DEVS: EXPLAIN THE MINSTREL CHANGES IN DETAIL PLEASE

Started 5 Apr 2020
by jlxharville
in Ask the Team
What does this mean??

fix: charm (minstrel, mentalist) is no longer categorized as a song and a such no longer gains up to 100% extra duration based on weapon quality

It doesn't explain the mechanics at all. It also doesn't explain what I should expect as a minstrel player.

Here is what I do know: It's now impossible to twist speed and a pet without it breaking. I can't twist ANY song and keep a pet in synchronized order without it breaking.

Assuming the code already went through as my other mins friends can't even keep a level 53 pet charmed.

Example: I'm twisting a pet with speed, and then I get my pet, but because a song is playing the pet drops even if the charm is the last button clicked.
Sun 5 Apr 2020 8:20 PM by gruenesschaf
Charm is a pulse spell, songs are pulse spells that require an instrument, songs gain up to 100% more duration depending on the instrument quality, that is for example why the minstrel flute mezz lasts as long as it does or why skald speed usually drops before bard speed when engaged with amnesia (skald speed is not a song and hence doesn't have the duration bonus whereas bard speed is a song and hence has this bonus, neither pulse renews the effect while in combat and hence the last bard tick will usually have a longer remaining duration).

Before september last year the charm duration was affected by moc, this was fixed in late september, however, this fix accidentally flagged charm as a song except without an instrument requirement. This resulted in each charm application, for minstrels as well as mentalists, to have the duration extended by duration * weapon quality, in case of mp weapons that means double duration.
Sun 5 Apr 2020 8:34 PM by Quik
Well if Minstrels are complaining you must be on the right path!!
Sun 5 Apr 2020 11:24 PM by Lerox
gruenesschaf wrote: Charm is a pulse spell, songs are pulse spells that require an instrument, songs gain up to 100% more duration depending on the instrument quality, that is for example why the minstrel flute mezz lasts as long as it does or why skald speed usually drops before bard speed when engaged with amnesia (skald speed is not a song and hence doesn't have the duration bonus whereas bard speed is a song and hence has this bonus, neither pulse renews the effect while in combat and hence the last bard tick will usually have a longer remaining duration).

Before september last year the charm duration was affected by moc, this was fixed in late september, however, this fix accidentally flagged charm as a song except without an instrument requirement. This resulted in each charm application, for minstrels as well as mentalists, to have the duration extended by duration * weapon quality, in case of mp weapons that means double duration.

To confirm his answer here a little evidence video from july last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU8BVtVOAVU
In the beginning you can barely see my last charm tick and 8-9 seconds later I lose my pet because it resisted my recharm.

But to be honest that fix will have a big impact on the planned change with the perma charm.
Mon 6 Apr 2020 12:20 AM by jlxharville
Lerox wrote:
Sun 5 Apr 2020 11:24 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: Charm is a pulse spell, songs are pulse spells that require an instrument, songs gain up to 100% more duration depending on the instrument quality, that is for example why the minstrel flute mezz lasts as long as it does or why skald speed usually drops before bard speed when engaged with amnesia (skald speed is not a song and hence doesn't have the duration bonus whereas bard speed is a song and hence has this bonus, neither pulse renews the effect while in combat and hence the last bard tick will usually have a longer remaining duration).

Before september last year the charm duration was affected by moc, this was fixed in late september, however, this fix accidentally flagged charm as a song except without an instrument requirement. This resulted in each charm application, for minstrels as well as mentalists, to have the duration extended by duration * weapon quality, in case of mp weapons that means double duration.

To confirm his answer here a little evidence video from july last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU8BVtVOAVU
In the beginning you can barely see my last charm tick and 8-9 seconds later I lose my pet because it resisted my recharm.

But to be honest that fix will have a big impact on the planned change with the perma charm.

What's this plan for a perma-charm? Are they going to limit my pet to lvl 50 and lower? No oranges, reds?

I mean I am just going off code thats already in the game... its really rough holding a pet now. Not due to resists, but due to behind the scene mechanics. If I straight up cast my charm it will last forever. If i mix a song - and then charm to hold charm - it drops irregardless.

That can't be an intended change.
Mon 6 Apr 2020 12:32 AM by Lerox
jlxharville wrote:
Mon 6 Apr 2020 12:20 AM
What's this plan for a perma-charm? Are they going to limit my pet to lvl 50 and lower? No oranges, reds?

