bard Amnesia.... - Phoenix Freeshard

make bard amnesia have longer CD: right now single target 5 sec and ae 10 sec. way to OP engager,
make timer 60 secs or 120 secs so bards actually have 2 think before just spamming that skill

Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:52 PM by XomBiE4K

I agree with this post

Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:56 PM by teiloh

cocio_dk wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:47 PM
make bard amnesia have longer CD: right now single target 5 sec and ae 10 sec. way to OP engager,
make timer 60 secs or 120 secs so bards actually have 2 think before just spamming that skill

Range decrease in line with live might not be a bad idea.

Sat 2 Mar 2019 10:36 PM by Milchschnidde

Then i want an AOE root or Snare in Exchange, midhealers are able to spam amnesia without cooldown (Cast amensia 2 sec cast time) Range 2300.
Without instant amnesia i wouldnt have any chance to mezz or do anything. Those who complain never played a bard in RvR, the truth in zerg fight when there are 3-4 bards spamming on one possition, could feel like beeing trolled by instant amnesia which in case it is, but can only occur in Zergfights. In 8v8 you usually get an instant add as bard after the intialphase (mezz, purge), without fastcast or any other stopping ability, snare or root you would be instant disabled without beeing usful for everything.

Sat 2 Mar 2019 10:37 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

Ya as soon as they nerf bd's, not gonna happen

Sat 2 Mar 2019 10:52 PM by Quik

How about we stop screaming for nerfs and just enjoy the damn game?

No matter what class you play, someone will always be jealous of something you have and they want!

Sun 3 Mar 2019 6:19 AM by jhaerik

You know what doesn't give a flappy bird about amnesia? Melees.

Play more melee's.

Sun 3 Mar 2019 11:41 AM by Milchschnidde

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 6:19 AM
You know what doesn't give a flappy bird about amnesia? Melees.

Play more melee's.

Thats what i did mean in my post above, playing against mids i always get a melee add as bard. Against albs its more rarly a melee i dont know why usualy i get from albs a pet as add. My only CC is Mezz and if its on cooldown my only chance to do something is to use instant amnesia while running around ...

Sun 3 Mar 2019 1:34 PM by dansari

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 10:36 PM
Those who complain never played a bard in RvR

I played a Bard on live. Bard amnesia is dumb as fuck and should have a cast time like every other amnesia.

Sun 3 Mar 2019 1:45 PM by Luluko

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 11:41 AM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 6:19 AM
You know what doesn't give a flappy bird about amnesia? Melees.

Play more melee's.

Thats what i did mean in my post above, playing against mids i always get a melee add as bard. Against albs its more rarly a melee i dont know why usualy i get from albs a pet as add. My only CC is Mezz and if its on cooldown my only chance to do something is to use instant amnesia while running around ...

you could also moc or use melee while switching endu in from time to time

Sun 3 Mar 2019 1:51 PM by Numatic

Bard amnesia needs either a

1. cast time
2. Range reduction
3. Breaks speed

It cant continue this way. 90% of my RvR deaths are due to being amnesia'd and losing speed. It's literally a free rp button for anything lower than an 8man.

Sun 3 Mar 2019 2:04 PM by Milchschnidde

Luluko wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 1:45 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 11:41 AM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 6:19 AM
You know what doesn't give a flappy bird about amnesia? Melees.

Play more melee's.

Thats what i did mean in my post above, playing against mids i always get a melee add as bard. Against albs its more rarly a melee i dont know why usualy i get from albs a pet as add. My only CC is Mezz and if its on cooldown my only chance to do something is to use instant amnesia while running around ...

you could also moc or use melee while switching endu in from time to time

shure i stand still and wait up until the assist train rapes me while using moc...moc is only viable against caster to Interrupt them, nothing more. As bard you do not have anything against melees you may only switch to weapon and backward and pray that you would block or evade atacks, or run away / try to kite the tank with the help of party mates etc.

