Fairfight etiquette between smallmens...what are your interpretations/opinions?

The /fairfight toggle command isn't very populated, but there are a few groups listed here and there when me and my friends play (mostly EU prime+late night fridays, sometimes saturday too)

The command shows ±1 groupmember groups around your own groupsize, which for us is perfectly fine. When we run (mostly 4 or 5man) we would love fighting another 6man. They have an advantage but it would still result in a nice fight with fun for both sides. Definitely more fun than being run over by zergs or farming solo-taskgoers.

But last week we had a bit of a discussion when we were running as 3 and there was only a duo listed. I kind of didn't want to fight them, because i wasn't sure how they would see it. My friend argued that they will probably love to fight our threeman, since the alternative isn't fighting a duo, but probably a bigger group. And if they list themselves, then they aren't looking to just gank solos. Ofcourse a duo would be preferable but we jsut were not a duo. In the end we agreed to let them attack if we find them, but we didn't find them...

Another situation was against a same size group, we saw them near bledmeer bridge, kiting away a long line of soloers, which is why we didn't attack. We ran/swam beside them for quite a while until far away, but weren't really sure what the etiquette for attacking would be? They made a turn towards us (in hindsight because zoneborder was in front of us in the water) and we started fighting them. Was a nice fight, we won in the end. Not sure if they felt unfairly treated, or if they enjoyed all aspects. (i am sure they still enjoyed the fight itself because it had a few intense moments on both sides)

I am not trying to create a ruleset or anything like that with this post. That's pretentious and wouldn't work anyways. It is just intresting to me how other interpret situations/use of fairfight command and work is slow

Fri 17 Jan 2020 11:36 AM by Insanity84

IMHO
There is no need for an unwritten ruleset.
The fairfight toggle lists your group against group sizes ±1 of your own group.
So it is inherent to the usage of that toggle that you agree on fighting groups ±1 your own groups size.
Implementing some etiquette to make a fairfight even more fair is not needed, the mechanic behind the list dictates the rules.
Just keep it simple.

Fri 17 Jan 2020 11:52 AM by Sepplord

yeah, definitely. I agree
I don't want to create some ruleset. I was just wondering how others see it, in regards to the scenarios i discribed or maybe also their own scenarios.

No agenda behind it, just looking for a general chat about the topic (and as a sideeffect maybe raising awareness about the command)

Fri 17 Jan 2020 1:30 PM by Insanity84

I apologize, i did not read your last sentence carefully enough. It's friday, im burnt out.

But weekend soon, yay.

Your first situation is hard to foresee if it would be fun for both sides, but i have the same opinion your friend has.
If the duo can't lose 3 vs 2 they should not toggle fairfight on, so im more inclined to assume that they have a good mentality.

Your second situation is an example of a good fight, i can't know if it was fair.
You did not add and you made clear what you are for, if they did not want to fight you they could have taken another way, else it was just a bad decision moving to the zoneborder.
Your group gave the others more or less the chance to decide what they want to do and they engaged.

Generally speaking, i would assume everyone having fun most of the time, else they would not play this game any more.
You are not responsible for other players fun, making decisions based of assumtions if X or Y is fun, fair or whatever, how others see your actions doing X or Y.
Don't overthink stuff like that, just enjoy the game doing stuff that you find fun and follow the rules.
Even bad behavior can be fun, mostly not for both, but if it's within the rules, it's fine.
I don't gank lowies or camping PoC entrance, just to clarify that. Im more on the suffering site, but thats fine, just tolerate other playstyles.

Fri 17 Jan 2020 2:15 PM by shintacki

If you ever see the names shinie and azuel as a duo on the fairfight list and you're in a 3 man please please please come fight us. We would gladly fight 4mans if they were shown to us on the list too. Smallman action is so few and far between that any fight we get that isnt an 8man rolling us is a welcome change of pace. We have had a third player with us pretty often lately but we hardly ever see anyone in the list when we play, which is NA time on Friday nights. Last week as a trio we did have 2 fights against a hib 4man that were on the list and those were by far the most fun fights of the night, we lost the first one and won the second.

The command is "fairfight" so as long as you don't inc another group on the list when they are already engaged then you're free to do whatever. Although I guarantee there's not going to be a punishment if you do jam a listed smallman while they're fighting someone else, it would just be considered bad etiquette I guess. Credit to the hib group I mentioned earlier, they hit us once when we were already fighting a bunch of coast guarding mids and when they realized that they pulled off. I don't expect that kind of behavior ever but I do tend to think it would be lame to use the fairfight command to seek out like sized groups and just smack them whenever you see them fighting someone else.

