I had hope when I read that phoenix 'balanced' the classes

Shortee wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:31 AM
I played live, played uthgard and now phoenix. Every time its the same thing. Players laugh at how gimped hunters are. Its a wonder that game devs don't see this because everyone playing seems to agree. On live, hunters were useless. On uthgard hunters were useless. Now here on phoenix its just the same thing. Its very depressing because I don't group, run into nightshades, infiltrators, rangers and scouts and die everytime- yes EVERYTIME. hunters die to easily. Its not hard to figure out but I guess it must be hard to fix because no server has successfully "balanced" the classes. The only good thing i see here is it only took me 3 months to find out this time instead of 10! thanks for the attempt phoenix but until the classes are truly balanced - this game will be nothing but a waste of time and depressing. Anyone that says they're fine how they are is either someone that never played a solo hunter or someone that wants hunters to remain easy kills.

lol youre dying to scouts? i think the problem is with you, not hunters.

never groups and picks a class that has a reputation for sucking and pretty much depends on ppl to leech off of. youre grouping, youre just not invited lol.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:45 AM by Lipsi

Shortee wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:31 AM
.... this game will be nothing but a waste of time and depressing. Anyone that says they're fine how they are is either someone that never played a solo hunter or someone that wants hunters to remain easy kills.

I can only imagine your frustration about hunters because i don't play one, so i'm not really pertinent to discuss their balancing.
But that being said, the game as a whole is not just about solo hunters, so with 3 realms and over 30 classes to choose from, there is may be room to get a more enjoyable experience and fun. You mentionned nightshades, infiltrators, rangers and scouts, why not try one of those especially if you've had such bad experience with hunters over the years accross daoc multiple servers ?

Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:15 PM by MrWolf

keep the hunter apart, get items (legion heart, add damage etc).

meanwhile exp another class, maybe a really wanted one (shaman, healer paci, skald)

exping on phoenix is fast (not so much these days but still faster than any other server).

i get your frustration, played main hunter on vortigern ad rolled an hunter also here. rapidly understood that is a gimped class still here, so i made other pg and i keep the hunter for solo times when i miss an rvr group.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:54 PM by gromet12

Shortee wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:31 AM
I played live, played uthgard and now phoenix. Every time its the same thing. Players laugh at how gimped hunters are. Its a wonder that game devs don't see this because everyone playing seems to agree. On live, hunters were useless. On uthgard hunters were useless. Now here on phoenix its just the same thing. Its very depressing because I don't group, run into nightshades, infiltrators, rangers and scouts and die everytime- yes EVERYTIME. hunters die to easily. Its not hard to figure out but I guess it must be hard to fix because no server has successfully "balanced" the classes. The only good thing i see here is it only took me 3 months to find out this time instead of 10! thanks for the attempt phoenix but until the classes are truly balanced - this game will be nothing but a waste of time and depressing. Anyone that says they're fine how they are is either someone that never played a solo hunter or someone that wants hunters to remain easy kills.

The archers in general suffer here more so than when live at the same time frame. Other than classic server live, my favorite time was playing a hunter on mordred which again was a limited compared to others like here was under represented due to weaknesses, the hunter isn’t necessarily weak but some of the differences between the realms archers are more glaring here.

Rangers every time I’ve checked outnumbered hunters and scouts combined; even the number of assassins from each team will out number the combined count of hunter/scout so the question should be why? What about those two classes unlike the ranger makes them undesirable to play? DW is just too powerful and bow is just too weak

Tue 19 Nov 2019 3:01 PM by Horus

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:54 PM
Shortee wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:31 AM
I played live, played uthgard and now phoenix. Every time its the same thing. Players laugh at how gimped hunters are. Its a wonder that game devs don't see this because everyone playing seems to agree. On live, hunters were useless. On uthgard hunters were useless. Now here on phoenix its just the same thing. Its very depressing because I don't group, run into nightshades, infiltrators, rangers and scouts and die everytime- yes EVERYTIME. hunters die to easily. Its not hard to figure out but I guess it must be hard to fix because no server has successfully "balanced" the classes. The only good thing i see here is it only took me 3 months to find out this time instead of 10! thanks for the attempt phoenix but until the classes are truly balanced - this game will be nothing but a waste of time and depressing. Anyone that says they're fine how they are is either someone that never played a solo hunter or someone that wants hunters to remain easy kills.

The archers in general suffer here more so than when live at the same time frame. Other than classic server live, my favorite time was playing a hunter on mordred which again was a limited compared to others like here was under represented due to weaknesses, the hunter isn’t necessarily weak but some of the differences between the realms archers are more glaring here.

Rangers every time I’ve checked outnumbered hunters and scouts combined; even the number of assassins from each team will out number the combined count of hunter/scout so the question should be why? What about those two classes unlike the ranger makes them undesirable to play? DW is just too powerful and bow is just too weak

Hunters actually got a buff to their self buffs and pet not too long ago, also armor vulnerability to slash got lowered. You could make the argument that you can build a more successful range+melee hybrid with a hunter than Ranger. With a ranger you are stuck going either practically full bow or practically full melee. Full melee ranger will most of the time in melee combat but a bow or hybrid ranger will get beat by a hunter every time in melee. And a pet + spear is better than DW in many situations....sometimes maybe DW is better...just depends. I don't think hunters are too bad off ATM....other than the same nerf to bow effectiveness all archer just got hit with because of the HP and armor change.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 6:51 PM by stewbeedoo

Sorry you are having no fun.

As an archer we are pretty much limited to killing others sneaks and casters. You will occasionally win against a tank/light tank if they are low RR. So you have to be very selective about who you attack.

From what I have seen, Hunters should be able to beat Scouts pretty consistently. Maybe your spec is not optimal. My Ranger is RR6 and the only Hunter I have trouble with is Malla - check with him/her as to their spec and RAs.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 8:00 PM by chryso

I know this is going to sound crazy but don't play a hunter.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 8:09 PM by Roto23

Shortee wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:31 AM
I played live, played uthgard and now phoenix. Every time its the same thing. Players laugh at how gimped hunters are. Its a wonder that game devs don't see this because everyone playing seems to agree. On live, hunters were useless. On uthgard hunters were useless. Now here on phoenix its just the same thing. Its very depressing because I don't group, run into nightshades, infiltrators, rangers and scouts and die everytime- yes EVERYTIME. hunters die to easily. Its not hard to figure out but I guess it must be hard to fix because no server has successfully "balanced" the classes. The only good thing i see here is it only took me 3 months to find out this time instead of 10! thanks for the attempt phoenix but until the classes are truly balanced - this game will be nothing but a waste of time and depressing. Anyone that says they're fine how they are is either someone that never played a solo hunter or someone that wants hunters to remain easy kills.

Why don't you ask inoeth for some tips and how to spec/play your hunter. He had Good success on his hunter

Tue 19 Nov 2019 11:14 PM by Dadbodosteel

The main problem with the Hunter and scout is the pitiful bow damage. My ranger can jack up most classes from range before engaging in melee, the Hunter on the other hand feels like I'm tickling them. When it comes to melee, the Hunter hits hard but swings Soo slow compared to the others and the Dodge rate against stealthers screws you. There was a time on live where hunter pets snared and they were Kings of kiting, something along those lines need to be added to the Hunter class. Make it an ra with a cooldown so they don't have an I win pet constantly, not that it's that hard to kill a hunter pet anyways.

