Macro question: How far can you take it?

So i've heard that you are ok with people using macros here, but is there a limit to them?

I've also heard that repeating macros for chants and such are not allowed, but I'm asking because i kind of want to macro all my skald resists to one button, for example:

Resists > Heal song > Dmg add > Speed

Thats a total of 9 buttons, but i will activate the macro manually every 'cycle'

Sun 24 Feb 2019 3:10 PM by Joc

That's legal. As long as there is nothing automated or on a time delay for clicks. You can have 100 actions tied to one button really. As long as you are manually hitting the button with each action (or once for many actions without delays).

Sun 24 Feb 2019 3:34 PM by Afuldan

Do I have to download a program for this or can this be done in game? As Warrior, I’d like to /qbind simple macros (1hd swap/slam and 2hd swap/ragnarok).

Sun 24 Feb 2019 3:57 PM by Zansobar

dudis wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 1:16 PM
So i've heard that you are ok with people using macros here, but is there a limit to them?

I've also heard that repeating macros for chants and such are not allowed, but I'm asking because i kind of want to macro all my skald resists to one button, for example:

Resists > Heal song > Dmg add > Speed

Thats a total of 9 buttons, but i will activate the macro manually every 'cycle'

How would this work though? The first command in the list would be the one that get's sent to the game client each time you click the button. It won't activate the other commands in the list unless you put in delays between them (as far as I know) which is illegal. People need to be wary of Autohotkey as someone posted on here that it automatically puts delays between the commands you put in a list (and apparently you don't see that it does this)...which again would make you bannable.

The multiple commands per keystroke only work if there is a state the game can check that disregards one of the commands in the list and then the game client will move to the second command. This is like putting debuff/buff on the same key...if it's a hostile target it will not attempt to buff and instead will debuff while if it's a friendly the opposite occurs. I don't think putting multiple buffs on the same key will do anything but repeatedly activate the first buff/song in the list.

Sun 24 Feb 2019 4:50 PM by dudis

I'm assuming the limit would be at something reasonable then, like at most a tenth of a second between simulated key-strokes?

Sun 24 Feb 2019 5:06 PM by Tavi

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=30840#p30840

Sun 24 Feb 2019 5:48 PM by Zansobar

dudis wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 4:50 PM
I'm assuming the limit would be at something reasonable then, like at most a tenth of a second between simulated key-strokes?

No, any delay would be gamebreaking and allow simplification of character operation that is against the TOS.

Sun 24 Feb 2019 5:56 PM by dudis

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 5:48 PM
dudis wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 4:50 PM
I'm assuming the limit would be at something reasonable then, like at most a tenth of a second between simulated key-strokes?

No, any delay would be gamebreaking and allow simplification of character operation that is against the TOS.

So what exactly are you allowed to do then, if its not ok to run a macro that presses numpad 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 in order but with no coded delay?

Tavi wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 5:06 PM
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=30840#p30840

Thanks for the link. Still not sure I completely understand though, judging from other peoples comments.

Sun 24 Feb 2019 6:03 PM by Zansobar

dudis wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 5:56 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 5:48 PM
dudis wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 4:50 PM
I'm assuming the limit would be at something reasonable then, like at most a tenth of a second between simulated key-strokes?

No, any delay would be gamebreaking and allow simplification of character operation that is against the TOS.

So what exactly are you allowed to do then, if its not ok to run a macro that presses numpad 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 in order but with no coded delay?

Tavi wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 5:06 PM
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=30840#p30840

Thanks for the link. Still not sure I completely understand though, judging from other peoples comments.

You can bind a debuff and a buff to the same key that runs a macro with two commands buff target, debuff target (no delay). The game engine will automatically determine which to fire based on your target. If its friendly it will buff them if its hostile it will fire the debuff.

You can bind a melee style 2nd in chain and a melee style first in chain to a single key (again no delays). When you press the button, if you haven't already done first in chain attack against the target, the game engine will give you the message "you must first perform X before Y" and will automatically choose the second style as a backup for the first one.

What people want to do is put delays in and automate all their chants, songs, melee style reactionaries, and so on...and this is NOT allowed by the TOS.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 7:23 AM by dudis

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 6:03 PM
You can bind a debuff and a buff to the same key that runs a macro with two commands buff target, debuff target (no delay). The game engine will automatically determine which to fire based on your target. If its friendly it will buff them if its hostile it will fire the debuff.

You can bind a melee style 2nd in chain and a melee style first in chain to a single key (again no delays). When you press the button, if you haven't already done first in chain attack against the target, the game engine will give you the message "you must first perform X before Y" and will automatically choose the second style as a backup for the first one.

