Scout/hunter/ranger - Phoenix Freeshard

First I want to point out how broken archery is:
- penentrating arrow doesn't work as designed
- crit shot doesn't break or penentrate caster bubble
- critical shot from stealth can be blocked/evaded
- classes that can't spec in shield seem to have decent block rate against archery (had a shaman block my crit and my followup)
- dps is non-existent

Next I'd like to address how out of balance these three classes are. Rangers with dw negate scout shield and hit for about 30-40% harder than scout with melee while having about the same bow damage. Hunters are doing about double the damage with spear (seems to do about the same damage as hero spear on this server) while also having a pet that can hit for anywhere between 75-100 damage a swing.. hunter also has about the same archery dps as a scout.

This is absolutely insane. A few things could happen that would balance the classes without making any of them overpowered (a term used far too loosely on this server).
1) increase scout melee dps to be competitive with hunter/ranger
2) nerf hunter/ranger melee dps to make all three balanced
3) increase scout archery dps enough to offset hunter/ranger melee dps.

In the current state of Phoenix, the scout is essentially a stealth support class. While he has the tools to kite, it doesn't do enough damage to be effective solo (and we see how much everyone bitches about stealth groups). If the DEVS and visible players would like to see less stealth groups, stop making stealth classes dependent on other stealth classes for survival; especially at low realm rank.

Mon 20 Apr 2020 7:31 AM by Riac

nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 7:22 AM
First I want to point out how broken archery is:
- penentrating arrow doesn't work as designed
- crit shot doesn't break or penentrate caster bubble
- critical shot from stealth can be blocked/evaded
- classes that can't spec in shield seem to have decent block rate against archery (had a shaman block my crit and my followup)
- dps is non-existent

Next I'd like to address how out of balance these three classes are. Rangers with dw negate scout shield and hit for about 30-40% harder than scout with melee while having about the same bow damage. Hunters are doing about double the damage with spear (seems to do about the same damage as hero spear on this server) while also having a pet that can hit for anywhere between 75-100 damage a swing.. hunter also has about the same archery dps as a scout.

This is absolutely insane. A few things could happen that would balance the classes without making any of them overpowered (a term used far too loosely on this server).
1) increase scout melee dps to be competitive with hunter/ranger
2) nerf hunter/ranger melee dps to make all three balanced
3) increase scout archery dps enough to offset hunter/ranger melee dps.

In the current state of Phoenix, the scout is essentially a stealth support class. While he has the tools to kite, it doesn't do enough damage to be effective solo (and we see how much everyone bitches about stealth groups). If the DEVS and visible players would like to see less stealth groups, stop making stealth classes dependent on other stealth classes for survival; especially at low realm rank.

stop playing crap classes that only leech.

Mon 20 Apr 2020 8:25 AM by Centenario

Riac wrote: stop playing crap classes that only leech.

At least you recognize what has been said:
- The archer classes are crap
- Their only possible play-style is leeching

But you suggest to leave them as is and stop playing them, whereas here we are trying to find solutions to make them great again.

It is on the Q2 2020 planned changes to fix archer classes.
We need feedback, testable is a plus.

Possible tests:
- Hitting targets with known AF and Absorb and Resists, with regular shot, crit shot, volley, melee, with 50 weapon or 30 weapon, with 35 bow and 50 bow, with 4.4 speed, 5, 5.2, 5.4, 5.5 speed bows

- Compare fresh DPS vs high RR DPS on 100 seconds - compare results against a mage, other archers, a tank, a melee dps.

Mon 20 Apr 2020 8:27 AM by Riac

Centenario wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 8:25 AM
Riac wrote: stop playing crap classes that only leech.

At least you recognize what has been said:
- The archer classes are crap
- Their only possible play-style is leeching

But you suggest to leave them as is and stop playing them, whereas here we are trying to find solutions to make them great again.

It is on the Q2 2020 planned changes to fix archer classes.
We need feedback, testable is a plus.

Possible tests:
- Hitting targets with known AF and Absorb and Resists, with regular shot, crit shot, volley, melee, with 50 weapon or 30 weapon, with 35 bow and 50 bow, with 4.4 speed, 5, 5.2, 5.4, 5.5 speed bows

- Compare fresh DPS vs high RR DPS on 100 seconds - compare results against a mage, other archers, a tank, a melee dps.

in my opinion they were never great and always just a pain in the ass.
also your operating under the assumption that if they were to get a dmg buff they would then solo? im doubting this very much, if they had any interest in soloing they wouldnt be playing a scout imo, theyd make a ranger or hunter and have some sort of dual range/melee spec. (obv there are a few exceptions, but lets be real here)

Mon 20 Apr 2020 1:27 PM by gotwqqd

Firstly you don’t nerf melee of ranger/hunter

You operate under assumption 27-35 bow is their usual archery spec
That is baseline for all archery damage
Now make it so higher bow spec is significant upgrade
Maybe long shot , volley and advanced penetrating arrow in the line

Now if rangers or hunters go higher bow they lose significantly with their melee output
Adjust points per level if need

Five scouts greater range and slowest bows.

Also you must add something for scouts that make them better in archery if all are 50

Mon 20 Apr 2020 4:28 PM by Noashakra

Nerf stealth and dommages for Asn because they are zergers adder and they are zerging me when I play my ranger. I don't like them I felt they were never great and they are destroying my playstyle.

Mon 20 Apr 2020 4:46 PM by Noashakra

So shit in the work for archer who zerg too right? So let us have our bow fix thanks.

Mon 20 Apr 2020 4:55 PM by Riac

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 4:46 PM
So shit in the work for archer who zerg too right? So let us have our bow fix thanks.

we'll have to see whats in store i suppose. i, for one, am really hoping its just some lame ass extra util or w/e lol. something equally as impressive as the bleed ideas they put in discord.

Mon 20 Apr 2020 6:09 PM by inoeth

yet another bow cry thread... bow love inc soon now, pretty sure

Mon 20 Apr 2020 7:06 PM by daytonchambers

My main char is a Ranger. I am specced 35 in archery for the first rapidfire. Bow damage is fine.

