Make XP Great Again

Started 19 Jan 2019
by ughsmash
in PvE
Hello Everyone,

I do think some of the quality of life leveling increases like the Phoenix Eggs when solo are a nice touch, but I feel something needs to be done to expand on this a bit more. Currently the leveling to 50, which lets face it is where the game begins on DAoC. Takes too long for most classes. Without buff bots or NPC buff bots, grinding and soloing is a nightmare. If you play an undesirable class it is hard to find a group, and that undesirable class is most likely bad solo as well.... I'm looking at you infiltrator.

I do not want to be doom and gloom and say do this or your server will die. I have however noticed a huge trend on these servers. A huge boom of population out of the gate and a STEEP decline because of punishing leveling. It repeats itself over and over and I don't get why it isn't picked up. Sure i50 is a drag because people don't have a reason to have character pride, but making it take so long to level burns people out or puts you behind the well oiled machine groups by so much you will never catch up.

It only takes a /server info to find out everyone is playing Anamists, Cabalists, and Spiritmasters so the leveling process is bearable. Other classes are delegated to suffer, or be lucky enough to be in a group with them so those main classes can do all the heavy lifting.

We all know DAoC isn't played because of its engaging dynamic PvE. It is a game where you get a group and AoE Nuke down packs of mobs with no variance until we can finally stop at max level. How many times does someone need to go through this motion before its enough? Increase the XP gain drastically. All the people who loved this game and want to give it another try have things to do now as I do not need to preach to you. It is beating a dead horse. It would be nice to hear something can be done, without compromising the integrity of the end game like i50 does. Either way I will slog through the grind, but make no mistake... that is what the leveling process is... an absolute grind.
Sat 19 Jan 2019 8:41 AM by thezerodivide
http://playphoenix.wiki/collection-tasks-albion/
http://playphoenix.wiki/collection-tasks-hibernia/
http://playphoenix.wiki/collection-tasks-midgard/

Doing the kill collections and turn-ins will drastically increase your leveling speed. You can turn in 10 per level, but only 10 of one kind total. (i.e. once you turn in 10 plated fiend hands, you can never turn in another plated fiend hand).

These turn-ins will give you the majority of a level if lower level, and up to 4.2 bubbles of xp at level 49. Between these, kill tasks, and phoenix eggs, you can level at a very brisk pace solo.
Sat 19 Jan 2019 9:06 AM by ughsmash
While I do understand these tasks are great. I cannot refute this! The wiki has a lot of wrong information. Tasks that do not match up with acceptable level and so on. Also it does not solve the issue with classes that are bad solo. I understand grouping solves this issue, but in my opinion, the XP is still too low for this. The majority of players who do not use the forum, probably the more casual are going to start dropping. I do not want to speak for anyone but myself, but it is just a pattern on all the Freeshards. Emain dies because people cannot make it through the PvE grind efficiently then the server dies.
Sat 19 Jan 2019 11:04 AM by Dogmans897
I mean... You have group bonus, a "class variety" bonus, zone bonuses for frontiers and dungeons, personal tasks which give amazing xp, phoenix eggs, turn-in items. Not to mention campfires to reduce downtime, and constant gear drops. I may have forgotten something even after listing all of those options/aids for leveling.

If you have new people in your realm just make sure they are aware of their options. If you see lowbies then just throwing a damage shield/damage add buff is a nice boost.
Sat 19 Jan 2019 1:28 PM by dansari
I sort of agree with the argument that the leveling process is still tough, but I also believe that the tools exist to make it manageable, especially at 40+. Significantly diversifying your kill tasks (if solo/non-bomb group) I think will drastically help.
Sat 19 Jan 2019 1:43 PM by Zansobar
I'd be happy if they went back to allowing you do do more than one pve task per level...once you get to where those don't level you a full level it is very bad. Also it appears eggs are giving much less xp (as a percent of level) than they did in early beta, probably because they increased the xp required to level at some point (since they added a bunch of rvr tasks and whatnot that give xp)...however I don't think it's palatable to do rvr tasks below high level 40s since if you run into any higher level enemies and it's a blood bath (and a lot of wasted time).
Sat 19 Jan 2019 2:05 PM by daocgod
The tasks for killing mobs really helps past 40 where I used to task all the way to 50 because of how abysmal it is. The triple quest in DF is great but I play Alb so its still rough.
Sat 19 Jan 2019 2:55 PM by Warlay
in beta was much better where you could give several xp items per level. i enjoyed it much more
Sat 19 Jan 2019 9:33 PM by Ralconn
I concur! Does anybody actually enjoying leveling in this game?

The collection tasks are a nice addition but it's still not enough imo.
Sat 19 Jan 2019 10:06 PM by Doiri
Ralconn wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 9:33 PM
I concur! Does anybody actually enjoying leveling in this game?


Yep.
Sat 19 Jan 2019 10:59 PM by ughsmash
dansari wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 1:28 PM
I sort of agree with the argument that the leveling process is still tough, but I also believe that the tools exist to make it manageable, especially at 40+. Significantly diversifying your kill tasks (if solo/non-bomb group) I think will drastically help.

The one problem with your point, is that manageable is not fun and what one class would consider to be manageable is a chore for another. I do think kill tasks are a step in the right direction, but I feel like XP requirements as a whole need to be cutback drastically.

If I am on my infiltrator, leveling solo is slow and no group wants me unless one of my friends is on a desirable class and the group bites the bullet and takes me to get the cabalist/wizard in their group.
Sun 20 Jan 2019 1:33 AM by Zansobar
ughsmash wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 10:59 PM
dansari wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 1:28 PM
I sort of agree with the argument that the leveling process is still tough, but I also believe that the tools exist to make it manageable, especially at 40+. Significantly diversifying your kill tasks (if solo/non-bomb group) I think will drastically help.

The one problem with your point, is that manageable is not fun and what one class would consider to be manageable is a chore for another. I do think kill tasks are a step in the right direction, but I feel like XP requirements as a whole need to be cutback drastically.

If I am on my infiltrator, leveling solo is slow and no group wants me unless one of my friends is on a desirable class and the group bites the bullet and takes me to get the cabalist/wizard in their group.

Yeah since they disabled being able to do more than one pve item kill task per level..the higher levels are extremely tedious to level with a class that is not desired in a group. I wish they would re-enable multiple turn ins per level at least at 35+ or even 40+.
Sun 20 Jan 2019 7:24 AM by King Zen
Exping solo on this server has been the nicest experience since I started playing DAoC 18 years ago. Having tasks to complete + task items to drop made the all process very enjoyable and quick enough. I was always able to have my primary stats capped, which means I could always easily kill yellows with little rest between fights, and completing tasks hunting for different types of mobs (humanoids, reptiles, fairies, giants, insects, plants, etc...) brought me to discover new places and new mobs in a game I thought I knew better then my own bedroom. I'm talking as a Ranger which found little if no group at all, apart for the last 4 levels thanks to my guild that had a spot in a farming group and helped rushing to the end.

Exping on this server works differently of any other. Try to understand what you are meant to do while leveling instead of blindly killing mobs as you were used to. I'm sure you'll get to 50 in little time even as a solo Infiltrator.
Sun 20 Jan 2019 11:23 AM by relvinian
XP tasks are nice.

Eggs are very minimal.

XP items were changed to be useable once per level.

Base xp requirments for each level were increased two separate times to attempt to slow down xp gain so it would be in the ideal range.

Both hibs and mids got to 50 in their ideal setups as reported by devs in 13 hours /played.

The double xp increase to level requirements really didn't stop the poopsockers.

I think something should be done to throw casuals a bone.
Sun 20 Jan 2019 11:34 AM by Chysil
I personally think that XP rates are just about perfect. You get lots of bonuses, lots of improved camps, and a generally fast pace. I had to solo most of 25-46 or so, and it wasn’t too bad.


One thing I might consider is something like the rest XP to aid more casual players. Especially a mechanic where the rest xp helps more when solo then when grouped.

I also wouldn’t be against making the eggs worth slightly more xp.

Let’s also not forget that the rog drops have made gearing a class while leveling very easy.

All in all though, xp is right around where I want it. Enough of a grind to build class pride, but not so much that too many people are burning out on the way to 50.
Sun 20 Jan 2019 2:28 PM by Morreion
I'm one of those odd guys who like DAoC PvE.
Sun 20 Jan 2019 10:00 PM by Zansobar
So upon exhaustive research (leveling) a solo Ranger (groups are not really option once you get up in levels) I've come to the conclusion that the "48 hours for a casual player to hit 50" goal of the Devs is only applicable for group characters. Solo this an extreme understatement. Yeah it would be great if everyone grouped up and could have fun just raking in the xp, but that isn't the reality of the situation for numerous classes in the game.

Soloing wasn't bad back in beta when you could turn in more than one pve item quest per level (10 item drops)...this only comes into play however once you hit high 30s when one 10 item turn in doesn't level you anymore. I have a solution that doesn't involve allowing multiple pve item 10 turn ins per level.

Instead what if:

For levels 40+ If you are solo and you get an xp item drop from a mob in your level range (range of the turn in encompasses your current level) then for each item drop up to 10 items you get a huge bonus in the form of number of Phoenix eggs. So this means you kill a PVE mob that drops an item for your turn in and when that item drops you also get Bonus Eggs for that kill. Now since Phoenix eggs give extremely small amount of xp as you get higher in level, this bonus would need to be extreme. I would say about 50 to 100 times what you get for a single mob kill (or put it in terms of number of turn in tokens you can get). But if this method was used and since Phoenix eggs are already non-tradeable to any character or alt, it would not impact the economy and would only benefit the player actually doing the work solo.

In this manner solo characters could still level at a good clip, while groupable classes already level at a good clip.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:05 AM by joyenergiser
I succumbed to giving up after seeing the xp grind, I know its better than it originally was but I simply dont have enough time to put into the grind just so I can RvR

Until Camelot unchained I guess.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:38 AM by Karqa
Ralconn wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 9:33 PM
I concur! Does anybody actually enjoying leveling in this game?

The collection tasks are a nice addition but it's still not enough imo.

Yes,I do and I am levelin my reaver solo most of the time,2 hours every day.So I am a dmn casual player. If you know how to level it , ıts dmn fast.
Collect exp items, bring em to merchant + give eggs+some kill task ( undead,tree,animal,bug,reptile etc...) = Ding

Good luck
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:53 AM by defiasbandit
Check this solo xp guide out. Part of the issue is that some collection quests only give like 3 bubbles of xp. Then it only lets you turn in one per level. It is fine if the collections quests are 1 per level, but they should give at least 5 bubbles of xp.

Perhaps the best solution is to make eggs give little bit more xp.

https://www.reddit.com/r/daoc/comments/agmg6o/phoenix_a_psa_to_solo_xpers/
Mon 21 Jan 2019 12:46 PM by Yzeron
I also agree. The leveling process is still far to slow. I also think you should leave the i50 gear merchants and just let people use that. It's a more even playing field and reduces the time it takes to RvR. Which is all anyone cares about in a free shard. If you like PvE...I think you're playing the wrong game. It seems to take roughly 2/3rds of the time it takes to get to lvl 50...in order to get your template setup and completed. Even longer if you're a crafter. The expense from 800-1000+ skill is ridiculous. Need more QoL.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 12:53 PM by Yzeron
I think you should seriously consider the xp and gear rates now. Or be like Uthgard devs and not listen to the people that play your game and it will die in months. Live does xp right. The only thing I dislike about Live, is all the gear you need to be competitive. It's complicated and creates a massive learning curve. Thus, making it harder for people to remain interested and its a detrament to new player retention. Live also has some of the absolute worst customer service of any company I've ever seen online. Which is why people leave and continue to leave. If they fixed this and made the game free to play...it would be better than Phoenix. But, right now...Phoenix is the new kid on the block and has the population advantage because of this. I digress. You're not DAoC. You're a nostalgic version of it. You don't need to be exactly the same. People are different now. Older, wiser, less free time for gaming...make all this faster and simpler still.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 1:13 PM by relvinian
I'm at 47.5 with 59 hours solo. This is very consistent with my beta test. Not all of my xp this time was solo but probably 95%.

What changed is that xp items don't give as much xp as they used to and they were nerfed. Getting .4 with xp items set. And can only use one per level.

You guys, I posted extensively my testing during beta after i-50. And I told you that the xp nerfs will hurt the server. The two increases in base xp required for each level which is above and beyond all other daoc in the world.

If you want sustained high population on your server you need to undo those nerfs.

People don't have time for this stuff. They can't always get a group. They don't know how to get to 50 in 13 hours like the poo sockers, but they do know that when they kill a yellow mob their xp barely maybe registers movement.

Please stop focusing on the 1% of elite hardcore players and focus on the casual and the average player. That is where population comes from.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 1:38 PM by WyandVoidbringer
I've been having fun, but my motivation to keep grinding is waning fast.

I see chat and RvR full of level 50s, meanwhile I'm poking along and just hit level 24. The only thing keeping me going is the XP items. If I hit a level where I can't find or turn any in, I'll probably stop playing. I just don't have the time or interest to grind out levels the old-school way, even though I'd love to take part in RvR.

I'm going to take a break from leveling and see if I can find any action in Thidranki. Maybe I'll just stick to the lowbie battlegrounds. Any PvP action is more fun than leveling.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 1:56 PM by Renork
Yzeron wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 12:53 PM
I think you should seriously consider the xp and gear rates now. Or be like Uthgard devs and not listen to the people that play your game and it will die in months. Live does xp right. The only thing I dislike about Live, is all the gear you need to be competitive. It's complicated and creates a massive learning curve. Thus, making it harder for people to remain interested and its a detrament to new player retention. Live also has some of the absolute worst customer service of any company I've ever seen online. Which is why people leave and continue to leave. If they fixed this and made the game free to play...it would be better than Phoenix. But, right now...Phoenix is the new kid on the block and has the population advantage because of this. I digress. You're not DAoC. You're a nostalgic version of it. You don't need to be exactly the same. People are different now. Older, wiser, less free time for gaming...make all this faster and simpler still.

100% agree with this. Live xp rates are phenomenal, but the gear required to be competitive creates a huge time sink/gap that leads to either buying plat from farmers or just quitting. I do think they should raise the xp rates here since ultimately casual players keep the population healthy, not the 1% diehards that can play 24/7.

That being said, I'm looking forward to the random poster that will undoubtedly quote me and say "I work 2 two jobs, have 10 kids and still made lv50 in 12 hours omg get g00d" :^)
Mon 21 Jan 2019 2:21 PM by relvinian
There was some discussion about realm balance in albion this morning.

Hibs and mids got 50s in 13 hours. This is my concern i suggested in beta that all relics and keeps be locked and df be opened for the first 2 weeks.

XP was part of this issue. Necros are part of the issue. So many people make necros to start their alts that they soloed a bunch. Hibs and mids grouped.

This is how it always is. You have to step back and look from the big picture distance. Lot of people call me a whiner but I just see patterns.

There is still plenty of time to fix everything as we are really early into the server. But time is of the essence.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 4:17 PM by SpoonyBard
Ralconn wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 9:33 PM
I concur! Does anybody actually enjoying leveling in this game?

The collection tasks are a nice addition but it's still not enough imo.

Yes, I immensely enjoy leveling in this game.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 4:20 PM by Afuldan
I have altitis. I love the level up sound.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 4:22 PM by SpoonyBard
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 10:00 PM
So upon exhaustive research (leveling) a solo Ranger (groups are not really option once you get up in levels) I've come to the conclusion that the "48 hours for a casual player to hit 50" goal of the Devs is only applicable for group characters. Solo this an extreme understatement. Yeah it would be great if everyone grouped up and could have fun just raking in the xp, but that isn't the reality of the situation for numerous classes in the game.

Soloing wasn't bad back in beta when you could turn in more than one pve item quest per level (10 item drops)...this only comes into play however once you hit high 30s when one 10 item turn in doesn't level you anymore. I have a solution that doesn't involve allowing multiple pve item 10 turn ins per level.

Instead what if:

For levels 40+ If you are solo and you get an xp item drop from a mob in your level range (range of the turn in encompasses your current level) then for each item drop up to 10 items you get a huge bonus in the form of number of Phoenix eggs. So this means you kill a PVE mob that drops an item for your turn in and when that item drops you also get Bonus Eggs for that kill. Now since Phoenix eggs give extremely small amount of xp as you get higher in level, this bonus would need to be extreme. I would say about 50 to 100 times what you get for a single mob kill (or put it in terms of number of turn in tokens you can get). But if this method was used and since Phoenix eggs are already non-tradeable to any character or alt, it would not impact the economy and would only benefit the player actually doing the work solo.

In this manner solo characters could still level at a good clip, while groupable classes already level at a good clip.

I've leveled my cabalist solo and I'm just at 40 and under 48 hours; If this wasn't my first time playing DAOC, I very much believe I could have hit 50 in under 48 hours played time.

I just don't think you're using XP Items properly with Phoenix Eggs. Farm mobs with the XP items and turn the items in at the beginning of a level; Always favor XP Items where you're near the bottom of the turn-in curve.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:04 PM by Ralconn
Really, what is the point of having a player spend 48 hours to truly start playing the game on a private server? I get it for a paid live server because the longer you play the game the more money you spend. What is the benefit here though?
For the people saying the PvE is fun and enjoyable I just can't understand that either. They gutted out basically every single quest. Additionally, collecting items (DF seals) is 100% worthless. The PvE right now is basically get in a group and grind or find random camps and collect task items. Neither of these really teach you to play your class or how to really play the game (RvR) due to you using a completely separate set of skills. If this game had all the old PvE content available I might understand but as it stands right now your only option is to grind. If that's what you enjoy out of MMOs there are far better options out there.
My concern is really that you are going to drive away a bunch of casual players with the current grind. In this thread alone multiple people have already admitted to this. A few months from now the ability to find groups will probably be non-existent unless you have a group of friends. It's already hard for some people and the server is hopping because it's brand new.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:12 PM by Ceen
Population is split in two, some knew the tricks and how to "abuse" the xp and got 50 in no time, while 3 k players are trying the old school way and are stuck.
Cant tell everyone in /whisper how to xp properly and even though I knew the tricks, some classes just dont get an invite to a petpull group and xp slowly ^^
Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:23 PM by Ralconn
I'd be curious to see the analytics around abandoned accounts. These would be accounts that haven't logged in for a week+ and have a character under level 50. I'd wager that there is already a good percentage and it will only get larger as time goes on.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:27 PM by defiasbandit
Took like 20x as long to level in original DAOC. The good old times remember?

There could be minor tweaks that could be made for solo xping, and I think that the collections tasks should be more clearly displayed on the website. The issue isn't so much that it is too slow overall, it is that a lot of players don't totally understand the most efficient ways to solo level.

There are two sides to the coin. There are a lot of players who think XPing here is too fast. I haved talked to some of them.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:40 PM by Ralconn
I definitely remember the grind of the original DAOC and had multiple level 50's. This game came out nearly 20 years ago and a lot of what made that acceptable then is no longer in play.
    Quests existed
    Every other MMO at the time had similar leveling length
    Very few similar games competing for players time
    It was in the best interest of the business to keep you engaged and playing for as long as possible
    Population levels made it so that this process wasn't exactly nightmarish
    Take a look at the live server player numbers. You can dismiss it saying balance etc. but that isn't the only reason for the low player count.

I'd imagine that the majority of DAOC players these days are interested in the game due to their history with it. 20 years is a long time and a lot of peoples lives have changed. Some people just don't have the time to commit to sitting in the same spot and killing the same mob for hours on end anymore. It would be nice to have a paid level 50 option for those of us with careers but I don't know if the server would run into legal problems if they started offering that.

I just don't think it's good for the long term health of this server to force people to grind out levels in such a boring fashion solely because we had to back in the day. I'd like to see this server be successful but I think we are steering people away from really playing the game (level 50 RvR) for seemingly no reason. We all stand to benefit from more people playing the game.

