Leaving the portal keep, pt 2!

As to your feedback and after internal discussions we will do the following changes:

„The 3 minutes timer will be removed. You will be able again to leave the portal keep after you released without any delay.

The 3 minutes timer will be active when a relic is in transit.“

We still think that the idea behind this change is a good one and that there is a problem with non-existent realm sickness (due to the healer in the portal keep) and the possibility to release to the keep. But first let me explain some things about our intentions.

A while back in Beta we changed that you would release to your portal keep and we did this for two reasons:
The first was because we have instant ports and the second reason was because the current client likes to just mess up when zoning repeatedly, first the maps stop working and later other issues arise. All of you who played during the Beta and especially at the end of the Beta will still remember that we could never really test our relic system because they were implemented shortly before the end and only a few people were left playing and not interested in raiding them.

We were going live with a bit of not knowing what „problems“ might occur. To us this is not a problem but a chance. We always said, most of our changes are not set into stone and if we see something that is not working as intended we are not afraid of changing this. Even if this might fail, you cant improve yourself if you dont try it.

Thats why we made an internal voting and decided to have some kind of a timer when the relic is in transit to stop people to just run, getting killed and repeat to protect the relic and its carrier. Thinking about this change it also came to our minds that this lemminglike behaviour effects the daily RvR too. Thats why we put in the 3 mins timer. Knowing that the RvR tasks create some „uncommon“ behaviour. Even if you just getting killed, you will still get a nice amount of rps and xp.

On the one hand we would like to offer you as much as possible fun, very short downtimes for every playstyle, but on the other hand it shouldnt get ridiculous. This is the new task for the staff. To find a solution that will make all of us happy and where no one feels disadvantaged.

We want you to tell us what you think of a possible solution to this problem. What do you think is the best way to solve this? Feel free to post here and give us some reasonable ideas.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 2:48 PM by Magesty

RvR Rez sickness. Simple, easy, effective, and can’t be cured by healer. It makes it so players with it are discouraged from going out to fight due to reduced effectiveness/snare and enemy players have little reason to camp a PK as peeps with sickness aren’t worth or are significantly reduced.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=869&p=4380#p4380

Fri 1 Feb 2019 2:49 PM by nixxo87

some people were saying remove the healer from portal keeps, thus making you port home to heal and port back.

[Chimaera]: As stated in Uthred's post, the client experiences buggy behavior in changing zones, and we want to minimize that.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 2:54 PM by spell

I was mainly frustrated by not having any indicator on the time remaining. We should of had a debuff or something that counts down from 3 minutes. Many people had no idea what was going on and thought they were bugged. Not everyone reads the forums or discord links. 3 minutes does seem an eternity, so if anything, I would say in the future something along the lines of 2 minutes but have some sort of icon to show the remaining time and explain what it is.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:00 PM by opossum12

On live this lemminglike behavior is controlled with the fact that you cannot cure rvr rez sickness at a healer. You can still run out (you run slower since you released) but aren’t 100% operational until rez sickness is over.

I think you could :

- not allow res sick to be cured with a healer.
- run at 80% speed when rez sick from releasing (no speed penalty when rezzed, not sure if this is already the case here tbh.
- create rez sickness cure potions (for people that do not want to wait)
- review the rez sickness duration so that it doesn’t feel like half an hour. I think 3 minutes is fine, not sure what it is now.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:02 PM by Wasted_Content

I still like the idea of doors closed for 3 minutes, open for 30 seconds, first port in is free.

Reduces lemming like behavior (at least they will be clumped so..larger groups of lemmings are theoretically more protected, right?)

Still gives awards to victors of a fight, handles keep situations and relic situations (ur keeping 3 min timer for relics anyway)

I'm also a fan of the uncurable rez sickness idea. Gives similar benefits. Maybe a little more downtime in the longrun? But not by much.

I think forcing ports home to cure sickness (removing healer) is a bad idea because then u just have thousands of people porting their booties off at light speed (sounds bad for server lag when u say it like that doesnt it?)

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:02 PM by keen

You can cure rezz sickness on live with MLs, there is no difference to the setting with a NPC healer.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:03 PM by Herbdoctor

Magesty wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Feb 2019 2:48 PM
RvR Rez sickness. Simple, easy, effective, and can’t be cured by healer. It makes it so players with it are discouraged from going out to fight due to reduced effectiveness/snare and enemy players have little reason to camp a PK as peeps with sickness aren’t worth or are significantly reduced.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=869&p=4380#p4380

no, no, no.

leave it how they changed it.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:04 PM by opossum12

keen wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:02 PM
You can cure rezz sickness on live with MLs, there is no difference to the setting with a NPC healer.