Wed 20 Nov 2019 12:49 AM by stewbeedoo

Dadbodosteel wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 11:14 PM
The main problem with the Hunter and scout is the pitiful bow damage. My ranger can jack up most classes from range before engaging in melee, the Hunter on the other hand feels like I'm tickling them. When it comes to melee, the Hunter hits hard but swings Soo slow compared to the others and the Dodge rate against stealthers screws you. There was a time on live where hunter pets snared and they were Kings of kiting, something along those lines need to be added to the Hunter class. Make it an ra with a cooldown so they don't have an I win pet constantly, not that it's that hard to kill a hunter pet anyways.

Pretty sure that Archery is the same for all 3 classes - Hunters are at no disadvantage for Bow damage.

Wed 20 Nov 2019 10:53 AM by gromet12

stewbeedoo wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Nov 2019 12:49 AM
Dadbodosteel wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 11:14 PM
The main problem with the Hunter and scout is the pitiful bow damage. My ranger can jack up most classes from range before engaging in melee, the Hunter on the other hand feels like I'm tickling them. When it comes to melee, the Hunter hits hard but swings Soo slow compared to the others and the Dodge rate against stealthers screws you. There was a time on live where hunter pets snared and they were Kings of kiting, something along those lines need to be added to the Hunter class. Make it an ra with a cooldown so they don't have an I win pet constantly, not that it's that hard to kill a hunter pet anyways.

Pretty sure that Archery is the same for all 3 classes - Hunters are at no disadvantage for Bow damage.

Archery dmg comes mainly from the bow speed, being Hunters have fast bows there is a difference in dmg. Then add the DA

Thu 21 Nov 2019 1:17 AM by stewbeedoo

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Nov 2019 10:53 AM
stewbeedoo wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Nov 2019 12:49 AM
Dadbodosteel wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 11:14 PM
The main problem with the Hunter and scout is the pitiful bow damage. My ranger can jack up most classes from range before engaging in melee, the Hunter on the other hand feels like I'm tickling them. When it comes to melee, the Hunter hits hard but swings Soo slow compared to the others and the Dodge rate against stealthers screws you. There was a time on live where hunter pets snared and they were Kings of kiting, something along those lines need to be added to the Hunter class. Make it an ra with a cooldown so they don't have an I win pet constantly, not that it's that hard to kill a hunter pet anyways.

Pretty sure that Archery is the same for all 3 classes - Hunters are at no disadvantage for Bow damage.

Archery dmg comes mainly from the bow speed, being Hunters have fast bows there is a difference in dmg. Then add the DA

Are you saying Hunters don't have access to 5.5 Spd Bows? What is their speed?

Thu 21 Nov 2019 1:57 AM by gromet12

stewbeedoo wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Nov 2019 1:17 AM
gromet12 wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Nov 2019 10:53 AM
stewbeedoo wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Nov 2019 12:49 AM
Pretty sure that Archery is the same for all 3 classes - Hunters are at no disadvantage for Bow damage.

Archery dmg comes mainly from the bow speed, being Hunters have fast bows there is a difference in dmg. Then add the DA

Are you saying Hunters don't have access to 5.5 Spd Bows? What is their speed?

5.0 is the slowest possible for hunters

Thu 21 Nov 2019 2:03 AM by easytoremember

Why is every other thread title in Suggestions melodramatic tripe

Thu 21 Nov 2019 2:55 AM by Azrael

lol.
ok, beside that I can not tell if archers on this server are trash in comparison to other server and I do not care but this is really funny.

Shortee wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:31 AM
I played live, played uthgard and now phoenix. Every time its the same thing. Players laugh at how gimped hunters are. Its a wonder that game devs don't see this because everyone playing seems to agree. On live, hunters were useless. On uthgard hunters were useless. Now here on phoenix its just the same thing. Its very depressing because I don't group, run into nightshades, infiltrators, rangers and scouts and die everytime- yes EVERYTIME. hunters die to easily. Its not hard to figure out but I guess it must be hard to fix because no server has successfully "balanced" the classes. The only good thing i see here is it only took me 3 months to find out this time instead of 10! thanks for the attempt phoenix but until the classes are truly balanced - this game will be nothing but a waste of time and depressing. Anyone that says they're fine how they are is either someone that never played a solo hunter or someone that wants hunters to remain easy kills.

You really needed 3 months to find out that hunters(archers) are trash in this game? GZ on ignoring all this spam in advice/region and on this forum. Great whine post.

PS. Can I have your stuff plz?

easytoremember wrote: Why is every other thread title in Suggestions melodramatic tripe

Probably to get more clicks? Would probably not read a thread which has a reasonable suggestion with objective arguments in it.

edit: It makes it more funny when all these whines about scouts, to which you are dying all the time, come into my mind.

Sun 1 Dec 2019 5:55 PM by Siouxsie

As someone who has played hunter on Live, Uthgard and Genesis/Origins, I can say that it is incredibly difficult to play a hunter here. With the HP increase, bow damage has been effectively nerfed. Spear damage is decent, but you swing so slow (always have a pet out vs an opponent, it cuts their evade rate by 10%).

Assassins are insanely overpowered on this server, and while others in this thread tell all archers are gimped, scouts have very useful shield slam and block rate, and rangers have crazy melee damage with duel wield.

What hunters need is an attack speed reduction off one move (instead of off evade chain + 2) to counter the assasins crazily overpowered weapon skill debuff and whatever that str/con debuff is that knocks off 500 of my hitpoints when I fight them.

The hunter's dog should also proc disease, that would at least balance hunters vs other classes.

Sun 1 Dec 2019 6:42 PM by chois

play scout and you ll see what is the hell and i speak about scout ALONE

Mon 2 Dec 2019 11:22 AM by inoeth

alrdy 3 pages and i didnt find this thread yet....

ok first of all hunters are not that bad! in fact they are in a very good position on this server right now.
but there are some things that are important to compete in stealther battle.

-forget bow spec
-slowest weapons are good is a myth
-forget sword spec

so what does that mean?
specwise is suggest something like this

42bc
27 bow
35 stealth
47 spear

you need a high melee spec to do any dmg and to also be able to reduce evade a little bit, but with your pet you are able to reduce assassins evade to ~28% anyway.
you only need your bow for critshot and finishing, rapid fire is totally useless and a waste of spec points.
high bc for red shield, yellow dex/quick and ofc highest pet.

dont bother too much about RAs like mastery of arms, it wont help you very much. better get ROG spears with 3.9 and 4.3 speed and get close to 250 quick.
use attack speed reduce styles like perforate and extended reach.
use dex/quick debuff charges.

its important to have as much HP as possible so i suggest to take the dwarf race as hunter (also eyepatch helps alot)
toughness RA is your friend.
IP3-4 is you friend.

get a crafted vest with DA proc besides TG vest for switching during fights, so you can have DA without charging it. its far more important to dex/quick debuff enemys.
dont use legions heart its a waste (only 120 heal with desease)

if you have more questions feel free to write me a pm or call me in game (horg)

Wed 4 Dec 2019 5:31 PM by gromet12

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 2 Dec 2019 11:22 AM
alrdy 3 pages and i didnt find this thread yet....

ok first of all hunters are not that bad! in fact they are in a very good position on this server right now.
but there are some things that are important to compete in stealther battle.

