Not understanding the AFK banning discussion

Hi all,

I found this in another (locked) thread:

"Btw, being afk and letting your pet fight for you while you are afk is also not allowed."

So, my question is what happens when you are afk for a short time, and your pet does kill something. For example, you think you are in a safe spot, phone rings, and you come back 10 minutes later and your pet killed something. No macros. No objects on keyboard. Just afk due to some real life issue. What approach do the GMs take here?

There was this really scary System wide message the other night about character deletetion and all plat lost and 14 day ban.

I am not trying to feed any narrative here, just looking for some guidance either from the Moderators or from players who have been there.

Thanks all,
D

Thu 19 Dec 2019 1:50 AM by Azrael

I do not have a opinion on this afk banning in general but I guess, at least I hope, they would watch you for about 10 or 15 minutes before they do any permanent action to see if something happens like you described/checking if its intended or not. Beside that, I am not sure if there are that many spots out where you do not see a difference between spawn and safe spot.

Thu 19 Dec 2019 2:58 AM by gotwqqd

With the new 2min between drops thing I would often put my pet on defend and sit near a mob that would agg me
Pet would kill it
Every other spawn I would get a drop.
I usually did nothing other than drop the occasional campfire for damage agg. I felt no reason to waste potions

This is because it matters not anymore about putting in any effort to kill mobs faster(aside from some low xp and quicker tasks)
Mind you I was sitting at the keyboard and salvaging when needed. Sometimes I would get a snack or bio but it would be nice to know how they view this behavior

I find much of their rule verbage/intent ambiguous

Particularly “unattended gameplay”. Emphasizing the word gameplay.

I would never consider standing or jumping/running in place gameplay

Thu 19 Dec 2019 3:55 AM by Loki

The one person I know of personally that got caught afk farming on a BD in Malmo, got away with a one day timeout. Nothing else.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 6:59 AM by Nachtfee

Since the new EXP loot rule, afk'ler are really annoying. Example spindle, for crabs there are usually 3-4 BD with aggro pet partially anon without guild for hours

Thu 26 Dec 2019 9:43 AM by

Uthred

Afk farming is not allowed. If we test you and you fail the test, you will get punished. We test and monitor players longer than just 1 min, so a short time afk should never get you into troubles.

Those players that were banned for 14 days and got all their toons deleted were macroing and not just afk farming.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 1:54 PM by chryso

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Dec 2019 2:58 AM
the new 2min between drops thing

I am unfamiliar with this. Can someone explain this and/or point me to where this is talked about?

Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:23 PM by shintacki

chryso wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 1:54 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 19 Dec 2019 2:58 AM
the new 2min between drops thing

I am unfamiliar with this. Can someone explain this and/or point me to where this is talked about?

XP items are on a 2min timer now. So no matter how many mobs you can kill in 2 minutes you will only ever get one xp item every 2 minutes.

Sat 28 Dec 2019 2:50 PM by Patron

Pets on passive and out of spawn, done.
Where is the problem?

Wed 8 Jan 2020 9:28 PM by Delegator

Uthred wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 9:43 AM
Afk farming is not allowed. If we test you and you fail the test, you will get punished. We test and monitor players longer than just 1 min, so a short time afk should never get you into troubles.

Those players that were banned for 14 days and got all their toons deleted were macroing and not just afk farming.

I was just warned that I would get a 14-day ban and all my characters deleted because I was AFK for 5 minutes and did not do anything while my toon was being ported around. There were no macros or keep-alives involved.

I asked "How AFK is AFK?" and the response was "This is a warning, not a conversation."

I asked how what I was (letting my pets kill, occasionally renewing buffs, salvaging, selling putting stuff in my vault to clear bag space, and so on) was different from somebody being AFK to get an RVR tick. The response was "if you think somebody is breaking the rules, you can appeal them."

I go back to the fundamental question: What is "AFK Farming?" It is not in the terms and conditions, where there is specific language about macros or other means to support unattended game play. If I am AFK, I time out eventually. How is AFK farming different from somebody being power-leveled and not active? From people being AFK for a keep defense task or RVR participation task? How long is one AFK before the ban hammer gets applied?

This isn't a case of people looking for a loophole. This is a case of being threatened with a serious ban and character deletion for something that is not defined or mentioned in the rules at all. Clarification would be appreciated.

