Attract more players, possibly about 100-200! This is how:

Hello everyone,

first let's say, i think, that we all know, that a healthy player base is crucial for our beloved phoenix server.
So that it may exist hopefully for many, many years to come!

My Suggestion to get higher player numbers than currently,
is simple:
Restore the archer archetype. Archery is broken here, we all know that.
Many players, including myself, love to be an archer in a mmo.
Some will even move on, if they cannot.
Some already must have done so.

Why not attract a portion of them to play the game again and prevent others from leaving
by fixing archery?

Tue 18 Feb 2020 12:37 PM by Lollie

Archery definetly needs looking at, but whether the devs want to or know how to is a different matter.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 12:54 PM by Siouxsie

Vote +1 this thread.
Get archery damage fixed. It's way too low.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 1:01 PM by bigne88

The opposite dude. We need more players to party with and fight against.
No need to have more stealth edgy solo players who griefs from safe distance the fun of other players.

-1

Tldr;
+1 to delete stealthers.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:01 PM by inoeth

archery is fine
learn to play your class lol

Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:19 PM by jk123

inoeth wrote: archery is fine
learn to play your class lol

Archery is not spear/dw/1hd+shield. Those are different spec lines.
Don't you think?
I never said, that the ranger or hunter class couldn't compete.
Or did i do that?

Please, if you think, that your opinion matters on this topic,
answer to what has been said and not what you make of it in your own mind.
Thanks.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:32 PM by inoeth

jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:19 PM
inoeth wrote: archery is fine
learn to play your class lol

Archery is not spear/dw/1hd+shield. Those are different spec lines.
Don't you think?
I never said, that the ranger or hunter class couldn't compete.
Or did i do that?

Please, if you think, that your opinion matters on this topic,
answer to what has been said and not what you make of it in your own mind.
Thanks.

?
topic is "archery is broke" is it? i said archery is fine
i did not say anything about rangers or hunters could not compete
are you drunk?

Tue 18 Feb 2020 4:02 PM by Lollie

If archery was fine then surely people would be speccing higher than 27/35 in what is the class defining spec line?
It's meh at best, somewhat because everyone and thier dog has spec af now. Something needs to be done to entice people to go higher in bow, whether it be move volley and long shot to 40/50 bow or just give a flat damage increase at higher spec, but at the minute it just isnt worth it.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 4:16 PM by jk123

inoeth wrote:
jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:19 PM
inoeth wrote: archery is fine
learn to play your class lol

Archery is not spear/dw/1hd+shield. Those are different spec lines.
Don't you think?
I never said, that the ranger or hunter class couldn't compete.
Or did i do that?

Please, if you think, that your opinion matters on this topic,
answer to what has been said and not what you make of it in your own mind.
Thanks.

?
topic is "archery is broke" is it? i said archery is fine
i did not say anything about rangers or hunters could not compete
are you drunk?

Making the statement, that archery was fine and
at the same time telling me to learn to play my class,
implies that in my opinion.
Because in order to be successful at playing an archer here, you must rely much more on melee capabilities than on any archery. In fact you can do quite well without speccing a lot into archery, wheras you cannot be successfull at all without speccing much, much more into melee than bow spec.
Hence your statement, that archery was fine, only made sense, if you took the whole set of abilities of archer classes into consideration, mainly their melee capabilites, when you were making your well thought out remarks....
I am not drunk atm, thanks for asking.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 4:38 PM by inoeth

jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 4:16 PM
inoeth wrote:
jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:19 PM
Archery is not spear/dw/1hd+shield. Those are different spec lines.
Don't you think?
I never said, that the ranger or hunter class couldn't compete.
Or did i do that?

Please, if you think, that your opinion matters on this topic,
answer to what has been said and not what you make of it in your own mind.
Thanks.

?
topic is "archery is broke" is it? i said archery is fine
i did not say anything about rangers or hunters could not compete
are you drunk?

Making the statement, that archery was fine and
at the same time telling me to learn to play my class,
implies that in my opinion.
Because in order to be successful at playing an archer here, you must rely much more on melee capabilities than on any archery. In fact you can do quite well without speccing a lot into archery, wheras you cannot be successfull at all without speccing much, much more into melee than bow spec.
Hence your statement, that archery was fine, only made sense, if you took the whole set of abilities of archer classes into consideration, mainly their melee capabilites, when you were making your well thought out remarks....
I am not drunk atm, thanks for asking.

oh im sorry i did took a look on the whole class. plz buff warriors thrown weapons are sooo bad it doesnt even make dmg with 50 skill in it, warriors are so underpowered....
but you are right you dont need to spec much into bow, only 27 to be exact and still do quite good dmg, does this make archers bad? no the opposite is true, you can be a really good melee while still do alot of dmg with your bow

l2p

Tue 18 Feb 2020 8:24 PM by Luluko

When it comes to stealthers every buff can be game breaking or you end up with fullgrps of stealths like on ywain. And it slowly went downhill with the action when everyone rather joined a stealthgrp than having to fight some of the visible grps.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 8:25 PM by Ashenspire

Lollie wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 4:02 PM
somewhat because everyone and thier dog has spec af now.

