Infiltrator - General, Spec and items talk

Hi all ,

As a newish DAOC player and new to the realm
I'm hoping to start a go-to Infiltrator thread where we can discuss all things related to the Infiltrator especially around specs, tips , strageties, items and general topics.

Compiling all the important answers and editing main topic for reference:

INFILTRATOR CLASS:

RACE:
Briton for Slash
Saracen and Inconnu for Thrust

Saracen
hp 776 (base)
hp 1046 (cap)
-------------------
str con dex
60 60 90 (base)
-------------------
75 60 135 (lv50)
+75 +75 +75 (equip bonuses)
150 135 210 (stats cap)
Thrust damage (str+dex)/2 = 180

Briton
hp 812 (base)
hp 1082 (cap)
-------------------
str con dex
70 70 70 (base)
-------------------
85 70 115 (lv50)
+75 +75 +75 (equip bonuses)
160 145 190 (stats cap)
Slash damage (based on only str) = 160

While we can't predict who you will encounter if you are going to live in emain slash might be a better choice since you will run into more SBs, Odin more NS. So keep that in mind.

WEAPON :

Slash: +10 vs SB, -10 vs NS. 5sec 2 part evade stun @34.

Thrust: -10 vs SB, 0 vs NS. 6sec evade stun @15, 9 sec evade stun @50.

Recommend 3.9 MH and 3.3 OH player crafted ones or Sidi OH , some might like faster OH, I'm sure this has been debated before.

Aim for a minimum of 6 MH , even with the poison nerf you need to have enough for when dot get purged or resisted.

ALCHEMY PROCS:

Main Hand : DoT
Off Hand : DD
Chest : Heal
Arms : Ablative
Helms: Ablative
Legal: Ablative
Gloves: Ablative
Boots: Ablative

Some like 2 heals, 4 ablatives but since you can obtain at least 3 different heals (regen ring, heal clickie and potions) I feel ablatives works best.

TEMPLATE ROADMAP:

SIDI CHEST 15k - 180 Heal.
SIDI BELT 15k - Sacristan Coward's Belt - Utility 70 (dex30, qui30, stealth +3, envenom +3)
FRONTIER CLOAK 10k - Icy Glacier Skin - Utilty 75 (cold10, slash10, stealth +3, CS +4) or
SIDI CLOAK - Defiled Cowl 10k - utility 70 (con30, CS +5, envenom +5, AF charge)
SI NECK - 80 Utility
SIDI OFFHAND - Eviscerator 69 utility. (Thrust)

Optional : SI Bracers Quest - awards 2 58 utility bracers.

With these you should be able to max your template with 99% crafted gear as long you have 60+ ROGs in remaining slots, no swapping needed. I went for player made offhand as sometimes you have too much + stealth, CS etc.

CLICKIES:

AC 10k -STR/CON +75
AC 10k- DEX/QUI +75
RING OF PUMICE (Dartmoor) 52 regen hp.
Heart of Legion 20k - Gem - 230 heal charge
EPIC Chest AF charge.

RAs:

LW
Tireless
Purge2
Vanish

Then after that you start working on better purge, passive RA (dex, str,etc) or dmg RA (MoP, etc)

SPEC:

Leveling: keep Envenom at your level (using +skill of course) and rest into weapon and DW , no Stealth. I recommend Thrust for leveling as you will have evade 6 sec stun @15. Also use the Switch command to apply Poison and you will down mobs fast. (Update there is a change on how we apply poison, you can re-apply but no longer will get a dot tick) .

Do all kill1 tasks especially the mobs with high bonuses and turn in exp items. I was able to solo my infi relatively fast this way even after 40+. Simply expect not to get into groups unless your friends PL you.

RvR SPEC:

@RR3

37 Stealth/Envenom, 39 Weapon, 50 CS, 25 DW or
37 Stealth/Envenom, 39 Weapon, 44 CS, 34 DW

@RR4

36 Stealth/Env, 38 Weapon, 50 CS, 29 DW or
36 Stealth/Env, 38 Weapon, 44 CS, 37 DW

@RR5

35 Stealth/Env, 37 Weapon, 50 CS, 32 DW or
35 Stealth/Env, 37 Weapon, 44 CS, 40 DW.

MERCINFIL SPEC: Coming soon... the consensus is that you need a high RR to make this viable vs CS spec.

Hope this helps and any new relevant info will be updated.

Thanks.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 2:39 AM by Stimmed

1. What's the best race for infiltrator? Or is it based on the type of weapon you going to use? Personal preference. But Brit would be better for slash sara/iconnu for pierce.

2. Slash or Thrust as weapon? Thrust will be better in general. But slash can compete fine. Slash you will eat Sbs easier but worse vs NS. No 1 chain stun either need high DW for a stun then

3. Items, templating ? On other most mmos you go after certain items from bosses to finish your end game gear , I know this server is ROG for accessories and player crafted for armor / weapon, but are there any specific weapons, items that we can go for since you can buy them with feathers? SIDI Chest in your temp 100%. Rest then is really open. Sidi Offhand depending on your spec etc or dragon. Then SI Neck quest + 65+ util rogs each slot 70+ if you want to max all stats without MP armour in every slot.

4. RAs , in this server you can easily get to RR3 by lv50. What are the most crucial RAs to get , while leveling I was all MoPain , tireless and low but now that I'll be PvPing I'm assuming priorities change. LW1/Tireless1/Purge 2 Vanish 1. From there more purge or damage ras etc but thats the starting base you will want.

5. Tips, strategies? What's the best way to play? Are you always getting PAed first, or how to land PA first, also what potions, charge items we MUST bring with us. Combined buff pot/Haste Pot/End Pot/Damage Shield Pot/AF Charge/DQ(as thrust) Charge/StrCon(as slash) charge. Or run all 3 charges if your a baller.

6. (Most important) spec builds - you are most welcome to post and share your builds, I'm seeing 2 ways to play :

A. MercInfil ? What would be the spec for it and is it even viable or I just not waste time with it?

B. CS build - here is what I'm thinking at RR3 :

34 CS, 50 Thrust, 35 poison, 35 stealth , rest on dual. The specs I have tried are the one you listed but lower thrust as you get an evade stun 6 sec at 15 into pierce and can crank up DW higher or CS etc. I found the mercfil dps was not as good as higher CS/50 comp pierce/rest DW spec.

Hope this helps feel free to DM me on discord for any information you might want. [APEX] Stimmed - Meggles in Phoenix discord.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 5:20 AM by Dimir

I think Stimmed covered all pretty well, but I will say don't run around with comp 50 Envenom/Stealth. Your RR3 build would be missing some. Respec stones aren't hard to get/buy.

To me, the most appealling specs are 50 Thrust, 39+ CS, mid-level DW or Composite 52 Thrust (so like 37+15) and somewhere between 44-50 CS, with the extra in DW. Dragonfang is so good when your opponent doesn't have purge, but due to how fast of a purge people will eventually get it's very tempting to drop down to just using Beartooth for 6s and get a lot more damage on your main styles and chance to hit with the offhand. Time will tell if I switch

Tue 12 Feb 2019 6:57 PM by alusnova415

Stimmed wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 2:39 AM
1. What's the best race for infiltrator? Or is it based on the type of weapon you going to use? Personal preference. But Brit would be better for slash sara/iconnu for pierce.

2. Slash or Thrust as weapon? Thrust will be better in general. But slash can compete fine. Slash you will eat Sbs easier but worse vs NS. No 1 chain stun either need high DW for a stun then

3. Items, templating ? On other most mmos you go after certain items from bosses to finish your end game gear , I know this server is ROG for accessories and player crafted for armor / weapon, but are there any specific weapons, items that we can go for since you can buy them with feathers? SIDI Chest in your temp 100%. Rest then is really open. Sidi Offhand depending on your spec etc or dragon. Then SI Neck quest + 65+ util rogs each slot 70+ if you want to max all stats without MP armour in every slot.

4. RAs , in this server you can easily get to RR3 by lv50. What are the most crucial RAs to get , while leveling I was all MoPain , tireless and low but now that I'll be PvPing I'm assuming priorities change. LW1/Tireless1/Purge 2 Vanish 1. From there more purge or damage ras etc but thats the starting base you will want.

5. Tips, strategies? What's the best way to play? Are you always getting PAed first, or how to land PA first, also what potions, charge items we MUST bring with us. Combined buff pot/Haste Pot/End Pot/Damage Shield Pot/AF Charge/DQ(as thrust) Charge/StrCon(as slash) charge. Or run all 3 charges if your a baller.

6. (Most important) spec builds - you are most welcome to post and share your builds, I'm seeing 2 ways to play :

A. MercInfil ? What would be the spec for it and is it even viable or I just not waste time with it?

B. CS build - here is what I'm thinking at RR3 :

34 CS, 50 Thrust, 35 poison, 35 stealth , rest on dual. The specs I have tried are the one you listed but lower thrust as you get an evade stun 6 sec at 15 into pierce and can crank up DW higher or CS etc. I found the mercfil dps was not as good as higher CS/50 comp pierce/rest DW spec.

Hope this helps feel free to DM me on discord for any information you might want. [APEX] Stimmed - Meggles in Phoenix discord.

Thanks Meggles!

Question so does putting points into CS increases the damage of CS styles? Someone told me that the damage is based off the weapon. So this one is confusing me a bit .

And yes I figure I need to be 50 comp stealth, poison I'm using the lv45 one wondering if I should comp poison to 50 til i get rr5+.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:52 PM by Dimir

alusnova415 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 6:57 PM
Question so does putting points into CS increases the damage of CS styles? Someone told me that the damage is based off the weapon. So this one is confusing me a bit
Yes, increasing CS will increase STYLE damage of CS styles. Increasing Thrust will increase BASE damage of using a Thrust weapon. IIRC 52 is the cap composite for base damage, but you gain a tiny tiny boost in defense penetration for more. Where as every point of CS will increase style damage of CS styles.

And yes I figure I need to be 50 comp stealth, poison I'm using the lv45 one wondering if I should comp poison to 50 til i get rr5+.
I always make sure I am comp 50 (37 + 13 at RR3, 36 + 14 at RR4) and so on for stealth/evenom. But with this server's MoStealth system I may not be dropping Stealth below 35 when I hit RR6, time will tell.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:58 PM by Stimmed

I did it a bit of the hard way and just did my spec to suit RR4. So didnt have lifebane or comp 50 stealth to RR4 etc. I was not sure how easy you could farm etc to get stones but like Dimir said its pretty easy. And you get a free full respec anyway.

And I to wont go below 35 stealth unless they change how stealth works. So even at rr10 I would still be 35 just for the move speed etc. Unless they change it to be comp spec in stealth for example only then would I drop it. And with the bonus points its not nearly as bad for us to not drop when your rr4-5 your pretty set in getting everything you want. RR10 etc would be great only need the 30 or what ever it is in envenom and stuff. Then DF would be in the build for sure with so many free points I think.

Another thing I did was just a cheapish temp to have some fun. Some didn't that's cool, then I did a big temp later to cap everything with no envenom swap item. Which is much better but you can still easily compete with a cheaper temp to have some fun while you farm for a dear temp.

Rolling a farm class is a big bonus. Cab/necro/Cleric etc so you can get in feather and rog groups without an issue.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 12:38 AM by bard

What are weapon recommendations for a Thrust inf? I see sidi/dragon offhand, but what sort of dmg/speed are we looking for on mainhand vs off?

I've never really had a good grip on how to optimize these.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 5:38 AM by Hateress

bard wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 12:38 AM
What are weapon recommendations for a Thrust inf? I see sidi/dragon offhand, but what sort of dmg/speed are we looking for on mainhand vs off?

I've never really had a good grip on how to optimize these.

I did a ton of research on this (I like to Min/Max a bit), and there has been a bunch of debate on this topic. Easily hours of rabbit hole digging.

TLDR: Generally, you want minimum two main-hand weapons and an offhand:

1. Perf Wep - You want this to be as slow as possible for maximum perf damage. Make sure your CS / Thrust are composite maxxed out here or you will be missing damage.
2. Main style wep. - Some general debate on what weapon-speed you want here. Pick what's comfortable, or has a good proc. Typically dungeon items have a higher % chance to proc than player-made weapons, and players cannot craft lifeleech proc which is insanely good in a drawn-out fight. Personally, I use a 3.2 speed slasher with a good haste proc as my after perf swap, then swap to a 3rd main-hand that's slower after a few hits while hopefully proccing the haste.
3. Offhand - Again, some general debate on the DW mechanics. IMO Take the slowest weapon possible in the offhand as it will proc more often. I think it's pretty negligible the actual damage difference between offhand speeds as most stealther vs stealther fights assuming one person gets PA'd is over in 3-5 combat rounds.

Hope that helps.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 5:47 AM by Hateress

Stimmed wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:58 PM
I did it a bit of the hard way and just did my spec to suit RR4. So didnt have lifebane or comp 50 stealth to RR4 etc. I was not sure how easy you could farm etc to get stones but like Dimir said its pretty easy. And you get a free full respec anyway.

And I to wont go below 35 stealth unless they change how stealth works. So even at rr10 I would still be 35 just for the move speed etc. Unless they change it to be comp spec in stealth for example only then would I drop it. And with the bonus points its not nearly as bad for us to not drop when your rr4-5 your pretty set in getting everything you want. RR10 etc would be great only need the 30 or what ever it is in envenom and stuff. Then DF would be in the build for sure with so many free points I think.

Another thing I did was just a cheapish temp to have some fun. Some didn't that's cool, then I did a big temp later to cap everything with no envenom swap item. Which is much better but you can still easily compete with a cheaper temp to have some fun while you farm for a dear temp.

