Minstrel Changes - I've had time to test whats active currently.

So, tested what I could on Minstrel today - found me multiple pets. Orange, red, purple.

Having the pet charm stick isn't the issue. The rate at which it drops charm is making this type of game-play unplayable.

If the developers are looking to reduce people utilizing macros - then why are you trying to give me carpal tunnel or arthritis? You really and truly want me to spam movement speed and charm back and forth every 2 seconds? My fingers legitimately were going numb after about 40 minutes of game-play. That isn't realistic or healthy, nor is it a fair solution. I can't fathom why these changes were released without the second addition of what was discussed - a permanent charm.

But even still - there certainly has to be a better solution. If you guys are wanting the class to be more friendly, you have a couple of options:

a) Making the charm pet drop MORE wasn't a solution. This increases macro usability and makes the class more difficult than before the changes.
b) Lowering the max level we can charm to red is a solution, but also removes the benefit of earning high realm rank to hold higher tier pets. A trade-off many I think would find appropriate.
c) A mid tier solution: Add a baseline MAX level 50 permanent charm to minstrels and mentalists while also making the max level we can charm with our instruments red while also increasing the duration it would last. The duration now of a couple seconds as stated before isn't healthy and I promise you will uptick macros.
d) Leave it as is, add 50 permanent charm, add a RA that we can train to extend duration of non-perma charm.

I hope you guys take this seriously I don't want to quit a class again for being nerfed.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:22 AM by bigne88

Devs trolling im sure.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:25 AM by Nojil

jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 2:43 AM
So, tested what I could on Minstrel today - found me multiple pets. Orange, red, purple.

Having the pet charm stick isn't the issue. The rate at which it drops charm is making this type of game-play unplayable.

If the developers are looking to reduce people utilizing macros - then why are you trying to give me carpal tunnel or arthritis? You really and truly want me to spam movement speed and charm back and forth every 2 seconds? My fingers legitimately were going numb after about 40 minutes of game-play. That isn't realistic or healthy, nor is it a fair solution. I can't fathom why these changes were released without the second addition of what was discussed - a permanent charm.

But even still - there certainly has to be a better solution. If you guys are wanting the class to be more friendly, you have a couple of options:

a) Making the charm pet drop MORE wasn't a solution. This increases macro usability and makes the class more difficult than before the changes.
b) Lowering the max level we can charm to red is a solution, but also removes the benefit of earning high realm rank to hold higher tier pets. A trade-off many I think would find appropriate.
c) A mid tier solution: Add a baseline MAX level 50 permanent charm to minstrels and mentalists while also making the max level we can charm with our instruments red while also increasing the duration it would last. The duration now of a couple seconds as stated before isn't healthy and I promise you will uptick macros.
d) Leave it as is, add 50 permanent charm, add a RA that we can train to extend duration of non-perma charm.

I hope you guys take this seriously I don't want to quit a class again for being nerfed.

I'm sorry but complaining about how hard it is to play a mini while running with speed AND controlling a purp pet is hilarious and delusional.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:26 AM by jlxharville

Nojil wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:25 AM
jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 2:43 AM
So, tested what I could on Minstrel today - found me multiple pets. Orange, red, purple.

Having the pet charm stick isn't the issue. The rate at which it drops charm is making this type of game-play unplayable.

If the developers are looking to reduce people utilizing macros - then why are you trying to give me carpal tunnel or arthritis? You really and truly want me to spam movement speed and charm back and forth every 2 seconds? My fingers legitimately were going numb after about 40 minutes of game-play. That isn't realistic or healthy, nor is it a fair solution. I can't fathom why these changes were released without the second addition of what was discussed - a permanent charm.

But even still - there certainly has to be a better solution. If you guys are wanting the class to be more friendly, you have a couple of options:

a) Making the charm pet drop MORE wasn't a solution. This increases macro usability and makes the class more difficult than before the changes.
b) Lowering the max level we can charm to red is a solution, but also removes the benefit of earning high realm rank to hold higher tier pets. A trade-off many I think would find appropriate.
c) A mid tier solution: Add a baseline MAX level 50 permanent charm to minstrels and mentalists while also making the max level we can charm with our instruments red while also increasing the duration it would last. The duration now of a couple seconds as stated before isn't healthy and I promise you will uptick macros.
d) Leave it as is, add 50 permanent charm, add a RA that we can train to extend duration of non-perma charm.

I hope you guys take this seriously I don't want to quit a class again for being nerfed.

I'm sorry but complaining about how hard it is to play a mini while running with speed AND controlling a purp pet is hilarious and delusional.

Says the kid who didn't read a word I said. It doesn't matter whether the pet is YELLOW, OJ, RED, OR PURPLE. It drops almost instantaneously.

I suppose that is okay with you as well, huh?

Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:29 AM by Nojil

jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:26 AM
Nojil wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:25 AM
jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 2:43 AM
So, tested what I could on Minstrel today - found me multiple pets. Orange, red, purple.

