What happened to NA action? - Phoenix Freeshard

First time I logged in a while and literally nothing going on in MId. Did all BG leaders quit?

Looking at server numbers(1:30 am gmt) and there are only 467 on, with half them in rvr zones.

Does everyone just stay logged now and play the event instead?

Wed 9 Jun 2021 1:14 AM by ExcretusMaximus

NA action has been garbage for about 8 months.

Thu 10 Jun 2021 9:45 PM by Fugax

You will find them standing on DC west bridge next to each other (all three realms) dueling. And if you are a duo or anything remotely more than by yrself the whole gang (3 realms) will jump you and kill you...

Thu 10 Jun 2021 11:02 PM by omicidi

Who wants to play when all roaming groups listed and unlisted are meta alb groups; one high rr11 4/4 hib group, rest just a big blob of hib Zerg and one mid pug?

Thu 10 Jun 2021 11:08 PM by Riac

omicidi wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jun 2021 11:02 PM
Who wants to play when all roaming groups listed and unlisted are meta alb groups; one high rr11 4/4 hib group, rest just a big blob of hib Zerg and one mid pug?

Are you implying that zerg play is incredibly lazy and actually kills the action and this game would be considerably more fun if everyone in the zerg would just try and run around as a bunch of individual pug groups and fight the other pug groups? obv everyone is gonna lose to the high RR organized groups, but you gotta start somewhere, afk beating on doors isnt gonna make you better at the game.

Fri 11 Jun 2021 6:10 AM by Adwaenyth

Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jun 2021 11:08 PM
omicidi wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jun 2021 11:02 PM
Who wants to play when all roaming groups listed and unlisted are meta alb groups; one high rr11 4/4 hib group, rest just a big blob of hib Zerg and one mid pug?

Are you implying that zerg play is incredibly lazy and actually kills the action and this game would be considerably more fun if everyone in the zerg would just try and run around as a bunch of individual pug groups and fight the other pug groups? obv everyone is gonna lose to the high RR organized groups, but you gotta start somewhere, afk beating on doors isnt gonna make you better at the game.

I think the implication could as well be: "Running stongest meta funnels everyone else into zerg or out of RvR."

Fri 11 Jun 2021 6:38 AM by Sepplord

it probably would, but in the same argument, if all elite players put in actual effort to learn zerging, the game would probably work on a completely different level

Zerging is always seen as the lowskill environment, and in praxis it is...but if you think about it an organized 100 vs 100 requires far more skills and macro-organisation than an 8vs8. If you paid and trained 200people with strategic and military experience to fight against each other the battles and tactics they would pull off would probably be an amazing thing to watch. Zerging doesn't have a low skill-ceiling, it has one so high that no gamer really bothers to deal with it.

Not sure where i am going with this, just a mixture between conspiracy keanu and ten-guy meme with a sprinkle of sudden clarity clarence. I should get me my morning coffe

Fri 11 Jun 2021 7:44 AM by Astaa

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 6:38 AM
it probably would, but in the same argument, if all elite players put in actual effort to learn zerging, the game would probably work on a completely different level

Zerging is always seen as the lowskill environment, and in praxis it is...but if you think about it an organized 100 vs 100 requires far more skills and macro-organisation than an 8vs8. If you paid and trained 200people with strategic and military experience to fight against each other the battles and tactics they would pull off would probably be an amazing thing to watch. Zerging doesn't have a low skill-ceiling, it has one so high that no gamer really bothers to deal with it.

Not sure where i am going with this, just a mixture between conspiracy keanu and ten-guy meme with a sprinkle of sudden clarity clarence. I should get me my morning coffe

You are correct. Anyone can /stick and ignore orders, which is what zerging is half the time, but when it works and people follow instructions, it can be a beautiful thing and a decent leader can follow the flow of the fight and give out macro orders.

The difference is the margin of error, in an 8v8, small and 1v1, 1 mistake can lose the fight whereas zerging is a bit more forgiving.

I have no idea about NA time though, but Mid is struggling anyway with BG leaders in all time zones (and so is Alb to a lesser extent) because the realm appears to be split down the middle for some reason.

Fri 11 Jun 2021 7:49 AM by Adwaenyth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 6:38 AM
it probably would, but in the same argument, if all elite players put in actual effort to learn zerging, the game would probably work on a completely different level

Zerging is always seen as the lowskill environment, and in praxis it is...but if you think about it an organized 100 vs 100 requires far more skills and macro-organisation than an 8vs8. If you paid and trained 200people with strategic and military experience to fight against each other the battles and tactics they would pull off would probably be an amazing thing to watch. Zerging doesn't have a low skill-ceiling, it has one so high that no gamer really bothers to deal with it.

Not sure where i am going with this, just a mixture between conspiracy keanu and ten-guy meme with a sprinkle of sudden clarity clarence. I should get me my morning coffe

Yes and no. Most people are not interested in playing to the best possible level, just to play. Some will try to play to the best of their ability, some will try to play casually, some will try to play to grief others, some will try to play together, some will try to play alone.

Also getting killed all the time is no fun, and then a cycle of action and reaction starts:

If you steamroll everything 24/7 regardless of who or what that is, those on the recieving end will not like that. So they will do either one of the following consequences.

Get more people together (aka join the zerg)
Switch sides so that you do not run in the strongest setup as opponent (aka winning team joining)
Stop playing alltogether
Get a good enough group to beat that setup

It doesn't matter how large the group is in that scenario. Be it soloers, small man, 8 man or full zerg. If you play professionally enough so that you win almost all engagements, one of the points above will happen. In all likelyhood, considering that the majority of players like to play casually, the top listed points are way more likely than those on the bottom of the list.

The problem is, that this cycle is self-reenforcing. The more successful you are, the more often people will run into you (or others that follow your example). Thus the cycle self-reinforces and you will end up in a situation where everyone will be unhappy, because you will be forced into a style of play you do not want to play. Either because you play classes or gameplay you do not like or because you will have no one left to fight against. If you play like that all the time, you will end up in a situation where everyone either has to join the zerg or stops playing alltogether.

Countering that is a little difficult. The best solution would be, just do not play to the max unless you have a group of equal strength against you. Do not engage every fight you see, do not attack players that are clearly inferior to you. That would be, what we as players could do - but most likely never will. As human beings, we are all selfish one way or another. No, we are. We all are. We always were. You, me, everyone. It's our nature. It might sound blunt and unkind, but we all are to some degree selfish and we do not even recognize just how much we are because of that.
If we really wanted to break that cylce, it would require conscious and steady effort not to be selfish. That's why it is so difficult to not play to the max in a competetive environment like this game.

The alternative is to change the balance and rewards every once in a while when a playstyle gets too dominant, so that this kind of playstyle gets nerfed enough so that there are new competetive setups forced onto us from time to time. Then the people playing that will have to adapt to the new meta and switch once in a while to be top of the game.
That entails the same problem in a different variant to some degree. People will not like their favourite toy getting nerfed or others getting buffed. So changing the balance that way will also entail the same problem as people want diversity but at the same time do not want to change themselves too much... and as soon as enough people have adapted to that, we will be back to square one.

So unless we actively help each other having fun playing the game, the problem will persist.

Fri 11 Jun 2021 2:09 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 7:44 AM
Mid is struggling anyway with BG leaders in all time zones ... because the realm appears to be split down the middle for some reason.

Ego.

There are three big alliances, and all of them think their way is the best way and literally refuse to work with the others.

Sun 20 Jun 2021 6:38 PM by mattymc

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 2:09 PM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 7:44 AM
Mid is struggling anyway with BG leaders in all time zones ... because the realm appears to be split down the middle for some reason.

Ego.

There are three big alliances, and all of them think their way is the best way and literally refuse to work with the others.

Not even close to being remotely accurate NA time -- not sure there are even 3 alliances during EURO Prime, though there certainly is a lack of cooperation between 2 factions then -- or there as has been.

