November 2019: XP, QoL and Balance Changes

Started 7 Nov 2019
by gruenesschaf
in Planned Changes
A couple upcoming changes affecting xp, qol and some the rvr balance. There will primarily be 2 roll outs each may or may not be spread over a couple days, one with (for the most part) non controversial changes and a slightly later one where the changes are expected to receive negative feedback and we just want to give a chance to see valuable feedback to see if we missed something and not just pointless whining. Depending on feedback some of these may or may not become subject of a vote later on.

Part 1, eta over the next 1 - 3 days, items that receive unexpected feedback may or may not be delayed slightly:


1) Bounty points will be shared across all your characters per realm per account, like money

2)Professions will be shared across all your characters per realm per account, for existing characters the highest value per profession will be used. (If one of your current chars has 1200 alchemy and the other 1100 you would end up with 1200).
3)The social xp bonus will be reworked
- the unique class constraint will be removed
- the given % bonus will be adjusted to be the inverse of their natural desirability for groups as seen so far
-- certain classes will be reduced to 1% bonus (pbae caster)
-- many classes will be reduced to 3% (e. g. well represented support, most remaining caster)
-- some classes will be increased to 6% (some melees, warden)
-- a few classes will be increased to 9% (some melees)

4) Increased customizability for procs
Existing procs will become replaceable, this will be for player crafted items only at first and may or may not be opened up for all items later on. At the same time we will also introduce some npc that will take the most expensive craftable proc together with any item that has a proc on it (not a charge) and in return you will receive the proc that this item had on it to apply it to any of your weapons or armor, please note that until (if ever) we make procs on non crafted items replaceable you will only be able to apply this proc to crafted armor / weapons.
This proc that you receive will become an offensive proc when applied to weapons, a reactive proc when applied to armor and proc for both cases when applied to a shield. Please note that both the most expensive craftable proc as well as the item you give to this npc will be destroyed.
Example:
You give the craftable epic heal proc as well as some rog weapon with a 95 delve lifedrain proc to the npc, these items are now destroyed but in return you receive a proc item with the 95 delve lifedrain proc that you can freely apply to one of your weapons or armor pieces. The same would also work for the epic dungeon chests to receive the higher heal proc.

5) Task XP Rework
- collection task turn in limitations will be removed
- drop rate for collection task items will be adjusted
- 2 new location dependent kill tasks will be added: kill mobs in classic overworld zones, kill mobs in si overworld zones
- completing a task will result in receiving a new item that can be traded as well as turned in at your trainer, turning in these items represents another task where the turn in requirements per task level follow the fibonacci sequence (1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34....), that means everyone will without any effort at all complete the first couple levels while making higher levels of this task pretty much unattainable giving a reason to either save or sell remaining tokens or to use them with other characters. Completing this new turn in task will itself not provide a task completion token.
- the xp reward for task completions (kill x animals etc., rvr tasks) will be changed to your level * the xp you would receive for a mob of your level, this is an increase up to level 19 and an increasing reduction from there on, at level 49 this would be a reduction to 25% of the current value. Please note that collection task item turn in is tied to the same reward system but instead of using your current level these turn ins will always use the minimum level of the item.
- gold reward will be adjusted in two ways, 1) in part due to the now more available tasks the reward itself will be lowered in general and 2) the reward will become static, using the average mob value times some multiplier and not the current random 75% - 125% mob value times some multiplier.

6) Body Type XP Rework
Initially the plan / hope was to have a dynamic system that encourages people to seek out new spots and at the beginning it certainly worked well, however, due to how the dynamic bonus is determined there isn't really ever a change. To get back to the original intention we're changing it to be determined daily (will survive restarts as it will depend on the date), one body type will receive 50% bonus another 75%, another 150% and finally another 200%.

7) Dense spawn areas will see some of their mobs receive spells that should not affect normal group play much, this only applies to classic and si zones
Example spells: a low damage instant cast snare nuke with a 10 second cool down
This will only affect the beach in albion and the red caps in moderna in midgard for now, more spots may or may not be changed or this might be rolled back depending on what happens in game.

Part 2


1) For player characters the HP per con modifier will be increased as if characters had a certain champion level, this assumed champion level will be the same for all classes except full tanks (arms, hero, warrior), there it will be a couple champion levels higher.

2) NPCs will receive a damage increase via an increase to their damage table, this will not affect certain pets that had manual adjustments (e.g. theurgist earth pets, hunter pet), this increase will not affect the defense penetration. As the damage table represents a multiplicator this will also increase the absolute damage change caused by strength buffs / debuffs. The expected damage of this damage table increase will be between 10 and 30%, depending on the mob.

3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:26 AM by Norad
Good to see some much needed changes to get this server away from the caster meta that it has been plagued with since day 1. Need more balance in rvr groups.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:37 AM by Hector
Looks really good across the board. Glad to see thoughtful changes about involving more classes for the PvE aspect, and in RvR getting these rank 11 casters off their high horses somewhat
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:39 AM by elninost0rm
You do realize that a lot of these abilities were available back in the day, but everyone sucked, so nobody ran efficient caster groups, right?

Hell, most people didn't even know you could mouse pan.

They're still going to rip you, probably because they're just better at the game.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:41 AM by Shohdef
3) The social xp bonus will be reworked

Thank god. It might be worthwhile to actually be able to level those classes that straight up can't get groups because they are "undesirable" for leveling.

Also the beach in Alb SI technically is not livelike. It is nothing like it is on Phoenix on retail. So why is an error from way back in DOL's day carried over?
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:50 AM by Ceen
In times of people having permanet 500 % xp bonus from completing instnace dungeons no one cares about social bonus.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:02 PM by canzian
If I destroy 5 epic vest and I take 5 heal proc 230hp, I can put it on all armor or only in other vest?
Sorry for my english
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:04 PM by gruenesschaf
canzian wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:02 PM
If I destroy 5 epic vest and I take 5 heal proc 230hp, I can put it on all armor or only in other vest?
Sorry for my english

All armor pieces and even weapons as these procs will become either offensive, reactive or both depending on what items they are applied to.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:12 PM by Hector
Ceen wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:50 AM
In times of people having permanet 500 % xp bonus from completing instnace dungeons no one cares about social bonus.

I’ve played since launch day and never once did anything to get permanent xp bonus. Some of us don’t like to PvE and still want to be able to level Alts for our guild without any strings attached.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:15 PM by Freedomcall
Hmmm
I'm not sure how the armor vulnerability change with HP modifier increase will affect the game overall.
But it actually is a dmg nerf to many melee classes.
For example, my svg has done actually 110% dmg to many classes cuz i have been switching slash/thrust depends on the class i'm hitting,
and after the change i will get only 105% and it's 5% dmg loss(roughly calculated).
I know many SBs have been crying for armor vulnerability change, but stealth war was just part of the game.
Changing this overall would be another issue, and I'm not sure this would be right way to go.

But anyway I see a good QoL changes with lots of caring for the server.
I want to say thank you to all of you GMs.

Edit : what does "malus" mean? Maybe I'm missing something from this sentence. =P

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:18 PM by t4coops
your qoal should be to make the qame more successful/flourish, not just make it.. different

incase you didn't know
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:18 PM by canzian
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:04 PM
canzian wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:02 PM
If I destroy 5 epic vest and I take 5 heal proc 230hp, I can put it on all armor or only in other vest?
Sorry for my english

All armor pieces and even weapons as these procs will become either offensive, reactive or both depending on what items they are applied to.

Then Can i have all armor pieces with 230 heal proc?
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:20 PM by keen
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:04 PM
canzian wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:02 PM
If I destroy 5 epic vest and I take 5 heal proc 230hp, I can put it on all armor or only in other vest?
Sorry for my english

All armor pieces and even weapons as these procs will become either offensive, reactive or both depending on what items they are applied to.
Wtf? hf killing Somone in melee then. Also off tanks with 2*230 heal proc? Please consider the impact on rvr before putting this live.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:21 PM by Freedomcall
But epic vest has 180 hp proc, not 230.
230 is heal charge from legion.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:22 PM by Keelia
With these procs will it be scaled to level? Like I take lvl 20 life tap proc then use it for a lower level characters player made armor like for a thid toon?
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:26 PM by canzian
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:21 PM
But epic vest has 180 hp proc, not 230.
230 is heal charge from legion.

True, but I think is a bit overpower have all armor with this proc
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:36 PM by gruenesschaf
Keelia wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:22 PM
With these procs will it be scaled to level? Like I take lvl 20 life tap proc then use it for a lower level characters player made armor like for a thid toon?

The spell or source item level will be used, if you take the proc from a level 25 rog, the level requirements will be the same as for this level 25 rog.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:38 PM by gruenesschaf
keen wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:20 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:04 PM
canzian wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:02 PM
If I destroy 5 epic vest and I take 5 heal proc 230hp, I can put it on all armor or only in other vest?
Sorry for my english

All armor pieces and even weapons as these procs will become either offensive, reactive or both depending on what items they are applied to.
Wtf? hf killing Somone in melee then. Also off tanks with 2*230 heal proc? Please consider the impact on rvr before putting this live.

In practice unlikely to be an issue, it will however have some impact especially in smaller group sizes, which is kind of the point.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:39 PM by Forlornhope
Please don't allow the 230 heal proc from the SI chests to be put onto crafted armor.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:45 PM by Amnesiaa
Norad wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:26 AM
Good to see some much needed changes to get this server away from the caster meta that it has been plagued with since day 1. Need more balance in rvr groups.

yah i forget the new super heal procs on every armor part is a big nerf to casters.. o wait lul.

2) NPCs will receive a damage increase via an increase to their damage table, this will not affect certain pets that had manual adjustments (e.g. theurgist earth pets, hunter pet), this increase will not affect the defense penetration. As the damage table represents a multiplicator this will also increase the absolute damage change caused by strength buffs / debuffs. The expected damage of this damage table increase will be between 10 and 30%, depending on the mob.

3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.

those are some really big big tank upgrade right, think u misread the patch notes
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:46 PM by Keelia
I’m all for the big heal proc on all armor, you’ll see a rise in hoh/ds runs to be able to pay for them. Maybe even a increase of raids as well seeing as I still need sidi/TG on my albs and mid.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:50 PM by gruenesschaf
Amnesiaa wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:45 PM
Norad wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:26 AM
Good to see some much needed changes to get this server away from the caster meta that it has been plagued with since day 1. Need more balance in rvr groups.

yah i forget the new super heal procs on every armor part is a big nerf to casters.. o wait lul.

Damage done to caster is not an issue for the most part, the issue is primarily the initial burst due to resist debuff nuking which a higher hp pool should counter. The intention of this change is not to entirely turn it on its head, hence no reduction to 30 20 10% debuffs, but instead an increase of the hp pool which is also expected to make a couple other spikey match ups better, including the aog or quad spikes.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:55 PM by BashPi
lifeleech proc on every armor and weapon sounds really really bad please dont do that!
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:08 PM by Keelia
Will we be able to put heal procs on weapons? Like the 180 heal proc on a weapon?
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:11 PM by Cadebrennus
BashPi wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:55 PM
lifeleech proc on every armor and weapon sounds really really bad please dont do that!

I already have full Lifetap suits for my Merc, Ranger, and BM. This change will make all of that time farming for suits completely useless.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:18 PM by Lipsi
1) Bounty points will be shared across all your characters per realm per account, like money
-> Sounds good and fair since BP are a currency.
2)Professions will be shared across all your characters per realm per account,
-> Sounds good, does it extend to the secondary skills especially salvage too ?

3)The social xp bonus will be reworked
- the given % bonus will be adjusted to be the inverse of their natural desirability for groups as seen so far
-> i like it, might increase diversity for some less played classes. Is it going to be based on statistics of played classes, or on subjective feeling about which are desirable?

4) Increased customizability for procs
Existing procs will become replaceable, this will be for player crafted items only at first and may or may not be opened up for all items later on. At the same time we will also introduce some npc that will take the most expensive craftable proc together with any item that has a proc on it (not a charge) and in return you will receive the proc that this item had on it to apply it to any of your weapons or armor

-> I like this, since there are many open suggestions for more procs and customization.
-> It will be certainly controversial especially based on the many topics opened for nerfing some weapons/procs per realm, most of that whine however seems to concern exclusively stealther classes.
-> Some exclusions might be needed, i am thinking of TG/Galla/Sidi vests that have a heal proc of 180 that would become the norm with this modification, resulting in killing the Epic Mending proc that has value 100 only
-> Procs that have a 18% chance to trigger will after recovery/modification keep their 18% proc chance or it will be set to 15% as other procs ?

5) Task XP Rework
- collection task turn in limitations will be removed
- drop rate for collection task items will be adjusted
- 2 new location dependent kill tasks will be added: kill mobs in classic overworld zones, kill mobs in si overworld zones
- completing a task will result in receiving a new item that can be traded as well as turned in at your trainer, turning in these items represents another task where the turn in requirements per task level follow the fibonacci sequence (1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34....), that means everyone will without any effort at all complete the first couple levels while making higher levels of this task pretty much unattainable giving a reason to either save or sell remaining tokens or to use them with other characters. Completing this new turn in task will itself not provide a task completion token.
-> Are we talking about the 10 max turn in per level and 10 max per item type ? Sounds a bit all complicated, the collection items will now turn into tokens that are in turn exchanged for xp, with a degressive return based on number of turn in? Level of the mobs that drop collection task item will not be relevant anymore ? (ie token received from drops from lvl 15 mobs will be just a token, useable regardless of character level ?
At first i even thought that with this change it would almost be able to reveive free LVL 50 with enough turn ins.

6) Body Type XP Rework
Initially the plan / hope was to have a dynamic system that encourages people to seek out new spots and at the beginning it certainly worked well, however, due to how the dynamic bonus is determined there isn't really ever a change. To get back to the original intention we're changing it to be determined daily (will survive restarts as it will depend on the date), one body type will receive 25% bonus another 50%, another 75% and finally another 100%.
->That's nice, will certainly promote a dynamic system, that applies to xp groups. Would be good to see also some dynamics in farm groups, may be based on the date too (i remember a certain MMORPG with seasons where mammals would migrate during seasons, and even day/night and predators would follow them, etc)

7) Dense spawn areas will see some of their mobs receive spells that should not affect normal group play much, this only applies to classic and si zones
Example spells: a low damage instant cast snare nuke with a 10 second cool down
This will only affect the beach in albion and the red caps in moderna in midgard for now, more spots may or may not be changed or this might be rolled back depending on what happens in game.
-> Why not, as long as this doesn't appear in Frontiers. Wouldn't want to loose speed and get snared while roaming RVR. But what is the purpose of it ? A richer gameplay with mobs having new abilities/spells, or an added difficulty to counter some farm tactics ?
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:21 PM by florin
How much HP does necro pet get?
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:27 PM by Freedomcall
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.

Anyone know what "malus" means?
I think i don't fully understand that sentence.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:29 PM by Campjr
Armor table vulnerability is an obvious SB buff.

any thoughts about fixing the pierce line? Current armor tables and lack of real utility and zero upside in the weaponline.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:29 PM by Forlornhope
Lipsi wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:18 PM
-> Some exclusions might be needed, i am thinking of TG/Galla/Sidi vests that have a heal proc of 180 that would become the norm with this modification, resulting in killing the Epic Mending proc that has value 100 only


Very valid concern, yet another reason the sidi/galla/tg vest should NOT be included in this.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:30 PM by gruenesschaf
Lipsi wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:18 PM
-> Procs that have a 18% chance to trigger will after recovery/modification keep their 18% proc chance or it will be set to 15% as other procs ?


The proc will be taken as is, including the chance.


Lipsi wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:18 PM
5) Task XP Rework
-> Are we talking about the 10 max turn in per level and 10 max per item type ? Sounds a bit all complicated, the collection items will now turn into tokens that are in turn exchanged for xp, with a degressive return based on number of turn in? Level of the mobs that drop collection task item will not be relevant anymore ? (ie token received from drops from lvl 15 mobs will be just a token, useable regardless of character level ?
At first i even thought that with this change it would almost be able to reveive free LVL 50 with enough turn ins.
The 10 per item 10 max per level limitation will be removed. The degressive return policy (via a new daily resetting task with increasing turn in requirements per task level) only applies to the new task completion reward item.


Lipsi wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:18 PM
7) Dense spawn areas will see some of their mobs receive spells that should not affect normal group play much, this only applies to classic and si zones
Example spells: a low damage instant cast snare nuke with a 10 second cool down
This will only affect the beach in albion and the red caps in moderna in midgard for now, more spots may or may not be changed or this might be rolled back depending on what happens in game.
-> Why not, as long as this doesn't appear in Frontiers. Wouldn't want to loose speed and get snared while roaming RVR. But what is the purpose of it ? A richer gameplay with mobs having new abilities/spells, or an added difficulty to counter some farm tactics ?
The latter
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:34 PM by florin
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:27 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.

Anyone know what "malus" means?
I think i don't fully understand that sentence.

Opposite of bonus -> penalty

Mal meaning bad
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:45 PM by Freedomcall
florin wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:34 PM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 1:27 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.

Anyone know what "malus" means?
I think i don't fully understand that sentence.

Opposite of bonus -> penalty

Mal meaning bad

thx i knew mal- means bad but couldn't figure out that from malus. =P
Even failed to find the word malus from dictionary.

Anyway that must mean my melee dmg will be 90%-105% instead of 90%-110% then.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 2:39 PM by Runental
Nice... 6x Epic heal proc/LL Proc on SM.. let them stealther come!
Thu 7 Nov 2019 2:51 PM by Sepplord
Overall looks like good changes, i don't really have a feeling how levelling will turn out but you surely put a lot of thinking into the combination of changes and i am happy to see that there are changes being made.

I am skeptical regarding the procc-change though. It seems as if it will increase the cost-ceiling for temps immensely. Further alienating new players and playstyle where individual characterstrength is very important. Aka soloing/smallmanning will get more expensive and afaik that playstyle is already burdened with highest cost of entry and highest cost of operation.
Yes i know, this is not "retemping" but it is close. "done" chars will need a lot of ressources to get them "done" again. This also doesn't revive SI-raids, so newer players could get encounters, it will simply increase DS/HOH frequencies.

This popped up while typing:
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:38 PM
keen wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:20 PM
Wtf? hf killing Somone in melee then. Also off tanks with 2*230 heal proc? Please consider the impact on rvr before putting this live.

In practice unlikely to be an issue, it will however have some impact especially in smaller group sizes, which is kind of the point.

Could you elaborate what the point/goal is, regarding the impact on smallmans/soloers? As a smallman-player this doesn't sound much appealing to me, but maybe i am missing something. It is hard to comment without understanding the goal/point
Thu 7 Nov 2019 2:52 PM by Sepplord
Runental wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 2:39 PM
Nice... 6x Epic heal proc/LL Proc on SM.. let them stealther come!

don't most hits go into pet and don't trigger proccs anyways?
Thu 7 Nov 2019 2:55 PM by Loki
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:04 PM
canzian wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:02 PM
If I destroy 5 epic vest and I take 5 heal proc 230hp, I can put it on all armor or only in other vest?
Sorry for my english

All armor pieces and even weapons as these procs will become either offensive, reactive or both depending on what items they are applied to.

TG/Sidi/Galla chest should be an exception.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 3:15 PM by Runental
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 2:52 PM
Runental wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 2:39 PM
Nice... 6x Epic heal proc/LL Proc on SM.. let them stealther come!

don't most hits go into pet and don't trigger proccs anyways?

Sure, but those hits who don't go into intercept, - ill take it ^^ And the best 70% intercept helps nothing vs that Alb gank squads, so more survivability is always welcome ☺️
Thu 7 Nov 2019 3:19 PM by Freedomcall
Btw is there any plan to make procs more balanced by realm if procs become customizable?
Cuz Albs has the best procs afaik.
25% haste, 200/50% abla, 130 heal(highest one other than epic vest).
These are the ones mids/hibs don't have access afaik.

25% haste proc with 200/50% abla combined with 130 heal proc armsman vs 20% haste proc with 150/50% abla+100 heal proc hero/warrior will become a thing.
(assuming 180 heal from epic chest being an exception ^^)
Thu 7 Nov 2019 3:22 PM by Ardri
Good changes.

Keep in mind, the con increase is also a nerf to assassins (rely on PA/CD burst damage), but an even bigger nerf to archers. Have any of you devs tried to solo on a hunter/scout/ranger? Now targets have that much more HP and will be even harder to kill, pretty much impossible if it's a tank/shield user.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 3:51 PM by gruenesschaf
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 2:51 PM
Could you elaborate what the point/goal is, regarding the impact on smallmans/soloers? As a smallman-player this doesn't sound much appealing to me, but maybe i am missing something. It is hard to comment without understanding the goal/point

The goal of it is to allow everyone to use whatever proc they think will help them the most in their preferred play style, in the end it will most likely come down to abla or lt when disease can be assumed otherwise heal proc while some will opt for debuff or haste procs.

The issue with new players is also not as severe as you are "just" in a somewhat sub optimal place until you can afford it, compared to the current situation where you are either done (have the item) or not done (don't have the item). In general this is a more desirable state and hence there are some discussions to add items that can be upgraded so that you would have a sub optimal template until you upgraded it twice but have say 65/75 while already being able to purchase these kind of items while leveling, however, this would happen together with a general "item overhaul" where more named items with reasonable stats are introduced to make it feasible to build templates without relying entirely on rogs, don't expect any toys there though, strictly stat items.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 3:54 PM by Razur Ur
Plz give us rr5 ability :-) for more personality character.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 4:18 PM by Svekt
I didn't even finish reading, so many changes I give up trying to follow how this server works anymore.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 4:19 PM by Lipsi
First thing, i am very enthousiastic about the personalization options given to the players with the procs change.

Just some thoughts about it, because of course these mending procs are going to be a thing we'll have to learn to play with. And there is a potential for balance change and/or abuses, so i'd go double careful with extensive testing before going live.

Having been running a savage with 2x95 LT 60% that leeches for 57 HP each time it procs (at 15%) and is not resisted (assuming around 10% got resisted), it already covers 2 self buff running all time (=10% life every 15s).

Now, with those TG/Galla procs turned into dual wield weapons, that triggers with 18% chance, and heal for 225 HP (180*1.25), we can foresee those dual wielders healing 50% of their health bar every 15 seconds. Please run some extensive tests for this on dummies before going live, as it could become an issue.

Between a 57 leech that can be resisted or a 225 heal non resistable, it will be a no brainer, even when disease will come into play (heal will still be 112)

On live, pre TOA, the highest available mending volatile was 80 (heals for 100 = 80*1.25) and reactive was 100 (heals for 125)., except chest pieces intended to be unique

Other procs that aren't really intended to be placed just on any equipment piece :
- in Hib : DD 71 radius 350 PBAoE damage. Perfectly legit on certain weapons as now, but that on reactive, on shield blocking ? Our heroes will turn into eldritch ))
- in Mid : HOT 150, 20 seconds. Never understood that proc, when others HOT procs have values which order of magnitude is 10-20... Need testing to see any potential issue
- in Alb : haven't been there to see by myself, but from answer above, 25% haste and 200 ablative vs 20%/150 of other realms seems an issue too now if it can generalize to each crafted armor piece/weapon.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 4:33 PM by Tamy
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
4) Increased customizability for procs
Existing procs will become replaceable, this will be for player crafted items only at first and may or may not be opened up for all items later on. At the same time we will also introduce some npc that will take the most expensive craftable proc together with any item that has a proc on it (not a charge) and in return you will receive the proc that this item had on it to apply it to any of your weapons or armor, please note that until (if ever) we make procs on non crafted items replaceable you will only be able to apply this proc to crafted armor / weapons.
This proc that you receive will become an offensive proc when applied to weapons, a reactive proc when applied to armor and proc for both cases when applied to a shield. Please note that both the most expensive craftable proc as well as the item you give to this npc will be destroyed.
Example:
You give the craftable epic heal proc as well as some rog weapon with a 95 delve lifedrain proc to the npc, these items are now destroyed but in return you receive a proc item with the 95 delve lifedrain proc that you can freely apply to one of your weapons or armor pieces. The same would also work for the epic dungeon chests to receive the higher heal proc.