You can cure RS of 1 person with MLs.... When grouped you still need wait for minimum 4-5 people's rez sick to wear off since not everybody runs a perfecter bot.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:09 PM by Magesty

Herbdoctor wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:03 PM
Magesty wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Feb 2019 2:48 PM
RvR Rez sickness. Simple, easy, effective, and can’t be cured by healer. It makes it so players with it are discouraged from going out to fight due to reduced effectiveness/snare and enemy players have little reason to camp a PK as peeps with sickness aren’t worth or are significantly reduced.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=869&p=4380#p4380

no, no, no.

leave it how they changed it.

Great post. Clear and insightful.

What does “Leave it how they changed it” even mean? Do you mean this current iteration, the iteration from yesterday or the iteration that existed when the server launched? Why are any of those better than RvR rez illness?

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:17 PM by Pbuck

Do NOT under any circumstance punish solo players-smallmen for dying. When they get run over by full groups +, they shouldn't be forced to wait in the pk. Not curing the rezz sickness still presents the issue that the enemies will complain about the stream of players running out of the pk that are worth nothing( which is what you wanted to prevent in the first place ). I played till 5L6 doing a lot of solo( 400+ solo kills) and some grouping, leeching off zergs as well. Not ONCE have a I felt that the current system is ridiculous and that it should be changed to be more slow and tedious. Finally daoc is as it should be - fast action without any downtime- people with little time can log in and have some fun, and dying to greater numbers is no frustration at all if u can jump right back in the action. It is PERFECT like this, do NOT add unnecessary downtime and unwanted frustration. This an opinion from someone who for a very long time, was exclusively running in "8 man elitist groups", played on live( lots of high rr chars), played on uth 1( rr 11 theu) played on uth2(rr8 theu and no1 in alb for a long time). The last two servers degraded into an elitist 8v8 scene, I would hate phoenix having the same fate , and I do not want it to fall into a slippery slope. For me this is a red line. Not even 1 second of added downtime. Please!
I am already seeing people trying to compromise , and ask simply for "only 1 minute" or not removing rezz sickness. No to the first ( 1 minute x 60 deaths= still 1 wasted hour) and no to the second( people complained about stream of rezz sick players moving out of the pk). Not allowing them to move out unless they cure rezz sickness first, thats OK.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:17 PM by opossum12

There aren't a million solutions:

- You don't want people to port back and forth to cure RS, as it creates stress on the server and bugs start to appear.
- You don't want to imprison people in their portal keeps, it adds on top of the run you need to do to get to action.

You only want people that when they die and release, they aren't 100% effective within 15 seconds.

I only see RvR rez sickness as the good solution for that one to be honest.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:18 PM by Renork

Huge props to the team for taking into account player feedback. This is something previous servers (and most private servers) don’t do.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:19 PM by zenai

I'm responding to the question Uthred had at the end of his post. Tasks.

I personally love the task system, very happy its in place on Phoenix. It keeps ppl out in rvr, gives them goals and a sense of accomplishment. Allows for new players and players who would have turned only to pve for the night, to come out and "get some."

Having said that.
1. If the task is "kill in emain" you should actually have to KILL in emain. Not die in emain. (i thought toward the end of beta you changed it so ppl had to "successfully participate" meaning kill in order to complete the task... not just run and die.) Are you able to get rps right now if you just run and die? yuck.

2. If the task is "attack a keep" what is happening now.... a grp runs up to the door and agros guards... ppl smack the door one time and run away. They have "participated." This is completely wrong imo. While I have personally handled this task this way, cus i can with the way it is set up, this is NOT how it should work. I should not get 1000+ rps for hitting the door one time, not attacking any guards, etc.

3. Dominate - love it.

These are initial thoughts i have only to help get the convo started.....

xoxo

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:24 PM by Runental

As stated from someone before.
Non cureable RVR sickness about 2-3 minutes and all is fine.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:35 PM by exveer

I don't see this as a problem that needs solving. The relic scenario makes sense, but slowing down action is a step in the wrong direction imo.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:37 PM by tylerryan307

As I put in a different post that is now locked. I feel also punishing solo or small man is a bad move. There is a fix that I would like to see and it just has to do with giving people a way to change the current task they are on. So to prevent 3 zergs showing up in one spot fight and die and fight and die. It would allow small mans to attack some other place that the zergs is at. Get credit for the task and maybe even change some of the keeps to their realms favor. This would also allow the great people here at Phoenix to come up with some new realm tasks. The way it stands now is that each realm is forced to zerg in one zone and move after 10 - 15 minutes. Then just zerg the next area. The only split up task right now is the capture the flag type task which is awesome since all types of styles can be played. However, the bigger issue is not a lot of keeps are being taken or changing hands. This all comes down to everyone being forced to move to the task zone and zerg.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:42 PM by Ruek

I dont think there should be any penalty except during relic disruption. We have already been spoiled by curable rez sick so now to put it back in is sort of a slap in the face.