EDIT:
I'd also like to add that back in the day we actually had the option to PvP at lower levels letting us experience the real game. Every single battleground other than Thid is completely empty from my anecdotal experience. I wonder what the Thid player count is like right now too because I was in Thid day 1 or 2 of the server going live.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:51 PM by SpoonyBard
@Ralconn - It's an mmo, part of it is playing with other people and enjoying the company. You have to do some outwardly perspective thinking and realize not everyone likes to play like you or have the same frame of thought as you. Some people enjoy playing a game with other random people because it can be fun shenanigans. Maybe that's something you're losing sight of; if this isn't fun for you, maybe step back for a few days.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:55 PM by Ralconn
SpoonyBard wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:51 PM
@Ralconn - It's an mmo, part of it is playing with other people and enjoying the company. You have to do some outwardly perspective thinking and realize not everyone likes to play like you or have the same frame of thought as you. Some people enjoy playing a game with other random people because it can be fun shenanigans. Maybe that's something you're losing sight of; if this isn't fun for you, maybe step back for a few days.

I really don't understand your point because everything you said takes place in RvR. In fact, I would say more of this occurs within the PvP part of the game.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:04 PM by WyandVoidbringer
It's interesting that when hunting XP items I see very few other players grinding the same mobs. I pass plenty of solo players and groups grinding at the big, popular camps, but almost no one shows up at the XP item camps.

To be honest, if I can keep turning XP items in all the way to 50, I'll be content. It took about an hour and a half of grinding last night to get 10 XP items, but that netted me about 1.5 levels. That's about all the time I get to play in a day. So if that pace holds true, I'll hit 50 in three or four weeks.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:07 PM by SpoonyBard
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:04 PM
It's interesting that when hunting XP items I see very few other players grinding the same mobs. I pass plenty of solo players and groups grinding at the big, popular camps, but almost no one shows up at the XP item camps.

To be honest, if I can keep turning XP items in all the way to 50, I'll be content. It took about an hour and a half of grinding last night to get 10 XP items, but that netted me about 1.5 levels. That's about all the time I get to play in a day. So if that pace holds true, I'll hit 50 in three or four weeks.

If you've taken a look at the XP Item list on Phoenix, I would think there are enough items on the upper end (30-50) to make the solo leveling a smooth transition for people playing casually before they get into RvR or whatever they consider end game.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:09 PM by Zansobar
SpoonyBard wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 4:22 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 10:00 PM
So upon exhaustive research (leveling) a solo Ranger (groups are not really option once you get up in levels) I've come to the conclusion that the "48 hours for a casual player to hit 50" goal of the Devs is only applicable for group characters. Solo this an extreme understatement. Yeah it would be great if everyone grouped up and could have fun just raking in the xp, but that isn't the reality of the situation for numerous classes in the game.

Soloing wasn't bad back in beta when you could turn in more than one pve item quest per level (10 item drops)...this only comes into play however once you hit high 30s when one 10 item turn in doesn't level you anymore. I have a solution that doesn't involve allowing multiple pve item 10 turn ins per level.

Instead what if:

For levels 40+ If you are solo and you get an xp item drop from a mob in your level range (range of the turn in encompasses your current level) then for each item drop up to 10 items you get a huge bonus in the form of number of Phoenix eggs. So this means you kill a PVE mob that drops an item for your turn in and when that item drops you also get Bonus Eggs for that kill. Now since Phoenix eggs give extremely small amount of xp as you get higher in level, this bonus would need to be extreme. I would say about 50 to 100 times what you get for a single mob kill (or put it in terms of number of turn in tokens you can get). But if this method was used and since Phoenix eggs are already non-tradeable to any character or alt, it would not impact the economy and would only benefit the player actually doing the work solo.

In this manner solo characters could still level at a good clip, while groupable classes already level at a good clip.

I've leveled my cabalist solo and I'm just at 40 and under 48 hours; If this wasn't my first time playing DAOC, I very much believe I could have hit 50 in under 48 hours played time.

I just don't think you're using XP Items properly with Phoenix Eggs. Farm mobs with the XP items and turn the items in at the beginning of a level; Always favor XP Items where you're near the bottom of the turn-in curve.

You havent hit the slow levels yet. Up until around level 38 i could get a level by turning in the xp items (ones that are the highest i can get for my level) along with the xp from eggs and mob kills to get the item drops. In the 40s this no longet will be sufficient to level and reset the ability to do the next pve 10 item turnin. So then you have to just grind mobs and it gets worse at each level in the 40s. Ive resorted to try and do the mob kill tasks which only give a little xp too. Bottom line im level 45.5 and the item turn in give 5 bubs the rest i will need from grinding 100s if not 1000s of yellow mobs, and it will be worse at level 46, then worse more at 47 and so on.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:11 PM by WyandVoidbringer
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:09 PM
SpoonyBard wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 4:22 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 10:00 PM
So upon exhaustive research (leveling) a solo Ranger (groups are not really option once you get up in levels) I've come to the conclusion that the "48 hours for a casual player to hit 50" goal of the Devs is only applicable for group characters. Solo this an extreme understatement. Yeah it would be great if everyone grouped up and could have fun just raking in the xp, but that isn't the reality of the situation for numerous classes in the game.

Soloing wasn't bad back in beta when you could turn in more than one pve item quest per level (10 item drops)...this only comes into play however once you hit high 30s when one 10 item turn in doesn't level you anymore. I have a solution that doesn't involve allowing multiple pve item 10 turn ins per level.

Instead what if:

For levels 40+ If you are solo and you get an xp item drop from a mob in your level range (range of the turn in encompasses your current level) then for each item drop up to 10 items you get a huge bonus in the form of number of Phoenix eggs. So this means you kill a PVE mob that drops an item for your turn in and when that item drops you also get Bonus Eggs for that kill. Now since Phoenix eggs give extremely small amount of xp as you get higher in level, this bonus would need to be extreme. I would say about 50 to 100 times what you get for a single mob kill (or put it in terms of number of turn in tokens you can get). But if this method was used and since Phoenix eggs are already non-tradeable to any character or alt, it would not impact the economy and would only benefit the player actually doing the work solo.

In this manner solo characters could still level at a good clip, while groupable classes already level at a good clip.

I've leveled my cabalist solo and I'm just at 40 and under 48 hours; If this wasn't my first time playing DAOC, I very much believe I could have hit 50 in under 48 hours played time.

I just don't think you're using XP Items properly with Phoenix Eggs. Farm mobs with the XP items and turn the items in at the beginning of a level; Always favor XP Items where you're near the bottom of the turn-in curve.

You havent hit the slow levels yet. Up until around level 38 i could get a level by turning in the xp items (ones that are the highest i can get for my level) along with the xp from eggs and mob kills to get the item drops. In the 40s this no longet will be sufficient to level and reset the ability to do the next pve 10 item turnin. So then you have to just grind mobs and it gets worse at each level in the 40s. Ive resorted to try and do the mob kill tasks which only give a little xp too. Bottom line im level 45.5 and the item turn in give 5 bubs the rest i will need from grinding 100s if not 1000s of yellow mobs, and it will be worse at level 46, then worse more at 47 and so on.

Yeah, that's my worry. There's no way I'll get to 50 if I have to do that.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:13 PM by Zansobar
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:04 PM
It's interesting that when hunting XP items I see very few other players grinding the same mobs. I pass plenty of solo players and groups grinding at the big, popular camps, but almost no one shows up at the XP item camps.

To be honest, if I can keep turning XP items in all the way to 50, I'll be content. It took about an hour and a half of grinding last night to get 10 XP items, but that netted me about 1.5 levels. That's about all the time I get to play in a day. So if that pace holds true, I'll hit 50 in three or four weeks.

A single turn in wont get your level in the 40s and you are left with grinding the rest of the level at 0.01 if thst cp per mob.

In early beta you could do multiple turn ins per level now you cant and eventually you ate stuck grinding.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:18 PM by WyandVoidbringer
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:13 PM
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:04 PM
It's interesting that when hunting XP items I see very few other players grinding the same mobs. I pass plenty of solo players and groups grinding at the big, popular camps, but almost no one shows up at the XP item camps.

To be honest, if I can keep turning XP items in all the way to 50, I'll be content. It took about an hour and a half of grinding last night to get 10 XP items, but that netted me about 1.5 levels. That's about all the time I get to play in a day. So if that pace holds true, I'll hit 50 in three or four weeks.

A single turn in wont get your level in the 40s and you are left with grinding the rest of the level at 0.01 if thst cp per mob.

In early beta you could do multiple turn ins per level now you cant and eventually you ate stuck grinding.

I'm coming down off my nostalgia high.

I guess I'll hang out in Thidranki and wait to see if this gets addressed. If it doesn't, I doubt I'll continue past level 24.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:19 PM by Ralconn
I think that is one aspect some people are forgetting. The higher levels take exponentially more time than the lower levels to get through. So if you are going through levels pretty steadily through your 20s and 30s basically double or triple that time for your 40s.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:25 PM by SpoonyBard
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:13 PM
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:04 PM
It's interesting that when hunting XP items I see very few other players grinding the same mobs. I pass plenty of solo players and groups grinding at the big, popular camps, but almost no one shows up at the XP item camps.

To be honest, if I can keep turning XP items in all the way to 50, I'll be content. It took about an hour and a half of grinding last night to get 10 XP items, but that netted me about 1.5 levels. That's about all the time I get to play in a day. So if that pace holds true, I'll hit 50 in three or four weeks.

A single turn in wont get your level in the 40s and you are left with grinding the rest of the level at 0.01 if thst cp per mob.

In early beta you could do multiple turn ins per level now you cant and eventually you ate stuck grinding.

Thanks for the info!

At 39, I turned 10 Danaoin Fishing Flys and was granted 7-9 bubs of XP ( I can't recall the exact amount, I just know I'm at the cusp of 40 with little XP gain after hitting 39). With Phoenix eggs, that brings it a little closer, so I have very little XP needed to gain the next level. At that point, I'll just move to the next XP Item mob to farm. it's been a ~45 minute a level on average (Some levels have downtime with the way XP Items fall and mob farming).

I'm curious to see how that continues as I move on. I understand what the major consensus is on the XP Items, but I also understand that I'm typically an outlier in the way I approach efficiency on games.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:29 PM by relvinian
Here is alink to long xp discussion in beta

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3013
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:40 PM by SpoonyBard
Ralconn wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:19 PM
I think that is one aspect some people are forgetting. The higher levels take exponentially more time than the lower levels to get through. So if you are going through levels pretty steadily through your 20s and 30s basically double or triple that time for your 40s.

I'm glad you mentioned this. it's worth saying that many of the people playing are new to DAOC, not just this shard; on the characters I do group with, over half the group is new each time to DAOC. I think this is an important thing people are forgetting or not realizing. You have old time players bringing in tons of new players.

It's difficult to separate the viewpoint someone brings that's played it for many years from someone who has never played it. Many of the things you're speaking about aren't even on the radar for new people. It's good to keep in mind that when these posts are made, you're not only addressing Old Timey DAOC players, but also addressing people that are fresh to the game. The opinions that are expressed in a negative light on a brand new/fresh server can be off putting and could negatively contribute to it's population in the long run. We don't want an Elitist Jerks situation where new players feel they have no place on this game/shard.

With that in mind, I'm all for changes that can positively influence growth/stability in the player base during all aspects of the game (Leveling/RvR/Crafting/FASHION).
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:52 PM by Ralconn
I guess I just fail to see how a new player would enjoy the PvE in this game in comparison to any other MMO that is out there right now. From my experience, you only have two options right now to PvE:
1.) Do the tasks/collections which amounts to running around to a bunch of random places and killing mobs in, from my experience at least, boring locations. It would be cool to have these tasks take you to more interesting places like dungeons or the SI zones. Also if you weren't limited on the turn ins per level it could make this more worthwhile.
2.) Grind out levels with a PBAoE group and hope you are playing a desirable class. This basically amounts to sitting in one spot and killing mobs on repeat with little to no variety.

There are no quests in this game like classic DAoC to divert yourself with, these are really the only options. So you are basically forcing people into playing the most unappealing aspects of the game for hours on end to get to the interesting and unique aspects of what DAOC can bring to the table.

The hardcore players benefit from this leveling model as they can organize and power through the 1-49 content of the game. Meanwhile, the casuals will be left behind and probably quit for the most part.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 7:06 PM by SpoonyBard
And I guess that's the point I'm trying to make; You don't have to understand it for it to be true. The new players I'm grouping with are enjoying the camp farming, group play, and conversations. Nearly every group results in a friend list add to keep in touch for later group play. Personally, I don't enjoy the mindless questing that takes less thinking than dealing with mob camps and I think I'm not the only one that agrees with this. Many people are enjoying playing the game for the first time and the hype/excitement; let's let them enjoy it!

It's perfectly okay to not enjoy that aspect of the game or understand it, but there are people that do enjoy these aspects prior to 50 RvR so you can't downplay that.

Edit: I've encountered moments in DAOC with groups that I'll remember for years but I understand there are two sides of the coin. That's what I want most people to understand here.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 7:13 PM by Ralconn
Help me understand, what is enjoyable about PvE apart from interacting with other players? Since player interaction can occur at any point in an MMO I personally don't consider that a good reason to make people grind out for 40-60 hours to get to the part of the game they will enjoy.

EDIT:
Also, understand that you are providing anecdotal evidence from players that are probably largely still within the early (pre-30) portions of leveling which admittedly are not too bad. Who is to say they will maintain this enjoyment at level 45 where killing a yellow mob doesn't even visually register on your xp bar?
Mon 21 Jan 2019 8:55 PM by Bejarid
Ralconn wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:52 PM
1.) Do the tasks/collections which amounts to running around to a bunch of random places and killing mobs in, from my experience at least, boring locations. It would be cool to have these tasks take you to more interesting places like dungeons or the SI zones.

There is already a task for dungeons. And being in SI or Classic don't change for the others, go where you find a spot good for your class.

I don't really see what you are proposing to make things better here. Any practical proposition?

I just finish my second toon, and I have a 1d 22h played (with lot of afk you can guess). Unlike the first one it wasn't part of any premade group, I just played it for short session when I could, doing (unefficient) groups and task/collection. That's quite fast, honestly. I saw quite a lot of players whining about xp (ANY xp at all, they want a .ilvl 50 clearly) but I'm not sure I want these players at all too. We already have a good number of highly impatient players in RvR, making xp even shorter would make it worse. I don't think this will be profitable for this server.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 9:15 PM by Zansobar
Bejarid wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 8:55 PM
Ralconn wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:52 PM
1.) Do the tasks/collections which amounts to running around to a bunch of random places and killing mobs in, from my experience at least, boring locations. It would be cool to have these tasks take you to more interesting places like dungeons or the SI zones.

There is already a task for dungeons. And being in SI or Classic don't change for the others, go where you find a spot good for your class.

I don't really see what you are proposing to make things better here. Any practical proposition?

I just finish my second toon, and I have a 1d 22h played (with lot of afk you can guess). Unlike the first one it wasn't part of any premade group, I just played it for short session when I could, doing (unefficient) groups and task/collection. That's quite fast, honestly. I saw quite a lot of players whining about xp (ANY xp at all, they want a .ilvl 50 clearly) but I'm not sure I want these players at all too. We already have a good number of highly impatient players in RvR, making xp even shorter would make it worse. I don't think this will be profitable for this server.

What classes did you level?
Mon 21 Jan 2019 10:35 PM by Ralconn
Bejarid wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 8:55 PM
Ralconn wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:52 PM
1.) Do the tasks/collections which amounts to running around to a bunch of random places and killing mobs in, from my experience at least, boring locations. It would be cool to have these tasks take you to more interesting places like dungeons or the SI zones.

There is already a task for dungeons. And being in SI or Classic don't change for the others, go where you find a spot good for your class.

I don't really see what you are proposing to make things better here. Any practical proposition?

I just finish my second toon, and I have a 1d 22h played (with lot of afk you can guess). Unlike the first one it wasn't part of any premade group, I just played it for short session when I could, doing (unefficient) groups and task/collection. That's quite fast, honestly. I saw quite a lot of players whining about xp (ANY xp at all, they want a .ilvl 50 clearly) but I'm not sure I want these players at all too. We already have a good number of highly impatient players in RvR, making xp even shorter would make it worse. I don't think this will be profitable for this server.
I was more speaking about the collection bounties in terms of dungeons. As for suggestions, multiple people have proposed things in addition to myself so I'm not sure where that comment is coming from.

As for RvR players being impatient I really cant speak to that as I don't have a level 50 yet. Anybody at level 50 is clearly a dedicated individual though as this server hasn't even been up for a month and you yourself stated that you had to spend 46 hours to level one character to 50. If you take into account that this server has been up for ~8 days now that would require a person to have spent 5 or so hours a day. I don't think anybody actually doing RvR at this point is an impatient player based upon that statistic. Also, your statement that these players somehow tarnish your experience and shouldn't even be playing to begin with is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. I feel like the more players we have engaged in RvR the better the experience will be for all of us. You don't have to group with these people if you don't like their attitude for whatever reason.

Honestly, I'm just trying to be realistic and see this server thrive because I'd love to play me some DAOC. This server offers very little in terms of engaging PvE content and appears to me to be geared towards PvP players. Putting a 50 hour wall up in front of players before they are able to really play the game just doesn't make sense in the private server environment to me. The only option I can tell for a player to get into PvP without getting to 50 is to play Thid (in my experience all other BGs are a ghost town) and it is missing a lot of PvP content like siege weapons for example.
If you think this is a sustainable model to keep a player base that doesn't exist of solely diehard players you are certainly entitled to that opinion. I would say history doesn't really lend well to this idea though. Just go look at servers like Uthgard or live. We are in the middle of a player count surge right now because the server just launched but those numbers will die over time. I think to lose players over something simple like leveling up (before they even get to the real content) is sort of ridiculous though.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 10:45 PM by relvinian
I hit 50 today with 64 hours /played Someo f that was probably afk or standing around but yeah i played 5 hours a day or more i bet actively. Not everyone can do that and not everyone can exploit the game mechanics to get 50 in 13 hours. I want to play the game with casual players and adults with kids and jobs. More the better.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 12:14 AM by WyandVoidbringer
relvinian wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 10:45 PM
I hit 50 today with 64 hours /played Someo f that was probably afk or standing around but yeah i played 5 hours a day or more i bet actively. Not everyone can do that and not everyone can exploit the game mechanics to get 50 in 13 hours. I want to play the game with casual players and adults with kids and jobs. More the better.

As someone with both kids and a job, I want to play with you too!

I was working at McDonalds the last time I played DAoC. Now I'm an IT director and a father of two.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 12:42 AM by defiasbandit
Players need to remember that you can do kill tasks. Kill x Demons. Kill x Magical Monsters.. These all give a lot of experience and you can do multiple levels of them.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 1:43 AM by Quik
Here is my 2 cents...

I mentioned in beta that a game is about having fun and should never feel like a job. Too many games today make you grind to get simple things.

People want to play to have fun and enjoy themselves. I haven't had a lot of time to dedicate to DAoC due to family and job, but I did play Albion for awhile before deleting my toons and moving to Hib. I have started 4-5 toons just trying to get them to 20 to see who I want to have as my main, and what I loved about early phoenix beta is gone now. I loved the faster leveling and not NEEDING a group to lvl fast. In early beta when I played I could take make an Animist and farm xp items, then turn around and give those xp items to my other toons that different level as fast and make their life easier.

Now xp items that were incredible and made my altitis fun is gone. I used to take my animist and farm 20-30 of every xp item so I could cut the leveling time for alts in half, but now there is a limit to xp turnins. I also feel a big drop in how fast toons level, and this is in the fast stages, I am already dreading the 40-50 range.

The staff added eggs early to help soloers level, then increase the xp needed to lvl? They had a nice xp turnin system, then restrict the amount you can turn in?

To the Pheonix staff, you have the start to a VERY nice server with some VERY nice ideas, why would you handicap the new and casual player and boost the veterans/elitists/power gamers?