Action is pathetic for many reasons -- there is no 'ONE' thing...certainly many feel that RvR is ignored and you get more rewards doing other things so why bother. It certainly seems that the emphasis on PHOENIX is not centered on RvR; it shows the worst during the time with lower populations which corresponds to NA play time. <Again, there is no singular reason....>

Sun 20 Jun 2021 7:05 PM by CowwoC

I started in mid when i started playing on Phoenix and while grinding xp felt pretty okay, rvr was a different story. Now that's many moons ago and it still feels that way in midgard. In between i went hib and hib felt like heaven compared to mid. It does not matter which class or rank you are, you get a pug rvr group at least 8 out of 10 times. In mid you don't even need to bother asking for a group as a sneak or any other not wanted class. Shamys and Healer are rare, very rare and since Healer is way harder to play than cleric or druid, shamy feels dull to play compared to friar, bard or even warden - so that comes on top of that. After i went hib i went alb and alb felt like something in between hib and mid.

But mid always feels like a pit hole of snakes fighting each other. Not everyone in mid is like that, but it feels like there is a constant toxicity laying around just waiting to break through here and there. No clue if polemo went back alb and yes his complains were crazy sometimes, but he had a point - mids somehow refuse to work together other than hib and alb. There were over 60 peeps in bg but just 2-3fg were running with him and the rest was doing their stuff, mostly flags and coast guarding as usual.

No clue if the underdog realm bonus is still working but it should be reworked somehow. Maybe give pugs a small bonus for filling their group, give them a few rp even when they die so that they don't switch realms after one wipe, grant more rp when zergs fight each other and a small bonus to the zerg with less people so that zergs stop avoiding each other and just hit on empty tower/ keeps, stop with the flag stuff so that those people actually really have to participate in rvr to get rp, stop with the 8v8 and 1v1 rp farming events for the few "blessed" - are some points which would come to my mind.

Mon 21 Jun 2021 7:51 AM by byron

CowwoC wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jun 2021 7:05 PM
No clue if the underdog realm bonus is still working but it should be reworked somehow. Maybe give pugs a small bonus for filling their group, give them a few rp even when they die so that they don't switch realms after one wipe, grant more rp when zergs fight each other and a small bonus to the zerg with less people so that zergs stop avoiding each other and just hit on empty tower/ keeps, stop with the flag stuff so that those people actually really have to participate in rvr to get rp, stop with the 8v8 and 1v1 rp farming events for the few "blessed" - are some points which would come to my mind.

Someone find zerging very boring, especially with a melee class. Respect other play style as others need to respect yours.

Mon 21 Jun 2021 10:58 AM by Hattrick

I think the server population in general has just decreased in the last month or so. I have had other things that needed doing the last couple of days that prevented me playing, but I was periodically checking the server pop on the home page. The most I ever saw was on Saturday afternoon (eastern time) and it was only about 750 total players. When I first started playing here, back in February IIRC, the population peaks would usually exceed 1000 players. As I type this (7am eastern), there are 388 total players online which is really low even for this time of day. I know it's summer and game populations do tend to flag during those months when people have other things to do, but the amount of decline here is somewhat concerning.

Mon 21 Jun 2021 1:39 PM by soremir

The pop is declining because people play this game like jerks.

I spent the night getting chased down, stomped, and emoted by a BM-Bard combo hunting solos, and eventually was like "Why am I doing this? I haven't had fun here in months." That and stealth Zergs. And Power Rangers just going straight for bold and sitting there so we have no ports every night in NA primetime. And sins jumping you while you're trying to get a boat, vanishing 1v1, and emoting.

95% of my RVR interactions seem to be one of these four things, and I can't for the life of me imagine why anybody would log and spend their time playing any of those four mini-games.

Mon 21 Jun 2021 3:03 PM by stewbeedoo

I think the population is declining for a few reasons:
Covid-19 is coming to an end. Covid-19 created an artificial demand because we were all trapped inside and looking for things to do.
It is summer - population always temporarily dips this time of year.
The novelty of the server has worn off.

Mon 21 Jun 2021 3:48 PM by Magesty

I think there is still plenty of decent action to be found on NA times. Definitely feels like the frontiers are still very active and things are happening out there, but there seems to be a shift occurring.

The real difference I've noticed since the last two Playing Field events is the prevalence of low quality 5+ man groups making a point of hunting soloers/small mans. If the task is in, say, Breifine, and each realm has their own ports, there will inevitably be a group of unskilled casters & healers at Beno, DC, and Bled either straight up camping posterns/front doors or patrolling bridges and docks. I'm not sure it is arguable that they are there for any other purpose than to try to kill soloers and small mans. Casters have been so beefed up for the now non-existent 8v8 meta that it's nearly impossible to deal with a small group of them even if they have bad mechanics and positioning.

I haven't decided exactly how to feel about this/if it is actually a substantial problem, but it is definitely a change I've noticed.

Personally, I log off and play whatever other game I'm enjoying after a few runs of porting to Boldiam and taking the longer boat ride to die to another 5+ man caster group hunting soloers at some other location where groups of their size that would provide actual competition are unlikely to be.

Ultimately, I believe PvP gamers can be placed into two broad categories. Those that derive enjoyment only from "winning" regardless of how it happens and those that actually enjoy legitimate challenge and satisfaction of overcoming it. When there are too many of the former you get the type of emergent gameplay patterns we're starting to see during NA primetime. Oppressively buffed 5+ man caster groups are camping most areas, and after a few deaths most solo/small man players will choose to spend their time elsewhere, resulting in a dip in overall population.

I want very badly to play right now, and I still try whenever I sit down @ my computer to game, but unlike Euro primetime where action can be found in a lot of places that aren't the main thoroughfares (beno, dc, bled, EV) it is nearly impossible to both avoid these shitty groups and find other solo/small man players during NA primetime.

Mon 21 Jun 2021 5:00 PM by Astaa

I've pretty much given up soloing on hero, just not worth the bother. Population is toxic af. I pop out for a few runs before work and that's it. Nowhere else to go solo so have to put up with all the zergers.

Mon 21 Jun 2021 5:21 PM by ExcretusMaximus

It's almost as if a game designed around massive fights between three armies isn't conducive to a solo environment.

Who'd have thought?

Mon 21 Jun 2021 5:52 PM by Magesty

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jun 2021 5:21 PM
It's almost as if a game designed around massive fights between three armies isn't conducive to a solo environment.

Who'd have thought?

I have no expectations of an easy experience soloing or duoing, but the environment I’ve been noticing in the past few months is a bit different from what I’ve seen soloing over a couple decades and a number of different iterations of the game. Maybe I’ve been consistently lucky, but I’ve never seen a game state where there are low quality PuGs hunting soloers in every main zone all night every night in an “off time zone” like NA.

I fail to see how low quality PuGs spending entire evenings exclusively trying to kill soloers/XPers/whatever else fits into your 3 big armies narrative.

Did my description of these types of players hit too close to home?

Tue 22 Jun 2021 5:52 AM by Astaa

There is currently a fg of talentless albs running around Emain (task is Pennine), there are only 150odd people even in the frontier, all realms.

That is the standard of player we have atm, and people wonder why the population is crashing, lol. Proper race to the bottom.

Tue 22 Jun 2021 6:41 AM by Sepplord

Magesty wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jun 2021 3:48 PM
I think there is still plenty of decent action to be found on NA times. Definitely feels like the frontiers are still very active and things are happening out there, but there seems to be a shift occurring.

The real difference I've noticed since the last two Playing Field events is the prevalence of low quality 5+ man groups making a point of hunting soloers/small mans. If the task is in, say, Breifine, and each realm has their own ports, there will inevitably be a group of unskilled casters & healers at Beno, DC, and Bled either straight up camping posterns/front doors or patrolling bridges and docks. I'm not sure it is arguable that they are there for any other purpose than to try to kill soloers and small mans. Casters have been so beefed up for the now non-existent 8v8 meta that it's nearly impossible to deal with a small group of them even if they have bad mechanics and positioning.