On average I hit as hard as a 2h melee class and I crit harder than a perf on equivalent targets. I am the only class type with access to all three physical damage types which lets me optimize shots vs resists against any target in the game.

If you are not adjusting arrow type vs target and/or opening with a critical shot knowing full well that bladeturns are at play then it's 100% your fault for being a bad player.

Mon 20 Apr 2020 8:02 PM by Expfighter

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 7:06 PM
My main char is a Ranger. I am specced 35 in archery for the first rapidfire. Bow damage is fine.

On average I hit as hard as a 2h melee class and I crit harder than a perf on equivalent targets. I am the only class type with access to all three physical damage types which lets me optimize shots vs resists against any target in the game.

If you are not adjusting arrow type vs target and/or opening with a critical shot knowing full well that bladeturns are at play then it's 100% your fault for being a bad player.

the thing that pisses me off more than anything with all 3 archer classes is the "You can't perform a critical shot and switch to a standard shot" BS! seems EVERY situation except a target sitting down creates this error and 1/2ing of damage!

on a grey target I can do 1030 damage crit shot with 40 bow and falcons eye 7, but on a yellow target the best I can crit for is 300-500? this data has been tested by me MANY times! Crit shots in siege battles are just not worth the exposure to stun nuke and aoe dot BS, that's why most archers just volley in siege fights

Mon 20 Apr 2020 8:27 PM by daytonchambers

Expfighter wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 8:02 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 7:06 PM
My main char is a Ranger. I am specced 35 in archery for the first rapidfire. Bow damage is fine.

On average I hit as hard as a 2h melee class and I crit harder than a perf on equivalent targets. I am the only class type with access to all three physical damage types which lets me optimize shots vs resists against any target in the game.

If you are not adjusting arrow type vs target and/or opening with a critical shot knowing full well that bladeturns are at play then it's 100% your fault for being a bad player.

the thing that pisses me off more than anything with all 3 archer classes is the "You can't perform a critical shot and switch to a standard shot" BS! seems EVERY situation except a target sitting down creates this error and 1/2ing of damage!

on a grey target I can do 1030 damage crit shot with 40 bow and falcons eye 7, but on a yellow target the best I can crit for is 300-500? this data has been tested by me MANY times! Crit shots in siege battles are just not worth the exposure to stun nuke and aoe dot BS, that's why most archers just volley in siege fights

The 15 second immunity against crit shots can indeed make them super unreliable, especially in large scale fights with multiple archers. Doesn't matter that it was a diff archer bouncing their crit off a targets BT the immunity clock still goes off making your well timed shot pointless.

Personally I don't even bother on large fights. I look for the glowy hands and rapidfire every caster and healer I can get a shot on to interrupt them.

Mon 20 Apr 2020 9:37 PM by Expfighter

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 8:27 PM
Expfighter wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 8:02 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 7:06 PM
My main char is a Ranger. I am specced 35 in archery for the first rapidfire. Bow damage is fine.

On average I hit as hard as a 2h melee class and I crit harder than a perf on equivalent targets. I am the only class type with access to all three physical damage types which lets me optimize shots vs resists against any target in the game.

If you are not adjusting arrow type vs target and/or opening with a critical shot knowing full well that bladeturns are at play then it's 100% your fault for being a bad player.

the thing that pisses me off more than anything with all 3 archer classes is the "You can't perform a critical shot and switch to a standard shot" BS! seems EVERY situation except a target sitting down creates this error and 1/2ing of damage!

on a grey target I can do 1030 damage crit shot with 40 bow and falcons eye 7, but on a yellow target the best I can crit for is 300-500? this data has been tested by me MANY times! Crit shots in siege battles are just not worth the exposure to stun nuke and aoe dot BS, that's why most archers just volley in siege fights

The 15 second immunity against crit shots can indeed make them super unreliable, especially in large scale fights with multiple archers. Doesn't matter that it was a diff archer bouncing their crit off a targets BT the immunity clock still goes off making your well timed shot pointless.

Personally I don't even bother on large fights. I look for the glowy hands and rapidfire every caster and healer I can get a shot on to interrupt them.

correct, but I was talking solely of soloing, the crit message happens way to much! if the person is in combat of ANY kind, message, if the person is healing Message, if the person is standing message!

Mon 20 Apr 2020 9:45 PM by daytonchambers

Expfighter wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 9:37 PM
correct, but I was talking solely of soloing, the crit message happens way to much! if the person is in combat of ANY kind, message, if the person is healing Message, if the person is standing message!

Gotcha. I was aware that crit shot will not work against a target in melee, nor will it work against a mezzed target. Add those to the aforementioned 15s immunity that prevents you from double crit firing as a bubble counter and yes our options for the shot are indeed limited. That said, I have crit shot healers mid-cast on numerous occasions so it sounds like either a bug or some other factor is at play there.

Mon 20 Apr 2020 10:16 PM by Ashenspire

Penetrating Arrow works exactly as designed.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:29 AM by Noashakra

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 10:16 PM
Penetrating Arrow works exactly as designed.

yes and it's useless

Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:37 AM by inoeth

Expfighter wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 8:02 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 7:06 PM
My main char is a Ranger. I am specced 35 in archery for the first rapidfire. Bow damage is fine.

On average I hit as hard as a 2h melee class and I crit harder than a perf on equivalent targets. I am the only class type with access to all three physical damage types which lets me optimize shots vs resists against any target in the game.