I'm confused regarding the "most expensive craftable proc" as part of the turn in. Does this basically mean you need a crafted epic heal for every turn in at the npc (together with the rog)? If I remember correctly it's the most expensive proc. Thank you for a quick clarification.

Also please reconsider the ability to turn in the epic dungeon procs. This could get out of hand and be too overpowered in certain situations.

Thank you for trying to develop the server furthermore, altough I'm not sure how certain changes will affect certain playstyles (e.g. HP-increase) but I'm open to give it a go.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 4:35 PM by Sepplord
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 3:51 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 2:51 PM
Could you elaborate what the point/goal is, regarding the impact on smallmans/soloers? As a smallman-player this doesn't sound much appealing to me, but maybe i am missing something. It is hard to comment without understanding the goal/point

The goal of it is to allow everyone to use whatever proc they think will help them the most in their preferred play style, in the end it will most likely come down to abla or lt when disease can be assumed otherwise heal proc while some will opt for debuff or haste procs.

The issue with new players is also not as severe as you are "just" in a somewhat sub optimal place until you can afford it, compared to the current situation where you are either done (have the item) or not done (don't have the item). In general this is a more desirable state and hence there are some discussions to add items that can be upgraded so that you would have a sub optimal template until you upgraded it twice but have say 65/75 while already being able to purchase these kind of items while leveling, however, this would happen together with a general "item overhaul" where more named items with reasonable stats are introduced to make it feasible to build templates without relying entirely on rogs, don't expect any toys there though, strictly stat items.

Ok i can see what you mean regarding newer player being more able to build a "halfway-there" template without throwing away too much ressources (for example using crafted weapons instead of having to build weaponless and applying proccs later when you get them). From the perspective of new assassins/thanes/minstrels or other classes that heavily struggle while templating because they rely on weaponless temps (currently) this change sounds great. But on the other hand, the soon to be "halfway template" for many classes is almost the done-template now. Besides currently "needed" weaponless templates the benefit is pretty small. You can already go with a crafted robe instead of the SI-Vest, and just replace it with the SI-vest when you get it. The benefits are there though, no doubt. The cost-floor for entering has been slightly decrease

The flipside though is that the cost-ceiling has been increased. And it has increased immensely. Instead of SI-Vest + 5crafted proccs, aka something around 25k feathers+gold. The new set consists of SI-vest + 5*(SI-vest+crafted procc) which is around 125kfeathers.
I really don't see myself spending 100k feathers on each of my "done" characters to get them up to par again.
And running around with a "halfway"-Template is really not am appealing option for me and my playstyles. And running with subpar equipment will lead to frustration for me.

I appreciate your goal to give everyone more options, but with the currently expected costs it feels like a letdown at the moment and sounds as if it mostly benefits the superrich and hardcore-players that can play 50hours a week anyways. They can simply run DS for a day and be done again.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 4:37 PM by Sepplord
Lipsi wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 4:19 PM
First thing, i am very enthousiastic about the personalization options given to the players with the procs change.

Just some thoughts about it, because of course these mending procs are going to be a thing we'll have to learn to play with. And there is a potential for balance change and/or abuses, so i'd go double careful with extensive testing before going live.

Having been running a savage with 2x95 LT 60% that leeches for 57 HP each time it procs (at 15%) and is not resisted (assuming around 10% got resisted), it already covers 2 self buff running all time (=10% life every 15s).

Now, with those TG/Galla procs turned into dual wield weapons, that triggers with 18% chance, and heal for 225 HP (180*1.25), we can foresee those dual wielders healing 50% of their health bar every 15 seconds. Please run some extensive tests for this on dummies before going live, as it could become an issue.

Between a 57 leech that can be resisted or a 225 heal non resistable, it will be a no brainer, even when disease will come into play (heal will still be 112)

On live, pre TOA, the highest available mending volatile was 80 (heals for 100 = 80*1.25) and reactive was 100 (heals for 125)., except chest pieces intended to be unique

Other procs that aren't really intended to be placed just on any equipment piece :
- in Hib : DD 71 radius 350 PBAoE damage. Perfectly legit on certain weapons as now, but that on reactive, on shield blocking ? Our heroes will turn into eldritch ))
- in Mid : HOT 150, 20 seconds. Never understood that proc, when others HOT procs have values which order of magnitude is 10-20... Need testing to see any potential issue
- in Alb : haven't been there to see by myself, but from answer above, 25% haste and 200 ablative vs 20%/150 of other realms seems an issue too now if it can generalize to each crafted armor piece/weapon.

Good post, just one remark regarding the midgrad HOT: It's not a Heal over Time (HoT) it's a regen-buff. You will regenerate more HP when your normal regenration ticks. Aka desease cuts it by 100% instead of 50% and in combat regeneration only happens every 14? seconds? (not sure on the tick-timer, but the procc is not superior to the SI-Healprocc)
Thu 7 Nov 2019 4:55 PM by Nexi
All changes sounds good to me, except the proc changes. This means hours and hours of farming if you want to get an good standing vs. Others
Thu 7 Nov 2019 5:13 PM by Roto23
since ttk will increase, can melee get a 10% boost to their endurance pool? No boost to power pool because endurance is used for both sprinting and damage while power is only used for damage.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 5:25 PM by gotwqqd
Start buying and stocking up on turn in items
Particularly after level 40
No more xping needed buy 20 items
Thu 7 Nov 2019 5:25 PM by kalafonte
i personally would love to see bug fixes and maybe some events or something before anything like this. what good does any of this do on a server with a dwindling population but push more people away? its gonna be awesome putting a TG heal proc on my mainhand, but what good does that do when im running around for 30+ mins looking for something to fight? the stealther game on NA time anymore is horrible and getting worse. Would love to see time being spent fixing bugs rather then changing gameplay and creating more problems. the devs claim its the population that dictates major changes on this server, but i do not recall any votes on this. my vote is for maybe some RvR events, or maybe our "Special prize" from the last event..

as of right now on the bug tracker there are 3 issues under the in progress tab that have been active for 3+ months. With a backlog of 282, why is anything new even up for discussion. it seems there is already plenty that needs attention.. i understand that most of the stuff on there is minor, but damn lol.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 5:26 PM by keen
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:38 PM
keen wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:20 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:04 PM
All armor pieces and even weapons as these procs will become either offensive, reactive or both depending on what items they are applied to.
Wtf? hf killing Somone in melee then. Also off tanks with 2*230 heal proc? Please consider the impact on rvr before putting this live.

In practice unlikely to be an issue, it will however have some impact especially in smaller group sizes, which is kind of the point.
Well I would say it will impact 8v8 for sure as well. Maybe in zerg fights it's neglectable. It also sets a new defacto standard for ppl in 8v8, small men and 1v1 to invest 8-10*20k feathers for being on pair with ppl again.
I don't see the reason why this is nessecary to change. Rng decides too much in daoc already. With this change the proc rng gamble will be decisive as well.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 5:27 PM by Ardri
Lipsi wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 4:19 PM
First thing, i am very enthousiastic about the personalization options given to the players with the procs change.

Just some thoughts about it, because of course these mending procs are going to be a thing we'll have to learn to play with. And there is a potential for balance change and/or abuses, so i'd go double careful with extensive testing before going live.

Having been running a savage with 2x95 LT 60% that leeches for 57 HP each time it procs (at 15%) and is not resisted (assuming around 10% got resisted), it already covers 2 self buff running all time (=10% life every 15s).

Now, with those TG/Galla procs turned into dual wield weapons, that triggers with 18% chance, and heal for 225 HP (180*1.25), we can foresee those dual wielders healing 50% of their health bar every 15 seconds. Please run some extensive tests for this on dummies before going live, as it could become an issue.

Between a 57 leech that can be resisted or a 225 heal non resistable, it will be a no brainer, even when disease will come into play (heal will still be 112)

On live, pre TOA, the highest available mending volatile was 80 (heals for 100 = 80*1.25) and reactive was 100 (heals for 125)., except chest pieces intended to be unique

Other procs that aren't really intended to be placed just on any equipment piece :
- in Hib : DD 71 radius 350 PBAoE damage. Perfectly legit on certain weapons as now, but that on reactive, on shield blocking ? Our heroes will turn into eldritch ))
- in Mid : HOT 150, 20 seconds. Never understood that proc, when others HOT procs have values which order of magnitude is 10-20... Need testing to see any potential issue
- in Alb : haven't been there to see by myself, but from answer above, 25% haste and 200 ablative vs 20%/150 of other realms seems an issue too now if it can generalize to each crafted armor piece/weapon.

Best summary of concerns here. The 180 heal for 225 value would be ridiculous on weapons, especially dual wielding classes. Maybe only allow armor procs/reactives to stay on armors. And vice versa for weapons.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 5:45 PM by Boltman
I think the changes look great overall, any possibility of making snow/soil/branches tradable on your account?
Thu 7 Nov 2019 5:59 PM by Runental
Good changes, but before you adding new stuff please fix the current issues like Dragonloottables..
https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/58b838ae-5598-4949-9f4a-69965bcefe81
It's more and more a feather economy only here, and there is no chance get a regular drop if you don't buy it by feathers.
The proc thing will lead to a much more feather economy as it already is, and I know alot of people including me, who won't run 3475578 DS & HoH runs but will lead a Dragon/TG raid once or twice IF there would be a working loottable.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 6:10 PM by carlwinslow
How about making feathers easier to get? You guys are nerfing redcap farm so now I will have no solid way to farm the 6 plat needed for any feather item. Nobody wants to do the main raids, maybe make some chill instances that aren't a complete pain to complete? Feather sink is bad right now
Thu 7 Nov 2019 6:18 PM by vxr
All of this looks good to me, but the proc changes are concerning.
Why is this needed?
Thu 7 Nov 2019 6:22 PM by chewchew
mhmm...the proc changes are really bad imho.
i think you are setting the new standard for templating too high and too hard to reach while there is absolutly 0 need to raise it at all. Its the legion items all over again.
and the weak point of the server, the huge discrepancy between lowrr and highrr players, you are not even adressing (by eg introduction of rr5 abilities) in these "rvr balance" changes....
also i dont really see the "caster meta" as such a big problem. i think it comes more from the problem that (at least in 8v8) some setups are really strong because of some of the custom changes of this server.
what ever happened to the idea of turning legion charges into cast/melee absorb charges? might also be a bit controversial, but might be a more subtle approach and it wont set the templating standard higher.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 7:12 PM by Keltar
Some cool ideas, but some others are worrisome.

Anything that shares achievements from one toon to another on the same account is good as far as I'm concerned. So crafting/BP across all toons of the same realm? Great!

Social XP bonus being removed? It's already a laughable joke. The best group setup right now could have 40% (8x 5%) bonus, and that's not a frequent sight. With the change, you could see 40% more often but you're likely to see 30% on average. 20-40% is what seems to be what will be out there. But how good is that bonus? Let's break down a kill based on what is posted in the Phoenix WIKI QOL section.

77.5 Million base XP
15.5 Million XP Camp Bonus (20% of the base XP)
23.3 Million XP Frontier Bonus (30% of the base XP)
66 Million XP Realm Task Bonus (85% of the base XP... how often does it get this high?!)
30.3 Million XP RVR Score Bonus (39% of the base XP)

Total of 212.6 Million XP. Let's assume the Frontier bonus is your Social bonus. That 30% bonus is slightly higher than 10% (10.9%) of the total XP earned. Why? Because bonuses are all based on the base XP and not on the cumulative XP when that bonus is triggered. Add a social bonus of 150% to that? It represents 35.4% of the total earned bonus. So your social bonus change could represent 76% (8x 9% melee aka no healers) of a bonus but that would only be an actual 18.3% bonus to the total of your XP gain. And I'm not removing the current social bonus of 20-25% you normally get in a group, nor am I considering the fact that the group would die every other pull.

So all of those bonuses are cute, but they don't really mean as much as we think until we have them do compounded effect where we'd actually get 2x more XP than the current setup. Then you can nerf alllll the non group related farming methods as you wish. And you can consider leveling up as truly fixed.

PS: The only compounded bonuses right now? Claw potion XP buff (Wisdom?) and guild buff.

The rest of the changes? I'm ambivalent. Anything that focuses on making us do more PVE is counter productive to me. The options for procs is interesting, but not as vital as having RvR based events which could attract players back. We direly need more players, specially during NA timezone. More TTK is interesting, and is worth testing for sure. Not like we can't revert the change, and not like it requires any specific changes to anyone's templates either.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 7:34 PM by Roto23
I'm not excited about farming 10x20K feathers so I can proc myself into status quo.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 7:52 PM by Prometheus
Overall I'm pretty happy with the changes, would like to see how this works out before I say anything negative.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 8:07 PM by carlwinslow
Roto23 wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 7:34 PM
I'm not excited about farming 10x20K feathers so I can proc myself into status quo.

Yeah the feather situation is miserable, I haven't even felt like playing lately especially after they made it so we had to pay to repair instead of being able to do the craft repair like we should be able to. I don't understand this forced pve, it sucks. I am constantly broke in game, now I can't even farm redcaps because they want to nerf solo players farm.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 8:19 PM by Mavella
Devs about to Thelma and Louise this sum bitch right off a cliff.

RIP.

Edit: How about we make the proc change slightly less convoluted. Don't give access to full epic chest heals. Instead make procs over-writable but add the rarer and more desirable procs to the bits and pieces merch for a flat fee. OR make them craftable.

Here's a list I've got in mind.

Weapon procs
Str/con debuff
Dex/qui debuff
95dmg lifetap proc
Damage add proc
Dot proc that isn't body/matter dmg so everyone can run 2 dot + lifebane if sin.

Armor armor procs
95dmg lifetap
Dmg add proc if isn't available to all 3 already.
Maybe other niche ones I'm not aware of.

It's also my understanding alb has access to 200dmg ablatives and 25(?!)% haste. If one realm is going to have access all realms will need or this will be totally broken.

If you make things like full epic heal proc or 200dmg ablatives available it will become mandatory. No one wants to spend 20k feathers x8+ to suit up effectively.

One of the charms of daoc was you can temp relatively easily and cheaply and just pvp, especially after SI release. This change will just flush that down the toilet. The amount of raiding or farming necessary to get the feathers is like farming for ToA crap. No thanks.
Thu 7 Nov 2019 8:54 PM by Vindicator
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
A couple upcoming changes affecting xp, qol and some the rvr ney

2)Professions will be shared across all your characters per realm per account, for existing characters the highest value per profession will be used. (If one of your current chars has 1200 alchemy and the other 1100 you would end up with 1200).
[/quote]

I think I read this wrong the first time but it put the idea out there. Once you've leveled a crafter to lgm or artisan on one realm maybe you have it already on all 3? I have 3 lgm's and really don't want to do another on another realm as it's just a waste of my limited time. Was bad enough the first time around!

I think the proc changes will have to be heavily tested before it's introduced. Much like the affect of damage tables and HP.

Overall though great to see them still making changes which our in affect a stimulus and at least trying to be positive. 👍
Thu 7 Nov 2019 10:38 PM by IlNando
R.I.P cave sham...

Should not be better to split that huge farming spot into three/four smaller? Giving mobs a cast means make it nearly impossible to kite, even one at a time.

Now, I understand that redcaps "as his" are really unbalanced but this change is a gigantic nerf bat that transforms a MoFo spec line for pve in something useless.

About proc change I would say "dangerous", it could led to severe balance issues. Be careful.

About everything else.. Thumbs up.

My two cents
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:02 PM by VypirX504
7) Dense spawn areas will see some of their mobs receive spells that should not affect normal group play much, this only applies to classic and si zones
Example spells: a low damage instant cast snare nuke with a 10 second cool down
This will only affect the beach in albion and the red caps in moderna in midgard for now, more spots may or may not be changed or this might be rolled back depending on what happens in game.

Lord, Gwhanz got Mod nerfed XD XD XD
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:16 PM by Keltar
IlNando wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 10:38 PM
R.I.P cave sham...

Should not be better to split that huge farming spot into three/four smaller? Giving mobs a cast means make it nearly impossible to kite, even one at a time.

Now, I understand that redcaps "as his" are really unbalanced but this change is a gigantic nerf bat that transforms a MoFo spec line for pve in something useless.

About proc change I would say "dangerous", it could led to severe balance issues. Be careful.

About everything else.. Thumbs up.

My two cents

Casters who solo to level up, nuking and CCing to run and kite... Archers doing the same, they're going to be affected by that heavily as well.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 12:02 AM by Zelek
The proc change is probably the most influential change in the list. This is going to basically ruin the game. Feather camps and raids will be a requirement. Everyone will be running full sidi heal procs, 200 dmg ablatives, and LT proc weapons. The cost going into that to reach that point is going to be really high. You're also going to affect feather farming areas to the point where they will be over-camped. There's going to be some upset players for sure.

I think you should allow removing procs on weapons and letting you swap to a different proc, but simply using procs that are on special raid tier items and moving them to craft-able items is a mistake.

How about consider buffing the other damage procs to bring them in line with the others? Right now it's pretty clear what procs are the best.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 12:03 AM by Mavella
Keltar wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:16 PM
Casters who solo to level up, nuking and CCing to run and kite... Archers doing the same, they're going to be affected by that heavily as well.

They said specific dense camps. In my mind thats a only a handful of locations aka redcaps and wights in frontier. For mid. Not exactly places solos are going to level up.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 12:10 AM by Riac
Zelek wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 12:02 AM
The proc change is probably the most influential change in the list. This is going to basically ruin the game. Feather camps and raids will be a requirement. Everyone will be running full sidi heal procs, 200 dmg ablatives, and LT proc weapons. The cost going into that to reach that point is going to be really high. You're also going to affect feather farming areas to the point where they will be over-camped. There's going to be some upset players for sure.

I think you should allow removing procs on weapons and letting you swap to a different proc, but simply using procs that are on special raid tier items and moving them to craft-able items is a mistake.

How about consider buffing the other damage procs to bring them in line with the others? Right now it's pretty clear what procs are the best.

imagine the barrier to entry if you wanted to make a new stealther. it already sucks being low rr vs the high rr sins....... now its gonna suck, AND you need double heal LT procs on ALL the weapons, and all top notch procs on armor. its gonna be EXPENSIVE, or youll just get your ass beat.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 12:30 AM by JaggedOne
Zelek wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 12:02 AM
The proc change is probably the most influential change in the list. This is going to basically ruin the game. Feather camps and raids will be a requirement. Everyone will be running full sidi heal procs, 200 dmg ablatives, and LT proc weapons. The cost going into that to reach that point is going to be really high. You're also going to affect feather farming areas to the point where they will be over-camped. There's going to be some upset players for sure.


This on top of nerfing a couple of the most popular plat-farming areas in the game, ON TOP of the recent over-the-top and completely unnecessary changes to repair costs ON TOP of the slap in the face to player-crafters by not even allowing them to repair the OWN items.....

One other thought: the main reason I left live years ago (and imo the beginning of the death of the game) was the advent of ToA, which made PvE a requirement for a lot of people who detested PvE.....some pretty clear parallels here....
Fri 8 Nov 2019 12:32 AM by Riac
JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 12:30 AM
Zelek wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 12:02 AM
The proc change is probably the most influential change in the list. This is going to basically ruin the game. Feather camps and raids will be a requirement. Everyone will be running full sidi heal procs, 200 dmg ablatives, and LT proc weapons. The cost going into that to reach that point is going to be really high. You're also going to affect feather farming areas to the point where they will be over-camped. There's going to be some upset players for sure.


This on top of nerfing a couple of the most popular plat-farming areas in the game, ON TOP of the recent over-the-top and completely unnecessary changes to repair costs ON TOP of the slap in the face to player-crafters by not even allowing them to repair the OWN items.....

One other thought: the main reason I left live years ago (and imo the beginning of the death of the game) was the advent of ToA, which made PvE a requirement for a lot of people who detested PvE.....some pretty clear parallels here....

anyone else finding a bit of irony in this guys forum signature?
Fri 8 Nov 2019 6:01 AM by Tyrlaan
IMO restrict the re-proc to weapons - you can then even include non-crafted weapons.

It serves the purpose to allow people to exchange the proc on their weapon (style) of choice to the one they want... str/con debuff, dex/qui debuff, LT are no longer restricted to specific epic dungeon slash weapon drops in this realm or blunt weapons in the other realm. I feel that´s the major problem being adressed by this change.

It also allows people to finally use certain non-crafted weapons which currently carry unwanted procs (like these DoTs on slow dragon weapons) by replacing them with a better proc.

There´s enough customization for armor procs already without opening the can of worms that is epic dungeon armor procs on weapons.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 6:36 AM by Valaraukar
I do not like a single change here, they will make the game more difficult and hard-core player oriented.
Again I see the usual nerf about Midgard, and this time also Albion, pve farming, but nothing about Hibernia. They will be able to farm and camp again and again using the shrooms, already the drop has been nerfed due to animists unbalancing the rog/gold farming. This is becoming an Hibernia oriented server as far as I can see, and considering the numbers involved in frontier this is not good at all. You will end shortly with no Midgard population in RvR, it's a matter of fact, not a whine, just see the frontier map in EU prime time.
Very disappointed this time, you make changes that are not required at all and don't change what should be reworked.
Also, I did not understand the changes to mobs / pets. How will it affect RvR? I would be glad if someone could explain it better, please.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 7:22 AM by inky2019
Too many changes going on ! Be nice if they were ones that players asked for.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:08 AM by Freedomcall
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 6:36 AM
I do not like a single change here, they will make the game more difficult and hard-core player oriented.
Again I see the usual nerf about Midgard, and this time also Albion, pve farming, but nothing about Hibernia. They will be able to farm and camp again and again using the shrooms, already the drop has been nerfed due to animists unbalancing the rog/gold farming. This is becoming an Hibernia oriented server as far as I can see, and considering the numbers involved in frontier this is not good at all. You will end shortly with no Midgard population in RvR, it's a matter of fact, not a whine, just see the frontier map in EU prime time.
Very disappointed this time, you make changes that are not required at all and don't change what should be reworked.
Also, I did not understand the changes to mobs / pets. How will it affect RvR? I would be glad if someone could explain it better, please.

Alb beach and Mid modern became a spot where cabalist+necro duo or solo shaman can PL like crazy with body pull and aoe dot.
If you wanted to whine, you should've refer to a place where mentalist could pull 100+ mobs at a time.
And there actually isn't any spot hibs could do those crazy pulls.
This is the real reason only alb and mid were involved.

Your misinformation is rather a more threat to mid population decrease, if that 'decrease' ever true.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:26 AM by gruenesschaf
The proc change will be delayed a bit and to see if any of the concerns about the procs themselves have merit in practice. An option would be to test this via a shortish test phase beforehand introducing free temporary weapons and free procs that can only be applied to those, these items and procs would be deleted afterwards.

The means on how to obtain these procs will be reevaluated due to the concerns regarding the increased pve requirement.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:33 AM by Sepplord
Can't stress enough how bad the procc change sounds:

Even disregarding the whole balancing problems, which surely will come with such a change, especially regarding inter-realm fairness, the costs are just so fucking high. It really feels like TOA-grind all over again.
DAoC (for me) is about RvR, and getting chars "RvR-ready" without having to go into a competitive PvE-Grind to get gear advantages.

Tyrlaan wrote: IMO restrict the re-proc to weapons - you can then even include non-crafted weapons.

It serves the purpose to allow people to exchange the proc on their weapon (style) of choice to the one they want... str/con debuff, dex/qui debuff, LT are no longer restricted to specific epic dungeon slash weapon drops in this realm or blunt weapons in the other realm. I feel that´s the major problem being adressed by this change.

It also allows people to finally use certain non-crafted weapons which currently carry unwanted procs (like these DoTs on slow dragon weapons) by replacing them with a better proc.

There´s enough customization for armor procs already without opening the can of worms that is epic dungeon armor procs on weapons.

Only making it available for weapons would decrease the problem, but imo it would still be a horrible burden of cost for classes like assassins or dual-wielders that would need to re-procc multiple sets of weapons to stay competitive. Costs are just too high with the current system.

Allowing non-crafted weapons to be re-procced would also be horrible, as it would ruin some peoples templates, forcing them to retemplate to make use of other weaponspeed that suddenly are viable despite having a bad procc. Huge NO on retemplating changes too (and i believe that is also the reason they don't open THAT can of worms too)


EDIT:
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:26 AM
The proc change will be delayed a bit and to see if any of the concerns about the procs themselves have merit in practice an option would be to test this via a shortish test phase beforehand introducing free temporary weapons and free procs that can only be applied to those, these items and procs would be deleted afterwards.

