Initialisms or word acronyms? - Phoenix Freeshard

I like language stuff. In fact, I'm a linguist IRL. So, I've been curious about how Phoenix-goers pronounce some common acronyms used in game, since I've heard different things over Discord voice chats. For the following, do you pronounce these as words (i.e., word acronyms) or as series of letters (i.e., initialisms):

1) PoC - Is it pee-oh-see or poc ([pɑk] for those who know IPA)
2) MoC - same
3) SoS - Is it es-oh-es or sauce

Tue 2 Mar 2021 4:44 PM by evert

pock mock and sauce

Tue 2 Mar 2021 5:07 PM by ExcretusMaximus

evert wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Mar 2021 4:44 PM
pock mock and sauce

Same.

Tue 2 Mar 2021 5:13 PM by

Beckett

pock, mock, soz

Tue 2 Mar 2021 5:14 PM by midiambient

Same. Also twiff

Tue 2 Mar 2021 5:57 PM by easytoremember

when it's an acronym for a proper noun I read it as the individual letters (s o s, v w). Pretty sure I'd say the same out loud

Stuff like OOP LMAO OOC I read as oop lemayo oocke

Also regen (regeneration), is the 'g' from "again", not "region"

Tue 2 Mar 2021 6:57 PM by DJ2000

dis' is how i pronounce them. i guess i am too old to follow the mainstream, so i doubt i change/correct my ways.
1) PoC - pokk
2) MoC - mokk
3) SoS - S. o. S. (i heard ppl say "soz/sauce" )
4) TWF - twiff
5) DD - dashing (rdy / up)
6) PoM - pomm (i heard ppl "crack" )
7) oom - oohm (i heard ppl say "lopp" )
8) NS - "cure ns on me / iam nearsighted"
9) VP - pilla
10) SB - soldiers's (rdy / up)
11) BA - dazzling (rdy / up)
12) NM - en_em / "ball"
13) Regeneration - re_gen
14) Stick Lost - es_el *class/name*
15) LoL - L. o. L. ( i hear ppl say "lowl" )
16) WoW - W. o. W. (i heard ppl say "wow/warcraft" )
17) DF - de_ef

The Funniest stuff are Keep names and their corresponding Towers though. Some real tongue twisters among them. While "Blend" and "Bled" cause prolly the most confusion.

Tue 2 Mar 2021 7:09 PM by Laron

> The Funniest stuff are Keep names and their corresponding Towers though. Some real tongue twisters among them. While "Blend" and "Bled" cause prolly the most confusion.

IIRC, I once heard Giosakis telling somebody off in Discord for abreviating Dun Crmithain as D. C.

Wed 3 Mar 2021 8:01 AM by Astaa

POCK
MOCK
SOSS (as in Toss)

Fri 5 Mar 2021 5:46 PM by kirby824

I still get confused when people say "DC" for a keep. This doesn't specify Crimthain or Crauchon. And when I played long ago, "DC" was Druim Caine

But hearing people call Dun Crauchon "Crotch" makes me laugh.

Sat 6 Mar 2021 4:54 PM by watbrif

I'd be great if someone with a basic command of the Irish language could give us an idea after 20 years how to pronounce some of the place and keep names in Hibernia

. For example, "Emain Macha" (see also wikipedia) seems to be something along the lines of "Even Vacha".

Sat 6 Mar 2021 7:05 PM by DJ2000

These rules aren’t applicable all the time, but they’re a good starting point.

A like in cat, or more accurately, like the first part of the vowel in cow.
À is a longer version of the above, as in father.
E like a short version of the sound in bay before the Y sets in; like French é.
È longer version of the above.
I is a short version of the sound in see.
Ì as the complete version of the sound in see.
O as in cot usually; but before B, BH, G, GH, M and MH it makes a sound more like the French au in jaune.
Ò as is the AW in law.
U is a short version of the sound in food; like French ou.
Ù as in food.