This is one of the biggest flaws in my opinion and is my number one gripe.

Spec AF used to be an Albion only and very rare charge for the other realms ability.

You didn't have everyone running around with an armor class a tier above theirs. This hurts any physical damage dealer, and doubly so any class that had an AF buff built into their kit.

They should give a lesser version of celerity to Paladins and Wardens and lower range instant amnesia to Healer and Sorcerer to make up for taking something that was unique to Albion and giving a lesser version to everyone on the server via a potion. At the very least take it off the combined forces potion.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 9:03 PM by jk123

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 4:38 PM
jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 4:16 PM
inoeth wrote: ?
topic is "archery is broke" is it? i said archery is fine
i did not say anything about rangers or hunters could not compete
are you drunk?

Making the statement, that archery was fine and
at the same time telling me to learn to play my class,
implies that in my opinion.
Because in order to be successful at playing an archer here, you must rely much more on melee capabilities than on any archery. In fact you can do quite well without speccing a lot into archery, wheras you cannot be successfull at all without speccing much, much more into melee than bow spec.
Hence your statement, that archery was fine, only made sense, if you took the whole set of abilities of archer classes into consideration, mainly their melee capabilites, when you were making your well thought out remarks....
I am not drunk atm, thanks for asking.

oh im sorry i did took a look on the whole class. plz buff warriors thrown weapons are sooo bad it doesnt even make dmg with 50 skill in it, warriors are so underpowered....
but you are right you dont need to spec much into bow, only 27 to be exact and still do quite good dmg, does this make archers bad? no the opposite is true, you can be a really good melee while still do alot of dmg with your bow

l2p

If you had only read my initial statement with understanding, you could have chosen to keep the silence.
You may do that now. If you can't figure out, what i meant, read my second post again.
Some players like to play archers (being able to kill stuff with the bow, you know - not just pull/tickle/leech). Some people like to be effective with a bow only and a bit less so in melee.
In the original game and to my knowledge in every other serious version of the game you could play those sniper-archers and hybrid-versions with heavy bow-spec. Many players loved it and it lasted for more than a decade, that that playstyle was playable and enjoyable.

Here on phoenix you can't do that effectively. THAT is my point.
In comparison to those times bow dmg here is absolutely subpar, so that it is mandatory to focus on melee. Not everyone likes that. I am talking about those players, that are not attracted by this server, but repelled, because of that. Understand?
Here scouts are totally useless, you should better delete the class in order to not trap someone into leveling one. Some races like lurikeens and kobolds for ranger and hunter are a bad choice here, which were the dominant archer races in the orignal game.

I am happy, that you seem to like your class, but don't come here and tell me in aggressive and insulting two-liners,
that only your vision of playing archers mattered, when you obviously can't read or comprehend sufficiently, what you have read, nor know the game long enough to be able to compare this server to anything else. Some are born in the gutter and just never get away from there mentally.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 10:04 PM by Pao

Scouts need love. Give them the self buffs in the shield line or something. Rest of the archer are better off, but archer dmg is still way too low.
At the same time you let sins hit like a truck. Archer are easy to interrupt and dont have vanish. Not see the reason why you have gimped them unplayable with low rr.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 11:41 PM by jk123

Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 8:24 PM
When it comes to stealthers every buff can be game breaking or you end up with fullgrps of stealths like on ywain. And it slowly went downhill with the action when everyone rather joined a stealthgrp than having to fight some of the visible grps.

Yes, indeed. This has to be done very, very carefully. Nothing would be worse, than overpowering archery.
But there were really a couple of indirect nerfs to archery on the phoenix server recently (charge-nerf/buffpot-change, armor weaknesses halved, hp buff, even when before archery was rather subpar.
There are by original game design already so many counters to nullify bow dmg (NS, CC, QC, Pets, Shield, Bladeturn, special styles(VW), interrupt code, battery, etc.)
and then some unique phoenix features like critshot-immunity and legion-charge, availability of 180 healproc-vest&perfect gear for everyone, etc..

While crit-immunity could be a good nerf/feature to prevent unfair zerging in comparison to original daoc, all nerfs added together really sum up very badly for archery on this server. The way stats work on phoenix is rather bad for archery too - does anyone remember having a 388 dex Ranger back then? Breaking points, weaponskill?

An Archer, who specs heavily into archery should have a decent chance of killing an even opponent under good circumstances (range, arrows, enemy mistakes, etc.) mostly with bow - max. finish in melee with mediocre ability - only some class exceptions.