Live Server can never be compared to this server on live server you have artefacts, TOA skills, Champion skills etc. you canot compare apples with pears. (as mentioned in an other post before )

Sun 3 Mar 2019 2:14 PM by Milchschnidde

Numatic wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 1:51 PM
Bard amnesia needs either a

1. cast time
2. Range reduction
3. Breaks speed

It cant continue this way. 90% of my RvR deaths are due to being amnesia'd and losing speed. It's literally a free rp button for anything lower than an 8man.

if you would do this then nobody would play hibernia anymore. I dont know why ppls just complain when you look into statistics nobody wants to play hibernia anyway and its not du to "easy mode" as you complain about it. Since server lunch hibernia is in underpopulation mode, removing the last ability to have anything to compete will lead to lesser population and would quit 99% of current bard players, because amnesia is the only valuable utility the bard has, as for mezz you could use a light eldritch for aoe mezz too.Then id rather would run a ministral or Skald, because playing a bard just for beeing a speedbot would get truely annoying...

Sun 3 Mar 2019 2:21 PM by Numatic

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 2:14 PM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 1:51 PM
Bard amnesia needs either a

1. cast time
2. Range reduction
3. Breaks speed

It cant continue this way. 90% of my RvR deaths are due to being amnesia'd and losing speed. It's literally a free rp button for anything lower than an 8man.

if you would do this then nobody would play hibernia anymore. I dont know why ppls just complain when you look into statistics nobody wants to play hibernia anyway and its not du to "easy mode" as you complain about it. Since server lunch hibernia is in underpopulation mode, removing the last ability to have anything to compete will lead to lesser population and would quit 99% of current bard players, because amnesia is the only valuable utility the bard has, as for mezz you could use a light eldritch for aoe mezz too.Then id rather would run a ministral or Skald, because playing a bard just for beeing a speedbot would get truely annoying...

A bard is a healer, buffer, mezzer with speed 6. I think they'll survive an amnesia nerf.

Sun 3 Mar 2019 2:35 PM by Milchschnidde

Numatic wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 2:21 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 2:14 PM
Numatic wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 1:51 PM
Bard amnesia needs either a

1. cast time
2. Range reduction
3. Breaks speed

It cant continue this way. 90% of my RvR deaths are due to being amnesia'd and losing speed. It's literally a free rp button for anything lower than an 8man.

if you would do this then nobody would play hibernia anymore. I dont know why ppls just complain when you look into statistics nobody wants to play hibernia anyway and its not du to "easy mode" as you complain about it. Since server lunch hibernia is in underpopulation mode, removing the last ability to have anything to compete will lead to lesser population and would quit 99% of current bard players, because amnesia is the only valuable utility the bard has, as for mezz you could use a light eldritch for aoe mezz too.Then id rather would run a ministral or Skald, because playing a bard just for beeing a speedbot would get truely annoying...

A bard is a healer, buffer, mezzer with speed 6. I think they'll survive an amnesia nerf.

yes but thats the issue, youre abillity to be a the main mezzer will be reduced to instant mezz, because you cannot apply cast mezz anymore every sorce will outrange any bard with easy, they allready do that. Even if i intterupt by range i still have to move to 1500 range to be able to put the mezz on. While the sorcere have quickcast and the healer has additional instant stun to instant mezz. Also the Skald has a single instant mezz which is able to disable 1 char until healer gets his cc done.

Sun 3 Mar 2019 4:01 PM by Luluko

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 2:04 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 1:45 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 11:41 AM
Thats what i did mean in my post above, playing against mids i always get a melee add as bard. Against albs its more rarly a melee i dont know why usualy i get from albs a pet as add. My only CC is Mezz and if its on cooldown my only chance to do something is to use instant amnesia while running around ...

you could also moc or use melee while switching endu in from time to time

shure i stand still and wait up until the assist train rapes me while using moc...moc is only viable against caster to Interrupt them, nothing more. As bard you do not have anything against melees you may only switch to weapon and backward and pray that you would block or evade atacks, or run away / try to kite the tank with the help of party mates etc.

Live Server can never be compared to this server on live server you have artefacts, TOA skills, Champion skills etc. you canot compare apples with pears. (as mentioned in an other post before )

moc demezzing a druid or warden can still be worth it, especially if you only have 1 melee on you

@topic range should be 2000 max for amnesia and it shouldnt break hastener speed only chants like on live despite that I think its fine

Sun 3 Mar 2019 4:32 PM by Isavyr

This is a thread of players with no experience with bard, no knowledge of its design philosophy, and evidently no knowledge how to counter them either.