The means on how to obtain these procs will be reevaluated due to the concerns regarding the increased pve requirement.

Thanks for that announcement, the testing sounds intresting. Didn't think something like that would be possible. But especially reliefed because of the second part of your statement.

Some might disagree, but for me an inbalance between different proccs that everyone can get is far more bearable, than an imbalance because one can't afford the good stuff
Fri 8 Nov 2019 9:47 AM by Lipsi
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:26 AM
The proc change will be delayed a bit and to see if any of the concerns about the procs themselves have merit in practice an option would be to test this via a shortish test phase beforehand introducing free temporary weapons and free procs that can only be applied to those, these items and procs would be deleted afterwards.

The means on how to obtain these procs will be reevaluated due to the concerns regarding the increased pve requirement.

It will be very fun to help testing that that especially the pbae reactive on tank and savage dual 225 heal proc =)
Second part of your announcement is very positive too.

Thanks
Fri 8 Nov 2019 9:58 AM by Dunga
i like the idea with the procc change if the 180healprocc, and for alb the 200mhb and 25%speed, would not work and stay at the items or would be changed to something "normal". without the possibility to change proccs, respectively go with an other setup it will be hard.... dont forget the change of con/hp and armor vulnerability...
Fri 8 Nov 2019 10:37 AM by Valaraukar
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:08 AM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 6:36 AM
I do not like a single change here, they will make the game more difficult and hard-core player oriented.
Again I see the usual nerf about Midgard, and this time also Albion, pve farming, but nothing about Hibernia. They will be able to farm and camp again and again using the shrooms, already the drop has been nerfed due to animists unbalancing the rog/gold farming. This is becoming an Hibernia oriented server as far as I can see, and considering the numbers involved in frontier this is not good at all. You will end shortly with no Midgard population in RvR, it's a matter of fact, not a whine, just see the frontier map in EU prime time.
Very disappointed this time, you make changes that are not required at all and don't change what should be reworked.
Also, I did not understand the changes to mobs / pets. How will it affect RvR? I would be glad if someone could explain it better, please.

Alb beach and Mid modern became a spot where cabalist+necro duo or solo shaman can PL like crazy with body pull and aoe dot.
If you wanted to whine, you should've refer to a place where mentalist could pull 100+ mobs at a time.
And there actually isn't any spot hibs could do those crazy pulls.
This is the real reason only alb and mid were involved.

Your misinformation is rather a more threat to mid population decrease, if that 'decrease' ever true.

I bet that you play in Hib, right?
So you don't see any problem with shrooms? Ok, fine, keep on going this way and we'll see.
All I know, in my "misinformation" is that the salvage result of Rogs has been already nerfed due to Animist farming (Phoenix staff admitted it clearly), and that a single Animist can camp the POC entrance killing entire parties as they enter. But you don't see it unbalancing. Ok, fine. I'm misinformed and you are blind.
Anyway your response makes me sure that I hit the correct target
Fri 8 Nov 2019 10:49 AM by IlNando
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:08 AM
Alb beach and Mid modern became a spot where cabalist+necro duo or solo shaman can PL like crazy with body pull and aoe dot.
If you wanted to whine, you should've refer to a place where mentalist could pull 100+ mobs at a time.
And there actually isn't any spot hibs could do those crazy pulls.
This is the real reason only alb and mid were involved.

Agree, the dot aoe 100+ pull is unmatched but in hib you can easily farm 5+ plats / hour with a single toon with just rog equip and little rrank (I have a shiny creep animist). Except for the redcaps farming, the only way to reach a similar amount of coin/hour on mid is probably a 5man party of 50 at POC.

Other endgame aoe farming spots on mid have far less mob concentration or far lower mob level. Reducing mobs number, or splitting the huge spot would leave the cave shams the possibility to farm money with a good rate while adding cast to redcaps put a giant X (over a skull) on the whole moderna map,
Fri 8 Nov 2019 11:02 AM by Sepplord
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 10:37 AM
[...]

JFYI ROG-salvage didn't get changed, only specific named drops were changed
Fri 8 Nov 2019 11:17 AM by easytoremember
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
4) Increased customizability for procs
Existing procs will become replaceable, this will be for player crafted items only at first and may or may not be opened up for all items later on. At the same time we will also introduce some npc that will take the most expensive craftable proc together with any item that has a proc on it (not a charge) and in return you will receive the proc that this item had on it to apply it to any of your weapons or armor, please note that until (if ever) we make procs on non crafted items replaceable you will only be able to apply this proc to crafted armor / weapons.
This proc that you receive will become an offensive proc when applied to weapons, a reactive proc when applied to armor and proc for both cases when applied to a shield. Please note that both the most expensive craftable proc as well as the item you give to this npc will be destroyed.
Example:
You give the craftable epic heal proc as well as some rog weapon with a 95 delve lifedrain proc to the npc, these items are now destroyed but in return you receive a proc item with the 95 delve lifedrain proc that you can freely apply to one of your weapons or armor pieces. The same would also work for the epic dungeon chests to receive the higher heal proc.
Do procs lifted from weapons retain their adjusted rate (weapon speed) when placed into armor?
Fri 8 Nov 2019 12:27 PM by Cadebrennus
If it's only weapon procs that change then this can be balanced. If this includes armor procs then all balance is gone (especially between casuals and hardcore).
Fri 8 Nov 2019 2:17 PM by Rhox
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:33 AM
Can't stress enough how bad the procc change sounds:

Even disregarding the whole balancing problems, which surely will come with such a change, especially regarding inter-realm fairness, the costs are just so fucking high. It really feels like TOA-grind all over again.
DAoC (for me) is about RvR, and getting chars "RvR-ready" without having to go into a competitive PvE-Grind to get gear advantages.

Tyrlaan wrote: IMO restrict the re-proc to weapons - you can then even include non-crafted weapons.

It serves the purpose to allow people to exchange the proc on their weapon (style) of choice to the one they want... str/con debuff, dex/qui debuff, LT are no longer restricted to specific epic dungeon slash weapon drops in this realm or blunt weapons in the other realm. I feel that´s the major problem being adressed by this change.

It also allows people to finally use certain non-crafted weapons which currently carry unwanted procs (like these DoTs on slow dragon weapons) by replacing them with a better proc.

There´s enough customization for armor procs already without opening the can of worms that is epic dungeon armor procs on weapons.

Only making it available for weapons would decrease the problem, but imo it would still be a horrible burden of cost for classes like assassins or dual-wielders that would need to re-procc multiple sets of weapons to stay competitive. Costs are just too high with the current system.

Allowing non-crafted weapons to be re-procced would also be horrible, as it would ruin some peoples templates, forcing them to retemplate to make use of other weaponspeed that suddenly are viable despite having a bad procc. Huge NO on retemplating changes too (and i believe that is also the reason they don't open THAT can of worms too)


EDIT:
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:26 AM
The proc change will be delayed a bit and to see if any of the concerns about the procs themselves have merit in practice an option would be to test this via a shortish test phase beforehand introducing free temporary weapons and free procs that can only be applied to those, these items and procs would be deleted afterwards.

The means on how to obtain these procs will be reevaluated due to the concerns regarding the increased pve requirement.

Thanks for that announcement, the testing sounds intresting. Didn't think something like that would be possible. But especially reliefed because of the second part of your statement.

Some might disagree, but for me an inbalance between different proccs that everyone can get is far more bearable, than an imbalance because one can't afford the good stuff

This is a moot point. I agree procs would be expensive. However it I had the option of doing my template all over with the proposed system vs whats currently in place the new system would be a lot cheaper. When you factor in all 85+ utility items + all MP gear (to go weaponless) then 6 99% lifetapers ROGs then it does even come close. That being said I do think the new proc system would be a little much and would change the game a lot from its current state.

I would like to see the proc system implemented for weapons just with the current procs that exist. It would kill the resell value for the certain LT weapons but also prevent having to spend some times 10p per weapon that wont even fit your template.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 2:25 PM by Freedomcall
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 10:37 AM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:08 AM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 6:36 AM
I do not like a single change here, they will make the game more difficult and hard-core player oriented.
Again I see the usual nerf about Midgard, and this time also Albion, pve farming, but nothing about Hibernia. They will be able to farm and camp again and again using the shrooms, already the drop has been nerfed due to animists unbalancing the rog/gold farming. This is becoming an Hibernia oriented server as far as I can see, and considering the numbers involved in frontier this is not good at all. You will end shortly with no Midgard population in RvR, it's a matter of fact, not a whine, just see the frontier map in EU prime time.
Very disappointed this time, you make changes that are not required at all and don't change what should be reworked.
Also, I did not understand the changes to mobs / pets. How will it affect RvR? I would be glad if someone could explain it better, please.

Alb beach and Mid modern became a spot where cabalist+necro duo or solo shaman can PL like crazy with body pull and aoe dot.
If you wanted to whine, you should've refer to a place where mentalist could pull 100+ mobs at a time.
And there actually isn't any spot hibs could do those crazy pulls.
This is the real reason only alb and mid were involved.

Your misinformation is rather a more threat to mid population decrease, if that 'decrease' ever true.

I bet that you play in Hib, right?
So you don't see any problem with shrooms? Ok, fine, keep on going this way and we'll see.
All I know, in my "misinformation" is that the salvage result of Rogs has been already nerfed due to Animist farming (Phoenix staff admitted it clearly), and that a single Animist can camp the POC entrance killing entire parties as they enter. But you don't see it unbalancing. Ok, fine. I'm misinformed and you are blind.
Anyway your response makes me sure that I hit the correct target

No, I switch realm a lot, maybe everyday.
Anyway I have more than 5 temped chars on each realm, so I don't have any need to defend specific realm like you.
There are lots of classes that have problem/issue and i didn't deny animists have problems either.
But your "why nerf only mid and alb? This is Hibernia oriented server! Midgard population will dive!" statement apparently looked like whining,
and I just wanted to point out that those spots were nerfed due to PLing issue.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 2:26 PM by dearen75
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.

Really? Why? What seems to me is that many SBs whine on forum for str/con proc fix and after only few weeks you give them this "cookie" so they stop crying
So now, can we have a celt ns if we open a 10 pages thread whining about it ?
Really disappointed
Fri 8 Nov 2019 2:38 PM by gotwqqd
IlNando wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 10:49 AM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:08 AM
Alb beach and Mid modern became a spot where cabalist+necro duo or solo shaman can PL like crazy with body pull and aoe dot.
If you wanted to whine, you should've refer to a place where mentalist could pull 100+ mobs at a time.
And there actually isn't any spot hibs could do those crazy pulls.
This is the real reason only alb and mid were involved.

Agree, the dot aoe 100+ pull is unmatched but in hib you can easily farm 5+ plats / hour with a single toon with just rog equip and little rrank (I have a shiny creep animist). Except for the redcaps farming, the only way to reach a similar amount of coin/hour on mid is probably a 5man party of 50 at POC.

Other endgame aoe farming spots on mid have far less mob concentration or far lower mob level. Reducing mobs number, or splitting the huge spot would leave the cave shams the possibility to farm money with a good rate while adding cast to redcaps put a giant X (over a skull) on the whole moderna map,
Chill wights in frontiers
Fri 8 Nov 2019 2:53 PM by Sepplord
dearen75 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 2:26 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.

Really? Why? What seems to me is that many SBs whine on forum for str/con proc fix and after only few weeks you give them this "cookie" so they stop crying
So now, can we have a celt ns if we open a 10 pages thread whining about it ?
Really disappointed

JFYI
there are multiple threads, with a total of about 100pages or more, about the armor-imbalance between NS / SB that are months old. In there is also staff confirmation that simulations show the NS/SB matchup to be heavily imbalanced and that they are contemplating several options but haven't found one that they are comfortable with.
The topic basically died after most SBs either quit or simply dealt with it. Months later then suddenly the debuff-nerf happened, basically only effecting already disadvantaged SBs and now this change got announced.

Be dissapointed if you want, i would probably be too, when my advantage got cut from a 20% split to a 15%split. I would recommend reading up on the topic more though before staying dissapointed. MAybe it will shine some light and you will cherish the advantages you still have more instead of being grumpy.

That said, i doubt that this change is even much related to assassins only. Gruenes mentioned in the earlier threads that they could change the armor-types vulnerabilities only for assassin VS assassin. I suspect that this change, that effects every melee in the game has some reasons besides buffing SBs vs NS
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:09 PM by Strikejk
1. Does the HP increase also apply to necro pets?
2. Does the NPC damage increase also apply to necro pets?
3. What are unique class constraints? Can you provide an example for that please?
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:20 PM by Freedomcall
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 2:53 PM
That said, i doubt that this change is even much related to assassins only. Gruenes mentioned in the earlier threads that they could change the armor-types vulnerabilities only for assassin VS assassin. I suspect that this change, that effects every melee in the game has some reasons besides buffing SBs vs NS

And that is the reason I don't actually like this change.
Devs have been stating that they did these patch to change the caster-grp-only-meta, and then suddenly cut dmg bonus from 110% to 105%.
This actually results in dmg nerf to melee classes in lots of situations, especially to classes that could select dmg type(svg, zerk, LW hero/champ, reaver, etc.)
And even more harsh to archers who could always benefit from vulnerability with right arrow.
I wonder what would have been like if they changed resistance from 10% to 5% instead of changing vulnerability, which results in 95%-110% dmg instead of 90%-105%.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:25 PM by Expfighter
I haven't tested the armor bonus and hp bonus changes yet, BUT I can say that the XP item and task changes are utter GARBAGE!

You basically removed the solo aspect of leveling, might as well make it a requirement to group now, I wont level another toon with these garbage changes(30+ solo now)!

some of the changes are ok, not a fan of task and xp changes!
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:29 PM by Sepplord
Expfighter wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:25 PM
I haven't tested the armor bonus and hp bonus changes yet, BUT I can say that the XP item and task changes are utter GARBAGE!

You basically removed the solo aspect of leveling, might as well make it a requirement to group now, I wont level another toon with these garbage changes(30+ solo now)!

some of the changes are ok, not a fan of task and xp changes!

could you elaborate why?
XP-items got heavily buffed didn't they? Since you can just farm as many as you want and turn them all in?
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:37 PM by Expfighter
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:29 PM
Expfighter wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:25 PM
I haven't tested the armor bonus and hp bonus changes yet, BUT I can say that the XP item and task changes are utter GARBAGE!

You basically removed the solo aspect of leveling, might as well make it a requirement to group now, I wont level another toon with these garbage changes(30+ solo now)!

some of the changes are ok, not a fan of task and xp changes!

could you elaborate why?
XP-items got heavily buffed didn't they? Since you can just farm as many as you want and turn them all in?

sure I will give you an example: yesterday at lvl 42 I turned in a set of xp items and got 6 bubs of xp, today I turned in the same set of 10 and got around 1.15 bubs. While this makes the xp item farmers VERY VERY VERY happy, it kills the aspect of solo leveling at higher levels.

I am still scratching my head as to why they would change this after 10 months of the game being live, the system they had in place was damned near perfect for the soloer and groups alike.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:38 PM by Cadebrennus
dearen75 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 2:26 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.

Really? Why? What seems to me is that many SBs whine on forum for str/con proc fix and after only few weeks you give them this "cookie" so they stop crying
So now, can we have a celt ns if we open a 10 pages thread whining about it ?
Really disappointed

Don't forget, they opened MULTIPLE whine threads. I guess the squeaky wheel really does get the grease. Just like Live.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:42 PM by chryso
Expfighter wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:37 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:29 PM
Expfighter wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:25 PM
I haven't tested the armor bonus and hp bonus changes yet, BUT I can say that the XP item and task changes are utter GARBAGE!

You basically removed the solo aspect of leveling, might as well make it a requirement to group now, I wont level another toon with these garbage changes(30+ solo now)!

some of the changes are ok, not a fan of task and xp changes!

could you elaborate why?
XP-items got heavily buffed didn't they? Since you can just farm as many as you want and turn them all in?

sure I will give you an example: yesterday at lvl 42 I turned in a set of xp items and got 6 bubs of xp, today I turned in the same set of 10 and got around 1.15 bubs. While this makes the xp item farmers VERY VERY VERY happy, it kills the aspect of solo leveling at higher levels.

I am still scratching my head as to why they would change this after 10 months of the game being live, the system they had in place was damned near perfect for the soloer and groups alike.
10 items to get 1.15 bubs sounds terrible. It seems that at 49 doing the rvr task will get you .1 of a bubble now, is that right?
I like soloing on alts but this will kill that for me.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:44 PM by gotwqqd
chryso wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:42 PM
Expfighter wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:37 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:29 PM
could you elaborate why?
XP-items got heavily buffed didn't they? Since you can just farm as many as you want and turn them all in?

sure I will give you an example: yesterday at lvl 42 I turned in a set of xp items and got 6 bubs of xp, today I turned in the same set of 10 and got around 1.15 bubs. While this makes the xp item farmers VERY VERY VERY happy, it kills the aspect of solo leveling at higher levels.

I am still scratching my head as to why they would change this after 10 months of the game being live, the system they had in place was damned near perfect for the soloer and groups alike.
10 items to get 1.15 bubs sounds terrible. It seems that at 49 doing the rvr task will get you .1 of a bubble now, is that right?
It used to get about 4 bubs
Now should be 4*.25=1 bub
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:46 PM by Expfighter
chryso wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:42 PM
Expfighter wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:37 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:29 PM
could you elaborate why?
XP-items got heavily buffed didn't they? Since you can just farm as many as you want and turn them all in?

sure I will give you an example: yesterday at lvl 42 I turned in a set of xp items and got 6 bubs of xp, today I turned in the same set of 10 and got around 1.15 bubs. While this makes the xp item farmers VERY VERY VERY happy, it kills the aspect of solo leveling at higher levels.

I am still scratching my head as to why they would change this after 10 months of the game being live, the system they had in place was damned near perfect for the soloer and groups alike.
10 items to get 1.15 bubs sounds terrible. It seems that at 49 doing the rvr task will get you .1 of a bubble now, is that right?
I like soloing on alts but this will kill that for me.

well I don't have a toon at 49 with these changes so I cant test that, but it seems that is what they want now!

I guess players were leveling too fast, so they neutered it heavily!
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:49 PM by Expfighter
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:44 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:42 PM
Expfighter wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:37 PM
sure I will give you an example: yesterday at lvl 42 I turned in a set of xp items and got 6 bubs of xp, today I turned in the same set of 10 and got around 1.15 bubs. While this makes the xp item farmers VERY VERY VERY happy, it kills the aspect of solo leveling at higher levels.

I am still scratching my head as to why they would change this after 10 months of the game being live, the system they had in place was damned near perfect for the soloer and groups alike.
10 items to get 1.15 bubs sounds terrible. It seems that at 49 doing the rvr task will get you .1 of a bubble now, is that right?
It used to get about 4 bubs
Now should be 4*.25=1 bub

well it seems that the calculation is a decreasing one as you lvl higher! 1 bub for a set of 10 xp items is like live, and well I won't tell you exactly what my thoughts on that are!
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:54 PM by Sepplord
Please note that collection task item turn in is tied to the same reward system but instead of using your current level these turn ins will always use the minimum level of the item.

I guess i misinterpreted this sentence then. I was assuming that it meant that the item-turnins would use the same reward AS NOW (aka before they implemented change) and the only thing being changed is the level of all items being fixed at their minimum.
I thought that it would greatly increase the value and easyness of finding a decent XP item spot and just grind it and turn in a bunch of items.

I see now that they meant to say that it is uses the same NEW system for rewards + only using minimum lvl

can't fully comment on that as i haven't levelled in the new environment yet
Fri 8 Nov 2019 4:04 PM by Mavella
400hp boost seem insane. Especially combined with heal pots + IP. I question if I'll be able to do 3k+ dmg before running out of endurance before the end of every fight.

If this HP increase is supposed to combat debuff nukes I know I eat them for 400-500 dmg. I'm guessing this change will get people to live approximately 0.5 seconds longer in those situations.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 4:36 PM by gotwqqd
Expfighter wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:49 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:44 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:42 PM
10 items to get 1.15 bubs sounds terrible. It seems that at 49 doing the rvr task will get you .1 of a bubble now, is that right?
It used to get about 4 bubs
Now should be 4*.25=1 bub

well it seems that the calculation is a decreasing one as you lvl higher! 1 bub for a set of 10 xp items is like live, and well I won't tell you exactly what my thoughts on that are!
Yes the reduction becomes greater and greater as you go from 19 on. Used to be 30?
But my formula is only stating what it is for level 49....prior xp amount to new amount
Fri 8 Nov 2019 6:47 PM by shintacki
can I still level a character from 1-50 completely solo in 25 hours or so?
Fri 8 Nov 2019 6:49 PM by Luse
The XP changes as far as turn ins, tokens are horrible....It took me 2 hours to go from 39-40. In that time chain killing yellows, I received 20 Mud Crab Legs - got 6 task tokens and the tasks. Got 1 bub per 10 turn ins. Got rough a bub for all the tokens and the Tasks gave me like 2 bubs or so. How is this better? This makes it a painful grind, and has the opposite effect on "Non-desirable" classes.

To farm these items - people will get on AE classes and farm the camps, sell them at a stupid price.

Solos will be grinding forever.

PLEASE for the love of god, change this back. Before the change I was soloing a level every 30-40 minutes easily, and that's even before I was using the RvR Tasks.

Thanks...
Fri 8 Nov 2019 7:12 PM by Voso
1) Bounty points will be shared across all your characters per realm per account, like money

This is a good change. Nice work

2) Professions will be shared across all your characters per realm per account, for existing characters the highest value per profession will be used. (If one of your current chars has 1200 alchemy and the other 1100 you would end up with 1200).

Good job again.

3) The social xp bonus will be reworked
- the unique class constraint will be removed
- the given % bonus will be adjusted to be the inverse of their natural desirability for groups as seen so far
-- certain classes will be reduced to 1% bonus (pbae caster)
-- many classes will be reduced to 3% (e. g. well represented support, most remaining caster)
-- some classes will be increased to 6% (some melees, warden)
-- a few classes will be increased to 9% (some melees)

Makes sense to include all classes nicely done.

4) Increased customizability for procs
Existing procs will become replaceable, this will be for player crafted items only at first and may or may not be opened up for all items later on. At the same time we will also introduce some npc that will take the most expensive craftable proc together with any item that has a proc on it (not a charge) and in return you will receive the proc that this item had on it to apply it to any of your weapons or armor, please note that until (if ever) we make procs on non crafted items replaceable you will only be able to apply this proc to crafted armor / weapons.
This proc that you receive will become an offensive proc when applied to weapons, a reactive proc when applied to armor and proc for both cases when applied to a shield. Please note that both the most expensive craftable proc as well as the item you give to this npc will be destroyed.
Example:
You give the craftable epic heal proc as well as some rog weapon with a 95 delve lifedrain proc to the npc, these items are now destroyed but in return you receive a proc item with the 95 delve lifedrain proc that you can freely apply to one of your weapons or armor pieces. The same would also work for the epic dungeon chests to receive the higher heal proc.

Ok, but this doesn't seem like a good idea... How does this affect dual welding classes that already have IP, Heal pots, etc to extend their survive ability

5) Task XP Rework
- collection task turn in limitations will be removed
- drop rate for collection task items will be adjusted
- 2 new location dependent kill tasks will be added: kill mobs in classic overworld zones, kill mobs in si overworld zones
- completing a task will result in receiving a new item that can be traded as well as turned in at your trainer, turning in these items represents another task where the turn in requirements per task level follow the fibonacci sequence (1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34....), that means everyone will without any effort at all complete the first couple levels while making higher levels of this task pretty much unattainable giving a reason to either save or sell remaining tokens or to use them with other characters. Completing this new turn in task will itself not provide a task completion token.
- the xp reward for task completions (kill x animals etc., rvr tasks) will be changed to your level * the xp you would receive for a mob of your level, this is an increase up to level 19 and an increasing reduction from there on, at level 49 this would be a reduction to 25% of the current value. Please note that collection task item turn in is tied to the same reward system but instead of using your current level these turn ins will always use the minimum level of the item.
- gold reward will be adjusted in two ways, 1) in part due to the now more available tasks the reward itself will be lowered in general and 2) the reward will become static, using the average mob value times some multiplier and not the current random 75% - 125% mob value times some multiplier.