F, L, LL, M, N, NN and S; as in English.
H as in English, but only when it's found in isolation (which isn't often). When it comes after a consonant, it modifies the sound of the preceding consonant instead of having a sound of its own. See below.
P, T and C; as in English, except that in the middle or end of words you should add a very slight 'kh' sound before them, almost no more than a little extra breath. (That 'kh' is the back of the throat sound as in loch or German Bach. Practise it.) E.g. càrn ->'caarn'; baca ->'ba(kh)-kuh'.
B, D and G; as in English only at the beginnings of words. Elsewhere they sound like English P, T and C respectively. E.g. bàn ->'baan'; fada ->'fat-uh'.
R and RR; rolled, and never left out. Ever. If you can't roll your R's (some can't) you can approximate say an English R. The tongue should catch behind the teeth, producing a sharp tapping sound rather unlike the English R.
BH and MH; both pronounced as the English V. For example, mhòr -> 'vaur'.
CH; a soft "ch" as in "Loch Ness" (NOT lock!) or the German Bach.
GH and DH; these are a very hard "CH", i.e. with the mouth and tongue in the same place but with the vocal cords vibrating. (You can tell if your vocal cords are vibrating or not by placing your hand against your throat and seeing if you can feel a buzzing sensation.) It's a bit like gargling, or sitting on a G for several seconds. E.g. dhorain -> 'ghorrin'.
FH is silent. E.g. fhuaran -> 'uaran'.
PH as in English.
SH and TH; as the English H. For example, thuilm -> 'hoolim'.

As a general rule, an I following a vowel does not change its pronunciation, thus AI, EI and ÒI are pronounced the same as A, E and Ò respectively. E.g. caisteal -> 'kash-tchuhl' and coire -> 'corruh'.
AO has its own Rule. It's like the OO sound in English ''food'', but with the lips unrounded, and sounded further back in the throat. To some, it sounds like a cross between that OO sound and the UR sound in burn. E.g. aonach -> 'uw-nuhkh'.
EA: this combination sounds just like a Gaelic E after the letters D, G and S (look above for reference). Elsewhere, it mostly has the sound of the English E in ''bed'', e.g. beag -> 'behk' but geal -> 'gyel'; seal -> 'syel'
O andEÒ sound just like the Gaelic O and Ò, except that a Y sound is added before them when they come at the start of a word. E.g. beoil -> 'byaul' and eòin -> 'yawny'
EU,IA and ÌO sound like a Gaelic I and A run together, that is, like the English word ''ear'' (without the R). E.g. riabhach -> 'reea-uhkh'. One exception; before M, EU becomes a long E sound instead. Thus leum -> 'lyehm'.
IO just sounds like simple I. e.g: biod -> 'bit'.
IU,IÙ and IÙI sound just like the Gaelic U and Ù, except that a Y sound is added before them when they come at the start of a word. E.g. iubhar -> 'yoo-uhr'.
UA and UAI sound as in English pure or Northern tour. Thus bruach -> 'bruakh'.
UI normally just sounds like U (as you'd expect from the first rule) but before M, N, NG and S it sounds like the Gaelic AO instead. E.g. uisge -> 'uwshk-yuh'.