I haven't decided exactly how to feel about this/if it is actually a substantial problem, but it is definitely a change I've noticed.

Personally, I log off and play whatever other game I'm enjoying after a few runs of porting to Boldiam and taking the longer boat ride to die to another 5+ man caster group hunting soloers at some other location where groups of their size that would provide actual competition are unlikely to be.

Ultimately, I believe PvP gamers can be placed into two broad categories. Those that derive enjoyment only from "winning" regardless of how it happens and those that actually enjoy legitimate challenge and satisfaction of overcoming it. When there are too many of the former you get the type of emergent gameplay patterns we're starting to see during NA primetime. Oppressively buffed 5+ man caster groups are camping most areas, and after a few deaths most solo/small man players will choose to spend their time elsewhere, resulting in a dip in overall population.

I want very badly to play right now, and I still try whenever I sit down @ my computer to game, but unlike Euro primetime where action can be found in a lot of places that aren't the main thoroughfares (beno, dc, bled, EV) it is nearly impossible to both avoid these shitty groups and find other solo/small man players during NA primetime.

what timeslot is this happening?
Me and my friends didn't play last weekend, but usually play friday or saturday and we haven't found a single 5-6man fight in a long time. Having a prevalence of smallmen groups cruising sounds great and much better than having meta-preset-8's doing the same.
Any shitty group of random players are best case for the serverpopulation as it allows you to fight and beat them with a similarly randomly thrown together group.

Tue 22 Jun 2021 8:13 AM by inoeth

CowwoC wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jun 2021 7:05 PM
No clue if the underdog realm bonus is still working but it should be reworked somehow. Maybe give pugs a small bonus for filling their group, give them a few rp even when they die so that they don't switch realms after one wipe, grant more rp when zergs fight each other and a small bonus to the zerg with less people so that zergs stop avoiding each other and just hit on empty tower/ keeps, stop with the flag stuff so that those people actually really have to participate in rvr to get rp, stop with the 8v8 and 1v1 rp farming events for the few "blessed" - are some points which would come to my mind.

its quite ridiculous to call 1v1 rp farming when all zergs do is farm smaller numbers....
what i dont get here is that ppl complain about there was no BG leader in mid but dont come to the point where they get the idea that they maybe could do the leader thing their own?! ... just want to afk stick and go to the forum and complain about ppl who just want to afk stick, proclaiming zerg play is the "skill" play in daoc ...

if you want something done, do it yourself and stop blaming others (8v8, 1v1) for your own faults.

omg lol so pathetic

Tue 22 Jun 2021 8:20 PM by Runental

Meanwhile Hibs take Boldiam for absolutely no Reason.. Gogo Smap, Reix & Co, this is how you "create" action over the last weeks and promote a healthy population 🤣

This was always a problem on this server...
I never understood the purpose of taking centerkeeps unless u wanna go for relics or break useless spire towers when you allrdy had a porter.
Especially on low pop times the traffic between bled---nott, Beno---berk, DC---Crim was always a good way keep action alive and have Inc most of the time.
Here it's just a stupid no reason port break mentality.

Tue 22 Jun 2021 8:43 PM by Hattrick

Hattrick wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jun 2021 10:58 AM
I think the server population in general has just decreased in the last month or so. I have had other things that needed doing the last couple of days that prevented me playing, but I was periodically checking the server pop on the home page. The most I ever saw was on Saturday afternoon (eastern time) and it was only about 750 total players. When I first started playing here, back in February IIRC, the population peaks would usually exceed 1000 players. As I type this (7am eastern), there are 388 total players online which is really low even for this time of day. I know it's summer and game populations do tend to flag during those months when people have other things to do, but the amount of decline here is somewhat concerning.

This morning when I checked server pop at about 6am eastern, alb and mid were in the 80s and hib had like 102. Not good. Maybe the server had just reset, I didn't notice. I hope that's the explanation.

Wed 23 Jun 2021 2:06 AM by Magesty

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jun 2021 6:41 AM
what timeslot is this happening?
Me and my friends didn't play last weekend, but usually play friday or saturday and we haven't found a single 5-6man fight in a long time. Having a prevalence of smallmen groups cruising sounds great and much better than having meta-preset-8's doing the same.
Any shitty group of random players are best case for the serverpopulation as it allows you to fight and beat them with a similarly randomly thrown together group.

8:00-10:30 CST Sun->Thursday. Just died to what I think was a 5-6 man, actually.

I usually play during the morning/day or late at night on the weekends. I'm not really sure what Friday and Saturday nights look like.

Fri 25 Jun 2021 11:58 PM by mattymc

Runental wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jun 2021 8:20 PM
Meanwhile Hibs take Boldiam for absolutely no Reason.. Gogo Smap, Reix & Co, this is how you "create" action over the last weeks and promote a healthy population 🤣

This was always a problem on this server...
I never understood the purpose of taking centerkeeps unless u wanna go for relics or break useless spire towers when you allrdy had a porter.
Especially on low pop times the traffic between bled---nott, Beno---berk, DC---Crim was always a good way keep action alive and have Inc most of the time.
Here it's just a stupid no reason port break mentality.

Pretty much it's because that is ALL 'RvR' is on this server -- it's been neglected; nothing for RvR is forthcoming, there is zero benefit to defense so RvR is basically PvE of keeps. Sadly a game designed for large scale RvR is a task game being tuned for small/8 manning --- it's free and, if you read the responses to various posts, you can tell it isn't gonna change.

Sat 26 Jun 2021 2:57 AM by gotwqqd

mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jun 2021 11:58 PM
Runental wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jun 2021 8:20 PM
Meanwhile Hibs take Boldiam for absolutely no Reason.. Gogo Smap, Reix & Co, this is how you "create" action over the last weeks and promote a healthy population 🤣

This was always a problem on this server...
I never understood the purpose of taking centerkeeps unless u wanna go for relics or break useless spire towers when you allrdy had a porter.
Especially on low pop times the traffic between bled---nott, Beno---berk, DC---Crim was always a good way keep action alive and have Inc most of the time.
Here it's just a stupid no reason port break mentality.

Pretty much it's because that is ALL 'RvR' is on this server -- it's been neglected; nothing for RvR is forthcoming, there is zero benefit to defense so RvR is basically PvE of keeps. Sadly a game designed for large scale RvR is a task game being tuned for small/8 manning --- it's free and, if you read the responses to various posts, you can tell it isn't gonna change.

Agree
All the pandering to 1v1 8v8 and other small man “events” or mechanics are hurting RvR far more than the playing field does….which seems like it may come to end by cryptic message.

Sat 26 Jun 2021 11:15 AM by Tyrlaan

Runental wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jun 2021 8:20 PM
Meanwhile Hibs take Boldiam for absolutely no Reason.. Gogo Smap, Reix & Co, this is how you "create" action over the last weeks and promote a healthy population 🤣

This was always a problem on this server...
I never understood the purpose of taking centerkeeps unless u wanna go for relics or break useless spire towers when you allrdy had a porter.
Especially on low pop times the traffic between bled---nott, Beno---berk, DC---Crim was always a good way keep action alive and have Inc most of the time.
Here it's just a stupid no reason port break mentality.

But there is a reason and if you were in the Hib BG you´d know. Boldiam or Glenlock staffed with Rangers means plenty RPs for those Rangers

Your gripe with missing these keeps is why they´re taken. Them being so valuable (to retake) is why they´re taken.

Also I don´t feel like for low pop times (i.e. at the end of the Euro zergs) the realm map has to somehow look sorted so that everybody can just port to Beno/Bled/DC or Bold/Glen/Nged and take boats from there (or do those meetings at the bridges). True, it´s less likely for towers (or keeps) to change owners in low pop times (they usually get retaken at the end of the night by the first Euros to form a retake BG) but NF was created as a fluid battlefield for that reason: if you´re missing ports, the fights will just shift to the area before like at the relic docks, between Rena and Bold or between Fensa and Glen.