The power gamer will make a group of specific character classes and level super fast, and the social bonus will not stop them from having 2-3 bombers/2Anis/insert class here. The casual will just join the first group looking for his class, and if the group sucks, a decent person doesn't just ditch them they will keep playing with slow lvling. The power gamer is all about speed and if the group isn't up to par they just drop and find another.

I will play on the server for another couple weeks I'm sure, but if this is where you want the leveling scheme to be, I doubt I stay.

To those who say leveling is 10 times better then Uth, you're right, but it is still lousy compared to the perfect time during Pheonix Beta.

Again, the game should be fun and easy for all on the PvE side, then become more punishing in RvR. Right now I feel like I am at a second job trying to level unless I find the perfect group and I don't find that fun.

I don't want anything handed to me, I want to earn it myself, but I don't want to put myself through the grinder to get it. =(

I would love to hear why the staff felt people were leveling to fast in beta though, because that was when everyone absolutely loved everything about this server, now I hear more and more groaning while I play about everything taking longer.

Make the game fun! Don't make it a job!
Tue 22 Jan 2019 1:47 AM by defiasbandit
The personal kill tasks help a lot. if more players focused on those while soloing it would make them xp much faster.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:25 AM by Zansobar
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 12:42 AM
Players need to remember that you can do kill tasks. Kill x Demons. Kill x Magical Monsters.. These all give a lot of experience and you can do multiple levels of them.

Last level those tasks gave 0.55 of a bub xp, I would think they might give 0.5 of a bub xp this level (45). I hit 45 and did my 10 item turn in quest, and with those and the xp from the mob kills to get the items and from my egg turn ins I am at 45.5. This means I will need to do about 8 or so of these kill x tasks to get to 46. Which isn't horrible, however, then I will hit 46 and it will get worse - my 10 item turn in will probably only net me 46.3 or 46.4 and then I have to grind these kill x tasks to level to 47 and then repeat...it's a very big grind, even though it is still better than Uthgard, but it feels similar at these high levels.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:32 AM by Zansobar
Look, the real problem is not whether I can get a level 50 character in 100 hours played or less, the real problem is when someone levels a character to 50 then sees that class perform differently than they imagined in RvR and has to re-roll a class that better fits what they want to do at end game RvR...that's when that player looks at the long xp road ahead of them and decides to just quit the game than reroll. This is what happened in Uthgard. Players got to endgame after a torturous grind and realized that due to the 1.65 patch level if you weren't a certain class you weren't going to be successful in RvR. They thought about rerolling, but decided it wasn't worth the time commitment OR they did this in a realm that they then found out was not going to be competitive in RvR and wanted to reroll realms but couldn't put up with the leveling grind again.

So the real problem isn't how long it takes to get one class to 50, it's whether after doing that you would feel like doing it again, if you found out your first class decision wasn't correct.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:59 AM by defiasbandit
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:32 AM
Look, the real problem is not whether I can get a level 50 character in 100 hours played or less, the real problem is when someone levels a character to 50 then sees that class perform differently than they imagined in RvR and has to re-roll a class that better fits what they want to do at end game RvR...that's when that player looks at the long xp road ahead of them and decides to just quit the game than reroll. This is what happened in Uthgard. Players got to endgame after a torturous grind and realized that due to the 1.65 patch level if you weren't a certain class you weren't going to be successful in RvR. They thought about rerolling, but decided it wasn't worth the time commitment OR they did this in a realm that they then found out was not going to be competitive in RvR and wanted to reroll realms but couldn't put up with the leveling grind again.

So the real problem isn't how long it takes to get one class to 50, it's whether after doing that you would feel like doing it again, if you found out your first class decision wasn't correct.

We have custom classes here. Everything is basically viable. Hybrid classes like Thanes and Paladins have been heavily reworked. Is balance perfect? Of course not. Templating here is way faster than anything on Uthgard. Could the XP from Collection quests at 40to50 be increased a bit so the solo mob grind isn't so brutal? Sure.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:03 AM by Quik
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:32 AM
Look, the real problem is not whether I can get a level 50 character in 100 hours played or less, the real problem is when someone levels a character to 50 then sees that class perform differently than they imagined in RvR and has to re-roll a class that better fits what they want to do at end game RvR...that's when that player looks at the long xp road ahead of them and decides to just quit the game than reroll. This is what happened in Uthgard. Players got to endgame after a torturous grind and realized that due to the 1.65 patch level if you weren't a certain class you weren't going to be successful in RvR. They thought about rerolling, but decided it wasn't worth the time commitment OR they did this in a realm that they then found out was not going to be competitive in RvR and wanted to reroll realms but couldn't put up with the leveling grind again.

So the real problem isn't how long it takes to get one class to 50, it's whether after doing that you would feel like doing it again, if you found out your first class decision wasn't correct.

This is a great point also, although most classes are perfectly viable, maybe they just aren't what people were hoping for so now they want to play another type of toon. I don't think this xp pace will encourage a lot of people to go through it again.

Look, I have been a HUGE proponent to Pheonix in EVERY possible way before real life issues caused me to stop playing in beta. I recently returned for live and found it not even remotely the same leveling experience. XP items don't give remotely the same xp, eggs don't give nearly as much xp, and people are even MORE reliant on the perfect leveling group than they ever were in beta.

I have a feeling this won't change so I doubt I will play Pheonix for more than another month at most, but I hope they seriously look at this. Yes the leveling is a whole lot better than Uth, but not nearly as much as early Pheonix beta and that is sad.

My simple solution is to go back to what leveling was like in early beta because that was perfect IMHO.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:20 AM by defiasbandit
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:03 AM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:32 AM
Look, the real problem is not whether I can get a level 50 character in 100 hours played or less, the real problem is when someone levels a character to 50 then sees that class perform differently than they imagined in RvR and has to re-roll a class that better fits what they want to do at end game RvR...that's when that player looks at the long xp road ahead of them and decides to just quit the game than reroll. This is what happened in Uthgard. Players got to endgame after a torturous grind and realized that due to the 1.65 patch level if you weren't a certain class you weren't going to be successful in RvR. They thought about rerolling, but decided it wasn't worth the time commitment OR they did this in a realm that they then found out was not going to be competitive in RvR and wanted to reroll realms but couldn't put up with the leveling grind again.

So the real problem isn't how long it takes to get one class to 50, it's whether after doing that you would feel like doing it again, if you found out your first class decision wasn't correct.

This is a great point also, although most classes are perfectly viable, maybe they just aren't what people were hoping for so now they want to play another type of toon. I don't think this xp pace will encourage a lot of people to go through it again.

Look, I have been a HUGE proponent to Pheonix in EVERY possible way before real life issues caused me to stop playing in beta. I recently returned for live and found it not even remotely the same leveling experience. XP items don't give remotely the same xp, eggs don't give nearly as much xp, and people are even MORE reliant on the perfect leveling group than they ever were in beta.

I have a feeling this won't change so I doubt I will play Pheonix for more than another month at most, but I hope they seriously look at this. Yes the leveling is a whole lot better than Uth, but not nearly as much as early Pheonix beta and that is sad.

My simple solution is to go back to what leveling was like in early beta because that was perfect IMHO.


This issue before was players would use farming toons or gold to just buy all the XP task items. Then they would just use them all on their alt character and level to 50 in a matter of hours. That is how players would level new toons. That is not a good thing.

You want players in the leveling zones. You want zones to be populated. I do agree that some adjustments could be made, but the way it was had its drawbacks.

They should have made collection task items NODROP so you can't trade them and not reduced the XP gain from them as much. The current collection tasks could use a bump in XP gain since they are more limiting now.

They could add Solo Personal Tasks, so if you are solo mobs you get double the personal task XP.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:27 AM by Ralconn
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:20 AM
They should have made collection task items NODROP so you can't trade them and not reduced the XP gain from them as much. The current collection tasks could use a bump in XP gain since they are more limiting now.

This exactly. If the problem was that people would just use these items across characters disable the ability to trade them.

Months from now none of these zones will be populated anyways. Why turn away a group of people that want to play the game over the insistence that they play a stripped down version of the worst part of the game?
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:31 AM by ughsmash
You shouldn't want characters in leveling zones... You should want them in RvR zones. This is where players want to be. instead of a 50-70 hour leveling time get players to RvR in 20-30 hours. That way they can have fun and feed their nastalgia. keep the population up and roll alts.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:32 AM by Rockzor
I personally think that leveling a SINGLE character at the current XP rate is fine. Mind you, if that character is a group friendly character or one that can solo. That is only the case for a SINGLE character or maybe two. I currently have two of the ideal classes for this with a 44 sorc and a 34 cabalist but i'm feeling burnt out already. Yes I could have just stuck with the sorc and ONLY have the sorc to PVP at 50. I want other classes too though, hence a cabalist to help PL friends to also help PL me. So even more time taken for everyone to level a class just to level other classes. Does everyone really want to spend 48+ hours PER character just to be able to PVP? At the moment the only reliable way to PVP is Thid, and that isn't even active at all hours of the day. As an Alb and arguably the most difficult realm to level up in, I feel like a lot of people are going to burn out and there wont be action at 50 for long. Not to mention once people do start getting there and all the organized hardcore players that are already RR5 or higher give them no chance of a fight. The disparity between hardcore and casual players is where a game dies.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:51 AM by Zansobar
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:59 AM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:32 AM
Look, the real problem is not whether I can get a level 50 character in 100 hours played or less, the real problem is when someone levels a character to 50 then sees that class perform differently than they imagined in RvR and has to re-roll a class that better fits what they want to do at end game RvR...that's when that player looks at the long xp road ahead of them and decides to just quit the game than reroll. This is what happened in Uthgard. Players got to endgame after a torturous grind and realized that due to the 1.65 patch level if you weren't a certain class you weren't going to be successful in RvR. They thought about rerolling, but decided it wasn't worth the time commitment OR they did this in a realm that they then found out was not going to be competitive in RvR and wanted to reroll realms but couldn't put up with the leveling grind again.

So the real problem isn't how long it takes to get one class to 50, it's whether after doing that you would feel like doing it again, if you found out your first class decision wasn't correct.

We have custom classes here. Everything is basically viable. Hybrid classes like Thanes and Paladins have been heavily reworked. Is balance perfect? Of course not. Templating here is way faster than anything on Uthgard. Could the XP from Collection quests at 40to50 be increased a bit so the solo mob grind isn't so brutal? Sure.

I don't think you understand what I meant. I'm talking about someone either new to DAOC or new to how a class works here on Phoenix. They level that class with images of what they think they will be doing in RvR in their head, then when they get to RvR they realize it won't work the way they imagined, don't like the way they are forced to play that class, and decide they want to reroll a different class that does better perform the way they want to play in RvR. But due to the tedious xp they decide it isn't worth the grind and instead quit. It doesn't matter if a class is considered viable or not, it's whether the player actually enjoys the way that class plays in RvR which is usually wildly different than how that class plays in PvE.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:53 AM by defiasbandit
Rockzor wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:32 AM
I personally think that leveling a SINGLE character at the current XP rate is fine. Mind you, if that character is a group friendly character or one that can solo. That is only the case for a SINGLE character or maybe two. I currently have two of the ideal classes for this with a 44 sorc and a 34 cabalist but i'm feeling burnt out already. Yes I could have just stuck with the sorc and ONLY have the sorc to PVP at 50. I want other classes too though, hence a cabalist to help PL friends to also help PL me. So even more time taken for everyone to level a class just to level other classes. Does everyone really want to spend 48+ hours PER character just to be able to PVP? At the moment the only reliable way to PVP is Thid, and that isn't even active at all hours of the day. As an Alb and arguably the most difficult realm to level up in, I feel like a lot of people are going to burn out and there wont be action at 50 for long. Not to mention once people do start getting there and all the organized hardcore players that are already RR5 or higher give them no chance of a fight. The disparity between hardcore and casual players is where a game dies.

I agree with this Rockzor. I do believe the server is too group oriented both in PvE and RvR. The key to long term success is keeping the casuals happy, which often means catering towards the solo/small man crowd more. It is obvious to many that Albion has gotten the short end of the leveling stick. It is easy to catch up to RR5 using RvR Tasks however.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:56 AM by Zansobar
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:20 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:03 AM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:32 AM
Look, the real problem is not whether I can get a level 50 character in 100 hours played or less, the real problem is when someone levels a character to 50 then sees that class perform differently than they imagined in RvR and has to re-roll a class that better fits what they want to do at end game RvR...that's when that player looks at the long xp road ahead of them and decides to just quit the game than reroll. This is what happened in Uthgard. Players got to endgame after a torturous grind and realized that due to the 1.65 patch level if you weren't a certain class you weren't going to be successful in RvR. They thought about rerolling, but decided it wasn't worth the time commitment OR they did this in a realm that they then found out was not going to be competitive in RvR and wanted to reroll realms but couldn't put up with the leveling grind again.

So the real problem isn't how long it takes to get one class to 50, it's whether after doing that you would feel like doing it again, if you found out your first class decision wasn't correct.

This is a great point also, although most classes are perfectly viable, maybe they just aren't what people were hoping for so now they want to play another type of toon. I don't think this xp pace will encourage a lot of people to go through it again.

Look, I have been a HUGE proponent to Pheonix in EVERY possible way before real life issues caused me to stop playing in beta. I recently returned for live and found it not even remotely the same leveling experience. XP items don't give remotely the same xp, eggs don't give nearly as much xp, and people are even MORE reliant on the perfect leveling group than they ever were in beta.

I have a feeling this won't change so I doubt I will play Pheonix for more than another month at most, but I hope they seriously look at this. Yes the leveling is a whole lot better than Uth, but not nearly as much as early Pheonix beta and that is sad.

My simple solution is to go back to what leveling was like in early beta because that was perfect IMHO.


This issue before was players would use farming toons or gold to just buy all the XP task items. Then they would just use them all on their alt character and level to 50 in a matter of hours. That is how players would level new toons. That is not a good thing.

You want players in the leveling zones. You want zones to be populated. I do agree that some adjustments could be made, but the way it was had its drawbacks.

They should have made collection task items NODROP so you can't trade them and not reduced the XP gain from them as much. The current collection tasks could use a bump in XP gain since they are more limiting now.

They could add Solo Personal Tasks, so if you are solo mobs you get double the personal task XP.

I would be perfectly happy with the xp items being made NO DROP / NO TRADE to your other account toons...but since there is already a big market for these items I assume the Devs wanted that trading market to exist. An alternative option is to make it so when an xp item drops (and you are solo) you get a huge bonus drop of Phoenix eggs (only up to 10 items per quest) to compensate for the xp you will need to level. Since eggs are only solo and no trade you can't exploit this to level other toons or players. Also since this is a solo only adjustment you won't have groups (who can already level fast) exploiting this to level even faster.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:57 AM by defiasbandit
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:51 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:59 AM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:32 AM
Look, the real problem is not whether I can get a level 50 character in 100 hours played or less, the real problem is when someone levels a character to 50 then sees that class perform differently than they imagined in RvR and has to re-roll a class that better fits what they want to do at end game RvR...that's when that player looks at the long xp road ahead of them and decides to just quit the game than reroll. This is what happened in Uthgard. Players got to endgame after a torturous grind and realized that due to the 1.65 patch level if you weren't a certain class you weren't going to be successful in RvR. They thought about rerolling, but decided it wasn't worth the time commitment OR they did this in a realm that they then found out was not going to be competitive in RvR and wanted to reroll realms but couldn't put up with the leveling grind again.

So the real problem isn't how long it takes to get one class to 50, it's whether after doing that you would feel like doing it again, if you found out your first class decision wasn't correct.

We have custom classes here. Everything is basically viable. Hybrid classes like Thanes and Paladins have been heavily reworked. Is balance perfect? Of course not. Templating here is way faster than anything on Uthgard. Could the XP from Collection quests at 40to50 be increased a bit so the solo mob grind isn't so brutal? Sure.

I don't think you understand what I meant. I'm talking about someone either new to DAOC or new to how a class works here on Phoenix. They level that class with images of what they think they will be doing in RvR in their head, then when they get to RvR they realize it won't work the way they imagined, don't like the way they are forced to play that class, and decide they want to reroll a different class that does better perform the way they want to play in RvR. But due to the tedious xp they decide it isn't worth the grind and instead quit. It doesn't matter if a class is considered viable or not, it's whether the player actually enjoys the way that class plays in RvR which is usually wildly different than how that class plays in PvE.

I fully understand this perspective. Part of the issue is a lot of new players are not fully aware of the most efficient ways to level. Which collection tasks to farm, which personal tasks to focus on, the efficacy of switching between personal tasks and how often etc.. Also, a lot of the best mob camps and farming spots are unknown to most of the community.

As much as DAOC was designed as group based game that included 8 man groups, that was also part of its downfall. The team here has made QoL changes for smaller groups and solo players, but these playstyles could use more QoL in both PvE and PvP.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:59 AM by defiasbandit
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:56 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:20 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:03 AM
This is a great point also, although most classes are perfectly viable, maybe they just aren't what people were hoping for so now they want to play another type of toon. I don't think this xp pace will encourage a lot of people to go through it again.

Look, I have been a HUGE proponent to Pheonix in EVERY possible way before real life issues caused me to stop playing in beta. I recently returned for live and found it not even remotely the same leveling experience. XP items don't give remotely the same xp, eggs don't give nearly as much xp, and people are even MORE reliant on the perfect leveling group than they ever were in beta.

I have a feeling this won't change so I doubt I will play Pheonix for more than another month at most, but I hope they seriously look at this. Yes the leveling is a whole lot better than Uth, but not nearly as much as early Pheonix beta and that is sad.

My simple solution is to go back to what leveling was like in early beta because that was perfect IMHO.


This issue before was players would use farming toons or gold to just buy all the XP task items. Then they would just use them all on their alt character and level to 50 in a matter of hours. That is how players would level new toons. That is not a good thing.

You want players in the leveling zones. You want zones to be populated. I do agree that some adjustments could be made, but the way it was had its drawbacks.

They should have made collection task items NODROP so you can't trade them and not reduced the XP gain from them as much. The current collection tasks could use a bump in XP gain since they are more limiting now.

They could add Solo Personal Tasks, so if you are solo mobs you get double the personal task XP.

I would be perfectly happy with the xp items being made NO DROP / NO TRADE to your other account toons...but since there is already a big market for these items I assume the Devs wanted that trading market to exist. An alternative option is to make it so when an xp item drops (and you are solo) you get a huge bonus drop of Phoenix eggs (only up to 10 items per quest) to compensate for the xp you will need to level. Since eggs are only solo and no trade you can't exploit this to level other toons or players. Also since this is a solo only adjustment you won't have groups (who can already level fast) exploiting this to level even faster.

Well increasing Phoenix Egg drops at higher levels was discussed earlier in this topic. The fact that Phoenix eggs are useless after level 25 or so never made much sense to me. Look the reality ois that 8 man groups are reaching level 50 in 12 hours, while solo players are taking over 60. Yes, I do think thats potentially problematic. It's not so much the /played it takes, but rather players standing around grinding mobs for 1/1000th of a level of xp per mob kill.

Look when there are 8 man groups leveling to 50 in 12 hours then reach RR5 or 6 before.. and solo or new players taking even make it to 50.. well that is pretty cringe, but that is how hardcore 8mans roll.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 4:02 AM by Zansobar
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:57 AM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:51 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:59 AM
We have custom classes here. Everything is basically viable. Hybrid classes like Thanes and Paladins have been heavily reworked. Is balance perfect? Of course not. Templating here is way faster than anything on Uthgard. Could the XP from Collection quests at 40to50 be increased a bit so the solo mob grind isn't so brutal? Sure.

I don't think you understand what I meant. I'm talking about someone either new to DAOC or new to how a class works here on Phoenix. They level that class with images of what they think they will be doing in RvR in their head, then when they get to RvR they realize it won't work the way they imagined, don't like the way they are forced to play that class, and decide they want to reroll a different class that does better perform the way they want to play in RvR. But due to the tedious xp they decide it isn't worth the grind and instead quit. It doesn't matter if a class is considered viable or not, it's whether the player actually enjoys the way that class plays in RvR which is usually wildly different than how that class plays in PvE.

