NPC Buffs for Players - Phoenix Freeshard

I know I'll probably get lambasted for this, but please add NPC yellow buffs for players at Border Keeps, PVE Zones, SI Dungeons, and Darkness Falls. This will not prevent players from grouping up, and will not compromise use of the alchemy system as players will still need to carry pots for rebuff, endurance pots, and haste pots.

Thu 31 Jan 2019 8:46 PM by chryso

No.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:27 AM by Andrien

That is not for you to decide.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:28 AM by inoeth

as stated many times before from the devs, this is not going to be implemented

Fri 1 Feb 2019 1:59 PM by Andrien

They could at least implement the /bank command so we didn't have to carry around as many pots.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 6:39 PM by Quik

Andrien wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Feb 2019 1:59 PM
They could at least implement the /bank command so we didn't have to carry around as many pots.

They have it...its called vault merchant.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 6:47 PM by chryso

Andrien wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:27 AM
That is not for you to decide.

I didn't decide. I am telling you the answer. This has literally been asked 46829527413 times.
The answer is no.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 9:26 PM by Ramppage

Yeah this shouldn’t even be an issue still. Just the simple fact of getting destroyed with a blue buff pot by a fully buffer player is great fun..... If your solo can’t dare try and pick that healer off in the back.... he’s full buffed red, no chance. Yellow is basically junk buffs and you still give us blue, makes game suck and you better implement a change cause I already see the population falling daily.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 9:34 PM by defiasbandit

We need more QoL from buff potions.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 9:51 PM by Wool

I would agree that we need more QoL with buff pots.

This is somewhat related, so maybe someone can answer this for me here: what is the intent behind banning buff bots? Is it to reduce server load? It’s a free server and resources are limited, so essentially doubling the population with bots is not a great use of resources.

Or is the intent to create an even playing field? If that’s the case, I think buff pots should be equal or close to purple buffs and should be readily available.

One caveat: I’m no where near 50 RvR so take my input with a grain of salt

Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:50 PM by Andrien

I didn't decide. I am telling you the answer. This has literally been asked 46829527413 times.
The answer is no.

And is that for buff bots, or NPC buffs? I have searched through about 10 pages on this forum and there's little relevant information that the devs explicitly said they weren't going to include buff bots. However, there are similar posts of players asking for npc buffs or low level npc buffs. Not saying I don't believe you. Just pointing out that there are more posts on players asking for NPC buffs and none with word directly from the horse's mouth.

I also agree with Wool about QOL for buff pots. The pots could at least be made as strong as base buffs.

Players are already complaining about not being able to solo. This isn't live where we are forced to group up, and players will always want to solo at this game to test their skills. If people enjoy zerg warfare they should go play WoW.

And another thing, they could increase the duration of pots to 1 hour. While the idea of classic is nostalgic, many solo players and small man oriented players don't want to go back 20 years with no QOL. Uthgard died because there were no NPC buffs or QOL for buff pots and that'll quickly happen to Phoenix if not addressed. That would be a shame.

Sat 2 Feb 2019 5:31 PM by Madfrog

No!

Sat 2 Feb 2019 5:45 PM by Andrien

LOL@ Madfrog

That's a joke since you yourself suggested that QOL for buffs be incorporated into buff pots.

Imo, add bonus to potion time for creating better quality pots like: 97% 14min, 98% 16min, 99% 18min, 100% 20min/30min for great luck. This....is actually a pretty good idea. Awesome! I also like the stacking of potions, but make 2x10 min potions into 15m not 20m. Stacking with diminishing returns,...

Sat 2 Feb 2019 6:08 PM by Quik

No to buff merchants or better buff pots.

No matter what they add the soloers/smallmans will want more added on top of it until they are equal to a group with a buffing class...

I still say the only way to fix this is to take out buffing classes/pots/hasteners/speed classes and just give everyone +80 to every stat as well as max speed...the problem is that if they do people will want buff pots and buff merchants on top of the other bonuses again...

