Perforated Artery Bug + Pet vs Stealth + Vanish

1- PA sometimes doesn't perforate the bubble, happens more often on animists:
https://ibb.co/naKSae

2- Pet follow you until it uncovers even if vanished:
https://ibb.co/h6228z

3- If you vanish while snared, you are still snare and everyone (stealth and non-steralthers) uncover you

, atm is used by someone for double PA but imo it has more tactical purposes

*1- This is clearly a bug, and it sucks cause the hib casters stuns and kill u very quickly after that game fail

*2- Some players said it's not a bug for this client version, but characters like animist are impossible to inc if the mushrooms don't lose the target till you are dead.
I think that should be fair to make em lose the target imo.
*3- I removed it ftm, let's see in the future if it works better

Thu 2 Aug 2018 9:30 AM by Tristaluna

Edited, images added, all good =)

Thu 2 Aug 2018 10:34 AM by Thanos

HI,

indeed you should not be uncovered after Vanished, yet if a pet is on you before you stealth, it would be able to uncover you.

But with vanish, of course it should reset all aggro

Thu 2 Aug 2018 1:16 PM by Tristaluna

Thanos wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Aug 2018 10:34 AM
HI,

indeed you should not be uncovered after Vanished, yet if a pet is on you before you stealth, it would be able to uncover you.

But with vanish, of course it should reset all aggro

Even with normal stealth in my opinion, if it's not casting it should lose the target to follow

Thu 2 Aug 2018 1:28 PM by Tyton

Tristaluna wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Aug 2018 1:16 PM
Thanos wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Aug 2018 10:34 AM
HI,

indeed you should not be uncovered after Vanished, yet if a pet is on you before you stealth, it would be able to uncover you.

But with vanish, of course it should reset all aggro

Even with normal stealth in my opinion, if it's not casting it should lose the target to follow

I've had issues with this as well where the pet will find me long after I've stealthed, they were not casting or performing an ability. I believe I made a bug report of some kind.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 2:17 PM by Chia

1.) PA probably didn't fire right, maybe range or angle error. IIRC there isn't a message saying PA failed just one if you performed it successfully.

2 & 3.) These are old Realm abilities. You are confusing old vanish with new vanish. Old vanish was just available to infs and only made u instantly vanish --> https://web.archive.org/web/20030810130159/http://www.camelotherald.com:80/realmabilities/infiltrator.html

Whereas new vanish does a lot more like speed burst, clear dots, etc. But you also couldn't attack for 30secs after using it.
Also, if a pet is tracking you then stealth or vanish shouldn't stop it at 1.65. Matter of fact some pets could uncover you if set to agro --> https://forums.freddyshouse.com/threads/cheat-bug-or-working-as-intended.155688/

Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:07 PM by phixion

Thanos wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Aug 2018 10:34 AM
indeed you should not be uncovered after Vanished, yet if a pet is on you before you stealth, it would be able to uncover you.

Pretty sure pets should stop following once you stealth. Maybe it's working as it was at the targeted patch level, but lets fix that, eh?

Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:12 PM by Ceen

phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:07 PM
Thanos wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Aug 2018 10:34 AM
indeed you should not be uncovered after Vanished, yet if a pet is on you before you stealth, it would be able to uncover you.

Pretty sure pets should stop following once you stealth. Maybe it's working as it was at the targeted patch level, but lets fix that, eh?

Why fix working stuff? I play stealther and visual I like how it is.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:34 PM by phixion

Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:12 PM
Why fix working stuff? I play stealther and visual I like how it is.

Because things like this were later "fixed" or "changed" to a state which made more sense.

Why should a pet still have sight of someone that is stealthed?

Thu 16 Aug 2018 10:20 AM by Chaskha

phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:34 PM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:12 PM
Why fix working stuff? I play stealther and visual I like how it is.

Because things like this were later "fixed" or "changed" to a state which made more sense.
Why should a pet still have sight of someone that is stealthed?

SM Pet: Because they come from the underworld and can track heat
Caba: Because they are a ball of magic and can track your magic essence
Animal pet: Because the can track your smell/

I am just inventing, there can be plenty of reasons, the same kind of reasons that a fireball thrown at your ennemy will blast him for 600+ while totally going accross your friendly firby hero fighting the ennemy at contact.

However I agree that if an improvement could be added so that pets can still chase but without a 100% accuracy, it would add some balance.

For instance:
Once stealthed, the pet has a decreasing chance over time to follow + some distance check in the formula.
eg: chance_to_follow = (100 - stealth_value)/100 * ((1000 - distance(pet, target)) /1000) with stealth_value start at 20 and increasing to 100 over 8 ticks ?
No clue if that would not be hard to implement but in my head this is a good way to balance things and tweak once it's implemented.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 1:36 PM by phixion

Chaskha wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 10:20 AM
SM Pet: Because they come from the underworld and can track heat
Caba: Because they are a ball of magic and can track your magic essence
Animal pet: Because the can track your smell/

I am just inventing, there can be plenty of reasons, the same kind of reasons that a fireball thrown at your ennemy will blast him for 600+ while totally going accross your friendly firby hero fighting the ennemy at contact.