I hate making this type of post, which offers little to the discussion, but nothing written has convinced people so far, which makes it evident any further posting will not do anything either. As a sorc, pac healer, and bard player, I will say bards are fine. This is a L2P issue, not a bard issue.

Sun 3 Mar 2019 6:48 PM by teiloh

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 4:32 PM
This is a thread of players with no experience with bard, no knowledge of its design philosophy, and evidently no knowledge how to counter them either.

I hate making this type of post, which offers little to the discussion, but nothing written has convinced people so far, which makes it evident any further posting will not do anything either. As a sorc, pac healer, and bard player, I will say bards are fine. This is a L2P issue, not a bard issue.

Breaking speed to zerg down smaller numbers is the issue, not the skill used in any other fashion.

Sun 3 Mar 2019 6:54 PM by Quik

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 6:48 PM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 4:32 PM
This is a thread of players with no experience with bard, no knowledge of its design philosophy, and evidently no knowledge how to counter them either.

I hate making this type of post, which offers little to the discussion, but nothing written has convinced people so far, which makes it evident any further posting will not do anything either. As a sorc, pac healer, and bard player, I will say bards are fine. This is a L2P issue, not a bard issue.

Breaking speed to zerg down smaller numbers is the issue, not the skill used in any other fashion.

Ok so honest question...

Should the GM's really alter a class because it has a unique ability to break the speed of small mans/solo's so they can be zerged down?

I personally don't want them to balance a class on a group size decision.

I play Mid...currently playing my Thane...and I personally haven't run into a lot of issues with this. yes it has interrupted me a few times but nothing out of the ordinary I would be upset about.

But as far as small mans/soloers losing speed, why alter a class based on this issue? No offense to any group size, but the fewer people you take the bigger risks you take to offset the bigger possible rewards.

Sun 3 Mar 2019 7:02 PM by teiloh

Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Mar 2019 6:54 PM
Ok so honest question...

Should the GM's really alter a class because it has a unique ability to break the speed of small mans/solo's so they can be zerged down?

I personally don't want them to balance a class on a group size decision.

I play Mid...currently playing my Thane...and I personally haven't run into a lot of issues with this. yes it has interrupted me a few times but nothing out of the ordinary I would be upset about.

But as far as small mans/soloers losing speed, why alter a class based on this issue? No offense to any group size, but the fewer people you take the bigger risks you take to offset the bigger possible rewards.

Population is often not something people can control. Smaller groups should be able to move around the frontiers without a nigh-guarantee of being caught. When I get my way at least I manage this by having two SOS2 classes in our groups, but still - most groups can't do anything about being outnumbered, and being a guaranteed kill almost as soon as you get into clip of a single Bard is not good for the health of the game.

While large scale RvR is a main draw of the game, there should be more spaces for underpop realms or small groups to work from, so they can feel they had an impact on the game.

I objected originally to Live's decision to bring down Amnesia range because it was so iconic, but with NNF RAs, No TOA and 1.65 class balance (with additional charm pet nerfs) this is one of the balance issues that crops up.

Bards could survive having their Amnesia range reduced, just like how every other short-duration insta sees a major decrease in range (Minstrel stun and Skald mez: 700 vs 1500, Bard Amnesia could go to 1500 or 1875 and still be excellent)

If this goes however, Bard Nurture needs some filling and some QOL changes should go in for instruments.

Sun 3 Mar 2019 7:17 PM by Quik

I have no issues with the range reduction and personally I feel the only thing that should have more than 1500 range are bolts...I think everything else should be limited to standard 1500 range.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 7:36 AM by Sepplord

the problem isn't smallmen/solos getting rundown by hibgrps...

the problem is that hibs get to choose their engages, they can play around mid/albgrps/zergs while albs/mids need to stay A LOT further away from hibs.
This wouldn't be a problem if hibs weren't as mobile, aka they can't run away, so they get tools to catch everyone from running away from them. But that isn't the case.

Breaking speed over this range is impossible for other realms and imo that is a discrepancy that should be adressed, even if i like the assymetric realms. Chosing your fights is one of the biggest factors in roaming-RvR and two realms are currently significantly disadvantaged.

