CC Balance. Give Alb more RR CC

Started 25 Feb 2019
by Seige
in Suggestions
We all know Albs lose the Cc game unless they outplay the enemy. This is fact. Albion has struggled with the imbalance of insta cc since release. To offset this why not give more RR cc to Alb? I know that another Icor or TW would greatly help. ST is meh but even another melee with ST would help. Just my thoughts for whatever they are worth.

Hibs get Animist,Eld,and Vale for Icor.. 3 classes.
Champ and Ment for ST...2 classes.
Warden for TW..1 class
Curious why HIB of all realms gets this many.

Mid gets Sham for Icor...1 class
Thane for ST..1 class
BD for TW... 1 class

Alb gets Necro and Sorc for Icor...2 classes
Friar for ST..1 class
Reaver for TW..1 class

Hibs get insta AOE Mez/root
Mids get insta AOE Mez/Stun
Albs get no aoe instas....
Mon 25 Feb 2019 7:29 PM by teiloh
Another way of looking at it:

3/13 Hib Classes get Ichor = 23% (1 low groupability)
15% get ST
7.5% get TWF
7.5% get SoS

1/12 or 8% in Mid get Ichor
8% get ST
8% get TWF
8% get SoS

2/14 or 14% in Alb get Ichor (1 low groupability)
7% get ST (low groupability)
7% get TWF (low groupability)
7% get SoS
Mon 25 Feb 2019 7:32 PM by Seige
Lmao thanks. Now add Insta AOE Stun/MEZ/Root to that list and remove SoS.
Mon 25 Feb 2019 8:49 PM by Luluko
Is that a joke? Alb bolt mezz range is ridiculous good especially when it comes to zerging if you have a good sorc the problem are the cabs and earth wizzards with ae dot.... Sure in 8vs8 its worse vs a good bard/healer with instants up then you need a minstrel to stun the bard/healer before he is in range or you have to sos on inc and mezz from the back and not stand in the front as a sorc. But the realms arent balanced arround 8vs8 or 1vs1, so either live with it or reroll hib/mid.
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:07 PM by teiloh
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 8:49 PM
Is that a joke? Alb bolt mezz range is ridiculous good especially when it comes to zerging if you have a good sorc the problem are the cabs and earth wizzards with ae dot.... Sure in 8vs8 its worse vs a good bard/healer with instants up then you need a minstrel to stun the bard/healer before he is in range or you have to sos on inc and mezz from the back and not stand in the front as a sorc. But the realms arent balanced arround 8vs8 or 1vs1, so either live with it or reroll hib/mid.

Bolt mez is good in zergs when no one is paying attention and you have a ton of Sorcs, but in zergs extra healers should be Spamnesia'ing if they are having trouble with Alb mez.

His point still stands.
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:13 PM by Luluko
teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:07 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 8:49 PM
Is that a joke? Alb bolt mezz range is ridiculous good especially when it comes to zerging if you have a good sorc the problem are the cabs and earth wizzards with ae dot.... Sure in 8vs8 its worse vs a good bard/healer with instants up then you need a minstrel to stun the bard/healer before he is in range or you have to sos on inc and mezz from the back and not stand in the front as a sorc. But the realms arent balanced arround 8vs8 or 1vs1, so either live with it or reroll hib/mid.

Bolt mez is good in zergs when no one is paying attention and you have a ton of Sorcs, but in zergs extra healers should be Spamnesia'ing if they are having trouble with Alb mez.

His point still stands.

with the amount of pets albs have you wont spam amnesia for long tho
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:23 PM by teiloh
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:13 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:07 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 8:49 PM
Is that a joke? Alb bolt mezz range is ridiculous good especially when it comes to zerging if you have a good sorc the problem are the cabs and earth wizzards with ae dot.... Sure in 8vs8 its worse vs a good bard/healer with instants up then you need a minstrel to stun the bard/healer before he is in range or you have to sos on inc and mezz from the back and not stand in the front as a sorc. But the realms arent balanced arround 8vs8 or 1vs1, so either live with it or reroll hib/mid.

Bolt mez is good in zergs when no one is paying attention and you have a ton of Sorcs, but in zergs extra healers should be Spamnesia'ing if they are having trouble with Alb mez.

His point still stands.

with the amount of pets albs have you wont spam amnesia for long tho

In a zerg? You have probably 12 people capable of using Amnesia and 12 of nearsight, and Mid outnumbers Alb by at least 5 fgs at primetime.

It won't be a problem.
Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:46 PM by Seige
There sadly are no good defensive points to argue about Albs lack of access to insta cc.. I remember years ago the argument over range came into play about 1850 vs 1500. I am digging hopefully will find it b/c I am extremely lazy to do the math myself. But if you take 2 8 mans running at spd 6 the time to get into insta cc range for mids or hib is faster still than albs ability to cast their cc.. Like i said i will continue to try to find a very well said post about this... Still besides the point imo.. Point of fact is with the current breakdown of RR CCs, Hib is by far in the lead. You throw amnesia on top of everything and I am alittle perplexed as to why they have access to so many RR CCs.
Balance is all I am asking for.. Give Albs a little bit more in our tool kit.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:03 AM by Keelia
You have a insta stun and 2k range snaring pets. You’re just fine.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:11 AM by teiloh
Keelia wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:03 AM
You have a insta stun and 2k range snaring pets. You’re just fine.

Nope. Interrupt the Theurgist. They're not like BDs, they actually have to cast.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:24 AM by Seige
Keelia wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:03 AM
You have a insta stun and 2k range snaring pets. You’re just fine.

I think your intentionally missing the point.. INSTA AOE.. Single target is great.. But i have specifically targeted AOE CC in this thread. But because you would like to bring it up lets take a minute to break it down.

Hibs-Single target Instas
Bard-Insta Mez-Insta Amen(We can argue whether this is considered cc or not )
Animist-Dont we even mention FnF pets? Nah
Champion-Insta Snare
Druid-Insta Root
Valewalker-Insta Snare
Mids-Single target Instas
Healer-Insta Stun/Insta Mez
Skald-Insta Snare/Insta Mez
Albs-Single target instas
Mins-Insta Stun

We get 1 insta cc single target. Unless I am missing something?
But your right we get a class that has a 3s cast pet that snares and can be cast at 2k range.
Please bring more to the table if your are going to disagree.. If you actually have a differing opinion and would like to enlighten me as why I am wrong please let me know.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:31 AM by astean
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 8:49 PM
Is that a joke? Alb bolt mezz range is ridiculous good especially when it comes to zerging if you have a good sorc the problem are the cabs and earth wizzards with ae dot.... Sure in 8vs8 its worse vs a good bard/healer with instants up then you need a minstrel to stun the bard/healer before he is in range or you have to sos on inc and mezz from the back and not stand in the front as a sorc. But the realms arent balanced arround 8vs8 or 1vs1, so either live with it or reroll hib/mid.

Unless you get insta 2300 range amnesia'd
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:36 AM by Seige
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 8:49 PM
Is that a joke? Alb bolt mezz range is ridiculous good especially when it comes to zerging if you have a good sorc the problem are the cabs and earth wizzards with ae dot.... Sure in 8vs8 its worse vs a good bard/healer with instants up then you need a minstrel to stun the bard/healer before he is in range or you have to sos on inc and mezz from the back and not stand in the front as a sorc. But the realms arent balanced arround 8vs8 or 1vs1, so either live with it or reroll hib/mid.

Another thing to remember bud is the realms have been balanced by the Phoenix developers. This isn't old school Daoc anymore. Also this is on a Suggestions forum page.. So nah not going to reroll or live with it. Thanks for the kind suggestion though.

P.s. -I rerolled from Mid.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:42 AM by Keelia
Oh no you interrupted the theurg. One less pet, 9 more to follow from the safety of 2k range. [edit - Language] is balanced this can go on all day long.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:47 AM by Quik
Keelia wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:42 AM
Oh no you interrupted the theurg. One less pet, 9 more to follow from the safety of 2k range. [edit - Language] is balanced this can go on all day long.

This.

Every realm can sit here and talk about how many classes need to be nerfed or how their realm needs a buff.

Albion has things that neither Hib nor Mid have as do those 2 realms.

If you want to bring this up the other 2 realms can bring up a dozen more on why Alb is ok or maybe even needs a nerf.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:53 AM by Seige
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:47 AM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:42 AM
Oh no you interrupted the theurg. One less pet, 9 more to follow from the safety of 2k range. [edit - Language] is balanced this can go on all day long.

This.

Every realm can sit here and talk about how many classes need to be nerfed or how their realm needs a buff.

Albion has things that neither Hib nor Mid have as do those 2 realms.

If you want to bring this up the other 2 realms can bring up a dozen more on why Alb is ok or maybe even needs a nerf.

By all means, please bring up some points to counter the lack of AoE CC that Albion currently has.. I am honestly curious to know what is considered the balance for it.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:59 AM by Seige
Keelia wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:42 AM
Oh no you interrupted the theurg. One less pet, 9 more to follow from the safety of 2k range. [edit - Language] is balanced this can go on all day long.

I forgot that Theurgs get a insta cast ability that pops out 9 pets at range. Also forgot that when they press this button it makes them cc immune and uninterruptible.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:15 AM by teiloh
Keelia wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:42 AM
Oh no you interrupted the theurg. One less pet, 9 more to follow from the safety of 2k range. [edit - Language] is balanced this can go on all day long.

Except interrupt code lasts 3 seconds.

And you can interrupt again. But I guess with 2300 range amnesia, NS, BD lifetap, etc it's too hard. But yeah, letting a caster cast for 13 seconds straight without an interrupt ... roflmao
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:16 AM by teiloh
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:47 AM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:42 AM
Oh no you interrupted the theurg. One less pet, 9 more to follow from the safety of 2k range. [edit - Language] is balanced this can go on all day long.

This.

Every realm can sit here and talk about how many classes need to be nerfed or how their realm needs a buff.

Albion has things that neither Hib nor Mid have as do those 2 realms.

If you want to bring this up the other 2 realms can bring up a dozen more on why Alb is ok or maybe even needs a nerf.

Nope. If you go 1 for 1 eventually the Alb list of "advantages" runs out.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:27 AM by Quik
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:16 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:47 AM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:42 AM
Oh no you interrupted the theurg. One less pet, 9 more to follow from the safety of 2k range. [edit - Language] is balanced this can go on all day long.

This.

Every realm can sit here and talk about how many classes need to be nerfed or how their realm needs a buff.

Albion has things that neither Hib nor Mid have as do those 2 realms.

If you want to bring this up the other 2 realms can bring up a dozen more on why Alb is ok or maybe even needs a nerf.

Nope. If you go 1 for 1 eventually the Alb list of "advantages" runs out.

This has also been discussed through beta along with a multitude of other things.

You are Alb so of course you feel like you get the short end of the stick.

Personally, until Albs actually start doing some RvR and stop waiting for the "perfect" group to form I don't feel sorry for them. As I stated on antoher post, I played Alb and I had a 50 Cleric and I got tired of waiting because the 7 of us weren't enough apparently and they didn't want to grab a Friar or Necro, they were dead set on having a Theurg or a second Sorc.

Instead of blaming your realms problems on a lack of CC, how about Alb's just come out and play for awhile and see how you do. I love hearing how Alb's quit coming out because they were only getting rolled, while Hib might get rolled for hours but they still come out, and then Hibs will dominate and Mids will get rolled bu they still come out.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:33 AM by teiloh
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:27 AM
This has also been discussed through beta along with a multitude of other things.

You are Alb so of course you feel like you get the short end of the stick.

Personally, until Albs actually start doing some RvR and stop waiting for the "perfect" group to form I don't feel sorry for them. As I stated on antoher post, I played Alb and I had a 50 Cleric and I got tired of waiting because the 7 of us weren't enough apparently and they didn't want to grab a Friar or Necro, they were dead set on having a Theurg or a second Sorc.

Instead of blaming your realms problems on a lack of CC, how about Alb's just come out and play for awhile and see how you do. I love hearing how Alb's quit coming out because they were only getting rolled, while Hib might get rolled for hours but they still come out, and then Hibs will dominate and Mids will get rolled bu they still come out.

No, I know the game better than most people so I can see that Alb is at a disadvantage. And you think Albs wait for a "perfect group" (no, they don't, they just need a base of 5-6) for fun? Or because they know they'll be at a severe disadvantage otherwise?

Your personal experience with bad pugs is not relevant.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:45 AM by Quik
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:33 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:27 AM
This has also been discussed through beta along with a multitude of other things.

You are Alb so of course you feel like you get the short end of the stick.

Personally, until Albs actually start doing some RvR and stop waiting for the "perfect" group to form I don't feel sorry for them. As I stated on antoher post, I played Alb and I had a 50 Cleric and I got tired of waiting because the 7 of us weren't enough apparently and they didn't want to grab a Friar or Necro, they were dead set on having a Theurg or a second Sorc.

