Power Level Service!

Started 30 Jan 2019
by Bradekes
in Ask the Team
Hello team, I was just wondering if it was against any of the rules, or shamed, to run a PL service for in game monetary gains? Thanks for your time!
Thu 31 Jan 2019 11:26 AM by Dominus
In game gold, no problem.
Thu 31 Jan 2019 12:18 PM by Mac
But remember, the people getting power leveled must be at their computers. No giving a power leveling service your account info and having them log in you character and PL it.
Thu 31 Jan 2019 1:26 PM by Koljar
Aaand: No AFKing while being leveled...
Thu 31 Jan 2019 3:43 PM by Bradekes
So these things are rules? And I wasn't suggesting anything about account info. I am wanting to start a PL service to level othets to level 30 starting off. I am wanting to save up for a large guild house and I need the rules and guidelines so I can address them to the group I'm PLing. I may start a 30-40 service too but starting off it will be less time consuming just to 30 right now. Thanks for the responses BTW!
Fri 1 Feb 2019 9:03 AM by Mac
Bradekes wrote:
Thu 31 Jan 2019 3:43 PM
So these things are rules? And I wasn't suggesting anything about account info. I am wanting to start a PL service to level othets to level 30 starting off. I am wanting to save up for a large guild house and I need the rules and guidelines so I can address them to the group I'm PLing. I may start a 30-40 service too but starting off it will be less time consuming just to 30 right now. Thanks for the responses BTW!

You can see the complete list of rules here: https://playphoenix.online/rules
Fri 1 Feb 2019 11:41 AM by Bradekes
Well it doesn't say anything about non-dual log being afk.. I've read the rules but I kinda wanted an official statement because i don't wanna get banned or anyone else. Doesn't sound like they give warnings here just short bans that can lead to perma ban. So I'm trying to be careful
Fri 1 Feb 2019 12:04 PM by Koljar
It has been said multiple times (by the staff, not sure if it's in the rules aswell): Please logg off if you go afk for more than ~5 minutes. Getting a coffee, going to the bathroom etc. is ok but going out to dinner while a buddy does the exp part is not.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 1:13 PM by Bradekes
This is why I need an answer from staff. If someone is handing me plat for a service I'm offering I would like them to be able to afk. I don't expect anyone to do any work when they've earned my services. That's kind of unfair to them. I would love to know what I can do to protect their liability in such a case so I can have repeat customers.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 6:22 PM by Quik
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 1:13 PM
This is why I need an answer from staff. If someone is handing me plat for a service I'm offering I would like them to be able to afk. I don't expect anyone to do any work when they've earned my services. That's kind of unfair to them. I would love to know what I can do to protect their liability in such a case so I can have repeat customers.

I'm really confused...

Dev's have answered NUMEROUS times on other posts and people have answered here on THIS post...

You may NOT go afk while powerleveling or being powerleveled or while using your own pet on agro or in numerous other instances. They can't cover every possible situation so they have simply said no afk for more then 5-10 minutes without them checking to see if you are a bot. If you are at your computer when they check to see if you are a bot you are fine, but if you are still AFK when they check then they will probably do a 3 day ban.

Read other posts and figure out for yourself instead of wasting the dev's time making them answer something they have answered dozens of times already.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 7:25 PM by Bradekes
Well instead of berating me the devs should put that in the official rules.. Thats not an unspecific random thing... Why would I comb the forum for rules?? That's not how it should have to be. But thanks for your response. I would of appreciated it being in a less threatening manner however.

This is the Ask Us forum so I have all the rights to ask my question.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 7:31 PM by Quik
Of course you do, but when someone answers and you tell them you don't want their reply and only want a dev's reply when that person told you it has been answered in other posts, that is when people are going to stop being polite.

It was answered and you kept asking.

There is another post right now where a dev answered about players with pets going afk with pet on agro and Uthred said that would be considered wrong also.

Read a few more posts and most likely you will find your answer.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 7:42 PM by Bradekes
This is still different... I understand where you're coming from. I understand most likely my question falls under a similar category but I am not AFK farming, and there is nothing about powerleveling or being AFK in a group on their official rules, unless you have more than one account being played in one household

If the Devs want people to know this they need to add this simple statement to the official rules.

That being said, technically no one can be held responsible for being afk if it is not stated clearly in the rules. It sounds more like those specific Devs are creating their own rules which should be addressed.

Going forward I don't need any more replies from you on this subject. Again, thank you for your opinion. I will tell my group members to set a 10minute timer, then be active then set another 10minute timer rinse repeat.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 7:52 PM by chryso
OHMYGOD can someone explain how this forum enemies thing works?
Fri 1 Feb 2019 9:18 PM by Numatic
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 7:42 PM
This is still different... I understand where you're coming from. I understand most likely my question falls under a similar category but I am not AFK farming, and there is nothing about powerleveling or being AFK in a group on their official rules, unless you have more than one account being played in one household

If the Devs want people to know this they need to add this simple statement to the official rules.

