GVG Cleanfight - Trustbased command - Read before usage

The next update will include the next part of the GvG command as announced in the other thread already, please read carefully before using it as misuse will have severe consequences.

/gvg cleanfight <name of enemy group member>

This is a trust based command that is supposed to be used after a "clean" fight happened, the general definition of a clean fight would be a fight where one group was wiped out entirely without meaningful adds. The reward is for now 100 rps for each group member in both groups and will later be increased to make group fights competitive with keep fights / zerging in terms of the reward, even for pugs against set groups. Ideally we wouldn't give any reward at this stage until the command has been tested properly but having no incentive to use it whatsoever would likely lead to reduced usage as nobody cares to use it.

Some more pointers regarding clean fights, when in doubt don't use it and ask a staff member:
- fighting together against a third (adding) group would not constitute a clean fight, neither the wiping out of the third group nor the interrupted fight
- one group bailing out due to another group adding would not constitute a clean fight
- continuing to fight when another group adds and there are more than 3 players still alive in the other group would not constitute a clean fight
- adding solo players are the exact reason why this is a trust based command, if both groups agree it was a clean fight despite the add it's a clean fight
- one group just obviously feeding the other group without even trying to put up a fight does not constitute a clean fight. Just to be clear, being bad by for example failing to speed break, getting caught out early on a caster or just in general doing stupid things accidentally that cost you the fight would not be obvious feeding.

The first group to use this command will raise the claim which will notify the enemy group that such a claim has been made, the group leader of the other group then has to also enter this command (with the name of a member in the claiming group) to confirm the claim.
This is a trust based command due to the complications of automatically tracking and rewarding fights outside of controlled environments (like the instanced arena event).
There is damage / healing tracking in place and the usage of this command is logged allowing us to check on the command usage. As this is a trust based command, misuse will have severe consequences:
Given that 2 groups from different realms have to cooperate to misuse this command the general assumption is intentional misuse and the punishment is a complete rp reset for all characters that are part of both groups.

Sat 27 Jul 2019 7:20 PM by cuuchulain79

3 realms waging war in an open world, IMO was the great thing about DAoC. Having fun 1 on 1 fights, or 8 on 8 fights was part of that....but essentially it's like only having dessert without a main course. I think offering RP reward for winning or losing, a strict one dimensional playstyle goes against what made DAoC a great game.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea....but I think if you're going to walk away from the core of DAoC, don't try to squeeze it in alongside the 3 realms warring in an open world....make instance PvP arenas.

Essentially turning DAoC into a 8v8 eSport style PvP game, players will automatically avoid zergs, try and find secluded spots, and ofc obliterate any groups smaller than 8. So if that anti-social "tournament" setting is going to happen anyway, why not just take one baby-step further than the leap you already have, and have instance arenas?

"Refereeing" the RvR in the frontiers shouldn't be a thing....fixing exploits and bugs, yes....but having dmg and healing data, logging special pvp commands....this is not DAoC...threatening to effectively delete characters for using an incentive wrong....? It's really like you're promoting everything about an 8v8 arena, without offering the arena itself.

Sat 27 Jul 2019 7:42 PM by florin

I’ll likely never use it but A for effort.

Sat 27 Jul 2019 7:48 PM by

gruenesschaf

The existing incentives for casual players to participate in rvr heavily promote zerging in some form as the reward to just participate in rvr, especially keep fights, is greater than group fights for most groups. In terms of RP gain this basically makes it contra productive to seek out 8vs8 unless you are the dominating group of the evening which in turn makes fewer groups try 8v8 on a given day which makes it even not worth it for the dominating group, again that's in terms of rp gain / character progress.

This part of the gvg command is an attempt to make the 8vs8 playstyle worth it in terms of rp gain to be at least competitive with just joining the zerg and doing keep fights.
The goal is not that everyone starts doing it to the exclusion of all other playstyles but instead to get those who would prefer the 8vs8 playstyle but don't do it currently as, compared to just joining the zerg / keep fights, the rp gain especially for pugs and new groups is just not worth it.

While I'm sure some of the 8vs8 people would be fine with the arena or even prefer it, many don't due to the extra artificial feel (assuming the arena locations were "fixed" which was one of the major complaints especially for caster groups on small islands). This now just promotes / rewards an already existing and somewhat popular playstyle while making many of the informal rules sorrounding this playstyle official ones (at least when it comes to what is rewarded).

Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:42 PM by ExcretusMaximus

cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jul 2019 7:20 PM
I think offering RP reward for winning or losing, a strict one dimensional playstyle goes against what made DAoC a great game.

Remove all RP rewards for everything but killing a player then.

Everything; including keep takes, tower takes, tasks, turn-ins, all of it. Killing players is the absolute only way to ever get RPs. Period.

Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:53 PM by

gruenesschaf

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:42 PM
cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jul 2019 7:20 PM
I think offering RP reward for winning or losing, a strict one dimensional playstyle goes against what made DAoC a great game.

Remove all RP rewards for everything but killing a player then.

Everything; including keep takes, tower takes, tasks, turn-ins, all of it. Killing players is the absolute only way to ever get RPs. Period.

That would be the alternative / is the justification for why group fights now receive an rp incentive. However, we still believe that the existing incentives to participate in rvr and basically have some guaranteed progress is not a bad thing, which leaves adding similar incentives to things we want to encourage.

Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:59 PM by ExcretusMaximus

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:53 PM
That would be the alternative / is the justification for why group fights now receive an rp incentive. However, we still believe that the existing incentives to participate in rvr and basically have some guaranteed progress is not a bad thing, which leaves adding similar incentives to things we want to encourage.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear; I don't want that to actually happen, I was pointing out to the guy I quoted that if it's okay for keep takers, realm defenders, and PvE RP farmers to get bonus RPs, it should be okay for people who focus on 8v8.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 12:17 AM by gotwqqd

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:59 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:53 PM
That would be the alternative / is the justification for why group fights now receive an rp incentive. However, we still believe that the existing incentives to participate in rvr and basically have some guaranteed progress is not a bad thing, which leaves adding similar incentives to things we want to encourage.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear; I don't want that to actually happen, I was pointing out to the guy I quoted that if it's okay for keep takers, realm defenders, and PvE RP farmers to get bonus RPs, it should be okay for people who focus on 8v8.

Guess we’re crossing the Rubicon

Sun 28 Jul 2019 7:19 AM by Raunz

Full censor Raunz mode again. All tasks are bad terrible idea, you need to remove all tasks and change the rp formula so if you zerg you get almost no rps for it and there it is nomore #tasklife
If you think plebs will come do battle with 8vs8 people you are delusional, they don't want to feed nor are they capable of getting good enough in the old age to compete.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 4:02 PM by Taniquetil

Nice changes encouraging more variety of playstyle as always.

Possibility for a solo cleanfight reward too or solo respect reward? Ie not addding a straight 1v1?

Sun 28 Jul 2019 6:48 PM by Meandow

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jul 2019 5:13 PM
Given that 2 groups from different realms have to cooperate to misuse this command the general assumption is intentional misuse and the punishment is a complete rp reset for all characters that are part of both groups.

This scares me, some random pugger could be abusing it without you noticing. Honestly feel like the leader(s) should be held responsible, can remove the weeks RP gain for the rest of the group but all of it? Seems a bit excessive..

Sun 28 Jul 2019 7:06 PM by

gruenesschaf

Everyone in both groups is notified when a claim is made and accepted which means both groups would have to agree on it. The misuse consequence only happens when it's misused and not reported right away as an accident.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 7:16 PM by Aph

This sounds great

I will write some feedback later after testing. Thanks for having the 8man in your thoughts aswell.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 8:11 PM by Ceen

hm getting 100 RPs on the risk of losing them all, pretty easy call for me vote auto no^^

Sun 28 Jul 2019 9:12 PM by Meandow

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 7:06 PM
Everyone in both groups is notified when a claim is made and accepted which means both groups would have to agree on it. The misuse consequence only happens when it's misused and not reported right away as an accident.

Ye I understand that but it's a notification in the combat log I assume? Not everyone pays 100% attention to it. As I said, wouldn't it be enough punishment to get the leader and then the rest of the group gets Last Week RPs or something? Potentially 6 months worth of rps down the drain because of a random that you maybe never played with before. I'm sorry but it just doesn't make sense.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 9:14 PM by Meandow

Ceen wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 8:11 PM
hm getting 100 RPs on the risk of losing them all, pretty easy call for me vote auto no^^

Problem is when it's used unknowingly by someone you generally don't play with. You might be getting those 100 rps whether you want it or not.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 9:49 PM by keen

i also dont see why i would risk my char rps for 100 extra rp in pugs where i do not know the ppl.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:30 PM by gotwqqd

Soon this game is going to be nothing but instances as the devs cater to all the crying about the elitists wailing about their precious 8v8 or 1v1 fights being added/ruined

Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:55 PM by Moid

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 7:06 PM
Everyone in both groups is notified when a claim is made and accepted which means both groups would have to agree on it. The misuse consequence only happens when it's misused and not reported right away as an accident.

So someone who doesn’t visit this forum could agree to it not knowing WTF it is and get banned. Sounds like a really bad way to implement a feature.

Mon 29 Jul 2019 8:55 AM by Chaskha

I agree about the misuse danger.
Maybe this command should be like the claim used to be. The whole group has to agree and at least 4 people of the same guild must be in the group.
(let's admit plain PUGs will almost never claim a cleanfight).

