HP Boost. - Phoenix Freeshard

I regularly hop on to play casters mostly through the week. Solo now and then also with pot buffs, all rather standard.

although 8x nukes at 340dmg to get a skald to 1% and then pop an IP amongst other tactics which a good player would use,

how are casters meant to compete there?

lets say you introduce the alch intel charges back into the game, I think this woul even it out a little?

Thu 14 Nov 2019 11:15 PM by ExcretusMaximus

The entire point of the change was to slow down caster time to kill (due to the BS that is debuff trains), it's working as intended.

Thu 14 Nov 2019 11:24 PM by Forlornhope

The point of the hp boost was to counter the caster meta, it's working as intended. You should not be able to burst down a tank/off-tank in a few shots, especially on a solo caster with combo pot. Adding something back in like a higher acuity charge would defeat the purpose of this.

Fri 15 Nov 2019 7:00 AM by sleeve

Congrats, you broke the game

Fri 15 Nov 2019 7:15 AM by Razur Ur

sleeve wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Nov 2019 7:00 AM
Congrats, you broke the game

Rly you whining because of losing with caster vs hybrid off tank skald? Guys how like you broken this game with joining fucking easy mode train. And plz say us
what for a caster you play?

Fri 15 Nov 2019 7:37 AM by Sepplord

imo he has a point though...

the problematic "meta" was caster-debuff-trains.
not solo-casters
solo-casters weren't much around anyways and surely didn't need a nerf
and off all casters and their playstyles, i believe the debuff-trains in fullgroups are the least effected / can play around the higher HP much better than the average casterplayer can

It also changes loads of other interactions, nerfs some classes more than other, increases TTK in ALL matchups etc...

I really doubt that the sole intention behind this change was only to target caster-debuff-trains. Especially since melee-damage got nerfed in the same patch.
Despite some people believing it, the staff isn't stupid or ignorant. They know that changes influence loads of different things and that a general HP increase across the board has lots of different effects. They couldn't have built this server to what it is.
I wish they would be completely open with their reasonings, but i also understand that it would probably upset even more people that might not even realise right now that they were intentionally nerfed and not only "got caught in the change"

Fri 15 Nov 2019 7:53 AM by Razur Ur

Caster should not win every solo fight vs tanks with ip and all caster with purge+moc+lt cast win every solo fight. all another caster without lt have to look it up with the hp patch.

one could also say that all casters without lt are not designed for solo battles unlike castern with lt.

By the way if a tank with ip has no chance to kill a caster solo, then you should ask yourself what else you should play a tank at all? Zerg groups prefer caster rather than tank for maximum rp leechen and 8vs8 groups are sparse.

Fri 15 Nov 2019 9:37 AM by sleeve

I knew I'd get some aggro there haha. It's unbalanced more than it was before, just gave an example. Intel charges would help a little. It's not like I said up dmg of casters that would defeat the object. moa9 druids can support this already, Shouldnt be a big issue to take that into consideration? Or perhaps someone else has a better idea?

Fri 15 Nov 2019 1:54 PM by Azrael

I think this is a bad example in general regarding this hp buff.
First it seems to be "equal" cause you almost made it and nuked him down to 1%? Further, skald has a lot of utilitie most casters are probably not a problem especially if its only a "nuker" and not a utility caster like something with ns, disease, ll+moc, or snare(pet) something like that so its probably still a easy gg for you if you play against heavy tanks or offtanks.
Not really know what else could I say for the moment just it is bad example if you want to evalute hp patch.

Fri 15 Nov 2019 3:53 PM by sleeve

The problem is not that I died in game/IP/utility whichever, im saying that 8x nukes is to much to kill a tank/hybrid/support with pot potion buffs? that is a 209delve spec nuke btw. seems to much against any player. I'm clearly alone on this one lol

Fri 15 Nov 2019 4:14 PM by Enyore

Sleeve has a point here.... there is no solo caster game on this server unless your a necro.
If its not a tank that requires 10+ nukes to be dropped (considering the casting speed and the fact that nukes do not land if they run out of range, despite being in range when you started the cast) then its sneaks reapplying dots with /switch immediately after purge = dead caster.