Vowels before LL, M(M) and NN:
Much as in English hall, almost every vowel in Gaelic changes its sound before these letters. (This only happens in stressed syllables.)
A and EA now make the sound of English cow. E.g. meall -> 'myowl' and ceann -> 'kyown'. In the case of EA, a Y sound is added before it when it starts a word, and it doesn't change before M.
AI now makes the sound in English sky. E.g. caill -> 'kyle'.
EI now sounds like English vein, e.g. beinn -> 'beyn' and greim -> 'greym'.
I and U simply get lengthened, e.g. till -> 'tcheely'. [tch - eel -y]
IO (and this is a weird one) becomes the long OO sound (but not before M). What's more, it gains an extra Y sound in front if it begins a word. E.g. fionn -> 'fyoon', fhionnlaidh -> 'yoon-lee' - don't forget the FH is silent!
O is lengthened to a sound similar to that in English home. E.g. tom -> 'tohm'.
OI becomes the sound of the Welsh EI, that is, a sound formed by running together a short 'uh' and an 'ee'. E.g. broinn -> 'brueyn'.
UI becomes a difficult sound formed by running together the back-of-the-throat Gaelic AO sound and an 'ee'. E.g. druim -> 'druuym'. [dr - uuym with a strong y]
EA becomes a Gaelic short A, but still has a Y preceding it if it starts a word off. E.g. teallach -> 'tchal-uhkh'.
IO becomes a Gaelic short U. It also still has a Y preceding it if it starts a word off. E.g. sionnach -> 'shu-nuhkh'.

Those pesky BH, DH, GH and MH:
The most annoying thing about these four consonants is their tendency to disappear when following a vowel. If you come across one of these four in that situation, you're safer assuming that it's silent than that it sounds as it should: e.g:
dubh -> 'doo',
labhar -> 'laa-uhr',
sidhein -> 'shee-in',
buidhe -> 'buuy-uh',
mheadhoin -> 'vey-in' (almost like the english 'vein' ),
braigh -> 'bruey',
nighean -> 'nyee-uhn'.
But then there are words like
abhainn -> 'av-in',
laogh -> 'luwgh',
damh -> 'dav' and caoimhin -> 'kuw-vin'... It helps to know that DH almost always disappears and that MH rarely does.

Name -> Pronunciation
Stob Bàn -> 'stop baan'
An Stuc -> 'uhn stu-(kh)k'
Creise -> 'kreh-shuh'
Aonach Mor -> 'uw-nuhkh maur'
Stob Coire an Laoigh -> 'stop corr-uhn luuy'
Stob Ghabhar -> 'stop ghow-uhr'
Meall Chuaich -> 'myowl khua-çh'
Càrn a' Gheoidh -> 'caarn uh yyoy'
Sgurr an Doire Leathain -> 'skuur uhn dorruh ly-e-hin'

Go ahead, test your luck. Cut the words first to pieces, and apply the above instructions. then put them back together.

Sat 6 Mar 2021 9:53 PM by gotwqqd

DJ2000 wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 7:05 PM
These rules aren’t applicable all the time, but they’re a good starting point.

A like in cat, or more accurately, like the first part of the vowel in cow.
À is a longer version of the above, as in father.
E like a short version of the sound in bay before the Y sets in; like French é.
È longer version of the above.
I is a short version of the sound in see.
Ì as the complete version of the sound in see.
O as in cot usually; but before B, BH, G, GH, M and MH it makes a sound more like the French au in jaune.
Ò as is the AW in law.
U is a short version of the sound in food; like French ou.
Ù as in food.

F, L, LL, M, N, NN and S; as in English.
H as in English, but only when it's found in isolation (which isn't often). When it comes after a consonant, it modifies the sound of the preceding consonant instead of having a sound of its own. See below.
P, T and C; as in English, except that in the middle or end of words you should add a very slight 'kh' sound before them, almost no more than a little extra breath. (That 'kh' is the back of the throat sound as in loch or German Bach. Practise it.) E.g. càrn ->'caarn'; baca ->'ba(kh)-kuh'.
B, D and G; as in English only at the beginnings of words. Elsewhere they sound like English P, T and C respectively. E.g. bàn ->'baan'; fada ->'fat-uh'.
R and RR; rolled, and never left out. Ever. If you can't roll your R's (some can't) you can approximate say an English R. The tongue should catch behind the teeth, producing a sharp tapping sound rather unlike the English R.
BH and MH; both pronounced as the English V. For example, mhòr -> 'vaur'.
CH; a soft "ch" as in loch (NOT lock!) or the German Bach.
GH and DH; these are a very hard "CH", i.e. with the mouth and tongue in the same place but with the vocal cords vibrating. (You can tell if your vocal cords are vibrating or not by placing your hand against your throat and seeing if you can feel a buzzing sensation.) It's a bit like gargling, or sitting on a G for several seconds. E.g. dhorain -> 'ghorrin'.
FH is silent. E.g. fhuaran -> 'uaran'.
PH as in English.
SH and TH; as the English H. For example, thuilm -> 'hoolim'.