I fully understand this perspective. Part of the issue is a lot of new players are not fully aware of the most efficient ways to level. Which collection tasks to farm, which personal tasks to focus on, the efficacy of switching between personal tasks and how often etc.. Also, a lot of the best mob camps and farming spots are unknown to most of the community.

As much as DAOC was designed as group based game that included 8 man groups, that was also part of its downfall. The team here has made QoL changes for smaller groups and solo players, but these playstyles could use more QoL in both PvE and PvP.

Well I guess what I would say is I am aware of those options and have been using those leveling options as efficiently as possible, yet my Ranger is 45.5 and has over 2 days /played. He will probably have over 3 to 4 days /played by the time I hit 50 since I have to grind more and more xp each level now that isn't covered by xp item drops (yes I'm doing the kill 15 mobs but those are also giving very little xp and I also consider that grinding). The devs have a stated goal of a "casual" player taking 48 hours to level to 50 (2 days /played). I have not been playing like a casual player (got up at 2:30 am on launch day and played almost 18 hours that day, then all day on each weekend day), yet because I'm not a group class I am taking much longer to hit 50 than the goal for a casual player.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 4:06 AM by defiasbandit
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 4:02 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:57 AM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:51 AM
I don't think you understand what I meant. I'm talking about someone either new to DAOC or new to how a class works here on Phoenix. They level that class with images of what they think they will be doing in RvR in their head, then when they get to RvR they realize it won't work the way they imagined, don't like the way they are forced to play that class, and decide they want to reroll a different class that does better perform the way they want to play in RvR. But due to the tedious xp they decide it isn't worth the grind and instead quit. It doesn't matter if a class is considered viable or not, it's whether the player actually enjoys the way that class plays in RvR which is usually wildly different than how that class plays in PvE.

I fully understand this perspective. Part of the issue is a lot of new players are not fully aware of the most efficient ways to level. Which collection tasks to farm, which personal tasks to focus on, the efficacy of switching between personal tasks and how often etc.. Also, a lot of the best mob camps and farming spots are unknown to most of the community.

As much as DAOC was designed as group based game that included 8 man groups, that was also part of its downfall. The team here has made QoL changes for smaller groups and solo players, but these playstyles could use more QoL in both PvE and PvP.

Well I guess what I would say is I am aware of those options and have been using those leveling options as efficiently as possible, yet my Ranger is 45.5 and has over 2 days /played. He will probably have over 3 to 4 days /played by the time I hit 50 since I have to grind more and more xp each level now that isn't covered by xp item drops (yes I'm doing the kill 15 mobs but those are also giving very little xp and I also consider that grinding). The devs have a stated goal of a "casual" player taking 48 hours to level to 50 (2 days /played). I have not been playing like a casual player (got up at 2:30 am on launch day and played almost 18 hours that day, then all day on each weekend day), yet because I'm not a group class I am taking much longer to hit 50 than the goal for a casual player.

I think Phoenix Eggs should be more plentiful as you level up. You simply don't earn enough Phoenix eggs after level 20 or 25 to notice much of a difference when you turn them in. Having more Phoenix Eggs drop as you level might alleviate some of the issues solo players are complaining about. Increasing the Phoenix Egg amounts is probably the best solutions since they don't benefit grouped players at all.

Some players actually the leveling in DAOC, and others feel Phoenix is actually too fast. I've talked to many of such players. The early zone leveling is actually quite enjoyable, and something I look forward to on my alts.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 7:25 AM by Bejarid
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:25 AM
my 10 item turn in will probably only net me 46.3 or 46.4

Probably? Why do you say that? Items of your lvl always give you at least half a level. Even at lvl 49. Don't critic something you didn't tested.

Zansobar wrote: yet because I'm not a group class I am taking much longer to hit 50 than the goal for a casual player.
Stealth of my guild that didn't group even 1 time (hunter) have hit lvl 50 in 2d 2h /played. Again, with lot of afk (I know, we discuss quite a lot by /send), and as a first char (so he didn't know of the task efficiency at first, can't buy out collection item, etc.).

defiasbandit wrote: then reach RR5 or 6 before.. and solo or new players taking even make it to 50.. well that is pretty cringe, but that is how hardcore 8mans roll.
Abusing the task RvR system can give you 1,5k-3k each. And you don't need to kill anyting, just being around/die. Devs didn't lie when they say the first RRs will be very easy to get, even if you can't kill a thing, you don't need to try hard, just being present some hours in RvR zones.

defiasbandit wrote: I do believe the server is too group oriented both in PvE and RvR.
In RvR, this server is relatively agnostic. All the mecanics works both in solo, small man, group and zerk. I can't see a reason why this server encourage 8v8 in RvR at all... And in fact there a lot of solo (mins, skald, enchant...) running around, not counting the zerg that always jump on keeps at prime time (mainly EU for now, NA seems to prefer finishing their templates).

In PvE, this server sure buffed the group play (social bonus and members don't exactly divide xp), but they add even more thing for solo : Eggs, Tasks (you can't ask your group to follow YOU on YOUR task, so yeah, this crazy 2bb-0,5bb par 15 mobs is SOLO) and Collections (again, hard to ask your group to go kill 20 mobs from another spot, give you the item and wait you to give thme in...).

If it is oriented, it's in the solo way. In Classic (Uthgard) a solo 50 is like hundreds hours of /played duh. Here it's in tens hours. Do you want it to be in only hours? Like one level every 10 minutes?

DAoC isn't LoL nor CoD.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 8:27 AM by Tritri
Being a solo class is not an excuse here on phoenix.
Very recently we were arguing in a group to keep a nightshade afk in our gruop to keep the 5% xp bonus from class diversity

It's super easy to build a group, you just have to pull fingers out of your ass and send people.


It's true that it can be hard for new player, but they have to decide not to leave the starter guild and not join another new friendly guild to really have a hard time. There are plenty of people willing to explain what are task item, how to optimize task quest, build groups etc...


As for the difference of playstyle between pve and rvr for some classes, you can try out in thidranki to understand your class and you can (and really should) talk to people about your class to understand what they will be like.



So, if you want to build a group as a ranger :
-Start by finding a Bard, even rather low level, send all bards logged in to see if they are lfg (/who bard 40 45), if you can't find any, just try again a bit later, you'll eventually find one
-Once you have your bard, start advertising a melee xp group on lfg channel and start sending every melee logged on (a lot of them are soloing, don't forget about nightshade and valewalker)
-Once you have found at least one more dps, you can start xping, try to find a druid and complete the group with whatever and let's roll
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:01 AM by Ceen
Tritri wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 8:27 AM
Being a solo class is not an excuse here on phoenix.
Very recently we were arguing in a group to keep a nightshade afk in our gruop to keep the 5% xp bonus from class diversity

It's super easy to build a group, you just have to pull fingers out of your ass and send people.


It's true that it can be hard for new player, but they have to decide not to leave the starter guild and not join another new friendly guild to really have a hard time. There are plenty of people willing to explain what are task item, how to optimize task quest, build groups etc...


As for the difference of playstyle between pve and rvr for some classes, you can try out in thidranki to understand your class and you can (and really should) talk to people about your class to understand what they will be like.



So, if you want to build a group as a ranger :
-Start by finding a Bard, even rather low level, send all bards logged in to see if they are lfg (/who bard 40 45), if you can't find any, just try again a bit later, you'll eventually find one
-Once you have your bard, start advertising a melee xp group on lfg channel and start sending every melee logged on (a lot of them are soloing, don't forget about nightshade and valewalker)
-Once you have found at least one more dps, you can start xping, try to find a druid and complete the group with whatever and let's roll
Its super easy since you play hib animist gro. Join alb where the only classes getting grps on a regular basis are necro icer cleric friar
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:06 AM by defiasbandit
So I tried some Solo XPing earlier. You all have a very good point. They just need to make Phoenix Eggs viable at later levels. You literally get no XP for farming mobs solo. The eggs you earn from those kills should offset that. Makes no sense that you get 5x more xp 8manning a purple mob than you do soloing a yellow. This needs to be looked at. Solo leveling seems confusing for a new player to this server. Imagine you are turning in Phoenix Eggs, then all of a sudden they are worth basically no XP once u hit level 20.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:41 AM by relvinian
60 hours solo seems to be what it takes to get to 50.

13 hours seems to be what is possible in the perfect setup.

Neither of those seems quite right.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 1:05 PM by dansari
Rockzor wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:32 AM
I personally think that leveling a SINGLE character at the current XP rate is fine. Mind you, if that character is a group friendly character or one that can solo. That is only the case for a SINGLE character or maybe two. I currently have two of the ideal classes for this with a 44 sorc and a 34 cabalist but i'm feeling burnt out already. Yes I could have just stuck with the sorc and ONLY have the sorc to PVP at 50. I want other classes too though, hence a cabalist to help PL friends to also help PL me. So even more time taken for everyone to level a class just to level other classes. Does everyone really want to spend 48+ hours PER character just to be able to PVP? At the moment the only reliable way to PVP is Thid, and that isn't even active at all hours of the day. As an Alb and arguably the most difficult realm to level up in, I feel like a lot of people are going to burn out and there wont be action at 50 for long. Not to mention once people do start getting there and all the organized hardcore players that are already RR5 or higher give them no chance of a fight. The disparity between hardcore and casual players is where a game dies.

This is precisely my thought. I'm a returning player and started an RM. Thankfully that's a class that's relevant in bomb groups, which is how I grinded my way to 50 (being picked up as a low level pbt bot in guild groups). Started a Healer, thankfully relevant in bomb groups, which is how I'll grind my way to 50.. but the grind to 50 on a SB seems completely unreasonable.

Creating alts and being able to level them to 50 (all of them, not just those relevant in bomb groups), should be encouraged, not discouraged. Allowing reasonable entry to level 50 RVR on multiple toons is how you keep players. Turning the (alt) grind into a second job is how you turn casual players away.

Edit: so as a solution I would agree with other commenters: allow xp items to be turned in more than 10 per level or drastically increase the amount of xp you receive from eggs.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 1:16 PM by Tritri
@Ceen : I took the example of a melee group which can be built on any realm

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:06 AM
So I tried some Solo XPing earlier. You all have a very good point. They just need to make Phoenix Eggs viable at later levels. You literally get no XP for farming mobs solo. The eggs you earn from those kills should offset that. Makes no sense that you get 5x more xp 8manning a purple mob than you do soloing a yellow. This needs to be looked at. Solo leveling seems confusing for a new player to this server. Imagine you are turning in Phoenix Eggs, then all of a sudden they are worth basically no XP once u hit level 20.

I can understand that you wish to make the gap between solo play and group play thinner, but what the devs wanted is to encourage grouping together... which is a lot of what DAoC is about.


Bomb groups are indeed very strong, but they aren't all that exists
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:09 PM by relvinian
Tritri wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 1:16 PM
@Ceen : I took the example of a melee group which can be built on any realm

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:06 AM
So I tried some Solo XPing earlier. You all have a very good point. They just need to make Phoenix Eggs viable at later levels. You literally get no XP for farming mobs solo. The eggs you earn from those kills should offset that. Makes no sense that you get 5x more xp 8manning a purple mob than you do soloing a yellow. This needs to be looked at. Solo leveling seems confusing for a new player to this server. Imagine you are turning in Phoenix Eggs, then all of a sudden they are worth basically no XP once u hit level 20.

I can understand that you wish to make the gap between solo play and group play thinner, but what the devs wanted is to encourage grouping together... which is a lot of what DAoC is about.


Bomb groups are indeed very strong, but they aren't all that exists

No players no groups.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 2:50 PM by Sepplord
the biggest problem imo is that there seems to be almost no inbetween
There would be enough bombs by far to put 1-2SMs and 0-1RMs in every level grp 30+ at most times.

But since FOTM-grps are sucking up 3-4SMs other grps are stuck completey without AOE and then they are slow as fuck. Having one AoE would be fine and decent XP, but why would a bomb join a group where they are the only bomb, if they can just join a group where there are 3others already? I can't blame them, or the groups really. I was in one too and i rode that shit for as long as possible since it was extreme compared to what normal grps can do. My main is 50 now, but if he wasn't i wouldn't join anything besides a bombgrp...because why would i?


The only "fixes" would be limiting duplicate classes (very bad solution, hopefully won't happen) or somehow cap the %-Life monsters can take from one spelltype per second (also kind of absurd change).
I am bad at thinking about changes that would actually incentivize random-grouping, maybe remove the XP-Boni from classes completely when there are two of the same in a group. 5% per char are not deterring people from grouping more and more bombs.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:27 PM by Tavi
You guys are funny. Imo increasing xp rates comes with too many downsides.

-Everyone going for the rvr fotm classes, at least like that we will have some weak rvr classes roaming around(not true for every realm tho, looking at you midgard!)
-ppl didnt play DAoC for ages, even though its only PVE, they still have to relearn the basics of their character/movement
-37366372 stealthers, because why would one level a wizard?
-No character pride
-Leveling in FZ/DF would be devalued. I had great experiences fighting 8v2
-There is ppl who actually enjoy PVE, crafting etc
-Most dungeons would be empty because one outlevels them too fast, the nostalgia is just too good
-leveling brings people together
....etc

If you cant find a group, just build your own, I had no problem doing this. Also use the systems that are in place.

Just my 2c, lots of ppl dont agree here, I know that, you dont need to point it out...
And yes there is a lot of upsides to an increased xp rate, but this server is not having 3k players for being the next instant 50 server
Tue 22 Jan 2019 5:42 PM by defiasbandit
Tavi wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 3:27 PM
You guys are funny. Imo increasing xp rates comes with too many downsides.

-Everyone going for the rvr fotm classes, at least like that we will have some weak rvr classes roaming around(not true for every realm tho, looking at you midgard!)
-ppl didnt play DAoC for ages, even though its only PVE, they still have to relearn the basics of their character/movement
-37366372 stealthers, because why would one level a wizard?
-No character pride
-Leveling in FZ/DF would be devalued. I had great experiences fighting 8v2
-There is ppl who actually enjoy PVE, crafting etc
-Most dungeons would be empty because one outlevels them too fast, the nostalgia is just too good
-leveling brings people together
....etc

If you cant find a group, just build your own, I had no problem doing this. Also use the systems that are in place.

Just my 2c, lots of ppl dont agree here, I know that, you dont need to point it out...
And yes there is a lot of upsides to an increased xp rate, but this server is not having 3k players for being the next instant 50 server

Tavi I think that the XP rates aren't that bad solo. That isn't the issue that many are expressing. The issue is how confusing the system is for a new player. The collection tasks, the kill tasks, and then the way in which eggs work. Eggs stop mattering after level 20 or so and that is problematic. You have a system where a player will farm 10-15 yellow mobs and receive almost no XP from them at high levels. Sure, they should be focusing on completing the kill tasks instead of eggs at that point, but whats the point of eggs if they don't matter later on at all? Having a system where your XP isn't moving at all why you are killing mobs is never a good thing. The collection tasks could also be better disseminated. I know some players are putting them into spreadsheets which should help. The issue isn't so much the rate of solo XP, its the confusion that many players have about going about it.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 6:23 PM by Brokenstring
I think the XP rates are too fast with the XP items/tasks, which are pretty powerful. It took me about 3 /played days to get from 1-50 on my Sorcerer 99% solo, which is a good class to solo with, but not as good as some.

Utilize the XP items, utilize the tasks, utilize the phoenix eggs. There's plenty of resources available to make even solo more than viable on Phoenix. I solo'd to 50 on Phoenix twice as fast as great grouping could get you there on that other server.

Now, if you don't use all of the tools at your disposal and try to solo on Phoenix staying at the same spot, killing the same yellow mobs over and over, without utilizing any of the XP boosts, yeah it'll probably take a long time.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 6:30 PM by florin
You have one of the best solo character aside from enchanter - speed is huge on these tasks, pom, pet, mez. Try solo with a melee class ;(
Tue 22 Jan 2019 8:06 PM by Quik
Brokenstring wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 6:23 PM
I think the XP rates are too fast with the XP items/tasks, which are pretty powerful. It took me about 3 /played days to get from 1-50 on my Sorcerer 99% solo, which is a good class to solo with, but not as good as some.

Utilize the XP items, utilize the tasks, utilize the phoenix eggs. There's plenty of resources available to make even solo more than viable on Phoenix. I solo'd to 50 on Phoenix twice as fast as great grouping could get you there on that other server.

Now, if you don't use all of the tools at your disposal and try to solo on Phoenix staying at the same spot, killing the same yellow mobs over and over, without utilizing any of the XP boosts, yeah it'll probably take a long time.

Not as good as the big 3 but still top 5 in a lot of peoples minds. You may not want to use a class that can get his own tank, has good speed, and can cast the best resource regenerator for his class (PoM).

Yes people can take advantage of all of the xp items/tasks/etc, and if they do they can generally go from 1-50 in around 50-60 hours /played...approx. That is also straight playing, and not a lot of AFK as someone else mentioned. if people want to be completely honest lets just say 60 hours /played for your "average daoc" player who knows the game and knows the xp shortcuts. I am not taking into account new players who I am still teaching them about /train and had no idea xp items existed.

Now take into account a well made group can do 1-50 in 13 hours easy.

I understand we want people to group, but not everyone can dedicate time to grouping and they don't want to burden the group with afk's because of children or family. Why do you want to punish those players? Everyone says how easy it is but seriously, in this day and age getting lvl 50 in 60 hours /played is acutally on the high side.

Hell, in WoW my nephew can get max lvl of what...120 now? In like 30 hours /played.

Yes I know you all hate WoW and I haven't played it in ages, but it still knows that in order to keep people you need to make the game FUN. Stop acting like slower xp is fun for most people, when in reality in most MMO games now you can go from 1-max in 40 hours or less solo because they know the game is about making it fun to do what you want.

if you want slower xp then simply don't turn in xp items or don't turn in eggs or just kill blues. You can easily gimp your own lvling however you want, but why do people insist on restricting the xp rates for all the other players who have done this hundreds of times between live then Uth1 then Genesis then Uth2 then Pheonix Beta and now phoenix.

People are tired of wasting a lot of time leveling classes they may not even use much and wasting a week's worth of their life only to realize they will have to do it again if they want to try another class.

We all want the game to be active in all stages at all times but it ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. After a few months people will be mainly playing their high lvl toons in RvR and then lowbies will be duoing or soloing more and they will be punished because some people are afraid of more xp?!?!?!

Make is easier and fun to get to Thid or Cale or big boy RvR and let them enjoy it alone if they want or in groups if they want.

I'm not asking to get rid of the supersonic group leveling, I am just asking to stop punishing soloers.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 8:09 PM by ughsmash
Brokenstring wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 6:23 PM
I think the XP rates are too fast with the XP items/tasks, which are pretty powerful. It took me about 3 /played days to get from 1-50 on my Sorcerer 99% solo, which is a good class to solo with, but not as good as some.

Utilize the XP items, utilize the tasks, utilize the phoenix eggs. There's plenty of resources available to make even solo more than viable on Phoenix. I solo'd to 50 on Phoenix twice as fast as great grouping could get you there on that other server.

Now, if you don't use all of the tools at your disposal and try to solo on Phoenix staying at the same spot, killing the same yellow mobs over and over, without utilizing any of the XP boosts, yeah it'll probably take a long time.

So far the only people I see arguing the xp are good are classes that are welcomed in AoE Groups or people with a great solo class. The difference between perfect efficiency and someone who doesn't know every rule of what will help you on the server is so drastic it should be fixed. when people can get max level in 13 hours and an inefficient person can take up to 60-70 there is a problem.