People might QQ about the debuff trains, but without it you cannot drop tanks on this server.

Would actually go the other way and say that this server is massively tank friendly - only viable caster combos are the debuff groups as its close to impossible to drop tanks without it (Determination reworking help a bit on this though). Not to talk about the quite long range you have on melee attacks compared to live servers back in the day.

Anyway, i play melee as main so what do i care.

Sat 16 Nov 2019 10:37 AM by Siouxsie

So a mentalist is complaining he can't stun, debuff, nuke nuke you to death in 15 seconds anymore?
Awww... that's too bad.

Sat 16 Nov 2019 6:55 PM by Enyore

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Nov 2019 10:37 AM
So a mentalist is complaining he can't stun, debuff, nuke nuke you to death in 15 seconds anymore?
Awww... that's too bad.

Yeah that's it, except Mentalist can't debuff nuke....

Such a shitty reply, the dude actually has a point here.
When was the last time you saw a caster succeed in any kind of solo play on this server that wasn't a BD or Necro?

Sat 16 Nov 2019 8:44 PM by Runental

Enyore wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Nov 2019 6:55 PM
Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Nov 2019 10:37 AM
So a mentalist is complaining he can't stun, debuff, nuke nuke you to death in 15 seconds anymore?
Awww... that's too bad.

Yeah that's it, except Mentalist can't debuff nuke....

Such a shitty reply, the dude actually has a point here.
When was the last time you saw a caster succeed in any kind of solo play on this server that wasn't a BD or Necro?

Today...
Simply mocced down this RR11 reaver

Sat 16 Nov 2019 10:44 PM by Riac

elds do pretty well solo vs stealthers, ask xpovoc. purge CD, QC mezz, and proceed to stun nuke. if they purge the mezz you might be fucked, but he comes right back because he knows purge is down lol.

Sun 17 Nov 2019 5:41 PM by Lillebror

Tanks is way to much boostwd with this change. Should have stayed as it was and instead do something with the debuff. Atm your totaly screwed without a 50% debuff

Sun 17 Nov 2019 7:03 PM by Neso

sleeve wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Nov 2019 9:37 AM
Intel charges would help a little. It's not like I said up dmg of casters that would defeat the object.

so the point of an intel charge would be what exactly...

Sun 17 Nov 2019 7:07 PM by Runental

Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Nov 2019 10:44 PM
elds do pretty well solo vs stealthers, ask xpovoc. purge CD, QC mezz, and proceed to stun nuke. if they purge the mezz you might be fucked, but he comes right back because he knows purge is down lol.

Concentration 1, Problem solved.

Sun 17 Nov 2019 7:14 PM by Neso

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Nov 2019 5:41 PM
Tanks is way to much boostwd with this change. Should have stayed as it was and instead do something with the debuff. Atm your totaly screwed without a 50% debuff

Ok, so you nerf the debuff. You're still in the same position needing more nukes to kill.
..if anything, you just screwed the debuffer and assister dps across ALL damage vs everything (casters, mobs, support, guards etc).

50% MA debuff has always been the first choice for pure dps. Anything less on a caster train would have totally screwed you anyhow.

Sun 17 Nov 2019 7:28 PM by Lillebror

before was rough when no debuffer, now is pointless alone.

Sun 17 Nov 2019 7:51 PM by Sindralor

still seing mostly debuff trains on alb / hib
seems to work out still ?

Sun 17 Nov 2019 10:55 PM by Roto23

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Nov 2019 11:15 PM
The entire point of the change was to slow down caster time to kill (due to the BS that is debuff trains), it's working as intended.