Sounded good, but after testing this change it is extremely frustrating and toxic for the server. I don't understand why you want to force new players to level even longer when there are plenty of other games which are better for PVE. Lets get more players to 50 and realize that this game is unique for RVR not for PVE. If I wanted to PVE I would play a game with better graphics, UI and overall massive population hence the MMoRPG genre.. This game is not alive because of the PVE.

6) Body Type XP Rework
Initially the plan / hope was to have a dynamic system that encourages people to seek out new spots and at the beginning it certainly worked well, however, due to how the dynamic bonus is determined there isn't really ever a change. To get back to the original intention we're changing it to be determined daily (will survive restarts as it will depend on the date), one body type will receive 25% bonus another 50%, another 75% and finally another 100%.

Ok I understand you want to move people around the PVE world.

7) Dense spawn areas will see some of their mobs receive spells that should not affect normal group play much, this only applies to classic and si zones
Example spells: a low damage instant cast snare nuke with a 10 second cool down
This will only affect the beach in albion and the red caps in moderna in midgard for now, more spots may or may not be changed or this might be rolled back depending on what happens in game.

Makes sense.

1) For player characters the HP per con modifier will be increased as if characters had a certain champion level, this assumed champion level will be the same for all classes except full tanks (arms, hero, warrior), there it will be a couple champion levels higher.

This is a terrible idea. If you're intending to fix the caster meta. How about reduce debuff dmg and/or make all tanks have the ability to climb up keeps/towers. This change assumes every caster group is running a debuff train to hit tanks for 600+ I don't understand why you always try to adjust something that has nothing to do with the problem. People aren't playing tanks because it is boring to sit in a ram and siege all day. While on a caster you can continue to fight while taking keeps/towers.

2) NPCs will receive a damage increase via an increase to their damage table, this will not affect certain pets that had manual adjustments (e.g. theurgist earth pets, hunter pet), this increase will not affect the defense penetration. As the damage table represents a multiplicator this will also increase the absolute damage change caused by strength buffs / debuffs. The expected damage of this damage table increase will be between 10 and 30%, depending on the mob.

Could you please elaborate why this change is necessary and how it is a QOL change?

3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.

Why does this need to be done?
Fri 8 Nov 2019 7:54 PM by Roto23
Mavella wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 4:04 PM
400hp boost seem insane. Especially combined with heal pots + IP. I question if I'll be able to do 3k+ dmg before running out of endurance before the end of every fight.

If this HP increase is supposed to combat debuff nukes I know I eat them for 400-500 dmg. I'm guessing this change will get people to live approximately 0.5 seconds longer in those situations.

They need to increase the Endo pool for mele classes and not increased the power pool
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:17 PM by Dadbodosteel
Xp currently is horrible. Full groups in frontier zone are not getting task credit like they are supposed to. Turn ins aren't worth farming for unless you are a farm class. And task ticks are extremely underwhelming. Solo I estimate most classes to take 35 hours to hit 50 and grouped players to hit 50 at around 22 hours. You just killed the fun for any new and newer players who would join the server.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 8:31 PM by Tyrlaan
Yeah new task xp (even with task token turn-in) is very underwhelming and slows down progression by alot. The social xp rework is more than counteracted by the reduced task xp. For undesireable classes task xp was a major portion of xp because they usually can kill 15 of several mob types solo (possibly with DF triple tasks) to at least see their xp bar move. I don´t think reducing xp progression is a good move at this stage. And while xp for the have-nots was reduced, people with too much time on their hands run around with 200% instance bonuses...
Fri 8 Nov 2019 9:04 PM by valicyn
these xp changes are terrible. I turned in 40 items at lvl 47 all were good for lvl 47 and got a total of 3 bubbles of xp. For anyone that solo levels this is a very bad change. And for stealthers that are forced to solo level its even worse. I preferred it the way it was. 10 items per lvl was fine.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 9:27 PM by Zorgs
Xp changes are horrible yes.
This is a freeshard, and isnt it meant to get people 50 fast to go in rvr or end-game pve (instances)?
Making it so much more painful to lvl up and gaining xp is a bad move imo.
If people wanna grind lvls, there are many other mmo's out there thats better for that. This is again a freeshard, and I dont see the logic in makin it so much more painful to lvl to 50.

PS. Love the changes to professions and shared BP's though.

Zorgs
Fri 8 Nov 2019 10:03 PM by Toadster
Does anyone have a breakdown of the HP increase per point on Constitution for each class umbrella (ie. heavy tanks, light tanks, support, casters).

The increase is a function of constitution, right?
Fri 8 Nov 2019 10:09 PM by Keltar
Sincerely hope they back track on the XP changes... or they boost the value of the turn ins. 40 items to get roughly the same you'd get from 10 items? They said they adjusted the drop rates, does that mean they adjusted the drops to be more frequent or less frequent? My cynic self always interprets an "adjustment" as a nerf not a boost!

The social XP change is garbage like I explained in detail a few pages ago. A 50% XP bonus is barely worth mentioning because it's calculated on the base value of the mob and not compounded with all the other bonuses. I personally have 53% instance bonus, and a solo kill vs. someone with 0% XP bonus results in roughly 12% more XP difference. It's nice, but 53% instance bonus kinda took me a while to achieve...
Fri 8 Nov 2019 10:33 PM by JaggedOne
valicyn wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 9:04 PM
these xp changes are terrible. I turned in 40 items at lvl 47 all were good for lvl 47 and got a total of 3 bubbles of xp. For anyone that solo levels this is a very bad change. And for stealthers that are forced to solo level its even worse. I preferred it the way it was. 10 items per lvl was fine.

OMG, this is terrible !!! Previously, a turn-in of 10 items at level 47 would get you just over 4 bubs. I know, I leveled 3 Animists to 50 solo in the last month or so.

This is a death knell for a server that was great prior to this change and the ridiculous astronomical bump in repair costs.
What could they possibly have been thinking ??? This is just.....unbelievable......
Fri 8 Nov 2019 10:40 PM by Vlas
You really screwed us on the xp turn ins here u can turn in more but here we are cutting the xp a stack is worth by 90% some how I dont see the logic .
should have left amount as it was so people can get to 50 faster which we need in rvr And the drop rate sucks on top of that 2 toons leveled out of the turn in criteria and not one drop
Fri 8 Nov 2019 10:46 PM by easytoremember
Are you going to adjust aggro generated by healing a bit with the player HP boon and mob damage buff? The amount of healing needed goes up a bit (for the player's health bar visual % and for incoming damage from mobs). As it is a healer blowing his instas on himself while he has aggro is nigh impossible for non-taunt classes to pull the aggro off up until the mob is dead

Edit: didn't know patch was live already; healer instas aggro bit above ^ is from pre-patch settings and I assume it is harder to peel those mobs post-patch

--
I like the body type change. It was dumb having certain types of mobs always being obselete to hunt
Fri 8 Nov 2019 11:01 PM by Sixin2082
I was really hoping that the xp change was to speed things up. I know it wasn't slow, but if end game rvr is the goal why slow it down.

I am also wary of the proc change. At face value, easier templating is a good thing, and this will let people have more flexibility in how they temp and make it easier to get into rvr with an in progress temp. But the potential for 8 SI heal procs is something that needs to be considered.

Is there a way to restrict the proc you steal from an item be restricted to the same kind of item. That way you'd still only have 1 SI chest proc, but you could go out and find ROGs to get life tap or other effects off of.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 11:20 PM by Vkejai
Terrible just terrible, time for a break I think .
Fri 8 Nov 2019 11:22 PM by Toobad
Regarding the XP task item changes, after XPing a bit, I can concur that the turn in is very dismal. Even more frustrating is that the drop rate has been reduced requiring even more time to accumulate the XP items. When I first read of the planned changes I was hoping it would accelerate the leveling process, but have been sorely disappointed that it is much more tedious and time consuming.

It is sad that on a level 28 toon, 10 items provides about 2.5 bubs, and it takes more time to obtain the items. The scary part is that it will only get worse as I level various toons to higher levels.

As others have said on this post, allow us to PvP, and not increase the time sink to level. Not everyone plays 40-50 hours a week, and those who don't are greatly penalized by the changes.
Fri 8 Nov 2019 11:56 PM by canzian
New task system is very bad and no sense.. old system is much better
Sat 9 Nov 2019 12:05 AM by Nidd
You have killed my caster spec by increasing the HP.

I'm currently the 6th highest realm rank mentalist on the server (9L3) and you have completely killed my pvp mana spec. it was already hard to play this way, as you know mana on a ment is mainly used for pve but at high realm rank and full damage RA's it is a great fun way to play a mentalist, now with the increase in HP it is now pretty much impossible to be affective in rvr with 'damage over time', as the tick timer will run out and players would still be alive.

if you have a problem with tanks dying from debuffs and nukes please slightly nerf the debuff. Don't tar everyone with the same brush because it leads to this kind of stuff happening to other players. This kind 'update' is why I don't play ToA etc and only play classic, so many other original builds people can play, but this will badly affects all classes including steathers.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DROP THE HP INCREASE, if not i'm sadly considering quitting the server.

gutted with todays update.
Sat 9 Nov 2019 1:13 AM by Killaloth
Let's wait and see.

I think something went wrong with the new turn in system, I don't think it's in the GMs plan to slow down exp, quite the opposite so far. Give them time!

It would be nice to be able to purchase items with bps, not only feathers. Where 20k feathers = 10k bps to buy the item, I'm not a big fan of pve :/
Sat 9 Nov 2019 7:16 AM by Lillebror
After leveling many chars to 50 here and on Uthgard i see no point changing stuff here. It was fast to Get to both 50 and templated.

HP change i think is over done balance wise. Use time to fix pets snd interrupts in keep/towers
Sat 9 Nov 2019 7:26 AM by Boo
I think you should start a public vote for the xp-system. In my opinion this xp-modification needs to be made undone urgently!
Sat 9 Nov 2019 7:49 AM by Freudinio
When Uthgard clearly did not work in the long run, why on earth would you then try and mirror it?
Sat 9 Nov 2019 8:20 AM by Fenork
Boo wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 7:26 AM
I think you should start a public vote for the xp-system. In my opinion this xp-modification needs to be made undone urgently!

This
Sat 9 Nov 2019 8:48 AM by Tyrlaan
Boo wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 7:26 AM
I think you should start a public vote for the xp-system. In my opinion this xp-modification needs to be made undone urgently!

I like shifting some of the xp reward by tokens (and soon people will have excess tokens on their 50s).
Just needs more xp at 40+. Diminishing returns already counter instant 50. It´s more efficient to stretch it over a couple days, to have the number reset.

Same for xp items. Unlimited turn-in is okay, the old restrictions required quite some knowledge and micro-management for full effect (to hand in the maximum allowed, use them at the best level for their level range etc. remember questions in /advice about odd xp item behavior). But both reduced xp and reduced drop rate is too much IMO. Either.
Sat 9 Nov 2019 10:02 AM by Topenga
the way it is now it's just a big pve nerf, just makes it harder to get to 50, not recommended
Sat 9 Nov 2019 10:47 AM by gruenesschaf
The last update increased the task / turn in xp noticeably again.
Sat 9 Nov 2019 11:34 AM by canzian
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 10:47 AM
The last update increased the task / turn in xp noticeably again.

Now is better, but i see reduced rp from task too.. is normal?
Sat 9 Nov 2019 12:20 PM by Forlornhope
Nidd wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 12:05 AM
You have killed my caster spec by increasing the HP.

I'm currently the 6th highest realm rank mentalist on the server (9L3) and you have completely killed my pvp mana spec. it was already hard to play this way, as you know mana on a ment is mainly used for pve but at high realm rank and full damage RA's it is a great fun way to play a mentalist, now with the increase in HP it is now pretty much impossible to be affective in rvr with 'damage over time', as the tick timer will run out and players would still be alive.

if you have a problem with tanks dying from debuffs and nukes please slightly nerf the debuff. Don't tar everyone with the same brush because it leads to this kind of stuff happening to other players. This kind 'update' is why I don't play ToA etc and only play classic, so many other original builds people can play, but this will badly affects all classes including steathers.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DROP THE HP INCREASE, if not i'm sadly considering quitting the server.

gutted with todays update.
You're still incredibly effective in what a mana ment can do in rvr, break all cc.
Sat 9 Nov 2019 2:00 PM by alexino2
canzian wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 11:34 AM
Now is better, but i see reduced rp from task too.. is normal?

Yes, realm task bonuses is now daily random
Sat 9 Nov 2019 2:55 PM by Sepplord
alexino2 wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 2:00 PM
canzian wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 11:34 AM
Now is better, but i see reduced rp from task too.. is normal?

Yes, realm task bonuses is now daily random

? Could you explain what you mean?

The mobtype XP Boni are random, what about RP got changed?
Sat 9 Nov 2019 5:33 PM by canzian
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 2:55 PM
alexino2 wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 2:00 PM
canzian wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 11:34 AM
Now is better, but i see reduced rp from task too.. is normal?

Yes, realm task bonuses is now daily random

? Could you explain what you mean?

The mobtype XP Boni are random, what about RP got changed?

my error, they not change rp ammount sorry
Sat 9 Nov 2019 6:47 PM by Forlornhope
Lillebror wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 7:16 AM
After leveling many chars to 50 here and on Uthgard i see no point changing stuff here. It was fast to Get to both 50 and templated.

HP change i think is over done balance wise. Use time to fix pets snd interrupts in keep/towers

See, according to them the pets and interrupts in towers with gtaoe are working as intended. So, there's nothing to fix there.
Sat 9 Nov 2019 7:33 PM by JaggedOne
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 10:47 AM
The last update increased the task / turn in xp noticeably again.


But it is still waaaaay lower than it was.
Also, the huge nerf in drop rates of turn-in items remains unchanged.

These two changes have destroyed solo leveling in this game.
Please please please change them back to the way they were.!!!!!!
Sat 9 Nov 2019 7:53 PM by Zorgs
Even though the xp has been increased its still horrible.
What is the reason you want people to stay "below 50" for a longer time?? There is not huge content on this server for people below 50. On Live servers there are lots of content to explore and do stuff in, but this is a freeshard, and the purpose should be to get to 50 and out in rvr. Why dont you want people to get 50 fast? I dont get it!
This gotta be changed or im leaving the server, and so are several others i am playing with.

Zorgs
Sat 9 Nov 2019 8:11 PM by JaggedOne
Zorgs wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 7:53 PM
Even though the xp has been increased its still horrible.
What is the reason you want people to stay "below 50" for a longer time?? There is not huge content on this server for people below 50. On Live servers there are lots of content to explore and do stuff in, but this is a freeshard, and the purpose should be to get to 50 and out in rvr. Why dont you want people to get 50 fast? I dont get it!
This gotta be changed or im leaving the server, and so are several others i am playing with.



Could not agree more with all your statements !!!
AAMOF, my guild is now actively talking about looking for another shard or even going back to [UNNAMED].
Sat 9 Nov 2019 9:17 PM by keen
JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 8:11 PM
Zorgs wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 7:53 PM
Even though the xp has been increased its still horrible.
What is the reason you want people to stay "below 50" for a longer time?? There is not huge content on this server for people below 50. On Live servers there are lots of content to explore and do stuff in, but this is a freeshard, and the purpose should be to get to 50 and out in rvr. Why dont you want people to get 50 fast? I dont get it!
This gotta be changed or im leaving the server, and so are several others i am playing with.



Could not agree more with all your statements !!!
AAMOF, my guild is now actively talking about looking for another shard or even going back to [UNNAMED].
Not supporting changes making this server harder to get to 50. Also dont see the point of that, but when did ppl in your guild start on this server that you dont already have multiple 50s so you have to quit the server instead of playing the ones you already have?
Sat 9 Nov 2019 10:05 PM by chryso
This large xp nerf is very disappointing. I am not going to quit playing but I certainly don't want to level any new toons after this.

Maybe that is the point. Maybe they want people to play their 50s instead of alts.
Sat 9 Nov 2019 10:37 PM by Zorgs
chryso wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 10:05 PM
This large xp nerf is very disappointing. I am not going to quit playing but I certainly don't want to level any new toons after this.

Maybe that is the point. Maybe they want people to play their 50s instead of alts.

Well - that sucks for new players then. Without getting new players, this server is doomed...
Sat 9 Nov 2019 10:52 PM by Keltar
The rotating "body" bonus XP to avoid everyone hunting the same reptile/dragon camps on all three realms is great on paper.

But... unless it's a bug, right now there's only 4 mob types with any sort of bonuses. 200% humanoids, 150% demons, 75% dragons and 50% plants. So that's nice, as it rotates and allows for variety and more exploration of the worlds, in a sense. But in truth, it's a huge nerf for most XP groups. Sure the 150% demons will make DF awesome, however before the change you had many mobs at or around 250% and some in the 300%s depending on the realm you're on. And overall, I think half the mob types would have a bonus, the other half would have no bonus. Right now, four mob types have a bonus and 7 have no bonus.

I suggest you have the bonuses applied to ALL mobs. And that it'd go from 50% to 300% spread over all the 11 mob types that we have. Increased by 25%, and randomized every day. That would be an acceptable alternative and not nerf the overall XP scene. Again and again, the harder it is for a new person to join or for someone to level/template a toon to be RvR ready, the more we'll see population issues.
Sun 10 Nov 2019 1:35 AM by alexino2
Keltar wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Nov 2019 10:52 PM
The rotating "body" bonus XP to avoid everyone hunting the same reptile/dragon camps on all three realms is great on paper.

But... unless it's a bug, right now there's only 4 mob types with any sort of bonuses. 200% humanoids, 150% demons, 75% dragons and 50% plants. So that's nice, as it rotates and allows for variety and more exploration of the worlds, in a sense. But in truth, it's a huge nerf for most XP groups. Sure the 150% demons will make DF awesome, however before the change you had many mobs at or around 250% and some in the 300%s depending on the realm you're on. And overall, I think half the mob types would have a bonus, the other half would have no bonus. Right now, four mob types have a bonus and 7 have no bonus.

I suggest you have the bonuses applied to ALL mobs. And that it'd go from 50% to 300% spread over all the 11 mob types that we have. Increased by 25%, and randomized every day. That would be an acceptable alternative and not nerf the overall XP scene. Again and again, the harder it is for a new person to join or for someone to level/template a toon to be RvR ready, the more we'll see population issues.

Couldn't agree more !

About item task, it's a good thing to avoid player to go solo, so i like this change. BUT, you should have put a 100% (or more) xp bonus group !! If the whole point is to make friend and prepare us for rvr / raid, the most logic sense would be to increase xp on groups, without slowing down the progress of new players / toons.
Sun 10 Nov 2019 1:52 AM by BPICKEREL
This is the final nail in the coffin for me. My two cents.

As a father who works full time, I rarely have time to play as it is. I made the mistake early on of leveling too many characters and not sticking to one or two mains. When I finally decided on a SB I ran in to two huge issues (1. I had not done a raid and could not use feathers for must have items - TG vest) 2. I had no money for a template to be competitive with such high level players.

I recently started leveling a shaman for farming and now the main camp along with the xp system is nerfed. Shouldnt we make it easier for new players to catch up than create the divide between elite on a server where the population is slowly dying.
Sun 10 Nov 2019 10:00 AM by dearen75
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 3:38 PM
dearen75 wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Nov 2019 2:26 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.

Really? Why? What seems to me is that many SBs whine on forum for str/con proc fix and after only few weeks you give them this "cookie" so they stop crying
So now, can we have a celt ns if we open a 10 pages thread whining about it ?
Really disappointed

Don't forget, they opened MULTIPLE whine threads. I guess the squeaky wheel really does get the grease. Just like Live.

Yeah.. a single 10 pages thread may isn't enough .. really don't understand the need of this change .. and the hp increase also is very bad for every stealther.. just now you get added often on 1 vs 1.. more hp = longer fight = bigger chance you get added .. the devs really hates steathers .. but people here only complains about pve changes
Sun 10 Nov 2019 10:48 AM by Ele
I can't say anything to the changes regarding the xp gain as I have only rvr'ed the last couple days, but I'd like to give some feedback to the constitution multiplier change.
We - that is the people I tend to rvr with - really like the change. It gives the fights more depth because there is a good chance that healing classes can react to debuff caster teams, even if a caster is getting nuked. That way coordinating interrupts becomes more important and fights get longer, hence more interesting.
Sun 10 Nov 2019 11:43 AM by borodino1812
I do not understand the change to the solo xp. It was one of the things that worked well, why tinker with this?
Sun 10 Nov 2019 11:45 AM by Forlornhope
Curious, is there any word on what's going on/decided with the proc changes? Would love a little more info on that.
Sun 10 Nov 2019 12:25 PM by romulus
Hi!
With the mobs and NPCs now on a higher damage table, I notice that my cabbie pet gets hit a lot harder than it used to. Just testing on Orc Coast Guards, singles used to hit my pet for around 49-59 per swing, and now are hitting for 79 per swing. Is this nerf of cab pets intended? Does this nerf extend to other pet classes as well? Does it affect charmed pets, or just summoned pets?

Thanks!
Sun 10 Nov 2019 12:31 PM by Northztorm
I am also quite interested in knowing more about proc changes and what it will entail. I myself am going to make a stealther template but have doubts whether to wait or not. : so when can we expect to hear more about it ??
Sun 10 Nov 2019 1:36 PM by Forlornhope
Northztorm wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 12:31 PM
I am also quite interested in knowing more about proc changes and what it will entail. I myself am going to make a stealther template but have doubts whether to wait or not. : so when can we expect to hear more about it ??

I'd wait until something is announced, they're looking into the concerns everyone had regarding the galla/sidi/tg procs being way to strong put on every piece or armor/weapons. And the imbalance of alb getting a 200 50% ablative compared to hib/mid getting only 150 from the player crafted. Among other concerns, those are the big ones imo. I think Alb has like a higher haste proc then the other realms as well. It's fine how it is because the armor the ablative is on is niche and you'd have to temp in that weapon or be weaponless. But once you can put it on every piece, zero balance.
Sun 10 Nov 2019 2:14 PM by Freedomcall
romulus wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 12:25 PM
Hi!
With the mobs and NPCs now on a higher damage table, I notice that my cabbie pet gets hit a lot harder than it used to. Just testing on Orc Coast Guards, singles used to hit my pet for around 49-59 per swing, and now are hitting for 79 per swing. Is this nerf of cab pets intended? Does this nerf extend to other pet classes as well? Does it affect charmed pets, or just summoned pets?

Thanks!

Just guessing by inference, but yes, i think petpull was nerfed as a result.
1) There wasn't any change on dmg table of players.
2) If HP of NPC has raised, that becomes a relative nerf to dmg of players.
3) In conclusion, I guess NPC's HP must be just as same as before update.

So Mobs hit harder + your pet HP hasn't changed -> your pet will die faster -> pet pull nerf
I strongly guess your pet will hit mobs harder, too, thou, but that's won't help pet pull much XD

Think this is interesting point thou.
I'm guessing pets will kill each others faster now on pet vs pet.
Sun 10 Nov 2019 3:17 PM by gotwqqd
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 2:14 PM
romulus wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 12:25 PM
Hi!
With the mobs and NPCs now on a higher damage table, I notice that my cabbie pet gets hit a lot harder than it used to. Just testing on Orc Coast Guards, singles used to hit my pet for around 49-59 per swing, and now are hitting for 79 per swing. Is this nerf of cab pets intended? Does this nerf extend to other pet classes as well? Does it affect charmed pets, or just summoned pets?

Thanks!

Just guessing by inference, but yes, i think petpull was nerfed as a result.
1) There wasn't any change on dmg table of players.
2) If HP of NPC has raised, that becomes a relative nerf to dmg of players.
3) In conclusion, I guess NPC's HP must be just as same as before update.

