Promote Realm Loyalty via game mechanics

I've only been on this server a short time, but one thing is clear the ease of switching Realms is a problem in respect to bandwagoners leaping to whichever Realm has the most relics. I suggest implementing a system that penalizes such players in what seems to motivate players the most, Realm Points. The exact details could vary but the general idea is to get the full RP rewards you must not have switched from another realm for some time (weeks/month). Perhaps switching to Realm that has no relics from one that has extra relics could have a shorter cool down or no penalty at all, but switching to a Realm that has another Realms relics a significant reduction for a significant time ought to be imposed. Something like a 20-30% penalty that reduces over time.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 4:12 AM by Nephamael

Mostly people switch from the realm that has the most relics and then take them from another realm, then it switches back, all realms have been on top in RvR for some weeks during the last months.

Realm dominance also primarily depends on a consistently active Zergleader, people enjoy to zerg with.

Pilzpower and Polemo are the primary examples of such successful zergleaders having had their weeks of extreme dominance over the other realms and surely having them in the future.

Midgard is the only realm currently not having a strong consistent Zergleader at EU primetime. Back when it had Polemo it was so dominant, neither Albs nor Hibs dared to crouch 10 feet away from their keeps/towers.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:50 AM by ExcretusMaximus

No amount of incentive is going to keep relic chasers from chasing relics, it's just the reality of the situation.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 4:50 PM by Higach

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:50 AM
No amount of incentive is going to keep relic chasers from chasing relics, it's just the reality of the situation.

How about getting rid of relic bonuses?

That might do it. They are horrible, horrible 20 year old game design anyway. They cause wayyy more problems than they solve and always have. They always have a snowball effect of the dominate realm becoming more dominate, and the other 2 realms to lose motivation to even try. And even worse here you can just hop and always play with the advantage.

Penalizing realm switching sucks though, and only addresses the symptom. Plus it prevents people from being able to play all three realms, which is a major boon of this server IMO.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 5:46 PM by dougrighteous1

I personally like the relic mechanic. Polemo and barachan go to extreme lengths to keep them. We held on to the bold relic for a long time. There is pride associated with them, and the realm imbalance isn't a Zerg leaders fault.

Exactly 2 weeks ago, and the 2 months prior, hibs outnumbered everyone, at all times of the day. The populationa are cyclical and it's not all bad. For instance, listing on 8v8, theres always many more alb groups. If your hib/mid, there's always quick constant action. Being able to rvr in your own realm generates so many more realm points regardless of deaths.

Realm hoppers are always going to be a thing. The idea of realm loyalty is predominantly nostalgia talking I'm afraid. The 4 hour timer is a great addition imo.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 7:24 PM by darkstar00

Higach wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 4:50 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:50 AM
No amount of incentive is going to keep relic chasers from chasing relics, it's just the reality of the situation.

How about getting rid of relic bonuses?

That might do it. They are horrible, horrible 20 year old game design anyway. They cause wayyy more problems than they solve and always have. They always have a snowball effect of the dominate realm becoming more dominate, and the other 2 realms to lose motivation to even try. And even worse here you can just hop and always play with the advantage.

Penalizing realm switching sucks though, and only addresses the symptom. Plus it prevents people from being able to play all three realms, which is a major boon of this server IMO.

I like this. The relic control can really hamper the other realms, i think that is the problem as well.

Also, sometimes people just want a change of scenery and play the other realms. I think it helps to learn more about the game when people do.

And for those that are going to quickly say help your realm get the relics back... well that is just one view point that I don't always agree with since I play mainly stealther classes... but I appreciate the people that do.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 10:10 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Higach wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 4:50 PM
.

Ignoring your post because I don't have an opinion one way or the other, I never interact with the relic system.

That said, did you play a Healer on Pellinor named Higachi? Sorry, the name is so similar I had to ask.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 10:44 PM by Higach

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 10:10 PM
Higach wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 4:50 PM
.

Ignoring your post because I don't have an opinion one way or the other, I never interact with the relic system.