The consequences of misuse is too harsh and implies the choice of one applied to 7 others. That's too risky.

Mon 29 Jul 2019 6:55 PM by Estat

I request an opt out option so i dont have to worry about the rules for this command.

Or rather make it an opt in where you have to flag yourself first before you get rewards and/or banned.

Tue 30 Jul 2019 10:05 PM by Ele

It has been a few days since the introduction of the new command and the people I regularly run with and myself are quite pleased with the effect of the new command.
In terms of rewarding an 8vs8 playstyle rp-wise, the command didn't change much. The 100 rps you gain from agreeing on a clean fight are neglectable. The biggest effect, maybe combined with the other gvg commands, is the sudden establishment of respect between groups, even between pugs of people pretty much unrecognized before (/wave Jacktheripper, good fights!). 8vs8 especially on EV, but also around the mazes near nGed and Eras feels really alive without turning the game into a pure arena. It was a great idea of you to implement this, Devs! <3

Wed 31 Jul 2019 2:06 AM by Isavyr

Ele wrote: ↑
Tue 30 Jul 2019 10:05 PM
It has been a few days since the introduction of the new command and the people I regularly run with and myself are quite pleased with the effect of the new command.
In terms of rewarding an 8vs8 playstyle rp-wise, the command didn't change much. The 100 rps you gain from agreeing on a clean fight are neglectable. The biggest effect, maybe combined with the other gvg commands, is the sudden establishment of respect between groups, even between pugs of people pretty much unrecognized before (/wave Jacktheripper, good fights!). 8vs8 especially on EV, but also around the mazes near nGed and Eras feels really alive without turning the game into a pure arena.

Thanks for the feedback.

Wed 31 Jul 2019 6:06 AM by

gruenesschaf

Ele wrote: ↑
Tue 30 Jul 2019 10:05 PM
It has been a few days since the introduction of the new command and the people I regularly run with and myself are quite pleased with the effect of the new command.
In terms of rewarding an 8vs8 playstyle rp-wise, the command didn't change much. The 100 rps you gain from agreeing on a clean fight are neglectable. The biggest effect, maybe combined with the other gvg commands, is the sudden establishment of respect between groups, even between pugs of people pretty much unrecognized before (/wave Jacktheripper, good fights!). 8vs8 especially on EV, but also around the mazes near nGed and Eras feels really alive without turning the game into a pure arena. It was a great idea of you to implement this, Devs! <3

The 100 rp are just now in the testing phase of how well such a trustbased thing works. The intended reward for now is 1000, leaving the winning team with a total of about 2600 and the losing team with at least 1000 (if they don't kill anything), again the intention is to make it competitive with keep fight zerg sticking for those that would prefer (to try) 8v8 but don't because without a set group it gives literally nothing making it quite difficult to find new people to actually try to get better at it when you know you could just join the zerg fights and get constant progress.

Sat 3 Aug 2019 10:02 AM by Pops999

Good luck with this. But all you have done is add more to your plate.

Sat 3 Aug 2019 12:10 PM by Adolith

Lux Aeterna likes the idea! 8v8 is our prefered playstyle, but we dont play a lot. Running around without inc, because all the 8 man groups are dispersed in different zones made for frustrating evenings in the past.

To get some RPs out of a lost fight means you can still make progress even on bad evenings.

On Uthgard our main problem was the huge RR disparity between us (rr3-4) to our enemies (rr8-9). The cleanfight RPs might help to catch up.

Sat 3 Aug 2019 12:27 PM by Aph

Could be an idea to have the concept with lower rr having higher rp rewards as a catch-up mechanism in this tool as well. Might be complicated to implement.. If the purpose of the tool is to create rp incentive for groups that feels forced into Zerging, I think it would enhance the tool to have this concept intwined.

That said I’m looking forward to the rp increase on my rr9

we are using the command extensively and it feels great for both sides to get acknowledged for a good fight.

Sun 4 Aug 2019 4:26 AM by Cadebrennus

Why bother with a command to give bonus RPs to roaming 8mans? They already farm smallman and solos as it is for their "bonus" RPs.

Mon 5 Aug 2019 4:06 PM by Killaloth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 4 Aug 2019 4:26 AM
Why bother with a command to give bonus RPs to roaming 8mans? They already farm smallman and solos as it is for their "bonus" RPs.

Solo and smallman will be farmed less if fgs are busy having fun in EV. Also when devs have some time also smallman will have their area in the 3 ruins zone with active ports between the 3 ruins zones, stay tuned

I like too the idea of rps incentives based on realm rank. Just a cherry on the cake once the gvg mechanism is fully tested.

Mon 5 Aug 2019 4:11 PM by Cadebrennus

Killaloth wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 4:06 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 4 Aug 2019 4:26 AM
Why bother with a command to give bonus RPs to roaming 8mans? They already farm smallman and solos as it is for their "bonus" RPs.

