Scouts - Phoenix Freeshard

I understand the love for the bow, thx. But scouts are now à big joke. Stun-snare and engage at 96% godlike! Whit their bow up now, in group if you dont kill scout fast you die rapidly, and you even Die when he engage you lolll how can we manage that?.. so imagine à stealth group now whit minstrel-scout and a inf.... no chance

Tytyty

Thu 7 May 2020 6:43 AM by Sepplord

to be honest, you are completely correct, but it really isn't as if much has changed

Alb-stealthergroups were completely in a different league compared to hib/mid stealthgroups due to minstrel/scout-utility before. Giving archers a bit more damage doesn't change that

Minstrel brings melodies, SoS, mezz which will win the fight either way, unless the alb-group is heavily outskilled

Thu 7 May 2020 9:06 AM by Noashakra

We should get rid of this no immunity root, it's useless for solo, it makes them just harder to kill and flee, it's useless to kill any class that has accept to an interurpt like a shot bow, a charge dd or whatever.
Ah yeah it's great to zerg though.

Thu 7 May 2020 9:33 AM by CubanXv

Sounds like the entire point of why they introduced the change. Scouts were and are still being eaten alive by anything with purge up and a reliable snare that they do not waste like fools. Harder to kill for sure, but we are not invulnerable not by a mile. Every class has a tool kit that can destroy something else, save for supports, but their role is in the name. Each class has a counter of some sort, this shield snare is not a hard counter to anything. It was a needed QoL for them here, with the abundance of QoL given elsewhere the scout was lacking heavily. This style takes HUGE amounts of endurance and against anything that has any defense, evade parry block what have you, you are very likely to burn all of it and not land a one.

Thu 7 May 2020 10:18 AM by Khogor

Sounds funny. An asassin beating Scout eyes closed is Ok!

Desease , Snare are applied automatically so gg even if the Scout starts with critshot. IP and Purge up maybe Scout win but still this was mostly rp for the Asassin.

Snare style introduced....Asassin still beating Scout , but fight takes longer due to the waitin time in the first root, after which the Scout is at 50% non the less, due to debuffs ans dot + 1-2 Melee hits till you get out of melee range.

Now the damage has been "normalized"

and the Scout is the Op-Monster of Doom.

Try to imagine the amount of damage an asassin does with pa +follow ore in 3.x seconds. and then think again.

Still I think balancing chars on their potentio grp Play is Nonsens.

Thu 7 May 2020 10:39 AM by Noashakra

This style being 99% AND 14s and with no immunity is a joke. It makes the scout unkillable by any class without an anytime root/snare.
How is that fair? at least make an immunity on it if you want to keep it as it is.

Thu 7 May 2020 11:09 AM by Razur Ur

I ask me why got a ns/sb/infi a anytimer snare ala garotte? and not a backsnare + follow style snare?
i vote for remove disease or remove garotte from steahlther!

Thu 7 May 2020 11:32 AM by Adwaenyth

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:09 AM
I ask me why got a ns/sb/infi a anytimer snare ala garotte? and not a backsnare + follow style snare?
i vote for remove disease or remove garotte from steahlther!

Yeah, and the grass is always greener on the other side, isn't it?

Thu 7 May 2020 11:35 AM by Razur Ur

Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:32 AM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:09 AM
I ask me why got a ns/sb/infi a anytimer snare ala garotte? and not a backsnare + follow style snare?
i vote for remove disease or remove garotte from steahlther!

Yeah, and the grass is always greener on the other side, isn't it?

i do not understand your comparison ;-), because my suggestion would affect every realm.

Thu 7 May 2020 11:43 AM by Adwaenyth

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:35 AM
Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:32 AM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:09 AM
I ask me why got a ns/sb/infi a anytimer snare ala garotte? and not a backsnare + follow style snare?
i vote for remove disease or remove garotte from steahlther!

Yeah, and the grass is always greener on the other side, isn't it?

i do not understand your comparison ;-), because my suggestion would affect every realm.

Oh yeah, while we're changing that, give them the hybrid tank specline of the respective realm and chain or scale armor... and while we're at it, just scrap the whole class idea and make everything the same. But I guess even then the whining about <insert class that is not the own> wouldn't stop.

Thu 7 May 2020 12:02 PM by Siouxsie

Now that bow damage is better, remove the stupid and shortsighted lvl 45 shield root style.

