Disable Stealth When Grouped - Phoenix Freeshard

Stealthers are clearly balanced around their ability to solo, making them entirely too strong when grouped; to counter this, disallow them to group and retain their ability to be invisible.

Fri 28 May 2021 11:51 PM by gotwqqd

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Fri 28 May 2021 11:48 PM
Stealthers are clearly balanced around their ability to solo, making them entirely too strong when grouped; to counter this, disallow them to group and retain their ability to be invisible.

Grouping means nothing

It needs to be proximity

Sat 29 May 2021 12:21 AM by Babajaga

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Fri 28 May 2021 11:48 PM
Stealthers are clearly balanced around their ability to solo, making them entirely too strong when grouped; to counter this, disallow them to group and retain their ability to be invisible.

QQ more. your that kind of trash people using sl pots to catch those solo ones as small and fg.
this is just a karma return of all stealthers. a sweet revenge about how ppl has been so toxic with em all since a year.

Plus, when stealthers currently grouping, it automatically decrease their stealth efficiency. meaning that more there are stealthers, more you detect them.

QQ²

Sat 29 May 2021 2:46 AM by Nephamael

Stealthers are clearly balanced around their ability to solo, making them entirely too strong when grouped; to counter this, disallow them to group and retain their ability to be invisible.

This might go a little far, i guess more dramatic stealth penalties per grp member, increasing exponentially would be sufficient.

I was thinking about something like 2 members = solo visible can't see them well, solo stealth spots them at 750 range.
4 members = solo visible sees them at 750 range, solo stealth sees them at 1500 range.
8 members = solo visible sees them at 1500 range, solo stealth at 3k.

(I have to confess, the 4-5 hunter gang is one of the few smallmen where i often somehow kill 1 of them and feel like i have a chance to do something at all.

Any visible smallmen at 3+ members is usually pretty much Human vs Ant.

The style change might change this tho, as archers get stronger (which is long due and good).)

Sat 29 May 2021 3:17 AM by easytoremember

Most of my deaths are from every visible in the vicinity jumping me as soon as I show myself alone~
They scour the hills like ants.

Sat 29 May 2021 7:37 AM by Jingo NZ

Would be a good experiment to do the next level playing field event with stealth disabled. Just to see what that sort of DAOC is like.

Mon 31 May 2021 6:47 AM by Sepplord

Jingo NZ wrote: ↑
Sat 29 May 2021 7:37 AM
Would be a good experiment to do the next level playing field event with stealth disabled. Just to see what that sort of DAOC is like.

Currently the event doesn't do a good job at showing what "normal" daoc is like

so why do you think custom stealth rules would reflect how it plays out in the frontier?

Mon 31 May 2021 11:50 PM by Jingo NZ

Just use it as a data point. What was it like without stealth? Was it fun? What was good/bad? Worthy of a future event or further exploration?

Tue 1 Jun 2021 6:21 AM by inoeth

well how much is this data worth? as said before this setup will not occur in real rvr.

i dont think removing stealth completely is the way to go, nobody will play stealthers anymore. this might be the intention to this suggestion but lets be realistic.
stealthers have not speed, no speed, no heal ... i exclude minstrels here, albs are special in this case.
so there is no benefit to play a stealther grp when stealth is removed.
however i am also very annoyed by those grps. i think reducing stealth significantly, like suggested before, could be a way. i mean this is also rpg friendly, a bunch of ppl is likely easier to spot than a single one. this brings some kind of tactic positioning into the stealth game too, you cant just stand on a bridge safely and choose opponents, they will immediately spot you.

however i am not sure about the stealth reducing values.

Wed 2 Jun 2021 4:34 AM by Adwaenyth

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 1 Jun 2021 6:21 AM
however i am also very annoyed by those grps. i think reducing stealth significantly, like suggested before, could be a way. i mean this is also rpg friendly, a bunch of ppl is likely easier to spot than a single one. this brings some kind of tactic positioning into the stealth game too, you cant just stand on a bridge safely and choose opponents, they will immediately spot you.

You can't have that in any meaningful way without making stealth useless for soloers who just want to pass by that area or are in the same area by chance. The only thing that could at least partially remedy that is remove stealth from any classes that do not have to engage in melee... Hunters, Rangers etc. will just spread out far enough to not be in the same vicinity where debuff applies. So either remove stealth from archers alltogether or the situation won't change.

I however like the idea of having more than 1 grouped stealther, stealth automatically deactivates for all group members.

Wed 2 Jun 2021 5:01 AM by gotwqqd

Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jun 2021 4:34 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 1 Jun 2021 6:21 AM
however i am also very annoyed by those grps. i think reducing stealth significantly, like suggested before, could be a way. i mean this is also rpg friendly, a bunch of ppl is likely easier to spot than a single one. this brings some kind of tactic positioning into the stealth game too, you cant just stand on a bridge safely and choose opponents, they will immediately spot you.

