Animist shroom in keep siege - Phoenix Freeshard

While I don't agree on regulating shroom range to 300 in keep, I these days see too many shroom problems in keep siege.

3 screenshots below are taken by each realm, as a alb/hib/mid and those were all taken at inner oil lvl in keep.

I took this screenshot when playing alb and defending a keep against hibs.
Shrooms were cast on the wall of the oil lvl of the keep.

This is the screenshot i took when playing hib and attacking a keep against albs.
Similarly, shrooms were cast on the wall of the oil lvl of the keep.

This is the screenshot I took when playing mid and defending a keep against hibs.
This time, shrooms were even cast inside the oil lvl of the keep.
(which means shrooms start casting as soon as you use the postern door from the lord room)

I don't pretty much think shrooms should be able to cast on the oil lvl.
Using the oil lvl balcony is one of the tactics defenders can do, and with all these shrooms, you are literally blocked to use this spots.

What do you guys think about this matter?

Sat 22 Feb 2020 9:27 AM by daytonchambers

GTaoE creates the same no-go zones in a defense with zero counter.

Many have expressed how this makes defensive positions pointless, yet nothing has been done.

If out-of-LOS aoe attacks carpet bombing a defensive point is fine, then so is this.

Sat 22 Feb 2020 12:45 PM by Freedomcall

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 9:27 AM
GTaoE creates the same no-go zones in a defense with zero counter.

Many have expressed how this makes defensive positions pointless, yet nothing has been done.

If out-of-LOS aoe attacks carpet bombing a defensive point is fine, then so is this.

GTAE is GTAE.
At least every realm has a class that has gtae.
This is just an another issue.

Sat 22 Feb 2020 2:56 PM by Shamissa

This shrooms casting in the balcony/oil lvl is crap....and GTAE wont do any dmg close or interrupt then to keep casting more shrooms.
If this is working as intended then the game is totally broke worse than daoc live.

Sat 22 Feb 2020 4:00 PM by Lollie

Pretty sure the devs said they'd monitor if any silly stuff was happening with the increased range again, if this keeps happening I can see them reverting back to 300 range and the animist will only have themselves to blame.

Sat 22 Feb 2020 5:24 PM by thirian24

I think this is rather funny.

I don't play an animist, so I don't really care. But every other type of players pets can go through doors, into the keep and hit/interrupt and kill other players.

Minstrel pets
BD pets
SM pets
Theurg pet
Hunter pets
And so on

All of this is also bullshit. Pets should not be able to go through doors regardless if was ever a thing or not. While that's all fine and dandy, everyone wants to bitch about animist 24/7. They are the class that's been hit the hardest as far as nerfs on this server go. Almost ever patch.

Meanwhile there GTAOE that hits every damn floor, which is wild to me. If they can set a GT on the roof.. fine, it should hit what's on the roof. Not all the floors below it.

When I see people complain about gtaoe they say it works as intended and learn to play around it.

Well, leave the animists alone. Learn to play around it.

Sat 22 Feb 2020 11:02 PM by easytoremember

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 5:24 PM
I think this is rather funny.

I don't play an animist, so I don't really care. But every other type of players pets can go through doors, into the keep and hit/interrupt and kill other players.

Minstrel pets
BD pets
SM pets
Theurg pet
Hunter pets
And so on

All of this is also bullshit. Pets should not be able to go through doors regardless if was ever a thing or not. While that's all fine and dandy, everyone wants to bitch about animist 24/7. They are the class that's been hit the hardest as far as nerfs on this server go. Almost ever patch.

Meanwhile there GTAOE that hits every damn floor, which is wild to me. If they can set a GT on the roof.. fine, it should hit what's on the roof. Not all the floors below it.

When I see people complain about gtaoe they say it works as intended and learn to play around it.

Well, leave the animists alone. Learn to play around it.