Instead of blaming your realms problems on a lack of CC, how about Alb's just come out and play for awhile and see how you do. I love hearing how Alb's quit coming out because they were only getting rolled, while Hib might get rolled for hours but they still come out, and then Hibs will dominate and Mids will get rolled bu they still come out.

No, I know the game better than most people so I can see that Alb is at a disadvantage. And you think Albs wait for a "perfect group" (no, they don't, they just need a base of 5-6) for fun? Or because they know they'll be at a severe disadvantage otherwise?

Your personal experience with bad pugs is not relevant.

Well since you know more than most people there is no reason to argue =)

As to how they don't wait? Oh they absolutely do. I have been back to alb a few times on my cleric and every time I saw TONS of people in LFG asking for RvR but the groups were only after very specific classes so they just sat in /lfg asking over and over. I won't say this never happens in Mid, but it happens in Alb a WHOLE lot worse and it isn't even close. Once or twice I could see...6-7 times? Nah that's an issue that needs cleaned up.

I wish you luck but currently all 3 realms are pretty well even if everyone actually comes out and play.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:48 AM by teiloh
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:45 AM
As to how they don't wait? Oh they absolutely do. I have been back to alb a few times on my cleric and every time I saw TONS of people in LFG asking for RvR but the groups were only after very specific classes so they just sat in /lfg asking over and over. I won't say this never happens in Mid, but it happens in Alb a WHOLE lot worse and it isn't even close. Once or twice I could see...6-7 times? Nah that's an issue that needs cleaned up.

I wish you luck but currently all 3 realms are pretty well even if everyone actually comes out and play.

No one wants to roll with one Cleric when the enemy realm will have 3-6 healers per group
No one wants a Scout, Inf, Necro, Friar group when the enemy realms will have instant CC that can essentially delete them from the game if purge is not up
No one wants to run without main CC

PBT, Endurance, H/C/M resists are already things Albs say "ok we can forfeit" on. Mids and Hibs don't have that problem.

If you put Bards, Wardens and Healers in Alb, you wouldn't have this problem
Tue 26 Feb 2019 2:00 AM by Seige
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:27 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:16 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 12:47 AM
This.

Every realm can sit here and talk about how many classes need to be nerfed or how their realm needs a buff.

Albion has things that neither Hib nor Mid have as do those 2 realms.

If you want to bring this up the other 2 realms can bring up a dozen more on why Alb is ok or maybe even needs a nerf.

Nope. If you go 1 for 1 eventually the Alb list of "advantages" runs out.

This has also been discussed through beta along with a multitude of other things.

You are Alb so of course you feel like you get the short end of the stick.

Personally, until Albs actually start doing some RvR and stop waiting for the "perfect" group to form I don't feel sorry for them. As I stated on antoher post, I played Alb and I had a 50 Cleric and I got tired of waiting because the 7 of us weren't enough apparently and they didn't want to grab a Friar or Necro, they were dead set on having a Theurg or a second Sorc.

Instead of blaming your realms problems on a lack of CC, how about Alb's just come out and play for awhile and see how you do. I love hearing how Alb's quit coming out because they were only getting rolled, while Hib might get rolled for hours but they still come out, and then Hibs will dominate and Mids will get rolled bu they still come out.

So essentially you have no counter points to discuss. Nothing constructive to add to the conversation.. Thanks much.
ignored.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 2:06 AM by Quik
LOL

Well ignore all you want, we'll see how the GM's respond.

If they give you what congratulations...otherwise how about you actually just come out and play instead of blaming your problems on something. YOU picked Alb now play Alb...I tried to play Alb and got tired of the players there and moved on. I had no issues with CC or lack of, just the players.

I guess I should be screaming that Mids don't have something I want and hope that the GM's give it to me...
Tue 26 Feb 2019 2:10 AM by teiloh
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 2:06 AM
LOL

Well ignore all you want, we'll see how the GM's respond.

They've already buffed Friars and Paladins and it sounds like more Friar buffs are on the way.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 2:15 AM by Quik
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 2:10 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 2:06 AM
LOL

Well ignore all you want, we'll see how the GM's respond.

They've already buffed Friars and Paladins and it sounds like more Friar buffs are on the way.

I hope they add the Friar procs from later on, I always loved the Friar but hated it was always left behind, kind of like VW.

At least Thanes have found a place in Mid and are much more accepted.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:15 AM by jhaerik
teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:23 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:13 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:07 PM
Bolt mez is good in zergs when no one is paying attention and you have a ton of Sorcs, but in zergs extra healers should be Spamnesia'ing if they are having trouble with Alb mez.

His point still stands.

with the amount of pets albs have you wont spam amnesia for long tho

In a zerg? You have probably 12 people capable of using Amnesia and 12 of nearsight, and Mid outnumbers Alb by at least 5 fgs at primetime.

It won't be a problem.

Well if you'd all get off your necros and dot cabbies, get out of pve, and go rvr this wouldn't be a problem.

Or, how about this.... let melee into groups?
The lot of you would have more luck if you'd stop trying to PUG debuff assist nuke comps without voice...
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:24 AM by teiloh
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:15 AM
Well if you'd all get off your necros and dot cabbies, get out of pve, and go rvr this wouldn't be a problem.

Or, how about this.... let melee into groups?
The lot of you would have more luck if you'd stop trying to PUG debuff assist nuke comps without voice...

Mid outnumbers Alb because people prefer Easy Mode. And if you're claiming more people in Mid use voice, I'd like to see proof of that.

Not everyone has a modernagrav equivalent with AE stun and SM intercept. Leveling in Mid is literally the easiest thing ever, other than maybe Animist spam.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:33 AM by gruenesschaf
Like it was said in the other thread regarding this, the reason why there is a discrepancy is the missing classes as we took the distribution from current live NNF. It hasn't been changed so far as, except maybe ST on menta, it really has no effect if you consider how likely a given class is to be in a group / take group compositions into account.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:49 AM by defiasbandit
Give Wizard Ichor. 10 minute purge is r.i.p.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 10:47 AM by jhaerik
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:24 AM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:15 AM
Well if you'd all get off your necros and dot cabbies, get out of pve, and go rvr this wouldn't be a problem.

Or, how about this.... let melee into groups?
The lot of you would have more luck if you'd stop trying to PUG debuff assist nuke comps without voice...

Mid outnumbers Alb because people prefer Easy Mode. And if you're claiming more people in Mid use voice, I'd like to see proof of that.

Not everyone has a modernagrav equivalent with AE stun and SM intercept. Leveling in Mid is literally the easiest thing ever, other than maybe Animist spam.

You just said Mid outnumbers Alb. Now you are saying Mids don't have more people in voice? Seriously man you don't seem to know which side of the argument you are on from one statement to the next.

Want to know why alb has fewer players? it's because they are notoriously bad for excluding classes from RvR'ing. It's a running joke in Mid /advice that Alb only has 6 classes. Cleric/Sorc/Cabby/Theurg/Mini/Arms From my brief experience Alb side here, years Alb side in the past, as well as lots of time RvR'ing as Mid recently... this holds true.

Mid's group Thanes.
Alb's don't group Reavers/ Paladins.

Mid's Group Runies/SM's/BD's
Alb's exclude Necros and Wizards.

Mid's Group Warriors/Zerkers/Savages
Alb's rarely group Merc's

Mid Groups Shaman's/Healers
Alb's rarely group Friars.

Simply put not everyone wants to run one of those 6 classes to get to play the game... so they go Mid/Hib.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 3:08 PM by Seige
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 10:47 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:24 AM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:15 AM
Well if you'd all get off your necros and dot cabbies, get out of pve, and go rvr this wouldn't be a problem.

Or, how about this.... let melee into groups?
The lot of you would have more luck if you'd stop trying to PUG debuff assist nuke comps without voice...

Mid outnumbers Alb because people prefer Easy Mode. And if you're claiming more people in Mid use voice, I'd like to see proof of that.

Not everyone has a modernagrav equivalent with AE stun and SM intercept. Leveling in Mid is literally the easiest thing ever, other than maybe Animist spam.

You just said Mid outnumbers Alb. Now you are saying Mids don't have more people in voice? Seriously man you don't seem to know which side of the argument you are on from one statement to the next.

Want to know why alb has fewer players? it's because they are notoriously bad for excluding classes from RvR'ing. It's a running joke in Mid /advice that Alb only has 6 classes. Cleric/Sorc/Cabby/Theurg/Mini/Arms From my brief experience Alb side here, years Alb side in the past, as well as lots of time RvR'ing as Mid recently... this holds true.

Mid's group Thanes.
Alb's don't group Reavers/ Paladins.

Mid's Group Runies/SM's/BD's
Alb's exclude Necros and Wizards.

Mid's Group Warriors/Zerkers/Savages
Alb's rarely group Merc's

Mid Groups Shaman's/Healers
Alb's rarely group Friars.

Simply put not everyone wants to run one of those 6 classes to get to play the game... so they go Mid/Hib.

You do understand why Alb is so choosy on what classes are run in the preferable 8 man?
Unlike Mid or Hib, our flexibility is limited. There are several other threads that explain the basic group comps Albs have to put together. So I am not going to repeat them. Please feel free to look around. Once again this isn't a numbers discussion. This thread wasn't posted with a whine about fixing the numbers issues or getting more Alb players to come out and RvR. This thread was posted to fix the imbalance of CC RAs when you look at ALb capabilities with the CC they have been given. If Alb had twice the numbers out in RvR than mid or hib combined, their lack of insta aoe cc's would still be imbalanced. Thanks for the read though?
Tue 26 Feb 2019 3:17 PM by Seige
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:33 AM
Like it was said in the other thread regarding this, the reason why there is a discrepancy is the missing classes as we took the distribution from current live NNF. It hasn't been changed so far as, except maybe ST on menta, it really has no effect if you consider how likely a given class is to be in a group / take group compositions into account.

You mean there aren't many Animist VWs or Elds out rolling around so you gave Icor to 3 of HIb? Not arguing with your reasoning just seems a little strange to give more cc to the realm that has the most to attempt to promote more people to play those classes. I do agree there are very few Vws. But seems to be a healthy population of the rest when i use /serverinfo. In fact Mercs seems to be on the bottom with VWs at any given time. So since very few people play Merc, how likely are we to receive a CC RA for them?
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:17 PM by teiloh
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 10:47 AM
Want to know why alb has fewer players? it's because they are notoriously bad for excluding classes from RvR'ing. It's a running joke in Mid /advice that Alb only has 6 classes. Cleric/Sorc/Cabby/Theurg/Mini/Arms From my brief experience Alb side here, years Alb side in the past, as well as lots of time RvR'ing as Mid recently... this holds true.

Mid's group Thanes.
Alb's don't group Reavers/ Paladins.

Mid's Group Runies/SM's/BD's
Alb's exclude Necros and Wizards.

Mid's Group Warriors/Zerkers/Savages
Alb's rarely group Merc's

Mid Groups Shaman's/Healers
Alb's rarely group Friars.

Simply put not everyone wants to run one of those 6 classes to get to play the game... so they go Mid/Hib.

lol. If you needed 7 classes to get what Mid gets with 5, you'd be picky too.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:21 PM by jhaerik
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:17 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 10:47 AM
Want to know why alb has fewer players? it's because they are notoriously bad for excluding classes from RvR'ing. It's a running joke in Mid /advice that Alb only has 6 classes. Cleric/Sorc/Cabby/Theurg/Mini/Arms From my brief experience Alb side here, years Alb side in the past, as well as lots of time RvR'ing as Mid recently... this holds true.

Mid's group Thanes.
Alb's don't group Reavers/ Paladins.

Mid's Group Runies/SM's/BD's
Alb's exclude Necros and Wizards.

Mid's Group Warriors/Zerkers/Savages
Alb's rarely group Merc's

Mid Groups Shaman's/Healers
Alb's rarely group Friars.

Simply put not everyone wants to run one of those 6 classes to get to play the game... so they go Mid/Hib.

lol. If you needed 7 classes to get what Mid gets with 5, you'd be picky too.

Well that being picky is why you have less players.

You guys have some of the best melee/hybrids in the game... but you won't run melee groups. You have a 250 AF debuff, but you wan't group it. You have ABS debuff, but you won't group it. You are playing in a ruleset where bolts 2 shots castets, but you won't group your Bolt caster with green NS. You realize you can run sidecars right? That's a common theme in Mid/Hib.

You guys have a terrible habit that you just play it like Live... and that doesn't always work here. That's why you are under pop.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:25 PM by jhaerik
Seige wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 3:08 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 10:47 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 8:24 AM
Mid outnumbers Alb because people prefer Easy Mode. And if you're claiming more people in Mid use voice, I'd like to see proof of that.