Solo and smallman will be farmed less if fgs are busy having fun in EV.

If you believe that then I have a bridge or two for sale in San Francisco if you're interested.

Mon 5 Aug 2019 4:47 PM by Killaloth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 4:11 PM
Killaloth wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 4:06 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 4 Aug 2019 4:26 AM
Why bother with a command to give bonus RPs to roaming 8mans? They already farm smallman and solos as it is for their "bonus" RPs.

Solo and smallman will be farmed less if fgs are busy having fun in EV.

If you believe that then I have a bridge or two for sale in San Francisco if you're interested.

Well at least some fgs will be in EV, if they are there then they can't be anywhere else. Perhaps poor groups will try to keep on farming soloer but poor groups can be killed easily by a decent smallman + some stealth adds.

Sometimes the issue is also that ppl don't want to regrp and try again and again to go out solo. I killed solo skalds again and again when in duo with a bard when it could have been easy to duo/trio with the other ppl at the keep.

OT but if you can't even be bothered to change port qsolo is not the best option and the stubborn soloers will keep getting farmed

Mon 5 Aug 2019 5:09 PM by Cadebrennus

Killaloth wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 4:47 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 4:11 PM
Killaloth wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 4:06 PM
Solo and smallman will be farmed less if fgs are busy having fun in EV.

If you believe that then I have a bridge or two for sale in San Francisco if you're interested.

Well at least some fgs will be in EV, if they are there then they can't be anywhere else. Perhaps poor groups will try to keep on farming soloer but poor groups can be killed easily by a decent smallman + some stealth adds.

Sometimes the issue is also that ppl don't want to regrp and try again and again to go out solo. I killed solo skalds again and again when in duo with a bard when it could have been easy to duo/trio with the other ppl at the keep.

OT but if you can't even be bothered to change port qsolo is not the best option and the stubborn soloers will keep getting farmed

Sadly this is true. On live classic I had to ditch the solo Merc and go with a stealther because Mythic wasn't doing anything about radar users. Adapt and overcome I guess

Thu 22 Aug 2019 12:13 PM by stripperrella

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:30 PM
Soon this game is going to be nothing but instances as the devs cater to all the crying about the elitists wailing about their precious 8v8 or 1v1 fights being added/ruined

i agree on this and gonna add also my opinion here:

havn't there been enough failed tests with 8v8 GVG on other freeshards? did it work out?! Yes.
How long?
Guys, if you havn't learn to play this game and deal with adds, perhaps it's time to.
If you kill the Fullgrp and manage also to kill the adds, that's the bonus. nothing more you should deserve in my point of view.
This is a nice and stable server, why can't you just enjoy it ?
I tell you what happen wth 8v8 GVG. it will die as soon as someone organize an unvincable 8 man grp.
I won't hit that zone once, grant you that. ( i am not even sure if i will hit 50 because of this unfriendly playstyle)

peace

Sat 24 Aug 2019 5:37 AM by

Uthred

Pls stay on topic and stop insulting each other. And Stripperella, you joined the game just 3 days ago and i already had to delete 4 posts. You should really calm down a bit. Thx.

Sat 24 Aug 2019 5:02 PM by stripperrella

Uthred wrote: ↑
Sat 24 Aug 2019 5:37 AM
Pls stay on topic and stop insulting each other. And Stripperella, you joined the game just 3 days ago and i already had to delete 4 posts. You should really calm down a bit. Thx.

Sincerly uthred. righty, i am here for 3 days.[edit] i've just found the posts you deleted. thanks for that.
i would like to know where i insulted someone other than defending myself against irrational answers. (private mail uthred)
However. i want to quit this forum by now if you havn't noticed.

Time to pop the champange.
Bye

Thu 5 Sep 2019 3:34 PM by Keelia

So how clean does the fight need to be? Like say we’re ina a 8v8 and a small man adds, the other group breaks off and allows us to clean up the trash, then we go back and re engage. To me I would say it was a clean fight as they allowed us to kill off the adds then get back to the 8v8. Now if they stayed on us and wiped us with the help of the adds I’d say no. I mean as long as both the groups agree is that enough or does it have to be a perfect scenario clean 8v8 only?

Mon 9 Sep 2019 3:02 PM by Razur Ur

We need not this Change only what we need is CL´s and Banelords vs crazy Caster Domination! The Melee DMG with 2h Champ is lower how the dmg from sorcerer with cast Lt moc! I done 180dmg on Sorcerer and he done with moc Cast 240 DMG on my Champ is this normal? My Champ is Temp and have all Caps Stats + RR5.

Tue 10 Sep 2019 2:41 PM by iamsaitam

It's only fair if soloers get the same opportunity on 1on1s.