If you are not adjusting arrow type vs target and/or opening with a critical shot knowing full well that bladeturns are at play then it's 100% your fault for being a bad player.

the thing that pisses me off more than anything with all 3 archer classes is the "You can't perform a critical shot and switch to a standard shot" BS! seems EVERY situation except a target sitting down creates this error and 1/2ing of damage!

on a grey target I can do 1030 damage crit shot with 40 bow and falcons eye 7, but on a yellow target the best I can crit for is 300-500? this data has been tested by me MANY times! Crit shots in siege battles are just not worth the exposure to stun nuke and aoe dot BS, that's why most archers just volley in siege fights

wondering what falcons eye has to do with crit shot dmg??
still im getting off crit shots quite frequently, but yeah i know this msg too

also i often hit targets for over 500 with only 27 in bow and a 5.0 speed bow

what pisses me off is that the dmg is kind of low on "soft" targets like casters, hell i do more dmg on leather wearers than on casters .... that feels off and i remember it was different on live servers. i remember huge numbers vs cloth

Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:45 AM by Siouxsie

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:37 AM
what pisses me off is that the dmg is kind of low on "soft" targets like casters, hell i do more dmg on leather wearers than on casters .... that feels off and i remember it was different on live servers. i remember huge numbers vs cloth

That's because casters get Physical Defense.
Also, everyone is running around with Spec AF (combined forces buff).

This is all screwing up all the damage calculation in the game.

Remove Physical Defense from the server and remove Spec AF from the CF pots.

The solution is NOT lowering melee damage for hunters (though rangers should get it lowered because due to DW mechanics their output is soo much higher -- and this extends to assassins.. where duel wieldin is so overpowered and combined with the ridiculous amount of poisons/debuffs)

I'd like to see crit shot never be evaded/parried/blocked because.. how in the hell is a player supposed to block if if they don't see it coming?

Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:12 AM by Cadebrennus

nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 7:22 AM
First I want to point out how broken archery is:
- penentrating arrow doesn't work as designed
- crit shot doesn't break or penentrate caster bubble
- critical shot from stealth can be blocked/evaded
- classes that can't spec in shield seem to have decent block rate against archery (had a shaman block my crit and my followup)
- dps is non-existent

Next I'd like to address how out of balance these three classes are. Rangers with dw negate scout shield and hit for about 30-40% harder than scout with melee while having about the same bow damage. Hunters are doing about double the damage with spear (seems to do about the same damage as hero spear on this server) while also having a pet that can hit for anywhere between 75-100 damage a swing.. hunter also has about the same archery dps as a scout.

This is absolutely insane. A few things could happen that would balance the classes without making any of them overpowered (a term used far too loosely on this server).
1) increase scout melee dps to be competitive with hunter/ranger
2) nerf hunter/ranger melee dps to make all three balanced
3) increase scout archery dps enough to offset hunter/ranger melee dps.

In the current state of Phoenix, the scout is essentially a stealth support class. While he has the tools to kite, it doesn't do enough damage to be effective solo (and we see how much everyone bitches about stealth groups). If the DEVS and visible players would like to see less stealth groups, stop making stealth classes dependent on other stealth classes for survival; especially at low realm rank.

With a standard Hybrid spec of 35 stealth, 35 bow, 39 blades, 36 PF, and 26 cd, a Ranger will swing their offhand 61% of the time. Assuming a (generous) amount of offhand damage at 48 unstyled damage, along with 14 damage add per hit (approximately averaged 2 seconds per swing), you're looking at an average damage boost of +38 damage per swing over time (taking into account the 61% offhand swing rate.) Edit: forgot to mention that this is indeed actually 30% but that's as high as the average spec can be, and the offhand raw unstyled damage was being far too high and generous, to be honest.

Compare this to a Briton Scout (chosen for this purpose as it is the average across all realms - a Saracen will be even higher defense.) A Briton Scout will have a 52% damage mitigation with 42 shield, and 38% vs a dual wielder. That means that over time, going toe-to-toe, a Scout should outlast a Ranger assuming they both have 39 main weapon spec. However, herein lies the problem. Most Scouts do not spec much into a melee weapon, and are gimping themselves. Period.

If you want to out out melee damage then you must spec melee damage. I suggest at least 39 weapon.

I don't have the calculations for Hunters but they are higher than Rangers, due to Spear which is approximately equivalent to DW damage, + pet. However they are far more screwed when blocked/evaded/parried than dual wielders.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:18 AM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:12 AM
nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 7:22 AM
First I want to point out how broken archery is:
- penentrating arrow doesn't work as designed
- crit shot doesn't break or penentrate caster bubble
- critical shot from stealth can be blocked/evaded
- classes that can't spec in shield seem to have decent block rate against archery (had a shaman block my crit and my followup)
- dps is non-existent

Next I'd like to address how out of balance these three classes are. Rangers with dw negate scout shield and hit for about 30-40% harder than scout with melee while having about the same bow damage. Hunters are doing about double the damage with spear (seems to do about the same damage as hero spear on this server) while also having a pet that can hit for anywhere between 75-100 damage a swing.. hunter also has about the same archery dps as a scout.

This is absolutely insane. A few things could happen that would balance the classes without making any of them overpowered (a term used far too loosely on this server).
1) increase scout melee dps to be competitive with hunter/ranger
2) nerf hunter/ranger melee dps to make all three balanced
3) increase scout archery dps enough to offset hunter/ranger melee dps.

In the current state of Phoenix, the scout is essentially a stealth support class. While he has the tools to kite, it doesn't do enough damage to be effective solo (and we see how much everyone bitches about stealth groups). If the DEVS and visible players would like to see less stealth groups, stop making stealth classes dependent on other stealth classes for survival; especially at low realm rank.

With a standard Hybrid spec of 35 stealth, 35 bow, 39 blades, 36 PF, and 26 cd, a Ranger will swing their offhand 61% of the time. Assuming a (generous) amount of offhand damage at 48 unstyled damage, along with 14 damage add per hit (approximately averaged 2 seconds per swing), you're looking at an average damage boost of +38 damage per swing over time (taking into account the 61% offhand swing rate.)

Compare this to a Briton Scout (chosen for this purpose as it is the average across all realms - a Saracen will be even higher defense.) A Briton Scout will have a 52% damage mitigation with 42 shield, and 38% vs a dual wielder. That means that over time, going toe-to-toe, a Scout should outlast a Ranger assuming they both have 39 main weapon spec. However, herein lies the problem. Most Scouts do not spec much into a melee weapon, and are gimping themselves. Period.