Here, scouts should be deleted at all, the class serves no purpose at all. Hunters&Rangers better be melee spec, 27 bow gives you at least a slightly better short bow.
I don't like it. All those legolas-Fans out there surely neither and will stay away from this server.

Wed 19 Feb 2020 8:37 AM by Sepplord

the main problem with strong archery is that it removes any counterplay against assisting archers

if a single archer can actually do this: "who specs heavily into archery should have a decent chance of killing an even opponent under good circumstances (range, arrows, enemy mistakes, etc.) mostly with bow"
Then what happens when two or three of them stand on a bridge and assist into passing groups/smallmen and then hide/jump/scatter again?

Strong archery + archery from stealth

That's just a bad combination. And i really doubt it would increase the server population.

Wed 19 Feb 2020 10:59 AM by Pao

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 8:37 AM
the main problem with strong archery is that it removes any counterplay against assisting archers

if a single archer can actually do this: "who specs heavily into archery should have a decent chance of killing an even opponent under good circumstances (range, arrows, enemy mistakes, etc.) mostly with bow"
Then what happens when two or three of them stand on a bridge and assist into passing groups/smallmen and then hide/jump/scatter again?

Strong archery + archery from stealth

That's just a bad combination. And i really doubt it would increase the server population.

whats the difference, when sins assist each other and you eat few PAs?

Wed 19 Feb 2020 11:37 AM by inoeth

jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 9:03 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 4:38 PM
jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 4:16 PM
Making the statement, that archery was fine and
at the same time telling me to learn to play my class,
implies that in my opinion.
Because in order to be successful at playing an archer here, you must rely much more on melee capabilities than on any archery. In fact you can do quite well without speccing a lot into archery, wheras you cannot be successfull at all without speccing much, much more into melee than bow spec.
Hence your statement, that archery was fine, only made sense, if you took the whole set of abilities of archer classes into consideration, mainly their melee capabilites, when you were making your well thought out remarks....
I am not drunk atm, thanks for asking.

oh im sorry i did took a look on the whole class. plz buff warriors thrown weapons are sooo bad it doesnt even make dmg with 50 skill in it, warriors are so underpowered....
but you are right you dont need to spec much into bow, only 27 to be exact and still do quite good dmg, does this make archers bad? no the opposite is true, you can be a really good melee while still do alot of dmg with your bow

l2p

If you had only read my initial statement with understanding, you could have chosen to keep the silence.
You may do that now. If you can't figure out, what i meant, read my second post again.
Some players like to play archers (being able to kill stuff with the bow, you know - not just pull/tickle/leech). Some people like to be effective with a bow only and a bit less so in melee.
In the original game and to my knowledge in every other serious version of the game you could play those sniper-archers and hybrid-versions with heavy bow-spec. Many players loved it and it lasted for more than a decade, that that playstyle was playable and enjoyable.

Here on phoenix you can't do that effectively. THAT is my point.
In comparison to those times bow dmg here is absolutely subpar, so that it is mandatory to focus on melee. Not everyone likes that. I am talking about those players, that are not attracted by this server, but repelled, because of that. Understand?
Here scouts are totally useless, you should better delete the class in order to not trap someone into leveling one. Some races like lurikeens and kobolds for ranger and hunter are a bad choice here, which were the dominant archer races in the orignal game.

I am happy, that you seem to like your class, but don't come here and tell me in aggressive and insulting two-liners,
that only your vision of playing archers mattered, when you obviously can't read or comprehend sufficiently, what you have read, nor know the game long enough to be able to compare this server to anything else. Some are born in the gutter and just never get away from there mentally.

Then you did not experiance very old daoc times...
Archers sucked there too and heavily relied on true sight RA or zerg.
Well still i have to admid, since the hp buff its more difficult to kill from range, but its possible.

Also back in the days ppl had specbuffs and none ran af buffs, thats why bow dmg was a bit higher then.

Still i dont think raising the bow dmg is needed.
With my hunter i crit shot for 500 on leather and normal around 250, i think this is pretty ok for only 27 bow.
Maybe remove af buff from combined forces and give back specable mos or true sight and camouflage.

Btw none of what you said recently was written in your initial post

Wed 19 Feb 2020 12:00 PM by Sepplord

Pao wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 10:59 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 8:37 AM
the main problem with strong archery is that it removes any counterplay against assisting archers

if a single archer can actually do this: "who specs heavily into archery should have a decent chance of killing an even opponent under good circumstances (range, arrows, enemy mistakes, etc.) mostly with bow"
Then what happens when two or three of them stand on a bridge and assist into passing groups/smallmen and then hide/jump/scatter again?

Strong archery + archery from stealth

That's just a bad combination. And i really doubt it would increase the server population.

whats the difference, when sins assist each other and you eat few PAs?