That said, did you play a Healer on Pellinor named Higachi? Sorry, the name is so similar I had to ask.

I did indeed

Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:46 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Higach wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 10:44 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 10:10 PM
Higach wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 4:50 PM
.

Ignoring your post because I don't have an opinion one way or the other, I never interact with the relic system.

That said, did you play a Healer on Pellinor named Higachi? Sorry, the name is so similar I had to ask.

I did indeed

I played Ozyn/Comalies, you were in my guild!

Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:57 PM by Higach

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:46 PM
Higach wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 10:44 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 10:10 PM
Ignoring your post because I don't have an opinion one way or the other, I never interact with the relic system.

That said, did you play a Healer on Pellinor named Higachi? Sorry, the name is so similar I had to ask.

I did indeed

I played Ozyn/Comalies, you were in my guild!

Wow small world. Forsaken Redemption... back when I was a sh*thead teenager heh. Do you still play with any of those old guys? I was always buddies with Gorni the skald, but I haven't spoken to him in over a decade.

Tue 2 Jun 2020 2:00 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Higach wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:57 PM
Wow small world. Forsaken Redemption... back when I was a sh*thead teenager heh. Do you still play with any of those old guys? I was always buddies with Gorni the skald, but I haven't spoken to him in over a decade.

I haven't talked to Derek in a long, long time. We used to be Facebook friends but he sort of dropped off the planet.
Charles (Skane) is doing well.
Jason (G, Residue, Gaund) finally retired from the Navy and is working for the post office.
I haven't seen or heard from Mike (Huhammer) since 2009.
Same for James (Veals).
Joe (Braids) is doing well.
Craig (Darmar, Littlebluebomber) lives with me, he's doing well as well.
Scott (Ulyoth the Thane) died 6 years ago.
Dan & Renee (I can't remember their character names) were doing well last I talked to them, but that was a long time ago.

Mon 8 Jun 2020 2:32 AM by Helwyr

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:50 AM
No amount of incentive is going to keep relic chasers from chasing relics, it's just the reality of the situation.

I think the PvP zones and subsequent reduction to RPs earned showed us no matter what most people tell us is important to them RPs remain their priority.

Also aside for relic chasing and bandwagoning onto the stronger side, I think for a Realm vs Realm game those that stick to one Realm should be rewarded for doing so.

Mon 8 Jun 2020 7:39 AM by inoeth

how about building a "wall" around the realms to keep the bad ppl out. we can call it the "anti-fascistic barrier".... worked very well in germany for 40 years.....

hands down:
"realm pride" is nothing more that nationalism and i dont think that should be promoted in any way! especially not in a game. and if someone likes to play midgard today and albion tomorrow, why would you keep him from doing so? grow up, get over it, dont be an asshole.

Mon 8 Jun 2020 7:54 AM by Ruggz

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jun 2020 7:39 AM
how about building a "wall" around the realms to keep the bad ppl out. we can call it the "anti-fascistic barrier".... worked very well in germany for 40 years.....

hands down:
"realm pride" is nothing more that nationalism and i dont think that should be promoted in any way! especially not in a game. and if someone likes to play midgard today and albion tomorrow, why would you keep him from doing so? grow up, get over it, dont be an asshole.

All i saw in your post was just you talking shit, and making comparisons that doesn't even fit.

Nationalism? What are even saying? Do you change jobs everytime someone offers you 10 cents more to flip burgers at mac donalds?
You dont think jeff who is number uno at flipping burgers, who has been there for years deserve more pay than you?

Without a core/foundation there is no realms.. we might aswell be playing wow. This game only works as long as there is somewhat of a core on the realm...
Take pilzpower for example, in the glory days, if he jumped ship, people would follow and then all of a sudden hibernia would be red or blue constantly..

There needs to be a punishment for jumping pvp scenes as u please.. be it something like 0.75 rps day 1, going to 1 after lets say, 25 days?