I agree. They should have just reduced the debuff amount for the caster meta

Mon 18 Nov 2019 10:34 AM by Razur Ur

Hybrid Tanks need higher base dmg ^_^.

Mon 18 Nov 2019 6:08 PM by sleeve

8 spec nukes to get a target to 1% is to much. no qq here. its that simple

Tue 19 Nov 2019 4:25 AM by daytonchambers

If you want to break the debuff nuke trains caster meta you have to do two things:

Apply the nerf that live implemented, where a debuff could no longer reduce someone to negative resistance. Max was a reduction to 0% resist and beyond that was ignored. Either that, or the debuff should reduce multiplicative so that a 50% debuff on 26%resists leaves you with 13% resist (50% of what you had before the debuff)

The second thing would be to let crafters make elemental weapons so that casters aren't the only classes that benefit from these types of groups.

Just a thought.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 6:56 AM by easytoremember

I'm pretty sure with 26/26 item bonus your resist can't reach negative already unless there are resist debuffs stacking (like spec heat debuff, heat debuff-nuke, enchanter pet debuff-nuke)

I remember it being 50% effective or less vs the item resists which will leave you at least 1%

Vs necro you reach +damage but it's due to being a mob not negative resists

Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:08 AM by daytonchambers

easytoremember wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 6:56 AM
I'm pretty sure with 26/26 item bonus your resist can't reach negative already unless there are resist debuffs stacking (like spec heat debuff, heat debuff-nuke, enchanter pet debuff-nuke)

I remember it being 50% effective or less vs the item resists which will leave you at least 1%

Vs necro you reach +damage but it's due to being a mob not negative resists

That may be the case when fully resist buffed, but if you only have resists from gear you are pushed into the negatives.

I'm seeing 416 (+26) hits from a cabby after debuff against reinforced armor which is resistant to body damage, so it is absolutely a thing.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:24 AM by Lillebror

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:08 AM
easytoremember wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 6:56 AM
I'm pretty sure with 26/26 item bonus your resist can't reach negative already unless there are resist debuffs stacking (like spec heat debuff, heat debuff-nuke, enchanter pet debuff-nuke)

I remember it being 50% effective or less vs the item resists which will leave you at least 1%

Vs necro you reach +damage but it's due to being a mob not negative resists

That may be the case when fully resist buffed, but if you only have resists from gear you are pushed into the negatives.

I'm seeing 416 (+26) hits from a cabby after debuff, so it is absolutely a thing.

Sounds like a spirit cab with 28ish body with base nuke.
Im rr4 46 light spec menta i cap at 600ish with 50% debuff

Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:34 AM by daytonchambers

sleeve wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Nov 2019 6:08 PM
8 spec nukes to get a target to 1% is to much. no qq here. its that simple

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:24 AM
Im rr4 46 light spec menta i cap at 600ish with 50% debuff

If both of you are correct: 600ish x 8 = 4800health. Pretty sure it would take a high Con raid tank fully buffed with some toughness and aug con to get health that high.

Either that, or one of you is exaggerating.

Now if you mean 8 spec nukes needed to outrun the heals being spammed on that same target then that's a whole different formula, and SHOULD take a lot of hits to take them down.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 8:00 AM by Lillebror

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:34 AM
sleeve wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Nov 2019 6:08 PM
8 spec nukes to get a target to 1% is to much. no qq here. its that simple

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:24 AM
Im rr4 46 light spec menta i cap at 600ish with 50% debuff

If both of you are correct: 600ish x 8 = 4800health. Pretty sure it would take a high Con raid tank fully buffed with some toughness and aug con to get health that high.

Either that, or one of you is exaggerating.