Uhhh really? Is that a serious question? Are you thinking about a solo getting ganked by multiple stealthers? That's not the scenario i am referring to.

1. Range
2. positional requirement (not talking about the "front" requirement, i am talking about being in the pathway of your target)
3. noticeability -> reactiontime
4. chance of survival of the assisting stealthers
5. skillrequirement (you can argue that PAing a speed6 enemy is easy, but it is in no way easier than shooting an arrow at the same target)

Wed 19 Feb 2020 12:19 PM by Forlornhope

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 11:37 AM
jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 9:03 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 4:38 PM
oh im sorry i did took a look on the whole class. plz buff warriors thrown weapons are sooo bad it doesnt even make dmg with 50 skill in it, warriors are so underpowered....
but you are right you dont need to spec much into bow, only 27 to be exact and still do quite good dmg, does this make archers bad? no the opposite is true, you can be a really good melee while still do alot of dmg with your bow

l2p

If you had only read my initial statement with understanding, you could have chosen to keep the silence.
You may do that now. If you can't figure out, what i meant, read my second post again.
Some players like to play archers (being able to kill stuff with the bow, you know - not just pull/tickle/leech). Some people like to be effective with a bow only and a bit less so in melee.
In the original game and to my knowledge in every other serious version of the game you could play those sniper-archers and hybrid-versions with heavy bow-spec. Many players loved it and it lasted for more than a decade, that that playstyle was playable and enjoyable.

Here on phoenix you can't do that effectively. THAT is my point.
In comparison to those times bow dmg here is absolutely subpar, so that it is mandatory to focus on melee. Not everyone likes that. I am talking about those players, that are not attracted by this server, but repelled, because of that. Understand?
Here scouts are totally useless, you should better delete the class in order to not trap someone into leveling one. Some races like lurikeens and kobolds for ranger and hunter are a bad choice here, which were the dominant archer races in the orignal game.

I am happy, that you seem to like your class, but don't come here and tell me in aggressive and insulting two-liners,
that only your vision of playing archers mattered, when you obviously can't read or comprehend sufficiently, what you have read, nor know the game long enough to be able to compare this server to anything else. Some are born in the gutter and just never get away from there mentally.

Then you did not experiance very old daoc times...
Archers sucked there too and heavily relied on true sight RA or zerg.
Well still i have to admid, since the hp buff its more difficult to kill from range, but its possible.

Also back in the days ppl had specbuffs and none ran af buffs, thats why bow dmg was a bit higher then.

Still i dont think raising the bow dmg is needed.
With my hunter i crit shot for 500 on leather and normal around 250, i think this is pretty ok for only 27 bow.
Maybe remove af buff from combined forces and give back specable mos or true sight and camouflage.

Btw none of what you said recently was written in your initial post

Hey, so I'm just finishing up a hunter's temp and since I've seen you post more than once with some good advice I feel like this is an easy way to find ya. I was wondering about putting extra points into bow while you're decreasing your stealth as you gain rr, it will likely see very marginal increase in damage if any but I felt like it would be more relevant than increasing my spear which is already at 44. Thoughts?

Wed 19 Feb 2020 3:01 PM by thirian24

ATTENTION!!!:

I KNOW HOW TO FIX PHOENIX SERVER POPULATION!

Buff the class that I play. Kthxbye

LMFAO

Man gtfoh

Wed 19 Feb 2020 3:05 PM by Razur Ur

Champion need more love give RR5 ability and cl´s plz :-)

Wed 19 Feb 2020 4:06 PM by Riac

id be willing to bet that archers stealth zerging and being gay in general has caused more ppl to quit than it would ever draw to the server.
nerf archery into the ground pls.

Wed 19 Feb 2020 5:18 PM by Horus

Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 4:06 PM
id be willing to bet that archers stealth zerging and being gay in general has caused more ppl to quit than it would ever draw to the server.
nerf archery into the ground pls.

Out of the top 250 RP earners last week there are 6 archers total: 3 hunters, 2 scouts, and 1 ranger. All relatively low RR. The 1st appears at 108 (hunter). I suspect that is not uncommon for the last few weeks due to all the archer nerfs that have gone in to an already underpowered.

So where is this prolific archer stealth zerg you speak of? Thid?

Wed 19 Feb 2020 5:28 PM by Ashenspire

Group with another Archer and murder people 2v1. You'll get less RPs per kill but you'll actually, ya know, kill things.

This weird obsession of "I want to solo all the time" is weird.

Wed 19 Feb 2020 7:23 PM by Riac

Horus wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 5:18 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 4:06 PM
id be willing to bet that archers stealth zerging and being gay in general has caused more ppl to quit than it would ever draw to the server.
nerf archery into the ground pls.