As a general rule, an I following a vowel does not change its pronunciation, thus AI, EI and ÒI are pronounced the same as A, E and Ò respectively. E.g. caisteal -> 'kash-tchuhl' and coire -> 'corruh'.
AO has its own Rule. It's like the OO sound in English ''food'', but with the lips unrounded, and sounded further back in the throat. To some, it sounds like a cross between that OO sound and the UR sound in burn. E.g. aonach -> 'uw-nuhkh'.
EA: this combination sounds just like a Gaelic E after the letters D, G and S (look above for reference). Elsewhere, it mostly has the sound of the English E in ''bed'', e.g. beag -> 'behk' but geal -> 'gyel'; seal -> 'syel'
O andEÒ sound just like the Gaelic O and Ò, except that a Y sound is added before them when they come at the start of a word. E.g. beoil -> 'byaul' and eòin -> 'yawny'
EU,IA and ÌO sound like a Gaelic I and A run together, that is, like the English word ''ear'' (without the R). E.g. riabhach -> 'reea-uhkh'. One exception; before M, EU becomes a long E sound instead. Thus leum -> 'lyehm'.
IO just sounds like simple I. e.g: biod -> 'bit'.
IU,IÙ and IÙI sound just like the Gaelic U and Ù, except that a Y sound is added before them when they come at the start of a word. E.g. iubhar -> 'yoo-uhr'.
UA and UAI sound as in English pure or Northerntour. Thus bruach -> 'bruakh'.
UI normally just sounds like U (as you'd expect from the first rule) but before M, N, NG and S it sounds like the Gaelic AO instead. E.g. uisge -> 'uwshk-yuh'.

Vowels before LL, M(M) and NN:
Much as in English hall, almost every vowel in Gaelic changes its sound before these letters. (This only happens in stressed syllables.)
A and EA now make the sound of English cow. E.g. meall -> 'myowl' and ceann -> 'kyown'. In the case of EA, a Y sound is added before it when it starts a word, and it doesn't change before M.
AI now makes the sound in English sky. E.g. caill -> 'kyle'.
EI now sounds like English vein, e.g. beinn -> 'beyn' and greim -> 'greym'.
I and U simply get lengthened, e.g. till -> 'tcheely'. [tch - eel -y]
IO (and this is a weird one) becomes the long OO sound (but not before M). What's more, it gains an extra Y sound in front if it begins a word. E.g. fionn -> 'fyoon', fhionnlaidh -> 'yoon-lee' - don't forget the FH is silent!
O is lengthened to a sound similar to that in English home. E.g. tom -> 'tohm'.
OI becomes the sound of the Welsh EI, that is, a sound formed by running together a short 'uh' and an 'ee'. E.g. broinn -> 'brueyn'.
UI becomes a difficult sound formed by running together the back-of-the-throat Gaelic AO sound and an 'ee'. E.g. druim -> 'druuym'. [dr - uuym with a strong y]
EA becomes a Gaelic short A, but still has a Y preceding it if it starts a word off. E.g. teallach -> 'tchal-uhkh'.
IO becomes a Gaelic short U. It also still has a Y preceding it if it starts a word off. E.g. sionnach -> 'shu-nuhkh'.