Not everyone has a modernagrav equivalent with AE stun and SM intercept. Leveling in Mid is literally the easiest thing ever, other than maybe Animist spam.

You just said Mid outnumbers Alb. Now you are saying Mids don't have more people in voice? Seriously man you don't seem to know which side of the argument you are on from one statement to the next.

Want to know why alb has fewer players? it's because they are notoriously bad for excluding classes from RvR'ing. It's a running joke in Mid /advice that Alb only has 6 classes. Cleric/Sorc/Cabby/Theurg/Mini/Arms From my brief experience Alb side here, years Alb side in the past, as well as lots of time RvR'ing as Mid recently... this holds true.

Mid's group Thanes.
Alb's don't group Reavers/ Paladins.

Mid's Group Runies/SM's/BD's
Alb's exclude Necros and Wizards.

Mid's Group Warriors/Zerkers/Savages
Alb's rarely group Merc's

Mid Groups Shaman's/Healers
Alb's rarely group Friars.

Simply put not everyone wants to run one of those 6 classes to get to play the game... so they go Mid/Hib.

You do understand why Alb is so choosy on what classes are run in the preferable 8 man?
Unlike Mid or Hib, our flexibility is limited. There are several other threads that explain the basic group comps Albs have to put together. So I am not going to repeat them. Please feel free to look around. Once again this isn't a numbers discussion. This thread wasn't posted with a whine about fixing the numbers issues or getting more Alb players to come out and RvR. This thread was posted to fix the imbalance of CC RAs when you look at ALb capabilities with the CC they have been given. If Alb had twice the numbers out in RvR than mid or hib combined, their lack of insta aoe cc's would still be imbalanced. Thanks for the read though?

Again see the above post. This isn't an 8v8 duel server. This isn't live. Run a sidecar and you have everything you need.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 10:30 PM by Salviati
Even the discussions are classic. This thread is a portal back to 2002. Alb is still broken, other people still deny it. Albs still underperform. People still excuse it away.

I've given my suggestions and they've gone ignored.

The paladin buffs were functionally useless and I said they would be before live and here we are. The devs decided to give away the only edge albion had in group RvR and that was SoS. Group utility is still low. The realm has all the versatility of about 1 spot in RvR groups, and that versatility is woefully minuscule.

I've given up finding consistent groups capable of decent RvR. I've been in about 3 groups total since the server launched where I could say my group members had any clue what was going on. I was even grouped with an idiotic sorc who was mad I was peeling for him instead of joining the assist train. Needless to say he never landed any mezzes. But such is the state in Albion right now. Therefore I've decided to spend the bulk of my RvR time soloing, but then I'm running into a chain of assassins who all have 2 purges, a get out of jail free card, a choose when to go to jail card, mastery of arms and mastery of pain all by realm rank 5, running around fully buffed with cheap 75 spec stat buffs thinking they're good or something while they mow down fully buffed plate tanks in 6-10 seconds when they shouldn't even be fucking with them without a friend or two. But guess what? They have a friend or two anyway. And if by some miracle you get the upper hand, they vanish away and leave you staggering around with a disease that last 2 minutes.

So, to fix some things:

-Improve theurgists to be capable as the primary CC solution in melee-centric RvR compositions. Maybe not identical to sorc range, but improved duration, that way sorcs aren't mandatory and free up a space for albion to decide based on needs (sorc for caster comps, theurgist for melee comps).
-Return class specific RAs to their respective classes. Alb needs exclusive access to SoS. Savage groups should NEVER FUCKING EVER have access to SOS in the classic design. That's absurdly stupid.
-Improve Paladin utility. I know the devs don't want to equalize all the realms in a generic fashion and don't want to give celerity to paladins, so give them an ablative chant or some such thing, something. Utility, not spec points and damage table were the problem with Paladins, especially since they're trivialized by a one gold piece potion charge.
-Remove vanish from the game or return it to its respective class. Same with viper.
-Create immunity timers for purged poison effects.
-Increase the cost of purge and most RAs across the board.
-Remove endurance potions from the game. I'd say remove buffs entirely because it trivializes many classes (Champions/Wardens/Friars/Thanes/Smite/Cave Shamans etc).
Tue 26 Feb 2019 10:34 PM by Seige
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:25 PM
Seige wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 3:08 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 10:47 AM
You just said Mid outnumbers Alb. Now you are saying Mids don't have more people in voice? Seriously man you don't seem to know which side of the argument you are on from one statement to the next.

Want to know why alb has fewer players? it's because they are notoriously bad for excluding classes from RvR'ing. It's a running joke in Mid /advice that Alb only has 6 classes. Cleric/Sorc/Cabby/Theurg/Mini/Arms From my brief experience Alb side here, years Alb side in the past, as well as lots of time RvR'ing as Mid recently... this holds true.

Mid's group Thanes.
Alb's don't group Reavers/ Paladins.

Mid's Group Runies/SM's/BD's
Alb's exclude Necros and Wizards.

Mid's Group Warriors/Zerkers/Savages
Alb's rarely group Merc's

Mid Groups Shaman's/Healers
Alb's rarely group Friars.

Simply put not everyone wants to run one of those 6 classes to get to play the game... so they go Mid/Hib.

You do understand why Alb is so choosy on what classes are run in the preferable 8 man?
Unlike Mid or Hib, our flexibility is limited. There are several other threads that explain the basic group comps Albs have to put together. So I am not going to repeat them. Please feel free to look around. Once again this isn't a numbers discussion. This thread wasn't posted with a whine about fixing the numbers issues or getting more Alb players to come out and RvR. This thread was posted to fix the imbalance of CC RAs when you look at ALb capabilities with the CC they have been given. If Alb had twice the numbers out in RvR than mid or hib combined, their lack of insta aoe cc's would still be imbalanced. Thanks for the read though?

Again see the above post. This isn't an 8v8 duel server. This isn't live. Run a sidecar and you have everything you need.

Lmao I going to take this as satire. You sir are funny.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:16 PM by Seige
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:21 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:17 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 10:47 AM
Want to know why alb has fewer players? it's because they are notoriously bad for excluding classes from RvR'ing. It's a running joke in Mid /advice that Alb only has 6 classes. Cleric/Sorc/Cabby/Theurg/Mini/Arms From my brief experience Alb side here, years Alb side in the past, as well as lots of time RvR'ing as Mid recently... this holds true.

Mid's group Thanes.
Alb's don't group Reavers/ Paladins.

Mid's Group Runies/SM's/BD's
Alb's exclude Necros and Wizards.

Mid's Group Warriors/Zerkers/Savages
Alb's rarely group Merc's

Mid Groups Shaman's/Healers
Alb's rarely group Friars.

Simply put not everyone wants to run one of those 6 classes to get to play the game... so they go Mid/Hib.

lol. If you needed 7 classes to get what Mid gets with 5, you'd be picky too.

Well that being picky is why you have less players.

You guys have some of the best melee/hybrids in the game... but you won't run melee groups. You have a 250 AF debuff, but you wan't group it. You have ABS debuff, but you won't group it. You are playing in a ruleset where bolts 2 shots castets, but you won't group your Bolt caster with green NS. You realize you can run sidecars right? That's a common theme in Mid/Hib.

You guys have a terrible habit that you just play it like Live... and that doesn't always work here. That's why you are under pop.

Why are you so stuck on the underpop thing? I for one rerolled from Mid b/c I like playing the underpop realm. Also they are the only realm I haven't played on live. I feel like you had some bad experiences with finding groups on Alb. I can't empathize with you.. Sorry I and my guild (mostly) knew what classes were needed in RvR and we rolled those. We have a pretty good group imo. Would it be nice to sub in another melee for peels or for damage? Yah it would be great.. But you come full circle to part of the problem.

Which essential class are we going to have to give up inorder to roll said 'unpopular' class. Is a necro going to bring more to our group than the cabby? the sorc? the thuerg? What about a Infil? Scout? Friar? So on so forth.. Hopefully you can wrap your head around this.. You need multiple things in order to be successful in RvR (generally there are always exceptions) Heals, CC, Speed.. Welp on ALB that is 4 People.. Lets see on Hib its Druid/druid/bard Wow 3.. On mid its Healer/Healer/Skald wow 3. Now lets go further into this.. You want grp utility as Alb.. You need a Cabby for multiple reasons. Lets break them down since you obviously don't care to educate yourself. Cabbys have NS, Root, snare, Debuff, a pet, and damage. Those debuffs also go hand in hand with Sorcs main damage.. Why does that matter? Because Sorc is the best CC class for Alb. That is for the most part their most important job. Unless your running 2 sorcs for the debuff cabby which is a whole other topic.

So we have filled 2 clerics for the heals/buffs in our group. Which you could replace 1 with a friar. Why though? What do you get from a friar? Well you miss out on insta heals thats for sure. Your spread heals not near as good.. Oh yah you dont get DI,PR, or BoF. See the point? No ok lets further elaborate. We are at 2 Clerics(because thats the best currently) now we throw in a Sorc for our CC.. Currently they are the best cc class ALB has. Could we replace them with a thuerg? Yah theurgs get AoE mez. So why not? Lets see a theurg gets a 1500 range mez if they spec wind spec.. And a single target root baseline cold.. Great thats 2 forms of CC plus stun pets you say. Welp heres the issue. Sorcs get an AoE mez with 1875 range. A single target mez. A 2300 amnesia (casted). Debuffs/Disease/single target root/ AoE root(depending on how you spec obviously.

So why take the 2nd best option for CC? If your looking to rvr as a good 8 man group you don't its that simple. You try to fill the group first imo with people you enjoy playing with then fill those specific needed roles in the group with the best possible class for the job.. Sorry to burst your lets be inclusive bubble, but this is a GAME. A game that is being played by most of us to RvR. And sure some people don't care about winning in RvR its all enjoyable to them, but I'd argue the vast majority do.

TL/DR
You sir must be trolling or you clearly don't understand the game.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:29 PM by Afuldan
I always thought that the balance of RvR shifted heavily against Alb when SoS was introduced to every realm. The classes have lower utility, because they used to be the only ones to have SoS so they could get out of a bad position or ambush etc.
Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:30 PM by cuuchulain79
How about swapping WoC for bedazzling aura on pally...? They already have a DMG RA with AoTG.

Thane and champ both get 1 utility and 1 DMG active RA...even that out on pally...I mean...nobody is going to spec both AoTG and WoC...but bedazzling aura would be useful and IMO, balanced.

Then remove bedazzling aura from theurg, and give them ichor.

I don't know...?
Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:38 PM by Seige
cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:30 PM
How about swapping WoC for bedazzling aura on pally...? They already have a DMG RA with AoTG.

Thane and champ both get 1 utility and 1 DMG active RA...even that out on pally...I mean...nobody is going to spec both AoTG and WoC...but bedazzling aura would be useful and IMO, balanced.

Then remove bedazzling aura from theurg, and give them ichor.

I don't know...?

Sounds like a good idea. Lets keep pumping the ideas out there.. Maybe they will get seen.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 12:58 AM by teiloh
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:21 PM
Well that being picky is why you have less players.

You guys have some of the best melee/hybrids in the game... but you won't run melee groups. You have a 250 AF debuff, but you wan't group it. You have ABS debuff, but you won't group it. You are playing in a ruleset where bolts 2 shots castets, but you won't group your Bolt caster with green NS. You realize you can run sidecars right? That's a common theme in Mid/Hib.

You guys have a terrible habit that you just play it like Live... and that doesn't always work here. That's why you are under pop.

By "some of the best melee/hybrids in the game" you mean they're no better than Thanes/VW ... you'd be right. And plenty of people are fine swapping in whatever for DPS, you just need Cleric/Cleric/Friar/Paladin/Theurgist/Sorc/Minstrel/Cabalist to get what Sham/Healer/Healer/Skald/Runie or Druid/Druid/Bard/Warden/Eld provide.

So that's:

Heals (Hib best, Alb worst)
Buffs (Mid/Hib better, Alb has more conc/buff level problems)
DZ (Mid best by far, Alb worst at ~250 radius)
NS (Mid/Hib Red, Alb Green)
PBT (Hib best)
Endo (About equal)
CC (Mid/Hib tossup, Alb worst)
Speed (Mid best, Hib 2nd, Alb least uptime/ease of use)

That's the problem.

Theurgs/Sorcs/Minstrels/Cabalists are solid. But with Clerics and Friars you get mediocre/dogshit damage lines (my BD's Warmages out DPS Friars) where other realms have useful ones, and that's the major weakness. Every Alb class has some kind of half-ass damage option where Hib and Mid have pure support, or damage, or peels, or whatever. It can work if you coordinate perfectly, e.g. manage interrupts like a pro and then call for every single person in the group to DPS spike down one target, but most people can't do it. If Mids were forced to do the same half of you would quit instantly, and from playing Mid I know it's a toxic mess and not the laughable picture of an open-minded utopia you're painting it out to be.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 1:40 AM by cuuchulain79
Hmm...I feel like a close look at smite is worthwhile...

