Recent announcement/rule change clarification

The recent announcement is a bit confusing i must say, and i can only imagine how hard it is for people with worse english skills.

From the name it seems that account sharing is not allowed anymore, yet the text eyplicitly only mentions logging other accounts from a single PC. Which is more a PC-sharing issue and quite the opposite of what i would consider accountsharing. I cannot really gauge what will actually lead to problems since it is hard to understand the motivation behind the rulechange.

So logging the account of my friend for whatever reason (even if he is visiting me) is fortbidden. That's clear.

But what about someone travelling for work and logging from different locations? Traditionally i would think that looks like account sharing, but it doesn't fit the description. Allowed? Needs exception? Forbidden?

In the rules you added "account sharing" is forbidden as point 1.2.
1.1 though is still not updated and recommends account sharing for people that don't have enough Computers. Is 1.1 just not updated? Or is accountsharing und 1.1 meant to be fine(because it is still just one account being logged) while accountsharing according to 1.2. is meant more like "pc-sharing" is forbidden?

Mon 24 Feb 2020 8:32 PM by Dragonn

phoenix staff is going totally crazy!

Mon 24 Feb 2020 9:15 PM by Ceen

Welcome to Uthgard 3.0

Mon 24 Feb 2020 9:29 PM by Loki

I think Phoenix staff has much more info about you and your account than you think they do. You're basically weighing things from your perspective, when its much clearer for them when account sharing is happening, as opposed to a one time use from an IP that was never utilized before. They have already stated they are willing to discuss if there are cases where the rule is wrongfully enforced. I never understood why it was allowed in the first place, I couldnt believe it when I heard it first. It leads to a shit storm of problems.

It's funny to read the sob stories in Discord, about distant sons and broken families, and how devs will ban everyone and families will be destroyed, or how this change single-handedly destroys the 8v8 scene. Give me a break, if you want to have a bard ready for action you can be rr6 and temped in 2 weeks max and rr6 is more than enough to have a competitive RA kit ready for the hardcore level of skill on Phoenix.

Mon 24 Feb 2020 9:32 PM by Quik

The rule itself seems perfectly clear to me.

Quite simply, from what I gather, only 1 account can be used on a computer, and there is no way they will care that the same account might be used on multiple computers AS LONG as n other accounts are used on them.

So if you have a home computer, a work computer, a laptop or 2, you could use the same account on all of them as long as that is the only account being used on them.

I do agree the title is misleading because account sharing to me is drastically different then multiple accounts on the same computer. Account sharing to me is multiple people using 1 account to play the game.

Not sure what you would call this, maybe computer sharing? lol no idea.

We do need clarification though because if they are saying only 1 account to 1 computer and that same account can't be used on my laptop, well, they will lose a few people.

Tue 25 Feb 2020 12:09 AM by

gruenesschaf

The basic rule is: one person may only use one account -> no account sharing.

In technical terms that means for the vast majority of people: one computer may only be used for one account and each account may be used from any number of computers (as long as each of those computers is only ever using that one account).

This covers cases where people play from home and from work / while traveling via a laptop and would mean zero change for them.

Tue 25 Feb 2020 8:29 AM by bigne88

I dont share any acc. so this change dosen't touch me personally, but it seems a bit strange that this thing has changed now after more than 1 year, after that the higer rankers (wont make names but we all know who im referring to) of the server exploited this to farm Ranks, when the server was launched.

Nowdays there are few people that thanks to acc. sharing can fill more roles in a party, especially on UStz, where population counter is more at risk.

I dont say it is good or bad, just asking "why now?"
Maybe you dont have enough staff members to check every account sharing?
Do you wanna subtelty get rid of some hig rank character used by 8v8 members to sink some RR?
I hope that wathever your plan is, it wont have a boomerang effect.

Tldr; I'm sure there is a reason, but why now? What did it change this days, after a year?

Edit: this weekend Ill get a new gaming PC, do I have to notify it to a gm?

