHO archers need nothing at this point, if they expect to do this to heavier classes, no... just no.

To help them fight against assassins they should not be boosted, its assassins that should be nerfed, they are over the top in every regard.

Penetrate doesn’t work through self casted bladeturn. So perhaps you are misinterpreting some experiences?

Sun 24 Mar 2019 5:39 PM by Cadebrennus

Eidorf wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Mar 2019 2:08 PM
Please allow me to give you a caster perspective.

I often get hit for 750 through bubble, at a range way beyond /face, then follow-up hits for 200 every second until i'm dead. This is on my always pot buffed templated Ani out in the frontier.

IMHO archers need nothing at this point, if they expect to do this to heavier classes, no... just no.

To help them fight against assassins they should not be boosted, its assassins that should be nerfed, they are over the top in every regard.

/face has a longer range than even a Scout's range with the longest distance arrows.

The /face command was originally put in game as the very first Archer nerf because people were whining about their unbuffed Casters getting killed by botted Archers. If you're dying to an Archer at this stage in the game you're doing something very very wrong.

Sun 24 Mar 2019 11:53 PM by Milchschnidde

Archer need an escape skill similar to melee assassins, at least a short duration speed even to stealthers.
Not a purge but basicly a skill that remove cc and make you cc imune(like light tank charge)
Archer should get a skill on high stealth to reduce theire stealth appearance, as long they are in a sniping stance until they atack/move, this counts for all stealther classes.

Mon 25 Mar 2019 7:00 AM by Emeryc

Eidorf wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Mar 2019 2:08 PM
Please allow me to give you a caster perspective.

I often get hit for 750 through bubble, at a range way beyond /face, then follow-up hits for 200 every second until i'm dead. This is on my always pot buffed templated Ani out in the frontier.

IMHO archers need nothing at this point, if they expect to do this to heavier classes, no... just no.

To help them fight against assassins they should not be boosted, its assassins that should be nerfed, they are over the top in every regard.

Please allow me to give you an Archer's perspective: Everything you just said is bullsh*t. No one is penetrating your bubbles since Archers can't penetrate self casted bubbles of equal or higher level. And no one is hitting you every second since the cap speed is 1.5 seconds. And no one is hitting you for 750 if you are temped with max resists and AF, especially if you have your ABS buff up.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 4:35 PM by waffel

Eidorf wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Mar 2019 2:08 PM
Please allow me to give you a caster perspective.

I often get hit for 750 through bubble, at a range way beyond /face, then follow-up hits for 200 every second until i'm dead. This is on my always pot buffed templated Ani out in the frontier.

IMHO archers need nothing at this point, if they expect to do this to heavier classes, no... just no.

To help them fight against assassins they should not be boosted, its assassins that should be nerfed, they are over the top in every regard.

This couldn't be any more wrong. What is your class, level, RR? Are you tempd? Do you have /face bound to a hotkey? Are you using buffed?

Here is what happened:
Your bladeturn and both shields dropped and you didn't notice. More than likely your buffpot dropped too. Archer crits you and then rapid fires you at capped 1.5 speed and you get wrecked. You probably don't even know about /face and you definitely don't have it bound, so the archer could have been 1000 way, or 2000 away, it didn't matter.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:57 PM by Leandrys

You're wrong, archers have a chance to pen animist's bubble, happened to me once, like 3 weeks ago, pretty scary but i've been checking multiple times and shown the log at the time, and the same did happen next day to a friend.

Notice their bubble is a bit different from normal caster's ones, don't know if it's intended or not but they have a small chance to get through, didn't play her in rvr for days now, don't know if that's stil the case, but no change logs, so i guess not.

About the "you don't even know how to /face", don't be a jerk, scouts can shoot you from distances impossible to /face instantly with slope's bonus and the only thing you can do is to check arrow' position on your body and chose to run in that direction or on the opposite one if you think you can be quickly safe, you're making many terrible assumptions in a way that looks very natural for you, kinda awkward to read.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 8:24 PM by waffel

It is quite interesting a few random people say "I had my bubble pierced by a crit shot!" yet there has been absolutely zero proof... hmm. No screenshots or anything.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 6:34 AM by Cadebrennus

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:57 PM
You're wrong, archers have a chance to pen animist's bubble, happened to me once, like 3 weeks ago, pretty scary but i've been checking multiple times and shown the log at the time, and the same did happen next day to a friend.

Notice their bubble is a bit different from normal caster's ones, don't know if it's intended or not but they have a small chance to get through, didn't play her in rvr for days now, don't know if that's stil the case, but no change logs, so i guess not.

About the "you don't even know how to /face", don't be a jerk, scouts can shoot you from distances impossible to /face instantly with slope's bonus and the only thing you can do is to check arrow' position on your body and chose to run in that direction or on the opposite one if you think you can be quickly safe, you're making many terrible assumptions in a way that looks very natural for you, kinda awkward to read.

/face was the very first counter to Archery that was put in game due to people whining about botted Archers killing their unbuffed characters. This is why /face has a greater range than Archery does.

TLDR;
You are wrong about /face.