Out of the top 250 RP earners last week there are 6 archers total: 3 hunters, 2 scouts, and 1 ranger. All relatively low RR. The 1st appears at 108 (hunter). I suspect that is not uncommon for the last few weeks due to all the archer nerfs that have gone in to an already underpowered.

So where is this prolific archer stealth zerg you speak of? Thid?

as it turns out, leeching doesnt give many rps. mainly because youre sponging off of others ppls work. its not about the rps theyve made. its about the fun that they ruin.
the archer zerg doesnt have to be "prolific" its lame ass ppl that cant play for shit standing under guards @ bridges waiting on something to happen so they can leech off of it. or sitting in an obscure area at the dock waiting for something to happen so they can leech, they generally dont seek out their own action. most ppl will say its because they are weak, i dont agree with that though. the ppl playing that sort of archetype are full on in leech mode and always have been.

Wed 19 Feb 2020 9:36 PM by gromet12

Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 4:06 PM
id be willing to bet that archers stealth zerging and being gay in general has caused more ppl to quit than it would ever draw to the server.
nerf archery into the ground pls.

Stealthers in general...especially Sins

Thu 20 Feb 2020 12:16 AM by Riac

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 9:36 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 4:06 PM
id be willing to bet that archers stealth zerging and being gay in general has caused more ppl to quit than it would ever draw to the server.
nerf archery into the ground pls.

Stealthers in general...especially Sins

edit:wrong thread lol. yea you prolly right, but im not pretending that buffing them is gonna bring ppl to the game. ridiculous claim.

Thu 20 Feb 2020 2:42 AM by gotwqqd

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 1:01 PM
The opposite dude. We need more players to party with and fight against.
No need to have more stealth edgy solo players who griefs from safe distance the fun of other players.

-1

Tldr;
+1 to delete stealthers.

This “grief other player’s fun” is the lamest argument all the elitist solo/8v8 make.
You think it’s fun for anyone to get rolled by superior numbers?
Or a gray con getting fanned xping or turning in at pier?

Thu 20 Feb 2020 3:08 AM by pollojack

Elf Slash Ranger is literally the try-hard of stealther classes. Very strong vs other sins and has IP which ignores disease and self dmg add to make up for no poison.

Hunter is strong solo, killing rr7-9 inf/nss at rr3.

Scout would likely lose a melee to a hunter but slam is handy for groups.

Which brings me to bow dmg. It is fine, strong even if you can keep the enemy still. Hunters don't have CC though. Crit Shot does roughly the same dmg as a PA, 500. Longshot and Volley go through BT. I have two shot plenty of Animists using Long Shot and then Crit Shot. Stop dumping 50 points into bow. This server deals dmg as averages. You can't use a styled attack so anything past composite 52 is 0% bonus dmg. I run at 49 composit, switching to a faster bow if I need rapid fire.

Possible buffs if you absolutely wanted something? D/Q buff for Scout and Speed 2 10 min re-use. Remove % to destealth on crit shot if 50 stealth for all archers.

The problem with high dmg is you will get people just adding or forming archer groups and instagibbing people. Archer is intended as a group class anyway. Hunters stun is a rear, rangers stun is a side while also shorter understanding it can be easily abused, scout has 9 sec shield stun. If not stunning they can help allies instantly with bow dmg, usually worth two swings of a dual weilder 250-300 dmg.

<3 Frostbiter

Thu 20 Feb 2020 8:10 AM by inoeth

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 12:19 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 11:37 AM
jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 9:03 PM
If you had only read my initial statement with understanding, you could have chosen to keep the silence.
You may do that now. If you can't figure out, what i meant, read my second post again.
Some players like to play archers (being able to kill stuff with the bow, you know - not just pull/tickle/leech). Some people like to be effective with a bow only and a bit less so in melee.
In the original game and to my knowledge in every other serious version of the game you could play those sniper-archers and hybrid-versions with heavy bow-spec. Many players loved it and it lasted for more than a decade, that that playstyle was playable and enjoyable.

Here on phoenix you can't do that effectively. THAT is my point.
In comparison to those times bow dmg here is absolutely subpar, so that it is mandatory to focus on melee. Not everyone likes that. I am talking about those players, that are not attracted by this server, but repelled, because of that. Understand?
Here scouts are totally useless, you should better delete the class in order to not trap someone into leveling one. Some races like lurikeens and kobolds for ranger and hunter are a bad choice here, which were the dominant archer races in the orignal game.

I am happy, that you seem to like your class, but don't come here and tell me in aggressive and insulting two-liners,
that only your vision of playing archers mattered, when you obviously can't read or comprehend sufficiently, what you have read, nor know the game long enough to be able to compare this server to anything else. Some are born in the gutter and just never get away from there mentally.

Then you did not experiance very old daoc times...
Archers sucked there too and heavily relied on true sight RA or zerg.
Well still i have to admid, since the hp buff its more difficult to kill from range, but its possible.