Now if you mean 8 spec nukes needed to outrun the heals being spammed on that same target then that's a whole different formula, and SHOULD take a lot of hits to take them down.

my cap on doll with spec nuke with out debuff is 340, then we talk 8+ hits on a tank, his point is that there is way to hard with out the debuff now.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 8:08 AM by Sepplord

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:34 AM
sleeve wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Nov 2019 6:08 PM
8 spec nukes to get a target to 1% is to much. no qq here. its that simple

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:24 AM
Im rr4 46 light spec menta i cap at 600ish with 50% debuff

If both of you are correct: 600ish x 8 = 4800health. Pretty sure it would take a high Con raid tank fully buffed with some toughness and aug con to get health that high.

Either that, or one of you is exaggerating.

Now if you mean 8 spec nukes needed to outrun the heals being spammed on that same target then that's a whole different formula, and SHOULD take a lot of hits to take them down.

600ish is CAP-damage...you don't nuke usual RvR targets for cap-dmg

Tue 19 Nov 2019 9:28 AM by easytoremember

nm found the post I was thinking of:

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:28 PM
Example against 16% buffed resist and 20% item resist with a 50 delve debuff:
50 delve debuff * 1.25 spec bonus, truncated = 62
62 - 16 = 46
46 / 2 = 23
20 - 23 = -3
-> result is -3 resist

For 50% against 26% from items and 0% buff:
50 delve debuff * 1.25 spec bonus, truncated = 62
62 / 2 = 31
26 - 31 = -5
-> result is -5 resist

While debuff is 1/2 effective against item resists the value is 1.25 the delve -_-

Tue 19 Nov 2019 3:15 PM by Horus

As someone mentioned earlier, if debuff meta was the problem then adjust that specifically. Reduce the amount or duration of the debuff.

By increasing HP across the board you gum up the works for everybody. Now you could say that everyone got a HP boost and that balances things out but the problem with that is interrupts. I can't interrupt a sword swinging at my head but my bow shot is interrupted by a strong breeze. Same for casters. But at least they have QC and can get MoC.
Even at 68 archery, 5.5 speed bow 396 dex with red dex buffs (which I rarely have) arrows barely move HP bars of the target...not to mention the added nerf in effectiveness of using armor vulnerable arrows. We have been relegated to interrupt and volley annoyance bots. High bow spec dmg was shaky at best before...now it just got worse.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 3:42 PM by romulus

Hi!
Pet classes didn't fare very well with these HP changes. I'm pretty sure the pets themselves didn't get an HP boost (IIRC, pets simply get an abs boost rather than an increase to HP pool anyway), and now that mobs are on a higher damage table, pets take a lot more damage from PvE enemies.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 5:01 PM by Sepplord

romulus wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 3:42 PM
Hi!
Pet classes didn't fare very well with these HP changes. I'm pretty sure the pets themselves didn't get an HP boost (IIRC, pets simply get an abs boost rather than an increase to HP pool anyway), and now that mobs are on a higher damage table, pets take a lot more damage from PvE enemies.

I suspect that is intentional to slightly nerf the OP petclasses in PvE
I also suspect that some matchups are intentionally passively nerfed with the HP increase. Archers started flooding the server for example, and reducing max bonus dmg to 5% instead of 10% also is a pure melee-dmg nerf. So it must be targeted at something else than just debuff-casters.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:08 PM by daytonchambers

Horus wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 3:15 PM
As someone mentioned earlier, if debuff meta was the problem then adjust that specifically. Reduce the amount or duration of the debuff.

By increasing HP across the board you gum up the works for everybody. Now you could say that everyone got a HP boost and that balances things out but the problem with that is interrupts. I can't interrupt a sword swinging at my head but my bow shot is interrupted by a strong breeze. Same for casters. But at least they have QC and can get MoC.
Even at 68 archery, 5.5 speed bow 396 dex with red dex buffs (which I rarely have) arrows barely move HP bars of the target...not to mention the added nerf in effectiveness of using armor vulnerable arrows. We have been relegated to interrupt and volley annoyance bots. High bow spec dmg was shaky at best before...now it just got worse.