Thu 7 May 2020 12:08 PM by Razur Ur

Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:43 AM
Oh yeah, while we're changing that, give them the hybrid tank specline of the respective realm and chain or scale armor... and while we're at it, just scrap the whole class idea and make everything the same. But I guess even then the whining about <insert class that is not the own> wouldn't stop.

what a nonesense sorry ;-/ if you give scale/chain the stealther how hybrid then give hybrid plz evade5 ;-). you cannot compare apples with pears! and a good stealther
does not need garotte spam or disease!

Thu 7 May 2020 12:56 PM by Adwaenyth

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 12:08 PM
Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:43 AM
Oh yeah, while we're changing that, give them the hybrid tank specline of the respective realm and chain or scale armor... and while we're at it, just scrap the whole class idea and make everything the same. But I guess even then the whining about <insert class that is not the own> wouldn't stop.

what a nonesense sorry ;-/ if you give scale/chain the stealther how hybrid then give hybrid plz evade5 ;-). you cannot compare apples with pears! and a good stealther
does not need garotte spam or disease!

If the "good" ones don't need it, and you seem to win against the bad ones anyways (otherwise they wouldn't be the bad ones, would they?) what's the problem then?

Thu 7 May 2020 1:13 PM by Sepplord

Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 12:56 PM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 12:08 PM
Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:43 AM
Oh yeah, while we're changing that, give them the hybrid tank specline of the respective realm and chain or scale armor... and while we're at it, just scrap the whole class idea and make everything the same. But I guess even then the whining about <insert class that is not the own> wouldn't stop.

what a nonesense sorry ;-/ if you give scale/chain the stealther how hybrid then give hybrid plz evade5 ;-). you cannot compare apples with pears! and a good stealther
does not need garotte spam or disease!

If the "good" ones don't need it, and you seem to win against the bad ones anyways (otherwise they wouldn't be the bad ones, would they?) what's the problem then?

Lol ^^
You would think at this points he would consider that maybe he is unreasonable...but i am sure he will find a way to avoid reality.
I tried a few times to reason with him but gave up after awhile, it seems though that at least he is insulting people less now, so maybe it wasn't completely futile. Good luck

Thu 7 May 2020 1:36 PM by Adwaenyth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 1:13 PM
Lol ^^
You would think at this points he would consider that maybe he is unreasonable...but i am sure he will find a way to avoid reality.
I tried a few times to reason with him but gave up after awhile, it seems though that at least he is insulting people less now, so maybe it wasn't completely futile. Good luck

I hope that others might learn from his example and I like destroying echo chambers, even if it is just for a moment.

But on topic, the problem is rarely a single ability or even a combination of it. If that actually is that case, the fix (or nerf if you want to call it that way) even on the live servers came rather quickly - and from what I've seen on this server so far, devs seem to be quite fast about fixing obvious issues and seem to make mostly reasonable choices in doing so.

The argument of X, Y or Z being unfair in a 1 vs 1 situation is kinda moot, considering class balance cannot be fully fair without negating all class differences. Also this is an extremly narrow point of view considering hat DAoC always catered to many audiences, being it Zerg, 8v8, small or solo playstyles and then just focusing on "balancing" for a single one of these in favour of one's own class or against class that one does not play.

Besides, with a planned change for a complete style overhaul, it is rather dubious to complain about the combination of one single style and another ability of said class is anything but a single precieved issue now.

Thu 7 May 2020 1:52 PM by Lefreak

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 10:39 AM
This style being 99% AND 14s and with no immunity is a joke. It makes the scout unkillable by any class without an anytime root/snare.
How is that fair? at least make an immunity on it if you want to keep it as it is.

Yes, at least create an immunity or a timer on snare
Too much defence vs the same attact...

Thu 7 May 2020 2:34 PM by Noashakra

Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 1:36 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 1:13 PM
Lol ^^
You would think at this points he would consider that maybe he is unreasonable...but i am sure he will find a way to avoid reality.
I tried a few times to reason with him but gave up after awhile, it seems though that at least he is insulting people less now, so maybe it wasn't completely futile. Good luck

I hope that others might learn from his example and I like destroying echo chambers, even if it is just for a moment.

But on topic, the problem is rarely a single ability or even a combination of it. If that actually is that case, the fix (or nerf if you want to call it that way) even on the live servers came rather quickly - and from what I've seen on this server so far, devs seem to be quite fast about fixing obvious issues and seem to make mostly reasonable choices in doing so.

