Past time to "fix" minstrel charm pet

Its been far to long that Mins has been the ONLY class that can charm higher based on spec level, please fix this obvious bug or make adjustments.
The fact that mins get full rp and solo kill credit when using a red or purple con pet is totally ludicrous. I suggest any charmed pet over yellow con to 50 will remove solo kill credit and for each con level over yellow cuts RP per kill in half.

Mon 20 Jan 2020 12:46 AM by daytonchambers

There is already a long thread about this directly under your shiny new post.

Yes, mincers are disturbingly powerful here thanks in part to a red con+ pet that even low RR characters can manage easily.

No, I do not expect it to be changed. Minstrels are but one of the several classes on this server that are abnormally powerful and who soloers like myself avoid at all costs since its nothing but a free trip to the relic town.

It sucks, but it is what it is.

Mon 20 Jan 2020 4:43 AM by teiloh

Hawkaye wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Jan 2020 12:36 AM
Its been far to long that Mins has been the ONLY class that can charm higher based on spec level, please fix this obvious bug or make adjustments.
The fact that mins get full rp and solo kill credit when using a red or purple con pet is totally ludicrous. I suggest any charmed pet over yellow con to 50 will remove solo kill credit and for each con level over yellow cuts RP per kill in half.

Oh so Ments can't have Orange pets?

Go ahead and "Nerf" minstrels by giving them BD or SM pets.

Mon 20 Jan 2020 6:41 AM by easytoremember

being unable to string around a greater telamon is already a nerf

Mon 20 Jan 2020 7:21 AM by Razur Ur

The Phönix Staff needed more observation by minstrels with charm red pet. i guess the most of minstrels use third party tool with macro loop ;-/ for better holding the pet.

Mon 20 Jan 2020 3:51 PM by Azrael

wow a thread about minstrel and their pets. nice

Mon 20 Jan 2020 5:32 PM by Forlornhope

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Mon 20 Jan 2020 7:21 AM
The Phönix Staff needed more observation by minstrels with charm red pet. i guess the most of minstrels use third party tool with macro loop ;-/ for better holding the pet.

They do use third party, but it's generally not on a loop. They bind charm/pet target/speed song all into one button using ahk. Which does take almost all the skill needed to play the class out of it.

Tue 21 Jan 2020 7:54 AM by Sepplord

regarding that...i was under the impression that shouldn't work in the allowed ruleset, since such a macro would require (for example) speed to always being applied last, or am i wrong there?

If speed always must be applied last the macro only works with delays (or tool-inherent delays)

So, what is the work-around minstrels are using? Because that was always the problem i ran into when trying to create macros that fire multiple things with one keypress. For example i never figured out how to make a macro without delay for skalds to activate all chants and speed last, so speed is the one active in the end.

But minstrels seem to have that figured out, so help me out. How can i do it?

Tue 21 Jan 2020 8:04 AM by Forlornhope

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 7:54 AM
regarding that...i was under the impression that shouldn't work in the allowed ruleset, since such a macro would require (for example) speed to always being applied last, or am i wrong there?

If speed always must be applied last the macro only works with delays (or tool-inherent delays)

So, what is the work-around minstrels are using? Because that was always the problem i ran into when trying to create macros that fire multiple things with one keypress. For example i never figured out how to make a macro without delay for skalds to activate all chants and speed last, so speed is the one active in the end.

But minstrels seem to have that figured out, so help me out. How can i do it?

Tbh not exactly sure their order or how they work it out, maybe something like target pet>charm>speed. Since the first two are insta they get applied first automatically while speed going last has a cast time. Which cancels the prior charm. If they keep hitting it it should be an endless cycle and allowed by the rules?

Tue 21 Jan 2020 8:05 AM by Razur Ur

Yesterday i saw minstrel with level 57 purple pet rly nice mechanics :-D

Tue 21 Jan 2020 10:25 AM by Insanity84

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 7:54 AM
regarding that...i was under the impression that shouldn't work in the allowed ruleset, since such a macro would require (for example) speed to always being applied last, or am i wrong there?

Im using autohotkey myself so i can tell you that there is a default 10ms delay between multiple send key events. That is enough to sometimes get into trouble with a wrong keypress order, caused by network latency, but in 95% it works.

Tue 21 Jan 2020 12:05 PM by Lerox

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 8:05 AM
Yesterday i saw minstrel with level 57 purple pet rly nice mechanics :-D

Cool story bro. A level 60 mob is red still so please tell me how a level 57 pet turn purple?
But turning red mobs into purple ones seems to be a really nice mechanic.

Tue 21 Jan 2020 12:09 PM by Razur Ur

Lerox wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 12:05 PM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 8:05 AM
Yesterday i saw minstrel with level 57 purple pet rly nice mechanics :-D

Cool story bro. A level 60 mob is red still so please tell me how a level 57 pet turn purple?
But turning red mobs into purple ones seems to be a really nice mechanic.

i can only saying that we fighted yesterday vs a alb group with minstrel which charmed a purple mob. I dont know which max lvl a red mob have. But if you meaning
that purple mob start with lvl. 61 then i have right with nice mechanics ;-) but thx for advice the mob levels.