What about changing the pbae mezz to be unaffected by resists/det/stoic? Still only a whopping 20ish sec mezz...but I think it'd help alb a lot.

I mean...clerics can mezz...what about giving them a demezz at 19 smite?

What about changing their insta pbae DMG to a insta 1350 dd?

What about make the aoe dd an aoe snare dd? With a 3.0 sec cast?
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:29 AM by jhaerik
Seige wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:16 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:21 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 6:17 PM
lol. If you needed 7 classes to get what Mid gets with 5, you'd be picky too.

Well that being picky is why you have less players.

You guys have some of the best melee/hybrids in the game... but you won't run melee groups. You have a 250 AF debuff, but you wan't group it. You have ABS debuff, but you won't group it. You are playing in a ruleset where bolts 2 shots castets, but you won't group your Bolt caster with green NS. You realize you can run sidecars right? That's a common theme in Mid/Hib.

You guys have a terrible habit that you just play it like Live... and that doesn't always work here. That's why you are under pop.

Why are you so stuck on the underpop thing? I for one rerolled from Mid b/c I like playing the underpop realm. Also they are the only realm I haven't played on live. I feel like you had some bad experiences with finding groups on Alb. I can't empathize with you.. Sorry I and my guild (mostly) knew what classes were needed in RvR and we rolled those. We have a pretty good group imo. Would it be nice to sub in another melee for peels or for damage? Yah it would be great.. But you come full circle to part of the problem.

Which essential class are we going to have to give up inorder to roll said 'unpopular' class. Is a necro going to bring more to our group than the cabby? the sorc? the thuerg? What about a Infil? Scout? Friar? So on so forth.. Hopefully you can wrap your head around this.. You need multiple things in order to be successful in RvR (generally there are always exceptions) Heals, CC, Speed.. Welp on ALB that is 4 People.. Lets see on Hib its Druid/druid/bard Wow 3.. On mid its Healer/Healer/Skald wow 3. Now lets go further into this.. You want grp utility as Alb.. You need a Cabby for multiple reasons. Lets break them down since you obviously don't care to educate yourself. Cabbys have NS, Root, snare, Debuff, a pet, and damage. Those debuffs also go hand in hand with Sorcs main damage.. Why does that matter? Because Sorc is the best CC class for Alb. That is for the most part their most important job. Unless your running 2 sorcs for the debuff cabby which is a whole other topic.

So we have filled 2 clerics for the heals/buffs in our group. Which you could replace 1 with a friar. Why though? What do you get from a friar? Well you miss out on insta heals thats for sure. Your spread heals not near as good.. Oh yah you dont get DI,PR, or BoF. See the point? No ok lets further elaborate. We are at 2 Clerics(because thats the best currently) now we throw in a Sorc for our CC.. Currently they are the best cc class ALB has. Could we replace them with a thuerg? Yah theurgs get AoE mez. So why not? Lets see a theurg gets a 1500 range mez if they spec wind spec.. And a single target root baseline cold.. Great thats 2 forms of CC plus stun pets you say. Welp heres the issue. Sorcs get an AoE mez with 1875 range. A single target mez. A 2300 amnesia (casted). Debuffs/Disease/single target root/ AoE root(depending on how you spec obviously.

So why take the 2nd best option for CC? If your looking to rvr as a good 8 man group you don't its that simple. You try to fill the group first imo with people you enjoy playing with then fill those specific needed roles in the group with the best possible class for the job.. Sorry to burst your lets be inclusive bubble, but this is a GAME. A game that is being played by most of us to RvR. And sure some people don't care about winning in RvR its all enjoyable to them, but I'd argue the vast majority do.

TL/DR
You sir must be trolling or you clearly don't understand the game.

You know what works better than the perfect 8 man comp? The perfect 8 man comp with a 4 man sidecar.

You sir don't seem to understand the game at all. You seem to be stuck in 2002 paper DAoC mode. You know what beats the perfect 8 man comp? Numbers. You know know how to get numbers? Stop excluding half your classes from groups.

In a game about RvR yall sure are hard stuck on 8v8 WoW game play.

Also the only CORE classes you need for an alb group are Mini/Sorc/Cleric/Cleric. The rest of what you guys keep naming isn't required to function. You can spread that theurg/Cabby over 2 groups and still fill in other classes. Just because you THINK daoc is only about 8v8 doesn't make it fact. Alb can make some nasty zergs.... as well as nasty stealth groups.... but instead you'd rather run your 8man caster debuff comps and leave everyone else out to dry. And it shows.

My suggestion.. is for all those albs that can't gets a group... roll over to mid.. we'll invite ya... and go roll some alb 8 mans with 3 fg's

Again typical Alb mindset:
1) Exclude half their classes from grouping...
2) Log into forums to complain about not having enough people in RvR...
3) Proceed to come up with 20 excuses to not to invite "X" class...
4) Defend this to the death without ever catching the irony of it....

To this day it boggles my mind.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:43 AM by MadsHoha
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:33 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 1:27 AM
This has also been discussed through beta along with a multitude of other things.

You are Alb so of course you feel like you get the short end of the stick.

Personally, until Albs actually start doing some RvR and stop waiting for the "perfect" group to form I don't feel sorry for them. As I stated on antoher post, I played Alb and I had a 50 Cleric and I got tired of waiting because the 7 of us weren't enough apparently and they didn't want to grab a Friar or Necro, they were dead set on having a Theurg or a second Sorc.

Instead of blaming your realms problems on a lack of CC, how about Alb's just come out and play for awhile and see how you do. I love hearing how Alb's quit coming out because they were only getting rolled, while Hib might get rolled for hours but they still come out, and then Hibs will dominate and Mids will get rolled bu they still come out.

No, I know the game better than most people so I can see that Alb is at a disadvantage. And you think Albs wait for a "perfect group" (no, they don't, they just need a base of 5-6) for fun? Or because they know they'll be at a severe disadvantage otherwise?

Your personal experience with bad pugs is not relevant.

This is an almost 20 year old game, you saying you have more experience than most is about the most ignorant thing I've heard you say in this thread and there's quite a list of ignorant tidbits of yours to choose from. Get over yourself, stop whining and play.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:51 AM by teiloh
MadsHoha wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:43 AM
This is an almost 20 year old game, you saying you have more experience than most is about the most ignorant thing I've heard you say in this thread and there's quite a list of ignorant tidbits of yours to choose from. Get over yourself, stop whining and play.

Did a statement of fact trigger you? I know more about the game than you do, and not because I played it longer.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:55 AM by jhaerik
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:51 AM
MadsHoha wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:43 AM
This is an almost 20 year old game, you saying you have more experience than most is about the most ignorant thing I've heard you say in this thread and there's quite a list of ignorant tidbits of yours to choose from. Get over yourself, stop whining and play.

Did a statement of fact trigger you? I know more about the game than you do, and not because I played it longer.

You sure about that? You are still struggling with the math behind 16>8. Most of us figured that out years ago.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:57 AM by MadsHoha
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:51 AM
MadsHoha wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:43 AM
This is an almost 20 year old game, you saying you have more experience than most is about the most ignorant thing I've heard you say in this thread and there's quite a list of ignorant tidbits of yours to choose from. Get over yourself, stop whining and play.

Did a statement of fact trigger you? I know more about the game than you do, and not because I played it longer.

😂 You're a funny guy, keep living in your fantasy world there champ.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:09 AM by teiloh
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:55 AM
You sure about that? You are still struggling with the math behind 16>8. Most of us figured that out years ago.

jhaerik's solution to class balance: find more people!

It was a nice joke, you were already laughed out of the thread.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 4:33 PM by Seige
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:29 AM
Seige wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:16 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 9:21 PM
Well that being picky is why you have less players.

You guys have some of the best melee/hybrids in the game... but you won't run melee groups. You have a 250 AF debuff, but you wan't group it. You have ABS debuff, but you won't group it. You are playing in a ruleset where bolts 2 shots castets, but you won't group your Bolt caster with green NS. You realize you can run sidecars right? That's a common theme in Mid/Hib.

You guys have a terrible habit that you just play it like Live... and that doesn't always work here. That's why you are under pop.

Why are you so stuck on the underpop thing? I for one rerolled from Mid b/c I like playing the underpop realm. Also they are the only realm I haven't played on live. I feel like you had some bad experiences with finding groups on Alb. I can't empathize with you.. Sorry I and my guild (mostly) knew what classes were needed in RvR and we rolled those. We have a pretty good group imo. Would it be nice to sub in another melee for peels or for damage? Yah it would be great.. But you come full circle to part of the problem.

Which essential class are we going to have to give up inorder to roll said 'unpopular' class. Is a necro going to bring more to our group than the cabby? the sorc? the thuerg? What about a Infil? Scout? Friar? So on so forth.. Hopefully you can wrap your head around this.. You need multiple things in order to be successful in RvR (generally there are always exceptions) Heals, CC, Speed.. Welp on ALB that is 4 People.. Lets see on Hib its Druid/druid/bard Wow 3.. On mid its Healer/Healer/Skald wow 3. Now lets go further into this.. You want grp utility as Alb.. You need a Cabby for multiple reasons. Lets break them down since you obviously don't care to educate yourself. Cabbys have NS, Root, snare, Debuff, a pet, and damage. Those debuffs also go hand in hand with Sorcs main damage.. Why does that matter? Because Sorc is the best CC class for Alb. That is for the most part their most important job. Unless your running 2 sorcs for the debuff cabby which is a whole other topic.

So we have filled 2 clerics for the heals/buffs in our group. Which you could replace 1 with a friar. Why though? What do you get from a friar? Well you miss out on insta heals thats for sure. Your spread heals not near as good.. Oh yah you dont get DI,PR, or BoF. See the point? No ok lets further elaborate. We are at 2 Clerics(because thats the best currently) now we throw in a Sorc for our CC.. Currently they are the best cc class ALB has. Could we replace them with a thuerg? Yah theurgs get AoE mez. So why not? Lets see a theurg gets a 1500 range mez if they spec wind spec.. And a single target root baseline cold.. Great thats 2 forms of CC plus stun pets you say. Welp heres the issue. Sorcs get an AoE mez with 1875 range. A single target mez. A 2300 amnesia (casted). Debuffs/Disease/single target root/ AoE root(depending on how you spec obviously.

So why take the 2nd best option for CC? If your looking to rvr as a good 8 man group you don't its that simple. You try to fill the group first imo with people you enjoy playing with then fill those specific needed roles in the group with the best possible class for the job.. Sorry to burst your lets be inclusive bubble, but this is a GAME. A game that is being played by most of us to RvR. And sure some people don't care about winning in RvR its all enjoyable to them, but I'd argue the vast majority do.

TL/DR
You sir must be trolling or you clearly don't understand the game.

You know what works better than the perfect 8 man comp? The perfect 8 man comp with a 4 man sidecar.

You sir don't seem to understand the game at all. You seem to be stuck in 2002 paper DAoC mode. You know what beats the perfect 8 man comp? Numbers. You know know how to get numbers? Stop excluding half your classes from groups.

In a game about RvR yall sure are hard stuck on 8v8 WoW game play.

Also the only CORE classes you need for an alb group are Mini/Sorc/Cleric/Cleric. The rest of what you guys keep naming isn't required to function. You can spread that theurg/Cabby over 2 groups and still fill in other classes. Just because you THINK daoc is only about 8v8 doesn't make it fact. Alb can make some nasty zergs.... as well as nasty stealth groups.... but instead you'd rather run your 8man caster debuff comps and leave everyone else out to dry. And it shows.

My suggestion.. is for all those albs that can't gets a group... roll over to mid.. we'll invite ya... and go roll some alb 8 mans with 3 fg's

Again typical Alb mindset:
1) Exclude half their classes from grouping...
2) Log into forums to complain about not having enough people in RvR...
3) Proceed to come up with 20 excuses to not to invite "X" class...
4) Defend this to the death without ever catching the irony of it....

To this day it boggles my mind.

Once again no one has logged into the forums and complained about not having enough people but you. Maybe you should reread the thread. I seriously doubt you are going to be able grasp the concept of this thread. I also think that you are inexperienced with the full scope of Daoc. Adding more numbers to the inherit problem that ALB has to field more classes to accomplish the same class comps as hib or mid is the problem. If you have 500 mids/500hibs/500Albs all fighting you will still have the same problem.. Those alb groups within that zerg have had to sacrifice which classes they want in order to function at optimal levels. If they don't their group is substantially weaker. But once again, I doubt you will understand.. So, thanks for your input into the thread no matter how off topic it has been. Please enjoy your zerg.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 4:35 PM by jhaerik
Seige wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 4:33 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:29 AM
Seige wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Feb 2019 11:16 PM
Why are you so stuck on the underpop thing? I for one rerolled from Mid b/c I like playing the underpop realm. Also they are the only realm I haven't played on live. I feel like you had some bad experiences with finding groups on Alb. I can't empathize with you.. Sorry I and my guild (mostly) knew what classes were needed in RvR and we rolled those. We have a pretty good group imo. Would it be nice to sub in another melee for peels or for damage? Yah it would be great.. But you come full circle to part of the problem.