The argument of X, Y or Z being unfair in a 1 vs 1 situation is kinda moot, considering class balance cannot be fully fair without negating all class differences. Also this is an extremly narrow point of view considering hat DAoC always catered to many audiences, being it Zerg, 8v8, small or solo playstyles and then just focusing on "balancing" for a single one of these in favour of one's own class or against class that one does not play.

Besides, with a planned change for a complete style overhaul, it is rather dubious to complain about the combination of one single style and another ability of said class is anything but a single precieved issue now.

it's useless in 1vs1, no scout won a fight vs a decent person with this root
in zergs this style means you are dead.
I was for this style because I thought scout was needing some tools, but this isn't what they need to perform solo.

Thu 7 May 2020 2:59 PM by Razur Ur

Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 12:56 PM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 12:08 PM
Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:43 AM
Oh yeah, while we're changing that, give them the hybrid tank specline of the respective realm and chain or scale armor... and while we're at it, just scrap the whole class idea and make everything the same. But I guess even then the whining about <insert class that is not the own> wouldn't stop.

what a nonesense sorry ;-/ if you give scale/chain the stealther how hybrid then give hybrid plz evade5 ;-). you cannot compare apples with pears! and a good stealther
does not need garotte spam or disease!

If the "good" ones don't need it, and you seem to win against the bad ones anyways (otherwise they wouldn't be the bad ones, would they?) what's the problem then?

the problem is for me that stealther have to many options for escape with vanish/garotte/disease! can every time open a fight and if the NS/SB/Infi notice that they
beginning to lose the fight vanish or running away after garotte+disease. after every fight vs stealther i can nothing do for 2+ minutes because of fucking disease ;-).
do it no fun with 20% life to staying around because of no health reg and wasted all ra´s.

Thu 7 May 2020 3:24 PM by Lefreak

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 2:59 PM
Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 12:56 PM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 12:08 PM
what a nonesense sorry ;-/ if you give scale/chain the stealther how hybrid then give hybrid plz evade5 ;-). you cannot compare apples with pears! and a good stealther
does not need garotte spam or disease!

If the "good" ones don't need it, and you seem to win against the bad ones anyways (otherwise they wouldn't be the bad ones, would they?) what's the problem then?

the problem is for me that stealther have to many options for escape with vanish/garotte/disease! can every time open a fight and if the NS/SB/Infi notice that they
beginning to lose the fight vanish or running away after garotte+disease. after every fight vs stealther i can nothing do for 2+ minutes because of fucking disease ;-).
do it no fun with 20% life to staying around because of no health reg and wasted all ra´s.

Agree, decease are wayyyy to long. I made a melee Hunter cause of poor bow, but now Bowman receive the love they deserve they can sneak better, thats the style of play they have to use but not to be a HUGE defense in stealth zerg... albs doesnt need that anyway whit stealth on minstrels... i find it absurb

Tytyty
NEW RR7 loll

Thu 7 May 2020 6:15 PM by Noashakra

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 2:59 PM
Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 12:56 PM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 12:08 PM
what a nonesense sorry ;-/ if you give scale/chain the stealther how hybrid then give hybrid plz evade5 ;-). you cannot compare apples with pears! and a good stealther
does not need garotte spam or disease!

If the "good" ones don't need it, and you seem to win against the bad ones anyways (otherwise they wouldn't be the bad ones, would they?) what's the problem then?

the problem is for me that stealther have to many options for escape with vanish/garotte/disease! can every time open a fight and if the NS/SB/Infi notice that they
beginning to lose the fight vanish or running away after garotte+disease. after every fight vs stealther i can nothing do for 2+ minutes because of fucking disease ;-).
do it no fun with 20% life to staying around because of no health reg and wasted all ra´s.

What does it has to do with the scout and the BS snare?

Thu 7 May 2020 6:22 PM by Riac

absolutely nothing. the fact that he has the abil to perma stun a stealther till death and hes crying about vanish??
not sure what stealther is even crazy enough to take a fight with r11 champs, unless youre just known for easy rps like sbrown or something.
tbh im not sure ive ever seen you champ around. where do you normally hang out?

nvm. holy F zerglord why do you even care about vanish? you must be in the zerg 24/7.
https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Razurs

Thu 7 May 2020 11:40 PM by joshisanonymous

Maybe I'm missing something, but 1v1, this doesn't guarantee a win for the scout against any other stealther. At best, it means they have a better chance of getting away from a fight, but even then, if they're running away and you're a hunter or ranger, I don't think they can't simultaneously run away and engage to block your bow, and they'd also have to root your pet if you're a hunter, so you'd have more time to shoot at them. If you're an NS, they can't do anything at all to block your DD. And if you're any assassin, they have to break free from your garrote still, but I guess there really aren't a lot of options after that for SBs and Infs. I'm sure it's annoying, but how is it any worse than any assassin garroting you and running?

