[Implemented] Social Bonus Range Check, Solo Kill Token

The social bonus was always intended to only work when you're actually playing as a group and not like it's currently used. To prevent that there will be a range check added.

Solo XP is rather terrible and that would become even worse when we just remove the anti social bonus and so as compensation we'll introduce solo kill token. These are as of now just a concept and will likely undergo lots more changes, anyways they are rather similar to kill / collection task items:

Only drops when you're the only one who touched the mob
Guaranteed to drop
Drop amount depends on your level and the mob con (green drops 50%, yellow 100%, orange 125% etc.), yellow drops mob level amount of tokens.
Turn in amount is your level (at level 35 you would have to turn in 35 tokens)
Each turn in gives a specific xp amount, set per level
Unlimited turn ins per level
Can be turned in at class trainers
Nontradable
Stacks to 20k

Possible additional benefit that might be added later but is just an idea for now:
Each turn in gives a number of mob credits which are consumed when a mob is killed while in a group adding an additional (stacking) 5%(?) bonus for everyone. Example: you're leveling solo from 20 to 21 and then turn in the tokens 10 times, each turn in adds 5 credits, and then you group, the first 50 mobs killed while in the group of at least x people now have an additional 5% bonus, each kill reduces the credit.

Thu 12 Jul 2018 12:01 PM by heardstheword

What is the drop rate for these?

Could you explain the drop amount bullet a little more. The statement, "yellow drops mob level amount of tokens", sounds like a lvl 15 yellow mob will drop 15 tokens.

Thu 12 Jul 2018 12:07 PM by

gruenesschaf

That's correct

Thu 12 Jul 2018 12:15 PM by heardstheword

It also says that the turn in amount is your level.
If a level 15 needs to turn in 15 tokens to level, all they would need to do is kill one yellow mob and get the 15 tokens.

Thu 12 Jul 2018 12:25 PM by Asakura

Hello gruenesschaf,

I looking forwared for this change.
It sounds very interesesting.
When I play not in group sometime I kille some mobs make and than I make a small break.
After 5/10/15 minutes I kill the next mobs and so on. Normally groups would not take me as I am allways afk.
But I think and hope that with your new Token system I would have no disadvantage when playing solo.
Hope that many other people are also very interested in this Token system.
I think it needs a fine touch in the end but I am looking forwarred into this feature.

BR

Thu 12 Jul 2018 12:30 PM by heardstheword

Sounds like an amazing change. Viable to solo when there are no available groups at my level. This is much needed, especially in a lower populated beta.

I'm sure at launch, it will be a bit easier to find groups.

Thu 12 Jul 2018 12:53 PM by

gruenesschaf

You would need many more turn ins than only 1 to level up, the exact reward per turn in would be set on a per level basis. The amounts of tokens you need per turn in would be your level however and mobs drop their level as tokens (when yellow).

The intention is not to make it equal to leveling in a group, far from it, but it should make soloing a lot better than what is currently and with the potential additional benefit it would also make leveling in groups after some solo time worth even more.

Thu 12 Jul 2018 1:00 PM by heardstheword

Ah, ok.

At level 15 you would turn in 15 tokens per turn in, but the amount of XP you get for that turn in will be some set amount.

Understood.

Thu 12 Jul 2018 6:08 PM by Myr

Awesome idea!

Thu 12 Jul 2018 6:53 PM by Glimmer

Rly like solo token idea, hope more such ideas will be introduced here !

Thu 12 Jul 2018 7:02 PM by Seigmoraig

Sounds great, but how will the actual turning in be handled ? Will i need to drag and drop 36 times on the merchant guy to get the reward ?

Thu 12 Jul 2018 7:05 PM by

gruenesschaf

Since they are not tradable you'd just drag a stack onto the trainer and it would use up all of them.

Thu 12 Jul 2018 10:29 PM by Varano

This is awesome, I was really starting to wonder how I was going to level my Nightshade.
I don't mind playing solo but the xp was starting to get pretty slow after lvl 30.
Thank you for this

Fri 13 Jul 2018 4:05 AM by Zansobar

Maybe i'm not understanding this correctly, but what is the benefit of having these tokens drop at all? Why can't you just eliminate the token part and give the xp when the token drops instead? For the "credits" that get added for when you group later, why not just add the credit when the mob is killed to your character and avoid the physical tokens?

Is there some benefit to turning them in strategically? Like getting a bunch when you are lower level and waiting until you level up to turn them all in?

