Make RvR fun again!

Started 6 Jan 2020
by Niekas
in Suggestions
Hiho ~

As someone who has played this game nearly since launch, with breaks on and off, having both zerged, soloed, 8v8'd and bombed zergs - I am facing certain issues here on Phoenix, which I still love, but believe the game would be much much healthier! I will describe an issue and offer a solution.

1) Gtaoe Spam - The ground targeted 6sec cooldown AOE is a clear issue. It can make RvR both, fun and devastating, depending on which end you are on. Let's say you are fighting for your realm and end up defending a keep or a tower, considering fights nowadays include 100s of enemies on each side (which is great!) - you are lucky to be with a healer or two in group - else you are doomed. It takes 2 or more Elds/RMs/Wizzies to basically render any defense useless, especially in Towers: GTAOE target count is uncapped; goes through walls; interrupts. The receiving end is helpless and the only choice is to either abandon the Tower or sit there and enjoy being permanently interrupted and damaged to death. I am sure that anyone who has played Zerg RvR will see that as an issue for the receiving end. Possible fixes:

A. Make it so the damage can not go through walls (and floors).
B. Can only target GTAOE that they actually see. (Players currently can cast it on gtaoes that are not even visible to them).
C. Reduce the count of targets applicable, lets say, below or equal to 5? It would require a lot more of GTAOE users to achieve the same effect.

2) Pets doing whatever they want. I experience daily through my solo or group roaming/defending/attacking, I usually get "rekt", intentionally or not by enemy pets being invulnerable to objects. Be it SpiritMaster pet, Necromancer pet or any other summoned thing. They will go through walls and keep attacking you (unless controlled otherwise) until you or the pet are dead. Pathing/Pet Behaviour, I know it is a challenge from a programming standpoint, but lets think it around and why it happens. Pets can currently do 2 abusable things - walk through doors/gates, and clip into walls (mostly abusable by BDs/Necros). Fix:

A. Fix the pathing so pets cant go through doors, thats number 1. It is annoying and a bad game design. It is especially a nightmare if you are solo defending a keep or a tower and then randomly get a bunch of pets on you while you were supposedly safe in your own keep.
B. Clipping problem - Bridges and Tower/Keep corner walls.Pets currently if on 'follow' try to always take the quickest path to you, however while doing that they deny the "corner" hitboxes. If needed I can give an example, or anyone could test it on your own - walk slowly with a pet on follow through a bridge/keep corner and it will go 'inside it', ending up untargettable, thus meaning - unkillable. The only fix I can think of is the following - to teleport the pet back to its owner, I know it may cause some random &^* happening, but it would at least stop all the abuses. How would you know when to teleport it back? Check if the pet is untargetable by its owner (not in view) for a few (lets say, 10?) seconds while in the premises of a Keep or Tower or a Bridge. It is what happens when a pet is put inside a wall - not even the owner can 'target it' and receive the 'not in view' message. Purposedly, it would also discourage players from sending their pets wherever, plus stop the exploits.

Just saying, if I wanted, with close to 0 effort, and often randomly - I could get my necromancer pet to get into a wall and spook the zerg on my shade, for fun. Is it fun? I could then pop it out and kill someone, pop it back in? Keep in mind I have played necromancer for approx 20 hours since they even came out, so anyone can find these places and techniques. Banworthy? idk, what is considered banworthy at this point, messing around and spooking the zerg or sending your pet to the roof of a keep to kill its defender, through doors and walls? It is NOT fun for the receiving end. It was the issue on Live too since forever. Please, teleport them back.

You guys can post any additional suggestions for these or any other matter, I'd love to see and hear them. I just want to make RvR more fun for everyone, not for the ones who can/know how to abuse stuff.

Cheers ~
Mon 6 Jan 2020 7:05 PM by Azrael
/yawn

Pls explain to me which sense any gtaoe makes if you need LOS, could I not simply ae nuke the target? wtf are you thinking with 2 of 3 possible suggested solutions?

Pet thing afaik it is really difficult/impossible to fix pet through walls/doors, but that and gtaoe could be simply found in some other of these trillions of threads
Mon 6 Jan 2020 8:03 PM by easytoremember
You already get banned for intentionally hiding your pet inside objects
Mon 6 Jan 2020 8:45 PM by chryso
These ideas are bad and you should feel bad.
Tue 7 Jan 2020 12:59 AM by Niekas
I guess we have just found the Elds/RMs that abuse the gtaoe, huhuhuh

feel bad, they said
Tue 7 Jan 2020 1:00 AM by Niekas
Azrael wrote:
Mon 6 Jan 2020 7:05 PM
/yawn

Pls explain to me which sense any gtaoe makes if you need LOS, could I not simply ae nuke the target? wtf are you thinking with 2 of 3 possible suggested solutions?