-forget bow spec
-slowest weapons are good is a myth
-forget sword spec

so what does that mean?
specwise is suggest something like this

42bc
27 bow
35 stealth
47 spear

you need a high melee spec to do any dmg and to also be able to reduce evade a little bit, but with your pet you are able to reduce assassins evade to ~28% anyway.
you only need your bow for critshot and finishing, rapid fire is totally useless and a waste of spec points.
high bc for red shield, yellow dex/quick and ofc highest pet.

dont bother too much about RAs like mastery of arms, it wont help you very much. better get ROG spears with 3.9 and 4.3 speed and get close to 250 quick.
use attack speed reduce styles like perforate and extended reach.
use dex/quick debuff charges.

its important to have as much HP as possible so i suggest to take the dwarf race as hunter (also eyepatch helps alot)
toughness RA is your friend.
IP3-4 is you friend.

get a crafted vest with DA proc besides TG vest for switching during fights, so you can have DA without charging it. its far more important to dex/quick debuff enemys.
dont use legions heart its a waste (only 120 heal with desease)

if you have more questions feel free to write me a pm or call me in game (horg)

So your solution is to play a gimp melee stealther because it’s 2hand melee and relay on high rr and ip3 to fight low rr assassins and casters, instead of fixing the main weapon of the archetype?

Why not roll SB and forget LA spec, you would do more damage and have it easier than a hunter as a 2handed SB. Yes hunters will have slightly higher base dmg if all is the same (patch 1.5x if that is live here or not I’m not sure tbh) but the SB gets better stealth (QOL for Phoenix sneaks except for archers), envenom debuffs, DOT dmg, and CS styles have higher GR and pop bubbles.

Wed 4 Dec 2019 7:18 PM by Riac

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Wed 4 Dec 2019 5:31 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 2 Dec 2019 11:22 AM
alrdy 3 pages and i didnt find this thread yet....

ok first of all hunters are not that bad! in fact they are in a very good position on this server right now.
but there are some things that are important to compete in stealther battle.

-forget bow spec
-slowest weapons are good is a myth
-forget sword spec

so what does that mean?
specwise is suggest something like this

42bc
27 bow
35 stealth
47 spear

you need a high melee spec to do any dmg and to also be able to reduce evade a little bit, but with your pet you are able to reduce assassins evade to ~28% anyway.
you only need your bow for critshot and finishing, rapid fire is totally useless and a waste of spec points.
high bc for red shield, yellow dex/quick and ofc highest pet.

dont bother too much about RAs like mastery of arms, it wont help you very much. better get ROG spears with 3.9 and 4.3 speed and get close to 250 quick.
use attack speed reduce styles like perforate and extended reach.
use dex/quick debuff charges.

its important to have as much HP as possible so i suggest to take the dwarf race as hunter (also eyepatch helps alot)
toughness RA is your friend.
IP3-4 is you friend.

get a crafted vest with DA proc besides TG vest for switching during fights, so you can have DA without charging it. its far more important to dex/quick debuff enemys.
dont use legions heart its a waste (only 120 heal with desease)

if you have more questions feel free to write me a pm or call me in game (horg)

So your solution is to play a gimp melee stealther because it’s 2hand melee and relay on high rr and ip3 to fight low rr assassins and casters, instead of fixing the main weapon of the archetype?

Why not roll SB and forget LA spec, you would do more damage and have it easier than a hunter as a 2handed SB. Yes hunters will have slightly higher base dmg if all is the same (patch 1.5x if that is live here or not I’m not sure tbh) but the SB gets better stealth (QOL for Phoenix sneaks except for archers), envenom debuffs, DOT dmg, and CS styles have higher GR and pop bubbles.

why roll these lame ass archers classes at all?????

Thu 5 Dec 2019 9:20 AM by inoeth

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Wed 4 Dec 2019 5:31 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 2 Dec 2019 11:22 AM
alrdy 3 pages and i didnt find this thread yet....

ok first of all hunters are not that bad! in fact they are in a very good position on this server right now.
but there are some things that are important to compete in stealther battle.

-forget bow spec
-slowest weapons are good is a myth
-forget sword spec

so what does that mean?
specwise is suggest something like this

42bc
27 bow
35 stealth
47 spear

you need a high melee spec to do any dmg and to also be able to reduce evade a little bit, but with your pet you are able to reduce assassins evade to ~28% anyway.
you only need your bow for critshot and finishing, rapid fire is totally useless and a waste of spec points.
high bc for red shield, yellow dex/quick and ofc highest pet.

dont bother too much about RAs like mastery of arms, it wont help you very much. better get ROG spears with 3.9 and 4.3 speed and get close to 250 quick.
use attack speed reduce styles like perforate and extended reach.
use dex/quick debuff charges.

its important to have as much HP as possible so i suggest to take the dwarf race as hunter (also eyepatch helps alot)
toughness RA is your friend.
IP3-4 is you friend.

get a crafted vest with DA proc besides TG vest for switching during fights, so you can have DA without charging it. its far more important to dex/quick debuff enemys.
dont use legions heart its a waste (only 120 heal with desease)

if you have more questions feel free to write me a pm or call me in game (horg)

So your solution is to play a gimp melee stealther because it’s 2hand melee and relay on high rr and ip3 to fight low rr assassins and casters, instead of fixing the main weapon of the archetype?

Why not roll SB and forget LA spec, you would do more damage and have it easier than a hunter as a 2handed SB. Yes hunters will have slightly higher base dmg if all is the same (patch 1.5x if that is live here or not I’m not sure tbh) but the SB gets better stealth (QOL for Phoenix sneaks except for archers), envenom debuffs, DOT dmg, and CS styles have higher GR and pop bubbles.

nobody forces you to play hunter, imo hunters are very strong if played correctly which is not full bow spec (i always hated the archer changes on live servers, always played melee hunter). btw stealth is the same for all here.
the good thing is you can be full melee and still kill with your bow because the last crit shot is at 27 skill ... i really dont understand why some ppl want to dump all their skillpoints into bow so hard and gimp all others skill lines ;D well if you do so then you can not argue hunters being gimped, its you then.

Thu 5 Dec 2019 9:39 AM by Sepplord

Just for the sake of completion:

Stealth is not fully equal, but still equivalent (<- last i also had to think a bit before realising)

If you want to HUNT stealthers, then archers have an advantage, because they can see everyone at an increased range. An archer has a much easier time finding assassins than assassins do.
If you want to AVOID stealthers, then assassins have an advantage, because they are only seen at an increased range by archers. An assassins has a much easier time stealthing through an area with enemy assassins undetected.

Thu 5 Dec 2019 10:50 AM by Nunki

Shortee wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:31 AM
I played live, played uthgard and now phoenix. Every time its the same thing. Players laugh at how gimped hunters are. Its a wonder that game devs don't see this because everyone playing seems to agree. On live, hunters were useless. On uthgard hunters were useless. Now here on phoenix its just the same thing. Its very depressing because I don't group, run into nightshades, infiltrators, rangers and scouts and die everytime- yes EVERYTIME. hunters die to easily. Its not hard to figure out but I guess it must be hard to fix because no server has successfully "balanced" the classes. The only good thing i see here is it only took me 3 months to find out this time instead of 10! thanks for the attempt phoenix but until the classes are truly balanced - this game will be nothing but a waste of time and depressing. Anyone that says they're fine how they are is either someone that never played a solo hunter or someone that wants hunters to remain easy kills.

I play a hunter and have no problems at all (nearly RR6).
In an equal situation (both same RA and all active RA's ready) I can kill nearly every class (including melee stealther).
There are some classes I might not want to INC on (eg warrior in melee) but thats the game since 20 years.
At first I wanted to say "Don't attack Warriors" but thats not even true, if played well you can outkite a warrior easily (as long as nobody is adding).

They slightly buffed the Hunter (spear / pet dmg and highest pet has speed 1) and made it absolutely playable.