Rolling a farm class is a big bonus. Cab/necro/Cleric etc so you can get in feather and rog groups without an issue.

This is good advice.

Not a bad idea to have a farm class for plats. You need it for Pots / Charges / Templates.

Keep in mind ROG drops increase for a class depending on which classes are in the group. I did mine all with Hateress (5 LB runs or so kitted me out, and I don't have time to have like 5 extra toons unfortunately anymore). Make sure if you get into one as an Inf that you tell everyone it's your main, and you want 2-1 rolls against people's alts because everyone wants to roll on stealther gear! Couldn't tell you how many times someone out rolled me on an item I would have used to temp, only to see it on the market a day later.

Hateress

Thu 14 Feb 2019 2:17 PM by Ardri

Stimmed wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 2:39 AM
1. What's the best race for infiltrator? Or is it based on the type of weapon you going to use? Personal preference. But Brit would be better for slash sara/iconnu for pierce.

2. Slash or Thrust as weapon? Thrust will be better in general. But slash can compete fine. Slash you will eat Sbs easier but worse vs NS. No 1 chain stun either need high DW for a stun then

3. Items, templating ? On other most mmos you go after certain items from bosses to finish your end game gear , I know this server is ROG for accessories and player crafted for armor / weapon, but are there any specific weapons, items that we can go for since you can buy them with feathers? SIDI Chest in your temp 100%. Rest then is really open. Sidi Offhand depending on your spec etc or dragon. Then SI Neck quest + 65+ util rogs each slot 70+ if you want to max all stats without MP armour in every slot.

4. RAs , in this server you can easily get to RR3 by lv50. What are the most crucial RAs to get , while leveling I was all MoPain , tireless and low but now that I'll be PvPing I'm assuming priorities change. LW1/Tireless1/Purge 2 Vanish 1. From there more purge or damage ras etc but thats the starting base you will want.

5. Tips, strategies? What's the best way to play? Are you always getting PAed first, or how to land PA first, also what potions, charge items we MUST bring with us. Combined buff pot/Haste Pot/End Pot/Damage Shield Pot/AF Charge/DQ(as thrust) Charge/StrCon(as slash) charge. Or run all 3 charges if your a baller.

6. (Most important) spec builds - you are most welcome to post and share your builds, I'm seeing 2 ways to play :

A. MercInfil ? What would be the spec for it and is it even viable or I just not waste time with it?

B. CS build - here is what I'm thinking at RR3 :

34 CS, 50 Thrust, 35 poison, 35 stealth , rest on dual. The specs I have tried are the one you listed but lower thrust as you get an evade stun 6 sec at 15 into pierce and can crank up DW higher or CS etc. I found the mercfil dps was not as good as higher CS/50 comp pierce/rest DW spec.

Hope this helps feel free to DM me on discord for any information you might want. [APEX] Stimmed - Meggles in Phoenix discord.

Surprised to see someone who knows what they're talking about. All good info. Listen to this guy and you'll already be better than half the stealthers out there.
RR4 spec: 36stealth/env (composite 50), 38thrust (composite 52 to max base dmg and 6s evade stun that gets purged 9/10 times anyway), 50cs (to max style dmg), remaining 29 dw.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 9:37 PM by Shimmel

do i also have to get points in strength, when useing thrust weapons or can it be ignored in template?

Fri 15 Feb 2019 1:03 AM by cuuchulain79

I loved my infil back in the day :-)

A cool thing that only infils can do here, is 'bait' out purge with the level 4 2s stun in thrust...if they dump purge you can use either 6s or dragonfang if the fight lasts another 12 seconds. Even if they don't purge it still works :-)

And yes...you'll want 75 str in your temp even if you're specc'd thrust.

Sat 16 Feb 2019 12:15 AM by alusnova415

cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Feb 2019 1:03 AM
I loved my infil back in the day :-)

A cool thing that only infils can do here, is 'bait' out purge with the level 4 2s stun in thrust...if they dump purge you can use either 6s or dragonfang if the fight lasts another 12 seconds. Even if they don't purge it still works :-)

And yes...you'll want 75 str in your temp even if you're specc'd thrust.

Wait if you use the 2s stun first( gets purge) doesn't that make them immune to stun for 60 seconds ?

Sat 16 Feb 2019 12:25 AM by alusnova415

Shimmel wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Feb 2019 9:37 PM
do i also have to get points in strength, when useing thrust weapons or can it be ignored in template?

Thrust is half Strength and Dex correct so you always want 75 on all 4 main stats .

I got my template max stats , resists , skills, hp with nothing but 99% gear, I could have went for the sidi chest but decided to get sidi cloak and belt (utility 70 both) since I can always have a player make a chest . Yes the heal proc on the sidi chest might be a bit better but then you still dependent on farming rogs until you get the ones you want where it doesn't have too much of something (i.e. getting a 70+ rog but has +stealth and you already have other rogs with +stealth where you are sitting on more than 11 ) as soon I had 60+ rogs that did not put me over +11, +26 of any specific skill/resist plus si neck I made my template and maxed it.

Sat 16 Feb 2019 12:38 AM by florin

Immunity is 5x (possibly 6x but can’t find the notes) the length of stun. The technique works in longer fights b ut due to the level of zerginess, i prefer to have my fights over fast.

Sat 16 Feb 2019 1:24 AM by alusnova415

florin wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Feb 2019 12:38 AM
Immunity is 5x (possibly 6x but can’t find the notes) the length of stun. The technique works in longer fights b ut due to the level of zerginess, i prefer to have my fights over fast.

Ah ok , so a 2 sec stun will have 12 sec immunity? So this can work well in combination with vanish then maybe .

Sun 17 Feb 2019 1:20 AM by florin

alusnova415 wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Feb 2019 1:24 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Feb 2019 12:38 AM
Immunity is 5x (possibly 6x but can’t find the notes) the length of stun. The technique works in longer fights b ut due to the level of zerginess, i prefer to have my fights over fast.

Ah ok , so a 2 sec stun will have 12 sec immunity? So this can work well in combination with vanish then maybe .

Ya vanish has the downside of the 30s disarm but is feasible to burn their purge and hit them again

Mon 18 Feb 2019 2:40 PM by Iowyn

hi i haven´t played an infi since 15 years

Would be nice if you could help me a bit with my gear.
What weapons do you use as an thrust cs Infiltrator?
What procs on armor and weapons?
What anytimer is a good choice? i feel like my damage is pretty bad vs ns/sb as i play 50 thrust, 48cs?

Would be nice if you could help me a bit =)

Mon 18 Feb 2019 3:59 PM by Kyosji

So it's sounding to me that the format to go looks something like this:

Stealth: 35
Thrust: 15
CS: 44
DW: 50
Envenom: 35

Have some extra points after that, may put it in stealth or thrust.

Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:04 PM by Dimir

Kyosji wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 3:59 PM
So it's sounding to me that the format to go looks something like this:

Stealth: 35
Thrust: 15
CS: 44
DW: 50
Envenom: 35

Have some extra points after that, may put it in stealth or thrust.

Pretty sure you need much higher thrust or your base damage will suck.

Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:06 PM by Afuldan

Comp 50 envenom and stealth is not an option to not have, for assassin. That is a RR5 spec.
Also need minimum 52 comp weapon for max damage. Your damage will be about the same as a wet noodle with 15 thrust.

Edit : numbers.
RR5 +15 with +11 template, +4 RR bonus
35 stealth
35 env
37 thrust
44 cs
40 dw

Wed 20 Feb 2019 8:56 PM by Radikus

Question regarding poison swapping and weapons.

I see it is recommended to use the sidi offhand. If using the offhand do I only switch main hands for poison application purposes? The reason I ask is because I assume the stats on the offhand apply to the template.

For weapons, I assume I want crafted mainhand? How many should I look to be crafting and what order should I be applying poisons?

Wed 20 Feb 2019 11:55 PM by Stimmed

Sidi OH is all personal preference. It has a nice DA proc that procs a fair bit but its not game breaking I feel. I still swap it out with crafted weapons of same stats. Both my MH/OH all crafted so I just make more weapon same stats and swap both OH/MH in with what ever poison your wanting and away you go.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:26 AM by florin

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:06 PM
Comp 50 envenom and stealth is not an option to not have, for assassin. That is a RR5 spec.
Also need minimum 52 comp weapon for max damage. Your damage will be about the same as a wet noodle with 15 thrust.

Edit : numbers.
RR5 +15 with +11 template, +4 RR bonus
35 stealth
35 env
37 thrust
44 cs
40 dw

What do you think will happen when you go against a 50 blades/cd/la/cs oppenent with your weaponskill?

Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:38 AM by Afuldan

florin wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:26 AM
Afuldan wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:06 PM
Comp 50 envenom and stealth is not an option to not have, for assassin. That is a RR5 spec.
Also need minimum 52 comp weapon for max damage. Your damage will be about the same as a wet noodle with 15 thrust.

Edit : numbers.
RR5 +15 with +11 template, +4 RR bonus
35 stealth
35 env
37 thrust
44 cs
40 dw

What do you think will happen when you go against a 50 blades/cd/la/cs oppenent with your weaponskill?

Better than a 15 in Thrust. May as well make a Staff Perf character.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:54 AM by florin

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:38 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:26 AM
Afuldan wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:06 PM
Comp 50 envenom and stealth is not an option to not have, for assassin. That is a RR5 spec.
Also need minimum 52 comp weapon for max damage. Your damage will be about the same as a wet noodle with 15 thrust.

Edit : numbers.
RR5 +15 with +11 template, +4 RR bonus
35 stealth
35 env
37 thrust
44 cs
40 dw

What do you think will happen when you go against a 50 blades/cd/la/cs oppenent with your weaponskill?

Better than a 15 in Thrust. May as well make a Staff Perf character.

Sure - but that wasn’t my question

Thu 21 Feb 2019 1:59 AM by Afuldan

So drop CS to keep DW/Thrust higher? Mine hits the Stealth and Envenom comps, 52 comp thrust and 59 DW for WS.

29 cs 44 thrust 44 DW 35 stealth 35 emv is possible, just brings down perf and cs style damage. Does it help WS that much for inf to have a low CS and high weapon/dw?

Thu 21 Feb 2019 9:41 PM by Stimmed

florin wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:26 AM
Afuldan wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:06 PM
Comp 50 envenom and stealth is not an option to not have, for assassin. That is a RR5 spec.
Also need minimum 52 comp weapon for max damage. Your damage will be about the same as a wet noodle with 15 thrust.

Edit : numbers.
RR5 +15 with +11 template, +4 RR bonus
35 stealth
35 env
37 thrust
44 cs
40 dw

What do you think will happen when you go against a 50 blades/cd/la/cs oppenent with your weaponskill?

Not sue what you mean what will happen? He will kill them? Where is there an error in WS here? 44cs if hes using CS styles is more then high enough to do great dmg. You really think 6 Skills in a line when your already at 55 will make a break a fight?

Thu 21 Feb 2019 10:40 PM by florin

Stimmed wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 9:41 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:26 AM
Afuldan wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 4:06 PM
Comp 50 envenom and stealth is not an option to not have, for assassin. That is a RR5 spec.
Also need minimum 52 comp weapon for max damage. Your damage will be about the same as a wet noodle with 15 thrust.

Edit : numbers.
RR5 +15 with +11 template, +4 RR bonus
35 stealth
35 env
37 thrust
44 cs
40 dw

What do you think will happen when you go against a 50 blades/cd/la/cs oppenent with your weaponskill?

Not sue what you mean what will happen? He will kill them? Where is there an error in WS here? 44cs if hes using CS styles is more then high enough to do great dmg. You really think 6 Skills in a line when your already at 55 will make a break a fight?

The highest of advanced line style spec or weapon style spec is used in defense penetration. So going against a 50 spec as 44 spec puts you at a disadvantage from the get go before RnG, procs etc. Hence being able to go 50 thrust was touted as high weapon skill (obviously powerful with DF as well). The advanced lines also have hidden weapon skill (dw, cs etc) er go...not having 50 is more bad. Yes, in a 1v1 fight, everything counts.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 11:02 PM by Stimmed

I can tell you right now going 50 thrust is a waste. Anyway that's personal opinion. Theres not many great thrust styles bar DF. And Purge is so freely used here 90% of the time it wont stick. So then you got 50 spec line for your almighty DF you can be using somewhere else to a much greater benefit. I know multiple stealthers running purge 5 for example.

To think going 44/50 cs is going to somehow magically just completely change a fight is absurd. because if you dont use the points there and put them in DW then your going to OH hit more and have RNG on your side for that anyway. So it evens out. I have run tons of specs 44cs 50 cs 34 cs and never felt not having 50 weapon line made it so I couldn't land anything and still win most my fights. 44cs vs 50cs will see barely any damage difference. Yet you could gain 5% odd OH hit chance. from changing from 50 to 44 etc. Which to me is a much better idea.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 11:07 PM by florin

Stimmed wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 11:02 PM
I can tell you right now going 50 thrust is a waste. Anyway that's personal opinion. Theres not many great thrust styles bar DF. And Purge is so freely used here 90% of the time it wont stick. So then you got 50 spec line for your almighty DF you can be using somewhere else to a much greater benefit. I know multiple stealthers running purge 5 for example.

To think going 44/50 cs is going to somehow magically just completely change a fight is absurd. because if you dont use the points there and put them in DW then your going to OH hit more and have RNG on your side for that anyway. So it evens out. I have run tons of specs 44cs 50 cs 34 cs and never felt not having 50 weapon line made it so I couldn't land anything and still win most my fights. 44cs vs 50cs will see barely any damage difference. Yet you could gain 5% odd OH hit chance. from changing from 50 to 44 etc. Which to me is a much better idea.