What people want to do is put delays in and automate all their chants, songs, melee style reactionaries, and so on...and this is NOT allowed by the TOS.

So as long as only one action is performed ingame, it doesnt matter what goes on in the background (macro)?

That makes sense i guess.

Still seeing people saying "more" is okay in other threads though... oO

From their rules page:

5. Macroing
It is allowed to bind multiple actions to a key, however, delays, repeats, and conditions are strictly forbidden as well as any other means that allow unattended game-play

Could maybe someone from the staff comment?

Mon 25 Feb 2019 10:30 AM by Ashok

Like said in the linked thread, you can bind as many actions as you want to a single key, as long you do it without delays (stop + automatic continue after X ms) and automatic repetitions are in.
Also decision logic within the macro is forbidden if the decision is based on in-game data (like: "If HP<50"

; leave those to the client.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 10:37 AM by dudis

Ashok wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 10:30 AM
Like said in the linked thread, you can bind as many actions as you want to a single key, as long you do it without delays (stop + automatic continue after X ms) and automatic repetitions are in.
Also decision logic within the macro is forbidden if the decision is based on in-game data (like: "If HP<50"; leave those to the client.

Cool, so using my previous example of pressing one button to press numpad 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 in order but with no coded delay other than however many CPU cycles it takes to run the macro (non repeated), is ok then?

Sorry for keeping this thread going, i just really dont want my chars deleted xD

Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:21 AM by Tavi

dudis wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 10:37 AM
Ashok wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 10:30 AM
Like said in the linked thread, you can bind as many actions as you want to a single key, as long you do it without delays (stop + automatic continue after X ms) and automatic repetitions are in.
Also decision logic within the macro is forbidden if the decision is based on in-game data (like: "If HP<50"; leave those to the client.

Cool, so using my previous example of pressing one button to press numpad 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 in order but with no coded delay other than however many CPU cycles it takes to run the macro (non repeated), is ok then?

Sorry for keeping this thread going, i just really dont want my chars deleted xD

Pressing those 9 button's without delay is not possible. You will have to come up with a different solution.
Read the thread that i posted, Ashok made some good suggestion on how to do workarounds.

Edit for the lazy ppl:

Ashok wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Feb 2019 3:00 PM
If your script does not work without delays, feel free to change it.

Think bigger and out of the box. Don't hang on to the word 'delay'.
If you're not allowed to add a delay (=pausing the script and automatically continue after X miliseconds), add a pause which requires you to hit the key again to continue. Or use "key down" and "key up" commands seperatly instead of the combined "key".

Or add a switch mode (without the pause); 1 press is action X and Y, press 2 A + B, press 3 G + H... and start over.

Coding offers a broad toolset to engage issues from tons of angles; use them to get what you want and still comply to the servers rules.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 12:00 PM by dudis

I did read it, just didnt get it at first. Still not entirely sure that i do

Thanks!

Followup question then: Am I allowed to bind my resist chants (6 buttons) to my mouse wheel, and have them alternate which chant is on the next "tick" for basically the same effect (pop all of them at once)?

Mon 25 Feb 2019 4:20 PM by Tavi

dudis wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 12:00 PM
I did read it, just didnt get it at first. Still not entirely sure that i do

Thanks!

Followup question then: Am I allowed to bind my resist chants (6 buttons) to my mouse wheel, and have them alternate which chant is on the next "tick" for basically the same effect (pop all of them at once)?

thats basically what Ashok is describing here

Ashok wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Feb 2019 3:00 PM
Or add a switch mode (without the pause); 1 press is action X and Y, press 2 A + B, press 3 G + H... and start over.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 4:49 PM by dudis

Tavi wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 4:20 PM
dudis wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 12:00 PM
I did read it, just didnt get it at first. Still not entirely sure that i do

Thanks!

Followup question then: Am I allowed to bind my resist chants (6 buttons) to my mouse wheel, and have them alternate which chant is on the next "tick" for basically the same effect (pop all of them at once)?

thats basically what Ashok is describing here
Ashok wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Feb 2019 3:00 PM
Or add a switch mode (without the pause); 1 press is action X and Y, press 2 A + B, press 3 G + H... and start over.

Thanks for all your help buddy

Mon 25 Feb 2019 5:01 PM by Anaethema

Honestly if you think it might be in a gray area of the rules, I wouldn't do it. I love playing this game and won't even bind 2 actions to a single key because of posts like the one below. I plan on playing this game for a LONG time to come!!!