Sat 30 Mar 2019 7:32 PM by Emeryc

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:57 PM
You're wrong, archers have a chance to pen animist's bubble, happened to me once, like 3 weeks ago, pretty scary but i've been checking multiple times and shown the log at the time, and the same did happen next day to a friend.

Notice their bubble is a bit different from normal caster's ones, don't know if it's intended or not but they have a small chance to get through, didn't play her in rvr for days now, don't know if that's stil the case, but no change logs, so i guess not.

About the "you don't even know how to /face", don't be a jerk, scouts can shoot you from distances impossible to /face instantly with slope's bonus and the only thing you can do is to check arrow' position on your body and chose to run in that direction or on the opposite one if you think you can be quickly safe, you're making many terrible assumptions in a way that looks very natural for you, kinda awkward to read.

Looks like someone is at it again. There is a difference between the lvl 19 Bladeturn in the Verdant base line and the Bladeturn bomber in the Verdant spec line: the former is "self cast" which can NOT be penetrated by an arrow from an equal or lower level archer, the latter is not self cast and can be penetrated with Penetrating Arrow I or II.

Sat 30 Mar 2019 8:08 PM by waffel

That guys post is wrong about his self-casted BT getting popped (was his bomber BT) and about the range of face. 18 years of this game being out and people still don’t understand basic game mechanics yet continue to spread misinformation. Embarrassing.

Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:07 AM by Cadebrennus

waffel wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Mar 2019 8:08 PM
That guys post is wrong about his self-casted BT getting popped (was his bomber BT) and about the range of face. 18 years of this game being out and people still don’t understand basic game mechanics yet continue to spread misinformation. Embarrassing.

Correcting and re-correcting bad information time and time again turned into a full time job for me on this server. It's one of the reasons I got burned out here.

Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:09 PM by Leandrys

Emeryc wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Mar 2019 7:32 PM
Leandrys wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:57 PM
Looks like someone is at it again. There is a difference between the lvl 19 Bladeturn in the Verdant base line and the Bladeturn bomber in the Verdant spec line: the former is "self cast" which can NOT be penetrated by an arrow from an equal or lower level archer, the latter is not self cast and can be penetrated with Penetrating Arrow I or II.

My animist is arbo/creep, so... Too bad
. Nice try but you should wait to know every details before going for personal attacks.

Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:40 AM by Cadebrennus

Leandrys wrote: ↑
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:09 PM
Emeryc wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Mar 2019 7:32 PM
Leandrys wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:57 PM
Looks like someone is at it again. There is a difference between the lvl 19 Bladeturn in the Verdant base line and the Bladeturn bomber in the Verdant spec line: the former is "self cast" which can NOT be penetrated by an arrow from an equal or lower level archer, the latter is not self cast and can be penetrated with Penetrating Arrow I or II.

My animist is arbo/creep, so... Too bad
. Nice try but you should wait to know every details before going for personal attacks.

If you are personally called out as wrong when you are so very wrong about something it isn't a personal attack. It just means you are wrong about something.

Mon 1 Apr 2019 4:19 AM by Leandrys

Except i've proven each time i wasn't wrong, he's just trolling and chasing my messages on board, do not take care.

Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:03 PM by dbeattie71

waffel wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 8:24 PM
It is quite interesting a few random people say "I had my bubble pierced by a crit shot!" yet there has been absolutely zero proof... hmm. No screenshots or anything.

Like Bigfoot 😀

Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:06 PM by SaintRon

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Mar 2019 11:53 PM
Archer need an escape skill similar to melee assassins, at least a short duration speed even to stealthers.
Not a purge but basicly a skill that remove cc and make you cc imune(like light tank charge)
Archer should get a skill on high stealth to reduce theire stealth appearance, as long they are in a sniping stance until they atack/move, this counts for all stealther classes.

Back flip stealth!

Mon 1 Apr 2019 10:04 PM by Milchschnidde

SaintRon wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:06 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Mar 2019 11:53 PM
Archer need an escape skill similar to melee assassins, at least a short duration speed even to stealthers.
Not a purge but basicly a skill that remove cc and make you cc imune(like light tank charge)
Archer should get a skill on high stealth to reduce theire stealth appearance, as long they are in a sniping stance until they atack/move, this counts for all stealther classes.

Back flip stealth!

I did not mean a vanish, the skill should increase the speed, no instant stealth maybe with a delay for stealth but it should remove snares, roots, (mini sos), some small escape skill. At least i did mean it should bring some value to skill more into stealth, some advanced stealth investing more then 40+ into stealth is currently a waste.... all stealther should get an instant skill while stealthy “escape threat“ a small speed buff while in
stealth. Similar rules to vanish you cannot use the weapon for a few seconds but no purge or cc immunity just speedbuff to run away...

Mon 1 Apr 2019 10:15 PM by stinsfire

To anyone saying you cannot penetrate Self-BT: Have yout tried longshot? It penetrates and removes self BT! You can even combine critshot and longshot and you have a self-bt penetrating crit shot with a cooldown of 5 minutes.