Which essential class are we going to have to give up inorder to roll said 'unpopular' class. Is a necro going to bring more to our group than the cabby? the sorc? the thuerg? What about a Infil? Scout? Friar? So on so forth.. Hopefully you can wrap your head around this.. You need multiple things in order to be successful in RvR (generally there are always exceptions) Heals, CC, Speed.. Welp on ALB that is 4 People.. Lets see on Hib its Druid/druid/bard Wow 3.. On mid its Healer/Healer/Skald wow 3. Now lets go further into this.. You want grp utility as Alb.. You need a Cabby for multiple reasons. Lets break them down since you obviously don't care to educate yourself. Cabbys have NS, Root, snare, Debuff, a pet, and damage. Those debuffs also go hand in hand with Sorcs main damage.. Why does that matter? Because Sorc is the best CC class for Alb. That is for the most part their most important job. Unless your running 2 sorcs for the debuff cabby which is a whole other topic.

So we have filled 2 clerics for the heals/buffs in our group. Which you could replace 1 with a friar. Why though? What do you get from a friar? Well you miss out on insta heals thats for sure. Your spread heals not near as good.. Oh yah you dont get DI,PR, or BoF. See the point? No ok lets further elaborate. We are at 2 Clerics(because thats the best currently) now we throw in a Sorc for our CC.. Currently they are the best cc class ALB has. Could we replace them with a thuerg? Yah theurgs get AoE mez. So why not? Lets see a theurg gets a 1500 range mez if they spec wind spec.. And a single target root baseline cold.. Great thats 2 forms of CC plus stun pets you say. Welp heres the issue. Sorcs get an AoE mez with 1875 range. A single target mez. A 2300 amnesia (casted). Debuffs/Disease/single target root/ AoE root(depending on how you spec obviously.

So why take the 2nd best option for CC? If your looking to rvr as a good 8 man group you don't its that simple. You try to fill the group first imo with people you enjoy playing with then fill those specific needed roles in the group with the best possible class for the job.. Sorry to burst your lets be inclusive bubble, but this is a GAME. A game that is being played by most of us to RvR. And sure some people don't care about winning in RvR its all enjoyable to them, but I'd argue the vast majority do.

TL/DR
You sir must be trolling or you clearly don't understand the game.

You know what works better than the perfect 8 man comp? The perfect 8 man comp with a 4 man sidecar.

You sir don't seem to understand the game at all. You seem to be stuck in 2002 paper DAoC mode. You know what beats the perfect 8 man comp? Numbers. You know know how to get numbers? Stop excluding half your classes from groups.

In a game about RvR yall sure are hard stuck on 8v8 WoW game play.

Also the only CORE classes you need for an alb group are Mini/Sorc/Cleric/Cleric. The rest of what you guys keep naming isn't required to function. You can spread that theurg/Cabby over 2 groups and still fill in other classes. Just because you THINK daoc is only about 8v8 doesn't make it fact. Alb can make some nasty zergs.... as well as nasty stealth groups.... but instead you'd rather run your 8man caster debuff comps and leave everyone else out to dry. And it shows.

My suggestion.. is for all those albs that can't gets a group... roll over to mid.. we'll invite ya... and go roll some alb 8 mans with 3 fg's

Again typical Alb mindset:
1) Exclude half their classes from grouping...
2) Log into forums to complain about not having enough people in RvR...
3) Proceed to come up with 20 excuses to not to invite "X" class...
4) Defend this to the death without ever catching the irony of it....

To this day it boggles my mind.

Once again no one has logged into the forums and complained about not having enough people but you. Maybe you should reread the thread. I seriously doubt you are going to be able grasp the concept of this thread. I also think that you are inexperienced with the full scope of Daoc. Adding more numbers to the inherit problem that ALB has to field more classes to accomplish the same class comps as hib or mid is the problem. If you have 500 mids/500hibs/500Albs all fighting you will still have the same problem.. Those alb groups within that zerg have had to sacrifice which classes they want in order to function at optimal levels. If they don't their group is substantially weaker. But once again, I doubt you will understand.. So, thanks for your input into the thread no matter how off topic it has been. Please enjoy your zerg.

WHy would I complain about not having enough people? I'm a mid lol.

Seriously you seem to have lost track of who is who.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 4:46 PM by Seige
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 4:35 PM
Seige wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 4:33 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:29 AM
You know what works better than the perfect 8 man comp? The perfect 8 man comp with a 4 man sidecar.

You sir don't seem to understand the game at all. You seem to be stuck in 2002 paper DAoC mode. You know what beats the perfect 8 man comp? Numbers. You know know how to get numbers? Stop excluding half your classes from groups.

In a game about RvR yall sure are hard stuck on 8v8 WoW game play.

Also the only CORE classes you need for an alb group are Mini/Sorc/Cleric/Cleric. The rest of what you guys keep naming isn't required to function. You can spread that theurg/Cabby over 2 groups and still fill in other classes. Just because you THINK daoc is only about 8v8 doesn't make it fact. Alb can make some nasty zergs.... as well as nasty stealth groups.... but instead you'd rather run your 8man caster debuff comps and leave everyone else out to dry. And it shows.

My suggestion.. is for all those albs that can't gets a group... roll over to mid.. we'll invite ya... and go roll some alb 8 mans with 3 fg's

Again typical Alb mindset:
1) Exclude half their classes from grouping...
2) Log into forums to complain about not having enough people in RvR...
3) Proceed to come up with 20 excuses to not to invite "X" class...
4) Defend this to the death without ever catching the irony of it....

To this day it boggles my mind.

Once again no one has logged into the forums and complained about not having enough people but you. Maybe you should reread the thread. I seriously doubt you are going to be able grasp the concept of this thread. I also think that you are inexperienced with the full scope of Daoc. Adding more numbers to the inherit problem that ALB has to field more classes to accomplish the same class comps as hib or mid is the problem. If you have 500 mids/500hibs/500Albs all fighting you will still have the same problem.. Those alb groups within that zerg have had to sacrifice which classes they want in order to function at optimal levels. If they don't their group is substantially weaker. But once again, I doubt you will understand.. So, thanks for your input into the thread no matter how off topic it has been. Please enjoy your zerg.

WHy would I complain about not having enough people? I'm a mid lol.

Seriously you seem to have lost track of who is who.

Ugh dude. My brain hurts trying to imagine the lack of reading comprehension you are displaying. Not engaging anymore. /ignored for my sanity.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:35 PM by jhaerik
Seige wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 4:46 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 4:35 PM
Seige wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 4:33 PM
Once again no one has logged into the forums and complained about not having enough people but you. Maybe you should reread the thread. I seriously doubt you are going to be able grasp the concept of this thread. I also think that you are inexperienced with the full scope of Daoc. Adding more numbers to the inherit problem that ALB has to field more classes to accomplish the same class comps as hib or mid is the problem. If you have 500 mids/500hibs/500Albs all fighting you will still have the same problem.. Those alb groups within that zerg have had to sacrifice which classes they want in order to function at optimal levels. If they don't their group is substantially weaker. But once again, I doubt you will understand.. So, thanks for your input into the thread no matter how off topic it has been. Please enjoy your zerg.

WHy would I complain about not having enough people? I'm a mid lol.

Seriously you seem to have lost track of who is who.

Ugh dude. My brain hurts trying to imagine the lack of reading comprehension you are displaying. Not engaging anymore. /ignored for my sanity.

Translation:
"Oh no I have no point and wasn't paying attention who I was talking to. Time to save face and bail."

Lol.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:29 PM by Milchschnidde
Why should they get more CC, they allready got enough CC, the bad thing is they do not use theire potential...

Never saw melee setups of albs, which i think they could be pretty strong (a full tank with DET+Mezz dempening buff should be mighty). Sorc has Mezz dempening (other realms not, unique) Cleric has healproc buff (unique), i dont know why you complain, shure we could talk about the speed issue you need. usualy sorc and ministrel are needet which are 2 great CC classes, with pets, rupts etc .... CC is not only stun, mezz and root/snare CC= means crowed controll which i also count the ability to interrupt, keep targets busy.
I am playing on hib, we often run into the issue to not deliver enough dmg, we usualy run a minimum of 2 druids 1 bard, 1 tank + sometimes a warden and 3 caster -> with the issue 3 caster arent sometimtes enough to fokus enough dmg to kill a target. We did run into a lot of issues, we have CC yes but without the heat debuff + basline DD combination we lack of dmg, we have heal, cc and good resilence but no real dmg throughput. we often win by exhausting the enemy

Most issues on ALB= They ignore the bard which is a key char to hibernia groups. First target for ALB = allways BARD. But there is a myth inside the hibernian realm, we belive that albs need a brainbug to run properly, they often play chaotic. There are only a few core groups that do well.

Sorc also has 400radius on mezz.
As far as i remember Fire-Wizards should be pretty strong, but i dont know why they are not played??? EARTH wizzard, has root and snare + heat debuff+nearsight, combine it with a fire mage = the WOW effect! count sorcerer and ministral for keeping enemy supporter busy and use EARTH Wizzard + 2Firewizzards to assist = imagine the damage of 3-4 bolts when they hit = insta kill on soft targets.
2clecrics,friar, sorc, ministrel, 1 earth wizzard(44 earth 31 fire for decent dmg with baseline fire dd)+ 2 fire wizzards
(also the AOE dmg potential isnt bad) i rembered on live there was a firewizzard that did deal AOE damage as much as a bomb, shure he was high RR. (with debuff my char received criticals of 800dmg+on cap resistance)

i mean dont complain you have 2 classes which can
nearsight, cabalist and earth wizzard
! 2300 range
which counters every other spell, its like a counterspell and 65% means a 1500m mezz only works on close range of around 600-700.

just my thoughts about the issue
Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:15 PM by teiloh
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:29 PM
Why should they get more CC, they allready got enough CC, the bad thing is they do not use theire potential...

As far as i remember Fire-Wizards should be pretty strong, but i dont know why they are not played??? EARTH wizzard, has root and snare + heat debuff+nearsight, combine it with a fire mage = the WOW effect! count sorcerer and ministral for keeping enemy supporter busy and use EARTH Wizzard + 2Firewizzards to assist = imagine the damage of 3-4 bolts when they hit = insta kill on soft targets.
2clecrics,friar, sorc, ministrel, 1 earth wizzard(44 earth 31 fire for decent dmg with baseline fire dd)+ 2 fire wizzards
(also the AOE dmg potential isnt bad) i rembered on live there was a firewizzard that did deal AOE damage as much as a bomb, shure he was high RR. (with debuff my char received criticals of 800dmg+on cap resistance)

i mean dont complain you have 2 classes which can nearsight, cabalist and earth wizzard!

just my thoughts about the issue

A 3 Wizard train means you sacrifice utility and a 2 Wizard train is just a low utility version of any Hib/Mid caster group. It depends on how strong bolts are with Phoenix ruleset I suppose.

As for NS Matter is not the optimal group spec unless you're going for a very specific niche strat.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:26 PM by Milchschnidde
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:15 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:29 PM
Why should they get more CC, they allready got enough CC, the bad thing is they do not use theire potential...

As far as i remember Fire-Wizards should be pretty strong, but i dont know why they are not played??? EARTH wizzard, has root and snare + heat debuff+nearsight, combine it with a fire mage = the WOW effect! count sorcerer and ministral for keeping enemy supporter busy and use EARTH Wizzard + 2Firewizzards to assist = imagine the damage of 3-4 bolts when they hit = insta kill on soft targets.
2clecrics,friar, sorc, ministrel, 1 earth wizzard(44 earth 31 fire for decent dmg with baseline fire dd)+ 2 fire wizzards
(also the AOE dmg potential isnt bad) i rembered on live there was a firewizzard that did deal AOE damage as much as a bomb, shure he was high RR. (with debuff my char received criticals of 800dmg+on cap resistance)

i mean dont complain you have 2 classes which can nearsight, cabalist and earth wizzard!

just my thoughts about the issue

A 3 Wizard train means you sacrifice utility and a 2 Wizard train is just a low utility version of any Hib/Mid caster group. It depends on how strong bolts are with Phoenix ruleset I suppose.

As for NS Matter is not the optimal group spec unless you're going for a very specific niche strat.

What kind of more utiliy do hib caster have compared to wizzards ?
Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:50 PM by Salviati
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:15 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:29 PM
Why should they get more CC, they allready got enough CC, the bad thing is they do not use theire potential...