Also back in the days ppl had specbuffs and none ran af buffs, thats why bow dmg was a bit higher then.

Still i dont think raising the bow dmg is needed.
With my hunter i crit shot for 500 on leather and normal around 250, i think this is pretty ok for only 27 bow.
Maybe remove af buff from combined forces and give back specable mos or true sight and camouflage.

Btw none of what you said recently was written in your initial post

Hey, so I'm just finishing up a hunter's temp and since I've seen you post more than once with some good advice I feel like this is an easy way to find ya. I was wondering about putting extra points into bow while you're decreasing your stealth as you gain rr, it will likely see very marginal increase in damage if any but I felt like it would be more relevant than increasing my spear which is already at 44. Thoughts?

Well imo more than 27 is waste for hunters, better get spear to 50

Thu 20 Feb 2020 2:40 PM by Luluko

jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 11:41 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 8:24 PM
When it comes to stealthers every buff can be game breaking or you end up with fullgrps of stealths like on ywain. And it slowly went downhill with the action when everyone rather joined a stealthgrp than having to fight some of the visible grps.

Yes, indeed. This has to be done very, very carefully. Nothing would be worse, than overpowering archery.
But there were really a couple of indirect nerfs to archery on the phoenix server recently (charge-nerf/buffpot-change, armor weaknesses halved, hp buff, even when before archery was rather subpar.
There are by original game design already so many counters to nullify bow dmg (NS, CC, QC, Pets, Shield, Bladeturn, special styles(VW), interrupt code, battery, etc.)
and then some unique phoenix features like critshot-immunity and legion-charge, availability of 180 healproc-vest&perfect gear for everyone, etc..

While crit-immunity could be a good nerf/feature to prevent unfair zerging in comparison to original daoc, all nerfs added together really sum up very badly for archery on this server. The way stats work on phoenix is rather bad for archery too - does anyone remember having a 388 dex Ranger back then? Breaking points, weaponskill?

An Archer, who specs heavily into archery should have a decent chance of killing an even opponent under good circumstances (range, arrows, enemy mistakes, etc.) mostly with bow - max. finish in melee with mediocre ability - only some class exceptions.

Here, scouts should be deleted at all, the class serves no purpose at all. Hunters&Rangers better be melee spec, 27 bow gives you at least a slightly better short bow.
I don't like it. All those legolas-Fans out there surely neither and will stay away from this server.

archers should be able to kill a class for sure with range but do they need stealth then is another question high range damage and stealth isnt easiely to balance if people can grp up

Thu 20 Feb 2020 3:35 PM by Horus

pollojack wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 3:08 AM
Elf Slash Ranger is literally the try-hard of stealther classes. Very strong vs other sins and has IP which ignores disease and self dmg add to make up for no poison.

Hunter is strong solo, killing rr7-9 inf/nss at rr3.

Scout would likely lose a melee to a hunter but slam is handy for groups.

Which brings me to bow dmg. It is fine, strong even if you can keep the enemy still. Hunters don't have CC though. Crit Shot does roughly the same dmg as a PA, 500. Longshot and Volley go through BT. I have two shot plenty of Animists using Long Shot and then Crit Shot. Stop dumping 50 points into bow. This server deals dmg as averages. You can't use a styled attack so anything past composite 52 is 0% bonus dmg. I run at 49 composit, switching to a faster bow if I need rapid fire.

Possible buffs if you absolutely wanted something? D/Q buff for Scout and Speed 2 10 min re-use. Remove % to destealth on crit shot if 50 stealth for all archers.

The problem with high dmg is you will get people just adding or forming archer groups and instagibbing people. Archer is intended as a group class anyway. Hunters stun is a rear, rangers stun is a side while also shorter understanding it can be easily abused, scout has 9 sec shield stun. If not stunning they can help allies instantly with bow dmg, usually worth two swings of a dual weilder 250-300 dmg.

<3 Frostbiter

I'd like to see the screenshot of you two shotting a lev 50 caster. Impossible to put enough damage down range on them in two shots unless they are sitting or all their AF shields are down.

Thu 20 Feb 2020 5:00 PM by chois

i dont know how people can say scout will loose in melee versus hunter... hmm i ve an idea maybe cause it s impossible to see more than 10 scouts log in rvr in same time, classe was defined for the bow damage first and on this server will never kill someone with the bow in open field or he s afk:p, can land 2/3 arrowes before the target is out ofrange sor for a scout it means in the better case 500 for crit and 2 arrowes around 250 so 1k damage and the target still run like a chicken without problem, how u can catch a target without speed who sprint like u? well never... and scout vs hunter is 50/50 if the scout built his temp/ra and tools correctly

Thu 20 Feb 2020 6:15 PM by easytoremember

Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 3:35 PM
I'd like to see the screenshot of you two shotting a lev 50 caster. Impossible to put enough damage down range on them in two shots unless they are sitting or all their AF shields are down.