There is no end to this as people will continue to ask for more and more not caring they are dumbing the game down with every request...

Dev's I hope you are paying attention because every time you give an inch another group wants a foot more to make them happy!

And before people scream 8man fan here...I don't care what size group I play. I join whatever guild/alliance group asks me to play. Sometimes 8v8 and sometimes its just 2-3 people. I play my Bard and will be leveling a Champ to play him in RvR also.

Sat 2 Feb 2019 6:09 PM by Topas

NPC Buffs with 5000 range .....lol

for what?

Sat 2 Feb 2019 6:54 PM by Andrien

Well, if they implemented NPC buffs it wouldn't be limited to 5000 units, duh.

Sat 2 Feb 2019 6:56 PM by Andrien

I still say the only way to fix this is to take out buffing classes/pots/hasteners/speed classes and just give everyone +80 to every stat as well as max speed...the problem is that if they do people will want buff pots and buff merchants on top of the other bonuses again...

That wouldn't be a fix. That would just be giving innate buffs and turn everyone's class into a Vampiir. On top of that, all the people playing Skalds and Minstrels would quit.

Sat 2 Feb 2019 7:02 PM by Andrien

The devs on Live introduced NPC buffs, longer duration buffs, and longer duration pots because they were losing players. They also made pve a lot easier and many players don't like depending on other people to get things done. Maybe the devs did say they weren't going to have buff bots. Still don't know about npc buffs. In any case, that doesn't mean things won't change in the future. If they don't then Phoenix is bound to suffer the same fate as Uthgard. Sorry if that upsets some players, but that's just the nature of things.

Sat 2 Feb 2019 7:42 PM by Exploder

The duration of buff potions needs to be pushed to 20 minutes or so. Double the cost of the recipe if need be. I feel like I'm constantly being forced to pop my potions and it quickly becomes a chore. The effectiveness, however, is fine as is. You aren't playing a buffing class therefore you should not have access to their buffs. As for fighting enemies with red buffs, what class are you playing, OP? I've had no problem picking off healers on my scout when they are engaged with other groups.

You can't definitively say Uthgard died because of no buff merchants/bots. I would argue it was the staff's vision of 1.65 or nothing that did it in to go along with early server performance woes. You have to remember Uthgard refused to even add the most basic QoL changes that would have helped tremendously.

Sat 2 Feb 2019 7:55 PM by Quik

Andrien wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Feb 2019 6:56 PM
I still say the only way to fix this is to take out buffing classes/pots/hasteners/speed classes and just give everyone +80 to every stat as well as max speed...the problem is that if they do people will want buff pots and buff merchants on top of the other bonuses again...

That wouldn't be a fix. That would just be giving innate buffs and turn everyone's class into a Vampiir. On top of that, all the people playing Skalds and Minstrels would quit.

Isn't that basically what people want with longer pots and buff merchants? They want easy mode buffs without needing a buffing class.

Plus I see people all the time asking for horses or speed for slow classes so basically people want free buffs without needing a buffing class AND they want speed without needing a speed class...

And again, once people get this they will want more, they always do.

Sat 2 Feb 2019 8:44 PM by jg777

I highly disagree with adding NPC buffers in RvR zones. I’d be open to discussing PvE zones possibilities.

Buffing to me is one of those weird things that causes issues for various reasons. Sometimes I think just removing them from the game altogether would be the most complete solution. No buff botting to worry about anymore, no reason for solo/small mans to worry about buff discrepencies or disadvantages. But I digress.