In groups, well, I mean, you're fighting a stealth group. Of course you're very likely to die.

Fri 8 May 2020 1:41 AM by Lefreak

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:40 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, but 1v1, this doesn't guarantee a win for the scout against any other stealther. At best, it means they have a better chance of getting away from a fight, but even then, if they're running away and you're a hunter or ranger, I don't think they can't simultaneously run away and engage to block your bow, and they'd also have to root your pet if you're a hunter, so you'd have more time to shoot at them. If you're an NS, they can't do anything at all to block your DD. And if you're any assassin, they have to break free from your garrote still, but I guess there really aren't a lot of options after that for SBs and Infs. I'm sure it's annoying, but how is it any worse than any assassin garroting you and running?

In groups, well, I mean, you're fighting a stealth group. Of course you're very likely to die.

Man, try a fight Loll its a real joke now... run away from scouts. They run forever or they kill you

Fri 8 May 2020 2:08 AM by easytoremember

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:40 PM
And if you're any assassin, they have to break free from your garrote still, but I guess there really aren't a lot of options after that for SBs and Infs. I'm sure it's annoying, but how is it any worse than any assassin garroting you and running?

Infil has xbow
SB has thrown weapon

Fri 8 May 2020 5:38 AM by nkeplinger1

Archery against anything with a shield is null and void. Snare style against any class with range or interrupt is null and void. Everyone on this server has purge 3 i assume, slam purged 7/10 I use it. Every class in this game has a tool kit and the scout has been beat into the ground long enough. Even with damage increase, scouts are still limited in what they can kill. Play an assasin or shield tank and you will eat archers for breakfast lunch and dinner still. Not to mention, every other archer has self buffs, speed boost, or a pet. Gtfo..

Edit - don't forget mastery of the arcane, which scouts do not have access to.

Fri 8 May 2020 6:06 AM by Anelyn77

I am inclined to believe that the problem they have with the scouts is that what used to be fast and free RPs, now can delay the outcome long enough for someone else to add and put the sin in a "delicate" position.

I don't see any problem with increased archery dmg or shield users getting a snare / root, it is a good defensive / utility that is welcome IMHO.

Meanwhile let's address other more important problems, like recent necro pet tether range nerf, with no compensations? Ty! <3

Fri 8 May 2020 6:59 AM by Razur Ur

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 6:15 PM
What does it has to do with the scout and the BS snare?

i can do nothing and do hope that i hitting with my slam before he slam me but i meeting a scout really rare. often i finding hunter but most time not only one
the hunter ^^. Last time i saw a scout who hitting me with this snare style was mainly in the alb zerg.

Fri 8 May 2020 7:28 AM by Razur Ur

Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 6:22 PM
absolutely nothing. the fact that he has the abil to perma stun a stealther till death and hes crying about vanish??
not sure what stealther is even crazy enough to take a fight with r11 champs, unless youre just known for easy rps like sbrown or something.
tbh im not sure ive ever seen you champ around. where do you normally hang out?

nvm. holy F zerglord why do you even care about vanish? you must be in the zerg 24/7.
https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Razurs

You know that static have 10 Minute timer? here everybody acts as if static is always ready! i ask me why attack a stealther a rr11 champ? here not
the champion opens the fight but the stealther! and the more or less well played stealther, don't need a vanish they can leave also thanks to
garotte+disease. and why you flame me with zerger and btw champion is my only hib char ;-).

PS: most time i running with 8man group for 8vs8 or 8vsx around and if i dont find a group then i running solo in frontier. that is the reason for not perfect
solo ra´s am specced. i running solo with det9 ;-).

Fri 8 May 2020 12:27 PM by Lefreak

nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 5:38 AM
Archery against anything with a shield is null and void. Snare style against any class with range or interrupt is null and void. Everyone on this server has purge 3 i assume, slam purged 7/10 I use it. Every class in this game has a tool kit and the scout has been beat into the ground long enough. Even with damage increase, scouts are still limited in what they can kill. Play an assasin or shield tank and you will eat archers for breakfast lunch and dinner still. Not to mention, every other archer has self buffs, speed boost, or a pet. Gtfo..