Sat 26 Jun 2021 11:25 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jun 2021 11:15 AM
if you´re missing ports, the fights will just shift to the area before like at the relic docks, between Rena and Bold or between Fensa and Glen.

Maybe in a perfect world, but this isn't that.

All taking the central keep does is make a very large portion of the population look at the map, swear to themselves, and log off; "if you were in the [Alb] BG you´d know."

Sat 26 Jun 2021 11:50 AM by Tyrlaan

What Alb BG?

Sat 26 Jun 2021 1:33 PM by CowwoC

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jun 2021 8:13 AM
CowwoC wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jun 2021 7:05 PM
No clue if the underdog realm bonus is still working but it should be reworked somehow. Maybe give pugs a small bonus for filling their group, give them a few rp even when they die so that they don't switch realms after one wipe, grant more rp when zergs fight each other and a small bonus to the zerg with less people so that zergs stop avoiding each other and just hit on empty tower/ keeps, stop with the flag stuff so that those people actually really have to participate in rvr to get rp, stop with the 8v8 and 1v1 rp farming events for the few "blessed" - are some points which would come to my mind.

its quite ridiculous to call 1v1 rp farming when all zergs do is farm smaller numbers....
what i dont get here is that ppl complain about there was no BG leader in mid but dont come to the point where they get the idea that they maybe could do the leader thing their own?! ... just want to afk stick and go to the forum and complain about ppl who just want to afk stick, proclaiming zerg play is the "skill" play in daoc ...

if you want something done, do it yourself and stop blaming others (8v8, 1v1) for your own faults.

omg lol so pathetic

I said 1v1 events not 1v1 in general, you have to read more carefully.

You really don't get it? Maybe you missed the x posts about it where people pointed out that many people tried exactly this - but oh well, the pseudo mid elite is to stubborn to follow anyone they don't know or don't like and rather fight within their own lines. This has absolute nothing to do with no one stepping up in mid and try to lead. The whole realm is just split in people who actually don't care who they follow, like how it is at the other two realms, and then those who always want to shit on anything and being toxic.

Also pretty pathetic of you to try to shift the reason why mid sucks at organizing a zerg and to defend their border to the people who actually participate in rvr other than coast guarding. Nobody would mind if the pseudo elite would contribute in anything to help the goal of the zerg, like cutting defenders off or what ever - but nope flags for life. GG

I'm not saying that zerg is the way to go in any case and it's pretty dull if there are no defender or one zerg is simply too big, but at times there is zero effort in either defending or attacking in mid, not because nobody wants to lead, but because almost nobody wants to follow. Last seen when polemo tried several times, even decs can't always get the numbers o jeff and others before him.

Sat 26 Jun 2021 1:35 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jun 2021 11:50 AM
What Alb BG?

I know you're trying to be funny, but that's exactly my point. The fact that you (and a multitude of others) think it's funny is one of the many contributing factors to the death of North American action.

Domination is only fun for one side, and when it is total and complete, you're looking at a lot of people who just can't be bothered to play a game, which is supposed to be fun, but is nothing but frustrating.

So keep taking those central keeps and bottling up entire realms in their relic towns. In the end, you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

Sat 26 Jun 2021 2:08 PM by Tyrlaan

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jun 2021 1:35 PM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jun 2021 11:50 AM
What Alb BG?

I know you're trying to be funny, but that's exactly my point. The fact that you (and a multitude of others) think it's funny is one of the many contributing factors to the death of North American action.

Domination is only fun for one side, and when it is total and complete, you're looking at a lot of people who just can't be bothered to play a game, which is supposed to be fun, but is nothing but frustrating.

So keep taking those central keeps and bottling up entire realms in their relic towns. In the end, you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

Actually I was just commenting on half of what you wrote like you always do, completely taking the post out of context. I wasn´t trying to be funny but telling the obvious.

Mr. Paper-DAoC, wouldn´t that be your place to tell these Albs to group up, coordinate, retake that keep vs. those Power Rangers and stun nukers who can hold a keep vs. low numbers so easily? Why would they log (or play Hib) instead if they could be just as successful if only they were as elite as you are?

The problem isn´t that the map isn´t sorted after the Euro BGs left. The problem isn´t that the many people playing Hib form a BG to take keeps to farm the other realms and to keep these keeps low con (they are favored for relic placement after all). The problem is that only a few die-hard players play Alb and Mid in those low-pop times and of course they lose to a Hib BG.

Sun 27 Jun 2021 11:11 AM by snaw

Really doesn't help that Philosopher Kings run that quiet time, they kill any momentum mid (I assume alb same) get going and people think why bother? I got to stage now I don't go out when they're on, bunch of RR12's and 11s steamrolling everyone isn't a lot of fun. It's making people quit, personally thinking same, I play for fun, not to be food for high level l33t players on easy mode cause they're too good and too powerful for the small amount playing same timezone.

Sun 27 Jun 2021 7:18 PM by Forlornhope

snaw wrote: ↑
Sun 27 Jun 2021 11:11 AM
Really doesn't help that Philosopher Kings run that quiet time, they kill any momentum mid (I assume alb same) get going and people think why bother? I got to stage now I don't go out when they're on, bunch of RR12's and 11s steamrolling everyone isn't a lot of fun. It's making people quit, personally thinking same, I play for fun, not to be food for high level l33t players on easy mode cause they're too good and too powerful for the small amount playing same timezone.

Funny thing is, while they were getting their RR they basically rented out there accounts on a schedule for other people to play. So their accounts were running 24/7 for about a year until they made the no sharing account rules. But, they're not the only ones who're rr11-12 who run during dead hours farming nothing but solos/duos. But the players themselves aren't special or good, what they did is similar to a kid using his mom's credit card in a pay to win game imo. Surprised they're back, last I heard they claimed they "beat" this game lol.

Mon 28 Jun 2021 10:41 AM by Runental

Yup, GG, all those PKs, Black Fags, rotting Keep Rangers, Relic Hoppers,- you almost beat the game.

Mon 28 Jun 2021 10:52 AM by Ceen

Runental wrote: ↑
Mon 28 Jun 2021 10:41 AM
Yup, GG, all those PKs, Black Fags, rotting Keep Rangers, Relic Hoppers,- you almost beat the game.

I really question their motivation in doing this stuff not for a week or a month but for years.
From time to time I log in in the morning and everytime I see bantam grp at beno yet again. Kinda autistic.

Mon 28 Jun 2021 10:52 AM by Irkeno

Runental wrote: ↑
Mon 28 Jun 2021 10:41 AM
Yup, GG, all those PKs, Black Fags, rotting Keep Rangers, Relic Hoppers,- you almost beat the game.

It’s almost as if each of these issues were pointed out before it had this effect.

Although when u saw black flag getting roflstomped in the rr1 event week vs regular 8mans you understand why they do what they do.

Sosing in (TWICE) on a 2 bard hib tanker and getting dismantled in under a minute to a pug 🤷‍♂️ Theres a reason they dont list and just hunt solos with very good ‘game sense’…. Invader incoming 🙄

Dont get me started on the archer gangs. Playing field on last night and 5 of them plinking solos at dc bridge for 4krp/hr. So sad to see.

Shame though that its basically reduced to this now

Tue 29 Jun 2021 12:48 PM by Siouxsie

Heh. PK came back? Why?
To bully others to stop playing. Between that and the Hib BG's bully tactics of taking middle keeps and those idiot ranger groups.. it's just not worth logging on.
Soon, the hibs will be roaming an empty frontier looking for enemies but there will be none because they got tired of the crazy imbalance of the server population and found something better to do.

Tue 29 Jun 2021 12:57 PM by Astaa

They were roaming around an empty emain not so long ago, not entirely sure why.

