PETITION: Bring RvR Task participation back to PVP Zone

Leave the rps gain at 75% of normal, but bring back task participation please.

Wed 6 May 2020 8:28 AM by inoeth

i would say kill rp 100% and no task

Wed 6 May 2020 8:59 AM by canzian

or 100% rp or task... both is to much

Wed 6 May 2020 9:15 AM by inoeth

canzian wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:59 AM
or 100% rp or task... both is to much

i dont think its too much, bur i alrdy can hear the zerg community again complaining about rp farming LOL
would be a compromise in my eyes

Wed 6 May 2020 9:46 AM by thirian24

Agreed. This zone took a shit within a 24hr time period. If people have little to no reward, they will not come. They just go back to zerging keeps and smalls. This already shows. Day one, booming. Day 2, dead. Rofl.

Wed 6 May 2020 11:11 AM by

Uthred

That will not happen.

Kind of confusing to read all the comments of killing the zone just because of 25% less rps and no more task rps, which is something like 500 extra rps every 30 mins when rr 6+.

So, why did we kill the zone? Because you have way more and way "easier" action than in normal RvR. You port in and it only takes very few mins if not even less, to have a fight which is mostly vs the same group size. Even if there are adds, they are way easier to handle than in RvR as the numbers arent that high like in the frontiers.

If you die, you just need to click the healer, the recharger, the hastener and your buff potions and 30 secs later you are back in the fight zone. This was leading to way higher rps/h than in RvR and thats why we reduced the rps for kills from 100% to 75%. You have the advantage and safety of (more or less) equal numbers, plus the advantage of having fights way faster than in RvR and therefor you got the "disadvantage" of getting 25% less rps and no task credit in there (which you still can easily get via porting in and out once every 30 mins). Not to mention the huge advantage of switching realms instantly, if you want to build groups and some classes are missing.

On an ironic sidenote, before the zone was open everybody was excited for equal fights, to build new setups and was happy about the fact, that you cant get steamrolled by large numbers in there. And now? Everythings bad because of 25% less rps. After reading all the feedback, you may could get the impression that your community is in the end just like the "shitty zergers", you are only playing for rps and not for the fights like you are pretending to do? /ponder

Wed 6 May 2020 11:18 AM by EscapeArtist

Absolutely. All the nice fighters who wanted this zone always claimed it's about the clean nice fair fights and not the rps.

And now you scream cause you don't get enough rps here? Finally all can see that it's not about the nice fair fights. It's just about easy rps.

I did not play yet after the rp reducing but i think even 75% is still to much for the instant action.
You got a 99% secure chance to get an 1vs1 in 5 minutes with the oped 1vs1 class of your choice.

The real open rvr should be way more rewarding then this "secure" zone.

imo better make it 25-50% and do not risk to kill frontier rvr.

Wed 6 May 2020 11:19 AM by Muse

I think the biggest issue is the "Duelling" rules, that player enforce on their own due to your statement with the "choose to fight or not to fight".
Apparently everyone gets demolished by everyone when you start a fight without bow or anything and the adders just go their way without attacking each other.
this leads to a constant overkill of bds minst champs and you get 0 rps bec you get steamrolled if you want to "PvP" and not to duel.

Without the participation you are on what, like 5k / hr if you are no champ, minst or bd.
Either you implement a rule where ppl have to fight each other or the complain will go on.

Wed 6 May 2020 11:40 AM by CubanXv

The ONLY problem is the people who refuse to fight unless at 100% and /bowed or /kiss idk what these freaks are on about. As stated , the return to action is disgustingly fast and this could be loads more fun without the monster egos on these tools. While the first day of RPs was fantastic. The second day was absolutely still worth my time. I am having tons of fun in the zones even with the flames and dueler queens QQ'ing for every disturbance in their pristine ecosystem of ego stroking. The task never made sense in that zone to begin with, we did not participate in RVR techinically and I was very confused when I got my first tick. Stoked about a HUGE participation tick but I knew it was overtuned as hell. Those dueler queens farmed it up.

Wed 6 May 2020 11:45 AM by DarkDavion

Muse wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 11:19 AM
I think the biggest issue is the "Duelling" rules, that player enforce on their own due to your statement with the "choose to fight or not to fight".
Apparently everyone gets demolished by everyone when you start a fight without bow or anything and the adders just go their way without attacking each other.
this leads to a constant overkill of bds minst champs and you get 0 rps bec you get steamrolled if you want to "PvP" and not to duel.

Without the participation you are on what, like 5k / hr if you are no champ, minst or bd.
Either you implement a rule where ppl have to fight each other or the complain will go on.

75% RP is perfectly fine to me. I have Champ and Ench. Ppl complaing about champ suond extremely retarded to me, champ playing bad can smash 80%of melee (not good friars, paladins reavers or high RR stealthers) but got literally destroyed by all pet casters (SM, BD, cabalists enchs, necrosetc..), so full of Champs? Adapt log your caster or make one. With my Champ I destroyed all others Champs, 99%win rate,and they stop fighting with me, a lot of ppl is just bad. QQ about an easy counterable class is just retarded. Same thing for casters, ez counterable by stealthers and casters vs casters fine too. The only class over the top is the minstrel that can ez fu. Ck all the others, but I am complaing about minstrel not from now but from a long time.. Just too much utility and too good alone, in small man, in stealther group and in 8vs8. Minstrel has no counter

Wed 6 May 2020 12:31 PM by Muse

DarkDavion wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 11:45 AM
Muse wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 11:19 AM
I think the biggest issue is the "Duelling" rules, that player enforce on their own due to your statement with the "choose to fight or not to fight".
Apparently everyone gets demolished by everyone when you start a fight without bow or anything and the adders just go their way without attacking each other.
this leads to a constant overkill of bds minst champs and you get 0 rps bec you get steamrolled if you want to "PvP" and not to duel.