This way people who stay dont get a benefit, but people who jump get a punishment and a reset on the 25 days counter.. etc etc etc

And fot you specifically, noone cares about your post about racism/nationalism, keep that shit out of the topic

Mon 8 Jun 2020 11:04 AM by inoeth

Ruggz wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jun 2020 7:54 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jun 2020 7:39 AM
how about building a "wall" around the realms to keep the bad ppl out. we can call it the "anti-fascistic barrier".... worked very well in germany for 40 years.....

hands down:
"realm pride" is nothing more that nationalism and i dont think that should be promoted in any way! especially not in a game. and if someone likes to play midgard today and albion tomorrow, why would you keep him from doing so? grow up, get over it, dont be an asshole.

All i saw in your post was just you talking shit, and making comparisons that doesn't even fit.

Nationalism? What are even saying? Do you change jobs everytime someone offers you 10 cents more to flip burgers at mac donalds?
You dont think jeff who is number uno at flipping burgers, who has been there for years deserve more pay than you?

Without a core/foundation there is no realms.. we might aswell be playing wow. This game only works as long as there is somewhat of a core on the realm...
Take pilzpower for example, in the glory days, if he jumped ship, people would follow and then all of a sudden hibernia would be red or blue constantly..

There needs to be a punishment for jumping pvp scenes as u please.. be it something like 0.75 rps day 1, going to 1 after lets say, 25 days?

This way people who stay dont get a benefit, but people who jump get a punishment and a reset on the 25 days counter.. etc etc etc

And fot you specifically, noone cares about your post about racism/nationalism, keep that shit out of the topic

i agree it would be absolutly awful if hibernia was not green anymore, aswell as if people would leave because fun is on the other side of the border! we need to stop them from having fun, build that wall. and we need spring guns and barb wire and german shepherds, jawohl!

on the other hand it would be nice if midgard was more crowded these days, but i also fear that the green immigrant then will destroy our markets with their traded animist platinums. and they are going to steal our jobs! poor core midgardians will bleed out and cant afford any items anymore. it will feel like you cant breath anymore #bluelivesmatter #noborders

Mon 8 Jun 2020 3:12 PM by tyrantanic

Realm Loyalty / Realm Pride is an old concept that is better suited for roleplaying in today's game. It worked fine locking players to one realm when multiple servers were running with healthy populations (2-3k concurrent players per server). However, the overall DAoC community now (including Live and other freeshards) is extremely small in the MMORPG world. Locking or penalizing players out of any realm only dissuades them from playing. The current realm timer is a nice balance as it keeps the population up for a longer time.

I think players often forget what separates DAoC from WoW and WoW-like MMOs: three-way PvP / RvR and 39+ unique classes. The former is a rare concept that few MMOs have tried (ESO and GW2 for example) but the latter is where the line is clearly drawn. No two teams (realms) have the same classes. I see no reason to discourage players from experiencing other realms and, more importantly, other classes.

Population ebbs and flows as is the nature of the game. Relics and the realm timer have little to do with that in my opinion. As another poster stated, a consistent and effective BG leader does more for (or against) population balance than any incentives or penalties ever could. Casual players will follow a "good" BG leader regardless of what realm they're playing on (i.e. Polemo). If you want balance, then you need balance in leadership across all three realms during both prime times. I concede that this becomes more difficult with a waning population. Nonetheless, it is undeniable that realm population is directly tied to leadership, a player based issue.

tldr: penalties = less players. leadership = more players

Sun 14 Jun 2020 7:07 PM by Helwyr

tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jun 2020 3:12 PM
Realm Loyalty / Realm Pride is an old concept that is better suited for roleplaying in today's game. It worked fine locking players to one realm when multiple servers were running with healthy populations (2-3k concurrent players per server). However, the overall DAoC community now (including Live and other freeshards) is extremely small in the MMORPG world. Locking or penalizing players out of any realm only dissuades them from playing. The current realm timer is a nice balance as it keeps the population up for a longer time.