Tue 29 Jun 2021 12:58 PM by Sepplord

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Jun 2021 12:48 PM
Heh. PK came back? Why?
To bully others to stop playing.

Is there more behind that conspiracy theory?
What benefit would PK have to "kill the server"?
Wouldn't it make more sense that they got bored of whatever they were doing, and since they had a break they decided, why not stomp around phoenix again for a bit?

Wed 30 Jun 2021 1:07 AM by Tyrlaan

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Jun 2021 12:48 PM
Heh. PK came back? Why?
To bully others to stop playing. Between that and the Hib BG's bully tactics of taking middle keeps and those idiot ranger groups.. it's just not worth logging on.
Soon, the hibs will be roaming an empty frontier looking for enemies but there will be none because they got tired of the crazy imbalance of the server population and found something better to do.

Again, it isn´t the players´responsibility or obligation to somehow show pity or mercy for the other realms having low numbers or keeping their ports intact so that the duelers can get to their docks and bridges easier (smallmans would just port). If Hib can muster a BG NA primetime while the other realms cannot, they should by all means take crucial keeps (if only to keep them low con) or relics if they can. They shouldn´t run flags or roam to kill soloers and smallmans just because that´s the only thing smaller numbers can do.

Not too long ago, NA primetime was an Oad*n zerg cutting all kind of ports and (re)taking keeps and relics while Alb was basically non-existent and Hib had a couple more who could usually just hold onto the relics (while losing other keeps and ports). Runental and you didn´t complain back then with numbers on your side even though looking at /rw surely could have made enemy players just log off instead of taking boats from the relic docks to throw themselves at a Mid BG. And Giosakis/Polemo was notorious for "flexing" center keeps to keep them low con just because he could.

In fact, I think that we still have about the same NA players and half of Reix´ BG is former Mid BG players who just happened to realize that the grass has been made much greener with the last rounds of changes (it was to be expected with buffs to one realm and nerfs to the others - to think otherwise requires quite the denial). It isn´t their responsibility to compensate for balance that´s been f*cked up and somehow hold themselves back while playing. To expect that is almost like expecting not to be attacked because somebody could quit over being killed.

Wed 30 Jun 2021 7:45 AM by pako1990

In Na time we started to take central keep because that was only the way to have fun with some defenders inside... we took the keeps also meanwhile inside there were 20-30 defenders inside, and sometimes they were also more than us but they werent able to kill us in a right way... after that we started to take everything to evade that some bg leaders in the eu morning like fernandapower started the bg and take everything without any problem. Now in the eu morning there is on hib fernando (hib bg leader) and pk, so if you see we are not taking any central keep because there isnt any motivation, we've attacked the keeps also when there is inside a good amount of defenders. If you see 10 defenders (or 3 rangers) inside the keep meanwhile you are in 50+ you leave because you are able to take only empty keep (not all time but this happens most of the time).
I also remember when there was around a bg mid with 70/80+ players that left the keeps with only 1 grp inside. we are just organized and our goal was to have fun and some time ago to dominate. there are also other reasons that go according to the moment that I am not here to list
Paska

Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:18 AM by snaw

Personally find that super weak, where's the challenge in having double the numbers of everyone else combined with 2 high RR groups inc PK killing any resistance that flutters up? Can't respect that style of play or all the easy mode players who've flocked to hib to join in on it.

Wed 30 Jun 2021 9:28 AM by pako1990

snaw wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:18 AM
Personally find that super weak, where's the challenge in having double the numbers of everyone else combined with 2 high RR groups inc PK killing any resistance that flutters up? Can't respect that style of play or all the easy mode players who've flocked to hib to join in on it.

I can speak only for me, I have toons only on hib. the things for me it's changed when reix went on hib and started the bg on hib. In that period in na time was up only 1 bg (mid side) and i remember that we wiped them also in 30vs60 in some situation... only after some weeks we had more people than other but for me it's not the amount of the people, in general is also the quality and how you setup the grps

Wed 30 Jun 2021 12:45 PM by snaw

pako1990 wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Jun 2021 9:28 AM
snaw wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:18 AM
Personally find that super weak, where's the challenge in having double the numbers of everyone else combined with 2 high RR groups inc PK killing any resistance that flutters up? Can't respect that style of play or all the easy mode players who've flocked to hib to join in on it.
I can speak only for me, I have toons only on hib. the things for me it's changed when reix went on hib and started the bg on hib. In that period in na time was up only 1 bg (mid side) and i remember that we wiped them also in 30vs60 in some situation... only after some weeks we had more people than other but for me it's not the amount of the people, in general is also the quality and how you setup the grps

Well no bg in mid that hour, was some semblance of one for that spell with Polemo but now it's a ghostland. Lucky to get a group to defend, outnumbered by 2/3 to 1 in the frontier at least (Half mid sit in upp now AFK), no less the high RR groups that regularily wipe any retake effort before it starts and no one wants to go out to be food for PK. No raum loops, no raids, DS grps take forever to form & not much 8 man. Don't blame you but game is dying in mid, people quitting or leaving. That's got nothing to do with tactics, all the tactics in the world can't beat hib right now.

Wed 30 Jun 2021 4:51 PM by Siouxsie

snaw wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Jun 2021 12:45 PM
pako1990 wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Jun 2021 9:28 AM
snaw wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:18 AM
Personally find that super weak, where's the challenge in having double the numbers of everyone else combined with 2 high RR groups inc PK killing any resistance that flutters up? Can't respect that style of play or all the easy mode players who've flocked to hib to join in on it.
I can speak only for me, I have toons only on hib. the things for me it's changed when reix went on hib and started the bg on hib. In that period in na time was up only 1 bg (mid side) and i remember that we wiped them also in 30vs60 in some situation... only after some weeks we had more people than other but for me it's not the amount of the people, in general is also the quality and how you setup the grps

Well no bg in mid that hour, was some semblance of one for that spell with Polemo but now it's a ghostland. Lucky to get a group to defend, outnumbered by 2/3 to 1 in the frontier at least (Half mid sit in upp now AFK), no less the high RR groups that regularily wipe any retake effort before it starts and no one wants to go out to be food for PK. No raum loops, no raids, DS grps take forever to form & not much 8 man. Don't blame you but game is dying in mid, people quitting or leaving. That's got nothing to do with tactics, all the tactics in the world can't beat hib right now.

Basically, nerfing the hell out of Midgard and beefing up Hib is what's caused this.
All in the name of "8v8" balance. It's no wonder no one wants to play Mid any more.

Thu 1 Jul 2021 7:03 AM by Sepplord

Is the 8vs8 scene healthy at least?
Or is that dieing too?

If the GvG-scene is prospering then lamenting the server state because the zergs aren't a balanced population is futile anyways

Thu 1 Jul 2021 7:14 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 1 Jul 2021 7:03 AM
Is the 8vs8 scene healthy at least?

No idea about EU time, but in NA time it's non-existent. There are guilds that run around roaming as 8 (Sparkle Motion, Legacy, Goldcloaks, Philatelists), but they're not what anyone would call "8-man guilds" traditionally. All of the traditional "respect each other" groups are gone (which I think is healthier than the elitist groups were, but that's not the question).

Thu 1 Jul 2021 7:38 AM by snaw

There's nothing going on, it's dying and when you have a population of 2:1, mostly selfish players only interested in themselves and collecting RP at the expense of long term server health, the exodus will continue.

Personally I don't get it, you've got alb scared to attack hib, hib focussed on mid day after day and super high realm rank running round ganking anything that even peeks out in the frontier. You've won if the intent is to crush another realm entirely and have folk quit.

Well done, enjoy the empty northern wastelands.

Thu 1 Jul 2021 2:50 PM by Wakefield

The alb/hib double team just to take MID keeps when Polemo/PIlz had ample opportunities to take their own realms relics back from each other and no, they decided to roflstomp mid killed it for me.