Without the participation you are on what, like 5k / hr if you are no champ, minst or bd.
Either you implement a rule where ppl have to fight each other or the complain will go on.
75% RP is perfectly fine to me. I have Champ and Ench. Ppl complaing about champ suond extremely retarded to me, champ playing bad can smash 80%of melee (not good friars, paladins reavers or high RR stealthers) but got literally destroyed by all pet casters (SM, BD, cabalists enchs, necrosetc..), so full of Champs? Adapt log your caster or make one. With my Champ I destroyed all others Champs, 99%win rate,and they stop fighting with me, a lot of ppl is just bad. QQ about an easy counterable class is just retarded. Same thing for casters, ez counterable by stealthers and casters vs casters fine too. The only class over the top is the minstrel that can ez fu. Ck all the others, but I am complaing about minstrel not from now but from a long time.. Just too much utility and too good alone, in small man, in stealther group and in 8vs8. Minstrel has no counter

Man you sound like a pure ripper. damn....

ok back to important things. The ruleset turns the zone into /bow me or we ALL will add you down.
This is what makes it uncool, bec there are classes that cant win in a fiar 1on1 against classes like champs/bd/minst/necro so they go FFA and add to kill or get killed. but if ppl turn on you and go their way, simply you disturb your 1on1 you gain 0 rps.

The ruleset should be if you get added in a duel, 1 of 3 ppl should be alive at the end, not 2

Wed 6 May 2020 12:34 PM by Razur Ur

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 11:11 AM
That will not happen.

Kind of confusing to read all the comments of killing the zone just because of 25% less rps and no more task rps, which is something like 500 extra rps every 30 mins when rr 6+.

So, why did we kill the zone? Because you have way more and way "easier" action than in normal RvR. You port in and it only takes very few mins if not even less, to have a fight which is mostly vs the same group size. Even if there are adds, they are way easier to handle than in RvR as the numbers arent that high like in the frontiers.

Faster action rly? there was almost nothing going on in the zone last night. i got after 2 hours 16 Kills and got only 10k rps 5kper hour with rr11 champion and
a causal player with lower rr get lesser rps because of lesser kills per hour. i give you right i had many funny duels but with this low rps i can running in the
normal frontier zone get more rps and have some solo fights too with luck. if you leave it as you did last night, the zone will soon be extinct. because who
wants to waste his time in the long run without having the chance to develop his char with so little rps.

btw after 2 Hours i had 16kills and 3deaths!

Wed 6 May 2020 1:07 PM by gotwqqd

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 11:11 AM
That will not happen.

Kind of confusing to read all the comments of killing the zone just because of 25% less rps and no more task rps, which is something like 500 extra rps every 30 mins when rr 6+.

So, why did we kill the zone? Because you have way more and way "easier" action than in normal RvR. You port in and it only takes very few mins if not even less, to have a fight which is mostly vs the same group size. Even if there are adds, they are way easier to handle than in RvR as the numbers arent that high like in the frontiers.

If you die, you just need to click the healer, the recharger, the hastener and your buff potions and 30 secs later you are back in the fight zone. This was leading to way higher rps/h than in RvR and thats why we reduced the rps for kills from 100% to 75%. You have the advantage and safety of (more or less) equal numbers, plus the advantage of having fights way faster than in RvR and therefor you got the "disadvantage" of getting 25% less rps and no task credit in there (which you still can easily get via porting in and out once every 30 mins). Not to mention the huge advantage of switching realms instantly, if you want to build groups and some classes are missing.

On an ironic sidenote, before the zone was open everybody was excited for equal fights, to build new setups and was happy about the fact, that you cant get steamrolled by large numbers in there. And now? Everythings bad because of 25% less rps. After reading all the feedback, you may could get the impression that your community is in the end just like the "shitty zergers", you are only playing for rps and not for the fights like you are pretending to do? /ponder

See

Spoonfed

Wed 6 May 2020 1:38 PM by Catkain

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 11:11 AM
That will not happen.

Kind of confusing to read all the comments of killing the zone just because of 25% less rps and no more task rps, which is something like 500 extra rps every 30 mins when rr 6+.

That certainly was not what I meant, but maybe you are referring to other threads.

So, why did we kill the zone? Because you have way more and way "easier" action than in normal RvR. You port in and it only takes very few mins if not even less, to have a fight which is mostly vs the same group size. Even if there are adds, they are way easier to handle than in RvR as the numbers arent that high like in the frontiers.

That is a valid point for reducing rp gain, yes. I am not saying rp gain should be the same as in "normal" RvR.

If you die, you just need to click the healer, the recharger, the hastener and your buff potions and 30 secs later you are back in the fight zone. This was leading to way higher rps/h than in RvR and thats why we reduced the rps for kills from 100% to 75%. You have the advantage and safety of (more or less) equal numbers, plus the advantage of having fights way faster than in RvR and therefor you got the "disadvantage" of getting 25% less rps and no task credit in there (which you still can easily get via porting in and out once every 30 mins). Not to mention the huge advantage of switching realms instantly, if you want to build groups and some classes are missing.

Today I did 3 straight hours of this zone solo. I ended up at 4500/hr. This is very bad compared to what i get in "normal" RvR. I would say that I can consistently hold 10 000/hr out there. Again, this is not a big problem for me. Now keep in mind that my class is one of the clearly strongest soloers and I am a fully solo-spec RR10L9. I struggled to get to 4500/hr and would be surprised in a lower rank skald was able to maintain any similar avg.

The main problem i have with the current ruleset (75% and no task) is that people who dont win a lot of fights, get VERY low rps/hr. In some cases you could be in the zone for a long long time and fight several fights and be left with 0. Getting no reward for participation does not hurt me or the other high rank soloers, it hurts anyone else who wants to join in.