Tue 25 Feb 2020 10:43 AM by querbeet

Just imagine for a second a family sharing a computer and the young son has an account and dad has one as well on the same machine becasue they can only afford one machine... killed the game for those kind of set-ups. bit of a too heavy-handed measure that may hit the wrong people.

Tue 25 Feb 2020 10:45 AM by Sepplord

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 8:29 AM
Edit: this weekend Ill get a new gaming PC, do I have to notify it to a gm?

According to Gruens clarification, no you don't.

Unless it is a preowned PC and the person you are buying from also played on phoenix from that PC, which i believe is very unlikely

.

Tue 25 Feb 2020 2:54 PM by Dragonn

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 12:09 AM
The basic rule is: one person may only use one account -> no account sharing.

In technical terms that means for the vast majority of people: one computer may only be used for one account and each account may be used from any number of computers (as long as each of those computers is only ever using that one account).

This covers cases where people play from home and from work / while traveling via a laptop and would mean zero change for them.

well... me, my wife, my brother, and his son are playng phoenix.
We dont remember which account is bounded on which pc etc.

So maybe u have to "reset" all your old data about account and PC bounding, and start from now!

Tue 25 Feb 2020 3:37 PM by Sepplord

They are probably doing that, otherwise it would make no sense if they retroactively ban everyone

After a 7- day grace period (Beginning Tuesday, March 3rd, 2020) we will enforce the rule.

I would take this as confirmation that they will not start punishing multiple accounts logged from the same computer before 03.03.2020 (<-nice date btw. to avoid confusion between americans and europeans

)

Tue 25 Feb 2020 5:25 PM by Ardri

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 12:09 AM
The basic rule is: one person may only use one account -> no account sharing.

In technical terms that means for the vast majority of people: one computer may only be used for one account and each account may be used from any number of computers (as long as each of those computers is only ever using that one account).

This covers cases where people play from home and from work / while traveling via a laptop and would mean zero change for them.

Wasn't account sharing one of the founding principles of the server? To facilitate more people playing and to ease the forming of groups?

This change seems to go against that. It reminds me of...server before this one. As the population continues to decrease, this only makes it harder and to form.

Tue 25 Feb 2020 6:27 PM by

gruenesschaf

Ardri wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 5:25 PM
Wasn't account sharing one of the founding principles of the server? To facilitate more people playing and to ease the forming of groups?

This change seems to go against that. It reminds me of...server before this one. As the population continues to decrease, this only makes it harder and to form.

Yes. From a player perspective there is not much reason why account sharing would not be allowed, we basically thought so as well and even after seeing the effects for us we tried to make it work for the last year, however, the added amount of work required is quite impressive and we just no longer want to deal with spending a couple hours more each day just because of account sharing and unexpectedly this amount of work didn't really become less with fewer players.
As with pretty much all rules: the behavior of the few ruin it for the many.

Sepplord wrote: They are probably doing that, otherwise it would make no sense if they retroactively ban everyone

After a 7- day grace period (Beginning Tuesday, March 3rd, 2020) we will enforce the rule.

I would take this as confirmation that they will not start punishing multiple accounts logged from the same computer before 03.03.2020 (<-nice date btw. to avoid confusion between americans and europeans )

There will be no retroactive action, however, as we get closer to that date some people might get notified that their logging behavior of the last 2 days would be in violation if they repeat it after the 3rd.

Tue 25 Feb 2020 8:18 PM by Wolfir666

Personally i think that's a good change.

There were just too many loopholes on the accountsharing thing and i can imagine it was getting way too much effort to find out if it actually was accountsharing or 2nd account.

Tue 25 Feb 2020 9:19 PM by Bobbahunter

This makes no sense and I feel sorry for people who have one comp but multiple family members. Why can you allow a 1 week period where people can email you all family account infos and is there a way to group them together so you can see by the IPs supplied that they’re from the same house? I can understand not having someone from USA log into to a toon and then the same account the next day from Germany. But your really hurting the family aspect. Slowly killing it.
This game is free and is awesome but I never heard people complaint about account sharing? Seems every fix you make the less people log in.
Stop fixing stuff without voting. You GMs wanted to creat something better than UTHGARD and you did but now your turning yourselves into the staff we all left. We didn’t leave the game the server left us.