Agreed. Went out to Berk yesterday and there was a SB just standing there out of stealth a bit away from the keep, likely for his defense task.

Crit him for 730 and took about 35%-39% of his health. Followed with a 370 reg shot before he simply ran out of range. He wasn't even slowed down.

Everyone can celebrate now, sniper spec archers are dead. Just one more reason to zerg up the stealther game

Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:14 PM by Riac

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:08 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 3:15 PM
As someone mentioned earlier, if debuff meta was the problem then adjust that specifically. Reduce the amount or duration of the debuff.

By increasing HP across the board you gum up the works for everybody. Now you could say that everyone got a HP boost and that balances things out but the problem with that is interrupts. I can't interrupt a sword swinging at my head but my bow shot is interrupted by a strong breeze. Same for casters. But at least they have QC and can get MoC.
Even at 68 archery, 5.5 speed bow 396 dex with red dex buffs (which I rarely have) arrows barely move HP bars of the target...not to mention the added nerf in effectiveness of using armor vulnerable arrows. We have been relegated to interrupt and volley annoyance bots. High bow spec dmg was shaky at best before...now it just got worse.

Agreed. Went out to Berk yesterday and there was a SB just standing there out of stealth a bit away from the keep, likely for his defense task.

Crit him for 730 and took about 35%-39% of his health. Followed with a 370 reg shot before he simply ran out of range. He wasn't even slowed down.

Everyone can celebrate now, sniper spec archers are dead. Just one more reason to zerg up the stealther game

thank god they are gone, now if all the ppl playing them would get a clue and just reroll.

hitting a player for 1100 before they have a clue what is going on, god forbid there is more than one (there always is), isnt exactly what i would call a "fun and interactive"

hell, casters cant even do that.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:28 PM by daytonchambers

Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:14 PM
hitting a player for 1100 before they have a clue what is going on, god forbid there is more than one (there always is), isnt exactly what i would call a "fun and interactive"

hell, casters cant even do that.

Full sniper build and shooting a target for cap damage is a hair over 1k, which is never the case in RvR vs a lvl 50 wearing armor. Any armor.

Your perf cap under the same conditions is in the 900s which you then immediately follow up with a stun. If one is OP, then both are OP

Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:37 PM by Riac

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:28 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:14 PM
hitting a player for 1100 before they have a clue what is going on, god forbid there is more than one (there always is), isnt exactly what i would call a "fun and interactive"

hell, casters cant even do that.

Full sniper build and shooting a target for cap damage is a hair over 1k, which is never the case in RvR vs a lvl 50 wearing armor. Any armor.

Your perf cap under the same conditions is in the 900s which you then immediately follow up with a stun. If one is OP, then both are OP

you said you hit that guy with 2 shots totalling 1100 dmg FROM A DISTANCE. i have never ever PAed anyone even close to 900 dmg, PA is actually pretty garbage on this serer. my normal PAs are in the 400s (thats counting the ablats that eat the majority of it everytime) and then i get to go into my cd,ss (which hit for amounts comparable to reactionary styles). the two main differences here are that im right next to that person and in extreme danger of getting my stun purged and my ass beat. you also have the benefit of distance on your side, aka the safety of distance, which you clearly value otherwise youd get right up next to that guy and open on him as to prevent him from distancing you.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 8:01 PM by daytonchambers

I have no choice but to rely on the "safety of distance" for my class. If I initiate a fight in melee range vs a true melee character I lose ten times out of ten. It's pretty common knowledge that archers are food if an assassin catches them and starts the fight up close. Deny that well-known fact and you just look stupid.

I don't have the evade rates that you do, nor do I have strong DOTs and debuffs on tap like when you cycle through your bag of pre-venomed blades. So yeah, I start the fight at range to shave off health before the melee begins for a fighting chance at a win.

Would you initiate a fight without poisons on your blades, knowing you were skipping a core DPS element of your class? Yeah, me neither.