Even then you're not going to 2shot anyone

Thu 20 Feb 2020 6:35 PM by gromet12

easytoremember wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 6:15 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 3:35 PM
I'd like to see the screenshot of you two shotting a lev 50 caster. Impossible to put enough damage down range on them in two shots unless they are sitting or all their AF shields are down.
Even then you're not going to 2shot anyone

If sitting and AFK maybe a ranger/scout could

The cap on a 5.5 bow is around 1k critical with regular shot cap 500, so someone sitting down could take 1500 from 2 shots in a hypothetical world, the reality is that caster has a tank with him, and you hit the shield twice due to 80% block rate with a large shield vs arrows

Thu 20 Feb 2020 6:57 PM by Riac

id like to know if op made this thread title sensational on purpose or if theyre really dumb enough to think buffing bow dmg will bring 100-200 people to the server.

Thu 20 Feb 2020 7:50 PM by jk123

Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 6:57 PM
id like to know if op made this thread title sensational on purpose or if theyre really dumb enough to think buffing bow dmg will bring 100-200 people to the server.

Legolas, Riac....
Legolas! Everyone wants to be like Legolas!
Except maybe you might prefer playing shagrat or gollum.

Legolas would just have died miserably in the Battle for Helm's Deep, if he had only phoenix-server-like archery.
Rohan would have fallen -> No Ride of the Rohirrim to help Minas Tirith -> No killing of the Witch King through Eowen->
Sauron wins.

Do you understand now, Riac, m8?

Thu 20 Feb 2020 8:23 PM by Azrael

-1 for lying in your title. I heavily doubt that a higher (or "fixed" ) archery damage would bring so many ppl back. If there would really that many ppl create a archer class they would probably broke the game for all other solos/duos/smallman

edit: the more often i read your title the shittier it gets. It is like one of these bait titles you read nowadays to get more clicks. admins hate this trick.

Thu 20 Feb 2020 8:54 PM by jk123

Azrael wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 8:23 PM
-1 for lying in your title. I heavily doubt that a higher (or "fixed" ) archery damage would bring so many ppl back. If there would really that many ppl create a archer class they would probably broke the game for all other solos/duos/smallman

edit: the more often i read your title the shittier it gets. It is like one of these bait titles you read nowadays to get more clicks. admins hate this trick.

Of course you are right. Total Exaggeration. But you came here also, didn't you? PR works.
Imo there is no lie, because honestly i think lying some way or another always backfires, so i try not to.
I might stir false impressions through that exaggeration, that's the design, but not a lie. Clickbait is more suitable.
If you are an Admin or close to them, since you know, what they dislike, please tell them to think about unnerfing archery.

Thu 20 Feb 2020 10:36 PM by pollojack

Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 3:35 PM
pollojack wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 3:08 AM
Elf Slash Ranger is literally the try-hard of stealther classes. Very strong vs other sins and has IP which ignores disease and self dmg add to make up for no poison.

Hunter is strong solo, killing rr7-9 inf/nss at rr3.

Scout would likely lose a melee to a hunter but slam is handy for groups.

Which brings me to bow dmg. It is fine, strong even if you can keep the enemy still. Hunters don't have CC though. Crit Shot does roughly the same dmg as a PA, 500. Longshot and Volley go through BT. I have two shot plenty of Animists using Long Shot and then Crit Shot. Stop dumping 50 points into bow. This server deals dmg as averages. You can't use a styled attack so anything past composite 52 is 0% bonus dmg. I run at 49 composit, switching to a faster bow if I need rapid fire.

Possible buffs if you absolutely wanted something? D/Q buff for Scout and Speed 2 10 min re-use. Remove % to destealth on crit shot if 50 stealth for all archers.

The problem with high dmg is you will get people just adding or forming archer groups and instagibbing people. Archer is intended as a group class anyway. Hunters stun is a rear, rangers stun is a side while also shorter understanding it can be easily abused, scout has 9 sec shield stun. If not stunning they can help allies instantly with bow dmg, usually worth two swings of a dual weilder 250-300 dmg.

<3 Frostbiter

I'd like to see the screenshot of you two shotting a lev 50 caster. Impossible to put enough damage down range on them in two shots unless they are sitting or all their AF shields are down.

Sitting doesn't matter for cloth. I specified animist because they often don't have their AF/ABS buff up, so much afking and shrooming. BT is forever so you always need to open with longshot or volley.

Fri 21 Feb 2020 12:50 AM by Riac

jk123 wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 8:54 PM
Azrael wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 8:23 PM
-1 for lying in your title. I heavily doubt that a higher (or "fixed" ) archery damage would bring so many ppl back. If there would really that many ppl create a archer class they would probably broke the game for all other solos/duos/smallman

edit: the more often i read your title the shittier it gets. It is like one of these bait titles you read nowadays to get more clicks. admins hate this trick.