Having the pet charm stick isn't the issue. The rate at which it drops charm is making this type of game-play unplayable.

If the developers are looking to reduce people utilizing macros - then why are you trying to give me carpal tunnel or arthritis? You really and truly want me to spam movement speed and charm back and forth every 2 seconds? My fingers legitimately were going numb after about 40 minutes of game-play. That isn't realistic or healthy, nor is it a fair solution. I can't fathom why these changes were released without the second addition of what was discussed - a permanent charm.

But even still - there certainly has to be a better solution. If you guys are wanting the class to be more friendly, you have a couple of options:

a) Making the charm pet drop MORE wasn't a solution. This increases macro usability and makes the class more difficult than before the changes.
b) Lowering the max level we can charm to red is a solution, but also removes the benefit of earning high realm rank to hold higher tier pets. A trade-off many I think would find appropriate.
c) A mid tier solution: Add a baseline MAX level 50 permanent charm to minstrels and mentalists while also making the max level we can charm with our instruments red while also increasing the duration it would last. The duration now of a couple seconds as stated before isn't healthy and I promise you will uptick macros.
d) Leave it as is, add 50 permanent charm, add a RA that we can train to extend duration of non-perma charm.

I hope you guys take this seriously I don't want to quit a class again for being nerfed.

I'm sorry but complaining about how hard it is to play a mini while running with speed AND controlling a purp pet is hilarious and delusional.

Says the kid who didn't read a word I said. It doesn't matter whether the pet is YELLOW, OJ, RED, OR PURPLE. It drops almost instantaneously.

I suppose that is okay with you as well, huh?

Then choose one...run speed OR a pet. Simple solution you just don't like the solution. Just like a bard, we either pick to have speed/endo OR be a battle bard without one or the other. Bards cant have it all, why should minis

Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:30 AM by jlxharville

Nojil wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:29 AM
jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:26 AM
Nojil wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:25 AM
I'm sorry but complaining about how hard it is to play a mini while running with speed AND controlling a purp pet is hilarious and delusional.

Says the kid who didn't read a word I said. It doesn't matter whether the pet is YELLOW, OJ, RED, OR PURPLE. It drops almost instantaneously.

I suppose that is okay with you as well, huh?

Then choose one...run speed OR a pet. Simple solution you just don't like the solution. Just like a bard, we either pick to have speed/endo OR be a battle bard without one or the other. Bards cant have it all, why should minis

Do yourself a favor and excuse yourself from this discussion. A troll is a troll and you have nothing useful to add. Sure, since we get speed lets just only get that. Can't have a pet. Nope.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:31 AM by Nojil

jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:30 AM
Nojil wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:29 AM
jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:26 AM
Says the kid who didn't read a word I said. It doesn't matter whether the pet is YELLOW, OJ, RED, OR PURPLE. It drops almost instantaneously.

I suppose that is okay with you as well, huh?

Then choose one...run speed OR a pet. Simple solution you just don't like the solution. Just like a bard, we either pick to have speed/endo OR be a battle bard without one or the other. Bards cant have it all, why should minis

Do yourself a favor and excuse yourself from this discussion. A troll is a troll and you have nothing useful to add. Sure, since we get speed lets just only get that. Can't have a pet. Nope.

Skalds have to choose to spec all into speed or more into damage...Bards have to choose into speed or Battle skills....why shouldn't minis have to choose? Im not a troll just disagree with the position

Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:36 AM by jlxharville

Nojil wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:31 AM
jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:30 AM
Nojil wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:29 AM
Then choose one...run speed OR a pet. Simple solution you just don't like the solution. Just like a bard, we either pick to have speed/endo OR be a battle bard without one or the other. Bards cant have it all, why should minis

Do yourself a favor and excuse yourself from this discussion. A troll is a troll and you have nothing useful to add. Sure, since we get speed lets just only get that. Can't have a pet. Nope.

Skalds have to choose to spec all into speed or more into damage...Bards have to choose into speed or Battle skills....why shouldn't minis have to choose? Im not a troll just disagree with the position

LOL no, skalds get instant speed and all the damage. gtfo kid you haven't even played a minstrel or skald this is obvious.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:39 AM by Nojil

jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:36 AM
Nojil wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:31 AM
jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:30 AM
Do yourself a favor and excuse yourself from this discussion. A troll is a troll and you have nothing useful to add. Sure, since we get speed lets just only get that. Can't have a pet. Nope.

Skalds have to choose to spec all into speed or more into damage...Bards have to choose into speed or Battle skills....why shouldn't minis have to choose? Im not a troll just disagree with the position

LOL no, skalds get instant speed and all the damage. gtfo kid you haven't even played a minstrel or skald this is obvious.

What the hell you talking about for a skald to get his damage skills he has to spec battle songs. I also like how you completely ignored the fact about Bards because you know you cant argue the point. Bard have it the worst. Interesting minis are always the ones QQ about their gimp classes. Dont like twisting your skills, dont play a mini.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 6:12 AM by Razur Ur

Why you not running with yellow pet?