If you want to out out melee damage then you must spec melee damage. I suggest at least 39 weapon.

I don't have the calculations for Hunters but they are higher than Rangers, due to Spear which is approximately equivalent to DW damage, + pet. However they are far more screwed when blocked/evaded/parried than dual wielders.

even with 50 weapon you suck in melee as a scout, i lvled one myself because i could not believe it, but its true

Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:18 AM by inoeth

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:45 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:37 AM
what pisses me off is that the dmg is kind of low on "soft" targets like casters, hell i do more dmg on leather wearers than on casters .... that feels off and i remember it was different on live servers. i remember huge numbers vs cloth

That's because casters get Physical Defense.
Also, everyone is running around with Spec AF (combined forces buff).

This is all screwing up all the damage calculation in the game.

Remove Physical Defense from the server and remove Spec AF from the CF pots.

The solution is NOT lowering melee damage for hunters (though rangers should get it lowered because due to DW mechanics their output is soo much higher -- and this extends to assassins.. where duel wieldin is so overpowered and combined with the ridiculous amount of poisons/debuffs)

I'd like to see crit shot never be evaded/parried/blocked because.. how in the hell is a player supposed to block if if they don't see it coming?

i doubt every caster has pd9
even low rr castes do not take huge amounts of dmg and i dont believe thats because of 50 af from combined forces

Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:48 AM by Noashakra

Ranger dommage is good if they sacrifice bow big time. I run with 14 in bow.
Why would you want to nerf that? If you up the bow line, we will have to make choices.

Regarding the scout, I had melee scouts killing me before, it's totally possible (the bleed styles are eating your life away).
Remove the spec AF from the pots, for solos, it's broken I agree with that.

Mages should not have access to PD too.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:52 AM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:18 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:12 AM
nkeplinger1 wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 7:22 AM
First I want to point out how broken archery is:
- penentrating arrow doesn't work as designed
- crit shot doesn't break or penentrate caster bubble
- critical shot from stealth can be blocked/evaded
- classes that can't spec in shield seem to have decent block rate against archery (had a shaman block my crit and my followup)
- dps is non-existent

Next I'd like to address how out of balance these three classes are. Rangers with dw negate scout shield and hit for about 30-40% harder than scout with melee while having about the same bow damage. Hunters are doing about double the damage with spear (seems to do about the same damage as hero spear on this server) while also having a pet that can hit for anywhere between 75-100 damage a swing.. hunter also has about the same archery dps as a scout.

This is absolutely insane. A few things could happen that would balance the classes without making any of them overpowered (a term used far too loosely on this server).
1) increase scout melee dps to be competitive with hunter/ranger
2) nerf hunter/ranger melee dps to make all three balanced
3) increase scout archery dps enough to offset hunter/ranger melee dps.

In the current state of Phoenix, the scout is essentially a stealth support class. While he has the tools to kite, it doesn't do enough damage to be effective solo (and we see how much everyone bitches about stealth groups). If the DEVS and visible players would like to see less stealth groups, stop making stealth classes dependent on other stealth classes for survival; especially at low realm rank.

With a standard Hybrid spec of 35 stealth, 35 bow, 39 blades, 36 PF, and 26 cd, a Ranger will swing their offhand 61% of the time. Assuming a (generous) amount of offhand damage at 48 unstyled damage, along with 14 damage add per hit (approximately averaged 2 seconds per swing), you're looking at an average damage boost of +38 damage per swing over time (taking into account the 61% offhand swing rate.)

Compare this to a Briton Scout (chosen for this purpose as it is the average across all realms - a Saracen will be even higher defense.) A Briton Scout will have a 52% damage mitigation with 42 shield, and 38% vs a dual wielder. That means that over time, going toe-to-toe, a Scout should outlast a Ranger assuming they both have 39 main weapon spec. However, herein lies the problem. Most Scouts do not spec much into a melee weapon, and are gimping themselves. Period.

If you want to out out melee damage then you must spec melee damage. I suggest at least 39 weapon.

I don't have the calculations for Hunters but they are higher than Rangers, due to Spear which is approximately equivalent to DW damage, + pet. However they are far more screwed when blocked/evaded/parried than dual wielders.

even with 50 weapon you suck in melee as a scout, i lvled one myself because i could not believe it, but its true

My (and everyone else's) calculations and actual testing > your anecdotal recollections

Tue 21 Apr 2020 10:17 AM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:52 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:18 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:12 AM
With a standard Hybrid spec of 35 stealth, 35 bow, 39 blades, 36 PF, and 26 cd, a Ranger will swing their offhand 61% of the time. Assuming a (generous) amount of offhand damage at 48 unstyled damage, along with 14 damage add per hit (approximately averaged 2 seconds per swing), you're looking at an average damage boost of +38 damage per swing over time (taking into account the 61% offhand swing rate.)

Compare this to a Briton Scout (chosen for this purpose as it is the average across all realms - a Saracen will be even higher defense.) A Briton Scout will have a 52% damage mitigation with 42 shield, and 38% vs a dual wielder. That means that over time, going toe-to-toe, a Scout should outlast a Ranger assuming they both have 39 main weapon spec. However, herein lies the problem. Most Scouts do not spec much into a melee weapon, and are gimping themselves. Period.

If you want to out out melee damage then you must spec melee damage. I suggest at least 39 weapon.