Edit - don't forget mastery of the arcane, which scouts do not have access to.

Nah Loll you dont fight a scout recently.... i can purge one , not tree times and 0 for my pet. Really big joke

Fri 8 May 2020 2:53 PM by nkeplinger1

Lefreak wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 12:27 PM
nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 5:38 AM
Archery against anything with a shield is null and void. Snare style against any class with range or interrupt is null and void. Everyone on this server has purge 3 i assume, slam purged 7/10 I use it. Every class in this game has a tool kit and the scout has been beat into the ground long enough. Even with damage increase, scouts are still limited in what they can kill. Play an assasin or shield tank and you will eat archers for breakfast lunch and dinner still. Not to mention, every other archer has self buffs, speed boost, or a pet. Gtfo..

Edit - don't forget mastery of the arcane, which scouts do not have access to.

Nah Loll you dont fight a scout recently.... i can purge one , not tree times and 0 for my pet. Really big joke

If you have a pet im assuming you have some form of range, save purge for slam, when the scout roots you, use ranged abilities to interrupt him. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? A pet on top of that? Sounds like you're just a bad player that hasn't figured out a really easy tactic to beat scouts yet.

Fri 8 May 2020 3:12 PM by Lefreak

nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 2:53 PM
Lefreak wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 12:27 PM
nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 5:38 AM
Archery against anything with a shield is null and void. Snare style against any class with range or interrupt is null and void. Everyone on this server has purge 3 i assume, slam purged 7/10 I use it. Every class in this game has a tool kit and the scout has been beat into the ground long enough. Even with damage increase, scouts are still limited in what they can kill. Play an assasin or shield tank and you will eat archers for breakfast lunch and dinner still. Not to mention, every other archer has self buffs, speed boost, or a pet. Gtfo..

Edit - don't forget mastery of the arcane, which scouts do not have access to.

Nah Loll you dont fight a scout recently.... i can purge one , not tree times and 0 for my pet. Really big joke

If you have a pet im assuming you have some form of range, save purge for slam, when the scout roots you, use ranged abilities to interrupt him. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? A pet on top of that? Sounds like you're just a bad player that hasn't figured out a really easy tactic to beat scouts yet.

The bad thing in here is your thinking, a pet is easily dominating for a scout. Timer on pet is way to long vs stun-snare of scout. Engage 96% is godlike

Fri 8 May 2020 3:27 PM by nkeplinger1

Lefreak wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 3:12 PM
nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 2:53 PM
Lefreak wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 12:27 PM
Nah Loll you dont fight a scout recently.... i can purge one , not tree times and 0 for my pet. Really big joke

If you have a pet im assuming you have some form of range, save purge for slam, when the scout roots you, use ranged abilities to interrupt him. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? A pet on top of that? Sounds like you're just a bad player that hasn't figured out a really easy tactic to beat scouts yet.

The bad thing in here is your thinking, a pet is easily dominating for a scout. Timer on pet is way to long vs stun-snare of scout. Engage 96% is godlike

You can't engage while running away on a scout. Im unsure what you're trying to convince me of? After 7 seconds scout snare becomes 50% snare.. meaning you can close distance. Same with your pet. My point stands. You're playing against the scout wrong. Especially if you're playing a hunter w/ 2h rear stun. You can still swing a weapon while snared. Scouts were intended by design to be the better archers between the 3 archer classes. Hunters were designed more towards melee. They have a 2h weapon and a pet, self buffs, mastery of the arcane, etc.

Fri 8 May 2020 3:49 PM by Lefreak

nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 3:27 PM
Lefreak wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 3:12 PM
nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 2:53 PM
If you have a pet im assuming you have some form of range, save purge for slam, when the scout roots you, use ranged abilities to interrupt him. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? A pet on top of that? Sounds like you're just a bad player that hasn't figured out a really easy tactic to beat scouts yet.

The bad thing in here is your thinking, a pet is easily dominating for a scout. Timer on pet is way to long vs stun-snare of scout. Engage 96% is godlike
You can't engage while running away on a scout. Im unsure what you're trying to convince me of? After 7 seconds scout snare becomes 50% snare.. meaning you can close distance. Same with your pet. My point stands. You're playing against the scout wrong. Especially if you're playing a hunter w/ 2h rear stun. You can still swing a weapon while snared. Scouts were intended by design to be the better archers between the 3 archer classes. Hunters were designed more towards melee. They have a 2h weapon and a pet, self buffs, mastery of the arcane, etc.