That being said, technically no one can be held responsible for being afk if it is not stated clearly in the rules. It sounds more like those specific Devs are creating their own rules which should be addressed.

Going forward I don't need any more replies from you on this subject. Again, thank you for your opinion. I will tell my group members to set a 10minute timer, then be active then set another 10minute timer rinse repeat.

Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse to break them. Do as you wish. But you wont have much of a PL service when all your "clients" keep getting banned for afk botting. Good luck.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:03 PM by Bradekes
Numatic wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 9:18 PM
Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse to break them. Do as you wish. But you wont have much of a PL service when all your "clients" keep getting banned for afk botting. Good luck.
Who says I am being ignorant?

Straight from the rules:
If you are playing from the same household and one of you has to AFK for more than 10 minutes, make sure to log out of the game as you might get tested for dual logging. If, after 10 minutes, the test fails, the ban will be applied.

Is being power-leveled the same as playing from the same household? Are there any other mentioning of AFK in the rules? No!

I am clearly just asking for a real answer and either for the GM to update their rules or to specify whether or not this is okay. I am just trying to run a short-term, in-game business to get gold for my 100p guild house that I want. If the GM haven't responded to this yet, they are either avoiding this subject or waiting to see what the fellow players think of this before they give their input.

They cannot expect people to follow unsaid rules or to comb through every forum looking for hidden rules. They are very professional people so I would think they would address this, as PLing has been around almost as long as the game has been around, they would/should of addressed this if there was any rules regarding it specifically!
Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:10 PM by Numatic
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:03 PM
Numatic wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 9:18 PM
Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse to break them. Do as you wish. But you wont have much of a PL service when all your "clients" keep getting banned for afk botting. Good luck.
Who says I am being ignorant?

Straight from the rules:
If you are playing from the same household and one of you has to AFK for more than 10 minutes, make sure to log out of the game as you might get tested for dual logging. If, after 10 minutes, the test fails, the ban will be applied.

Is being power-leveled the same as playing from the same household? Are there any other mentioning of AFK in the rules? No!

I am clearly just asking for a real answer and either for the GM to update their rules or to specify whether or not this is okay. I am just trying to run a short-term, in-game business to get gold for my 100p guild house that I want. If the GM haven't responded to this yet, they are either avoiding this subject or waiting to see what the fellow players think of this before they give their input.

They cannot expect people to follow unsaid rules or to comb through every forum looking for hidden rules. They are very professional people so I would think they would address this, as PLing has been around almost as long as the game has been around, they would/should of addressed this if there was any rules regarding it specifically!

This is where lack of common sense is something the GMs cant fix. If you cant do it with one person, what makes you think you can do it with another? Simply because the "motivation" is different? Afk is afk. End of story. No afk botting. You have been answered. You have your answer. Nothing more to be said at this point. It's all good. Like I said, feel free to do your PL service. You know the restrictions now.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:14 PM by Bradekes
Numatic wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:10 PM
This is where lack of common sense is something the GMs cant fix. If you cant do it with one person, what makes you think you can do it with another? Simply because the "motivation" is different? Afk is afk. End of story. No afk botting. You have been answered. You have your answer. Nothing more to be said at this point. It's all good. Like I said, feel free to do your PL service. You know the restrictions now.

How is getting a PL botting exactly? botting is completely different man.. I will have two out of group people assisting me, a mentalist for HoTs and a Druid for buffs, we will share the profit, so there is incentive for everyone to be active and doing their part. The ones being PL should not be held to botting as they are standing there soaking exp. I am unsure how it could even be defined as botting. Those rules I just posted are to prevent Buffbots there are no "in-between-the-lines" I am choosing to ignore.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:25 PM by Numatic
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:14 PM
Numatic wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:10 PM
This is where lack of common sense is something the GMs cant fix. If you cant do it with one person, what makes you think you can do it with another? Simply because the "motivation" is different? Afk is afk. End of story. No afk botting. You have been answered. You have your answer. Nothing more to be said at this point. It's all good. Like I said, feel free to do your PL service. You know the restrictions now.

How is getting a PL botting exactly? botting is completely different man.. I will have two out of group people assisting me, a mentalist for HoTs and a Druid for buffs, we will share the profit, so there is incentive for everyone to be active and doing their part. The ones being PL should not be held to botting as they are standing there soaking exp. I am unsure how it could even be defined as botting. Those rules I just posted are to prevent Buffbots there are no "in-between-the-lines" I am choosing to ignore.

They are botting because they are not there. That's the entire definition of a bot. If he is afk for more then a certain amount of time, the GM may test him. If he doesnt pass the test, he will be banned. If he is there and can respond to the GM, its perfectly fine. Whether you agree with it or not is inconsequential. It's a firm stance that they will not change.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:33 PM by Bradekes
Numatic wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:25 PM
They are botting because they are not there. That's the entire definition of a bot. If he is afk for more then a certain amount of time, the GM may test him. If he doesnt pass the test, he will be banned. If he is there and can respond to the GM, its perfectly fine. Whether you agree with it or not is inconsequential. It's a firm stance that they will not change.