Please provide more information (race, spec, RAs, etc.) and search for help.
You need to understand that YOU are the problem, not the class. Otherwise you won't improve.

Either your spec, RA's, temp, playstyle or skill are not as good as it could be. According to what you said, most if not all of these points can be improved.

Thu 5 Dec 2019 1:40 PM by inoeth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 9:39 AM
Just for the sake of completion:

Stealth is not fully equal, but still equivalent (<- last i also had to think a bit before realising)

If you want to HUNT stealthers, then archers have an advantage, because they can see everyone at an increased range. An archer has a much easier time finding assassins than assassins do.
If you want to AVOID stealthers, then assassins have an advantage, because they are only seen at an increased range by archers. An assassins has a much easier time stealthing through an area with enemy assassins undetected.

no assassins and archers have both the same stealth

Thu 5 Dec 2019 2:25 PM by gromet12

inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 1:40 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 9:39 AM
Just for the sake of completion:

Stealth is not fully equal, but still equivalent (<- last i also had to think a bit before realising)

If you want to HUNT stealthers, then archers have an advantage, because they can see everyone at an increased range. An archer has a much easier time finding assassins than assassins do.
If you want to AVOID stealthers, then assassins have an advantage, because they are only seen at an increased range by archers. An assassins has a much easier time stealthing through an area with enemy assassins undetected.

no assassins and archers have both the same stealth

Should read up on the QOL changes

http://playphoenix.wiki/stealth-changes/

And archers lost camo, get no benefit from MOS (like others) but MOS was a tool that allowed archers to get their openings off while on a sneak it allowed them to see archers further to avoid if needed, but didn't change the sins vs sin combat.

All same sin vs sin 125
Sin vs rest 250
Archer vs all 125
Mini vs all 125

So it’s not equal, archers and minis have detect at half the range of sins and camo which slowed the archer to get into position if not in pvp last 10mins was removed from the archer. The mini and the sins gained the most from the QOL stealth adjustments.

Thu 5 Dec 2019 2:38 PM by inoeth

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 2:25 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 1:40 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 9:39 AM
Just for the sake of completion:

Stealth is not fully equal, but still equivalent (<- last i also had to think a bit before realising)

If you want to HUNT stealthers, then archers have an advantage, because they can see everyone at an increased range. An archer has a much easier time finding assassins than assassins do.
If you want to AVOID stealthers, then assassins have an advantage, because they are only seen at an increased range by archers. An assassins has a much easier time stealthing through an area with enemy assassins undetected.

no assassins and archers have both the same stealth

Should read up on the QOL changes

http://playphoenix.wiki/stealth-changes/

And archers lost camo, get no benefit from MOS (like others) but MOS was a tool that allowed archers to get their openings off while on a sneak it allowed them to see archers further to avoid if needed, but didn't change the sins vs sin combat.

All same sin vs sin 125
Sin vs rest 250
Archer vs all 125
Mini vs all 125

So it’s not equal, archers and minis have detect at half the range of sins and camo which slowed the archer to get into position if not in pvp last 10mins was removed from the archer. The mini and the sins gained the most from the QOL stealth adjustments.

thats old information, there was a patch 6 month ago where they changed it to all having 250 detect range

Thu 5 Dec 2019 3:42 PM by Sepplord

inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 2:38 PM
gromet12 wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 2:25 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 1:40 PM
no assassins and archers have both the same stealth

Should read up on the QOL changes

http://playphoenix.wiki/stealth-changes/

And archers lost camo, get no benefit from MOS (like others) but MOS was a tool that allowed archers to get their openings off while on a sneak it allowed them to see archers further to avoid if needed, but didn't change the sins vs sin combat.

All same sin vs sin 125
Sin vs rest 250
Archer vs all 125
Mini vs all 125

So it’s not equal, archers and minis have detect at half the range of sins and camo which slowed the archer to get into position if not in pvp last 10mins was removed from the archer. The mini and the sins gained the most from the QOL stealth adjustments.

thats old information, there was a patch 6 month ago where they changed it to all having 250 detect range

Imo, both of you have it wrong....because all only have the same detection range against each other. Aka archers see assassins, when assassins see archers.
But there are still differences. Because assassins still see themselves (aka other assassins) at the reduced range.

That results in the situation i described earlier

Sepplord wrote: If you want to HUNT stealthers, then archers have an advantage, because they can see everyone at an increased range. An archer has a much easier time finding assassins than assassins do.
If you want to AVOID stealthers, then assassins have an advantage, because they are only seen at an increased range by archers. An assassins has a much easier time stealthing through an area with enemy assassins undetected.

Basically assassins are better stealthers, while archers are better stealthdetectors

Thu 5 Dec 2019 7:12 PM by gromet12

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 3:42 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 2:38 PM
gromet12 wrote: ↑
Thu 5 Dec 2019 2:25 PM
Should read up on the QOL changes

http://playphoenix.wiki/stealth-changes/

And archers lost camo, get no benefit from MOS (like others) but MOS was a tool that allowed archers to get their openings off while on a sneak it allowed them to see archers further to avoid if needed, but didn't change the sins vs sin combat.

All same sin vs sin 125
Sin vs rest 250
Archer vs all 125
Mini vs all 125

So it’s not equal, archers and minis have detect at half the range of sins and camo which slowed the archer to get into position if not in pvp last 10mins was removed from the archer. The mini and the sins gained the most from the QOL stealth adjustments.

thats old information, there was a patch 6 month ago where they changed it to all having 250 detect range

Imo, both of you have it wrong....because all only have the same detection range against each other. Aka archers see assassins, when assassins see archers.
But there are still differences. Because assassins still see themselves (aka other assassins) at the reduced range.

That results in the situation i described earlier
Sepplord wrote: If you want to HUNT stealthers, then archers have an advantage, because they can see everyone at an increased range. An archer has a much easier time finding assassins than assassins do.
If you want to AVOID stealthers, then assassins have an advantage, because they are only seen at an increased range by archers. An assassins has a much easier time stealthing through an area with enemy assassins undetected.

Basically assassins are better stealthers, while archers are better stealthdetectors

I looked for patch notes: still not equal as stated

Stealth detection has changed
- speed of detector is no longer substracted from range, instead the range is divided depending on speed (net result: increased detection range with speed compared to before this update)
- minstrels no longer have any bonus stealth detection
- archers detect minstrels from further away
- archers detect assassins from slightly further away
- archers detect archers from slightly further away
- assassins detect minstrels from further away
- detector stealth status no longer influences detection range

Sin vs sin is 125 and always has been, but slightly higher range does not mean double existing range which it was in archer vs sin

(sins see archers at 250 while archers saw sins @ 125...the boost in the patch note does not state it’s now even both are at 250, sins only adjustment in the patch was to see minstrels further, not see archers less, and archers gained slight improvement in seeing sins but no range given in notes).

All stealth is not the same based on QOL wiki and patch noted

Thu 5 Dec 2019 9:35 PM by Sepplord

I never said they were equal, i specifically said they were equivalent!

And i intentionally left minstrels out, to not overcomplicate since apparently even looking only at Assassins and archers seems to be too much to grasp for some here. 😘

I feel like i need to repeat what has already been said, but at the same time don't think it would do any help

Thu 12 Dec 2019 8:40 AM by Nunki

Shortee wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 1:18 AM
And I challenge you - post your name so I can see all these kills you claim you have...I bet your deaths are still way higher than ANY other class when comparing X times you died to reach RR6. You know everything I say is true you just must have a ranger or a infi/nightshade and you still want the easy kills...