Mon 6 Apr 2020 6:58 AM by Centenario

I think it's 1.65-like that you have to recast your pet after every other action.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 7:09 AM by Ele

jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 2:43 AM
So, tested what I could on Minstrel today - found me multiple pets. Orange, red, purple.
...
a) Making the charm pet drop MORE wasn't a solution.
...

The Minstrel changes are not yet implemented. What you describe is the consqeuence of a bug fix:

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 5 Apr 2020 8:20 PM
Charm is a pulse spell, songs are pulse spells that require an instrument, songs gain up to 100% more duration depending on the instrument quality, that is for example why the minstrel flute mezz lasts as long as it does or why skald speed usually drops before bard speed when engaged with amnesia (skald speed is not a song and hence doesn't have the duration bonus whereas bard speed is a song and hence has this bonus, neither pulse renews the effect while in combat and hence the last bard tick will usually have a longer remaining duration).

Before september last year the charm duration was affected by moc, this was fixed in late september, however, this fix accidentally flagged charm as a song except without an instrument requirement. This resulted in each charm application, for minstrels as well as mentalists, to have the duration extended by duration * weapon quality, in case of mp weapons that means double duration.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 1:42 PM by bigne88

Giving tank more hp, breaking minstrel.
What else to kill alb caster setup?
Like there is a viable melee setup....or not.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:46 PM by jlxharville

Ele wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 7:09 AM
jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 2:43 AM
So, tested what I could on Minstrel today - found me multiple pets. Orange, red, purple.
...
a) Making the charm pet drop MORE wasn't a solution.
...

The Minstrel changes are not yet implemented. What you describe is the consqeuence of a bug fix:
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 5 Apr 2020 8:20 PM
Charm is a pulse spell, songs are pulse spells that require an instrument, songs gain up to 100% more duration depending on the instrument quality, that is for example why the minstrel flute mezz lasts as long as it does or why skald speed usually drops before bard speed when engaged with amnesia (skald speed is not a song and hence doesn't have the duration bonus whereas bard speed is a song and hence has this bonus, neither pulse renews the effect while in combat and hence the last bard tick will usually have a longer remaining duration).

Before september last year the charm duration was affected by moc, this was fixed in late september, however, this fix accidentally flagged charm as a song except without an instrument requirement. This resulted in each charm application, for minstrels as well as mentalists, to have the duration extended by duration * weapon quality, in case of mp weapons that means double duration.

Yes, a bug fix which changes the class. A change is a change. This one happened to be drastic.

Hence why I asked why they bothered doing it before rolling out whatever new changes they planned to go with it.

Tue 7 Apr 2020 2:09 AM by Azrael

jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:46 PM
Hence why I asked why they bothered doing it before rolling out whatever new changes they planned to go with it.

So bards can now laugh about qq minstrels which laughed about bards before when they qq about the upcoming amnesia range nerf.
To be serious, this question now differs from your original post. Ele answered imho correctly to your initial post. This was just a fix. Qol so you can run charm and speed at the same time will come.
If you want to ask devs why they did not wait for the fix with the qol improvment - do that, but no need for this kind of qq (ragequit for nerfing) in your post.

Tue 7 Apr 2020 2:21 AM by

gruenesschaf

jlxharville wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:46 PM
Yes, a bug fix which changes the class. A change is a change. This one happened to be drastic.

Hence why I asked why they bothered doing it before rolling out whatever new changes they planned to go with it.

Because the effects of this bug fix influence the second part of the announced minstrel change, the nerf of the top end and if it is even still required (the first part being lowering the barrier of entry by allowing charm to run concurrently with other pulse spells).

Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:24 AM by Ele

gruenesschaf wrote: Because the effects of this bug fix influence the second part of the announced minstrel change, the nerf of the top end and if it is even still required (the first part being lowering the barrier of entry by allowing charm to run concurrently with other pulse spells).

Any chance you could rephrase that? I don't understand the second half of the statement.

ops:

Wed 8 Apr 2020 3:20 PM by joshisanonymous

Ele wrote: ↑
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:24 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: Because the effects of this bug fix influence the second part of the announced minstrel change, the nerf of the top end and if it is even still required (the first part being lowering the barrier of entry by allowing charm to run concurrently with other pulse spells).

Any chance you could rephrase that? I don't understand the second half of the statement. ops:

The second part of the minstrel changes was adding some kind of downside to charming high level mobs. I believe he's saying that this bug fix had the potential of creating a downside, which might mean that there's no need to go ahead with the second part of the minstrel changes so that the only thing changing would be making it easier for new players to get into the class.

If that's the idea, it sounds like the first part of the changes would negate the downside that's been introduced with the bug fix since you wouldn't have to twist in the first place if you can run charm with other songs concurrently.