Those pesky BH, DH, GH and MH:
The most annoying thing about these four consonants is their tendency to disappear when following a vowel. If you come across one of these four in that situation, you're safer assuming that it's silent than that it sounds as it should: e.g:
dubh -> 'doo',
labhar -> 'laa-uhr',
sidhein -> 'shee-in',
buidhe -> 'buuy-uh',
mheadhoin -> 'vey-in' (almost like the english 'vein' ),
braigh -> 'bruey',
nighean -> 'nyee-uhn'.
But then there are words like
abhainn -> 'av-in',
laogh -> 'luwgh',
damh -> 'dav' and caoimhin -> 'kuw-vin'... It helps to know that DH almost always disappears and that MH rarely does.

Name -> Pronunciation
Stob Bàn -> 'stop baan'
An Stuc -> 'uhn stu-(kh)k'
Creise -> 'kreh-shuh'
Aonach Mor -> 'uw-nuhkh maur'
Stob Coire an Laoigh -> 'stop corr-uhn luuy'
Stob Ghabhar -> 'stop ghow-uhr'
Meall Chuaich -> 'myowl khua-çh'
Càrn a' Gheoidh -> 'caarn uh yyoy'
Sgurr an Doire Leathain -> 'skuur uhn dorruh ly-e-hin'

Go ahead, test your luck. Cut the words first to pieces, and apply the above instructions. then put them back together.

So A is like cot....instead of cow

Sat 6 Mar 2021 10:22 PM by DJ2000

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 9:53 PM
So A is like cot....instead of cow

Uhm, no. thats not what i wrote? Did i make a mistake?
it's like the A in CAT or like the first part of the vowel in COW. It's about the pronunciation.

It is not pronounced like an A as in "Bathing" or "Father". It's a sharp A as in CAT. It's slightly bent as you would pronounce the first vowel in COW.

Sat 6 Mar 2021 11:19 PM by gotwqqd

DJ2000 wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 10:22 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 9:53 PM
So A is like cot....instead of cow
Uhm, no. thats not what i wrote? Did i make a mistake?
it's like the A in CAT or like the first part of the vowel in COW. It's about the pronunciation.

It is not pronounced like an A as in "Bathing" or "Father". It's a sharp A as in CAT. It's slightly bent as you would pronounce the first vowel in COW.

The c is the same in all three
The vowel sound of cat is completely different than cow or cot. So I’m not sure why you wanted to say it sounds like beginning of vowel in cow.

Sun 7 Mar 2021 3:34 AM by joshisanonymous

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 11:19 PM
DJ2000 wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 10:22 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 9:53 PM
So A is like cot....instead of cow
Uhm, no. thats not what i wrote? Did i make a mistake?
it's like the A in CAT or like the first part of the vowel in COW. It's about the pronunciation.

It is not pronounced like an A as in "Bathing" or "Father". It's a sharp A as in CAT. It's slightly bent as you would pronounce the first vowel in COW.
The c is the same in all three
The vowel sound of cat is completely different than cow or cot. So I’m not sure why you wanted to say it sounds like beginning of vowel in cow.

For most people in the US, cow has the diphthong [aʊ] in it, the first part of which is a low front tense vowel, whereas cat has [æ] in it, which is a low (or near low) front lax vowel. The two are actually pretty close.

Bath is not exactly a good word to use for a vowel example, though, since it's literally the example used to describe a vowel split that occurred in the UK but not in the US (i.e., Brits generally have the different vowels in bath and trap whereas Americans generally have the same vowel). Cot is part of a similar example for a widely attested merger of vowels in the US, by the way, making that also a bad one to use to exemplify a vowel sound. Most young people in the US say cot and caught exactly the same but most >30 people don't.

This is like a collision of two worlds for me right now.

Sun 7 Mar 2021 4:15 AM by gotwqqd

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sun 7 Mar 2021 3:34 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 11:19 PM
DJ2000 wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 10:22 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 9:53 PM
So A is like cot....instead of cow
Uhm, no. thats not what i wrote? Did i make a mistake?
it's like the A in CAT or like the first part of the vowel in COW. It's about the pronunciation.