Constant bashing on undefended doors for easy rps and actively avoiding each other was the death knell for the server, since that time, the server population dropped more and more, only spiking for the event, which was designed as a catch up for people to have fun. But that ended up spoilt by people who decided to use it to batter everything in sight with optimal setups.

I was the biggest defender of this server, logging on daily. Now I log on once every month to pay rent and if I feel frisky, craft some stuff at below cost to help those Mids who still decide to play.

One realm dominating leads to two things. People either quit(like me) or join the winning realm as you still get char progression by hitting empty keeps

Thu 1 Jul 2021 5:35 PM by mattymc

Wakefield wrote: ↑
Thu 1 Jul 2021 2:50 PM
The alb/hib double team just to take MID keeps when Polemo/PIlz had ample opportunities to take their own realms relics back from each other and no, they decided to roflstomp mid killed it for me.

Constant bashing on undefended doors for easy rps and actively avoiding each other was the death knell for the server, since that time, the server population dropped more and more, only spiking for the event, which was designed as a catch up for people to have fun. But that ended up spoilt by people who decided to use it to batter everything in sight with optimal setups.

I was the biggest defender of this server, logging on daily. Now I log on once every month to pay rent and if I feel frisky, craft some stuff at below cost to help those Mids who still decide to play.

One realm dominating leads to two things. People either quit(like me) or join the winning realm as you still get char progression by hitting empty keeps

It'[s more profitable to PvE for RP -- only the Devs can fix things and they won't or don't believe they can...it's simply not an RvR server ...

Fri 2 Jul 2021 6:19 AM by Sepplord

mattymc wrote: ↑
Thu 1 Jul 2021 5:35 PM
It'[s more profitable to PvE for RP -- only the Devs can fix things and they won't or don't believe they can...it's simply not an RvR server ...

It isn't though, fighting at keeps gives good RP
There is a thing that is much more important to a lot of people than just making RPs. And that is not losing/dieing. (Or maybe it is just to make MORE RP than the other, which leads to the not dieing mentality)
So man players would rather not fight at all, than take a risk and take a suboptimal fight. And there is not much that can change that mindset.

Fri 2 Jul 2021 5:13 PM by mattymc

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Jul 2021 6:19 AM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Thu 1 Jul 2021 5:35 PM
It'[s more profitable to PvE for RP -- only the Devs can fix things and they won't or don't believe they can...it's simply not an RvR server ...

It isn't though, fighting at keeps gives good RP
There is a thing that is much more important to a lot of people than just making RPs. And that is not losing/dieing. (Or maybe it is just to make MORE RP than the other, which leads to the not dieing mentality)
So man players would rather not fight at all, than take a risk and take a suboptimal fight. And there is not much that can change that mindset.

Fighting at keeps are advantageous to some realms, but it is skewed horribly and the defense bonuses are pitiful. Ultimately, it is more beneficial for the larger zerg just to PvE a keep, even if it is PvE'ing keeps in a realm with nothing <relics> as opposed to fighting or trying, in certain cases, to get their own relics back. Realm v Realm really doesn't much exist in a game that was built SPECIFICALLY for that and, imo, when RvR is healthy, all forms of fighting are healthy.

Mon 5 Jul 2021 6:18 PM by Siouxsie

Top 50 RP earners last 48 hours (3 - 5 July):
23 Hibs - 46%
21 Albs - 42%
5 Mids - 10%

Top 50 RP earners last week:
27 Hibs - 54%
13 Albs - 26%
10 Mids - 20%
(Top 3 RP earners were all Hibs - Philsopher Kingz)

Mon 5 Jul 2021 9:30 PM by gotwqqd

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Jul 2021 6:18 PM
Top 50 RP earners last 48 hours (3 - 5 July):
23 Hibs - 46%
21 Albs - 42%
5 Mids - 10%

Top 50 RP earners last week:
27 Hibs - 54%
13 Albs - 26%
10 Mids - 20%
(Top 3 RP earners were all Hibs - Philsopher Kingz)

So
What can you derive from these numbers?

Tue 6 Jul 2021 9:10 AM by Siouxsie

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Jul 2021 9:30 PM
Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Jul 2021 6:18 PM
Top 50 RP earners last 48 hours (3 - 5 July):
23 Hibs - 46%
21 Albs - 42%
5 Mids - 10%

Top 50 RP earners last week:
27 Hibs - 54%
13 Albs - 26%
10 Mids - 20%
(Top 3 RP earners were all Hibs - Philsopher Kingz)
So
What can you derive from these numbers?

Midgard RVR is such a small slice of RPs.
The server is heavily biased in favour of Hibernia and to a lesser extent, Albion.

I would log onto Mid, thinking: "Hey maybe it'll be different, maybe I can have some fun here."
Only to find the same roaming groups, the same high RR stealthers camping the same places.
Just not fun to play on Midgard any more.

A start would be for the devs to reverse the Midgard nerfs and get rid of all the little gifties they gave the Hibs,
but they won't do that. They won't listen to Mid players and they won't listen to anyone but a small, loud minority of
Hib players.

Congrats, team.. you're killing the server by making it an almost completely one-sided game.

Tue 6 Jul 2021 10:39 AM by

Uthred

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Jul 2021 9:10 AM
Midgard RVR is such a small slice of RPs.
The server is heavily biased in favour of Hibernia and to a lesser extent, Albion.

I would log onto Mid, thinking: "Hey maybe it'll be different, maybe I can have some fun here."
Only to find the same roaming groups, the same high RR stealthers camping the same places.
Just not fun to play on Midgard any more.

A start would be for the devs to reverse the Midgard nerfs and get rid of all the little gifties they gave the Hibs,
but they won't do that. They won't listen to Mid players and they won't listen to anyone but a small, loud minority of
Hib players.

Congrats, team.. you're killing the server by making it an almost completely one-sided game.

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Dec 2020 9:10 AM
Since it's useless to deny and any actions contra to the narrative are ignored, from this point forward any claims of bias against or for a certain realm will see the post deleted and the person permanently muted in the forum, really cba anymore to care about that.

Congratz, a very well deserved forum mute.

Tue 6 Jul 2021 12:46 PM by LolaEbolah

Just here to drop a brief testimonial. My name is Loola and I haven’t played in months, not because of realm imbalance or buffs or nerfs or style changes or events that (imo) run too often. I can deal with all those things.

What caused me to stop logging in is the team that mutes players with any criticism they don’t like. I’ve been muted twice for responding to friendly banter in /advice after I guess there was a warning that anyone continuing the conversation would be muted. (I had just logged in both times and had not seen that)

So, naturally I log into the forum and ask in suggestions for the implementation of a general chat. I get shouted down on that front and spoken down to as if I’m a petulant child who just wants to break rules. I’m told that general chat can only happen in guilds and private messages, and that if you want to speak to the community as a whole, the proper way is to log into the forum and do it there.

Then, you see people on the forum addressing what they see as legitimate grievances, whether or not you agree with them.

And those people get permanently muted.

I’ve never been a part of an mmo community where community is so heavily discouraged, and as a result it’s soured me to Phoenix to the point that I’ve fallen back. I’ll always be in love with DAOC in a way that no other game can really fulfill. But, at this point, I’ll wait for the rise of the next free shard.

Hope to see you guys there! 💜

Tue 6 Jul 2021 1:35 PM by Sepplord

LolaEbolah wrote: Then, you see people on the forum addressing what they see as legitimate grievances, whether or not you agree with them.

And those people get permanently muted.

I’ve never been a part of an mmo community where community is so heavily discouraged, and as a result it’s soured me to Phoenix to the point that I’ve fallen back. I’ll always be in love with DAOC in a way that no other game can really fulfill. But, at this point, I’ll wait for the rise of the next free shard.