Try it and comback argue lolll

Fri 8 May 2020 4:29 PM by nkeplinger1

Lefreak wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 3:49 PM
nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 3:27 PM
Lefreak wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 3:12 PM
The bad thing in here is your thinking, a pet is easily dominating for a scout. Timer on pet is way to long vs stun-snare of scout. Engage 96% is godlike
You can't engage while running away on a scout. Im unsure what you're trying to convince me of? After 7 seconds scout snare becomes 50% snare.. meaning you can close distance. Same with your pet. My point stands. You're playing against the scout wrong. Especially if you're playing a hunter w/ 2h rear stun. You can still swing a weapon while snared. Scouts were intended by design to be the better archers between the 3 archer classes. Hunters were designed more towards melee. They have a 2h weapon and a pet, self buffs, mastery of the arcane, etc.

Try it and comback argue lolll

I'm playing a scout right now and many classes still beat me 1v1. Hunters and rangers still beat me 1v1 when played by decent players. So again, maybe rethink how you approach a scout. You've been conditioned to think 1v1 with a scout was an easy win for so long that now that they have a fighters chance, you can't wrap your head around a tactic to win.

Fri 8 May 2020 6:12 PM by Lefreak

nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 4:29 PM
Lefreak wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 3:49 PM
nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 3:27 PM
You can't engage while running away on a scout. Im unsure what you're trying to convince me of? After 7 seconds scout snare becomes 50% snare.. meaning you can close distance. Same with your pet. My point stands. You're playing against the scout wrong. Especially if you're playing a hunter w/ 2h rear stun. You can still swing a weapon while snared. Scouts were intended by design to be the better archers between the 3 archer classes. Hunters were designed more towards melee. They have a 2h weapon and a pet, self buffs, mastery of the arcane, etc.

Try it and comback argue lolll
I'm playing a scout right now and many classes still beat me 1v1. Hunters and rangers still beat me 1v1 when played by decent players. So again, maybe rethink how you approach a scout. You've been conditioned to think 1v1 with a scout was an easy win for so long that now that they have a fighters chance, you can't wrap your head around a tactic to win.
[/qC

Can you defend your point whitout bicthing ? Nah... its not skills , it is the facility of playing you just get and you dont admit it. I know from the start that you are a scout

Fri 8 May 2020 6:40 PM by nkeplinger1

Lefreak wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 6:12 PM
nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 4:29 PM
Lefreak wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 3:49 PM
Try it and comback argue lolll
I'm playing a scout right now and many classes still beat me 1v1. Hunters and rangers still beat me 1v1 when played by decent players. So again, maybe rethink how you approach a scout. You've been conditioned to think 1v1 with a scout was an easy win for so long that now that they have a fighters chance, you can't wrap your head around a tactic to win.
[/qC

Can you defend your point whitout bicthing ? Nah... its not skills , it is the facility of playing you just get and you dont admit it. I know from the start that you are a scout

Lol I'm the one bitching? Refer back to your first post. You're a bad player. Get over it. Scout is beatable with many classes in the game, even after archery change. Youre just really bad at playing your hunter..

Fri 8 May 2020 8:12 PM by Lefreak

nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 6:40 PM
Lefreak wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 6:12 PM
nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 4:29 PM
I'm playing a scout right now and many classes still beat me 1v1. Hunters and rangers still beat me 1v1 when played by decent players. So again, maybe rethink how you approach a scout. You've been conditioned to think 1v1 with a scout was an easy win for so long that now that they have a fighters chance, you can't wrap your head around a tactic to win.
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Can you defend your point whitout bicthing ? Nah... its not skills , it is the facility of playing you just get and you dont admit it. I know from the start that you are a scout
I understand your fat lazy fingers of Albs Ezmode player defending the indefensible .

Sat 9 May 2020 3:43 AM by gotwqqd

Scouts were so bad before no one bothered thinking about tactics fighting them

Given a bit of time you will figure out how to beat them or elude them

Sat 9 May 2020 5:16 PM by Strikejk

As the latest patching showed: You cant fix scouts by making every archer better, because they will still suck in comparison to the others.
If you want to improve the scouts its rather simple.