Thank you

Tue 25 Feb 2020 10:03 PM by Quik

I don't get why people this is a big deal.

If 2 people in the same family want to both play DAoC on the same computer, just use the same account since it has multiple pages for alts.

I understand it is generally frowned upon, but with the announcement of this change the dev's have got to be ok with this as it would leave no other options for families.

Not like its hard to start new toons and get them back to RR5 and above quickly, plus you could simply have a friend help transfer gear if you want the same class.

Tue 25 Feb 2020 11:41 PM by The Skies Asunder

I strongly dislike this change. It was a very welcome option that Phoenix offered over other freeshards. It still wasn't as good as Live where you could basically do whatever with your account, but it was nice to be able to use guildie's accounts for crafting, or friends accounts for farming, or forming groups when they had a toon you didn't. Seeing as nearly everyone I began playing with has quit (at least temporarily), and I have been using their accounts for these purposes from time to time, I have to vocally oppose this change.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 9:17 AM by Starkjad

so my wife isnt allowed to log in her account on our pc , while iam at work ? o_O

Wed 26 Feb 2020 9:35 AM by

Uthred

That was already forbidden before the acc sharing change.

"1.1 Multiple Phoenix accounts are not permitted.

There may only be one account per person and each person must have their own computer"

If you only have one computer, you can only have one acc.

If you and your wife have two computers, you now have to decide who will use which computer in the future.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 12:46 PM by querbeet

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 9:35 AM
That was already forbidden before the acc sharing change.

"1.1 Multiple Phoenix accounts are not permitted.

There may only be one account per person and each person must have their own computer"

If you only have one computer, you can only have one acc.

If you and your wife have two computers, you now have to decide who will use which computer in the future.

So if I want to buy a new computer in the future your little scanner reports me as a misbehaved child and I get to go on the naughty step as I am clearly in breach of the policy by buying a new machine and using it to play DAoC? Really?

Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:10 PM by Lasastard

querbeet wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 12:46 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 9:35 AM
That was already forbidden before the acc sharing change.

"1.1 Multiple Phoenix accounts are not permitted.

There may only be one account per person and each person must have their own computer"

If you only have one computer, you can only have one acc.

If you and your wife have two computers, you now have to decide who will use which computer in the future.

So if I want to buy a new computer in the future your little scanner reports me as a misbehaved child and I get to go on the naughty step as I am clearly in breach of the policy by buying a new machine and using it to play DAoC? Really?

That's not how the change will work, unless you are buying a new computer, and giving your old computer to your spouse who used to play on an even older computer. But they also said that players are welcome to discuss any "special" circumstances with them - so presumably such an edge case would fall into that category.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:13 PM by

Uthred

You can play your acc from as many different computers as you like. No other account may be accessed from those computers though. This should be the case if you buy a new computer.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:25 PM by querbeet

Lasastard wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:10 PM
querbeet wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 12:46 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 9:35 AM
That was already forbidden before the acc sharing change.

"1.1 Multiple Phoenix accounts are not permitted.

There may only be one account per person and each person must have their own computer"

If you only have one computer, you can only have one acc.

If you and your wife have two computers, you now have to decide who will use which computer in the future.

So if I want to buy a new computer in the future your little scanner reports me as a misbehaved child and I get to go on the naughty step as I am clearly in breach of the policy by buying a new machine and using it to play DAoC? Really?

That's not how the change will work, unless you are buying a new computer, and giving your old computer to your spouse who used to play on an even older computer. But they also said that players are welcome to discuss any "special" circumstances with them - so presumably such an edge case would fall into that category.

I appreciate your response, but calling a likely situation ina normal family an edge case is, with all respect, nonsense. When I buy myself a new machine my child gets my old machine. That is how things roll if you don't want to spent an arm and a leg on computers for the family. In that, how you call it, 'edge' case both, the provider and the dependent are in danger to lose their DAoC account.