Fri 17 Jan 2020 4:53 PM by Patron

Yeah, when we saw you fighting yesterday we dont inc you at the river. We are the white red hib cloaks fg. Greetz dude

Thu 30 Jan 2020 5:28 PM by joshisanonymous

To me, the fairfight command is just about making it more likely that you have a better chance of running into similar sized groups or other solos. It's not literally about arranging fights, but instead about having more certainty that you're at least in a zone where a more reasonable fight is possible. Other than that, I'm very much a red is dead person. I usually run solo, but I purposely picked a class that gives me a chance to win against duos and trios, too, because the game is designed to be unpredictable like that, which is why I like it.

I honestly have never understood why people play an open world RvR game when what they really seem to want is an arena game. I welcome anyone to add on my fights, and I will most likely add on yours unless it's blatantly obvious that you've gone to lengths to avoid adds (e.g., don't arrange fights at docks and then freak out when you get adds).

Thu 30 Jan 2020 7:29 PM by bigne88

Dont worry m8.
The duo was able to see your region position and if they wanted to dodge they had the chance. The same goes for looking for your trio.

That said, a duo can manage no problems a trio and even a 4 men.

Thu 30 Jan 2020 11:26 PM by Azuell

Are there actually people using the fairfight command during EU prime? We're lucky to see 1 group on the list on Friday nights NA time.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 2:56 PM by Ardri

Worthless command because no one uses it. No incentive.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 4:02 PM by shintacki

Well the incentive should be fun competitive fights. But that's not enough for most people I guess cause no one is ever on the list when I check.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 4:15 PM by Azuell

Ardri wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 2:56 PM
Worthless command because no one uses it. No incentive.

To me, the incentive is increasing the likelihood of finding some good fights. Like someone else said, we don't use it to arrange fights. We use it to hopefully give us a better chance at a good fight by knowing where other small mans are.

I think they should remove the upper limit on seeing group sizes (currently +/- 1). Meaning if you're a duo, you can see groups with 2-5 people but a 4 man can only see groups of 3-5. This way it still prevents larger groups from farming smaller groups but gives you the option as a smaller group to seek out a larger group if you choose.

I doubt it would make much of a difference but it at least potentially increases the number of groups we could see. As a duo we can only see 2-3 since we're at the bottom of the chain but we would welcome fights against a 4 man and as a trio we would be fine fighting a 5 man.

I'm not saying I wouldn't take an RP incentive, but I don't think it would really increase the number of people who use it. I think it just comes down to the mentality of the player base, most people aren't interested in "fair" fights.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 4:16 PM by Svekt

Red is Dead bottom line.

If you add on 8v8 they complain but they are going to stop and add on your 1v1 or farm you at a keep all day.
If you add on 1v1 they complain but will also add on your fight later.

EVERYTIME I have tried to stop and observe the fight and make it fair or avoid it they kill me anyway, so this has never worked and why I just say F it and kill everything I come across or get killed trying.

This fair nonsense is for the birds. This is war, its not meant to be fair. You were ganked and ganked working your way to 50 so feel free to go do it right back. Perf the lowbies in DF and add the 8v8s occurring right outside your portal keep.

The minute you take this game and make it something else that you want it to be, well then it just isnt daoc anymore. This is not set arena matches etc etc. The purpose of these lists are for people to see them and find other like-minded people. You then have to use the list properly. IE dont fight near crau crim bolg when ALL the action is there and have the gall to demand nobody add your fight, instead take your advertised group and go stand in a dead zone and wait for another listed group to fight you so you can be add free.

If nobody is using the /fairfight list, then it probably tells you a lot about the people still playing this game:
They don't want this crap ruining the game anymore than it already has. Pre organized fights are why a lot of decent players left live to begin with as well as other free-shards.

You automatically lose appeal when you know exactly where to go and what to expect, sorry that's not war like at all. Just find another game that actually suits your needs.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 4:44 PM by shintacki

Svekt wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 4:16 PM
This is war

Actually its a video game. Maybe the least warlike activity you could partake in. And if you bothered to read anything anyone has said on this thread then youd see we arent asking for prearranged fights. We just want a decent shot at getting a somewhat fair fight. I play this game for fun fights against similar or greater numbers, thats what I enjoy the most. I also only have 2 friends that play this game with any regularity. So yeah it would be nice to have a tool that made the most fun aspect of this game more likely to happen. Also no one was complaining about adds so not sure where you were coming from with all that. If people want to prearrange fights they can and do use discord to do that, but most groups out there would much rather have an organic fight form rather than set one up.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 11:02 PM by gotwqqd

shintacki wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 4:44 PM
Svekt wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 4:16 PM
This is war

Actually its a video game. Maybe the least warlike activity you could partake in. And if you bothered to read anything anyone has said on this thread then youd see we arent asking for prearranged fights. We just want a decent shot at getting a somewhat fair fight. I play this game for fun fights against similar or greater numbers, thats what I enjoy the most. I also only have 2 friends that play this game with any regularity. So yeah it would be nice to have a tool that made the most fun aspect of this game more likely to happen. Also no one was complaining about adds so not sure where you were coming from with all that. If people want to prearrange fights they can and do use discord to do that, but most groups out there would much rather have an organic fight form rather than set one up.

