unbalanced server

Started 16 Jun 2020
by canzian
in Ask the Team
First of all, sorry for my english, but....

how the hell is the server balanced????

Hib have: nerfed animist, nerfed bard, warden with no shield train, VW with old style and no disase aoe, only 2 climb class
Mid have: 3 climb class
Alb have: custom op Wiz, custom Friar, custom paladin, 3 climb class, most bugged class like necromancer

conclusion is: mid is balanced, hib is nerfed, alb is for people like easy win


It's all ok???? Gm think people are blind? This status quo is fine only for alb player or relik hopper...
Tue 16 Jun 2020 9:05 AM by Razur Ur
You forget no back snare style in Large Weapon for peeling!
Tue 16 Jun 2020 9:45 AM by Blitze
To answer your grievance about Albion.

The custom friar here has some little buffs yep... and most of the buffs came last year when friars had the lowest no. of RR5s of any class.
on live at this patch level friars sucked bad (they were ungroupable) even with dodger, good RR5, and assa str/con poison that they don’t have here. On live they got hugely buffed with 1.8specc points, increased WS, Healstyles, group end redux... again none of which they have here.

Custom paladins... Hmmmm, to say this politely; they are of no benefit to Albion because no one plays them. Because the custom buffs do not make them more useful than another class with everyone using the end3 potion/LW1/tireless combo

Some data:
A few weeks ago friars were in the bottom 10 performing classes with only ~35 RR7s.
Paladins were dead bottom of the no. of RR7s with ~15 which is almost half as many as the second bottom.
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:35 AM by Razur Ur
Blitze wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 9:45 AM
Some data:
A few weeks ago friars were in the bottom 10 performing classes with only ~35 RR7s.
Paladins were dead bottom of the no. of RR7s with ~15 which is almost half as many as the second bottom.

Now gives more high rr friar as champions :-D
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:44 AM by Nunki
canzian wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 8:48 AM
First of all, sorry for my english, but....

how the hell is the server balanced????

Hib have: nerfed animist, nerfed bard, warden with no shield train, VW with old style and no disase aoe, only 2 climb class
Mid have: 3 climb class
Alb have: custom op Wiz, custom Friar, custom paladin, 3 climb class, most bugged class like necromancer

conclusion is: mid is balanced, hib is nerfed, alb is for people like easy win


It's all ok???? Gm think people are blind? This status quo is fine only for alb player or relik hopper...
This is the most balanced of all 1.65 freeshards I have ever played on. Did you consider the classic 1.65 patch state as balanced?

Man could say that given Patch 1.65 most classes in Hibernia were clearly in a better situation than Mid and especially Alb.

Midgard has one caster less than Alb and Hib, in which case one more climbing class makes sense.

Man could list ALL the nerfs and changes (even those made in Midgard and Albion) and see which one were reasonable or not.

Animist during keep fights were gamebreaking and the nerf was reasonable, probably not perfect tho.
Bard nerf was an interesting approach, probably not the best but quite reasonable. I wouldn't mind to decrease the AE-Amnesia even more to 1875 and give them another tool instead (second instant-dd).
Warden didn't have shield spec at 1.65 and they are still playable (thats at least what most warden players say). I wouldn't mind a slight buff for Warden tho.
VW is good as it is.

Friar, Palading and Necro buffs were reasonable. They should fix the Necro-pet pathing in keep fights, but thats it from my side.
Wizard buff was reasonable but obviously too much utility in one spec-line.

Instead of unconstractive flaming, which Buffs and Nerfs do you recommend and why?
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:45 AM by Nunki
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:35 AM
Blitze wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 9:45 AM
Some data:
A few weeks ago friars were in the bottom 10 performing classes with only ~35 RR7s.
Paladins were dead bottom of the no. of RR7s with ~15 which is almost half as many as the second bottom.

Now gives more high rr friar as champions :-D
RR7+ Friars: 37
RR7+ Champions: 51.

What did I miss?
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:45 AM by Gildar
canzian wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 8:48 AM
First of all, sorry for my english, but....

how the hell is the server balanced????

Hib have: nerfed animist, nerfed bard, warden with no shield train, VW with old style and no disase aoe, only 2 climb class
Mid have: 3 climb class
Alb have: custom op Wiz, custom Friar, custom paladin, 3 climb class, most bugged class like necromancer

conclusion is: mid is balanced, hib is nerfed, alb is for people like easy win


It's all ok???? Gm think people are blind? This status quo is fine only for alb player or relik hopper...

Sadly true man
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:52 AM by Razur Ur
Nunki wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:45 AM
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:35 AM
Blitze wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 9:45 AM
Some data:
A few weeks ago friars were in the bottom 10 performing classes with only ~35 RR7s.
Paladins were dead bottom of the no. of RR7s with ~15 which is almost half as many as the second bottom.

Now gives more high rr friar as champions :-D
RR7+ Friars: 37
RR7+ Champions: 51.

What did I miss?