However I agree that if an improvement could be added so that pets can still chase but without a 100% accuracy, it would add some balance.

For instance:
Once stealthed, the pet has a decreasing chance over time to follow + some distance check in the formula.
eg: chance_to_follow = (100 - stealth_value)/100 * ((1000 - distance(pet, target)) /1000) with stealth_value start at 20 and increasing to 100 over 8 ticks ?
No clue if that would not be hard to implement but in my head this is a good way to balance things and tweak once it's implemented.

The fact that this was later "fixed" tells me all I need to know. Pets will chase a stealther until they stealth and the reset and run back to the owner, it's been that way for a very long time and it makes sense. Your proposal is convoluted and has never been a part of the stealth game, ever.

I can imagine a lot of people quitting stealthers if a player can just stick a pet on you and chase you forever and ever.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 3:29 PM by Leith

I love to play stealthers and personally I don't want it to be changed. It adds some kind of "balance" if you f*** it up, so you can't retry unlimited times.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 3:47 PM by phixion

Leith wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 3:29 PM
I love to play stealthers and personally I don't want it to be changed. It adds some kind of "balance" if you f*** it up, so you can't retry unlimited times.

You'd have to get far enough away from the caster to get out of combat to then be able to stealth, you'd also have to avoid all pet snares/stuns to get far enough away and out of combat. Even if you do manage to get away and restealth, there's no scenario where a solo caster, having just chased a stealther away, is going to stand there so that you can "retry" and PA them in the face.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 4:14 PM by daocgod

they already added a custom change where you can stealth and the person casting on you loses the cast. pets chasing stealthed targets was a part of the game in this patch. stealthers don't need nor deserve any qol.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 4:33 PM by phixion

daocgod wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 4:14 PM
they already added a custom change where you can stealth and the person casting on you loses the cast. pets chasing stealthed targets was a part of the game in this patch. stealthers don't need nor deserve any qol.

Lots of things were "a part of the game" at this patch level and have been changed, this argument holds no water.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 8:53 PM by Chaskha

phixion wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 1:36 PM
Chaskha wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 10:20 AM
...
For instance:
Once stealthed, the pet has a decreasing chance over time to follow + some distance check in the formula.
eg: chance_to_follow = (100 - stealth_value)/100 * ((1000 - distance(pet, target)) /1000) with stealth_value start at 20 and increasing to 100 over 8 ticks ?
No clue if that would not be hard to implement but in my head this is a good way to balance things and tweak once it's implemented.

The fact that this was later "fixed" tells me all I need to know. Pets will chase a stealther until they stealth and the reset and run back to the owner, it's been that way for a very long time and it makes sense. Your proposal is convoluted and has never been a part of the stealth game, ever.

I can imagine a lot of people quitting stealthers if a player can just stick a pet on you and chase you forever and ever.

If you would have read the formula, you would have seen that with this proposition, no pet would be able to track a stealther more than 8 ticks, possibly less.
But sure if you go with all you need to know & ... yuk a formula, that's convoluted, what am I hoping for ?

Thu 16 Aug 2018 8:56 PM by phixion

Chaskha wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 8:53 PM
If you would have read the formula, you would have seen that with this proposition, no pet would be able to track a stealther more than 8 ticks, possibly less.
But sure if you go with all you need to know & ... yuk a formula, that's convoluted, what am I hoping for ?

I did read your formula, as I said, it's convoluted and over complicates things. Just make it so that once stealthed the pet resets, it's not rocket science. /shrug

Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:06 PM by Chaskha

It means Pet loose aggro over 1000 distance and during 8 ticks got a chance to loose aggro because of stealthing (that's 8 increasing chances to loose the pet).
Honestly, I don't see how complicate it is and it would meet both worlds of the stealthers and the pet owners who actively use their pets to intimidate stealthers.
It ain't rocket science either.

I'm just thinking it is nice to try to come up with a solution instead of plain complaining and wanting an advantage for your favorite class.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:17 PM by Ganaka

The stealth classes have cause more non-stealthers to quit this game than stealthers. Thousands and thousands of players quit the game before the devs gave casters personal bladeturn, which happened after the game went live.

I love the stealth dynamic of most games, but the perma-stealth in DAOC is a bit absurd IMO. Someone can stay in stealth indefinitely without loosing Endurance, which implies that stealthing requires no effort? How do you counter a skill that requires no effort? Having pets that don't lose their target sounds fine to me if stealthing doesn't burn endurance.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:28 PM by phixion

Chaskha wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:06 PM
It means Pet loose aggro over 1000 distance and during 8 ticks got a chance to loose aggro because of stealthing (that's 8 increasing chances to loose the pet).
Honestly, I don't see how complicate it is and it would meet both worlds of the stealthers and the pet owners who actively use their pets to intimidate stealthers.
It ain't rocket science either.