If there is absolutely going to be any sort of penalty to releasing, a 2minute noncurable rez sickness should suffice. At least you can choose to head out early and risk being attacked with reduced effectiveness along the way. Anything longer than that reduces rvr action and will result in players getting frustrated easier and logging sooner. Groups will not have the concentration to buff fully so are pretty much forced to wait, but smallmans and solos can quickly get back on the road.

There isnt much threat from smallmans and solos currently in the task zone. They just get batted down by zergs. Believe me ive tried, as smallman is my favorite style of rvr.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:46 PM by Ardri

Good change. The only thing that needed to be fixed was insta respawn for relic purposes.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:50 PM by Lewk

Outside of relics there is no point in having any timer. It takes quite a bit of time to do anything (find a group, buff, run 5+ min, look for fights, etc). We dont need more downtime forced on us.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:51 PM by Akopra

Good and fast reaction of the staff, pleasant to see you listen players

After i agree it's a bit unfair for the realm where is the tasks... as Mid i hesitate to go in Odin when task... and so people are there... and i also have a different playstyle there (less risky because of the travel/time to come back)

But without Crauchon, Bled and Beno (maybe Eras Nott and Crim too) other keeps can be defended correctly by their original realm i think, so yes it's very different than what we know, but is that really bad?

In every case i think if we let timers like that, or other patchs like that, many players will leave (because i think many chose Phoenix because xp/travel are faster than elsewhere... even if i find it's a problem of society that everybody want everything faster like in Mac Do even if it's less good, it's another debate... but DAoC need many people like now on Phoenix to have a good experience so i think we have to do with that ^^)

PS : sorry for my bad english, french rules, we have a debuff for that

Fri 1 Feb 2019 4:03 PM by Vlas

I don't see a problem to start with u die u return or u die u get rezzed to be in battle you are just stagnating rvr by having a timer leave it alone NO TIMER

Fri 1 Feb 2019 4:15 PM by Dve

To everyone who is suggesting a 3 minute incurable sickness:

Keep in mind, that incurable sickness is much WORSE than a 3 minute leash to the portalkeep. Why? Because you cannot even buff up during sickness due to reduced concentration on buff classes... People can do literally nothing then during the offtime and go AFK instead, and then slowly start buffing afterwards - and then you potentially have to wait forpeople who went afk for too long. The disruption it causes is just too big.

I can also imagine that half-assed buffing with reduced concentration can lead to confusion amongst the buffers in random pug groups, as they assume they might be supposed to buff the rest of the group and start to do it more or less randomly.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 4:16 PM by Zansobar

zenai wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:19 PM
I'm responding to the question Uthred had at the end of his post. Tasks.

I personally love the task system, very happy its in place on Phoenix. It keeps ppl out in rvr, gives them goals and a sense of accomplishment. Allows for new players and players who would have turned only to pve for the night, to come out and "get some."

Having said that.
1. If the task is "kill in emain" you should actually have to KILL in emain. Not die in emain. (i thought toward the end of beta you changed it so ppl had to "successfully participate" meaning kill in order to complete the task... not just run and die.) Are you able to get rps right now if you just run and die? yuck.

2. If the task is "attack a keep" what is happening now.... a grp runs up to the door and agros guards... ppl smack the door one time and run away. They have "participated." This is completely wrong imo. While I have personally handled this task this way, cus i can with the way it is set up, this is NOT how it should work. I should not get 1000+ rps for hitting the door one time, not attacking any guards, etc.

3. Dominate - love it.

These are initial thoughts i have only to help get the convo started.....

xoxo

I agree with this...the lemming behavior is due to the ease of "participation" in the RvR tasks, this needs to end. Dieing in RVR is NOT an accomplishment and should not be rewarded.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 4:28 PM by Lewk

"I agree with this...the lemming behavior is due to the ease of "participation" in the RvR tasks, this needs to end. Dieing in RVR is NOT an accomplishment and should not be rewarded."

Disagree. Was it an accomplishment to run over a solo 8v1? Zerg v 8 ? People have to run 5 to 10 min to get to the task zone. Reward people for coming out. Phoenix has the most active rvr scene I've ever seen in daoc because people are PARTICIPATING. I'd rather reward ANY participation as it means more people RvRing and in the zones. The alternative is people arent going to waste 10 min to run out without building an optimized group or a zerg to ensure a kill.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 4:33 PM by Dacht

I think the proposed changes to is solid.

I also like the following two options others mentioned:

1. Reduce timer to 2 minutes of incurable res sickness.
2. Releasing in an enemy rvr zone sends you back to your home realm, where you can hit the healer and port back in.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 4:37 PM by Ashenspire

"I'd rather have to zone, heal, port, and zone again rather than be unable to leave for an amount of time."

"Uncurable Rez sickness that I'm gonna wait until it wears off before I leave again is better!"

Different roads that lead to the same thing - you not getting back out of the portal keep for 2-3 minutes.