I’m not making the case for 50 thrust. There are options now. I’m making the case for optimizing your spec. If. Everyone was so blasé you would run around with uncapped resists or Envenom on your xbow. Clearly no one would do that.

1 OH hit will not likely a fight but who ever gets that first evade does have a big impact

Yes beta was great for testing - many of us did dummiy testing for damage (that dont hit back) 44 CS is the sweet spot, every point after is negligble.

Now 50 DW is a diff story, but you have to work a few ranks for that spec

Thu 21 Feb 2019 11:27 PM by Stimmed

Yeah I tried mercfil early. And just didn't like it .HIgh cs spec was alot more damage across the board. Later on for sure I think it could be an option with tons of RRs behind you etc. Be interesting to see

Fri 22 Feb 2019 11:37 PM by Aytlan

I use the 3.9 mainhand and 3.3 offhand, player made. I run Haste pot @17%, so Haste proc gives little utility. Also, dmg shield pots. On top of that I run charges, 150 ablative, 75 af, 75 dex/qui with a dmg add charge on player made gloves in my pack during the fight. I have the 64 pt dot on mainhand and spirit dd on offhand.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 5:59 AM by alusnova415

Hey all so I started this thread and now I know more about the game than before . Here is what I think is the basic for our templates (I'm new but i was talking to other infiltrators and they seemed a bit lost on how to template the class) and odd some players still ask what rogs to get to template when it's all random.

Anyways what I think are the items to max your template plus clickies: (feather cost)

Sidi chest (180 heal proc) 15k
Sidi Belt (Sacristan Coward's Belt) 70 utility 15k - Dex 30, Qui 30, Stealth 3, Envenom 3.
Sidi Cloak (Defiled Cowl) 70 utility 10k - Constitution 30, CS +5 , Envenom +5 AF Charge. or
Frontier Cloak (Icy Galcier Skin) 10k - Cold 10, Slash 10, Stealth 3, CS 4.
SI neck 80 utility
Sidi offhand (eviscerator) 69 utility

With these items you should be able to max your template with 99% armor and main hand as long you get 60 rog at minimum which are not hard to get at all.

Clickies

AC Str/Con. 10k
AC Dex/Qui. 10k
Epic chest AF charge
Ring of Pumace Dartmoor item ( 52 Regen 20 sec ) 15k

Hope this helps anyone that is lost on what items to get and if someone else knows of other good items we can get with feathers or kill let us know . Thanks

Mon 25 Feb 2019 8:49 AM by giz0r

Afaik, there's no cloak in Sidi with 70 util. You thinking of Summoners Hall cloak?

FWIW, Glacier Giant cloak has 75 util, highest non-rog afaik

Mon 4 Mar 2019 2:02 PM by Telenope

anyone tried 50DW on an infil with the new changes yet?

Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:03 AM by alusnova415

I figure i also ask what are the RA priorities for infiltrators:

Tireless + LW first 2
Purge2
Vanish

What about after this 4? Purge3+? Viper?

What is the rr5 RA build ?

Thanks all

Tue 5 Mar 2019 5:30 PM by Flashrob

alusnova415 wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:03 AM
I figure i also ask what are the RA priorities for infiltrators:

Tireless + LW first 2
Purge2
Vanish

What about after this 4? Purge3+? Viper?

What is the rr5 RA build ?

Thanks all

I dont like Vanish so early, all it helps you is run away and otherwise wont contribute to any fights. I would go for aug dex and aug str early on instead. Cheap, helps you.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:29 PM by Stimmed

Telenope wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 2:02 PM
anyone tried 50DW on an infil with the new changes yet?

Done a few videos on it.

https://youtu.be/pTH8iz0jKCY This one was before the changes but still 50 DW for all fights bar 1 at the start I think.
https://youtu.be/Ad5jhhQ-0Jw This one is a mix of before and after. The only diff is 10% in OH hit chance from about 70-80 roughly. So its going to be pretty muc hthe same.

"I figure i also ask what are the RA priorities for infiltrators:

Tireless + LW first 2
Purge2
Vanish

What about after this 4? Purge3+? Viper?

What is the rr5 RA build ?

Thanks all"

Thats pretty standard. I dont use Vanish any more but its all up to you. I Think Purge 3 is more then fine sub rr 5 I run it now at rr6 and think its a pretty good timer for its points etc. Viper can work but its not clear cut winner its all personal preference I think viper vs high MOP/MOA etc. Vs tanks viper would prolly shine a bit more if the fight drawed out. But vs other stealthers not sure.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 3:15 AM by krycek

If you're a dot swap spammer viper would be worth it.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 3:05 PM by Dimir

krycek wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 3:15 AM
If you're a dot swap spammer viper would be worth it.

I disagree, unless you're like rank 10 and have points to burn. Viper 5 is 85 damage instead of 61 after resists. For 30 points? No thanks.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 7:05 PM by alusnova415

Class Mechanics:

Would love to get your expert input on class mechanics, as you guys can see I'm compiling all relevant info and updating the first post so any new infiltrator can read and get an idea of what direction they should go.

What I mean in class mechanics is :

1. How many weapons do we need at minimum? I made 6 (5 main and 1 offhand) some I heard have 12+ for the dot tick but with the recent changes to poison this might not be needed. Here I wonder if I need to make more OH weapons too.

2. How are you using all your envenom? (take in consideration the recent changes where you could spam lifebane each round for the dot tick) what would be the ideal rotation and usage of poisons.

(assume there are no resists)
Round 1 (start if fight) MH - Lifebane. OH - ?
Round 2 - Switch to 2H MH - ? OH - ?
Round 3 - Switch to 1H 1 MH - ?
Round 4 - Switch to 1H 2 MH ....etc etc

3. Anything else important to the class I'm missing ?

Thanks all

Fri 8 Mar 2019 9:10 AM by krycek

I start fight with enervating on main. Have disease on offhand. After first hit I swap to other equiped main hand that has dot on it. In bag's I would carry 5-6 extra's. 2 with dot's and 1-2 with enervating and disease each. For reapplying after purges or add's. If fight lasts long enough reapply dot's.

Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:52 PM by neeky

which craftable thrust mainhand should i use? i guess the slowest? how is it called?

Mon 11 Mar 2019 12:50 AM by krycek

3.9 is slowest crafted thruster. arcanium exceptional rapier

Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:55 PM by neeky

and which proccs would you suggest on crafted weapons?

Tue 12 Mar 2019 3:07 AM by alusnova415

neeky wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:55 PM
and which proccs would you suggest on crafted weapons?

I have DOT on MH and DD offhand ( I did not go for the eviscerator)

3.9 MH and 3.3 OH crafted.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 10:41 AM by DinoTriz

Is anyone here experienced with AHK?

I'm looking to create a macro which will cycle through different keys manually as you press one button.

I want to setup my /switch buttons in a way where I can press each one in order with an easy side mouse button press.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 11:52 AM by varg

As far I understand that would violate the no state rule of macros.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 11:59 AM by DinoTriz

varg wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 11:52 AM
As far I understand that would violate the no state rule of macros.

A GM already said it was legal. I just don't know if it is possible without delays, which aren't legal.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 1:39 PM by DinoTriz

Also, do stealthers use all 7 different types of poisons during a fight or is there one that sucks that everyone leaves out? (how effective is the endo drain poison?, etc..)

Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:09 AM by Docz

The following are the specs I'd like to try (considering MoS on this server):

[list=1]RR5: 35 env/sth, 37 thr, 50 cs, 32 dw

RR6: 34 env, 35 sth, 36 thr, 50 cs, 34 dw <--- with +16 you have all composite cap and 50cs that rules

RR6 bis: 34 env, 35 sth, 36 thr, 34 cs, 50 dw (for infilmerc spec)

[/list]

Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:16 AM by Docz

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 1:39 PM
Also, do stealthers use all 7 different types of poisons during a fight or is there one that sucks that everyone leaves out? (how effective is the endo drain poison?, etc..)

dot, str/con debuff and sickness are evergreen.. speed debuff on 4th weapon to use against some classes only.

Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:20 AM by Docz

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 10:41 AM
Is anyone here experienced with AHK?

I'm looking to create a macro which will cycle through different keys manually as you press one button.

I want to setup my /switch buttons in a way where I can press each one in order with an easy side mouse button press.

instead of AHK you can use a mouse software like logitech or razor that make you able to create macros on mouse buttons.

ie: on mouse btn 4 you can assign a macro that does Face->Sprint->PA->Stick->swap MH from 2H->CD

Sat 16 Mar 2019 3:28 PM by flyingnehpets

Docz wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:20 AM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 10:41 AM
Is anyone here experienced with AHK?

I'm looking to create a macro which will cycle through different keys manually as you press one button.

I want to setup my /switch buttons in a way where I can press each one in order with an easy side mouse button press.

instead of AHK you can use a mouse software like logitech or razor that make you able to create macros on mouse buttons.

ie: on mouse btn 4 you can assign a macro that does Face->Sprint->PA->Stick->swap MH from 2H->CD

Nostromo gaming pad is also a nice little beauty for this.

Mon 18 Mar 2019 2:35 PM by micinskib

Thoughts on this spec?

38 stealth
44 thrust
40 critical strike
31 dual wield
38 envenom

I'm closing in on 50 fast and currently RR 2L1. I keep seeing, and even hearing in game a lot of conflicting information on thrust and CS. I've had a couple people in game insisting that 50 thrust is a must. Yet, a lot of people on here say it's a waste of points.

Also, will the + to pts help my critical strike style damage and DW off hand to hit chance?

Tue 19 Mar 2019 6:56 PM by Docz

micinskib wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Mar 2019 2:35 PM
Thoughts on this spec?

38 stealth
44 thrust
40 critical strike
31 dual wield
38 envenom

I'm closing in on 50 fast and currently RR 2L1. I keep seeing, and even hearing in game a lot of conflicting information on thrust and CS. I've had a couple people in game insisting that 50 thrust is a must. Yet, a lot of people on here say it's a waste of points.

Also, will the + to pts help my critical strike style damage and DW off hand to hit chance?

Yes 50 thrust is a must.. DF 9sec stun is OP! But.. everyone will purge your stun.. sooo 50thrust became useless (you can use points for 50cs and higher dw) and with 52thrust composite you can still have the previous stun on evade that works too.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 10:08 PM by alusnova415

Docz wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:20 AM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 10:41 AM
Is anyone here experienced with AHK?

I'm looking to create a macro which will cycle through different keys manually as you press one button.

I want to setup my /switch buttons in a way where I can press each one in order with an easy side mouse button press.

instead of AHK you can use a mouse software like logitech or razor that make you able to create macros on mouse buttons.

ie: on mouse btn 4 you can assign a macro that does Face->Sprint->PA->Stick->swap MH from 2H->CD

If one thing I stuck at is at understanding how to make macros, I have logitech mouse and of course that has gaming software, now let me ask you that macro is it legal in this server? I wouldn't want to risk ever getting banned.

Also if you create that macro, is the the same for all mouse software?

Thanks

Wed 20 Mar 2019 6:55 AM by recluse

With the change to poisons, I’d love some input on a typical macro/hot bar setup for applying poisons and switching weapons.

I’m feeling good about my styles on hotbars 1 & 2, but how many weapons do we really need now and how many /switch macros? Do you macro/hotbar poison application too or do it in inventory with the mouse?

I’m thinking just switching main hands should be fine at this point right? Maybe MH/OH, 2H and 2 more MH with 2x switch macros?

Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:49 AM by Pops999

Docz wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:20 AM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 10:41 AM
Is anyone here experienced with AHK?

I'm looking to create a macro which will cycle through different keys manually as you press one button.

I want to setup my /switch buttons in a way where I can press each one in order with an easy side mouse button press.

instead of AHK you can use a mouse software like logitech or razor that make you able to create macros on mouse buttons.

ie: on mouse btn 4 you can assign a macro that does Face->Sprint->PA->Stick->swap MH from 2H->CD

Why is there even a ban on any macro?

Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:26 PM by DinoTriz

Pops999 wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:49 AM
Docz wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:20 AM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 10:41 AM
Is anyone here experienced with AHK?

I'm looking to create a macro which will cycle through different keys manually as you press one button.

I want to setup my /switch buttons in a way where I can press each one in order with an easy side mouse button press.

instead of AHK you can use a mouse software like logitech or razor that make you able to create macros on mouse buttons.

ie: on mouse btn 4 you can assign a macro that does Face->Sprint->PA->Stick->swap MH from 2H->CD

Why is there even a ban on any macro?

Mostly for automatic/botting play

Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:31 PM by Dreb

I’m curious what Thrust Inf’s are using as an anytime style, do you use G/AH and deal with the penalty or is there a good anytime in DW? I’m thinking for the typical 44(50)CS low RR spec. I’ve gone through the char planner and nothing jumps out at me. Maybe once through the G/AH for the ws debuff?? Then what?

Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:34 PM by Pops999

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:26 PM
Pops999 wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:49 AM
Docz wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:20 AM
instead of AHK you can use a mouse software like logitech or razor that make you able to create macros on mouse buttons.

ie: on mouse btn 4 you can assign a macro that does Face->Sprint->PA->Stick->swap MH from 2H->CD

Why is there even a ban on any macro?

Mostly for automatic/botting play

I am aware of that. But that key press chain isn't too far from auto play.

Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:26 PM by DinoTriz

Pops999 wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:34 PM
I am aware of that. But that key press chain isn't too far from auto play.

Agreed. It's pretty borderline, but it's legal to bind multiple abilities to one key and you could pull that off without delays, conditions, or repeats.

It's most likely legal.