(1)If you are playing from the same household(1) and one of you has to AFK for more than 10 minutes, make sure to log out of the game as you might get tested for (2)dual logging(2). If, after 10 minutes, the test fails, the ban will be applied.

Read this again. This is very clear. It sets a certain circumstance that this rule applies to (1) and the exact thing they are prohibiting (2). None of your terminology is mentioned, you are wrong sir. Good day!
Fri 1 Feb 2019 11:05 PM by keen
Dude, this will lead to a ban. Not much more to say. Stop dragging attention of GMs, they are busy with important things.
You also think you can have a BB if you log it in at your neighbours PC? It is not the same household!
Fri 1 Feb 2019 11:13 PM by Bradekes
keen wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 11:05 PM
Dude, this will lead to a ban. Not much more to say. Stop dragging attention of GMs, they are busy with important things.
You also think you can have a BB if you log it in at your neighbours PC? It is not the same household!
There is no buffbot or mention of buffbot, why are you stating buffbot. Also show me in the official rules where Powerleveling is prohibited. I have a right to expect a GM to officiate a rule if they intend it to be followed, not a third-party, so you can also excuse yourself as you only are adding what others are saying, which are things that are not part of the official rules. I am not interested thank you!
Fri 1 Feb 2019 11:45 PM by Quik
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 11:13 PM
keen wrote:
Fri 1 Feb 2019 11:05 PM
Dude, this will lead to a ban. Not much more to say. Stop dragging attention of GMs, they are busy with important things.
You also think you can have a BB if you log it in at your neighbours PC? It is not the same household!
There is no buffbot or mention of buffbot, why are you stating buffbot. Also show me in the official rules where Powerleveling is prohibited. I have a right to expect a GM to officiate a rule if they intend it to be followed, not a third-party, so you can also excuse yourself as you only are adding what others are saying, which are things that are not part of the official rules. I am not interested thank you!

Power leveling is NOT against the rules.

Having someone go afk and leaving the keyboard for extended lengths of time is considered a form of botting here. They haven't tried to hide this.

Multiple posts have already been made and responded to ever since the start of beta.

Just stay at your keyboard and if you plan on leaving for more then 5-10 minutes then log out. It doesn't matter if it is a buffbot or a PL or an afk aggro pet class, if you are getting xp or loot or ANYTHING that advances the game then it will be considered botting if they do their test and you don't reply.

You can PL all you want though, they don't care about that at all, it is just the afk advancement they are eliminating. They don't limit it to just buffbots, they apply it to anyone who goes afk for over 10 minutes and is gaining anything in the game.

Go afk all you want in an out of the way place and they don't care.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 11:56 PM by Bradekes
I appreciate your very thorough comment, which is very helpful!

This is really a shortcoming of the staff to forget to add this to their list of rules. I know they are busy and things, but I have been on here all day following this thread looking for an official response, seems to me it could of been addressed by now. Even them coming into this post and responding honestly isn't enough if they don't put it in the main rules... Everyone seems to think I am trying just to be difficult but I am trying to keep the server populace informed with info they need to follow the rules.

Being blind-sighted by a GM banning you for 3 days for being afk, even though someone is following the official stated rules, would definitely make me never want to come back. Just a thought for the staff around here who do a great job btw!!! but this is a big deal to me!
Sat 2 Feb 2019 12:25 AM by Turtle006
Read rule 5. "Any other means that allow unattended game play."

There you go. In the rules and explicitly clear.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:17 AM by Bradekes
Turtle006 wrote:
Sat 2 Feb 2019 12:25 AM
Read rule 5. "Any other means that allow unattended game play."

There you go. In the rules and explicitly clear.

5. (1)Hotkeys to auto queue attacks or spells, or any other action which we determine as an unfair advantage to your character.(1)
(2)(It is allowed to bind multiple actions to a key, however, delays, repeats, and conditions are strictly forbidden(2), as well as any other action that allows (3)unattended game-play(3))

1st offense: Deletion of all characters and 2-weeks ban
2nd offense: permaban of Player

Okay here is all of Rule 5!

Let's break this down instead of misinterpreting it. First of all noticed highlight area (1) There is no unfair advantage being gained by a Hotkey to auto queue attacks or spells as I, the powerleveler, am not a Hotkey bot. This is also not an unfair advantage as anyone with the plat can purchase my service.

Okay, now let's breakdown highlight (2). Again nothing here applies to the process or afk state of my group members.

Now (3) which I am assuming you are trying to twist to fit your agenda of proving me wrong. The biggest issue with this is they are not completing any unattended game-play. Their character would just be sitting there, not casting any spell or performing any action, which is what (1) is directed towards.

