Something strange with the SM Lifeleech?

i often saw SM leech many life with the lev 47 spec nuke , but had no proof . now i saw a youtube video and saw he steals more life than he hit for .
min 1.21 - hit for 345 -- steal 381
min 2.45 - hit for 400 -- steal 421
min 3.10 - hit for 267 -- steal 278
min 3.41 - hit for 267 -- steal 280

only four examples of this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBTI3BJdfZ0

im maybe not that good in math but 90% of damage dealed cant be more than the hit

Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:35 AM by vxr

It seems that their is variance in the lifesteal.

Look at this screenshot from just today
295 dmg
265 steal
295 * 0.9 = 265.5

But then another attack stole a different amount, but did the same damage.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:57 AM by Schnuwe

but whats the point of a variance in 90% of damage dealed ? if i can get variance the explaining should be " some life of the dealed damage" or am i wrong?

Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:48 AM by vxr

Schnuwe wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 1:57 AM
but whats the point of a variance in 90% of damage dealed ? if i can get variance the explaining should be " some life of the dealed damage" or am i wrong?

Ya, I agree.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 3:31 AM by

gruenesschaf

Lifedrain has a variance of 100 - 125% for the returned value, in case of a 90% return that would be damage * 0.9 * random(1, 1.25)

Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:19 PM by Lillebror

Why on earth do they get a variance on the 90% return?
90% is just that.... 90%.

You can instead put them on par with Sorc and Cab and reduce them to 60%

Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:36 PM by Razur Ur

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 3:31 AM
Lifedrain has a variance of 100 - 125% for the returned value, in case of a 90% return that would be damage * 0.9 * random(1, 1.25)

this video is a good example to show how broken this sm with pet intercept ist. why your staff doing nothing? sm can free casting while the melee hits catching
the pet? lets sm get interrupt if intercept catching the melee hits and all is fine but this crazy life leech and free moc vs all melee characters is a joke atm.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:49 PM by thirian24

Pet intercept is only something that people have been complaining about forever now. It's horribly broken... yet.. we get an HP increase for ALL.. that I never seen anybody asking for.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:55 PM by Razur Ur

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:49 PM
Pet intercept is only something that people have been complaining about forever now. It's horribly broken... yet.. we get an HP increase for ALL.. that I never seen anybody asking for.

not the intercept is the problem, but that the sm receives no interrupt and can just cast on it is a big problem and the pet get to low trought intercept.

Wed 20 Nov 2019 9:50 AM by Nunki

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:36 PM
sm can free casting while the melee hits catching the pet?

Nah, 70% is quite high but for sure not "free casting" or "free moc". Throw in a dd-charge (or any cast) and things change fast.

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:36 PM
lets sm get interrupt if intercept catching the melee hits and all is fine but this crazy life leech and free moc vs all melee characters is a joke atm.

Yeah sure, lets change the whole intercept mechanic in a way it never worked before just because ONE class has a 1v1 advantage vs another type of character.

If we follow your "Wow, one character can easily beat another character in 1v1 lets nerf it."-logic we may also need to nerf most of the other classes (Necro, Minstrel, any melee stealther, pd bd, all hib stun caster, bm and so on) just due to the fact that they will most likely win vs another archetype if played well.

You simply don't attack an sm as a pure melee character, as smart melee stealthers won't attack a necro / pd bd (same RR) / full tanks or most casters won't attack a minstrel (in most situations) and so on.

Not saying that SM isn't strong and may need some adjustment but your points are out of context and absolutely exaggerated.

Wed 20 Nov 2019 10:26 AM by Razur Ur

Nunki wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Nov 2019 9:50 AM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:36 PM
sm can free casting while the melee hits catching the pet?
Nah, 70% is quite high but for sure not "free casting" or "free moc". Throw in a dd-charge (or any cast) and things change fast.

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:36 PM
lets sm get interrupt if intercept catching the melee hits and all is fine but this crazy life leech and free moc vs all melee characters is a joke atm.
Yeah sure, lets change the whole intercept mechanic in a way it never worked before just because ONE class has a 1v1 advantage vs another type of character.

If we follow your "Wow, one character can easily beat another character in 1v1 lets nerf it."-logic we may also need to nerf most of the other classes (Necro, Minstrel, any melee stealther, pd bd, all hib stun caster, bm and so on) just due to the fact that they will most likely win vs another archetype if played well.

You simply don't attack an sm as a pure melee character, as smart melee stealthers won't attack a necro / pd bd (same RR) / full tanks or most casters won't attack a minstrel (in most situations) and so on.

Not saying that SM isn't strong and may need some adjustment but your points are out of context and absolutely exaggerated.

Haha you think rly hib caster stun is op? thx for your sinless post.

PS: and look this video the sm casting all time without interrupt while the melees attack him!

Thu 21 Nov 2019 10:00 PM by Lillebror

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Nov 2019 10:26 AM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Nov 2019 9:50 AM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:36 PM
sm can free casting while the melee hits catching the pet?
Nah, 70% is quite high but for sure not "free casting" or "free moc". Throw in a dd-charge (or any cast) and things change fast.