You can't have that in any meaningful way without making stealth useless for soloers who just want to pass by that area or are in the same area by chance. The only thing that could at least partially remedy that is remove stealth from any classes that do not have to engage in melee... Hunters, Rangers etc. will just spread out far enough to not be in the same vicinity where debuff applies. So either remove stealth from archers alltogether or the situation won't change.

I however like the idea of having more than 1 grouped stealther, stealth automatically deactivates for all group members.

Sure you can
Allow realm mates to see each other when concentrated at a slightly higher distance
Now you can opt to proceed or turn around/change direction

Wed 2 Jun 2021 5:06 AM by Adwaenyth

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jun 2021 5:01 AM
Sure you can
Allow realm mates to see each other when concentrated at a slightly higher distance
Now you can opt to proceed or turn around/change direction

Problem with that is, that some people are disgusting griefers. You will definitely find those then sticking others just for the lulz of them not being able to play...

Tue 22 Jun 2021 11:29 PM by ExcretusMaximus

What's this doing on page two?

Bump.

Fri 25 Jun 2021 5:24 PM by Siouxsie

Jingo NZ wrote: ↑
Mon 31 May 2021 11:50 PM
Just use it as a data point. What was it like without stealth? Was it fun? What was good/bad? Worthy of a future event or further exploration?

There was a period of time with no stealth. During beta they implemented a crazy rule where if the stealth population of a certain
realm went over a certain amount, stealth was disabled for that realm. It was insane and people railed against it.

Sun 4 Jul 2021 1:38 AM by Reklewt

This is a portion of the game we disagree vehemently on. It's already hard enough to play stealthers on this server with the current meta of: go to docks, get run over by people who literally just sit at their keep and wait for soloers. I don't even group on mine, I only solo, but the message this type of change would send is this: we hate stealthers.

This is exactly the reason I'm done with this server. Changes made simply because a portion of the playerbase doesn't like something, rather than in favor of the longevity and health of the server.

Mon 5 Jul 2021 6:52 AM by inoeth

Reklewt wrote: ↑
Sun 4 Jul 2021 1:38 AM
This is a portion of the game we disagree vehemently on. It's already hard enough to play stealthers on this server with the current meta of: go to docks, get run over by people who literally just sit at their keep and wait for soloers. I don't even group on mine, I only solo, but the message this type of change would send is this: we hate stealthers.

This is exactly the reason I'm done with this server. Changes made simply because a portion of the playerbase doesn't like something, rather than in favor of the longevity and health of the server.

this is not true, there are polls for every major change and if the majority votes for a certain thing, it is indeed for the longevity of the server.
however disableing stealth would not count to that. actually i feel the change that is currently active where stealth is going to get worse when several stealthers are in the same area is pretty nice. i also always run solo and i have a good chance to the those guys early and get away.

Mon 5 Jul 2021 9:58 AM by Tommylad

"Stealthers are clearly balanced around their ability to solo, making them entirely too strong when grouped; to counter this, disallow them to group and retain their ability to be invisible."...............Don't you just love the sarcasm dripping from that statement .........Just love love love the possibility that anybody, anybody at all could ever take that suggestion seriously!

Mon 5 Jul 2021 12:23 PM by Centenario

I agree, although I would exclude Minstrel who should be able to stealth as efficiently even when grouped.
Archers and assassins should be solo only.
Then comes the issue with the one who are assisting via discord yet not grouped. So anyhow assist archers will have to be remediated with.

Mon 5 Jul 2021 2:56 PM by gotwqqd

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Jul 2021 6:52 AM
Reklewt wrote: ↑
Sun 4 Jul 2021 1:38 AM
This is a portion of the game we disagree vehemently on. It's already hard enough to play stealthers on this server with the current meta of: go to docks, get run over by people who literally just sit at their keep and wait for soloers. I don't even group on mine, I only solo, but the message this type of change would send is this: we hate stealthers.

This is exactly the reason I'm done with this server. Changes made simply because a portion of the playerbase doesn't like something, rather than in favor of the longevity and health of the server.

this is not true, there are polls for every major change and if the majority votes for a certain thing, it is indeed for the longevity of the server.
however disableing stealth would not count to that. actually i feel the change that is currently active where stealth is going to get worse when several stealthers are in the same area is pretty nice. i also always run solo and i have a good chance to the those guys early and get away.

The proximity penalty needs to be much higher

Tue 6 Jul 2021 7:30 AM by inoeth

well that is something that we can talk about ofc.