Champ debuffs - Phoenix Freeshard

Hey,

what is the reason why champ debuffs are nearly useless, compared to the debuff power on live?
At the Moment the real value of debuffing is like the Spells Value * 0,6.
It is a nice add on, but does every stat debuff work like this?

F.e.: Yellow D/Q debuff has a value of 58, which debuffs in reality only 36 dex.

This means going for red debuffs, has nearly no Impact compared to the yellow one

Red=73 --> 43ish debuff compared to 36.
I remember on live the debuffs were really strong, compared to here

Thu 4 Apr 2019 8:52 AM by dudis

IIRC, debuffs scale differently on buffed stats than on unbuffed stats. I did the math on this but that was like 12 years ago.

Scale is slightly above 1:1 for buffed stats and slightly below for unbuffed, if that makes any sense.

Ask a druid if you can try debuffing them in a duel.

Thu 4 Apr 2019 11:18 AM by relvinian

Champs are nasty with their debuff vs mobs. And necros

Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:09 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Muse wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:30 AM
Hey,

what is the reason why champ debuffs are nearly useless, compared to the debuff power on live?
At the Moment the real value of debuffing is like the Spells Value * 0,6.
It is a nice add on, but does every stat debuff work like this?

F.e.: Yellow D/Q debuff has a value of 58, which debuffs in reality only 36 dex.

This means going for red debuffs, has nearly no Impact compared to the yellow one

Red=73 --> 43ish debuff compared to 36.
I remember on live the debuffs were really strong, compared to here

What you remember from Live in regards to Champion debuffs was bugged for years and horribly over powered. A full set of debuffs on a buffed player on live would drop their stats well below there base unbuffed value. This was acknowledged as unintended and patched. Then, to attempt and make champs more group friendly, they altered the red spec debuffs to be AoE and tied group buffs attached to each one.

Champion debuffs are quite powerful here although I can't attest to the actual value or if it's scaling properly. But I can say with certainty that the champ debuffs from Live was bugged for years and never fixed until recently.

Fri 5 Apr 2019 2:36 PM by Cirath

When I am debuffed by a champ here my stats go below my base levels when running full pot and charge buffs. That is over 100 pts of str/con dex/qui decrease, plus atk speed debuff. Champ buffs are effing nasty. And the smart ones don't debuff you untill AFTER you are forced to purge slam.

Sat 6 Apr 2019 2:43 AM by hellcon

Regardless of the display screen value, the end result is that the debuffs are strong.

A debuffed friar with a 5.5 staff will style hit for the 130s. Might as well sit down at that point

Mon 8 Apr 2019 4:00 PM by BisbyHoughton

One could use a lot of words to describe champ debuffs here but I don't think useless is one of them.

Mon 8 Apr 2019 4:38 PM by opossum12

Muse wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Apr 2019 2:30 AM
Hey,

what is the reason why champ debuffs are nearly useless, compared to the debuff power on live?
At the Moment the real value of debuffing is like the Spells Value * 0,6.
It is a nice add on, but does every stat debuff work like this?

F.e.: Yellow D/Q debuff has a value of 58, which debuffs in reality only 36 dex.

This means going for red debuffs, has nearly no Impact compared to the yellow one

Red=73 --> 43ish debuff compared to 36.
I remember on live the debuffs were really strong, compared to here

Champ debuffs have their delve multiplied by 2.2 I think on fully buffed targets.

They are crazy strong in groups, saying the devuffs are useless is not true at all.

Thu 31 Oct 2019 7:59 AM by Razur Ur

On live server the debuffs can crit but why not on this server? Dual Threat is for Champion worst RA ever without crit debuffs and plz give champions endu chant!

Thu 31 Oct 2019 8:15 AM by

gruenesschaf

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Oct 2019 7:59 AM
On live server the debuffs can crit but why not on this server? Dual Threat is for Champion worst RA ever without crit debuffs and plz give champions endu chant!

Afaik they could only back then with moarcana not with dual threat.