So Mobs hit harder + your pet HP hasn't changed -> your pet will die faster -> pet pull nerf
I strongly guess your pet will hit mobs harder, too, thou, but that's won't help pet pull much XD

Think this is interesting point thou.
I'm guessing pets will kill each others faster now on pet vs pet.
It’s just a compounded leveling nerf
Sun 10 Nov 2019 6:30 PM by Toobad
The XP turn-in is still significantly worse even after the change to "increase XP from drop items" that was put in on Saturday. in addition, the drop rate also remains lower than before the changes were applied.

As an example,
At Level 30, I turned in 10 Faerie Frog Eyes and I received 2.27 bubs of XP. At that level, the XP would have been close to 3 times that amount. In addition, it took killing 60+ frogs to get the 10 eyes.

Please turn the XP changes back to the way it was. These changes will keep people from creating alts, and will deter new people from joining the game. One of the hugse attractions of this game over the other versions was that we could level faster and get to end-game PvP. Now, the grind is painful, and will drive server numbers down. The intent of increasing the number of XP items that can be turned in was expected to reduce leveling time. However, it results in the opposite (not to mention the impact of the mob type bonus changes).

Unfortunately, the impact of these changes and the other proposed changes will simply benefit hard-core players who play 40-50 hours a week, and increase the imbalance to those who simply don't have that amount of time to spend on the game. That's fine, if that is the intent. However, the result will be a much smaller subset of players and a lack of any significant new players to offset those who leave.
Sun 10 Nov 2019 8:04 PM by JaggedOne
Toobad wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 6:30 PM
The XP turn-in is still significantly worse even after the change to "increase XP from drop items" that was put in on Saturday. in addition, the drop rate also remains lower than before the changes were applied.

As an example,
At Level 30, I turned in 10 Faerie Frog Eyes and I received 2.27 bubs of XP. At that level, the XP would have been close to 3 times that amount. In addition, it took killing 60+ frogs to get the 10 eyes.

Please turn the XP changes back to the way it was. These changes will keep people from creating alts, and will deter new people from joining the game. One of the hugse attractions of this game over the other versions was that we could level faster and get to end-game PvP. Now, the grind is painful, and will drive server numbers down. The intent of increasing the number of XP items that can be turned in was expected to reduce leveling time. However, it results in the opposite (not to mention the impact of the mob type bonus changes).

Unfortunately, the impact of these changes and the other proposed changes will simply benefit hard-core players who play 40-50 hours a week, and increase the imbalance to those who simply don't have that amount of time to spend on the game. That's fine, if that is the intent. However, the result will be a much smaller subset of players and a lack of any significant new players to offset those who leave.


YES YES YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a great job of summing up the disaster this last set of xp changes was, pretty much wiping out solo leveling and alt-making.

As he said, please turn the XP changes back to the way it was !!!!!
Sun 10 Nov 2019 8:28 PM by vilcleft
Well, this may well further alienate me from further parts of the community, but I am sticking up for the Devs and some of the changes.

Friday, being day 1 of the patch, was a bit of a mess, but that the same in pretty much every online persistent game Ive ever played, and as someone else said, playing on patch day is pretty much for the masochist, but the Devs spotted some of the issues and patched after about 12-16 hours or something and the majorly broken things were once again manageable again. Saturday was much better, but with saturday came the resetting of the "Dynamic Mob bonuses" which basically reset all xp bonuses on mobs to zero with a few starting bonuses. Hopefully over time these will again morph into bonuses where each realm will once again find its rhythm on where the top xp spots are

We are in a slightly new pve meta, and we just need to learn to adapt rather than cry and scream for a reversion. Obviously there are some valid points being made by some players with very valid arguments but those points are getting lost in the generic whineage

Lets start with tasks and task tokens.

Using a generic set of numbers, most of this patch change seems to be about unifying all xp token items and transferable xp to be centred around a single unit of measurement for each level, the yellow mob xp value. So mob dropped xp items are rated to this, as are the new task tokens. And now since the task token is effectively a transferrable XP item, you are generally better off than you were pre-patch. From my experiences, you now get just under half the task xp instantly that you used to, and this makes it feel like you are levelling slower, but on my level 43 currently levelling toon, I was getting about 40% xp per task instantly + a task token. If I hand this task token in immediately, then it gives me another 40% and then another 40% for completing level 1 of the turning in task tokens task. So based on a single task, I am in credit compared to pre-patch, if I complete 6 tasks (without gaining a level) then even with the diminishing returns on the task token hand in task, then I am at 6*40 + 6*40 + 3*40 which is a break even point compared to the old system ASSUMING I havent gained a level during this time.

If you have gained a level between gaining the token and handing it in, then you are in massive credit. Now that the value of a yellow mob is a standard measurement, and a yellow mob of level X+1 is greater than the value of a yellow mob at level X, then handing in your task token after gaining a level gains you the difference in these two values multiplied by your level. So you have a thing in your inventory which supplies you 40% of a task credit regardless of what level you gained it. An item worth maybe 4400 xp to a level 11 or 5,550,000,000 on a level 49 (random numbers for effect)

So for me, tasks as a separate entity which is an xp bonus, is better than before

Social bonuses. Well, they were useless before, they are useless now. Until the bonuses become significant then it will stay irrelevant. Something like a bonus of 500%- number of different characters of that class played in a given week * a class specific multiplier, so a warden might get a multiplier of 1 and if 40 different wardens were played in a week, then wardens get an xp bonus of 460%, animists might get a multiplier of 5 so if more than 100 animists play in a given week then animists could bring a negative xp to a group (just being radical to make the point, not a completely serious suggestion)

Collection task item changes. Definitely less enthused with these changes, but with a few GM tweaks it could be moved back into satisfactory status, so will see where it goes. It seems weird to me that complaining about something that is free xp, when it changes to something that is slightly less free xp per item but infinite free xp in potential seems like a nerf, but it is the people who solo, or are new to each realm who take a massive battering from this change, so I am sort of on their side in this. Before patch, a solo player could level pretty fast by farming 10 items, handing them in, and this would get you to level 35 pretty easily and even 35-50 fairly easily and along the way they would usually generate a few spares to use on an alt or to sell on CMs, and CM prices were fairly low 100-200 gold for a stack of 10 so there was a cheap way of getting your free xp off there as well. Now with the infinite limit, CMs will empty of spare xp items pretty quickly and it becomes a sellers market, very unfriendly to the solo/new player as the prices will escalate. You may also get the situation where every xp item camp is camped by animists (using hib as example) such that the solo player can no longer farm items without an argument with an ani (shuddering memories of artefact camping in toa).

Every part of this change seems wrong to me, inifinite hand ins lowers availability = higher prices, lower value per hand in means more are needed making the prices rise, and lower drop rates makes them less available so the prices rise, if as an animist I can now only farm 40 per hour, then a stack of 10 is going to be on merchants for about 1p, which helps no one.

One of the changes on this needs reversing, either a new higher limit at say 25 or 40, but an actual limit per xp item, OR the drop rate needs to be dramatically increased so they drop every mob, such that demand can be more easily met.

What I have sort of felt since starting phoenix was that this is that xp collection tasks/items are sort of introducing WOW clone-esque quests into DaoC. Its just odd that even the original daoc had them as quests and yet on phoenix they are coded in some sort of more complicated manner, presumably to stop people getting big rewards from them as quests by being able to do all 4 level 40-44 quests at once, but frankly, I dont think anyone cares any more, just let each kill task item set be a unique set of 10 as a one time hand in with its level restrictions as current with a rewards of X times yellow mob xp for a yellow mob at the lowest level of available completion, and let us hand in more than one type per level if we so choose.

Mob type xp bonuses. Well, setting 90% of these to zero on a saturday when it is primetime play and most of your population is going to be on, ouch, not a good publicity stunt Im afraid. A resetting of the mob type bonuses probably was needed to properly make them dynamic as they had stagnated somewhat and made certain spots very popular making the whole thing static rather than dynamic. So now you have effectively stuffed the group xping players as suddenly the group xp experience has now been completely reduced to Uthgard levels. I sort of understand what I think you are trying to do with this, but eek at your instantaneous implementation. I assume if this is going to be really dynamic then you are collecting statistics on the mob kills etc from which to generate the bonuses, so perhaps a weeks worth of data needed to be stored and looked at and implemented based on that data rather than a reset to zero. I appreciate your attempts to make the world a more dynamic place for xp bonuses, hopefully it will settle down to a more appreciated status over a few short days.

As for the future stuff, I am against the proc changes and the only justification I can see for these changes would be if you are also going to introduce more craftable procs (snares for example) and this is going to be your method to allow people to re-proc armour and therefore not require full retemplating. Even so, if this were the case, it feels like a very very clunky way of doing this. And as a specific point on dislike, if we can extract epic vest procs, then each realms epic vests should cost the same feathers and each realms available procs have to be equalised, but even then I think my reaction to the proc changes would be a hard no.

Apologies to any readers for the excessive wall of text and gold stars to anyone who made it to the end without hating me

Wyst
Sun 10 Nov 2019 9:06 PM by Slash
Hello community,

I'm surprised there are not more posts about those fail changes...on melees, hybrids, and stuff...(HP buff, resistful etc) Without even considering the piercing implementation and the power balance patch...who both came way before that hp buff on live server. Something's wrong there.

I mean, to be clear, as an example :

Yesterday you kill a 6L+ BM who slams you, by using purge, pets snaring, 4 lifetaps and 5 casts, ending with 30-40%hp (on a 9L+ BD) Close fight.

Today, you wake up and hit the same target. You have inc on him. Pets disease and snare. You hit 11 casts for 200-250 and 5 lifetaps for 150-200. BM uses pots, heart of legion, and IP in the end. (after 3-4 more nukes) You run out of power. BM runs away and....you have not hastener speed anymore and are out of power...you run away too... BM Did not even hit you once !

Means you cant win a 1v1 on an hybrid (aye BM is considered hybrid) as a 9L+ BD ?

Not complaining at all about BD, or casters, or whatever. Just sayin this HP buff for no reason (indeed, none cried for it, but i guess some GM's might be playing mid melee right now, am i wrong ? :p) is totally unbalanced. And you obscured piercing patch and power percentage balance before going for it.
I'm sorry but that whole sh it makes no sense.

Your server, your rules i guess. But that will be without me that way.
Thanks for the good job till here, this one is a fail though. I sent every of you GM's about that before, only Clockwork answered me. Guess i got my answer.
See you around take care
Sun 10 Nov 2019 9:18 PM by Sepplord
vilcleft wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 8:28 PM
[...]

Could you elaborate on the task completion Tokens?
You mention that turning in such a token gives you XP AND counts for the token-turn-in-task?

Are you Sure? When i tried it i thought i only got XP for completion of the task (aka the one following fibonaci) and not for each individual token. But i was pretty tried and distracted.

I have to test the new system more before my final verdict. It is hard to gauge overall effectiveness of all Boni and what happens when the Tokens Start becoming cheap. But so far it doesnt feel good. Collection items got destroyed and if i "explore" and find a good camp, then i am forced to grind it out the same day. But when i play for 1hour and search a spot for 30mins thats fucked up. Before i would log there then, but now a spot wont be good anymore when i log in a few Days later

Thats really my biggest gripe regarding the XP system. Some changes seem to be helping the slow-leveller (new tokens tradeable and resetting daily) but others seem to punish the casual again.
It all feels so weird and unwarranted. Even if it is still ok, the question remains as to why?
Sun 10 Nov 2019 9:35 PM by Taniquetil
The biggest issue the server has currently is that coastguarding is a rewarded playstyle. leading to roaming being so choked to certain areas that it just ends up in a cluster**** every time peoples timers come up.

It was a problem before but now with the increased health pools, all that is really happening is that a fight is able to last longer and then more likely be ruined/leeched/ganked/zerged (pick your favourite). So has just made the problem worse.

Normally a big fan of the experiments and trials, this ones a definite no in its current state, the thought to balance out the caster meta, great, the end result, not tthere yet.

On top of this, ann incentive to roam/leave keeps is needed to get smallmans/solos/groups roaming instead of coastguarding. I realise not ALL groups do it, but damned if it isnt the vast majority.

something like a foraging task or zone control/zone bonus/malus to take people to different areas, or reward 'controlled exploration' lets call it.
Sun 10 Nov 2019 11:39 PM by Arla
Celerity all 3 realms
Sun 10 Nov 2019 11:48 PM by gotwqqd
Arla wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 11:39 PM
Celerity all 3 realms

The amalgamation of the realms is a mistake. As is what seems to be happening to some extent with classes.

Are we to have a system where everything is available to every “class/race” and it’s just a build your own stuffed bear shop?
Mon 11 Nov 2019 12:38 AM by Forlornhope
Slash wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 9:06 PM
Hello community,

I'm surprised there are not more posts about those fail changes...on melees, hybrids, and stuff...(HP buff, resistful etc) Without even considering the piercing implementation and the power balance patch...who both came way before that hp buff on live server. Something's wrong there.

I mean, to be clear, as an example :

Yesterday you kill a 6L+ BM who slams you, by using purge, pets snaring, 4 lifetaps and 5 casts, ending with 30-40%hp (on a 9L+ BD) Close fight.

Today, you wake up and hit the same target. You have inc on him. Pets disease and snare. You hit 11 casts for 200-250 and 5 lifetaps for 150-200. BM uses pots, heart of legion, and IP in the end. (after 3-4 more nukes) You run out of power. BM runs away and....you have not hastener speed anymore and are out of power...you run away too... BM Did not even hit you once !

Means you cant win a 1v1 on an hybrid (aye BM is considered hybrid) as a 9L+ BD ?

Not complaining at all about BD, or casters, or whatever. Just sayin this HP buff for no reason (indeed, none cried for it, but i guess some GM's might be playing mid melee right now, am i wrong ? :p) is totally unbalanced. And you obscured piercing patch and power percentage balance before going for it.
I'm sorry but that whole sh it makes no sense.

Your server, your rules i guess. But that will be without me that way.
Thanks for the good job till here, this one is a fail though. I sent every of you GM's about that before, only Clockwork answered me. Guess i got my answer.
See you around take care

this is quite an exaggeration. At best you're only looking at an extra 500-600 xp. That's like two-three extra casts. Even if there is a power issue, literally everyone is running with three power uses.. At least anyone who's reached rr9. My hero went from 2300-2800hp depending on who's buffing me and how much moa they have. It's made almost zero difference on debuff trains, which was the supposed reason, most players who run the debuff trains are rr7 plus so it may give your healer an extra second to get one heal off so you don't instantly die but then they just out burst your healers anyway. Even on a 1v1, most pet casters should still have zero issues with a straight melee enemy. Especially a bd.
Mon 11 Nov 2019 4:45 AM by Myr
leveling right now is not fun. please rethink these changes. i love this game but don't really even want to log in right now
Mon 11 Nov 2019 5:18 AM by JaggedOne
Arla wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 11:39 PM
Celerity all 3 realms


Or celerity for no realm, the better approach since simpler is always better.
Mon 11 Nov 2019 7:01 AM by Valaraukar
Arla wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 11:39 PM
Celerity all 3 realms

Yeah and aoe mezz at 1875 range and mushrooms also for all 3 realms
Not to mentinon purple pets for all 3 realms and so on...
Mon 11 Nov 2019 7:09 AM by Herf
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 7:01 AM
Arla wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 11:39 PM
Celerity all 3 realms

Yeah and aoe mezz at 1875 range and mushrooms also for all 3 realms
Not to mentinon purple pets for all 3 realms and so on...

Than we have to get rid on spec AF on Hib and Mid
Mon 11 Nov 2019 7:47 AM by Tyrlaan
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 12:38 AM
Slash wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 9:06 PM
...

this is quite an exaggeration. At best you're only looking at an extra 500-600 xp. That's like two-three extra casts. Even if there is a power issue, literally everyone is running with three power uses.. At least anyone who's reached rr9. My hero went from 2300-2800hp depending on who's buffing me and how much moa they have. It's made almost zero difference on debuff trains, which was the supposed reason, most players who run the debuff trains are rr7 plus so it may give your healer an extra second to get one heal off so you don't instantly die but then they just out burst your healers anyway. Even on a 1v1, most pet casters should still have zero issues with a straight melee enemy. Especially a bd.

It´s more than an extra 500-600 hp. Heals (IP, charge, pot) make it twice to 3x the amount. +1x for your Hero´s moose. So we´re looking at power /uses vs. heal /uses.

If debuff nuking is the problem then nerf debuffs for god´s sake. But to have a (non-debuff) caster or two spend their whole power bar (if allowed to cast freely) and still not be able to kill a tank is stupid beyond measure. Trying to balance this around 2-3 casters assisting on a debuffed target does break it for everybody else. If they are to survive this how would they even care about anything with less damage?
Mon 11 Nov 2019 7:56 AM by gotwqqd
Herf wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 7:09 AM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 7:01 AM
Arla wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 11:39 PM
Celerity all 3 realms

Yeah and aoe mezz at 1875 range and mushrooms also for all 3 realms
Not to mentinon purple pets for all 3 realms and so on...

Than we have to get rid on spec AF on Hib and Mid
And baseline stun for all casters
Mon 11 Nov 2019 8:19 AM by Sepplord
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 12:38 AM
this is quite an exaggeration. At best you're only looking at an extra 500-600 xp. That's like two-three extra casts. Even if there is a power issue, literally everyone is running with three power uses.. At least anyone who's reached rr9. My hero went from 2300-2800hp depending on who's buffing me and how much moa they have. It's made almost zero difference on debuff trains, which was the supposed reason, most players who run the debuff trains are rr7 plus so it may give your healer an extra second to get one heal off so you don't instantly die but then they just out burst your healers anyway. Even on a 1v1, most pet casters should still have zero issues with a straight melee enemy. Especially a bd.

That's the thing though...if it is supposed to nerf debuff-assist-nuking then the change is really weird. It does effect debuff-nukers in a fullgroup the least and has huge impact on all soloers / smallman / etc....
Mon 11 Nov 2019 9:11 AM by Slash
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 12:38 AM
Slash wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 9:06 PM
Hello community,

I'm surprised there are not more posts about those fail changes...on melees, hybrids, and stuff...(HP buff, resistful etc) Without even considering the piercing implementation and the power balance patch...who both came way before that hp buff on live server. Something's wrong there.

I mean, to be clear, as an example :

Yesterday you kill a 6L+ BM who slams you, by using purge, pets snaring, 4 lifetaps and 5 casts, ending with 30-40%hp (on a 9L+ BD) Close fight.

Today, you wake up and hit the same target. You have inc on him. Pets disease and snare. You hit 11 casts for 200-250 and 5 lifetaps for 150-200. BM uses pots, heart of legion, and IP in the end. (after 3-4 more nukes) You run out of power. BM runs away and....you have not hastener speed anymore and are out of power...you run away too... BM Did not even hit you once !

Means you cant win a 1v1 on an hybrid (aye BM is considered hybrid) as a 9L+ BD ?

Not complaining at all about BD, or casters, or whatever. Just sayin this HP buff for no reason (indeed, none cried for it, but i guess some GM's might be playing mid melee right now, am i wrong ? :p) is totally unbalanced. And you obscured piercing patch and power percentage balance before going for it.
I'm sorry but that whole sh it makes no sense.

Your server, your rules i guess. But that will be without me that way.
Thanks for the good job till here, this one is a fail though. I sent every of you GM's about that before, only Clockwork answered me. Guess i got my answer.
See you around take care

this is quite an exaggeration. At best you're only looking at an extra 500-600 xp. That's like two-three extra casts. Even if there is a power issue, literally everyone is running with three power uses.. At least anyone who's reached rr9. My hero went from 2300-2800hp depending on who's buffing me and how much moa they have. It's made almost zero difference on debuff trains, which was the supposed reason, most players who run the debuff trains are rr7 plus so it may give your healer an extra second to get one heal off so you don't instantly die but then they just out burst your healers anyway. Even on a 1v1, most pet casters should still have zero issues with a straight melee enemy. Especially a bd.

That's definetely not an exageration. I guess as the good hero you seem to be, you run magical resist ra, right ? It's a percentage of total hp resistance right ? Then make your own calculation if total hp pool is being upgraded. I'm sure you can do it and face what i was meaning. Not even talking about physical resistance and stuff.
I sent the fraps of this beautiful story to whoever needed to see it. That's a fact.
Also, main thing is, this hp patch is wrongly put in place, in a wrong order. Mana/Power balance patch was way before that, same for Piercing on casters. Makes juste no sense at all.
Mon 11 Nov 2019 9:59 AM by gruenesschaf
Slash wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 9:11 AM
That's definetely not an exageration. I guess as the good hero you seem to be, you run magical resist ra, right ? It's a percentage of total hp resistance right ? Then make your own calculation if total hp pool is being upgraded. I'm sure you can do it and face what i was meaning. Not even talking about physical resistance and stuff.
I sent the fraps of this beautiful story to whoever needed to see it. That's a fact.
Also, main thing is, this hp patch is wrongly put in place, in a wrong order. Mana/Power balance patch was way before that, same for Piercing on casters. Makes juste no sense at all.

AoM is just like PD a reduction of the incoming damage and has nothing to do with your hp. It's just that with the higher hp people might be more likely to actually spec those RAs. The mana consumption here has always been intentionally lower than what it "should" have been.
Mon 11 Nov 2019 10:40 AM by Slash
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 9:59 AM
Slash wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 9:11 AM
That's definetely not an exageration. I guess as the good hero you seem to be, you run magical resist ra, right ? It's a percentage of total hp resistance right ? Then make your own calculation if total hp pool is being upgraded. I'm sure you can do it and face what i was meaning. Not even talking about physical resistance and stuff.
I sent the fraps of this beautiful story to whoever needed to see it. That's a fact.
Also, main thing is, this hp patch is wrongly put in place, in a wrong order. Mana/Power balance patch was way before that, same for Piercing on casters. Makes juste no sense at all.

AoM is just like PD a reduction of the incoming damage and has nothing to do with your hp. It's just that with the higher hp people might be more likely to actually spec those RAs. The mana consumption here has always been intentionally lower than what it "should" have been.

What did i say different exactly ? My english might not be the best but i was pretty convinced it was clear. 2k hp or 2.5k hp makes a difference right ? SO it makes even more difference with PD and aom, sounds logical. Not hp based ? well if you get hit 10% less with magical and has 500hp more, that's a huge difference tbh.
Also you say it's intentional to have less power pool here. Ok, i can deal with that. But from the moment you implement some sort of patch that came AFTER piercing and power pool balance, especially to balance those two previous patches, im sorry, that makes no sense.

You are GM, you dont agree with me, that's a thing and i respec that, but you can't say im wrong or lying, these are facts.
Have a good day
Mon 11 Nov 2019 11:07 AM by gromet12
Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 9:35 PM
The biggest issue the server has currently is that coastguarding is a rewarded playstyle. leading to roaming being so choked to certain areas that it just ends up in a cluster**** every time peoples timers come up.

It was a problem before but now with the increased health pools, all that is really happening is that a fight is able to last longer and then more likely be ruined/leeched/ganked/zerged (pick your favourite). So has just made the problem worse.

Normally a big fan of the experiments and trials, this ones a definite no in its current state, the thought to balance out the caster meta, great, the end result, not tthere yet.

On top of this, ann incentive to roam/leave keeps is needed to get smallmans/solos/groups roaming instead of coastguarding. I realise not ALL groups do it, but damned if it isnt the vast majority.

something like a foraging task or zone control/zone bonus/malus to take people to different areas, or reward 'controlled exploration' lets call it.

Wouldn’t coastguarding be considered the same as dock supplymaster turn-in camping?
Mon 11 Nov 2019 11:15 AM by Ele
Slash wrote:
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 9:59 AM
The mana consumption here has always been intentionally lower than what it "should" have been.

Slash wrote: Also you say it's intentional to have less power pool here. Ok, i can deal with that.
You are GM, you dont agree with me, that's a thing and i respec that, but you can't say im wrong or lying, these are facts.
Have a good day

Small clarification: Schaf wrote about power cost beeing lower on this server compared to live back then. Power pool is the same.
Mon 11 Nov 2019 11:26 AM by gruenesschaf
Slash wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 10:40 AM
Slash wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 9:11 AM
That's definetely not an exageration. I guess as the good hero you seem to be, you run magical resist ra, right ? It's a percentage of total hp resistance right ? Then

What did i say different exactly ? My english might not be the best but i was pretty convinced it was clear. 2k hp or 2.5k hp makes a difference right ? SO it makes even more difference with PD and aom, sounds logical. Not hp based ? well if you get hit 10% less with magical and has 500hp more, that's a huge difference tbh.
Also you say it's intentional to have less power pool here. Ok, i can deal with that. But from the moment you implement some sort of patch that came AFTER piercing and power pool balance, especially to balance those two previous patches, im sorry, that makes no sense.