Thu 21 Mar 2019 8:31 PM by recluse

So I'm getting my template together and trying to use as many feather items as I can, as I don't have a farm bot over here yet.

Do you guys recommend Azure Eviscerator or Dancer's Flurry for offhand? Or crafted all the way?

Alternatively, could you open PA with a crafted 3.9 MH, and switch to Eviscerator in your 2h slot for the rest of the fight/styles? It's 3.3 speed... dmg add just seems great.

I'll probably buy the Sacristan belt, either Glacier or Cowl for cloak, and Ring of Arcane Strength. Maybe Wormhide or Wormskin bracer too?

I think that's about it...

Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:08 PM by micinskib

Thoughts on this for final spec assuming RR3 minimum:

37 stealth
39 thrust
50 CS
25 DW
37 Env

Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:46 PM by DinoTriz

micinskib wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:08 PM
Thoughts on this for final spec assuming RR3 minimum:

37 stealth
39 thrust
50 CS
25 DW
37 Env

Looks pretty good. You could possibly get away with only 44 CS and then use the points for DW.

Not sure how much damage you get from CS between 44 and 50. It might only be a tiny amount. Unless of course you're going for the 50 style, which is a 4 part chain. Pretty hard to pull that off.

Fri 22 Mar 2019 2:09 PM by micinskib

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:46 PM
micinskib wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:08 PM
Thoughts on this for final spec assuming RR3 minimum:

37 stealth
39 thrust
50 CS
25 DW
37 Env

Looks pretty good. You could possibly get away with only 44 CS and then use the points for DW.

Not sure how much damage you get from CS between 44 and 50. It might only be a tiny amount. Unless of course you're going for the 50 style, which is a 4 part chain. Pretty hard to pull that off.

Yea i was mostly going for max style damage, but i suppose i get that with 44 and + to skill like with thrust? I don't ever really expect to be able to pull off that long style chain for 50 CS even in a 1v1. It'll probably be over fast. So maybe drop to 44 and up DW after all.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:40 AM by SlowMo

Anyone playing Slash Infi?

How does it perform compared to thrust ?

What are your weapon (slash) choices?

Ty

Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:12 AM by Telenope

SlowMo wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:40 AM
Anyone playing Slash Infi?

How does it perform compared to thrust ?

What are your weapon (slash) choices?

Ty

Yeah after playing Thrustr for a while i fairly fast came to the conclusion that you wont beat SBs without slash, so i retemped and went slash. it works just great, also im a briton but you should be fine as sara is you got some RRs aswell.
cheers man

Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:25 AM by Riac

Telenope wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:12 AM
SlowMo wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:40 AM
Anyone playing Slash Infi?

How does it perform compared to thrust ?

What are your weapon (slash) choices?

Ty

Yeah after playing Thrustr for a while i fairly fast came to the conclusion that you wont beat SBs without slash, so i retemped and went slash. it works just great, also im a briton but you should be fine as sara is you got some RRs aswell.
cheers man

yall think the -10% spread on mid leather is bad you should see the blade ns / blade ranger matchup, thats a -20% dmg spread, but its no big deal or anything.

Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:28 PM by alusnova415

Telenope wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Apr 2019 6:12 AM
SlowMo wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 7:40 AM
Anyone playing Slash Infi?

How does it perform compared to thrust ?

What are your weapon (slash) choices?

Ty

Yeah after playing Thrustr for a while i fairly fast came to the conclusion that you wont beat SBs without slash, so i retemped and went slash. it works just great, also im a briton but you should be fine as sara is you got some RRs aswell.
cheers man

How much more str and con would a briton will have over saracen at 50? With race respecs now available any saracen can repsec Briton if going slash.

Wed 10 Apr 2019 12:46 PM by Stimmed

"Face->Sprint->PA->Stick->swap MH from 2H->CD" Pretty sure you cannot do this without delays. If you have no delays your pressing all those buttons at one time. meaning cd could go off before perf etc. I know AHK can make it so when you scroll it does 1 of those so you could bind it to your mouse wheel scroll one time then anotehr for the next ability etc?

You would also want it to be face-pa-sprint as pretty sure you cant sprint while stealthed so you wont be sprinting as you land perf.

Thrust is harder vs SB's for sure but in no means is it a insta loss. Player skill will outweigh the dmg diff every time. Some SB's are much tougher same as some NS or some INF etc etc.

Wed 10 Apr 2019 12:57 PM by Ashenspire

Dreb wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:31 PM
I’m curious what Thrust Inf’s are using as an anytime style, do you use G/AH and deal with the penalty or is there a good anytime in DW? I’m thinking for the typical 44(50)CS low RR spec. I’ve gone through the char planner and nothing jumps out at me. Maybe once through the G/AH for the ws debuff?? Then what?

The defense penalty on Garrote isn't worth worrying about. You'll have a 45% base chance to evade with a combined 500 d/q, and defensive penalty only affects hit chance, not evade.

It's the hardest hitting anytime combo in the game. Use it

Wed 10 Apr 2019 10:41 PM by alusnova415

Anyone know what's better for damage Aug Str or MoP? I have 2 templates one thrust and one slash , right now I'm trying slash as asaracen.

I have MoP6 and see 1-3 critical hits per fight (vs stealthers) but of course there is a huge dmg variance in the critical hits ( I have been in few fights where yeah I crit 3x but each dmg was 11, 16, 13 etc) so this has me thinking would going for more strength be better for consistent more dmg ?

Are there any calculators that we can compare this?

Also if I settle in thrust , since its 1/2 str and Dex what's the passive stat to raise to increase dmg? Aug str, Aug Dex or both?

Thu 11 Apr 2019 3:02 AM by lannchilds

alusnova415 wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Apr 2019 10:41 PM
Anyone know what's better for damage Aug Str or MoP? I have 2 templates one thrust and one slash , right now I'm trying slash as asaracen.

I have MoP6 and see 1-3 critical hits per fight (vs stealthers) but of course there is a huge dmg variance in the critical hits ( I have been in few fights where yeah I crit 3x but each dmg was 11, 16, 13 etc) so this has me thinking would going for more strength be better for consistent more dmg ?

Are there any calculators that we can compare this?

Also if I settle in thrust , since its 1/2 str and Dex what's the passive stat to raise to increase dmg? Aug str, Aug Dex or both?

I am also interested in this fine man's question. Or a calc website.

Thu 11 Apr 2019 9:20 AM by Stimmed

You can easily just test aug str dmg? basically use a str or dex pot that gives 26 str etc. Then see the dmg before and after? or does the RA's stack/add damage differently? I did that and its like 5-6 dmg increase per hand. So its something but from that I wouldn't say its worth it. MOP can win a fight in 2 rounds. But if RA AUG str/dex add damage differently to str/dex from pots then I'm not sure.

Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:15 AM by Docz

Stimmed wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Apr 2019 12:46 PM
"Face->Sprint->PA->Stick->swap MH from 2H->CD" Pretty sure you cannot do this without delays. If you have no delays your pressing all those buttons at one time. meaning cd could go off before perf etc. I know AHK can make it so when you scroll it does 1 of those so you could bind it to your mouse wheel scroll one time then anotehr for the next ability etc?

You would also want it to be face-pa-sprint as pretty sure you cant sprint while stealthed so you wont be sprinting as you land perf.

Thrust is harder vs SB's for sure but in no means is it a insta loss. Player skill will outweigh the dmg diff every time. Some SB's are much tougher same as some NS or some INF etc etc.

OFC u must use delays

Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:22 AM by Docz

Slash Briton VS Thrust Saracen (lv 50)

Saracen
hp 776 (base)
hp 1046 (cap)
-------------------
str con dex
60 60 90 (base)
-------------------
75 60 135 (lv50)
+75 +75 +75 (equip bonuses)
150 135 210 (stats cap)
Thrust damage (str+dex)/2 = 180

Briton
hp 812 (base)
hp 1082 (cap)
-------------------
str con dex
70 70 70 (base)
-------------------
85 70 115 (lv50)
+75 +75 +75 (equip bonuses)
160 145 190 (stats cap)
Slash damage (based on only str) = 160

So.. In my opinion Thrust Saracen is better.. higher base damage and higher evade chance.
HPs re only 46 points difference.
BTW Saracen is suitable also for slash because it has only -10 points of str that you can easily adjust with some RAs.

Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:31 AM by Docz

Stimmed wrote: ↑
Thu 11 Apr 2019 9:20 AM
You can easily just test aug str dmg? basically use a str or dex pot that gives 26 str etc. Then see the dmg before and after? or does the RA's stack/add damage differently? I did that and its like 5-6 dmg increase per hand. So its something but from that I wouldn't say its worth it. MOP can win a fight in 2 rounds. But if RA AUG str/dex add damage differently to str/dex from pots then I'm not sure.

Aug str and aug dex RAs increase your base stats permanently. Buff pots do the same but only for a limited time period. Both increase your live stats so your base dmg, total hps and evade chance are better.
Imho MoP works well with some aug str and aug dex too if you are thrust or just aug str if you are slash.

Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:32 AM by Stimmed

Docz wrote: ↑
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:15 AM
Stimmed wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Apr 2019 12:46 PM
"Face->Sprint->PA->Stick->swap MH from 2H->CD" Pretty sure you cannot do this without delays. If you have no delays your pressing all those buttons at one time. meaning cd could go off before perf etc. I know AHK can make it so when you scroll it does 1 of those so you could bind it to your mouse wheel scroll one time then anotehr for the next ability etc?

You would also want it to be face-pa-sprint as pretty sure you cant sprint while stealthed so you wont be sprinting as you land perf.

Thrust is harder vs SB's for sure but in no means is it a insta loss. Player skill will outweigh the dmg diff every time. Some SB's are much tougher same as some NS or some INF etc etc.

OFC u must use delays

Then its banable unless they changed it? Cant use delays in macros I thought?

Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:33 AM by Stimmed

Docz wrote: ↑
Thu 11 Apr 2019 10:31 AM
Stimmed wrote: ↑
Thu 11 Apr 2019 9:20 AM
You can easily just test aug str dmg? basically use a str or dex pot that gives 26 str etc. Then see the dmg before and after? or does the RA's stack/add damage differently? I did that and its like 5-6 dmg increase per hand. So its something but from that I wouldn't say its worth it. MOP can win a fight in 2 rounds. But if RA AUG str/dex add damage differently to str/dex from pots then I'm not sure.

Aug str and aug dex RAs increase your base stats permanently. Buff pots do the same but only for a limited time period. Both increase your live stats so your base dmg, total hps and evade chance are better.
Imho MoP works well with some aug str and aug dex too if you are thrust or just aug str if you are slash.

Hahah sorry if I was not clear I know aug str is perm. Wasn't sure if just testing a buff bot to emulate specing into aug str would yield the same effects.

Sat 13 Apr 2019 6:20 PM by alusnova415

Here are some results :

Saracen - Slash vs 26% Dummy

PA chain using 4.0 MH and 2.8 offhand swords.

PA 277 (unbuffed 150 str)
PA 327 (combined forces 215 str) +18%
PA 356 (combined + S/C clickie 251 str) +28.5%

CD 111 - 118 - 128
SS 119 - 125 - 136

Offhand damage : 38 - 45 - 48

Seeing the results using the combined forces pot gave me a +18% dmg boost on PA, so that's what got me thinking what will going for Aug str do for dmg vs MoP?. I think I want to test going all Aug Str just to see dmg difference but MoP might still be the way to go.

Here is something I read in another daoc forum:

DAoC basics. Essentially, due to the fact that the damage formula is so long and includes not just WeaponSkill, but, target AF, ABS value, Melee Resists and various unknown and unproven values such as item condition on both the attacker and recipient, the value of your Strength attribute gets extremely devalued. Mainly because it only partially contributes towards your damage, but, also because as an assassin you run composite weaponskill, which significantly decreases your WS.

Adding Strength to an assassin won't help you. You will see a miniscule increase in your aggregate damage (the % towards the damage cap that your styles actually achieve)

Piling on the weaponskill is mainly for classes that can afford to run non-composite weaponskill and is even more effective if they have access to AF debuffs etc.

In essence, avoid Aug Str. Run Pain 5-7 as it provides optimal efficiency and then think about other options such as Toughness etc.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:55 AM by Docz

alusnova415 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Apr 2019 6:20 PM
Here are some results :

Saracen - Slash vs 26% Dummy

PA chain using 4.0 MH and 2.8 offhand swords.

PA 277 (unbuffed 150 str)
PA 327 (combined forces 215 str) +18%
PA 356 (combined + S/C clickie 251 str) +28.5%

CD 111 - 118 - 128
SS 119 - 125 - 136

Offhand damage : 38 - 45 - 48

Seeing the results using the combined forces pot gave me a +18% dmg boost on PA, so that's what got me thinking what will going for Aug str do for dmg vs MoP?. I think I want to test going all Aug Str just to see dmg difference but MoP might still be the way to go.

Here is something I read in another daoc forum:

DAoC basics. Essentially, due to the fact that the damage formula is so long and includes not just WeaponSkill, but, target AF, ABS value, Melee Resists and various unknown and unproven values such as item condition on both the attacker and recipient, the value of your Strength attribute gets extremely devalued. Mainly because it only partially contributes towards your damage, but, also because as an assassin you run composite weaponskill, which significantly decreases your WS.

Adding Strength to an assassin won't help you. You will see a miniscule increase in your aggregate damage (the % towards the damage cap that your styles actually achieve)

Piling on the weaponskill is mainly for classes that can afford to run non-composite weaponskill and is even more effective if they have access to AF debuffs etc.

In essence, avoid Aug Str. Run Pain 5-7 as it provides optimal efficiency and then think about other options such as Toughness etc.