As far as i remember Fire-Wizards should be pretty strong, but i dont know why they are not played??? EARTH wizzard, has root and snare + heat debuff+nearsight, combine it with a fire mage = the WOW effect! count sorcerer and ministral for keeping enemy supporter busy and use EARTH Wizzard + 2Firewizzards to assist = imagine the damage of 3-4 bolts when they hit = insta kill on soft targets.
2clecrics,friar, sorc, ministrel, 1 earth wizzard(44 earth 31 fire for decent dmg with baseline fire dd)+ 2 fire wizzards
(also the AOE dmg potential isnt bad) i rembered on live there was a firewizzard that did deal AOE damage as much as a bomb, shure he was high RR. (with debuff my char received criticals of 800dmg+on cap resistance)

i mean dont complain you have 2 classes which can nearsight, cabalist and earth wizzard!

just my thoughts about the issue

A 3 Wizard train means you sacrifice utility and a 2 Wizard train is just a low utility version of any Hib/Mid caster group. It depends on how strong bolts are with Phoenix ruleset I suppose.

As for NS Matter is not the optimal group spec unless you're going for a very specific niche strat.


I read the post to which you're replying and thought about responding to it. But then I realized it is 2019 now, and this same argument has been going on since 2002, and yet the guy thinks it's still a matter of being utilized properly while simultaneously ignoring every argument upon which this entire discussion is predicated. It's a waste of time to talk to someone who has comprehended not an ounce of reason in 2 decades and 10 pages of a thread.

Move on. I'm not sure there's a word in the English language for such people. I know a few words but none are adequate.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:01 PM by teiloh
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:26 PM
What kind of more utiliy do hib caster have compared to wizzards ?

Eld + Ench - Blue DZ, Red NS, Pet, Melee DPS Debuff/Interrupt on 5s CD, PBAE, Backup Speed, Str/Con and Dex/Qui Debuffs, Str Debuffs, Dex Debuffs, Slow, AOE Slow

Wiz + Wiz - Red NS, AOE Root, Bolts, 219 DD on-train
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:25 PM by Milchschnidde
you are allways argueing from the optimal constelation, you dont have allways the combination available unless you play organized on a core grp and btw to many utillity on one char is bad, i guess just casting every debuff once and he is half mana without dealing any dmg, the equalation on the paper may look good, but in reality you cant use every ability at the same time.
From a D & D perspective you have the spellbook to do so, but you can only cast 6-8Spells.
So its near worthless(the only great thing is you can cast them situational). But the same issue works for example on mid healers, theire main purpose should be healing but they also have to CC.But you cant do all the things simultainously, the same counts for bard on paper the utility looks great you can heal, buff and cc but cant do all the things together, so you specialize on one thing (usually CC and occational demezz). The strenght of Albion comes from diversity, every char in albion has some kind of debuff/buff or CC and DMG its splitted which might seem to be annoying, but like i said if you kill the "all in one" char the enemys loose everything, kill a Bard an they loose base buffs, cc, speed and endurance etc.

First mezz does not allways mean first mezz wins, there are often situations where the second one did win. You have to take into decision, the albion realm has the strongest stealther setup in daoc, with 3 stealthing classes, they should be able to dominated the assassination world. You have allways to take boons and banes into decision until you are able to judge.

I Have rarely seen alb groups doing a ministral mezz bait, they could be waiting with a stealthed ministrel to aoe mezz from stealth.... but only just half of them are intelligent enough to use such tactics.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:47 PM by Seige
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:25 PM
you are allways argueing from the optimal constelation, you dont have allways the combination available unless you play organized on a core grp and btw to many utillity on one char is bad, i guess just casting every debuff once and he is half mana without dealing any dmg, the equalation on the paper may look good, but in reality you cant use every ability at the same time.
From a D & D perspective you have the spellbook to do so, but you can only cast 6-8Spells.
So its near worthless(the only great thing is you can cast them situational). But the same issue works for example on mid healers, theire main purpose should be healing but they also have to CC.But you cant do all the things simultainously, the same counts for bard on paper the utility looks great you can heal, buff and cc but cant do all the things together, so you specialize on one thing (usually CC and occational demezz). The strenght of Albion comes from diversity, every char in albion has some kind of debuff/buff or CC and DMG its splitted which might seem to be annoying, but like i said if you kill the "all in one" char the enemys loose everything, kill a Bard an they loose base buffs, cc, speed and endurance etc.

First mezz does not allways mean first mezz wins, there are often situations where the second one did win. You have to take into decision, the albion realm has the strongest stealther setup in daoc, with 3 stealthing classes, they should be able to dominated the assassination world. You have allways to take boons and banes into decision until you are able to judge.

I Have rarely seen alb groups doing a ministral mezz bait, they could be waiting with a stealthed ministrel to aoe mezz from stealth.... but only just half of them are intelligent enough to use such tactics.

I play with an organized core group.. I refuse to pug most of the times.. The whole topic of this thread is discussing core components needed in an..........Wait for it........
OPTIMAL group comp. Now I am going to touch on one point you made.. You gave an example that as a MID Healer your main purpose it to heal (ok). Then you said its also to CC (they also have cc). But you can't do all things simultaneously... Your right you can't do all things at once on any character.. But you know what you can do as a Healer concentrating on healing the group? AoE Insta MEZ. AOE INSTA STUN. Same thing with a Bards AOE Insta MEZ and Druids AOE Insta Root.. Thank you for inadvertently proving the entire reason that I posted this thread.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:24 PM by cuuchulain79
Seige wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:47 PM
what you can do as a Healer concentrating on healing the group? AoE Insta MEZ. AOE INSTA STUN. Same thing with a Bards AOE Insta MEZ and Druids AOE Insta Root.. Thank you for inadvertently proving the entire reason that I posted this thread.

I think when it's boiled down...a lot of the unbalance falls on the blessed shoulders of clerics. Smite is really weak compared to a level 30 wizard....it's like nothing at all compared to access to nature or pacifism...there's really not much a cleric can do until it's time to heal. I mean, when you pair up the two classes in each realm with resi buffs...cleric/friar is pretty lacking...not one AoE utility effect between them...

As much as I agree the game is all about RvR...the max group size is 8 for all realms....not 10 or 12 for albion Plus...realms made up of stronger groups means a stronger realm...doesn't it?

Honestly though, I don't think there are subtle changes that wouldn't break the balance between classes apart, that would make casual alb 8 mans easy to set up and effective.

Maybe the original game balance did indeed rely on the minstrel charming the enemy groups healer or druid?
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:31 PM by teiloh
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:25 PM
you are allways argueing from the optimal constelation, you dont have allways the combination available unless you play organized on a core grp and btw to many utillity on one char is bad, i guess just casting every debuff once and he is half mana without dealing any dmg, the equalation on the paper may look good, but in reality you cant use every ability at the same time.
From a D & D perspective you have the spellbook to do so, but you can only cast 6-8Spells.
So its near worthless(the only great thing is you can cast them situational). But the same issue works for example on mid healers, theire main purpose should be healing but they also have to CC.But you cant do all the things simultainously, the same counts for bard on paper the utility looks great you can heal, buff and cc but cant do all the things together, so you specialize on one thing (usually CC and occational demezz). The strenght of Albion comes from diversity, every char in albion has some kind of debuff/buff or CC and DMG its splitted which might seem to be annoying, but like i said if you kill the "all in one" char the enemys loose everything, kill a Bard an they loose base buffs, cc, speed and endurance etc.

First mezz does not allways mean first mezz wins, there are often situations where the second one did win. You have to take into decision, the albion realm has the strongest stealther setup in daoc, with 3 stealthing classes, they should be able to dominated the assassination world. You have allways to take boons and banes into decision until you are able to judge.

First you say versatility is a weakness because of power and resource consumption, then you say it's strength. Sorcs go 00p even faster than any Chanter, Bard or Healer. The thing is they deal maybe 280-350 damage, undebuffed, per cast whereas a healer for the same power can heal for 300-500. Moreover you list only power as an impediment, all Alb classes need to completely reposition, change equipment, or stop using their support functions to switch. Friars need to break melee to heal, Minstrels need to swap off instruments to melee. It's a FAR higher cost than anything Hibs have to pay.

I Have rarely seen alb groups doing a ministral mezz bait, they could be waiting with a stealthed ministrel to aoe mezz from stealth.... but only just half of them are intelligent enough to use such tactics.

I think this shows how little you understand Alb. Do you really think an Alb group is going to sit around on caster speed, and hope and pray that a 250 radius, 5 second cast mez will land on a group? One that lasts all of 16 seconds on non-Det classes? This isn't an "intelligent tactic", it's almost guaranteed to fail and get you killed 9 times for every 1 time it works.

And yes, I've done it before.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:43 PM by jhaerik
cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:24 PM
Seige wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:47 PM
what you can do as a Healer concentrating on healing the group? AoE Insta MEZ. AOE INSTA STUN. Same thing with a Bards AOE Insta MEZ and Druids AOE Insta Root.. Thank you for inadvertently proving the entire reason that I posted this thread.

I think when it's boiled down...a lot of the unbalance falls on the blessed shoulders of clerics. Smite is really weak compared to a level 30 wizard....it's like nothing at all compared to access to nature or pacifism...there's really not much a cleric can do until it's time to heal. I mean, when you pair up the two classes in each realm with resi buffs...cleric/friar is pretty lacking...not one AoE utility effect between them...

As much as I agree the game is all about RvR...the max group size is 8 for all realms....not 10 or 12 for albion Plus...realms made up of stronger groups means a stronger realm...doesn't it?

Honestly though, I don't think there are subtle changes that wouldn't break the balance between classes apart, that would make casual alb 8 mans easy to set up and effective.

Maybe the original game balance did indeed rely on the minstrel charming the enemy groups healer or druid?

The max group size is Number of Minstrels x 8. You can mix and match classes as long as each group has heals and speed.

You don't even have to have your cabby in the same group as your sorcs ffs. Assists and voice chat don't magically stop working because people are in seperate groups.

Theurg pets don't magically interupt for one group.. but not the other.

Ect.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:22 AM by cuuchulain79
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:43 PM
cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:24 PM
Seige wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:47 PM
what you can do as a Healer concentrating on healing the group? AoE Insta MEZ. AOE INSTA STUN. Same thing with a Bards AOE Insta MEZ and Druids AOE Insta Root.. Thank you for inadvertently proving the entire reason that I posted this thread.

I think when it's boiled down...a lot of the unbalance falls on the blessed shoulders of clerics. Smite is really weak compared to a level 30 wizard....it's like nothing at all compared to access to nature or pacifism...there's really not much a cleric can do until it's time to heal. I mean, when you pair up the two classes in each realm with resi buffs...cleric/friar is pretty lacking...not one AoE utility effect between them...

As much as I agree the game is all about RvR...the max group size is 8 for all realms....not 10 or 12 for albion Plus...realms made up of stronger groups means a stronger realm...doesn't it?

Honestly though, I don't think there are subtle changes that wouldn't break the balance between classes apart, that would make casual alb 8 mans easy to set up and effective.

Maybe the original game balance did indeed rely on the minstrel charming the enemy groups healer or druid?

The max group size is Number of Minstrels x 8. You can mix and match classes as long as each group has heals and speed.

You don't even have to have your cabby in the same group as your sorcs ffs. Assists and voice chat don't magically stop working because people are in seperate groups.

Theurg pets don't magically interupt for one group.. but not the other.

Ect.

Hmmm...not sure we're on the same page...I was just talking about certain aspects of group utility specifically, not zergs.

This whole thread has spun out of control...

From a RA CC standpoint, pallys should have 1 utility RA and 1 DMG...like thane and champ. Currently they have 2 DMG RA...beyond that I have not much to add that hasn't been said 1000000 times in the last 20 years about Albion & its support classes.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 3:33 PM by Seige
cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:24 PM
Seige wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:47 PM
what you can do as a Healer concentrating on healing the group? AoE Insta MEZ. AOE INSTA STUN. Same thing with a Bards AOE Insta MEZ and Druids AOE Insta Root.. Thank you for inadvertently proving the entire reason that I posted this thread.

I think when it's boiled down...a lot of the unbalance falls on the blessed shoulders of clerics. Smite is really weak compared to a level 30 wizard....it's like nothing at all compared to access to nature or pacifism...there's really not much a cleric can do until it's time to heal. I mean, when you pair up the two classes in each realm with resi buffs...cleric/friar is pretty lacking...not one AoE utility effect between them...

As much as I agree the game is all about RvR...the max group size is 8 for all realms....not 10 or 12 for albion Plus...realms made up of stronger groups means a stronger realm...doesn't it?

Honestly though, I don't think there are subtle changes that wouldn't break the balance between classes apart, that would make casual alb 8 mans easy to set up and effective.

Maybe the original game balance did indeed rely on the minstrel charming the enemy groups healer or druid?