You will not have a casual population this way. This is not a PvE game and there is a big iron gate in front of RvR if you aren't really efficient and know all the rules. I have wiki open all day and it still sucks to level. On my Infiltrator it is a nightmare. I move slow, I kill slow, and nobody wants me in an AoE group. Phoenix eggs are starting to become trivial, which is sad, because that is the one thing I had going for me solo.

A comparison between this server and Uthgard is pointless. You are comparing this server to an absolute failure of a server that lost 4/5 of its population in 3 months. Try comparing this to a successful freeshard. It is hard to do, because they all fail because EVERY TIME they get xp wrong. it is too punishing to people that don't hop between all the freeshards with an efficient group, or have all the time in the world to play.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 8:19 PM by defiasbandit
ughsmash wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 8:09 PM
Brokenstring wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 6:23 PM
I think the XP rates are too fast with the XP items/tasks, which are pretty powerful. It took me about 3 /played days to get from 1-50 on my Sorcerer 99% solo, which is a good class to solo with, but not as good as some.

Utilize the XP items, utilize the tasks, utilize the phoenix eggs. There's plenty of resources available to make even solo more than viable on Phoenix. I solo'd to 50 on Phoenix twice as fast as great grouping could get you there on that other server.

Now, if you don't use all of the tools at your disposal and try to solo on Phoenix staying at the same spot, killing the same yellow mobs over and over, without utilizing any of the XP boosts, yeah it'll probably take a long time.

So far the only people I see arguing the xp are good are classes that are welcomed in AoE Groups or people with a great solo class. The difference between perfect efficiency and someone who doesn't know every rule of what will help you on the server is so drastic it should be fixed. when people can get max level in 13 hours and an inefficient person can take up to 60-70 there is a problem.

You will not have a casual population this way. This is not a PvE game and there is a big iron gate in front of RvR if you aren't really efficient and know all the rules. I have wiki open all day and it still sucks to level. On my Infiltrator it is a nightmare. I move slow, I kill slow, and nobody wants me in an AoE group. Phoenix eggs are starting to become trivial, which is sad, because that is the one thing I had going for me solo.

A comparison between this server and Uthgard is pointless. You are comparing this server to an absolute failure of a server that lost 4/5 of its population in 3 months. Try comparing this to a successful freeshard. It is hard to do, because they all fail because EVERY TIME they get xp wrong. it is too punishing to people that don't hop between all the freeshards with an efficient group, or have all the time in the world to play.

Make Eggs Great Again!
Tue 22 Jan 2019 8:42 PM by Dominus
Warlay wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 2:55 PM
in beta was much better where you could give several xp items per level. i enjoyed it much more

Yes, 100 times yes to this. I was unaware this got nerfed and am scratching my head understanding why? The PvE "grind" is just that... a grind. Not fun.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:04 PM by defiasbandit
Dominus wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 8:42 PM
Warlay wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 2:55 PM
in beta was much better where you could give several xp items per level. i enjoyed it much more

Yes, 100 times yes to this. I was unaware this got nerfed and am scratching my head understanding why? The PvE "grind" is just that... a grind. Not fun.

Because you could farm or buy all the xp items then use them to power level alts super fast.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:10 PM by WyandVoidbringer
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:04 PM
Dominus wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 8:42 PM
Warlay wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 2:55 PM
in beta was much better where you could give several xp items per level. i enjoyed it much more

Yes, 100 times yes to this. I was unaware this got nerfed and am scratching my head understanding why? The PvE "grind" is just that... a grind. Not fun.

Because you could farm or buy all the xp items then use them to power level alts super fast.

Dang. That would have been fun!
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:12 PM by Brokenstring
Making leveling any easier would just be way too easy, IMO. That's my point. Uthgard was way too hard, but Phoenix reduced this by at least 50%, at LEAST (more like 75%). Why is this not sufficient? (It is, IMO.) Framing it as 'punishing' them is the wrong outlook and wrong attitude as well, imo. It's hyperbole. All classes aren't created equal.

Certain characters have a harder time leveling, that's just the way DAOC has always been. Should they get special considerations due to this? I don't know, but I'd say probably no. Grouping to PvE level should still be a thing, but really it isn't on Phoenix (at least not for me, mind).

An argument that frames removing all XP items, eggs, tasks and replacing them with more boosted group leveling I might be more inclined to agree with. Except that ruins solo leveling, which is what casuals and those with families and such want, so we are back full circle.

The point for me is that the leveling is just fine the way it is on Phoenix, and I've found it incredibly easy. Even if I was on another character (like a melee) it would still be pretty damn easy. You can solo to 50 on most classes in around 50-70 hours, that's pretty fast. On Uthgard it would have been 240 or more? Perhaps even 300 on some characters. Phoenix made it massively easier and faster. It's plenty easy as it is.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:29 PM by Brokenstring
After reading some more, I do agree that the eggs can be confusing. They are mostly useless after 20-25 or so. If I were to make a change as a dev, I would boost their XP value, while reducing slightly the XP value of tasks and XP items. And perhaps slightly boosting the XP of mobs per kill, although it's already like 50% more per mob kill than Uthgard.

That way a player can go kill whatever they want and have it be more efficient than it currently is, rather than trying to find/hunt down the task mobs (which can be hard to match to the tasks, some mobs are undead when they look like humanoids, etc).

So to sum it up from my perspective:

- Reduce the emphasis on XP items and tasks
- Increase the emphasis on phoenix eggs and solo/grouping bonuses

The net changes would end up being similar in terms of time /played, but much easier and clearer for new players to solo most efficiently.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:44 PM by Quik
Brokenstring wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:29 PM
After reading some more, I do agree that the eggs can be confusing. They are mostly useless after 20-25 or so. If I were to make a change as a dev, I would boost their XP value, while reducing slightly the XP value of tasks and XP items. And perhaps slightly boosting the XP of mobs per kill, although it's already like 50% more per mob kill than Uthgard.

That way a player can go kill whatever they want and have it be more efficient than it currently is, rather than trying to find/hunt down the task mobs (which can be hard to match to the tasks, some mobs are undead when they look like humanoids, etc).

So to sum it up from my perspective:

- Reduce the emphasis on XP items and tasks
- Increase the emphasis on phoenix eggs and solo/grouping bonuses

The net changes would end up being similar in terms of time /played, but much easier and clearer for new players to solo most efficiently.

This is exactly how I would do it. Give the eggs a boost. It has zero effect on group leveling but it would make a HUGE difference for soloers.

I personally wouldn't touch xp items but either way doesn't matter much to me really.

With eggs increased you have 2 viable ways to level efficiently - group or solo and you can make this fun for everyone, not just those that get the "perfect" group.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:48 PM by Dominus
then make XP items BOP but not restrict the turn-in per level. This would prevent PL but not hurt the person actually farming them and leveling. Above 40ish, you're getting half a level from XP items and have to grind out balance.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:51 PM by Jingo NZ
The primary areas that could use a boost are slow-killing-no-speed solo players, and groups with non-optimal classes and compositions.

You could get some major QOL changes for these problem areas by:
1) reducing the con limit for kill tasks by 1 colour (for group, small group and solo play)
2) Reduce the exp penalty for more members in a group even further (reduce it further by 50% or more)

1)
• This will make it faster for classes with a slow kill speed to complete the exp tasks since they can target easier mobs
• It will make it more feasible for groups and small groups to hunt the kill tasks (which I believe is rarely done right now)
• It will make it more feasible for groups and small groups to hunt the level appropriate xp items (which I believe is rarely done right now)
• I will produce additional good exp locations where you can find mobs of different types that con blue/yellow/orange within a short running distance allowing you to progress multiple kill tasks in a short gaming session
• It will have minimal effect on optimal power levelling groups since these would likely be targeting multiple high level mobs to maximise kill rate X cap exp

2)
• This will improve grouping with non-optimal classes and composition since you might only be able to efficiently kill multiple yellow and orange, but now you’ll get a better % of your exp cap per kill
• It would now make sense for 2 or 3 soloers in the same location to group up to improve kill speed while still getting a high % of cap exp per kill
• It will have minimal effect on optimal power levelling groups since these would be getting cap exp on every kill anyway
Tue 22 Jan 2019 10:26 PM by Zansobar
Dominus wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:48 PM
then make XP items BOP but not restrict the turn-in per level. This would prevent PL but not hurt the person actually farming them and leveling. Above 40ish, you're getting half a level from XP items and have to grind out balance.

I agree, but I think they don't want to make items that are currently a huge market item bind on pickup. My solution is to give solo players a huge bonus to egg drops when the first 10 of the pve items drop for the solo player.

A easier way to reduce the grind would be to make the turn in limit be 2 quests (20 items) from 40 to 45 and 3 quests per level from 46 to 50. But this has the problem of allowing people to buy their way to 50 on alts. I'd prefer the egg route since that guarantees that you had to actually kill the mob yourself.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 10:28 PM by Zansobar
Jingo NZ wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:51 PM
The primary areas that could use a boost are slow-killing-no-speed solo players, and groups with non-optimal classes and compositions.

You could get some major QOL changes for these problem areas by:
1) reducing the con limit for kill tasks by 1 colour (for group, small group and solo play)
2) Reduce the exp penalty for more members in a group even further (reduce it further by 50% or more)

1)
• This will make it faster for classes with a slow kill speed to complete the exp tasks since they can target easier mobs
• It will make it more feasible for groups and small groups to hunt the kill tasks (which I believe is rarely done right now)
• It will make it more feasible for groups and small groups to hunt the level appropriate xp items (which I believe is rarely done right now)
• I will produce additional good exp locations where you can find mobs of different types that con blue/yellow/orange within a short running distance allowing you to progress multiple kill tasks in a short gaming session
• It will have minimal effect on optimal power levelling groups since these would likely be targeting multiple high level mobs to maximise kill rate X cap exp

2)
• This will improve grouping with non-optimal classes and composition since you might only be able to efficiently kill multiple yellow and orange, but now you’ll get a better % of your exp cap per kill
• It would now make sense for 2 or 3 soloers in the same location to group up to improve kill speed while still getting a high % of cap exp per kill
• It will have minimal effect on optimal power levelling groups since these would be getting cap exp on every kill anyway

Since the main classes that are not groupable are the rogue classes (archers and assassins) you could increase the group xp bonus from 5% for a unique class to 25% for a unique rogue class. That way the max social xp bonus would go from +40% for an 8 person group with 8 unique classes now to +80% if you had 8 unique classes but also had one assassin and one archer in the group. Still I'm not sure if that is enough of an xp bonus to get spots in a group.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 5:56 AM by Karqa
IMO, It shouldn't be easier than this. Create an infil / scout and expect to hit 50 in 2 days.This is uber easy. For 10 days I have played 23 hours with my reaver & Its lvl 32. 35 hours with my cabby and Its 42. I am mostly solo with both toons. I think leveling is easy enough.

Thank you for reading,
Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:58 AM by Tree
From what Ive experienced personally there is no change needed at the moment, espacially not as an increase in XP.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 7:00 AM by rubaduck
Lets just face this first thing first: XP on Phoenix is fast. I work a job with shifts, started one day ago and I am already at 33 with 500 spellcrafting. So XP doesn't take a very long if you just engage with the other players. If you started on a shade, then sorry you chose the class that is technically the hardest class to xp up, atleast early on. But here's the kicker as a solo player you have the eggs, which alone speeds up the process by a whole lot. You might not agree, but you can compare it to another server, and see how that goes. You choosing to xp alone is your choice, and you are not forced to do it. Changing XP however has proved to dissolve xp groups throughout the Beta, it is a choice done through a lot of try and error.

Secondly, the reason behind XP items not being allowed to be delivered multiple times each level is that any xp group after level 34 just dissolves. It is a desert zone because everyone is farming xp items. But wait, YOU can't because everyone else is farming them, to sell them which leads to the third problem with changing it around.

Thirdly, the XP items becomes an economy that wipes out crafting, entirely. You make more money selling xp items then crafting so why craft?

Everyone here that played beta knows why they changed it, and the ones still yelling about it now, never had a single good argument for not changing it back them and are just hyping up the problem to give it more voices while the devs know what will happen.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 8:54 AM by ughsmash
So many of the people for keeping the EXP the same are only looking at the surface level of the problem. One very clear underlying issue with the difference in leveling speed between optimized groups and less desirable leveling characters is not just the time played.

Example:
Optimized group hitting 50 in 12-15 hours played vs Casual taking 50-70 hours.

If you look at time played it isn't insanely bad... to the people arguing for leaving EXP where it is. If you dig deeper you see the real issue... These groups that pounded levels to 50 in 12-15 hours were doing it on day one and day two. The people taking 50-70 hours are taking weeks.

This is a freeshard not an MMO that can be trusted to be up for years. I feel freeshards need to get their players into the main content of the game faster or risk failing. You are going to see those people taking so long to level dropping like flies after their first character if it isn't what they expected. Also when they finally get to the end game content they are going to be so severely outgunned it is going to be way less fun than if people were on a level playing field.

This is exacerbated in Albion, because we are behind at the start with less players and less 50s and Phoenix didn't lock Relic keeps and keep df unlocked for longer, so now on Albion there is less leveling options and are characters are weaker. How could you not see this happening if you are going by average 48 hours... (which is a lie) for a player to hit 50?

Hopefully there is something done.

PS People arguing about economy being ruined form EXP items have to catch up to the notion that Economy is ruined more by people not playing the game at all because of frustration.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 12:40 PM by WyandVoidbringer
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 7:00 AM
Lets just face this first thing first: XP on Phoenix is fast. I work a job with shifts, started one day ago and I am already at 33 with 500 spellcrafting. So XP doesn't take a very long if you just engage with the other players. If you started on a shade, then sorry you chose the class that is technically the hardest class to xp up, atleast early on. But here's the kicker as a solo player you have the eggs, which alone speeds up the process by a whole lot. You might not agree, but you can compare it to another server, and see how that goes. You choosing to xp alone is your choice, and you are not forced to do it. Changing XP however has proved to dissolve xp groups throughout the Beta, it is a choice done through a lot of try and error.

Secondly, the reason behind XP items not being allowed to be delivered multiple times each level is that any xp group after level 34 just dissolves. It is a desert zone because everyone is farming xp items. But wait, YOU can't because everyone else is farming them, to sell them which leads to the third problem with changing it around.

Thirdly, the XP items becomes an economy that wipes out crafting, entirely. You make more money selling xp items then crafting so why craft?

Everyone here that played beta knows why they changed it, and the ones still yelling about it now, never had a single good argument for not changing it back them and are just hyping up the problem to give it more voices while the devs know what will happen.

I would love to group for XP. I really would. I miss grouping and grinding for hours just like the old days. But when I get less than two hours to play a day, finding a group, filling it out, and then getting to where we're going to grind can take more than half of my play session. So when I login, I make a beeline for whatever I can XP solo to make the most of my limited playtime. I need to be able to login and start killing immediately, which is why I've gravitated to ARPGs like Diablo 3 and Path of Exile.

Perhaps the simple truth is that I can't play games like this anymore, even though I'd like to. Even Phoenix is tuned for a different sort of player.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 12:47 PM by Vkejai
Change ir so Collection xp items can be handed in when ready not grinding half a level so you can hand the next one in. This is really making xping miserable especially for the unwanted pve classes.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:18 PM by rubaduck
ughsmash wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 8:54 AM
So many of the people for keeping the EXP the same are only looking at the surface level of the problem. One very clear underlying issue with the difference in leveling speed between optimized groups and less desirable leveling characters is not just the time played.

Example:
Optimized group hitting 50 in 12-15 hours played vs Casual taking 50-70 hours.

If you look at time played it isn't insanely bad... to the people arguing for leaving EXP where it is. If you dig deeper you see the real issue... These groups that pounded levels to 50 in 12-15 hours were doing it on day one and day two. The people taking 50-70 hours are taking weeks.

This is a freeshard not an MMO that can be trusted to be up for years. I feel freeshards need to get their players into the main content of the game faster or risk failing. You are going to see those people taking so long to level dropping like flies after their first character if it isn't what they expected. Also when they finally get to the end game content they are going to be so severely outgunned it is going to be way less fun than if people were on a level playing field.

This is exacerbated in Albion, because we are behind at the start with less players and less 50s and Phoenix didn't lock Relic keeps and keep df unlocked for longer, so now on Albion there is less leveling options and are characters are weaker. How could you not see this happening if you are going by average 48 hours... (which is a lie) for a player to hit 50?

Hopefully there is something done.

PS People arguing about economy being ruined form EXP items have to catch up to the notion that Economy is ruined more by people not playing the game at all because of frustration.

There is a lot to address here, because I see your point but again the flaw is that people who are already organized played on beta and knows the ins and outs. It's not that we are faster because we play more in general but because we had a 5 month headstart to learn the kinks of the server.

The argument "This is a freeshard, so why let it act as a MMO with paid sub" is not a very good angle, because it's about the fulfillment and feeling accomplishment that needs to be there to make it interesting. i50 will only result in a bunch of players never playing the game, it is proven over and over and over again. The RR argument is valid, but the game needs someone to be ahead to have a stretch. I see it as a positive sign, and I did on beta too.

In beta Hibernia was underpop in the beginning. This changes all the time.

I am not talking about economy as in gold handed to other players. I will be very vocal about economy because it drives people in terms of supply and demand. Let me tell you what really kills the game: time spent doing pointless stuff. If I have to make every crafting available just to get my template done, the game is toast. And that is the problem xp items provide. It did on a macro scale and a micro scale on beta, so it would apply here as well. People take the easy way out, always. If they had no xp items restrictions I wouldn't even make a crafter, would be no point in doing so.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:21 PM by Sepplord
Secondly, the reason behind XP items not being allowed to be delivered multiple times each level is that any xp group after level 34 just dissolves. It is a desert zone because everyone is farming xp items. But wait, YOU can't because everyone else is farming them, to sell them which leads to the third problem with changing it around.

Thirdly, the XP items becomes an economy that wipes out crafting, entirely. You make more money selling xp items then crafting so why craft?

I agree with the sentiment, being able to simply buy your way to 50 isn't what i would want. But the arguments made don't make sense to me at all.
So there are no XP groups, because everyone farms XP-items. But I can't because everyone else already is. So everyone else can, but just not me. Huh? And if a lot can't then why can't i group with them?

And everyone is farming XP Items, but their prices are high? So high that even when noone crafts at all, crafting profits are still lower than the XP items farm reward? Uhh, sorry, that's not how an economy works. Not at all.

Also more levelled chars = higher demand for crafting

EDIT:
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:18 PM
If I have to make every crafting available just to get my template done, the game is toast. And that is the problem xp items provide. It did on a macro scale and a micro scale on beta, so it would apply here as well.

Could you elaborate that point please, i have a really hard time making the connection between XP-Items and the crafting economy.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:37 PM by rubaduck
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:21 PM
Secondly, the reason behind XP items not being allowed to be delivered multiple times each level is that any xp group after level 34 just dissolves. It is a desert zone because everyone is farming xp items. But wait, YOU can't because everyone else is farming them, to sell them which leads to the third problem with changing it around.

Thirdly, the XP items becomes an economy that wipes out crafting, entirely. You make more money selling xp items then crafting so why craft?

I agree with the sentiment, being able to simply buy your way to 50 isn't what i would want. But the arguments made don't make sense to me at all.
So there are no XP groups, because everyone farms XP-items. But I can't because everyone else already is. So everyone else can, but just not me. Huh? And if a lot can't then why can't i group with them?

And everyone is farming XP Items, but their prices are high? So high that even when noone crafts at all, crafting profits are still lower than the XP items farm reward? Uhh, sorry, that's not how an economy works. Not at all.

Also more levelled chars = higher demand for crafting

EDIT:
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:18 PM
If I have to make every crafting available just to get my template done, the game is toast. And that is the problem xp items provide. It did on a macro scale and a micro scale on beta, so it would apply here as well.

Could you elaborate that point please, i have a really hard time making the connection between XP-Items and the crafting economy.