Not a very well thought through and not very close to reality policy if you ask me. But who cares? It's a free service and we have to roll with it I guess or if we dare to oppose being too pushy for the mood on a particular day we get an honorable mention here, don't we? Being a heavy handed admin team only deserves respect if said team makes up for cases of people who might get effed over by heavy hands by no fault of their own or even by not consciously act against a policy.

That being said:

Lasastard wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:10 PM
But they also said that players are welcome to discuss any "special" circumstances with them - so presumably such an edge case would fall into that category.

Can you point me to where that was said, please?

Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:39 PM by Sepplord

querbeet wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:25 PM
Lasastard wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:10 PM
But they also said that players are welcome to discuss any "special" circumstances with them - so presumably such an edge case would fall into that category.

Can you point me to where that was said, please?

At the bottom of the first post of the official Announcement

And regarding "edge" case...how often are you buying new computers that it would be a regular occurence compared to the amount of times you log in?
I agree that the "solution" is not consumer friendly, but they have acknowledged that and said they tried to avoid it. They will have to deal with loads of people like you buying a new computer, and still decided to do it. So even if you don't believe their "multiple hours daily" claim, they are definitely spending a considerable amount of time on this. For free. For you!
Yet it seems you can't even be arsed to read their announcements carefully, at least before you go complain.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 2:05 PM by querbeet

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:39 PM
querbeet wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:25 PM
Lasastard wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:10 PM
But they also said that players are welcome to discuss any "special" circumstances with them - so presumably such an edge case would fall into that category.

Can you point me to where that was said, please?

At the bottom of the first post of the official Announcement

And regarding "edge" case...how often are you buying new computers that it would be a regular occurence compared to the amount of times you log in?
I agree that the "solution" is not consumer friendly, but they have acknowledged that and said they tried to avoid it. They will have to deal with loads of people like you buying a new computer, and still decided to do it. So even if you don't believe their "multiple hours daily" claim, they are definitely spending a considerable amount of time on this. For free. For you!
Yet it seems you can't even be arsed to read their announcements carefully, at least before you go complain.

If everytime I state an opinion it is considered a complaint... well wonderful world we live in. Stating an opinion comes down to either:

You state your opnion, you must be complaining, or
You have an opinion therefor you are automatically negative towards me because I have a different opinion....

Right now i think the first bullet item applies but #justsaying

As for 'can't be arsed' if you haven't understood the gist of mt post I will put it here in very clear words: I challenge a policy that is mandated and first punishes and then the person being punished possibly for no reaon has to come and petition their innocence. That can't be right. That isn't a complaint. That is a statement of opnion.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 2:32 PM by Sepplord

querbeet wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 2:05 PM
If everytime I state an opinion it is considered a complaint... well wonderful world we live in. Stating an opinion comes down to either:

You state your opnion, you must be complaining, or
You have an opinion therefor you are automatically negative towards me because I have a different opinion....

Right now i think the first bullet item applies but #justsaying

As for 'can't be arsed' if you haven't understood the gist of mt post I will put it here in very clear words: I challenge a policy that is mandated and first punishes and then the person being punished possibly for no reaon has to come and petition their innocence. That can't be right. That isn't a complaint. That is a statement of opnion.

If you want to argue semantics, fine. In my world stating a negative opinion is a complaint. Google the definiton of the word complaint, it's literally a statement of dissapointment or dissatisfaction. And has always been. It seems you take offense in the word itself, maybe you have a misconception there. I didn't state anything about complaints in general being bad. As you said, it's just your opinion. An ignorant opinion apparently made without putting minimal effort to even read the announcement, but an opinion. That's where you are correct.