Agree.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:14 PM by Docz

What about aug con RA? Is it worth to increase constitution to +28 (aug con 6) instead of Toughness?
Considering buff pots, what is the best between toughness and aug constitution in terms of total HPs result?

My calculations:

Saracen lv 50 (+10 str/con/dex)
Base constitution (+75 items bonus) w/o buffs = 135
Combined buff pots give +65 (26+39) for a total of 200 con points and 1280hps

Starting from 200 constitution and 1280hps there are 2 possibilities:
a) aug con 6 +28 points
b) toughness 6 +200 hps
------------------------------------
a) aug con 6: +28 con -> 1380 hps
b) tougness 6: +200 hps --> 1480hps

Tue 16 Apr 2019 2:47 PM by florin

Docz wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:14 PM
What about aug con RA? Is it worth to increase constitution to +28 (aug con 6) instead of Toughness?
Considering buff pots, what is the best between toughness and aug constitution in terms of total HPs result?

My calculations:

Saracen lv 50 (+10 str/con/dex)
Base constitution (+75 items bonus) w/o buffs = 135
Combined buff pots give +65 (26+39) for a total of 200 con points and 1280hps

Starting from 200 constitution and 1280hps there are 2 possibilities:
a) aug con 6 +28 points
b) toughness 6 +200 hps
------------------------------------
a) aug con 6: +28 con -> 1380 hps
b) tougness 6: +200 hps --> 1480hps

con can be debuffed - how about toughness?
Also you should aim for red STR/CON charge for 75

Tue 16 Apr 2019 2:55 PM by Docz

florin wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 2:47 PM
Docz wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:14 PM
What about aug con RA? Is it worth to increase constitution to +28 (aug con 6) instead of Toughness?
Considering buff pots, what is the best between toughness and aug constitution in terms of total HPs result?

My calculations:

Saracen lv 50 (+10 str/con/dex)
Base constitution (+75 items bonus) w/o buffs = 135
Combined buff pots give +65 (26+39) for a total of 200 con points and 1280hps

Starting from 200 constitution and 1280hps there are 2 possibilities:
a) aug con 6 +28 points
b) toughness 6 +200 hps
------------------------------------
a) aug con 6: +28 con -> 1380 hps
b) tougness 6: +200 hps --> 1480hps

con can be debuffed - how about toughness?
Also you should aim for red STR/CON charge for 75

From the calcs above it seems that Thoughness > aug con, so as far as I know I'd prefer tougness instead of aug con.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:01 PM by florin

Docz wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:55 AM
alusnova415 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Apr 2019 6:20 PM
Here are some results :

Saracen - Slash vs 26% Dummy

PA chain using 4.0 MH and 2.8 offhand swords.

PA 277 (unbuffed 150 str)
PA 327 (combined forces 215 str) +18%
PA 356 (combined + S/C clickie 251 str) +28.5%

CD 111 - 118 - 128
SS 119 - 125 - 136

Offhand damage : 38 - 45 - 48

Seeing the results using the combined forces pot gave me a +18% dmg boost on PA, so that's what got me thinking what will going for Aug str do for dmg vs MoP?. I think I want to test going all Aug Str just to see dmg difference but MoP might still be the way to go.

Here is something I read in another daoc forum:

DAoC basics. Essentially, due to the fact that the damage formula is so long and includes not just WeaponSkill, but, target AF, ABS value, Melee Resists and various unknown and unproven values such as item condition on both the attacker and recipient, the value of your Strength attribute gets extremely devalued. Mainly because it only partially contributes towards your damage, but, also because as an assassin you run composite weaponskill, which significantly decreases your WS.

Adding Strength to an assassin won't help you. You will see a miniscule increase in your aggregate damage (the % towards the damage cap that your styles actually achieve)

Piling on the weaponskill is mainly for classes that can afford to run non-composite weaponskill and is even more effective if they have access to AF debuffs etc.

In essence, avoid Aug Str. Run Pain 5-7 as it provides optimal efficiency and then think about other options such as Toughness etc.
Agree.

the only issue I have with this is that when composite spec and using CS/DW styles - we dont use the weapon spec WS for defense penetration but the hidden WS for these advanced weapons specs. It's on the forums and patch notes.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:13 PM by Docz

florin wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:01 PM
Docz wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:55 AM
alusnova415 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Apr 2019 6:20 PM
Here are some results :

Saracen - Slash vs 26% Dummy

PA chain using 4.0 MH and 2.8 offhand swords.

PA 277 (unbuffed 150 str)
PA 327 (combined forces 215 str) +18%
PA 356 (combined + S/C clickie 251 str) +28.5%

CD 111 - 118 - 128
SS 119 - 125 - 136

Offhand damage : 38 - 45 - 48

Seeing the results using the combined forces pot gave me a +18% dmg boost on PA, so that's what got me thinking what will going for Aug str do for dmg vs MoP?. I think I want to test going all Aug Str just to see dmg difference but MoP might still be the way to go.

Here is something I read in another daoc forum:

DAoC basics. Essentially, due to the fact that the damage formula is so long and includes not just WeaponSkill, but, target AF, ABS value, Melee Resists and various unknown and unproven values such as item condition on both the attacker and recipient, the value of your Strength attribute gets extremely devalued. Mainly because it only partially contributes towards your damage, but, also because as an assassin you run composite weaponskill, which significantly decreases your WS.

Adding Strength to an assassin won't help you. You will see a miniscule increase in your aggregate damage (the % towards the damage cap that your styles actually achieve)

Piling on the weaponskill is mainly for classes that can afford to run non-composite weaponskill and is even more effective if they have access to AF debuffs etc.

In essence, avoid Aug Str. Run Pain 5-7 as it provides optimal efficiency and then think about other options such as Toughness etc.
Agree.

the only issue I have with this is that when composite spec and using CS/DW styles - we dont use the weapon spec WS for defense penetration but the hidden WS for these advanced weapons specs. It's on the forums and patch notes.

Can you try to explain it differently?

Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:23 PM by florin

Docz wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:13 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:01 PM
Docz wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 11:55 AM
Agree.

the only issue I have with this is that when composite spec and using CS/DW styles - we dont use the weapon spec WS for defense penetration but the hidden WS for these advanced weapons specs. It's on the forums and patch notes.

Can you try to explain it differently?

Patch Notes
2018-10-4 Thursday

when using a style the higher of style spec and base weapon spec is used (for the styled attack only, offhand / unstyled uses base weapon spec)
the weight of weapon spec has been increased

Also

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3021&p=18748#p18748

Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:04 PM by alusnova415

OK Here are my results I'll post both results with no Aug Str and with it :

SARACEN - SLASH RR4 NO Aug Str vs 26% dummy.

PA chain using 4.0 MH and 2.8 offhand swords.

PA 277 (unbuffed 150 str)
PA 327 (combined forces 215 str) +18%
PA 356 (combined + S/C clickie 251 str) +28.5%

CD 111 - 118 - 128
SS 119 - 125 - 136
Offhand damage : 38 - 45 - 48

VS

SARACEN - SLASH RR4 with Aug Str 6 vs 26% dummy.

PA 298 (unbuffed 178 str)
PA 350 (Combined Forces 243 str) +17.5%
PA 378 (Combined + S/C Clickie 279 str) +27%

CD 119 - 127 - 136
SS 127 - 135 - 144
Offhand Damage: 41 - 48 - 51

SARACEN - THRUST RR4 No AugStr vs 26% Dummy (3.9/3.3weapons)

PA 308 (150 str)
PA 360 (215 Str -Combined Pot)
PA 374 (251 Str - Combined +S/C)

CD 121 - 127 - 132
SS 129 - 136 - 140
Offhand Damage 50 - 59 - 61

SARACEN - THRUST RR4 AugStr6 vs 26% Dummy

PA 319 (178 str)
PA 371 (243 str Combined)
PA 385 (279 str S/C + Combined)

CD 125 - 131 - 136
SS 134 - 139 - 144
Offhand 52 - 60 - 63

Also since thrust is 1/2 str and dex decided to see how much dmg is with both S/C and D/Q clickies and D/Q only no S/C (of course with Combined Forces +AugStr6)

PA 371 (Str 204 Dex 316 D/Q) 400 (str 279 Dex 316 S/C and D/Q)
CD 125 135
SS 132 143
Off 60 65

Whats's interesting here is that you actually do more dmg (using PA dmg only) with the S/C charge ( 385) vs D/Q charge alone (371) of course running both does the most dmg (400) but I hate having my heal charge on cooldown so most of the time i run one only, seeing the more dmg and extra con I might run S/C over D/Q even as thrust.

Lastly we know there are tons of variances but just taking the dmg result from the 3 attacks vs SB and NS we should be looking at :

vs SB - Slash 298+119+127 = 544 +10% = 598
SB - Thrust 319+125+134 = 578 -10% = 520

vs NS - Slash 298+119+127 = 544 -10% = 490
NS - Thrust 319+125+134 = 578 - 0% = 578

So going slash you see lowest total attack 490 vs NS and 598 vs SB and Thrust sees lowest total 520 vs SB and 578 vs NS, it seems the delta is better with Thrust as the gap between lowest and highest attack is closer.

Anyways as someone said skill and experience is the most important factor in all of these results and questions.

=====================================================================================

So what damage increase are we seeing with AugStr 6 vs none ? A 7 to 7.5% overall increase in dps, when you land 3 part PA chain you are dealing +22 +8 +8 damage for example so that's already +38, then the rest of of your attacks will also see 7% dmg boost.

Anyways is a small sample size but gives us an idea what is better for dmg 7% dmg boost vs crit chanche (with high variance).

Wed 17 Apr 2019 12:45 PM by Fugax

For those that have gone thrust. Are you using the 3.9 for main and the 3.3 speed for yr off hands after perf. Or are ppl doing the 3.3 and the 2.9 speed. Was thinking about doing 3.3 speeds (both hands) after perf, but didn't know if that was too slow or not. thanks.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 2:16 PM by Animosity

3.9/2.4 until you can get quick/aom up enough to cap swing speed. Then 3.9/2.9 and recap.

Thu 18 Apr 2019 9:31 PM by Fugax

i have sidi chest... what kind of alch procs dose everyone one suggest?

Thu 18 Apr 2019 11:38 PM by Animosity

I’ve seen all sorts of advice on this. I think standard is go total three heal procs (chest/legs/arms) and three ablatives. I’ve seen people do sidi chest and rest ablatives. I’ve even seen reactive dd procs.

Up to you what route you go.

Sat 20 Apr 2019 11:27 PM by Fugax

I have two heal procs and the rest ablative. I have another questions regarding weapons. Is there a formula regarding swing speed? I am currently using 3.9 and 2.9 weapons, and have MOA 3. I wish there was a way to tell if i am close to capping my swing speed or that I need to get Aug Quick. Does anyone have any general advice to follow in regards to knowing if your capping yr swing speed and or how high I should go into MOA and or Aug Quick? Thank you in advanced.

Verapamil

Sun 21 Apr 2019 12:06 AM by Animosity

Think this is still accurate:

https://www.daocutils.com/utilities

Sun 21 Apr 2019 12:29 PM by dstrmberg

Hi, i'm a soon to be L50 briton infil. 10 str/con/qui.

I wanted to ask the experts here about infil spec for small stealther groups (infil, minstrel & scout mainly).

Is slash or thrust better in this group constellation?
What is a good spec for doing good dps for the team?
Recommended weapons and weapon procs?
Any other tips & tricks?

Thanks in advance!

Fri 26 Apr 2019 9:55 PM by alusnova415

dstrmberg wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Apr 2019 12:29 PM
Hi, i'm a soon to be L50 briton infil. 10 str/con/qui.

I wanted to ask the experts here about infil spec for small stealther groups (infil, minstrel & scout mainly).

Is slash or thrust better in this group constellation?
What is a good spec for doing good dps for the team?
Recommended weapons and weapon procs?
Any other tips & tricks?

Thanks in advance!

Quite honestly at lower RR you are better using CS spec after you have some RR6+ maybe if you want to spec in a MercInfil that might work.

I personally have not tried MercInfil and no one has posted their results if they tried it , I would bet that 99% of infiltrators are CS spec.

As to what weapons to use ? Read the first post for the resists plus some pros and cons to consider. But consider this if you guys going to live in emain (btw during beta my first foray in daoc I'm still newish , I tried Hib but got tired of the run to emain so I rolled Alb) you will run into SBs more so Slash might be the way to go. If you going to rotate the tasks and go to Odin a lot Thrust might be better.

Sat 27 Apr 2019 6:05 AM by Highfather17

So what's the best spec for a RR3?

And what are some "must have" template items?

Sat 27 Apr 2019 4:19 PM by alusnova415

Highfather17 wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Apr 2019 6:05 AM
So what's the best spec for a RR3?

And what are some "must have" template items?

Read the very first post, it tells you the items that can be obtained with feathers , remember in this server your template will be different because of the the ROGs.

Also same post has recommend specs starting at rr3.

Wed 1 May 2019 12:55 AM by hellcon

HAHA, okay I give - how do I do this?

As my last throws at this game I made an Infil, and have been mucking around with it.

I ran into an a low rr4L6 slash luri NS who PA'd me on two different encounters for for 492+232 and 489+153 (plus large crits). I saw another infil amusingly get murdered by him as well & he stated he was hit for 460+180.

What am I missing? How can I hit that hard as well?
That was neutral slash damage against 29% resist and standard 102,99% crafted from a character with low base str[luri] (at least purge2 & mop4; so couldn't have had too many points dumped into aug.str)

https://imgur.com/BjV5yT3

Sat 11 May 2019 2:07 AM by Highfather17

So basically the af dex/qui and str/con charges are no longer viable/worth buying?