Fri 13 Jul 2018 4:24 AM by

gruenesschaf

If you do it as a flat bonus people would just see the large numbers and not want to group "because they get less xp" even though they would most certainly get more xp faster in grp due to the kill speed etc.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 1:05 PM by Mac

I'm all in favor of changing the Social XP to have a range check, it will encourage people to actually group! I am NOT in favor of enhancing solo play with tokens. IMO, we want to be a server that encourages grouping and discourages solo play (except for Solo RvR of course).

Fri 13 Jul 2018 1:11 PM by heardstheword

Mac wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Jul 2018 1:05 PM
I'm all in favor of changing the Social XP to have a range check, it will encourage people to actually group! I am NOT in favor of enhancing solo play with tokens. IMO, we want to be a server that encourages grouping and discourages solo play (except for Solo RvR of course).

They're not encouraging soloing. THey're allowing someone the ability to solo as a viable option. You would still get far more XP in a group, but they don't want to make it impossible to solo. As others have said, they can't always group.

Or if there's no one online within my level range. Sometimes it just doesn't work in your favor.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 2:38 PM by relvinian

I applaud your planned changes, and that you are going to do something to encourage solo xp.

I'm currently doing my xp solo on the beta. I want to test what things will be like not exploit a bug.

My observations tell me that solo xp compared to its current rate should be doubled somehow.

I have xp solo on more than one realm.

I checked it on aoe dotting on an 18 cab and even that should be faster, imo.

Certainly soloing a melee toon, which im doing now, is extremely slow.

another thing I have noticed is that my weapon and shield and xbow are all blue. I'm not sure about the rog changes you put in, or maybe im really unlucky, but soloing im not getting weapon drops.

BTW, none of this solo stuff effects most of the players. There is a guy I grouped with yesterday and I was 13 and he was like I dunno 14. This morning he is lvl 31. I'm lvl 14. To the guy saying basically who cares about solo players? Why do you care? If you do it the group way you will still get way better xp than solo players even if they double or triple solo xp.

This isn't about MOST players it is about some players. But all players and playstyles count in the long run for server population health.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 3:32 PM by Dabrixmgp

this is gonna be awesome for leveling my BM since on Hib the only DPS allowed in groups seems to be Animists.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 5:01 PM by Lillebror

When will this be added?
And will it be added from 1-49?

Fri 13 Jul 2018 5:02 PM by relvinian

I turned in 270 eggs at lvl 15 and received 4.1 bubbles of xp. I was getting about 18 per kill of oranges in Mithra. 15 for yellow

Sat 14 Jul 2018 1:51 PM by colechar

Unintended side effect:
As a support class (healer and shaman) at levels 10 to 25, I found it much more difficult to get a group started once this change was put in. DPS classes no longer wanted to duo because they would not get the eggs and my “support” was not enough to make up the XP difference. Not sure what the solution is, but this change will discourage two solo toons from grouping up ... until they can find a 4th or 5th toon to get a solid grouped formed. I’m not complaining, it’s just an observation.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:18 PM by Quik

colechar wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 1:51 PM
Unintended side effect:
As a support class (healer and shaman) at levels 10 to 25, I found it much more difficult to get a group started once this change was put in. DPS classes no longer wanted to duo because they would not get the eggs and my “support” was not enough to make up the XP difference. Not sure what the solution is, but this change will discourage two solo toons from grouping up ... until they can find a 4th or 5th toon to get a solid grouped formed. I’m not complaining, it’s just an observation.

Right now it is new and people are playing around with the new system.

They will realize that grouping is still a LOT more xp then soloing + eggs.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 5:47 PM by Zansobar

colechar wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 1:51 PM
Unintended side effect:
As a support class (healer and shaman) at levels 10 to 25, I found it much more difficult to get a group started once this change was put in. DPS classes no longer wanted to duo because they would not get the eggs and my “support” was not enough to make up the XP difference. Not sure what the solution is, but this change will discourage two solo toons from grouping up ... until they can find a 4th or 5th toon to get a solid grouped formed. I’m not complaining, it’s just an observation.

I think this is a good point. The way the eggs are now they may hurt the small group XP scene due to exactly what you pointed out...going from one dps to one dps and one support will not double your kill speed, yet you lost the eggs which did double the solo dps' xp speed. I think the solution is to have eggs continue to drop in groups of smaller numbers but at a reduced rate. For example: go from a solo to duo? Eggs drop amount is cut in half, go to three players, it's cut in third...etc. until maybe group size 5 or 6 and then they don't drop anymore...something like that should make it more beneficial, xp over time-wise, to add members to your group regardless of the current group size.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 6:01 PM by Quik

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 5:47 PM
colechar wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 1:51 PM
Unintended side effect:
As a support class (healer and shaman) at levels 10 to 25, I found it much more difficult to get a group started once this change was put in. DPS classes no longer wanted to duo because they would not get the eggs and my “support” was not enough to make up the XP difference. Not sure what the solution is, but this change will discourage two solo toons from grouping up ... until they can find a 4th or 5th toon to get a solid grouped formed. I’m not complaining, it’s just an observation.