Kept as it is, the zone serves less and less purpose for the general population and eventually I think only a handful of very high rank soloers of certain classes will come here. Maybe this is as intended? But at that point, I would not be interested to use the zone and would just resume with "normal" RvR. The zone has potential to be great fun, but if the intent is to keep as is, I feel like that potential is wasted.

On an ironic sidenote, before the zone was open everybody was excited for equal fights, to build new setups and was happy about the fact, that you cant get steamrolled by large numbers in there. And now? Everythings bad because of 25% less rps. After reading all the feedback, you may could get the impression that your community is in the end just like the "shitty zergers", you are only playing for rps and not for the fights like you are pretending to do? /ponder

Some direct and honest, personal feedback Uthred: Your time, effort and reply to my post was appreciated. The extra salt is not. You and your colleagues are doing good work with this server, please dont feel like we are attacking you personally by raising concerns or offering feedback. Stay happy brother, we are grateful for Phoenix and just like you, we want the best possible for our server.

Wed 6 May 2020 1:55 PM by inoeth

did several runs with my lower RRs last night, spend maybe 2h there and lost every fight because only necros/bd/champs there if you find anyone at all, guess what = 0 RP

why would any casual go there when chances are high that you absolutely waste your time there. first night was great though, lots of fun, lots of ppl.... yeah for sure some morons that abused this, but i dont think the majority did.

Wed 6 May 2020 2:03 PM by thirian24

I agree with Catkain.

I would agree that the first day the RPs were on the high side. But perhaps that was because so many people were trying this "new thing?" Why couldn't the sample data come not from 24hr, and wait until the new wore off and the population went down to a normal state.

A few things hurt this, like Catkain already pointed out.

1. Reduced RPs. This is fine for the top of the food chain players, but the newish people that way to try their hand at soloing or whatever, will most likely earn little to nothing.

2. No participation credit. Read #1.

3. Those 2 things above really hurt the population. With no population, nobody to kill, nobody to really fight. So now the third thing that hurts is making it 2 zones. This kills the none speed classes and makes everyone meet up in one area for duels, which become extremely stale very quickly.

The first day this zone was implemented, I had the most fun that I think I've ever had. The action was amazing. Tons of fights all day long. Nobody was waiting for cool downs, nobody was really dueling. It was pure organic fights which was awesome. so many people that I interacted with were having a blast. Now? You find duels at the 2 portals with the same 5-10 people. Which, if that's what you intended for us, then so be it. I'll be there. I'll be there because you were grateful enough to create something for us and I intended to utilize it. I apologize if any of my posts came across as shitty, that was not my intention.

Wed 6 May 2020 2:07 PM by Noashakra

I did 2000 rps in 45mn some nice duels, lost a few which is fine. But man getting cheesed and added by BD, necros and ministrels (thank you for giving them red pets) is getting old. They are the classes that should get an rp cap... Maybe you would see less of them.

And duels at the portal are lame. It's what kill those zones all the time.

Wed 6 May 2020 2:14 PM by shintacki

Just my 2 cents but the reduced RPs in the smallman zone didnt really bother me. I was just glad to get a few good fights against equally sized groups for the first time in months. I dont get how participation credit is even a big deal to anyone, at rr8 Im getting less than 400rps per task tick, thats like 2 kills in the pvp zone even with the reduced rps there. Definitely not a deal breaker for me. Do I want more RPs? Yeah, obviously that would be nice, but I wouldnt go to the pvp zone less because it doesnt give you task credit.

Wed 6 May 2020 2:24 PM by Sepplord

shintacki wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 2:14 PM
Just my 2 cents but the reduced RPs in the smallman zone didnt really bother me. I was just glad to get a few good fights against equally sized groups for the first time in months. I dont get how participation credit is even a big deal to anyone, at rr8 Im getting less than 400rps per task tick, thats like 2 kills in the pvp zone even with the reduced rps there. Definitely not a deal breaker for me. Do I want more RPs? Yeah, obviously that would be nice, but I wouldnt go to the pvp zone less because it doesnt give you task credit.

I agree with the decision to nerf the RP, but for explanatin why everyone is crying:

what you are talking about is the base-tick for participating at all. Same for everyone and only influenced by your RR-modificator. But when fighting/killing in the PvP-zone gives participation, then your variable "tick" will also go up with every enemy interaction.
Since there is almost no downtime and lots of killing participation ticks must have been REALLY huge before the nerf

Wed 6 May 2020 2:29 PM by evert

So basically you guys want a bunch of low RR guys to come and lose to you. Fair fights all around!

Wed 6 May 2020 2:32 PM by shintacki

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 2:24 PM
shintacki wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 2:14 PM
Just my 2 cents but the reduced RPs in the smallman zone didnt really bother me. I was just glad to get a few good fights against equally sized groups for the first time in months. I dont get how participation credit is even a big deal to anyone, at rr8 Im getting less than 400rps per task tick, thats like 2 kills in the pvp zone even with the reduced rps there. Definitely not a deal breaker for me. Do I want more RPs? Yeah, obviously that would be nice, but I wouldnt go to the pvp zone less because it doesnt give you task credit.

I agree with the decision to nerf the RP, but for explanatin why everyone is crying:

what you are talking about is the base-tick for participating at all. Same for everyone and only influenced by your RR-modificator. But when fighting/killing in the PvP-zone gives participation, then your variable "tick" will also go up with every enemy interaction.
Since there is almost no downtime and lots of killing participation ticks must have been REALLY huge before the nerf

Yeah I could see some of those bonuses to the tasks being absurd in the PvP zones, but I never got to experience that. I also understand that taking away something that people like (more RPs) is always going to be an unpopular decision. I think my sentiment remains the same tho. Im willing to sacrifice my RPs/hour for the availability of fun competitive fights. But not everyone will feel that way which is fine.