Rofl.

A. Learn to quote properly and people may answers your questions.

B. Answer questions before you ask questions. I asked for your spec / playstyle and several other factors that might help to improve your playstyle but you are obviously scared to provide any Information. You either know that you can't play and/or you prefer troll/flame over improvement.

C. Why are there RR10 Hunters with a posivite solo kill to death ratio?
Take Alusetta (Gratz to RR10 btw, amazing stats):
solo kills: 3673
total kills: 6846
deaths: 941

Hunter unplayable?

Regarding your questions if anyone ever got invited to HoH.
Stealthers in general are no PvM classes and have never been.
There are many classes nobody wants in HoH/DS and nearly none of them are underpowered in RvR.

In General, achieving a positive solo kill to death ratio is extremely difficult, due to the fact that you rarely have 1v1's without adds.

Thu 12 Dec 2019 10:31 AM by Sepplord

In general i agree with that Post Nunki, and i don't want to bash Alusetta (really, imo getting any class to RR10 in any way shows a lot of determination, and imo all playstyles are fine) but when you look more detailed into the stats then you will see that a lot of those solokills must have been VS levellers/under-50 opponents.

She/He has ~3million kill-RPs, and around 3600solokills / 6800total kills
Even assuming all not-solokills only gave 1RP, and taking them out of the calculation completely that leads to only 833RP/Kill

That doesn't void your comment in general, but looking at herald stats really doesn't say much either way

Thu 12 Dec 2019 5:52 PM by Nunki

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 10:31 AM
In general i agree with that Post Nunki, and i don't want to bash Alusetta (really, imo getting any class to RR10 in any way shows a lot of determination, and imo all playstyles are fine) but when you look more detailed into the stats then you will see that a lot of those solokills must have been VS levellers/under-50 opponents.

She/He has ~3million kill-RPs, and around 3600solokills / 6800total kills
Even assuming all not-solokills only gave 1RP, and taking them out of the calculation completely that leads to only 833RP/Kill

That doesn't void your comment in general, but looking at herald stats really doesn't say much either way

Agreed.

Mon 17 Feb 2020 9:10 PM by Siouxsie

Shortee -

You're not wrong. Hunters ARE gimped. I can't kill anything unless all my RAs are up. Bow damage sucks. Spear is slow,
and assassins and others have way more tricks and utility than I do.

Mon 17 Feb 2020 9:34 PM by Pao

At least the hunter is not as gimp as a scout. Because they suck big fat donkey d!cks

Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:06 PM by inoeth

Shortee wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:31 AM
I played live, played uthgard and now phoenix. Every time its the same thing. Players laugh at how gimped hunters are. Its a wonder that game devs don't see this because everyone playing seems to agree. On live, hunters were useless. On uthgard hunters were useless. Now here on phoenix its just the same thing. Its very depressing because I don't group, run into nightshades, infiltrators, rangers and scouts and die everytime- yes EVERYTIME. hunters die to easily. Its not hard to figure out but I guess it must be hard to fix because no server has successfully "balanced" the classes. The only good thing i see here is it only took me 3 months to find out this time instead of 10! thanks for the attempt phoenix but until the classes are truly balanced - this game will be nothing but a waste of time and depressing. Anyone that says they're fine how they are is either someone that never played a solo hunter or someone that wants hunters to remain easy kills.

the only time hunters were really gimp was pre 1.69
after that hunters were really really strong.
also on uthgard 1 hunters were strong
also here hunters are strong

thing is ppl dont know anything about the class and expect to have a ranged insta kill class which hunter is not and thats a good thing, otherwise we would have alot of gank squads

l2p

Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:07 PM by inoeth

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Feb 2020 9:10 PM
Shortee -

You're not wrong. Hunters ARE gimped. I can't kill anything unless all my RAs are up. Bow damage sucks. Spear is slow,
and assassins and others have way more tricks and utility than I do.

i told you like 1000 times how to play hunter and you keep on complaining.

i have zero problems to kill any class, well except necros

Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:11 PM by Nunki

Shortee wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Feb 2020 9:12 AM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 8:40 AM
Shortee wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 1:18 AM
And I challenge you - post your name so I can see all these kills you claim you have...I bet your deaths are still way higher than ANY other class when comparing X times you died to reach RR6. You know everything I say is true you just must have a ranger or a infi/nightshade and you still want the easy kills...

Rofl.

A. Learn to quote properly and people may answers your questions.

B. Answer questions before you ask questions. I asked for your spec / playstyle and several other factors that might help to improve your playstyle but you are obviously scared to provide any Information. You either know that you can't play and/or you prefer troll/flame over improvement.

C. Why are there RR10 Hunters with a posivite solo kill to death ratio?
Take Alusetta (Gratz to RR10 btw, amazing stats):
solo kills: 3673
total kills: 6846
deaths: 941

Hunter unplayable?

Regarding your questions if anyone ever got invited to HoH.
Stealthers in general are no PvM classes and have never been.
There are many classes nobody wants in HoH/DS and nearly none of them are underpowered in RvR.

In General, achieving a positive solo kill to death ratio is extremely difficult, due to the fact that you rarely have 1v1's without adds.

So why do i have a much better ratio on my skald? my zerk? my savage? my shaman? my warrior? - please stop trying to mislead the Devs/GMs by posting an underpowered class is 'fine how it is" - people like you ruin things for honest people like me.

This is my personal opinion. No reason to get triggered that much.

Nothing personal.

Hunter is underpowered but playable, for sure not GIMP. Scout was gimp before the new shield-style was introduced (probably even after that).
Hunter could for sure need some love (as bow dmg in general needs a revamp), but again, that doesn't mean that it is unplayable.
Increased pet dmg and speed 1 is a nice thing, if used well.

I can outplay many melee stealther (same RR and RA's ready, obviously not Vanish) with my hunter, especially when I don't go full melee on them but rather kite them with proper pet-management. Which is the reason why I asked you for your spec and playstyle, but you refute to give me information on that.

Please don't compare solo kill ratios between all your melee tank/offtank chars (or shaman) and a hunter.
As you wouldn't compare any other archetype with each other, that doesn't help.

Hunter is for sure inferior regarding melee stealth fights, but by far not unplayable.

Regarding your claim I'd say all this just to make it easier for me to farm Hunters.
I played solely on Midgard and enjoyed my Hunter quite a lot.

On the other side I don't ragequit when I get shredded by a NS/Infi 3 RR's higher than me.
I am more the guy who has fun kiting them to death as the situation warrants.

Have a good time and don't take it too serious.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:16 PM by inoeth

Nunki wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 8:40 AM
Shortee wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 1:18 AM
And I challenge you - post your name so I can see all these kills you claim you have...I bet your deaths are still way higher than ANY other class when comparing X times you died to reach RR6. You know everything I say is true you just must have a ranger or a infi/nightshade and you still want the easy kills...

Rofl.

A. Learn to quote properly and people may answers your questions.

B. Answer questions before you ask questions. I asked for your spec / playstyle and several other factors that might help to improve your playstyle but you are obviously scared to provide any Information. You either know that you can't play and/or you prefer troll/flame over improvement.

C. Why are there RR10 Hunters with a posivite solo kill to death ratio?
Take Alusetta (Gratz to RR10 btw, amazing stats):
solo kills: 3673
total kills: 6846
deaths: 941

Hunter unplayable?

Regarding your questions if anyone ever got invited to HoH.
Stealthers in general are no PvM classes and have never been.
There are many classes nobody wants in HoH/DS and nearly none of them are underpowered in RvR.