Sun 24 Feb 2019 10:49 PM by krumr

If potions and charges are to stay, then the whole self-buffing system should be improved, even if just for consistency with the many systems that received great QoL improvements on the server:

in terms of gameplay, the current system is cumbersome, unimaginative and plainly boring: having to refresh potions every 10 minutes adds nothing in terms of gameplay, actually it detracts from the whole experience
if, by absurd, the original intent was to discourage self-buffing (hence the 10 min duration?), then the system simply doesn't work: people will go through ANYTHING to get that marginal advantage in PvP, and i said "by absurd" because if that really was the original intent then i don't understand how potions, let alone charge items with spec buffs, made it into the server
in terms of balance nothing would change if the very same buffs currently given by potions/charges would be given by an NPC in the frontier, even with unlimited duration: first of all because people without a group would still get the very same level of power they can get now, nothing more (= buffers would still have the role/importance they have now), second because the duration would be unlimited only on paper given that we're talking about PvP here (= death is inevitable)
economically speaking, and in regards to potions, nothing would change if the tokens needed to get buffed by NPCs would be crafted-only and by alchemists with a cost properly balanced to keep the current cost/time ratio (e.g. cost of potions used in the time frame / average length of a single "life" of a soloer)
as for charge items, to preserve their market (in terms of feathers spent on them or simply exchanged with plats), they could be used to one-time "unlock" (like kill-credits) spec buffs from said NPCs by giving them (thus "destroying" the relative item,with the cost of buff tokens balanced around the current cost to recharge charges too.

For a game balanced around PvP, being competitive, when out of a group, is quite aggravating atm and with no real reason: the system has to change, without altering any kind of balance, but it has to change for the better.

Sun 24 Feb 2019 11:59 PM by Quik

krumr wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 10:49 PM
If potions and charges are to stay, then the whole self-buffing system should be improved, even if just for consistency with the many systems that received great QoL improvements on the server:
in terms of gameplay, the current system is cumbersome, unimaginative and plainly boring: having to refresh potions every 10 minutes adds nothing in terms of gameplay, actually it detracts from the whole experience
if, by absurd, the original intent was to discourage self-buffing (hence the 10 min duration?), then the system simply doesn't work: people will go through ANYTHING to get that marginal advantage in PvP, and i said "by absurd" because if that really was the original intent then i don't understand how potions, let alone charge items with spec buffs, made it into the server
in terms of balance nothing would change if the very same buffs currently given by potions/charges would be given by an NPC in the frontier, even with unlimited duration: first of all because people without a group would still get the very same level of power they can get now, nothing more (= buffers would still have the role/importance they have now), second because the duration would be unlimited only on paper given that we're talking about PvP here (= death is inevitable)
economically speaking, and in regards to potions, nothing would change if the tokens needed to get buffed by NPCs would be crafted-only and by alchemists with a cost properly balanced to keep the current cost/time ratio (e.g. cost of potions used in the time frame / average length of a single "life" of a soloer)
as for charge items, to preserve their market (in terms of feathers spent on them or simply exchanged with plats), they could be used to one-time "unlock" (like kill-credits) spec buffs from said NPCs by giving them (thus "destroying" the relative item,with the cost of buff tokens balanced around the current cost to recharge charges too.

For a game balanced around PvP, being competitive, when out of a group, is quite aggravating atm and with no real reason: the system has to change, without altering any kind of balance, but it has to change for the better.

I agree with this part of your statement 100%

Giving buffs to non sellf buffing soloing classes DOES alter the game balance. Getting buffs of any kind whether from pots or merchants or from ANYTHING other then a class in your group that gives buffs is blatantly hurting those soloing classes that have self buffs by decreasing their value. Giving a soloing class with no speed takes away from those classes with speed.

This is why I am so against buff pots or merchants.

If we have to have buff pots then personally I think they need to cost a stupid amount and last a short time with a longer timer between casts. People that want to be able to drink every buff pot instantly and go RvR just want favoritism for their particular class and it screws classes that depend on self buffs to compete.