Maybe when the game first released and we were running around big boy rvr at 30. I think looking at the RA CCs would be an easy way to effectively give Albs another tool in our kit. Also like its been said before many times. In OF Alb was the only realm that received SoS. So I know every hib/mid will scream at this idea, but a good balance would be to remove SoS for Hib and Mid. Leave it on Alb like it was originally designed to compensate for the obvious lack of insta CCs or give us more CCs through RAs.. Its that simple. Just my thoughts.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:47 PM by Milchschnidde
The whole game was not intented for 8vs8 match ups, also not all chars are valuable at 1vs1, when do you considere it balanced? When it does fit to your playstyle comfort?
Then i want a moving shroom as ani, because theurghist got moving pets. Every alb group has at least 2-3 Minimum of Pets, Cabalist pet with stun, sorc and or Ministral pets, theurgh pets sometimes. Not counting necros because they are more a PVE class and not common in RvR.
Some Hib chars are not common in "8vs8", so when you compare things dont confuse it with Zerg vs 8 man. In my opinion Ras should be balanced through all realms, all supporting chars should get access to supporting ras, why shouldnt a paladin not getting perfect rezz ? or a friar ? they both got the ability to rezz ppls. (and so forth) so its allways a bit unbalanced why should a menti on mentalism not receiving a party heal ? There are many balance issues in daoc. when you remove SOS form other realms then other realms start to complain, mids want theire perfect rezz back to be unique and hibs want theire grp purge back, why not grp purge for all ? so cc becomes near meaningless ?
Thu 28 Feb 2019 10:19 PM by teiloh
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:47 PM
The whole game was not intented for 8vs8 match ups, also not all chars are valuable at 1vs1, when do you considere it balanced? When it does fit to your playstyle comfort?
Then i want a moving shroom as ani, because theurghist got moving pets. Every alb group has at least 2-3 Minimum of Pets, Cabalist pet with stun, sorc and or Ministral pets, theurgh pets sometimes. Not counting necros because they are more a PVE class and not common in RvR.
Some Hib chars are not common in "8vs8", so when you compare things dont confuse it with Zerg vs 8 man. In my opinion Ras should be balanced through all realms, all supporting chars should get access to supporting ras, why shouldnt a paladin not getting perfect rezz ? or a friar ? they both got the ability to rezz ppls. (and so forth) so its allways a bit unbalanced why should a menti on mentalism not receiving a party heal ? There are many balance issues in daoc. when you remove SOS form other realms then other realms start to complain, mids want theire perfect rezz back to be unique and hibs want theire grp purge back, why not grp purge for all ? so cc becomes near meaningless ?

8v8 isn't the problem. The problems amplify as more numbers are added. Theurg pets die almost instantly when enemy numbers are over 20-30. Once you have 7-8 Bards (and there are at least 1 if not 2 in every single Hib group), Spamnesia has a downtime of 1.25 seconds, making it literally impossible to cast in theory. In RvR scale Alb also has the weakest and least prevalent AOE, their groups have the least healing, hybrids are usually all melee (so they can't hang back and cast like Thanes/VW), and they are the least likely to have resists. Especially Heat/Cold/Matter, which are the most commonly faced magic damage types in Alb.

Alb has lots of hybrids and hybrids outside of Thanes generally aren't strong in RvR. Almost all Sorc and Minstrel pets have been nerfed on this server (getting mixed messages from Devs). Friars are a weak link that leave Alb taking 30-40% more magic damage in RvR. Alb has the weakest healing and AOE and the worst supported groups.
Fri 1 Mar 2019 3:34 AM by jhaerik
teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 10:19 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:47 PM
The whole game was not intented for 8vs8 match ups, also not all chars are valuable at 1vs1, when do you considere it balanced? When it does fit to your playstyle comfort?
Then i want a moving shroom as ani, because theurghist got moving pets. Every alb group has at least 2-3 Minimum of Pets, Cabalist pet with stun, sorc and or Ministral pets, theurgh pets sometimes. Not counting necros because they are more a PVE class and not common in RvR.
Some Hib chars are not common in "8vs8", so when you compare things dont confuse it with Zerg vs 8 man. In my opinion Ras should be balanced through all realms, all supporting chars should get access to supporting ras, why shouldnt a paladin not getting perfect rezz ? or a friar ? they both got the ability to rezz ppls. (and so forth) so its allways a bit unbalanced why should a menti on mentalism not receiving a party heal ? There are many balance issues in daoc. when you remove SOS form other realms then other realms start to complain, mids want theire perfect rezz back to be unique and hibs want theire grp purge back, why not grp purge for all ? so cc becomes near meaningless ?

8v8 isn't the problem. The problems amplify as more numbers are added. Theurg pets die almost instantly when enemy numbers are over 20-30. Once you have 7-8 Bards (and there are at least 1 if not 2 in every single Hib group), Spamnesia has a downtime of 1.25 seconds, making it literally impossible to cast in theory. In RvR scale Alb also has the weakest and least prevalent AOE, their groups have the least healing, hybrids are usually all melee (so they can't hang back and cast like Thanes/VW), and they are the least likely to have resists. Especially Heat/Cold/Matter, which are the most commonly faced magic damage types in Alb.

Alb has lots of hybrids and hybrids outside of Thanes generally aren't strong in RvR. Almost all Sorc and Minstrel pets have been nerfed on this server (getting mixed messages from Devs). Friars are a weak link that leave Alb taking 30-40% more magic damage in RvR. Alb has the weakest healing and AOE and the worst supported groups.

You know what class has a lot of AoE? Wizards.

You know what one of the classes albs won't group is? Wizard.
Fri 1 Mar 2019 4:38 AM by MadsHoha
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 3:34 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 10:19 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:47 PM
The whole game was not intented for 8vs8 match ups, also not all chars are valuable at 1vs1, when do you considere it balanced? When it does fit to your playstyle comfort?
Then i want a moving shroom as ani, because theurghist got moving pets. Every alb group has at least 2-3 Minimum of Pets, Cabalist pet with stun, sorc and or Ministral pets, theurgh pets sometimes. Not counting necros because they are more a PVE class and not common in RvR.
Some Hib chars are not common in "8vs8", so when you compare things dont confuse it with Zerg vs 8 man. In my opinion Ras should be balanced through all realms, all supporting chars should get access to supporting ras, why shouldnt a paladin not getting perfect rezz ? or a friar ? they both got the ability to rezz ppls. (and so forth) so its allways a bit unbalanced why should a menti on mentalism not receiving a party heal ? There are many balance issues in daoc. when you remove SOS form other realms then other realms start to complain, mids want theire perfect rezz back to be unique and hibs want theire grp purge back, why not grp purge for all ? so cc becomes near meaningless ?

8v8 isn't the problem. The problems amplify as more numbers are added. Theurg pets die almost instantly when enemy numbers are over 20-30. Once you have 7-8 Bards (and there are at least 1 if not 2 in every single Hib group), Spamnesia has a downtime of 1.25 seconds, making it literally impossible to cast in theory. In RvR scale Alb also has the weakest and least prevalent AOE, their groups have the least healing, hybrids are usually all melee (so they can't hang back and cast like Thanes/VW), and they are the least likely to have resists. Especially Heat/Cold/Matter, which are the most commonly faced magic damage types in Alb.

Alb has lots of hybrids and hybrids outside of Thanes generally aren't strong in RvR. Almost all Sorc and Minstrel pets have been nerfed on this server (getting mixed messages from Devs). Friars are a weak link that leave Alb taking 30-40% more magic damage in RvR. Alb has the weakest healing and AOE and the worst supported groups.

You know what class has a lot of AoE? Wizards.

You know what one of the classes albs won't group is? Wizard.

It's pointless to argue with someone so lost in their own[lovely] fantasy rant. He'll get bored soon and albs will keep playing, they've been doing fine last couple days now they actually fielding good numbers.
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:20 AM by teiloh
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 3:34 AM
You know what class has a lot of AoE? Wizards.

You know what one of the classes albs won't group is? Wizard.

No, Wizards don't have a lot of AoE. They have one ranged AOE spell in each line, and PBAE in Ice. And Ice is the worst PBAE line, bar none. That's why Mythic/BS buffed them on live. So that leaves Alb with all of - one - AOE class. Smite Clerics don't count as their damage is garbage, and Necros don't count either.

Literally every single caster in Hib (Animist, Eldritch, Enchanter, Mentalist) has an AOE DD. Hib has two PBAE classes and one niche PBAE (Verdant; its strong but few appreciate how good the line is in keep fights)

SMs, RMs and Thanes have viable AOE/PBAOE in Mid. Not to mention even a level 1 healers have 6s AOE stun. Alb has no AoE synergy - zero.

Like I said, you're not getting the point. No matter what you group in Alb, you make huge sacrifices in healing, AOE, utility, resists, defenses, CC, you name it.

Since you seem to think having abilities on more classes is trivial, lets give Necromancers spread heal, Theurgists PBAE, Cabalists ranged AOE, Paladins nearsight, Reavers PBT, and make Cleric Smite AOE for 160 delve. They'd still be less stacked than Mid or Hib in RvR.
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:23 AM by teiloh
MadsHoha wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 4:38 AM
It's pointless to argue with someone so lost in their own[lovely] fantasy rant. He'll get bored soon and albs will keep playing, they've been doing fine last couple days now they actually fielding good numbers.

[...]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/534061631190204417/550028773094064177/unknown.png
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:34 AM by MadsHoha
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:23 AM
MadsHoha wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 4:38 AM
It's pointless to argue with someone so lost in their own [lovely] fantasy rant. He'll get bored soon and albs will keep playing, they've been doing fine last couple days now they actually fielding good numbers.

Another clueless easymoder chiming in.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/534061631190204417/550028773094064177/unknown.png

Not sure if you're intentionally being [lovely] for arguments sake or you really are just that deluded and full of that whine. You spend more time bitching about the game than actually playing it. Either way, I eagerly await the next [lovely] response you post, let's have it don't disappoint us now.
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:44 AM by teiloh
MadsHoha wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:34 AM
Not sure if you're intentionally being [lovely] for arguments sake or you really are just that deluded and full of that whine. You spend more time bitching about the game than actually playing it. Either way, I eagerly await the next[lovely] response you post, let's have it don't disappoint us now.

Some of us grew up over the 18 year run of this game.

Too bad, if you had a point anywhere to be found, it could justify your whine posts - but they're just wasting space. Why are you so triggered at a pure statement of fact? If you didn't get the gist of my message, I do know much more about the game than you. Not an accomplishment on my part, it happens naturally when you just happen to not pick up on the obvious.

I'm most interested in making the game as fun as possible for the general playerbase, and not just catering to people who can only press 1 or 2 buttons every 10 seconds. Why don't you go press your 1 button, enjoy yourself, and leave game balance to people who bother to learn the game mechanics? No need for you to get so mad over things you don't really get, anyway.
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:50 AM by MadsHoha
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:44 AM
MadsHoha wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:34 AM
Not sure if you're intentionally being a dumbass for arguments sake or you really are just that deluded and full of that whine. You spend more time bitching about the game than actually playing it. Either way, I eagerly await the next dumbass response you post, let's have it don't disappoint us now.

Some of us grew up over the 18 year run of this game, but it seems like you're still maladjusted.

Too bad, if you were smart, it could justify your whine posts - but you have nothing to offer here either. I can't really imagine what it's like to get so triggered at a pure statement of fact (that Mid is easymode on this ruleset).

I'm most interested in making the game as fun as possible for the general playerbase, and not just catering to people who can only press 1 or 2 buttons every 10 seconds.

Mmm yes, interesting thing is I haven't once whined nor became triggered by any of the meaningless and quite honestly half wrong *facts* you seem to enjoy [...]

Every post you make is whining and complaining about mid this, hib that, poor alb, nerf this. You do not speak for the general playerbase, you speak for your own misguided, selfish and quite ignorant delusions so get off your high horse little man and go play some Daoc. Or don't, either way the game goes on with or without you.
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:53 AM by teiloh
MadsHoha wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:50 AM
Mmm yes, interesting thing is I haven't once whined nor became triggered by any of the meaningless and quite honestly half wrong *facts* you seem to enjoy pulling out of your ass.

Every post you make is whining and complaining about mid this, hib that, poor alb, nerf this. You do not speak for the general playerbase, you speak for your own misguided, selfish and quite ignorant delusions so get off your high horse little man and go play some Daoc. Or don't, either way the game goes on with or without you.

Literally every post of yours is some kind of whining. I'm just explaining game balance to people who don't seem to understand very simple concepts, because you just enjoy pressing your button so much. Don't worry I've played BD/Healer to high rank on live so I know how Mid is as well. It's sad that some people hate an even playing field so much that they want to drag the whole game down.