In General, achieving a positive solo kill to death ratio is extremely difficult, due to the fact that you rarely have 1v1's without adds.

alusetta did all the rp with killing low lvls, not really a meaningful example.....

Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:26 PM by Nunki

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:16 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 8:40 AM
Shortee wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 1:18 AM
And I challenge you - post your name so I can see all these kills you claim you have...I bet your deaths are still way higher than ANY other class when comparing X times you died to reach RR6. You know everything I say is true you just must have a ranger or a infi/nightshade and you still want the easy kills...

Rofl.

A. Learn to quote properly and people may answers your questions.

B. Answer questions before you ask questions. I asked for your spec / playstyle and several other factors that might help to improve your playstyle but you are obviously scared to provide any Information. You either know that you can't play and/or you prefer troll/flame over improvement.

C. Why are there RR10 Hunters with a posivite solo kill to death ratio?
Take Alusetta (Gratz to RR10 btw, amazing stats):
solo kills: 3673
total kills: 6846
deaths: 941

Hunter unplayable?

Regarding your questions if anyone ever got invited to HoH.
Stealthers in general are no PvM classes and have never been.
There are many classes nobody wants in HoH/DS and nearly none of them are underpowered in RvR.

In General, achieving a positive solo kill to death ratio is extremely difficult, due to the fact that you rarely have 1v1's without adds.

alusetta did all the rp with killing low lvls, not really a meaningful example.....

Agreed.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:50 PM by Tillbeast

End of the day there will be the most powerful class to the least powerful class. The hunter is not the best but by no means the least. Every class has an advantage over its opposing realms equivelant. For example a scout is arguably the worst of the 3 archer class...unless its in a siege situation perched on a rampart raining the heaviest damage and furthest reaching arrows onto its enemies, where it becomes the best. Archery as a whole is not great on pheonix which harms the scout more than the other two archers as both a ranger and a hunter have decent melee capability. Melee archers are a royal pain in the neck for assassins due to superior hit points and RA's like IP and Toughness although the assassin is prob still slight favourite but its not a given that they will win.

Remember this is a team game not a dueling simulation, 1 on 1 you will lose to a lot of classes and there are better 1 on 1 classes than a hunter but 3 assassins can not disrupt/annoy enemy casters as easily as 3 hunters.

I think you are looking for a class that just wtfpwns others that requires little skill...well a hib caster is prob more to your taste and a hib caster played by a skilled player is a complete nightmare just as most classes are if played well.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 6:30 PM by Spiegal

To be frank, the good days were you could snipe as a solo is gone. Mostly because now everyone runs wit 99-100% quality template with max physical resist.
The archers became nerf over time because of the knowledge and evolution of the game.
And in case of this server, the hp increase works against the sniper way.

Most of the successful archers went melee to have more arsenal and less dependant of archery. It's just too easy to counter and less reliable than melee.
And some others started doing some stealth group.
Archery just shine really on siege or for finishers like others stated.

I recall that all the archers had their shining moment.
My best memories of daoc was with a pure ranger spec when I was duoing with my buddy. So I know that you have the nostalgia feeling (aren't we all), but I think for that class to be able to repeat the same experience would necessitate so much buffs, that it would make it OP in the end.
And it seem that in those situations, there's always few players that are able to find success by developing new strategies.
And of course by using all the tools available.

I'm sorry to say, but the "adapt or die" motto really applies here. it's a class that push you to elevate your game now and not having those easy sniper kills.
Good luck and dare I say, try to find a partner to play the class, it's more enjoyable imo.

Wed 19 Feb 2020 7:33 AM by Caralith

Hello there,

I go with Inoeth here.
I have no problems fighting others stealthers nor melee class. It's only about how you play your class that count and optimizing your charge items and procs to make the difference.

i.e that pm i received on discord from an high rr infil

Thu 20 Feb 2020 11:00 AM by Nunki

Shortee wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 11:05 AM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:11 PM
Shortee wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Feb 2020 9:12 AM
So why do i have a much better ratio on my skald? my zerk? my savage? my shaman? my warrior? - please stop trying to mislead the Devs/GMs by posting an underpowered class is 'fine how it is" - people like you ruin things for honest people like me.
This is my personal opinion. No reason to get triggered that much. Nothing personal.

Hunter is underpowered but playable, for sure not GIMP. Scout was gimp before the new shield-style was introduced (probably even after that).
Hunter could for sure need some love (as bow dmg in general needs a revamp), but again, that doesn't mean that it is unplayable.
Increased pet dmg and speed 1 is a nice thing, if used well.

I can outplay many melee stealther (same RR and RA's ready, obviously not Vanish) with my hunter, especially when I don't go full melee on them but rather kite them with proper pet-management. Which is the reason why I asked you for your spec and playstyle, but you refute to give me information on that.

Please don't compare solo kill ratios between all your melee tank/offtank chars (or shaman) and a hunter.
As you wouldn't compare any other archetype with each other, that doesn't help.

Hunter is for sure inferior regarding melee stealth fights, but by far not unplayable.

Regarding your claim I'd say all this just to make it easier for me to farm Hunters.
I played solely on Midgard and enjoyed my Hunter quite a lot.

On the other side I don't ragequit when I get shredded by a NS/Infi 3 RR's higher than me.
I am more the guy who has fun kiting them to death as the situation warrants.

Have a good time and don't take it too serious.

You try to wash thge entire subject with "Please don't compare solo kill ratios between all your melee tank/offtank chars (or shaman) and a hunter.
As you wouldn't compare any other archetype with each other, that doesn't help." That is the problem - when compared hunters are very very weak - end of story!

Very Very weak is just wrong.

Weak compared to WHAT?
Scout? No!
Ranger? Yes!

Any other melee character including melee stealther?
YES, but thats how it is supposed to be.

Bow-classes are not meant to be the best (or even compareable) melee characters.
Thats what melee characters are for.

As a hunter you have kite potential and a pet (with speed 1, increased dmg, etc.).

IF AT ALL, the problem with Hunter (and Scout) is that MOS got changed and See Hidden doesn't exist anymore.
As a result, they are forced into melee situations with NS/Infi most of the time without the option to open up the fight with a Crit Shot or to kite.
But thats seems a problem with bow-classes in general, somehow excluding Ranger, because they are extremely potent as a melee class.

As I said multiple times, a slight buff for Hunter (and a huge one for Scout) would be justified.

Due to the fact that you never talked about general changes to eg. bow damage or MoS/SeeHidden-mechanics and ALWAYS focus on the Hunter class itself,
which is absolutely unplayable and VERY VERY WEAK according to what you say.

Which changes to the Hunter class would you recommend to even out the playfield?

Thu 20 Feb 2020 11:20 AM by Tillbeast

When are people going to realise that this game is not balanced around 1v1 nor 8v8. It's balanced around large scale battles. A scout (along with other characters) is not balanced around 1v1 and in a 1v1 situation is not very good. A scout role in rvr is to suppress enemy casters and to protect their own casters. They do this better than either a hunter and a ranger. To balance this hunters are given more melee dps. They can help protect there realm mate's with positional melee styles where scouts have anytime styles and to compensate for the scouts superior range to interrupt they get a pet which is not ad reliable. A ranger has positional styles like the hunter but only has a bow for ranged interrupt. They get superior melee dps over both hunter and scout and bows slower than a hunter but not as slow as a scout. Yes a hunter and ranger are superior solo than a scout but a scout is so much better in a group. Problem is players think leeching and adding is wrong but it's wrong not do so it's just players try to change the game to how they want to play not how it's was designed. Playing 1v1 and 8v8 is fine but if you play a class not designed to be good in those situations don't complain. I have seen scout players play solo well it's just not as easy as other classes

Thu 20 Feb 2020 11:48 AM by necrolove1

DAOC is not a 1v1 game and shouldn't be balanced to be as such.