Edit: For me it's a moot point anyways. I dumped all my ranged RAs and boosted my MoP and defensives, shifting to a sustained dps setup vs burst as the health levels make bursting someone down much more improbable now. If you though adds to fights were bad before I can only imagine that it's gotten worse now that fights take longer.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 9:42 PM by Sepplord

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:08 PM
Just one more reason to zerg up the stealther game

At which point would you consider one of the other option that don't include stealthing?

Honest question though, not hating on all stealthers. I have a RR7SB and after that played a hunter to RR4or5 before i completely quit stealthing in favor of visible chars (before i was playing half/half)

Tue 19 Nov 2019 9:52 PM by daytonchambers

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 9:42 PM
At which point would you consider one of the other option that don't include stealthing?

I have a Ranger, a Nightshade, a Mentalist, and a Hero. All are temped and capable of RvR. The point where I consider running a visible class is usually when I cant get a decent solo fight on one of my stealth classes due to albs and/or mids running in invisible packs. Which is quite a lot lately.

TBH the mentalist is my favorite class in the game it's just hardmode to solo with, which is my preferred method of play

Tue 19 Nov 2019 9:53 PM by Riac

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 8:01 PM
I have no choice but to rely on the "safety of distance" for my class. If I initiate a fight in melee range vs a true melee character I lose ten times out of ten. It's pretty common knowledge that archers are food if an assassin catches them and starts the fight up close. Deny that well-known fact and you just look stupid.

I don't have the evade rates that you do, nor do I have strong DOTs and debuffs on tap like when you cycle through your bag of pre-venomed blades. So yeah, I start the fight at range to shave off health before the melee begins for a fighting chance at a win.

Would you initiate a fight without poisons on your blades, knowing you were skipping a core DPS element of your class? Yeah, me neither.

Edit: For me it's a moot point anyways. I dumped all my ranged RAs and boosted my MoP and defensives, shifting to a sustained dps setup vs burst as the health levels make bursting someone down much more improbable now. If you though adds to fights were bad before I can only imagine that it's gotten worse now that fights take longer.

id MUCH rather the add atleast run up to in melee range. its the pinacle of annoying getting shot by 2-3 archers when im fighting a melee person and then see them whine about how their bow doesnt hit hard enough as they are chunking me for 300 per hit. if it hit any harder.....

imo if youre gonna unload on someone for 1100 in 2 hits, you should be in melee range. I think someone on here mentioned that hybrid rangers are no good and that person is crazy. sure, they wont beat me as a r9 sb but they will beat a lot of other ppl. the amount of dmg you get for speccing low bow is absurd, then you get some melee abils with IP to back that up. its very annoying. (imagine how op they were before the blades vs sb armor nerf and the ws poison fix, it was crazy)

Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:00 PM by daytonchambers

Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 9:53 PM
id MUCH rather the add atleast run up to in melee range. its the pinacle of annoying getting shot by 2-3 archers when im fighting a melee person and then see them whine about how their bow doesnt hit hard enough as they are chunking me for 300 per hit. if it hit any harder.....

How is this any more or less annoying than the adding Chanter or Cabalist debuff blasting you, or the smallman steamrollering your fight? Seems like your issue is more about fight etiquette and less about the archer classes themselves.

Personally I go out of my way to uncover and/or sit when a good fight is going down, then salute the participants before I re-stealth to find my own battle. I acknowledge the fact that my respect for the really good 1v1 fights is uncommon

Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:00 PM by Sepplord

Riac wrote: id MUCH rather the add atleast run up to in melee range. its the pinacle of annoying getting shot by 2-3 archers when im fighting a melee person and then see them whine about how their bow doesnt hit hard enough as they are chunking me for 300 per hit. if it hit any harder.....

one thing to keep in mind is also that archers are quite stealthy while shooting...
i haven't missed being nuked while fighting, i have missed being shot when in a stressful melee situation

I am not saying archers are fine, nor that they are not. Really too far away from the stealthgame currently to gauge that properly, but i felt that it would fit to Riacs comment

Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:01 PM by Riac

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 9:52 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 9:42 PM
At which point would you consider one of the other option that don't include stealthing?