Are there any other charges worth buying?

Also, what software are people using for creating templates?

Help would be appreciated!

Sat 11 May 2019 2:56 PM by gotwqqd

Is a dw low cs viable on alb assassin?
I played an NS and only had BS2 in cs.
I excelled in the CD line.

Mon 13 May 2019 9:10 AM by dstrmberg

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 2:56 PM
Is a dw low cs viable on alb assassin?
I played an NS and only had BS2 in cs.
I excelled in the CD line.

Not sure if this will work (@RR4):

36 stealth/env
34 cs
36 weap
48 dw (sure, miss the frontal attack, but gain huge offhand swing rate and average attackspeed)

Will try it and report back.

When I hit RR5 I will try:

35 stealth/env
34 cs
35 weap
50 dw

Then for each RR decrease env (and possibly stealth) by 1 and add to cs and weapon.

Mon 13 May 2019 10:15 AM by dstrmberg

Highfather17 wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 2:07 AM
Are there any other charges worth buying?

Yes, IMO:
- 331 dd 1500 range staff charge (cheap from SI necklace quest for casters if you have a caster alt)
- dex/qui debuff charge (crafted on cloth gloves)
- dmg add charge (crafted on cloth gloves)
- Legion heart

Tue 14 May 2019 6:44 AM by Cadebrennus

dstrmberg wrote: ↑
Mon 13 May 2019 10:15 AM
Highfather17 wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 2:07 AM
Are there any other charges worth buying?

Yes, IMO:
- 331 dd 1500 range staff charge (cheap from SI necklace quest for casters if you have a caster alt)
- dex/qui debuff charge (crafted on cloth gloves)
- dmg add charge (crafted on cloth gloves)
- Legion heart

Don't you have to BE a caster to /use that staff?

Tue 14 May 2019 8:39 AM by Lillebror

Only 331DD charge staff i found useble for all got a cast time, and if you move while doing it your charge timer is used (dont remember if the charge it self is used)

That staff drop in Dortmoor and got 3 charges. Think i got 3-4 on CM after i leveled my necro, So i can update later with name on it.

Tue 14 May 2019 8:52 AM by Cadebrennus

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:39 AM
Only 331DD charge staff i found useble for all got a cast time, and if you move while doing it your charge timer is used (dont remember if the charge it self is used)

That staff drop in Dortmoor and got 3 charges. Think i got 3-4 on CM after i leveled my necro, So i can update later with name on it.

Good for /use while rooted it sounds like.

Tue 14 May 2019 9:28 AM by dstrmberg

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 6:44 AM
Don't you have to BE a caster to /use that staff?

Yes, it has to be equipped before use unfortunately, and it has a cast time...

Tue 14 May 2019 9:29 AM by dstrmberg

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:52 AM
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:39 AM
Only 331DD charge staff i found useble for all got a cast time, and if you move while doing it your charge timer is used (dont remember if the charge it self is used)

That staff drop in Dortmoor and got 3 charges. Think i got 3-4 on CM after i leveled my necro, So i can update later with name on it.

Good for /use while rooted it sounds like.

Or on fleeing targets.

Tue 14 May 2019 5:49 PM by Cadebrennus

dstrmberg wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 9:29 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:52 AM
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:39 AM
Only 331DD charge staff i found useble for all got a cast time, and if you move while doing it your charge timer is used (dont remember if the charge it self is used)

That staff drop in Dortmoor and got 3 charges. Think i got 3-4 on CM after i leveled my necro, So i can update later with name on it.

Good for /use while rooted it sounds like.

Or on fleeing targets.

Only useful if you can get the cast time off quickly enough. Firing a bow at regular speed isn't quick enough to finish off a fleeing target, and most charges that are instant aren't enough damage to finish them off either.

That being said, is the re-cast quick enough? Quicker than a bow?

Wed 15 May 2019 4:51 PM by Highfather17

So again

What program should I be using to make a template on this server?

I've been stuck without one for too long.

Please help.

Thu 16 May 2019 2:54 AM by Animosity

Highfather17 wrote: ↑
Wed 15 May 2019 4:51 PM
So again

What program should I be using to make a template on this server?

I've been stuck without one for too long.

Please help.

Loki 1.4. Link at the bottom of the page.
http://www.syntheticrealms.com/loki_daoc/loki_download.php

Sat 18 May 2019 3:52 PM by SlowMo

Since the 75 value d/q isnt availbale anymore, did you change your RA spec due to missing quick?

I am not sure if its worth to go aug qui 3 and moa 3 for example.

The swing speed calcs out there don´t differ the same stages as phoenix so hard to tell for sure.

Sat 18 May 2019 4:22 PM by Animosity

I’m aug quick 4 moa 5. I use a 3.9 main and 3.3 off. So i hit hard but I needed the attack speed boost to swing quicker. If you use a quicker off hand prob don’t need to take them as high.

Sat 18 May 2019 7:55 PM by Yokahu

I’m almost RR6 infil and am thinking on going 50DW, 36 thrust, 35 st, and 34 cs/env.

Have anyone tried 50DW recently? How does the 50DW styles dmg compares to garrote+achilles combo?

Tue 21 May 2019 8:06 AM by Lillebror

what i find sad is that Assassins are to equal now, both Inf vs Inf but also Inf vs SB and NS.

I miss the chance to spec into Dueling Reflexes or Dodger

Now it seems like its Purge and passives (not sure of many uses Viper anymore)

Tue 21 May 2019 10:37 AM by Lillebror

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 5:49 PM
dstrmberg wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 9:29 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:52 AM
Good for /use while rooted it sounds like.

Or on fleeing targets.

Only useful if you can get the cast time off quickly enough. Firing a bow at regular speed isn't quick enough to finish off a fleeing target, and most charges that are instant aren't enough damage to finish them off either.

That being said, is the re-cast quick enough? Quicker than a bow?

Think it was called Barken's Devil Touched Staff
2s cast timer ruined it for me but nice for last hit on fleeing targets or while rooted

Tue 21 May 2019 11:21 AM by Cadebrennus

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 10:37 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 5:49 PM
dstrmberg wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 9:29 AM
Or on fleeing targets.

Only useful if you can get the cast time off quickly enough. Firing a bow at regular speed isn't quick enough to finish off a fleeing target, and most charges that are instant aren't enough damage to finish them off either.

That being said, is the re-cast quick enough? Quicker than a bow?
Think it was called Barken's Devil Touched Staff
2s cast timer ruined it for me but nice for last hit on fleeing targets or while rooted

Thanks! I'll check it out.

Tue 21 May 2019 6:07 PM by jelzinga_EU

Yokahu wrote: ↑
Sat 18 May 2019 7:55 PM
I’m almost RR6 infil and am thinking on going 50DW, 36 thrust, 35 st, and 34 cs/env.

Have anyone tried 50DW recently? How does the 50DW styles dmg compares to garrote+achilles combo?

It's probably better seeing as it applies the bleed and the tick comes immediately, so the GR of the style is sky high (an additional 15-17 damage on a style is huge).

Sat 25 May 2019 9:49 PM by Freedomcall

Most importantly, don't forget to ask theurgists for DA and 19% haste before you leave pk
You won't hardly lose a fight

Tue 28 May 2019 8:08 PM by Lillebror

Im playing in CV, im templated and have tried diffrent specs to kill some of the bd`ds in there.
Fights turn at about 10-15%, they only go down if they have adds on pets or are cc`d

I apply disease with mh and they still outheal/dps me. I tried to kill commander first but it ends in being kited.

Any tips?

Wed 5 Jun 2019 9:45 AM by songfire

What is the consensus on starting stats? I'm planning on thrust Saracen.

Wed 5 Jun 2019 2:51 PM by florin

songfire wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 9:45 AM
What is the consensus on starting stats? I'm planning on thrust Saracen.

str/dex/qui

Wed 5 Jun 2019 3:31 PM by songfire

florin wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 2:51 PM
songfire wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 9:45 AM
What is the consensus on starting stats? I'm planning on thrust Saracen.

str/dex/qui

Appreciate it. Thank you

Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:33 PM by Lillebror

I been looking into debuff procs (since the charge nerf make them more effective) but it doesnt look hot if not procing earlie. And i think im better off just going DoT or DD.
What weapon procs do ppl try to build in? Many that swap proc type as soon they proc?
Do player made proc at same rate as drop?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:20 AM by Cadebrennus

florin wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 2:51 PM
songfire wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 9:45 AM
What is the consensus on starting stats? I'm planning on thrust Saracen.

str/dex/qui

I did the same but after I leveled up my Sarc I ran the numbers through a character builder and it seems that the +10 qui isn't statistically significant in terms of putting out DPS. When I can get a stats respec stone I'm going to try 10 str/ 15 Dex. It looks like I will get more milage, so to speak, with even 5 more points of Dex. It affects thrust damage, boosts your hidden WS, and affects evade/etc.

What are your thoughts?

Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:22 AM by florin

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:20 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 2:51 PM
songfire wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 9:45 AM
What is the consensus on starting stats? I'm planning on thrust Saracen.

str/dex/qui

I did the same but after I leveled up my Sarc I ran the numbers through a character builder and it seems that the +10 qui isn't statistically significant in terms of putting out DPS. When I can get a stats respec stone I'm going to try 10 str/ 15 Dex. It looks like I will get more milage, so to speak, with even 5 more points of Dex. It affects thrust damage, boosts your hidden WS, and affects evade/etc.

What are your thoughts?

It could be that you get more out of that combo but I was never a fan of losing points if I could avoid it. Qui still affects evade and swing speed which as a Saracen you could have capped 250 qui with 9 at start and Aug qui 2 plus the 75 charge. Now your 25 behind and not putting any into it would put you 35 down so you would have to invest with ra to cover that gap unless you’re ok with swing less but harder. But some have said their fights resembles two pallies going at it.

Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:38 AM by Cadebrennus

florin wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 2:22 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:20 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Jun 2019 2:51 PM
str/dex/qui

I did the same but after I leveled up my Sarc I ran the numbers through a character builder and it seems that the +10 qui isn't statistically significant in terms of putting out DPS. When I can get a stats respec stone I'm going to try 10 str/ 15 Dex. It looks like I will get more milage, so to speak, with even 5 more points of Dex. It affects thrust damage, boosts your hidden WS, and affects evade/etc.

What are your thoughts?
It could be that you get more out of that combo but I was never a fan of losing points if I could avoid it. Qui still affects evade and swing speed which as a Saracen you could have capped 250 qui with 9 at start and Aug qui 2 plus the 75 charge. Now your 25 behind and not putting any into it would put you 35 down so you would have to invest with ra to cover that gap unless you’re ok with swing less but harder. But some have said their fights resembles two pallies going at it.

Good way to put it all except for the "going at it" part. Two pallies. Yuck.

I completely forgot that evade is Dex/Qui and not 100% Dex so yes, you are correct there might be something lost in the evade. I'll make sure to pay attention to the calculator in that respect.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 8:40 PM by mhenfhis

any1 calculated how much you lose not going 52 comp¿ want to try merc infil sub rr6 but than means i have to give up something

Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:11 PM by gotwqqd

What’s to give up?
If you go 50dw you drop cs to15

Fri 14 Jun 2019 8:44 PM by mhenfhis

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Jun 2019 10:11 PM
What’s to give up?
If you go 50dw you drop cs to15

Want to go 50dw 34cs sub rr6

Fri 14 Jun 2019 9:14 PM by Lillebror

Its like kids, give them finger they want whole hand =). Mercinf with pa and follow up =).

I want same and wondered about dropping lifebane on mine.

Sun 14 Jul 2019 12:29 PM by Highfather17

This is a great thread. I got my inf temp'ed in no time thx to OP.

New question

I'm rr4l5...what RA's should I have now?

And what RA's should I progress toward?

Sat 20 Jul 2019 4:31 PM by Fugax

Highfather17 wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jul 2019 12:29 PM
This is a great thread. I got my inf temp'ed in no time thx to OP.

New question

I'm rr4l5...what RA's should I have now?

And what RA's should I progress toward?

Hard to answer your question as far as RA's since everyone can play an inf so different.
Long Wind/tireless
Vanish 1
PUrge 2 or 3
MOP
Depending on yr swing spd u may want to look into aug quic or MOA to get that closest to 1.5spd.

Thu 22 Aug 2019 11:47 PM by Chozen_45

how would a good Infi Lvl 24 Thid specc would look like?

high CS still worth? or do i loose too much thrust/dual wield for it?

so many skills(evenom,stealth too) and so mini points ^^

ty for opinion´s

Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:06 AM by gotwqqd

Chozen_45 wrote: ↑
Thu 22 Aug 2019 11:47 PM
how would a good Infi Lvl 24 Thid specc would look like?

high CS still worth? or do i loose too much thrust/dual wield for it?

so many skills(evenom,stealth too) and so mini points ^^

ty for opinion´s

I’d cap out dw/weapon stealth and envenom
Rest in cs
21dw
19 weapon/stealth
15 venom

Maybe you get backstab

Sat 26 Oct 2019 9:06 PM by gotwqqd

Slash Brit
50 DW
34CS
35 St
33 Env
37 Slash
As RR goes up Slash rises while st/env lower env stays for two levels to reach 50

Will this be viable?

Thu 31 Oct 2019 12:55 AM by Highfather17

Hey fellow infs

What's a good rr7 spec?

I'm thinking 50 cs but I dunno.

And ra's? I'm thinking MOP7 Aug Quick 5 vanish1 purge3 lw/tireless toughness/aug con 2

Would like input!

Thu 31 Oct 2019 1:41 AM by gotwqqd

Highfather17 wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Oct 2019 12:55 AM
Hey fellow infs

What's a good rr7 spec?