This rule is simply put in there to say no auto leveling bots, as in a program guided character that attempts to level up without a person at the keyboard performing actions like auto attacks or casting spells. You cannot deny that is the intent. I don't know why you would try to take the effort to say otherwise. Good try my friend! However, you are wrong! Good day!
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:20 AM by Quik
Actually to me it is very clear and easy to understand.

Unattended gameplay is NOT allowed.

Being PL'ed and going afk is exactly that, unattended gameplay.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:27 AM by Bradekes
You need to explain how being AFK is unattended game-play, especially in the context that this rule is enforcing. As there is no game-play by the AFK only an unattended character. If this was the case it would be against the rules to AFK for any period of time seeings this rule has no amount of time given.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:45 AM by Quik
Ok so I am REALLY confused now.

You want to know how AFK is unattended gameplay?

It literally means away from keyboard which is the definition of unattended. It means you are not at your computer while your account is still gaining something in the game.

The dev's have not tried to hide this. They have never sugar coated it. It has been stated multiple times throughout beta as well as live...

If you are going to go afk for more then 5-10 minutes and they notice you or you are reported, they will do a bot check. If you fail or don't answer you will be considered to be a bot and will be banned for a few days. If you are still around your computer and you can reply to their test and pass then they will let you alone to continue.

If you plan on PLing someone for an hour and they have no plans to be their for the bot check then expect repercussions. If they can respond then you are fine, but they will have to prove they aren't a bot.

You can not gain xp/money/loot/rp's and be afk for an extended period of time and not expect them to check on you.

Anyone can go afk at any time, but if it is going to be for 10+ minutes they have ALWAYS said it might be in your best interest to either log out or at least disband and get somewhere safe.

They apply the same rules to EVERYONE to avoid buffbots. Just because you are PLing someone does not mean you are exempt from the rules. You have to follow the same rules as I do and I expect the same check if I was PLing a friend.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:50 AM by Bradekes
No that is not unattended gameplay, did you read the rest of the rule... It is clearly talking about macro leveling/gameplay not being AFK in a group setting.. seriously I don't understand why this is so hard to understand... I need someone else's input thanks!
Sat 2 Feb 2019 4:31 AM by Turtle006
It literally says "any other form of unattended game play" if that isn't enough for you, then sure go ahead and get yourself banned. I don't know what else to say.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 4:55 AM by cortexqc
Turtle006 wrote:
Sat 2 Feb 2019 4:31 AM
It literally says "any other form of unattended game play" if that isn't enough for you, then sure go ahead and get yourself banned. I don't know what else to say.

out of context you can says what you want to some words.

this warning is the end of a rule about macroing /boting /scripting rule to says all kind of third party software giving you a possibility of an automated gameplay. this is what i understand.

what else to say? clearly specify afk rules if there is some specifications.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 5:05 AM by Bradekes
Turtle006 wrote:
Sat 2 Feb 2019 4:31 AM
It literally says "any other form of unattended game play" if that isn't enough for you, then sure go ahead and get yourself banned. I don't know what else to say.

Do you understand what context is? This is like saying, "If you're on the moon you cannot breath" but your on earth so you can breath but you are telling people it's against the rules... There is information before those words pertaining to what specific type of unattended play they are talking about. AFK in a group is not unattended gameplay, seriously stop using this argument. This is not what the rule is talking about. You cannot pick and choose the little statements and use them as blanket statements and assume. You have to agree that these rules are not entirely clear or specific.

If the person in the group was using macros to heal while they were AFK this would apply, because that is unattended gameplay. The AFK people being powerleveled are not providing any support or actions to say they are even gamePLAYING.

5. Hotkeys to auto queue attacks or spells, or any other action which we determine as an unfair advantage to your character.

This is the information before the statement you are citing. Being powerleveled is not an unfair advantage to anyone's character. If it is a powerlevel service anyone with the plat can get this benefit. Someone has to be gaining something someone else cannot by the action before it can be enforced as breaking the rules. I encourage you to work with me to get more clear rules instead of going against me. It would help everyone in the future and you saying it is okay for them not to be specific is going to make these type of threads to keep popping up.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 5:39 AM by Numatic
Bradekes wrote:
Sat 2 Feb 2019 5:05 AM
Turtle006 wrote:
Sat 2 Feb 2019 4:31 AM
It literally says "any other form of unattended game play" if that isn't enough for you, then sure go ahead and get yourself banned. I don't know what else to say.

Do you understand what context is? This is like saying, "If you're on the moon you cannot breath" but your on earth so you can breath but you are telling people it's against the rules... There is information before those words pertaining to what specific type of unattended play they are talking about. AFK in a group is not unattended gameplay, seriously stop using this argument. This is not what the rule is talking about. You cannot pick and choose the little statements and use them as blanket statements and assume. You have to agree that these rules are not entirely clear or specific.