If you think the 3 minute timer is bad, suggesting other ~3 minute timers seems weird.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:04 PM by Hurleybird

My opinion:

1. Have a threshold on server population that will trigger multiple tasks in separate RVR regions. Once this threshold is reached a second task will launch in a different area to reduce zerging in one location and provide alternative action. This still allows for action to be centralized when the population is low.

2. Remove task completion for simply dying in an area - must get a kill (or successfully capture/kill a guard, etc.) at the keep you're attacking, must get a kill in the fighting tasks in Emain, Odin's, etc. Dominate tasks are fine.

3. The relic timer is fine I guess, not sure it is needed though. Relics should be hard to capture.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:12 PM by defiasbandit

There should never be any timer. The solution is to change how the task systems work. Don't add a rez sickness or timer for respawning. That is not what we need.

The big issue with RvR is that the dominant realms are camping outside enemy player keeps farming players. This is partly because the RvR task is in the portal zones Emain, Odins, Hadrians.. Fighting needs to be spread out more.

Having any type of rez sickness or timer has so much downside. We are glad it is gone so soon.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:17 PM by Tree

Well judging by the other thread where people complained they were in RvR 1min and then had to stay 3min in portal keep, I think the way RvR respawn is set up it incourages RvR feeding, running mindlessly into the enemies in hopes of maybe grabbing a few RP yourself before you die.

In classic RvR or on Uthgard for instance, you always knew the game was on and there were time-intensive consequences for playing bad and dying early.

So I do hope there can be found some middle ground.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:33 PM by tylerryan307

So there have been a lot of people speaking of different ways to change the realm task. I myself said that each person should have a way to pick a different way to change the task. Another person said that when a certain amount of people get online there should be an extra task added. What it comes down to is that the realm tasks needs to be tweaked that way zergs, small mans, and solo have a way to spread out in Old Frontiers.
Now back to the fix of setting up a timer for relics. Why not have a weekend realm task that lasts for 30 minutes to an hour that is a relic task which will automatically turn on the correct 3 min timer for deaths?
I am just trying to look at what the topic is about and help to come up with creative ways to fix what was asked of us.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:37 PM by Dimir

I think moving the 3 minute timer to be relic raid specific is a good idea.

I want to comment on the RvR tasks. As other's have echoed, there are good and bad parts of this system and I do feel like it's overall a positive change to DAoC but I think the ability to get credit for just dying is stupid:

Fight in X Zone: It seems completely reasonable to change this to require you to get credit for at least 1 kill. That's not that hard as you can still zerg someone down. It would prevent you from just running into the zone to die as fast as possible.

Dominate X Zone: Haven't played with this much, it seems more interesting and I would put the same requirement above and add the ability for credit via helping with node capture. Dying in the zone without accomplishing anything is dumb.

Attack / Defend X Keep: I don't know what to do with this one. Actually taking the keep is basically impossible with the level of zergs in each zone and the difficulty of keeps. If any realm can do it though it will be Hibs, which will just further benefit the biggest zerg. You could make this much much rarer and give much bigger rewards so it's like oh damn let's actually try to mobilize and do this instead of grumbling that this task currently takes forever and just involves suiciding into keep guards as a smallman or solo. Maybe rewards could be based on stages like first door down, second door down, keep lord killed. Try to balance this with realm population imbalance though, I don't want one realm to get a huge benefit because they're the only one that can flip keeps in the task active zone.

Questions:
1) It has been said that these tasks help get people up to RR5. Do these tasks give you less RPs as your RR increases or is it just that higher RRs require more RPs? I strongly hope that the first option is what has been implemented. Right now it's freakishly easily to get to RR3 before 50 and I am worried that already good high RR groups will just reap more and more benefits from these tasks. I'm all for making the path to RR5 a little quicker for your average casual player but I don't want to see RR8s next week.

Thank you for listening!

For humor on keep tasks (not mine): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3VR16JeiiA

Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:39 PM by relvinian

The relic issue and the 3 minute timer thing are not something i ever thought of.

I don't know or have any opinions except to say that if needed then whatever solution is best for the server overall should be put into place.

I trust the devs and players can continue to brainstorm on the issue until something is worked out.

It is one thing for a dev decision to be stupid and capricious and without purpose, and another for it to have a reason.

So far on this server my general impression of the devs is that they listen to the players and do things for the best of the server.

I'm sure they will continue to do both of those things.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:44 PM by Isavyr

1) Do nothing. Sometimes it's best to ignore a 10% problem in favor of the 90% success.

2) If something is done, I would first ask what is the minimum time acceptable to get back to the milegate at full strength? I refer to milegate because I don't see any reason to limit a realm's ability to throw themselves at an enemy camping their portal keep, which obviously has no tactical objective in RvR.