Fri 13 Sep 2019 1:55 AM by gotwqqd

What’s the theory/thought behind the need for extra rp’s for this mechanic to be in place?

Fri 13 Sep 2019 2:25 AM by ExcretusMaximus

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Sep 2019 1:55 AM
What’s the theory/thought behind the need for extra rp’s for this mechanic to be in place?

What's the theory / thought process behind the need for extra RPs for the keep taking / defending mechanic to be in place?

Fri 13 Sep 2019 3:53 AM by gotwqqd

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Sep 2019 2:25 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Sep 2019 1:55 AM
What’s the theory/thought behind the need for extra rp’s for this mechanic to be in place?

What's the theory / thought process behind the need for extra RPs for the keep taking / defending mechanic to be in place?

And?
Those are there for any individual

I’m simply asking for the rational behind doling out EXTRA rp’s for 8v8 fights
Do they miss out on points that 16v16 or 10v8 have?

Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:22 PM by chryso

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Sep 2019 2:25 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Sep 2019 1:55 AM
What’s the theory/thought behind the need for extra rp’s for this mechanic to be in place?

What's the theory / thought process behind the need for extra RPs for the keep taking / defending mechanic to be in place?

It gets people out who might not have otherwise been in the frontier.
8v8 people are gonna 8v8.

Fri 13 Sep 2019 1:06 PM by ExcretusMaximus

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Sep 2019 3:53 AM
I’m simply asking for the rational behind doling out EXTRA rp’s for 8v8 fights

You missed the point.

They're there to incentivize a certain play style, just like keep attacking, keep defending, small man areas, and solo areas; there is no single playstyle that benefits more than others when it comes to rewards now, but before this was implemented there were.

Fri 13 Sep 2019 3:18 PM by Gaven

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Sep 2019 1:06 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Sep 2019 3:53 AM
I’m simply asking for the rational behind doling out EXTRA rp’s for 8v8 fights

You missed the point.

They're there to incentivize a certain play style, just like keep attacking, keep defending, small man areas, and solo areas; there is no single playstyle that benefits more than others when it comes to rewards now, but before this was implemented there were.

Not everything needs a carrot, specially not one as abusable as this. A cool 8v8 fight is a reward on itself. Dont over engineer stuff.

Mon 16 Sep 2019 8:06 AM by hyshash

This is a nice mechanic for grps that dont win to many fights or even loose most without killing a single enemy. Having a few fights an evening and finishing that evening with less then 10k/h rps isnt realy cool for anyone. These grps will somewhen stop to play because they dont get anything, with such an carrot even a lost fight is worth a few rps.
And its fun that some ppl here are defending a mechanic that rewards, in the worst scenario, pvdoor with rps while being against a mechanic that rewards actual pvp ... gg

Fri 20 Sep 2019 8:59 AM by Chaskha

I'm happy with 10k/h.
The only "bad" thing, is when you start to win more RPs inside the zerg than in doing 8v8. That's the only reason 8v8 need a boost.
So Zerg people continue to be in frontiers and be happy and have fun but 8v8 has an incentive to get out of the zerg whenever possible (that's 8v8 PUGs or semi guild / not the perfect fixed team)

Fri 20 Sep 2019 1:49 PM by chryso

Chaskha wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Sep 2019 8:59 AM
I'm happy with 10k/h.
The only "bad" thing, is when you start to win more RPs inside the zerg than in doing 8v8. That's the only reason 8v8 need a boost.
So Zerg people continue to be in frontiers and be happy and have fun but 8v8 has an incentive to get out of the zerg whenever possible (that's 8v8 PUGs or semi guild / not the perfect fixed team)

This is complete bullshit. You want to play a certain way but you think another way may result in more RPs per hour.
Sounds like you need to make a choice. You can either play the way you want that could possibly net a smaller RP total per hour or play the way that maximizes your RP per hour. You want any way that could possibly net more RPs than you get in your preferred play style to be removed.
This is complete childish bullshit. WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH, they might get more RPs than I do. They must be stopped!!!!

All of you who are crying for this need to go sodomize yourselves.

Fri 20 Sep 2019 2:29 PM by Ele

I'd like to give some additional feedback, since the commands are ingame now for quite a while.
The 1k rps for the /gvg cf command are a nice bonus, especially for the lower rr toons. The biggest impact however has the /gvg list command, at least for most of the peolple I tend to play with, simply due to the fact that you can see that there are enemies out in the frontiers who enjoy the same playstyle. By knowing via an ingame tool that there are 8vs8 groups out in some zones you are encouraged to go there and try to hunt them down (or dodge them if the group is too strong xD), even if it is a zergy zone. An additional effect is that most zones are used for 8vs8, not just EV, so this already grindy game gets less repetitive.
Conclusion: great command, good job Devs!