You are GM, you dont agree with me, that's a thing and i respec that, but you can't say im wrong or lying, these are facts.
Have a good day


You made it sound like PD or AoM provide resist % based on your hp. If you were trying to say that with a higher hp pool you will likely see more of an effect you are correct.

Power pool is as it should be but the consumption aka actually deducted mana when casting a spell, is lower than what it should be. Effectively every caster has and always had a 20% mana cost reduction.
Mon 11 Nov 2019 2:12 PM by keen
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
turning in these items represents another task where the turn in requirements per task level follow the fibonacci sequence (1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34....),
Little difference, big impact. Fibonacci sequence starts with (0),1,1,2 etc.
So we should get 1 more task completion with just handing in one task item
Mon 11 Nov 2019 3:24 PM by Raithax
I love this server, I love DAOC, but the changes are just a bad idea imo. I'm not a kid anymore with tons of time on my hands, and while I don't mind grinding RR levels at 50 cause that's always how it's been, the xp changes just don't make much sense if you want to keep this wonderful DAOC freeshard alive.

1) Groups without pbae are just slow, which is fine but the xp bonus does not offset the slower pace.
2) It's still much more beneficial to solo over grouping when it comes to reliable xp, which is sad. Groups now have to take time to decide where to go. Some are at high caps for some areas while others are not. Then when we find an area, everyone has to get there. Being in unfamiliar territory, people die a lot more as well. The whole experience so far has been a slog.
3) Vague patch notes are disappointing. "XP per turn in has been changed", or similar such notes leave the players to determine what this means. Vague notes mean we don't get what you're goal is with changes.
4) These changes have created huge barriers to entry (move all over the world for good xp bonuses, slower xp overall, slower RR gains), don't you want to make this freeshard friendlier to new players?
5) It was pretty good before? I didn't see any complaints about leveling really, why change it?

Please consider all the feedback and communicate with us. I really appreciate what you guys are doing for us that love DAOC.
Mon 11 Nov 2019 3:40 PM by Slash
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 11:26 AM
Slash wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 10:40 AM
Slash wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 9:11 AM
That's definetely not an exageration. I guess as the good hero you seem to be, you run magical resist ra, right ? It's a percentage of total hp resistance right ? Then

What did i say different exactly ? My english might not be the best but i was pretty convinced it was clear. 2k hp or 2.5k hp makes a difference right ? SO it makes even more difference with PD and aom, sounds logical. Not hp based ? well if you get hit 10% less with magical and has 500hp more, that's a huge difference tbh.
Also you say it's intentional to have less power pool here. Ok, i can deal with that. But from the moment you implement some sort of patch that came AFTER piercing and power pool balance, especially to balance those two previous patches, im sorry, that makes no sense.

You are GM, you dont agree with me, that's a thing and i respec that, but you can't say im wrong or lying, these are facts.
Have a good day


You made it sound like PD or AoM provide resist % based on your hp. If you were trying to say that with a higher hp pool you will likely see more of an effect you are correct.

Power pool is as it should be but the consumption aka actually deducted mana when casting a spell, is lower than what it should be. Effectively every caster has and always had a 20% mana cost reduction.

I wrote power percentage on first topic, power pool as a mistake on second.

I just feel like being fooled about speaking with words in an other langage than mine. When the problem is definetely not there.

This patch is a mistake. You cant just pick a patch among many, ignoring others before and after. That makes no sense. I believe you know it anyway.
Whatever do your things.
Mon 11 Nov 2019 3:55 PM by Lux.Thoras
I think you did not understand what gruenesschaf was saying.

Compared to live server you already ever had a 20% less power consumption. If the HP buff will be removed and they remove the 20% less power consumption you will face the same problems with lower HPs because your spells will consume more power as before and you will run earlier out of mana as before but with less HP.

This does not mean that I like this HP Buff, but I understand the argumentation about that.
Mon 11 Nov 2019 4:05 PM by Slash
Lux.Thoras wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 3:55 PM
I think you did not understand what gruenesschaf was saying.

Compared to live server you already ever had a 20% less power consumption. If the HP buff will be removed and they remove the 20% less power consumption you will face the same problems with lower HPs because your spells will consume more power as before and you will run earlier out of mana as before but with less HP.

This does not mean that I like this HP Buff, but I understand the argumentation about that.

PD and AOM makes no difference with less power, but they do with more hp. That's the only logic argumentation to have tbh. It's exponential difference that way.
But yeah i got his argumentation too. But sorry, not receivable.
Tue 12 Nov 2019 3:15 AM by pollojack
AoM and PD are not linked to HP. They are tertiary resists applied after everything else including item resists. Below is PD, Assume 26% item resists, 1000 HP, 10% ABS buff, 100 dmg attack.

AoM 1 2% Tert. 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.02) 65 dmg 100 dmg; 90 dmg after 10% abs; 66 after 26% resist; 65 dmg after. 16 dmg turns
AoM 2 3% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.03) 64 dmg 16 dmg turns
AoM 3 5% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.04) 63 dmg 16 dmg turns
Aom 4 7% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.07) 61 dmg 17 dmg turns
AoM 5 10% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.10) 59 dmg 17 dmg turns
AoM 6 12% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.12) 58 dmg 18 dmg turns
AoM 7 15% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.15) 56 dmg 18 dmg turns
AoM 8 17% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.17) 55 dmg 19 dmg turns
AoM 9 20% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.17) 53 dmg 19 dmg turns

For the low low cost of, 35 RA points you can mitigate 12 dmg per swing. An objectively shit choice as you can get AoM for a flat 30% boost to dmg or MoP for a 49% crit rate.
Tue 12 Nov 2019 5:08 AM by Kampfar
Great changes. Especially that you can passive lvl your alts by rvr with your main.
Not sure about the procs change, but will see.

To all the ppl cryin about XP being hard now: Go to uthgard and level one char to 50 with template and tell me in 6 months again how terrible it is here...
Tue 12 Nov 2019 6:07 AM by Slash
pollojack wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 3:15 AM
AoM and PD are not linked to HP. They are tertiary resists applied after everything else including item resists. Below is PD, Assume 26% item resists, 1000 HP, 10% ABS buff, 100 dmg attack.

AoM 1 2% Tert. 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.02) 65 dmg 100 dmg; 90 dmg after 10% abs; 66 after 26% resist; 65 dmg after. 16 dmg turns
AoM 2 3% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.03) 64 dmg 16 dmg turns
AoM 3 5% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.04) 63 dmg 16 dmg turns
Aom 4 7% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.07) 61 dmg 17 dmg turns
AoM 5 10% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.10) 59 dmg 17 dmg turns
AoM 6 12% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.12) 58 dmg 18 dmg turns
AoM 7 15% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.15) 56 dmg 18 dmg turns
AoM 8 17% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.17) 55 dmg 19 dmg turns
AoM 9 20% 100*(1-.1)*(1-.26)*(1-0.17) 53 dmg 19 dmg turns

For the low low cost of, 35 RA points you can mitigate 12 dmg per swing. An objectively shit choice as you can get AoM for a flat 30% boost to dmg or MoP for a 49% crit rate.

I only read AOM as a boost of dmg (!) and 49% (!) crit rate before making my opinion on this post.

Aom and PD ARE linked to hp in any sort, since 200 flat damage on 2k are 10% and 200 flat damage on 2.6k are 7.7%. Aftter primary secundary or tertiary resists. That's just pure logic.
But thanks.
Tue 12 Nov 2019 8:04 AM by Chaskha
Kampfar wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 5:08 AM
Great changes. Especially that you can passive lvl your alts by rvr with your main.
Not sure about the procs change, but will see.

To all the ppl cryin about XP being hard now: Go to uthgard and level one char to 50 with template and tell me in 6 months again how terrible it is here...

You are correct in your comparison but consider this: for a year, you were able to make 100 cakes a day while your neighbour could only do 10. Now, because something was changed in the oven by the repair guy, something he thought would be great but you did not ask for, you can only bake 50 cakes.
You still go 5x faster than your neighbour but you also go 2 times slower than before and it feels painful. Soon enough you'll become angry about the repair guy even if you remember he meant well.

For the task token, it's very nice and may become a good money sink for the richest of us.

TLDR; We play Phoenix, don't care about Uthgard or Live. This change is debattable.
Tue 12 Nov 2019 9:21 AM by Taniquetil
gromet12 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 11:07 AM
Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 9:35 PM
The biggest issue the server has currently is that coastguarding is a rewarded playstyle. leading to roaming being so choked to certain areas that it just ends up in a cluster**** every time peoples timers come up.

It was a problem before but now with the increased health pools, all that is really happening is that a fight is able to last longer and then more likely be ruined/leeched/ganked/zerged (pick your favourite). So has just made the problem worse.

Normally a big fan of the experiments and trials, this ones a definite no in its current state, the thought to balance out the caster meta, great, the end result, not tthere yet.

On top of this, ann incentive to roam/leave keeps is needed to get smallmans/solos/groups roaming instead of coastguarding. I realise not ALL groups do it, but damned if it isnt the vast majority.

something like a foraging task or zone control/zone bonus/malus to take people to different areas, or reward 'controlled exploration' lets call it.

Wouldn’t coastguarding be considered the same as dock supplymaster turn-in camping?

Yup, that too, but when the choice is between Bled/Beno/DC bridge or dock and very little else, it indicates the problem. Enemy docks less so as theres less of an easy fallback to 50+ allies and keep guards.

Of course 8mans are more likely to roam elsewhere and occasionally visit the feeding grounds to clean up the area and send everyone back to the keep walls.

Would be the equivalent of only fighting within 1500 unit proximity of APK/MPK in Old Frontiers and never leaving the guards aggro zone, the fact that that style is made at all profitable/rewarding feels like it makes the game less enjoyable for everyone.

  • Fight locations are so limited and close to "safe houses" that clean fights only tend to happen in those areas, meaning kills need to be quick in order to escape.
  • Hp increase - lengthens fight durations
  • Zerging/Adding/Noncleanfights are basically facilitated by default due to the increased TTK and lack of incentivised roaming + miniscule realistic playing area created by the task system in its current state.
Tue 12 Nov 2019 9:52 AM by Valaraukar
How about the changes in HoH? As usual... you gave to people the possibility to farm tons of feathers, rogs, money and so on and then, after a few months, you nerf it so the ones who could not farm until now are screwed. If you make changes please make them soon, do not wait for months because it is frustrating to see other people do something and then suddenly you are no longer able to do the same, after spending time to prepare for your "turn" (exping a new char, make it usable with RA and temp...)
It is not fair, and you've done this several times. Stop it, please.
Tue 12 Nov 2019 10:12 AM by Sepplord
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 9:52 AM
How about the changes in HoH? As usual... you gave to people the possibility to farm tons of feathers, rogs, money and so on and then, after a few months, you nerf it so the ones who could not farm until now are screwed. If you make changes please make them soon, do not wait for months because it is frustrating to see other people do something and then suddenly you are no longer able to do the same, after spending time to prepare for your "turn" (exping a new char, make it usable with RA and temp...)
It is not fair, and you've done this several times. Stop it, please.

while i fully agree, it's off-topic in this thread.
This thread already has lots of different topics being discussed at the same time
Tue 12 Nov 2019 10:50 AM by Valaraukar
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 10:12 AM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 9:52 AM
How about the changes in HoH? As usual... you gave to people the possibility to farm tons of feathers, rogs, money and so on and then, after a few months, you nerf it so the ones who could not farm until now are screwed. If you make changes please make them soon, do not wait for months because it is frustrating to see other people do something and then suddenly you are no longer able to do the same, after spending time to prepare for your "turn" (exping a new char, make it usable with RA and temp...)
It is not fair, and you've done this several times. Stop it, please.

while i fully agree, it's off-topic in this thread.
This thread already has lots of different topics being discussed at the same time

Yeah I know but since it is a topic about changes in Nov 2019 and this is definetly a major change occurred in Nov 2019... I believe that it is not off topic. The issue is that there has been too many changes in Nov 2019
Tue 12 Nov 2019 12:33 PM by Killaloth
First impressions.

HP increase: fights now last longer and as a result we had more fun. The grp with better cc and positioning still wins but overall a longer fight provides more fun. Now the target lasts a whopping 1.5 second more to survive a caster train but if the insta is there at least it can be used. I feel that the role of a peeler is more important now when fighing hybrind VS hybrid grps.

On Uthgard or classic casters were draining their mana bar quickly, the mana consumption is much lower here. Check some old youtube videos and you'll notice a big difference. Less damage overall > longer fights > more fun.

Solo roaming: good stealthers still get good fights vs visible tanks. Fully solo speccd visible chars were not beatable before anyway but a hp increase to light and full tanks should encourage more grp speccd visibles to roam solo. On the other hand tanks that spec aom5 subtract points to damage ras, weakening themselves to sneaks.

Weapon selection: some ppl might want to choose their weapon not to be resistant to the damage type they use as now armor table is still 10% resistant to X but 5% vulnerable to Y. Not a huge change, just wait a few days to see what happens with procs before making any change perhaps.

Overall happy, Mid tank grps might have benefitted the most but it's hard to make 100% balanced improvements.
Tue 12 Nov 2019 1:06 PM by bigne88
Hp increase? Seems Ok. Fight last longer indeed and Tank setups are back in town.

For mob damage increase: the charmed pet of menta and mincer and sorc does have this scale as well?

What I don't like is the galla/TG heal proc thing.
What we gotta do? Farm again thousends of ds/hoh and redo all the templates? Meh. I actively play in 8v8 4 characters. Thats a shit ton of damn feathers.

Exping changes sounds intersting, but friends are lamenting slower expimg overall. I guess we gotta adapt and proceed with exp items farming.
Tue 12 Nov 2019 5:32 PM by vilcleft
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 9:18 PM
vilcleft wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Nov 2019 8:28 PM
[...]

Could you elaborate on the task completion Tokens?
You mention that turning in such a token gives you XP AND counts for the token-turn-in-task?

Are you Sure? When i tried it i thought i only got XP for completion of the task (aka the one following fibonaci) and not for each individual token. But i was pretty tried and distracted.


Didnt play sunday and didnt xp on anything monday so only went back and retested today. You are correct, task tokens now only give xp from completion of the token hand in task, which felt different from when I was testing this on Saturday, but since this is not the case anymore, I feel the need to apologise in case my error misled anyone.

This does add to the feeling that its a bigger xp nerf to the experience of actually doing the levelling as the most efficient way of doing tasks is excessively tedious if you want to make a profit on your xping time compared to previous.

They are still stored xp items though, but on a degrading curve of hand ins each day which would be tedious to follow and massively slower in terms of real life time to get anywhere.

Wyst
Tue 12 Nov 2019 6:20 PM by Forlornhope
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 1:06 PM
Hp increase? Seems Ok. Fight last longer indeed and Tank setups are back in town.

For mob damage increase: the charmed pet of menta and mincer and sorc does have this scale as well?

What I don't like is the galla/TG heal proc thing.
What we gotta do? Farm again thousends of ds/hoh and redo all the templates? Meh. I actively play in 8v8 4 characters. Thats a shit ton of damn feathers.

Exping changes sounds intersting, but friends are lamenting slower expimg overall. I guess we gotta adapt and proceed with exp items farming.

The pets do not scale. as far as I have been able to tell. It's just certain things like Keep captains and whatnot. While you will need to farm feathers (if and when they add those changes) to keep up with the proc meta you will NOT have to retemplate. They will add a npc that will allow you to take the procs off of your gear as well, like your crafted pieces. Then you can put the new procs on.
Tue 12 Nov 2019 10:35 PM by bigne88
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 6:20 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 1:06 PM
Hp increase? Seems Ok. Fight last longer indeed and Tank setups are back in town.

For mob damage increase: the charmed pet of menta and mincer and sorc does have this scale as well?

What I don't like is the galla/TG heal proc thing.
What we gotta do? Farm again thousends of ds/hoh and redo all the templates? Meh. I actively play in 8v8 4 characters. Thats a shit ton of damn feathers.

Exping changes sounds intersting, but friends are lamenting slower expimg overall. I guess we gotta adapt and proceed with exp items farming.

The pets do not scale. as far as I have been able to tell. It's just certain things like Keep captains and whatnot. While you will need to farm feathers (if and when they add those changes) to keep up with the proc meta you will NOT have to retemplate. They will add a npc that will allow you to take the procs off of your gear as well, like your crafted pieces. Then you can put the new procs on.

Yea right, no need to reTP.
Tough wich is the use of this? I dont get it. Do we need it? More hp, bigger heal proc. Than what? Increase weapon damage?
Tue 12 Nov 2019 10:48 PM by Forlornhope
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 10:35 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 6:20 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 1:06 PM
Hp increase? Seems Ok. Fight last longer indeed and Tank setups are back in town.

For mob damage increase: the charmed pet of menta and mincer and sorc does have this scale as well?

What I don't like is the galla/TG heal proc thing.
What we gotta do? Farm again thousends of ds/hoh and redo all the templates? Meh. I actively play in 8v8 4 characters. Thats a shit ton of damn feathers.

Exping changes sounds intersting, but friends are lamenting slower expimg overall. I guess we gotta adapt and proceed with exp items farming.

The pets do not scale. as far as I have been able to tell. It's just certain things like Keep captains and whatnot. While you will need to farm feathers (if and when they add those changes) to keep up with the proc meta you will NOT have to retemplate. They will add a npc that will allow you to take the procs off of your gear as well, like your crafted pieces. Then you can put the new procs on.

Yea right, no need to reTP.
Tough wich is the use of this? I dont get it. Do we need it? More hp, bigger heal proc. Than what? Increase weapon damage?

well, they technically reduced melee damage. But yeah I don't think it's really necessary and other than being more customizable and not being limited to certain procs being on certain weapon types they're trying to let people use them on whatever. I do think the galla chest heal procs should be exempt and not allowed to be taken off and then put on to something else. But in terms of hib (my current realm) I don't see too much problem with being able to take the str/con debuff which is a pierce exclusive and being able to put it onto a crafted blade.
Wed 13 Nov 2019 12:39 AM by alexino2
Completion task is absurd !

First, game is now more complicated (soil, branch, eggs, item, claws, bounty, etc..) After 5 months, i didn't even know we had bounty !!!! and what they were for, because no one talk about it in chat.

Then within a month, 10x completion will be worth less than 50g on market, then everyone will brb each day in front of trainer to level up their toon !

Why Phoenix can't be simplest :
- 300% bonus group of same level (-300% down when Power leveling someone)
- Item task for xp (nerf like Friday patch but with the same drop rate before patch)
- Feathers to buy what bounty or claws does

Moreover, no one care about the amount of soil given by low level in pot for realm points, no one care about where we kill the mob.

I'm so tired of having my inventory full of garbage and that i have to say to group : "sorry i have to go sell because i'm poor and i have hundred of garbage that phoenix made up".

And that's it !
Wed 13 Nov 2019 8:39 AM by Xheno
Last night I made some level 47 items with my animist. After about 70 items, the monsters have not dropped any more. Is it a bug or is it wanted? Could you kindly implement stacking over 10 items, like for tinder?
Wed 13 Nov 2019 2:31 PM by depth
It's not too late to scrap the proc swap idea that literally no one is asking for.
Wed 13 Nov 2019 6:04 PM by Leichensanni
Impressions


- More HP, is good coz now you can heal better. Compared to other server on Phönix, people's hp bar gone down to fast in average. It improved now, people can still die instant vs a couple caster. But in General it feels better atm with more HP. I like it.
- PvE Changes, not testet.
- BP/Profession realm share. awsome

- The proc thing, i look forward to check it. even if i dont see it as nessasary. make life leech effect craftable eazy, done.

- especialy my caster people, getting out of power early in the fight now. Big difference to before. Dont know how we deal with that the long term.

Thoughts

- fix tank slam on 300 range
- fix ''cc imune'' Minstrel
- fix reaver meele backstyle range (much to high)
- fix kabba pet much to fast
- charmed pets, some Templer, the big red wolf. Rupting me during Moc, wtf
(@albs sorry
- give us 1 more Backpack, coz i cant carry soil, branch, snow, eggs, feathers, claws, task token, etc..
,since i want to have some of this Siege Weapon Dmg Increasing Potion with me


Peace!
Wed 13 Nov 2019 9:51 PM by Raithax
Kept playing since the patch last friday. The fun I used to have here has taken a huge dive.

The server is far along enough that it's pretty hard for anyone new to catch up so i'm not sure why more barriers are put in place. Once the xp is fixed maybe I'll give it a go again, as it stands it's just too tedious to kill 80 mobs for 10 task items only to get less than half the xp we used to get.

o/
Wed 13 Nov 2019 10:20 PM by pollojack
depth wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Nov 2019 2:31 PM
It's not too late to scrap the proc swap idea that literally no one is asking for.

I'ma throw BT procs on my SB and be unkillable.
Thu 14 Nov 2019 1:06 AM by JaggedOne
Raithax wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Nov 2019 9:51 PM
Kept playing since the patch last friday. The fun I used to have here has taken a huge dive.

The server is far along enough that it's pretty hard for anyone new to catch up so i'm not sure why more barriers are put in place. Once the xp is fixed maybe I'll give it a go again, as it stands it's just too tedious to kill 80 mobs for 10 task items only to get less than half the xp we used to get.


How eloquently you have summed up this embarrassing disaster in so few words.

PLEASE devs PLEASE, swallow your pride and completely roll back these anti-QoL changes to the xp items system !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thu 14 Nov 2019 4:16 AM by Azuell
Slash wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Nov 2019 6:07 AM
I only read AOM as a boost of dmg (!) and 49% (!) crit rate before making my opinion on this post.

Aom and PD ARE linked to hp in any sort, since 200 flat damage on 2k are 10% and 200 flat damage on 2.6k are 7.7%. Aftter primary secundary or tertiary resists. That's just pure logic.
But thanks.

AoM and PD aren't linked to hp. Having increased hp makes them a little more useful but doesn't increase their effect. Your example doesn't even take AoM/PD into account. It only shows that x damage is now a lower percentage of someone's health than before which is obvious because their hp pool increased but has nothing to do with AoM/PD.

I am a little worried about power consumption but it really shouldn't be a problem in a 1v1. Using your example, if you're doing 200 dmg per cast and their hp went up 600, that is only 3 extra casts to kill them now. That shouldn't run you out of power and you have power pot and legion.

What is linked to hp is IP and moose. Heroes benefit more than anyone from the hp boost and will definitely drain mass power if they blow both these abilities.
Thu 14 Nov 2019 4:22 AM by Azuell
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Nov 2019 7:47 AM
It´s more than an extra 500-600 hp. Heals (IP, charge, pot) make it twice to 3x the amount. +1x for your Hero´s moose. So we´re looking at power /uses vs. heal /uses.


Legion charge and heal pots don't factor into this as they are a flat hp heal not a percentage like IP and moose.
Fri 15 Nov 2019 9:34 AM by Neverender87
JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Nov 2019 1:06 AM
Raithax wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Nov 2019 9:51 PM
Kept playing since the patch last friday. The fun I used to have here has taken a huge dive.

The server is far along enough that it's pretty hard for anyone new to catch up so i'm not sure why more barriers are put in place. Once the xp is fixed maybe I'll give it a go again, as it stands it's just too tedious to kill 80 mobs for 10 task items only to get less than half the xp we used to get.


How eloquently you have summed up this embarrassing disaster in so few words.