People don't share spots, they just farm every spot leaving you there to fend of stragglers. Trust me if this is a problem with 300 people per realm, it will DEF be a problem with 1000 people per realm. It spun totally out of control and they had to make limitations. Everyone made animists just to stand there and afk farm for example. No xp group after 35 means everyone did xp items. Xp items were over saturated on both the marked and the farmspot, and everyone were more or less soloing them to make the farming go even quicker.

Crafting wasn't done in the beginning by people, a 99 qual armor pieces went for absolutely nothing to the point it was not even worth it to bother about it. If I made 99 qual scale, I would only marginally make a profit, so boots went for 65 gold, costs 45 to make and this went on for a long while. You could easily make 3-750 gold per 10 stack of xp item, which took you 10-15 minutes to farm. Nothing in the game can compete with that in terms of how much time you put in to it and the requirements you had to achieve it. I know how economy in the game works, but the limitation is there for a darn good reason and it is partly being able to just buy yourself up from 35-50 and as well put more pressure on the market.

I can elaborate it, I had to be armorcrafting, tailoring and spellcrafting to get my template done. No one was offering it because everyone was doing xp item farms. You do not want an economy like that.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 2:04 PM by Sepplord
That doesn't make sense to me at all. (Not calling you a liar, small economies can act weird and against "common rules" from time to time)

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:37 PM
Xp items were over saturated on both the marked and the farmspot
Then prices can't be high. Farming something that is over saturated on the market can impossibly be the best farm in the game. Where did the gold come from to pay for the items?

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:37 PM
Crafting wasn't done in the beginning by people, a 99 qual armor pieces went for absolutely nothing
If noone did crafting, why were prices LOW?

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:37 PM
I had to be armorcrafting
Why? a few lines up you claimed that Armor was very cheap, so cheap that crafting it was not worth it

Mybe someone else can give their theory of why it happened like it happened. My guess would be the very small population. XP-Items can't be the cause, because the gold to pay for them has to come from somewhere. Were there any huge gold-surges into the economy early in beta to let people easily test stuff? But then crafted items should have also been expensive *confused*
Wed 23 Jan 2019 2:24 PM by Kaziera
Ppl want mp items, so 99% ist unwanted Trash.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 2:52 PM by Brokenstring
I think rubaduck is onto something about economy. Xp items are too powerful, imo. That power should be distributed more towards eggs instead. It simplifies the leveling process for newer players, and also doesn't allow you to sell them and make huge profits. I don't think XP items should even be tradable, tbh. They should be account bound, and either keep them or sell them to the vendors.

It is slightly affecting the crafting economy (XP items), but the speed of crafting itself is also affecting the crafting based economy. I know right now I'm just going to be making all of my armor (which I've never done before for my lvl 50 main, as both tailor and AC are 800+ on my main with minimal effort), and the only thing I *may* look for is an SCer, but based on how long it'll take to farm some essential items for my template, I may have the time and money to just build up an LGM SCer as well.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 3:51 PM by Geek
Don't let people trade XP items. Fixes that problem at least. You can't trade eggs, and those are for XP boosting too.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 5:01 PM by chryso
LOL, if you think the xp is too slow here go play the other server for a while and then come back.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 5:59 PM by Takii
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 2:24 PM
Ppl want mp items, so 99% ist unwanted Trash.

No they don't. You absolutely do not need any MP items with the RoG gear here. Capping a template is trivial.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:03 PM by dansari
chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 5:01 PM
LOL, if you think the xp is too slow here go play the other server for a while and then come back.

The leveling speed isn't being compared to Uthgard, it's being compared between classes and grouped/solo. People talk about realm pride and character pride and accomplishing the grind to 50, but that is a very old school way of thinking. I would much rather have 8 alts ready to fill in rvr than have two 50s I grinded my way on. Modern games do not adhere to this "character pride" mentality, especially low cost or free games: Overwatch, League of Legends, Heroes of the Storm, Diablo 3, PoE, all have methods of login --> fun. As was mentioned earlier, even WoW understands that the target market doesn't enjoy grind when it comes to leveling. People grind for other stuff (mounts, cosmetics, whatever), but max level isn't cosmetic, it's a barrier to entry.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:18 PM by PingGuy
I read a post somewhere--that I may be remembering incorrectly--that indicated that there was a difference in Phoenix Egg returns below and above level 25. The difference was substantial. I have to say I'm a little worried about how things will slow down at 25. I hit 21 or 22 last night (too much wine, no remember), and things have been ok so far. I have had a decent balance of grouping and soloing along the way, but 18+ was all solo. Between the personal tasks, some extended camping, XP turn-ins, and Phoenix Eggs, I've never felt a major slump in my advancement.

Phoenix Eggs are already feeling a bit weak at this point. I'm glad they are there, but I wish they did a little more. It's hard to recommend anything without having experienced the ride all the way to 50. Still I think it's safe to say that if Phoenix Eggs gave 10-20% more exp, and retained their 1-24 return rate all the way to 50, that would be a good change.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:38 PM by defiasbandit
dansari wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:03 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 5:01 PM
LOL, if you think the xp is too slow here go play the other server for a while and then come back.

The leveling speed isn't being compared to Uthgard, it's being compared between classes and grouped/solo. People talk about realm pride and character pride and accomplishing the grind to 50, but that is a very old school way of thinking. I would much rather have 8 alts ready to fill in rvr than have two 50s I grinded my way on. Modern games do not adhere to this "character pride" mentality, especially low cost or free games: Overwatch, League of Legends, Heroes of the Storm, Diablo 3, PoE, all have methods of login --> fun. As was mentioned earlier, even WoW understands that the target market doesn't enjoy grind when it comes to leveling. People grind for other stuff (mounts, cosmetics, whatever), but max level isn't cosmetic, it's a barrier to entry.

Classic WoW is coming back.
Thu 24 Jan 2019 1:37 AM by Ralconn
Using classic WoW as an example, that game has tons of PvE content. Additionally, much of the game is geared towards PvE. Phoenix meanwhile is a trimmed down version of the original PvE experience. Ultimately, 1-49 PvE isn't even the main focus of DAOC.

I just don't understand peoples insistence that people grind out through the worst part of the game just because they had to do it back in 2001. All the PvE content is going to be a ghost town probably 6 months from now anyways. I'm already noticing dead zones and we aren't even a month in... Casuals keep a game popular and to ignore their plight is to ignore the health of the server and game as a whole.

I'm not advocating that everybody be given everything for free but don't make people spend so much time plowing through a bunch of boring content to get to the real game. There is plenty of grinding to do once you hit 50 that can separate the hardcore players from casuals anyways.
Thu 24 Jan 2019 3:44 AM by Tree
I really dont get it. You can play any character to 50 within a few days, if anything XP is way too fast and easy on Phoenix. How could you possibly ask for an even faster XP? Its insane. Asking for more is asking for i50.
Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:11 AM by thezerodivide
My wishlist? If you have a 50, /level20 becomes available to your account. Then fill in the BG gaps so you can level to 20 then battlegrounds all the way to 50. You get faster leveling after the initial investment, and more competent people in RvR.
Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:58 AM by Pbuck
To the people complaining about phoenix leveling speederhaps an mmo is not suited for your current needs, seeing as it is extremely easy and fast to level to 50. Also rvr seems very accessible to everyone , including soloers and casuals. Overall Im getting positive vibes for the server, it looks like its made for more than just the 8-man specialists , and barring unforseen circumstances it should last for quite some time.
Thu 24 Jan 2019 6:34 AM by Tyton
Pbuck wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:58 AM
To the people complaining about phoenix leveling speederhaps an mmo is not suited for your current needs, seeing as it is extremely easy and fast to level to 50. Also rvr seems very accessible to everyone , including soloers and casuals. Overall Im getting positive vibes for the server, it looks like its made for more than just the 8-man specialists , and barring unforseen circumstances it should last for quite some time.

I'd have to concur.

I'm sure we'll run into things down the road - but the staff here is pretty proactive.

/level 20 is definitely NOT needed. You can get a level 20 in just a few hours in most cases--that will just make 1-20 areas desolate for any lowbies as well. With XP items, Phoenix eggs, easier crafting macros (alchemy, etc), I'd argue that things are even too easy. But I understand we need to bridge the gap between casuals and hardcores so I'm cool with the way it is now. This server was born to suit all types of DAoC players and as far as semi-classic DAoC (or whatever you want to call it) it's pretty darn accessible to casuals as compared to the game's original state and the other freeshard. Grouped players should almost always level faster than solo--I'm not sure why it would make sense the other way around.

And @the WoW stuff... the current state of Live WoW is closer to an arcade game than an MMO IMHO. Classic WoW is making a comeback for sure because a lot of modern MMOs just don't give you the same feeling about character investment as the old games (Vanilla WoW, EQ, DAoC, etc).

T
Thu 24 Jan 2019 9:20 AM by Tritri
I understand the xp for unwanted class is harder, a boost to phoenix egg would be interesting (I farmed a whole level solo and the eggs gave me less than 10% of the next level, so yeah it's not that much)

But I would like to point out that you shouldn't take the optimized released group that went 50 in 13hours as example, the situation was very different :

They were alone on the server, no need to fight for the spot
They had a clear road map to follow
DF was open for everyone, with a huge bonus xp (RvR bonus, dungeon bonus, task bonus) and was safe since they were alone
ZF was the same, huge xp bonus, task mobs + task item, rvr bonus, and safe


We did an xp 'rush' with my guild at the start, on Monday morning we were 45-46 for about 36hours of plays. And DF was still open + rvr spot were rather safe

Today, I'd wager that a good xp group, like 8 man reroll session with their rvr comp', can reach 50 in 40 hours, but it would be very hard to reach 50 in less than 20hours, because you'll most likely not be able to use the best camps (DF is crowded and closed sometimes, ZF is dangerous)
Thu 24 Jan 2019 9:29 AM by Sepplord
The first few days also had a realmtask bonus of 40-50% while now it is down to just a few single digit %
Thu 24 Jan 2019 5:15 PM by Sarcast
Yesterday I also felt like I will never survive the PVE grind to 50 to see RvR.
I'd thought I was used to this grind, as I startet in Beta of live and played 3-4 years, then I started at Uthgard (they dont liked me and deleted my little wealth).
Now I started again, liked it and now feel stuck with 3 toons in the 20'ish.

Also the community feels sometime very focused ... and not casual friendly.
What RvR and server community will u have if the so called "Pros" finished grinding theyr optimal Equipment to start RvR ... if there is no zerg (like Uthgard) casuals most likely will not participate.
But to early to say that, still I have a feeling.

Give me a heads up please ^^
Thu 24 Jan 2019 5:42 PM by daocgod
If anything this server is one of the biggest zerg servers I've seen. There is 0 action outside of the task zone and in the task zone its just 16slots+
Thu 24 Jan 2019 5:48 PM by Dominus
that happened in Beta as well when the RvR tasks were implemented. On a positive note, it does make those zones where the tasks are very busy, which on a lower pop server makes RvR more fun.
Thu 24 Jan 2019 6:13 PM by defiasbandit
What about doubling the xp bonus in the frontiers for solo.
Thu 24 Jan 2019 11:23 PM by Vahln
Thought I'd toss my point of view and experiences in here, as a brand new player to DAoC (essentially, I played for like 2 weeks in middle school 15 years ago) and a hardcore MMO vet.

While the xp overall is far from terrible I do think solo grinding could use a substantial boost. A few people have mentioned it already and it's a great point that the reroll factor should be considered. I'll use myself as an example.

My main is currently a level 46 Eldritch. I rolled it as part of a caster group that myself and 2 friends decided on when we got established on finally picking a realm. Leveling on the Eldritch has been a breeze, as you can imagine. I think the longest I've ever had to wait for a group was 10 minutes. I've literally never killed a mob solo on that character. I'm not sure on my /played time but it has been easy to maintain a comfortable pace, I can generally guarantee myself a couple of levels every night when I have a couple of hours to play.

I made a Ranger to mess around on for solo / small man play and just to get a better feel for other game mechanics and I sort of fell in love with it. I'd love to main it. Unfortunately, leveling it in comparison to the Eldritch is a huge mood killer. He's level 24, all of my play time on him has been spent spamming LFG chat while I grind for xp items and I've gotten a total of 2 groups. Both of which admitted that inviting me was more out of pity than anything else. While I'll happily take that pity xp, I think that's a pretty good indicator of community perception. People have little interest in bringing any kind of non-optimal class to a bomb group, and bomb groups seem to be the only way anyone is interested in leveling. The Social bonus is a nice thought, but in practice people don't really seem to care. They'd much rather bring another bomb or something to support a bomb.

I've familiarized myself with the xp items, xp tasks, and egg factors very comfortably, but it's really just not enough. I map it out, I'm as efficient as I can be, but it still feels like a miserable grind. And this is on a class that feels extremely strong in solo play, and still at a low level. I can't imagine soloing up a class that doesn't do well in that environment. And this is all in consideration of how much I know it's going to slow down as I get higher.

This game has a very complex meta for someone brand new to figure out. A lot of times people aren't going to get what they expect out of their class at high end. Rerolling is going to be a common occurrence for new players and a faster solo leveling pace will make it a lot less painful for them.

With all that said I think there's a pretty simple solution: Massively increase the value of Phoenix Eggs in terms of xp. Really, what is the possible harm in this? I see no downside. Just don't overdo it to the point where it's faster than grouping. Everyone's happy.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 4:57 AM by Frieza
have to disagree with posters saying EXP is slow.

Stealther classes (who never get groups) can easily get 1-20 in about 3-4 hours. Then after that, its roughly (and being conservative) 30 mins to 1 hour per level. This is utilizing exp items and eggs (ignoring tasks).

Therefore a maximum of 30 hours needed. If you log in for 2 hours a day (for your very casual player) thats essentially 2 weeks roughly speaking being extremely conservative, without tasks (tasks seem to add around 1 to 2 bubs per completion and theyre auto). so in theory it takes even less time.

So if youre thinking this takes too long, id argue MMO's are not the right fit for you.

Ive seen some characters get to 50 in less than a week now playing 4 hours roughly per day, and i think its only going to get easier with farming/ PL sessions/ exp tricks.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 5:21 AM by Dominus
I guess if you think PvE is the purpose of the game or PvP. If people think you must put in your "dues" in PvE to PvP, I take exception to that. With very little PvE content, why begrudge people the time it takes to get to RvR?
Fri 25 Jan 2019 6:40 AM by ughsmash
Frieza wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 4:57 AM
have to disagree with posters saying EXP is slow.

Stealther classes (who never get groups) can easily get 1-20 in about 3-4 hours. Then after that, its roughly (and being conservative) 30 mins to 1 hour per level. This is utilizing exp items and eggs (ignoring tasks).

Therefore a maximum of 30 hours needed. If you log in for 2 hours a day (for your very casual player) thats essentially 2 weeks roughly speaking being extremely conservative, without tasks (tasks seem to add around 1 to 2 bubs per completion and theyre auto). so in theory it takes even less time.

So if youre thinking this takes too long, id argue MMO's are not the right fit for you.

Ive seen some characters get to 50 in less than a week now playing 4 hours roughly per day, and i think its only going to get easier with farming/ PL sessions/ exp tricks.

This post is made up numbers from a made up place.

I challenge you to level an infiltrator solo to 20 in 3 hours.

You are telling me you have seen people get 50 in a week at 4 hours a day which is 28 hours. NOPE. This isn't an exaggeration, this is a lie.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:08 AM by Sepplord
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 6:13 PM
What about doubling the xp bonus in the frontiers for solo.

too many solo boni make people not group up anymore...give people more RP for duo/trio/quad/etc... not for being a loner
Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:12 AM by Sepplord
Frieza wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 4:57 AM
have to disagree with posters saying EXP is slow.

Stealther classes (who never get groups) can easily get 1-20 in about 3-4 hours. Then after that, its roughly (and being conservative) 30 mins to 1 hour per level. This is utilizing exp items and eggs (ignoring tasks).

Therefore a maximum of 30 hours needed. If you log in for 2 hours a day (for your very casual player) thats essentially 2 weeks roughly speaking being extremely conservative, without tasks (tasks seem to add around 1 to 2 bubs per completion and theyre auto). so in theory it takes even less time.

So if youre thinking this takes too long, id argue MMO's are not the right fit for you.

Ive seen some characters get to 50 in less than a week now playing 4 hours roughly per day, and i think its only going to get easier with farming/ PL sessions/ exp tricks.

30-60minutes per level? have you actually done that 40+?

And 2hours every day is "very casual"? I believe a lot of people will disagree with that
Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:38 AM by Ceen
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:12 AM
Frieza wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 4:57 AM
have to disagree with posters saying EXP is slow.

Stealther classes (who never get groups) can easily get 1-20 in about 3-4 hours. Then after that, its roughly (and being conservative) 30 mins to 1 hour per level. This is utilizing exp items and eggs (ignoring tasks).

Therefore a maximum of 30 hours needed. If you log in for 2 hours a day (for your very casual player) thats essentially 2 weeks roughly speaking being extremely conservative, without tasks (tasks seem to add around 1 to 2 bubs per completion and theyre auto). so in theory it takes even less time.

So if youre thinking this takes too long, id argue MMO's are not the right fit for you.

Ive seen some characters get to 50 in less than a week now playing 4 hours roughly per day, and i think its only going to get easier with farming/ PL sessions/ exp tricks.

30-60minutes per level? have you actually done that 40+?

And 2hours every day is "very casual"? I believe a lot of people will disagree with that
Well the trick is to move spot after level 4 task, if you are lucky and no one quits during the mob spot change (*haha*) you can xp with a decent speed. Else its a looong grind.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:51 AM by Sepplord
Ceen wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:38 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:12 AM
Frieza wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 4:57 AM
have to disagree with posters saying EXP is slow.

Stealther classes (who never get groups) can easily get 1-20 in about 3-4 hours. Then after that, its roughly (and being conservative) 30 mins to 1 hour per level. This is utilizing exp items and eggs (ignoring tasks).

Therefore a maximum of 30 hours needed. If you log in for 2 hours a day (for your very casual player) thats essentially 2 weeks roughly speaking being extremely conservative, without tasks (tasks seem to add around 1 to 2 bubs per completion and theyre auto). so in theory it takes even less time.

So if youre thinking this takes too long, id argue MMO's are not the right fit for you.

Ive seen some characters get to 50 in less than a week now playing 4 hours roughly per day, and i think its only going to get easier with farming/ PL sessions/ exp tricks.

30-60minutes per level? have you actually done that 40+?

And 2hours every day is "very casual"? I believe a lot of people will disagree with that
Well the trick is to move spot after level 4 task, if you are lucky and no one quits during the mob spot change (*haha*) you can xp with a decent speed. Else its a looong grind.

Noone quits? From the group stealthers never get? (your words directly before claiming those numbers)
And how many mobs is lvl4task in total? 15+31+50+75? ~171mobs. Yellow ones. Doable in an Hour, but 170mobs and 4task completions don't give you a level.
What killspeed are you calculating for that happening in 30minutes? And you claim that is a CONSERVATIVE estimate? Oo

Sorry, but it seems as if you are just trolling to make others feel bad that they are so much slower
Fri 25 Jan 2019 10:22 AM by Rockzor
Frieza wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 4:57 AM
have to disagree with posters saying EXP is slow.

Stealther classes (who never get groups) can easily get 1-20 in about 3-4 hours. Then after that, its roughly (and being conservative) 30 mins to 1 hour per level. This is utilizing exp items and eggs (ignoring tasks).

Therefore a maximum of 30 hours needed. If you log in for 2 hours a day (for your very casual player) thats essentially 2 weeks roughly speaking being extremely conservative, without tasks (tasks seem to add around 1 to 2 bubs per completion and theyre auto). so in theory it takes even less time.

So if youre thinking this takes too long, id argue MMO's are not the right fit for you.

Ive seen some characters get to 50 in less than a week now playing 4 hours roughly per day, and i think its only going to get easier with farming/ PL sessions/ exp tricks.