Fri 20 Sep 2019 3:38 PM by Azuell

Can we get a command similar to /gvg list for small man and solo? The solo and small man zones aren't working and this seems like a good solution. Make one for solos and one for groups of 2-5 (one total, not one for each group size) and maybe list the group size.

You don't even need to implement the clean fight command for us, although I would take it. The ability to find good fights is more important than the bonus to me at least.

Fri 20 Sep 2019 9:47 PM by gotwqqd

I want to play like I want!
I believe I should be able to sit in frontier portal tow @ level 1 and 24 hours later be level 50& RR5
I should get same color as others

Tue 24 Sep 2019 8:13 PM by Chaskha

chryso wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Sep 2019 1:49 PM
Chaskha wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Sep 2019 8:59 AM
I'm happy with 10k/h.
The only "bad" thing, is when you start to win more RPs inside the zerg than in doing 8v8. That's the only reason 8v8 need a boost.
So Zerg people continue to be in frontiers and be happy and have fun but 8v8 has an incentive to get out of the zerg whenever possible (that's 8v8 PUGs or semi guild / not the perfect fixed team)

This is complete bullshit. You want to play a certain way but you think another way may result in more RPs per hour.
Sounds like you need to make a choice. You can either play the way you want that could possibly net a smaller RP total per hour or play the way that maximizes your RP per hour. You want any way that could possibly net more RPs than you get in your preferred play style to be removed.
This is complete childish bullshit. WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH, they might get more RPs than I do. They must be stopped!!!!

All of you who are crying for this need to go sodomize yourselves.

First of all, sodomy is pretty pleasing (watch out if you want to go down that road and telling 2 sentences before that I am childish... lol)

Second, you completely misunderstood my point ... I don't want a nerf of the zerg. I'm just saying that historically 8v8 has always been the way to maximize RPs and if you get less RPs in a more challenging mode, what is the point ?

Hence this command is a commandable idea (in the end it's just an opinion ... no one's virtue will be harmed . . .)

Wed 25 Sep 2019 9:06 AM by Tritri

Chaskha wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Sep 2019 8:13 PM
Second, you completely misunderstood my point ... I don't want a nerf of the zerg. I'm just saying that historically 8v8 has always been the way to maximize RPs and if you get less RPs in a more challenging mode, what is the point ?

Well, you said it

I do 8v8 and smallman for the challenge, more precisely because I find the structure fights unchallenging and boring, couldn't care less about RP gain

But I understand that historically, people went for 8 man not for the 8v8 but for farming busses and get lots of RPs. 8v8 came later.

But the logic is still the same :
You want RP, go for what gives you the most RP
You want challenge, go for what you find most challenging

Thu 26 Sep 2019 8:53 AM by Chaskha

Tritri wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Sep 2019 9:06 AM
Chaskha wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Sep 2019 8:13 PM
Second, you completely misunderstood my point ... I don't want a nerf of the zerg. I'm just saying that historically 8v8 has always been the way to maximize RPs and if you get less RPs in a more challenging mode, what is the point ?
[...snip...]
But the logic is still the same :
You want RP, go for what gives you the most RP
You want challenge, go for what you find most challenging

Just saying logically, something more challenging should also be more rewarding. Therefore the command was good in that direction.
Otherwise, I agree with you, earning less RPs but playing the way you want shouldn't be the end of the world.

Thu 26 Sep 2019 9:34 AM by Razur Ur

GVG need nobody same with this pseudo Zone for 1vs1 and smallman groups. This GVG works one Day and next day is dominant 8vs8 group alone flagged.

Thu 26 Sep 2019 10:23 AM by Sepplord

Chaskha wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Sep 2019 8:53 AM
Tritri wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Sep 2019 9:06 AM
Chaskha wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Sep 2019 8:13 PM
Second, you completely misunderstood my point ... I don't want a nerf of the zerg. I'm just saying that historically 8v8 has always been the way to maximize RPs and if you get less RPs in a more challenging mode, what is the point ?
[...snip...]
But the logic is still the same :
You want RP, go for what gives you the most RP
You want challenge, go for what you find most challenging
Just saying logically, something more challenging should also be more rewarding. Therefore the command was good in that direction.
Otherwise, I agree with you, earning less RPs but playing the way you want shouldn't be the end of the world.

while i agree in general....is running around in an 8man really "the most challenging" gamestyle currently?
Getting shit done as a smallman is much harder and more challenging, and going solo is a much bigger challenge too

If we only look at equal fights like 1vs1 , 4vs4 or 8vs8, then yeah...8vs8 is probably the most challenging since it requires the most inter-player coordination. But then a 40 VS 40 should be even more challenging. So only looking at an equal fight doesn't lead to the conclusion that 8vs8 is the most challenging format.