I think this is a good point. The way the eggs are now they may hurt the small group XP scene due to exactly what you pointed out...going from one dps to one dps and one support will not double your kill speed, yet you lost the eggs which did double the solo dps' xp speed. I think the solution is to have eggs continue to drop in groups of smaller numbers but at a reduced rate. For example: go from a solo to duo? Eggs drop amount is cut in half, go to three players, it's cut in third...etc. until maybe group size 5 or 6 and then they don't drop anymore...something like that should make it more beneficial, xp over time-wise, to add members to your group regardless of the current group size.

A DPS and a healer of any kind can still earn more then a soloer earning eggs. The only exceptions might be a necro/ani/BD, but any other soloer will not keep pace with a decent duo group. Add in a few more and that group will blow by the soloer.

The eggs will not even come close to replacing grouping, but while watching my 6 yr old at least I can solo now at a clip that I feel is some what fun.

The only issue I have with eggs is needing to return to my trainer. That takes a lot of time away if I am killing mobs far from a porter. I wish they might make eggs clickable to redeem or something. Groups can keep fighting non stop and rake in the xp, my soloer basically earns a lvl or so, then I run back to town and turn in my eggs for a second lvl. Then I run back and go egg hunting again. not game breaking but slows you down a lot.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 6:35 PM by Isavyr

Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 6:01 PM
The only issue I have with eggs is needing to return to my trainer. That takes a lot of time away if I am killing mobs far from a porter. I wish they might make eggs clickable to redeem or something. Groups can keep fighting non stop and rake in the xp, my soloer basically earns a lvl or so, then I run back to town and turn in my eggs for a second lvl. Then I run back and go egg hunting again. not game breaking but slows you down a lot.

This was my thought, too. However, I started to appreciate the forced break. It caused me to return to town, which felt like a more organic part of the game (otherwise, why do towns even exist?). If you can just stay hunting with /train and eggs, it would be a little much (in my opinion).

So long as the trips are infrequent (only every hour or two), I think it's reasonable.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 7:08 PM by Quik

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 6:35 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 6:01 PM
The only issue I have with eggs is needing to return to my trainer. That takes a lot of time away if I am killing mobs far from a porter. I wish they might make eggs clickable to redeem or something. Groups can keep fighting non stop and rake in the xp, my soloer basically earns a lvl or so, then I run back to town and turn in my eggs for a second lvl. Then I run back and go egg hunting again. not game breaking but slows you down a lot.

This was my thought, too. However, I started to appreciate the forced break. It caused me to return to town, which felt like a more organic part of the game (otherwise, why do towns even exist?). If you can just stay hunting with /train and eggs, it would be a little much (in my opinion).

So long as the trips are infrequent (only every hour or two), I think it's reasonable.

Certainly not a game breaker for me, more of just a convenience thing. It does change things up a little especially since you might be changing camps anyway.

The only time it is annoying is when I am not near town and don't need to change camps but I want to turn in eggs after leveling 1-2 times LOL

Mon 23 Jul 2018 5:43 PM by PoisonClovers

This honestly was my favorite thing, I made quite a few friends in game by just being grouped, and the xp bonus was of course always appreciated. The whole idea of a "Social Group" was awesome. And tbh it really encouraged a sub level 20 to be in a group and chat with people who where of all levels 40+. due to your class being something they needed for the full bonus. The range limit now stinks because I was actually ok with soling the few hours a day I can play, talking to random people and still getting decent enough exp to grab a level or so a day. Sure the eggs are a nice touch and prob all equals out in the end XP wise, but lost the social aspect of it. now I just log in spam /lfg and never get one, due to class being a scout obviously. but I just think re-implementing something on these lines would be healthy for the casual players and or unwanted classes for groups.

just my 2 cents! keep up the good work. I love it.