I have 30 hours on a 40 Cabalist. I mass pulled aoe dot kiting doing xp items and tasks as well as strong focus groups. A stealther is NOT getting to 50 in 30 hours. And you say it can be done WITHOUT tasks haha! Most of us come from long grindy MMOs. Hell, it took me 3 years to get to 65 on Everquest back in the day and I loved it all. But this is 2019 on an old game being reborn. The point is to get to 50 and RVR. I get people like to PVE but a lot of the PVE content is missing here, and for good reason. We essentially level in two zones exclusively on ALB starting from 20-50. There are other zones yes but these two zones are connected even. The whole point of this post is, it takes a long time for a server that wants to see action and retention to get to 50 for multiple characters and even more difficult for any sort of melee or archer class.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 2:59 PM by Yzeron
Seriously. The game starts at 50. It's 15+ years old. Why not just i50 this. Everyone PvE's to get to the lvl50 stuff. Waste of time.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 3:16 PM by nerex
As some have already said, of course PvE is not the strong point of this game and (I've tried for a bit) levelling a stealther is really a pain. All the shades I asked confirmed me that. It's really of no use at all to force someone which is not part of the meta PvE classes to a mindless and frustrating grind.
Not to say that a lot of DAoC players are now in their 30s so, of course, the time to invest on the game is not the same as we were 16.
I'm not saying to i50 the server, but come one, that boring grind is of no use.

I'm with those of say that Phoenix Eggs should get a boost, a big boost.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 4:39 PM by PingGuy
We don't need i50, just less of a slowdown as we level up. There is a line between fun leveling and grind leveling. Somewhere along the curve of slowing experience is a point where people say, bleh, this isn't fun anymore. That line isn't necessarily always in how fast/slow you level, but in the experience of gaining those levels.

There are a number of factors that can take you from "fresh and fun" to "slow and grindy." For example, when you find level appropriate mobs that fit a personal task, but they are aggressive and you are solo, that makes it very tense and difficult. You will probably end up dead a few times which really drags things out and sucks the fun out of it. Or when the next XP turn-in item you can collect is on mobs that are purple, you are stuck with tasks and farming mobs for a while until turn-ins become an option again.

I found level 22 to be really slow, compared to 20 and 21. I may find some upcoming levels to be faster, but the curve overall is getting slower. Eventually it will just feel too slow and be a grind regardless. I think they should tune things to avoid that. You don't need a drastic difference in leveling speed between 1 and 49. A difference, sure, but not a drastic one.

I'm going to keep leveling, but if I hit a point where each level feels like a slog, then there will be a level where I say "bleh" and go play an alt. Eventually, if I hit that point on all my alts, I'm just going to stop logging in. I hope that doesn't happen. Even if it gets slow I still want to hit 50, potentially on multiple characters, but that will depend on how much of a slog it feels like at that point.

I like PvE, that's my preferred environment, but when it's slow just to be slow, then PvE gets boring quick.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:39 PM by Ralconn
Can we please stop telling people MMOs aren't for them because they don't want to slog through a gutted out version of content that is 15+ years old? I have multiple level 50s on live (from before all the crazy fast XP changes). I have multiple max level characters in many other MMOs. I've seen MANY MMO's come and go over the years, most of which failed spectacularly. MMO's are not some new thing anymore with no other competitors on the market. It's an established genre that many people are familiar with.

For the most part, people play DAOC for the level 50 content and PvP. If you want a strong PvE game there are so many better options out there.

This is basically like playing Mario except you only have access to the jump button on the first screen for 50 hours. After you stomp on goombas heads thousands of times you unlock the ability to move and play the rest of the game.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:44 PM by WyandVoidbringer
I tried to be efficient as possible with my time and it took me 15 hours to solo to level 24 as a Shadowblade. This includes several insta levels from turning in XP items after level 20.

I got to Thidranki, poked around a little bit, and thought it would be fun to level a different class.

But when I considered that it would take me another 15 hours to reach Thidranki again, I lost all motivation.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 9:23 PM by daocgod
It's really bad to solo and no one wants anything that isn't a Cleric, Friar, Cabalist, Necro or Wizard
Sat 26 Jan 2019 7:01 AM by ughsmash
Now that XP items no longer allow you hand them in after a server reset XP just got nerfed again... BIGTIME. You will see people leveling even slower now. XP is going the wrong way guys. Do something fast!
Sat 26 Jan 2019 7:41 AM by Dacht
This won't make me popular but I think most of the dramatics in this thread are silly. I don't love grinding and I would be ok with allowing for easier leveling if it were available, but that said: Soloing as a ranger I've been able to breeze through most levels. Here is the formula:

1. Farm mob drop
2. Ding next level. As soon as you level turn in xp items (this is almost a level before 30 and at least a half level until about 47.
3. Type /task personal to get a list of all 15 monster kill tasks
4. Kill 15 of each monster type. You will level before this is complete pretty much all the way up.

Other tips:
Farm DF and the frontiers or dungeons because you complete concurrent tasks that way. Until you get to forty it usually only takes item turn ins and a couple tasks to level. Ex: rocots in DF count as demons, dungeon, and frontier. Then necros count as humanoid, dungeon, and frontier. 15 rocots+15 necys= 4 completed tasks (humanoids, demons, frontiers, dungeons). Find 15 demonic familiars and you can knock out animals as well.

The info button on Phoenix eggs tells you how many you'd need to level.

Choose exp drop mobs that also complete kill tasks. Pheagouls are undead and drop xp items...

Finally, make friends, join a guild and group sometimes.

Hope that is useful to someone, good luck!
Sat 26 Jan 2019 8:01 AM by krycek
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:44 PM
I tried to be efficient as possible with my time and it took me 15 hours to solo to level 24 as a Shadowblade. This includes several insta levels from turning in XP items after level 20.

I got to Thidranki, poked around a little bit, and thought it would be fun to level a different class.

But when I considered that it would take me another 15 hours to reach Thidranki again, I lost all motivation.

You're doing something wrong bud. I got a nightshade to 46 mostly solo doing kill tasks and item turn ins. Started doing the RvR tasks at 39-46. It's not that bad. Kill different mob's for the kill tasks, farm xp items and use the egg's.
Sat 26 Jan 2019 2:05 PM by WyandVoidbringer
krycek wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 8:01 AM
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:44 PM
I tried to be efficient as possible with my time and it took me 15 hours to solo to level 24 as a Shadowblade. This includes several insta levels from turning in XP items after level 20.

I got to Thidranki, poked around a little bit, and thought it would be fun to level a different class.

But when I considered that it would take me another 15 hours to reach Thidranki again, I lost all motivation.

You're doing something wrong bud. I got a nightshade to 46 mostly solo doing kill tasks and item turn ins. Started doing the RvR tasks at 39-46. It's not that bad. Kill different mob's for the kill tasks, farm xp items and use the egg's.

I did everything you've described. Granted, 10-20 is a little slow due to a lack of XP items.

I'm not saying that it's not easy, because it is very easy to level solo. It just takes a while. And with the rest of the server advancing at such a rapid pace, there's not much motivation to keep plugging away at it by myself.
Sat 26 Jan 2019 3:57 PM by Geek
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 2:05 PM
It just takes a while. And with the rest of the server advancing at such a rapid pace, there's not much motivation to keep plugging away at it by myself.

Some people are heavily motivated by the success of others around them and work harder or make changes to have the same success. Other people lose all motivation and hang their head when their current path doesn't align with those around them.

Don't be the latter.

If you want things in the game to change, change the way you play the game.
Sat 26 Jan 2019 4:16 PM by WyandVoidbringer
Geek wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 3:57 PM
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 2:05 PM
It just takes a while. And with the rest of the server advancing at such a rapid pace, there's not much motivation to keep plugging away at it by myself.

Some people are heavily motivated by the success of others around them and work harder or make changes to have the same success. Other people lose all motivation and hang their head when their current path doesn't align with those around them.

Don't be the latter.

If you want things in the game to change, change the way you play the game.

It's a game. I don't log into DAoC to challenge myself or be an agent of change.

My time is a precious commodity, and this gutted form of PvE isn't fun. I'm only here to RvR.
Sat 26 Jan 2019 9:58 PM by ughsmash
krycek wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 8:01 AM
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:44 PM
I tried to be efficient as possible with my time and it took me 15 hours to solo to level 24 as a Shadowblade. This includes several insta levels from turning in XP items after level 20.

I got to Thidranki, poked around a little bit, and thought it would be fun to level a different class.

But when I considered that it would take me another 15 hours to reach Thidranki again, I lost all motivation.

You're doing something wrong bud. I got a nightshade to 46 mostly solo doing kill tasks and item turn ins. Started doing the RvR tasks at 39-46. It's not that bad. Kill different mob's for the kill tasks, farm xp items and use the egg's.

I challenge you to give me a screenshot of you /played because what you are saying in terms of "not that bad" is subjective.
Sat 26 Jan 2019 10:30 PM by Geek
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 4:16 PM
My time is a precious commodity, and this gutted form of PvE isn't fun. I'm only here to RvR.

If that's indeed true, and your time is a precious commodity, then putting any amount of time into an online video game is a waste of time and leads to nothing productive in your life. Spend that time with your family and less time griping over the XP rates in an MMORPG.

And most of all, have fun!
Sat 26 Jan 2019 10:55 PM by WyandVoidbringer
Geek wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 10:30 PM
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 4:16 PM
My time is a precious commodity, and this gutted form of PvE isn't fun. I'm only here to RvR.

If that's indeed true, and your time is a precious commodity, then putting any amount of time into an online video game is a waste of time and leads to nothing productive in your life. Spend that time with your family and less time griping over the XP rates in an MMORPG.

And most of all, have fun!

Some game time in the quiet hours at the end of a hectic day helps me unwind. Some people watch TV. I like to play a video game.

60 hours to reach 50 solo, not including time to gear up at 50, makes RvR pretty much out of reach for my limited playtime, unless I want to commit myself to a PvE slog for the next 45 days.

Like I said in a previous post, I suppose that's just the nature of the game, and perhaps that's why modern games have moved away from that model.
Sat 26 Jan 2019 11:08 PM by ughsmash
Geek wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 10:30 PM
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 4:16 PM
My time is a precious commodity, and this gutted form of PvE isn't fun. I'm only here to RvR.

If that's indeed true, and your time is a precious commodity, then putting any amount of time into an online video game is a waste of time and leads to nothing productive in your life. Spend that time with your family and less time griping over the XP rates in an MMORPG.

And most of all, have fun!

Clearly you do not understand the levels of what a person can consider to be precious. If someone is already leading a very productive life, then your time to use on entertainment can be considered precious. Pursuit of a fulfilling hobby is precious. The XP experience of this Freeshard is dumbed down. You do not have a good XP experience outside of the key classes for an AoE Bomb group. So it feels like a wall you need to scale. Especially if you work hard and want to come home and enjoy your hobby.

I think we can find common ground in saying the RvR in this game is the goal for nearly everyone. The PvE is very uninspired and from 1-50 you are simply repeating the same motions repeatedly. Cutting down on the time for a Casual Player will keep the server alive longer. I do not promote i50, because character pride would be gone and people would be rolling alts like mad.

If someone is saying hey, my experience leveling isn't as good as it could be, because it is keeping me from the goal and the PvE tasks are not fun, it should be looked at. We can do things to make the server better. Phoenix Eggs after 30 are nearly useless. My poor friend is an infiltrator and has to sit after killing 2-3 yellow mobs, vs my Cabalist who can pull a whole camp of yellow and orange mobs and kill them in seconds. All day on Alb I see infiltrators spamming LFG and getting nowhere. Even offering to pay. You are looking at a difference in leveling time being 2-5 times longer for undesirable classes.

Having no empathy and judging a persons experience and telling them to use their time differently and play something else doesn't help them and does not help you.

I will preface the following by saying I know this is not Uthgard. The leveling is miles better, but it is still punishing if you are not the right class or hop from Freeshard to Freeshard keeping fresh knowledge of the game. I will give you good info though from something I can see as a trend on all Freeshards.

Look up Uthgard Freeshard Population on google. You will see this: Opening in Feb. at 4.5k pop then falling to under 1k by August. Losing over 1/4 of the pop in a few months. I think it will be slower here, because steps were taken to make XP faster, but slow XP is the number one reason people leave these Freeshards and there is room to improve the pace.
Sat 26 Jan 2019 11:15 PM by Quik
We need to make Xp and leveling FUN for those (like me) that enjoy doing it with alts, but it shouldn't be so dependent on groups.

I have a family so just being able to jump into a group for 5 hours and power myself up would be great, but not feasible.

The phoenix eggs were much more helpful early in beta when they first came out, now they are pointless after 15-20.

Again, the question is, who does it HURT to make xp a little better for soloers/smaller groups? Full groups will still always be able to level faster, but come on lets throw a bone to those that don't always want a full group.
Sun 27 Jan 2019 1:34 AM by daocgod
Not much to add that hasn't been said, its just shit that you get one turn-in a level and have to grind out the other 5 bubs as an undesirable class.
Sun 27 Jan 2019 1:47 AM by Geek
ughsmash wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 11:08 PM
Having no empathy

I'm empathetic to his plight, which is why I replied with sound advice. The second reply was fitting to his excuse. I don't need help. XP is fine to me. I play an infiltrator and a cab. I rolled new ones the other day. I got to 12 on my cab in 2hr 45min. I reached level 8 on my infiltrator in the same time. That's a 4 level difference in that time, but I also understand it was two different classes and two different skill sets with two different paths to the same goal.

Don't like the XP rate of said toon? Pick a class that goes faster, or do something with the precious time that you have to commit to the game and make those levels happen. I don't see the developers changing it anytime soon, so best make the most of it or /q.
Sun 27 Jan 2019 7:17 AM by krycek
ughsmash wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 9:58 PM
krycek wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 8:01 AM
WyandVoidbringer wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:44 PM
I tried to be efficient as possible with my time and it took me 15 hours to solo to level 24 as a Shadowblade. This includes several insta levels from turning in XP items after level 20.

I got to Thidranki, poked around a little bit, and thought it would be fun to level a different class.

But when I considered that it would take me another 15 hours to reach Thidranki again, I lost all motivation.

You're doing something wrong bud. I got a nightshade to 46 mostly solo doing kill tasks and item turn ins. Started doing the RvR tasks at 39-46. It's not that bad. Kill different mob's for the kill tasks, farm xp items and use the egg's.

I challenge you to give me a screenshot of you /played because what you are saying in terms of "not that bad" is subjective.

Hit 50 in a little over 48 hours. Been 50 for almost 23 hours. Got alchemy to 734 so far. Lot's of afk time in there too.
https://imgur.com/a/PHen5Zt
Sun 27 Jan 2019 8:11 AM by Ceen
I like the live version of xping from like 5 years ago. It was basically battleground only including RvR ^^
Sun 27 Jan 2019 10:28 AM by Drominchen
I hit 50 including 700 alchemy (for spec buff pots and invigs) at around 51 hours with my blademaster. 99% of the time was solo doing personal tasks and exp item turn ins. I think 3-4 levels were grouped. The time 40-50 could be a bit faster but all in all it was ok.
Sun 27 Jan 2019 10:38 AM by Sarcast
Well tried to find a grp with lvl 30 shaman & RM ... nothing
I can accept this IF! -> I can XP in 2 men or even solo, but I come to the conclusion that outside full groups the time is not worth it ...
So we wait 30 Mins to find or even build a grp wipe the first 15 mins twice ... ups my time is up and log out.

Find myself to start twinking ...
Kobold SB trying the XP item Task ... running around finding the mobs, drop rate sucks, can use huldu legs just ONCE!
Doing grendel orms ... they eat me con yellow! Hugh downtime ... rage quit after getting annoyed sitting around regging.

L32 RM 22h Duo and Grps (most playtime in duo/solo)
L28 BD 16h Solo and onetime grp (most solo)
L31 Sha 22h Duo/Solo 2 x in grp (most Duo Solo )
L12 Ska 7h Solo
L7 SB 3h Solo
Total Playtime 70h since Saturday after launch ...

Well give me a call if you implement QOL for Solo/Duo! I like this PVE but I need progression!
By now I mostly will log in call for grp and log out after 30 mins to find me another hobby. I am a casual now!
Sun 27 Jan 2019 10:47 AM by keen
As ceen said.
Just make xp gain in bgs like live. So most efficient way to lvl is pvping in battle grounds. Would make them much more viable and leveling would actually be fun
Sun 27 Jan 2019 11:12 AM by Sarcast
keen wrote: ↑
Sun 27 Jan 2019 10:47 AM
As ceen said.
Just make xp gain in bgs like live. So most efficient way to lvl is pvping in battle grounds. Would make them much more viable and leveling would actually be fun

Ooohh I could live with that! Most fun I had was in BGs ... Thid, after that the BGs where mostly dead.
On Phoenix you have running silent FG and solo small men suicidals.
Sun 27 Jan 2019 3:55 PM by Afuldan
Back in the day, my guildies and me would have twinks for the most popular BG’s (Thid, Molvik, Cathal) with /xpoff and /rpoff. Even if you didnt have maxed level/rr, it was great XP.

The rp bonuses here make people cap put of Thid after an hr or two there. So easy to hit 1L5 there when you are getting 10 RP per kill at that low of a RR. I feel like I got about 10 engagements and I capped out on my warrior.

Is Caledonia more active than Abernathi? All I found in Aber was a pair of Animists stacking shrooms and camping near HPK.
Sun 27 Jan 2019 8:32 PM by Bustermann25
I played beta and managed to get a minstrel to level 50 duoing with my brother on his scout, the time required was reasonable to me. We clocked somewhere in the vicinity of 50 hours 1-50 playing duo. Fast forward to server launch and I discover that the xp requirements have been increased, I brought 2 brothers and 2 of my good friends over with me to play. 6 days later and over 45 hours /played we managed to reach level 34 with no end in sight. 10 xp items per level, and a group of 4 stealthers nobody wants to play with. Today all 4 of them told me they were done. So it begins.
Sun 27 Jan 2019 9:04 PM by Quik
Bustermann25 wrote: ↑
Sun 27 Jan 2019 8:32 PM
I played beta and managed to get a minstrel to level 50 duoing with my brother on his scout, the time required was reasonable to me. We clocked somewhere in the vicinity of 50 hours 1-50 playing duo. Fast forward to server launch and I discover that the xp requirements have been increased, I brought 2 brothers and 2 of my good friends over with me to play. 6 days later and over 45 hours /played we managed to reach level 34 with no end in sight. 10 xp items per level, and a group of 4 stealthers nobody wants to play with. Today all 4 of them told me they were done. So it begins.

This is exactly how I feel.

Beta was perfect when I played but then I start live and find the xp changed a LOT.
Sun 27 Jan 2019 9:15 PM by Warjon
Bustermann25 wrote: ↑
Sun 27 Jan 2019 8:32 PM
I played beta and managed to get a minstrel to level 50 duoing with my brother on his scout, the time required was reasonable to me. We clocked somewhere in the vicinity of 50 hours 1-50 playing duo. Fast forward to server launch and I discover that the xp requirements have been increased, I brought 2 brothers and 2 of my good friends over with me to play. 6 days later and over 45 hours /played we managed to reach level 34 with no end in sight. 10 xp items per level, and a group of 4 stealthers nobody wants to play with. Today all 4 of them told me they were done. So it begins.

Yep. I have same story, though all it took was the 20s to end any thoughts of them soloing. I too expected the xp to be better. True, being 3 times faster than Uth is great, but one is still looking at a grind of 60 hrs...for a casual or nooblet that is a very long time doing DAOC's totally mindless PvE.