Fantastic argument ....<clap> bravo...

Do you understand the terms literal and figurative?
And in this case a mixture of the two for the same comment.

Fri 31 Jan 2020 11:23 PM by shintacki

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 11:02 PM
shintacki wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 4:44 PM
Svekt wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 4:16 PM
This is war

Actually its a video game. Maybe the least warlike activity you could partake in. And if you bothered to read anything anyone has said on this thread then youd see we arent asking for prearranged fights. We just want a decent shot at getting a somewhat fair fight. I play this game for fun fights against similar or greater numbers, thats what I enjoy the most. I also only have 2 friends that play this game with any regularity. So yeah it would be nice to have a tool that made the most fun aspect of this game more likely to happen. Also no one was complaining about adds so not sure where you were coming from with all that. If people want to prearrange fights they can and do use discord to do that, but most groups out there would much rather have an organic fight form rather than set one up.
Fantastic argument ....<clap> bravo...

Do you understand the terms literal and figurative?
And in this case a mixture of the two for the same comment.

The war comment was mostly just a joke. The rest of my argument stands

Thu 5 Mar 2020 6:02 PM by VandenPlause

I'm no where near lvl 50, does this list names and general location/zone of other players? I didn't know this existed, so it did raise awareness, so thanks for that!

Thu 5 Mar 2020 6:26 PM by stewbeedoo

shintacki wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 11:23 PM
The war comment was mostly just a joke. The rest of my argument stands

I would not really classify your comments as an argument - you prefer the "red is dead" playstyle. Which is your right.

Others choose to embrace different playstyles (solo, 8v8, zerg) and there is nothing wrong with this either.

There is no need for all to have the same playstyle, nor to denigrate the playstyles they do not prefer.

Thu 5 Mar 2020 7:05 PM by Azuell

stewbeedoo wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Mar 2020 6:26 PM
shintacki wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 11:23 PM
The war comment was mostly just a joke. The rest of my argument stands

I would not really classify your comments as an argument - you prefer the "red is dead" playstyle. Which is your right.

Others choose to embrace different playstyles (solo, 8v8, zerg) and there is nothing wrong with this either.

There is no need for all to have the same playstyle, nor to denigrate the playstyles they do not prefer.

I think you quoted the wrong person or got mixed up somewhere. He doesn't prefer the red is read play style and didn't insinuate that in his post prior to the one you quoted.

That being said, we need more people using /fairfight. We see too many small mans running around not on the list so everyone needs to educate these people on the command or let them know they need to stop being a bunch of pussies and get on the list.

Last Friday we actually did get a few good 3v3s with a hib small man on the list at mid small man zone. And one against a mid 3 man. Most people we've seen on the list in a while.

Also, did they get rid of the rp bonus for fighting in small man zones? We rarely actually have fights there but none of the fights gave a bonus.

Thu 5 Mar 2020 7:39 PM by stewbeedoo

Azuell wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Mar 2020 7:05 PM
stewbeedoo wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Mar 2020 6:26 PM
shintacki wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jan 2020 11:23 PM
The war comment was mostly just a joke. The rest of my argument stands

I would not really classify your comments as an argument - you prefer the "red is dead" playstyle. Which is your right.

Others choose to embrace different playstyles (solo, 8v8, zerg) and there is nothing wrong with this either.

There is no need for all to have the same playstyle, nor to denigrate the playstyles they do not prefer.

I think you quoted the wrong person or got mixed up somewhere. He doesn't prefer the red is read play style and didn't insinuate that in his post prior to the one you quoted.

That being said, we need more people using /fairfight. We see too many small mans running around not on the list so everyone needs to educate these people on the command or let them know they need to stop being a bunch of pussies and get on the list.

Last Friday we actually did get a few good 3v3s with a hib small man on the list at mid small man zone. And one against a mid 3 man. Most people we've seen on the list in a while.

Also, did they get rid of the rp bonus for fighting in small man zones? We rarely actually have fights there but none of the fights gave a bonus.

Ah yes I quoted the wrong person - apologies Shintacki. I meant to quote Svekt.

Thu 5 Mar 2020 9:40 PM by bluefalcon420

I think most people just go out an fight what they find and try to run from what they can run from. This is prolly similar to how you don't see tons of 8 man's setting up fights. It's just not that kind of game at heart. You're literally forcing it.

Tue 31 Mar 2020 4:50 PM by Skreen32

Insanity84 wrote: ↑
Fri 17 Jan 2020 1:30 PM
Generally speaking, i would assume everyone having fun most of the time, else they would not play this game any more.
You are not responsible for other players fun, making decisions based of assumtions if X or Y is fun, fair or whatever, how others see your actions doing X or Y.
Don't overthink stuff like that, just enjoy the game doing stuff that you find fun and follow the rules.

this applies IRL too.

"fun" is optional