Mon 23 Jul 2018 10:02 PM by sebbo

PoisonClovers wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Jul 2018 5:43 PM
This honestly was my favorite thing, I made quite a few friends in game by just being grouped, and the xp bonus was of course always appreciated. The whole idea of a "Social Group" was awesome. And tbh it really encouraged a sub level 20 to be in a group and chat with people who where of all levels 40+. due to your class being something they needed for the full bonus. The range limit now stinks because I was actually ok with soling the few hours a day I can play, talking to random people and still getting decent enough exp to grab a level or so a day. Sure the eggs are a nice touch and prob all equals out in the end XP wise, but lost the social aspect of it. now I just log in spam /lfg and never get one, due to class being a scout obviously. but I just think re-implementing something on these lines would be healthy for the casual players and or unwanted classes for groups.

just my 2 cents! keep up the good work. I love it.

If it is the loss of social interaction that you miss so much, you can use /adive, /send or even /cg invite xy to talk to random people. Solo xp + eggs + xp loot still gives you a noticeable effort.

Mon 23 Jul 2018 10:08 PM by relvinian

I have soloed and I have grouped.

Not even close, even with eggs and kill tasks.

Tue 24 Jul 2018 10:21 AM by sebbo

No sense in granting solo´s the same progress while others take the effort to build groups.

Tue 24 Jul 2018 2:30 PM by Quik

I don't think solo should get the same as a group...BUT saying you take the effort to build a group so you should get more xp? Wow.

I have a wife and 2 children. I would love to group more but I won't because I would have to afk a lot and I won't do that to a group.

So your saying I should be penalized because I have a family and simply don't have time? We should be doing everything we can to get ALL kinds of people and not just focusing on helping kids or people who spend 18 hours a day on the computer. Everyone should want to play and not be left out because they have less time.

Tue 24 Jul 2018 2:33 PM by heardstheword

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Jul 2018 2:30 PM
So your saying I should be penalized because ....

Let's make sure we're all clear that you're not receiving less XP because you're solo. Solo is the baseline, and groups receive more. You're not penalized for being solo. You are rewarded for being in a group.

It sounds pedantic, but it's definitely a point of difference in mindset.

You will never receive the same amount of XP solo as you would in a group. It would make groups obsolete.

Tue 24 Jul 2018 6:05 PM by Quik

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Jul 2018 2:33 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Jul 2018 2:30 PM
So your saying I should be penalized because ....

Let's make sure we're all clear that you're not receiving less XP because you're solo. Solo is the baseline, and groups receive more. You're not penalized for being solo. You are rewarded for being in a group.

It sounds pedantic, but it's definitely a point of difference in mindset.

You will never receive the same amount of XP solo as you would in a group. It would make groups obsolete.

I completely agree and have argued that for ages.

What I don't agree with is that being in a group should give anything more than what we have now. Some people just don't have time to be in a group or make a group so they get the solo xp plus eggs. I am fine with that. Grouping is getting MORE than enough xp right now, it doesn't need any more.

Wed 25 Jul 2018 1:04 PM by PoisonClovers

relvinian wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Jul 2018 10:08 PM
I have soloed and I have grouped.

Not even close, even with eggs and kill tasks.

well i haven got in a group since the change, so i couldn't compare personally. Been soloing and relying on eggs to buffer. but i can tell it doesn't compare by the levels of the same people i once was leveling with. most are in their 40s and i just hit 34. but again im playing a scout so its a given. Undesirable in PVE but everyone wants their RECON in rvr. lol

Wed 25 Jul 2018 1:14 PM by PoisonClovers

sebbo wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Jul 2018 10:02 PM
PoisonClovers wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Jul 2018 5:43 PM
This honestly was my favorite thing, I made quite a few friends in game by just being grouped, and the xp bonus was of course always appreciated. The whole idea of a "Social Group" was awesome. And tbh it really encouraged a sub level 20 to be in a group and chat with people who where of all levels 40+. due to your class being something they needed for the full bonus. The range limit now stinks because I was actually ok with soling the few hours a day I can play, talking to random people and still getting decent enough exp to grab a level or so a day. Sure the eggs are a nice touch and prob all equals out in the end XP wise, but lost the social aspect of it. now I just log in spam /lfg and never get one, due to class being a scout obviously. but I just think re-implementing something on these lines would be healthy for the casual players and or unwanted classes for groups.

just my 2 cents! keep up the good work. I love it.

If it is the loss of social interaction that you miss so much, you can use /adive, /send or even /cg invite xy to talk to random people. Solo xp + eggs + xp loot still gives you a noticeable effort.

sebbo you missed my point entirely. /advice is spammed /lfg is the same undesirable classes asking every 10 mins for group, /send? lol and /cg? your joking right?
clearly was much easier to just click group chat tab and drown out the other spam. I don't even care if there was a XP bonus just saying some benefit even if it was chance to hit or increased defense abilities in pve would still make it worth it.

just an idea of course.