-give them self buffs in one of their lines (stealth?)
Problem solved.

Scouts will always suck if they cant self buff like the other 2 realms. And trying to balance selfbuffs who change a lot of variables vs something completely different for the scout is a pain in the butt and honestly not needed. Just give them selfbuffs, problem solved.

Sat 9 May 2020 5:36 PM by nkeplinger1

Strikejk wrote: ↑
Sat 9 May 2020 5:16 PM
As the latest patching showed: You cant fix scouts by making every archer better, because they will still suck in comparison to the others.
If you want to improve the scouts its rather simple.

-give them self buffs in one of their lines (stealth?)
Problem solved.

Scouts will always suck if they cant self buff like the other 2 realms. And trying to balance selfbuffs who change a lot of variables vs something completely different for the scout is a pain in the butt and honestly not needed. Just give them selfbuffs, problem solved.

I do agree that hunters and rangers are still better than scouts. But this patch more than ever makes hunters and rangers choose between melee or archery. Specing high archery most likely means specing low weapon. When these classes were forced to run hybrid specs, it allowed hunter and ranger to have comparable archery skills to scouts and have better melee than scouts. Scouts aren't a dread to play anymore.

Sat 9 May 2020 5:43 PM by Quik

Strikejk wrote: ↑
Sat 9 May 2020 5:16 PM
-give them self buffs in one of their lines (stealth?)
Problem solved.

Yeah this is fair.

If you give scouts self buffs like hunter/ranger, then shouldn't you give hunter/ranger shield spec ability and put it in their stealth line as well?

Sat 9 May 2020 5:43 PM by Horus

Scouts are now the best archer after the latest archery tweak.

Why? Ranged defense now becomes alot more important as you will see many more ranged specced archers than melee specced archers.

The scout is best equipped to deal with bow specced enemy archers due to shield....and now their bow dmg has increased like other archers.

And now slam+ crit shot is quite mighty. Sure some will purge, but not all the time.

Sat 9 May 2020 5:54 PM by Khogor

I still think asassins are in a very good Spot 1v1 against Scouts. Those crits posted throughout the forums dont come from R1 Scouts I bet.

And If you dont know how to counter that snare , perhabs start looking at your own class instead of calling for nerfs.

Without any disrespect to Someone I talked to yesterday
Friend and foe , ist is suprising how few People know their own class abilities.

Sat 9 May 2020 6:51 PM by Strikejk

Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 9 May 2020 5:43 PM
Strikejk wrote: ↑
Sat 9 May 2020 5:16 PM
-give them self buffs in one of their lines (stealth?)
Problem solved.

Yeah this is fair.

If you give scouts self buffs like hunter/ranger, then shouldn't you give hunter/ranger shield spec ability and put it in their stealth line as well?

Scouts have shields. Hunter have pets. Ranger have dual wield..

You were saying?

Sat 9 May 2020 8:07 PM by Quik

Strikejk wrote: ↑
Sat 9 May 2020 6:51 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 9 May 2020 5:43 PM
Strikejk wrote: ↑
Sat 9 May 2020 5:16 PM
-give them self buffs in one of their lines (stealth?)
Problem solved.

Yeah this is fair.

If you give scouts self buffs like hunter/ranger, then shouldn't you give hunter/ranger shield spec ability and put it in their stealth line as well?

Scouts have shields. Hunter have pets. Ranger have dual wield..

You were saying?

LOL yeah hunter pets...

Tell ya what...take the uber hunter pet and give to scout, then give shield to hunter and I would call that fair.

The shield snare style is a million times better then anything the uber hunter pet offers. Yeah it can be used as interrupts but never seems to work that way as most people just stun it or root it and it is out of the fight, or melee just laugh as it plinks them for what...40-60 dmg a hit maybe? I don't even know because it has never posed a threat.

Sat 9 May 2020 8:20 PM by Strikejk

Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 9 May 2020 8:07 PM
Strikejk wrote: ↑
Sat 9 May 2020 6:51 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 9 May 2020 5:43 PM
Yeah this is fair.

If you give scouts self buffs like hunter/ranger, then shouldn't you give hunter/ranger shield spec ability and put it in their stealth line as well?

Scouts have shields. Hunter have pets. Ranger have dual wield..

You were saying?

LOL yeah hunter pets...

Tell ya what...take the uber hunter pet and give to scout, then give shield to hunter and I would call that fair.