I don't have the calculations for Hunters but they are higher than Rangers, due to Spear which is approximately equivalent to DW damage, + pet. However they are far more screwed when blocked/evaded/parried than dual wielders.

even with 50 weapon you suck in melee as a scout, i lvled one myself because i could not believe it, but its true

My (and everyone else's) calculations and actual testing > your anecdotal recollections

yeah we alrdy know your "testings" and everyone else is also crying about scouts being super weak afaik

Tue 21 Apr 2020 10:43 AM by Siouxsie

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 10:17 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:52 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:18 AM
even with 50 weapon you suck in melee as a scout, i lvled one myself because i could not believe it, but its true

My (and everyone else's) calculations and actual testing > your anecdotal recollections

yeah we alrdy know your "testings" and everyone else is also crying about scouts being super weak afaik

Scouts are not weak. Have you ever fought Skairipa?
Super hard to kill. Blocks like half the time. Really annoying.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:03 AM by inoeth

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 10:43 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 10:17 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:52 AM
My (and everyone else's) calculations and actual testing > your anecdotal recollections

yeah we alrdy know your "testings" and everyone else is also crying about scouts being super weak afaik

Scouts are not weak. Have you ever fought Skairipa?
Super hard to kill. Blocks like half the time. Really annoying.

ofc i have but skai is rr11...
have you ever fought any other scout? they are laughable easy to kill

i think if you manage to get past rr6 it may become somewhat playable but till that its only adding or volleying

Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:05 AM by Sepplord

isn't that true for basically almost all chars now? since the average RR on this server has gotten so high, you can't really compete as a RR3 soloer

Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:14 AM by Cadebrennus

The simple fact is, if you don't spec much into melee you're not going to get much out of melee. Period.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:15 AM by chois

Well to be efficient scouts need to be rr 7 or 8 before it s a hell. I don t still play my scout, i m on mid temping a hunter, with the new meta and the fact than every sneak will be run with viper 5 think u have to run with aom 5 + empty 2 or 3 + most hp as u can, and of course forget your bow except if u want need wood to do a barbecue😁.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:20 AM by Cadebrennus

A Scout could run 41 weapon, 42 shield, 36 stealth, and 35 bow no problem, and do as much damage as a Ranger's 1h (DA notwithstanding). Then again, Scouts get access to a DA proc weapon that Rangers and Hunters do not.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 12:15 PM by chois

Da proc weapon is obsolet everyone have acces by reactive armor, and no a scout don t take a weapon with ad damage u have a shield and u can put on, is more efficient u blok more than u hit so...

Tue 21 Apr 2020 1:11 PM by Centenario

Scout Longbow's is supposed to have a heavy weapon bonus.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 1:26 PM by inoeth

Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 1:11 PM
Scout Longbow's is supposed to have up to 40% increased bow damage compared with Ranger/Hunter, because LongBow has 2-hand weapon bonus, which other bows don't have. Longbows are considered heavy weapons like Polearms, Spears, and Celtic Spears, and all 4 have the Heavy Weapon Bonus, which is +0.45% base damage per spec point in it.

40% lol did you ever play this game?

Tue 21 Apr 2020 1:31 PM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:20 AM
A Scout could run 41 weapon, 42 shield, 36 stealth, and 35 bow no problem, and do as much damage as a Ranger's 1h (DA notwithstanding). Then again, Scouts get access to a DA proc weapon that Rangers and Hunters do not.

scout does same dmg as ranger LOOOL maybe if the ranger is not buffed

looking forward to your test results xD

Tue 21 Apr 2020 1:51 PM by Centenario

Post from 2002: https://web.archive.org/web/20030609005649/http://vnboards.ign.com:80/message.asp?topic=43556331&replies=254

Personally I am waiting for some explanation of why my bow damage is at all time lows.

Last night I decided to clear out some of the old quests. One of which was the secret orders. I was told to kill these necromancers in black mtn. north. Upon arriving I notice they are grey to my 50, sweet no prob then. Expecting this to be a one shot crit. I fire... 567? Only half it's hit points! I fire again 280 regular.. It's still up and casting a spell on me. I fire one more time for 290. It dies.

What is going on? My cap for LB damage is 1044 as tested on a level 1 mob. My LB spec is 50 +13. I am using a 99% 5.4 speed bow. I am using arrows that this mob is neutral too (no (+/-) after dmg).

Why am I only hitting for 50-60% of my cap against a grey mob? This btw is the same average I am experiencing against the blue ogres outside of krondon dungeon, yet there has to be at least a 8-10 level difference between these mobs?

The only logical explanation is there is some sort of artificial cap or damage reduction occuring. This was never in any patch notes that I am aware of.

Mythic and the secret nerfs it's just not right. If indeed they decided to reduce bow damage and have zero returns after a certain LB spec then they should make this known so that I can have a respec to gain more melee or shield skill.
-----signature-----

- Hematic - 50 Paladin - Merlin
- Sli Faulker - 50 Scout (LGM Fletcher)
- Bundah - 4x Warrior - Tristan
- Hematic - 4x Shaman - Tristan
Angelic Fury

Also in 2003:

Date Posted: 9/29 8:29am Subject: RE: How can a Perf be under 300 damage ?
My scout crits for about 400-1000 damage depending on class type. My SB PA's for 150-678 depending on class type.

Scout:
50 Bow
35 Stealth
42 Shield
20 Slash

SB:
44 LA
44 Sword
34 Stealth
34 CS
17 Venom
-----signature-----

Xairam 50 Scout RR6 - Merlin
Thicker 50 Infiltrator R1 - Merlin
Burrp 50 Shadowblade RR6 - Lancelot
2 Buff bot accounts
/* H8 4 Mythic */

Tue 21 Apr 2020 2:05 PM by chois

well u can t compare scout melee damage and ranger melee damage, except if u give self buff ranger to the scout but not even , to have real comparaison u need to give to the scout the same self buff, the offhand and by the fact the swing speed give by dual... So in the reality of the game rangers will do always more damage u can t compare that. And more af by the self to too

Tue 21 Apr 2020 4:07 PM by Kwall0311

Whoever is doing all this scout melee on paper hasnt tried it. Even 50/50 weapon/shield MOBxxx you will get ripped up in melee by every other sneak, maybe not a hunter though. I dont care if you knew/know a good melee scout etc etc, at this point in the server, it wont work. I think solo scout is alot of fun, especially with the shield snare. Problem is everyone on the server adds you the second you pop, making kiting useless.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 4:28 PM by inoeth

Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 4:07 PM
Whoever is doing all this scout melee on paper hasnt tried it. Even 50/50 weapon/shield MOBxxx you will get ripped up in melee by every other sneak, maybe not a hunter though. I dont care if you knew/know a good melee scout etc etc, at this point in the server, it wont work. I think solo scout is alot of fun, especially with the shield snare. Problem is everyone on the server adds you the second you pop, making kiting useless.

but cadebrennus has tested it! must be right

DDD

Tue 21 Apr 2020 4:35 PM by Spiegal

- Can we get rid of the un-stealth check while preparing a crit shot... this is so annoying. We already struggle with the damage and pick up proper targets.
- Also, would really like hunters to have access to a 5.3 craftable bow.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 4:53 PM by Centenario

I found an old guide for hunter:
https://web.archive.org/web/20030806182410/http://camelotvault.ign.com/thegame/guides/200305/hunter.shtml

Tue 21 Apr 2020 5:17 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 1:31 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:20 AM
A Scout could run 41 weapon, 42 shield, 36 stealth, and 35 bow no problem, and do as much damage as a Ranger's 1h (DA notwithstanding). Then again, Scouts get access to a DA proc weapon that Rangers and Hunters do not.

scout does same dmg as ranger LOOOL maybe if the ranger is not buffed

looking forward to your test results xD

Same 1h damage comparing Celt to Briton, yes. What game are you playing?

Tue 21 Apr 2020 5:28 PM by Noashakra

They are on the same table but the ranger benefits from the dual effect and hit the same but faster

Tue 21 Apr 2020 6:53 PM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 5:17 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 1:31 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:20 AM
A Scout could run 41 weapon, 42 shield, 36 stealth, and 35 bow no problem, and do as much damage as a Ranger's 1h (DA notwithstanding). Then again, Scouts get access to a DA proc weapon that Rangers and Hunters do not.

scout does same dmg as ranger LOOOL maybe if the ranger is not buffed

looking forward to your test results xD

Same 1h damage comparing Celt to Briton, yes. What game are you playing?

same dmg table does not mean same dmg. there is alot more to be considered.
im playing dark age of camelot and you?

Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:32 PM by Ashenspire

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:29 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 10:16 PM
Penetrating Arrow works exactly as designed.

yes and it's useless

It's not useless. It just doesn't do what you think it should. Which would go against the original design of all casters getting bladeturns to begin with.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:51 PM by daytonchambers

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:32 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:29 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Apr 2020 10:16 PM
Penetrating Arrow works exactly as designed.

yes and it's useless

It's not useless. It just doesn't do what you think it should. Which would go against the original design of all casters getting bladeturns to begin with.

In the original design casters did NOT have bladeturn, only classes that could spec for PBT got a self bladeturn. Once archers started to kill casters en masse in the early days of the game they later added a self-BT to all casters.

That's why the timer mechanics for the self buff work differently depending on what class you're playing.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 1:03 AM by Ashenspire

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:51 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:32 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:29 AM
yes and it's useless

It's not useless. It just doesn't do what you think it should. Which would go against the original design of all casters getting bladeturns to begin with.

In the original design casters did NOT have bladeturn, only classes that could spec for PBT got a self bladeturn. Once archers started to kill casters en masse in the early days of the game they later added a self-BT to all casters.

That's why the timer mechanics for the self buff work differently depending on what class you're playing.

I could've worded it better, but that was my point. They ended up changing it to give a bladeturn to ALL casters because Archers would absolutely murder them before they could react without it.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 7:37 AM by Noashakra

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 1:03 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:51 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 7:32 PM
It's not useless. It just doesn't do what you think it should. Which would go against the original design of all casters getting bladeturns to begin with.

In the original design casters did NOT have bladeturn, only classes that could spec for PBT got a self bladeturn. Once archers started to kill casters en masse in the early days of the game they later added a self-BT to all casters.

That's why the timer mechanics for the self buff work differently depending on what class you're playing.

I could've worded it better, but that was my point. They ended up changing it to give a bladeturn to ALL casters because Archers would absolutely murder them before they could react without it.

And then caster became unkillable by archers, and they gave the archers a shot at half the dmg that would pierce the bubble, which is fair...

Wed 22 Apr 2020 7:38 AM by Centenario

Only one of the caster classes had self-BT, then they gave it to all caster classes.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 9:06 AM by inoeth

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 7:37 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 1:03 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 8:51 PM
In the original design casters did NOT have bladeturn, only classes that could spec for PBT got a self bladeturn. Once archers started to kill casters en masse in the early days of the game they later added a self-BT to all casters.

That's why the timer mechanics for the self buff work differently depending on what class you're playing.

I could've worded it better, but that was my point. They ended up changing it to give a bladeturn to ALL casters because Archers would absolutely murder them before they could react without it.

And then caster became unkillable by archers, and they gave the archers a shot at half the dmg that would pierce the bubble, which is fair...

no it was always just working on auto bubble, never on self bubble.
that did chance with the change of archery being somewhat caster like with a bow instead of a staff

also casters are far away from being unkillable by archers

Wed 22 Apr 2020 10:37 AM by Saroi

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 9:06 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 7:37 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 1:03 AM
I could've worded it better, but that was my point. They ended up changing it to give a bladeturn to ALL casters because Archers would absolutely murder them before they could react without it.

And then caster became unkillable by archers, and they gave the archers a shot at half the dmg that would pierce the bubble, which is fair...

no it was always just working on auto bubble, never on self bubble.

That counts for Penetrating arrow. Volley and Longshot penetrate all bubbles.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 11:24 AM by gotwqqd

Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 10:37 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 9:06 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 7:37 AM
And then caster became unkillable by archers, and they gave the archers a shot at half the dmg that would pierce the bubble, which is fair...

no it was always just working on auto bubble, never on self bubble.

That counts for Penetrating arrow. Volley and Longshot penetrate all bubbles.

Does it break them?