You even say in the end that the gist of your post is to challenge the new policy. How would that in any way not be a complaint? That's seriously mindboggling for me, and i don't know why you even brought up the semantics

I believe you are forgetting that this is a free community project, being paid for by the staff and presented to you completely free of charge. And again that doesn't mean you should not voice complaints when you disagree with decisions or changes. That's fine. But putting in a minimum amount of effort (aka. reading the announcement of a change you want to complain about) before complaining seems like a thing a reasonable person would do. I believe you need to reconsider your position regarding who you are in the context of the phoenixserver. It seems all you see is yourself and your family and how hard life will be because of the new rules that requires you to interact with a GM for 10minutes without being an asshole about it.

That isn't a complaint. That is a statement of opnion.

I am still chuckling at that part when rereading your comment. Such a hard selfown while puffing up.
If your name was Karen that would be so meta

Wed 26 Feb 2020 2:49 PM by Bobbahunter

Can we have a progressive ban? I don’t see how this should roll an account deletion ban but how about each time your account is flagged the ban is longer.
1st time a warning
2nd time 1day account ban
3rd time 3 day ban
4 th time 5 day ban
And so on. Eventually you figure out how to fix the issue or that account won’t be playable?

Wed 26 Feb 2020 3:08 PM by bigne88

I love reading 2 yankees debating. English is their primary language, and for this rrason it should be easy to comprehense, but the arguments are completly made up randomically:
Progressive ban to figure out, googling the word "complain", debating subjective opinions, reading carefully statements, family life...
Jeeeeeezus, reading the last posts made lose 50 qi points.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 3:08 PM by querbeet

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 2:32 PM
If you want to argue semantics, fine. In my world stating a negative opinion is a complaint. Google the definiton of the word complaint, it's literally a statement of dissapointment or dissatisfaction. And has always been. It seems you take offense in the word itself, maybe you have a misconception there. I didn't state anything about complaints in general being bad. As you said, it's just your opinion. An ignorant opinion apparently made without putting minimal effort to even read the announcement, but an opinion. That's where you are correct.

You even say in the end that the gist of your post is to challenge the new policy. How would that in any way not be a complaint? That's seriously mindboggling for me, and i don't know why you even brought up the semantics

I believe you are forgetting that this is a free community project, being paid for by the staff and presented to you completely free of charge. And again that doesn't mean you should not voice complaints when you disagree with decisions or changes. That's fine. But putting in a minimum amount of effort (aka. reading the announcement of a change you want to complain about) before complaining seems like a thing a reasonable person would do. I believe you need to reconsider your position regarding who you are in the context of the phoenixserver. It seems all you see is yourself and your family and how hard life will be because of the new rules that requires you to interact with a GM for 10minutes without being an asshole about it.

That isn't a complaint. That is a statement of opnion.

I am still chuckling at that part when rereading your comment. Such a hard selfown while puffing up.
If your name was Karen that would be so meta

Wow, you are hurt. Typing all that to show how valiantly you defend the lady in your shiny armor. Well done you! *doh*

If that is your view and whatever let you to argue like you did I think I guess we leave the word with your intellectul superiority and give you the feeling of owning that guy who is so angry and sad that his family got robbed of the opportuinity to play a game the way they like. YOu continue what you are doing. You are excellent at that!

I got back in my box now . Your wisdom remains unrivalled. You own this place now. /worship

@GM team
Can I just say. It's still a bad policy. In dubio pro reo - which is what you guys are not applying.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 3:09 PM by Ashenspire

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 3:08 PM
I love reading 2 yankees debating. English is their primary language, and for this rrason it should be easy to comprehense, but the arguments are completly made up randomically:
Progressive ban to figure out, googling the word "complain", debating subjective opinions, reading carefully statements, family life...
Jeeeeeezus, reading the last posts made lose 50 qi points.

Talk about reading something making someone dumber...this hurt my head.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 3:12 PM by querbeet

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 3:08 PM
I love reading 2 yankees debating. English is their primary language, and for this rrason it should be easy to comprehense, but the arguments are completly made up randomically:
Progressive ban to figure out, googling the word "complain", debating subjective opinions, reading carefully statements, family life...
Jeeeeeezus, reading the last posts made lose 50 qi points.