2.0-2.5 minute solution: Players respawn at portal keep with 10% hp, 0% mana, 0% endo.
3.0-3.5 minute solution: Split rez sickness into two components. The incurable component is for concentration, lasts 1.5m. Cannot fully buff groups of 3+ for that time.
4.0 minute+ solution: Additional incurable RvR rez sickness with applies snare and damage reduction for 3m.

only

For relics, I think the 3m hard timer from yesterday is acceptable--but only then. The above solutions may also resolve the issue--better to start conservatively and work up, imo.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 6:21 PM by noobino

Is it possible to enable a respawn timer on death when a relic is in transit? Say, 1 minute timer once you /release? Could you also do this within the zone the relic is being transported? Meaning that if you die in the zone where the relic is active you have a release penalty upon death, but this doesn't affect other zones where people are not engaged in the relic fight.

This way it doesn't affect other area's of PVP and only forces people actively engaged in the relic fight a short penalty so they can't lemming themselves. It keeps virtually everything the same except for those engaged in the relic fight. It would force a minimum 1 minute delay to respawn and the additional 1-2 minute to rebuff, etc.

Just my suggestion.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 6:21 PM by Wellzy

Dimir wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:37 PM
Fight in X Zone: It seems completely reasonable to change this to require you to get credit for at least 1 kill. That's not that hard as you can still zerg someone down. It would prevent you from just running into the zone to die as fast as possible.

I completely agree with this!

Task credit should only come from KILLING, not DYING.

This would also solve the annoying Grey player zerg running out to suicide.

Players will fight to stay alive because they know dieing will not give credit.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 6:44 PM by Moric

There needs to be a timer instituted. Whether it be in the form of a 2-3 minute rez illness or a 2-3 minute timer in which you cannot leave the pk (with a debuff visible so players know exactly how long they have until it wears off). The main difference between the two is one gives you the "option" to run out into the frontier heavily crippled while the other forces you to stay in prison with no "choice" being presented to the player. Now I am seeing a lot of players not understand why a timer like this should be instituted and what its purpose is.

In my mind, the timer should be instituted for one main reason and that reason being Game Flow:

Currently, players can instantly die/release/respawn and run back out to fight. If the fight occurs near or around the pk or their mile gate, there is no punishment for releasing and often times it is more advantageous to just release and come back as opposed to getting rezzed. This means that the enemy realm that is fighting in this area is at high risk of having to fight a continuous wave of the same people over and over again as these people can theoretically die and keep coming back without any real delay. This makes it difficult to take significant advantages for killing players.

The 2-3 minute delay gives the enemy some time after killing people to not have the same person/people you killed earlier in that fight roll up on you again for Round 2 before Round 1 is even over. I play a minstrel and multiple times I have died to a stealther near the pk/mg. They will kill me then get added on by another player. I am able to release and make it back out to the player that had just killed me, who is now engaged with another player, with enough time to add on the fight and get instant revenge. This should never be the case. Dying should mean something and killing a player should mean more then just a few rps. It should mean you assist your realm in keeping that player off of the battlefield for a few minutes to aid your realm in taking an advantage (keep, mg, relic, etc).

This is why 15 minute port times to enemy realms was a part of the game in the first place. It wasn't just to make you wait for the sake of waiting. It was so realms gained an advantage for wiping out other players and forcing them to release. The winning side could then translate that advantage to a keep take or successful defense with some downtime in between to repair doors and regroup, instead of just a constant stream of players that never ends.

In regards to a post about the timer punishing solos/smallmans... I am exclusively a solo/smallmanner. There is an inherent risk when running as a solo/smallman and that is being rolled by greater numbers. That is a part of the game. The action for smallman isn't great (at least during the times I have been on) in large part due to the task system/OF in my opinion. Having a timer doesn't change that. Sure, deaths sting a tiny bit more because you have to wait for 3 minutes at the pk. But I understand it's important for the overall flow of the game. The pros of having a timer far outweigh the con of me having to wait 3 minutes after each death and thus I can accept it.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 7:09 PM by Durandal

Hey, I totally understand! You guys want to have a genuine old school DAoC experience with the QoL of a modern game. This is very awesome and I have been having a blast!

I do remember the old DAoC very well. I remember when you had to ride a horse from Tir na mBeo, run from Cotswold, having to travel back to the border keep after a death just to be able to wait on the pad or run back out. Eventually they would add those bine stones to the border keeps, people were very happy about that!

I understand the conflict about this mechanic. A small delay was necessary to allow for a realm to be able to gain more ground if they were to wipe the enemy zerg. One of the biggest problems with live DAoC is that when your realm wipes 100+ battlegroup, there isn't really much time at all before they can be back in the area again, you'd be lucky if you took a single keep. In classic DAoC you would be able to gain at least that.

I think a good way to implement a balance for RvR while keeping other people happy would be to implement an uncurbable RvR rez sickness, the one that makes you weaker and snares your movement speed, although I would remove the restriction on buffer's conc so groups can go ahead and get buffed up.