And regarding what actually happens in the RvR-zones roaming with an 8man is not challenging or hard at all. Just my POV from someone who get's rolled by 8mans constantly when running with a team of 2-4others. Getting chased for 2zones and then beating a group almost twice your size is quite satisfying though...but the RP-rewards don't reflect on the challenge (yes, that's a brag...we finally did it once yesterday

)

Thu 26 Sep 2019 11:09 AM by Tritri

There is also one more thing that we didn't take into consideration which should be obivous

Wouldn't it be logical that the people earning the mostrealm points are the ones actually doing something for their realm dominance ?

Sat 19 Oct 2019 12:53 AM by Azuell

Azuell wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Sep 2019 3:38 PM
Can we get a command similar to /gvg list for small man and solo? The solo and small man zones aren't working and this seems like a good solution. Make one for solos and one for groups of 2-5 (one total, not one for each group size) and maybe list the group size.

You don't even need to implement the clean fight command for us, although I would take it. The ability to find good fights is more important than the bonus to me at least.

Bump. I don't really see a downside to this. I understand small mans probably aren't high on your priority list due to the small population with this play style but it doesn't seem like it would require much work since the framework is already in place for 8 mans. Throw us a bone please.

Thu 24 Oct 2019 5:20 PM by Leichensanni

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jul 2019 5:13 PM
... There is damage / healing tracking in place and the usage of this command is logged allowing us to check on the command usage. As this is a trust based command, misuse will have severe consequences, unless mistakes are immediately reported.......

Its a Joke. Just never happen.
As soon as the majority of the people notice, they can claim every Fight without any consequences for weeks it all goes dawn.

Sad for the people respecting this command. Clearly a disadvantage.
I see grps out doing 10k+ a evening just claiming against the rules.

Beginning was awsome. From one to another day several grps begun to respect 8v8's.

Thu 24 Oct 2019 9:27 PM by chewchew

Leichensanni wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Oct 2019 5:20 PM
Beginning was awsome. From one to another day several grps begun to respect 8v8's.

Hey, dont worry, just try to walk a mile in someone elses shoes. Daoc is still awesome with people respecting 8v8s. Even if its unusual and new for you -- just give it a try!

Fri 25 Oct 2019 6:24 AM by Sepplord

chewchew wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Oct 2019 9:27 PM
Leichensanni wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Oct 2019 5:20 PM
Beginning was awsome. From one to another day several grps begun to respect 8v8's.
Hey, dont worry, just try to walk a mile in someone elses shoes. Daoc is still awesome with people respecting 8v8s. Even if its unusual and new for you -- just give it a try!

You completely misunderstood what he was saying...he LIKED that there was more respecting of 8vs8s....
his complaint is that people fraudulently use the command for unclean fights to get more RP and the rule against abuse not being enforced properly

i was wondering why someone would upvote your comment, but then i saw that you did that yourself

Fri 25 Oct 2019 1:29 PM by Keelia

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Oct 2019 6:24 AM
chewchew wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Oct 2019 9:27 PM
Leichensanni wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Oct 2019 5:20 PM
Beginning was awsome. From one to another day several grps begun to respect 8v8's.
Hey, dont worry, just try to walk a mile in someone elses shoes. Daoc is still awesome with people respecting 8v8s. Even if its unusual and new for you -- just give it a try!

You completely misunderstood what he was saying...he LIKED that there was more respecting of 8vs8s....
his complaint is that people fraudulently use the command for unclean fights to get more RP and the rule against abuse not being enforced properly

i was wondering why someone would upvote your comment, but then i saw that you did that yourself

Since I’ve asked multiple times and have not received a response from a dev I feel that the word “clean” is open to interpretation. Clean to some may mean a perfect 8v8 where clean to another may be, we won you had adds I’ll clean fight all groups involved. There has been multiple times where we have had enemy adds, that have not effected the fight, and we’ll still clean fight it. In our eyes it was clean fight, even though you had adds on your side, we still won and deserve our points. Now on the flip side if we beat a group and we get friendly adds I won’t clean fight it because they lost and we had adds on our side. If it was reversed and we had friendly adds and still lost we’d accept that clean fight in a heart beat as they deserve it.

Thu 31 Oct 2019 6:36 AM by

gruenesschaf

It is intentionally left open a bit to interpretation, if some inconsequential add happens and both agree this add did not in any meaningful way affect the outcome of the fight nobody cares, that's one of the reasons why an automatic system wouldn't work unless it's a 100% completely add free fight. But I guess pretty much everyone would agree, that if one group is still complete and the other group has only 2 people left and then something adds and kills off those 2, that these adds didn't really change anything.

So far there have been some eyebrow raising usages and some obvious mistakes but for the most part it is all within reason. Just because nothing happened so far doesn't mean it isn't monitored, on the flip side it also doesn't mean that there haven't been cases where a wrong group is claimed and this wrong group accepts or that group A claims Group B and afterwards b initiates again against a which is also accepted. However, as long as these are evidently rare occurrences and not a pattern (e. g. the ratio of misuses/correct usages doesn't surpass some treshold), we don't really see the need to take action. Please note that this also doesn't meant that nobody is close to said treshold.