Just to correct something. I am neither a native English speaker nor a Yankee. I think if I would be American my English would be better. You're not a native English speaker yourself, are you?

Wed 26 Feb 2020 3:25 PM by bigne88

querbeet wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 3:12 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 3:08 PM
I love reading 2 yankees debating. English is their primary language, and for this rrason it should be easy to comprehense, but the arguments are completly made up randomically:
Progressive ban to figure out, googling the word "complain", debating subjective opinions, reading carefully statements, family life...
Jeeeeeezus, reading the last posts made lose 50 qi points.

Just to correct something. I am neither a native English speaker nor a Yankee. I think if I would be American my English would be better. You're not a native English speaker yourself, are you?

Correct im not. My english level can be considered as "subhuman"

Wed 26 Feb 2020 3:29 PM by querbeet

good to know

Wed 26 Feb 2020 3:34 PM by Sepplord

Apparrently mine is good enough to be considered an american ^^
You would be surprised though, among the people using englisch in forums, native speakers have the worst english.
That's not because americans are too stupid to speak their own language, it's just that uneducated (for example) germans don't spend as much time in an english forum as an uneducated american would.

It's a really intresting topic, and above is just my personal theory why it seems that native speakers butcher their language the most, but i have to stop writing now. I don't want to get "someone" worrying that i am hurt

Wed 26 Feb 2020 6:12 PM by Lipsi

Bobbahunter wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 9:19 PM
This makes no sense and I feel sorry for people who have one comp but multiple family members. Why can you allow a 1 week period where people can email you all family account infos and is there a way to group them together so you can see by the IPs supplied that they’re from the same house? I can understand not having someone from USA log into to a toon and then the same account the next day from Germany. But your really hurting the family aspect. Slowly killing it.
This game is free and is awesome but I never heard people complaint about account sharing? Seems every fix you make the less people log in.
Stop fixing stuff without voting. You GMs wanted to creat something better than UTHGARD and you did but now your turning yourselves into the staff we all left. We didn’t leave the game the server left us.

Thank you

May be allow to fusion accounts into one global account in the case of multiple family members who have only one comp ?
After all, having only one comp, they were not able to play at the same time already, without violating dual logging rule, and with 100 character slots on a single one account, there should be room for all family members to play their characters. No ?

Edit : by "fusion" account, i mean merging ^^ , a possibility to move one or multiple characters from one account, to another account, and that option should not be a permanent one of course, but given one and for all. I think that has happened in the past on live servers when there was merging of servers and realm incompatibilities and could be technically possible.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 8:39 PM by Bicstor

Lipsi wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 6:12 PM
May be allow to fusion accounts into one global account in the case of multiple family members who have only one comp ?
After all, having only one comp, they were not able to play at the same time already, without violating dual logging rule, and with 100 character slots on a single one account, there should be room for all family members to play their characters. No ?
'''''

If there was only one computer in the household to start with then they should of been sharing 1 account with the 100 slots in the first place. One computer = one account creation, creating multiple accounts on the same computer is against the server rules.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 9:02 PM by Lipsi

Yes i agree
I don't know why people do that, they click that they accept server rules and policies and it seems that they don't read the rules, even if they have no wrong intentions and no plans to cheat.
Then when rules are being enforced, because of a minority of people who break them to abuse, those who were not cheating have a feeling of deception. They forget that they ignored the rules and accepted them in the first place.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 9:12 PM by Wolfir666

Bicstor wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 8:39 PM
If there was only one computer in the household to start with then they should of been sharing 1 account with the 100 slots in the first place. One computer = one account creation, creating multiple accounts on the same computer is against the server rules.