Also, basing the PK egress timer on keeps held by the home realm might be a better idea. There definitely should be a way to see what the timer is without running into an invisible wall. However, if the home realm is making a considerable effort to defend, in such a way that in their middle zone (brief/jamt/penn) all 4 keeps are held at level 10, there probably should be an effect here on invading forces that are killed.

Conversely, you can also give invading forces a similar advantage, if they are able to get a level 10 keep in an enemy realm's middle zone. Remember the corpse summoner of the dead? Make the QoL a little better here. Players will get realm points within only a couple minutes of releasing to one rather then being locked out of gaining rp for half an hour. Adjust the range of being able to release to one making it much larger, maybe even allow players to release to them alive, without having to be rezzed, but having rvr rez sickness. You will not be able to use it if the keep is under attack, of course! Letting a realm get two level 10s in your middle zone could be devastating though. Invaders would have to right click the NPC though before they would be able to release to them rather then the PK, and this bind is reset if you zone.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 7:17 PM by Citian

"Currently, players can instantly die/release/respawn and run back out to fight. If the fight occurs near or around the pk or their mile gate, there is no punishment for releasing and often times it is more advantageous to just release and come back as opposed to getting rezzed. This means that the enemy realm that is fighting in this area is at high risk of having to fight a continuous wave of the same people over and over again as these people can theoretically die and keep coming back without any real delay. This makes it difficult to take significant advantages for killing players."

You speak of intrinsic risks but fail to see the one that is/should be present for enemies camping PKs/MGs. High traffic + short return distance = Extreme risk. Notice how this changes if either traffic rate decreases or distance rate increases? You happen to be playing a class that makes use of speed which lends itself towards shortening distance and so you increase risks for most people with poor placement.

Suggestion------------------------
There's no need for limits on exiting keeps in home or enemy zones, or a rez sickness. The only limitation needed is one meant to combat relic zerging and could be done easily by adjusting people's ability to leave their PK based negatively on a sliding scale based upon where the relic carrier is relative to a predefined X,Y "home point" e.g. a mile gate. If 3 minutes is a set point representing a 100% reduction in ability to leave PK and 0 seconds is normal, then 1 minute and 30 seconds is a 50% reduction at some 50% X,Y map that carrier crosses. What is left is to consider what is the rate that reduction is gained, 5%? 25%? I would assume whatever makes sense from an obvious geographical/cartography standpoint and is the least amount of work to implement.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 8:39 PM by defiasbandit

Move the realm tasks out of the Portal Zones. RvR in Gorge, Collory, and Breifine instead of mostly Emain. Move players out of Odin's and into Jamtland. Remove fight in Hadrians, emain, and odins.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 8:41 PM by defiasbandit

Move the realm tasks out of the Portal Zones. RvR in Gorge, Collory, and Breifine instead of mostly Emain. Move players out of Odin's and into Jamtland. Remove fight in Hadrians, emain, and odins.

Change all tasks to fight in Jamtland, Hadrians, and Breifine. Have multiple at the same time.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 8:57 PM by Pbuck

Tree wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:17 PM
Well judging by the other thread where people complained they were in RvR 1min and then had to stay 3min in portal keep, I think the way RvR respawn is set up it incourages RvR feeding, running mindlessly into the enemies in hopes of maybe grabbing a few RP yourself before you die.

In classic RvR or on Uthgard for instance, you always knew the game was on and there were time-intensive consequences for playing bad and dying early.

So I do hope there can be found some middle ground.

And how many people ended up playing in the end in both classic and uthgard ?only the hardcore 8 mans and organized zergs. I don't see why this is a problem for you specifically. You get more rps, your enemies get more rps, everyone is happy, why change it?If YOU feel bad about feeding rps, build a better group, don't force the others to do so as well.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:24 PM by Prometheus

I'll be honest with you, the incentive is very high to even lure us PvE'ers, you start adding invisible cages and making changes to tasks then without a doubt you will have your wish and you will find the frontiers much emptier, the rez sickness won't deter most of us especially if we're trying to participate in a task before it ends.

Fri 1 Feb 2019 10:38 PM by florin

Simple lore addition - the moving of relics draws so much power from the lords of the dead that the release timers are extended - the dead must wait their turn on the battlefield til Arwan, Odin or Lord leprechaun gathers enough strength to reap the souls of the dead. Can even extend this to reduce the strength of player rezzes to 10%

Sat 2 Feb 2019 6:44 AM by Menfany

Before you can start to "cure" the disease(streaming people out of the TK not worth any RP) you have to find the WHY.
Otherwise you will fail to solve the problem.