I'm just thinking it is nice to try to come up with a solution instead of plain complaining and wanting an advantage for your favorite class.

You're simply inventing a fix for something that was already fixed on Live years ago. The fix on live was for pets to drop aggro and stop following upon stealth. What you are proposing introduces something that has never been in the game, a system which is specific to that situation, way over the top when there's already an easy solution.

I've been on both ends of this argument, I've played pet classes (solo and grouped) and stealthers. As a pet class, if I stick my pet on a stealther and they manage to get away and restealth, good for them! I've never felt cheated of RPs in that situation. If I wanted to keep them unstealthed I'd have to DoT them, or chase them and keep nuking them to stop them stealthing. If you nuke someone down low enough their movement speed will be hindered to the point the pet will catch them regardless and they won't be able to stealth.

And then there's snare nukes...

Ganaka wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:17 PM
The stealth classes have cause more non-stealthers to quit this game than stealthers. Thousands and thousands of players quit the game before the devs gave casters personal bladeturn, which happened after the game went live.

I love the stealth dynamic of most games, but the perma-stealth in DAOC is a bit absurd IMO. Someone can stay in stealth indefinitely without loosing Endurance, which implies that stealthing requires no effort? How do you counter a skill that requires no effort? Having pets that don't lose their target sounds fine to me if stealthing doesn't burn endurance.

Where on earth do you get the idea that Stealth should burn Endurance? Are you new to this game or something? I just... have no words.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:51 PM by Cadebrennus

phixion wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:28 PM
Chaskha wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:06 PM
It means Pet loose aggro over 1000 distance and during 8 ticks got a chance to loose aggro because of stealthing (that's 8 increasing chances to loose the pet).
Honestly, I don't see how complicate it is and it would meet both worlds of the stealthers and the pet owners who actively use their pets to intimidate stealthers.
It ain't rocket science either.

I'm just thinking it is nice to try to come up with a solution instead of plain complaining and wanting an advantage for your favorite class.

You're simply inventing a fix for something that was already fixed on Live years ago. The fix on live was for pets to drop aggro and stop following upon stealth. What you are proposing introduces something that has never been in the game, a system which is specific to that situation, way over the top when there's already an easy solution.

I've been on both ends of this argument, I've played pet classes (solo and grouped) and stealthers. As a pet class, if I stick my pet on a stealther and they manage to get away and restealth, good for them! I've never felt cheated of RPs in that situation. If I wanted to keep them unstealthed I'd have to DoT them, or chase them and keep nuking them to stop them stealthing. If you nuke someone down low enough their movement speed will be hindered to the point the pet will catch them regardless and they won't be able to stealth.

And then there's snare nukes...

Ganaka wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:17 PM
The stealth classes have cause more non-stealthers to quit this game than stealthers. Thousands and thousands of players quit the game before the devs gave casters personal bladeturn, which happened after the game went live.

I love the stealth dynamic of most games, but the perma-stealth in DAOC is a bit absurd IMO. Someone can stay in stealth indefinitely without loosing Endurance, which implies that stealthing requires no effort? How do you counter a skill that requires no effort? Having pets that don't lose their target sounds fine to me if stealthing doesn't burn endurance.

Where on earth do you get the idea that Stealth should burn Endurance? Are you new to this game or something? I just... have no words.

The "stealth burning endurance" thing is in ESO and honestly, it's a brilliant mechanic. It's probably the only thing I liked in ESO and I played a stealther in ESO and DAOC (I've played DAOC nearly from launch, and most of that as a stealther.)

The way that the stealth mechanic works is that you can regenerate endurance while standing still, stealthed or not. In ESO You burn endurance while MOVING in stealth, which makes it a resource management issue for the player. Resource management is one of the key strategies in pre-TOA DAOC yet stealth never got
looked at in a resource management context (not counting spec points, as this is a different mechanic.)

I think burning endurance while moving in stealth is a brilliant way to balance stealthers.

Regarding the pet issue, pets are simply controlled mobs. Mobs drop aggro when you stealth. Pets (a controlled mob) should drop aggro when you stealth. Period.

Fri 17 Aug 2018 8:32 AM by Chaskha

phixion wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:28 PM
You're simply inventing a fix for something that was already fixed on Live years ago. The fix on live was for pets to drop aggro and stop following upon stealth. What you are proposing introduces something that has never been in the game, a system which is specific to that situation, way over the top when there's already an easy solution.

Well yes I am inventing an alternative solution, that's the whole idea of this server. They do bold moves and try new things. They are not just a copy.
At this point, you want it as live, it's ok. It doesn't prove the idea is crap (it may well be tho, it's hard to know without trying).

Fri 17 Aug 2018 4:33 PM by Tristaluna

I did this post for report something that could be wrong (or not) to the devs.

But this is not a friends chat-line, you should talk about ESO and other games/mechanics somewhere else I think.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 3:46 PM by phixion

- mobs (and pets) stop chasing player that are stealthed and outside their detection range

Praise the lord!