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:36 PM
lets sm get interrupt if intercept catching the melee hits and all is fine but this crazy life leech and free moc vs all melee characters is a joke atm.
Yeah sure, lets change the whole intercept mechanic in a way it never worked before just because ONE class has a 1v1 advantage vs another type of character.

If we follow your "Wow, one character can easily beat another character in 1v1 lets nerf it."-logic we may also need to nerf most of the other classes (Necro, Minstrel, any melee stealther, pd bd, all hib stun caster, bm and so on) just due to the fact that they will most likely win vs another archetype if played well.

You simply don't attack an sm as a pure melee character, as smart melee stealthers won't attack a necro / pd bd (same RR) / full tanks or most casters won't attack a minstrel (in most situations) and so on.

Not saying that SM isn't strong and may need some adjustment but your points are out of context and absolutely exaggerated.

Haha you think rly hib caster stun is op? thx for your sinless post.

PS: and look this video the sm casting all time without interrupt while the melees attack him!

I will give Razur a +1 on this. Hib caster stun is worth Jack shit with out debuff vs anything comeing towards you sprinting.

Thu 21 Nov 2019 10:10 PM by Runental

Why the hell should you've been interrupted when your pet takes the blow and not you.
There is no logic behind.
You take no damage = no interrupt, simple as that.

Fri 22 Nov 2019 7:52 AM by Sepplord

Runental wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Nov 2019 10:10 PM
Why the hell should you've been interrupted when your pet takes the blow and not you.
There is no logic behind.
You take no damage = no interrupt, simple as that.

Not saying it should be changed, it would be a huge blaance-change that might not be neccesary.

But regarding "logic": resist/debuffs and other non-damage spells interuppt too.
The SM being interuppted because he is being attacked in melee and that irritates/distracts him from his cast, even if the pet intercepts in the last second wouldn't be far fetched...

but as always, logic should not influence balancedecisions anyways. It's a fantasy-videogame

Fri 22 Nov 2019 8:46 AM by Razur Ur

Runental wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Nov 2019 10:10 PM
Why the hell should you've been interrupted when your pet takes the blow and not you.
There is no logic behind.
You take no damage = no interrupt, simple as that.

rly you asking after logic by DAOC ? another ask you get interrupt with your caster if any melee attack hit in the bladeturn from your caster?

Fri 22 Nov 2019 9:32 AM by Nunki

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 7:52 AM
Runental wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Nov 2019 10:10 PM
Why the hell should you've been interrupted when your pet takes the blow and not you.
There is no logic behind.
You take no damage = no interrupt, simple as that.

Not saying it should be changed, it would be a huge blaance-change that might not be neccesary.

But regarding "logic": resist/debuffs and other non-damage spells interuppt too.
The SM being interuppted because he is being attacked in melee and that irritates/distracts him from his cast, even if the pet intercepts in the last second wouldn't be far fetched...

but as always, logic should not influence balancedecisions anyways. It's a fantasy-videogame

Melee interrupt mechanics never worked like that. Neither for guard nor intercept (which is what sm pets do).
As I said, some balancing would be nice. Changing the way essential features work, just because one character is strong is dangerous.
If you can't concentrate properly when someone gets close you are no real caster.

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Nov 2019 10:26 AM
Haha you think rly hib caster stun is op? thx for your sinless post.

PS: and look this video the sm casting all time without interrupt while the melees attack him!

You didn't understand the Intention of my post entirely.
Hib stun is nice and provides an advantage in most 1v1 situations against non-Det / non-Purge enemies but it is not OP.
Same with SM intercept. Balance it a little? Sure. Completely rework intercept mechanics? NO.

Regarding your PS:
13 seconds after the video starts, the SM got interrupted via melee attack (by a Minstrel with low ws).
The Minstrel could have perma rupted him with instas, but he bursted them all at once.

Guys, SM pet intercept works like this for nearly 20 years. Intercept rate may be a bit high, was later on nerfed and the nerf got compensated with help of some buffs (as far as I remember).

Again, if you willingly INC an SM while playing a full melee character, it is your own fault and quite predictable that you loose.
Ranged stealther also usually expect to die if they attack shield wearing melees.

One character winning / loosing vs a certain archetype is no proof that those one character is OP.

Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:08 AM by Razur Ur

i give you right and anything must be change with intercepting from sm pet and give three scenaries for changing the first one high base dmg for melees for faster
drop down caster/pet, second the intercepting get per hit interrupt by caster and third is intercepting rate reduce between 30% til 40 % ( i dont know how high this
intercepting rate is atm).

this is my personal opinion and sorry i didnt want mad or something but i writing most time with heart and feeling ^_^ as daoc gamer and sorry my english is
fucking bad and hope the most guys understand me what i typing.

Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:29 AM by Butzinjo

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:19 PM
Why on earth do they get a variance on the 90% return?
90% is just that.... 90%.

You can instead put them on par with Sorc and Cab and reduce them to 60%

Oh yes, good idea, let us compare Base- with Spec-Nukes

. I don´t know
much about alb but looking into the charplan says, you can have an 90% DMG return on Caba too.

I don´t play SM and it´s right, there is something strange with a variance on a "DMG-Return"
but your last sentence is..., sorry.

Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:42 AM by Lillebror

Butzinjo wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:29 AM
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:19 PM
Why on earth do they get a variance on the 90% return?
90% is just that.... 90%.

You can instead put them on par with Sorc and Cab and reduce them to 60%

Oh yes, good idea, let us compare Base- with Spec-Nukes . I don´t know
much about alb but looking into the charplan says, you can have an 90% DMG return on Caba too.

I don´t play SM and it´s right, there is something strange with a variance on a "DMG-Return"
but your last sentence is..., sorry.

Your correct, i missed it due to either trispec, or spirit spec ever get that high in Body. You see many body cabs out there? you might find a body sorc but that have no LT

Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:46 AM by Lillebror

Hib stun is nice and provides an advantage in most 1v1 situations against non-Det / non-Purge enemies but it is not OP.
Same with SM intercept. Balance it a little? Sure. Completely rework intercept mechanics? NO.

Non-det /non-purge enemies? you farming expers at relic gate?

Fri 22 Nov 2019 11:38 AM by Butzinjo

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:42 AM
Butzinjo wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:29 AM
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 2:19 PM
Why on earth do they get a variance on the 90% return?
90% is just that.... 90%.

You can instead put them on par with Sorc and Cab and reduce them to 60%

Oh yes, good idea, let us compare Base- with Spec-Nukes . I don´t know
much about alb but looking into the charplan says, you can have an 90% DMG return on Caba too.

I don´t play SM and it´s right, there is something strange with a variance on a "DMG-Return"
but your last sentence is..., sorry.

Your correct, i missed it due to either trispec, or spirit spec ever get that high in Body. You see many body cabs out there? you might find a body sorc but that have no LT

I think i wont, mainly because of the body-debuff. How i said, i don´t know much about Alb, i never played there. All i wanna say is, you should not compare
a Base- with a Spec-Nuke with the Meta-Spec in mind. So maybe you wont have a 60% Base-LL on a Sup-Speced SM, could be funny to play.
Hope you understand what i mean. What i learnd from playing daoc for many years is, the grass in my neighbours backyard is always greener.

And while reading your last post, i think we both want the same.
If the intercept mechanic is broken (maybe the rate) it should be fixed
otherwise like nunki said i think it works as intented.

Fri 22 Nov 2019 11:52 AM by Lillebror

Butzinjo wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 11:38 AM
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:42 AM
Butzinjo wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:29 AM
Oh yes, good idea, let us compare Base- with Spec-Nukes . I don´t know
much about alb but looking into the charplan says, you can have an 90% DMG return on Caba too.

I don´t play SM and it´s right, there is something strange with a variance on a "DMG-Return"
but your last sentence is..., sorry.

Your correct, i missed it due to either trispec, or spirit spec ever get that high in Body. You see many body cabs out there? you might find a body sorc but that have no LT

I think i wont, mainly because of the body-debuff. How i said, i don´t know much about Alb, i never played there. All i wanna say is, you should not compare
a Base- with a Spec-Nuke with the Meta-Spec in mind. So maybe you wont have a 60% Base-LL on a Sup-Speced SM, could be funny to play.
Hope you understand what i mean. What i learnd from playing daoc for many years is, the grass in my neighbours backyard is always greener.

And while reading your last post, i think we both want the same.
If the intercept mechanic is broken (maybe the rate) it should be fixed
otherwise like nunki said i think it works as intented.

Yeah its not the dmg or LT percent that is the issue its the damn intercept, combined with all the stuff thats probably ok each on its own

Fri 22 Nov 2019 11:53 AM by Lillebror

Of mids 3 casters, 2 of them is harder to Take down than most tanks in melee.

In mid caster aint equal to soft target.

Fri 22 Nov 2019 12:12 PM by Sepplord

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 11:53 AM
Of mids 3 casters, 2 of them is harder to Take down than most tanks in melee.

In mid caster aint equal to soft target.

yet, when someone says "castergroup" midgard is the last realm that appears in peoples minds

maybe something to do with that only being true in 1vs1 situations too

Fri 22 Nov 2019 1:26 PM by Lillebror

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 12:12 PM
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 11:53 AM
Of mids 3 casters, 2 of them is harder to Take down than most tanks in melee.

In mid caster aint equal to soft target.

yet, when someone says "castergroup" midgard is the last realm that appears in peoples minds

maybe something to do with that only being true in 1vs1 situations too

All targets get melted when focused down by a tank train or caster debuff train. but BD and SM together with Necro is an own class in solo/small man for survivability as a caster. Animists are retard too but at least they die (you with them)

Fri 22 Nov 2019 2:20 PM by Nunki

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:42 AM
Your correct, i missed it due to either trispec, or spirit spec ever get that high in Body. You see many body cabs out there? you might find a body sorc but that have no LT

SM can't even tri-spec and be playable as for example a Cab.
Body Sorc has a specced 209.7 DD, where does SM get that?

Stop comparing different classes in DAoC. Never worked in 20 years! If you think it works like that, you must be new.

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:46 AM
Non-det /non-purge enemies? you farming expers at relic gate?

It happens that purge is not ready.