Wed 6 May 2020 3:07 PM by pollojack

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 2:24 PM
I agree with the decision to nerf the RP, but for explanatin why everyone is crying:

what you are talking about is the base-tick for participating at all. Same for everyone and only influenced by your RR-modificator. But when fighting/killing in the PvP-zone gives participation, then your variable "tick" will also go up with every enemy interaction.
Since there is almost no downtime and lots of killing participation ticks must have been REALLY huge before the nerf

Yeah, the tick was a big deal for me on NA times. I struggle to find solos and struggle to not get added when I do. Sometimes I will repeat running at RR11s where I have little chance vs 25% crit + viper 5 since it is best to fight someone that I know is roaming an area and get some practice than camp a relic gate that has none leaving it or a dock that has no solos. Between the alb stealth zerg and BDs instantly adding my rp/hr is in the 5k range during US night time.

I am still working on my build to take down BDs as NS but it seems it may be best to vanish if they purge as right now I don't do enough damage to break through their LT if I kill the commander for instance or they simply run to the keep after I kill the commander.

The solo area is great for NA times when there isn't a trail of solos trying to get to the siege. My SB is stronger despite being a RR lower than my NS but I think with enough time and practice I can get the NS to match my theorycraft.

Wed 6 May 2020 3:27 PM by Reklewt

I think that bringing RvR Task participation back to PVP Zone comes down to principle - if we want to have a PVP Zone in the game (I don't really, XRealm stuff isn't really my jam but) so be it, but when you're in the PVP Zone, you're not actually participating in REALM versus REALM. Whether you like to 8v8, zerg, small man, solo, keeptake, etc, the Frontiers is REALM versus REALM. I don't think you should get RvR Task Participation for killing your own realm members...

Wed 6 May 2020 3:27 PM by Astaa

I can live without the participation tick. I think the reason they have done it, along with the reduction in RPs is to make the zone less attractive to the RP hungry. Which appears to be working. I don't think their intention was ever for it to become an RP farm, which it was for the first couple of days.

In a few more days then hopefully they will reduce it back down to being ported to one zone and it will be 'proper' soloers (no negative connotations to non soloers implied) only, though personally I plan on mixing it between the pvp zone and the frontiers, it's already becoming a little stale at times.

Wed 6 May 2020 4:26 PM by fail

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 1:55 PM
did several runs with my lower RRs last night, spend maybe 2h there and lost every fight because only necros/bd/champs there if you find anyone at all, guess what = 0 RP

Welcome in the world of non-IP class.

evert wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 2:29 PM
So basically you guys want a bunch of low RR guys to come and lose to you. Fair fights all around!

And they want 15K rps per kill of course.

Man, we have a fucking rr11 champion and a random hero who complains about the "fair fights" on the planned changes thread...

Like i said in this thread : https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13598&sid=c88fc3e69af1777735710a1826ab7077

No matter the way, people want rps, you just have to see the success of task, you literally gain rps from suiciding on guards.

So if they have to reroll a bd/champ to make a """"""""duel"""""""" in the solo zone, they will. People figured out what class are OP now, this is why no one run without at the very least purge up, every decent stealther will take viper as soon as they can, or every class that can take IP, will take IP, and dont doubt, it will be up every fight.

And, when the pvp area be will filled with champ, bd, etc etc... it will die.

People do not want fair duel or even any challenge, they want an easy win and gain rps quickly.

No wonder why uthred has some sand in his vagina when you work on something, and for your only reward, you have one side, people think this area is shit and will kill the server, and the "solopvpboysmyass" cry because they dont get enough rps.

I hate to defend the task system, but a thing called "Participate in Rvr" should work also for a pvp area? You have 4 hours.

Wed 6 May 2020 4:33 PM by inoeth

fail wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:26 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 1:55 PM
did several runs with my lower RRs last night, spend maybe 2h there and lost every fight because only necros/bd/champs there if you find anyone at all, guess what = 0 RP

Welcome in the world of non-IP class.

evert wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 2:29 PM
So basically you guys want a bunch of low RR guys to come and lose to you. Fair fights all around!

And they want 15K rps per kill of course.

Man, we have a fucking rr11 champion and a random hero who complains about the "fair fights" on the planned changes thread...

Like i said in this thread : https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13598&sid=c88fc3e69af1777735710a1826ab7077

No matter the way, people want rps, you just have to see the success of task, you literally gain rps from suiciding on guards.

So if they have to reroll a bd/champ to make a """"""""duel"""""""" in the solo zone, they will. People figured out what class are OP now, this is why no one run without at the very least purge up, every decent stealther will take viper as soon as they can, or every class that can take IP, will take IP, and dont doubt, it will be up every fight.

And, when the pvp area be will filled with champ, bd, etc etc... it will die.

People do not want fair duel or even any challenge, they want an easy win and gain rps quickly.

No wonder why uthred has some sand in his vagina when you work on something, and for your only reward, you have one side, people think this area is shit and will kill the server, and the "solopvpboysmyass" cry because they dont get enough rps.

I hate to defend the task system, but a thing called "Participate in Rvr" should work also for a pvp area? You have 4 hours.

whats the matter with non ip classes? they usually do tons of dmg...

i think you did not understand anything here
but
what can one expect from a guys that names himself "fail"

Wed 6 May 2020 4:41 PM by Astaa

Some random high RR, viper 5 SB was whining about my RR5, IP2 hero the other day... some people whine about anything. They can't take losing.

Wed 6 May 2020 4:42 PM by Riac

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:33 PM
fail wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:26 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 1:55 PM
did several runs with my lower RRs last night, spend maybe 2h there and lost every fight because only necros/bd/champs there if you find anyone at all, guess what = 0 RP

Welcome in the world of non-IP class.

evert wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 2:29 PM
So basically you guys want a bunch of low RR guys to come and lose to you. Fair fights all around!

And they want 15K rps per kill of course.

Man, we have a fucking rr11 champion and a random hero who complains about the "fair fights" on the planned changes thread...