I have a Ranger, a Nightshade, a Mentalist, and a Hero. All are temped and capable of RvR. The point where I consider running a visible class is usually when I cant get a decent solo fight on one of my stealth classes due to albs and/or mids running in invisible packs. Which is quite a lot lately.

TBH the mentalist is my favorite class in the game it's just hardmode to solo with, which is my preferred method of play

ment is a good soloer for a caster. 2 CCs + a pet+ heals. dont ments also get ST or something?

Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:04 PM by Riac

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:00 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 9:53 PM
id MUCH rather the add atleast run up to in melee range. its the pinacle of annoying getting shot by 2-3 archers when im fighting a melee person and then see them whine about how their bow doesnt hit hard enough as they are chunking me for 300 per hit. if it hit any harder.....

How is this any more or less annoying than the adding Chanter or Cabalist debuff blasting you, or the smallman steamrollering your fight? Seems like your issue is more about fight etiquette and less about the archer classes themselves.

Personally I go out of my way to uncover and/or sit when a good fight is going down, then salute the participants before I re-stealth to find my own battle. I acknowledge the fact that my respect for the really good 1v1 fights is uncommon

its more annoying because i can atleast see the caster running up and prepare for it. i cant prepare for the archers.

and yes fight etiquette is a huge problem of mine and on this server imo. just because you respect 1v1s doesnt mean the other archers do, imo they have the exact opposite opinion. they cry because "bow dmg is too low to kill anything solo" as if theyd solo even if it wasnt lol.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:05 PM by Riac

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:00 PM
Riac wrote: id MUCH rather the add atleast run up to in melee range. its the pinacle of annoying getting shot by 2-3 archers when im fighting a melee person and then see them whine about how their bow doesnt hit hard enough as they are chunking me for 300 per hit. if it hit any harder.....

one thing to keep in mind is also that archers are quite stealthy while shooting...
i haven't missed being nuked while fighting, i have missed being shot when in a stressful melee situation

what?

Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:08 PM by daytonchambers

Yeah the mentalist has access to Static Tempest.

There are caster classes that are even more difficult to solo with, I didn't meant to imply that the ment is at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to viable solo characters. Unfortunately mine is barely into rr3 so far and will need a lot more time to mature before I consider it to be a reliable soloer.

The boost to HP has helped in that department for sure.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 11:26 PM by easytoremember

Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:05 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:00 PM
one thing to keep in mind is also that archers are quite stealthy while shooting...
i haven't missed being nuked while fighting, i have missed being shot when in a stressful melee situation

what?

Archer doesn't show up in target until he's loosing his 2nd arrow on you, and if you're in a fight you'll see your hp suddenly dipping fast but won't even notice the arrows hitting you

For me it's usually the DoT or Cold DD that reveals I'm being shot at

Wed 20 Nov 2019 12:58 AM by Riac

easytoremember wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 11:26 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:05 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 10:00 PM
one thing to keep in mind is also that archers are quite stealthy while shooting...
i haven't missed being nuked while fighting, i have missed being shot when in a stressful melee situation

what?
Archer doesn't show up in target until he's loosing his 2nd arrow on you, and if you're in a fight you'll see your hp suddenly dipping fast but won't even notice the arrows hitting you

For me it's usually the DoT or Cold DD that reveals I'm being shot at

yea that was my point in an earlier post, but i probably diden illustrate it very well. its 1100 before you even know whats going on (assuming they get the crit on a non combat target)

Wed 20 Nov 2019 2:44 AM by gotwqqd

Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:37 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:28 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:14 PM
hitting a player for 1100 before they have a clue what is going on, god forbid there is more than one (there always is), isnt exactly what i would call a "fun and interactive"

hell, casters cant even do that.