If the person in the group was using macros to heal while they were AFK this would apply, because that is unattended gameplay. The AFK people being powerleveled are not providing any support or actions to say they are even gamePLAYING.

5. Hotkeys to auto queue attacks or spells, or any other action which we determine as an unfair advantage to your character.

This is the information before the statement you are citing. Being powerleveled is not an unfair advantage to anyone's character. If it is a powerlevel service anyone with the plat can get this benefit. Someone has to be gaining something someone else cannot by the action before it can be enforced as breaking the rules. I encourage you to work with me to get more clear rules instead of going against me. It would help everyone in the future and you saying it is okay for them not to be specific is going to make these type of threads to keep popping up.

Do you even know the definition of Unattended? It means to be absent from. Afk in a group is 100% unattended gameplay. However the GMs allow it for about 10 mins because they know people dont want to disband for a bathroom break or cigarette.

UNATTENDED means any instance in which you are not there. That is LITERALLY the definition of the word. So you sir, are 100% wrong and trying to split hairs. You are done. Goodbye.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 8:37 AM by Turtle006
Since one of the devs quoted that exact rule in response to leaving a pet on aggressive and going AFK. I am pretty confident it will be treated the same way. But I am not risking anything here, so go ahead and split whatever hairs you think you can.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 10:49 AM by Freudinio
Ofcourse you are allowed to go afk.

lol.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:21 PM by Bradekes
Hotkeys to auto queue attacks or spells, or any other action which we determine as an unfair advantage to your character.

Explain to me what action an afk player is taking before you keep pointing at this rule. You have to understand the first part of the rule has to apply before the second part applies...

So seriously stop filling my post with garbage interpretation. I need a GM to clarify their meaning and then I need them to fix their official rule to clarify.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:25 PM by Renork
I suggest going on Discord and asking there since GMs are usually very active there. Also, some of you truly need to go outside.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 2:09 PM by Anaethema
Bradekes wrote:
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:21 PM
Hotkeys to auto queue attacks or spells, or any other action which we determine as an unfair advantage to your character.

Explain to me what action an afk player is taking before you keep pointing at this rule. You have to understand the first part of the rule has to apply before the second part applies...

So seriously stop filling my post with garbage interpretation. I need a GM to clarify their meaning and then I need them to fix their official rule to clarify.

I am not an Admin nor a GM, but I can tell you this - if you want a breakdown of EVERY possible action that breaks this rule you will never get it. The rule you quoted is called a blanket clause, which means it's up to the GM/Admin's interpretation whether or not you are breaking the spirit of the rule. Their server, their rules.

As a general guideline you can follow... if you aren't sure if it's allowed, then don't do it.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 2:26 PM by Bradekes
Anaethema wrote:
Sat 2 Feb 2019 2:09 PM
I am not an Admin nor a GM, but I can tell you this - if you want a breakdown of EVERY possible action that breaks this rule you will never get it. The rule you quoted is called a blanket clause, which means it's up to the GM/Admin's interpretation whether or not you are breaking the spirit of the rule. Their server, their rules.

As a general guideline you can follow... if you aren't sure if it's allowed, then don't do it.

Thank you for your response! I appreciate your work on here!

I agree that it would be impossible to list every type of action. My problem is there are absolutely zero examples of the unattended gameplay statement in the rule, except blatant scripting, macroing, botting, which being AFK while getting powerleveled is not actually in the category of such heinous activities.

I will not start my powerlevel service until I get a clear statement about whether or not this is okay. As far as I'm concerned, powerleveling has been a staple part of this game from the beginning, so, to me, this is something I feel they would of specifically covered if there was a problem with it.

Thank you for your time!
Sat 2 Feb 2019 7:09 PM by Anaethema
I only help take care of the forums.. but thanks!

Probably your best bet of getting an answer is asking in discord. There hasn't been an answer here for several days so perhaps discord will yield results instead.
Tue 5 Feb 2019 4:40 PM by Wohop
Anaethema wrote:
Sat 2 Feb 2019 2:09 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:21 PM
Hotkeys to auto queue attacks or spells, or any other action which we determine as an unfair advantage to your character.

Explain to me what action an afk player is taking before you keep pointing at this rule. You have to understand the first part of the rule has to apply before the second part applies...

So seriously stop filling my post with garbage interpretation. I need a GM to clarify their meaning and then I need them to fix their official rule to clarify.

I am not an Admin nor a GM, but I can tell you this - if you want a breakdown of EVERY possible action that breaks this rule you will never get it. The rule you quoted is called a blanket clause, which means it's up to the GM/Admin's interpretation whether or not you are breaking the spirit of the rule. Their server, their rules.

As a general guideline you can follow... if you aren't sure if it's allowed, then don't do it.