Like i said in this thread : https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13598&sid=c88fc3e69af1777735710a1826ab7077

No matter the way, people want rps, you just have to see the success of task, you literally gain rps from suiciding on guards.

So if they have to reroll a bd/champ to make a """"""""duel"""""""" in the solo zone, they will. People figured out what class are OP now, this is why no one run without at the very least purge up, every decent stealther will take viper as soon as they can, or every class that can take IP, will take IP, and dont doubt, it will be up every fight.

And, when the pvp area be will filled with champ, bd, etc etc... it will die.

People do not want fair duel or even any challenge, they want an easy win and gain rps quickly.

No wonder why uthred has some sand in his vagina when you work on something, and for your only reward, you have one side, people think this area is shit and will kill the server, and the "solopvpboysmyass" cry because they dont get enough rps.

I hate to defend the task system, but a thing called "Participate in Rvr" should work also for a pvp area? You have 4 hours.

whats the matter with non ip classes? they usually do tons of dmg...

i think you did not understand anything here
but
what can one expect from a guys that names himself "fail"

ip classes also do tons of dmg. ip 3 is pretty w/e, its gets dumb when you start running into ip 4 and 5. its just a ridiculous amount of hp on someone that has no healing ability, and then a lot of the ip classes have slam as well as better dmg tables. and then theres heros lol.
idk fix for this or if there is one but it is a valid gripe i suppose. better pack some more poison weapons i suppose lol.

Wed 6 May 2020 4:46 PM by Astaa

Not every hero has slam

Wed 6 May 2020 4:47 PM by Riac

Astaa wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:46 PM
Not every hero has slam

yeaaaa, but they mostly do. lets not pretend that heros not having slam is the norm.

Wed 6 May 2020 4:52 PM by Helwyr

The problem with these new zones is they have absolutely nothing to do with Realm vs Realm, so I don't see why you would get Realm Points let alone rewards for Realm vs Realm task participation, as you aren't participating in RvR.

Wed 6 May 2020 4:57 PM by fail

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:33 PM
whats the matter with non ip classes? they usually do tons of dmg...

i think you did not understand anything here
but
what can one expect from a guys that names himself "fail"

Are you not a melee hunter? Was simply saying that is harder to kill something without IP eh.

Wed 6 May 2020 4:59 PM by Astaa

Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:47 PM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:46 PM
Not every hero has slam
yeaaaa, but they mostly do. lets not pretend that heros not having slam is the norm.

Granted, some do it wrong, if you're CS then 50 parry is the way to go, 5 sec stun from parry reactive does the job. If you're LW then rear style stun does the job.

Obviously 50 CS, 50 parry isn't too great vs casters but fighting casters is mostly a write off anyway as a hero. Nothing you can do about kitting.

Wed 6 May 2020 5:01 PM by joshisanonymous

Yeah, you should not get RvR participation credit when you are not participating in RvR. Even when you get credit from turning in snow you have to actually enter the frontier.

Wed 6 May 2020 5:24 PM by gotwqqd

Helwyr wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:52 PM
The problem with these new zones is they have absolutely nothing to do with Realm vs Realm, so I don't see why you would get Realm Points let alone rewards for Realm vs Realm task participation, as you aren't participating in RvR.

Nail meet hammer

Wed 6 May 2020 5:37 PM by inoeth

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:24 PM
Helwyr wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:52 PM
The problem with these new zones is they have absolutely nothing to do with Realm vs Realm, so I don't see why you would get Realm Points let alone rewards for Realm vs Realm task participation, as you aren't participating in RvR.

Nail meet hammer

but the effort to kill someone is still the same. yet GMs feel like its easier there somehow and rp needs to be cutted.

Wed 6 May 2020 8:06 PM by Sepplord

The fight is just as hard, but the effort isn't as high

Where can you reliably get a 1vs1 fight with average preparation/traveltime of both participants is 1-2minutes?

Wed 6 May 2020 8:10 PM by Riac

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:06 PM
The fight is just as hard, but the effort isn't as high

Where can you reliably get a 1vs1 fight with average preparation/traveltime of both participants is 1-2minutes?

used to be NF when the solo community was much larger. there were ppl everywhere to fight. most are gone now :/

Wed 6 May 2020 8:15 PM by Sepplord

Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:10 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:06 PM
The fight is just as hard, but the effort isn't as high

Where can you reliably get a 1vs1 fight with average preparation/traveltime of both participants is 1-2minutes?

used to be NF when the solo community was much larger. there were ppl everywhere to fight. most are gone now :/

Why did they leave when they were finding awesome 1vs1 everywhere within 1-2minutes?

Wed 6 May 2020 8:17 PM by Riac

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:15 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:10 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:06 PM
The fight is just as hard, but the effort isn't as high

Where can you reliably get a 1vs1 fight with average preparation/traveltime of both participants is 1-2minutes?

used to be NF when the solo community was much larger. there were ppl everywhere to fight. most are gone now :/

Why did they leave when they were finding awesome 1vs1 everywhere within 1-2minutes?

zergs, adds, same dumb shit that happens today. just there were more ppl who werent cunts then also.
also the draw of wow classic.
honestly though, you knew the answer to this. not sure why you asked it lol.

Wed 6 May 2020 8:33 PM by Sepplord

Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:17 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:15 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:10 PM
used to be NF when the solo community was much larger. there were ppl everywhere to fight. most are gone now :/

Why did they leave when they were finding awesome 1vs1 everywhere within 1-2minutes?
zergs, adds, same dumb shit that happens today. just there were more ppl who werent cunts then also.
also the draw of wow classic.
honestly though, you knew the answer to this. not sure why you asked it lol.

I wanted to hear it one more time before i tell you that you are contradicting yourself.