Whats the reason why people do this?
1. Tasks: Easy RP for everyone.. no matter what lvl.. no matter you die.
2. Enemy groups nearby the TK.. the short move out to get a little bit of RP out of the player farming group
3. Relics on the move.. the try to help on this event

Solutions?
to 1.: move the tasks away from the porterkeep zones.. longer way to walk means lesser people risk to get caught on the way.. and even they do.. they are worth RP for sure when they arrive.
If this leads to have way less player in RVR... you can adjust the tasks temporary back.. maybe to once each 4 cycles

to 2.: This probably needs no adjustment... if a group is stupid enough to stay between TK and MG they probably deserve to get overrun. The cry out about people not worth RP is a greedy one... because this groups are mostly the reason WHY the returning players died. So they GOT THEIR RP already.
A delayed stream of players just supports them even more.. because they can regen better after the first wave is down

to 3.: the 3min timer on this event sounds like an "fair" solution... even i would prefer a more "eventlike" solution..

IF the devs wants to end the stream no matter what... i would suggest a more "supportive solution" to the "punished players"... so maybe dont hostage them for 3min as a "solo player"(even they are grouped).. instead maybe keep the TK doors closed and open them every 2min for 30sec... so you end the "constant stream".. and give them a better chance to overrun the farming groups.. so they dont take that risk anymore

Sun 3 Feb 2019 8:08 PM by Jingo NZ

Keep the incentives and keep the fun for the casual player.

No timers.
RVR death gives task credit.
Move tasks away from milegate zones.
Build from the success of Dominate Breifine/Pennine/Jamtland tasks.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:35 AM by rubaduck

I thought the idea of a timer was good, but the problem was that it lasted 3 minutes. If it lasted 1.5 minutes it would be feasible because it would take some time to buff up and get everyone ready to move.

The problem with people being able to move instantly out in to RvR is the fact that they are worth no RP's. That means it creates a void of "Win/win" situations because dying again would not give more RP's but they'll be able to gain it. And I know, for some casual people they would see that as a "payback" kind of win but on a fundamental level that is an exploitable situation where losing gives you the upper edge in the long run. Yes, it is a very narrow window of time, but the fact that you can do it means that the losing side will eventually win regardless due to gaining infinite amounts of resources over and over again while the winning side runs out of resources.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:31 AM by Sepplord

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:35 AM
The problem with people being able to move instantly out in to RvR is the fact that they are worth no RP's. That means it creates a void of "Win/win" situations because dying again would not give more RP's but they'll be able to gain it. And I know, for some casual people they would see that as a "payback" kind of win but on a fundamental level that is an exploitable situation where losing gives you the upper edge in the long run. Yes, it is a very narrow window of time, but the fact that you can do it means that the losing side will eventually win regardless due to gaining infinite amounts of resources over and over again while the winning side runs out of resources.

BEST CASE: the people running in worth no RPs finally kill the campers and get RP. ONCE. That breaks them even and we all know even that doesn't happen.

Casuals (and a huge part of competitive players) don't care much about the RP they GIVE (and i agree with them). Claiming dying while being worthless feels like a Win to them is ridicolous. Yes, in the case of death they might think: "at least i wasn't worth RPs" but i would bet serious money that every single one of them would have rather won the fight.

In similar vein changing the task to require a succesfull kill will not make casuals fight harder to survive. The ones that simply suicide now will just not go at all. The ones wanting to fight will already fight. It's not like dying and releasing gives the same RP as winning the fight.

During relic movements the timer is important and makes sense, outside of that the only "problem" is that portkeep-farm-groups are butthurt that they can't farm directly in front of the portkeep, and if they move away maybe a different group might slip in and steal precious RP that BELONG TO THEM.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 1:28 PM by Tranb

Not sure about what I'll propose (I just arrived on the server, and i'm not aware of everything yet), but still :

- Give everyone a "self cure rez sick" spell / skill / item / whatever
- 20sc casting time => you can still go back quickly if solo, barely usable in combat situation
- 5mn cooldown => you prevent non stop rushing

Tweak the timers to your will

Tue 12 Mar 2019 10:20 PM by Sarcast

Again: forcing the plebs to do things they don't like (sitting around waiting in this case) creates an annoying time sink that potentially will sum up to doing ... something else.

Wed 13 Mar 2019 6:00 AM by Frieza

i think what ive found in most freeshards over my time, is when you try and force people into a collective tunnel, they normally find something else to do. Then overtime the game becomes less fun and they leave/ swap realms/ etc. If you want an example, look at how they removed BG's in a previous freeshard, people didnt go out to lvl 50 rvr, they just stopped playing (shown by the decline in numbers). The goal was simple, the idea was sound, but overall some people just didnt want to play like that (fair enough in my opinion!)

If you want to change the gamestyle to suit everyone, its just never going to happen, what we need to do is make the game the most enjoyable for the most amount of long term players as we can.

Therefore, trying to get people to stop using the rvr task a freebie, IMO is a bad idea, as they are doing this usually for a good reason to them i.e. RL commitments - they have kids, can only log in once every 5 mins or something to that affect. Therefore in that scenario, if you remove this incentive, they will just not log on, which means population decreases and then when prospective player looks at server levels, they will see a decline and potentially become less inclined to log on and see whats popin.

