Cave Shaman having problem getting groups

I have found the cave spec to be stunningly powerful and a hell of a lot of fun. In my guild many have a problem with that spec. For what ever reason THEY have a problem wanting this class for rvr groups. Is this a special situation or is the class viewed like this by most 50 level rvr players ? Currently I'm a 50 level cave...fairly new to rvr but loving the spec.
Can some educate me on ...things ?

Tue 29 Oct 2019 6:45 PM by chryso

Cave shaman is a good solo spec but it isn't really useful in a group. You have an aoe root that your AOE dot will negate. What else do you bring? A bolt on a 20 second timer, a dd on a 20 second timer (someone please explain why there is a timer on a dd). That is it. These can be nice on your own but how does it help a group?

Oh, and I have an up and coming cave shaman so I am not just hating. They are fun but look at it from the groups point of view. If you want buffs you will need a second shaman in the group.

Tue 29 Oct 2019 6:46 PM by Roto23

And his aoe roots give snare immunity

Tue 29 Oct 2019 7:26 PM by Runental

Not viable for 8 mans ofc, but if you join a small or large BG cave Shaman is very powerful for a grp especially in keep sieges.
Crit dots up to 150-180 dmg x 6 ticks will hurt every enemy zerg.
And with some decent RR you can pimp your low spec & base buffs to a playable value. Atleast better than pots 😉

Tue 29 Oct 2019 8:50 PM by Shadanwolf

Runental wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Oct 2019 7:26 PM
Not viable for 8 mans ofc, but if you join a small or large BG cave Shaman is very powerful for a grp especially in keep sieges.
Crit dots up to 150-180 dmg x 6 ticks will hurt every enemy zerg.
And with some decent RR you can pimp your low spec & base buffs to a playable value. Atleast better than pots 😉

Ruental.........I could not agree with you more. Personally I have not seen a more powerful offensive/defensive character. In keep and tower fights ....the dot's......the 50% cut in healing for several minutes are unsurpassed
Some have suggested I re-spec. Ain't going to happen.
Thanks for some final spec info.

Tue 29 Oct 2019 9:09 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Shadanwolf wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Oct 2019 8:50 PM
Some have suggested I re-spec. Ain't going to happen.

Then don't get all butthurt when people refuse to pick you up for RvR when you're specced for solo PvE.

Tue 29 Oct 2019 9:12 PM by Runental

Don't respec!
I play cave for 10 years now, and still it's fun to play.
And don't listen to pve arguments, they have no clue.
Shaman can beat mostly any class in daoc, but this will never happen on Phoenix.

Tue 29 Oct 2019 10:54 PM by Shadanwolf

Runental wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Oct 2019 9:12 PM
Don't respec!
I play cave for 10 years now, and still it's fun to play.
And don't listen to pve arguments, they have no clue.
Shaman can beat mostly any class in daoc, but this will never happen on Phoenix.

I've fought in keep fights solo...and watched as I lit up 4 players at once with a nasty dot.Hibs have a similar class mentalist whose forte is dot's..yet thy are in high demand.Don't tell me crack makes all the difference because I haven't seen them passing it out like candy all the time. Cave shaman are force multipliers.Their massive area spells....disease and dots are unmatched. Shaman can cast in a radius hitting multiple characters.

Tue 29 Oct 2019 11:02 PM by gotwqqd

Shadanwolf wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Oct 2019 10:54 PM
Runental wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Oct 2019 9:12 PM
Don't respec!
I play cave for 10 years now, and still it's fun to play.
And don't listen to pve arguments, they have no clue.
Shaman can beat mostly any class in daoc, but this will never happen on Phoenix.

I've fought in keep fights solo...and watched as I lit up 4 players at once with a nasty dot.Hibs have a similar class mentalist whose forte is dot's..yet thy are in high demand.Don't tell me crack makes all the difference because I haven't seen them passing it out like candy all the time. Cave shaman are force multipliers.Their massive area spells....disease and dots are unmatched. Shaman can cast in a radius hitting multiple characters.

Menty with aoe dot has hots and, though not spec, a FS wgich is not on a timer.

Wed 30 Oct 2019 1:55 AM by Shadanwolf

In life I have learned to follow my passion. I love my cave shaman. I will find a group to rvr with..or this game will gather dust.(sits in comfortable chair and resumes reading one of the two books on his latest reading list).

Wed 30 Oct 2019 2:38 AM by Freedomcall

Play what you want but there seems to be some misunderstanding.
Mentalists are in high demand in rvr cuz of demezz and light-line spec dd that has synergy with ench's heat debuff. No one takes mana spec ment on 8v8.

Ppl won't mind cave shammy on BG zerg grps, but don't forget you are still buffer. I've once seen a cave shammy that refuse to give buffs and it was just stupid.

Wed 30 Oct 2019 3:16 AM by Shadanwolf

Yes they can buff and rez and heal. I have yet to see many classes that have area spells that are just nasty,,,dots that kill and interrupt.....area disease that reduces healing by 50% for 3 minutes,,,dd's......chain....... and they don't look like a caster. How does a single target mele compete with such a force multiplier ?