No way, solos were finding 1vs1 every 1-2minutes in NF AND got zerged so much at the same time. That doesn't fit. My money is on the claim that there were so many 1vs1 in NF beginning being bullshit

Wed 6 May 2020 8:38 PM by Riac

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:33 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:17 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:15 PM
Why did they leave when they were finding awesome 1vs1 everywhere within 1-2minutes?
zergs, adds, same dumb shit that happens today. just there were more ppl who werent cunts then also.
also the draw of wow classic.
honestly though, you knew the answer to this. not sure why you asked it lol.

I wanted to hear it one more time before i tell you that you are contradicting yourself.

No way, solos were finding 1vs1 every 1-2minutes in NF AND got zerged so much at the same time. That doesn't fit. My money is on the claim that there were so many 1vs1 in NF beginning being bullshit

1-2 mintures is a bit of an exageration, however its no bigger than the one you used. if you get ported to land of atum its a smooth 5 minutre run to the other zone. the other night i ported to the very west corner of land of atum and didnt have speed (i forgot). i just logged out to scrap that run. it takes WAY too long to pass through that wasteland.
believe it or not idc, but i can assure you there was lol. larger solo community = more opportunities for 1v1 = more 1v1s. yea, there was all the adding and shit still but still more opportunity.

Wed 6 May 2020 8:43 PM by Sepplord

Okay, lets put specific numbers aside. My personal (short) experience during EU afternoon times yesterday and today didn't have me looking for the first enemy for longer than 30seconds. I doubled it and added a minute for buffing, but maybe i just got lucky.

But if there was so much opportunity for 1vs1, like now in the pvp zone....why did the solo community leave? Who cares about getting zerged, when you can get another 1vs1 in a few minutes before getting zerged again. The truth is, while it was more, it never was great and that made more and more leave

Wed 6 May 2020 8:50 PM by Riac

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:43 PM
Okay, lets put specific numbers aside. My personal (short) experience during EU afternoon times yesterday and today didn't have me looking for the first enemy for longer than 30seconds. I doubled it and added a minute for buffing, but maybe i just got lucky.

But if there was so much opportunity for 1vs1, like now in the pvp zone....why did the solo community leave? Who cares about getting zerged, when you can get another 1vs1 in a few minutes before getting zerged again. The truth is, while it was more, it never was great and that made more and more leave

not sure what you are considering EU afternooon time, but i was playing last night around 6 us central time for a couple runs and then past 10pm central time and i ran around several times going longer than 5 mins (i know because i was watching my combi buffs) w/o a fight (obv not at the duel portal). was hanging out on the outskirts of that are hoping ppl would spawn around me and run there.
there pretty much is no solo community in there. there was a bunch of zergers in there pretending like they solo, and those ppl left because the rps were nerfed.
apparently those ppl cared alot about getting zerged even though the action was pretty good. especially when something like wow classic was getting kicked off. ppl love new servers.
back when you could walk to a bridge and it was almost guaranteed youd find another sin there to fight. now you can walk around a bridge for 3 rounds of buffs and not find shit. (obv you have to go to the bridge the stealth zerg isnt on)

Wed 6 May 2020 9:14 PM by Astaa

I'm not sure what this portal duelling is but I guess as a stealthier they could wander for hours without finding anyone without it :p I did get jumped instantly by a SB near a portal earlier as I was roaming, was curious why there were a few people there, killed him and got no adds then carried on roaming...so dunno.

Seeing lots of people (or maybe a vocal minority) whinging about it being a /bowing duelling zone but not really seen any of that, though I haven't been on a huge amount due to 'working from home'
A couple of people have bowed I guess and generally I return the bow but otherwise dived in, nice to chat after a good fight

Wed 6 May 2020 11:17 PM by Jingo NZ

The primary issue underlying the original post is about incentives for low RR or weaker solo classes to participate in the solo zone. Yes the task reward would help with this. I personally think that the RP/hour reward should be clearly less than regular RVR.

But what other creative incentives might there be?

[list=]Low RR/weak classes adding fights, or killing the victor being the accepted practise [/list]
[list=]Getting some RP credit even when you lose, 50-100 RP[/list]

People need to be less precious about dieing in RvR. A good RvR ecosystem has everyone on average lose 50% of their engagements.

Thu 7 May 2020 1:18 AM by Jingo NZ

Here's another creative incentive:

When you die you get a stackable passive buff to dmg and hp. All stacks are removed whenever you participate in a kill.

Thu 7 May 2020 3:24 AM by Azrael

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 11:11 AM
On an ironic sidenote, before the zone was open everybody was excited for equal fights, to build new setups and was happy about the fact, that you cant get steamrolled by large numbers in there. And now? Everythings bad because of 25% less rps. After reading all the feedback, you may could get the impression that your community is in the end just like the "shitty zergers", you are only playing for rps and not for the fights like you are pretending to do? /ponder

Hrhr, exactly this.
Was also really funny to see when almost all (few exceptions) 8mans refused to go on EV because it lags too much. When you changed the task zone to EV , magically everyone could play there at once.

Was really ridiculous.

Thu 7 May 2020 6:28 AM by Sepplord

Azrael wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 3:24 AM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 11:11 AM
On an ironic sidenote, before the zone was open everybody was excited for equal fights, to build new setups and was happy about the fact, that you cant get steamrolled by large numbers in there. And now? Everythings bad because of 25% less rps. After reading all the feedback, you may could get the impression that your community is in the end just like the "shitty zergers", you are only playing for rps and not for the fights like you are pretending to do? /ponder

Hrhr, exactly this.
Was also really funny to see when almost all (few exceptions) 8mans refused to go on EV because it lags too much. When you changed the task zone to EV , magically everyone could play there at once. Was really ridiculous.

which is exactly why i wish for a 8vs8 zone similar to the Solozone. Let's not pretend that the fairfight 8mans are participating in any meaningful way in the realmwar. Taking the serious ones out into a different zone gives them easy access to plenty of good fights, while less people are being ran over by them in the frontier.

imo that would be a far bigger win/win situation than the smallman zone, that has a constantly chaniging groupcap and takes out the "middle" of groupsizes roaming the zones

Thu 7 May 2020 8:27 AM by protege

RPs definitely should have been nerfed (75% Rp per kill is more than fair) for this zone. The task, imo, shouldn't have. I mean, with 40 kills of non-stop action i was at 8k an hour.... kind of... eh. Green ganking in DF yields more lol.