I love how a scout has a special ability to use a shield and slam people for 9 sec stun, and THEN whine that they can't compete because they need self buffs. Now take a ranger who's special IS self buffs and it is suppose to be what counteracts the shield slam and is suppose to be their special ability, but since the scout can now self buff to almost the same amount, how is that fair to the ranger? Shouldn't the ranger be able to drink a damn pot giving him the ability to slam someone now to be able to compete? This is what I find unfair about buff pots/merchants.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:06 AM by krumr

Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 11:59 PM
I agree with this part of your statement 100%

Giving buffs to non sellf buffing soloing classes DOES alter the game balance. Getting buffs of any kind whether from pots or merchants or from ANYTHING other then a class in your group that gives buffs is blatantly hurting those soloing classes that have self buffs by decreasing their value. Giving a soloing class with no speed takes away from those classes with speed.

This is why I am so against buff pots or merchants.

If we have to have buff pots then personally I think they need to cost a stupid amount and last a short time with a longer timer between casts. People that want to be able to drink every buff pot instantly and go RvR just want favoritism for their particular class and it screws classes that depend on self buffs to compete.

I love how a scout has a special ability to use a shield and slam people for 9 sec stun, and THEN whine that they can't compete because they need self buffs. Now take a ranger who's special IS self buffs and it is suppose to be what counteracts the shield slam and is suppose to be their special ability, but since the scout can now self buff to almost the same amount, how is that fair to the ranger? Shouldn't the ranger be able to drink a damn pot giving him the ability to slam someone now to be able to compete? This is what I find unfair about buff pots/merchants.

I agree with you, I hope i made it clear that I'm not defending self-buffing.
I could understand, and accept, either choice: keeping potions or removing them altogether. Both paths make sense to me in some way, even if their consequences are largely different.
Also, as you too pointed out, even the current system is far from perfect, with flaws worth being reconsidered: self-buffing classes vs not self-buffing ones is an aspect of the matter, let's add necromancers who benefit the least from potions (due to the whole class-pet mechanic), and what else more knowledgeable players than me may point out.
That devs acknowledged these problems is confirmed by the changes paladins received to improve their utility (end potions basically neuter their end chant).

What doesn't make sense to me is a system which, on one hand, doesn't really discourage, let alone prevent, self-buffing but, on the other, makes it plainly boring (as I said, micromanaging buffs doesn't add anything of value to the game).
Even if self-buffing has to be somehow discouraged then the trade-off has to be found within the game, not outside it in terms of fun: unfun solutions, in games, are simply bad ones, there is no way around it.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 12:58 PM by Cwtch

Andrien wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Jan 2019 5:48 PM
I know I'll probably get lambasted for this, but please add NPC yellow buffs for players at Border Keeps, PVE Zones, SI Dungeons, and Darkness Falls. This will not prevent players from grouping up, and will not compromise use of the alchemy system as players will still need to carry pots for rebuff, endurance pots, and haste pots.

no.. this would be a bad idea.. no buffs = people need to group up

grouping up = more social as a realm

Buff Npc = People solo because they think they are too good to group up = bad social Karma realmwise

Mon 25 Feb 2019 2:53 PM by cuuchulain79

Cwtch wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 12:58 PM
Andrien wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Jan 2019 5:48 PM
I know I'll probably get lambasted for this, but please add NPC yellow buffs for players at Border Keeps, PVE Zones, SI Dungeons, and Darkness Falls. This will not prevent players from grouping up, and will not compromise use of the alchemy system as players will still need to carry pots for rebuff, endurance pots, and haste pots.

no.. this would be a bad idea.. no buffs = people need to group up

grouping up = more social as a realm

Buff Npc = People solo because they think they are too good to group up = bad social Karma realmwise

It's not that simple...I'd say people solo because it sounds fun at that particular moment. You can solo adequately with 10 minute buffs and charges...but it really takes away the immersion in the game...soloing in this game now involves a constant headache of micromanaging...

I'm not saying straight buff NPCs are the answer...but I am saying juggling several 10 minute buffs will slowly eradicate the solo game play.

What a solo has to do here is almost exactly the Uthgard situation...if not slightly worse off for melee classes (impossible to sprint and regain endo)...

I really don't understand why so many seem to think solo is some toxic play style...