It is not pronounced like an A as in "Bathing" or "Father". It's a sharp A as in CAT. It's slightly bent as you would pronounce the first vowel in COW.
The c is the same in all three
The vowel sound of cat is completely different than cow or cot. So I’m not sure why you wanted to say it sounds like beginning of vowel in cow.

For most people in the US, cow has the diphthong [aʊ] in it, the first part of which is a low front tense vowel, whereas cat has [æ] in it, which is a low (or near low) front lax vowel. The two are actually pretty close.

Bath is not exactly a good word to use for a vowel example, though, since it's literally the example used to describe a vowel split that occurred in the UK but not in the US (i.e., Brits generally have the different vowels in bath and trap whereas Americans generally have the same vowel). Cot is part of a similar example for a widely attested merger of vowels in the US, by the way, making that also a bad one to use to exemplify a vowel sound. Most young people in the US say cot and caught exactly the same but most >30 people don't.

This is like a collision of two worlds for me right now.

The us is probably a terrible example for pronunciation, the accent differences can be extreme in about 5 or 6 areas

Sun 7 Mar 2021 6:16 AM by easytoremember

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sun 7 Mar 2021 3:34 AM
Most young people in the US say cot and caught exactly the same but most >30 people don't.

going to have nightmares over this

Sun 7 Mar 2021 6:42 AM by joshisanonymous

easytoremember wrote: ↑
Sun 7 Mar 2021 6:16 AM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sun 7 Mar 2021 3:34 AM
Most young people in the US say cot and caught exactly the same but most >30 people don't.
going to have nightmares over this

Most of my students do, too.

Sun 7 Mar 2021 10:01 AM by DJ2000

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 11:19 PM
DJ2000 wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 10:22 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Mar 2021 9:53 PM
So A is like cot....instead of cow
Uhm, no. thats not what i wrote? Did i make a mistake?
it's like the A in CAT or like the first part of the vowel in COW. It's about the pronunciation.

It is not pronounced like an A as in "Bathing" or "Father". It's a sharp A as in CAT. It's slightly bent as you would pronounce the first vowel in COW.
The c is the same in all three
The vowel sound of cat is completely different than cow or cot. So I’m not sure why you wanted to say it sounds like beginning of vowel in cow.

It is about the A, not the C.
COT was an example for the O, not the A.

Was just trying to give some pointers without overcomplicating things, otherwise this would drift into some completely stupid debate about differences and small nuances that are unnecessary, when the goal is just to appease the curiosity on how to pronounce something in a video Game.
From North to South and East to West, there is no uniformity anyway. Not among the UK and not among the US.

Wed 10 Mar 2021 5:26 PM by Urzawolf

I think the presence or absence of a vowel is what determines my pronunciation.

Mock, Pock, and Sauce is how I would mention the ones referenced above, however, DD, TNN, DF, etc. are all pronounced as acronyms in my head.

There are other acronyms that are non-daoc related that are sort of weird how I pronounce them in my head, specifically LOL, which I instantly translate to "Haha" and not lull or LOL, another one is WTF, which I translate to it's full spelling, "What the Frigg"?.

Wed 10 Mar 2021 6:27 PM by evert

Urzawolf wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Mar 2021 5:26 PM
I think the presence or absence of a vowel is what determines my pronunciation.

Mock, Pock, and Sauce is how I would mention the ones referenced above, however, DD, TNN, DF, etc. are all pronounced as acronyms in my head.

On the other hand, twiff, IP, FA, AM, etc...

Thu 11 Mar 2021 12:33 AM by Urzawolf

Your probably right that another factor, such as three characters versus two.

The presence of a vowel in three characters tends to cause me to turn them into words such as pock or sauce.

The presence of only two letters causes me to use the acronym rule, IP, for example is I+P and not Iyp.