Wed 8 Jan 2020 9:46 PM by

Uthred

Once again.

Being afk and letting your pet kill stuff for you = not allowed.
1st offense = warning
2nd offense = time ban
3rd offense = you are in trouble

Being afk and scripting single or multiple actions (and yes, putting a coin into your keyboard is also a no no) = not allowed
1st offense: Deletion of all characters and 2-weeks ban
2nd offense: permaban of Player

It is no problem to be afk when you are grped. It is also no problem to suicide to a keep and then wait for the task tick and being afk while waiting. Dont mix things up here. This rule is so easy to understand and im not going to repeat myself over and over again.

On a sidenote: there was an appeal about you 15 hours ago, that you were afk farming. 15 hours later the GM checked for you and you were still (or again) at the same spot and not replying to his tells. So he ported you to the jail and warned you. End of discussion.

Just a little hint: If you need to be afk, you can easily do that without having your pet stand inside the mob respawn. Just move some locs away and you can afk all day long without getting into any troubles at all.

Wed 8 Jan 2020 9:59 PM by Delegator

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jan 2020 9:46 PM
On a sidenote: there was an appeal about you 15 hours ago, that you were afk farming. 15 hours later the GM checked for you and you were still (or again) at the same spot and not replying to his tells. So he ported you to the jail and warned you. End of discussion.

This is flat-out false. 15 hours ago was last night at oh, midnight. I was at home. The last place I had been farming at that point was in Malmohus.

This interaction with the GM was when I was at a different location IRL, playing from a different IP address, and my character was in Vanern Swamp. I came back (from the bathroom, if you must know) to find that I was in a different location and being attacked by a MOB. I killed the MOB and then the GM gave me the warning.

I was present at least every 5-10 minutes, sometimes for extended periods, sometimes just to re-apply buffs or manage loot. Activity logs would show that. I was chatting with other people in the area. Chat logs would show that.

I won't argue the policy even though I don't see the rationale for it. I must be present with my pets and respond to a GM within some still-undefined time period or all my characters will be deleted and I will be banned. OK, I get it. But I absolutely refute the above sidenote because it is provably false.

Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:44 AM by gotwqqd

So much with the rules are ambiguous
And the penalties make no sense at all
Aside from permanent ban
The character deletion is the worse
And it comes on first offense(keeping logged in)
While what I believe are other more egregious violations get warnings , minor suspension over repeated violations

Thu 9 Jan 2020 8:05 AM by Sepplord

how is a character deletion worse than a perma ban? Imo THAT is the only thing here not making sense

Thu 9 Jan 2020 12:40 PM by Delegator

He said that "aside from the permanent ban" character deletion is the worst. So, I think you're in agreement.

Thu 9 Jan 2020 12:56 PM by Sepplord

Delegator wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 12:40 PM
He said that "aside from the permanent ban" character deletion is the worst. So, I think you're in agreement.

Ah okay, i misread it this way:

And the penalties make no sense at all, aside from permanent ban.
The character deletion is the worse and it comes on first offense.

because otherwise i can't follow what he is even trying to say. Before i disagreed, but now i have no idea what he's on about. Either way i turn it, it's not logically sound imo. And all the while he is still spreading the false narrative that anyone got banned for staying logged in.

Thu 9 Jan 2020 1:40 PM by gotwqqd

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 12:56 PM
Delegator wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 12:40 PM
He said that "aside from the permanent ban" character deletion is the worst. So, I think you're in agreement.

Ah okay, i misread it this way:

And the penalties make no sense at all, aside from permanent ban.
The character deletion is the worse and it comes on first offense.

because otherwise i can't follow what he is even trying to say. Before i disagreed, but now i have no idea what he's on about. Either way i turn it, it's not logically sound imo. And all the while he is still spreading the false narrative that anyone got banned for staying logged in.

It’s not false
I had 25+ level 50’s wiped for simply keeping my toon logged in with a key press ....no macroing, no “gameplay”

Thu 9 Jan 2020 2:07 PM by Wolfir666

Well actually i think that there is not much difference between deletion of all characters or perma-ban.

If all of my characters were deleted instantly on first offense, id simply say goodbye to the game and play something else and let the Devs have some fun with their Rules while playing alone :p

And to be honest, i can't believe, that too many people would really start over again, even if all their characters were deleted.. there are a lot other games around without triggerhappy Devs on that note.