Pet thing afaik it is really difficult/impossible to fix pet through walls/doors, but that and gtaoe could be simply found in some other of these trillions of threads

what target? How are you going to aoe nuke the target thats LOS, if not the gtaoe?

Stop abusing it already.
Tue 7 Jan 2020 10:04 AM by Sepplord
Niekas wrote:
Tue 7 Jan 2020 12:59 AM
I guess we have just found the Elds/RMs that abuse the gtaoe, huhuhuh

feel bad, they said

or maybe we have just found people that see that you haven't put much thought into your proposals and lack a lot of game and server knowledge.

This is a good example:
Niekas wrote:
Azrael wrote:
Mon 6 Jan 2020 7:05 PM
/yawn

Pls explain to me which sense any gtaoe makes if you need LOS, could I not simply ae nuke the target? wtf are you thinking with 2 of 3 possible suggested solutions?

Pet thing afaik it is really difficult/impossible to fix pet through walls/doors, but that and gtaoe could be simply found in some other of these trillions of threads

what target? How are you going to aoe nuke the target thats LOS, if not the gtaoe?

Stop abusing it already.

You aren't even understanding what the person is saying, but instead of trying to get more information or thinking about the argument you default to insulting people as abusers. The point was that requiring LOS for GTAE makes it a very bad, cooldown restricted, AOE-nuke with a worse targetting system.
It's similar to saying spreadheal shouldn't smartheal, it should heal everyone for the same value, and then be surprised when people hint at the fact that it would just be a worse version of groupheal
Tue 7 Jan 2020 3:20 PM by chryso
Niekas wrote:
Tue 7 Jan 2020 12:59 AM
I guess we have just found the Elds/RMs that abuse the gtaoe, huhuhuh

feel bad, they said

Nah, my highest runie/eld is like 27. I just understand that it is part of the game.
Tue 7 Jan 2020 3:38 PM by bettercasey
The entire point of a GTAOE is to be used without LOS. Has been that way literally forever. Just make it to where it doesn’t hit 3 floors of a tower, bam easy fix.
Wed 8 Jan 2020 3:06 PM by Cadebrennus
chryso wrote:
Mon 6 Jan 2020 8:45 PM
These ideas are bad and you should feel bad.

Wed 8 Jan 2020 6:16 PM by Niekas
chryso wrote:
Tue 7 Jan 2020 3:20 PM
Niekas wrote:
Tue 7 Jan 2020 12:59 AM
I guess we have just found the Elds/RMs that abuse the gtaoe, huhuhuh

feel bad, they said

Nah, my highest runie/eld is like 27. I just understand that it is part of the game.

that being said, a necro bugging his pet and doing whatever he wants, is also a part of the game? o wait
Wed 8 Jan 2020 6:18 PM by Niekas
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 7 Jan 2020 10:04 AM
Niekas wrote:
Tue 7 Jan 2020 12:59 AM
I guess we have just found the Elds/RMs that abuse the gtaoe, huhuhuh

feel bad, they said

or maybe we have just found people that see that you haven't put much thought into your proposals and lack a lot of game and server knowledge.

This is a good example:
Niekas wrote:
Azrael wrote:
Mon 6 Jan 2020 7:05 PM
/yawn

Pls explain to me which sense any gtaoe makes if you need LOS, could I not simply ae nuke the target? wtf are you thinking with 2 of 3 possible suggested solutions?

Pet thing afaik it is really difficult/impossible to fix pet through walls/doors, but that and gtaoe could be simply found in some other of these trillions of threads

what target? How are you going to aoe nuke the target thats LOS, if not the gtaoe?

Stop abusing it already.

You aren't even understanding what the person is saying, but instead of trying to get more information or thinking about the argument you default to insulting people as abusers. The point was that requiring LOS for GTAE makes it a very bad, cooldown restricted, AOE-nuke with a worse targetting system.
It's similar to saying spreadheal shouldn't smartheal, it should heal everyone for the same value, and then be surprised when people hint at the fact that it would just be a worse version of groupheal

how come a fixed LOS gtaoe spell is going to be less effective besides abusing what it does now? Game knowledge and experience, he said, lul. You could still gtaoe corners and hit the enemies behind, just as effective. Yet without it going through 3 floors and actual walls.
Wed 8 Jan 2020 6:20 PM by Niekas
bettercasey wrote:
Tue 7 Jan 2020 3:38 PM
The entire point of a GTAOE is to be used without LOS. Has been that way literally forever. Just make it to where it doesn’t hit 3 floors of a tower, bam easy fix.