PLEASE devs PLEASE, swallow your pride and completely roll back these anti-QoL changes to the xp items system !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, this is very much how I felt. Been having a lot of fun, logged on the other night and was confused by why I was levelling so slow. Tried a few different things and a group or two, but nothing changed - finally checked the patch notes...I'll check back and see if it changes, but at the moment I don't think I can muster the time to get to 50.
Fri 15 Nov 2019 2:07 PM by Azrael
I am really sorry for you guys.
As I am already stated I think this xp adjustment was not necessery (especially after this long time) and nobody wants or needs it, but your "arguments" are really hilarious.
"I had so much fun before". Yeah I know, all things in life are subjective but for me lvling is fun if I have a great grp and we rockin this spot. Respawn is too slow nobody is dying and you are always busy because of this permant pulls you do not even recognize how fast your lvls are coming in. And you wanna tell me you had really fun to kill 20 mobs solo in a monotonous being brain afk hitting same buttons all the time, turn in this shit and move on to the next stop? really? If you want to chill and want relax after a exhausting day it's cool to just hit some mobs with your nuke/weapon but for "fun" ? Do not believe you all, perhaps one or two person really enjoyed this but for the majority who claims this, nah still not believe you.

edit: Just to clarify, I think it is normal that if you have a current lvl of something in your life no matter which aspect (in this case a specific xp progression) and suddenly somebody takes it away from you or lowers it it is normal that you think it sucks and it is really unfair and I think it is also ok to express this feeling but just be honest as far as possible and do not came up with made up statements like ahhh i knew so many friends who would play this if you could xp faster, this monton grinding was sooo fun before. For me it is really exhausting to read bs like that.
Fri 15 Nov 2019 2:36 PM by Forlornhope
Can we get an update on the proc testing, or if you're just scrapping it?
Fri 15 Nov 2019 5:47 PM by Voso
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Nov 2019 11:22 AM
A couple upcoming changes affecting xp, qol and some the rvr balance. There will primarily be 2 roll outs each may or may not be spread over a couple days, one with (for the most part) non controversial changes and a slightly later one where the changes are expected to receive negative feedback and we just want to give a chance to see valuable feedback to see if we missed something and not just pointless whining. Depending on feedback some of these may or may not become subject of a vote later on.

Part 1, eta over the next 1 - 3 days, items that receive unexpected feedback may or may not be delayed slightly:


1) Bounty points will be shared across all your characters per realm per account, like money

2)Professions will be shared across all your characters per realm per account, for existing characters the highest value per profession will be used. (If one of your current chars has 1200 alchemy and the other 1100 you would end up with 1200).
3)The social xp bonus will be reworked
- the unique class constraint will be removed
- the given % bonus will be adjusted to be the inverse of their natural desirability for groups as seen so far
-- certain classes will be reduced to 1% bonus (pbae caster)
-- many classes will be reduced to 3% (e. g. well represented support, most remaining caster)
-- some classes will be increased to 6% (some melees, warden)
-- a few classes will be increased to 9% (some melees)

4) Increased customizability for procs
Existing procs will become replaceable, this will be for player crafted items only at first and may or may not be opened up for all items later on. At the same time we will also introduce some npc that will take the most expensive craftable proc together with any item that has a proc on it (not a charge) and in return you will receive the proc that this item had on it to apply it to any of your weapons or armor, please note that until (if ever) we make procs on non crafted items replaceable you will only be able to apply this proc to crafted armor / weapons.
This proc that you receive will become an offensive proc when applied to weapons, a reactive proc when applied to armor and proc for both cases when applied to a shield. Please note that both the most expensive craftable proc as well as the item you give to this npc will be destroyed.
Example:
You give the craftable epic heal proc as well as some rog weapon with a 95 delve lifedrain proc to the npc, these items are now destroyed but in return you receive a proc item with the 95 delve lifedrain proc that you can freely apply to one of your weapons or armor pieces. The same would also work for the epic dungeon chests to receive the higher heal proc.

5) Task XP Rework
- collection task turn in limitations will be removed
- drop rate for collection task items will be adjusted
- 2 new location dependent kill tasks will be added: kill mobs in classic overworld zones, kill mobs in si overworld zones
- completing a task will result in receiving a new item that can be traded as well as turned in at your trainer, turning in these items represents another task where the turn in requirements per task level follow the fibonacci sequence (1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34....), that means everyone will without any effort at all complete the first couple levels while making higher levels of this task pretty much unattainable giving a reason to either save or sell remaining tokens or to use them with other characters. Completing this new turn in task will itself not provide a task completion token.
- the xp reward for task completions (kill x animals etc., rvr tasks) will be changed to your level * the xp you would receive for a mob of your level, this is an increase up to level 19 and an increasing reduction from there on, at level 49 this would be a reduction to 25% of the current value. Please note that collection task item turn in is tied to the same reward system but instead of using your current level these turn ins will always use the minimum level of the item.
- gold reward will be adjusted in two ways, 1) in part due to the now more available tasks the reward itself will be lowered in general and 2) the reward will become static, using the average mob value times some multiplier and not the current random 75% - 125% mob value times some multiplier.

6) Body Type XP Rework
Initially the plan / hope was to have a dynamic system that encourages people to seek out new spots and at the beginning it certainly worked well, however, due to how the dynamic bonus is determined there isn't really ever a change. To get back to the original intention we're changing it to be determined daily (will survive restarts as it will depend on the date), one body type will receive 50% bonus another 75%, another 150% and finally another 200%.

7) Dense spawn areas will see some of their mobs receive spells that should not affect normal group play much, this only applies to classic and si zones
Example spells: a low damage instant cast snare nuke with a 10 second cool down
This will only affect the beach in albion and the red caps in moderna in midgard for now, more spots may or may not be changed or this might be rolled back depending on what happens in game.

Part 2


1) For player characters the HP per con modifier will be increased as if characters had a certain champion level, this assumed champion level will be the same for all classes except full tanks (arms, hero, warrior), there it will be a couple champion levels higher.

2) NPCs will receive a damage increase via an increase to their damage table, this will not affect certain pets that had manual adjustments (e.g. theurgist earth pets, hunter pet), this increase will not affect the defense penetration. As the damage table represents a multiplicator this will also increase the absolute damage change caused by strength buffs / debuffs. The expected damage of this damage table increase will be between 10 and 30%, depending on the mob.

3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.

Devs. Please stop ignoring the community and put these changes to a vote or continue on your destructive path to decrease the population of the server until it dies....

The only good things you have done for everyone:
1.Share bounty points and professions across all characters
2. Give more social XP for certain classes

Everything else in the patch is complete garbage and should be put to a vote.

Please focus on increasing the population:
Create RVR events that grant random dungeon credit for boring PVE instances (Galla,etc)
Add a realm loyalty bonus xp or rp for logging in the same realm each day
Add rare skin tokens for weapons/armor/etc (not available in TNN currently) for participating in RVR events
Shrink NF and remove the top square from each realm (beno, crauch, bled) should all be placed on an island which connects the 3 realms and reduces the map size
Grant speed to everyone via item or mount. This would greatly increase RVR participation since most people don't roam around in small groups without speed 6.
Fri 15 Nov 2019 6:20 PM by Azrael
Voso wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Nov 2019 5:47 PM
Grant speed to everyone via item or mount.

<insert vomit smiley>

edit:fortunately you named examples by yourself why it could be bad to let the playerbase vote.
Fri 15 Nov 2019 6:43 PM by Voso
Azrael wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Nov 2019 6:20 PM
Voso wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Nov 2019 5:47 PM
Grant speed to everyone via item or mount.

<insert vomit smiley>

edit:fortunately you named examples by yourself why it could be bad to let the playerbase vote.

Ha. I didn't say my thoughts were for everyone. Let the players vote then you find out what the majority of people want instead of assuming you know what the player-base wants.
Fri 15 Nov 2019 11:10 PM by Azrael
Voso wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Nov 2019 6:43 PM
Azrael wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Nov 2019 6:20 PM
Voso wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Nov 2019 5:47 PM
Grant speed to everyone via item or mount.

<insert vomit smiley>

edit:fortunately you named examples by yourself why it could be bad to let the playerbase vote.

Ha. I didn't say my thoughts were for everyone. Let the players vote then you find out what the majority of people want instead of assuming you know what the player-base wants.

I did not say that. I only know it is probably bs whats majority want cause they wanted for NF. If you want live settings stay on live. So voting ist bad.
Sat 16 Nov 2019 1:02 AM by easytoremember
Voso wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Nov 2019 6:43 PM
Ha. I didn't say my thoughts were for everyone. Let the players vote then you find out what the majority of people want instead of assuming you know what the player-base wants.
Going off the votes up to now the majority always chooses the shittiest option and I'd be happier just letting dev and/or gm decide where things go instead
Ironically a bunch of the same individuals who voted for what gets implemented are the ones that end up leaving first

Put another way what sounds good doesn't always play good and what's fun over a week isn't always fun over month(s)
Sat 16 Nov 2019 2:16 AM by Forlornhope
Please focus on increasing the population:
Create RVR events that grant random dungeon credit for boring PVE instances (Galla,etc)
Add a realm loyalty bonus xp or rp for logging in the same realm each day
Add rare skin tokens for weapons/armor/etc (not available in TNN currently) for participating in RVR events
Shrink NF and remove the top square from each realm (beno, crauch, bled) should all be placed on an island which connects the 3 realms and reduces the map size
Grant speed to everyone via item or mount. This would greatly increase RVR participation since most people don't roam around in small groups without speed 6.
[/quote]

I'd be totally down for a level 50 bg type map, but I am not sure removing beno/bled/crauch and that are woild be possible. RvR events are something they had during the beginning of the server and I was fairly disappointed when they stopped putting them out. Honestly though, the vast majority of NF is the same size of OF. If you don't count irish sea, and EV already is basically a level 50 smaller type zone that connects all three zones and no one uses it. So not really sure if making a huge change and adding something that's technically already there would solve anything. The only thing that could would be a literal battleground instance.
Sat 16 Nov 2019 2:21 AM by Riac
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Nov 2019 2:16 AM
Please focus on increasing the population:
Create RVR events that grant random dungeon credit for boring PVE instances (Galla,etc)
Add a realm loyalty bonus xp or rp for logging in the same realm each day
Add rare skin tokens for weapons/armor/etc (not available in TNN currently) for participating in RVR events
Shrink NF and remove the top square from each realm (beno, crauch, bled) should all be placed on an island which connects the 3 realms and reduces the map size
Grant speed to everyone via item or mount. This would greatly increase RVR participation since most people don't roam around in small groups without speed 6.

I'd be totally down for a level 50 bg type map, but I am not sure removing beno/bled/crauch and that are woild be possible. RvR events are something they had during the beginning of the server and I was fairly disappointed when they stopped putting them out. Honestly though, the vast majority of NF is the same size of OF. If you don't count irish sea, and EV already is basically a level 50 smaller type zone that connects all three zones and no one uses it. So not really sure if making a huge change and adding something that's technically already there would solve anything. The only thing that could would be a literal battleground instance.
[/quote]

why dont the zergs and 8mans use ev? mostve the task zone to ev so all the soloers can have some breathing room imo.
Sat 16 Nov 2019 4:01 AM by Forlornhope
why dont the zergs and 8mans use ev? mostve the task zone to ev so all the soloers can have some breathing room imo.
[/quote]

well to be honest a lot of the point of the zerg is to take the towers, so if anything the 8mans should go to EV. Most of the zergs actively avoid hitting each other because they can still make comparable rps/hr just taking the keeps and towers. Also, even if the task zone moves to EV it will still not give soloers the room they really want, 8mans and small mans are still going to roll them over and over because they want free rps. Even the ones in here preaching their 8v8 holy gospel hump keeps and towers picking off solos and 4mans.
Sun 17 Nov 2019 8:38 AM by Ele
I want to add some feedback to the introduced changes, now regarding the xp gain.
We started on hib a few days ago because we were in need of a change. We mostly xp'ed in a trio of bard, mana eld and bm, occasionaly inviting druids or another melee to help with taunting, especially in the lower levels. We went from 1 to now 44-45 in about 27 hours playtime (including task-leeching/coastguarding to get some rps fpr mcl, edit: and some crafting too for pots/salvage/spellcrafting) by farming mobs that drop xp items who have a high xp bonus (150/200%). The droprate of the xp loots was evenly split (turned in 19/19/20 glimmering gems e.g.) and on occasion we jumped 3 levels during a "turn-in-session" (xp loot, tokens up to 19, branches/snow/soil). Leveling seems totally fine to me.
Mon 18 Nov 2019 4:04 PM by jwalker
Not a big fan of the proc idea.

For sure 180hp procs (actually heal for 225) should not be in game. But I think all realms have a 130 (heals for around 155) sounds too good. Further, it actually turns me off to ever start a new toon especially changing the realm. We just introduce an additional "gear" barrier, imo.

Further, there are some really unique and rare drops, that should not be introduced as the new standard like
"bubble/Pbt Proc" (dropped in DF). I'm sure there are some more, that I'm just not aware of.

I'd be fine of certain procs can be crafted and the ingredient can be salvaged from items. But make sure that these are all the same like
energy/heat dot proc (18%)
life tap proc 65 value 100% leech (18%)
life tap proc 95 value 60% leech (15%)
damage add value 11 (18%)
haste, kon/str. dex qui (18%)

that should cover the major procs from drop items and life tap random drops.
Wed 20 Nov 2019 6:03 PM by Killaloth
Impressions after a few days.

Overall smallman fights last more, 8vs8 also a bit more. Good caster grps are still good caster grps and a debuffed target still drops quite easily, no surprise.

More hib grps are trying the almighty tank setup with no celerity but a lot of utility :> Bard 2Druids Warden VW Champ Hero BM is fun to play also vs mid tank grps and gives long fun fights.

Overall happy.

I also don't think giving high abla or heal procs on all weapons/armor pieces makes much sense. I swing at cap speed and even with mop9 when the torso heal procs I'm basically doing no damage. It would be a pain for a dual wielder to drop a target. Also, stealther fights would last so long that they would be added long before they finish

I think we've found a nice lil balance here.
Wed 20 Nov 2019 6:59 PM by Ulio ah ah
@Killaloth

Scusa sono una pippa in inglese, non ho capito ma li mettono o no questi cambiamenti dei proc?

Ciao
Thu 21 Nov 2019 8:12 PM by valicyn
Are there any thoughts of changing the xp system back? This change has not helped with grouping. Its the same classes getting grouped and same classes not getting grouped since before this terrible nerf. Atleast with the way it was so classes like assassins or VW etc were able to xp decently. Now unless you have a farm class like Animist or necro forget about lvling.
Thu 21 Nov 2019 11:13 PM by gotwqqd
valicyn wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Nov 2019 8:12 PM
Are there any thoughts of changing the xp system back? This change has not helped with grouping. Its the same classes getting grouped and same classes not getting grouped since before this terrible nerf. Atleast with the way it was so classes like assassins or VW etc were able to xp decently. Now unless you have a farm class like Animist or necro forget about lvling.

Three days straight three different classes three different levels
Constant spamming unable to get a group
And the drop rates and xp now are horrible

And I even see bomb classes spamming from groups with no invite...my level 26 was also one of them

Maybe the objective was to make wanting to level so marginally attractive that it would force those with 50’s into the frontiers
Tue 26 Nov 2019 3:17 AM by Voso
1) For player characters the HP per con modifier will be increased as if characters had a certain champion level, this assumed champion level will be the same for all classes except full tanks (arms, hero, warrior), there it will be a couple champion levels higher.


3) Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability.

These are some of the worst changes you have made for the server. Every group doesn't run around with a debuff to knock down targets. How about you address the problem instead of making it worse. I have lost more friends and I haven't wanted to switch back to the tank meta again. GG on terrible QOL changes. Let the tanks on here praise you and the casters curse you, but you tend to not address the problems directly which is what I find to be the most frustrating aspect of this server.
Tue 26 Nov 2019 7:18 PM by falcon
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Nov 2019 11:13 PM
..
And the drop rates and xp now are horrible
..

Maybe if u don't spend 99% of your time searching a group and hit few mob instead, u will have 3 levels 50 at this time :p

Xp faster than ever, its a big up, no need to left a spot when u have 10 xp items (fall too fast about 1 a minute even without aoe I was surprised !?)

I prepare a guide to up solo 35 in 6 hours without buying ANY xp item (and 50 in 6h05 if u are rich or 1 week rvr if u are poor :p )
you can divide this time by 3 if you buy half xp item needed, the xp in game is now too fast, hope a nerf soon or back to old system to spent few weeks to up 25-35 :p
Wed 27 Nov 2019 5:28 AM by gotwqqd
falcon wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Nov 2019 7:18 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Nov 2019 11:13 PM
..
And the drop rates and xp now are horrible
..

Maybe if u don't spend 99% of your time searching a group and hit few mob instead, u will have 3 levels 50 at this time :p

Xp faster than ever, its a big up, no need to left a spot when u have 10 xp items (fall too fast about 1 a minute even without aoe I was surprised !?)

I prepare a guide to up solo 35 in 6 hours without buying ANY xp item (and 50 in 6h05 if u are rich or 1 week rvr if u are poor :p )
you can divide this time by 3 if you buy half xp item needed, the xp in game is now too fast, hope a nerf soon or back to old system to spent few weeks to up 25-35 :p
Your clueless
First you think I’m not xping while I’m asking for groups?
I leveled 25 classes to 50 before the change....this is nowhere near as fast now.

It’s pretty obvious they intentionally slowed down leveling and are trying to have more group xping.... but it’s not working.
Wed 27 Nov 2019 10:13 AM by falcon
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Nov 2019 5:28 AM
It’s pretty obvious they intentionally slowed down leveling and are trying to have more group xping.... but it’s not working.

Where u read that ? rumors ? testing ? servernews ? "20.11 we intentionally slowed down leveling and are trying to have more group xping"

Just tested 1-35, its a big UP, xp 35-50 was already a joke and removed for many months (added tokens to be now a BIG joke)
and xp 20-35 is now replaced by 2 xp item, what do u want more instant 20 ? (already exist last month but removed with siege weapon nerf ^^)

The only answer I read here is :
I don't want to pay 3-6P to up 25-35 (various explanation, I'm poor or I'm lazy to have a farm class level 19)

(double feather this week = 30000 feathers = 8P twice a day = 112P a week, enough to have 15 levels 50 at end of week :p (but doing 1 time enough for 1 level 50 if u are lazy :p) and don't tell me "I'm 28 i can't kill apo !" need only 1 hit/mob to have feather, a stick enough if too much resist ^^)
Wed 27 Nov 2019 11:53 AM by Insanity84
falcon wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Nov 2019 10:13 AM
The only answer I read here is :
I don't want to pay 3-6P to up 25-35 (various explanation, I'm poor or I'm lazy to have a farm class level 19)

(double feather this week = 30000 feathers = 8P twice a day = 112P a week, enough to have 15 levels 50 at end of week :p (but doing 1 time enough for 1 level 50 if u are lazy :p) and don't tell me "I'm 28 i can't kill apo !" need only 1 hit/mob to have feather, a stick enough if too much resist ^^)
So your solution is to have a level 50 char and farm feathers to sell them and use the platin to buy xp items that you can transfer to your alt to level him.
Or to make a lvl 19 aoe farm class to farm xp items that you transfer to your alt to level him.
Seriosly, what about actually playing the alt instead of powerleveling with platin or your farm class?
Just playing the char is not very enjoyable anymore and that can not be intended.

Grouping can be nice, but more often its not.
Group disbands very early, setup missing a tank, or heal, or whatever is essential for success, wasting your precios time waiting or moving to spots.
There are many reasons why some people prefer to level solo, its a guaranted progression you will never get in a group of strangers.
And that progression suffered heavily with the changes.
Wed 27 Nov 2019 12:02 PM by gotwqqd
Insanity84 wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Nov 2019 11:53 AM
falcon wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Nov 2019 10:13 AM
The only answer I read here is :
I don't want to pay 3-6P to up 25-35 (various explanation, I'm poor or I'm lazy to have a farm class level 19)

(double feather this week = 30000 feathers = 8P twice a day = 112P a week, enough to have 15 levels 50 at end of week :p (but doing 1 time enough for 1 level 50 if u are lazy :p) and don't tell me "I'm 28 i can't kill apo !" need only 1 hit/mob to have feather, a stick enough if too much resist ^^)
So your solution is to have a level 50 char and farm feathers to sell them and use the platin to buy xp items that you can transfer to your alt to level him.
Or to make a lvl 19 aoe farm class to farm xp items that you transfer to your alt to level him.
Seriosly, what about actually playing the alt instead of powerleveling with platin or your farm class?
Just playing the char is not very enjoyable anymore and that can not be intended.

Grouping can be nice, but more often its not.
Group disbands very early, setup missing a tank, or heal, or whatever is essential for success, wasting your precios time waiting or moving to spots.
There are many reasons why some people prefer to level solo, its a guaranted progression you will never get in a group of strangers.
And that progression suffered heavily with the changes.
Wait for the response .....
Wed 27 Nov 2019 4:36 PM by falcon
Insanity84 wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Nov 2019 11:53 AM
falcon wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Nov 2019 10:13 AM
The only answer I read here is :
I don't want to pay 3-6P to up 25-35 (various explanation, I'm poor or I'm lazy to have a farm class level 19)

(double feather this week = 30000 feathers = 8P twice a day = 112P a week, enough to have 15 levels 50 at end of week :p (but doing 1 time enough for 1 level 50 if u are lazy :p) and don't tell me "I'm 28 i can't kill apo !" need only 1 hit/mob to have feather, a stick enough if too much resist ^^)
So your solution is to have a level 50 char and farm feathers to sell them and use the platin to buy xp items that you can transfer to your alt to level him.
Or to make a lvl 19 aoe farm class to farm xp items that you transfer to your alt to level him.
Seriosly, what about actually playing the alt instead of powerleveling with platin or your farm class?
Just playing the char is not very enjoyable anymore and that can not be intended.

Grouping can be nice, but more often its not.
Group disbands very early, setup missing a tank, or heal, or whatever is essential for success, wasting your precios time waiting or moving to spots.
There are many reasons why some people prefer to level solo, its a guaranted progression you will never get in a group of strangers.
And that progression suffered heavily with the changes.

For the beginning of DAOC a long time ago, we have 2 sorts of class : class with fast XP (aoe...) and class with slow XP never grouped (stealth...)
The answer second found to up in less century is to ask fast class to PL them (free or for money ^^)
(thats why u search pbaoe group in priority, but not enough pbaoe group for all realm 24/24, its life !)

Nobody noticed last change = PL for any of your char with only 1 account ? ^^

Now you earn 1 gold with your fast class = XP for your slow char, dropping 1 xp item for your fast class = 1/20 bubble for your slow char
Finishing a task (even in rvr !) = 1/30 bubble for your slow char, and so on...

(before change your fast class can help only slow one at 75% with 10xp item limit and no token, then u need to hit mob 1 by 1 during eternity to finish your level... now its 100%...)
If u don't like farm, just play char u like (no need to be 50, 1st BG enough ^^) and keep token/xp item for your char u want to play next and u tired to hit mob again & again without UP...

Now if u want slow class XP as fast as AOE class, its not here u have to cry, u just play the wrong game or didnt understood basic mechanic ^^
Nothing changed for 20 years, only one u don't need several accounts or many friends anymore in guild to up your Paladin, infiltrator...

(with the new system, if u are really masochiste and hate mage, and want only char unable to kill more 1 yellow a minute, even your infiltrator could PL your scout ^^ I forgot we can sell BP (and Inf are good to earn BP !) so BP = $ = XP item (for u or your scout ^^) , another possibility is to do Sidi sometimes = 10 free levels for char of your choice ^^
Wed 27 Nov 2019 5:29 PM by Voso
Population seems to be getting lower each month so maybe you should reconsider how you implement and make changes to the server... I don't think you realize that RvR is why this game is still relevant so you're forcing new players to PVE longer and get reduced RPs so why would new players want to join?

The only good things you have done for everyone:
1. Share bounty points and professions across all characters
2. Give more social XP for certain classes

Everything else you have changed lately is complete garbage and should be voted on.