Some people can’t see beyond what’s right in front of them and others choose not to look. The way these guys handle facts you would think dodger is back
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:13 PM by Stimmed
To me your service seems fine. Going by the rules you are breaking none Power leveling these people. You cant control if they afk. They will be the ones that have to make sure there at there computer while being Power Leveled. I would just make sure when they accept that you tell them to be at there PC while your doing it or they could be banned and that's not your fault etc.
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:15 PM by Quik
Stimmed wrote:
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:13 PM
To me your service seems fine. Going by the rules you are breaking none Power leveling these people. You cant control if they afk. They will be the ones that have to make sure there at there computer while being Power Leveled. I would just make sure when they accept that you tell them to be at there PC while your doing it or they could be banned and that's not your fault etc.

Exactly this. You aren't doing anything wrong, they would be the ones to answer to the GM's.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 4:04 AM by Mgh
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. I created this account just to post.

The whole context of logging out if AFK for longer than 10 minutes is if you are playing from the same house. There is NOTHING and absolutely no reason to log out if you are not playing from the same house.

A household that has two people playing has the same IP address for both accounts. That is the whole thing that will alert a GM to test you for dual logging. If the person being PL'd goes AFK, the GM should see that they are a completely different IP address and know it's not a dual logger.

As for the whole "unattended" gameplay argument, it fails to recognize that the player has essentially already "done the gameplay to level up" by farming/producing the plat. It ALSO fails to recognize the already completely normal situation of someone AFK'ing in a normal group. People frequently need to AFK in a group while the rest of the group continues pulling. The AFK person is still benefiting but is not there. That is NOT AT ALL what the rules are talking about regarding "unattended gameplay".

I think the OP should be completely fine and his customers should be completely fine to AFK. As is, reading the rules IN CONTEXT, there are no rules being broken, and in my opinion, nor is the spirit of any rule being violated.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 10:38 AM by muertorix
Same for me. The rules apply ONLY if you log 2 accounts from the same household. Nothing is written about going AFK if the second account logs with another IP
Wed 6 Feb 2019 10:52 AM by keen
muertorix wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 10:38 AM
Same for me. The rules apply ONLY if you log 2 accounts from the same household. Nothing is written about going AFK if the second account logs with another IP
So playing with a VPN from the same household would be fine?
The thing is, they can not determine if you are from the same household or not. Hence they will check you if you get reported for dual login. If you fail, accs will be banned.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 11:08 AM by Ceen
keen wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 10:52 AM
muertorix wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 10:38 AM
Same for me. The rules apply ONLY if you log 2 accounts from the same household. Nothing is written about going AFK if the second account logs with another IP
So playing with a VPN from the same household would be fine?
The thing is, they can not determine if you are from the same household or not. Hence they will check you if you get reported for dual login. If you fail, accs will be banned.

Doesnt matter what your ip adress is. If you get reported for botting you will have to do the test. If you fail your main acc is banned for some days as well.
So if I would run a power level service I would check them every 8 min by myself and else kick them out of group.

Just give them tinders and if there is no tinder you kick them
Wed 6 Feb 2019 11:24 AM by Durgrim
Well, I do agree up to a certain extend.
First of all, VPN or mobile phone connecting 2nd pc or whatsoever does not give the GM the possibility to determine, whether it is the same person or not. Fine.
At least in the first view he cannot determine and punish both accounts, because one is playing actively and the other one is sitting around afk for 25min already and every 30min he is jumping to the PC, checks his messages or jumps 1x and then goes afk.
If these are 2 different players then everything is fine.
But me as GM I would certainly dig a bit deeper...check IP address of forum access, check intereactions and chats (by filter) of this little toon, check whether these 2 accounts have ever written something simultaneously whilst being online, etc. etc. etc....there are many ways of figuring out When this little toon has never had any conversation in group or interaction and so on with other people....
And If I encounter some frictions which backs my assumption that this little char is a dual log account of the big one leveling him: Perma ban for both.

If that's not the case and the OP and his to be PL'd toon in group is NOT the same person, then the OP MUST NOT take the responsibility of another individual violating the rules. Period.
If they did, which I hope they will never do, they are acting arbitrarily and not based on any evidence BUT...it is still their server and thus their barbeque and THEY can decide whom to let play on THEIR conditions or not. You may find this strange and unlawful or unfair, you may also cry....but this doesn't help you out. If they ban you for whatever reason they come up with, it is their right to do so. In ANY case. You have no claim to use their server or their service.

But to close the loop, I would feel very uncomfortable if I was responsible for the responsiveness of my group members. Try to figure this out during TG raids where almost 20% are afk...or whilst farming other places with full group.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 11:32 AM by Bradekes
Mgh wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 4:04 AM
The whole context of logging out if AFK for longer than 10 minutes is if you are playing from the same house. There is NOTHING and absolutely no reason to log out if you are not playing from the same house.

I have mentioned this multiple times. The people on this forum can be difficult. They like to find the smallest bit of wording that looks like it applies and forget about context, and also they like to act like I'm the ignorant one....