I think players often forget what separates DAoC from WoW and WoW-like MMOs: three-way PvP / RvR and 39+ unique classes. The former is a rare concept that few MMOs have tried (ESO and GW2 for example) but the latter is where the line is clearly drawn. No two teams (realms) have the same classes. I see no reason to discourage players from experiencing other realms and, more importantly, other classes.

Population ebbs and flows as is the nature of the game. Relics and the realm timer have little to do with that in my opinion. As another poster stated, a consistent and effective BG leader does more for (or against) population balance than any incentives or penalties ever could. Casual players will follow a "good" BG leader regardless of what realm they're playing on (i.e. Polemo). If you want balance, then you need balance in leadership across all three realms during both prime times. I concede that this becomes more difficult with a waning population. Nonetheless, it is undeniable that realm population is directly tied to leadership, a player based issue.

tldr: penalties = less players. leadership = more players

You make a good point about the single server issue and I agree on the importance of realm leaders, but to say "Realm Loyalty / Realm Pride is an old concept that is better suited to roleplaying" is to have completely lost the plot of what really made DAoC special. That Realm identity is a critical component in the three way RvR. I challenge anyone to actually go and ask Mark Jacobs who came up with the concept of 3 way RvR and designed much of this game on the importance of Realm Identity / loyalty to a Realm vs Realm game. I will be genuinely shocked if Mark disagrees with me on this topic. A DAoC that's solely about "good fights", trying out all the classes, and Realm Point accumulation is a shallow weak game. In fact if you are not strongly supporting Realm identity I honestly think a Mordred FFA style server would be the better way to go, not a classic DAoC RvR.

Mon 15 Jun 2020 3:03 AM by joshisanonymous

I like this idea a lot. In fact, I'm generally against relatively restriction-less realm switching, but would support full on zero timer even for RvR realm switching if a mechanic like this was in place. Of course some people would still switch realms to whichever realm is the strongest at the moment, but they'd basically always have reduced RPs, which is a fair trade off as far as I'm concerned, and would de facto reward people who stick around to build up a realm.

Tue 16 Jun 2020 3:50 PM by tyrantanic

Helwyr wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 7:07 PM
tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jun 2020 3:12 PM
Realm Loyalty / Realm Pride is an old concept that is better suited for roleplaying in today's game. It worked fine locking players to one realm when multiple servers were running with healthy populations (2-3k concurrent players per server). However, the overall DAoC community now (including Live and other freeshards) is extremely small in the MMORPG world. Locking or penalizing players out of any realm only dissuades them from playing. The current realm timer is a nice balance as it keeps the population up for a longer time.

I think players often forget what separates DAoC from WoW and WoW-like MMOs: three-way PvP / RvR and 39+ unique classes. The former is a rare concept that few MMOs have tried (ESO and GW2 for example) but the latter is where the line is clearly drawn. No two teams (realms) have the same classes. I see no reason to discourage players from experiencing other realms and, more importantly, other classes.

Population ebbs and flows as is the nature of the game. Relics and the realm timer have little to do with that in my opinion. As another poster stated, a consistent and effective BG leader does more for (or against) population balance than any incentives or penalties ever could. Casual players will follow a "good" BG leader regardless of what realm they're playing on (i.e. Polemo). If you want balance, then you need balance in leadership across all three realms during both prime times. I concede that this becomes more difficult with a waning population. Nonetheless, it is undeniable that realm population is directly tied to leadership, a player based issue.

tldr: penalties = less players. leadership = more players

You make a good point about the single server issue and I agree on the importance of realm leaders, but to say "Realm Loyalty / Realm Pride is an old concept that is better suited to roleplaying" is to have completely lost the plot of what really made DAoC special. That Realm identity is a critical component in the three way RvR. I challenge anyone to actually go and ask Mark Jacobs who came up with the concept of 3 way RvR and designed much of this game on the importance of Realm Identity / loyalty to a Realm vs Realm game. I will be genuinely shocked if Mark disagrees with me on this topic. A DAoC that's solely about "good fights", trying out all the classes, and Realm Point accumulation is a shallow weak game. In fact if you are not strongly supporting Realm identity I honestly think a Mordred FFA style server would be the better way to go, not a classic DAoC RvR.