They need the instant-cooldowns though infight, and that is fine. That's for example a part where the asyymetrical realmbalance works out imo. It might feel OP to others in some situation, but it also has its disadvantage (it isn't spammable for example)

Mon 4 Mar 2019 8:01 AM by Milchschnidde

Then remove Instant stun from healer, remove mezz dempening from sorcerer, reduce its the mezz radius to 325 etc. You have to take more things into considaration, there is allways an ability that is more anoying in certain situation.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:09 PM by MiNDmaZing

90% when i see hib inc i get blue dots on my head and get farmed, no way to escape this. It should have cast time or 5-10 min cool down and give em a second castable aoe amnesia with 2 sec cast time.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 8:20 PM by Quik

The easy fix is to simply let it still drop speed, but have it also drop speed on the bard at the same time.

I'm not sure of the reasoning behind why the bard shouldn't lose speed as well.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 10:00 PM by Aincrad

Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 8:20 PM
The easy fix is to simply let it still drop speed, but have it also drop speed on the bard at the same time.

I'm not sure of the reasoning behind why the bard shouldn't lose speed as well.

It is already working like this. The bard does lose speed as well

Mon 4 Mar 2019 10:15 PM by Milchschnidde

Aincrad wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 10:00 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 8:20 PM
The easy fix is to simply let it still drop speed, but have it also drop speed on the bard at the same time.

I'm not sure of the reasoning behind why the bard shouldn't lose speed as well.

It is already working like this. The bard does lose speed as well

The main reason why they catch up they use sprint and recast speed while.engaging the enemys, so it feels like the speed did not break. They also use sos which ignores combat, take into considerarion that only the bard gets speed loss, enchanter speed or warden speed may still tick on other party mates

Tue 5 Mar 2019 12:31 AM by dansari

Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 8:01 AM
Then remove Instant stun from healer, remove mezz dempening from sorcerer, reduce its the mezz radius to 325 etc. You have to take more things into considaration, there is allways an ability that is more anoying in certain situation.

This. Is not. The issue. The issue is that it drops speed while its range is at a staggeringly stupid value. The problem is hib has *800* more range with which to decide if they want to engage. Hib has a safe zone buffer *800* range larger than both other realms. No one has even attempted to dispute this fact, and they would rather bring up irrelevancies like healer insta stun or sorc bolt mez because they aren't able to defeat the actual argument (otherwise known as a strawman).

Tue 5 Mar 2019 12:55 AM by Quik

dansari wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 12:31 AM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 8:01 AM
Then remove Instant stun from healer, remove mezz dempening from sorcerer, reduce its the mezz radius to 325 etc. You have to take more things into considaration, there is allways an ability that is more anoying in certain situation.

This. Is not. The issue. The issue is that it drops speed while its range is at a staggeringly stupid value. The problem is hib has *800* more range with which to decide if they want to engage. Hib has a safe zone buffer *800* range larger than both other realms. No one has even attempted to dispute this fact, and they would rather bring up irrelevancies like healer insta stun or sorc bolt mez because they aren't able to defeat the actual argument (otherwise known as a strawman).

Yep, I se the range as the main issue.

Drop ALL non-bolt spells to 1500 and leave bolts at 1850 or whatever it is.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 1:43 AM by Isavyr

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 12:55 AM
Yep, I se the range as the main issue.

Drop ALL non-bolt spells to 1500 and leave bolts at 1850 or whatever it is.

I sympathize with small groups getting picked on by large groups using insta-amnesia, but nerfing it would effect so many other areas disastrously. Killing its range, and spells in general, is a messy way to balance the issue, full of unintended consequences. Archers wouldn't be able to be near-sighted, or amnesia'd. Amnesia would become a lot less useful, as it no longer would be effective at disrupting. No longer could you use it to interrupt backline casters. No longer could AOE amnesia drop speed from charging tanks.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:33 AM by jhaerik

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 1:43 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 12:55 AM
Yep, I se the range as the main issue.

Drop ALL non-bolt spells to 1500 and leave bolts at 1850 or whatever it is.

I sympathize with small groups getting picked on by large groups using insta-amnesia, but nerfing it would effect so many other areas disastrously. Killing its range, and spells in general, is a messy way to balance the issue, full of unintended consequences. Archers wouldn't be able to be near-sighted, or amnesia'd. Amnesia would become a lot less useful, as it no longer would be effective at disrupting. No longer could you use it to interrupt backline casters. No longer could AOE amnesia drop speed from charging tanks.

Ok fine... give all realms 2300 range insta aoe amnesia then.