Enter lord room
Right-click postern to enter oil balcony
See shroompile in the corner
Right-click postern to leave oil balcony
Die

Enter lord room
Run to roof
See shroompile on edge between platforms
Leave roof
Die

Walk on a bridge
Die
Notice a shroompile hidden on corner of the stairs

Sat 22 Feb 2020 11:30 PM by Wolfir666

easytoremember wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 11:02 PM
Enter lord room
Right-click postern to enter oil balcony
See shroompile in the corner
Right-click postern to leave oil balcony
Die

Enter lord room
Run to roof
See shroompile on edge between platforms
Leave roof
Die

Walk on a bridge
Die
Notice a shroompile hidden on corner of the stairs

This.

Its just silly to see shrooms on oil-level and on a roof while hibs are *attacking* the keep.
But that's something i already was mentioning myself in discord right after it was changed, as Mid by then lost the first keeps with shrooms being placed on various centerkeep-roofs from the adjacent keep-towers.
By then it was said by an animist, that this wasnt a problem, as you of course would be able to prevent animists from casting these shrooms if you just rupt them enough.. tried it the next keep, ofc doesnt work, as there come half a dozen other caster hibs with the animist casting you down when you try to rupt the shroom-placing animist.

Yeah.. so, congratz to that change, was by the way the same patch when the SM-pet-intercept was changed.

Sat 22 Feb 2020 11:50 PM by daytonchambers

Wolfir666 wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 11:30 PM
Its just silly to see shrooms on oil-level and on a roof while hibs are *attacking* the keep.
But that's something i already was mentioning myself in discord right after it was changed, as Mid by then lost the first keeps with shrooms being placed on various centerkeep-roofs from the adjacent keep-towers.
By then it was said by an animist, that this wasnt a problem, as you of course would be able to prevent animists from casting these shrooms if you just rupt them enough.. tried it the next keep, ofc doesnt work, as there come half a dozen other caster hibs with the animist casting you down when you try to rupt the shroom-placing animist.

Yeah.. so, congratz to that change, was by the way the same patch when the SM-pet-intercept was changed.

hearts have a 5s cast time, plus a few if you get interrupted. GTaoE has a 6s recast. Spam gtae on the ani and they can never place the shrooms. I find it amusing that all the people that abused the piss out of ground target AOE are now bitching since Hib can play that game too with the shrooms.

Yeah, yeah I know. All realms have gtae, bla bla bla.

The simple fact is that thanks to darkcarver being the dominant RM spec cause debuff nook nook and Earth wizards being super buffed on Phoenix, Albion and Midgard have WAY more casters running around with the gtae ability compared to Hibernia since Void on it's own sucks for anything other than Darkspire and pairs horribly with the other two lines making it a relatively rare thing out in rvr. You know it, I know it.

Sun 23 Feb 2020 11:15 AM by Toss

Necros who have their pet inside keep and running out to target key targets for their Gtaoe nukers then?
If the bullshit needs to stop, it needs to stop on ALL levels. Not just Hib...

I see Necro abuse daily. And the Gtaoe is total bullcrap even if all realms can do it. I've seen many Wizards assisting Necros putting GT's for them to basicly wreck havoc. Sounds like fair play? Or just as intended?

If any change needs to be done to Animists its FREE cast anywhere u like, but max shrooms to a few per player. Like 6? 8? 10? Thats how they solved it on live and it worked good

They are also easily countered, Aoe mez? or just Gtaoe nuke them down... they cost 65pow each wich is basicly Double to any other nuke

Sun 23 Feb 2020 1:41 PM by Forlornhope

Toss wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Feb 2020 11:15 AM
Necros who have their pet inside keep and running out to target key targets for their Gtaoe nukers then?
If the bullshit needs to stop, it needs to stop on ALL levels. Not just Hib...

I see Necro abuse daily. And the Gtaoe is total bullcrap even if all realms can do it. I've seen many Wizards assisting Necros putting GT's for them to basicly wreck havoc. Sounds like fair play? Or just as intended?

If any change needs to be done to Animists its FREE cast anywhere u like, but max shrooms to a few per player. Like 6? 8? 10? Thats how they solved it on live and it worked good

They are also easily countered, Aoe mez? or just Gtaoe nuke them down... they cost 65pow each wich is basicly Double to any other nuke

Doesn't confuse insta kill them or is that amnesia?