Thu 9 Jan 2020 2:54 PM by chryso

Delegator wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jan 2020 9:59 PM
I must be present with my pets and respond to a GM within some still-undefined time period or all my characters will be deleted and I will be banned.

You were afk farming, which is against the rules, and rather than just accept your warning you start what-about-theming. As if standing afk waiting for an rvr tick is the same as setting your pets an a spot to afk level/farm.
Stop being a douche and take your well deserved warning.

Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:08 PM by Delegator

chryso wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 2:54 PM
Delegator wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jan 2020 9:59 PM
I must be present with my pets and respond to a GM within some still-undefined time period or all my characters will be deleted and I will be banned.

You were afk farming, which is against the rules, and rather than just accept your warning you start what-about-theming. As if standing afk waiting for an rvr tick is the same as setting your pets an a spot to afk level/farm.
Stop being a douche and take your well deserved warning.

Show me where in the rules it says you can't be AFK.
https://playphoenix.online/rules

There is obviously this:
It is allowed to bind multiple actions to a key, however, delays, repeats, and conditions are strictly forbidden as well as any other means that allow unattended game-play

which is NOT what we are talking about. because there was no macroing or other decide used as a keep-alive or anything of the sort.

>As if standing afk waiting for an rvr tick is the same as setting your pets an a spot to afk level/farm.

So, standing around AFK to get RP and XP is NOT the same as standing around AFK and getting loot. Yeah, sure. Whatever. You are obviously the boss. Oh wait, you're just a douche weighing in on something that doesn't affect you at all.

Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:28 PM by Wolfir666

Delegator wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:08 PM
There is obviously this:
It is allowed to bind multiple actions to a key, however, delays, repeats, and conditions are strictly forbidden as well as any other means that allow unattended game-play

The problem is, that it is exactly this line, what its all about.
In fact, it is this here:
any other means that allow unattended game-play

That doesn't mean it has to be a macro or any delay, it basically also says, that it is against the rules, when a game-mechanism itself allows you to play while not actively attending your character. As it happens with automatic pets.

Very odd in truth, as it really is a *very bad* way to word it, when it's basically only about pets, which are set to Aggro or Defend you automatically while standing AFK in the spawn.

But yes.. that's the rules.. up to you and everybody else what they think of a truly *bad wording* like that.

Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:31 PM by chryso

Delegator wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:08 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 2:54 PM
Delegator wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jan 2020 9:59 PM
I must be present with my pets and respond to a GM within some still-undefined time period or all my characters will be deleted and I will be banned.

You were afk farming, which is against the rules, and rather than just accept your warning you start what-about-theming. As if standing afk waiting for an rvr tick is the same as setting your pets an a spot to afk level/farm.
Stop being a douche and take your well deserved warning.

Show me where in the rules it says you can't be AFK.
https://playphoenix.online/rules

There is obviously this:
It is allowed to bind multiple actions to a key, however, delays, repeats, and conditions are strictly forbidden as well as any other means that allow unattended game-play

which is NOT what we are talking about. because there was no macroing or other decide used as a keep-alive or anything of the sort.

>As if standing afk waiting for an rvr tick is the same as setting your pets an a spot to afk level/farm.

So, standing around AFK to get RP and XP is NOT the same as standing around AFK and getting loot. Yeah, sure. Whatever. You are obviously the boss. Oh wait, you're just a douche weighing in on something that doesn't affect you at all.

LOL, now you are ratcheting up the douche. I repeated what a dev said in this very thread and you are still arguing. I am sure you are a joy to be around.

Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:33 PM by Sepplord

Delegator wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:08 PM
Show me where in the rules it says you can't be AFK.
https://playphoenix.online/rules

There is obviously this:
It is allowed to bind multiple actions to a key, however, delays, repeats, and conditions are strictly forbidden as well as any other means that allow unattended game-play

which is NOT what we are talking about. because there was no macroing or other decide used as a keep-alive or anything of the sort.

>As if standing afk waiting for an rvr tick is the same as setting your pets an a spot to afk level/farm.

So, standing around AFK to get RP and XP is NOT the same as standing around AFK and getting loot. Yeah, sure. Whatever. You are obviously the boss. Oh wait, you're just a douche weighing in on something that doesn't affect you at all.