Full sniper build and shooting a target for cap damage is a hair over 1k, which is never the case in RvR vs a lvl 50 wearing armor. Any armor.

Your perf cap under the same conditions is in the 900s which you then immediately follow up with a stun. If one is OP, then both are OP

you said you hit that guy with 2 shots totalling 1100 dmg FROM A DISTANCE. i have never ever PAed anyone even close to 900 dmg, PA is actually pretty garbage on this serer. my normal PAs are in the 400s (thats counting the ablats that eat the majority of it everytime) and then i get to go into my cd,ss (which hit for amounts comparable to reactionary styles). the two main differences here are that im right next to that person and in extreme danger of getting my stun purged and my ass beat. you also have the benefit of distance on your side, aka the safety of distance, which you clearly value otherwise youd get right up next to that guy and open on him as to prevent him from distancing you.

Distance with an archer is a double edged sword

Wed 20 Nov 2019 5:26 AM by Riac

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Nov 2019 2:44 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:37 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 7:28 PM
Full sniper build and shooting a target for cap damage is a hair over 1k, which is never the case in RvR vs a lvl 50 wearing armor. Any armor.

Your perf cap under the same conditions is in the 900s which you then immediately follow up with a stun. If one is OP, then both are OP

you said you hit that guy with 2 shots totalling 1100 dmg FROM A DISTANCE. i have never ever PAed anyone even close to 900 dmg, PA is actually pretty garbage on this serer. my normal PAs are in the 400s (thats counting the ablats that eat the majority of it everytime) and then i get to go into my cd,ss (which hit for amounts comparable to reactionary styles). the two main differences here are that im right next to that person and in extreme danger of getting my stun purged and my ass beat. you also have the benefit of distance on your side, aka the safety of distance, which you clearly value otherwise youd get right up next to that guy and open on him as to prevent him from distancing you.
Distance with an archer is a double edged sword

damn, did aesop say that?

Wed 20 Nov 2019 9:11 AM by Razur Ur

I thought this is a QQ thread because of HP boost and not a QQ thread for poor archers :-D

Thu 21 Nov 2019 12:01 PM by sleeve

Ok update, I killed a solo skald yesterday, I think he was afk tho, didn't swing once. maybe they made all my enemies afk to compensate

Thu 21 Nov 2019 1:34 PM by jonl

unbelievably bad change

Thu 21 Nov 2019 1:41 PM by Razur Ur

jonl wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Nov 2019 1:34 PM
unbelievably bad change

can you tell us why bad change?

Fri 22 Nov 2019 11:47 AM by sleeve

just look at how mid is crushing server now lol

Fri 22 Nov 2019 12:33 PM by Killaloth

sleeve wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 11:47 AM
just look at how mid is crushing server now lol

Nothing changed.

People haven't changed playstyle because of these little twitches.

NA prime time is mainly pvdoor zergs, close to 0 visible solos, few strong grps that organise 8vs8 on discord.
EU morning to mid-afternoon is great for visible solo and smallman. Korean prime time around EU lunchtime makes for challenging and fun 8vs8 fights.
EU evening is still zergy but more diverse compared to NA prime time.

What do you mean with "crushing server"? A lot of ppl killing keep guards and turning the frontier blue? Who cares apart for those 30 more seconds on boat.

Make good use of discord and make sure that all your char names are mentioned in your "AKA" on discord so that ppl can find you to rearrange in another zone than fun fight that was ruined by adds perhaps.

A lot of times I tried to rearrange smallman fights but couldn't find the char name on discord :>

Fri 22 Nov 2019 1:33 PM by sleeve

I'd rather just play normal with encounters till these helmets made drastic changes lol. I think that's enough daoc for me.

Fri 22 Nov 2019 1:33 PM by Lillebror

Just remove the interrupt part when we are getting hit and the HP change is fine.