I have asked multiple times in ingame chat if that is a feature or bug and people told me it was always like this in classic. And I think it should stay like this.. there is a reason new archery critshot bypasses BT (but doesnt remove it). Either keep it like this or have critshot bypass BT and not remove it. Loading a shot for 3.5-4.5, losing stealth and it doing 0 dmg makes it incredibly useless against Casters. Longshot critting casters is the only thing that keeps me from killing myself,,, err deleating my Hunter I mean.

That is possibly what some people were experiencing.

I hope I did not just reveal my little secret that noone knew about and now archers are even getting nerfed when they are already in a bad state.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:06 AM by semadin

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Apr 2019 10:15 PM
To anyone saying you cannot penetrate Self-BT: Have yout tried longshot? It penetrates and removes self BT! You can even combine critshot and longshot and you have a self-bt penetrating crit shot with a cooldown of 5 minutes.

I have asked multiple times in ingame chat if that is a feature or bug and people told me it was always like this in classic. And I think it should stay like this.. there is a reason new archery critshot bypasses BT (but doesnt remove it). Either keep it like this or have critshot bypass BT and not remove it. Loading a shot for 3.5-4.5, losing stealth and it doing 0 dmg makes it incredibly useless against Casters. Longshot critting casters is the only thing that keeps me from killing myself,,, err deleating my Hunter I mean.

That is possibly what some people were experiencing.

I hope I did not just reveal my little secret that noone knew about and now archers are even getting nerfed when they are already in a bad state.

Just did some quick testing.

You can't crit shot a longshot (setting longshot then opening crit cancels the longshot).

Longshot does indeed pierce and break the BT.

If you are experiencing crit shot working like this, maybe it's a bug where the pierce effect carries over even if LS cancels.

I'll try it out some more.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:35 AM by Cadebrennus

semadin wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:06 AM
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Apr 2019 10:15 PM
To anyone saying you cannot penetrate Self-BT: Have yout tried longshot? It penetrates and removes self BT! You can even combine critshot and longshot and you have a self-bt penetrating crit shot with a cooldown of 5 minutes.

I have asked multiple times in ingame chat if that is a feature or bug and people told me it was always like this in classic. And I think it should stay like this.. there is a reason new archery critshot bypasses BT (but doesnt remove it). Either keep it like this or have critshot bypass BT and not remove it. Loading a shot for 3.5-4.5, losing stealth and it doing 0 dmg makes it incredibly useless against Casters. Longshot critting casters is the only thing that keeps me from killing myself,,, err deleating my Hunter I mean.

That is possibly what some people were experiencing.

I hope I did not just reveal my little secret that noone knew about and now archers are even getting nerfed when they are already in a bad state.

Just did some quick testing.

You can't crit shot a longshot (setting longshot then opening crit cancels the longshot).

Longshot does indeed pierce and break the BT.

If you are experiencing crit shot working like this, maybe it's a bug where the pierce effect carries over even if LS cancels.

I'll try it out some more.

Thanks for testing. I do remember seeing that in a Grab Bag somewhere sometime. However Longshot does seem like a waste of RPs just for that.

Really what the Devs should do is remove the nerfs/counters to Archery that were put in when a few Archer players were running botted and no one else was. Archers were "balanced" with the assumption that they were the only ones who were running with buffs. The nerfs included self casted BT, Nearsight, and reduced Archery damage.

Wed 3 Apr 2019 12:03 AM by semadin

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:35 AM
semadin wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:06 AM
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Apr 2019 10:15 PM
To anyone saying you cannot penetrate Self-BT: Have yout tried longshot? It penetrates and removes self BT! You can even combine critshot and longshot and you have a self-bt penetrating crit shot with a cooldown of 5 minutes.

I have asked multiple times in ingame chat if that is a feature or bug and people told me it was always like this in classic. And I think it should stay like this.. there is a reason new archery critshot bypasses BT (but doesnt remove it). Either keep it like this or have critshot bypass BT and not remove it. Loading a shot for 3.5-4.5, losing stealth and it doing 0 dmg makes it incredibly useless against Casters. Longshot critting casters is the only thing that keeps me from killing myself,,, err deleating my Hunter I mean.

That is possibly what some people were experiencing.

I hope I did not just reveal my little secret that noone knew about and now archers are even getting nerfed when they are already in a bad state.

Just did some quick testing.

You can't crit shot a longshot (setting longshot then opening crit cancels the longshot).

Longshot does indeed pierce and break the BT.

If you are experiencing crit shot working like this, maybe it's a bug where the pierce effect carries over even if LS cancels.

I'll try it out some more.

Thanks for testing. I do remember seeing that in a Grab Bag somewhere sometime. However Longshot does seem like a waste of RPs just for that.

Really what the Devs should do is remove the nerfs/counters to Archery that were put in when a few Archer players were running botted and no one else was. Archers were "balanced" with the assumption that they were the only ones who were running with buffs. The nerfs included self casted BT, Nearsight, and reduced Archery damage.

Yea i always feel like this is the core of the balancing problem.

If you look at the original design, it would suggest that archers are meant to excel at bow OR at melee OR be reasonably decent at both (but not overpowering).

The problem when you bot an archer is they get the ability to be amazing at ranged and melee - and balancing that on a class by class basis doesn't actually solve the problem, but creates new ones.