The rules you quote are for botting/macroing....if you were found guilty of that you would not get warned. Your account would be wiped, first offense. And i welcome that. Otherwise this server would be a botfarm, because everyone is allowed to bot until the get caught the first time.
People also don't get RP/XP for standing around, that is a false equivalenz. They get RP/XP for participating in RvR before going AFK. they are waiting for the rewards that they earned while being active, not generating rewards while being AFK.

I agree though that they could be more clear in their rules, but then i would also think a warning is not a fitting punishment.
Since on the first offense you merely get informed that you are not allowed to do it, what is your problem. You didn't get punished at all, just informed to stop doing that and what will happen the next time.

Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:36 PM by Sepplord

Wolfir666 wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:28 PM
Delegator wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:08 PM
There is obviously this:
It is allowed to bind multiple actions to a key, however, delays, repeats, and conditions are strictly forbidden as well as any other means that allow unattended game-play

The problem is, that it is exactly this line, what its all about.
In fact, it is this here:
any other means that allow unattended game-play

That doesn't mean it has to be a macro or any delay, it basically also says, that it is against the rules, when a game-mechanism itself allows you to play while not actively attending your character. As it happens with automatic pets.

Very odd in truth, as it really is a *very bad* way to word it, when it's basically only about pets, which are set to Aggro or Defend you automatically while standing AFK in the spawn.

But yes.. that's the rules.. up to you and everybody else what they think of a truly *bad wording* like that.

i half agree, but also disagree...

because being AFK with the pets killing stuff does NOT get punished under the rule you quoted. The punishment for the rule you quoted is "deletion of all characters" while the punishment for afk farming with pets is a simple warning with no other effects.

It's literally "you are breaking the rules, but there is no punishment. Just this warning and the information that you are not allowed to do that. NOW you know it, so next time the real punishment will come in"

You can argue that it still isn't optimal, but it is VERY far from the picture you are trying to paint.

Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:40 PM by Sepplord

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 1:40 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 12:56 PM
Delegator wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jan 2020 12:40 PM
He said that "aside from the permanent ban" character deletion is the worst. So, I think you're in agreement.

Ah okay, i misread it this way:

And the penalties make no sense at all, aside from permanent ban.
The character deletion is the worse and it comes on first offense.

because otherwise i can't follow what he is even trying to say. Before i disagreed, but now i have no idea what he's on about. Either way i turn it, it's not logically sound imo. And all the while he is still spreading the false narrative that anyone got banned for staying logged in.
It’s not false
I had 25+ level 50’s wiped for simply keeping my toon logged in with a key press ....no macroing, no “gameplay”

*Sigh*
That again. NO you did not get punished for "a key press". You got punished for automating keypresses.
You put a weight on a key, so it kept sending inputs to the game while you were not attending. That's automated gameplay.

When it happened i sympathised with you, because i believe you that you only used it to stay logged in/prevent screen burn in like you said. It also felt like you were taking your punishment with grace. Since then you are repeating the bullshit narrative that you were banned "for being logged in" and all my sympathy with you has gone down the drain. You are intentionally fearmongering and trashtalking this servers staffdecisions because you are butthurt.

Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:50 PM by Pao

Screen burned in, ha that's some 80s shit, you rocking your amber monochrome screens?

Thu 9 Jan 2020 3:57 PM by Sepplord

it's what he claimed, and i don't blame people for being afraid of it. Not everyone is techsavy, and i have seen a screenshot just yesterday of screen burn in on a galaxy S7 (iirr) because of too much ClashRoyale playing.
It also doesn't matter, i believed him back then to be honest, because he mostly seemed like a reasonable person in this forum. He has shown that to be false though, and now he has to be called out regularly for spewing toxic lies around

Thu 9 Jan 2020 4:07 PM by

Uthred

Im going to close this now. If anybody is still not sure about afk farming, feel free to send me a DM on discord.

It is "amazing" how some people using this thread to acuse the staff. It wasnt the staff who was afk farming. Also it wasnt the staff who was macroing (or putting some weight on your keyboard). It was you who didnt follow the rules that were in since day 1 and you got punished for that. So please dont turn this on the staff. If you dont stop mixing things up and twisting the truth, you will be in trouble again. Feel free to understand this as a warning. Thank you for understanding.

Locked.