Some classes just aren't as good as others 1v1 but excell better in other areas grouped.

Having said that hunters are pretty good

Fri 21 Feb 2020 9:41 PM by Tillbeast

Shortee wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Feb 2020 9:16 PM
Tillbeast wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Feb 2020 11:20 AM
When are people going to realise that this game is not balanced around 1v1 nor 8v8. It's balanced around large scale battles. A scout (along with other characters) is not balanced around 1v1 and in a 1v1 situation is not very good. A scout role in rvr is to suppress enemy casters and to protect their own casters. They do this better than either a hunter and a ranger. To balance this hunters are given more melee dps. They can help protect there realm mate's with positional melee styles where scouts have anytime styles and to compensate for the scouts superior range to interrupt they get a pet which is not ad reliable. A ranger has positional styles like the hunter but only has a bow for ranged interrupt. They get superior melee dps over both hunter and scout and bows slower than a hunter but not as slow as a scout. Yes a hunter and ranger are superior solo than a scout but a scout is so much better in a group. Problem is players think leeching and adding is wrong but it's wrong not do so it's just players try to change the game to how they want to play not how it's was designed. Playing 1v1 and 8v8 is fine but if you play a class not designed to be good in those situations don't complain. I have seen scout players play solo well it's just not as easy as other classes

A hunter is not sought after in groups, therefore is forced into 1v1 the mjority of the time. And when that is against Infis, Scouts, Rangers, NS, etc - they all have access to the type of damage that hunters are vulnerable too. Most of them are vulnerable to crush which hunters do not have access to hammers - while they can get a shot off or 2, they will die in 1v1 the overwhelming vast majority of the time. They are frustrating to play and I have literally cried after 30 deaths w no kills w/realm mates bitching at me for adding. You want to make QOL better??? Fix Hunters!!!!!

Sorry but a hunter should never lose to a scout unless scout is at extreme range and hunter decides to try close gap. To kill assassins you have to spec different, both in RA and Spec choices and both hunters and rangers make great assassin hunters, purge and Ignore pain are your freinds. Hunters, Scouts and Rangers are frustrating to play not becaus they are bad but they are harder to play....they are not like casters who just spam 1 or 2 buttons to nuke things down. Positioning and situational awareness is so much more important to an archer than it is to a caster dps. No archer or assassin is sought after in groups except from other stealthers and remember the game is not balanced for 1v1. Team up with a shadowblade and have fun with the rear stun spear style. Ignore people saying you are adding, just tell them the game is red vs red not a duelling simulator, you kill albs and hibs on sight. Sometimes you can perform vital duties and not even get a kill, activate rapid fire and interupt multiple casters, no class type can interupt more casters quicker than a archer plinking arrows off at silly speed. Most importantly persevere and learn the class and I will repeat they are difficult and frustrating classes to play but if you were for say increase archery damage archer classes can easily become overpowered due to the ability to pick there fights due to stealth.....imagine giving runies or wizards stealth....cannot nor should ever happen for balance sake.

Go check up you tube you will find videos of hunters doing well.

To reply to the post you just made....where are the hunters easy kills? Well hib casters are pretty straight forward as are most casters...you engage in melee and purge there qc root or mez...yep you will lose if your daft enough to engage at range where they can cast quicker than you and interupt your archery thats why all archers have a spec for a melee style. A hunter vs a ranger is virtually 50/50, your spear does more damage plus you have a pet but they have twice the chance of weapon procs plus a damage add. If an assassin misses there opening attack hunter just got too much hp for the sin plus if you get the jump on assassin they will struggle. I am an average player at best prob not even that and my record with a 90% of the time solo hunter is 542 all time kills of which 293 were solo. Just took me quite a time to learn the class.

Fri 21 Feb 2020 9:54 PM by Riac

Shortee wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 11:05 AM
If you really want to know what i'd do - it would be to increase everything until hunters are just as enjoyable as any other class in any realm period!

well, good thing you were specific. def dont see how this could be considered subjective in any sort of way. also, they reduced the dmg malice on the armor tables, its not nearly as bad as it used to be (although, it does seem weird that hib/alb leather is blunt vulnerable). youre also making hunter out to be A LOT weaker than it actually is. tbh though idk why ppl are playing bow classes here and still surprised to find out that the experience is not enjoyable enough for them. its almost like the idea of a bow class being able to wreck you @ range from invisibility is not enjoyed by most ppl and would rather not have to put up with that shit.

youre just making excuses for adding on ppls fights in most of this post. poor me, i suck and cant kill anything give me some of yours. when you add on 1v1 fights you ruin the fun of two ppl for your enjoyment. quite selfish when you think about it.

Sat 22 Feb 2020 2:50 AM by Riac

Shortee wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 12:30 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Feb 2020 9:54 PM
Shortee wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Feb 2020 11:05 AM
If you really want to know what i'd do - it would be to increase everything until hunters are just as enjoyable as any other class in any realm period!

well, good thing you were specific. def dont see how this could be considered subjective in any sort of way. also, they reduced the dmg malice on the armor tables, its not nearly as bad as it used to be (although, it does seem weird that hib/alb leather is blunt vulnerable). youre also making hunter out to be A LOT weaker than it actually is. tbh though idk why ppl are playing bow classes here and still surprised to find out that the experience is not enjoyable enough for them. its almost like the idea of a bow class being able to wreck you @ range from invisibility is not enjoyed by most ppl and would rather not have to put up with that shit.

youre just making excuses for adding on ppls fights in most of this post. poor me, i suck and cant kill anything give me some of yours. when you add on 1v1 fights you ruin the fun of two ppl for your enjoyment. quite selfish when you think about it.

Completely disagree. The selfish part is ANYONE saying "don't attack my enemy" especially when the classes are not balanced and say for example a necro vs anything solo or a bd vs anything solo...i really don't care how you interpret my posts - you read it as i am saying "I suck, poor me, blah blah blah" doesn't mean i felt that as typing it. You put that in for me without anything of my doing. Its ok. Other classes can have there easy kills and hunters are part of that for everyone else to have a more enjoyable experience in the game than the hunter class - As far as I am concerned - for it to be "normal" that any class be that much less enjoyable means I will never ever donate...after all why would I pay for less enjoyment than others?

Thats why I quit live (wouldn't pay for imbalance) and that is why i wont donate (wont pay for imbalance) - go have your selfish 1v1 fights where you are for yourself and only yourself trying to get x number of solo kills while the weaker classes (that have a much harder time killing anything) just get frustrated. Yep im selfish - i want the enjoyment shared lol you 1v1 and 8v8 people measure things based on a video game - i doubt you have any other talent!

you must be confused. no one here is donating nor will the mods allow you to donate, it would open them up to lawsuits. so that whole line of thinking should just go right out the window.

hunter is not a bad class, there are plenty of things that you can kill easily, if youre having problems vs easy targets then my guess is that the problem is somewhere between the screen and the chair your sitting in.

the guy crying on the internet is claiming everyone else is lacking content in their lives lol.