Please focus on increasing the population:
Create RVR events that grant random dungeon credit for boring PVE instances (Galla,etc)
Add a realm loyalty bonus xp or rp for logging in the same realm each day
Add rare skin tokens for weapons/armor/etc (not available in TNN currently) for participating in RVR events
Shrink NF and remove the top square from each realm (beno, crauch, bled) should all be placed on an island which connects the 3 realms and reduces the map size
Grant speed to everyone via item or mount. This would greatly increase RVR participation since most people don't roam around in small groups without speed 6.
Find a way for smaller groups to be more viable as the population shrinks.
Wed 27 Nov 2019 6:30 PM by dearen75
Any news about procs costumization? I'm planning to craft a new armor set and I don't want to waste alchemy ..
Wed 27 Nov 2019 7:53 PM by Insanity84
falcon wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Nov 2019 4:36 PM
Now if u want slow class XP as fast as AOE class, its not here u have to cry, u just play the wrong game or didnt understood basic mechanic ^^
Sorry falcon, you just don't get it, really. If you mean that playing the class, and it does not matter what class, instead of powerleveling it is equal to playing the wrong game...
Thats just wrong.
Wed 27 Nov 2019 9:44 PM by falcon
Insanity84 wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Nov 2019 7:53 PM
falcon wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Nov 2019 4:36 PM
Now if u want slow class XP as fast as AOE class, its not here u have to cry, u just play the wrong game or didnt understood basic mechanic ^^
Sorry falcon, you just don't get it, really. If you mean that playing the class, and it does not matter what class, instead of powerleveling it is equal to playing the wrong game...
Thats just wrong.

I already read this argument 100% true if this game started last month, but u can trust me if I up a theurgist in few hours with PL (never played this year) I'm sure I could play it very well (played it 10 years in the past :p ) thats why I stay on alb, I play only char I know ^^

My guide to up fast in Alb folder ^^
Fri 29 Nov 2019 9:33 PM by Voso
I will keep posting on this thread because I don't think you realize what a monumental dumpster fire these recent changes are. I love this game and I have enjoyed most of the customization you have made to the game. Population seems to be getting worse so please reconsider how you implement / make changes to the server... I don't think you realize that RvR is why this game is still relevant. We should be getting new players templates, leveled, and RR faster so they can compete with those of us whom have been playing since the beginning.

The only good things you have done for everyone:
1. Share bounty points and professions across all characters
2. Give more social XP for certain classes
3. Create more diverse DS/HoH groups (more on that later)

Everything else you have changed lately is complete garbage and should be removed/voted on.
HP and armor changes have made more players shift to Midgard since they have the best tank groups. Many people have left since their characters without debuff can't drop targets. The alb groups that were easily dropping the higher RR mids aren't even playing currently so good going on screwing over the masses to not address the debuff issue.
XP item turn ins, RP task ticks, and RP item turns ins are the worst thing you have done for new players.

Recent changes to HoH/DS should be tested with groups made of new players with 0% bonus and lower RR so you can adjust how often mobs spawn/ health of bosses/ mechanics. Groups with higher RR and completions should be able to carry 4+ new players through these dungeons easily for the health of the realms. I think it is a good idea to have class restrictions which should accomplish what you wanted, but you haven't adjusted the dungeons to make them friendly for new players. These dungeons should be able to be completed within 20-30 mins so more people can complete them and get their templates completed.

Please focus on increasing the population instead of slowly burning this server to the ground.
Fri 29 Nov 2019 10:46 PM by JaggedOne
Voso, you are absolutely right in everything you say.

FYI, I am not a newcomer to DAoC, having played it since the day after it came out in 2001.

I did not think I would *ever* see a set of changes as bad as they made on live a few years later, driving players (incl. me) away in droves....Iesp. from a dedicated group of people who have worked hard to bring DAoC back to us in a playable, friendly state. It just totally boggles my mind that these folks, who spoke so eloquently and fervently about their support for QoL enhancements (and backed it up with so many excellent changes), would make such a clearly boneheaded and ANTI-QoL set of changes as these. And it even further boggles my already-boggled mind that once they received not only near-universal negative feedback, but severe and bordering on *bitter* and continuing negative feedback, that they would stubbornly cling to their decision and insist that it was a good set of changes and that solo leveling is fine.

I am at a loss as to what to do when faced with a group of PTB that refuse to see reality *or* listen to their user group.....
Sat 30 Nov 2019 12:03 AM by gruenesschaf
JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Nov 2019 10:46 PM
Voso, you are absolutely right in everything you say.

FYI, I am not a newcomer to DAoC, having played it since the day after it came out in 2001.

I did not think I would *ever* see a set of changes as bad as they made on live a few years later, driving players (incl. me) away in droves....Iesp. from a dedicated group of people who have worked hard to bring DAoC back to us in a playable, friendly state. It just totally boggles my mind that these folks, who spoke so eloquently and fervently about their support for QoL enhancements (and backed it up with so many excellent changes), would make such a clearly boneheaded and ANTI-QoL set of changes as these. And it even further boggles my already-boggled mind that once they received not only near-universal negative feedback, but severe and bordering on *bitter* and continuing negative feedback, that they would stubbornly cling to their decision and insist that it was a good set of changes and that solo leveling is fine.

I am at a loss as to what to do when faced with a group of PTB that refuse to see reality *or* listen to their user group.....

It's a shift from making solo the fastest way to level for some classes to heavily encouraging grouping with anything.

Have something that heals and otherwise fill your group with anything that runs around, anything except the pbae caster provide more direct xp bonus than they "cost" in terms of xp, literally any damage class increases the kill speed more than it costs in terms of xp.
You now can not only achieve a stupidly high kill speed with perfect pbae groups but also any melee setup + tinder.
Sat 30 Nov 2019 12:50 AM by gotwqqd
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 12:03 AM
JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Nov 2019 10:46 PM
Voso, you are absolutely right in everything you say.

FYI, I am not a newcomer to DAoC, having played it since the day after it came out in 2001.

I did not think I would *ever* see a set of changes as bad as they made on live a few years later, driving players (incl. me) away in droves....Iesp. from a dedicated group of people who have worked hard to bring DAoC back to us in a playable, friendly state. It just totally boggles my mind that these folks, who spoke so eloquently and fervently about their support for QoL enhancements (and backed it up with so many excellent changes), would make such a clearly boneheaded and ANTI-QoL set of changes as these. And it even further boggles my already-boggled mind that once they received not only near-universal negative feedback, but severe and bordering on *bitter* and continuing negative feedback, that they would stubbornly cling to their decision and insist that it was a good set of changes and that solo leveling is fine.

I am at a loss as to what to do when faced with a group of PTB that refuse to see reality *or* listen to their user group.....

It's a shift from making solo the fastest way to level for some classes to heavily encouraging grouping with anything.

Have something that heals and otherwise fill your group with anything that runs around, anything except the pbae caster provide more direct xp bonus than they "cost" in terms of xp, literally any damage class increases the kill speed more than it costs in terms of xp.
You now can not only achieve a stupidly high kill speed with perfect pbae groups but also any melee setup + tinder.
Problem is after the patch it seems like finding a group is harder than ever.

Particularly for some classes, regardless of the bonus.

From mid 30’s to 49 my cabby asked everyday throughout the play session for xp groups....not one!
Sat 30 Nov 2019 1:47 AM by Azrael
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 12:50 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 12:03 AM
JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Nov 2019 10:46 PM
Voso, you are absolutely right in everything you say.

FYI, I am not a newcomer to DAoC, having played it since the day after it came out in 2001.

I did not think I would *ever* see a set of changes as bad as they made on live a few years later, driving players (incl. me) away in droves....Iesp. from a dedicated group of people who have worked hard to bring DAoC back to us in a playable, friendly state. It just totally boggles my mind that these folks, who spoke so eloquently and fervently about their support for QoL enhancements (and backed it up with so many excellent changes), would make such a clearly boneheaded and ANTI-QoL set of changes as these. And it even further boggles my already-boggled mind that once they received not only near-universal negative feedback, but severe and bordering on *bitter* and continuing negative feedback, that they would stubbornly cling to their decision and insist that it was a good set of changes and that solo leveling is fine.

I am at a loss as to what to do when faced with a group of PTB that refuse to see reality *or* listen to their user group.....

It's a shift from making solo the fastest way to level for some classes to heavily encouraging grouping with anything.

Have something that heals and otherwise fill your group with anything that runs around, anything except the pbae caster provide more direct xp bonus than they "cost" in terms of xp, literally any damage class increases the kill speed more than it costs in terms of xp.
You now can not only achieve a stupidly high kill speed with perfect pbae groups but also any melee setup + tinder.
Problem is after the patch it seems like finding a group is harder than ever.

Particularly for some classes, regardless of the bonus.

From mid 30’s to 49 my cabby asked everyday throughout the play session for xp groups....not one!

Its seems to be easier. Ppl are more open up, got a lot of groups with my tank, there were even cabbys in it!
Sat 30 Nov 2019 1:54 AM by gotwqqd
Azrael wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 1:47 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 12:50 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 12:03 AM
It's a shift from making solo the fastest way to level for some classes to heavily encouraging grouping with anything.

Have something that heals and otherwise fill your group with anything that runs around, anything except the pbae caster provide more direct xp bonus than they "cost" in terms of xp, literally any damage class increases the kill speed more than it costs in terms of xp.
You now can not only achieve a stupidly high kill speed with perfect pbae groups but also any melee setup + tinder.
Problem is after the patch it seems like finding a group is harder than ever.

Particularly for some classes, regardless of the bonus.

From mid 30’s to 49 my cabby asked everyday throughout the play session for xp groups....not one!

Its seems to be easier. Ppl are more open up, got a lot of groups with my tank, there were even cabbys in it!
Maybe I’m on at the wrong time....
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM by JaggedOne
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 12:03 AM
It's a shift from making solo the fastest way to level for some classes to heavily encouraging grouping with anything.

Have something that heals and otherwise fill your group with anything that runs around, anything except the pbae caster provide more direct xp bonus than they "cost" in terms of xp, literally any damage class increases the kill speed more than it costs in terms of xp.
You now can not only achieve a stupidly high kill speed with perfect pbae groups but also any melee setup + tinder.


Thanks for your reply, gruensschaf.

I understand your explanation, and I agree that leveling by group, which was already quite fast, is now even more so. However, I do not understand nor do I support your efforts to make solo leveling slower. Did ya'll just have a "kumbya moment" and decide that fast solo leveling was not acceptable, or was there a moving hand that wrote "nerf solo leveling" and moved on ? It makes no sense to me - why do you feel you need to slow down/discourage solo leveling ? There exists no linkage that requires that if you speed up group leveling you must slow down solo leveling.

Here are several reasons why solo leveling is valid and should not be nerfed:

1. Some people prefer to solo...period

2. Some people *have* to solo...for example, I am caretaker for my elderly mother and rarely can commit to the responsibilities of being in a group (which is why I am levling a Scout atm) but I *can* solo, where being called away or interrupted with no warning (yes, I have died more than a few times as a result of said interruptions) is not a problem.

3. Groups are much harder to get lately as the pop has fallen, making soloing a useful and (used to be) viable option.

4. Even in the best of times, groups (a) often discriminate against some classes, (b) sometimes suck, and (c) often fall apart w/o warning. A player should have the flexibility of switching to solo as circumstances vary, w/o suffering from a slowdown.

You and your cohorts seem like nice reasonable people. PLEASE take another look at the changes you made that nerf solo leveling and realize that you have inconvenienced and angered the very people whose QoL you say you wanted to improve. PLEASE back those changes out !!!
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:10 AM by gruenesschaf
JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
1. Some people prefer to solo...period

This is the target audience for the change, if soloing is less efficient many of these people will start to group as their main argument usually revolves around bad groups being worse than soloing, that's now rather difficult.


JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
2. Some people *have* to solo...for example, I am caretaker for my elderly mother and rarely can commit to the responsibilities of being in a group (which is why I am levling a Scout atm) but I *can* solo, where being called away or interrupted with no warning (yes, I have died more than a few times as a result of said interruptions) is not a problem.

The task system is basically built for people that cannot spend a lot of time per session, if you play around 2h / day and aren't a solo ae dot class you won't really be affected by the xp change as the new tokens basically make up the loss.


JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
3. Groups are much harder to get lately as the pop has fallen, making soloing a useful and (used to be) viable option.

Which is another reason why grouping was encouraged even more.


JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
4. Even in the best of times, groups (a) often discriminate against some classes, (b) sometimes suck, and (c) often fall apart w/o warning. A player should have the flexibility of switching to solo as circumstances vary, w/o suffering from a slowdown.

If soloing is pretty much the same as grouping there is practically no point in grouping for non supporter classes.



I don't think you can reasonably argue that there is anything at all wrong with an mmo encouraging grouping more than soloing and it's not like we made soloing impossible or worse than other servers or even worse than it was in january when we launched given the ~200% realm task bonus many mob types now have.
Sat 30 Nov 2019 4:01 AM by gotwqqd
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:10 AM
JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
1. Some people prefer to solo...period

This is the target audience for the change, if soloing is less efficient many of these people will start to group as their main argument usually revolves around bad groups being worse than soloing, that's now rather difficult.


JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
2. Some people *have* to solo...for example, I am caretaker for my elderly mother and rarely can commit to the responsibilities of being in a group (which is why I am levling a Scout atm) but I *can* solo, where being called away or interrupted with no warning (yes, I have died more than a few times as a result of said interruptions) is not a problem.

The task system is basically built for people that cannot spend a lot of time per session, if you play around 2h / day and aren't a solo ae dot class you won't really be affected by the xp change as the new tokens basically make up the loss.


JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
3. Groups are much harder to get lately as the pop has fallen, making soloing a useful and (used to be) viable option.

Which is another reason why grouping was encouraged even more.


JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
4. Even in the best of times, groups (a) often discriminate against some classes, (b) sometimes suck, and (c) often fall apart w/o warning. A player should have the flexibility of switching to solo as circumstances vary, w/o suffering from a slowdown.

If soloing is pretty much the same as grouping there is practically no point in grouping for non supporter classes.



I don't think you can reasonably argue that there is anything at all wrong with an mmo encouraging grouping more than soloing and it's not like we made soloing impossible or worse than other servers or even worse than it was in january when we launched given the ~200% realm task bonus many mob types now have.
I prefer to group, but groups are rare and hard to come by with many classes. So what’s the reasoning to punish those that actually are actively looking for groups but getting no invites
Sat 30 Nov 2019 4:36 AM by LikeaBoss
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 4:01 AM
I prefer to group, but groups are rare and hard to come by with many classes. So what’s the reasoning to punish those that actually are actively looking for groups but getting no invites

Even after the changes, I was forced to level my Shadowblade from 1-35 100% solo. I periodically would post in the lfg channel "lfg xp, 47% ds bonus" and couldn't find a group. The lower levels are incredibly hard to get in an already established group or to start one. Now it's not so bad after 35 and I've had a few good melee groups since then but those first 12 hours of nothing but solo were rough.

I do believe that groups should be faster and more efficient than solo, but solo also should be a solid option when it's not possible to group for whatever reasons. I think though having already had a very efficient solo experience, most established players are looking at these changes and feeling a bit salty about it, myself included.
Sat 30 Nov 2019 6:12 AM by gotwqqd
LikeaBoss wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 4:36 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 4:01 AM
I prefer to group, but groups are rare and hard to come by with many classes. So what’s the reasoning to punish those that actually are actively looking for groups but getting no invites

Even after the changes, I was forced to level my Shadowblade from 1-35 100% solo. I periodically would post in the lfg channel "lfg xp, 47% ds bonus" and couldn't find a group. The lower levels are incredibly hard to get in an already established group or to start one. Now it's not so bad after 35 and I've had a few good melee groups since then but those first 12 hours of nothing but solo were rough.

I do believe that groups should be faster and more efficient than solo, but solo also should be a solid option when it's not possible to group for whatever reasons. I think though having already had a very efficient solo experience, most established players are looking at these changes and feeling a bit salty about it, myself included.
Well, then there was no reason for the change.
Because grouping before the change was very much faster than soloing. Was no need to run around changing mob types gathering and turning in collection items.
I just don’t see the reasoning fitting for the change. Unless they thought it would drive up group numbers, but my personal experience says it has not
Sat 30 Nov 2019 6:53 AM by JaggedOne
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:10 AM
JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
1. Some people prefer to solo...period

This is the target audience for the change, if soloing is less efficient many of these people will start to group as their main argument usually revolves around bad groups being worse than soloing, that's now rather difficult.


JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
2. Some people *have* to solo...for example, I am caretaker for my elderly mother and rarely can commit to the responsibilities of being in a group (which is why I am levling a Scout atm) but I *can* solo, where being called away or interrupted with no warning (yes, I have died more than a few times as a result of said interruptions) is not a problem.

The task system is basically built for people that cannot spend a lot of time per session, if you play around 2h / day and aren't a solo ae dot class you won't really be affected by the xp change as the new tokens basically make up the loss.


JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
3. Groups are much harder to get lately as the pop has fallen, making soloing a useful and (used to be) viable option.

Which is another reason why grouping was encouraged even more.


JaggedOne wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Nov 2019 2:03 AM
4. Even in the best of times, groups (a) often discriminate against some classes, (b) sometimes suck, and (c) often fall apart w/o warning. A player should have the flexibility of switching to solo as circumstances vary, w/o suffering from a slowdown.

If soloing is pretty much the same as grouping there is practically no point in grouping for non supporter classes.



I don't think you can reasonably argue that there is anything at all wrong with an mmo encouraging grouping more than soloing and it's not like we made soloing impossible or worse than other servers or even worse than it was in january when we launched given the ~200% realm task bonus many mob types now have.


gruenesschaf ,

One of the mottos I have lived by all my life is "I don't have to have my way, I just have to have my say".

I feel like I have been able to present my opinions here freely, and I feel like they have been heard. I appreciate first-hand interaction with the devs, esp. having been one myself in days of old, when the computers were squirrel-powered. I feel like you have stated your position clearly and completely. I still totally disagree with you, but I hold no animis in that disagreement. I leave this discussion satisfied that I had my say, and I thank you and wish you well.


Mac


P.S. Since I still have your attention, would you please fix two really stoopid bugs:

1. the one where you make blunt FFB arrows and get barbed, and vice versa.
3. the one where I cannot share Grandmaster Merchant and forge/alch table with my other toons, forcing me to buy one for each toon that wants to craft.

And yes, I updated both in the bug system yesterday, but I wanted to poke you one last time while I had you.
Sat 30 Nov 2019 10:48 AM by watbrif
It took me two late night gaming sessions (a 3 hours) and 1 1/2 hours of solo levelling (I think I took 4 bubs) to go from 44 to 50. Yes, those involved the usual animist/bomb groups, but there were also a good number of "unnecessary" chars for that setup involved (tanks/stealthers). Even if levelling is apparently now slower (and I'm one of the masochists who don't care, because I enjoy socialising in groups or roaming the land solo), this doesn't seem to be the doomsday scenario to me... (and I ended up with 22 collection tasks item which, I suppose, I can now spend on my other chars...)
Fri 6 Dec 2019 5:20 AM by Voso
We are extremely outnumbered during NA EAST prime time. Mids have 2 per every 1 hib tonight 12/05/19. I have seen most of my friends leave hib or quit all together because they feel helpless trying to defend the realm. I personally was avoiding RvR after the "BALANCE CHANGES" then came the nerf to DS/HOH which wasn't "re-balanced" to accommodate more diverse / lower RR groups for under 30 minute completions. I have spent way more time playing this game than I should because I realize how unique the casting mechanics, rvr progression, and the 3 realm balance is. With massive population differences you have to feel like you can make a difference in the realm. With increase HP and armor changes you can no longer sneak into a keep/tower without a FG (to have any impact on the defense) or roam around without debuff / disease /speed 6 and drop targets before someone runs off or gives up. This game is extremely frustrating in the current state of changes and the population is lower so you can't expect groups to be setup for 8 v X all the time. I'm feeling lost at the moment. I hate almost every change you have made in November except :

Boosting Class bonus XP
Sharing crafting on all characters

On live we were always able to take a random small group and put up some resistance in a keep/tower until:
a) more hibs arrived
b) we got pet spammed to death (only on this server)
c) we died.

Please remove the increased HP and armor changes.

Stop ignoring the actual problem and fix the debuff issue for tank complainers which felt they couldn't win against good caster groups because they were dying as they pushed in without interrupts... I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but on live Albs always had the best 8 man caster groups which could drop targets easily while making more errors than a hib caster/mid tank group. INCREASED HP on a caster does nothing when tanks (savage) can easily drop casters in 2-3 swings. They get DET, IP, Purge, to keep themselves alive and support to get them safely to the targets. Casters have a short window to drop the target or be killed. Only some kite well and most die to a decent tank group 50% of the time. I feel like you don't address the issues directly or test the changes to see what impact they have on the server. This causes people to become frustrated and leave. There ins't an abundant refreshment of new players joining up each month so eventually this server will be dead and I will be sad to see it go. Thank you for doing you're best, but I think you have been going in the wrong direction lately.
Fri 6 Dec 2019 2:21 PM by Gormenghast
"4) Increased customizability for procs
Existing procs will become replaceable, this will be for player crafted items only at first and may or may not be opened up for all items later on. At the same time we will also introduce some npc that will take the most expensive craftable proc together with any item that has a proc on it (not a charge) and in return you will receive the proc that this item had on it to apply it to any of your weapons or armor, please note that until (if ever) we make procs on non crafted items replaceable you will only be able to apply this proc to crafted armor / weapons.
This proc that you receive will become an offensive proc when applied to weapons, a reactive proc when applied to armor and proc for both cases when applied to a shield. Please note that both the most expensive craftable proc as well as the item you give to this npc will be destroyed.
Example:
You give the craftable epic heal proc as well as some rog weapon with a 95 delve lifedrain proc to the npc, these items are now destroyed but in return you receive a proc item with the 95 delve lifedrain proc that you can freely apply to one of your weapons or armor pieces. The same would also work for the epic dungeon chests to receive the higher heal proc."

Is this ever going to happen?
Fri 6 Dec 2019 2:23 PM by Uthred
Gormenghast wrote: ↑
Fri 6 Dec 2019 2:21 PM
"4) Increased customizability for procs
Is this ever going to happen?

This change will not come.
Fri 6 Dec 2019 4:28 PM by Gormenghast
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 6 Dec 2019 2:23 PM
Gormenghast wrote: ↑
Fri 6 Dec 2019 2:21 PM
"4) Increased customizability for procs
Is this ever going to happen?

This change will not come.


Mon 16 Dec 2019 10:38 AM by dearen75
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 6 Dec 2019 2:23 PM
Gormenghast wrote: ↑
Fri 6 Dec 2019 2:21 PM
"4) Increased customizability for procs
Is this ever going to happen?

This change will not come.

Never ever or are you just reconsidering it ? I'm asking because I'm crafting a new template and I wouldn't waste money/feathers in alchemy
Thank you
Mon 16 Dec 2019 12:07 PM by Uthred
Never ever.
Wed 18 Dec 2019 2:10 PM by Lipsi
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 16 Dec 2019 12:07 PM
Never ever.

Will it be considered to update the list of purchasable feather items/crafted epic items with all procs that can drop in Epic SI dungeons ? (atm just reactive mending ablative and retributive, and no volatile, whereas they can drop/should drop on each realm)
Thu 26 Dec 2019 8:03 PM by oldmanukko
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 6 Dec 2019 2:23 PM
Gormenghast wrote: ↑
Fri 6 Dec 2019 2:21 PM
"4) Increased customizability for procs
Is this ever going to happen?

This change will not come.

i'll admit the flexibility to "convert" a armor-to-weapon and weapon-to-armor proc did seemed a bit much (even though i thought it'd be really really fun). however, if a weapon proc stayed a weapon and an armor stayed armor, would the help make it more palatable? not having to farm so hard for the right kind of lifetap weapons would be nice. perhaps make the lifetap an alchy craftable?
Thu 26 Dec 2019 9:36 PM by Ibs
[/quote]

i'll admit the flexibility to "convert" a armor-to-weapon and weapon-to-armor proc did seemed a bit much (even though i thought it'd be really really fun). however, if a weapon proc stayed a weapon and an armor stayed armor, would the help make it more palatable? not having to farm so hard for the right kind of lifetap weapons would be nice. perhaps make the lifetap an alchy craftable?
[/quote]

Your first solution still leaves in the ability to put galla chest heal on all your armor, so I don't think they'll spring for that idea.

Your second idea is compelling. I wish they'd really consider either adding the rog value life tap as an alch proc as you said, or make it to where you can only break down rog lifetap weapons specifically. It gives a great qol for the realms who don't even have an option to buy mp lifetap rog *cough hib blades cough*
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