I just wanted a real GM to clarify something that is not specifically mentioned and I could never get that here even after such a long time. The effort I spent fighting the trolls to get my question answered is not worth it. So, I am giving up on the forums. It's just for the trolls. They can keep it, but thanks for not being a troll!
Wed 6 Feb 2019 11:34 AM by Sepplord
I never thought a guildie (for example) being AFK in group would be problematic...as long as it is really another player and not dual logged.
I ahve also seen guild grps openly admit that their guildie-shaman is afk and out of grp since he wants to help them level


I haven't seen a single mention of logging out if you have to afk longer than ten minutes UNLESS it was in the context of people playing from one household.


They probably do not officially answer this, because it is a grey zone to enforce and they don't want to explain in detail how they catch multi-loggers. We know there is a test at the end of being checked on, but we don't know what comes before. I expect them to being reasonable in their decisionmaking as they a) want their server to succeed and b) because otherwise we would have seen more people complain when getting banned unrightfully.


Regarding the different opinions in this thread though, if i ever play a shaman i would make sure what the devs stance is on "playing buffbot while afk" for other players
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:12 PM by Mac
Check out this recent ban, it has nothing to do with dual logging. It's a guy solo running an AFK script. https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4726

"14 day ban and deletion of all characters for afk-script leveling."
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:13 PM by Ceen
Mac wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:12 PM
Check out this recent ban, it has nothing to do with dual logging. It's a guy solo running an AFK script. https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4726

"14 day ban and deletion of all characters for afk-script leveling."
Not relevant for this thread ^^
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:17 PM by Mac
Ceen wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:13 PM
Mac wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:12 PM
Check out this recent ban, it has nothing to do with dual logging. It's a guy solo running an AFK script. https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4726

"14 day ban and deletion of all characters for afk-script leveling."
Not relevant for this thread ^^

It directly addresses all the posters here that say the ONLY way to get in trouble with AFK leveling is in a dual log situation. Clearly those people are mistaken. Can people be Power leveled? Sure but NOT unattended.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:18 PM by Ceen
I disagree it's another topic, I dont see a relation between a script user and power level service.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:26 PM by Mac
Ceen wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:18 PM
I disagree it's another topic, I dont see a relation between a script user and power level service.

The commonality is the AFK mode.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 1:55 PM by Sepplord
Mac wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:26 PM
Ceen wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:18 PM
I disagree it's another topic, I dont see a relation between a script user and power level service.

The commonality is the AFK mode.

Do you not realise what AFK-script means?

It means he had a programm inputting commands, basically a bot running his toon....

what the actual f***


the comparisons are really getting worse and worse
Wed 6 Feb 2019 2:41 PM by Afuldan
I wouldn’t worry too much. Just tell your dudes that its the single most mind numbing thing they could do is getting PL’d, since they have to be at the keyboard while you do all the work. I’ve gone linkdead while afking, as well, and they probably will go LD if they try to afk.

And if they make a afk script that they WILL br caught, so make sure to stay at computer.

Exp gains are so fast here if you use task items that I don’t see the point of sitting in one spot for hours not making as much xp as they could solo, unless you have some way of solo chain pulling red mobs to get task credits as well.

Hint: your service isn’t as needed here as on a regular server without the exp items. But you do you, man.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 3:10 PM by Koljar
Mac wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:12 PM
"14 day ban and deletion of all characters for afk-script leveling."
Imho the major reason for the ban/deletion was the script. Basically the same as the macro usage with implemented delays and repetitions.

Haven't seen anyon getting banned for being afk. But I'm honestly too lazy to check that.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 4:29 PM by Ardri
Getting my hopes up that this was an actual PL service thread. If anyone PL's on mid feel free to message me
Thu 14 Mar 2019 8:10 PM by flyingnehpets
I am not a member of the Phoenix staff. I can only interpret the rules with how they are stated here.

You're asking three different questions:

a) Can I Power Level someone?
Yes, of course you can!
There is nothing against the rules of grouping with someone lower level than you and killing mobs equal to, or greater than your level.

b) Can another player in my group go AFK while I am killing mobs for xp/items?
Yes, of course they can!
You can't control the actions of another playing. Unless they are physically within your home. That's a different issue though, and one that has already been addressed.
What that player decides to do; whether they go AFK for 10+ minutes, run a script that makes them salvage all dropped items, or has them telling jokes or spamming someone with profanity, is beyond your control. If they themselves break the rules then their account will be dealt with by the Game Masters.

c) Can I provide a service stating that a player may join my group and go AFK during the duration of the formed group.

There are no rules, as indicated here, that state any of the following:
- A player outside of your household going AFK during the duration of a formed group.
- A player who is not dual-logging can not AFK for any extended period of time. This is what the AFK times are for.