Yet these experienced and acknowledged players in the previous posts are against it. It would be a huge and unnecessary nerf.

Please, you inexperienced player! It would be unhealthy for the game!
Wed 8 Jan 2020 6:39 PM by chryso
Niekas wrote:
Wed 8 Jan 2020 6:18 PM
how come a fixed LOS gtaoe spell is going to be less effective besides abusing what it does now?

You keep saying abuse. It is not abuse. It is working as intended.
Wed 8 Jan 2020 6:40 PM by chryso
Niekas wrote:
Wed 8 Jan 2020 6:16 PM
that being said, a necro bugging his pet and doing whatever he wants, is also a part of the game? o wait

Bugging a pet would be abuse. That is NOT working as intended.

Are you beginning to understand the difference? Let me know if I need to type slower.
Thu 9 Jan 2020 10:06 PM by Niekas
chryso wrote:
Wed 8 Jan 2020 6:39 PM
Niekas wrote:
Wed 8 Jan 2020 6:18 PM
how come a fixed LOS gtaoe spell is going to be less effective besides abusing what it does now?

You keep saying abuse. It is not abuse. It is working as intended.

since when aoeing through walls and LOS is not an abuse?

lmao. tragic persona detected
Fri 10 Jan 2020 8:11 AM by Sepplord
Niekas wrote:
Thu 9 Jan 2020 10:06 PM
chryso wrote:
Wed 8 Jan 2020 6:39 PM
Niekas wrote:
Wed 8 Jan 2020 6:18 PM
how come a fixed LOS gtaoe spell is going to be less effective besides abusing what it does now?

You keep saying abuse. It is not abuse. It is working as intended.

since when aoeing through walls and LOS is not an abuse?

lmao. tragic persona detected

since it's being done with a spell that is specifically designed into the game to do that
Fri 10 Jan 2020 10:04 PM by Horus
Those are not the most pressing issues bringing down the quality of RvR

The more critical...

HP buff
Too many and too cheap field RAs
Siege that is too cheap and too light.
Too many melee classes that can climb walls in Mid.


GTAOE is an annoyance in towers but I don't even consider towers a defensive position any more.

Pets no LOS and going through doors is def up there. Not much can be done without major coding I suspect.
Wed 15 Jan 2020 8:04 AM by Niekas
Horus wrote:
Fri 10 Jan 2020 10:04 PM
Those are not the most pressing issues bringing down the quality of RvR

The more critical...

HP buff
Too many and too cheap field RAs
Siege that is too cheap and too light.
Too many melee classes that can climb walls in Mid.


GTAOE is an annoyance in towers but I don't even consider towers a defensive position any more.

Pets no LOS and going through doors is def up there. Not much can be done without major coding I suspect.

I completely agree on the Savages able to climb walls. Then either VWs have to do it also, or neither. I loved the Live's version of Tanks having a Climbing spell.

Not sure what the HB buff is about, i rolled here a month ago. Whats that?
Wed 15 Jan 2020 12:25 PM by daytonchambers
I rolled an eld for the specific purpose of exploiting the piss out of gtaoe.

I figure that with my luck this bullshit will finally be nerfed once I get that eld to 50.
Wed 15 Jan 2020 1:28 PM by chryso
daytonchambers wrote:
Wed 15 Jan 2020 12:25 PM
I rolled an eld for the specific purpose of exploiting the piss out of gtaoe.

You are going to be disappointed when you learn that it is impossible to exploit something that is working as intended.
Wed 15 Jan 2020 2:29 PM by Horus
daytonchambers wrote:
Wed 15 Jan 2020 12:25 PM
I rolled an eld for the specific purpose of exploiting the piss out of gtaoe.

I figure that with my luck this bullshit will finally be nerfed once I get that eld to 50.

Must be a Ranger thing. I did the same thing. It is pretty good fun. However the short range gets annoying when you are used to volley.

However if you are used to setting GT s from volley it can be good fun just to GTAOE out of everything. However that is about all you have as a siege void eldy. The single target DD is lower delve than every other DD. The bolts don't do anything. In the BG I pretty much just used two spells, GTAOE and regular AoE. Aggressively charge..AoE the hell out of everything. DIe, get RPs while laying there.
Wed 15 Jan 2020 5:32 PM by daytonchambers
chryso wrote:
Wed 15 Jan 2020 1:28 PM
You are going to be disappointed when you learn that it is impossible to exploit something that is working as intended.


Someone clearly doesn't get that you can exploit something that is legal.
Thu 16 Jan 2020 11:04 PM by pollojack
I think a castable clim walls for main tanks sounds fun. Ten second duration, two minute reuse, commit or fall off the wall.
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