Wed 30 Oct 2019 12:07 PM by Ele

I think you will be fine if you are searching actively as cave specc shaman. Just announcing the standard "shaman lfg" will in most of the cases lead to a group beeing really unhappy with your specc because they need specc buffs. The specc in itself is fine, as Runental pointed out, but oftentimes people expect something different.

A few things I want to point out:

Shadanwolf wrote: ,,,dots that kill and interrupt.....

Not entirely correct, the dot rupts when it hits, as ist he case with most casts. The ticks of the dot do not rupt.

Shadanwolf wrote: area disease that reduces healing by 50% for 3 minutes

This is correct for people running solo/smallmen. Supporters can cure disease, so you have to reapply disease frequently. And aoe disease a base line spell, so every shaman can do this. Yes, cave shamy has a higher pbaoe disease, but it has the same effect as the lowest, except for the resist rate and the duration (2/2.30/3). Most shamans have cave as a side specc, so an aug specc shamy has acces to the same spell, just a bit more difficult to apply.

Shadanwolf wrote: How does a single target mele compete with such a force multiplier ?

He doesn't. A melee is there to burst down a single target together with other dps classes. Cave shaman has no real burst dps but several aoes. Completely different role.
As I said, communicate that you are cave specc when searching for a group, but expect to not be picked instantly, as you play a niche spec which forces a group to run two shamans.

Mon 4 Nov 2019 10:57 PM by bigne88

If you dont play "competitive" 8v8 or small men, and you just love zergfest and solo farming you are gucci with cave spec.
Nobody gives a damn crap about cc, during zerg vs zerg.
Tough, if your guild form up for an 8v8 setup, you will be ignored for sure.
If I will ever do some zerg vs zerg I will be completly happy to have a cave shammy in party for max rp leech potential.

Tue 5 Nov 2019 8:56 PM by Valdarr

Like many other have said, Cave shaman are good in solo or small man.
In an 8 man you won't have time to use your dot and most of the time will not want to because 8 man are very reliant on chaining CC and killing targets one at a time.
So Aoe dot, ... you won't use it often (it's ok to clear thurg pets eventually if you don't have a caster in group)
8 man shaman will usually be 46 aug 27 cave (or 43/31) so they also have the instant pbae so being full cave spec shaman really doesn't add more except better damage on dots an Bolt and DD, ... but you don't group shaman for damage because if you want damage you group a dedicated DPS class like a mage or melee DPS.

Shaman in 8man groups are here to buff, interrupt (22 root or baseline aoe disease do fine even if it's resisted they are interrupted), apply disease and you don't need more than 27 cave for all of that, however you absolutely need high aug for good spec buffs and magic resist buffs (red fire resist is too good).
Now, keep in mind this is my experience as someone that played in an 8man on normal server I have NO IDEA about how the "meta" is on Phoenix.

On a side note you can try having an hybrid spec like 37 aug 39 Cave or 37/37/13 so you have yellow buffs and retain somewhat high cave for damage?
That way, you have the flexibility to play in pug or solo when you want.

Mon 18 Nov 2019 3:08 PM by Shadanwolf

My current answer...Play cave in Thid. All are welcome there. Having F U N is why I do this.

Mon 18 Nov 2019 4:31 PM by Lipsi

Spec buffs are a must to be competitive in RVR, especially a good yellow dq for casting faster and red acuity for more spell damages if you run with mages.

While hibs run usually with 2 druids, where one can be buff/heal (42/33) and other heal/nature (40/36 roots and dot), it is very unlikely to find a mid group willing to run with 2 shamans, just for the roots and dots.

For that reason, the higher cave spec to consider is 39, in order to keep a viable aug line, at 37 for the yellow dq.
Going higher in cave would remove most benefits of aug line versus simple potions, and shaman's mending isn't really an alternative

Thu 21 Nov 2019 9:05 AM by Runental

Soloing on Phoenix as a Shaman isn't worth anyway, atleast not open field.
Because here, the Shaman will get the most disadvantage of the full buff policity as well as other selfbuff classes.
The enemys have an advantage due full buff draughts while as real cave Shaman you run blue specs anyway, but you get nothing as compensation.
On other freeshards you had to spec 4 points in LW 2 for permasprint and always had to keep up your charges and pots.
So I rarely meet enemys who had everything up and deal full burst damage or can sprint all the time with 2 minutes endu reg potions.
As much as I like the buff QoL for my Alts, it's a big disadvantage for my Shaman tbh, but I have to deal with it.

Thu 21 Nov 2019 9:34 AM by Razur Ur

Cave spec is only for zerg/bg leech rvr nice and not more ;-/.

Thu 21 Nov 2019 9:47 AM by Runental

This indeed is true.
If you defend a keep and you permanently switch between the 4 Postern doors/roof/balkony, deal as much AoE as you can and eventually the aggressors will be wiped out, you'll get a bunch of participation RPs and feathers.