I'm thinking 50 cs but I dunno.

And ra's? I'm thinking MOP7 Aug Quick 5 vanish1 purge3 lw/tireless toughness/aug con 2

Would like input!

I’d go 33 St/50DW/34Weapon/33Env/39CS

Fri 1 Nov 2019 1:00 AM by Highfather17

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Oct 2019 1:41 AM
Highfather17 wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Oct 2019 12:55 AM
Hey fellow infs

What's a good rr7 spec?

I'm thinking 50 cs but I dunno.

And ra's? I'm thinking MOP7 Aug Quick 5 vanish1 purge3 lw/tireless toughness/aug con 2

Would like input!
I’d go 33 St/50DW/34Weapon/33Env/39CS

That's crazy!

I'd be a mercinf.

Wed 13 Nov 2019 7:59 PM by Schnuwe

hi , anyone else noticed that pa get no growrate shown here ? tried now a few times with guildmate and checked pa loc after fight . each style has growrate exept perforate arterie. only an issue on my side ?

Wed 13 Nov 2019 8:57 PM by Mavella

Schnuwe wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Nov 2019 7:59 PM
hi , anyone else noticed that pa get no growrate shown here ? tried now a few times with guildmate and checked pa loc after fight . each style has growrate exept perforate arterie. only an issue on my side ?

PA and (I believe) Backstab are the only styles that have a flat +bonus damage with spec and +skills. This means there is no growth rate multiplier on them.

Wed 13 Nov 2019 9:22 PM by vxr

Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Nov 2019 8:57 PM
Schnuwe wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Nov 2019 7:59 PM
hi , anyone else noticed that pa get no growrate shown here ? tried now a few times with guildmate and checked pa loc after fight . each style has growrate exept perforate arterie. only an issue on my side ?

PA and (I believe) Backstab are the only styles that have a flat +bonus damage with spec and +skills. This means there is no growth rate multiplier on them.

Nice screenshot

Thu 14 Nov 2019 5:23 PM by Svperstar

I haven't read this whole thread. My inf is almost 50, is there a good list of Inf templates with maybe a Loki profle? Is there a good link to Loki or another program?

Thanks.

Thu 14 Nov 2019 11:00 PM by Mavella

Svperstar wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Nov 2019 5:23 PM
I haven't read this whole thread. My inf is almost 50, is there a good list of Inf templates with maybe a Loki profle? Is there a good link to Loki or another program?

Thanks.

Because everyone uses ROGs in many of their accessory slots there is unfortunately no standard template to copy.
If you use crafted weapons a template can be pretty easy. When you get into 1h free or weaponless the templates get pretty expensive. Usually you need an average utility of 80ish+ on your accessories to be able to make a weapon less temp depending on stat overlap with the rogs.

The hardest part about template making is sifting through all the garbage on the ME to find the decent utility items that are also decently priced.

With pending proc changes a weaponless template may also become totally obsolete depending on if or how they make those changes. I'd check out that thread before investing a bundle on anything too fancy.

Edit: I also believe I searched Google from Loki and downloaded the 1.4 version right from his website.

Thu 14 Nov 2019 11:23 PM by Svperstar

Mavella wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Nov 2019 11:00 PM
Because everyone uses ROGs in many of their accessory slots there is unfortunately no standard template to copy.
If you use crafted weapons a template can be pretty easy. When you get into 1h free or weaponless the templates get pretty expensive. Usually you need an average utility of 80ish+ on your accessories to be able to make a weapon less temp depending on stat overlap with the rogs.

The hardest part about template making is sifting through all the garbage on the ME to find the decent utility items that are also decently priced.

With pending proc changes a weaponless template may also become totally obsolete depending on if or how they make those changes. I'd check out that thread before investing a bundle on anything too fancy.

Edit: I also believe I searched Google from Loki and downloaded the 1.4 version right from his website.

I was going to get the Sidi chest, I have enough feathers I just haven't bought it yet. Another other feather items just for Inf?

Fri 15 Nov 2019 12:17 AM by Mavella

Svperstar wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Nov 2019 11:23 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Nov 2019 11:00 PM
Because everyone uses ROGs in many of their accessory slots there is unfortunately no standard template to copy.
If you use crafted weapons a template can be pretty easy. When you get into 1h free or weaponless the templates get pretty expensive. Usually you need an average utility of 80ish+ on your accessories to be able to make a weapon less temp depending on stat overlap with the rogs.

The hardest part about template making is sifting through all the garbage on the ME to find the decent utility items that are also decently priced.

With pending proc changes a weaponless template may also become totally obsolete depending on if or how they make those changes. I'd check out that thread before investing a bundle on anything too fancy.

Edit: I also believe I searched Google from Loki and downloaded the 1.4 version right from his website.

I was going to get the Sidi chest, I have enough feathers I just haven't bought it yet. Another other feather items just for Inf?

I'm not the most fimilar with alb specific items (sorry). Sidi chest is a standard. Often times people like feather weapons for specific procs. You'll want an item with an 150 value ablative charge. Some sort of damage add charge. A legion heart for heal charge. Some items might offer a lot of value utility that may be worthwhile but good ROGs are pretty cheap. Rest of the armor besides epic chest are usually crafted.

Fri 15 Nov 2019 12:12 PM by Freedomcall

Svperstar wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Nov 2019 11:23 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Nov 2019 11:00 PM
Because everyone uses ROGs in many of their accessory slots there is unfortunately no standard template to copy.
If you use crafted weapons a template can be pretty easy. When you get into 1h free or weaponless the templates get pretty expensive. Usually you need an average utility of 80ish+ on your accessories to be able to make a weapon less temp depending on stat overlap with the rogs.

The hardest part about template making is sifting through all the garbage on the ME to find the decent utility items that are also decently priced.

With pending proc changes a weaponless template may also become totally obsolete depending on if or how they make those changes. I'd check out that thread before investing a bundle on anything too fancy.

Edit: I also believe I searched Google from Loki and downloaded the 1.4 version right from his website.

I was going to get the Sidi chest, I have enough feathers I just haven't bought it yet. Another other feather items just for Inf?

If you are slash, you can use dmg add, s/c debuff and DoT proc weaps.
If you are thrust, you can use dmg add, d/q debuff and DoT proc weaps.
I suggest you postpone your templating thou.
Devs announced they will introduce more customizablility for procs on your gears, so you may have to re-template once it goes live.

Fri 15 Nov 2019 2:13 PM by Svperstar

Svperstar wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Nov 2019 11:23 PM
If you are slash, you can use dmg add, s/c debuff and DoT proc weaps.
If you are thrust, you can use dmg add, d/q debuff and DoT proc weaps.
I suggest you postpone your templating thou.
Devs announced they will introduce more customizablility for procs on your gears, so you may have to re-template once it goes live.

Good to know, on Uthgard I wasted time on crappy templates before I made my "real" templates and I regretted doing it that way.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 12:12 AM by Schnuwe

Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Nov 2019 8:57 PM
Schnuwe wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Nov 2019 7:59 PM
hi , anyone else noticed that pa get no growrate shown here ? tried now a few times with guildmate and checked pa loc after fight . each style has growrate exept perforate arterie. only an issue on my side ?

PA and (I believe) Backstab are the only styles that have a flat +bonus damage with spec and +skills. This means there is no growth rate multiplier on them.

thx for the answer , but as i learned the two backstabs has no growrate , but the pa has . on live it was over 2.xx atm and befor on 1.76. the first thing i had a look on was the old daocpedia database ( german: https://daocpedia.com/index.php?title=Meuchelmord) there it was like i remembered .

2. found on pendragon patch "Level 21 – Perforate Artery – Frontal stealth opener – growth rate and damage increased signficantly, 10s duration armor wither effect added"
https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/1121-pendragon-patch-notes
that means for me PA has a grow rate

Fri 22 Nov 2019 4:18 PM by

gruenesschaf

Schnuwe wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Nov 2019 12:12 AM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Nov 2019 8:57 PM
Schnuwe wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Nov 2019 7:59 PM
hi , anyone else noticed that pa get no growrate shown here ? tried now a few times with guildmate and checked pa loc after fight . each style has growrate exept perforate arterie. only an issue on my side ?

PA and (I believe) Backstab are the only styles that have a flat +bonus damage with spec and +skills. This means there is no growth rate multiplier on them.

thx for the answer , but as i learned the two backstabs has no growrate , but the pa has . on live it was over 2.xx atm and befor on 1.76. the first thing i had a look on was the old daocpedia database ( german: https://daocpedia.com/index.php?title=Meuchelmord) there it was like i remembered .

2. found on pendragon patch "Level 21 – Perforate Artery – Frontal stealth opener – growth rate and damage increased signficantly, 10s duration armor wither effect added"
https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/1121-pendragon-patch-notes
that means for me PA has a grow rate

Single value growth rates are and have always been wrong / just an approximation. However, since basically all styles changed we were forced to use the well known ones for pretty much all styles except BS1+2 and PA. PA still has the issue that the scaling below ~30ish CS spec is off and after ~44 CS is slightly too high.
Styles are supposed to have a base damage value and another value that scales with the modified (base + rr + items) spec above the level you learn the style, the base is usually like the growth value * spec but for some styles, like the stealth opener, this base value is a lot higher, in case of PA we have the base damage too low and the growth value too high.
For all styles except the stealth opener this value is multiplied by the actual swing speed (stealth opener use a fixed weapon speed for 1h and another fixed weapon speed for 2h, which is why the only difference between a 1.4 dagger and a 4.1 sword is the unstyled damage of those weapons in case of stealth openers, easily testable still on pend against the level 1 dummy to see cap values), this value is then further multiplied by parts of the damage modifier and then added to the unstyled / base damage.

The easiest place to see growth rates breaking down is the starter styles or the stealth opener, no growth rate can explain the supposed bonus either should receive, the testing in 2012 then came to the conclusion that there are these base and growth values.

See https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Melee_Damage which summarizes the 2012 melee testing and is the basis for our melee stuff.

Thu 28 Nov 2019 4:25 PM by Svperstar

The latest patch notes say:

"fixed infiltrator dual shadows bleed damage"

Does that mean it does more damage or less?

Thu 28 Nov 2019 5:21 PM by chois

less 210 before now 130

Fri 29 Nov 2019 8:44 AM by Razur Ur

SB´s, Infis and NS all to strong and needed nerf :-D

Wed 18 Dec 2019 10:29 PM by Seb

Long time sin lover trying to make a comeback, after starting on this server 4 weeks ago.

So far I only played as vis on here but now I finally gathered lvl items, got some good rogs and will start converting that into project infi tomorow.

Slash seems to be > thrust according to what I've read so far which would make Briton the logical choice since they also get slightly better resis (no one uses pierce and weapon based dot is matter iirc.

I wouldve preferred Sara, but I can deal with Briton.

What's the consensus on starting stats? 10 str 10 qui 10 con? 15 str 10 qui?

Now, coming back to the initial assumption. Why is slash considered that much better? I get that the 15% swing vs sbs and a 10% loss vs ns leaves you at 5% net positive, but you also lose the direct stun. Maybe someone with some experience can tell me

I guess that for thrust Sara would still be the way to go (though still their resis are weaker imho)? 10 str 10 dex 10 qui? does sara hit the 250 cap? is 10 con viable due to the hp buff?

Sara Slasher would probably also not be the end of the world given that you only trade 10 str for 10 qui which you could then rearange via ras (getting aug str instead of moa etc.)

Specwise I was planning on trying either mercfiltrator with 21 cs till rr5 or default cs spec (like 36 stelath/env 44 cs 38 weapon 37dw) and going for the 50 dw 34 cs mercfil spec at 5 wo lifebane or 6 with.

Any tipps appreciated. Cheers

Fri 13 Mar 2020 9:03 AM by SlowMo

I am kind of in the same thinking process.

Playing sara thrust inf - dmg vs SB is just pityful. Every slasher mobs the floor with me :-)

Really thinking of race resperccing and going for slash.

Wed 18 Mar 2020 11:22 AM by evincare

Since that hasn‘t been answered yet, I‘ll chime in here instead of making a new thread. I‘m yet another one in the same situation

I played a SB on EU Servers back in the day and wanted to give inf a shot here. Problem is, if I go slash, it‘ll be a brit, if thrust, sara. I know the damage tables and why slash is considered superior in that part. But a 9 second stun directly off an evade seems almost too good to pass up. Granted, you‘d have to go 50 thrust for that but infs get tons of points anyway

i would have killed for something like that on my SB. Iirc we had 2 2part off-evade stun chains, one in sword and the other in LA. Plenty of times the first part would hit, the second would not. So off evade 9 sec stun seems juicy.

Question is, is it even viable to take thrust this high without gimping anything else? I get sin vs sin fights you very rarely get a pa off - let alone a chain. Same with many other visibles who aren‘t wearing Pyjamas. So they‘d have purge ready for that anyway...

Tldr: are there viable inf specs with 50 thrust? If so, is a 9 sec off evade stun worth it and does it offset the bonus slash gets. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Wed 18 Mar 2020 12:42 PM by Amser

evincare wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Mar 2020 11:22 AM
Since that hasn‘t been answered yet, I‘ll chime in here instead of making a new thread. I‘m yet another one in the same situation

I played a SB on EU Servers back in the day and wanted to give inf a shot here. Problem is, if I go slash, it‘ll be a brit, if thrust, sara. I know the damage tables and why slash is considered superior in that part. But a 9 second stun directly off an evade seems almost too good to pass up. Granted, you‘d have to go 50 thrust for that but infs get tons of points anyway i would have killed for something like that on my SB. Iirc we had 2 2part off-evade stun chains, one in sword and the other in LA. Plenty of times the first part would hit, the second would not. So off evade 9 sec stun seems juicy.