Sat 22 Feb 2020 8:52 AM by Tillbeast

Shortee no offense but the more I read your comments the more apparant its more a learn to play your class issue. You want to know some easy classes to kill on your hunter? Enchanter, Eldricht, Mentalist, Scout, Theurgist and most other casters. You cant just just wtf pwn them but once you know how to its very easy (tip use your pet to interupt and to break BT. Then set pet to passive so its not in combat and crit shot caster and rapid fire to finish tada!!! On dead caster who has had to waste his QC on your pet else be permanenty interrupted). The most important thing with hunters is your position...you need to be over 1500 to be out of most cc range but in enough range that they cant run out but you do have tools to get back into range. Chanters and other pet classes are a little more tricky as there pet can get to you but you have speed boost to get into melee if needed. Your biggest threat however will be nearsight but hunter has melee ability and speed boost. I agree with you other classes can kill easier but its not exactly hard as a hunter when you target the correct classes.

Also if you not finding playing a hunter fun try something else. I do, my Eldrictch and Enchanter kill twice as many enemies as my archers do but I found them boring and far to easy to play...stun..nuke..nuke...nuke. You don't have to take much into consideration. If you just want an easy mode character that is easy to play don't play a hunter. Myself and other archers like the fact we can make it work and enjoy the challenge the class sets over other classes.

The biggest issue is though finding the solo casters and the life of a stealthers especially archers requires patience as you choose your fight. Adding and leeching is fine, the game is designed around that so dont worry when the so called elitist complain, yeah a good 1 vs 1 is fun but its not how the game was designed. As I said before characters are not balanced around 1v1 there are many characters better than a hunter in a solo situation and a hunters number of easy kills is lower than others. The game is designed around mass combat and keep taking, if you were to change any class to improve its solo capability its effects on how the game is supposed to be played could be rather drastic. Go read EA's original desription of the hunter, it actually states the class is designed to get behind enemy lines and interrupt enemy players which a hunter can do really well allowing the better dps classes to do there job better of actually killing them. I think once you acknowledge that the hunter (along with many other classes) is not the best solo class and requires more skill to play well you will be fine. Also always bear in mind the game is about mass combat and in mass combat nobody notices the tiny kobby raining arrows onto enemy casters whose attention is on the troll bearing down on them or enemy caster raining fire on them.

Good luck and go kill some hibbies!!!

Sat 22 Feb 2020 10:39 AM by Riac

Shortee wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 7:02 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 2:50 AM
Shortee wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 12:30 AM
Completely disagree. The selfish part is ANYONE saying "don't attack my enemy" especially when the classes are not balanced and say for example a necro vs anything solo or a bd vs anything solo...i really don't care how you interpret my posts - you read it as i am saying "I suck, poor me, blah blah blah" doesn't mean i felt that as typing it. You put that in for me without anything of my doing. Its ok. Other classes can have there easy kills and hunters are part of that for everyone else to have a more enjoyable experience in the game than the hunter class - As far as I am concerned - for it to be "normal" that any class be that much less enjoyable means I will never ever donate...after all why would I pay for less enjoyment than others?

Thats why I quit live (wouldn't pay for imbalance) and that is why i wont donate (wont pay for imbalance) - go have your selfish 1v1 fights where you are for yourself and only yourself trying to get x number of solo kills while the weaker classes (that have a much harder time killing anything) just get frustrated. Yep im selfish - i want the enjoyment shared lol you 1v1 and 8v8 people measure things based on a video game - i doubt you have any other talent!

you must be confused. no one here is donating nor will the mods allow you to donate, it would open them up to lawsuits. so that whole line of thinking should just go right out the window.

hunter is not a bad class, there are plenty of things that you can kill easily, if youre having problems vs easy targets then my guess is that the problem is somewhere between the screen and the chair your sitting in.

the guy crying on the internet is claiming everyone else is lacking content in their lives lol.

What you interpret as crying, i believe to be factual. When you say hunters are fine - i believe you are lying through your teeth to keep you easy kills...

Name one class thats an easy kill for hunters - all things being equal lvl 50 vs lvl 50, that a hunter has a good chance to run into solo. Just one...and i'll tell you their advantage over a hunter!

Yep its all my fault! FUCK OFF YOU LIAR!

as a hunter, pretty much any caster in the whole game (maybe not necros lol). once you reach a certain RR, you should be able to kill most sins under you no problem.

have you tried crying and sucking less? that will go a long ways tbh.

Sat 22 Feb 2020 9:11 PM by Pao

Hunter are fine, rangers too. Only scouts are still gimp. They don't do enough dmg 1h and have no gimmicks. Stun is purged and the new root won't help them because ppl will cast, through weapons or use bow. Even if you can shoot once it goes back to your no dmg melee suffering. They only win if they use all their ras.

Sun 23 Feb 2020 12:00 AM by gotwqqd

Pao wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 9:11 PM
Hunter are fine, rangers too. Only scouts are still gimp. They don't do enough dmg 1h and have no gimmicks. Stun is purged and the new root won't help them because ppl will cast, through weapons or use bow. Even if you can shoot once it goes back to your no dmg melee suffering. They only win if they use all their ras.

Agree
But I would prefer that archery is buffed somehow so ...
A. Scouts are decent
B. Rangers/Hunters can increase archery effectiveness while mitigating their melee/pet damages

This may mean that their melee damages need to be scaled to make multiple spec types an option

Mon 24 Feb 2020 10:01 AM by Nunki

Shortee wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Feb 2020 9:28 PM
If you really want to know what i'd do - it would be to increase everything until hunters are just as enjoyable as any other class in any realm period!

ROFL! After that comment, I can't take you seriously anymore. Git gud.

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Feb 2020 12:00 AM
Pao wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Feb 2020 9:11 PM
Hunter are fine, rangers too. Only scouts are still gimp. They don't do enough dmg 1h and have no gimmicks. Stun is purged and the new root won't help them because ppl will cast, through weapons or use bow. Even if you can shoot once it goes back to your no dmg melee suffering. They only win if they use all their ras.

Agree
But I would prefer that archery is buffed somehow so ...
A. Scouts are decent
B. Rangers/Hunters can increase archery effectiveness while mitigating their melee/pet damages

This may mean that their melee damages need to be scaled to make multiple spec types an option

Agreed.

I would love to see higher bow damage with higher bow spec, or as an alternative, see hidden ability with 50 bow.

Thu 27 Feb 2020 8:31 AM by Nunki

Shortee wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Feb 2020 8:17 AM
Liars! Nothing but Liars...

Please tell me you are a troll, everything else would be too sad.

Thu 27 Feb 2020 8:54 AM by Nunki

Shortee wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Feb 2020 8:44 AM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Feb 2020 8:31 AM
Shortee wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Feb 2020 8:17 AM
Liars! Nothing but Liars...
Please tell me you are a troll, everything else would be too sad.

I am too old to understand what a troll actually is. I tell what i believe to be the truth. I do not believe in unfair things in life for anyone. I am a type 1 diabetic. I take 4-6 shots a day to prevent getting sick and ending up in the hospital. I also suffer from depression (which is not uncommon for type 1 diabetics). I come to the internet for games and fun. I do not mean to whine, complain or as you say troll...I only aim to point out what I see as flaws. I apologize for my perspectives - they can be from a dark area. Never mean to cause anyone harm or problems. Good luck and have fun! I find it hard to have fun in rvr when things are not balanced - its just the way i see it. Go ahead, make fun of me some more...i've come to expect it...from everyone.

Honest reply. Thanks for that.
I wish you all the best.

We can duo with our hunters for some runs, if you want.
Maibe we find aspects of the class you didn't take into consideration before.

Have a good time!