Tue 21 Jan 2020 4:48 PM by Sepplord

Insanity84 wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 10:25 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 7:54 AM
regarding that...i was under the impression that shouldn't work in the allowed ruleset, since such a macro would require (for example) speed to always being applied last, or am i wrong there?
Im using autohotkey myself so i can tell you that there is a default 10ms delay between multiple send key events. That is enough to sometimes get into trouble with a wrong keypress order, caused by network latency, but in 95% it works.

Yeah, and afaik the rule is: if your macro only works with delays, then it is not allowed. So regardless of AHK being allowed and having a built-in delay (everything in computing has a delay...there is no such thing as doing multiple things at once, even if it feels like that because us humans are slow), the important thing is that your macro doesn't REQUIRE a delay to logically function.

So, if there are minstrels only pressing a SINGLE key, and having speed at the end. Imo they are committing a banable offense.
If they have one button that targets pet and charms, and the press that a few times. And another for speed. That would be fine.
Sadly in all the threads about macroing and AHK official answers were always very vague.

Wed 22 Jan 2020 10:10 AM by Insanity84

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 4:48 PM
Yeah, and afaik the rule is: if your macro only works with delays, then it is not allowed. So regardless of AHK being allowed and having a built-in delay (everything in computing has a delay...there is no such thing as doing multiple things at once, even if it feels like that because us humans are slow), the important thing is that your macro doesn't REQUIRE a delay to logically function.

That is an excellent question you brought up here. Where do you draw the line?
A simple "shield swap to shield slam" macro would not work without a defined sequence on a single keypress, you have to press the key twice for it to work, making it obsolete. Im sure devs dont want macros like "cast spell, wait 1,5 seconds, cast spell, wait 1,5 seconds, cast spell".

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 4:48 PM
So, if there are minstrels only pressing a SINGLE key, and having speed at the end. Imo they are committing a banable offense.
If they have one button that targets pet and charms, and the press that a few times. And another for speed. That would be fine.
Sadly in all the threads about macroing and AHK official answers were always very vague.

I know that other games make rules like one action per key press which is enough to solve such issues but allowing key remaping through 3rd party tools.
But here there is no rule like that.
So technically you can target your pet and charm it while you hold down your key and if you release the key, you cast speed song.
No need for a loop, condition or anything that's not allowed regarding the phoenix rules.
A bit speculation on my side here, i don't play minstrel but i guess that a charmed pet has a pet frame where you can drag&drop a target-pet macro from. (e: thanks gotwqqd)
And i don't use such on-key-release events myself, just to be safe.

Wed 22 Jan 2020 10:29 AM by gotwqqd

Insanity84 wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jan 2020 10:10 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 4:48 PM
Yeah, and afaik the rule is: if your macro only works with delays, then it is not allowed. So regardless of AHK being allowed and having a built-in delay (everything in computing has a delay...there is no such thing as doing multiple things at once, even if it feels like that because us humans are slow), the important thing is that your macro doesn't REQUIRE a delay to logically function.
That is an excellent question you brought up here. Where do you draw the line?
A simple "shield swap to shield slam" macro would not work without a defined sequence on a single keypress, you have to press the key twice for it to work, making it obsolete. Im sure devs dont want macros like "cast spell, wait 1,5 seconds, cast spell, wait 1,5 seconds, cast spell".

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 4:48 PM
So, if there are minstrels only pressing a SINGLE key, and having speed at the end. Imo they are committing a banable offense.
If they have one button that targets pet and charms, and the press that a few times. And another for speed. That would be fine.
Sadly in all the threads about macroing and AHK official answers were always very vague.
I know that other games make rules like one action per key press which is enough to solve such issues but allowing key remaping through 3rd party tools.
But here there is no rule like that.
So technically you can target your pet and charm it while you hold down your key and if you release the key, you cast speed song.
No need for a loop, condition or anything that's not allowed regarding the phoenix rules.
A bit speculation on my side here, i don't play minstrel but i guess that a charmed pet has a pet frame where you can drag&drop a target-pet macro from.
And i don't use such on-key-release events myself, just to be safe.

Yes
Your shift click pet name and drop on hot bar

Wed 22 Jan 2020 8:37 PM by sylvynyr

Well, there's always this:

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=65604#p65604

You can hold down charm button WHILST playing your song. BTW.
Song will still activate once it completes playing and then fade for the 11 seconds or so. (11 seconds with 100% instrument)

So:
(With pet selected its as simple as)
Press Speed, Hold Charm Button Down > Loop.

My AHK Script Does the following:
When Q is pressed down:: Equip Harp, Select Pet, Play Song. (this just runs once, when q is pressed)
Whilst Q is being held down:: Spams Charm

So I basically just press and hold Q once for 4 seconds every 8 seconds.

Thu 23 Jan 2020 11:13 PM by teiloh

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jan 2020 4:48 PM
So, if there are minstrels only pressing a SINGLE key, and having speed at the end.

You do realize that you can stagger pressing speed and charm by up to 10 seconds, right?

Thu 30 Jan 2020 10:10 PM by Ownnyn

Not sure if this helps. But with razor, you dont just send a keystroke, you send press and release key stroke. So the server always receives them in order, not all at once.

So your macro would be, press 1, release 1, press 2, release 2, etcs