MJ got the three realm idea from an older game called Air Warrior (see podcast here: https://countdowntoclassic.com/2019/10/09/episode-124-sliding-into-dms/). I can't say with any confidence that the game was designed with the importance of Realm Pride. MJ states in the podcast he didn't prefer one realm over the other (an unsurprising response for a developer). His biggest "promotion" of Realm Pride was preventing players across realms from communicating in-game so players couldn't easily cheat. He does recognize that players likely used platforms outside the game to communicate but the idea was to keep each realm unique. The large roster of classes was made to set DAoC apart from Everquest since he knew Mythic couldn't compete with them on content development. Simply put, DAoC was designed to be a niche MMO with a unique PvP system (RvR) where each of the three teams had a set of unique classes. Everything else is player constructed: 1v1, 8v8, Realm Pride, etc.

Tue 16 Jun 2020 4:43 PM by Ruggz

tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 3:50 PM
Helwyr wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 7:07 PM
tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Mon 8 Jun 2020 3:12 PM
Realm Loyalty / Realm Pride is an old concept that is better suited for roleplaying in today's game. It worked fine locking players to one realm when multiple servers were running with healthy populations (2-3k concurrent players per server). However, the overall DAoC community now (including Live and other freeshards) is extremely small in the MMORPG world. Locking or penalizing players out of any realm only dissuades them from playing. The current realm timer is a nice balance as it keeps the population up for a longer time.

I think players often forget what separates DAoC from WoW and WoW-like MMOs: three-way PvP / RvR and 39+ unique classes. The former is a rare concept that few MMOs have tried (ESO and GW2 for example) but the latter is where the line is clearly drawn. No two teams (realms) have the same classes. I see no reason to discourage players from experiencing other realms and, more importantly, other classes.

Population ebbs and flows as is the nature of the game. Relics and the realm timer have little to do with that in my opinion. As another poster stated, a consistent and effective BG leader does more for (or against) population balance than any incentives or penalties ever could. Casual players will follow a "good" BG leader regardless of what realm they're playing on (i.e. Polemo). If you want balance, then you need balance in leadership across all three realms during both prime times. I concede that this becomes more difficult with a waning population. Nonetheless, it is undeniable that realm population is directly tied to leadership, a player based issue.

tldr: penalties = less players. leadership = more players

You make a good point about the single server issue and I agree on the importance of realm leaders, but to say "Realm Loyalty / Realm Pride is an old concept that is better suited to roleplaying" is to have completely lost the plot of what really made DAoC special. That Realm identity is a critical component in the three way RvR. I challenge anyone to actually go and ask Mark Jacobs who came up with the concept of 3 way RvR and designed much of this game on the importance of Realm Identity / loyalty to a Realm vs Realm game. I will be genuinely shocked if Mark disagrees with me on this topic. A DAoC that's solely about "good fights", trying out all the classes, and Realm Point accumulation is a shallow weak game. In fact if you are not strongly supporting Realm identity I honestly think a Mordred FFA style server would be the better way to go, not a classic DAoC RvR.

MJ got the three realm idea from an older game called Air Warrior (see podcast here: https://countdowntoclassic.com/2019/10/09/episode-124-sliding-into-dms/). I can't say with any confidence that the game was designed with the importance of Realm Pride. MJ states in the podcast he didn't prefer one realm over the other (an unsurprising response for a developer). His biggest "promotion" of Realm Pride was preventing players across realms from communicating in-game so players couldn't easily cheat. He does recognize that players likely used platforms outside the game to communicate but the idea was to keep each realm unique. The large roster of classes was made to set DAoC apart from Everquest since he knew Mythic couldn't compete with them on content development. Simply put, DAoC was designed to be a niche MMO with a unique PvP system (RvR) where each of the three teams had a set of unique classes. Everything else is player constructed: 1v1, 8v8, Realm Pride, etc.

I respect you have your strong opinions.
But they are down right wrong..