I mean I am just going off code thats already in the game... its really rough holding a pet now. Not due to resists, but due to behind the scene mechanics. If I straight up cast my charm it will last forever. If i mix a song - and then charm to hold charm - it drops irregardless.

That can't be an intended change.

Well I don't know what they will do exactly but as far as I understand there will be the change that you can charm pulse and other songs running the same time without breaking one of those.
So no twisting required anymore.

But with those 10 second duration you will lose a pet after 10 seconds if your 2 automatic recharms after 5 seconds and 10 seconds got resisted.
And who wants to run with a minstrel which has a high pet and loses speed from time to time because the pet broke his speed.
Mon 6 Apr 2020 6:28 AM by Razur Ur
Lerox wrote:
Sun 5 Apr 2020 11:24 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: Charm is a pulse spell, songs are pulse spells that require an instrument, songs gain up to 100% more duration depending on the instrument quality, that is for example why the minstrel flute mezz lasts as long as it does or why skald speed usually drops before bard speed when engaged with amnesia (skald speed is not a song and hence doesn't have the duration bonus whereas bard speed is a song and hence has this bonus, neither pulse renews the effect while in combat and hence the last bard tick will usually have a longer remaining duration).

Before september last year the charm duration was affected by moc, this was fixed in late september, however, this fix accidentally flagged charm as a song except without an instrument requirement. This resulted in each charm application, for minstrels as well as mentalists, to have the duration extended by duration * weapon quality, in case of mp weapons that means double duration.

To confirm his answer here a little evidence video from july last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU8BVtVOAVU
In the beginning you can barely see my last charm tick and 8-9 seconds later I lose my pet because it resisted my recharm.

But to be honest that fix will have a big impact on the planned change with the perma charm.

blame if you absolutely want to charm a purple mob
Mon 6 Apr 2020 6:31 AM by Razur Ur
Lerox wrote:
Mon 6 Apr 2020 12:32 AM
jlxharville wrote:
Mon 6 Apr 2020 12:20 AM
What's this plan for a perma-charm? Are they going to limit my pet to lvl 50 and lower? No oranges, reds?

I mean I am just going off code thats already in the game... its really rough holding a pet now. Not due to resists, but due to behind the scene mechanics. If I straight up cast my charm it will last forever. If i mix a song - and then charm to hold charm - it drops irregardless.

That can't be an intended change.

Well I don't know what they will do exactly but as far as I understand there will be the change that you can charm pulse and other songs running the same time without breaking one of those.
So no twisting required anymore.

But with those 10 second duration you will lose a pet after 10 seconds if your 2 automatic recharms after 5 seconds and 10 seconds got resisted.
And who wants to run with a minstrel which has a high pet and loses speed from time to time because the pet broke his speed.

Then playing not with a high pet (purple) !!! howling around here is like taking a child's lolly away
Mon 6 Apr 2020 2:42 PM by Killaloth
Lerox wrote:
Mon 6 Apr 2020 12:32 AM
And who wants to run with a minstrel which has a high pet and loses speed from time to time because the pet broke his speed.

No one, just take a lower pet and you're good.
Mon 6 Apr 2020 2:54 PM by chewchew
is it intended that song durations scale with instrument quality here in the first place?
pretty sure that live-like would be duration scaling with instrument level and maybe instrument con, but not with instrument quality.
Mon 6 Apr 2020 2:59 PM by Razur Ur
all the minstrels have been pampered with easy charming purple mobs
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:01 PM by Freedomcall
chewchew wrote:
Mon 6 Apr 2020 2:54 PM
is it intended that song durations scale with instrument quality here in the first place?
pretty sure that live-like would be duration scaling with instrument level and maybe instrument con, but not with instrument quality.

Actually you are correct.
Quite a lot of source/evidence says instrument level is the one affecting song duration, not quality of the instrument.
I am also not sure if it was a custom change here, but anyway Uthgard also corrected the code not to be affected by the instrument quality.

https://www.uthgard.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=41233
Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:16 PM by Azrael
Everytime I browse the forum this thread gets my attention thanks to the title. I think people should use caps lock more often so users and especially devs pay attention to really important topics which are pointed out by users using caps lock.
THANK YOU OP FOR USING CAPS LOCK IN YOUR TITLE; I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT!
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