The shield snare style is a million times better then anything the uber hunter pet offers. Yeah it can be used as interrupts but never seems to work that way as most people just stun it or root it and it is out of the fight, or melee just laugh as it plinks them for what...40-60 dmg a hit maybe? I don't even know because it has never posed a threat.

The point that you failed to see was that there already is a balance dynamik between the realms for shields/dualwield/pet. Ofc in normal daoc fashion they all get a "different" tool and you can argue all day what tool is better in which situation, which ofc varies all the time depending on terrain, opponents, engagement, etc.

This however means that there is no (more) dynamik balance between the realms for the self buffs. Originally scout did more damage, the others got self buff. Now all do roughly equal high damage. All have roughly equally slow bows (scouts were slowest, which further increased dmg difference) but not everyone got self buffs.
That is where the balance issue originates from.

And funnily enough I also agree with what happened in the beta when scout got their dmg nerfed and other realms also got slow bows too, cause balancing raw dmg vs selfbuffs is a terrible way to do. The only problem that remains is that they eqaulized the damage and weapon speed but not the self buffs.

Sat 9 May 2020 9:08 PM by Khogor

Let us try it a different way :

Wizzard R3 Dex 3 , Art 4 : Bolts 5xx + 2xx Castspeed 2,5 (Tooltip) and below , Ice Base Nuke 2xx or debuffed 4xx Castespeed 2,6 (Tooltip) , to dumb to calc right

Infi R 4 Qui 3 , MoA 3 : Pa 4xx MH + 6X Offhand , Garotte 1xx MH + 5x offhand same with posi Styles MH around 100 OG 5-60+ Swing speed should be around 2,0
+Poison Debuff WF/Kon (118) + LifeBane 64 per Tick +Bleed 7 per Tick

Arms R5 No Damage Increasing Ra´s[/u] : Anytime Snare (Pole 5,5 Speed) 25x , Back Kombo 27x +3xx Swing Speed Here is around 3,44 !
Anytime Snare 27x , Back Kombo 3xx+32x , Swing 3,7 on 6.0 Pole
Scout R7 50 Bow 45 Shield Qui4 , MoA 4 , Dex 5 : Crit 3,9 Sec 6xx Dam , Normal 3.2 sec 34x , Rapid 1,6 round 17x

I am aware those numbers are not representative and vary a lot , also my Ra´s chosen are not 100% correct and so on. But I would say the damage itself , if you consider it is ruptable like a caster but without the Quickcast ( no i dont want Quickcast) is not nearly as op as people are trying to tell you.
Critshot only working on non combat targets.

The Wizz nukes Way faster AND higher , and even the "Def-Tank" on 3,44 Swing gets close to the normal shot.

With that out of the way , I admit better "Def" than Wizzard or Infi (fI it is better in the first place not sure here on the evade %)

So we narrowed it down to ? 1141 WF (not debuffed) with wich you try to land the snare style ? It is strong woun´t argue about it, but also it leaves you on low endu and lands not before 2-3 attemps ( also big Karma influence here).

So what can happen , when you get the enemy into that snare ?

Tank : Throwing Weapon to rupt at ? 1000 or 1500 range ? not sure here . Active Block , Light tanks were the more easey kills also before this style .
1500 Champ DD , Thane DD´s what did I miss ?
Enemy Archer , why would you even try to land this thing ?
Asassin SB Throwing Weapon , Nightshade NUKE! ....against high Sins with desease on you and Lifebane + viper you will loose 30-40% TP till you get one shot off.

Correct me on each and everything of the above mentioned things please I will have missed a lot. But I dont see the OP fact everyone is talking about , strong package atm I´ll admid.

And last but not least ! 2 years scout was easey rp , an archer add on a grp fight , was an annoying rupt but no real thread damage wise. The Scouts beeing in RvR yesterday since the patch , they have been there before but never noticed ore a threat. And now because of the long deserved dam buff everyone freaks out
because you at least you have to think what you do in a fight against a scout.

Apart from that Hunter + Rager with buffs have like what 20-30 points higher stats

?

Cmon guys stay faire

! Just because now your win/loose is at 50/50 no need for extra handkerchieve....while playing DAoC.

See you out there Mordack

And as I see the first GM Help is already in game...and the damage has been reduced already ....GZ whiners !
It is kind of sad to see the Dev´s here only seem to react to the most mimimi instead of everything else.