Anyways, here is what the debuffs are supposed to be (and how it works here for everyone but champions)
http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?203558-Debuff-effectiveness-and-Champion-debuffs&p=3380980&viewfull=1#post3380980

Like many chars (e. g. friar, thane) champs got a buff here, in this particular case it's making their debuffs scale with target buffs aka the values they had on live that were declared buggy and later nerfed / fixed.

Thu 31 Oct 2019 8:22 AM by Razur Ur

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Oct 2019 8:15 AM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Oct 2019 7:59 AM
On live server the debuffs can crit but why not on this server? Dual Threat is for Champion worst RA ever without crit debuffs and plz give champions endu chant!

Afaik they could only back then with moarcana not with dual threat.

Anyways, here is what the debuffs are supposed to be (and how it works here for everyone but champions)
http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?203558-Debuff-effectiveness-and-Champion-debuffs&p=3380980&viewfull=1#post3380980

Like many chars (e. g. friar, thane) champs got a buff here, in this particular case it's making their debuffs scale with target buffs aka the values they had on live that were declared buggy and later nerfed / fixed.

I played very long Champion and Dual Threat worked be nice with crit stats debuff. that is the reason why i wondering that this not work on this server.

Thu 31 Oct 2019 8:32 AM by

gruenesschaf

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Oct 2019 8:22 AM
I played very long Champion and Dual Threat worked be nice with crit stats debuff. that is the reason why i wondering that this not work on this server.

Same as WP for the magic part: only works on damage. See also http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?99654-Dual-Threat-RA as an example of champions not speccing it.

Fri 1 Nov 2019 1:11 AM by Killaloth

Useless? Champ is the best solo melee class and it's super strong in smallman too. I see a huge difference when targets are debuffed. With a decent rank add WOC and you need a quick response support class to throw an insta if 2 are hitting on the same target.

I still remember how the reaver that usually roams in Stj group exploded under WOC+debuff+champ DD+BM flurry/triple wield/damage add. Down in 3 seconds.

Imho the Thane and Champ ST should be fixed to not reset stun timer at least when not in a group.

Sry about OT, the answer is: Champ debuff do make a big difference already and do not need a fix.

Sat 2 Nov 2019 11:35 AM by Razur Ur

Killaloth wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Nov 2019 1:11 AM
Useless? Champ is the best solo melee class and it's super strong in smallman too. I see a huge difference when targets are debuffed. With a decent rank add WOC and you need a quick response support class to throw an insta if 2 are hitting on the same target.

I still remember how the reaver that usually roams in Stj group exploded under WOC+debuff+champ DD+BM flurry/triple wield/damage add. Down in 3 seconds.

Imho the Thane and Champ ST should be fixed to not reset stun timer at least when not in a group.

Sry about OT, the answer is: Champ debuff do make a big difference already and do not need a fix.

i said dual thread is useless for champ and not the debuffs o_O

Sat 2 Nov 2019 6:41 PM by Killaloth

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Nov 2019 11:35 AM
Killaloth wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Nov 2019 1:11 AM
Useless? Champ is the best solo melee class and it's super strong in smallman too. I see a huge difference when targets are debuffed. With a decent rank add WOC and you need a quick response support class to throw an insta if 2 are hitting on the same target.

I still remember how the reaver that usually roams in Stj group exploded under WOC+debuff+champ DD+BM flurry/triple wield/damage add. Down in 3 seconds.

Imho the Thane and Champ ST should be fixed to not reset stun timer at least when not in a group.

Sry about OT, the answer is: Champ debuff do make a big difference already and do not need a fix.

i said dual thread is useless for champ and not the debuffs o_O

I didn't quote you, I was answering to the first post of this thread:

"what is the reason why champ debuffs are nearly useless, compared to the debuff power on live?"

Sat 2 Nov 2019 10:25 PM by Razur Ur

Killaloth wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Nov 2019 6:41 PM
I didn't quote you, I was answering to the first post of this thread:
"what is the reason why champ debuffs are nearly useless, compared to the debuff power on live?"

Oh sorry didnt read this :-/