Exactly. So asking now if that means that a 2nd person isnt able to login anymore on a 2nd account using the *only* household computer basically means to admit to have broken the rules already before.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 11:50 PM by The Skies Asunder

Perhaps the dev team would consider merging accounts to avoid some of the problems this may create. My roommate basically doesn't play at all anymore, and though his account was created on a different computer, it normally gets used on my computer. Since i leveled some Hibs for him, because he didn't want to do it, it would be nice to still have access to those characters without having to use his computer to do it. Missing out on all the crafter access on friends accounts is going to be quite irritating too. Mostly just a giant annoyance for the player base, but seeing that I have no insight into what the devs have to deal with, then maybe it is the only real option.

Thu 27 Feb 2020 8:26 AM by Sepplord

To be fair, at the start of the server, it was not against the rules to make multiple accounts on the same computer as long as it wasn't a single person using multiple accounts. They backtracked on that rule before, because it made enforcement almost impossible and required a lot of work to differentiate between abusers.
Now they are going another step further and everytime a few innocents are inconvenienced and might even get wrongly banned before it can get cleared up.
The pessimistic outlook is that everything is shit and will always be shit and the staff is incompetent and is just on a powertrip to fuck everyone over just cause. If that's the stance someone wants to take...

The thing is: They know. They know this is not user friendly, and they know that for us average users there are only downsides (there are/can be indirect benefits though). They have said they tried to avoid it but that the additional workload is just too much to keep up with. This change will probably short term increase their workload because they will be investigating/verifying with people that ask for exceptions. But after that they will have less administrative work which could lead to more work being done regarding actual server/gameplay-improvements. That's the optimistic outlook.

I chose to tend towards the optimistic stance more than the pessimistic one. Imo the extreme pessimistic case isn't logical. In the end I am still playing on this server and enjoy it...so the status quo is that they have given me something good. Even if I disagree with some decisions and also have been upset with the handling in some situations, ALL IN ALL i like what has been done and that the server exists in the way it does. I prefer the current situation to the situation of having no server. So when i look at the people that are making the server happen, they will always get the benefit of the doubt.

Thu 27 Feb 2020 10:50 PM by Isavyr

Each decision has pros and cons. They will catch some people who are exploiting and they will ban innocents as well. Will they ban more exploiters than innocents? My feeling is "no", as my guess is that there are more families than there are exploiters/hackers/cheaters. Could be wrong.

Another guess is that a lot of the people that we see in 8v8 discords that were permanently banned, but now playing on their friend's accounts, are following the rules and playing legitimately. So while they lost their account, and the team says they should never play phoenix again, the problem to the other users is limited because these cheaters don't want to risk getting their friend's account banned too. So, in my view, there's not a threat to the community, it's just that the Phoenix admins want to ensure those they permanently banned never play again. The cost of this decision will be innocents.

I'm curious to see how this goes forward.

Sun 1 Mar 2020 2:51 AM by ephron

This change is a real bummer because my daughter and i play all the time on two different computers, however we always bounce between the two based on if my wife is using one of them. It is pretty doubtful i will be able to continue playing based on this unless they start allowing some sort of exception.

Mon 2 Mar 2020 7:33 AM by char

I applaud the devs for trying to stop cheating. Things that negatively affect the game for others should be blocked by policy or programmatically.

This change however seems like it negatively affects more folks than it protects from bad behavior. From my point of view, this breaks a bunch of basic quality of life things that should be allowed. For instance, my wife just started playing on Phoenix. She thought she'd like a bard, but had a rough time in Thid. She wanted to try some of the classes on my account. This change would block that. If we get DF, it would be nice to run my and her toons out there to be able to XP later in the evening. We have a single laptop, now we have to choose who gets to use it to play casually around the house.

Perhaps I don't understand what this change is meant to prevent. I'm 100% in support of punishing behavior that harms others. Punish any actual rule breaking that happens if folks log someone else's account and break a rule on it. I don't see the point in blocking dual logging itself though. This is 2020, not 2002.

Mon 2 Mar 2020 7:36 AM by Sepplord

char wrote: ↑
Mon 2 Mar 2020 7:33 AM
I applaud the devs for trying to stop cheating. Things that negatively affect the game for others should be blocked by policy or programmatically.