I've always stated the fact that Alb's group utility is messed up, even as I've (probably) repeatedly killed you in game. It's not either or, Albs can excel, but they still need work done on classes. Phoenix Wizard, Friar and Paladin changes are a great start.
Fri 1 Mar 2019 6:03 AM by MadsHoha
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:53 AM
MadsHoha wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:50 AM
Mmm yes, interesting thing is I haven't once whined nor became triggered by any of the meaningless and quite honestly half wrong *facts* you seem to enjoy [...]

Every post you make is whining and complaining about mid this, hib that, poor alb, nerf this. You do not speak for the general playerbase, you speak for your own misguided, selfish and quite ignorant delusions so get off your high horse little man and go play some Daoc. Or don't, either way the game goes on with or without you.

Literally every post of yours is whining. I'm just explaining game balance to people like you who don't seem to understand very simple concepts, because you just enjoy pressing your 1 widdle button and facerolling so much, lmao. Don't worry I've played BD/Healer to high rank on live so I know how Mid is as well.

I've always stated the fact that Alb's group utility is messed up, even as I've (probably) repeatedly steamrolled you in game. Sucks for those who are too dumb to get it.

Once again [...], you do not speak for the general playerbase nor does your childish assumptions about every person who disagrees with your posts give any credibility to anything you say.

Quite frankly it's good you don't speak for everybody [...]. In short, you are a complete and utter waste of time and your next pointless assumption post of "well durr hurr push 1 2 button guy yay" or "albs weak nerf everybody give us aoe all the stuff" just reinforces it.

Hope your life gets a bit brighter.

Peace
Fri 1 Mar 2019 6:06 AM by teiloh
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2Cy8c9HUXho/maxresdefault.jpg

IMO most players would agree with my proposals, if they were forced to think about it and choose.
Fri 1 Mar 2019 6:16 AM by Seige
Not quite sure where all the hate came from.. Did it boil over from another thread? Lol... Lets get back on point and try to not get this thread locked please.
Fri 1 Mar 2019 6:19 AM by teiloh
Seige wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 6:16 AM
Not quite sure where all the hate came from.. Did it boil over from another thread? Lol... Lets get back on point and try to not get this thread locked please.

He's just perpetually angry.
Fri 1 Mar 2019 4:49 PM by Milchschnidde
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 3:34 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 10:19 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:47 PM
The whole game was not intented for 8vs8 match ups, also not all chars are valuable at 1vs1, when do you considere it balanced? When it does fit to your playstyle comfort?
Then i want a moving shroom as ani, because theurghist got moving pets. Every alb group has at least 2-3 Minimum of Pets, Cabalist pet with stun, sorc and or Ministral pets, theurgh pets sometimes. Not counting necros because they are more a PVE class and not common in RvR.
Some Hib chars are not common in "8vs8", so when you compare things dont confuse it with Zerg vs 8 man. In my opinion Ras should be balanced through all realms, all supporting chars should get access to supporting ras, why shouldnt a paladin not getting perfect rezz ? or a friar ? they both got the ability to rezz ppls. (and so forth) so its allways a bit unbalanced why should a menti on mentalism not receiving a party heal ? There are many balance issues in daoc. when you remove SOS form other realms then other realms start to complain, mids want theire perfect rezz back to be unique and hibs want theire grp purge back, why not grp purge for all ? so cc becomes near meaningless ?

8v8 isn't the problem. The problems amplify as more numbers are added. Theurg pets die almost instantly when enemy numbers are over 20-30. Once you have 7-8 Bards (and there are at least 1 if not 2 in every single Hib group), Spamnesia has a downtime of 1.25 seconds, making it literally impossible to cast in theory. In RvR scale Alb also has the weakest and least prevalent AOE, their groups have the least healing, hybrids are usually all melee (so they can't hang back and cast like Thanes/VW), and they are the least likely to have resists. Especially Heat/Cold/Matter, which are the most commonly faced magic damage types in Alb.

Alb has lots of hybrids and hybrids outside of Thanes generally aren't strong in RvR. Almost all Sorc and Minstrel pets have been nerfed on this server (getting mixed messages from Devs). Friars are a weak link that leave Alb taking 30-40% more magic damage in RvR. Alb has the weakest healing and AOE and the worst supported groups.

You know what class has a lot of AoE? Wizards.

You know what one of the classes albs won't group is? Wizard.

Indeed they got the decimation trap (5minutes cooldown)to break speeds and volcanic pillar on top of theire ranged AOE DMG, i know the sorc+caba combination is quite effective and maybe some sort of meta, but take into consideration that in my opinion, albs miss theire possibilies to change and try something new. In Hibernia you could also do Voideldritch with body debuff and 2-3 Arbo animist to do the same combination, but you rare would go for that because therefor you need a rarely specced void eldritch and you miss Nearsight, which in albion you wont miss nearsight ....
Sat 2 Mar 2019 4:28 AM by teiloh
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 4:49 PM
Indeed they got the decimation trap (5minutes cooldown)to break speeds and volcanic pillar on top of theire ranged AOE DMG, i know the sorc+caba combination is quite effective and maybe some sort of meta, but take into consideration that in my opinion, albs miss theire possibilies to change and try something new. In Hibernia you could also do Voideldritch with body debuff and 2-3 Arbo animist to do the same combination, but you rare would go for that because therefor you need a rarely specced void eldritch and you miss Nearsight, which in albion you wont miss nearsight ....

Alb has one AOE DD class. Out of 14 classes.

Hib has 4, of 13 classes.

Mid has 3 / 12 classes

If you don't think that's a problem, fix Smite and give Theurgists viable AOE.
Sat 2 Mar 2019 7:28 AM by jhaerik
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 6:19 AM
Seige wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 6:16 AM
Not quite sure where all the hate came from.. Did it boil over from another thread? Lol... Lets get back on point and try to not get this thread locked please.

He's just perpetually angry.

One needs a point to get back to get.

Albs don't need more RR CC because they have absurd amounts of non RR CC.

It's also never going to happen... so there is that.

Frankly teiloh is either the most [lovely] DAoC player I've ever met, or a damn good troll.
Sat 2 Mar 2019 7:31 AM by jhaerik
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:20 AM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 3:34 AM
You know what class has a lot of AoE? Wizards.

You know what one of the classes albs won't group is? Wizard.

No, Wizards don't have a lot of AoE. They have one ranged AOE spell in each line, and PBAE in Ice. And Ice is the worst PBAE line, bar none. That's why Mythic/BS buffed them on live. So that leaves Alb with all of - one - AOE class. Smite Clerics don't count as their damage is garbage, and Necros don't count either.

Literally every single caster in Hib (Animist, Eldritch, Enchanter, Mentalist) has an AOE DD. Hib has two PBAE classes and one niche PBAE (Verdant; its strong but few appreciate how good the line is in keep fights)

SMs, RMs and Thanes have viable AOE/PBAOE in Mid. Not to mention even a level 1 healers have 6s AOE stun. Alb has no AoE synergy - zero.

Like I said, you're not getting the point. No matter what you group in Alb, you make huge sacrifices in healing, AOE, utility, resists, defenses, CC, you name it.

Since you seem to think having abilities on more classes is trivial, lets give Necromancers spread heal, Theurgists PBAE, Cabalists ranged AOE, Paladins nearsight, Reavers PBT, and make Cleric Smite AOE for 160 delve. They'd still be less stacked than Mid or Hib in RvR.

[deleted] Disregard their best class at something to claim they don't have something.

Wizzy has more sources of AoE damage than any other class in the game. Maybe the reason you are complaining so much is you don't know what your own classes do.
Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:02 AM by teiloh
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 7:31 AM
Typical Alb logic. Disregard their best class at something to claim they don't have something.

Wizzy has more sources of AoE damage than any other class in the game. Maybe the reason you are complaining so much is you don't know what your own classes do.

Let me know when Wizards have 2.5x spec points. Maybe you're too [lovely] to realize that they can only spec one line.
Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:08 AM by teiloh
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 7:28 AM
Albs don't need more RR CC because they have absurd amounts of non RR CC.

lol no. Alb has lots of AOE roots, but you're going to have 1 or 2 of them in a group at most.

Meanwhile Mid has:

11 second casted stun
AOE stun
Instant Stun
AOE Instant Stun
PBAE Spam Disease
Baseline 400 Radius Disease
Instant Mez
Instant AOE Mez
Instant Snare
AOE Focus Snare

[deleted]
Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:16 AM by Chimaera
Please deliver your points without insults. You'll realize it's not only possible, but will allow the thread to stay on topic. Please take a breather if you find yourself getting worked up.
Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:24 AM by teiloh
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 7:31 AM
[deleted]00080][deleted] [/color]Disregard their best class at something to claim they don't have something.

Wizzy has more sources of AoE damage than any other class in the game. Maybe the reason you are complaining so much is you don't know what your own classes do.

[deleted]

Wizard:

Ice - PBAE and AE DD/Debuff ... not that anyone specs it, as PBAE can't go through walls here and it's the worst PBAE line regardless
Earth - AE DD/Snare, GTAE
Fire - AOE

Mid:

Healers - AOE Stun
Runie RC - AOE, GTAE
Runie Supp - AOE DD/Snare
Runie Dark - AOE DD/Debuff
Thane - 164 AOE
SM - PBAE, superior thanks to SM intercept

Hib:

Verd Ani: PBAE
Abor Ani: AOE Bomber
Light Ment: AOE
Mana Chanter: PBAE
Mana Eld: PBAE, AOE DD/Snare
Void Eld; AOE, GTAE

Too bad WIzards don't have 2.5x spec points [deleted]

Next we'll be informed that Alb has more healing than Hib as well.
Sat 2 Mar 2019 12:13 PM by jg777
Albion’s lack group synergy more than Hibernians and Midgards. That doesn’t mean they can’t compete well but they have to be very careful how the group class make up and specializations of the classes in the group are. It’s difficult to create a well rounded group, usually you have to sacrifice something as more Albion classes suffer from singular abilities than the other realms. It’d be a bit different if groups were expanded to 10-12 players instead of 8, as Albion’s could then add enough of the classes and specializations of those classes to round out group needs better.
Sat 2 Mar 2019 5:55 PM by Milchschnidde
Well they allready did boost friars for example.
Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:57 PM by teiloh
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 5:55 PM
Well they allready did boost friars for example.

Exactly, and they're hinting at more to come.

So the Devs are on the same page as us and others patiently trying to explain what Alb needs to make grouping more natural and easy, rather than those sticking their heads in the sand and claiming Alb's underpop is due to a lack of teamwork and that Mids overpop has anything do to with anything other than the fact that Mid is Easymode atm.
Thu 14 Mar 2019 6:27 PM by Seige
teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:57 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 5:55 PM
Well they allready did boost friars for example.

Exactly, and they're hinting at more to come.

So the Devs are on the same page as us and others patiently trying to explain what Alb needs to make grouping more natural and easy, rather than those sticking their heads in the sand and claiming Alb's underpop is due to a lack of teamwork and that Mids overpop has anything do to with anything other than the fact that Mid is Easymode atm.

Sadly I don't see the devs making any meaningful changes to Alb. They have stated their opinion is the realms are balanced in another post.
Thu 14 Mar 2019 7:41 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Seige wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Mar 2019 6:27 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:57 PM
Milchschnidde wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 5:55 PM
Well they allready did boost friars for example.

Exactly, and they're hinting at more to come.

So the Devs are on the same page as us and others patiently trying to explain what Alb needs to make grouping more natural and easy, rather than those sticking their heads in the sand and claiming Alb's underpop is due to a lack of teamwork and that Mids overpop has anything do to with anything other than the fact that Mid is Easymode atm.

Sadly I don't see the devs making any meaningful changes to Alb. They have stated their opinion is the realms are balanced in another post.

I'd be interested to know if there has been a re-consideration to giving Paladin's celerity in their chant line and/or making the Friars chants group based?
Fri 15 Mar 2019 10:37 AM by jg777
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Mar 2019 7:41 PM
Seige wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Mar 2019 6:27 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:57 PM
Exactly, and they're hinting at more to come.

So the Devs are on the same page as us and others patiently trying to explain what Alb needs to make grouping more natural and easy, rather than those sticking their heads in the sand and claiming Alb's underpop is due to a lack of teamwork and that Mids overpop has anything do to with anything other than the fact that Mid is Easymode atm.

Sadly I don't see the devs making any meaningful changes to Alb. They have stated their opinion is the realms are balanced in another post.

I'd be interested to know if there has been a re-consideration to giving Paladin's celerity in their chant line and/or making the Friars chants group based?

That’s what I’d suggest, in some way classes like the Paladin and Friar could use more group buffs, while not affecting themselves (making them stronger in solo). An example would be increasing the Friar HoT or giving Paladin a Celerity chant and having it only affect others in its group.
This topic is locked and you can't reply.

Return to Suggestions or the latest topics