Land of Atum porting is a horrible idea as well -- it is promoting dueling since people are communicating for fights rather than roaming stygia like before.

Thu 7 May 2020 2:02 PM by sav

Nerfed RPs for this Zone = good decision. This Zone should never give equal RPs compared to the RVR area. For what? To fight almost without the risk to get Zerged? To find fights within few Minutes? To be able to switch realms whenever you want?

Personally: I would nerv the RPs even further, to like 50% or 25%. But share the RPs by dealed damage. So that even if you loose a Fight, you get atleast some RPs. You killed your enemy? Get the full 50%. You didnt killed the enemy but dealed 90% damage compared to his TPs + healprocs + pots he used etc? Get 90% of those 50% RPs. Or of 40% to give the winner a bit more reward compared to the one who loose. So its also fun for low RR to go to this zone and try some fights against RR6+ people. And even against Mincer, with their Red pet. Atleast you are able to do some RPs and not 0, just because you couldnt win the fight.

But lets be honest: at the end it sounds like its all about the RPs for everyone. Does the Mincer with its red pet, the Bonedancer etc. in the Solo Zone really cares about fair fights? Does the RR10 Champ cares about a fair fight against the RR2 Thane? If its really about the fair fights, no one would care about the RPs at all and go there even if the reward is like 0 RPs. Just for the fun. Just for the fair fight. Not for the whole day, but for an hour. Or for 30 minutes. From time to time. When nothing is going on in RvR. To try out another spec etc.

Thu 7 May 2020 2:30 PM by Sepplord

sav wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 2:02 PM
Nerfed RPs for this Zone = good decision. This Zone should never give equal RPs compared to the RVR area. For what? To fight almost without the risk to get Zerged? To find fights within few Minutes? To be able to switch realms whenever you want?

Personally: I would nerv the RPs even further, to like 50% or 25%. But share the RPs by dealed damage. So that even if you loose a Fight, you get atleast some RPs. You killed your enemy? Get the full 50%. You didnt killed the enemy but dealed 90% damage compared to his TPs + healprocs + pots he used etc? Get 90% of those 50% RPs. Or of 40% to give the winner a bit more reward compared to the one who loose. So its also fun for low RR to go to this zone and try some fights against RR6+ people. And even against Mincer, with their Red pet. Atleast you are able to do some RPs and not 0, just because you couldnt win the fight.

But lets be honest: at the end it sounds like its all about the RPs for everyone. Does the Mincer with its red pet, the Bonedancer etc. in the Solo Zone really cares about fair fights? Does the RR10 Champ cares about a fair fight against the RR2 Thane? If its really about the fair fights, no one would care about the RPs at all and go there even if the reward is like 0 RPs. Just for the fun. Just for the fair fight. Not for the whole day, but for an hour. Or for 30 minutes. From time to time. When nothing is going on in RvR. To try out another spec etc.

Completely agree with the general spirit of your comment, i am a general fan of giving out "participation-RPs" for fights that actually have players fighting each other (like when you fight at a tower and die, you still get a reward-tick a bit later...if you just died to guards or an enemy zerg it's 1RP or even nothing, but if you almost killed someone, or maybe even two you get a couple hundred RP's despite not killing anyone).

Just one thing to keep in mind about the example-numbers you gave. Currently RP's are 75%. If you change that to winner 50% / loser 1-40%...then overall the total RP-payout of a fight will be higher than it is now for all fights where the loser got 25% or more RPs.

Thu 7 May 2020 3:05 PM by canzian

pvp zone already dead... rp nerf no task = only 10 char inside lol

Fri 8 May 2020 10:26 AM by Catkain

To clarify two things:

1. I am calling it RvR Task participation, but what I really mean is "participation incentive of some sort". Yes, it has nothing to do with RvR, I agree that task should be seperate from this. I also agree that the rps gain should be lower than "normal" RvR, but not this much lower. My main point is to offer some reward to those who participate and not only to those who win.

2. I am not asking for more rps for me. Make the task only apply to those under rr5 or whatevs. I want to see more people and more variety in a zone that could be great fun, but is currently serving 0,7% of the population. Yes thats current number of ppl in there.

Would having more people in there mean more kills for the high RR folks? Well only if a 1v1 duel with bowing was to occur. I hate that type of duel and prefer it if everyone adds or dont add based on their own free will. I welcome adds and would much rather fight 2xrr4 than 1xrr4 thats for sure <3 The one has great potential and I have a very hard time believing that it was indeed made and designed for 0,7% of the population. A GM stating that this was a success and working as intended would be shocking considering there are a number of other things you could have worked on if that was the case (Like the arena that you already had announced and now postponed). Mind you, I expect that number to drop even more.

I would love to bring out my lower rank alts and get to try the solo-game as a full on Aug-healer or as a warden etc, but the current ruleset does not allow that.

Fri 8 May 2020 2:22 PM by Enyore

Could also just delete this zone again....

Fri 8 May 2020 5:04 PM by Quik

So the general view of the PvP zone seems to have gone this way...

Pheonix: We are giving you a solo pvp zone with everyone against everyone.
Solo community: OMG YES!!!! Thank you!!!

then...

Pheonix: We reducing RP's 25% and removing task credit so what was 11k RP's before will now be approx. 7500 RP'sish.
Solo community: OMG WTH you took all our fun away!!!!! Also we don't like BD's/Necro's/Champs plz remove or cap RA lvl it isn't fair otherwise.

to now...