Right now, game is dying down rapidly in eu timeframe cuz people went back yo their normal lives cuz of corona

Take pilzpower and polemo as example.
Pilz rarely plays these days and havent for weeks. Hib RvR activity during eu time is next to zero.

Polemo logs on later and later, which also sadly pushes the timeframe of EU activity thus making it a smaller timeframe...

Without realm pride as you call it, there is no social interaction, people barely know who anyone is.
People wont/mainly refuse to follow a random leader, who might just have arrived lets say on mid. And if it happens, 1 wipe and its over...

With no REAL/LONG-TERM players to pick up the leader torch.. there wont be any zergs.

TLDR realm loyalty is VERY important for building a solid team of players working together

Tue 16 Jun 2020 4:49 PM by Bradekes

Why not just have a way to activate your account for a specific realm. Like it locks you to that realm and you cannot switch unless you delete all your toons but you get a good bonus to rps,exp,gold.

That way all of the ones that want to switch realms can enjoy that but the ones who stick to only one can enjoy being there and their bonuses would actually be warranted instead of those bonuses ever getting abused

Tue 16 Jun 2020 5:21 PM by inoeth

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 4:49 PM
Why not just have a way to activate your account for a specific realm. Like it locks you to that realm and you cannot switch unless you delete all your toons but you get a good bonus to rps,exp,gold.

That way all of the ones that want to switch realms can enjoy that but the ones who stick to only one can enjoy being there and their bonuses would actually be warranted instead of those bonuses ever getting abused

lul

Tue 16 Jun 2020 5:46 PM by Quik

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 4:49 PM
Why not just have a way to activate your account for a specific realm. Like it locks you to that realm and you cannot switch unless you delete all your toons but you get a good bonus to rps,exp,gold.

That way all of the ones that want to switch realms can enjoy that but the ones who stick to only one can enjoy being there and their bonuses would actually be warranted instead of those bonuses ever getting abused

Absolutely.

We will have the population of Uthgard in no time!!!

Tue 16 Jun 2020 5:47 PM by The Skies Asunder

There is really no point in this argument anymore. There aren't enough players, and there is only one server. The time sink of Live DAoC in the early 2000s had as much to do with realm pride as anything else. None of us are spending hundreds of hours to get to level 50, and hundreds more to get a template and figure out all the mechanics of the game. The virtual landscape is different now with voice chats, and text servers such as Discord. We all communicate with each other, and the people you played with made more of a difference in realm pride, than the actual realm did. I really don't care if people who decide to limit themselves to 1/3rd of the game get a small bonus for their perceived loyalty, as it has no negative effect on me, but anything that would limit people from choosing to move around when they want to I will always oppose, provided the player base doesn't magically quadruple, and more Phoenix servers start cropping up.

Tue 16 Jun 2020 8:27 PM by Bradekes

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 5:46 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 4:49 PM
Why not just have a way to activate your account for a specific realm. Like it locks you to that realm and you cannot switch unless you delete all your toons but you get a good bonus to rps,exp,gold.

That way all of the ones that want to switch realms can enjoy that but the ones who stick to only one can enjoy being there and their bonuses would actually be warranted instead of those bonuses ever getting abused

Absolutely.

We will have the population of Uthgard in no time!!!

this was as a choice for people who want that option not everyone did you read it? Lol.. Idc either way just saying i don't want my ability to xrealm to be taken away and I don't want abusable bonuses for people who stick to a realm for a short period of time

Tue 16 Jun 2020 10:01 PM by Helwyr

The Skies Asunder wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 5:47 PM
There is really no point in this argument anymore. There aren't enough players, and there is only one server. The time sink of Live DAoC in the early 2000s had as much to do with realm pride as anything else. None of us are spending hundreds of hours to get to level 50, and hundreds more to get a template and figure out all the mechanics of the game. The virtual landscape is different now with voice chats, and text servers such as Discord. We all communicate with each other, and the people you played with made more of a difference in realm pride, than the actual realm did. I really don't care if people who decide to limit themselves to 1/3rd of the game get a small bonus for their perceived loyalty, as it has no negative effect on me, but anything that would limit people from choosing to move around when they want to I will always oppose, provided the player base doesn't magically quadruple, and more Phoenix servers start cropping up.

