gruenesschaf wrote: ↑Wed 12 May 2021 9:53 PM
Klasker wrote: ↑Wed 12 May 2021 9:33 PM
Why not let the scout be the badass with the Bow they used to be, atleast give them a chance at killing something.
The scout was "the badass with the bow" only because of 4 factors:
1) Buffbot
Starting with SI ranger had access to pretty much the same bow speed, given that rangers have at least the same dex values but also access to dex self buffs it should be immediately obvious that the per hit damage of the ranger will be higher than that of the scout.
With a buffbot this inherent ranger advantage is removed, you can only be cap buffed regardless of where those buffs come from and further reduced by albs having spec af from the bb. Then you have to consider that rangers were mostly viable in melee which made them spec accordingly compared to scouts which usually went higher in bow and while it was rather useless it still gave a couple % more damage that could result in more sticker shock when you already hit cap anyways.
2) Spec AF
SI introduced spec af charges, those were incredibly uncommon in the unwashed zerg yet entirely common in solo / 8 mans. Given that pretty much every solo and 8man was charging it here and even many in the zerg started to do so as well, players simply min max more these days, we added it to the buff potion as a qol to avoid the hassle.
3) Templates
Most sticker shock scout videos are against untempted enemies, especially the popular ones around toa release against oceanus randoms while the scout already had +archery damage.
4) Relics
+20% to the damage modifier made hitting for cap much more likely.
These 4 things combined with faulty memory, e. g. just remembering the 20% damage relic numbers, is why there is the scout sniper perception / expectation and the 4 digit cap crit shots.
So, you are basically nerfing players of the archer class for smart gameplay? Coordinating high alpha damage is a common thing in MMOs. Think DAoC Midgard assist trains wielding 5.8 delay dragon storm 2h-hammers to instakill targets or Tempest fleets in EVE Online utilizing the high range and alpha damage of artilleries to plop enemy battleships. Instead of punishing the whole class, I'd introduce a penalty for stealthers running in a pack. I mean, even though they are stealthers, their stealth should significantly drop for when more than 3 or 5 are sitting on each other. You could even make it a gradually increasing penalty to stealth for every additional stealther in a specific proximity.
On the topic of powerful archers back in the old times:
=> Buffbot, agree.
=> AF charge, slightly disagree because none of our renowned RVR groups used it, but yeah it makes a difference.
=> Templates, agree, though cap templates was a general thing that differentiated randoms from more ambitious guilds. I remember our alliance on Dartmoor Midgard being so powerful because of wide access to high-end gear. Same goes for the age of ToA where we had achieved max ML long before random groups finished ML3. I profoundly remember my brother and I destroying a full group in Cruachan because of us running around with Skald + Shaman Duo full artefact capped gear and ML10.
The main reason for badass archer videos: ToA featured slower bows which significantly increased crit shot damage eventually leading to the one-shot videos most people remember. Albion and Hibernia had access to 5.8-speed bows and Midgard to 5.3-speed bows via Aithos, the ML1 Trial1 opponent. Combined with buff bots/self buffs, badabing badaboom.
On the topic of bow damage and a 2-handed bonus, one of the commentators is right. The bow was granted a 2-handed weapon bonus. The formula that used to come closest to live results was the following:
Base Damage at 100% variance mark =
EDPS * (your WS/target AF) * (1-absorb) * slow weap bonus * SPD * 2h weapon bonus * Arrow Bonus
EDPS = effective dps of the weapon
For base damage this is (clamped factor and weapon condition/quality)
For cap damage this is (clamped factor only)
Condition and quality of the weapon will affect effective damage in the following way :
Effective dam = Clamped Damage * Quality(%) * Condition(%)
The clamped damage is your maximimum allowed damage at your current lvl:
Clamped Damage = 1.2 + LVL * 0.3
2h weapon bonus = 1.1 + (0.005 x spec)
SLow Weapon bonus = 1 + ( (spd - 2) x 0.03)
SPD = listed weapon speed.
Damage Cap = EDPS * SPD * 3 * (1 + (SPD - 2) * .03) * (1.1 + (0.005 x spec) )
2h weapon bonus (note: when the weapon is a two hand weapon, the cap uses the 2h weapon bonus formula also.
Arrow Bonus =
0.85 for (light damage) Blunt Suffixed arrows
1.0 For (medium damage) normal arrows
1.25 for (Extra-Heavy Damage) Broadhead Suffixed arrows
To calculate the effects of relics, base character resists and realm abilitys that add resists you would perform the following calculation:
Effective DPS * (your WS/target AF) * (relic bonus) * (1-absorb) * (1-base resists) * (1-RA resists) * slow weap bonus * 2h weapon bonus * SPD * Arrow Bonus
Example:
Attacker has 2000 weaponskill, 65 composite bow spec, a 5.5 speed bow with 16.0 effective dps, using blunt footed flight broadhead arrows, has no relics, and is attacking a chain using target with 635 af, 20 character resist, 20 RA resist.
16.0 * (2000 / 635 ) * 1.0 * ( 1 - .27 ) * ( ( 1 - .20 ) * (1 - .20) ) * 1.105 * 1.425 * 5.5 * 1.25 = 254.8759937
jk jk I hear you.