Wed 22 Apr 2020 11:40 AM by Centenario

I know that stealth attacks are supposed to penetrate all bladeturns.
Have to check is critshot is supposed to penetrate all bladeturns.

Penetrating arrow is supposed to penetrate the pulsing bladeturns.

Penetrating means that you break it and you do damage.
If you penetrate at 50% (penetrating arrow 1) then your shot will do 50% damage (50% is used to break the bubble).

Wed 22 Apr 2020 11:56 AM by Noashakra

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 9:06 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 7:37 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 1:03 AM
I could've worded it better, but that was my point. They ended up changing it to give a bladeturn to ALL casters because Archers would absolutely murder them before they could react without it.

And then caster became unkillable by archers, and they gave the archers a shot at half the dmg that would pierce the bubble, which is fair...

no it was always just working on auto bubble, never on self bubble.
that did chance with the change of archery being somewhat caster like with a bow instead of a staff

also casters are far away from being unkillable by archers

There was a shot after ToA that was piercing the bubble with half the dmg.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:00 PM by Saroi

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 11:24 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 10:37 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 9:06 AM
no it was always just working on auto bubble, never on self bubble.

That counts for Penetrating arrow. Volley and Longshot penetrate all bubbles.
Does it break them?

I don't have an archer so I don't exactly now and don't remember exactly how it was back then.

I tried to look up for the patch and I found it in 1.62. However it just states that Volley and Longshot penetrate all bubbles, regardless who casts them but says nothing if it gets destroyed or not. I assume penetrating means destroying but guess it would have to be tested here on Phoenix.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:10 PM by inoeth

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 11:56 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 9:06 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 7:37 AM
And then caster became unkillable by archers, and they gave the archers a shot at half the dmg that would pierce the bubble, which is fair...

no it was always just working on auto bubble, never on self bubble.
that did chance with the change of archery being somewhat caster like with a bow instead of a staff

also casters are far away from being unkillable by archers

There was a shot after ToA that was piercing the bubble with half the dmg.

nope. but i think i know what you maybe mean... there was a shot called sure shot which allowed to snipe without being interrupted but half the dmg. a bit like moc

from 1.69 patch notes:

"Archer Changes

- We have given archers a new ability called Sureshot that is available at 45 bow specialization for Hunters, Rangers, and Scouts. When Sureshot is toggled on, the archer will brace herself against attacks from range, giving her a 100% chance of not being interrupted by any ranged attack, including arrows and spells. Because the bow is being fired from a less natural position, the damage from each arrow is halved. Sureshot cannot be used with Rapid Fire, Critical Shot, Longshot, or Volley. Penetrating Arrow benefits will count towards arrowed fire using Sureshot."

this could maybe help archers here too vs casters and it would only be useable by ppl who pledge oneself to be a true sniper

archery problems solved xD

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:11 PM by Centenario

Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:00 PM
I tried to look up for the patch and I found it in 1.62.

Arrows And Bladeturn

All three Archers now receive a new skill called "Penetrating Arrow", which allow them to penetrate, to some extent, Bladeturn spells. Here's the details:

- Penetrating Arrow will never go through Bladeturns (both pulsing and single-target) on the character that cast the spell. This means that a Warden who casts a bladeturn on himself will never have his own personal bladeturn penetrated.

- Bladeturns cast on group/realm mates can be penetrated. So a Hero that has a pulsing bladeturn (or single target) on him from a friendly Warden can have that bladeturn penetrated.

- Archers receive Penetrating Arrow based on their specialization in their particular Bow skill. They get Penetrating Arrow 1 at 30th spec, Penetrating Arrow 2 at 40th spec, and Penetrating Arrow 3 at 50th spec. Lower levels of PA do less damage by not fully penetrating the bladeturn. The highest level of PA does normal damage.

- Additionally, Longshot and Volley penetrate ALL Bladeturns, regardless of who cast them.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:27 PM by Siouxsie

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 9:06 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 7:37 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 1:03 AM
I could've worded it better, but that was my point. They ended up changing it to give a bladeturn to ALL casters because Archers would absolutely murder them before they could react without it.

And then caster became unkillable by archers, and they gave the archers a shot at half the dmg that would pierce the bubble, which is fair...

no it was always just working on auto bubble, never on self bubble.
that did chance with the change of archery being somewhat caster like with a bow instead of a staff

also casters are far away from being unkillable by archers

Not quite. Casters can spec Physical defense AND Mastery of Concentration then , while your arrows hit them for a pathetic amount, they can MOC and nuke you down in seconds... and you have no recourse but to run out of range or try and melee them, which doesn't matter because they just keep nuking you for insane amounts.

Archers have no 'MOC' for archery.

Physical defense needs removing from the game. There's already spec AF which nerfs archery damage by too much as it is.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:30 PM by Riac

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:27 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 9:06 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 7:37 AM
And then caster became unkillable by archers, and they gave the archers a shot at half the dmg that would pierce the bubble, which is fair...

no it was always just working on auto bubble, never on self bubble.
that did chance with the change of archery being somewhat caster like with a bow instead of a staff

also casters are far away from being unkillable by archers

Not quite. Casters can spec Physical defense AND Mastery of Concentration then , while your arrows hit them for a pathetic amount, they can MOC and nuke you down in seconds... and you have no recourse but to run out of range or try and melee them, which doesn't matter because they just keep nuking you for insane amounts.

Archers have no 'MOC' for archery.

Physical defense needs removing from the game. There's already spec AF which nerfs archery damage by too much as it is.

thats not just an archery problem. moc lifetap casters are damn near unkillable on my r9 sb. disease doesnt seem to matter when it comes to lifetap so they just lol and face tank me as if they were a necro.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:36 PM by inoeth

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:27 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 9:06 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 7:37 AM
And then caster became unkillable by archers, and they gave the archers a shot at half the dmg that would pierce the bubble, which is fair...

no it was always just working on auto bubble, never on self bubble.
that did chance with the change of archery being somewhat caster like with a bow instead of a staff

also casters are far away from being unkillable by archers

Not quite. Casters can spec Physical defense AND Mastery of Concentration then , while your arrows hit them for a pathetic amount, they can MOC and nuke you down in seconds... and you have no recourse but to run out of range or try and melee them, which doesn't matter because they just keep nuking you for insane amounts.