If what you say is unequivocally correct then the Realm vs Realm games themselves are dead, outdated and dysfunctional. MJ and the rest of Citystate games are wasting their time and investors money making Camelot Unchained. The guys that run Phoenix made a critical mistake making the server classic RvR DAoC, and should have gone FFA and encouraged Guild vs Guild, or perhaps not bothered with this project at all. I'm not being facetious in saying that if Realm loyalty doesn't matter Phoenix should go FFA, guild based. That's surely the logical path if Realms just don't matter as you and others are suggesting.

On the other hand perhaps in effect all your stating is some of the challenges to RvR games in today's gaming environment, and that what's required if we still want to play RvR games is very heavy handed game mechanics to push/motivate players into an RvR mindset. Because lets be frank here most gamers just flow towards whatever is easiest, if they're rewarded for being loyal to their chosen realm that's what they will do. DaoC is flawed in this regard in that the whole 8man concept is group orientated first, guild second, and Realm barely at all, and that's the most rewarded way to play the game with the current mechanics. If gamers' individual rewards, success, and the advancement/power of their character is much more tied to the success of their chosen realm, things like the existence of Discord doesn't matter nearly as much.

Tue 16 Jun 2020 10:07 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Helwyr wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 10:01 PM
Camelot Unchained.

Best case scenario, that game is vaporware.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 4:54 PM by The Skies Asunder

Helwyr wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 10:01 PM
The Skies Asunder wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 5:47 PM
There is really no point in this argument anymore. There aren't enough players, and there is only one server. The time sink of Live DAoC in the early 2000s had as much to do with realm pride as anything else. None of us are spending hundreds of hours to get to level 50, and hundreds more to get a template and figure out all the mechanics of the game. The virtual landscape is different now with voice chats, and text servers such as Discord. We all communicate with each other, and the people you played with made more of a difference in realm pride, than the actual realm did. I really don't care if people who decide to limit themselves to 1/3rd of the game get a small bonus for their perceived loyalty, as it has no negative effect on me, but anything that would limit people from choosing to move around when they want to I will always oppose, provided the player base doesn't magically quadruple, and more Phoenix servers start cropping up.

If what you say is unequivocally correct then the Realm vs Realm games themselves are dead, outdated and dysfunctional. MJ and the rest of Citystate games are wasting their time and investors money making Camelot Unchained. The guys that run Phoenix made a critical mistake making the server classic RvR DAoC, and should have gone FFA and encouraged Guild vs Guild, or perhaps not bothered with this project at all. I'm not being facetious in saying that if Realm loyalty doesn't matter Phoenix should go FFA, guild based. That's surely the logical path if Realms just don't matter as you and others are suggesting.

On the other hand perhaps in effect all your stating is some of the challenges to RvR games in today's gaming environment, and that what's required if we still want to play RvR games is very heavy handed game mechanics to push/motivate players into an RvR mindset. Because lets be frank here most gamers just flow towards whatever is easiest, if they're rewarded for being loyal to their chosen realm that's what they will do. DaoC is flawed in this regard in that the whole 8man concept is group orientated first, guild second, and Realm barely at all, and that's the most rewarded way to play the game with the current mechanics. If gamers' individual rewards, success, and the advancement/power of their character is much more tied to the success of their chosen realm, things like the existence of Discord doesn't matter nearly as much.

I think these are problems any modern RvR game would face, but they are even bigger problems for a game as old as DAoC. People are familiar with everything in the game, and a large portion of the community know each other already. If there was enough players to sustain three servers, we would likely see a bit more realm pride, though I am unsure of the amount honestly. A new game with tons of players, and the inability to switch sides on the same server at all would do a better job fostering the feeling you're looking for, but it just isn't feasible on one server.