Hope to see you guys there! 💜

To be fair there is a huge difference between accusations of bias and adressing legitimate grievances:

"Hib is OP and too strong. The Buffs were unneeded and should be reverted" <<- legit complaint (if true o not other discussion, but noone gets muted for this)

"Devs only listen to hib, and don't care for mid at all" <<-- Bias accusation that was tolerated for years, but they eventually got sick of constantly reading unconstructive insults like that and decided that the forum is a nice place without such people contributing

To be honest, i was surprised to see that mute, but i welcome rules being enforced.
There's enough useless mudslinging on the forums as it is.

I have disagreed with and directly called out devs about stuff i disliked many times, yet i am still allowed to participate. I have had my fair share of rants and a lot of stuff that wasn't constructive myself. I bet some of my comments have gotten annoyed eye-rolling when gruenes read them. Yet i am not muted.

An unwarranted chatban ingame definitely sucks, and being treated like a child when you question it shouldn't happen. But i don't have the details of how it happened, and mistakes happen when humans do things. When you are suddenly dealing with hundreds of complaints in your free time, i can see a GM overreacting or being dismissive to someone wrongfully.
Funnily i just saw that you posted that story also on the daoc-reddit, so you know what kind of attitude and names the staff gets to deal with regularly. Being called Nazis, or communist, powertripping maniacs, mentally ill people, etc...
It is natural that they might sometimes hit "the problem" with a hammer, and sometimes that hammer crushes a bystander
It is the cost we carry as a player, while they carry all other mental costs associated with running the server

Tue 6 Jul 2021 2:07 PM by

Beckett

LolaEbolah wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Jul 2021 12:46 PM
Just here to drop a brief testimonial. My name is Loola and I haven’t played in months, not because of realm imbalance or buffs or nerfs or style changes or events that (imo) run too often. I can deal with all those things.

What caused me to stop logging in is the team that mutes players with any criticism they don’t like. I’ve been muted twice for responding to friendly banter in /advice after I guess there was a warning that anyone continuing the conversation would be muted. (I had just logged in both times and had not seen that)

So, naturally I log into the forum and ask in suggestions for the implementation of a general chat. I get shouted down on that front and spoken down to as if I’m a petulant child who just wants to break rules. I’m told that general chat can only happen in guilds and private messages, and that if you want to speak to the community as a whole, the proper way is to log into the forum and do it there.

Then, you see people on the forum addressing what they see as legitimate grievances, whether or not you agree with them.

And those people get permanently muted.

I’ve never been a part of an mmo community where community is so heavily discouraged, and as a result it’s soured me to Phoenix to the point that I’ve fallen back. I’ll always be in love with DAOC in a way that no other game can really fulfill. But, at this point, I’ll wait for the rise of the next free shard.

Hope to see you guys there! 💜

What happens is players break the rules and when they are caught post comments such as this which do not accurately reflect the true events. The posts are often twisted and distorted only loosely based on what really happened. Players with multiaccounts (eh lolaebolah or should i call you lolaebola? looks like you have been living two lives there, and yes we have known for some time) vehemently denying it, yet we have 100% proof of this. Players who post on the forums and discord in an aggressive manner often insulting staff or other players. Or even playing the victim card when they have raised points/asked questions and did not recieve the answer they wanted.

You are of course referring to this thread
https://forum.playphoenix.online/get-involved/suggestions/25203-recent-uptick-in-mutes-in-game
Where rational responses were given to you by all staff concerned. You attempted to make it look like staff handed out mutes at a whim and muted lots of players on a daily basis. Answers were given which clarified this, yet you continued, why? Because you can not accept that we will not allow you to witter on endlessly about non relevant topics in game on advice channels.

You are again implying that we do not encourage community, yet we have involved players in the process of the future development of the server, encouraging them to contribute and discuss planned changes. There are ample channels for players to discuss none game subjects, such as guild/alliance/chat/battlegroups without the need for it to spill over into other channels that are there for specific reasons.

Players who get muted or banned in discord or the forums are banned for good reasons, not because we disagree with them. Once they start insulting staff or other players, posting comments that are toxic and hateful or otherwise transgressing the boundaries of acceptable behaviour they are detrimental to the community and are dealt with. If we did not moderate in this manner then discord/forums/game channels would become unbearable for the vast majority of normal players.

Tue 6 Jul 2021 2:13 PM by borodino1812

I play all three realms, and my quibbles are mostly with individual classes, but what has stopped me from playing recently has nothing to do with that. It is a mix of summer coming, covid restrictions being lifted, and the server growing old.

The motivation to log on simply isn't there at the moment.

Tue 6 Jul 2021 2:53 PM by LolaEbolah

Did…. Did you delete my response to your accusations?

Tue 6 Jul 2021 3:00 PM by

Beckett

LolaEbolah wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Jul 2021 2:53 PM
Did…. Did you delete my response to your accusations?

Yes... Yes I did, and they werent accusations. Please do not distort what i have said by misrepresenting them
What you said in your post was untrue, you were putting words into my mouth.

Tue 6 Jul 2021 3:04 PM by LolaEbolah

So, people only get to see your side and when I defend myself, it’s taken down.

You know, that tracks. I actually shouldn’t be surprised.

Tue 6 Jul 2021 7:06 PM by mattymc

No offense but , let's not get off track with who said what when....NA action is pitiful and, IMO, RvR is basically PvE for RP. The question is ... will there be anything done to try and change this? It has seemed by other responses to similar inquiries on other threads that there will not be and the server is what it is....

Tue 6 Jul 2021 7:20 PM by boridi

For the record, I /ignored Loola on some of my characters because I got tired of /reg turning into a chat group that had nothing to do with RvR. The "chatting" can quickly get out of control, so the GMs have to do something before it turns into a Twitch stream chat of racism/profanity/gore.

Wed 7 Jul 2021 5:05 AM by Moondragon

Do developers/GMs/PeopleInCharge acknowledge that there is a problem when one realm can amass a 150-man battlegroup while the other two realms might be able to amass half that at best? It seems to happen daily around EU prime-time. In game I call it the green tidal wave. You can try to stand against the giant zerg, but it's pointless. It's also frustrating trying to get people to rally and defend against the Hibernian zerg, knowing you're going to get crushed. People complain in /region, or /advice, or the forums and say nasty things simply because it doesn't seem like you acknowledge this issue. And frankly, they don't mind the bans because the game isn't fun when one realm can just create a giant 150 man army and crush your realm. Being banned or muted to them isn't a big deal if the game isn't worth it, hence you're seeing more of it. Those are the vocal ones; many others simply log off or log in less often.

Of course, you might argue that the players need to fix it. Some Hibernian players have gone to other realms because they found it utterly boring stomping over enemies with double (or triple) the numbers, but unfortunately not enough have switched realms. It seems that the leveling events are simply allowing people easier access to switch to Hibernia. I don't have any data, but just looking at how large the battlegroups are, it seems reasonable.

In the end, players simply respond to the environment developers provide in the game. This is why certain bonuses are provided as incentives or task zones, because players respond to those bonuses. Perhaps the existing set of bonuses aren't sufficient to get people to switch realms. Nobody wants losing to become more effective than winning, and nobody wants to be afraid that their success will result in future nerfs. There simply needs to be some kind of effective bonus put into place to convince some people from an overpopulated realm to switch. The current bonuses aren't cutting it. A more balanced three realm server would make the game more fun for the casual player, which is needed for the server's long-term health. I hope you (the people in charge) are giving this some serious thought.

On a personal note, I've switched realms twice, both with the hope of improving the server. The first time I left Albion (with many others) to go to Midgard, which rarely had a sizeable battlegroup in the frontier. We hoped a more balanced 3-way fights would improve the server. But the Hibernian battlegroups just kept getting bigger, and because many had left Albion to go to Midgard, the Albion battlegroup couldn't hold back Hibernia either. So, eventually some of us that went to Mid decided to at least go back to Albion and try and stop Hibernia. There was no in-game bonus to switching realms, we did it to try ourselves to balance the server, but all the while Hibernia's battlegroup continues to grow. The fact is, hoping players can make a difference in balancing the server only affects it on the margin. We need a much larger intervention to help balance the server, and only developers/GMs/PeopleInCharge can make that happen.