Keep in mind also, im not seeing one person in here complain "omg player x is RR9 and kicks my butt and he got all this just by being a freeloader afk rvr tasker", not one person is at a loss to this imo. Therefore who are they hurting? I think if anything theyre helping the population. I dont do this just as a disclosure, i have maybe 2 hours a night to play (kids) and im usually playing my lvl 50 or my farmer, as i want to feel like im playing (and yes really needing 1 cleric being in a 7man group to see the only 50 cleric i could get is afk at the pk is frustrating, but still, id rather see them, than not see them, if that makes sense).

I think if you really want the quick fix to this solution, in the last 5 minutes of the task, have all the keep guards disappear and allow the other realms to storm the castle as it were. Therefore youll get at least 1 kill for this afker, and they will still get points assuming they dont go LD.....it would be even more awesome if you could make your way as say a mid into hib mainland too. I think they did allow this in some cases in the past, but it was abused too much.

Thu 14 Mar 2019 9:32 AM by Lollie

Would it be possible to flag you as afk after say 5 minutes of inactivity and when that happens your taken out of the rp pool? and wouldn't gain anything when the task timers up.

Thu 14 Mar 2019 9:44 AM by Sepplord

why is this such an important issue for so many people...

seriously, someone purely afking tasks gets like 3k per hour....(less if above RR3)
that's over 20hours of AFK for RR3, who give's a ****?

And during those 20hours they are active 4times per hour for 1-3minutes too. So actually they did play for about 2hours of those 20.
A good grp will make the same RP in just 2hours of playing without idling the rest of the time.

A huge portion of the AFKs isn't permanently AFKing, they are AFking before they log. A change that nets you the reward even when logged out would probably reduce a lot of those percieved perma-leechers

Thu 14 Mar 2019 7:07 PM by defiasbandit

Teleporting to Keeps instead of Flags:

Invading realms will teleport to the 4 center keeps instead of the flags. The invading realms can now battle over the center zone keeps at the start of the task to secure teleports. This is more in the spirit of Dark Age of Camelot.

Invader Teleporting Only:

Allow only the invading realms to teleport to keeps. The defending realms will need to run from their border keeps. This will create more action in the Border Keep zones, and the action will flow from the portal zones towards the border keep zones instead of vice versa. It will spread the action into two more zones than just the center zone.

Objectives in Border Keep Zones:

Fri 15 Mar 2019 12:29 PM by moe_Jiller

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Mar 2019 7:07 PM
Teleporting to Keeps instead of Flags:

Invading realms will teleport to the 4 center keeps instead of the flags. The invading realms can now battle over the center zone keeps at the start of the task to secure teleports. This is more in the spirit of Dark Age of Camelot.

Invader Teleporting Only:
Allow only the invading realms to teleport to keeps. The defending realms will need to run from their border keeps. This will create more action in the Border Keep zones, and the action will flow from the portal zones towards the border keep zones instead of vice versa. It will spread the action into two more zones than just the center zone.

Objectives in Border Keep Zones:
Add tons of new objectives to the border keep zones, so that the defending realm can choose to complete those instead of running to the center zone. In order to compensate for removing teleporting for the defending realm, they will now have objectives in their two border keep zones, which they can complete and earn realm task score. The invading realms will now be able to contest objectives that are spread out across the two border keep zones. New capture points that scale down based on group size. Treasure chests hidden across the zones that have 1,000 soil,snow, or branches.

Here is a map of Forest Sauvage with New Objectives:

https://imgur.com/a/FWRqcmd

No

Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:18 AM by Durgrim

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Mar 2019 7:07 PM
Teleporting to Keeps instead of Flags:

Invading realms will teleport to the 4 center keeps instead of the flags. The invading realms can now battle over the center zone keeps at the start of the task to secure teleports. This is more in the spirit of Dark Age of Camelot.

Invader Teleporting Only:
Allow only the invading realms to teleport to keeps. The defending realms will need to run from their border keeps. This will create more action in the Border Keep zones, and the action will flow from the portal zones towards the border keep zones instead of vice versa. It will spread the action into two more zones than just the center zone.

Objectives in Border Keep Zones:
Add tons of new objectives to the border keep zones, so that the defending realm can choose to complete those instead of running to the center zone. In order to compensate for removing teleporting for the defending realm, they will now have objectives in their two border keep zones, which they can complete and earn realm task score. The invading realms will now be able to contest objectives that are spread out across the two border keep zones. New capture points that scale down based on group size. Treasure chests hidden across the zones that have 1,000 soil,snow, or branches.

Here is a map of Forest Sauvage with New Objectives:

https://imgur.com/a/FWRqcmd

Not approved.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 10:51 AM by

Uthred

No further plans on changing anything about the timer. Im going to close this thread.