Of course you are right. Total Exaggeration. But you came here also, didn't you? PR works.
Imo there is no lie, because honestly i think lying some way or another always backfires, so i try not to.
I might stir false impressions through that exaggeration, that's the design, but not a lie. Clickbait is more suitable.
If you are an Admin or close to them, since you know, what they dislike, please tell them to think about unnerfing archery.

lol this guy

Fri 21 Feb 2020 2:27 PM by Horus

pollojack wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 10:36 PM
Sitting doesn't matter for cloth. I specified animist because they often don't have their AF/ABS buff up, so much afking and shrooming. BT is forever so you always need to open with longshot or volley.

Ohh I don't think you are right about that. I've defended many a keep and there is def a diff in damage between a standing caster and sitting ones.

I think you hit for cap on sitting targets. I've never hit for cap against a standing lev 50 caster.

You might try a duel with a caster buddy to test.

Fri 21 Feb 2020 10:24 PM by pollojack

Horus wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Feb 2020 2:27 PM
pollojack wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 10:36 PM
Sitting doesn't matter for cloth. I specified animist because they often don't have their AF/ABS buff up, so much afking and shrooming. BT is forever so you always need to open with longshot or volley.

Ohh I don't think you are right about that. I've defended many a keep and there is def a diff in damage between a standing caster and sitting ones.

I think you hit for cap on sitting targets. I've never hit for cap against a standing lev 50 caster.

You might try a duel with a caster buddy to test.

Well, I won't argue that. One longshot and one crit has killed several animists that were standing though.

Sun 23 Feb 2020 8:20 PM by Fribrand

Hello,

I played Scout almost exclusively back in the day (2000-2003).
I started right after a HUGE nerf to them and everyone said I would hate it.
I didn't. It was still fun to play for me.

On Phoenix server... I started with Scout and leveled to 50.
I was underwhelmed by the class and so I tried Ranger and Hunter.
I like both the Ranger and the Hunter better than the Scout but did not level either to 50.

Instead... I rolled other classes and only occasionally play an archer class.

Even so... I want the Devs to hear my point of view:
Do not increase bow damage or encourage spec'ing more than 35 into Bow!
Any buff to damage would have people screaming for a nerf in some other fashion.
Requiring 40+ Bow would make melee and the side benefits completely wack.

It is true that the changes made on this server have diminished the value or archery but there are other ways to make these classes more effective. Things like realm abilities and some changes to the spec lines is the way to go in my opinion.

I was going to start a thread with my recommendations but wanted to play all 3 so i fully understood what was needed.
And of course, RL stuff keeps me busy. I will post them eventually...

Mon 24 Feb 2020 1:29 AM by Isavyr

Stealthers in DAOC have shit design--they are used for griefing, and their gameplay more-often subtracts from the game than adds. Giving archers more damage would make people leave, not bring more people to play. Don't add to an already broken design.

Instead, if Phoenix is to make changes to stealthers, it should be aimed at overall utility. Faster movement speed in stealth, better utility in groups, enhancing their niche roles (re-tooling volley to be an area of denial, better realm intelligence providing tools), etc. The only problem with doing this is it would move away from Classic design. While classic design is overall great, it has huge issues, and stealthers are one of them.

Mon 24 Feb 2020 6:45 AM by Highfather17

Bring back point blank shot.

Cause why not archers will still suck.

Mon 24 Feb 2020 11:21 PM by jk123

Bye bye Good Luck!
00:19 CET
Albion 243
Midgard 253
Hibernia 252

Tue 25 Feb 2020 1:17 AM by Riac

jk123 wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Feb 2020 11:21 PM
Bye bye Good Luck!
00:19 CET
Albion 243
Midgard 253
Hibernia 252

one less archer, looks good to me.

Tue 25 Feb 2020 12:44 PM by atomico

we don't need other 100-200 stealthers.

Tue 25 Feb 2020 1:02 PM by Razur Ur

atomico wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 12:44 PM
we don't need other 100-200 stealthers.

Lets do all a steahlter Day on this server and every guy can only login a Steahlter for more Fun :-D.

Wed 26 Feb 2020 1:32 PM by Chaskha

Just implement stealth to be a spying feature. You have to stand still or it breaks. Can't stealth if an ennemy player within 500 radius. No stealth detection.
Put all stealth required styles on a cooldown instead, a short one like 8s so the stealthers remain dps beasts.
Just give stealths a command to transfer their RPs to a visible class at anytime and if they want to be spy for their realm or join groups as dps, awesome.
I've played a stealth, it's lot of fun but it has no place in DAoC as is.

Oh and of course, my main argument for all this is that it will attract AT LEAST 300 players back, honest !