Wed 7 Jul 2021 10:09 PM by kmaschek

Moondragon wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Jul 2021 5:05 AM
Do developers/GMs/PeopleInCharge acknowledge that there is a problem

They do, albion now has some archer groups for themself and this playstyle gets really out of hand...
now we got changes to blockmechanics...
tens of thousands dead albs and mids over the last 10 months.
Im pretty sure ignoring this trend for so long led to this.

On hib you were safe from those grps.
So people switched realms or stopped playing. I myself took a couple months off. And looking at the situation with the bg leaders swapping around the realms and try to rally people to get killed by the meanwhile rr12 archerzerg.
Speaking for myself, as a pure bg player. I rather find entertainment elsewhere and i rarely log in to play anymore.

MfG
Orsene

Thu 8 Jul 2021 8:05 AM by Astaa

Not tried the new group block mechanics, had better things to do last night (Come on England! Great game, Denmark, tough opposition!)) But it's a big change for the archery game and as someone that plays both heavy tank and archer, it's a very interesting new mechanic.

Archers might think it's the end, but it shouldn't be. Select better targets, even focus the tank down, and you will still kill, just not so indiscriminately and not so quickly. Anyone can see that archer zergs were having a negative effect on numbers.

This should have been done months ago instead of the heavy-handed nerfs and I would like to see archer damage now increased again, not perhaps up to the heights it was before but somewhere in between, maybe even another volley re-work, shorten the timer maybe, allow volley arrows to pass through the new block mechanic or something.

Thu 8 Jul 2021 9:02 AM by borodino1812

Astaa wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Jul 2021 8:05 AM
Not tried the new group block mechanics, had better things to do last night (Come on England! Great game, Denmark, tough opposition!)) But it's a big change for the archery game and as someone that plays both heavy tank and archer, it's a very interesting new mechanic.

Archers might think it's the end, but it shouldn't be. Select better targets, even focus the tank down, and you will still kill, just not so indiscriminately and not so quickly. Anyone can see that archer zergs were having a negative effect on numbers.

This should have been done months ago instead of the heavy-handed nerfs and I would like to see archer damage now increased again, not perhaps up to the heights it was before but somewhere in between, maybe even another volley re-work, shorten the timer maybe, allow volley arrows to pass through the new block mechanic or something.

It was a dive wot won it. Well done Sterling.....

Fri 9 Jul 2021 1:29 AM by Tyrlaan

Astaa wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Jul 2021 8:05 AM
Not tried the new group block mechanics, had better things to do last night (Come on England! Great game, Denmark, tough opposition!)) But it's a big change for the archery game and as someone that plays both heavy tank and archer, it's a very interesting new mechanic.

Actually we´re back to square zero balance-wise (keep in mind they also block GTAE). I mean there used to be a time when PBT was useful against archers. Until they thought it was practically keeping archers from doing any damage or enough damage to drop targets. Then they added mechanics to penetrate it. Then they improved damage. Now they´re adding mechanics to passively (!) PBAE block EVERY arrow for group members. No power cost, no ways to by-pass it, just invite a class to act as a passive block bot.

The pendulum keeps swinging back and forth I guess. Luckily I can just play the realms and classes which get buffed not nerfed.

Fri 9 Jul 2021 1:33 AM by Dakkhon

I have 4 archers and this "archer " problem that people are crying over I have not seen. What I do see is a bunch of solos crying about being shot at during their epeen fights in a well trafficked area and groups bitching because their casters are being interrupted while fighting another group. These archer zergs that apparently are literally destroying groups by themselves must be able to do this while still in stealth mode lol. These changes they have implemented imo are just signs they just dont want archers on the servers. Well good job you may just get your wish but you will also lose players....and that is currently a problem as we speak but for other reasons. Just change the message on this server to hack and slash only with some magic.

To be honest where ever these archer groups are I hope they get even more archers to group up and do as much damage as possible if they are going to make it that hard to play them. I 99.99999999999% solo on all my archers or at least 2. The scout is in a horrible place and my other 2 just outshine him 4 RR lower. So at RR7L4 the scout is and has been retired. So if I want to help my realm out and start shooting these OP him healers or casters or alb casters...going to be pretty much useless. Thats ok I can change too. As stated I have never seen an archer group but ill start asking around and maybe ill join them if they exist or start one. If one group isnt enough then more will be needed I guess. Personally I think the folks crying the most are just getting shot at during their fights and they simply hate it. So they cry loud enough and we all know history here is if you cry loud enough you get the oil (especially if your a dev). That's my opinion of course. So everyone either roll Hib and or roll archers and then see what happens. Or follow others and leave the server. Seems some folks have chosen the ladder but more for population and Op classes.

See you out there. Ill be shooting everything and everyone I see no matter what. Specifically any casters n group fight. I only have to get thru once it seems to shake things up

Good hunting all.

Fri 9 Jul 2021 1:44 AM by Irkeno

Dakkhon wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Jul 2021 1:33 AM
I have 4 archers and this "archer " problem that people are crying over I have not seen. What I do see is a bunch of solos crying about being shot at during their epeen fights in a well trafficked area and groups bitching because their casters are being interrupted while fighting another group. These archer zergs that apparently are literally destroying groups by themselves must be able to do this while still in stealth mode lol. These changes they have implemented imo are just signs they just dont want archers on the servers. Well good job you may just get your wish but you will also lose players....and that is currently a problem as we speak but for other reasons. Just change the message on this server to hack and slash only with some magic.

To be honest where ever these archer groups are I hope they get even more archers to group up and do as much damage as possible if they are going to make it that hard to play them. I 99.99999999999% solo on all my archers or at least 2. The scout is in a horrible place and my other 2 just outshine him 4 RR lower. So at RR7L4 the scout is and has been retired. So if I want to help my realm out and start shooting these OP him healers or casters or alb casters...going to be pretty much useless. Thats ok I can change too. As stated I have never seen an archer group but ill start asking around and maybe ill join them if they exist or start one. If one group isnt enough then more will be needed I guess. Personally I think the folks crying the most are just getting shot at during their fights and they simply hate it. So they cry loud enough and we all know history here is if you cry loud enough you get the oil (especially if your a dev). That's my opinion of course. So everyone either roll Hib and or roll archers and then see what happens. Or follow others and leave the server. Seems some folks have chosen the ladder but more for population and Op classes.

See you out there. Ill be shooting everything and everyone I see no matter what. Specifically any casters n group fight. I only have to get thru once it seems to shake things up Good hunting all.

When people do what youre saying youre going to do, you, and they, are not adding anything fun to the game. 8mans/solos/smalls whatever constantly have their fights ruined by adds, and even when they try their best to pick a favourable/clean inc have it added by archers…yeah they are gonna complain and stop playing.

Adding a fight as an archer is doing nothing skillfully, doing nothing fun, and doing no good for the future health of the server.

Think about it that way?

Fri 9 Jul 2021 5:54 AM by Sepplord

the new block mechanic will not really have an impact on solo-archers that go around shooting into open field fights
the tank has to stand within 500units to passive-guard their target
and the group needs to have a full tank in the first place

The impact of this will be really small overall, and basically non-existant outside of sieges (which is also the main area where the archergroups are really an issue afaik)

Fri 9 Jul 2021 8:15 AM by Lollie

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Jul 2021 5:54 AM
the new block mechanic will not really have an impact on solo-archers that go around shooting into open field fights
the tank has to stand within 500units to passive-guard their target
and the group needs to have a full tank in the first place

The impact of this will be really small overall, and basically non-existant outside of sieges (which is also the main area where the archergroups are really an issue afaik)

Basically this.

There a lot of tears from archers for such little impact. You have to bear in mind the heavy tank will be sat on the ram as well, i commend the devs for trying an innovative fix but i really cant see it affecting much.