Sun 23 Feb 2020 4:30 PM by Toss

Not sure if Confuse kills animist pets. Problem is Confuse is single target and often many shrooms interrupting you. And its much faster just AOE nuking than confusing 10 turrets

Sun 23 Feb 2020 7:13 PM by Svekt

As long as its not resisted, only lower levels of confuse usually get resisted, Confusion spell will kill the following:

Animist Hearts and Tanglers
Theurgist pets.

Amnesia is for something completely different, amnesia just clears the intended target of a casters spell. It does not even rupt unless it is resisted and the target of the spell is not in MOC.

Sun 23 Feb 2020 7:19 PM by Svekt

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 11:50 PM
Wolfir666 wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 11:30 PM
Its just silly to see shrooms on oil-level and on a roof while hibs are *attacking* the keep.
But that's something i already was mentioning myself in discord right after it was changed, as Mid by then lost the first keeps with shrooms being placed on various centerkeep-roofs from the adjacent keep-towers.
By then it was said by an animist, that this wasnt a problem, as you of course would be able to prevent animists from casting these shrooms if you just rupt them enough.. tried it the next keep, ofc doesnt work, as there come half a dozen other caster hibs with the animist casting you down when you try to rupt the shroom-placing animist.

Yeah.. so, congratz to that change, was by the way the same patch when the SM-pet-intercept was changed.

hearts have a 5s cast time, plus a few if you get interrupted. GTaoE has a 6s recast. Spam gtae on the ani and they can never place the shrooms. I find it amusing that all the people that abused the piss out of ground target AOE are now bitching since Hib can play that game too with the shrooms.

Yeah, yeah I know. All realms have gtae, bla bla bla.

The simple fact is that thanks to darkcarver being the dominant RM spec cause debuff nook nook and Earth wizards being super buffed on Phoenix, Albion and Midgard have WAY more casters running around with the gtae ability compared to Hibernia since Void on it's own sucks for anything other than Darkspire and pairs horribly with the other two lines making it a relatively rare thing out in rvr. You know it, I know it.

This individual took the time to look at the larger picture and it shows in their response. There is a reason hibs use animist more than they use void eld. As someone who has lead BGs in all three realms, the amount of GTAOE available in ALB and MID heavily outweighs what is readily available in HIB. Yes, all three realms have access to GTAOE. However, alb and mids access it much easier as it falls naturally into the common spec for these classes. With bolts being blocked etc etc there is no real reason to run a Void Eld except for darkspire. People are not going to rush out to change their spec just to gtaoe when they run with the zerg.

Midagrd - Svekt PacHealer
Hibernia - Arcticpika Bard
Albion - Etherbunni Sorc

Sun 23 Feb 2020 8:17 PM by maxmad

There was a reason why shrooms got nerfed in OF.

Now they are back and they still cast through walls, doors and basically everything else without any line of sight check.
You get bombed through keep and tower doors by warheralds placed inside the door which are "not visible" from the outside. There is a shroomstacks behind every tower or oilhouse door... and they nuke through it no matter what. Shrooms placed on the ramparts hit people on the climb spots or supporters close to the wall.
In Bledmeer you get hit in the towers by shrooms through the stairs in the stairwell no matter what level you are.

GTAE spells are annoying but they hit you for 100 dmg every 6 seconds and you can move out of them. Shrooms do a lot more and often times you can not fight back since they do not adhere to the LoS mechanics.

Mon 24 Feb 2020 7:46 AM by Sepplord

Svekt wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Feb 2020 7:19 PM
People are not going to rush out to change their spec just to gtaoe when they run with the zerg.

Are you saying midgard has a huge Runemaster advantage, because all the fotm midgard-castergroup-Runemasters don't have to swith specc when joining the zerg?

Aren't most zergers zerging the majority of their time? And have chars made for zerging?

Mon 24 Feb 2020 8:12 AM by Tritri

It's ridiculous to compare gtaoe and animist pet (even if they use the same ground target mechanics)

The POINT of gtaoe damage IS to be castable Inside keeps / structures where you don't have line of sight

It doesn't serve anything else

Animists pets have nothing to do Inside a keep, it's not what they were meant to be. But I do agree that animist got insanely nerfed for no reason, especially being already a rather weak and underrepresented class in rvr. The tangler nerf is just pure nonesense.