Oh, those pesky AFK timers. They have a job and they do it well. You can circumvent these AFK timers. How? By being AFK and not allowing the timer to do it's job. And how does one do that? Well, you can have your character /stick to someone so the character is constantly moving, thus bypassing the AFK timer. There are other ways as well. Some more creative than others. If you or a group member is AFK and is doing something to avoid the AFK timer, then this is, in fact, an exploitation of a game mechanic, which is clearly against the rules:

10. Bug abuse and exploits
Reporting of all exploits to the staff is mandatory. You are required to immediately report and discontinue use of all discovered exploits.

10.2 Exploiting is defined as the commission of an action within the game to circumvent or alter the normal functions of the said game.

Depending on the abuse, we will also remove XP, RP, Coin, Skill, BP, Items or other.



And on that one rule I think they can kaibosh you're entire PL service, assuming you also offer the incentive for grouped members to go AFK and avoid the AFK timer.

The next issue is that, if you mislead someone in to going perma-AFK, and their account is reprimanded and consequences given to them, but not you, AND you also received in game currency for the "service", then I feel this is in violation of:

9. In-game Behavior

9.3 Scamming is defined as a fraudulent scheme, especially for making a quick profit; swindle.
Also defined as to cheat or defraud with a scam. Proof from the involved account must be submitted to Phoenix staff. An investigation will then take place to determine if it is indeed scamming.



Just my 2 cents.

- FN
Mon 18 Mar 2019 10:40 AM by spell
I think players are confusing “unattended” with “unintended”. If the rules says unattended, you have to be at your computer.

Not very difficult topic. Definition of attend: be present at (an event, meeting, or function)
Mon 18 Mar 2019 3:11 PM by Durgrim
flyingnehpets wrote:
Fri 15 Mar 2019 9:02 PM
See this post

Player : Heidy
Ban : 24 Hours
Reason 2nd time AFK leveling

how is this related to the OP's question about PLing?
AFK Leveling can be a Bonedancer with his pets.
If it was macro, would be more hours/days
Mon 18 Mar 2019 3:23 PM by Durgrim
spell wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 10:40 AM
I think players are confusing “unattended” with “unintended”. If the rules says unattended, you have to be at your computer.

sure?

M.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 3:54 PM by Durgrim
Durgrim wrote:
Wed 6 Feb 2019 11:24 AM
Well, I do agree up to a certain extend.
First of all, VPN or mobile phone connecting 2nd pc or whatsoever does not give the GM the possibility to determine, whether it is the same person or not. Fine.
At least in the first view he cannot determine and punish both accounts, because one is playing actively and the other one is sitting around afk for 25min already and every 30min he is jumping to the PC, checks his messages or jumps 1x and then goes afk.
If these are 2 different players then everything is fine.
But me as GM I would certainly dig a bit deeper...check IP address of forum access, check intereactions and chats (by filter) of this little toon, check whether these 2 accounts have ever written something simultaneously whilst being online, etc. etc. etc....there are many ways of figuring out When this little toon has never had any conversation in group or interaction and so on with other people....
And If I encounter some frictions which backs my assumption that this little char is a dual log account of the big one leveling him: Perma ban for both.

If that's not the case and the OP and his to be PL'd toon in group is NOT the same person, then the OP MUST NOT take the responsibility of another individual violating the rules. Period.
If they did, which I hope they will never do, they are acting arbitrarily and not based on any evidence BUT...it is still their server and thus their barbeque and THEY can decide whom to let play on THEIR conditions or not. You may find this strange and unlawful or unfair, you may also cry....but this doesn't help you out. If they ban you for whatever reason they come up with, it is their right to do so. In ANY case. You have no claim to use their server or their service.

But to close the loop, I would feel very uncomfortable if I was responsible for the responsiveness of my group members. Try to figure this out during TG raids where almost 20% are afk...or whilst farming other places with full group.

for those who did not read the whole pages
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:42 PM by flyingnehpets
The fact that we're at 7 or 8 pages now leads me to ask..

Why haven't you (the OP) tried yet? And if you or anyone else has, why have you/they not posted to let us know?
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:10 PM by Perissh
flyingnehpets wrote:
Fri 15 Mar 2019 9:02 PM
See this post

Player : Heidy
Ban : 24 Hours
Reason 2nd time AFK leveling

I take this to mean they had a pet up and were leveling themselves while AFK.

If the rules state or intend that someone getting power leveled can't go AFK, that is absolutely ridiculous.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:30 PM by Bradekes
flyingnehpets wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:42 PM
The fact that we're at 7 or 8 pages now leads me to ask..

Why haven't you (the OP) tried yet? And if you or anyone else has, why have you/they not posted to let us know?

For one.. No real GMs ever stated any ruling reguarding this post, only forum Mod... Also my trio isn't reliably on... But I'm still curious and would like to know still cause I may start one up as I restarted on Mid and it would be a good way to get my economy restarted with the new character slots available.
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