I wrote high RR and rr7 is certainly not high rr :-D, so take a look at rr8+.
Tue 16 Jun 2020 1:41 PM by Nunki
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:52 AM
Nunki wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:45 AM
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:35 AM
Now gives more high rr friar as champions :-D
RR7+ Friars: 37
RR7+ Champions: 51.

What did I miss?

I wrote high RR and rr7 is certainly not high rr :-D, so take a look at rr8+.
Sure, RR7 is not high RR, but RR8 is high RR?
What if I say that RR8 is not high RR, but RR9 is.
What if I say that the only real high RR is RR10+?

RR8+ Friars: 20 (15 scaled by population)
RR8+ Champions: 19

RR9+ Friars: 9 (6,75 scaled by population)
RR9+ Champions: 10

RR10+ Friars: 3 (2,25 scaled by population)
RR10+ Champions: 4

What else do you have to say?
Tue 16 Jun 2020 2:36 PM by gotwqqd
Yes
Having only two classes that can climb completely ruins a realm
Tue 16 Jun 2020 2:37 PM by Razur Ur
Nunki wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 1:41 PM
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:52 AM
Nunki wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:45 AM
RR7+ Friars: 37
RR7+ Champions: 51.

What did I miss?

I wrote high RR and rr7 is certainly not high rr :-D, so take a look at rr8+.
Sure, RR7 is not high RR, but RR8 is high RR?
What if I say that RR8 is not high RR, but RR9 is.
What if I say that the only real high RR is RR10+?

RR8+ Friars: 20 (15 scaled by population)
RR8+ Champions: 19

RR9+ Friars: 9 (6,75 scaled by population)
RR9+ Champions: 10

RR10+ Friars: 3 (2,25 scaled by population)
RR10+ Champions: 4

What else do you have to say?

want say that give three rr11 friar and only two rr11 champs ;-D and i wonder me because all talking over this OP Class Champion and ask me why give not more
high rr Champions how by minstrels?
Tue 16 Jun 2020 2:54 PM by Nunki
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 2:37 PM
Nunki wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 1:41 PM
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:52 AM
I wrote high RR and rr7 is certainly not high rr :-D, so take a look at rr8+.
Sure, RR7 is not high RR, but RR8 is high RR?
What if I say that RR8 is not high RR, but RR9 is.
What if I say that the only real high RR is RR10+?

RR8+ Friars: 20 (15 scaled by population)
RR8+ Champions: 19

RR9+ Friars: 9 (6,75 scaled by population)
RR9+ Champions: 10

RR10+ Friars: 3 (2,25 scaled by population)
RR10+ Champions: 4

What else do you have to say?

want say that give three rr11 friar and only two rr11 champs ;-D and i wonder me because all talking over this OP Class Champion and ask me why give not more
high rr Champions how by minstrels?

RR11 Friars: 3 (2,25 scaled by population)
RR11 Champions: 2

HUGE data sample you got there. Must be totally unbalanced!

Better compare Champions with Minstrels, totally reasonable!
Never heard anyone stating Champion as OP (probably strong in 1v1 tho), I also never heard anyone stating Friar as OP.
Tue 16 Jun 2020 8:20 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Ignore Razur, he literally turns every conversation about balance into a "woe is me, Champions suck" complaint.
Tue 16 Jun 2020 9:24 PM by SDShannonS
I think it's important to remember that, from its beginning, DAoC was never meant to be balanced on a class-by-class basis. The classes are different from each other and always will be. There will always exist class imbalances where one class has more or less utility/DPS/whatever than other classes and even when taken as a whole the classes of one realm may have more or less utility/DPS/whatever than the classes of another realm. What is vastly more important to look at is the overall realm performance in PvE and RvR in comparison with the other two realms.

If each realm is able to perform approximately equally to the other two realms, then the server as a whole is balanced. That takes into account realm populations as well as the various abilities of each class and how they are distributed. If one realm is significantly under- or over-performing OVERALL in RvR or PvE (not just individual classes within that realm, but the server-wide population of that entire realm) then adjustments should be made but complaining about differences between individual class compositions is not likely to get much traction.

I'm not part of the dev team so I don't have access to the raw numbers to see how the realms are doing in overall RvR and PvE statistics but a question you might want to consider asking is, "Have each of the realms been able to gain control of their own and/or other realms' relics?" If the answer to that is "yes" then that's a good sign that each realm is able to perform competitively with the others. While minor tweaks to individual classes are still going to continue, if the answer to the above question is "yes" then the devs probably don't need to consider a major overhaul of your favorite realm or mine.

At least, that's how I see it.
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:36 PM by Nephamael
Tbh Wizy is only a strong zergsurfer and the impact of a manaeld is very close. No decent alb 8man would even grp a wizy cause cabba and sorc are just so much more op

But yes, we need to bring Warden into balance with friar by giving warden spec grpheal and cure nearsight!!!

Also id much appreciate giving some hib character a 2300 range rupt (currently a hib castergrp gets outranged by a mid tankgrp (2x healer 2300 amnesia vs 1x eld nearsight). Either cast amnesia for Bard, Ench or Ment or something else
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