This change however seems like it negatively affects more folks than it protects from bad behavior. From my point of view, this breaks a bunch of basic quality of life things that should be allowed. For instance, my wife just started playing on Phoenix. She thought she'd like a bard, but had a rough time in Thid. She wanted to try some of the classes on my account. This change would block that. If we get DF, it would be nice to run my and her toons out there to be able to XP later in the evening. We have a single laptop, now we have to choose who gets to use it to play casually around the house.

Perhaps I don't understand what this change is meant to prevent. I'm 100% in support of punishing behavior that harms others. Punish any actual rule breaking that happens if folks log someone else's account and break a rule on it. I don't see the point in blocking dual logging itself though. This is 2020, not 2002.

they already talk about that possibility in the announcement...just contact them

Tue 10 Mar 2020 10:16 PM by jhaerik

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 12:09 AM
The basic rule is: one person may only use one account -> no account sharing.

In technical terms that means for the vast majority of people: one computer may only be used for one account and each account may be used from any number of computers (as long as each of those computers is only ever using that one account).

This covers cases where people play from home and from work / while traveling via a laptop and would mean zero change for them.

So what you are really saying is all boxers need to make sure to user separate machines and not just a virtual machine and a VPN?

Gotcha.

For the record rules like this only hurt people trying to legitimately enjoy the game, it' does nothing to people who want to find ways around it.
Just like the Everquest progression "truebox" servers. Nothing 4 machines and Syngery to stream desktops to one PC to allow for single mouse/keyboard control.

Honestly I will never get p-servers and their endless crusade to stop multiboxers. It doesn't stop the ones with half a brain, and often isn't true to how the game was actually played.

Wed 11 Mar 2020 12:38 PM by chryso

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Mar 2020 10:16 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 12:09 AM
The basic rule is: one person may only use one account -> no account sharing.

In technical terms that means for the vast majority of people: one computer may only be used for one account and each account may be used from any number of computers (as long as each of those computers is only ever using that one account).

This covers cases where people play from home and from work / while traveling via a laptop and would mean zero change for them.

So what you are really saying is all boxers need to make sure to user separate machines and not just a virtual machine and a VPN?

Gotcha.

For the record rules like this only hurt people trying to legitimately enjoy the game, it' does nothing to people who want to find ways around it.
Just like the Everquest progression "truebox" servers. Nothing 4 machines and Syngery to stream desktops to one PC to allow for single mouse/keyboard control.

Honestly I will never get p-servers and their endless crusade to stop multiboxers. It doesn't stop the ones with half a brain, and often isn't true to how the game was actually played.

LOL, you aren't even playing anymore yet you are still here to whine about the game.
Dude, get a hobby.

Sun 12 Apr 2020 3:39 PM by dbeattie71

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 12:09 AM
The basic rule is: one person may only use one account -> no account sharing.

In technical terms that means for the vast majority of people: one computer may only be used for one account and each account may be used from any number of computers (as long as each of those computers is only ever using that one account).

This covers cases where people play from home and from work / while traveling via a laptop and would mean zero change for them.

I thought this was ok as long as either account was never logged at the same time and in this case if they ever were logged at the same time, its never from the same household. I had asked about this and that's what I remeber being the answer. Before reading this, I logged my friends account, like in the past to get the $ from our CM.

Sun 12 Apr 2020 4:55 PM by Saroi

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 3:39 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 12:09 AM
The basic rule is: one person may only use one account -> no account sharing.

In technical terms that means for the vast majority of people: one computer may only be used for one account and each account may be used from any number of computers (as long as each of those computers is only ever using that one account).

This covers cases where people play from home and from work / while traveling via a laptop and would mean zero change for them.

I thought this was ok as long as either account was never logged at the same time and in this case if they ever were logged at the same time, its never from the same household. I had asked about this and that's what I remeber being the answer. Before reading this, I logged my friends account, like in the past to get the $ from our CM.

It used to be allowed to log in a friends account or so but since the beginning of march it is no longer allowed.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12618