And yeah, pets shouldn't be able to go Inside keeps, period. But it doesn't seem to be an easy fix. Though it's not so much an issue since pets are quite weak… it's just an issue with theurg spam / minstrel red pets / necros (?? Now that I think of it, I never saw a necro pet Inside a keep ?? I don't know if it's possible ?? But I guess it should work, right ??)

Tue 25 Feb 2020 7:24 PM by Horus

Toss wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Feb 2020 11:15 AM
Necros who have their pet inside keep and running out to target key targets for their Gtaoe nukers then?
If the bullshit needs to stop, it needs to stop on ALL levels. Not just Hib...

I see Necro abuse daily. And the Gtaoe is total bullcrap even if all realms can do it. I've seen many Wizards assisting Necros putting GT's for them to basicly wreck havoc. Sounds like fair play? Or just as intended?

If any change needs to be done to Animists its FREE cast anywhere u like, but max shrooms to a few per player. Like 6? 8? 10? Thats how they solved it on live and it worked good

They are also easily countered, Aoe mez? or just Gtaoe nuke them down... they cost 65pow each wich is basicly Double to any other nuke

At least you can run away from a shroom stack. Try running away from a bone army that has magically gone through the door and is attacking you.
I've been attacked by abominations moving through closed keep and tower doors as well. How about a cabbie pet getting healed from the outside and casting on you without LOS. Did you know a BD archer pet ignores walls and LoS too once you are targeted? No place to escape, no way to attack back as they are far outside the inner keep.. Good luck surviving that.

Is it cheesy to be able to get a shroom stack into a place where a player character himself can't get? Yes! Is it cheesy that all pets ignore doors, can attack without LOS and be healed without LOS through closed doors? Yes! Fix it all.

Tue 25 Feb 2020 9:46 PM by Freedomcall

Horus wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 7:24 PM
Toss wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Feb 2020 11:15 AM
Necros who have their pet inside keep and running out to target key targets for their Gtaoe nukers then?
If the bullshit needs to stop, it needs to stop on ALL levels. Not just Hib...

I see Necro abuse daily. And the Gtaoe is total bullcrap even if all realms can do it. I've seen many Wizards assisting Necros putting GT's for them to basicly wreck havoc. Sounds like fair play? Or just as intended?

If any change needs to be done to Animists its FREE cast anywhere u like, but max shrooms to a few per player. Like 6? 8? 10? Thats how they solved it on live and it worked good

They are also easily countered, Aoe mez? or just Gtaoe nuke them down... they cost 65pow each wich is basicly Double to any other nuke

At least you can run away from a shroom stack. Try running away from a bone army that has magically gone through the door and is attacking you.
I've been attacked by abominations moving through closed keep and tower doors as well. How about a cabbie pet getting healed from the outside and casting on you without LOS. Did you know a BD archer pet ignores walls and LoS too once you are targeted? No place to escape, no way to attack back as they are far outside the inner keep.. Good luck surviving that.

Is it cheesy to be able to get a shroom stack into a place where a player character himself can't get? Yes! Is it cheesy that all pets ignore doors, can attack without LOS and be healed without LOS through closed doors? Yes! Fix it all.

Some players keep forgetting that hibs can do just the same with pets.
Maybe it's because they have played only hib and never had problem with hib pets

Wed 26 Feb 2020 9:33 AM by Wolfir666

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 9:46 PM
Some players keep forgetting that hibs can do just the same with pets.
Maybe it's because they have played only hib and never had problem with hib pets

So true, its actually the same as comparing it to GTAE, as that also comes with every realm. And we all know, how annoying Hib-Enchanter-Pets are.

Thu 27 Feb 2020 9:51 PM by Expfighter

Wolfir666 wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Feb 2020 9:33 AM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Feb 2020 9:46 PM
Some players keep forgetting that hibs can do just the same with pets.
Maybe it's because they have played only hib and never had problem with hib pets

So true, its actually the same as comparing it to GTAE, as that also comes with every realm. And we all know, how annoying Hib-Enchanter-Pets are.

you mean the ones that follow you thru out the keep and keep casting until you die?