Archers have no 'MOC' for archery.

Physical defense needs removing from the game. There's already spec AF which nerfs archery damage by too much as it is.

agian i doubt every caster has pd, even if... its only 20% here and its secondary which means they dont have 50%. its around 40% which is not bad tbh but far away from unkillable.
also if a caster mocs, any class have hard times... or do you want archers to be that strong they laugh about moc? that would be ridicolous.

not sure where you roam but i have maybe met 5 casters that moced so far on my hunter

i think for most cases sureshot would help archers alot, even if the dmg is low its better than no dmg

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:41 PM by Centenario

Does the hunter pet run at sprinting speed, cause it should with permasprint being the norm.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:47 PM by inoeth

Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:41 PM
Does the hunter pet run at sprinting speed, cause it should with permasprint being the norm.

even faster, you cant escape the doggo

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:47 PM by Noashakra

- Additionally, Longshot and Volley penetrate ALL Bladeturns, regardless of who cast them.

I was right about long shot, I had a ranger 10L7 on live, I wasn't crazy

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:51 PM by Centenario

Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:30 PM
thats not just an archery problem. moc lifetap casters are damn near unkillable on my r9 sb. disease doesnt seem to matter when it comes to lifetap so they just lol and face tank me as if they were a necro.

Maybe try a archer, and you will see that its even harder to get a kill than assassin.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:53 PM by Riac

Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:51 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:30 PM
thats not just an archery problem. moc lifetap casters are damn near unkillable on my r9 sb. disease doesnt seem to matter when it comes to lifetap so they just lol and face tank me as if they were a necro.

Maybe try a archer, and you will see that its even harder to get a kill than assassin.

apples to oranges ? actually depending on the archer, he may have a better time. since im a SB i have no positional stun. however, all of the archers have stuns, so maybe they stun and blow that dude up. QQ more.
honestly though, what a lazy retort lol. what if some caster was crying about dieing to a necro and i chime in "try it on a melee."

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:53 PM by Saroi

Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:11 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:00 PM
I tried to look up for the patch and I found it in 1.62.

Arrows And Bladeturn

All three Archers now receive a new skill called "Penetrating Arrow", which allow them to penetrate, to some extent, Bladeturn spells. Here's the details:

- Penetrating Arrow will never go through Bladeturns (both pulsing and single-target) on the character that cast the spell. This means that a Warden who casts a bladeturn on himself will never have his own personal bladeturn penetrated.

- Bladeturns cast on group/realm mates can be penetrated. So a Hero that has a pulsing bladeturn (or single target) on him from a friendly Warden can have that bladeturn penetrated.

- Archers receive Penetrating Arrow based on their specialization in their particular Bow skill. They get Penetrating Arrow 1 at 30th spec, Penetrating Arrow 2 at 40th spec, and Penetrating Arrow 3 at 50th spec. Lower levels of PA do less damage by not fully penetrating the bladeturn. The highest level of PA does normal damage.

- Additionally, Longshot and Volley penetrate ALL Bladeturns, regardless of who cast them.

Yeah that is what I wrote in short form. Was too lazy to pick it all out.

Still would need some testing if it destroys it or penetrates on Phoenix. I have never seen anything written in any patchnotes.

And seems like almost noone knows about volley and longshot penetrating bladeturns.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:56 PM by Siouxsie

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:36 PM
agian i doubt every caster has pd, even if... its only 20% here and its secondary which means they dont have 50%. its around 40% which is not bad tbh but far away ftrom unkillable.
also if a caster mocs, any class have hard times... or do you want archers to be that strong they laugh about moc? that would be ridicolous.

not sure where you roam but i have maybe met 5 casters that moced so far on my hunter

i think for most cases sureshot would help archers alot, even if the dmg is low its better than no dmg

Most get PD. I have noticed this from my arrow shots by the % in the parentheses. I've seen it 33% and higher.
Maybe I should just get Avoidance of Magic 9!

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:59 PM by Siouxsie

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:47 PM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:41 PM
Does the hunter pet run at sprinting speed, cause it should with permasprint being the norm.

even faster, you cant escape the doggo

It doesn't. I had a hero outsprint my dog yesterday.
Dog couldn't catch up to them. They ran all the way from bolg outpost to nged watchtower and the dog never caught them.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 1:09 PM by inoeth

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:59 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:47 PM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:41 PM
Does the hunter pet run at sprinting speed, cause it should with permasprint being the norm.

even faster, you cant escape the doggo

It doesn't. I had a hero outsprint my dog yesterday.
Dog couldn't catch up to them. They ran all the way from bolg outpost to nged watchtower and the dog never caught them.

yeah because heroes have slightly faster sprint speed, forgot to mention that

Wed 22 Apr 2020 2:48 PM by Cadebrennus

Thu 23 Apr 2020 7:41 AM by Saroi

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 11:24 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 10:37 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 9:06 AM
no it was always just working on auto bubble, never on self bubble.

That counts for Penetrating arrow. Volley and Longshot penetrate all bubbles.
Does it break them?

Yes it does. I have tested it with my Cabalist and let a Scout friend shot on me. Both volley and also longshot penetrated and destroyed the bubble while doing damage.
He was also able to do longshot to destroy the bubble with normal damage and hit me with a crit shot afterwards.

So Archers should start using Long Shot as an opener vs. casters.

Edit: https://imgur.com/a/vc0qE8H

First 2 shots were normal/crit to just show bubble does not get penetrated. 3rd shot which penetrated the bubble was longshot.

And here another screenshot for bubble being penetrated. https://imgur.com/a/CKM4rLL

Note: My Caba does not have SC, simply a farming toon with cap Dex/HP so the damage dealt is not accurate. Was simply to just test about longshot and volley being able to penetrate bubbles from casters.