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5804

Tue 26 Feb 2019 7:36 AM by Tavi

Anaethema wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 5:01 PM
Honestly if you think it might be in a gray area of the rules, I wouldn't do it. I love playing this game and won't even bind 2 actions to a single key because of posts like the one below. I plan on playing this game for a LONG time to come!!!

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5804

Comments like these create posts like this ^^
Binding 2 actions to one single key is allowed, lets not create rumors plz.

The ban seems to be linked to unattended gameplay and not the use case that is described here.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:18 PM by Zansobar

Tavi wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 7:36 AM
Anaethema wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 5:01 PM
Honestly if you think it might be in a gray area of the rules, I wouldn't do it. I love playing this game and won't even bind 2 actions to a single key because of posts like the one below. I plan on playing this game for a LONG time to come!!!

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5804

Comments like these create posts like this ^^
Binding 2 actions to one single key is allowed, lets not create rumors plz.

The ban seems to be linked to unattended gameplay and not the use case that is described here.

Not if a delay is generated between the 2 actions...and from what I've read on these forums AHK automatically puts an unseen delay in between two actions, which is not allowed by the TOS.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:51 PM by Tavi

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:18 PM
Tavi wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 7:36 AM
Anaethema wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 5:01 PM
Honestly if you think it might be in a gray area of the rules, I wouldn't do it. I love playing this game and won't even bind 2 actions to a single key because of posts like the one below. I plan on playing this game for a LONG time to come!!!

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5804

Comments like these create posts like this ^^
Binding 2 actions to one single key is allowed, lets not create rumors plz.

The ban seems to be linked to unattended gameplay and not the use case that is described here.

Not if a delay is generated between the 2 actions...and from what I've read on these forums AHK automatically puts an unseen delay in between two actions, which is not allowed by the TOS.

There is no such thing as no delay between actions.
What mods are referring to is that you shouldnt explicility code a delay into your script, which would allow complex actions.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:32 PM by Zansobar

Tavi wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:51 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:18 PM
Tavi wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 7:36 AM
Comments like these create posts like this ^^
Binding 2 actions to one single key is allowed, lets not create rumors plz.

The ban seems to be linked to unattended gameplay and not the use case that is described here.

Not if a delay is generated between the 2 actions...and from what I've read on these forums AHK automatically puts an unseen delay in between two actions, which is not allowed by the TOS.

There is no such thing as no delay between actions.
What mods are referring to is that you shouldnt explicility code a delay into your script, which would allow complex actions.

Yes there is such a thing as no delay between macro actions, it's just those actions won't work unless they are resolved by the game engine itself, which is what the devs are saying is allowed.

Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:59 PM by Tavi

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:32 PM
Tavi wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:51 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:18 PM
Not if a delay is generated between the 2 actions...and from what I've read on these forums AHK automatically puts an unseen delay in between two actions, which is not allowed by the TOS.

There is no such thing as no delay between actions.
What mods are referring to is that you shouldnt explicility code a delay into your script, which would allow complex actions.

Yes there is such a thing as no delay between macro actions, it's just those actions won't work unless they are resolved by the game engine itself, which is what the devs are saying is allowed.

A delay of 0 yields the remainder of the script's current timeslice to any other processes that need it (as long as they are not significantly lower in priority than the script). Thus, a delay of 0 produces an actual delay between 0 and 20ms (or more), depending on the number of needy processes (if there are no needy processes, there will be no delay at all). However, a Delay of 0 should always wind up being shorter than any longer Delay would have been.

this will apply to all programs,

Please read the linked thread before commenting, there was literally the same discussion
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=30840#p30840

Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:57 AM by Azvard

So if I have a script on my skald that has on one button:
Shout
Shout
Conquer
Provoke

is there an automatic delay that I don't know about that will get me banned? those are all instant key actions

Thu 28 Feb 2019 2:10 PM by dudis

Azvard wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:57 AM
So if I have a script on my skald that has on one button:
Shout
Shout
Conquer
Provoke

is there an automatic delay that I don't know about that will get me banned? those are all instant key actions

I think the best way to describe it as far as i understand it is that the output of the macro isnt allowed to be automatic. So lets say i press one button and have 4 things happen, the last 2-3 of those (depending if you use key-up too) will be automatic outputs and thus not allowed.

Key-down / Key-up is allowed because nothing is being output automatically. Two triggers, two outputs.

The HKN Toggle macro I posted before does one output per action i take (each "step" of scrolling), difference being that each output is a different key.

So agian, one trigger, one output. The rules dont care what the script does in the background to achieve this.