Pheonix: We are not changing anything, the pvp zone is right where we like it
Solo community: You don't understand us...plz just delete the zone

I was against duelers completely in this zone but I am at a point now with all the solo whiners that I hope they just make this into a dueling zone completely.

I know Riac has openly said he doesn't care so much about RP's, but I have read multiple times that a lot of soloers aren't in it for the RP's, but we can see that is a load of crap. Soloers want their rp's as much as the zergers, but at least the zergers aren't hiding behind some mask saying they are doing something noble, they just zerg.

Here people scream they just want a fair 1v1 chance with no zerg, now they get it, then they scream its not fair because of Champs/BD/Necro's.

Just be honest and admit most soloers apparently just want to be able to take their high RR toons and steamroll the casual lower RR toons without having to worry about the KNOWN amazing soloing classes like BD's/Necro/Champs, oh, and they want easy huge RP's also.

Fri 8 May 2020 5:40 PM by Astaa

I got bored of it because of Bonedancers, nothing more, nothing less.

Edit, I will take any normal class on 1v1 and usually win (hero) but BDs are a right pain. Edit of an edit. Not because BD players have any talent whatsoever but because the class is completely broken.

Fri 8 May 2020 11:41 PM by pollojack

Had to edit this. The last man standing is an add fiesta of casters. Else it is spot on.

Mon 11 May 2020 2:07 PM by Razur Ur

Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 8 May 2020 5:40 PM
I got bored of it because of Bonedancers, nothing more, nothing less.

Edit, I will take any normal class on 1v1 and usually win (hero) but BDs are a right pain. Edit of an edit. Not because BD players have any talent whatsoever but because the class is completely broken.

when all melees short time teaming vs necro/bd/minstrels is all fine ;-).

Mon 11 May 2020 9:04 PM by Freudinio

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 11:11 AM
That will not happen.

Kind of confusing to read all the comments of killing the zone just because of 25% less rps and no more task rps, which is something like 500 extra rps every 30 mins when rr 6+.

So, why did we kill the zone? Because you have way more and way "easier" action than in normal RvR. You port in and it only takes very few mins if not even less, to have a fight which is mostly vs the same group size. Even if there are adds, they are way easier to handle than in RvR as the numbers arent that high like in the frontiers.

If you die, you just need to click the healer, the recharger, the hastener and your buff potions and 30 secs later you are back in the fight zone. This was leading to way higher rps/h than in RvR and thats why we reduced the rps for kills from 100% to 75%. You have the advantage and safety of (more or less) equal numbers, plus the advantage of having fights way faster than in RvR and therefor you got the "disadvantage" of getting 25% less rps and no task credit in there (which you still can easily get via porting in and out once every 30 mins). Not to mention the huge advantage of switching realms instantly, if you want to build groups and some classes are missing.

On an ironic sidenote, before the zone was open everybody was excited for equal fights, to build new setups and was happy about the fact, that you cant get steamrolled by large numbers in there. And now? Everythings bad because of 25% less rps. After reading all the feedback, you may could get the impression that your community is in the end just like the "shitty zergers", you are only playing for rps and not for the fights like you are pretending to do? /ponder

I understand this completely.

You should disable rp's from kills in the task zone as well to diversify RvR. Having 3-4 full groups of people camping boat dropoffs at rr7+ is kinda retarded. Rank has never meant so little, as it does on this server tbh.

Fri 12 Jun 2020 1:52 PM by kratoxin

no

Fri 12 Jun 2020 4:45 PM by leb

participation task is active but the pvp zone is still empty (5-10 players)

Sat 13 Jun 2020 7:08 PM by Catkain

This post was made when PVP Zone was Stygia, not when PVP Zone was the last-man-standing version that it is now.

But I still think Stygia + RvR-task participation + Reduced rp/kill is the best way to go.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:56 AM by Basilisk

You guys beating a dead horse. Just give up and wait for New World come August.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 5:55 PM by Sepplord

Basilisk wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:56 AM
You guys beating a dead horse. Just give up and wait for New World come August.

You mean that game that scrapped it's focus on pvp and made a 180turn towards PvE (because there is no endgame without PvE🙄

a few months before initial planned release?

What could go wrong 🤣

Thu 9 Jul 2020 7:28 AM by jhaerik

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 11:11 AM
That will not happen.

Kind of confusing to read all the comments of killing the zone just because of 25% less rps and no more task rps, which is something like 500 extra rps every 30 mins when rr 6+.

So, why did we kill the zone? Because you have way more and way "easier" action than in normal RvR. You port in and it only takes very few mins if not even less, to have a fight which is mostly vs the same group size. Even if there are adds, they are way easier to handle than in RvR as the numbers arent that high like in the frontiers.

If you die, you just need to click the healer, the recharger, the hastener and your buff potions and 30 secs later you are back in the fight zone. This was leading to way higher rps/h than in RvR and thats why we reduced the rps for kills from 100% to 75%. You have the advantage and safety of (more or less) equal numbers, plus the advantage of having fights way faster than in RvR and therefor you got the "disadvantage" of getting 25% less rps and no task credit in there (which you still can easily get via porting in and out once every 30 mins). Not to mention the huge advantage of switching realms instantly, if you want to build groups and some classes are missing.

On an ironic sidenote, before the zone was open everybody was excited for equal fights, to build new setups and was happy about the fact, that you cant get steamrolled by large numbers in there. And now? Everythings bad because of 25% less rps. After reading all the feedback, you may could get the impression that your community is in the end just like the "shitty zergers", you are only playing for rps and not for the fights like you are pretending to do? /ponder

As someone who doesn't want to play DAoC the ToA BG experience... I just wish you'd remove these zones entirely. It's dead as balls for solo-small man out in NF. I can spend an hour running laps around alb on my BM and if I don't run into the zerg I won't see a soul.