With the top reaching RR 5-6 and farming DF and leveling spots I expect the xp rate will cull their heard to be farmed quickly. Uth 3.0 with the same cast of characters and guilds.
Sun 27 Jan 2019 9:28 PM by Bustermann25
I just don't know why they changed the beta leveling speeds, I do not understand the rationale behind increasing xp rates. Beta was by no means I50, I felt like i fully earned my 50 minstrel but I felt I had adequate progression every time I logged into the server. That keeps people coming back, and rolling alts, and keeping BG's alive, and keeping fresh blood in the 50 RvR scene. Slow that xp down.. and it's the same story time after time. Hopefully the devs will review this, if nothing else, make the XP items non tradeable and make alts farm the items. It's at least a path of progression for solo and small man groups, and the try hard 8 man focus groups will continue to clean up 1-50, just as they are doing now. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE SOLO SMALL/MAN ASPECT, that is the life blood of any server.
Sun 27 Jan 2019 9:31 PM by Bustermann25
To clarify, remove the 10 items per level requirement and make the xp items non tradeable. That will keep the pve classes from farming stacks for their alts. Make the alts farm their own mats with no cap on items per level. This will keep the pve zones lively and groups going for the foreseeable future.
Sun 27 Jan 2019 11:01 PM by Geek
From Uthred:

"We will increase the XP per Phoenix Egg. Handing them in you will get 50% more XP per egg. This should help solo players a lot and will make their way to 50 more enjoyable."

I'm amazed that the feedback was heard. I didn't think anything would change. I bow to you all and will rethink future attempts at having you settle for the way things are and not how you want them to be.
Mon 28 Jan 2019 12:21 AM by krycek
Sarcast you have the 2 easiest mid classes to lvl solo in your list of characters. AE DoT and kite..get xp. I don't think some of you are even trying. At least they raised egg xp for ya.
Mon 28 Jan 2019 11:03 PM by Halma
krycek wrote: ↑
Mon 28 Jan 2019 12:21 AM
Sarcast you have the 2 easiest mid classes to lvl solo in your list of characters. AE DoT and kite..get xp. I don't think some of you are even trying. At least they raised egg xp for ya.

I also wouldn't consider 70 hours of playtime in 2 weeks as a casual gamer.
Tue 29 Jan 2019 2:46 AM by KabalixSunna
keen wrote: ↑
Sun 27 Jan 2019 10:47 AM
As ceen said.
Just make xp gain in bgs like live. So most efficient way to lvl is pvping in battle grounds. Would make them much more viable and leveling would actually be fun

The keens are right!

I grinded to 32, played some hours in caledonia.. Getting 0.1-0.2 bub for a solo kill is too few. I reached rr cap way faster then max lvl.
Sad, that higher bgs don't exist, even on uthgard they added them.
I am not sure if/when i do 33-50 grind, still burned out of uthgard leveling... And not sure to invest that grinding time again with the limited play time i have
Tue 29 Jan 2019 8:05 AM by Tritri
BM is 44.5 with about 1 day of play (I substracted roughly the time spent doing RvR in thid and cale)

Building groups when I have time
Soloing the rest of the time, trying to do kill tasks (40 is nice in DF, you can do 5 tasks, animals, demons, humans, dungeon and rvr), or utilizing the new bonus xp for mobs that are not farmed (680% per mob lol)
Buying task xp item since lvl 40


But it's true that when I tried to build a group I had my share of selfish prick
Animists that asks if we already have the spot before considering grouping
Druids that literally leave the melee group saying "this is too slow, I'll go find a pbae group" ! Not even looking for a rep or anything, just straight up disband without any warning x)

But most of the time it's fine and some people actually enjoy melees groups. I didn't test it with the new tinder add damage, but I'd wager it will be even nicer


Will start to focus on getting feathers now
Tue 29 Jan 2019 10:14 AM by ughsmash
Tritri wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Jan 2019 8:05 AM
BM is 44.5 with about 1 day of play (I substracted roughly the time spent doing RvR in thid and cale)

Building groups when I have time
Soloing the rest of the time, trying to do kill tasks (40 is nice in DF, you can do 5 tasks, animals, demons, humans, dungeon and rvr), or utilizing the new bonus xp for mobs that are not farmed (680% per mob lol)
Buying task xp item since lvl 40


But it's true that when I tried to build a group I had my share of selfish prick
Animists that asks if we already have the spot before considering grouping
Druids that literally leave the melee group saying "this is too slow, I'll go find a pbae group" ! Not even looking for a rep or anything, just straight up disband without any warning x)

But most of the time it's fine and some people actually enjoy melees groups. I didn't test it with the new tinder add damage, but I'd wager it will be even nicer


Will start to focus on getting feathers now

Nice job with your efficient leveling.

It is true if you aren't a wanted class you are left to the wolves in this server. I do however love the changes they made. It is refreshing to see they are doing something. I was sure we were on the right track with this thread, but I in no way want i50.

One nit-picky thing I can say is you are lucky to be Hib, because you guys have had DF the entire time. When I was leveling on my alb toon we had df for like 10 minutes one day and that is all. I AM NOT JOKING.
Tue 29 Jan 2019 11:45 AM by Tritri
True, Not having DF forces you to xp in even more crowded dungeon or dangerous ZF

Maybe the changes they made to xp bonus for unfarmed camp is going to open some new spots
Tue 29 Jan 2019 1:00 PM by WyandVoidbringer
I love the new changes!

Here is what I posted in the patch thread:

I just finished a play session that lasted 1 hour and 45 minutes.

Excited by the new XP changes I created a new character (Minstrel) and set out from Prydwen Keep.

At the end of my solo play session I had reached level 13.

While I played, /gu was on fire with arguments over these XP changes. I wanted to stop here briefly and sing my praise of them. I certainly wouldn't want changes made to benefit solo players to hurt the experience of those who like to group, but I love these changes, and not just because they let me level quicker on my own.

Where before leveling was a simple and boring exercise of either looking up XP items or finding a camp I could grind, killing until they turned green, and then trotting down the road to the next camp, now I'm coveting mobs that give me that high XP bonus, and I'll spend extra time trying to find them. That lets me feel a little bit clever as a player when I pass up the easy camp I've found in search of something better, and upon finding it, reap the glorious XP bonus rewards.

It was a very new way to play solo DAoC, and I enjoyed it very much!

Also, despite the fearmongering in the starter guild chat, I'm not convinced these changes will hinder group play in any way.
Tue 29 Jan 2019 1:26 PM by Sepplord
Bustermann25 wrote: ↑
Sun 27 Jan 2019 8:32 PM
I played beta and managed to get a minstrel to level 50 duoing with my brother on his scout, the time required was reasonable to me. We clocked somewhere in the vicinity of 50 hours 1-50 playing duo. Fast forward to server launch and I discover that the xp requirements have been increased, I brought 2 brothers and 2 of my good friends over with me to play. 6 days later and over 45 hours /played we managed to reach level 34 with no end in sight. 10 xp items per level, and a group of 4 stealthers nobody wants to play with. Today all 4 of them told me they were done. So it begins.


You had a group of 4 people and you decided to level stealthers....and then complain about bad XP??? /facepalm
seriously....what kind of answer do you expect?

btw. did you guys do tasks? did you do XP Items?
because even when going with a very bad grp, 45hours played for lvl34 seems really slow....
Wed 30 Jan 2019 12:19 AM by Brokenstring
I'm honestly surprised so many people find this server hard to level. It's honestly so so so damn easy, imo. I got to 50 in a week 99% solo and I wasn't even trying very hard. It's too easy here really.

I really don't like how the XP items are tradable and sellable, I think this is a mistake. I think they should be nerfed and eggs increased (which they did half of this).
Wed 30 Jan 2019 3:06 AM by Frieza
i support the increase to pvp kills in BG's being far superior to exping, but dont forget, there are classes that struggle to pvp and win. Therefore we're really only giving a boost to those classes and not others. I think youll have to apply a group bonus if you want to make it fair across the board.

Further this will reduce the amount of people PvE'ing, which will force some players to leave as well. Dont forget you need both types to make a big server.

Also, could you apply a rp bonus if you kill within the task area of a keep while its under attack/defense? so much so people are MUCH more inclined to defend/ attack?
Wed 30 Jan 2019 9:27 AM by Halma
Brokenstring wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Jan 2019 12:19 AM
I'm honestly surprised so many people find this server hard to level. It's honestly so so so damn easy, imo. I got to 50 in a week 99% solo and I wasn't even trying very hard. It's too easy here really.

I really don't like how the XP items are tradable and sellable, I think this is a mistake. I think they should be nerfed and eggs increased (which they did half of this).

"in a week" is not pretty meaningful without the /played time. A week could be 20 hours playtime or 70
But the new changes seem to be fine, I'm lvl 43 now with 35 hours exclusive solo /played (3-4 hours crafting, 2-3 hours RvR and some afk time because of my kids included) and from lvl 40,9-43 it took me about 2 hours yesterday. Collect XP items (which usually includes a lvl 2 personal killtask) , 3 more personal tasks ("kill 15 of something" and the eggs gave me a level. I had to "grind" about 1,5 bubble each level but could have done another personal task as well instead of this, but I found yellow/orange reptiles giving 470% bonus xp so I settled with these.

So my time spent leveling is about 27-30 hours and the last 7 levels should not take 20 hours. Granted, I play an enchanter who did not die once while leveling and has no problem killing orange mobs, so a melee/stealther class will take a lot more time, I'd say at least 1,5x as long.

If the level speed would be tweaked more I'd recommend that the killtasks count for blue mobs as well, so even healer classes can do some killtasks when they don't have a lot of time playing on one day.

Seeing how many eggs are needed for the lvlup is pretty good as well, so thanks for this change!
Wed 30 Jan 2019 5:28 PM by Brokenstring
It was 60 something hours, removing the crafting and AFK times. Which is really nothing considering it was all solo. I wasn't even maximizing my solo time most efficiently, as in not always doing the tasks efficiently, or the XP items efficiently. So a min/maxer on XP could cut that down to 50 I bet, completely solo. Or 13 hours with a good group, as we saw.

That's perfectly reasonable to me. Soloing is more than viable here. It wasn't supposed to replace good grouping, and it seems like that's what people want. Pure solo leveling here is 4-5 times faster than good grouping on that other server.
Thu 31 Jan 2019 4:44 AM by Tyton
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Jan 2019 1:26 PM
Bustermann25 wrote: ↑
Sun 27 Jan 2019 8:32 PM
I played beta and managed to get a minstrel to level 50 duoing with my brother on his scout, the time required was reasonable to me. We clocked somewhere in the vicinity of 50 hours 1-50 playing duo. Fast forward to server launch and I discover that the xp requirements have been increased, I brought 2 brothers and 2 of my good friends over with me to play. 6 days later and over 45 hours /played we managed to reach level 34 with no end in sight. 10 xp items per level, and a group of 4 stealthers nobody wants to play with. Today all 4 of them told me they were done. So it begins.


You had a group of 4 people and you decided to level stealthers....and then complain about bad XP??? /facepalm
seriously....what kind of answer do you expect?

btw. did you guys do tasks? did you do XP Items?
because even when going with a very bad grp, 45hours played for lvl34 seems really slow....

@Bust 45hours to lvl34... something must be wrong here. I soloed a nightshade from about 1-37 and I have 26hr /played -- I even spent a long time killing folks in BG as well and even turned XP off for a time. You need to do tasks, collection tasks, etc.
Thu 31 Jan 2019 11:57 AM by Tritri
well I mean, with 4 stealther they may xp faster by soloing or duoing...

4 stealthers must have a pretty gimped xp since they have no tank to soak damage from a big mob, no mage to deal a huge chunk of damage, no healer to help soaking damage, no buffs and no end regen

I'd be surprised if they could even chain red one by one... maybe by trying to switch aggro... seems really bad
Thu 31 Jan 2019 1:03 PM by Tree
[edit - Abuse] I would not have grouped with 4 stealthers 15 years ago and I would not do it now. In fact I have left many groups the past few weeks when I did not like the group composition. Back in the day there was a certain group setup you followed for XP, then you had 2 slots you filled up with whatever, they were called social slots, because these characters added no value to the party. Stealthers add no value to an XP group. You cant run a smooth XP group with 4 characters that add no value.
If you want to play a stealther you have to expect that grouping will be harder than with other classes. If you want it easier, join a guild, trade PL, buy or collect XP items first. There are many things you can do to make the process easier. You just have to use your brain and act smart.
[edit - Abuse]

There is absolutely no need for faster XP. Period.
Thu 31 Jan 2019 8:23 PM by Tyton
Yeah - 4 stealth is the problem for sure. In fact, if there's 4 people, you might consider rolling 2 sets of toons. Maybe 2 guys make stealth and the other two make non stealth, then vice versa. Then you'll all end up with high level alts and make grouping easier. Haven't tried it myself. But I've passed groups as a solo nightshade just by being smart with personal tasks and collection items. 4 stealth just straight up leveling sounds like torture.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 2:59 PM by Jaegaer
Eggs make it so that playing solo is almost always preferrable to playing with a gimped group if levelling speed is of any concern. Indeed it is bets to solo the lowest conned mobs (so low yellow(high blue) that still give eggs (unless you are of a class that can solo chain higher mobs).

But, DAoC should not be about whoever races fastest to 50, it is about who has the most fun while doing so.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:42 PM by moghedan
Tree wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Jan 2019 1:03 PM
[edit - Abuse] I would not have grouped with 4 stealthers 15 years ago and I would not do it now. In fact I have left many groups the past few weeks when I did not like the group composition. Back in the day there was a certain group setup you followed for XP, then you had 2 slots you filled up with whatever, they were called social slots, because these characters added no value to the party. Stealthers add no value to an XP group. You cant run a smooth XP group with 4 characters that add no value.
If you want to play a stealther you have to expect that grouping will be harder than with other classes. If you want it easier, join a guild, trade PL, buy or collect XP items first. There are many things you can do to make the process easier. You just have to use your brain and act smart.
[edit - Abuse]

There is absolutely no need for faster XP. Period.

If there is an issue, this guy is their posterboy.

Albion has issues that none of the "one size fits all" solutions is going to resolve.

There are 14 classes, of which four fit into the "desired PVE" category.
Two more fit into different PVE group type.
There are two that solo so well that they monopolize entire spawn areas, and one of those is the same as one of the two above.

The remaining SEVEN classes both suck at solo and have little chance to ever group with posterboy.
The kicker? Only three of the seven classes that have a chance to get a group in PVP... and they are all support unable to do much of anything by themselves...

The SEVEN unfortunates can't band together to fix their problems, either. If two join up, they lose the eggs, and they cannot fight high enough levels to get the task bonus. And if they group into larger groups to fix that? They cannot handle the BAF. So, solo it is. Yellows only, to get the task bonus.

So... diversify our killing? Kill 15 of each type, to get the bonus xp?
The entire realm is Humanoid, Undead, and to a lesser degree, animal. All the other types are very small populations that exist in very small level bands, usually at such a low level that it doesn't matter. The small number of exceptions are strip mined by the solo classes. Because they only exist in small numbers, they have a great per kill xp bonus... perfect for selling leveling services.

How do you get enough money to pay for the leveling service? By making your own solo class and strip mining the spawns, making sure the problem is self perpetuating...
Fri 1 Feb 2019 7:44 PM by Tyton
moghedan wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:42 PM
The SEVEN unfortunates can't band together to fix their problems, either. If two join up, they lose the eggs, and they cannot fight high enough levels to get the task bonus. And if they group into larger groups to fix that? They cannot handle the BAF. So, solo it is. Yellows only, to get the task bonus.

I can confirm that duoing XP collection tasks/personal tasks with a stealther and melee hybrid was faster XP than either of us leveling on our own (and more fun). Granted, we made sure to have things like campfires, invig pots, etc to get us an edge (no reason why people shouldn't obtain these if they plan to solo).

moghedan wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:42 PM
So... diversify our killing? Kill 15 of each type, to get the bonus xp?
The entire realm is Humanoid, Undead, and to a lesser degree, animal. All the other types are very small populations that exist in very small level bands, usually at such a low level that it doesn't matter. The small number of exceptions are strip mined by the solo classes. Because they only exist in small numbers, they have a great per kill xp bonus... perfect for selling leveling services.

Exactly. Hand in XP item at start of level, go do a personal task or two, then start farming the XP item for the next level, hand in eggs (if solo), you level, hand in new XP item, rinse and repeat. I've done this as a solo NS (without using DF most of the time). Level 1 and 2 tasks can be completed easily every day and that includes killing x amount of mobs in frontier, x amount in a dungeon, x animals, x undead, etc. Explore SI some too. If you're plowing through all those tasks everyday, then I'd imagine you're moving along quite nicely. It won't always be a walk in the park, but very doable.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:02 PM by Sarcast
Well was happy about the changes, but only for my BD. This (BD) is almost nice leveling with.
Though came about a bug, where I was accepted only ONE (1) XP Item the reward and left with a stack of only 9 items ... No XP Item Quest for this lvl anymore ... frustrating.
Need a break from this slack feeling ...
Well (empty) house is paid for 4 weeks ... yawn.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 6:23 PM by Kaedius
Sarcast wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:02 PM
Well was happy about the changes, but only for my BD. This (BD) is almost nice leveling with.
Though came about a bug, where I was accepted only ONE (1) XP Item the reward and left with a stack of only 9 items ... No XP Item Quest for this lvl anymore ... frustrating.
Need a break from this slack feeling ...
Well (empty) house is paid for 4 weeks ... yawn.

I may be wrong, but I think this can happen if you turn in XP items when you are just about to level. For example, you have one bubble to level and then hand in a stack of 10, it might take 1 XP item away and level you up, and then apply the 9 left to your next level. When you try to hand in a stack of 10 again, it'll only accept 1 because 9 were used previously after you leveled up.

I haven't tested this, but I had something similar happen and I think that was the case.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 6:27 PM by Quik
Kaedius wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Feb 2019 6:23 PM
Sarcast wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:02 PM
Well was happy about the changes, but only for my BD. This (BD) is almost nice leveling with.
Though came about a bug, where I was accepted only ONE (1) XP Item the reward and left with a stack of only 9 items ... No XP Item Quest for this lvl anymore ... frustrating.
Need a break from this slack feeling ...
Well (empty) house is paid for 4 weeks ... yawn.

I may be wrong, but I think this can happen if you turn in XP items when you are just about to level. For example, you have one bubble to level and then hand in a stack of 10, it might take 1 XP item away and level you up, and then apply the 9 left to your next level. When you try to hand in a stack of 10 again, it'll only accept 1 because 9 were used previously after you leveled up.

I haven't tested this, but I had something similar happen and I think that was the case.

This is exactly how it happens.

If you are say 1 bub from lvl and you turn in 10 items there is a good chance the other 9 items got applied for the next lvl so when he went to give 10 more items it only took 1.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 6:34 PM by Afuldan
Break down your stacks. Yes its a bunch of clicking. It also prevents any of the now lower level xp item (which gives you less relative XP to your new level) from being applied.
Sat 2 Feb 2019 7:13 PM by Bustermann25
Update: We managed to hit 50 soloing and we broke the group apart. 4 stealth group XP was atrocious. We managed to do 34-50 in half the time it took us to reach 34 in a group. I ended up with 57 hours /played soloing the remaining 16 levels. It is definitely way more beneficial to solo these less wanted classes than it is to try and make a group. And to the guy that /facepalmed me for making stealthers with my friends.. That's what we play and we have no desire to roll a 4 man pve group. XP is good solo and XP is good in an optimized pve group. The rest not so much.
Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:51 PM by Afuldan
Bustermann25 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Feb 2019 7:13 PM
Update: We managed to hit 50 soloing and we broke the group apart. 4 stealth group XP was atrocious. We managed to do 34-50 in half the time it took us to reach 34 in a group. I ended up with 57 hours /played soloing the remaining 16 levels. It is definitely way more beneficial to solo these less wanted classes than it is to try and make a group. And to the guy that /facepalmed me for making stealthers with my friends.. That's what we play and we have no desire to roll a 4 man pve group. XP is good solo and XP is good in an optimized pve group. The rest not so much.

Stealthers are notoriously hard to get groups for in PvE. Glad you guys made it through! Now the true fun begins for yall!
Sun 3 Feb 2019 5:02 PM by relvinian
Good news is once you level those stealthers once u dont have to do it again!
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