Question is, is it even viable to take thrust this high without gimping anything else? I get sin vs sin fights you very rarely get a pa off - let alone a chain. Same with many other visibles who aren‘t wearing Pyjamas. So they‘d have purge ready for that anyway...

Tldr: are there viable inf specs with 50 thrust? If so, is a 9 sec off evade stun worth it and does it offset the bonus slash gets. Any input is greatly appreciated.

There are a few viable inf specs with 50 thrust.

Would i recommend any of them? -No, not really

Why? -purge

fights are going to go like this:
1. enemy has purge up and so do you? -fairfight, but you are thrust so you will have the short end of the stick
2. enemy does not have purge up and neither do you? -fairfight, you will have a slightly better stun at 9s but you are still thrust
3. enemy has purge and you do not? - your likely screwed, good luck
4. enemy does not have purge and you do? - you should be able to win with the 5s or 7s stun.

In reality, the 9s stun isn't going to help a ton. If you are looking at just theory and not probability of the chances above, it will effect >50% of your battles. It will effect 25% where it might have made a difference.
If you are choosing your targets, as most assassins do, the number goes down quickly to probably less than 10%. As most caster classes are never going to swing at you anyways and the CD 6s stun is used on them. Most of your battles that come down to small differences like this will be "sin vs sin" and you are already lowest on the totem pole as thrust inf (ignoring pierce NS exists). The thought is, why waste the points on something that is going to get purged most of the time anyway when you can spec in something that can't get purged.

-from a rr8 thrust inf

Wed 18 Mar 2020 12:45 PM by inoeth

evincare wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Mar 2020 11:22 AM
Since that hasn‘t been answered yet, I‘ll chime in here instead of making a new thread. I‘m yet another one in the same situation

I played a SB on EU Servers back in the day and wanted to give inf a shot here. Problem is, if I go slash, it‘ll be a brit, if thrust, sara. I know the damage tables and why slash is considered superior in that part. But a 9 second stun directly off an evade seems almost too good to pass up. Granted, you‘d have to go 50 thrust for that but infs get tons of points anyway i would have killed for something like that on my SB. Iirc we had 2 2part off-evade stun chains, one in sword and the other in LA. Plenty of times the first part would hit, the second would not. So off evade 9 sec stun seems juicy.

Question is, is it even viable to take thrust this high without gimping anything else? I get sin vs sin fights you very rarely get a pa off - let alone a chain. Same with many other visibles who aren‘t wearing Pyjamas. So they‘d have purge ready for that anyway...

Tldr: are there viable inf specs with 50 thrust? If so, is a 9 sec off evade stun worth it and does it offset the bonus slash gets. Any input is greatly appreciated.

as a hunter i really love 50 thrust infils, they go down so fast and do no dmg ;D even if purge is down they are no problem in most cases ;D

Wed 18 Mar 2020 11:40 PM by Taniquetil

Most thrust infs

Thrust inf is probably the most underrated and under utilised specs currently, has huge potential if done right. Thrust styles are super powerful when utilised correctly.

Have beaten RR9, 10 and 11 NS's as a RR2 or 3 Thrust infi. Yes they were buffed and had purge etc up.

Just dont waste going to 50 for the 9sec stun, if you cant win with a 6sec stun you're in trouble anyway, and you need to rip their purge out first before going for the stun.

Thu 19 Mar 2020 6:08 PM by evincare

Well first and foremost TY all very much for your replies. Moron me didn't even realize, the 6second stun is also directly off an evade...

So from what i gather from your answers, thrust is just as fine as slash. Stylewise thrust gets a 6s stun directly off an evade - at 15 - while slash gets a 5s stun off an evade 2chain. Looking at the rest of the styles thrust has way more utility than slash. Although one would use primarily CS styles anyway (or DW if something like a shadowzerk exists in Albion

)

Damagetables we all know: slash is better vs mid leather, while thrust gets no noticeable bonuses vs shades, Rangers, SB and Hunters, the latter being a pita because resistant... It boils down to those tables then? I know in Mid there's a huge debate on weapon choices, as far as "hammers are better than swords because better procs" and so on. Is one weapon type considered better than the other as far as procs go in Alb? Tbh at the moment i'm leaning toward thrust and saracen

So to start out, one would spec comp 50 stealth, env and weapon, high CS (44?) rest DW?

TYVM for your time and patience

It's been quite some time

Wed 25 Mar 2020 8:10 AM by SlowMo

Any Inf out there going with Basalt Swords?
How do they perform? Worth it?

And how far do you push your MoArms, having kind of trouble to decide because all Swing Speed calcs are using Standard MoArms Values

Mon 30 Mar 2020 7:54 AM by mhenfhis

SlowMo wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 8:10 AM
Any Inf out there going with Basalt Swords?
How do they perform? Worth it?

And how far do you push your MoArms, having kind of trouble to decide because all Swing Speed calcs are using Standard MoArms Values

Check the post at rvr section you will find a excel that will help you.

Mon 30 Mar 2020 9:16 AM by SlowMo

mhenfhis wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 7:54 AM
Check the post at rvr section you will find a excel that will help you.

I just can find a XLS Sheet for Cast Speed thou

Mon 30 Mar 2020 2:55 PM by mhenfhis

SlowMo wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 9:16 AM
mhenfhis wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 7:54 AM
Check the post at rvr section you will find a excel that will help you.

I just can find a XLS Sheet for Cast Speed thou

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G3YNfILQigMuZnNJ0439Wl2_04wZtVdaasd2bJsJa-8/edit?usp=sharing

Tue 31 Mar 2020 6:54 AM by SlowMo

Thx Man!

Fri 10 Apr 2020 9:39 AM by Dr4ag

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Mar 2020 12:45 PM
evincare wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Mar 2020 11:22 AM
Since that hasn‘t been answered yet, I‘ll chime in here instead of making a new thread. I‘m yet another one in the same situation

I played a SB on EU Servers back in the day and wanted to give inf a shot here. Problem is, if I go slash, it‘ll be a brit, if thrust, sara. I know the damage tables and why slash is considered superior in that part. But a 9 second stun directly off an evade seems almost too good to pass up. Granted, you‘d have to go 50 thrust for that but infs get tons of points anyway i would have killed for something like that on my SB. Iirc we had 2 2part off-evade stun chains, one in sword and the other in LA. Plenty of times the first part would hit, the second would not. So off evade 9 sec stun seems juicy.

Question is, is it even viable to take thrust this high without gimping anything else? I get sin vs sin fights you very rarely get a pa off - let alone a chain. Same with many other visibles who aren‘t wearing Pyjamas. So they‘d have purge ready for that anyway...

Tldr: are there viable inf specs with 50 thrust? If so, is a 9 sec off evade stun worth it and does it offset the bonus slash gets. Any input is greatly appreciated.

as a hunter i really love 50 thrust infils, they go down so fast and do no dmg ;D even if purge is down they are no problem in most cases ;D

Hmm hmm not sure, against me you need all and i sometime get you

50/50
Therabbin

Wed 22 Apr 2020 6:12 PM by cmraz

So just finished my template. Everything is capped and I'm running Combi/abla charge etc...

Is it the fact that I'm only 2L5 that I can't even hit anyone for over 90 dmg mainhand?

Every single person I've fought I can't do more than that.

I don't know what the deal is.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 6:16 PM by Saroi

cmraz wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 6:12 PM
So just finished my template. Everything is capped and I'm running Combi/abla charge etc...

Is it the fact that I'm only 2L5 that I can't even hit anyone for over 90 dmg mainhand?

Every single person I've fought I can't do more than that.

I don't know what the deal is.

What is your spec?

Wed 22 Apr 2020 6:36 PM by Cadebrennus

cmraz wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 6:12 PM
So just finished my template. Everything is capped and I'm running Combi/abla charge etc...

Is it the fact that I'm only 2L5 that I can't even hit anyone for over 90 dmg mainhand?

Every single person I've fought I can't do more than that.

I don't know what the deal is.

What is your spec? What styles are you using? What are your buffed/temped stats? Also, in the combat log, are you seeing the damage after an ablative proc or /use?

Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:43 AM by SlowMo

In terms of Damage and WS: What is better to level up as you progress throu ranks and can reinvest points saved from stealth and envenom?

Right now I am DW 50 spec, comp 52 Slash (36+16) and comp 51 Crit (35+16)

With next RR up i will bring Crit to comp 52 and have points left to either pump slash or crit

So basicly the question is Slash or Crit for better WS and/or dmg?

TY

Fri 24 Apr 2020 9:23 AM by inoeth

SlowMo wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:43 AM
In terms of Damage and WS: What is better to level up as you progress throu ranks and can reinvest points saved from stealth and envenom?

Right now I am DW 50 spec, comp 52 Slash (36+16) and comp 51 Crit (35+16)

With next RR up i will bring Crit to comp 52 and have points left to either pump slash or crit

So basicly the question is Slash or Crit for better WS and/or dmg?

TY

depending on styles you use but i guess since you are an assassin you are going to use CS styles so you want to upp that line
slash would only make sense to spec past 52 comp if you were using slash styles ... everything past 52 only increases style dmg

Fri 24 Apr 2020 6:51 PM by cmraz

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 6:36 PM
cmraz wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 6:12 PM
So just finished my template. Everything is capped and I'm running Combi/abla charge etc...

Is it the fact that I'm only 2L5 that I can't even hit anyone for over 90 dmg mainhand?

Every single person I've fought I can't do more than that.

I don't know what the deal is.

What is your spec? What styles are you using? What are your buffed/temped stats? Also, in the combat log, are you seeing the damage after an ablative proc or /use?

50 comp stealth/env, 52 comp slash, 50CS, 25DW
238 Str with combi pot.

Basalt Sword/Azure Slicer
Garrote/Achilles for anytime, Riposte/Beffudler for stun, then obviously Hammy chain after.

I know the 238 strength is less than impressive, but I haven't been able to pick up any aug str yet. Right now I'm running Purge II/Vanish/Pain II/LW/Tireless.

and yea majority of my fights are loaded with ablatives so that's partial explanation, but I just fought a RR9 NS and once ablatives were gone I was still only hitting for 90 tops.

Sat 25 Apr 2020 6:11 AM by SlowMo

Sounds like you were strength debuffed in this case.
Which poisons do you apply? Do you refresh them after purge?

And NS is resistant to slash

Thu 30 Apr 2020 7:03 AM by asnusia

Is a good idea to use this weapon for a thrust infi?

main hand:
-3.3 dmg add
-3.3 dq debuff
-3.9 rog/crafted with dd/lifetap/dot

offhand:
2.2 speed rog to maximize swing speed

Mon 4 May 2020 11:20 AM by dalinvar

hi,
i'm leveling my first infi and would like to ask some info:

1) where to put starting stats point as an Inconnu?
2) what spec for leveling?
3) where i can buy venom?

thanks

Tue 5 May 2020 2:37 PM by gydeonphoenix

I'm looking for a May 2020 update on this thread in regards to charges, items, etc.

Are the s/c and d/q charges now gone?

Is there any item to use for other stats or do you just use combined pots now + endo and damage shield pots?

Thanks.

Sat 3 Apr 2021 3:48 AM by Yokahu

gydeonphoenix wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 2:37 PM
I'm looking for a May 2020 update on this thread in regards to charges, items, etc.

Are the s/c and d/q charges now gone?

Is there any item to use for other stats or do you just use combined pots now + endo and damage shield pots?

Thanks.

I’m also looking for an update (in 2021 thou). I’ve been away for about 2 years and I’m pretty lost with my RR6L5 infil. Haven’t taken it to PvP yet.

Sat 3 Apr 2021 1:40 PM by Saroi

Yokahu wrote: ↑
Sat 3 Apr 2021 3:48 AM
I’m also looking for an update (in 2021 thou). I’ve been away for about 2 years and I’m pretty lost with my RR6L5 infil. Haven’t taken it to PvP yet.

Not sure what you really know but a short summary of the bigger changes that happened since start of Phoenix and that I could think of right away.

- There has been a HP buff. It is similiar to live Champ level.
- Bleeds stack to a total of 50 dmg (37 dmg with 26% resist). For Infs Dual Shadows(50 DW Front Attack) bleed has been lowered to 13 damage. (used to be 25). So if you use 4x Dual Shadows, your bleed will do 37 damage on every tick for 40 seconds.
- Melee have variance now.
- Enervating poison(Ws/con debuff) has been changed. The poison hits before PA or Backstab(Only those 2 opener attacks!). Meaning if you PA, your poison will lower the enemies HP(except if resist) and then your pa will do damage. Because of this change. Enervating poison has its value lowered by 15% and PA damage got lowered by a bit too.
- Armor/weapon dot proc damage has been buffed a bit and dealing more consistant damage.
- Armor weakness(vulnerable) have been lowered to 5% more damage.(used to be 10%).
- Archers and Sins have the same detection range on each other.
- The bits and pieces NPC now has lifetap proc for crafted weapons

Sat 3 Apr 2021 7:01 PM by Yokahu

Saroi wrote: ↑
Sat 3 Apr 2021 1:40 PM
Yokahu wrote: ↑
Sat 3 Apr 2021 3:48 AM
I’m also looking for an update (in 2021 thou). I’ve been away for about 2 years and I’m pretty lost with my RR6L5 infil. Haven’t taken it to PvP yet.

Not sure what you really know but a short summary of the bigger changes that happened since start of Phoenix and that I could think of right away.

Wow thanks for the summary, there was a lot I didn’t know.
Is the 50DW style worth it anymore with the change to bleed?-I guess only if you spam it. If not, which style should be the anytime style for a mercfil?