Clean examples like this are about 50% of the cases:

As long as both parties agree that it didn't really affect the fight these kind of things are also acceptable:

Fri 1 Nov 2019 11:17 PM by chewchew

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Oct 2019 6:24 AM
chewchew wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Oct 2019 9:27 PM
Leichensanni wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Oct 2019 5:20 PM
Beginning was awsome. From one to another day several grps begun to respect 8v8's.
Hey, dont worry, just try to walk a mile in someone elses shoes. Daoc is still awesome with people respecting 8v8s. Even if its unusual and new for you -- just give it a try!

You completely misunderstood what he was saying...he LIKED that there was more respecting of 8vs8s....
his complaint is that people fraudulently use the command for unclean fights to get more RP and the rule against abuse not being enforced properly

i was wondering why someone would upvote your comment, but then i saw that you did that yourself

You must be new to forums. But no problem, everyone has to start somewhere, so let me explain: forum posts consist of a message posted AND A PERSON POSTING the message ;-)
The thing with liking your own post is advanced forum wisdom. If you would like an insight into that, you would have to pay me some platins.

Sat 2 Nov 2019 2:51 PM by Adolith

Thanks for responding in detail Gruenesschaf. Sometimes the following happens to us, and I would be interested how you jugde this.

1. We fight against group B, 4 archers add the fight, group B wins but does not see the archers. Group B offers clean fight, we do not accept it because the fight does not satisfy clean fight rules. Later we have a real clean fight against group B and offer clean fight. This accepts the earlier clean fight offer. For which fight does the clean fight now count in your tracking? The first or the second fight?

2. Sometimes we receive a clean fight "out of the blue" by group C without fighting group C. Maybe group C has macros and used the wrong one after a fight, I dont know. Of course we dont accept the clean fight. Later we fight against group C and the same situation as in 1. ensues.

Maybe introduce a /gvg nocf command to decline a clean fight offer?

Wed 15 Jan 2020 12:48 AM by chryso

I would like to see this command removed from the game. It has lead to 8v8ers disengaging and killing adders while they will constantly add to other smallman and solo fights. I don't like seeing these <insertbadwordhere> rewarded for this behavior.

If we can't have it removed then perhaps it could be set to only be available in remote locations.

Alternately I would like to see smallmans have a command that would disallow GVG from working for 8v8ers if they have recently added on smallman fights.

Wed 15 Jan 2020 1:12 AM by Azrael

chryso wrote: I would like to see this command removed from the game. It has lead to 8v8ers disengaging and killing adders while they will constantly add to other smallman and solo fights. I don't like seeing these <insertbadwordhere> rewarded for this behavior.

This would probably only help in some rare cases where "newly" 8mans sign in for gvg list. 8mans who run every night know each other from names so they would disenage in most/all cases if they see adds.

chryso wrote: Alternately I would like to see smallmans have a command that would disallow GVG from working for 8v8ers if they have recently added on smallman fights.

Would perhaps agree on that if smallmans would finally sign in fairfight list which they don't do. I ran for about 2 weeks on a daily base in smallman for several hours and saw enemy groups only a few times I can count on one hand.

I love good fights, I do smallman, I do 8man but from my experience the behavior is the same. They could easily meet up in non crowded locations to get their fairfight but both won't because they want these additional easy rp's they getting from facerolling smaller/worse groups.

Wed 15 Jan 2020 6:46 AM by Forlornhope

chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Jan 2020 12:48 AM
I would like to see this command removed from the game. It has lead to 8v8ers disengaging and killing adders while they will constantly add to other smallman and solo fights. I don't like seeing these <insertbadwordhere> rewarded for this behavior.

If we can't have it removed then perhaps it could be set to only be available in remote locations.

Alternately I would like to see smallmans have a command that would disallow GVG from working for 8v8ers if they have recently added on smallman fights.

8mans do this crap anyway without this command, it has been and always will be the problem with the 8v8 community.

Wed 15 Jan 2020 9:39 AM by gotwqqd

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Jan 2020 6:46 AM
chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Jan 2020 12:48 AM
I would like to see this command removed from the game. It has lead to 8v8ers disengaging and killing adders while they will constantly add to other smallman and solo fights. I don't like seeing these <insertbadwordhere> rewarded for this behavior.

If we can't have it removed then perhaps it could be set to only be available in remote locations.

Alternately I would like to see smallmans have a command that would disallow GVG from working for 8v8ers if they have recently added on smallman fights.

8mans do this crap anyway without this command, it has been and always will be the problem with the 8v8 community.

This

Was one of the things I detested the most in daoc